Season 2 - Ep 18 - In the Paré Way - DragonFight and Seizure - The After Movie Diner Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes, that's right. It's the inevitably nonsensical, yet hopefully enjoyable
After Movie Diner Season two. Like all good sequels, in
season two, you can expect us to ramp up the action, explotives,
gratuitous mentions of James Spader's inner thigh, and of course
the gore. That's right, we're going to be rupturing ear lobes,

(00:37):
nastily prodding dangle viscera, pulling knee caps off, and splashing
about in the goofy bits. Oh ooh, I'm sorry, I
got carried away. Calm yourself, Leanna. If you enjoy the
show and have pursued the recommended treatment from your medical providers,
why not support the show on Patreon over p a

(01:01):
t r e o n dot com, forward slash Aftermovie Diner,
rate and review the show wherever podcasts are found, and
rating and reviewing as possible. Even a one star review
provides useful insights on exactly the sort of petty minded
and wretched individual who negatively reviews free entertainment they do

(01:22):
not need to be consuming. So, without further dribbling, please
put down your lenen merangues, silence your bowels, and rub
two nearby dogs together for the one the Only John Cross.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
All right, are you? Are you ready? So you all
good to go? I am going to go all right,
I'm gonna have one more.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Crisp Okay, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I just want a little salty salty, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
So they tell you can't have no more, get them in,
you know, then.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Get it in.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
That's what I say. Gary, I'm with you, all right,
are we gonna do this?

Speaker 3 (02:07):
I'm ready, man, I'm ready to go into the diner. Here.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Brother, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Okay, here we go.
Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of The
After Movie Diner. And as you can remember, one of
the things that we were trying to do was to
watch a movie from someone either an actor or a
director or someone like that who I really like but
I haven't seen yet, a movie I really should have

(02:29):
seen but I haven't seen. And then the other thing
we were doing was dipping into weird and wonderful vhs. Well,
we are now going to start a whole new series
that is sort of adjacent to that but also very
much connected to that, and that is a series of

(02:49):
films looking at the bizarre b movie and Gonzo independent
film career of mister Michael Perey, who is actor who
I like and have enjoyed since he gave us his
Eddie Wilson. But also we will be looking at VHS

(03:10):
weird oddities on VHS. The exciting thing is, ladies and gentlemen,
is that we are doing this in kahoots, kahoots. I'm
saying the word kahoots because that's what's happening here in
cahoots with one of the greatest podcasts of all time,
that is the Cinema Beef Podcast as part of the

(03:31):
Butcher Shop series of podcasts. And we are exceptionally, exceptionally thankful,
happy lucky, just infused with wonderful feelings to have not
only as a guest on the show, but someone who
we consider a brother from another mother. It is the

(03:55):
Bearded Brethren himself, the wonderful, the splendastic Gary Hill of
the Cinema Beef Podcast. Gary, Hello, sir.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Hello, sir.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
The keyword there is hoot, because I say the phils
we started with for this project that they're they're quite
the hoot, as they say in a I appreciate John
because he keeps it real with the beard. I shaved
mine opera for for vanity and for the fact that
I like to eat flapjacks on occasion. And you know,

(04:26):
syrup gets it the beard, y'all. It's a struggle, but
that is one.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Of the that is one of the beautiful things about
maintaining a beard is the syrup content of that beard. Really,
if you have a beard worthy of note, it should
be a beard that has a high syrup content. I,
for example, prior to us talking, have been consuming Giri

(04:51):
Delli or Jura Delli. I don't know how people say it,
but Giedelli or juror Delli squares that are white chocolate
with caramel in the middle of them. And I know
for a fact that some of my beard hairs no
doubt contain caramel. Which is where sort of where we
want to live, isn't it, Gary, isn't that the world

(05:12):
we want to live in?

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well, if you have a sweet tooth or you love
her in sweet tooth, you know think guy said to
go back for later on. See you know, I'm just
at the have a little taste of that beard, and
you know it's salty caramel goodness.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I listen, Gary, I see no bad in it?
Do you know what I mean? There's never been a
historical documentary or a true crime documentary made about someone
who had just slightly too much syrup in their beard.
That was never a thing.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
You know.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
It's like, hey, I went to a barbecue. You you
want to taste the ribs. It's just the forge of
my beard for once.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
In a while, and you know it, right, Just prove
that you love me to that level.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Come on now, now. I know that people might point
to facial hair being a distinguisher in the psychotic Charles
Mans and Adolf Hitler, uh for two examples, But I
say that no, Gary and I reclaim the facial hair
as a beacon of positivity in the world. Wouldn't you say, Gary?

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, you know we're not hipsters about either.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
We don't like to twirl our mustaches like Sniley Whiplash
from the cartoons and you know it did.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
No. I've seen I've seen some wild stuff and.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know, well we were we We terms make no
mistake that Gary Hill has seen some wild stuff. That
that's that's a fact right now.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
It usually involves whiskey and bad decisions. But I don't
do it.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
I don't drink whiskey anymore. So it's just bad. It's
just organic bad decisions.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, it's sober bad decisions and those are the worst guy.
But no, Gary, what I'm saying is, in general, wild
facial hair has been combined in some people's minds with evilness,
the devil having his little pointy goatee, Rasputin, the mad Monk.

(07:07):
You know, there are certain examples of facial head denoting insanity.
Also on TV. I don't know if you've noticed this guy,
but on TV there is a trend which most strikingly
happened in twenty four with Kifa Sutherland, But there is
a trend that, depending on how anguished you are as

(07:28):
a character, it is denoted by the length and patchiness
of your beard. And I think John Wick also continues
this trend.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Would you agree, Well, you need like a I think
to pull that off.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
John Witt does it okay, But you need like a
big old like like a tear in sweater with a
hole in it and like big big flupe sticking out it.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
You really pull out that patchy beard and the super
and craziness of it all.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
It's just but you know what I'm saying, Like as
a character becomes or anguished or depressed or unlike themselves
on TV shows like I remember twenty four, there's one
I think where his daughter doesn't want to speak to
him and he gets weaned off heroin or something like that,
and he grows a big beard because the beard denotes

(08:20):
laziness and anguish and struggle on TV. I mean, do
you know what I mean? Yeah, that cliche where the
TV where the beard look good? Superman, the fucking Hack
Snyder shitty Superman. How do I show that Superman is anguished? Well,
let's give Superman three days double. I mean, come on, now, come,

(08:41):
can we just talk about Hack Snyder being fucking terrible,
just just an awful human being because he went, well,
how do we show Superman a paragon of virtue? How
do we show that he's a little feeling a little
grumpy and depressed? Give him a beard?

Speaker 3 (08:59):
I mean, come on, now, you see you there's that
you got too much beard?

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Like in the the uh night Runner universe, when Garth
Man uscapes from prison, he is a full beard.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
He's and said, but you know what he.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
Gets that sue that he shaded down to a soul
patch and a mustache and then he's dascardly.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
And you know, at what.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Point, at what point does a band go from just
generally menacing to truly dostardly? At what point? Like is
it where is it where the sideburns break away from
the goat? Is that what it is like? Once you
make that, once you shave that like red sea ponting

(09:42):
between your sideburns and your bed, that's where you start
to encroach ondostedly. Is that what happens?

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yes, and then you shave it down. You know, I
go back even further back and go to kind of
Monte Crystal. Yeah, he was in prison. He was sad.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, pretty shared that ship up is like, you
know what, I'm gonna look handsome now what Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
So so wait, Harry, are you on the side of
I'm on the side of the beard. I think beards
denote self confidence, self worth, self happiness. I think beards
denote a comfort in one's own skin, a cozy, wonderful,
welcoming person. That's what I think beards denote. I'm trying

(10:27):
to trying to take back the evil connotation of the
beard and instead imbue the beard with a loving, warming,
empathetic feeling. Are you on the side of that guy?

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, And I see a lot more, you know, and
people that they that they keep it.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
And you know, you're more empathetic beards out there.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
You tame the empathetic beard. Yeah, you make yourself feel
good about it. You put with it with various oils
and treatments to it, you know, And it's.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
All the oil bills and treatments. Is that what it is?

Speaker 4 (11:02):
You see the depression beard. That's what was visiting from Stargates.
You know, Kurt Russell, his son actually kills himself with
his gun when he's sitting in bed while to kill himself.
He's not, you know, no kind of beard at all,
Like he's clean shaven. That's what makes that character unbelievable
because you know, I said that little other pressure will
require it a depression beard on thousand.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
But but also is there anything more sinister than the
few films in which James Spader, his co star in Stargate,
appeared with facial hair. When James Spader has facial hair,
it is categorically the most perverse facial hair that has
ever existed.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well, he needs the facial hair, you know, with with
with the Paisley shirt from The New Kids. He had
a beard, yea, and he would hears Rockets Paisley wardrobe
from The New Kids.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think that, you.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
Know, that ensemble would be a NonStop in the dash
of the depression beardness of our discussion.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, but there are some films I think slow Burn
and I think Keys to Tulsa, which are two, by
the way, of the worst James Spader films to have
ever been made in the history of James Spader films.
In both of those movies, he has a mustache soul
patch combo that is so perverse, I mean, beyond dastardly.

(12:31):
If there is a step beyond dastardly, that's where Spader's
mustache soul patch combo lives.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Does he walk with an ironic Kane though.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
No, he doesn't. He normally wears him. I think in
both those movies he sports a lot of greasy tracksuits.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Again, go back to the Garth Knight analogy there, right,
being the best evil you know, same actor with a
mustache and the soul patch yeah half you know, Yeah,
of course that guy wore like Saturday night fever slacks
and outfits and then he hit a walking cane h o,
for no reason, he could walk.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
He just had ironic cane.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Oh, he could walk. I've seen a lot of spinals, dude,
and this guy's a phony anyway. This guy can fucking walk.
That's all I'm saying. He doesn't need that cane at all. No,
you're right, guy, And isn't it funny? I just want
to point out that we had not only an evil

(13:31):
night Rider, which, by the way, can we just can
we just bask in the glow of the beauty of
that The idea that people were watching night Rider and going,
you know what we need from night Rider is even
more Hasslehoff? Is there a way that we can have
two Hasslehoffs in the same show? And thus the Evil

(13:55):
night Rider was born. But then Quantum Leap had an
Evil Leaper. However, the Evil Leaper was not Scott Backler
wearing a dastardly mustache. And I have to say that
quantumly missed the trick there, because I feel like the
Evil Leaper and Quantum Leap should have had a dastedly mustache.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
What say you, Gary, Yes, because it holds you on
his hold ensemble together, because you see the heart the half.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Has that level of arrogance where he can pull it off.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
He can pull it off.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
When he gives us like Goliath, which you've ever seen.
Knight writers, young young whipper snappers.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
This is this is a a truck and it has
all kids qualifications, But it is a semi truck that
Garth has created to destroy the person that his father
built it him literally built in his image, so he's
he's literally Jesus Christ. But but Garth Knight is so
angry by this that Kaine has to kill Abel for
the massive semi truck you know.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right, Well, it's the two sides of the Hasselhoff ego
back telling each other for dominance. That's what it is.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
And then later on three builds a Juggernaut and they
destroyed Kit, and then a street gang rebuilds him. To
Tina Turner's we don't need another hero. Now, what's more
eighties than that? Come out there is?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
The answer is none more eighties. If the if the
people who were putting the Evil night Rider back together
were also wearing pop socks and listening to the soundtrack
of Electric Boogloo Break into Electric Boogloo, then then yes,
that is the most eighties thing. While Van Dam you know,

(15:36):
urinates on a snake or something. But but talking about
great talking about sort of great battles, because we're talking
about battles and films and stuff. Were we talking about battles?
We were talking about battles right between the between the
evil and the good.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
If that we were getting to it for sure?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, oh no, we We were in that ballpark, Gary,
and I think we should stay there because I think
it's segues beautifully towards our subject tonight. So, as I
alluded to in my introduction, along, what the new path
of the Aftermovie Diner was going to be films starring
people that I really liked that I really should have
seen that I haven't seen yet and VHS Deep Dives.

(16:22):
This is what I started off thinking about doing. And
Gary came to me and he was like, brother, I
want to be on more shows, and I want you
to be on more of my shows, and I want
to talk about Michael Paray. And I was like, well,
I love Michael Paray ever since he gave us his
Eddie Wilson. Who didn't love Michael Paray? You know, we

(16:45):
all love Eddie and the cruises And if you don't
you're a bad person. I was like, I'm on board.
Let's do a Michael Paray series between the Diner and
cinema Beef.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
We're in the.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
Pay every night and everything had a mail like face
when I live Aways, Carry and Show don't get us all.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Are in the faraway Okay.

Speaker 5 (17:23):
It's a game that we have play when on.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
The space is Howing space.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I don't know how Man space, So I h Gary
and go where is no.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
There is a parayway. And then I said, well, look,
I've been on the diner. I've been doing these VHSDP dives,
so let's at least when we're on the diner, let's
let's also cover a vhsdep dive. So last time you
can remember Matt Perera and myself talking about Kurt Russell

(18:06):
and Soldier and Meredith Salinger in The Kiss that was
our two movies. Well, this time around, I threw down
one of the movies. Gary threw down the other movie.
And they have funny enough. Even though we thought they
might have something to do with each other because on
the VHS covers it featured chain mail and a giant axe,

(18:28):
they actually have absolutely nothing nothing to do with each
other at all, But Gary, what was the movie that
you brought to us tonight? And why is Michael Perey here?
We go?

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Well, Michael Perey is a thespian lap sorts, you know,
But this first one, this is kind of a cheat
because he's only in the film for like four minutes, right,
So so I did not know that going in. But
boy was I overjoyed by the end of this fucking
thing because it is fucking It goes off off the

(19:02):
rails like super fast, and I'm not disappointed.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think it starts off the rails. I think it
starts devoid of any rails. I think it starts as
some sort of primordial soup of madness and it just
sort of bubbles up and by the end of the
movie it's just about forming limbs and crawling its way
out of the ocean and growing lungs. But only just

(19:30):
That's how I feel.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
About Yeah, it takes it takes a little while to
get there, but you know, I think from in the
first twenty minutes, I'd say.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
What movie are we talking about, guys?

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Oh, we're talking about Dragon Flights in nineteen ninety, which
is I looked in there or eighty nine, depending on
where you look. I don't know what you hear, but
this it says my thing nineteen ninety on the IMDb,
So we'll go with that.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, and nineteen ninety I would go with that. Yes,
and uh.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
This film The Stars stars Robert Sedar as a man
who goes to go battle people much all of the
Running Man. Really, he's kind of like in The Running Man.
But you think, oh, this sounds like the Running Man.
You're just you're just turned off right away because you're

(20:21):
you're turned on. I'm turned on because there's nothing like
the Running Man because essentially said a guy like him
with another guy. And in our case, our are our
hero sorce who doesn't want to be a sword fight anywhere.
Once he reached that that that final level of bushido
or some ship and you have to fight to the
death in the desert.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Some kind of bushido or shit is exactly how I
felt about it. Yes, and then they're in the desert.
They're meant to be in Arizona, but I happen to
know for a fact that they were at Vasquez Rocks,
which is about an hour north of Los Angeles. It's
in California.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
It looks like it looks legit to be, you know,
they're with the canyons and stuff, and.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, having having lived out there and having traveled of
Arizona and California pretty extensively, it is so. Vasquez Rocks
is most famous for where Kirk fought the Gorn and
the episode of Star Trek, the famous episode of Star Trek,
but it's also well known for Bell and Ted's Bogus

(21:25):
Journey where the uh they kill the robot uses kill
Bell and Ted. That it is also famous for Blazing
Sandals was filmed there, and almost every single Star Trek
film has been shot there at some point. In the
Ten Commandments, Jane Sign and Bob strike Back, Jingle all
the Way, John Carter, Little Miss Sunshine, almost everyone of

(21:50):
any genre has filmed at Vasquez Rocks. Weirdly enough, though, Gary,
and here's something that just to prove that the Internet
is never one hundred percent accurate. Know what film that
Wikipedia does not list as having been filmed at Vasquez Rocks?

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Could you see dragon Fight?

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Dragon Fight? They don't list dragon Fight. But I'm here
to tell Wikipedia you're fucking wrung, and I'm here to
lay down the Dragon Fight Gautlet because i know because
I just watched it. The Dragon Fight was filmed at
Vasquez Rocks and you missed the Wikipedia need to amend
your data, Isn't that right? Gary?

Speaker 3 (22:30):
That's right, mate, You need to fix that shit because.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Dragonfight might be the most important film ever shot at
Vasquez Rocks.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
It is a magical film filled with actors magical.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Magical is most definitely the word yes.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
In a very layered George buck Flower in this.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Movie, best way did it? Best thing in the movie.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Why is he wearing so much clothes in the desert?
I have no idea. It's just you know, he's been drinking.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Gary, don't you don't put it behind the wheel of
a he's been drinking.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh yeah. He mentions that like seven times seven times.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
But you know what, it all pays off his death, Okay, because.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
He is He is ultimately the wise man who departs
the most important message, which is Gary, it is not
the hand that holds the sword, but the hand that
releases the sword.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Because of pure compassion. George buck Flower doing voice over.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I've been drinking, but I have to say, bug Flower,
he's really the star of this picture, is he not?

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Oh yeah, the great, wonderful George buck Flower with I'm
sure you've heard many times and this show, but if you're
new with this. George buck Flower is mostly known as
the bum from Back to the Fact of Future films,
but he has been in many many.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
He's He's in at least three John Coppenter films. At
least yes, three John Carpenter films. I think he's definitely
in They Live Right.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
And Escape, Escape from New York too, Escape.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
From New York.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
And there's a third one there somewhere. I just can't think.
I can't think. But no, George buck Flower. And once you,
once you know the name and.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Face of Monsignor George buck Flower, you will always henceforth
spot him. Is that all right?

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Carry because I'm wearing this so I must be the president.
You know?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
That is phenomenal. That is phenomenal. Another John Carpenter alum
in this movie. Another monsignor as well, Monsignor James Hung,
who again I think has is it? Does he have
the most IMDb credits? IMDb credits?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Is that? Is that?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
The thing? I know Eric Roberts has like seven hundred
and fifty films or something, But I think James Hang right,
So James Hung has four hundred and sixty three credits
as an actor, so let's just see what Eric Roberts has.
I think Eric Roberts beats him. What do you think, Gary?

(25:14):
Are you willing to put a bet on it?

Speaker 4 (25:17):
I would think so because Eric is working like as
dairy queen next week sometimes sholding a movie too.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Probably get out, So I'm sorry, right, So, James Hang,
I've heard him say at many a convention, and I
love James sout. Please, I'm not chilling on James song.
But I've heard him say that he has the Guinness
World Records for the most credits on IMDb. Not true.
His credits are four hundred and sixty one. Eric Roberts

(25:44):
currently stands at an actor credits of eight hundred and
forty five. Ladies and gentlemen, if you ever think that
you work hard, let me introduce to mister Eric Roberts,
the hardest working, hardest worker in the history of hardest workers?

(26:06):
Am I not wrong? Gary?

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, You're You're not wrong? And you know one of
his biggest newest roles.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
And I have been watching this religiously because he's on
there is Dancing with the Stars. Because he's really trying
to do his thing out there, and.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Dude, I am loving watching him on that show. I'm
so glad that you and I connect with the Dancing
with the Stars. I'm not one for reality TV. Anyone
listening to this right now is like, oh my god,
John has shit in the bed, joined the millennials and
suddenly he's watching fucking reality TV. What the fuck happened
to John? This is the man who hates reality TV. Okay,

(26:39):
look all right, Look I do. I hate ninety nine
point nine percent of Reality TV. But I have such
a soft spot for Dancing with the Stars. But I
have a soft spot for when they bring on Eric
Roberts or Reginald VEL Johnson, Like I want them to
fucking win, not that young, fit, healthy Listen, They're gonna

(27:02):
fucking succeed no matter what they do, because fucking look
at them, fucking Ladi da. I want to see Reginald L.
Johnson and Eric Roberts get a whole fucking new lease
of life and star in a buddy cop series called
Flagon and Wagon or something like. I would be all
over that ship. And I just think that I I

(27:23):
root for the underdog what Gary, But I love that
you and I. You and I clearly are either out
dancing with the stars fans or closet dancing with the
stars fans. Either way, I don't care. I love Dancing
with the Stars, but don't tell anyone.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
Well, much like original Bill Johnson and Eric Roberts, I'm
extremely happy to be here on the.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Diner talking about Dragonflight with user.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yes, yes, of course, I don't mean to digress. I
was just trying to no, no, no, I'm trying to
bomb with you on the whole Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
I agree. You know that they bring folks on there
that you just blocked to.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Mister T, mister T. And then we had your man
from a karate kid, Martin Cove. So I just feel
like they put those eighties icons every season just to
wrote me in.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Stevie Gutenberg was nice on there too.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
The Goutenbergs, the Gutenbergs, former former Diner guest Steve Gutenberg.
Could you believe that?

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Gary?

Speaker 2 (28:26):
I spoke to Steve Gutenberg, who can believe that? Ship?

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Come on, I met it, I've bet him in person,
and he seems like the type that would, you know,
give you some time.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
So he gave me some time, and I love that,
and I want to hear as we go through this series, Gary,
as we talked through these movies together, because everyone needs
to subscribe to not just the Aftermovie Diner, but also
the Butcher Shop Slash Cinema Beef podcast on any podcast app,
because we are going to be bouncing this paray tennis

(28:57):
ball back and forth between the two shows. Am I
not wrong?

Speaker 3 (29:01):
You were very correct on sir, Yes, so we are.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
And again when I say am I not wrong? Gary,
I think that that's confusing because I don't know whether
that's a double negative or not. It sounds like it
might be. But let's move on. So Dragon Fight, let's
just try and explain this. So it is said in
the future, right, and it is a future where corporations

(29:26):
have decided to fight what warriors live on television or something. Right,
I'm confused already.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
I'm confused too. They have cameras.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
But you know, you spend a lot of time with
these corporate stooges. Yeah, and it just seems like a
bunch of guys you get their chalis off by by
like betting each other's companies, right, just to see whose
guys gonna win.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
So can you can you explain something to me though, Right, So,
there is a televised murder competition, right that in this
futuristic America whatever that corporations televise a battle to the
death across the desert in Arizona between two warriors. Right,

(30:12):
and this is accepted, right, yes, Yet by the same
token in this movie, the corporate stooges who have been
betting both for and against their own company are worried
about the FEDS busting them. But this is a world

(30:32):
where we're meant to believe that they televise actual murder
and they're worried. Worried, mind you, that someone on a
corporate level might be making money on it. They're okay, Gary,
with televised murder, but if you bet on it, well

(30:53):
fuck you. We are coming for you and tearing down
your house. Is that what this movie is saying, Gary.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Well, yeah, they're saying that.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
And I gotta say the differ scene this is The
Running Man, is that the Running Man is established that
this is like the hottest show on TV and the
Department of Justice involved.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Right, I don't think anybody's involved, but both the.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Corporations, because Lily out on the streets trying to find
their warriors to wear.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, this doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make so
that the fundamental problem with this movie, so very quickly,
the plot is this. The plot is this, as we
are led to believe, But through Gary and I's discussion,
we will poke holes and even the thinnest of frameworks
that this movie hangs off. But this is the framework

(31:40):
that the movie is trying desperately to convince you of,
but I'm not convinced. It is that we are in
a corporate led future where, in order to the corporations
have got so big and have so much money that
the only way that they can assert dominance is by
hiring war is to juke it out on a televised

(32:04):
battle to the death in the desert type show. And
we have a situation where a journeyed American hero who
has fought in every single battle and won multiple times
over is forced into being one of these jewelers or

(32:24):
battlers on this weird televised corporate run show, and he's
realized is the only way to win the fight is
to not fight at all, And in the process of that,
his combatant played by Robert Zadar, decides well, if you're
not gonna fight, I'm gonna murder everyone I come across

(32:48):
until you find a reason to fight. And at a
certain point, Robertzadar kills a bunch of mothers, and our hero,
played by the actor Paul Koufos, he suddenly decides, okay,
I will finally fight you goes up against the d

(33:09):
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So that's the world
that the movie is trying to tell us exists. However,
as we already started to break down before I explain
the full plot is that we already have questions about
even that thinness of frameworks, don't we Gary, Because how
is it a corporately powerful, mass media run world where

(33:39):
everyone is still scared of the police, and everyone is
still worried that somehow that what they're doing is illegal
even though they are legally allowed to kill people on television.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Well, there's established rules in Dragonfight that we do not
read or hear about because they're written in Japanese on
some leaflet that Michael Perey with the most unattractive pony
yub've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
That ry I would use the word egregious egregious ponytail,
the most egregious ponytail, that's what That's what I would use.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
I mean it is erect to where if he had
sex backward, gave head backwards, he can use it to
stimulate the lady parts.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's this huge that's very erect.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Has anyone so I want anyone to write in who
has used them erect ponytail to pleasure the lady pots.
If that has ever happened to any of the people
listening tonight who have an erect ponytail. If if you
have ever pleasure of the lady pots with that ponytail,
please write to us on a post god to one

(34:46):
fifty aftermovie Dina Bloody Bloody Blah at hotmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Well, first of all, you have the dexterity to to
put your your body in reverse an aim as well
as the pleasure your your your lover, you know, male
or female or other with your.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Erect pony up. You know, I applaud you to begin
with okay, so you know it's just a yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
No, Perey is rocking, I would say, in an egregious ponytail.
Every time he when he was just face on, you
were like, okay, I can handle him. But then the
moment you saw a profile, it was so abhorrd to
me that I had problems, Gary, I had I had

(35:29):
mental problems.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
The moment where Michael Pray breaks the cardigal rule of
filming anything and stares at the camera to let you know,
this is this is the plot Dragon Fight, y'all.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, you know, yeah, no, it's It's funny because we're
talking about two movies on this show that both suffer
from the situation where in order to understand it you
have to have an old Wise character sit in a

(36:02):
chair and go, this is what is happening in this movie.
Both films that we're talking about tonight have that issue,
which is you only begin to understand them once an
old Wise character sits down and goes, so, this is
what is happening right now in this film. In case

(36:22):
all of you were fucking confused, and we know you're
confused because we have made no logical sense up until
this point.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Until you know that it all falls apart in the
did that same old Wise man just says, this is.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Gonna ruin us. Ye're gonna we're all gonna get the chair.
Whoever they say, you know, right.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, this is the thing. It's like I say, televised murder.
Absolutely fine, but wait, if I committed corporate what is
it when you bet both for and against your best interests?
I forget what I.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Have to called whatever instead of trading issue.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Wait, insider training, right exactly. So we find out that
we find out, by the way, very early on in
the movie that one of the corporate stooge haircuts on
one side, who I think are on the Zadar side,
that we find out that that corporate executive has both

(37:19):
has taken every single scrap of shareholder and corporate monies
from every single possible thing they could do, and have
have divided it fifty to fifty and voted on either
side of this battle. Right yeah, So he says that

(37:40):
it doesn't matter either way, like if Zadara kills the
American version of What's the Day? Like what's that Canadian
FuG rousetowser? I can't remember what his name is anyway,
but in this movie, I'm talking about Paul Koufos, who
is one Canadian in tuxedo wearing kung fu fighting motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
That that is that is his battle armor.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
That is you know, he sports when you first see him,
but maybe at first see him.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
We come out to desert to fight or not fight.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yes, he's wearing well first of all, the Sadars decked
out your full on armor, full chain mail, you know, headdress.
He's already a rock roll with this, with this, with
his battle. He comes out with the Canadian tuxedo with
like a chain mail sash. It's like there was useless
piece of cobbat patroversy in my life.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
We have, so we have this situation where the executive
admits that he doesn't care who wins. Right, he doesn't
care if Zadar wins, and he doesn't care if the
Paul Kusas wins. He doesn't give a fuck because he's
bet on both sides so he can't lose. In fact,
he's done it so that it literally doesn't matter. He

(38:58):
will only win the amount he'll win because he's gone
fifty to fifty on both sides, right, so it doesn't
matter who wins.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
But they may go mention that there's odds or not,
like if he's like five to one to lose or something, right.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
I guess you know, yeah, but I guess so. But
but but even without knowing that he makes a big
speech about how it doesn't matter who wins. Right, the
Paul kufas what's his character's.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Name, something really strange.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Oh, fou Fauchon, faucho So Fauchon shows up right flips Zadar, which,
by the way, Fauchon looks like a five point five
feet nothing, you know, mostly it's hair and bootlefts kind
of guy. And Robert's Dar, as we all know, is

(39:55):
a ten foot halt with a four foot wide chin.
There trying to make us believe that this little Canadian
tuxedo clad motherfucker can flip flip, mind you, Saddar over
his shoulder onto a battle axe. That's what they try
and convince us. Anyway, he does do that. He flips

(40:16):
Zadar onto a battle axe, and Zadara is dying. Right,
You would think that that executive who was just crowing
about the fact that it doesn't matter who wins or loses,
because I bet on the other side and I bet
on our own side and everything's good. He goes, don't worry,
I've got a contingency witch just hanging out. I'm just

(40:38):
going because it's not bad enough that we're meant to
believe that in a few decades we're going to be
watching Zadar chinned men fight it out on chain mail
in the middle of the desert like some kind of barbaric,
nonsensical gibberish. No, they want us to believe that a
Canadian tuxedo man be able to flip the darchin and

(41:01):
I I just don't. I'm not going with a gun now.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
When the ringer the witch was introduced, I started crying
just a little bit. When you fight out with this
person's intentions with stabbing the ground with knives. Was because Zadar,
who dies by the flip on the battle axe flip
is resurrected.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Jesus style, Hey, Zeus style.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Not not even like Conan where you do a whole ritual.
She she's doing this for a far to say, hey,
when his eyes opened.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
We didn't she paint a bunch of bullshit? Didn't she
do some of that pillow? What's that you and McGregor movie,
the pillow? Pillow? But what's that movie called pillow?

Speaker 3 (41:46):
No?

Speaker 2 (41:47):
What is it? The one way he's the way he's
riding on the back of an Asian check and they're like, oh,
how autistic that is, and he's got his cock out.
What's that movie?

Speaker 3 (41:57):
You know, the one?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I mean The Pillows I've lost.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I think I know what's talking about, the.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Pillow Book, the Pillow Book. It's the movie called the
Pillow Book. I'm not even gonna look it up, Gary,
I don't even want to know. So anyway, doesn't she
paint all over Robin Zada like in the Pillow Book?

Speaker 3 (42:18):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
I think she just does some chanting and stabing on
the ground again. And also he had little.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Red marks all over him.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
I thought, I don't recall, but I don't think so
because I think he did. Yeah, well, we'll go back
to that and split Harrison on that.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
But is not backing down on this one. Ladies and gems,
it's a fight. It's a dragon fight.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
It's more meaningful and Conan, Okay, okay, you know that
you have this this ringer in the desert to say, hey,
if my man gets killed in battle, we're gonna resurrective
and make it even more diabology.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
But I want to remind everybody. I want to remind
everybody at the corporate executive right bet on both sides
of this fight. You've got to believe that Zada was
the favorite to win, and therefore the fact that the
other dude won was going to make that executive a
ton of money. Yet, instead of the executive being like, dudes,

(43:21):
I just made out in the billions, I'm going to
go buy an island and live with co eds for
the rest of my life. I'm going to call it
Island of co Eds and we're going to go live there.
Instead of doing that, he gets all panicked. He instigates
the witch to fucket. There's witches. Now, it's not just
a future, Gary, there are witches. So wait a minute.

(43:45):
In the future, magic just exists. Sure it just it
just exists. It just we've we've Yeah, it doesn't. In
the future, magic exists because that's how the future works, Gary.
In the future, magic will exist. We just haven't discovered
enough magic yet. That's the problem.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Anyway, In the ripe year of nineteen ninety nine, which
is film is supposed to take a place, right, I
would like to believe if you put two swordsmen out
the desert, you know, one they didn't give a shit
and one just wants to murder everybody, that you would
need some kind of you know, up upward, magic magician
woman to to Uh.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Who expected that fucking fauci own was gonna be able
to flip zadah fucking three sixty into him into a
battle axe?

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Who expected?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Like that? Took me by surprise, Gary, I have to
say I was hoping that Zada would somehow just kill everybody,
because that's the movie I wanted.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
To watch, you know, in Dungeons and George buck Flower.
Though if you roll for dexterity you get a seventeen
or better. Uh, you can flip a Robert Sadar problem,
you know?

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Is that what it is? It's all that the roll
of the dice. Oh yeah, you gotta know when to
roll nowhere the hold anyway, Gary, I'll tell you this
right now. No when to run right, No where to
run anyway. No, So dragonfight, Let's go down to brass tacks.

(45:19):
So there has been a rich history pretty much since
the eighties. But there's been a rich history since the
eighties of stunt persons and stunt performers turned directors. One
of the ones that the Internet loves to talk about
is Action USA, where the also weirdly named John Stewart,

(45:43):
not the Daily show John Stuart, but the other John
Stuart spelt the other way. Stunt person turned director delivered
us a wonderful Gonzo b movie full of ridiculous cast stunts,
bear breasts and explosions in all the right ways. And
I think that when I was reviewing that movie Action USA,

(46:04):
I think I said we should just let stunt performers
at a certain point stop making movies. Well, Gary, how
prescient was I? How ahead of the cove was I
when I said that? Because now every single movie is
pretty much directed by a stunt performer.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yeah, it started with with Needham really need them, you know, directing.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Oh we are going back? I love it, how need Yeah,
let's bring it up. Let's let's go back there. Let's
go back to the Reynolds days to make an action film.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
Begin into the fastest of an action film. And who
would know fast the fastest the action film better than
a stunt coordinator or a fight coordinator, I mean we
One of the most epic films of of the era
of this era is of most eras is Stone Cold,
which is directed by Craig or Craig Craig Backsley or.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Craig Backsley, who cut his teeth on my favorite. We
were talking about eighties TV shows back earlier when we
were talking about night Rider and quantumly my favorite of
all time. So craigar Backsley cut his teeth on what
epic TV show the eighteen Oh, Gary, are you as

(47:22):
big a fan of the A Team as I am
a fan of the A Team?

Speaker 3 (47:26):
You know they can't shoot for ship with the charming
as fuck?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Oh yeah, they are charming as fuck, And they can
build anything out of one hundred and fifty cabbages, some
poster tubing, half a bit of metallurgy and hammer. I
don't know what I'm saying anymore, Gary, but I love it,
and I love every fucking goddamn minute of it.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
You just need a flatbed truck that you can build
a battle machine, right Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Oh? Every every week, the A Team throughout my entire
life served up a glorious cocoction of comedy, action and
drama that just I filled the soul. And there is
no other replacement that has ever bettered the A Team

(48:12):
in quality and content. And I know who they all
were behind the scenes, and I know all of the
problems with the show, but I unabashedly love it. And
will never ever decry it. The A Team rules, So yes,
craigar backs the excellent example of the stunt performer turned.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
Director and Templeton Peck, you know, aka the face Man.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
The face Man he got.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
More rass on a round card, but at the end
of the day he could work a rashet.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Like nobody's business, okay, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
He He was the king of the blagging your way
into somewhere, the coming up with a last minute story
that anybody else would just And I have to say, like,
it's funny, right, because when I think of my eighties upbringing, right,

(49:04):
I think of you know, Beverly Hills comp. I think
of Fletch, I think of the A Team, and I
think of the you know, and I also think of
like bugs, Bunny or whatever. But I think of I
think of characters that were always putting on wings and
talking their way into things. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (49:25):
You see, you see Hannibal Smith did that, right.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
But you know the coolest thing about a good old
face man templed him Peck, yeah, is that they knew
him as the face Man and templed him Peck. But
when he went to like a party or something with
some mad women around. He still used his name like
he's not on the run with the rest of them.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
He just didn't care.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
He didn't he didn't give a shit because he was
all about he was all about the Poon Tang.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
But see he was really he was secretly acquitted as
my as my my issue with the A team. He
just was hanging out with them to you know, blow
shit up.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Blow it up exactly. He was. He was the most
Tom Jones style playboy of the lot of them, most definitely,
but no, so we and then right up until John
Wick and Deadpool undoubtedly two of the most successful franchises
of the last decade. You cannot argue with that, and
both of them led, driven, directed by, and coordinated by

(50:22):
stunt performers. If you throw, for example, Spurrow's Rosatas into
the mix with the Fast and the Furious franchise, you
now have practically the three biggest money makers that Hollywood
has right now, all driven by, directed by, and led
by stunt persons. And that's I think incredible.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Did he start as a director though, because I just
watched Who's that's Rosatto's I just watched him.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
No, he started as a stunt performer. With PM Entertainment.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Because I just watched Class nineteen eighty nine Part two,
nineteen ninety nine Part two with the great Sasha Mitchell,
the ridiculous fucking movie. Yeah, and uh, he directs that,
so I assumed he directed first and became as the coordinator.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Oh okay, let me I'm on his page right now,
give me, give me just one second, let me go
go all the way back.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
That's a good call of Spiro though. By the way,
I'm just gonna throw it out.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
There, Sparrow is the man man. I mean, seriously, the
number of the number of things, franchises and things and
films we wouldn't have without him, And I mean he's
he's the I think of him as the Greg Nikotaro
of stunts, you know what I mean, Like, he's the guy.
He's the guy behind the camera that the people who
genuinely care about fucking movies knows about, right, And people

(51:39):
who don't care about movies don't know about Greg Nickotaro
and Spurro's resultas, but they should know about them, because
without either of them, Maniac Cop two would not be
the kick ass fucking movie that it is.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
I want to know the guy who that the genius
who came up with if you see, if this fucking
hillbilly straps a rocket to the back of Punty, I
fear they fly into space, That the masses will still
watch this fast and furious franchise.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Oh we are not only will we watch it, but
we are we are on board on a level that
you cannot believe. Yes, we are all about it. So
let me let me have a look. So Spiras's first
directorial movie was in nineteen ninety one with First Getaway.
So he casts my milady, Cynthia Rothrock in a film

(52:32):
with my least favorite Corey.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
However he is and Leo Rossi respectively.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
No, no, we listen. We love Leo Rossi and he knows
Lea Rossi from that's right, the bill Lustig movies, both
Maniac Cop two and Relentless. Because Leo Rossi is one
of the Larry Cohen bill Lustig stock players. They show
up at Lea Rossi. If you look up Leo Rossi,

(52:59):
He's been in a bunch of Larry Cohen movies, a
bunch of Bill Lusting movies, and even some Fred Williamson movies.
So it spreads onwards and outwards with the Leo Rossi love,
so I'm not one to decry the Rossi. I'm well
aware of the wonderful life of mister Leo Rossi. However,

(53:20):
just to take it back to Aman Spiras, his first
directorial movie was nineteen ninety one, his first stunt credit
is in nineteen eighty two, so he was a stunt
performer before he was a director.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Cool, real journey, real journeyman. I love the kind of thing,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
He well guess what we obviously we are the podcast
known for our love of the Spader. What was one
of Pharaoh Rosatis's earliest stunt work none other than tough tough,
with the Spader at his sexual peak, able to lay

(54:03):
just about anything with one flick of an eyelash. He
was glazed, bronzed and in tidy whities, and women were
slipping off their chairs the world over for James Spader anyway,
So hard, but no so this. So there's a lot

(54:24):
of stunt performers who have now taken to either second
unit directing or fully blown directing. And as I've pointed out,
other backbones of some of the most major franchises on
the planet making money for the Studios, which all the
more makes it so insulting that when the Oscars had

(54:46):
the chance to add a stunt oscar, they didn't, and instead,
just during the Oscars talked vaguely about stunt performers without
really actually naming any actual fucking stunt performers or even
acknowledging any actual fucking stunt performers. Because the Oscars sucks
balls and I fucking hate it. Why you had the chance,

(55:08):
you were creating new Oscars, and also it's made up
creating new Oscars. You had the chance. It was the
time you can literally tomorrow you could all just be like, yeah,
we're having an Oscar for Best Trousers, and everyone would
just have to fucking deal with it because you decided it.
So if you want to just decide to do a
stunt oscar, do a fucking stunt oscar. Because you're constantly

(55:32):
trying to tell us that fucking Steven Spielberg is able
to do all this shit that he puts on film, No,
it's the stunt performers that do it, and they should
get much kudos. So I wanted to use this episode
Gary because of this film being directed by a stunt
performer to sing the praises of stunt performers and let

(55:54):
them know that the real fans know what we're talking
about and know who they are, right.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Gary, Yeah, which is you know, at the end of
the day, you know this seeming filmed by a stunt coordinator,
I'm directed by him.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Uh, makes this film way better than.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
It deserves to be, because we get down to the marrow,
that down to the bad battle scenes in the way
that they're filmed, because there's obvious stuntman work in this movie.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, but in the way that's how I want it.
I like my stuntman, Gary, Uh, where you look at
it and you go, that's a stunt guy in a wig.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Yeah, he knew how to cut it out. Again, I'm
giving way too much credit, you know, especially you know
in the final battle wherever Zidar is not that he's
not that you know, Ambidextrius and I mean not even
for order, but if we're here, he's got the agile
on his feet to be doing all this footwork and
all these turn.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yes, I know what you mean. He's agile is a
good one.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
It's filled it away, you know. And I give credit
to Lloyd Coffin for this all day long.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
The scene where where Warring goes on nuclear he punches
punches his fist down to the cretan's throat. Yeah, you know,
that's that's cut so well with the budget. And that
final fight scene in this film especially is cut so
well because a stunt coordinator was at the helm and
he do what to keep, what to throw away? You know,
as far as making the actors look.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Good, I would I think that what I would So
what I've said in the past is and I've said before,
is that you know, we should just let stunt performers
make movies because whenever I've seen a movie made by
a stunt performer, it's always been enjoyable. Dragon Fight is
certainly enjoyable. I'm not going to I would never, I

(57:42):
would never fully want to shed all over Dragon Fight.
Dragonfight is fine. However, when I think of and it's interesting,
I brought up PM Entertainment and spur Resartist because Warren A. Stevens,
who directed Dragonfight, who were talking about the stunt performer
Warren at Evens did work with PM Entertainment as well.

(58:03):
And I think that it is no mistake that the
ones that Spiro worked on versus the one that Warren
worked on, the ones that Spiro worked on. Piment movies,
I mean, are the ones that people are talking about today,
because I feel that when I think of stunt person,

(58:23):
I think of someone who can do everything. It's it's fighting,
it's car stunts, it's being set on fire, it's doing
a high dive, it's doing whatever. But really there aren't
many stunt people like that, probably only a handful, like
ground Page in Australia and Sparrow in America. Most stunt
people specialize. Some are stunt fighters, some are stunt fallers,

(58:44):
some as do fire stunts, some do other stuff. And
so what I noticed was, I think I went into
this thinking that Warren A. Stevens Why is a stunt person,
So this is going to be filled with, you know,
helicopter explosions and had car stunts and whatever it was.
You know, I think when I look through his resume,

(59:06):
he's probably more of a fight stunt choreographer than he
is necessarily a stunt stunt meaning high falls and explosions
and all that stuff. Because I have to say that
this movie does get a little bit repetitive with the
sort of fist fights and they're sort of fist fights
that you kind of go, well, I'm not buying this

(59:28):
other than you're telling me to try and buy it,
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Well, yeah, they're all, you know, let's pick a fight
with this guy at a bar thing where they're I
guess looking for their man towards the beginning, and you
know that goes nowhere. And but yeah, the fist, the
cups and stuff, and you know the fight scenes in general,
you know where they don't have they don't have weapons. Yeah,
they're kind of weak, you know, but they it picks up,

(59:56):
you know, with certain things. And as mostly as it are,
I will say it this because Sadar it's just a madman.
Because when he finds out there's not going to be
a fight, he writes in blood after he kills a
motorcyclists in the desert, you know, he writes fight or.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Something like that. He's ready to go, because that's what
that's what Zada is like, just like, wait, no fight,
we gotta fight? What no fight? We will fight And
then he's just like fight, fight, fight, and he's sort
of you can see inside Zada him gearing himself up

(01:00:35):
to go full Zada and he goes full Zadar in
this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
He takes the murder, you know, like, uh, he takes it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah, yeah, he takes is a good way to put it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
There's a great impaling scene.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
I don't want to give it away, but Saddar is
gleefully impales somebody with this with this pole arm. And
there's a scene this film that I was rooting for
children to die, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Let me expe let me explain, okay, because.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
A bumbshell here tonight on the optimovie for children to die.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Explain not you know, the visual division of visualization of
Zadar dismembering a child, maybe some some bloody children's story
strong about I digress because he he comes upon this
this this camper with with a family, you know, And
there's a point where Zadar has killed the father and

(01:01:31):
he he goes and see and finds the little boy
and the little boy is pointing his toy gun and says.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Bang bang Now in my eyes.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
That little boy doesn't know Zadar and he was provoking
him because you get Zidar tunnel vision.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Like he wants to murder a child.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
He will, he would eat a child. But you know
what it doesn't happen, and I'm a little sadder because
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You know, I think I think they would go for
that Frankenstein scene, you know, with Frankenstein with a little
blonde girl. I think that's what they were trying to evoke.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Yeah, but Frankenstein Monster through the child into the lake
right now, I had.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
But then if the dark.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Pulled like some crazy like guerrilla press slam by a
child just tossed like tossed him into the sky like
like Fargo and Hercules, right, and you would be okay
with that as long as it been a child constellation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Yes, I'd be okay with that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
You know, Listen, I'm with you. I don't believe it,
like they're in the was it in? Yes, in the
next movie, we're gonna be talking about they kill a dog.
And in the movie. I watched last night President's Day
by the great Chris Lamartine out of Baltimore, Maryland, who
people will know from w n UF Halloween Special, but

(01:02:55):
who should really know one of his earlier movies, President's Day.
It's much better than w NUF Halloween Special, which you
know is cuting all with the idea and whatever. It's
done very well. And I applaud Chris La Martina because
I love him and Jimmy George whenever they write stuff together.
But President's Day much much, much, much much better movie, However, Gary,

(01:03:17):
I digress. The reason why I bring up President's Day
is because they also kill a dog in President's Day.
I've had enough of this dog killing in movies, like
it's okay that Michael Myers kills a dog. No kill
the child. Save the dog, kill the child, Gary, will
you jesus?

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
This is why Gordon from Friday thirteen to Part four
is the smartest character in any Friday thirteen film, right,
Because that dog jumped through the windows here from Jason.
It was never heard from again because was gone. It's like, man,
you's gonna hack up these white people. And Gordon said,
not this dog, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
But no, do you agree that we save the dog,
kill the child?

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
This with me, chart this with just just not on
screen because again the next film we do get a
dog death, but it is off screen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
You just see dog kind of hanging there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Well, no, I mean seeing it hang in there. Was
was was drastic enough in the movie that I watched
last night. President's Day by Chris la Martino and Jimmy
George starring the Great George Stover, which is one of
my favorite movies outside of his Dondola work, is President's Day.
In it, his lovely little dog gets gutted and it's

(01:04:32):
not wonderfully pleasant. And I just think, kill the baby
before you kill the dog, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
To toss him in out of space.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
All the pro lifers now are getting upset with me.
But anyway, Warren Stevens, what did I want to say
about Dragon Fight? I'm very familiar with stunt work and
stunt films and PM Entertainment and Fast and Furious and
John Wick and you know, Action USA and films like that,

(01:05:06):
and I always applaud them and will you know, support
them and think that they should get more recognition and
so on. And I think that Warren A. Stevens, you know,
considering a lot of his credits and some of the
films he worked on, because he tended to work on
he didn't work on kind of car or explosion stunt

(01:05:31):
heavy stuff. He worked more on the kind of rough
and tumble, roll around fight, you know, fall out a
window kind of stuff. And so it explains a little
bit about why why Dragonfight is what it is. I
think that I was expecting a little more. I think
that he did a decent enough job from a directorial

(01:05:51):
standpoint in terms of filming it and where to put
the camera and some nice shots and some other ideas
and things. I think that was fine. I loved Buck
Flower and I thought he was tremendous. I thought that
Michael Parrey's ponytail was almost vomitously offensive. But when he

(01:06:13):
was not shot in profile, I was enjoying the Michael
Parrey performance such as it was, because he was in
the movie for as you said, about four minutes, just
playing a corporate slime ball, and that was fine. It
was no Eddie Wilson, but it was it was fine.
It was It was an okay showing from Perey. I
think that robbers Dar threw his all into it, and

(01:06:36):
I think James Hung couldn't decide whether it was worth
taking the money because the producer thought he was Japanese
and not Chinese, yep or not. And I feel like
James I've never seen James Hung phone in a performance
until I watched Dragonfight, and then he just.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
Looked exhausted and to the point, to the point really
selling that appy angle to where they're gonna lose their shirts,
you know, financially after Michael Fraser, by the way, I've
forked all you guys over, he literally gets out swords
for all the board members, so they commit, Harry carry,
come on out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Well look, if that's your tradition, carry, I mean, it
seems stupid to us. But in these more broad minded times,
we should look at sepachu or whatever it's called. I
don't know the proper words, and I should probably learn.
I should actually I will stop and I will think
and I will learn. But anyway, you know, we may
say that mass suicide is wrong from a Western point

(01:07:39):
of view, but maybe in the East, in Japan, it
is perfectly normal that if you I don't know, don't
win a televised murder fest that you were putting on,
that you all have to commit, you know, mass suicide.
I think that's probably taken it a little harshly, and

(01:08:01):
maybe we should all just take a deep breath.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
What do you say, Gary, He doesn't even have Japanese features.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
It's like this, this is the man.

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
If you don't know the history of James Hong, you
really should, Yeah, because him and guys like Maco uh
Uh started like an actor's guild for Asian people. And
this is the reason why they're so respected. They have
jobs and stuff right from this thing that he created
probably like seventy years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
You know, James James Hong is the man. No one
is denying that James Hung is at a revolutionary icon.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
But here he is. Is this Japanese businessman.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Pay or something? I have no idea?

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Yeah, hold these swords like ready to kill kill, kill
themselves and you know, but he's not Japanese at all,
you know, it is It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
This is the thing is that as much so, he's
a duality that I battle with Gary, and I want
I want to present it to you and see what
you think. You know as I do about the wondrous
actor Michael Kain. We all know about Michael Kain, right,
You know who Michael Kaine is?

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
Oh yeah, definitely, yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
There are as people who have followed Michael Kain's career. No,
there are two types of Michael Kain. There is the
all Michael Kain. I've showed up. I'm going to act.
I like the script. I want to pay here. There
is the bloody fucking tits and I'm going to act
the shit out of it. There's that Michael Kain, and

(01:09:33):
then there's the like, I've showed up because I want
to buy a new garage extension to my house in
Los Angeles, and fuck all of yours. I'm not going
to act at all. I'm just here to pick up
a fucking check. And then I get conflicted because I go, well,
on one hand, I acknowledge the fact that he was
ballsy enough to say that he did Oliver Stone's the

(01:09:56):
hand for so that he could buy a garage on
his house. He admitted it, and I thought, well, that's ballsy.
It's nice to hear someone admit that they didn't ship
for money. But then on the other hand, you go
to yourself, right, but you didn't even act in the movie,
Like you didn't even bother to show up. You just

(01:10:17):
so on one hand, I like him because he's honest
about why he took a role, and on the other hand,
I go, right, but you didn't act. The thing I
love about James Hung He's almost always on the ball.
The only time I've seen him lackluster was sadly in
this movie. But I don't mean to diminish him any
because he's a legend.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Michael Kine when he overacts his special you know, like
the Paycheck movie, I go to the most is on
deadly ground. Yeah, towards where he goes to the point
of full he goes Caine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
He goes past the normal cane.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
He has like.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
Spray on hair that looks like oil. Yeah, the black Yeah,
he deals with oil. And yeah, I I picture Michael
Kaine sitting at a full screen of this and didn't
getting the emersigulls talking about fucking stay saving the world
or something. What the fuck is I? I could do
Kane right now, but what the fuck is this? You know,
just just what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I didn't sign up for none of this Steven Seagal
Save in the World bullshit. I signed up for a
Paycheck because I thought it was only going to be
watched in Taiwan. All right, I'm going home, and I'm
going home. I'm good to have five very large Scotscious
and then I'm going to go Bull's date in some

(01:11:38):
limehouse strumpet.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
So perfect. Sorry, it's so perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
I went full cane there, Gary, I'm sorry. That's fine.
I'm good. I went. I've never gone full Kane before.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
See I think Kane wan a vision question in that
movie too, That's why he was so mad about it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
I'm good, I'm good. Listen, I have to say, I'm so.
There's two things. First of all, I'm really glad I
watched Dragonfight. I'm glad that I live in a world
where something like Dragonfight exists. On the other hand, I'm
sorry it probably gets a low score from it gets
a low score from me because I think that, especially
coming from a stump performer, I would expect to see

(01:12:21):
more actual stunts. And while the fights were fine, they
were also very repetitive, and I didn't see much in
the way of you know, falling, crashing, exploding, or even
any kind of soul play that I could write home about.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Yeah, i'd say on your your YouTube channel rating, which
I've watched all those, by the way, so far.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Well we'll talk about that in a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Yeah, Well we'll give it a two and call it
a keeper. Okay, put it that way.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
You know, I love that, dude, I know exactly what
you mean. Listen, Oh Gary, that just that meant so
much to me because you're right. I'm doing this series,
and thank you for bringing up I'm doing this series
on YouTube everybody called the VHS Corner, in which all
the movies that I'm buying up for my video store

(01:13:15):
be kind movie vault here in New Milford, Connecticut, one
of the greatest towns in the states. Please come visit
New Milford, Connecticut. We would love to see you. I
have a little video store here and I've been buying
up lots of VHS, and invariably when I get a
big box of VHS, my two thoughts are, well, do
I already own the movie on Blu Ray? Because if

(01:13:36):
I already owned the movie on Blu Ray, as much
as it would be potentially valuable or whatever, I'm not
keeping that, you know, horror VHS. I'm going to sell it,
right because I already have the movie. If I just
keep the VHS, it's just taking up space. So but
then there are other movies that I come across, like
the ones that I'm covering on the VHS Corner, where

(01:13:57):
you kind of go, well, wait, I know that people
in this movie, or wait, I know the director of
this movie or whatever it is, But you go, how
is it that I've never heard about this movie until this,
because invariably, when you buy a box of twenty or
thirty or forty vhs, invariably some of it is filler, right,

(01:14:19):
And some of these filler movies are the ones that
I keep and I look at and I go, what
the hell is this? This is a movie with David
MGI and John Saxon in it, Like, what are you
talking about? That's insane?

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Like why?

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Why is no one you know, I've been in the
movie review podcasting online movie community for almost fifteen years
at this point, and for me to not know about
a movie that has John Saxon and David MGI in
it is pretty fucking rare. So when I come across
a movie that is exactly that called hell Master, you know,

(01:14:55):
I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna you know, think about it,
and so on and so forth. So I'm having fun
doing these videos, but it means a lot to me
that you said that, Gary, because that's exactly how I
feel about some of these films. They can be a
two star, but there's something about them that I just
don't want to let go. So you know that there

(01:15:15):
is whether it's in the case of hell Master, which
I just mentioned, which you can see on YouTube right now.
It's the ability to own the last film that David
Emgi from Dawn of the Dead performed in, and also
just another movie with John Saxony and other reasons to
warn that movie. But also it can come down to, yeah,

(01:15:40):
I'm not gonna necessarily whip Dragon Fight out at every opportunity,
but I wouldn't necessarily want to think of a world
where I couldn't watch Dragon Fight. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Oh, totally makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
So I'm with you, sir. I think it's a two star,
but it's a keeper because who doesn't want I mean
just Roberts. So so Warren A Stephens, I looked it up,
had worked with both Zada and Charles Napier before in
the Hell Comes to Frogtown sequel frog Town two, which

(01:16:21):
had both Saddar and Napier in it and and was
worked on by Warren A Stephens. So that's how they
all met, or certainly that was a movie that they
were all on together. However, I could not find a
film in which Paul Kufas start in that that had
anything to do with Warren A Stephens, So I guess

(01:16:42):
that he just came across Paul Kufas the normal way.
I imagine.

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
Yeah, they spent all the money on as Zidar's cham
May also the Game of Sash and you know, and
bab beget a hero, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Yeah, well what I what I found odd was that
Paul Kufas, who is the so called reluctant hero Faucion
in Dragon Fight, who people will know is doctor Stan
Simon in the cult B movie hit Chopping Mall and
whose last movie, as far as IMDb is concerned, is

(01:17:15):
a movie called Sometimes a Hero, which is funny Gary
because isn't that a line that he has in this movie?
Doesn't he talk about like sometimes a hero is the
guy who doesn't fight or some ship.

Speaker 4 (01:17:27):
Well that was buck Flower is a big, big moment
with for all the roses in this movie. You know,
he literally has a hold my beer moment in this movie.
And yeah, he gives the one pearl of wizard that
makes him want to fight. He said, Hell, you know,
a man's compassion as it builds on his ability to
put the sword down and blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah,

(01:17:50):
wait a second, I'm gonna have this last sip of
my beer and I'm gonna go die and it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Somewhere George Bugfire was the best thing in this movie though.

Speaker 4 (01:18:01):
Oh yes, he's hands down the best thing in the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Oh, can we talk about very quickly before we move
on to the next movie. Can we talk about very
quickly how they crow barred in and not even needed
completely pointless love moment where she was like, well, You've
got to learn how to be with someone again, and
then she just smoochy rouccies. This is Charles Napier. So

(01:18:26):
Charles Napier is the local ranger, right, he runs the
ranger station, and at a certain point, the executive businessman
who's running the Zada team for some reason, sends a
helicopter into the thing to kill all the rangers, I suppose,
so that Zada can continue on his killing spree, which

(01:18:47):
again asked the question that if this is televised, and
if it's okay to murder a bunch of rangers, why
does anyone care who is betting on this fucking business?
Because all law has gone out of the window, there
is no law. We are in a lawless society. If
it's okay to murder a bunch of rangers from a

(01:19:08):
helicopter on a TV show. Then I'm sorry, what side
you're betting on shouldn't fucking matter. That was one of
the weirdest things in this movie was everyone panicking that
the Feds were going to get them when they've been
televising murder anyway. Oh yeah, what was I was I

(01:19:31):
talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
Gary?

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
I'm sorry I lost it, dude, I lost her.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
The daughter character of Jordan brook Flower being the horned
and love interest, which were of the biggest mistakes of
a movie like that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
The daughter, yes, the daughter, so she was Charles Napier's
again this movie giving me extraneous information that I never
needed ever at any point. But Charles Napier had left
this random woman up the altar at their way because
he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
They keep bringing it up too, for no reason.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
There's a whole it's like a subplot within a subplot,
and you didn't even care about the plot, let alone
any of the supplot, like they seem to forget that.
I need to both a understand and be care about
the plot before you lay any kind of He and

(01:20:29):
her are sleeping together, but then he left her at
the altar and now she's macking out with that roused
ar in the fucking Arizona Desert while fucking Robins and
Dar's chin is growing by three feet. And there's a
fucking witch, a real life magic witch who can just
bring people back from the dead. This is a thing
that exists in the future. No one is questioning it.

(01:20:52):
What on earth is going on? Gary?

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
Well, he am here a woman that I guess didn't
touch him properly, so he left with the altar or something.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Or there, didn't go to the wedding.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
Who cares. It's like, it's like, it's like plot points.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
That work in films, Like I just watched down.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Periscope with a wonderful group of people in that movie.
It's it's, it's it's it's it's better than deserves to be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Is better than McHale's Navy with Bruce Campbell and French Stewart.

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
That's rough.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
It's rough, you know, as far as like picking one,
But there's a there's a plot line. And there where
ripped torn only wants Kelsey Grammar because he had a
tattoo of battleship on his dick or something. I forget
what the tattoo is of but he just set it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
Out the right of the film. I needed a guy
with a tattoo a dick, and you know what, you
were there.

Speaker 4 (01:21:46):
You were there for it because it's ripped torn and
Kelsey grammar. You know, they seemed like old hums.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
They seem like brandy buddies, right. It seemed like they
were coffee some kind of outrageously high alcohol contented brandy
in rich leather arm chairs in some sort of backward
CD club frequented only by the mega important, And there

(01:22:16):
they hatched up their delicious schemes.

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
You needed the point where the hero and Charles Dpier
are talking about what so, what happened with this woman
we keep talking about and he starts talking about loving
a woman that was unclean or some shit like that.
It just keeps going in and out, in and out,
in and out about this, that and the other.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
You needed that little story.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
It's it's like the Expendables too to worry.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
You know, Hey, let's go muchee, you choke noise, you've
got bit by a snake. What happened? Well? I three
days later the steak died or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
The joke is, right, Yeah, those jokes work because you
had that little thirty second conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
I mean, you know that, you know, I think the
best thing we can say about Dragonfight is that Robert
Zada never fails to bring his a game. I think
that's that's what we can say most about it is
that George bug Flower should have been given an honorary
Oscar Knighthood, Emmy. I mean, really, he should just be

(01:23:20):
a egot at this point. Just give bug Flower the
egot and the lifetime achievement whatever, just give him all
of the things, and then Robert Zadar should be heralded
as the greatest leading man of his generation because he
never fails. You know, the people talk a lot of

(01:23:41):
guff Gary about the likes of what's his name in
There will be Blood? What's his name, Daniel day Lewis.
People talk a lot of guff Gary about Daniel day Lewis. Right,
But when I watch like there will be Blood, I
just see a guy with a fake mustache on going.

(01:24:03):
I just see someone doing like a poor imitation of
a guy with a mustache. I don't believe it for
a second. I'm not buying it, Gary, I'm not buying it.
Daniel day Lewis is a fraud, and I'm not interested.
Whereas when I watch Robin Zada, I see true passion,
I see true madness, I see true meaning, and I

(01:24:25):
see a chin that can't be replicated by Greg nick
Tero or anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:24:29):
And now one thing it gives is are a major
A major up for is that every time he's in
a film, and no matter where he read two lines
or read a tagline, a poster or whatever, he knows
just what movie he's in. Oh, yes, in everything he's
ever done.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is a guy who brought
his a game to Samurai Cup, like brought his full
arsenal to a movie that was so legitimately ridiculous that, like,
just it was knowingly ridiculous. I love that movie. I'm

(01:25:09):
not shitting on that movie, but it is knowingly ridiculous.
It is not, it is not. Oh, we were trying
to make a serious movie and we made this really
goofy as shit movie. It is knowingly ridiculous. Yet Zada
showed up, straight faced and ponytailed, ready to goat beard
his way through that madness with the most delicious of

(01:25:31):
plom and and and Jois de v and Hutspa as
my people might say he did it all and more
and Dragon Fight is the better for it. Also, just
kudos in general to people like the James Hongs and
the Charles Napiers of the world for showing up when

(01:25:53):
they really don't need to. But it's kind of wonderful
that they do.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Oh for sure, I.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
Bring goofy stuff there and sometimes, like I tell folks
that three Ninjas knuckle up. The Third, the second sequel
in the Three Ninja series, has one of the greatest
exploitation cast that they didn't need to have of all time,
which includes Don Stark and Charles nap or shit like that,
you know, for no reason to be this movie about

(01:26:22):
kids who want to stay with Indian Indian reservation from
from from from from greed, corporate.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
Stooges and you know, uh yeah like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
But by the same token, it's like when you you know,
spot Tim Thomason in a cameo in a major A
movie and you suddenly go, wait, was that like Tim
Thomason or Robert Forster showing up in White House and
not white House? Down the other one Olympus has fallen
Like Robert Forster showing up in a mainstream movie and

(01:26:54):
you're just like I did just a moment. Then when
you know, you see Clinton Howard in a mainstream movie
and you're just, oh, there we go. There's the heart,
there's the warm little glow, there's the thing I was
looking for. Iron Man three, one of my favorites. They've
got William Sadler as the President. You've got Migwell Ferrer
as the evil guy. Like it's peppered with eighties and

(01:27:18):
nineties action treasures like the Migwell Ferres and the William
Saddler's of the World, and and it's it's just wonderful
when you see that as a as a film nerd
such as I and yourself, Gary, are we not a
little for klemped? We are, right?

Speaker 4 (01:27:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, because ye all the warm buzzies I
think watching I was watching Black Lightning for no reason
but for the fact that I saw Robert Townsend and
Bill Duke show up on that show. Yeah, I'm here
for it, you know. Yeah, gotta appreciate stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Well, Gary, I don't know if you know, but I've
I've been recently finding a worrying connection and I'm gonna
I'm gonna report on this as we go on throughout
the aftermovie diner shows. But I've been noticing with all
the B movies and VHS movies and various different two
B movies and things that I've been watching that when

(01:28:16):
I IMDb them and I'm looking up the actor or the
director or the musical performer, whatever it is, when I've
been looking them up, a lot of them can be
traced back to A I think it was a late
eighties nineties TV show that was we were talking about

(01:28:37):
the A Team earlier. Well, this was it was an
early nineties TV show called Silk Stalkings, which was created
by Stephen J. Knell, who created the A Team, And
it has been surprising to me again it's it's it's
called silk Stalkings. It's sort of a you know, we
were divorced and now where detectives together? Kind of decorating

(01:29:00):
kind of moonlighting type show, right, sort of a moon
lighting type show. Well, if you go through the cast
list and the cruelest of this thing, it reads like
a B movie cacophony of wander and amazement, Like there
are so many of my favorite people who have appeared

(01:29:21):
on the show Silk Stalkings, and it is by Stephen
Jakinal who made my favorite TV show of all time,
The A Team. So I can only assume that Silk
Stalkings is going to be my TV show of the Winter. Gary,
that's my recommendation, Silk Stalkings TV show of the Winter.

(01:29:42):
What do you what say you, sir?

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
I vaguely remember it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
It was on the USA Network, you know, with all
those other like Pacific Blue and the King of USA
Network shows swamp Thing, which.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Which Warren A. Stevens worked on.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I think so right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Didn't he work on swamp Thing?

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Possibly?

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
I mean it was it was good TV though, you know,
Dick de Rock was still swamping, you know, in those shows,
and yeah, that's that's one of my heroes I regret
never being able to meet was Dick de Rock because
he was he was swamping and no.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
Wait a minute, wait a minute, it wasn't. It wasn't.
Warren A. Stevens our leading man from Dragon Fight. None
other than Paul Koufoss was the character Brighton Kip in
one episode of TV series swamp Thing in nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
Nice working man.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Yeah yeah. Kufas would also show up in nine seven
six Dash Evil two.

Speaker 3 (01:30:46):
Underrated, underrated film.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
The sequel to the Smash Hit was the first one
to Smash Hit. I don't think anyone even remembers the
first one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
Oh I do, I do, I do too, but.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
I don't think anyone else does. And To Die to
Sleep was the other movie that he was in. Then
he was. The last time he worked was two thousand
and three. Sometimes a Hero. He has an upcoming film
apparently he is appearing in City of Shadows. Having not
acted in twenty one years, he is going to be

(01:31:19):
in City of Shadows. Apparently that is the wonderful Paul Kufas.

Speaker 4 (01:31:25):
Sometimes you got to dust off your chain mail sash
and go back to work again.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Yeah, well, he took a lot of time off to
have children.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
Okay, guyscha, I'm terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
I don't know that to be a fact, but I'm
saying it anyway. Well, I mean, once his name, Rick
Moranis gets a shit ton of credit for just saddling
up and teaching his children, looking after his kids and
everything in the wake of their tragedy. So why not
Paul Kufas. Oh ya, you know what I'm saying. Why
not pull Kufas with the we don't know what he was.

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Doing because those people are equal.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
Though by the way, Kufos in the Marino's not not
really because you don't, not.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
At all, even not even slightly. Yes, just just for
people who know that I'm such a PM entertainment head,
just to give people a little taste. Warren A. Stevens,
the director of A Dragon Fight, worked on the following
movies that we've that I either know like or have

(01:32:25):
covered on the Diner. So Blood Games, which was the
baseball themed sort of horror, sort of deliverance type drama
in the forest with an all female baseball team, as
you do kind of thing. He worked on Blood Games,
which you've covered previously on the show frog Down two,
which we talked about earlier. He worked on Firepower, which

(01:32:47):
is a Gary Daniels, Gary Daniels who is the British
shit kicker, the brick kicker, if you will, thank you
very much, thank you Gary Daniels. In Firepower, he worked
on No Escape, No Return cyber Tracker with my boy
Don the Dragon Wilson, plus a friend of mine, Gary
Don the Dragon Wilson and his brother James, not the

(01:33:08):
Dragon Wilson only because he's not a Dragon Anyway Ice.
He worked on Ice the Pim Entertainment movie.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
He worked on.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
The wonderful Jim Wanowski Munchie Strikes Back movie Come On Now.
He also worked with Albert Pien on Cydebog three, The Recycler.
He then worked back with PIM Entertainment with Steel Frontier.
He worked with the great Clint Howard, friend and found
of the diner Clint Howard on ice Cream Man. He

(01:33:40):
was the stunt performer on ice Cream Man. You're telling
me Clint Howard didn't do his own stunts, Come on now.
Clint Howard is a man's man, as we all know.
Stunting all over the place, is Clint Howard?

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:33:52):
Yeah, definitely stunt the old place over Howard, you know,
with the icy glare and the.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
Patche uh sculet going on.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
You know, well, what you were meant to say, Gary,
of course you were meant to say. The only thing
that's stunted about Clint Howard is his height. Listen, no
disrespect to the Howard. Clint Howard is the O G.
Howard brother in my buck.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Oh yeah, we're working real journeyman again. You know. Clint
Howard eagle Bauer himself and he does good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Yes, indeed. Okay, So we are going to take just
a little break and we will be back after the
break with the following film, that is Seizure from Oliver Stone. Gary,
I will meet you back here in a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:34:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
So, Gary, do you know what I was thinking about
while I was availing myself of further libations because I
needed some more water. Basically, there's one I'm saying. I'm
saying that in a fancy way, fancy way. Do you
know what I was thinking about? I was thinking about
the song Scenes from an Italian Restaurant by Billy Joel.
You know, we always talk about Sergeant Pepper or you know,

(01:35:12):
Electric Ladyland or whatever one's No one's talking about Scenes
of an Italian Restaurant. What an epic song that is.

Speaker 3 (01:35:21):
It's pretty good one, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
It's like three songs wedged into one song. Yeah, and
it's wonderful. And do you know why I'm thinking about it.
I'm thinking about it because the wonderful middle aged dad
jam band headed up by Ken Marino and David Wayne
of the State and Wet Hot American Summer and the
Ten and Wonderlus various other movies fame. They have this

(01:35:47):
great band, the middle Aged Dad jam Band, and my
good lady wife on our anniversary surprised me with tickets
to the middle Aged Dad Jam Band in New York
in December. So it all comes full circle. Gary and
I'm going to be rocking out to some seventies and

(01:36:10):
eighties pop and rock hits as performed by my favorite comedians.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
That's very cool. That's very cool, man.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
I'm very happy about it. So that's what I was
thinking about. Please ride in to Hello and aftermovie diner
dot com or aftermovie Diner at gmail dot com, or
call me up at three four seven six x nine
zero zero five to three, or go over to speak
pipe dot com. Do speak as what I'm doing right now,
pipe as in what your water flows through dot com

(01:36:41):
Speakpipe dot com forward slash aftermovie diner. Leave us a voicemail,
just tell us what do you think about the things
I was just talking about, like scenes from an Italian
restaurant and things like that. Just tell us, email us,
call us be a part of the conversation. Otherwise Gary
and I will not feel loved, will we, Gary.

Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Oh, I feel loved at all? No, I mean, I
love you I love you, Yeah, I love you back man.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
You know this, But we won't feel loved by the
masses if they don't write it and tell us what
they think about beards. Roberts da stuntman making movies and
the song scenes from an Italian Restaurant by Billiam, Joel.

Speaker 3 (01:37:31):
Billy and Joel. That's not sole legit man, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Okay, So we are now going way, way, way, way
way back to nineteen seventy four and Seizure, which is
the directorial debut of none other than mister Vietnam himself,
Oliver Stone. He wrote and directed this film that stars

(01:37:56):
some of the most middle aged seventies people to have
a middle age in the seventies. Am I right? Gary,
You're not wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
There's a lot of like, aged white people are getting
all together.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
You know, there's no did you just say a lot
of aged white people getting all together?

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:38:17):
There's nothing I like more, you know, like like this
and so films like uh what is it double times five?

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:38:24):
Well, you get very bunch of a bunch of Asian
white folks together for them to get murdered. And you
know this is what you want in the movie, right,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
Yes, and and one could say, I'm not I'm not
gonna go too further down this thing. But one could
say that the supposed villains yet maybe heroes in this
movie headed up by none other than the wonderful actor
performer Herve Villachez. Oh yeah, from what was the Riccardo Montebanche,

(01:38:57):
Fantasy Island, from Fantasy Island, and from The Man with
the Golden Gun most famously. But you could say that
they represent in some way minorities and or looked down
upon or downtrodden people because you have a woman, a
large black guy, and a dwarf.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
Yeah, yeah, you say that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
Yeah, I don't know whether that's the point in this movie.
I'm just saying, maybe I'm reading into it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
You have very privileged people who.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
Invite other privileged people to their home and and you
know they're being punished for some odd reason that you
have no idea what's going on. And it's yeah, yeah,
it's kind of like that, like the the the these
people against the establishment, if you will, do.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
You know I did. I don't think I knew this
about Old villageys, do you know? He argued with the
producers of the show in all ordered to earn as
much money as Montabond, but instead was fired and his
model actress wife left him.

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
The series continued without him, but stopped one year later
when the media response meter decreased because of the lack
of tattoos character. It's very, very sad that the producers
of that show would fire him and he would later
become alcoholic and depressed.

Speaker 3 (01:40:30):
All about Herve was that he was on the show.
You know, the plane, the plane.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
And then he carried a hammering quite quite the gun
ever where he went as a giant Herve Village has
dong which he used to you know, conquer the world
in a massive, massive gun.

Speaker 3 (01:40:51):
Wait what sorry what I heard you a big you?
I could be wrong about that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
You know what did you do?

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
Herve villagas carry around a giant gun or a giant penis?

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
I'm possibly bold by know the gun?

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
The gun was a.

Speaker 3 (01:41:07):
Thing with him.

Speaker 4 (01:41:07):
He carried a gun around with him quite quite up
and yeah, I guess he felt threatened.

Speaker 3 (01:41:14):
He didn't. He didn't have the powers of wing wing
after all, you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
Know, no, but wait he wait, he carried I'm sorry,
he carried around a large vibrator or like a large
dog or a gun.

Speaker 3 (01:41:28):
The actual and actual firearm. I believe.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
Yes, I'm gonna fact check this right now, like I'm
fucking Dolla Trump or something.

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
Continue those, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:41:39):
He also insisted on being referred to as a midget
rather than a dwarf, which annoyed his acting contemporary with
a similar condition, Billy Batti, who was an activist who
found that the term midget was derogatory. So you know,
it's it's it's I don't know that we need a

(01:42:01):
word for any other than just like, well they're shorter,
you know what I mean, just shorter people. They're just people,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Well, there's a point that there's a point in this
film where I forget, but the real, real rich fat
cat guy of the group says something about kick that
midget across the rumors something like that or something.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
Yeah, take somebody money to kick that midget across the room.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
Well there's so what's what's what's weird about this? So
I'm going to try and sum this movie up very quickly.
So uh Man who's been having nightmares is inviting a
group of friends around to his house. And when they
all get there and they're having dinner his the people

(01:42:48):
that he knows from his nightmares and is writing one
who is a dwarf a village as, one who's a
large black guy with a scar half his face, and
one who is a very bucksome woman. They show up
and start to put his guests through some tests that

(01:43:10):
are completely pointless, and then if they don't do them,
they get murdered, or they get murdered anyway, or they
get murdered for other reasons. And right at the beginning
of them showing up, she says, don't ask why we're here,
don't ask who we are, don't ask what we're doing,
don't ask whatever. And I'm like, well, this is a
great screenwriter away to get out of explaining any of
this mad, hallucinogenically fueled bullshit that we're watching right now.

(01:43:36):
And then yeah, but what's weird is all the people
who show up to the party. Almost all of them
are horrible people, like just terrible people, vain people, lustful people,
greedy people, shitty people, And so I suddenly started to think, wow,
this is sort of At one point, one of the
characters makes reference to Faust because I suppose you could

(01:43:59):
see our leading character Edmund Blackstone played by Jonathan Frid
could be a sort of Faustian character, but really it
also dabbles with the Seven Deadly Sins, and you know,
especially the rich guy trying to buy his way out
of being murdered by these these goons, but ultimately winds

(01:44:21):
up to be I think about a writer struggling with
the idea that they need to have a family when
really a creative person just wants to go away by
themselves and tell a family to go fuck themselves. I
think that's kind of what the subtext was here, But
I don't know. Gary, let's delve into seizure. What was

(01:44:42):
your first exposure to this movie?

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
Uh? Just you tell me to watch it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:46):
I mean, I say, hey, we watch this this crazy
film where these people exist in it. But as far
as like Yad three, who most people know as Barnbas
Collins from the Dark Shadows TV show, and Herbie Belichez,
Marlene Marlene Marlene Bestwick who Martine Bestwick, who plays the

(01:45:10):
queen in this film, the woman character.

Speaker 3 (01:45:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Martine Breast.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Which is which is what James spadercles are in private.

Speaker 4 (01:45:23):
She's in tons of exploitation stuff. So I was looking
forward to just these three people together, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
Right, No, I mean, look, it's a fantastic cost I
just think it's very muddled.

Speaker 4 (01:45:34):
But anyway, I said, like I explained Midsummer as one
of the best romantic comedies.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
Of the year.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
I'll say that until the day I died, because this film,
you know, much like you know, guys before Oliver Stone
have used this as a metaphor for for things. I'm
not sure any personal going on in his life, but essentially,
you know his Edmund, who's our who's our who's our writer?

Speaker 3 (01:46:04):
His wife. I we get to the end of the film.
I don't want to get to give.

Speaker 4 (01:46:08):
Too much away right now, but it seems like the
greatest plot to Gone Girl, your husband of all time
are just gonna get a divorce by because essentially these
characters show up out of his writings, out of his
out of his his his his drawings. They come out
of his head essentially and come come to life and

(01:46:31):
and terrorizes people.

Speaker 3 (01:46:32):
See that I watched this film.

Speaker 4 (01:46:36):
I I enjoyed it, but I the biggest take we
got from it, this is the film like film like
the films like The Strangers or Last House on the Left.
This is the film they want to be like, because
they try to go up with that trippy stuff Last
House on the Left, but this pulls it off to
the point of it's almost like psychedelic because you don't

(01:46:59):
know where the people came from.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
You don't you find out, you don't know why they're there.

Speaker 5 (01:47:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Yeah, it's weird because there's this whole bit where Martin
Beswiz stands up and says, you don't know who we are,
you won't know who we are, don't ask any questions
we are but blah blah blah whatever. But then later
Herve Village's is talking about, uh, you know, we come
from within you and we are growing within you and

(01:47:25):
we will know you and all this sort of stuff,
and you go, well, we like, what is it Is
it that you don't care about the human race? Or
is it that you do care about the human race?
Do you need us or don't you need us? You know,
it's sort of it sort of starts to become a
bit confusing, as does the idea that like, well, if
the if the only point is to just kill everyone,

(01:47:47):
why in the middle of it, are you, like, can
any of you run the hundred meters, like, why is
that important? Why is it important to have them running
in the middle of the night with shaky cam and
no lighting.

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
Well, it's kind of like films like this, films like
Demons too.

Speaker 4 (01:48:07):
You have people come to your house because he obviously
was was losing sleep over this these d dreams and says, hey,
you wake up, Onny, we have people coming over.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
You can tell you he does not want them there.
You know what happens. We get party gues and you
do not want for first of all.

Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
You get Demons and the movie Demons Demons too, but
you get his his literal id coming into play in
the form of Hermie villachas in a in a and
uh like a medieval looks like a like a mini
black panther, with teeth like an eyebron, his neck uh.

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
Coldly at the window, saying that he's hungry or something.

Speaker 4 (01:48:46):
And and you know them being invasiable, being being torturatiable
in a way, you know, telling them they're alreaddy murdered
except for one.

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
Well, then let's talk about the fact that when it
gets the point where Mary warrenov talking about here's another connection.
Is I mentioned earlier Chopping Mall. Mary Warrenov, of course
comes from the Corman school, is in Eating Raoul with

(01:49:14):
Paul Bartel and also appears with Paul Bartel in Chopping Mall.
So there we go. There is a very you know, geeky,
nerdy underground who the hell knows this shit about people
like Mary warn Off kind of fact, But there it is, Gary,

(01:49:36):
What do you have to say about that?

Speaker 4 (01:49:38):
She was also a Warhol girl, which makes her you know,
I had a conversation with her one time, but she
had lots of interesting stories to tell.

Speaker 3 (01:49:46):
I'll say about that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
Yeah, Mary Warrenov, look at that right there? What a career. Also,
Troy Donahue. Let let's not forget about Troy Donahue in
this movie. He obviously has a wonderful, long lasting Hollywood career.
Let's just talk about Troy Donahue for just a heart second.

(01:50:08):
Not only was Troy Donahue in The Love Boat as
everyone was Chips the great tvc lavone Shirley, but he
was also on Fantasy Island with the other co starff
in this movie, Hervey Villa Chairs. But he was in
Low Blow, which we've covered on the show, which is

(01:50:32):
by the wonderful Leo Fong. He's in Cyclone, which we've
also covered on the show. He's in Fight to Win
with Cynthia Rothrock. He's in what else can we say,
Assault of the Party Nerds as Sid Witherspoon. His in

(01:50:54):
Terminal Force is Slim. He's in Hot Times at Montclair
High Nudity. He's in a film called Nudity Required. Gary.

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
You know, I know that I was from and people
are going to know this too. Is he plays Tracy
Lord's father in a cry Baby.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
I believe he does.

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
Yes, So we take wand at the fark home as
I'll say about that one, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
And earlier I mentioned, of course the movie starring Tracy
Lords that she made for PM Entertainment, the Ice franchise.
I believe there's Ice and Ice two starring Tracy Lord's. Well,
Troy Donahue was in the movie Shock Him Dead with
Tracy Lord.

Speaker 3 (01:51:37):
So hey go.

Speaker 2 (01:51:38):
Lots of connections here. And this is what I love
about the world, Gary, is what you learn doing podcasts
such as this. The world is very small when you
talk about movies, but in general in general the world
is pretty small these days with the social meds and
everything else. Anyway, so we're in this big, stately home,

(01:52:02):
some nightmare goons born of a writer's restless nights show up. Yes, yes,
indeed who the old dude Troy Donahue. As I said
earlier that both these movies have a scene in which
someone sits down and explains whatever the fuck is going on.
He sits down and explains in a thick I don't

(01:52:24):
know what accent that's meant to be, type European card accent,
that who everyone is. They're like, well, there was this
ancient guy who threatened to kill this other guy something
or other, blah blah blah. Anyway, he was a dwarf,
and you go, okay, well he must be Herve village
has them. And he went with this big African guy

(01:52:46):
who was considered bad because this game was black and
he was physically disfigured. But now he's with the dwarf
and there whatever. And then there was a woman who
was buxom and filled with milk. Right, doesn't he have
this whole lunch field?

Speaker 3 (01:53:01):
Yeah he does. I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:53:02):
I don't remember the milk part, but that must explain
about Herve is so strong that the breast milk of
Martin Bestwick.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
Yeah, you don't remember the milk pot the event. You're
trying to make me look bad. You're trying to say
that the one pot I remembered was the milk pot.

Speaker 4 (01:53:17):
No, no, no, I mean because if you think about it,
Hervey in this film, you know what they call him,
I forget now, it's the scorpion or the something that's
in it, some kind of animal or something.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
And he is very strong, he can check it. He
does very agile.

Speaker 4 (01:53:36):
And you would think this from like like a little
bit like you watch like somefing like Willow and war
Davis walks that certain way.

Speaker 3 (01:53:42):
Herve did not have that him And I imagine his
team of a little person.

Speaker 4 (01:53:48):
Stuntman on this film, you know, at least one or
two to do you know, big things.

Speaker 3 (01:53:54):
You know, he had a real sense of power in
this film.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
But what what do you think this movie says about
Oliver Stone? Because I think I think we know the
person by their like first couple of films, don't you think, Well.

Speaker 4 (01:54:09):
They all they'll have to cut and tea somewhere and
a lot of these guys Francis for Coppola, you know,
Jonathan Demi, people like this that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:18):
They all cut her teeth in the exportation genre.

Speaker 4 (01:54:22):
And this is this is driving fair at its finest
to say, well, we'll put this on at two am
where people are half asleep and you know, and this
is this is this is the jumping off point the
exportation genre and it happens for so many of these
you know now big directors. So I think, like, yeah,

(01:54:43):
he's starting, probably started a PA somewhere on a couple
of projects. And so I'm gonna make this weird film
about this guy who dreams his his beings in the
reality weird.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
Right, Because again, not to give too much away, but
the closing minutes of this movie until the final reveal,
let's just say, but pre the final reveal, you think
that the whole movie has basically been Jonathan Friz's character
being like, you're right, I need before I can write

(01:55:19):
what I need to write, I need to eliminate my
friends and family. Because that's sort of right up until
the final reveal, which we won't talk about, but that's
essentially what the movie said. It's sure this is a
guy who halfway through the film, when the Martin Beswat
comes up to him and says, basically, your mind and

(01:55:39):
there's nothing you can do about it, like we have
to be together. Jonathan fred Is like, no, I want
to be with my wife. I want to be with
my wife, and he sort of fights around it, and
he gets a couple of hours with his wife and
then during that they have this, I have to say,
actually a pretty interesting conversation sort of about marriage and
about what she's with from him throughout this night of

(01:56:02):
torment and other stuff like that, And I think it's
a really good I think it's probably the most effective
moment of the film.

Speaker 4 (01:56:08):
Well it pays off at the end to read right right,
you get that, or no, he didn't moment right exactly, but.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
But no, I know it ultimately. But I mean just
in general throughout the film, like you know, she says,
you know, you're a coward, and I saw that tonight,
you know what I mean, Like the way he was
trying to get in the car and run away and
not care about his son and various other things, and
so sort of throughout this movie, you've got this character
who we believe at the beginning of the film to

(01:56:38):
be a fairly upstanding guy, if not a little tormented
and a little tortured who's inviting these people around to
his house. But as we meet each of these people,
especially Joseph Sorola as Charlie Hughes, they all seem to
be utterly repugnant. The richie guy with Mary warrenov is

(01:56:59):
his sort of arm candy who's also having it away
with another guy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Like
everyone is either cheating on each other or trying to
outspend each other, trying to show off with each other,
trying to fuck each other over whatever it is, and
you kind of go, well, wait a minute, he has
these terrible, terrible friends. But then at the end of

(01:57:20):
the movie you seem to think, well, it was the
whole message of this part of the movie. You have
to really fucking kill your friends and family and loved
ones and everything in order to be a true writer,
whatever the fuck that means to Oliver Stone. Only for
there to be sort of this flip at the very end,
which I don't want to go into, but it's there.

(01:57:41):
And that's where my question came from Gary, like about like,
what do you think it says about Oliver Stone? Like
when as someone who's tried to sit down and write
a bunch of stuff in his life. I think that
and also different parts of my life, Like I tried
to write feature stuff at sixteen, I tried to write
feature stuff in my early twenties. I've tried to write
feature stuff recently. And I will say that that that

(01:58:04):
whatever you're writing, especially as your first or second or
third or whatever movie you're you're normally in a sort
of almost naive adolescent way, kind of putting a lot
of yourself into the script, probably more of it than
you need to, Which is why having watched The Hand
a bunch of times and even talked about it on
two different podcasts, and watching now this movie Seizure, I

(01:58:30):
think between the two it says a lot about who
Oliver Stone is. If you read between some of the lines,
do you see where I'm coming from? Or do you
not get that filming at all?

Speaker 3 (01:58:38):
No? No, No, I get it. I could. Yeah. Again, a
lot of less guys who write these things.

Speaker 4 (01:58:46):
It could be going through a messy breakup or something,
and this is why we put that that that part
in or right, I'm not I don't know too much
about Oliver Stone, his backstory or family life or what
was going on in nineteen seventy four.

Speaker 3 (01:58:59):
But it's definitely like regret there to say, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:59:05):
Yeah, maybe I made a mistake because at the point
there's a point of the film where.

Speaker 3 (01:59:10):
The son who's disappeared.

Speaker 4 (01:59:11):
Through ninety percent of this film is hidden somewhere and
he he you know, makes it, makes a decision that
makes him seem like a real piece.

Speaker 3 (01:59:21):
Of shit, and he is.

Speaker 4 (01:59:23):
You know, yeah, yeah, It's it's hard to say. I
don't know the younger man personally as far as like
what was going on in his life when he was
writing this film.

Speaker 2 (01:59:33):
Well, he was twenty eight when he made this movie.
All of a sudden, it was twenty eight when he
when this well when this movie came out, so twenty
seven when he was making And I think that it
probably has it has some of the issues that you
can imagine a you know, we know all of us

(01:59:54):
don't to be a conscientious politically aware, you know, I
want to see the truth sort of photo journalist style, aggressive, weird, wonderful,
you know, truth searching kind of person. From his films

(02:00:14):
and from interviews that I've seen with him, would would
you say that's a fair account?

Speaker 3 (02:00:17):
Gary, Yeah, I say so.

Speaker 4 (02:00:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just for the stuff I've heard later
as far as like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
So I think that when you're on your road to
becoming a more political filmmaker, because I think he does
become once he gets the Salvador and Wall Street in
some of those movies, he's becoming more of a political filmmaker.

Speaker 3 (02:00:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:00:39):
I like to watch something like Seizure or something like
The Hand and try and see the measure of that
guy early on. You know, in the formation of that
guy early on, there's a little bit of it in here,
whether it's the you know, braying, annoying, greedy I can
throw five hundred grand down towards an island without batting

(02:01:02):
an island kind of guy with the token young wife
who's having it away with the other guests. You know,
there's there's certainly some commentary on that. And and like
you said, Gary, I think you're right, there's probably a
little bit of either his first relationship or uh maybe

(02:01:25):
his parents' relationship, uh, whenever that hardship came to him.
I feel like he's put that in this this movie,
in this script.

Speaker 3 (02:01:35):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 4 (02:01:37):
Why why else would it be there to say, you know,
I have abandonment issues or something along those lines.

Speaker 2 (02:01:44):
Yeah, because I think a lot of people would be
probably saying, well, he's Edmund Blackstone, he's the writer, he's
the tortured artist, he's whatever. But I think Oliver Stone
would probably tell you he's the kid. Mhmm.

Speaker 3 (02:02:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
Yeah, definitely like feeling abandoned by a parent who and
maybe resenting the fact that as a creative, as all
of us, tone is a creative, maybe resenting the fact
of how much creativity takes you away from the other
important things in life, family, friends, loved one, you know whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:02:23):
Right, you know, its like a morality tale, you know,
you people just just just turn up, Yeah, to torture
his people.

Speaker 3 (02:02:32):
And yeah, and I mentioned.

Speaker 4 (02:02:35):
To you, you know, with the anything you get this film,
and it'll probably give way a little bit too, you know,
these people coming to fruition and him seeing all these
things but to shared psychosis.

Speaker 3 (02:02:46):
I don't know if this is real or not.

Speaker 4 (02:02:48):
Unlet's you guys, it's all it all comes from dreams,
all stems from dreams.

Speaker 3 (02:02:53):
And you know, it feels like a really.

Speaker 4 (02:02:55):
Jacob's Ladder situation r y where it seems it seems
so real to him and again you're going back to
films that that this this.

Speaker 3 (02:03:06):
Jacob's life is better than Seizure.

Speaker 4 (02:03:09):
But the ideas of Seizure, yeah, they leak other places,
I think, Yeah, yeah, the whole living in reality when
you're under the rest, because sleeping is a big theme
of this film. He's not getting enough rest, So is
he he seeing these things? Or she thinks he is

(02:03:30):
because he hasn't got enough rest. But it's a shared psychosis.
And it's just great because something gets press slammed out
a window with this movie.

Speaker 3 (02:03:39):
I'm I'm there for it, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:03:42):
I also think I think it's fair to say that
what's really interesting about a lot of these sort of
seventies horrors, not necessarily counting stuff like Texas Chainsaw or Halloween,
although they's certainly part of it. But I'm thinking more
of sort of the films like Seizure that are being
made in the seventies that are both They will both

(02:04:07):
inform the movies that come later on, whether it's stuff
like The Changeling even or you know, Amityville or whatever.
They'll affect movies that come later on, but also are
very much a part of the past because they're sort

(02:04:28):
of very much a part of the past, because there
is this idea in literature and even in plays of
you get everyone all in one place sort of thing
and kind of play out their neuroses, and to some extent,
this is sort of the filmed version of that, with
a little bit of the more of the horror, because

(02:04:49):
they're actually murdered, rather than in a play where they
would be sort of revealed to be the monsters that
they really are. In this movie, they're sort of murdered
and then you realize what months as they were. You know,
there's a there's a very vain woman in here that
thinks that she needs to be all beautiful to go
back to the afterlife with her previous husband, who she

(02:05:13):
thinks is also mad at her for having a current
husband as well, who wishes she was younger, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, and and and obviously gets in
trouble because of that. There's the very rich guy who
gets in trouble. There's the there's the woman who's cheating
Mary Warrenoff, who's cheating on her husband with one of

(02:05:33):
the other party guests, and each of them sort of
display these behaviors that I guess need to be judged.
I think that the ultimately I forgive it a lot
because it is a directorial debut, and and therefore I
sort of do forgive it a lot of its clumsiness.

(02:05:56):
But there is also as a as a viewer, there's
it's very difficult to escape that clumsiness and none sort
of to be hit over the head by it because
there are al many there are almost rather too many
things going on in this badly that it becomes difficult

(02:06:21):
to unravel. It becomes difficult to really kind of go, well,
here's where the strong bit was, and here's the filmmaker
Oliver Stone's going to become. And then here's all this
noise and mess and you know, nighttime shots with out
enough lighting of people running through woods screaming, where you're
just like, what is going on? And why am I

(02:06:41):
watching this? And why does any of this matter? If
your only purposes that by the end of the night
one of them is still alive? Kill everyone? Now, why
are you making them run through a field? Nobody cares
like it's very weird.

Speaker 3 (02:06:56):
We gotta fill ninety minutes right of you know, and.

Speaker 4 (02:07:01):
People love, you know, people rich folks being tortured in films.
And I think Seizure itself is really intelligently written as
far as like a first time effort goes because you
look at a film like this, and you look at
a film like House on the Edge of the Park,
which there's a lot of similar themes. You know, three

(02:07:23):
derelics you know, or who are bad dude to two Africa.
I think it's two or three Africa, which one but.

Speaker 3 (02:07:28):
David hes is one of them.

Speaker 4 (02:07:30):
And they go into this this rich person's party and
they do this whole torturous thing and it looks less
best of rich people and see how they tick and YadA, YadA, YadA.

Speaker 3 (02:07:39):
Now you know where this film is better than how
Stanger Park is.

Speaker 4 (02:07:43):
I don't think say the characters are any better because
David Hesses is the man obviously, but it doesn't it
doesn't own in the ending as far as like you.

Speaker 3 (02:07:54):
Know what happens. You know, it's kind of morality.

Speaker 4 (02:07:57):
Tale that that our lead lead it is kind of
a real piece of shit to his family.

Speaker 3 (02:08:02):
And this is the way.

Speaker 4 (02:08:04):
Almost the end almost says, hey, by the way, honey,
I want a divorce in the hard way. But House
State Park ends with Oh, by the way, Psycho Pass,
you were crazy the whole time, and now we have
the upper hand. You know, you don't get into that
bullshitt and Seizure characters who are deplorable and they die,

(02:08:27):
whether whether it's like a dream or not. You know,
they could dig dispatched and and there's no there's no
sugarcoating what happens to them.

Speaker 3 (02:08:36):
They they're gonna go. It's gonna be down to one person.

Speaker 4 (02:08:41):
To the point where our main character makes a choice,
a choice that ultimately you know, backfires, yes, and you
find out what you find out at the very end
of this movie, and it works. It works for me
as like for the same we like Fantastic or stuff
like that. You know, you don't know what a dream is,

(02:09:02):
am I dreaming?

Speaker 3 (02:09:03):
Is this real?

Speaker 2 (02:09:04):
So I'll admit something. I watched this originally on VHS
because that's how I came across it, which is part
of the rules of this part of the aftermovie Diner
where we deep dive into the VHS world, which is
where I pulled Seizure from because it had a man
clad in chain mail and a big leather cow holding

(02:09:28):
a battle axe much like Dragon Fight did, so I thought, well,
these two movies will go together, even though they are
nothing like each other, I discovered anyway. I watched it
firstly on VHS and then I rewatched it today hoping
to find a little more insight or spark or something
for me to sort of hook onto. You know, I

(02:09:52):
have a tricky relationship with some of these seventies horror
films because I like, like I say, they lie between
the two schools of horror that I truly love, and
that is the old you know. I tend to love
either the Universal Horrors and the Hammer Horrors, sort of
the originators of both black and white and color horror film,

(02:10:16):
and then the sort of late seventies early eighties horror
movies of you know, everything from Halloween, Evil Dead, Nightmare
on Elm Street, Friday the Thirteenth, all those, all those ones.
And I whenever I watch the seventies movie, I'm always like,
I understand that this movie needed to be made in

(02:10:39):
order for other movies down the road to be made.
And I get now with a hindsight, that's important. It's
relevance and what Oliver Stone is trying to do. However,
with all that caveat and and everything. When I watch
it just as a movie, and bear in mind that

(02:11:00):
I've watched it twice at this point in the span
of a week, I have to say that, while I
completely agree with Gary it's a very intelligently written film,
And while I think that there are some themes that
Oliver Stone is definitely grasping at throughout the film, that
he will make much clearer and much better later on

(02:11:20):
in his career. And while it's certainly one that's worth
watching because there's some intrigue about it being Olive Stone's
first film, I have to say that it's for me personally.
Gary that it's negative points outweigh it's positive for me.

Speaker 3 (02:11:40):
And that's fine, you know. It's just I.

Speaker 4 (02:11:45):
Went into it, you know, blind obviously, and I.

Speaker 3 (02:11:49):
Thought a lot of merit. It. I'm not saying it's
the best thing you're gonna watch all week.

Speaker 2 (02:11:52):
Oh no, no, no, there is a lot of merit.
There's definitely a not merit in it. I wouldn't take
that away from it.

Speaker 4 (02:11:57):
No, for a first time go around, and I've seen
a lot of a lot of worse first time efforts
that that don't make any sense, and a lot of
ones that knocking out of the park.

Speaker 3 (02:12:09):
This is more like a bunch single the third and.

Speaker 4 (02:12:16):
It works, but it's very it's very silly in parts
because once you once you until you find out that
the what these things are, where they came from, you know,
which is essentially the finale of the film. You find out, okay,
you know this is what's going on. You're like, why
why is this this black man servant just throwing people

(02:12:39):
out of windows and stuff, but you have no motivation.

Speaker 3 (02:12:42):
But then again you go to.

Speaker 4 (02:12:43):
New stuff like the strangers, like, you know, why are
you attacking us?

Speaker 3 (02:12:47):
Because you were home?

Speaker 4 (02:12:48):
You know, It's as simple, you know, it's it's kind
of like the house did the park?

Speaker 3 (02:12:52):
Well, why why are you here?

Speaker 4 (02:12:54):
Because you guys are rich assholes and you know, we
want to tork to you, you know right.

Speaker 2 (02:12:58):
Which I totally understand. And except that what he has
her doing this movie is has her stand there and
go you will not know why we are here, You
will not know who we are. You will know And
I'm like, you laboring the point a bit there, Oliver,
you know what I.

Speaker 4 (02:13:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And you do all these these
tasks and you know, you know, then.

Speaker 2 (02:13:19):
You have to have the old dude with a mustache
sit down and be like, so there was a dwarf
who was angry at somebody, you know, tell this story
and you kind of go, you know what, if you'd
written this slightly better, Oliver, you wouldn't need to have
two scenes in it in which people just explain exactly
what's happening.

Speaker 3 (02:13:37):
Now that exposition I didn't need.

Speaker 4 (02:13:40):
So I would call that a major flaw of the film,
because if if you just knew without knowing you know,
or just you know, I had to show around with
it without knowing what their motives were.

Speaker 2 (02:13:49):
But we didn't know who any of them were.

Speaker 4 (02:13:51):
I know, by it, I didn't need to know a whole,
a whole whole feel about yo. Then there was a dwarf,
but he ran with a large black man who the other.

Speaker 2 (02:14:01):
No, I agree that was heavy handed.

Speaker 3 (02:14:03):
That was I didn't need that exploration. And that's one
of the biggest.

Speaker 4 (02:14:07):
Things I find in new horror films that I hate
the most is that they have to explain everything for
the whole audience.

Speaker 2 (02:14:15):
Well, that's because they've retconned a bunch of sequels that
everyone really liked and are trying to make their own
sequels because they're arrogant householes anyway, So they have to
explain what they're doing because they've People watching the movie
are like, wait, didn't this happen in part six? What
the hell is happening? And they're like, no, we retconned it.

(02:14:35):
There is no part six down and you're like, how
can I watch this movie not knowing about part six
when I've watched Part six a ton? Why have you
watched part six and down? I'm like, because the producer's
cut has a lot more Donald Pleasants in it, and
it's fucking awesome. That's why. Because Donald Pleasants is better
than anything that Rob's Onmbie or David Gordon Green will
ever do. Thank you very much, good night, goodbye. I

(02:14:57):
have no time if you're retcon antics, d GG or
whatever your name is anyway, So yeah, seizure, Yeah, it's
it's I don't know it.

Speaker 3 (02:15:13):
I have.

Speaker 2 (02:15:13):
I have some major writing issues with it. The first
is it doesn't establish any of the characters, so we
don't even really know that Jonathan fred is an author
until way way way into it. Right, It literally starts
with him waking up from a nightmare, and everyone's sort
of talking vaguely about these nightmares. It never establishes who

(02:15:36):
he is, whether you know who the who his wife is,
what how long they've been married, none of that is.
And then these people start showing up. Well, in fact,
some people are already there because it cuts downstairs to
his house, and he's like, sister dearest, I don't want
to have to deal with all these people. I'm like,
whose sister? Who's are they? Are you his sister? Are

(02:15:57):
you the author's sister? What sister are you? What are
you talking about? And who are you? And what are you?
And then there's two other people making whoopee in the
other room, Mary warren Off and some young guy, and
you're like, wait, am I meant to know who these
two people are? Wait? She's the wife of the guy
who was just screaming at the gas attendant. When was
that established? So you know, there was all this problem

(02:16:18):
that I had with the beginning. Now, obviously as the
movie goes on, you sort of learn about all that,
and you might be like, well, John, why are you
asking for all the answers up front? I'm like, well,
because for the for what happens next to have any weight.
I need to know and at least like a little

(02:16:40):
bit of some of these characters. And I didn't know
them or liked them by the time all hell brokes.

Speaker 3 (02:16:46):
Oh, I get totally. And you're not wrong with any
of that. That's what I said.

Speaker 4 (02:16:49):
It a rat amateur at this point. But yeah, it's
as far as like a write writer goes and left
a lot of stuff out or on the cutting room
floor or whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:17:02):
You know. I've never been a filmmaking myself.

Speaker 4 (02:17:05):
I imagine there's a lot of stuff that they felt
was not important they took out of.

Speaker 2 (02:17:10):
The movie, right, maybe for pacing issues.

Speaker 3 (02:17:13):
Yeah, yeah, we got that. You got that a little bit.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:17:17):
Sorry, No, I was gonna say, and one thing I
will not complain about. One thing I thought that was
really good about this movie is it is It battles along,
It doesn't hang around for too long.

Speaker 3 (02:17:29):
No, And yeah, you get you get that.

Speaker 4 (02:17:32):
I mean, you got care about characters he took up
by MG earlier and Hellmaster. One of the biggest strengths
that has made his most popular film, Doned the Deadheads, obviously,
is that you have four people in your ear, you
get to know them so whe of them dies, you
know you felt you feel really bad because you've been

(02:17:53):
and you've been in toe with this.

Speaker 3 (02:17:54):
Character this whole time. Yeah, this film has said none
of that.

Speaker 4 (02:17:57):
I just know that the old guy's a fucking a
rich piece of shit who happened to be a pedophile
at that best because he's feeling that young girl, right,
you know, So you want this guy to die, But
besides him, you really don't have any people in the
film to say, you know what, this person deserves to die.

Speaker 2 (02:18:18):
Well, the guy, the guy in the red top and
the bell bottomed jeans, who sat very wide legged and
loosely on the couch complaining to Sister dearest whoever the
hell that was about the guests that were coming that weekend.
I pretty much wanted him to die or at least
get a repeatedly heavy cock punch for about ten minutes.

Speaker 3 (02:18:41):
Yep, up, exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:18:43):
I just wanted him to be repeatedly kicked in the cock,
is what I'm saying. That's really what I That's really
what I'm saying. It's fair guy. And then what about
Mary Warrenoff When given the chance with the dagger to
fight to the death, Cook and Sparks style it. She's
she's all ready for it, she's all about to fucking

(02:19:04):
just She's like, Jonathan Frid fuck you, I'm getting some
of those rich Man ducats because I was fucking in
when he died, and so I'm going to get some
of this rich shit. So I'm going to stab you.
And Jonathan Fred is like, fuck you, bitch, I'm the
hero of this movie and kills her instead.

Speaker 4 (02:19:26):
It's kind of like one of those she she's been
around the block more than twice, and this is desperation
twice in this movie. I think, yes, this killer be
killed at this point, so well, why why not, you know,
go her goal there?

Speaker 2 (02:19:40):
You know, well, because you're a good person, and you
think that mythical people coming through windows demanding that we
do ridiculous contests in order to see who was alive
is mental and we should probably all just take a
deep breath and assess what's actually going on here, which
is the Jonathan and Fred hates all of us and

(02:20:01):
wants to kill all of us.

Speaker 4 (02:20:02):
Yep, yeah, that's the moral of the story there. Yeah, yeah,
Barb Barnabas Collins hates house guests.

Speaker 3 (02:20:10):
Okay, you know the other way to.

Speaker 2 (02:20:12):
Look at it is also you know, the movie is
called Seizo, right, and one of the video covers of
the movie actually uses the screaming and heart palpitation getting
old dude, old rich dude Joseph Sorola on the front
cover that makes it look like he's having a heart

(02:20:32):
attack because at one point in the movie he kind
of clutches his chest and falls to the floor. The
other way to look at this movie, especially with the
ending such as it is, is I'm gonna let my
life flash before my eyes. And as my life flashes
before my eyes, I'm gonna regret that I spent all
this time with these people and not more time writing

(02:20:55):
my book.

Speaker 4 (02:20:57):
Yeah, you know, because the cats and the Cradle and
the little person, you know, strong man?

Speaker 2 (02:21:03):
You know, is that is that Cats in the Cradle,
little person strong man? Come on, we all know how
that goes. We've all been there.

Speaker 3 (02:21:15):
He didn't have time for his son, so he created
some new friends, and those new friends, you know, murdered people.

Speaker 2 (02:21:21):
And you know, those new friends killed everyone he apparently cared.

Speaker 4 (02:21:25):
About because he just talk He his son tucked away
and addict somewhere and forgot about until it was time
to it's time for for murder time.

Speaker 2 (02:21:34):
Yeah, there's there's a lot. There's a lot going on
in this movie, and I don't know that it lands
like nails the landing. I'm not going to He's an
interesting thing. If Dragon Fight is a two star movie,
but a Keeper Seizure is a three star movie, but
I don't need to keep it. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (02:21:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:21:55):
Yeah, it all depends on you know, your perspective. The
other other films like this. I just like they took
out that one thing, that one thing where they're just
explaining all these myth supposedly mythological you know, beings that
were torturing them. I think it goes up to three stars,

(02:22:19):
and I'll keep that in my collection as like a
time peach, but I won't go back to it, you know,
too often. But I think this is this is the
better of of of some of those a lot of
those home invasion movies in my opinion, because it just
goes for the it goes for the teeth, that has

(02:22:41):
the the ending that says that's it's it's kind.

Speaker 3 (02:22:44):
Of like.

Speaker 4 (02:22:46):
I ironic, like you've been been a piece of ship
for years and now this is your punishment, that this
never ending, this never ending Ash Williams type nightmare, that
that which I that's how it evil to two people
that say, oh, I don't like Evil Dead too, because
it's not like it does this the same things it
does in Evil Dead one.

Speaker 3 (02:23:07):
Do you ever think that maybe this.

Speaker 4 (02:23:08):
Is just Ashes continuous nightmare that people they just keep
putting him through, you know, with the new set of
people every time.

Speaker 2 (02:23:15):
Which is which is you know the phantasm fan in
you coming out and explaining these franchises that way, Because yes,
I think that that it can definitely be interpreted that way.
I I think that I and I see where Seizure

(02:23:37):
sits in the history of horror, and therefore, like I
would give it more stars because I think it is
more it should be better known. I think we can
definitely say that it should it should be better known.
And it was one of those that sort of pointed
the way to what was going to happen in the

(02:23:58):
future in horror especially, and so you have to give
it credit as sort of an embryonic thing for the
horror genre. And I don't I don't discount the way
you look at it as a sort of home invasion movie.
Sort of a fancy home invasion movie. I think that

(02:24:19):
there's I think there's too much cockiness as a writer
in Oliver Stone. That bothers me a little bit. But
you know, the young often right that way, so it's
it's to be expected. I suppose I liked it, as

(02:24:40):
I said, it's three stars. I don't know, having seen
it twice, that I ever need to see it again.

Speaker 3 (02:24:47):
Yeah, I get that. I get that. I just like it.

Speaker 4 (02:24:49):
I like that I saw it, though, and it's not
like something I would go back there and say, hey,
you know, what's.

Speaker 3 (02:24:55):
A really dynamite film. Used to watch?

Speaker 4 (02:24:57):
Go watch Seizure is it's Oliver stone first directorial thing,
and you know, it's really terrific. But in somebody else's
eyes they may get about twenty minutes into it and say, well,
I'll turn this off.

Speaker 3 (02:25:09):
Now, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:25:10):
But there's a lot of a lot of unintentional subjects,
I guess, and a lot of a lot of good
things that happened in the film, as far as smart.

Speaker 3 (02:25:20):
Things that happened in the film.

Speaker 4 (02:25:22):
So I I think i'd uh say three stars too,
and I would leave I would believe that on my
shelf and let it collect us for a while, so
I'd said, hey, maybe I'll watch Seizure again.

Speaker 2 (02:25:34):
You know, yeah, I think it's It's one that I
would recommend, but not one that I would watch again,
if that makes any sense.

Speaker 3 (02:25:42):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (02:25:42):
I think that people should seek it out and watch
it and live through it and sit with it for
a while and think about it for a while and
then sort of go, right, but what did it? What
did it ultimately achieve? Ah? And I think that we
would We wouldn't come up with very much, but it's

(02:26:03):
it's part of if you're trying to fill in the
blanks of seventies horror that led us to the more
famous stuff we are used to and that we talk
about more frequently, Seizure should be part of your viewing that.

Speaker 3 (02:26:19):
That's fair, right, Yeah, the roots are there, man, for sure.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
And just then I'm sure I have Quentin Tarantino decided
to make a home invasion film. He he would say, Hey,
I've seen Seizure U thirty five millimeter in my fucking basement,
and let's make a film. It's trippy as Seizure be
for today's audience has just dropped the ball.

Speaker 2 (02:26:42):
You're right, Seizure is totally the movie that Tarantino would
name drop, you know what I mean, Like he's like, well,
you haven't seen Seizure with fucking bah blah blah blah
bla blah and Troy Donahue, and like when like Sees
would be a movie, would wouldly be a movie that
Tarantina would want to name drop to seem fucking you

(02:27:05):
know what I mean? Like, uh, can you believe the
guy who made Seizure ended up making Natroborn Killers? Fucking
you know, like you'd have all the the fucking Tarantino
bullshit about it, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:27:20):
Like, and I'm saying I'm not saying if you watch
Caesar it makes you a hitch to do stuffing like that.
It's just you know, this is this is something he
would you know, use use uh and using air quotes
here and John can't see them inspiration to make to
make his own exploitation film.

Speaker 3 (02:27:37):
Like I.

Speaker 2 (02:27:42):
I both love and hate the commentary that him and
Edgar Wright did for Hot Fuzz because it was so
much like name dropping and one upmanship of movie fandom,
you know what I mean? Uh? But I both love
that because I love movie fandom and hate it for

(02:28:03):
all its hipster like, Oh, look we're referencing Brannigan. Oh
doesn't that make us knowledgeable about cinema or whatever? You
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:28:13):
Yeah, I'll go with that, and then I'll go to
there's a podcast if you don't know Joe Dante And
yeah he doesn't, Josh Josh Olsen wrote, he wrote the
History of Violence strip, which I think is top three
Cronenberg for me. Uh these show called Movies That Made

(02:28:35):
Me and he was a guest under one hundred episode
egg you're right, and he talks about choice, the music
drops his top ten music drops in film, and he
does that brilliant And the same story about Baby Driver.
I know it's not that great his greatest work in
the world, but if you watch it, you listen to
the conversation, you can see him as a filmmaker, you know,

(02:28:58):
dropping these things where supposed to go, these music cues,
you know, and it's kind of brilliant.

Speaker 2 (02:29:07):
It is. But as one of my Instagram videos showed
that the music drop of especially when it's scoring an
action sequence. While a lot of people nowadays credit obviously
people like Edgar Wright and Matthew Vaughan, well min scorsein

(02:29:31):
is definitely. But in terms of scoring action sequences specifically,
you've got Edgar Wright, You've got Matthew Vaughan from the
Kingsman franchise. You've got obviously James Gunn with The Guard
of the Galaxy. And I think that what we all

(02:29:53):
need to remember is that the first movie to score
an action sequence with a popular song of this kind was,
of course, the opening pre credit Bond action sequence in
View to a Kill Yes, where Roger Moore skates or

(02:30:15):
surfs or skis down a snowy mountain to the strains
of the Beach Boys. And so if you think that
is naff and stupid and silly and goofy and doesn't
quite work and isn't very good and was probably a
boneheaded idea by the studio trying to cross promote an

(02:30:36):
album that nobody was buying with a movie that nobody
wanted to watch, then you're probably correct. But also it's
probably a genius Like you just don't know. It's one
of those things that you watch that you go is
it genius or is it completely awful? Most of the
time I fall on the side of completely awful, But
the genius part is still there, and I think this

(02:30:58):
is the line that movies like Seizure and other films walk.

Speaker 3 (02:31:04):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, Oh my gosh. Yeah. But I
had a good time with this.

Speaker 4 (02:31:10):
I again, it's a three keeper, keep ang your shelf
and lit a collection in dust for a while, like
maybe ten years later, watched Seizure again and say, I
remember explosive, but I I also remember why I liked it.

Speaker 2 (02:31:24):
You know, yeah, I think now I will say this
to people watching. It is available, I believe on t
B or YouTube, one of the two if you look
it up, and there is clearly a cleaner print of
it out there, because what they had streaming that I
watched this afternoon is a lot better than what I

(02:31:47):
watched on VHS, where it was you know, pretty muddy
as a as A as A as a VHS, and
therefore a lot of the film that night sequences were
very difficult to ask and exactly what was happening, whereas
on the print that I saw online it was a
little clearer. I would love to see a brightened up version,

(02:32:14):
like a little color temp done on this. I feel
like my other problem with the movie was that I
felt it sort of be perpetually gloomy. I couldn't quite
always tell what was going on, where it was going on,
why it was happening, et cetera, et cetera. Do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:32:31):
Oh, yeah, this is mad for vinegar syndrome or severing
to put out one day it'll happen.

Speaker 2 (02:32:36):
Yeah, definitely. But I mean, you know, I'm also conscious
to not always sort of play to the idea that
there were these one hundred lost classics or whatever. I
was watching a movie recently that everyone had sort of
talked up to me as sort of a changeling type.

(02:33:00):
This is a ghost story movie that you absolutely have
to see that you haven't seen, et cetera, et cetera,
et ceteracal Burnt Offerings with Oliver Reed and Karen Black Yeah,
and Bennie Davis. And it was one of those where
I'm like, I watched it and I'm like, no, this

(02:33:21):
doesn't you know this. I don't need this to exist.
I know it does exist, and it's fine, but this
isn't telling me anything or showing me anything, or you know,
exciting me about anything. This seems to be a movie
very much stuck in its past without really justifying its future,

(02:33:43):
if that makes any sense.

Speaker 4 (02:33:45):
Well, the the ending of Burnt Offerings, you know, you
alway does that better?

Speaker 3 (02:33:50):
Years later?

Speaker 4 (02:33:51):
Is the Sentinel that micro Richie's The Sentinel does a
lot better?

Speaker 3 (02:33:55):
Right, Yeah, that that idea?

Speaker 2 (02:33:57):
Yes, no completely, But but but again, I I don't know.
When I think about Sizia and I think about either
the movies that came before or after it, I I
just don't know. I don't know how much I can.

Speaker 4 (02:34:14):
Yeah, I mean, everything's gonna happen its roots, and you know,
I can't say the people that.

Speaker 3 (02:34:20):
Make those home Invader films have seen seizure.

Speaker 4 (02:34:23):
But but they know, they've read they've read crime stories,
you know, similar to minus the mystical characters that has
happened in real life to people. Uh, but yeah, everything's
gonna have a start. And this isn't the first home
invasion film ever ever conceived, but yeah it's it's definitely

(02:34:46):
one of the early exploitation ones that inspired a lot
of things. So whether they know it or not, you know, So, Gary.

Speaker 2 (02:34:55):
I'm gonna I'm gonna redo my review from when I
first watched this movie, gotcha, And I just want you
to respond. Okay, So this one is most certainly a
curio if it's Oliver Stone's first movie, and much like
The Hand, where he's not so concerned about the horror
of it and rather the way the accident affects the
man and the artist, so does Seizure eventually wind up

(02:35:18):
being about what will enow to sacrifice in terms of
family and friends to get their work done, Or at
least that's what I'm assuming from the final act of
the movie, because before then it is one of the
most confusing, bizarre, badly edited, downright silly and even childish
approximation of what dream Villains might even be. At one point, thankfully,

(02:35:39):
some dottery buster with a big mustache basically explains what
is happening. But without that scene, I'd have been lost
and spent the whole time thinking, why is herve Villachez
a weird jokestore costume, wearing heavy and a woman who
wishes she was Elvira bothering these poor people? Not that
we know anything about these people. I mean, if I

(02:36:00):
hadn't read the cover of the video, I'm not sure
i'd have even known that the lead dude was meant
to be an author. There is a scene right at
the beginning where some loudmouth rich guy threatens a blue
collar gas station attendant and we meant to be glad
that we're following this snob fucker and happy when he dies.
Who knows. The first half of this movie is utterly

(02:36:20):
whacked out and bizarre. It saves itself a little in
the last act, but not enough.

Speaker 4 (02:36:27):
Yeah, I agree, I agree totally, you know, because it
is a mess, and the ending is kind of not
really kind of shoehorned in because at the end of
the day, or our writer is just a guy who
he's health to sleep habits and he doesn't get them,
and you know, essentially, you know, a piece of shit

(02:36:49):
to his wife and wife and son. So so what
happens to him in the end, it's almost like she
walks out like she's a new woman.

Speaker 3 (02:36:58):
Actually, it's like a satur releap pick up. Yes, we're
for free, but it's so weird.

Speaker 4 (02:37:06):
I believe the ending of this that I do the
ending of Magic with Aunt Anthony Hopkins and Margaret, because
there's that that scene of on We at the end
where ann Market just walks out smiling for no reason. No,
the problem I had with that that movie is the
end itself. It is like, is Ann Margaret fucking with
him this whole time with this dovey? Is she she

(02:37:28):
messed with his brain? Or she just like, hey, look
he's finally free of his his psychosis with this duvey.
So I'm just gonna smile and go plan the leaves
for a while and then fade to black. You know
the movie, which I really enjoyed until right at that moment.

Speaker 2 (02:37:44):
You know, yeah, no, I understand, I understand. But it's
made us think, It's made us took, it's made us love,
it's made us scared, it's made us run for the hills,
and it's made us scream into the toilet bowl of
our life. Why am I doing this? Margrant Gary? I
have to say, sir, this has been a thrill. Thank

(02:38:04):
you so much for this joining me on this said
no girl Michael Perey and VHS Deep Dive Jenny that
we will repeat again, I hope in a couple of
weeks for the Cinema Beach podcast. How have you felt
that it's gone? And did you wish that I shut
the fuck up?

Speaker 3 (02:38:22):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:38:22):
No, were you we get together, you get like similar
to me, ax, You get tangency you get, you get
very jokes, you get. You just two guys who are
friends and brothers have fun, you know talking. We had
a whole conversation off off show here, you know, through
through through text has said, you know, a while therapeutic,

(02:38:44):
this kind of stuff can be. And you know we're
working on down we we we enjoy each other's companies.

Speaker 3 (02:38:50):
So why not get together and do and talk about
some stupid stuff like sezure and right, try try try
to find merit it, you.

Speaker 2 (02:38:56):
Know, but do you know what, guy, I think it's
beautiful because I have to say when I first started
podcasting almost thirteen years ago, now, when I first started podcasting,
it was one of those things where the connections that
I made with the people online that then led to

(02:39:18):
me discovering more of my movie palette, right, discovering movies
that I hadn't seen or heard of before, whether that
was shot on video stuff, or whether that was straight
to video action stuff, or whether that was weird little
corners of the horror franchises or whatever it was. I

(02:39:39):
have to say that while I was a huge, huge
movie fan, it wasn't until I started podcasting that my
taste expanded into the weird and wonderful corners that it
now lives in. In fact, I'm more likely to put
on a movie like Dragon Fight and Seizure any night
of the week that I am putting on you know,

(02:40:01):
I don't know et in Indiana Jones or Back to
the Future in the Thing or whatever. Like, I've seen
those movies a lot, and I will put them on again.
But I remember when I started watching movies for the
aftermovie Diner and getting to know Mo and getting to
know you, and getting to know Doc Paul Crosson and

(02:40:22):
various people who I and Dave Demos, Aaron Oregon, who
I got to know through this wonderful medium. I expanded
my movie watching, and we've gone through a lot of
different times in the diner, and we've watched a lot
of different things, whether it was the years of going
to the actual diner with Jim and watching brand new

(02:40:43):
movies that had just come out, or whether it was
going way back and talking about fan favorites like the
John Carpenter and Kurt Russell and other people. I'm liking
right now where I'm at. I'm liking that I am
Rediscuss and discovering again my love of whether it's seventies,

(02:41:04):
eighties or nineties vhs and just finding some of those
movies that you're like, well, shit, man, this is where
all those things that we love actually come from. Like,
let's spend some time in that world, you know what
I mean? Like this shit informed the next stuff, which
informed the next stuff, which informed the next stuff. And
you know, in order for John Wick to run, then,

(02:41:27):
you know, Robert Zada had to don heavy chain mail
and go to Vazquez Rocks in northern California and walk
in order for you know, John Wick to run. So
I love the history we find out about from these movies.
I love deep diving and going into who did what
and how and whatever, and I love how they connect

(02:41:50):
to each other. And I love how the conversation continues.
So going forward with the aftermovie Diner, I feel more
excited about movie podcasting than I've done in probably five years.
Well what about you, Gary, Are you feeling that pumptic
excitement again for this weird little corner of the world.

Speaker 3 (02:42:09):
Yeah, yeah, because it gives you chances. Do you know.

Speaker 4 (02:42:12):
I hate to do some deep research hose for stuff,
but you know, if I find stuff and that.

Speaker 3 (02:42:17):
You've never seen hi before like they made that, which
is why I go over to.

Speaker 4 (02:42:21):
The parade world there to say, well, let's do that
because he did some wacky ship.

Speaker 2 (02:42:26):
Yeah, man, I mean I want to figure out what
what what Para's career trajectory.

Speaker 4 (02:42:30):
Was, and it's been there's there's always that, and you know,
finding new stuff again, social media is.

Speaker 3 (02:42:38):
Not always on a healthy place.

Speaker 4 (02:42:39):
And so did you find like minded people that turn
you on to the stuff that you've never seen?

Speaker 2 (02:42:45):
So and all roads lead back to silk stockings, trust.

Speaker 3 (02:42:49):
Me, And then they rose back to silk stocking.

Speaker 2 (02:42:52):
Seriously, if you watch if you watch a B movie
in the sixties, seventies, eighties, or nineties, and you do
a deep on either one of the actors in it,
the director on it, or the music, the supervisor on it,
you will find a connection to silk Stalkings. I'm telling
you is the it is the thing that connects all

(02:43:13):
the roads of all of the things that I love.
So I'm going to start watching silk Stalkings and reporting back.
But no, in general, I've always said this and I'll
continue to say this, whether I do a deep dive
on actors, deep dive on directors or a deep dive
just into you know, VHS movies or movies that I

(02:43:33):
assumed went straight to video, or movies I've never heard
of before, like whatever I group them in. When I
do a deep dive on that, when I go, Okay,
I'm gonna watch ten movies in a row that I
own but I've never seen. Why do I own these movies?
Put them on? You know what I mean? Whenever I
do that, I always, always, always discover another corner of

(02:43:56):
the world that I love, and another corner of the
world that can tap me into something that I'm passionate about,
whether it's stunt performers like a dragon fight, the fact
that a stunt performer got the ability to direct a
movie and and do what they wanted to do with it,
even if I wasn't like super into it. You know,
I like discovering that and I like championing that. Similarly,

(02:44:19):
Oliver Stone, there's this, you know, incredible director who would
in some ways define a lot of pivotal moments in
the twentieth century with his films, and you know, here
he is making a you know, I'm not sure my
father ever loved me. Faustian Tail about the Seven Deadly

(02:44:39):
Sins via a prism of Jacob's Ladder, which is, you know,
quite a lot to say in one sentence.

Speaker 3 (02:44:47):
It really is there though, it.

Speaker 2 (02:44:51):
Is all there. So you know, I wouldn't have watched
either of these movies if it wasn't for this podcast.
So I just have to say, Gary, thank you so much.
We will do this again. I hope you had a
good time. I love you. This was great. I love
discovering these films. Makes me happy, and I'm enjoying being
a podcaster again. I wasn't for years, but now I'm

(02:45:12):
enjoying it again.

Speaker 4 (02:45:14):
Yes, it supps you get there man. That that that
that podcasters are the podcasting ships. As you will, received
a lot of his podcasts, and I respect them for
doing this. That they do so much franchise stuff, and
it's like there's nothing out there.

Speaker 3 (02:45:29):
But I see, like other podcasts.

Speaker 4 (02:45:31):
Like like The Horror Returns, we'll mix something with a
new thing that's something I've never seen before, and I'll say, wow,
I'll watch that, but I want to watch the film first.

Speaker 3 (02:45:42):
Before I go listen.

Speaker 4 (02:45:45):
Right, So if you see this pop up on your feed,
go watch these films somewhere.

Speaker 3 (02:45:51):
Dragon Frights on YouTube on YouTube as well, seas on
YouTube as well.

Speaker 4 (02:45:57):
Go watch this first and then listen and then then
see you share our opinions, right. If not, that's okay,
those are new new views, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:46:08):
But I remember back in the day when we would
cover movies like Low Blow, which came up weirdly enough
tonight because of Warren Stevens. But we would cover stuff
like Low Blow and The Patriot and not The Patriot
that you know with Mel Gibson and not the Patriot
that you know with Is that Mark Wohlberg's done a
Patriot movie or is it?

Speaker 3 (02:46:29):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (02:46:30):
Anyway, there are lots of Patriot movies, but this is
the one with Greg Henry, and you're like Greg Henry,
and You're like, yeah, the guy that James Gunn keeps
putting in lots of movies, Greg Henry, Like, was James
Gunn a secret lover of the movie The Patriot with
Greg Henry, which I think also has Leslie Nielsen in it,
I think, if I remember correctly, But we used to

(02:46:51):
do movies and episodes like that on the Diner, and
I love that because I think I got into movie
podcasting to yes to find my people but also to
find my films and to find things that I'm like,
you know, there's that movie podcast how Did This Get Made?

(02:47:14):
And they cover movies where I'm like, I can explain
to you exactly how that movie got made in five minutes.
These are not movies that should be on how did
like they do Roadhouse or Point Break or Fast and
Furious or Howard the Duck, And I'm like, I can
tell you how all those movies got made. None of
those like the behind the scenes movies of stories of

(02:47:35):
any of those movies are not particularly interesting. But I
bet you fucking the behind the scenes story about Seizure
is fucking fascinating, and the behind the scenes story of
Dragonfight is probably riveting compared to how did This get made?
Fucking you know. Whatever they cover on that show, I

(02:47:57):
don't know, but you know what I'm saying, Gary, Right,
They they cover more popular stuff, right, They.

Speaker 4 (02:48:05):
Find movies sometimes like, well, they don't find that they
have They have researchers for this, which.

Speaker 3 (02:48:09):
You know, I wish.

Speaker 4 (02:48:10):
I wish my research team was as as tedious as theirs.

Speaker 3 (02:48:14):
And but they stand there and I love how this
could make that.

Speaker 4 (02:48:18):
I love the TV show The League with those people
on there, and they make fun of films.

Speaker 3 (02:48:24):
You know, we're we're we're not really doing that here.

Speaker 4 (02:48:27):
It's just, you know, we're just seeing American saying that
the faults of these films and not really dwelling on that,
because so these people to dwell on how terrible this is,
where it's not really justified, or how terrible this is
when you know, again it's not justified.

Speaker 2 (02:48:45):
But wait, well, a lot of the time when they
reviewing stuff on how did this get made? No, okay,
they're not strictly just doing a less stuff, but they're
doing stuff that I would consider most most people, if
they consider themselves a passing film fan, will know about there,

(02:49:07):
you know, just to look at previously, they've done The
Running Man and Strip Tease and Troll and Troll Too,
and Garbage Pail Kids, The Movie and Communion and The
Master of Disguise and Van Helsing like movies that I
consider Sure, okay, they have like a cult niche I understand,

(02:49:28):
but there isn't one of those movies that I go, wait,
how did this get made? Whereas when I look at
Dragon Fighter, I'd go how did this get made?

Speaker 3 (02:49:40):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:49:40):
What what the fuck, how did this get made? Like
what made someone go Warren Stevens, you get to make
a movie now, you know what I mean? Like I
want to know what that decision was.

Speaker 3 (02:49:51):
Yeah, when do you get one of those like how
you know he's still alive or not?

Speaker 4 (02:49:56):
Like one of those commentaries with the super riser and
the director to tell you more stories to drag and
fight on that severn or vinegar syndrome blu ray that
doesn't exist yet, but it may exist in like five
years or something. But you're not num right now though,
But I'm looking forward to to hearing that and checking
that out, you.

Speaker 2 (02:50:16):
Know, right, I guess so, but I you know what
I'm saying, Like, I don't know it's they They either
seem to do it's easy to shoot fish in a
battle type movies like Samurai Cop all they do stuff
that I go, sure, Okay, it's a little weird, but

(02:50:39):
I know why it got made.

Speaker 4 (02:50:43):
Like we know why all those sortain Sandal films were made,
like in the early eighties. They're built in the backs,
they're made other backs of ConA and you know how
popular that was. So they've made so many of those
movies and Matt Max is popular, so they've made so
many films that were just like Man Max.

Speaker 3 (02:51:00):
Yeah, but I felt like Dragon Fight, which is made
was made in probably.

Speaker 4 (02:51:04):
Filmed eighty nine, which was on the tail end of
these you know that that that sword stand so crazy
it was even over even it's really out of place
in nineteen ninety but you know what, you're kind of
there for it because there's lots of unique action plots.

Speaker 3 (02:51:25):
This movie we covered I forget now it is called
a Ring of Steel to where it was like a
fight to the death like tournament movie. But they were
using like like rape years and shit. You know, there
were sword fighting lists and stuff. You know, that's that's
got Joe don Baker in it. But yeah, the movies

(02:51:47):
like that, like how did that happen?

Speaker 4 (02:51:50):
Like, yeah, somebody, somebody wrote a script, and I think
in that case you knew a little bit about it
because the guy was like a like a sword fighting
champion or something.

Speaker 3 (02:52:00):
So you want to make a sword fighting action movie.

Speaker 2 (02:52:03):
Oh yeah, No, there was there was a ton of
action movies like that in the eighties and early nineties
that you know, it's interesting. It starts off with the
big guy, so it starts off with people like Sigal
and Van Dam, meaning people who were perceived of having

(02:52:24):
some kind of martial arts prowess sort of suddenly becoming
big leaders in Hollywood, kind of hitching their wagon to
the more bodybuilding musclemen of like Stallone and Schwartzenegger and
obviously the sort of wise cracking of Mel Gibson and

(02:52:44):
Bruce Willis, and they look for these martial artists that
sort of combine these talents, and you know, you go
all through the from John Claudevan, John Claude Van Dam
to Steven Segal to then you know, your B tier,
whether that's Jeff Speakman, Gary Daniels Don and Dragon Wilsons

(02:53:05):
into your Rothrock, et cetera, et cetera. And then you've
got people like Joe Lara and some of the PEM
Entertainment guys who are going to be doing some stuff.
And then you know, you get further down and further
down you keep going and you get some of these
other actors who are trying to do that kind of
martial arts stuff without quite being martial artists, but like

(02:53:26):
you say, you get people who are swordsmen who are
suddenly like, well, if martial arts has had their day.
What about swordsmen? Let's get a few swordsman movies. And
you know, Hollywood and even be Hollywood loves a trend
as far as it can stretch it, and then just
as it's about to snap, or maybe sometimes even after

(02:53:46):
it's snapped quite horrendously, they will give up on it
and move over to something else.

Speaker 3 (02:53:54):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:53:55):
Right right now, I feel like we're at a crossroads,
at the end of the kind of super harrow people
can't die rub a body's bouncing off stuff. Uh, sort
of John Wick, Fast and Furious, Marvel DC wait, sort
of at the end the death knell of that stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:54:16):
No, I think what we're going for here is, you know,
the world we're living now, and everything's predictable. You're gonna
have once something successful. You know, you're gonna have fucking
five sequels like Fast and Furious. Right, But you watch
something like Dragon Fight, You're you're watching it, You're like,
this is so absurd, you.

Speaker 2 (02:54:36):
Going I hope they never make a sequel of it. No,
it's just it's not even that of me.

Speaker 4 (02:54:41):
But you watch it and you're like, well, there's something
you don't see every day, you know, you're like, fuck,
this is unique, you know, this is this is why
you watch something like Dragon Fight, not the fact that
it's the best thing you're gonna watch all.

Speaker 3 (02:54:54):
Week, but it was. It was fucking unique. You know.

Speaker 4 (02:54:58):
I can't say that about many mainstream films today, to say, fuck,
that was unique.

Speaker 3 (02:55:06):
True.

Speaker 2 (02:55:06):
And like I say, whenever I do this deep dive.
I don't know if I finished this earlier when I
was talking about this, but whenever I do this deep
dive into whatever area that I'm poking around in, I
always find a gem. I always find something worth having seen.
And what's nice about these two movies is, while if

(02:55:27):
you came over to my house for a horror movie
weekend in a year or two and I wanted to
like show you some stuff you've probably never seen, would
I put on either of these movies? I don't know,
Possibly Seizer, but possibly not. In general, probably neither of
these movies would make it onto my Let me show
my friends some of my favorite discoveries. But they are

(02:55:52):
decent enough and good enough that they've kept us talking,
they've kept us interested, that we have continued to try
and unpack them, and that we see their relevance where
they sit in the history of movies.

Speaker 3 (02:56:07):
Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (02:56:09):
Yeah, you know they're they're goofy as well or you know,
the the other place in the world.

Speaker 3 (02:56:16):
And I think that if I'm going to start more
and more stuff like this, and I think it makes
Repallium beier.

Speaker 4 (02:56:24):
No matter how good or bad you think it is
people think it is, it's just it's it's it's unique
to you. And I can appreciate films like these even
though they're not perfect.

Speaker 2 (02:56:38):
Yeah, and and and it's odd because I think for
years and years I was in a place where if
I put a movie on, uh, it had to do
a bunch of stuff for me. It had to sort
of be the perfect movie for that moment. And I
couldn't kind of get back to that place that I

(02:56:58):
used to be at when I was younger, of sort
of just watching movies for the sort of the grungy,
weird enjoyment of just watching movies. And I think that
doing the Pangria show that we did, doing the Wings
Houser show that we did, doing some of the John
Belushi shows that we did, and now doing last week's

(02:57:22):
show with the Soldier in the Ring and this week's
show with with Dragon Fright and Seiza. I think that
the message I want to depart is that not only
am I enjoying it more and therefore I'm enjoying talking
about it more. Therefore I'm enjoying reaching out and getting
better people on the show and sharing that with my

(02:57:45):
friends and stuff. But also I hope that it encourages
the audience to track these films down and have their
own experiences with them, because otherwise, what's the point, Like
I want, I want to be intrigued enough that they
go out and find these films at least for you know,

(02:58:08):
the Aaron Hoff that it takes to watch them. I
really hope that they do, because I think both of
them are worth your time, even if both of them
are compromised and messy, and.

Speaker 4 (02:58:20):
To be to be the fine a fine source for that,
I'll explain why. Because it has become like the new
popular thing. It's become the new Netflix in the sense
that you know, people discover stuff like stuff like Seizure
on to b and they'll recommend to a friend and

(02:58:40):
then they'll they'll talk about it and say, hey.

Speaker 3 (02:58:43):
You guys should watch you guys should watch The Snake.

Speaker 4 (02:58:47):
Eater series on to B because it's there, but it's
almost like a ready source.

Speaker 3 (02:58:52):
And I don't work for to B.

Speaker 4 (02:58:53):
I don't get paid by to B, just strot it
out there, but it is a ready source of good
prince of supposedly bad shit.

Speaker 2 (02:59:01):
You know, No, I agree. I think this is where
I find it very interesting. I tend to watch films
on to B after I've heard about them on VHS,
which is a weird way round of doing it. I
tend to go, well, I have this movie on VHS,

(02:59:22):
or I've heard about this movie on VHS, or someone
was talking about this movie on a podcast, or I
saw this movie on a blog, and when I google
that movie, it happens to be on to BE. Rarely
am I just scrolling through to B and find exactly
what I want to watch? That never happens. But if
I know that I want to watch a certain thing,

(02:59:45):
I guarantee that most of the time that stuff is
on to B. So it's weird because I still physical
media is still the way that I come to things.
I still don't think streaming has at any point cracked
the code when it comes to delivering me in my

(03:00:07):
to watch pile or my recommended for you, pile or
whatever you want to call it. I don't think we've
got there yet where a streaming service actually understands what
it is I want to watch because and and also
I don't have the time anymore to scroll through, you know,
four thousand movies and add them to a playlist, so

(03:00:31):
I tend to come to movies still through physical media.
How about yourself, have you figured out a good way
to use streaming in order to in order to discover
new shit? I mean, rather than just rewatch old stuff
much much like you.

Speaker 4 (03:00:48):
Yeah, I hear about things and then I go look
to see where it's streaming that either you have a
ready a copy of copyill where you don't. There's some
some fricking guy in Bismarck, North Dakota that uploaded uploaded
this explortations gender and anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (03:01:06):
And then you can go to YouTube and you know, uh,
you know, watch it. I guess illegally, I guess you
would call.

Speaker 4 (03:01:14):
It, yes, but you know it's there. Again, how you
discover things, new things, old things that are new to you.

Speaker 2 (03:01:24):
But again, I think if you were the sort of
person who is tracking down weird b movies on YouTube,
and watching them. I don't know about you, Gary, but
like the number of stuff I've watched on YouTube and
then gone, hey, that was really good, I should buy it,
And then I've looked up is there a Blu Ray?
Is there a DVD? Is there a VHS? And I've

(03:01:46):
gone out and tried to buy that, Like, for example,
the Pema Entertainment films, most of them are available on YouTube.
I could just watch them on YouTube, but actually, as
I watched them, I then go out and try and
find them on VHS and DVD because I want to
own them. Like most stuff on YouTube. You know, I

(03:02:06):
understand that it's quote unquote illegal, but to some extent,
it's giving life to these movies that wouldn't have a
life otherwise and wouldn't be talked about otherwise.

Speaker 3 (03:02:16):
This is true. It's very true. Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:02:18):
And so you know, I don't know which side of
the world you feel when it comes to stuff like that,
but I just I just think that as long as
you are, as I think both you and I are, Gary,
putting back into the industry that you love in some way,
lots of ways, more ways than one whatever, and we

(03:02:39):
both are I believe, then I think we're good comically.

Speaker 3 (03:02:44):
Well, yeah, do you remember? You know?

Speaker 4 (03:02:47):
Is it watching a film preserving a film's memory? Yes,
it is, because you live in a world where people throw.
People are throwing camera negatives in a dumpster, like like
as garbage of somebody's filmed. They think they took time
to make, you know, they're literally throwing a dumpster.

Speaker 3 (03:03:05):
Oh, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:03:06):
And I've been in many VHS groups on Facebook where
the most common question is, hey, can anyone in this
group name this movie? I was watching it late night
one time on TV and I saw a movie in
which X happened. And you know, these people who are

(03:03:28):
preserving on VHS and DVD or Blu ray or whatever,
these movies that we thought lost in time, preserving memories
of people who are like like Whacko was one for me,
the movie Whacko with Joe Don Baker. For years and
years and years and years and years and years and years,
there was no way to get hold of that movie

(03:03:50):
in the UK. I had seen it on VHS when
I was in my teens at some point, and it
was one of those that had been carted off TV
and sort of talked about in hush tones. And my
friend was like, oh, I think I have a copy
of that, And then we put it on and I
watched it, and I was like, what the hell is this?

(03:04:11):
It's so weird and goofy and it's not I could
tell instantly that it wasn't like polished like Naked Gun
or Airplane or one of the bigger budget spoofs. I
knew that it was sort of a weird, scrappy, low
budget spoof, but it was one of those movies that
stuck with me and stuck with me and stuck with
me until you know. I used to go in there.

(03:04:33):
There was an exported DVD that you could buy at
some of the much much bigger hmvs in England. HMV
was sort of like our Tower Records or Circuit City
or Best Buyer, whatever you want to call it, Virgin Megastore,
whatever you want to call it. Ah and some of
the bigger ones in London would have a copy of

(03:04:55):
Waco on import DVD at like thirty quid, And that
was thirty quid back in like the nineties, so that's
like fucking one hundred quid right now, And so I
never bought it, but I kind of knew it was
out there.

Speaker 3 (03:05:08):
Like it was.

Speaker 2 (03:05:09):
I discovered it when I was in my early teens.
I then figured out in my early twenties that it
was still sort of out there, but you had to
buy it on import DVD at exorbitant prices. This was
obviously before eBay and YouTube and all that other stuff.
And then eventually when the Vinica Cindrome and Blue ray
came out, I was like, I'm all over that because
it's one of those movies that I have a visceral

(03:05:31):
memory of that movie in the way that people have
memories of dreams or nightmares or you know, things that
may or may not have happened to them with aliens,
you know, being probed. That's how I felt about the
movie Wacko. And now I own it. Now it's on
my shelf. Now I feel like I've succeeded. And there's

(03:05:54):
part of me that is happy about that, and then
there's part of me that's like, I kind of like
the mystique.

Speaker 3 (03:06:01):
Yeah, for sure, you know, but again, you're you're you're
You're welcome, you welcome it. You know.

Speaker 4 (03:06:07):
That's whyde available for people with that not too wide
for you. You have a copy that to show a friend. Uh,
the the Master thespian Andrew guys plays first performance, and
how how how much potentially he showed that movie to
be a comedic.

Speaker 3 (03:06:24):
You know icon right, you know, because even then he
got it? Who was cool? You know? Right?

Speaker 2 (03:06:31):
Why Why did Chevy Chase have such a fast decline
from from glory? That kind of thing?

Speaker 3 (03:06:39):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (03:06:39):
Yeah, but yes, anyway, Gary, thank you for joining me
down this interesting walk through VHS's gone by and movies
that time have forgotten. Thank you for putting forward your
opinions and responding. Let everyone know where they can find you,
where they can hear you, what they should follow, what

(03:07:01):
they should do, and why you are one of the
greatest of all time.

Speaker 3 (03:07:07):
I want to call myself the greatest of all the
time or anything.

Speaker 4 (03:07:09):
Go find h the show, the shows on the Butcher Shop,
on Lesion Podcasts dot com, and on whatever podfeeder you have.
Go join the Legion Patreon if you will two bucks
a month Legion I mean Patreon dot com Sason Podcasts.
You get extra extra material there, some from Nightcamp, including

(03:07:33):
the bonus episodes of Last called Torches, which has showed
me and the Fellas do about Walter Hill films.

Speaker 3 (03:07:41):
Yeah, I've been doing a long time, and I I
I appreciate all this good stuff.

Speaker 4 (03:07:46):
And yeah, I have a banner idea for the next episode,
and I'll talk to John about it off the air.

Speaker 3 (03:07:53):
But it's gonna gonna.

Speaker 4 (03:07:54):
Evolve some some role reversals, and I think it'd be
a good time because I've been I've been issuing to
talk about John just the film with shit on it.
I think it would have been more of in his
VHS and he could pick a parade jam, did you
first to talk about?

Speaker 3 (03:08:08):
For sure? Oh?

Speaker 2 (03:08:09):
So you have a VHS jam for me? And I've
got to pick the parade next time?

Speaker 4 (03:08:13):
Yes, I have.

Speaker 2 (03:08:16):
We're flipping it. We'll flip flip.

Speaker 3 (03:08:18):
We'll flip it this time. Yeah, for sure, flip.

Speaker 2 (03:08:20):
Flip me for real. Okay, all right, well we'll well
we'll we'll talk about that off air. But thanks ever
so much Gary Hill for being on the show. Everyone.
Check out The Butcher Shop, a series of podcasts on
the Legion Podcasts and yeah, follow follow follow wherever beards

(03:08:41):
and Cinema Beef can be found.

Speaker 3 (03:08:43):
Excellent.

Speaker 2 (03:08:43):
And Michael paray Man, I'm looking at his IMDb. He
has two hundred and sixteen credits no slouch, Still work,
still working. Do you have many movies? He put down
in twenty twenty three, thirteen movies and a TV episode. Wow,
that's nuts great, including a movie called Alien Apocalypse when

(03:09:04):
there's already been at least three movies called Alien Apocalypse.
Oh yeah, definitely, and Bruce Campbell's in at least two
of them. I'm sure, uh yeah, at least one that
I know what for sure. But yeah, Michael Pray, we
have got a lot of movies to get through. If
we go back though, back back back to his heyday.
What was one of the Oh, this was one that

(03:09:26):
I was thinking of doing. Instant Justice, directed by Dennis
mr and written by Craig t Ruma, stars Michael Burray
and Tawny Kitten or Kataine however you want to pronounce
her last name, Instant Justice. And it's got mister Napier
in it again. So that was that was one that

(03:09:48):
I was looking at. That's sort of where my head
is at right now. I don't know what this is.
World Gone Wild. Let's have a quick look at this
from nineteen eighty seven. Yeah, the nukul Ravi Wasteland of
Earth twenty eighty seven, Water is as precious as life itself.
The isolated lost Wells outpost blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah. It's got Bruce turning it, Catherine

(03:10:11):
Mary Stewart, Adamant, and Michael Perey, not to mention Julius
Carey and Anthony James. People will know Anthony James as
the assassin that Frank Dreben sticks a head dryer into
the mouth of in I think Naked Gun Too, A.

Speaker 3 (03:10:30):
Young Lord Julius Carey is the one and only Ko
convers to show.

Speaker 2 (03:10:35):
Enough, Show Enough, and Lord Bowler from Adventures of Briscoe
County Junior. Yes, so you know there are movies out
there that I think are probably worth digging into. With
the peree from the eras of late eighties early nineties,
which is sort of where I want to cherry pick from.
I will tell you right now that I have Into

(03:10:57):
the Sun on VHS, which is not the Stephen Sigal movie,
which I think is also called Into the Sun. It
is Anthony Michael Hall and Michael Parret's starring movie about
a fighter pilot that's basically Iron Eagle without Lewis Cosso Jr.
And the other guy in Iron Eagle.

Speaker 4 (03:11:18):
Well, if you want to pick rolls right now, I'll
tell you all my choices. I'll show you mine, I'll
show you yours thing the ideal.

Speaker 2 (03:11:25):
Oh gone? Then all right, what should we do? Let's
go back. I want to do the World Gone Wild.
Let's do that nineteen eighty seven World Gone Wild. I'll
try and find it somewhere. It's called Bruce Derning it.
It looks mad maxy enough to sort of peque my interest.
So let's go World Gone Wild my choice.

Speaker 4 (03:11:45):
And I have to find it again because it's got accident.
No biker leader of Albino biker gang fucking Hasslehoff is
a duster in this film, and he has a cougar
for a pet, and he uses the cougar in his
action scenes. Yeah, Versus said, it's called The Final Alliance

(03:12:06):
nineteen ninety Google Bick nineteen ninety again.

Speaker 2 (03:12:08):
The Final Alliance, Dude, I have this, I have this
on VHS. You've literally picked a movie that for the
VHS segment that I actually have on VHS.

Speaker 4 (03:12:20):
Yeah, because cool man I Ripper and his pet Puma
stands up against a motorcycle gang is a small American town.

Speaker 2 (03:12:27):
I am all over there.

Speaker 3 (03:12:28):
This is available on Prime video and to be for
you guys to enjoy before we do the show.

Speaker 2 (03:12:35):
I think we've picked another couple of winners. I really
do think. So World Gone Wild and The Final Alliance
coming to the Cinema Beef podcast.

Speaker 3 (03:12:45):
They're also starting also starring Bo Hopkins. Okay, so there's
that you know. That's that's those large.

Speaker 2 (03:12:51):
And Len sparrow Hawk. That's a real person, ladies and gents,
Len Sparrowhawks. So that's the Final Alliance from nineteen ninety
World Gone Wild from nineteen eighty seven. Uh. Final Alliance
is available on to B as well as me owning

(03:13:14):
it on VHS. World Gone Wild I probably is gonna
be a YouTube watch.

Speaker 3 (03:13:22):
I gotcha.

Speaker 4 (03:13:23):
Man.

Speaker 3 (03:13:23):
Yeah, that's that's next show. I'm excited about the man all.

Speaker 2 (03:13:25):
Right, man, Well, that's that's gonna be our next show.
I'm gonna thank you ever so much for being on
the aftermovie, Dina. Thanks ever so much.

Speaker 3 (03:13:31):
Gary, Hey Crow, I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (03:13:42):
Alk around the.

Speaker 6 (03:13:47):
Smile and shake hands where they everyone that's fine dive
into the oceans of.

Speaker 5 (03:13:56):
Fine.

Speaker 2 (03:13:56):
No mon, it's got the animals and brees first.

Speaker 7 (03:14:01):
Also, I just want to do nothing. Why can't I
just sit very little to do, keep said quiet? A
list of things to accomplish.

Speaker 2 (03:14:14):
Why can't I just do nothing? Do nothing with the

(03:14:37):
I wanna drive every back road in this country.

Speaker 8 (03:14:42):
Fed and every dynasty, the roadside attractions. I wanna learn
what makes all the music, But my ambition nineteens.

Speaker 2 (03:14:53):
I pay mind money and actions. And also I just
want to do nothing. People are often the traffics at night,
beat it get through. I got good you see snacks
and movies at home. I can't they just do nothing,
do nothing with you and time. Now I'm shure, I'm shot.

(03:15:37):
Then I'll get done not again, come.

Speaker 6 (03:15:41):
An see ever see and I'll be happy and happen.
What else is happening after his own? What else is
having a small I wanna watch all the films I

(03:16:21):
have listened.

Speaker 8 (03:16:22):
I want to read it botan books and take in
all the great hard works.

Speaker 3 (03:16:27):
I want to write all.

Speaker 2 (03:16:28):
The songs and I yet to find words of I
want to call out the friends and all the glorious cuts.

Speaker 9 (03:16:36):
But also I just want to do nothing. You can
all join me if that sounds good to you. Barely
moving in all the food that you shouldn't.

Speaker 8 (03:16:50):
Just keep the noise down around me?

Speaker 2 (03:16:53):
Why I do nothing with you?

Speaker 1 (03:17:02):
Something they have time, no.

Speaker 2 (03:17:11):
Shot, shot.

Speaker 5 (03:17:22):
To see see they happen.

Speaker 2 (03:17:29):
What else is having us? What else is timing us?

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Season 2 - Ep 18 - In the Paré Way - DragonFight and Seizure

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2 - Ep 18 - In the Paré Way - DragonFight and Seizure