May 8, 2025 • 45 mins
#561 John Kenny is a dedicated photographer based in rural England who shares his journey from picking up a camera for a family trip to building a portrait and headshot business. The conversation highlights John’s transition from landscape to portrait and headshot photography, underlining the importance of hands-on learning, continual practice, and client communication.
KEY TOPICS COVERED
- Getting Started and Early Learning - John’s experiences underscore the importance of learning manual settings, understanding light, and learning from mistakes rather than relying solely on equipment.
- Building a Photography Business - The pivot from landscapes to portraits taught John that technical skill must be paired with people skills, client feedback, and creative planning for portrait success.
- Community and Growth - Engaging with photography communities, drawing inspiration from other creatives, and pursuing personal projects help accelerate development and confidence.
IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS
- Manual Mode: Complete control over camera settings for creative results.
- Previsualization: Planning an image before capturing it, crucial for impactful photos.
DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS
- How did your photography motivations change with experience?
- What role has community played in your learning?
- Which personal project would challenge you most?
RESOURCES:
Visit John Kenny's Website - https://www.johnkennyphotography.com/
Follow John Kenny on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/johnkenny_photography/
The Great British Photography Challenge (BBC) - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-great-british-photography-challenge/
Learn What Camera Settings to Use in our free guide!
https://perfectcamerasettings.com/
Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com
Connect with Raymond!
- Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
- Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
- Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/
Thanks for listening & keep shooting!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Kenny (00:00):
Everyone can learn the technical skills or
something, but being able tospeak to someone, put people at
ease, direct people, that seemsto be what separates good
photographers from greatphotographers or great
photographers from goodphotographers, I suppose.
It's like that extra vision orbit of skill that you can't
really teach.
It's something that you eitherdevelop or you don't, I would
(00:21):
think.
Raymond Hatfield (00:24):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with community
member John Kenny about slowingdown and finding your niche in
photography.
(00:45):
But first, the Beginner ofPhotography podcast is brought
to you by Clouds Spot.
With Clouds Spot, you cansimplify your business with
Studio Management.
In Cloud Spot Studio, you canorganize clients, send
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keeping track of everything justgot a whole lot easier.
Grab your free Forever accounttoday over@deliverphotos.com and
(01:06):
only upgrade when you and yourbusiness are ready.
Today's guest, John Kenny, is afellow member of the Beginner
Photography podcast community,and he is a huge asset to the
group.
One of the things that I thinkyou hear a lot from
photographers is that you gottafind your niche, you gotta find
something and then go deeperinto it.
But when you're just gettingstarted in photography, you
really wanna shoot everything.
(01:27):
And honestly, you should.
This grows your experience andalso may open up your mind to
different types of photographythat you didn't even, have any
idea that you wanted to explore.
Today's the guest, John, sharesa lot about finding your way
when you're still out theretrying to shoot it all.
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview.
(01:48):
My first question for you here,John, is tell me who you are,
where you're from and what it isthat you do.
John Kenny (01:54):
I'm John Kenny.
I'm a photographer based over inEngland.
actually.
Pretty rural up in the NorthYorkshire, which is upon the
East coast of England, near thetown of Whitby, which is famous
for vampires pretty much.
Raymond Hatfield (02:10):
Oh, really?
John Kenny (02:10):
Uh, it was the setting of the Bram Stoker book
where Dracula comes over toEngland.
I think the ship crashes atWhitby.
I think it's, quite a,photogenic spot, which means
that I'm always missing.
when you see pictures of peoplephotographing street photography
or nice neon lights, that's whatI want to photograph, whereas
(02:32):
probably everyone else wants tophotograph nice historic
buildings.
Raymond Hatfield (02:35):
No kidding.
Yeah, whenever it comes to likevisiting new places, that's what
I see everybody else doing is,photographing the big buildings
and like, look, here we are.
I think back one time I went to,New York and everybody got
everywhere where I would lookpeople would be taking pictures
of like the Empire StateBuilding and the Statue of
Liberty and like all those justlike normal touristy things.
(02:56):
And here I am, just like,looking around.
Look at the light on that windowright there.
Like, let me take a picture ofthat.
My wife, she didn't get it.
She's like, what are you takingpictures of?
So I'm totally, I'm right therewith you.
So tell me how you got intophotography in the place.
Like, where did it all begin foryou?
John Kenny (03:11):
I bought a, forgive me if I pronounce this wrong.
Cause everyone seems to say itdifferently.
A Nikon D3200 back in 2016.
I hadn't had an interest inphotography really before that.
There's no like family historyor any, interested at a young
age in, film photography or darkrooms.
We've always kept family photoalbums, but it's the sort of,
it's, and then you have a lookat them every so often, which is
(03:33):
great.
And I think that's probably themost important possession we
have as a family, really, uh,history of family photo albums.
but I was, really keen to tryand, take some good pictures or,
back standard pictures for, uh,once in a lifetime sort of
holiday to Thailand that I wasgoing on, with my girlfriend and
me, my, younger brother and hisfiance over there.
(03:55):
He was on holiday from Koreatime.
so it was, seemed like a goodtime to actually, uh, invest in
it and, try and learn how totake better pictures really.
But I didn't, the reason I chosethe Nikon D3200 was the, Sort of
like tutorial mode it has builtin to sort of, explain the
different modes and like how,how a different thing works.
So it seemed like a good startercamera.
(04:17):
And yeah, uh, just took it onholiday, took lots of terrible
photos.
Uh, if I, if I'd known how toshoot in a manual, I think I
probably would have got somebest ones, but with a lot of,
uh, It's probably something youdon't realize until you start
taking photographs, that directsunlight isn't a good thing or
like no shade, just bright,bright sunshine everywhere.
(04:41):
Looking back, I still got somegood pictures I would have with,
there was definitely plenty ofroom for improvement.
Um, uh, yes, that's how started.
Um, after, that of, uh, that was2016.
I didn't really do a lot with itin 2017, and then 2018 sort of
took it back up again as a, justan excuse to be outside, really,
(05:01):
to get into, the local landscapewhen I wasn't at work, and just
to be outside.
That was it, really.
That was what, that was what gotme started.
It was the idea of being out andable to take landscape pictures
in all weather rather thanpeople.
Raymond Hatfield (05:15):
Right.
John Kenny (05:17):
since then, it's sort of evolved, more into
trying to get pictures ofpeople, with the, obviously the
lockdown last year over here inthe uk.
Business was shut for a longtime, so I had a lot more time
to invest into learning, whichis when I found the podcast.
So I think it was like probablyMarch time last year, I think
that I started listening to it.
And then obviously join theFacebook group not long
(05:38):
afterwards, which has been oneof the best sources of
information I've got to say,that I found out that probably
this, the H's videos on YouTube,I think.
Raymond Hatfield (05:49):
I love to hear that.
That makes me happy.
I'd love to hear, that intro,because I think that it's not.
Uncommon for a lot ofphotographers to get into
photography kind of in a verysimilar way There's some sort of
life event whether it be a childor a big trip coming up that you
just want to be able to takebetter photos.
I know that you said, you wantedbetter image quality from,
(06:11):
taking this, trip, but, like,why?
John Kenny (06:14):
I think it was, probably the, camera itself.
Camera or the, the phone that Iwas using at the time probably
wasn't that good as far ascamera goes.
And also I liked the idea ofhaving.
More buttons to play with, Ithink more, more technology,
more toys.
So, it was kind of appealing atthat time.
hadn't really seen anyone usingDSLR or mirrorless or been to
(06:38):
any photography, photographyclubs or anything like that.
And I didn't know anyone thatone, but, uh, I've seen tourists
obviously, uh, moving around thelocal town and other places,
with Big cameras.
We have, um, well, before COVID,there used to be, and there
probably will be again, what'scalled a goth weekend, because
(06:59):
of the, the history and thelegends associated with the
town.
There's like, a couple ofweekends a year where basically,
the place is just full of peoplein fancy dress.
Uh, steampunks, goths, that sortof thing.
and I've seen, photographerswalking around getting loads of
great portraits, seeing pictureson Facebook and that sort of
thing.
So, to me, it seemed to getbetter, better pictures, better
(07:20):
quality pictures, I needed abetter camera.
Or at least, it turns out,better control over the camera
that I had.
Raymond Hatfield (07:28):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So, you got the camera, you wentto Thailand, you said there's a
lot of so so photos, you gotsome good photos.
Looking back was the onlydifficulty for you just the
lighting itself or was thereanything else from a technical
perspective?
I think
John Kenny (07:46):
I think I was pretty much shooting in auto all the
time.
So the camera was doing a goodjob of trying its best and
composition obviously couldalways be stronger, but it's
not, I've never even looked atcomposition.
I've never studied art oranything like that prior to
getting the camera.
It's my, I thought probably aseveryone does, you buy the
(08:07):
camera and then you'll get greatpictures
Raymond Hatfield (08:09):
right away.
Yeah.
Right out of the box.
Yeah.
John Kenny (08:12):
without any F for whatsoever.
Raymond Hatfield (08:14):
Yeah.
I know.
I wish that that was the case.
I truly do.
That would make my job so mucheasier.
so obviously at that point, Ithink you said that you put the
camera down for an entire yearand that you didn't pick it up
again until 2018.
Yeah.
At that point, did you decidelike, you know what, I'm gonna
take this seriously, or, onceagain, you're just getting
(08:34):
outside, shooting in auto,
John Kenny (08:35):
I think wasn't like 2016.
Then I came back from theholiday.
I think in my head, I hadassociated having a camera with
only taking out on specialoccasions, not using it all the
time.
So I did, I did take pictures in2017, but it was mainly, family
events.
And, there's some terrible whitebalance mistakes, I think.
Raymond Hatfield (08:53):
Oh, always.
Yeah, of course.
John Kenny (08:55):
I've still kept all the pictures, obviously.
this was, I wasn't usingLightroom.
So everything's a bit chaotic asfar as finding anything goes.
before then, 2018, I went onholiday, with a friend, so I
took the camera along there andsort of, tried a bit more
seriously to be using thecamera.
So a bit more challenging indifferent lighting situations,
(09:16):
trying to use it in manual, thatsort of thing, but still, it was
more, more a case of using trialand error rather than any sort
of attempt to learn how to useit properly.
then sort of like coming on to,to 2019, I had a holiday in
Germany, but, it was like shorttwo weeks sort of thing going
around a few different cities inthe Black Forest, just me and a
(09:37):
friend.
And it was the first time sortof I'd had, had the opportunity
to take the camera out withoutany problems.
and use it basically all day.
So from before sunrise to lastto summarize, so it was just
like two weeks of being able touse the camera, as much as I
wanted, when I wanted.
So it was like a realopportunity to review, the
images as it went along and sortof know what I needed to do to
(10:01):
improve and then have theopportunity to work on it again
the next day.
From then on, I tried to, evenwhen I came back, I was using it
more often, trying to learn howto do new things, that sort of
thing.
Raymond Hatfield (10:12):
Was it that trip that got you, I guess what
I'm trying to figure out here isthat, you know, you got the
camera, you took a few photos,so so, kind of took a year off,
got back into it.
At what point did it become likereally serious for you?
Does that question make sense?
John Kenny (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, I haven't got a, I don't have a
family or anything.
So sometimes I have a bit ofspare time on hand and I've
always felt that I need, to bedoing something productive, with
spare time.
The camera being there meant Ihad that opportunity.
So, was like being able tolearn, effectively to create
something or to see somethingand then record it.
(10:51):
This is where it becomesdifficult to articulate these
things really.
Right.
Of
Raymond Hatfield (10:55):
course.
John Kenny (10:56):
still hadn't watched or studied any other
photographers or anything likethat.
I don't think I even had anInstagram account at that time.
I was a bit, a bit slow withsocial media.
I forgot where I was going withthat.
Raymond Hatfield (11:08):
You know, really it's, I feel like a lot
of times we either, the kind of,what's the word here that I'm
looking for?
The, generalization is that yougrow up being interested in
photography and you just thinkthat you're just going to follow
that for your whole life.
Or.
Again, something happens and youtake a photo that you realize,
(11:30):
Wait, there's something here.
Like, I can keep going withthis.
Because today, you're making ago at turning this into a
business, right?
John Kenny (11:39):
Mm hmm.
Raymond Hatfield (11:39):
Yeah.
So, was there a single photothat you had ever taken that you
looked at and first thought toyourself, Wow, this means
something to me.
I can really make a go at this.
John Kenny (11:49):
It's strange that really because I first had the
thought that, one of thepictures I sent you for the,
request, like the five, siximages that, are important to
me.
One of those is one of the firstprints that I sold.
not for any great deal of money,but it's the first time I
thought, well, if someone wantsto pay to have one of my
photographs, in their home,then, there must be some quality
(12:12):
or something in the work.
So, set up website with theintention of selling landscape
photos.
And then quickly realized thatpeople are more interested in
learning about landscapephotography than, buying
landscape photography.
Yeah, unless you're really,really good at it, I suppose.
Or you're, able to really, Iwouldn't say visit strange
(12:33):
locations, but you can, you'reactually talented enough to be
able to capture a feeling or amood in a place.
Raymond Hatfield (12:38):
Yes.
John Kenny (12:38):
then it's probably a very difficult thing to make a
living on just selling prints orto build that into any kind of
business, I think.
And was that the
Raymond Hatfield (12:47):
first photo that you sold?
Was that a landscape photo?
John Kenny (12:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it was on my, it waseither the D3200 still or D7200.
Um, uh, shot a long, longexposure with, a sea scene.
And then some light trailsleading through it.
So it was the first time that Isort of envisioned a scene and
then actually been able to goout and execute it.
Raymond Hatfield (13:09):
Yeah.
And
John Kenny (13:10):
have it, actually come out how I pictured it, I
think.
So that's why it was like a, animportant image to me because it
was a sort of progression.
Raymond Hatfield (13:17):
Right.
John Kenny (13:17):
but then, after realizing that the landscape
thing wasn't really going to bea viable option, and having a
lot of time, With businesslockdowns and, what have you
last year?
It was more about trying to pushmyself to try and learn new
skills.
So I thought the, using offcamera flash would be a good way
to go.
and then to really try and workon, portraits, And then decided
(13:40):
to try and build a businessstarting this year, based around
headshots and portraitphotography.
Raymond Hatfield (13:46):
Headshots and portraits.
I wanna, pause for a moment andgo back to talking about, the
pre visualization, right?
Getting the photo that you sawin your head and finally being
able to capture it.
What do you think was holdingyou back before that photo
itself?
John Kenny (14:01):
I think it was probably, a case of I would go
out somewhere without a planreally, take whatever gear I
had, all of the gear, because Ithink that's probably what
everyone does when you start togo out, you take, you don't, you
don't know what you're going touse.
So you might only have likethree lenses or something, but
you take them
Raymond Hatfield (14:18):
all, yeah, just in case.
John Kenny (14:20):
Um, I didn't have a load of kit, but it was
certainly heavy enough.
I knew that, uh, the angle Iwanted, the position that I
need, I need to be in a time ofday that I needed to be there.
and then it was just a case of,work more, more luck than
anything, really working outthe, shutter time to keep
getting the light trails, how Iwanted them.
Raymond Hatfield (14:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
John Kenny (14:40):
so that, that was like obviously a really big
motivating factor when that was,uh, when I was able to pull that
off.
and then I started planning,planning a little bit more when
I was going out.
So I would know
Raymond Hatfield (14:51):
going forward.
John Kenny (14:53):
Yeah.
I would know what, what, where Iwould need to be or what the
location would work, that sortof thing.
Sort of, I suppose, seeingthings more as a photographer
rather than, just like, seeingsomething nice and taking a
picture without thinking aboutit.
I just take, taking a quicksnap.
So there was a little bit moreplanning and intent, I think,
(15:13):
that's when things started tochange, really.
Raymond Hatfield (15:16):
So now that you're doing headshots, how are
you using pre visualization tohelp you get the best photos
that you can with, with that?
John Kenny (15:25):
it's, it's more, it's more of a challenge and
it's not really.
So with the corporate headshotsort of thing, it's more, I've
practiced the lighting onmyself.
So the, the actual, I canvisualize how the light is going
to be or what, like whatlighting I'm going to need or
how it's going to be set up.
It's a fairly simple, uh, setup.
(15:45):
So now the challenge isactually, speaking to people, in
a short space of time, maybe 10,15 minutes to try and get some
acceptable images that theywould like so it was a a bit of
a rocky start to be honest, but
Raymond Hatfield (16:00):
well, tell me about that What does that mean?
How's that?
John Kenny (16:03):
well, the first job I had, I had to be, I put the,
these offices up, up inNorthumberland, which is a bit
further north.
and there was a yellow warningof snow and ice that day.
So I had to, obviously, Ithought, there's nowhere I can
cancel the first job.
Uh, just'cause there's awarning, I'm gonna have to make
it even, uh, even though, so itwasn't too bad.
(16:24):
There was a fair bit of snow,but fortunately, no problems
getting there.
So I thought I had everythingthat I needed.
I didn't have a white backdrop.
All I had was a collapsibleblack background that I bought
off
Raymond Hatfield (16:36):
Facebook.
John Kenny (16:36):
Cause someone else had decided that photography
wasn't for them, I assume.
and I was a little bit naive andI didn't realize that they would
obviously not want a blackbackground for a headshots.
they wanted white.
That wasn't great to start with.
Fortunately they had whitewalls, so I could work with
that.
So I spent nearly all day theretaking paragraphs, set up a
(16:58):
private gallery on my websitefor them to have a look at, the
pictures to me were all fine,like the exposure and everything
was right, but customer, saidthey didn't feel that it
represented them, they felt thatthey all looked a little bit too
wooden, which was, little bitdifficult because I, to me, like
I thought obviously thetechnical thing, the technical
(17:20):
aspect, if you get that wrong,that's your own fault.
Raymond Hatfield (17:22):
Sure.
John Kenny (17:23):
There's no one else you can blame for that.
But, I thought, well, it's quitedifferent.
It's quite a difficult thing tosay to someone, does this look
like you, or are you happy withthat?
Or you think you take thepicture of someone.
get the lighting right.
That's the picture of them.
that was really,
Raymond Hatfield (17:39):
uh, difficult, I assume to get that sort of
feedback.
John Kenny (17:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
fortunately I, said to them,I'll come and do the photographs
again.
and they were happy with that.
I came out again, invested inwhite background this time.
when it did them again, and Ithink it sort of helped having
been there before.
So it was a lot easier to speakto people and build rapport.
And then, I don't have a, shoottethered.
So it was more a case of likehaving a look at the back of the
(18:03):
screen.
Then, saying to them, you know,how do you think this works?
Do you think we should trylooking this way?
A tilt that way, that sort ofthing.
So, trying to be morecollaborative and then spending
more time speaking to peoplerather than.
because I was new and it was thefirst job, worry more about the
technical aspect of the lightsand all that side of things.
Raymond Hatfield (18:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what have you learned nowgoing forward?
I guess, like, I mean, I knowthat you said it's all about,
the communication and trying tobe more collaborative, but is it
that simple?
Or is there anythingspecifically that you're doing
or asking or the way that you'reintroducing yourself or a shot
list or something that you'regoing forward to ensure that you
can get?
What it is that you need.
John Kenny (18:44):
Yeah, I think from, uh, actually got advice from a
few people in the group.
So, got some great tips on,making sure that things, there's
an understanding before,actually visiting the place.
So we know what sort of picturesthe customers after.
what sort of aesthetic they'relooking for.
and then just spending a bitmore time, trying to put people
at ease.
Because nobody likes having thecamera pointed at them, really.
(19:05):
Yeah.
I think that's where you getlike 90 percent of the time.
I don't like having my picturetaken or I don't look good in
photos.
So it's remembering thatnobody's very, he's in front of
the camera.
So I did, I spent a fair bit oftime taking self portraits, like
just to try and practice it andget a feeling of what it's like
to be in front of a camera,which is not quite the same,
(19:27):
but, the best I could do at thetime.
And then looking at otherportrait photographers, work,
and videos and whatever wasavailable on YouTube, really.
And obviously the, informationfrom podcasts, what have you.
so yeah, just managed to pickup, enough information to, to go
back and do a good job thesecond time.
I've done three so far, threejobs.
(19:48):
so I've still got plenty tolearn.
So there's probably somethingreally, really important that
I'm missing, uh, as far as itgoes, but it's, you'll learn
Raymond Hatfield (19:56):
that after your next session, I
John Kenny (19:59):
think the thing at the moment really is just to
keep, keep trying to get, peoplein front of the camera, really,
as many people as possible withas many different, Faces as
possible just to get practicelearning how to speak to
different people and, howdifferent light works, different
qualities of light, that sort ofthing that every time with
every, with it, with each stepthat you go through with
(20:19):
photography, you realize howmuch more there is that you need
to learn before you can move onto the next, next part.
So it's like one long videogame,
Raymond Hatfield (20:30):
one long video game.
I've never heard it describedlike that.
That's good.
You're absolutely right.
John Kenny (20:35):
You've got to keep building your supplies and your
kit.
Not literally, but like yourknowledge.
You're, uh, not, definitely notthe kit.
The kit doesn't matter as much.
It's just the, the knowledge,that you need.
As long as you have, you keepbuilding your knowledge as
you're going along, you shouldbe able to progress really.
there's a, I don't know if youget, BBC programs straight away
(20:58):
over there or if there's a,
Raymond Hatfield (21:00):
I'm not sure we cut the cord a long time ago,
so I don't watch much TV, soplease tell me, what you were
going to say.
John Kenny (21:07):
There's a, um, a four part TV series called the
great British photographychallenge with a photographer
named Rankin.
Oh yeah.
where they've got sixphotographers from different
genres, not complete amateursthat are obviously people who
know how to use a camera, andthey're doing different
challenges as they go along.
So it's, been quite useful,learning to watching how
(21:29):
different people deal withdifferent.
situations like being challengedto get a good photograph with a
smartphone, that sort of thing.
Raymond Hatfield (21:36):
Right.
is there something that youlearned from the show that you
Are either going to, or are nowimplementing in the way that you
conduct a session?
John Kenny (21:46):
the, uh, communication really, I think
that's the key bit becauseeveryone can learn the technical
skills or something, but beingable to speak to someone.
put people at ease, directpeople, that, that seems to be
what separates, goodphotographers from great
photographers or greatphotographers from good
photographers, I suppose.
it's like that, extra vision orbit of skill that you can't
(22:10):
really teach.
It's something, that you eitherdevelop or you don't, I would
think.
other photographers that, I'veseen do similar things that take
great photographs.
So obviously there is.
Uh, Platon, who I'd never heardof until that Netflix show that
someone mentioned.
Raymond Hatfield (22:24):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Is it the, the design or the artof?
John Kenny (22:28):
Yeah.
Something like that.
The series.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (22:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
John Kenny (22:32):
That was really insightful.
Raymond Hatfield (22:33):
Yeah.
If you go on, I believe, no,it's actually Rankin's Instagram
page.
He did a whole like hour and ahalf long interview with him and
Platon.
And I thought, I watched it.
Like I've never stared at myphone, like, as long as I did to
watch that entire interview, butit was to watch.
(22:54):
I had actually reached out toRankin to get, to see if he
would be interested in coming onthe podcast.
But now that you mentioned that,I remember he said no, because
he was getting ready to do thatshow.
So is it over now?
Should I reach back out to himand see if I can get him on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's
John Kenny (23:07):
finished.
four parts.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure it'sfinished.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (23:11):
And he's like photographed the queen.
He's like royalty over there.
John Kenny (23:14):
Yeah, when I got into photography, I'd never, I
never looked at otherphotographers work or anything.
didn't really know anyone assuch that took good photographs,
didn't look at anyone's work.
which probably sounds a bitweird.
It wasn't, it wasn't adeliberate, artistic choice not
to look at social media.
It was just, I wasn't aware ofit.
So, The internet up here wasterrible.
(23:37):
So it wasn't something thatwould be, we'd be widely using.
I think we only got more than 1.
9 megabytes of download speed,probably about three years ago.
Raymond Hatfield (23:45):
Oh my gosh.
Back to 2006.
John Kenny (23:50):
Everything before that, it just wouldn't, nothing
would happen.
You'd be wasting your timereally.
Um, but since then, so seeing,obviously follow different
photographers and differentpages on, on Instagram, but, a
lot of the people whose work,Maybe the most famous don't
really, there's not really anypresence on Instagram.
It's like, you need to know whoyou're looking for before you
(24:10):
can go and find it sort ofthing.
Raymond Hatfield (24:12):
Right, right.
Yeah, that's very true.
John Kenny (24:14):
Yeah.
So, watching that show with howhe works and, not how I would
expect, I suppose you'd have theidea that somebody works in that
industry at that level would be,maybe not as shouty as Gordon
Ramsay, but, uh, that, that sortof thing.
So seeing like how quiet Platonwas in that Netflix documentary,
more interested in the, theperson like asking questions,
(24:37):
more empathy, that side ofthings.
it's a similar thing.
There's another photographer whoI was hoping to do a workshop
with last year that got,obviously cancelled called Rory
Lewis.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim as well.
He's
Raymond Hatfield (24:51):
I'm not familiar.
John Kenny (24:52):
He's a celebrity and royal portrait photographer.
He's done a lot of work withthe, photographing the British
and Italian armies.
and celebrities.
he does actors headshots as wellas portraits.
And, I watched an interview withhim, by the British Journal of
Photography.
and it was really interestinglike to see where, where he gets
(25:14):
his influences from, like,Renaissance art, that sort of
thing, rather than otherphotography.
So it was just like a different,a different piece of the
toolkit, really, somewhere elsethat I had never thought to look
for inspiration.
I had to see how, obviously, I'dheard of Rembrandt lighting,
but, never actually connectedthe idea that it was from
Rembrandt's paintings.
That's, that's how, little myknowledge was.
(25:36):
So it was really interesting tothen look in that direction to
see what you can take fromthere.
Like, what is it that you likeabout that sort of thing?
Can you replicate that sort oflight or that sort of,
composition, I suppose?
Raymond Hatfield (25:49):
Yeah.
John Kenny (25:50):
In your own work.
And I know from style orindividual styles, a big thing
that everyone seems to worryabout.
And.
I think, like, when, when you'regetting all these different
influences, different buildingblocks, that's pulling things
from different areas.
That's how you sort of, try andbuild your own style, I suppose.
Raymond Hatfield (26:08):
Right.
Do you think Does that makesense?
It does.
But I'm interested to hear yourperspective on style.
I guess, first question, do youthink that you have a style?
No.
Okay.
Perfect.
So then, do you think that styleis Do you create your style or
do you think style just comes upnaturally?
John Kenny (26:31):
I think, style should come from yourself.
I think there's a big dangerthat's been spoken about by a
lot of photographers.
I think Dan Milner, mentions itlike the, the influence of,
likes and Instagram say.
if you get into it too early andstart, start worrying about
likes, you sort of, and youpost, images that you get likes,
(26:52):
you're posting for other peoplethen, you're making work for
other people, you're not really,it's homogenizing everything.
Raymond Hatfield (26:58):
Yeah.
John Kenny (26:59):
rather than creating something different, so in that
respect, I think style couldcome from, an external source,
but I don't think then it's notgoing to be as strong because
it's not coming from yourselfthen really.
Oh.
It's, I think you, you mighthave it for a bit, but then I
think eventually, it might besomething that you come to look
(27:19):
back on and think, well, thiswasn't for me or.
It could wear out if trendschange on Instagram and what
have you.
Yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (27:27):
it's funny.
I was thinking back to my firstwedding that I ever shot solo,
not too long ago.
And I remember meeting with thecouple and I remember thinking,
like, I have enough of anunderstanding of Lightroom on
how to make things lookdifferent.
So I asked the couple, I waslike, what are your favorite
colors?
What are the colors of thewedding?
And they told me it was liketeal and purple or something
(27:50):
like that.
And I was like, Do you want meto edit your photos in a way
that would reflect, your weddingcolors?
And they were like, absolutely,that'd be great.
That would be absolutelywonderful.
And I remember thinking, sweet,I got this.
And I went to go edit all oftheir wedding photos.
And at the time I'm thinking tomyself, this is awesome.
I think this might be my thing.
I'll be able to do custom editson every single wedding, that I
(28:14):
do and tailor each wedding editsto the individual couple.
And.
Now I look back at those photosand they just look like dead
zombies, like the skin is greenand the shadows are purple and
it just doesn't look very good.
So like, I totally understand,where you're coming from there,
where it's like, if you try tomanufacture a style, it just
(28:38):
comes off as inauthentic andit's not going to work.
It's not going to be your own nomatter how hard you tried.
And I think that like, If youwant zombie looking photos, I
think that I did a pretty goodjob, but that doesn't mean that
overall that the photos aregood.
So I get that.
You made me think about that.
I like that.
Where do you get yourinspiration for photos?
John Kenny (28:57):
at the moment it's, I'm looking more, portrait
photographers rather than, I didget like a small book on
Caravaggio's artwork.
Raymond Hatfield (29:06):
But
John Kenny (29:06):
it's more words than pictures.
So I'm like quickly lookingthrough it to find the pictures,
uh, to see how, people arearranged, like the sort of
expressions.
and that that's directly stolenfrom, Rory Lewis's, did a series
of books with actors, not books,pictures with actors, where the
inspiration was taken from,famous pieces of art and then
(29:29):
tried to recreate it with,actors sort of thing.
That's awesome.
Um, and then, recently black andwhite photography as well.
It's become, a real interest.
there's a photographer who,again, that I should if I'd had
any sort of education or lookedinto the industry before.
Someone that I should have knownabout called, I think he's, Dr.
Andy Goz.
Raymond Hatfield (29:50):
another one I'm not familiar with.
John Kenny (29:51):
I think he was, he's a celebrity, photographer again,
thing is that he doesn't retouchportraits, so it's all quite
real.
There's no like, skin softeningor, that side of things.
It's all very textured and,emotional, I suppose.
He's got some outstandingpictures of some, great
celebrities like Harrison Ford,pulling funny faces, that sort
(30:13):
of thing.
just stuff that you would neverexpect to see.
And you would think, well, ifyou were to ask someone to do
that, there's going to be a reallevel of, uh, real level of
trust sort of thing, beforesomeone would do that on camera.
so it's really exploring more onthat side of things.
But, For me, for my development,I think it's one of the things
I've still yet to do is ask astranger for a portrait outside.
(30:36):
Yeah.
So it's just pushing myself todo things which are,
uncomfortable, I suppose, ordifferent, and then to try and
take lessons from there, eitheron how, to interact with people
or, how to actually get the shotthat, a shot that looks good.
So let
Raymond Hatfield (30:51):
me ask you, because I remember you posted.
that you took a little holiday.
You wanted to go ask somepeople, like strangers, for
their portraits.
Didn't end up doing it.
But, well, I guess, first ofall, did you get a chance to, I
feel like I remember seeing thatyou, did finally find somebody
to photograph.
Is that right?
You're still working on that?
John Kenny (31:10):
No, I'm still working on that.
Still working on that.
I've convinced myself when Iget, uh, spare time, well, one
of the downsides of trying toturn photography into a business
at the same time as having abusiness is the amount of time
to actually go out and takephotographs has gone down.
to like 5 percent of the timethat I used to have to do it.
Raymond Hatfield (31:28):
Yes.
John Kenny (31:28):
at the moment, business wise, my focus is all
on learning about reallyinteresting stuff about
marketing and LinkedInstrategies, that sort of thing,
rather than actually making goodphotographs.
because the way I look at it, ifit's stuff that's.
not as fun to do, then it'sprobably more urgent to do it.
Things like tax and book work, Ifigure it's the same, it's the
(31:50):
same with eating vegetables.
If they tasted nice, theywouldn't be good for you.
So if it's not fun, I shouldprobably be doing more of it.
That's funny.
Taxes
Raymond Hatfield (32:02):
are the vegetables of business.
I love that.
I'm gonna get that on a t shirt.
I'm gonna give you credit forthat.
I like that a lot.
So I guess, back to my questionthere, when you get the
opportunity to get in front ofsomebody and say, Hey, I'm a
photographer.
I'd love to just take yourportrait real quick right here.
Is that something that like youplan out ahead of time?
Like, do you have an idea forwhat you want the photo to be?
(32:23):
Or for right now?
Is it just simply here somebody,let me just get the photo off
real quick.
and then I'm done with this.
John Kenny (32:30):
something I've picked up from, another
photographer is, the importanceof personal projects.
obviously photography being abusiness is people won't pay to
do something that they don't seethat you can already do.
So It probably goes back to thatworking for free thing like,
nobody should work for free, butobviously the only way that
you're going to build, an imageportfolio is some sort of trade
(32:51):
off between your time and,having someone stand there for
you.
So, sort of tying into thatreally.
So I had the idea looking for, Isuppose, story, something that
had a bit more of a storyelement to it rather than just
something in isolation.
So I had the idea for, when Isaw, I think up on Instagram,
like pages that you might followor, One of them was for an
(33:15):
American football team.
You guys probably call itfootball, but, uh, nearby and it
was, fairly nearby and it was, alady's American football team.
So it was a bit more of anovelty.
So I got in touch with themthrough Instagram, and
explained.
who I was and would they beinterested in any, pictures for
marketing and for trying to get,new members and to keep their
(33:36):
posts on social media.
So they were quite keen on theidea and I managed to go and
photograph them the other week,which was again, something that
I've not done for photographingsports.
And I had the idea in my headthat I would be able to turn up,
take some pictures, then getsome portraits with, portable
studio lighting.
Something that looked verydramatic and, and impressive,
(33:59):
that sort of, high speed synclook maybe, because it's, it's
more of a novelty over here,obviously to see the, it has a
sort of, I suppose, like aHollywood glamour, the, Uniform,
the helmets, that sort of thing.
It's been a lot on a lot of TVshows, that sort of thing.
So I had the, the idea to dothat in my head, but then
obviously going back to empathyand speaking to people, I
(34:20):
realized that when they gotthere, this is, not going to
happen overnight.
You can't really, you can'treally ask, uh, offer to do
something for someone thenimmediately ask them to do
something for you.
I think that came from listeningto Vincent.
Vince, yeah, his part, his,interview with you and then
listen to his total life freedompodcast about, way that you
(34:41):
build things by doing things forother people without looking to
see what you can get from it,really.
Right.
So, it'll probably, that'llprobably take a few, a little
while to come off.
So, it's all about doing stufffor other people then, It
actually increases the number ofpeople that know you, so it has
an indirect benefit anyway, evenif it's not, something that
you're going out there for, sothat was like one personal
(35:01):
project.
And then, this one might be atrickier one to do.
I want to start takingphotographs of, regulars in
pubs.
Raymond Hatfield (35:08):
Oh, really?
But do you have to be a regularin a pub, like, to be able to
recognize who the regulars are?
John Kenny (35:14):
Well, customers, then let's say, there's not as
many regulars as they used tobe, but we have a pub.
So I have, regular customersthat come in, but I haven't
quite figured out the dynamic ofhow you would actually ask them
to do that, how you wouldactually logistically go about
it.
Cause you can't be tracking,studio lighting around the pub.
there's a few things to figureout on that.
(35:36):
But I think it's just like the,the idea of when you're trying
to learn and to build things,it's no good waiting for things
to happen.
You have to sort of, push thingsalong in your own way.
Raymond Hatfield (35:47):
Uh,
John Kenny (35:48):
so come up with ideas, look for inspiration,
look for ideas from othersources.
So Jim's, point about otherFacebook groups, don't post in
photography Facebook groups,post in.
Family Facebook photo groupswhere people might actually be
interested in your services orright.
Yeah.
What for whatever it is you'redoing.
Yeah, just working on that.
Then I'm still intent on findingsomeone to a complete stranger
(36:12):
to get a photograph of.
It's just that every time I'vebeen out recently, I've
convinced myself that there's noone that looks, has the right
kind of face.
Oh, come on.
Do you think that's an excuse?
Yeah, I think that
Raymond Hatfield (36:26):
sounds like a bit of an excuse.
I think that we can, I did thesame thing recently, our family
went to like it was like a beachtown, and I remember walking
around, taking photos of thisbeach town, and I thought to
myself, I was like, I'm gonnafind somebody and just ask them
to take their portrait, like avery similar, thing as you, I
believe, and, at the end of theday, I kept telling myself, I
(36:48):
found that I was telling myselfthe exact same things.
Now, I photograph like, a fairamount of people, you know, I'm
very comfortable with a camera,but there's something It feels
very private, to take somebody'sphoto, and to ask just a random
stranger essentially to do this,private, intimate, relationship
act with you right there of,hey, like, can I get to know you
(37:09):
enough to take a photo of youright here?
It can be very scary.
So I completely get that.
I totally get that.
If you could go back to 2016.
And talk to 2016 John and saysomething about photography.
What advice would you give him?
John Kenny (37:27):
I would say, start shooting in manual
Raymond Hatfield (37:31):
right
John Kenny (37:31):
away.
Yeah, that'll probably get youquicker results, I think.
And also to actually do some,uh, do some research and try and
learn something first, look atthe sort of resources that are
around and, get out there andjust.
Just to keep shooting.
Don't think that you've got,you've invested, money in a
camera.
So, it's too precious to takeout and use all the time.
(37:53):
You're only going to take outspecial occasions or something
like that.
Take out all the time and justkeep taking lots of pictures and
then just learn from them as yougo.
find out what you like and just,keep working on it.
Raymond Hatfield (38:04):
That was beautiful.
That was absolutely beautiful.
I don't think we could end thisany better than that, John.
We are just about at the end ofour time here.
before I let you go, you knowwhat, actually, I got one more
question for you.
I know that you've beenlistening to the podcast for a
while.
I know that you've been part ofthe group for a while.
I'm always interested to know,like, is it about the Beginner
Photography Podcast Facebookcommunity that you enjoy so much
(38:26):
more over other Facebook groupsor online forums?
John Kenny (38:31):
I think it's the people that are in it, I think.
Everyone's there for the samepurpose and everyone outlook.
They understand that, Everyoneis there to learn.
It doesn't matter what stage youare.
there's always someone thatknows something that you don't
know.
it doesn't matter where you are,how long you've been shooting
or, what you're shooting with.
it's the fact that there'salways someone there that can
(38:53):
help you out.
And people are more than happyto help you out with, really
useful advice.
I think when I had my first, thefirst, job to go to this year, I
said, well, I was thinking ofcharging.
And I think someone said thatthat sounded a little bit too
low to them for what wasinvolved.
So I went back and doubled it.
and still got the job.
(39:14):
So that's probably the mostuseful bit of advice I've ever
had.
That's a
Raymond Hatfield (39:23):
direct, help right there.
So if anybody is new to thegroup and they were worried
about posting a photo for fear,for the feedback that they would
get, what advice would you givethem?
John Kenny (39:33):
There was, someone that I actually met,
photographing in, Whitby lastyear, I think it was, and, he
decided to buy a camera when heretired.
So, was still working out how touse it.
It's taking some good picturesand getting the hang of it.
But, I have seen that he'sactually, I think he's joined
the group now and startedposting pictures.
(39:54):
cause I said, I hope that youactually have on Instagram cause
his account's private.
So he's obviously not ready to,or not wanting to share his
pictures and said that, I hopehe's still shooting that it's
not put him off, wearing hispictures on as good as other
people.
And I said to him that this willbe the group to come to, to,
find support and to get goodfeedback.
(40:14):
Not, not just people kicking youwhen you're down sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure that he's joinedthe group cause I've seen
comments and I think he'sposted.
So, yeah, that's great to see.
And I think that that just goesto show that the, environment
and the community that's builtaround it, is a strong one that
has the right values, really.
Raymond Hatfield (40:33):
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
That's always so fun to hear.
Cause I know how hard it can bewhen first getting started in
photography.
I remember, being new tophotography and not knowing
where to turn whenever I hadquestions.
So I appreciate that you foundit helpful enough to tell
somebody else.
That is so awesome.
John, my last question for youbefore I let you go is, I keep
(40:54):
looking at the mailbox everysingle day for a piece of
cheesecake in the mail, andnothing has shown up yet, so I'm
hoping that it's gonna be heresoon, is that right?
John Kenny (41:05):
Definitely.
Yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (41:06):
it's good.
You can't, you can't
John Kenny (41:07):
trust the post service.
Raymond Hatfield (41:09):
Oh no.
Especially if it was thatBiscoff cheesecake.
Oh my gosh.
My mailman.
probably ate it and just didn'tleave it for me.
John, before I let you go, wherecan people find or learn more
about you?
And what it is that you shoot?
John Kenny (41:22):
The best place to go is probably my website, which is
johnkennyphotography.
com.
and then there's links to socialmedia and then, my other work on
that because, uh, one of thethings that, tips that came
through, I think when I wasstarting out was that you should
have a niche for yourphotography.
So if you're doing, don't havepictures of, people, landscape
(41:42):
and cars, for example, all onthe same website or cake, for
example, because it confusespeople.
So.
I ambitiously set up like threedifferent, Instagram accounts to
keep stuff separate, uh,thinking that I was going to
keep taking photographs for allof them.
So like one of them is sort ofnot had any posts for a while.
So yeah, the website is probablythe best place because it's got
(42:03):
links to my main, portraitwebsite and then links to my
landscape pictures as well.
But yeah, if anyone'sinterested.
Raymond Hatfield (42:12):
Today's action item, the one thing that if you
implement it into yourphotography, you're gonna move
the needle forward is this pointout what you love most in
photography?
This sounds easy, but trust me,it's not.
It takes a little bit of work.
I want you to start by taking apiece of paper and writing down
everything that you love abouthow you shoot.
(42:34):
Maybe you love being outside inthe early morning.
Maybe you love meeting with newpeople.
Maybe you love holding a photoin your hands, right?
The, the tangible experience ofit.
Write it all down.
Okay?
Now open up your Lightroomcatalog and start going through
all of your images.
You're not really looking foranything specific, just go
through them pretty quickly.
(42:55):
After a few minutes, you'regonna see a photo that you
recognize and maybe you composeyour subject in a certain way.
Maybe it's always at the bottomright of your frame.
Or maybe your favorite photosare the one where your subject
is looking right at the camera.
They're camera aware.
Maybe you love the backlight,whatever it is.
When you go through these photosin like this large group, this
lump sum of photos, you're gonnasee these things about your own
(43:18):
photography that maybe youdidn't notice before.
But they become extremely clearwhen you look at them
altogether.
So write those things down aswell.
And then take those handful ofthings, write them down on the
same sheet of paper as all thethings that you love most about
photography, and then askyourself, how can you go deeper
into those things so that youcan bring more joy and honestly
(43:40):
more of yourself into yourimages.
That's it for this week.
Until next time, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer you'llbe tomorrow.
Everyone can learn the technical skills or
something, but being able tospeak to someone, put people at
ease, direct people, that seemsto be what separates good
photographers from greatphotographers or great
photographers from goodphotographers, I suppose.
It's like that extra vision orbit of skill that you can't
really teach.
It's something that you eitherdevelop or you don't, I would
(00:21):
think.
Raymond Hatfield (00:24):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with community
member John Kenny about slowingdown and finding your niche in
photography.
(00:45):
But first, the Beginner ofPhotography podcast is brought
to you by Clouds Spot.
With Clouds Spot, you cansimplify your business with
Studio Management.
In Cloud Spot Studio, you canorganize clients, send
professional contracts, automateinvoice payments, and more so
keeping track of everything justgot a whole lot easier.
Grab your free Forever accounttoday over@deliverphotos.com and
(01:06):
only upgrade when you and yourbusiness are ready.
Today's guest, John Kenny, is afellow member of the Beginner
Photography podcast community,and he is a huge asset to the
group.
One of the things that I thinkyou hear a lot from
photographers is that you gottafind your niche, you gotta find
something and then go deeperinto it.
But when you're just gettingstarted in photography, you
really wanna shoot everything.
(01:27):
And honestly, you should.
This grows your experience andalso may open up your mind to
different types of photographythat you didn't even, have any
idea that you wanted to explore.
Today's the guest, John, sharesa lot about finding your way
when you're still out theretrying to shoot it all.
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview.
(01:48):
My first question for you here,John, is tell me who you are,
where you're from and what it isthat you do.
John Kenny (01:54):
I'm John Kenny.
I'm a photographer based over inEngland.
actually.
Pretty rural up in the NorthYorkshire, which is upon the
East coast of England, near thetown of Whitby, which is famous
for vampires pretty much.
Raymond Hatfield (02:10):
Oh, really?
John Kenny (02:10):
Uh, it was the setting of the Bram Stoker book
where Dracula comes over toEngland.
I think the ship crashes atWhitby.
I think it's, quite a,photogenic spot, which means
that I'm always missing.
when you see pictures of peoplephotographing street photography
or nice neon lights, that's whatI want to photograph, whereas
(02:32):
probably everyone else wants tophotograph nice historic
buildings.
Raymond Hatfield (02:35):
No kidding.
Yeah, whenever it comes to likevisiting new places, that's what
I see everybody else doing is,photographing the big buildings
and like, look, here we are.
I think back one time I went to,New York and everybody got
everywhere where I would lookpeople would be taking pictures
of like the Empire StateBuilding and the Statue of
Liberty and like all those justlike normal touristy things.
(02:56):
And here I am, just like,looking around.
Look at the light on that windowright there.
Like, let me take a picture ofthat.
My wife, she didn't get it.
She's like, what are you takingpictures of?
So I'm totally, I'm right therewith you.
So tell me how you got intophotography in the place.
Like, where did it all begin foryou?
John Kenny (03:11):
I bought a, forgive me if I pronounce this wrong.
Cause everyone seems to say itdifferently.
A Nikon D3200 back in 2016.
I hadn't had an interest inphotography really before that.
There's no like family historyor any, interested at a young
age in, film photography or darkrooms.
We've always kept family photoalbums, but it's the sort of,
it's, and then you have a lookat them every so often, which is
(03:33):
great.
And I think that's probably themost important possession we
have as a family, really, uh,history of family photo albums.
but I was, really keen to tryand, take some good pictures or,
back standard pictures for, uh,once in a lifetime sort of
holiday to Thailand that I wasgoing on, with my girlfriend and
me, my, younger brother and hisfiance over there.
(03:55):
He was on holiday from Koreatime.
so it was, seemed like a goodtime to actually, uh, invest in
it and, try and learn how totake better pictures really.
But I didn't, the reason I chosethe Nikon D3200 was the, Sort of
like tutorial mode it has builtin to sort of, explain the
different modes and like how,how a different thing works.
So it seemed like a good startercamera.
(04:17):
And yeah, uh, just took it onholiday, took lots of terrible
photos.
Uh, if I, if I'd known how toshoot in a manual, I think I
probably would have got somebest ones, but with a lot of,
uh, It's probably something youdon't realize until you start
taking photographs, that directsunlight isn't a good thing or
like no shade, just bright,bright sunshine everywhere.
(04:41):
Looking back, I still got somegood pictures I would have with,
there was definitely plenty ofroom for improvement.
Um, uh, yes, that's how started.
Um, after, that of, uh, that was2016.
I didn't really do a lot with itin 2017, and then 2018 sort of
took it back up again as a, justan excuse to be outside, really,
(05:01):
to get into, the local landscapewhen I wasn't at work, and just
to be outside.
That was it, really.
That was what, that was what gotme started.
It was the idea of being out andable to take landscape pictures
in all weather rather thanpeople.
Raymond Hatfield (05:15):
Right.
John Kenny (05:17):
since then, it's sort of evolved, more into
trying to get pictures ofpeople, with the, obviously the
lockdown last year over here inthe uk.
Business was shut for a longtime, so I had a lot more time
to invest into learning, whichis when I found the podcast.
So I think it was like probablyMarch time last year, I think
that I started listening to it.
And then obviously join theFacebook group not long
(05:38):
afterwards, which has been oneof the best sources of
information I've got to say,that I found out that probably
this, the H's videos on YouTube,I think.
Raymond Hatfield (05:49):
I love to hear that.
That makes me happy.
I'd love to hear, that intro,because I think that it's not.
Uncommon for a lot ofphotographers to get into
photography kind of in a verysimilar way There's some sort of
life event whether it be a childor a big trip coming up that you
just want to be able to takebetter photos.
I know that you said, you wantedbetter image quality from,
(06:11):
taking this, trip, but, like,why?
John Kenny (06:14):
I think it was, probably the, camera itself.
Camera or the, the phone that Iwas using at the time probably
wasn't that good as far ascamera goes.
And also I liked the idea ofhaving.
More buttons to play with, Ithink more, more technology,
more toys.
So, it was kind of appealing atthat time.
hadn't really seen anyone usingDSLR or mirrorless or been to
(06:38):
any photography, photographyclubs or anything like that.
And I didn't know anyone thatone, but, uh, I've seen tourists
obviously, uh, moving around thelocal town and other places,
with Big cameras.
We have, um, well, before COVID,there used to be, and there
probably will be again, what'scalled a goth weekend, because
(06:59):
of the, the history and thelegends associated with the
town.
There's like, a couple ofweekends a year where basically,
the place is just full of peoplein fancy dress.
Uh, steampunks, goths, that sortof thing.
and I've seen, photographerswalking around getting loads of
great portraits, seeing pictureson Facebook and that sort of
thing.
So, to me, it seemed to getbetter, better pictures, better
(07:20):
quality pictures, I needed abetter camera.
Or at least, it turns out,better control over the camera
that I had.
Raymond Hatfield (07:28):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So, you got the camera, you wentto Thailand, you said there's a
lot of so so photos, you gotsome good photos.
Looking back was the onlydifficulty for you just the
lighting itself or was thereanything else from a technical
perspective?
I think
John Kenny (07:46):
I think I was pretty much shooting in auto all the
time.
So the camera was doing a goodjob of trying its best and
composition obviously couldalways be stronger, but it's
not, I've never even looked atcomposition.
I've never studied art oranything like that prior to
getting the camera.
It's my, I thought probably aseveryone does, you buy the
(08:07):
camera and then you'll get greatpictures
Raymond Hatfield (08:09):
right away.
Yeah.
Right out of the box.
Yeah.
John Kenny (08:12):
without any F for whatsoever.
Raymond Hatfield (08:14):
Yeah.
I know.
I wish that that was the case.
I truly do.
That would make my job so mucheasier.
so obviously at that point, Ithink you said that you put the
camera down for an entire yearand that you didn't pick it up
again until 2018.
Yeah.
At that point, did you decidelike, you know what, I'm gonna
take this seriously, or, onceagain, you're just getting
(08:34):
outside, shooting in auto,
John Kenny (08:35):
I think wasn't like 2016.
Then I came back from theholiday.
I think in my head, I hadassociated having a camera with
only taking out on specialoccasions, not using it all the
time.
So I did, I did take pictures in2017, but it was mainly, family
events.
And, there's some terrible whitebalance mistakes, I think.
Raymond Hatfield (08:53):
Oh, always.
Yeah, of course.
John Kenny (08:55):
I've still kept all the pictures, obviously.
this was, I wasn't usingLightroom.
So everything's a bit chaotic asfar as finding anything goes.
before then, 2018, I went onholiday, with a friend, so I
took the camera along there andsort of, tried a bit more
seriously to be using thecamera.
So a bit more challenging indifferent lighting situations,
(09:16):
trying to use it in manual, thatsort of thing, but still, it was
more, more a case of using trialand error rather than any sort
of attempt to learn how to useit properly.
then sort of like coming on to,to 2019, I had a holiday in
Germany, but, it was like shorttwo weeks sort of thing going
around a few different cities inthe Black Forest, just me and a
(09:37):
friend.
And it was the first time sortof I'd had, had the opportunity
to take the camera out withoutany problems.
and use it basically all day.
So from before sunrise to lastto summarize, so it was just
like two weeks of being able touse the camera, as much as I
wanted, when I wanted.
So it was like a realopportunity to review, the
images as it went along and sortof know what I needed to do to
(10:01):
improve and then have theopportunity to work on it again
the next day.
From then on, I tried to, evenwhen I came back, I was using it
more often, trying to learn howto do new things, that sort of
thing.
Raymond Hatfield (10:12):
Was it that trip that got you, I guess what
I'm trying to figure out here isthat, you know, you got the
camera, you took a few photos,so so, kind of took a year off,
got back into it.
At what point did it become likereally serious for you?
Does that question make sense?
John Kenny (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, I haven't got a, I don't have a
family or anything.
So sometimes I have a bit ofspare time on hand and I've
always felt that I need, to bedoing something productive, with
spare time.
The camera being there meant Ihad that opportunity.
So, was like being able tolearn, effectively to create
something or to see somethingand then record it.
(10:51):
This is where it becomesdifficult to articulate these
things really.
Right.
Of
Raymond Hatfield (10:55):
course.
John Kenny (10:56):
still hadn't watched or studied any other
photographers or anything likethat.
I don't think I even had anInstagram account at that time.
I was a bit, a bit slow withsocial media.
I forgot where I was going withthat.
Raymond Hatfield (11:08):
You know, really it's, I feel like a lot
of times we either, the kind of,what's the word here that I'm
looking for?
The, generalization is that yougrow up being interested in
photography and you just thinkthat you're just going to follow
that for your whole life.
Or.
Again, something happens and youtake a photo that you realize,
(11:30):
Wait, there's something here.
Like, I can keep going withthis.
Because today, you're making ago at turning this into a
business, right?
John Kenny (11:39):
Mm hmm.
Raymond Hatfield (11:39):
Yeah.
So, was there a single photothat you had ever taken that you
looked at and first thought toyourself, Wow, this means
something to me.
I can really make a go at this.
John Kenny (11:49):
It's strange that really because I first had the
thought that, one of thepictures I sent you for the,
request, like the five, siximages that, are important to
me.
One of those is one of the firstprints that I sold.
not for any great deal of money,but it's the first time I
thought, well, if someone wantsto pay to have one of my
photographs, in their home,then, there must be some quality
(12:12):
or something in the work.
So, set up website with theintention of selling landscape
photos.
And then quickly realized thatpeople are more interested in
learning about landscapephotography than, buying
landscape photography.
Yeah, unless you're really,really good at it, I suppose.
Or you're, able to really, Iwouldn't say visit strange
(12:33):
locations, but you can, you'reactually talented enough to be
able to capture a feeling or amood in a place.
Raymond Hatfield (12:38):
Yes.
John Kenny (12:38):
then it's probably a very difficult thing to make a
living on just selling prints orto build that into any kind of
business, I think.
And was that the
Raymond Hatfield (12:47):
first photo that you sold?
Was that a landscape photo?
John Kenny (12:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it was on my, it waseither the D3200 still or D7200.
Um, uh, shot a long, longexposure with, a sea scene.
And then some light trailsleading through it.
So it was the first time that Isort of envisioned a scene and
then actually been able to goout and execute it.
Raymond Hatfield (13:09):
Yeah.
And
John Kenny (13:10):
have it, actually come out how I pictured it, I
think.
So that's why it was like a, animportant image to me because it
was a sort of progression.
Raymond Hatfield (13:17):
Right.
John Kenny (13:17):
but then, after realizing that the landscape
thing wasn't really going to bea viable option, and having a
lot of time, With businesslockdowns and, what have you
last year?
It was more about trying to pushmyself to try and learn new
skills.
So I thought the, using offcamera flash would be a good way
to go.
and then to really try and workon, portraits, And then decided
(13:40):
to try and build a businessstarting this year, based around
headshots and portraitphotography.
Raymond Hatfield (13:46):
Headshots and portraits.
I wanna, pause for a moment andgo back to talking about, the
pre visualization, right?
Getting the photo that you sawin your head and finally being
able to capture it.
What do you think was holdingyou back before that photo
itself?
John Kenny (14:01):
I think it was probably, a case of I would go
out somewhere without a planreally, take whatever gear I
had, all of the gear, because Ithink that's probably what
everyone does when you start togo out, you take, you don't, you
don't know what you're going touse.
So you might only have likethree lenses or something, but
you take them
Raymond Hatfield (14:18):
all, yeah, just in case.
John Kenny (14:20):
Um, I didn't have a load of kit, but it was
certainly heavy enough.
I knew that, uh, the angle Iwanted, the position that I
need, I need to be in a time ofday that I needed to be there.
and then it was just a case of,work more, more luck than
anything, really working outthe, shutter time to keep
getting the light trails, how Iwanted them.
Raymond Hatfield (14:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
John Kenny (14:40):
so that, that was like obviously a really big
motivating factor when that was,uh, when I was able to pull that
off.
and then I started planning,planning a little bit more when
I was going out.
So I would know
Raymond Hatfield (14:51):
going forward.
John Kenny (14:53):
Yeah.
I would know what, what, where Iwould need to be or what the
location would work, that sortof thing.
Sort of, I suppose, seeingthings more as a photographer
rather than, just like, seeingsomething nice and taking a
picture without thinking aboutit.
I just take, taking a quicksnap.
So there was a little bit moreplanning and intent, I think,
(15:13):
that's when things started tochange, really.
Raymond Hatfield (15:16):
So now that you're doing headshots, how are
you using pre visualization tohelp you get the best photos
that you can with, with that?
John Kenny (15:25):
it's, it's more, it's more of a challenge and
it's not really.
So with the corporate headshotsort of thing, it's more, I've
practiced the lighting onmyself.
So the, the actual, I canvisualize how the light is going
to be or what, like whatlighting I'm going to need or
how it's going to be set up.
It's a fairly simple, uh, setup.
(15:45):
So now the challenge isactually, speaking to people, in
a short space of time, maybe 10,15 minutes to try and get some
acceptable images that theywould like so it was a a bit of
a rocky start to be honest, but
Raymond Hatfield (16:00):
well, tell me about that What does that mean?
How's that?
John Kenny (16:03):
well, the first job I had, I had to be, I put the,
these offices up, up inNorthumberland, which is a bit
further north.
and there was a yellow warningof snow and ice that day.
So I had to, obviously, Ithought, there's nowhere I can
cancel the first job.
Uh, just'cause there's awarning, I'm gonna have to make
it even, uh, even though, so itwasn't too bad.
(16:24):
There was a fair bit of snow,but fortunately, no problems
getting there.
So I thought I had everythingthat I needed.
I didn't have a white backdrop.
All I had was a collapsibleblack background that I bought
off
Raymond Hatfield (16:36):
Facebook.
John Kenny (16:36):
Cause someone else had decided that photography
wasn't for them, I assume.
and I was a little bit naive andI didn't realize that they would
obviously not want a blackbackground for a headshots.
they wanted white.
That wasn't great to start with.
Fortunately they had whitewalls, so I could work with
that.
So I spent nearly all day theretaking paragraphs, set up a
(16:58):
private gallery on my websitefor them to have a look at, the
pictures to me were all fine,like the exposure and everything
was right, but customer, saidthey didn't feel that it
represented them, they felt thatthey all looked a little bit too
wooden, which was, little bitdifficult because I, to me, like
I thought obviously thetechnical thing, the technical
(17:20):
aspect, if you get that wrong,that's your own fault.
Raymond Hatfield (17:22):
Sure.
John Kenny (17:23):
There's no one else you can blame for that.
But, I thought, well, it's quitedifferent.
It's quite a difficult thing tosay to someone, does this look
like you, or are you happy withthat?
Or you think you take thepicture of someone.
get the lighting right.
That's the picture of them.
that was really,
Raymond Hatfield (17:39):
uh, difficult, I assume to get that sort of
feedback.
John Kenny (17:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
fortunately I, said to them,I'll come and do the photographs
again.
and they were happy with that.
I came out again, invested inwhite background this time.
when it did them again, and Ithink it sort of helped having
been there before.
So it was a lot easier to speakto people and build rapport.
And then, I don't have a, shoottethered.
So it was more a case of likehaving a look at the back of the
(18:03):
screen.
Then, saying to them, you know,how do you think this works?
Do you think we should trylooking this way?
A tilt that way, that sort ofthing.
So, trying to be morecollaborative and then spending
more time speaking to peoplerather than.
because I was new and it was thefirst job, worry more about the
technical aspect of the lightsand all that side of things.
Raymond Hatfield (18:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what have you learned nowgoing forward?
I guess, like, I mean, I knowthat you said it's all about,
the communication and trying tobe more collaborative, but is it
that simple?
Or is there anythingspecifically that you're doing
or asking or the way that you'reintroducing yourself or a shot
list or something that you'regoing forward to ensure that you
can get?
What it is that you need.
John Kenny (18:44):
Yeah, I think from, uh, actually got advice from a
few people in the group.
So, got some great tips on,making sure that things, there's
an understanding before,actually visiting the place.
So we know what sort of picturesthe customers after.
what sort of aesthetic they'relooking for.
and then just spending a bitmore time, trying to put people
at ease.
Because nobody likes having thecamera pointed at them, really.
(19:05):
Yeah.
I think that's where you getlike 90 percent of the time.
I don't like having my picturetaken or I don't look good in
photos.
So it's remembering thatnobody's very, he's in front of
the camera.
So I did, I spent a fair bit oftime taking self portraits, like
just to try and practice it andget a feeling of what it's like
to be in front of a camera,which is not quite the same,
(19:27):
but, the best I could do at thetime.
And then looking at otherportrait photographers, work,
and videos and whatever wasavailable on YouTube, really.
And obviously the, informationfrom podcasts, what have you.
so yeah, just managed to pickup, enough information to, to go
back and do a good job thesecond time.
I've done three so far, threejobs.
(19:48):
so I've still got plenty tolearn.
So there's probably somethingreally, really important that
I'm missing, uh, as far as itgoes, but it's, you'll learn
Raymond Hatfield (19:56):
that after your next session, I
John Kenny (19:59):
think the thing at the moment really is just to
keep, keep trying to get, peoplein front of the camera, really,
as many people as possible withas many different, Faces as
possible just to get practicelearning how to speak to
different people and, howdifferent light works, different
qualities of light, that sort ofthing that every time with
every, with it, with each stepthat you go through with
(20:19):
photography, you realize howmuch more there is that you need
to learn before you can move onto the next, next part.
So it's like one long videogame,
Raymond Hatfield (20:30):
one long video game.
I've never heard it describedlike that.
That's good.
You're absolutely right.
John Kenny (20:35):
You've got to keep building your supplies and your
kit.
Not literally, but like yourknowledge.
You're, uh, not, definitely notthe kit.
The kit doesn't matter as much.
It's just the, the knowledge,that you need.
As long as you have, you keepbuilding your knowledge as
you're going along, you shouldbe able to progress really.
there's a, I don't know if youget, BBC programs straight away
(20:58):
over there or if there's a,
Raymond Hatfield (21:00):
I'm not sure we cut the cord a long time ago,
so I don't watch much TV, soplease tell me, what you were
going to say.
John Kenny (21:07):
There's a, um, a four part TV series called the
great British photographychallenge with a photographer
named Rankin.
Oh yeah.
where they've got sixphotographers from different
genres, not complete amateursthat are obviously people who
know how to use a camera, andthey're doing different
challenges as they go along.
So it's, been quite useful,learning to watching how
(21:29):
different people deal withdifferent.
situations like being challengedto get a good photograph with a
smartphone, that sort of thing.
Raymond Hatfield (21:36):
Right.
is there something that youlearned from the show that you
Are either going to, or are nowimplementing in the way that you
conduct a session?
John Kenny (21:46):
the, uh, communication really, I think
that's the key bit becauseeveryone can learn the technical
skills or something, but beingable to speak to someone.
put people at ease, directpeople, that, that seems to be
what separates, goodphotographers from great
photographers or greatphotographers from good
photographers, I suppose.
it's like that, extra vision orbit of skill that you can't
(22:10):
really teach.
It's something, that you eitherdevelop or you don't, I would
think.
other photographers that, I'veseen do similar things that take
great photographs.
So obviously there is.
Uh, Platon, who I'd never heardof until that Netflix show that
someone mentioned.
Raymond Hatfield (22:24):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Is it the, the design or the artof?
John Kenny (22:28):
Yeah.
Something like that.
The series.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (22:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
John Kenny (22:32):
That was really insightful.
Raymond Hatfield (22:33):
Yeah.
If you go on, I believe, no,it's actually Rankin's Instagram
page.
He did a whole like hour and ahalf long interview with him and
Platon.
And I thought, I watched it.
Like I've never stared at myphone, like, as long as I did to
watch that entire interview, butit was to watch.
(22:54):
I had actually reached out toRankin to get, to see if he
would be interested in coming onthe podcast.
But now that you mentioned that,I remember he said no, because
he was getting ready to do thatshow.
So is it over now?
Should I reach back out to himand see if I can get him on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's
John Kenny (23:07):
finished.
four parts.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure it'sfinished.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (23:11):
And he's like photographed the queen.
He's like royalty over there.
John Kenny (23:14):
Yeah, when I got into photography, I'd never, I
never looked at otherphotographers work or anything.
didn't really know anyone assuch that took good photographs,
didn't look at anyone's work.
which probably sounds a bitweird.
It wasn't, it wasn't adeliberate, artistic choice not
to look at social media.
It was just, I wasn't aware ofit.
So, The internet up here wasterrible.
(23:37):
So it wasn't something thatwould be, we'd be widely using.
I think we only got more than 1.
9 megabytes of download speed,probably about three years ago.
Raymond Hatfield (23:45):
Oh my gosh.
Back to 2006.
John Kenny (23:50):
Everything before that, it just wouldn't, nothing
would happen.
You'd be wasting your timereally.
Um, but since then, so seeing,obviously follow different
photographers and differentpages on, on Instagram, but, a
lot of the people whose work,Maybe the most famous don't
really, there's not really anypresence on Instagram.
It's like, you need to know whoyou're looking for before you
(24:10):
can go and find it sort ofthing.
Raymond Hatfield (24:12):
Right, right.
Yeah, that's very true.
John Kenny (24:14):
Yeah.
So, watching that show with howhe works and, not how I would
expect, I suppose you'd have theidea that somebody works in that
industry at that level would be,maybe not as shouty as Gordon
Ramsay, but, uh, that, that sortof thing.
So seeing like how quiet Platonwas in that Netflix documentary,
more interested in the, theperson like asking questions,
(24:37):
more empathy, that side ofthings.
it's a similar thing.
There's another photographer whoI was hoping to do a workshop
with last year that got,obviously cancelled called Rory
Lewis.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim as well.
He's
Raymond Hatfield (24:51):
I'm not familiar.
John Kenny (24:52):
He's a celebrity and royal portrait photographer.
He's done a lot of work withthe, photographing the British
and Italian armies.
and celebrities.
he does actors headshots as wellas portraits.
And, I watched an interview withhim, by the British Journal of
Photography.
and it was really interestinglike to see where, where he gets
(25:14):
his influences from, like,Renaissance art, that sort of
thing, rather than otherphotography.
So it was just like a different,a different piece of the
toolkit, really, somewhere elsethat I had never thought to look
for inspiration.
I had to see how, obviously, I'dheard of Rembrandt lighting,
but, never actually connectedthe idea that it was from
Rembrandt's paintings.
That's, that's how, little myknowledge was.
(25:36):
So it was really interesting tothen look in that direction to
see what you can take fromthere.
Like, what is it that you likeabout that sort of thing?
Can you replicate that sort oflight or that sort of,
composition, I suppose?
Raymond Hatfield (25:49):
Yeah.
John Kenny (25:50):
In your own work.
And I know from style orindividual styles, a big thing
that everyone seems to worryabout.
And.
I think, like, when, when you'regetting all these different
influences, different buildingblocks, that's pulling things
from different areas.
That's how you sort of, try andbuild your own style, I suppose.
Raymond Hatfield (26:08):
Right.
Do you think Does that makesense?
It does.
But I'm interested to hear yourperspective on style.
I guess, first question, do youthink that you have a style?
No.
Okay.
Perfect.
So then, do you think that styleis Do you create your style or
do you think style just comes upnaturally?
John Kenny (26:31):
I think, style should come from yourself.
I think there's a big dangerthat's been spoken about by a
lot of photographers.
I think Dan Milner, mentions itlike the, the influence of,
likes and Instagram say.
if you get into it too early andstart, start worrying about
likes, you sort of, and youpost, images that you get likes,
(26:52):
you're posting for other peoplethen, you're making work for
other people, you're not really,it's homogenizing everything.
Raymond Hatfield (26:58):
Yeah.
John Kenny (26:59):
rather than creating something different, so in that
respect, I think style couldcome from, an external source,
but I don't think then it's notgoing to be as strong because
it's not coming from yourselfthen really.
Oh.
It's, I think you, you mighthave it for a bit, but then I
think eventually, it might besomething that you come to look
(27:19):
back on and think, well, thiswasn't for me or.
It could wear out if trendschange on Instagram and what
have you.
Yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (27:27):
it's funny.
I was thinking back to my firstwedding that I ever shot solo,
not too long ago.
And I remember meeting with thecouple and I remember thinking,
like, I have enough of anunderstanding of Lightroom on
how to make things lookdifferent.
So I asked the couple, I waslike, what are your favorite
colors?
What are the colors of thewedding?
And they told me it was liketeal and purple or something
(27:50):
like that.
And I was like, Do you want meto edit your photos in a way
that would reflect, your weddingcolors?
And they were like, absolutely,that'd be great.
That would be absolutelywonderful.
And I remember thinking, sweet,I got this.
And I went to go edit all oftheir wedding photos.
And at the time I'm thinking tomyself, this is awesome.
I think this might be my thing.
I'll be able to do custom editson every single wedding, that I
(28:14):
do and tailor each wedding editsto the individual couple.
And.
Now I look back at those photosand they just look like dead
zombies, like the skin is greenand the shadows are purple and
it just doesn't look very good.
So like, I totally understand,where you're coming from there,
where it's like, if you try tomanufacture a style, it just
(28:38):
comes off as inauthentic andit's not going to work.
It's not going to be your own nomatter how hard you tried.
And I think that like, If youwant zombie looking photos, I
think that I did a pretty goodjob, but that doesn't mean that
overall that the photos aregood.
So I get that.
You made me think about that.
I like that.
Where do you get yourinspiration for photos?
John Kenny (28:57):
at the moment it's, I'm looking more, portrait
photographers rather than, I didget like a small book on
Caravaggio's artwork.
Raymond Hatfield (29:06):
But
John Kenny (29:06):
it's more words than pictures.
So I'm like quickly lookingthrough it to find the pictures,
uh, to see how, people arearranged, like the sort of
expressions.
and that that's directly stolenfrom, Rory Lewis's, did a series
of books with actors, not books,pictures with actors, where the
inspiration was taken from,famous pieces of art and then
(29:29):
tried to recreate it with,actors sort of thing.
That's awesome.
Um, and then, recently black andwhite photography as well.
It's become, a real interest.
there's a photographer who,again, that I should if I'd had
any sort of education or lookedinto the industry before.
Someone that I should have knownabout called, I think he's, Dr.
Andy Goz.
Raymond Hatfield (29:50):
another one I'm not familiar with.
John Kenny (29:51):
I think he was, he's a celebrity, photographer again,
thing is that he doesn't retouchportraits, so it's all quite
real.
There's no like, skin softeningor, that side of things.
It's all very textured and,emotional, I suppose.
He's got some outstandingpictures of some, great
celebrities like Harrison Ford,pulling funny faces, that sort
(30:13):
of thing.
just stuff that you would neverexpect to see.
And you would think, well, ifyou were to ask someone to do
that, there's going to be a reallevel of, uh, real level of
trust sort of thing, beforesomeone would do that on camera.
so it's really exploring more onthat side of things.
But, For me, for my development,I think it's one of the things
I've still yet to do is ask astranger for a portrait outside.
(30:36):
Yeah.
So it's just pushing myself todo things which are,
uncomfortable, I suppose, ordifferent, and then to try and
take lessons from there, eitheron how, to interact with people
or, how to actually get the shotthat, a shot that looks good.
So let
Raymond Hatfield (30:51):
me ask you, because I remember you posted.
that you took a little holiday.
You wanted to go ask somepeople, like strangers, for
their portraits.
Didn't end up doing it.
But, well, I guess, first ofall, did you get a chance to, I
feel like I remember seeing thatyou, did finally find somebody
to photograph.
Is that right?
You're still working on that?
John Kenny (31:10):
No, I'm still working on that.
Still working on that.
I've convinced myself when Iget, uh, spare time, well, one
of the downsides of trying toturn photography into a business
at the same time as having abusiness is the amount of time
to actually go out and takephotographs has gone down.
to like 5 percent of the timethat I used to have to do it.
Raymond Hatfield (31:28):
Yes.
John Kenny (31:28):
at the moment, business wise, my focus is all
on learning about reallyinteresting stuff about
marketing and LinkedInstrategies, that sort of thing,
rather than actually making goodphotographs.
because the way I look at it, ifit's stuff that's.
not as fun to do, then it'sprobably more urgent to do it.
Things like tax and book work, Ifigure it's the same, it's the
(31:50):
same with eating vegetables.
If they tasted nice, theywouldn't be good for you.
So if it's not fun, I shouldprobably be doing more of it.
That's funny.
Taxes
Raymond Hatfield (32:02):
are the vegetables of business.
I love that.
I'm gonna get that on a t shirt.
I'm gonna give you credit forthat.
I like that a lot.
So I guess, back to my questionthere, when you get the
opportunity to get in front ofsomebody and say, Hey, I'm a
photographer.
I'd love to just take yourportrait real quick right here.
Is that something that like youplan out ahead of time?
Like, do you have an idea forwhat you want the photo to be?
(32:23):
Or for right now?
Is it just simply here somebody,let me just get the photo off
real quick.
and then I'm done with this.
John Kenny (32:30):
something I've picked up from, another
photographer is, the importanceof personal projects.
obviously photography being abusiness is people won't pay to
do something that they don't seethat you can already do.
So It probably goes back to thatworking for free thing like,
nobody should work for free, butobviously the only way that
you're going to build, an imageportfolio is some sort of trade
(32:51):
off between your time and,having someone stand there for
you.
So, sort of tying into thatreally.
So I had the idea looking for, Isuppose, story, something that
had a bit more of a storyelement to it rather than just
something in isolation.
So I had the idea for, when Isaw, I think up on Instagram,
like pages that you might followor, One of them was for an
(33:15):
American football team.
You guys probably call itfootball, but, uh, nearby and it
was, fairly nearby and it was, alady's American football team.
So it was a bit more of anovelty.
So I got in touch with themthrough Instagram, and
explained.
who I was and would they beinterested in any, pictures for
marketing and for trying to get,new members and to keep their
(33:36):
posts on social media.
So they were quite keen on theidea and I managed to go and
photograph them the other week,which was again, something that
I've not done for photographingsports.
And I had the idea in my headthat I would be able to turn up,
take some pictures, then getsome portraits with, portable
studio lighting.
Something that looked verydramatic and, and impressive,
(33:59):
that sort of, high speed synclook maybe, because it's, it's
more of a novelty over here,obviously to see the, it has a
sort of, I suppose, like aHollywood glamour, the, Uniform,
the helmets, that sort of thing.
It's been a lot on a lot of TVshows, that sort of thing.
So I had the, the idea to dothat in my head, but then
obviously going back to empathyand speaking to people, I
(34:20):
realized that when they gotthere, this is, not going to
happen overnight.
You can't really, you can'treally ask, uh, offer to do
something for someone thenimmediately ask them to do
something for you.
I think that came from listeningto Vincent.
Vince, yeah, his part, his,interview with you and then
listen to his total life freedompodcast about, way that you
(34:41):
build things by doing things forother people without looking to
see what you can get from it,really.
Right.
So, it'll probably, that'llprobably take a few, a little
while to come off.
So, it's all about doing stufffor other people then, It
actually increases the number ofpeople that know you, so it has
an indirect benefit anyway, evenif it's not, something that
you're going out there for, sothat was like one personal
(35:01):
project.
And then, this one might be atrickier one to do.
I want to start takingphotographs of, regulars in
pubs.
Raymond Hatfield (35:08):
Oh, really?
But do you have to be a regularin a pub, like, to be able to
recognize who the regulars are?
John Kenny (35:14):
Well, customers, then let's say, there's not as
many regulars as they used tobe, but we have a pub.
So I have, regular customersthat come in, but I haven't
quite figured out the dynamic ofhow you would actually ask them
to do that, how you wouldactually logistically go about
it.
Cause you can't be tracking,studio lighting around the pub.
there's a few things to figureout on that.
(35:36):
But I think it's just like the,the idea of when you're trying
to learn and to build things,it's no good waiting for things
to happen.
You have to sort of, push thingsalong in your own way.
Raymond Hatfield (35:47):
Uh,
John Kenny (35:48):
so come up with ideas, look for inspiration,
look for ideas from othersources.
So Jim's, point about otherFacebook groups, don't post in
photography Facebook groups,post in.
Family Facebook photo groupswhere people might actually be
interested in your services orright.
Yeah.
What for whatever it is you'redoing.
Yeah, just working on that.
Then I'm still intent on findingsomeone to a complete stranger
(36:12):
to get a photograph of.
It's just that every time I'vebeen out recently, I've
convinced myself that there's noone that looks, has the right
kind of face.
Oh, come on.
Do you think that's an excuse?
Yeah, I think that
Raymond Hatfield (36:26):
sounds like a bit of an excuse.
I think that we can, I did thesame thing recently, our family
went to like it was like a beachtown, and I remember walking
around, taking photos of thisbeach town, and I thought to
myself, I was like, I'm gonnafind somebody and just ask them
to take their portrait, like avery similar, thing as you, I
believe, and, at the end of theday, I kept telling myself, I
(36:48):
found that I was telling myselfthe exact same things.
Now, I photograph like, a fairamount of people, you know, I'm
very comfortable with a camera,but there's something It feels
very private, to take somebody'sphoto, and to ask just a random
stranger essentially to do this,private, intimate, relationship
act with you right there of,hey, like, can I get to know you
(37:09):
enough to take a photo of youright here?
It can be very scary.
So I completely get that.
I totally get that.
If you could go back to 2016.
And talk to 2016 John and saysomething about photography.
What advice would you give him?
John Kenny (37:27):
I would say, start shooting in manual
Raymond Hatfield (37:31):
right
John Kenny (37:31):
away.
Yeah, that'll probably get youquicker results, I think.
And also to actually do some,uh, do some research and try and
learn something first, look atthe sort of resources that are
around and, get out there andjust.
Just to keep shooting.
Don't think that you've got,you've invested, money in a
camera.
So, it's too precious to takeout and use all the time.
(37:53):
You're only going to take outspecial occasions or something
like that.
Take out all the time and justkeep taking lots of pictures and
then just learn from them as yougo.
find out what you like and just,keep working on it.
Raymond Hatfield (38:04):
That was beautiful.
That was absolutely beautiful.
I don't think we could end thisany better than that, John.
We are just about at the end ofour time here.
before I let you go, you knowwhat, actually, I got one more
question for you.
I know that you've beenlistening to the podcast for a
while.
I know that you've been part ofthe group for a while.
I'm always interested to know,like, is it about the Beginner
Photography Podcast Facebookcommunity that you enjoy so much
(38:26):
more over other Facebook groupsor online forums?
John Kenny (38:31):
I think it's the people that are in it, I think.
Everyone's there for the samepurpose and everyone outlook.
They understand that, Everyoneis there to learn.
It doesn't matter what stage youare.
there's always someone thatknows something that you don't
know.
it doesn't matter where you are,how long you've been shooting
or, what you're shooting with.
it's the fact that there'salways someone there that can
(38:53):
help you out.
And people are more than happyto help you out with, really
useful advice.
I think when I had my first, thefirst, job to go to this year, I
said, well, I was thinking ofcharging.
And I think someone said thatthat sounded a little bit too
low to them for what wasinvolved.
So I went back and doubled it.
and still got the job.
(39:14):
So that's probably the mostuseful bit of advice I've ever
had.
That's a
Raymond Hatfield (39:23):
direct, help right there.
So if anybody is new to thegroup and they were worried
about posting a photo for fear,for the feedback that they would
get, what advice would you givethem?
John Kenny (39:33):
There was, someone that I actually met,
photographing in, Whitby lastyear, I think it was, and, he
decided to buy a camera when heretired.
So, was still working out how touse it.
It's taking some good picturesand getting the hang of it.
But, I have seen that he'sactually, I think he's joined
the group now and startedposting pictures.
(39:54):
cause I said, I hope that youactually have on Instagram cause
his account's private.
So he's obviously not ready to,or not wanting to share his
pictures and said that, I hopehe's still shooting that it's
not put him off, wearing hispictures on as good as other
people.
And I said to him that this willbe the group to come to, to,
find support and to get goodfeedback.
(40:14):
Not, not just people kicking youwhen you're down sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure that he's joinedthe group cause I've seen
comments and I think he'sposted.
So, yeah, that's great to see.
And I think that that just goesto show that the, environment
and the community that's builtaround it, is a strong one that
has the right values, really.
Raymond Hatfield (40:33):
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
That's always so fun to hear.
Cause I know how hard it can bewhen first getting started in
photography.
I remember, being new tophotography and not knowing
where to turn whenever I hadquestions.
So I appreciate that you foundit helpful enough to tell
somebody else.
That is so awesome.
John, my last question for youbefore I let you go is, I keep
(40:54):
looking at the mailbox everysingle day for a piece of
cheesecake in the mail, andnothing has shown up yet, so I'm
hoping that it's gonna be heresoon, is that right?
John Kenny (41:05):
Definitely.
Yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (41:06):
it's good.
You can't, you can't
John Kenny (41:07):
trust the post service.
Raymond Hatfield (41:09):
Oh no.
Especially if it was thatBiscoff cheesecake.
Oh my gosh.
My mailman.
probably ate it and just didn'tleave it for me.
John, before I let you go, wherecan people find or learn more
about you?
And what it is that you shoot?
John Kenny (41:22):
The best place to go is probably my website, which is
johnkennyphotography.
com.
and then there's links to socialmedia and then, my other work on
that because, uh, one of thethings that, tips that came
through, I think when I wasstarting out was that you should
have a niche for yourphotography.
So if you're doing, don't havepictures of, people, landscape
(41:42):
and cars, for example, all onthe same website or cake, for
example, because it confusespeople.
So.
I ambitiously set up like threedifferent, Instagram accounts to
keep stuff separate, uh,thinking that I was going to
keep taking photographs for allof them.
So like one of them is sort ofnot had any posts for a while.
So yeah, the website is probablythe best place because it's got
(42:03):
links to my main, portraitwebsite and then links to my
landscape pictures as well.
But yeah, if anyone'sinterested.
Raymond Hatfield (42:12):
Today's action item, the one thing that if you
implement it into yourphotography, you're gonna move
the needle forward is this pointout what you love most in
photography?
This sounds easy, but trust me,it's not.
It takes a little bit of work.
I want you to start by taking apiece of paper and writing down
everything that you love abouthow you shoot.
(42:34):
Maybe you love being outside inthe early morning.
Maybe you love meeting with newpeople.
Maybe you love holding a photoin your hands, right?
The, the tangible experience ofit.
Write it all down.
Okay?
Now open up your Lightroomcatalog and start going through
all of your images.
You're not really looking foranything specific, just go
through them pretty quickly.
(42:55):
After a few minutes, you'regonna see a photo that you
recognize and maybe you composeyour subject in a certain way.
Maybe it's always at the bottomright of your frame.
Or maybe your favorite photosare the one where your subject
is looking right at the camera.
They're camera aware.
Maybe you love the backlight,whatever it is.
When you go through these photosin like this large group, this
lump sum of photos, you're gonnasee these things about your own
(43:18):
photography that maybe youdidn't notice before.
But they become extremely clearwhen you look at them
altogether.
So write those things down aswell.
And then take those handful ofthings, write them down on the
same sheet of paper as all thethings that you love most about
photography, and then askyourself, how can you go deeper
into those things so that youcan bring more joy and honestly
(43:40):
more of yourself into yourimages.
That's it for this week.
Until next time, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer you'llbe tomorrow.
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