What happens when opposites don’t attract—but collide?
In this candid and unfiltered episode, Pastor Mike and Pastor Julie Signorelli open up about the real challenges they’ve faced in over 20 years of marriage. From clashing backgrounds and early conflict to building trust and learning to communicate, they unpack the process of becoming compatible—not just hoping for it.
If you’ve ever questioned your relationship, struggled with unmet expectations, or wondered how to make it work when it feels like you’re worlds apart, this conversation is for you.
- Respect and security: what men and women actually want
- When trauma from your past shows up in your marriage
- The dangers of familiarity and the power of intentionality
- How honor and humility build lasting trust
- Why strong marriages are built, not found
Marriage isn’t about finding the perfect person—it’s about letting God perfect both of you in the process.
📲 Get equipped at www.mikesignorelli.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
Hey.
So I'm here with my lovelywife Julie, and we're going to be
talking about what men andwomen really want today.
We're going to talk about menwant respect and admiration and women
want security.
And they're back tickled.
Play with my hair.
(00:54):
Okay, so we're going to have avery vulnerable conversation.
I just want everybody to knowthis is going to heal your marriage.
And, and then also if you'relike single, this is going to prepare
you for marriage.
But here's where it gets juicy.
We did not pre prepare for this.
No, we did not like this.
And because I wanted it to bevulnerable and I wanted people to
watch me.
And you actually communicate.
(01:15):
So there are no notes.
Yeah, you didn't even scheduleit with me.
I came home, this was set up,and you said, we are doing this.
Actually, what you said was, Ijust got my hair done.
Yes.
And my hair looks so good thatif I was ever going to film, it's
going to be now.
Let's do it.
So.
So why don't you pull theaudio a little closer just in case
you have a voice and thatyou're heard.
(01:36):
So we've been married foralmost 20 years.
We've been together for 22, 23 years.
Something like that.
Which is crazy to think about.
We have an 18 year old, whichis also crazy to think about because
you look 18.
Thanks.
I cannot wrap my head around it.
Yeah.
And then we have a 10 year old.
Yes.
And then we have a dog that I hate.
(01:59):
Yeah, I hate him.
But he loves me the most.
But I hate him the most.
And we're working on that.
So let's talk about this.
Because the truth is me, Idon't know if we should have got
married.
Yeah, I know.
It's so funny.
I don't know if you rememberthis, but like I was just thinking
that the, the.
No, no, no.
(02:20):
The.
The week before we got marriedor two weeks before we got married,
our pastor at the timeactually brought us up in front of
the church.
They prayed for us before our wedding.
And because we got married, wehad a destination wedding.
So we got married out of townand they said, this is a match made
in heaven.
And I remember after our firstargument, I'm like, this is not a
(02:41):
match made in heaven.
This a match made in hell.
Yeah, that should be the titleof our next marriage conference.
Match made in hell.
Because we're opposites inevery way.
Just about.
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis the other day.
And aside from ferocioussexual attraction.
Yeah, Go Ahead, go ahead, tellme more.
(03:03):
I mean, like, we connected ona physical level, you know, you know,
when we were like dating andstuff like that, and, and we had
these conversations about, youknow, life and different things,
but I didn't realize tillafter we got married that a lot of
it, you were fronting, youknow, because like, you were, you
were saying the things that agirlfriend says.
Sure.
To deepen a relationship.
(03:24):
And you also did your fairshare of front.
And I rem distinctly you beinglike, I love Garth Brooks too.
And I'm like, you never listenrecord for that.
But, but I, I do remember, Ido remember.
Yeah.
In the day saying things like,I don't think we would ever fight.
What, what would we ever fight about?
That line, you know, I don't even.
(03:45):
Know what we, what would weever fight about?
Yeah.
And so lots of things, but thetruth is we're complete opposite.
So if you're watching thisright now.
Yeah.
And you're in a marriage andyou feel like I messed up, I.
I shouldn't even be together.
There is a big part of methat's always thought, like, I don't
know that me and you were compatible.
And you know, when you thinklike compatibility, like we've had
(04:10):
to learn like, I think thehealth of our marriage is that we've
learned how to become compatible.
Right.
But I don't think that we arenaturally compatible at all.
Yeah.
And I will say, like, peoplewill say like, oh, you have to be
friends first.
And I'm like, we were great friends.
We were horrible spouses.
Yeah.
That's the best put it.
I don't know that that's likethe most valuable thing, but I don't
(04:34):
know.
We didn't know how to live together.
Right.
We had completely different backgrounds.
And so like when men needrespect and admiration and women
need safety and like, youknow, they, they need safety, they
need the comfortability.
Right.
Because you're wired that way.
And for those of you who arelike, oh, they don't get it, you
(04:54):
know, this is like, you know,this is too specific.
Like, men need safety too.
No, we're talking about thepredominant need.
Yes.
Because of course, men need adegree of safety, but they, we are
biologically wired because oftestosterone and various different
things to seek risk.
You know, that's why maledominated fields tend to be risk
(05:16):
seeking fields.
Right.
Yeah.
And you see more men in those fields.
And so in the same way a womanis, is built for security, which
I think is primal, becausewomen birth children and they have
ensure that Those children,which really human beings are born,
like, without the ability tocare for themselves as at all.
Like a horse comes out of themother and immediately stands up
(05:38):
and starts walking around.
And a child can't even startwalking for 10, 11 months early and
then a year later.
So human beings are bornincredibly dependent.
And so women, I believe thefemale gender, it really has a predisposition
towards safety because it'slike, in you, right?
Yes.
(05:58):
And, you know, people who tryto deny those norms are just denying
reality.
Right, Right.
I was, I saw a piece ofcontent the other day and they saw
the book, you know, it waslike, Love and Respect.
And they were like, this isresponsible for my deconstruction.
And I'm like, no, this isgoing to be responsible for your
divorce if you burn that book.
Like, the reality is, is like,you cannot have a successful relationship
(06:21):
with disrespect both ways,with not giving love and attention
both ways without offeringsecurity both ways.
But predominantly women arefind, for the most part, love in
these certain areas, and menare going to find them in these certain
areas.
So if you're evolved andyou're a man and you say, I don't
(06:43):
need respect, okay, like, wedon't believe you.
That's called cognitive dissonance.
And you're lying to yourself.
Yes.
And I know you're trying to beevolved, but, like, you know, it's
not going to last long, I'lljust tell you that.
Right.
Well, when you go back toGenesis, chapter three, basically,
(07:03):
Eve was created for companionship.
Adam said, I'm alone, which iscrazy because he's walking with God
in the garden, and he has purpose.
This is pre sin.
Right.
So sin has not entered the earth.
By the way, Adam had a jobbefore sin entered the earth.
And so men need to have a job.
Men need to work.
(07:24):
Please work.
If you're watching this rightnow, like, and you're spending more
time in video games andfantasy, you need to get a job.
Yeah, I'm speaking to the menright now.
Like, matter of fact, you canshare this video with a man who needs
this message.
You need to get a job.
And it's.
If you're not working, what'shappening is you're contributing
to your depression, youranxiety, your fear, your worry.
(07:45):
Like, get your body moving,get out of the bed, get out of that
gamer chair and go work.
And so the other thing, thoughis that men want to feel that they're
climbing the social hierarchy.
They want to feel like, I'mrespected, you know, that when I
Talk, people listen.
And so men will not go toenvironments where they're not being
heard, they're not being listened.
(08:06):
So did this is like even theirfriends, their friends listen to
them.
Their friend.
You know, it's funny becausethe gamers put headsets on and they
go on these missions togetherwith guns in these various different
video games.
And they listen to each otherand they cooperate.
Men need missions.
It's, it's really becausewe're built to be conquerors.
And so like God gave Adamdominion over the garden and which
(08:29):
was an assignment.
He said, I want you to namethe creation and I want you to keep
this thing, dress it it liketake care of it.
You have dominion.
But then also he said in themidst of that, I'm lonely.
So most of you watching andI'm speaking to the men.
You don't have the gift ofsingleness, which is why you keep
going back to fee master andit's why you keep going to the strip
(08:51):
club.
It's why you keep going intoinappropriate relationships.
Like you.
The Bible says it's better tomarry than to burn.
And so right now we keepextending the how long we're married.
You know, we, we wait.
Like I need to be older till Iget married.
I need to have more.
And what's happening is you'reburning instead of marrying.
And the Bible says it's betterto marry than to burn.
(09:12):
And what I'm saying is it'slike we have this delayed adolescence,
extended adolescence.
And if you're watching thislike you're probably a brother and
a son, but you haven't becomea father and a husband.
And we need men to become husbands.
We need men to become fathersand stop just being brothers and
sons.
Yeah.
But for me, I know here's thebigger point I want to make and then
(09:36):
I want to hear what you haveto say about this from the female
perspective is I, I got married.
But.
And even our pastors agreedthat this was a good thing.
Yeah.
Me and you are complete andtotal opposites.
I was not equipped for marriage.
I didn't know how to have a wife.
And I have always found itfunny that it's.
(09:56):
You have to take a test to geta driver's license, but you don't
have to take a test to get amarriage license.
Right.
So like you can drive a 2 tonsteel vehicle at 100 miles an hour
and you have to take a test toensure that you can safely do that,
not kill yourself and otherpeople, but you can make the most
important decision of yourlife without a test.
(10:17):
Right.
Which is your spouse.
Right.
And so me and you had tofigure out how to be married, and
we're still figuring out howto be married in every season of
our life.
But I feel like I, in theearly days of our marriage, if I
could be blunt, felt extremelydisrespected all the time.
I felt like you underminedeverything I said, thought.
(10:38):
I just felt like amongst myfriends, you know, you had battled
me out.
No, don't do that.
I don't want you to do that.
And it just, it triggered me.
And I'm very autonomous and I.
You know what I mean?
My personality is more of theleader, the alpha.
And so being in a relationshipwhere you're a very strong woman,
you're opinionated and, youknow, there were things that I was
(10:59):
doing that you didn't want meto do.
It just.
I felt like in those earlydays, it was very, very difficult,
you know, and then I came fromthe other side of the tracks, so
I had poverty mindsets.
You know, I.
And then you came from a very.
Holiday that was huge.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You had a very strong middleclass upbringing.
(11:21):
Yeah.
So it was like we had.
We had a culture clash of.
Of like, classes.
It's like lower class versusmiddle class.
We had this, like, we werekind of.
We weren't.
We weren't complementing each other.
Like, Adam and Eve weresupposed to be companions.
Yeah.
But, like, I think whathappens a lot of times is there's
more compact combat than companionship.
(11:42):
And like, we kind of had that.
But then I also don't feellike I did a good job of loving you
and listening to you.
And, And I really.
I tried to provide safety andsecurity, and I didn't probably do
the best job for that becauseI was doing high risk behaviors.
So what was it like for you?
Wanting.
So now you've heard my side.
They've heard my side.
(12:02):
Yeah, I want to.
What was it like from yourperspective, you know, not having
the security, not having thesafety, not having.
Because here's this wild manwith all this potential.
But I was destroying our livesand our relationship.
So I had, like, unrestrained potential.
But then you, you know, hadthis need for safety.
(12:23):
Right, right.
You know, for me, I grew up ina very stable home, thank God.
So we only had half the traumathat most people have, because most
people are coming from twobroken homes.
I mean, just the.
Statistically in the UnitedStates, you know, globally, I'm.
I'm not sure what thosestatistics are, but here I mean,
(12:45):
over half of households are divorce.
There's divorce somewhere intheir story.
So thankfully we only had likehalf of that.
But even given that there'sstill patterns, behaviors, you know,
things that contribute to nothealthy marriage.
And I distributed or I what doyou exhibited many of those toxic
(13:12):
behaviors, Passive aggressivecommunication, wanting to have control,
you know, having feelings andnot knowing how to articulate them.
I wish, you know, and you, andyou can't go back.
But man, if, if I could, if Icould go back and have the tools
that we all have, thispodcast, these sermon series, you
(13:38):
know, different pieces ofcontent that are out, out there,
therapy that you can just openyour computer and receive help and
you know, healing.
It's like, man, we, it wouldhave been such a different story
for us because we weren't thatsmart, but we would have been smart
enough to use the tools.
(13:59):
And so I remember like justfeeling so broken in our marriage,
feeling like, you know, I'munhappy, I'm frustrated.
And I remember going to likethe Christian bookstore and just
going down the aisles andthinking like, I don't even know
where to start, you know, and.
And it wasn't until yearslater, unfortunately, that we did
(14:23):
began to get couples counseling.
We just weren't smart enoughto start that process, like right
at the end.
Listening, listen.
Counseling isn't the end all,be all.
It is not a global solution.
The solution is Jesus.
And all those things aretools, you know, on our journey.
But for me, you did have a lotof high risk behaviors and that did
(14:45):
affect me.
And.
But I will say you were alwaysa hard worker.
I never had to get you up forwork once.
I never had to be worriedabout if you were going to show up
or so being a provider, thatwas a huge thing.
And I know a lot of women outthere, they struggle in that area.
So I can't identify with thatstruggle because no matter what,
you are always a great provider.
(15:07):
Thank you for that, by the way.
And I like the way you'resaying was like, I'm dead right now.
Like the way you're speakingis like a funeral.
Like, yeah, he was always agreat provider.
Well, but you, that person isdead to me, praise God, you know,
because I don't even thinkabout you in those ways anymore.
Amen.
That I'll take that as thebiggest miracle I've ever caught
(15:27):
on film.
Amen.
To be, for a man to be able tosay that the parts of you that were
a failure are dead to yourwife is the evidence of how much
work we've done.
Yeah.
And it's still work.
And, you know, of course wehave things that we work through
now, but some of those majorissues, I mean, really, really, I
see now that the enemy wasusing that as a tool to separate
(15:53):
us, divorce us, you know,cause us to not, you know, be together,
not have our children.
Like, it was definitely a planfor the enemy.
But, yes, you.
You were.
You did do dumb things.
Things that hurt me just waysthat you would, you know, like, not
acknowledge certain holidays.
(16:13):
It was like this.
This rebellion.
And even though, like, oh,it's just a holiday.
But that made me feel unsafebecause I wanted to provide a life
where things were special.
There were special days.
There were important days.
So if you're a man and you'rewatching this podcast and you eye
roll every time there's abirthday party or every time there's
a holiday, or every time yourwife wants you guys to match, this
(16:37):
man right here can identify.
But I will also say, you, sir,will always match the family.
And you never give me any lipabout it.
Maybe you could talk moreabout that journey.
Well, nobody on one of those.
Those things bigger than me now.
Yeah, yeah.
You're buying the matching shirts.
I turned, I did a 180.
Yeah, yeah.
(16:57):
But also, just to put somecontext on it, I was raised in an
incredibly poor family with alot of trauma and abuse.
So what happened was everysingle one of my holidays was sabotaged.
So it created a trauma trigger.
Yes.
So what would happen was like,if you wake up on Christmas morning
as a kid a couple of timeswith no presence or even worse, no
(17:21):
heat, like, you're waking up because.
And you're wearing six layersof clothes so you don't get frostbite
while you're sleeping.
There is no.
I'm waiting to go get thepresents under the tree.
That traumatizes you inAmerica, right?
Yeah, because even, you know,there's different degrees of poverty.
And I somehow was in thatlowest level.
Yeah.
Where it's like, it's possibleto actually starve and be hungry
(17:45):
or.
And be, you know, cold and nothave presence.
So then of course, you getmarried and you're with this, like,
middle class white familythat's like, look, guys, look at,
you know, oh, don't open this.
And it's every little.
Everyone come down the stairsat the same time.
And it would be.
It would just irk me because Iwas so wounded.
And there's many of you guyswatching right now where it's like,
(18:07):
does your wife get on your nerves?
Or does your situation triggeryour own trauma?
Okay, so that is the, that'swhat I wish I would have understood
(19:22):
at that time.
Well, you know, but that's thething is you would have been more
empathetic of me and be like,my God, there's a broken 8 year old
boy that's sitting in thatcorner right now who doesn't want
to be a part of any of thisbecause he never had a dad, he never
had presents, and it's hardfor him to see this and it's hard
for him to be happy becausethat's really the what was happening.
(19:44):
So you're empathetic.
Yeah, but then I've also grownin my empathy to say, but why did
I.
Like, somebody else stabbedme, but I bled on you.
Yeah, like somebody else hurtme, but then I ended up hurting you.
And so it's like what you haveto tell that boy is like, hey, one
day you're going to become a man.
And you can never use anexcuse to hurt the people that you
(20:06):
are supposed to protectbecause husbands are protectors,
husbands are providers.
And going back to Genesis,chapter three, there was a, there
was a.
You know, basically it saysthat from the side of Adam, we say
the rib.
But I like the, the originalbiblical text, it just says the side.
And so if God wanted to makeanother Adam and just say, hey, you
(20:29):
know, here's Adam and Steve,you know, in other words, I'm going
to make someone exactly likeyou, right?
Then that's what God wouldhave done.
But in his infinite wisdom andknowledge, he said, and he said,
I'm going to make woman.
And she's not going to be like you.
Matter of fact, like yourskin's going to be calloused and
(20:50):
a little harder and your bodyshapes me, but woman is going to
be soft, she's going to have curves.
It's different and it's complementary.
So the differences aresupposed to complement and what I
think when I started thispodcast, I talked about how different
we were, but the truth is wewere different by design.
(21:11):
And what happens is you weremy greatest asset.
I was your greatest asset.
Because what if, if you founda way to channel all of my vision
and all of my passion and allof that, you know, tenacity, that
risk I could literally take onthe world, we can accomplish these
big things.
So it, and I would even pullyou out of your comfort zone and
(21:34):
you would be using the giftsthat God had for you.
But in order for that tohappen, you have to honor the things
that actually scares you the most.
And then.
But for me, I need to.
I need the counterbalance ofSabbath and rest and family and making
special memories that they.
They get filmed but neverreleased on YouTube.
(21:55):
Yeah.
And it's.
And it's like.
And we have matching.
And so the normalcy becomesthe counterbalance for the greatness
where it's like we fill thestadium, but we also filled our home
with joy.
It's like the counterbalance.
So it's like.
And what we.
In the early days of our mar.
It's like we had the potentialto have this happy, healthy, vibrant
(22:16):
home.
And we also had the potentialto, like, launch churches across
America and fill stadiums.
But it was like that potentialwas hiding in me and that potential
was hiding in you.
And it was so radicallydifferent that we couldn't see the
value in it.
So my wounds wouldn't let mesee the value in having normal memories.
(22:38):
But then your passive aggressive.
You come from a family, youknow, shout out, Nana, Holy Ghost,
and we're just airing all your business.
But you guys come from afamily where there is a lot of.
Like, you guys didn't fight,but you.
But you were fighting.
You just didn't yell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was like there wastension, there was things being said.
(23:00):
It's just nobody raised theirvoice because it was passive aggressive.
Yeah.
And then you guys wereaggressive, aggressive, aggressive.
And neither one is healthy.
And what we had to do is justfind like, okay, where are we at?
In like, where.
Where's the.
The healthy?
Who are the Signorelli?
Who are the Signorellis?
(23:21):
Yeah.
And I would say, you know, ittook us 20 years, but.
And I think we're gettingbetter every day at it, but we're
on our way, you know, andhere's the thing.
I don't know if you've ever.
Well, you've been on a cruise.
We've been on a cruise together.
Although you took Dramamineand I've been.
On a cruise once.
You know that.
And you never even saw thelight of day, do you.
(23:43):
Should I at least tell themwhat you're referencing?
It's funny, I.
I think cruises are thefloating Walmart of the sea.
And I'm just.
You're going, they're gonnacome for you.
I love it.
All joking aside, I used to bean alcoholic, so God delivered me
from alcoholism.
All the alcohols, sometimesbeing around all that environment
because.
(24:03):
And that I was joking aboutthe Walmart of the sea, but I did
see a meme.
Yeah.
Of the sea.
No, there's some Nice cruises.
And everybody's going to be inthe comments section right now telling
me all the cruise lines Ishould try out.
Yeah.
But for me, as somebody who isdelivered from alcohol, a lot of
people do go on cruises tojust drink exorbitant amounts, lay
out in the sun and all that.
Right.
And so for me, that's not myideal vacation.
(24:26):
And I like to explore.
Yeah.
So I did compromise and wewent one year and I got a little
seasick, so I took Dramamine,not knowing that I have some kind
of allergic reaction to it.
He slept.
I was reading about it, andfor three days straight, the cruise
was only four.
I mean, I was in and out of consciousness.
I.
(24:46):
I have never slept that muchin my adult life.
So.
Okay, so what I was sayingthat like, okay, so you're on a cruise.
Right.
And what happens is, is as youget closer to the shore, it becomes
more clear to you.
Yeah.
But all that's already there.
It's not.
It didn't appear.
It was there forever.
(25:08):
It's just your vantage point changed.
Yeah.
And I think in marriage it'slike two.
It's like a cruise ship beingreally far from the shore.
And over the years, as you getcloser and closer, over time, you
begin to see a little bit more clearly.
And now, fortunately for thosewho have access to the Internet and
(25:30):
all these amazing tools thatare out there, like this stream,
like this podcast, like thissermon series, you guys are lightning
years ahead of us, but thatship can move a lot faster for you.
For us, it was a really slow.
You know, we were rowers.
We were on a rowboat 20 years ago.
Yeah.
(25:51):
You people take this forgranted, but like, 20 years ago,
you.
Counseling wasn't normalized.
No.
In fact.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you say it was like,like kind of looked down upon.
Yeah.
It was almost like counselingmeant something was really wrong
and it wasn't going to get better.
That was the perception.
It wasn't like, I'm going togo to counseling and it's going to
make us better.
(26:11):
Right.
The perception was something'sreally wrong and it's never going
to get better, and it's justsomething you do to help.
And then like, you hadmentioned going to the Christian
bookstore, and in theChristian bookstore, it was like
you, you could read the booksand stuff, but there was no.
I mean, we got married.
Like pre YouTube.
Yeah.
So there was no.
Like, you just go on YouTubeand whatever.
Now I say all that to saythat, like, we did make the decision,
(26:34):
go to counseling and we Did acouple different rounds of it in
a couple different ways, andeach round had a different effect
on us.
But ultimately, it was thework that we've put in.
Because a counselor can't makeour marriage healthy.
It's us choosing to use thetools that the counselor gave us.
(26:54):
You know what I mean?
It's almost like I can handyou a hammer and the nails and the
lumber, give you the blueprintand tell you how to build a house,
but you have to actually build it.
You have to swing the hammer.
You know what I mean?
So what we were really doingwas, like, we were getting the blueprints,
getting the raw materials, andme and you had to be like, are we
going to build the Signorelli house?
(27:15):
Right.
And we caught ourselves doing it.
We were tired.
We are exhausted.
But then when we step back,and this is the thing, a lot of people,
you know, I wish I had amarriage like yours to us feels like
the equivalency of, man, Iwish I had a house like that.
But it's like, man, but webuilt this house through the snow,
through the rain, through thestorm, like, brick by brick, you
(27:37):
know, we built this thing, youknow, and.
And so it wasn't given to us.
And I think a lot of peoplehave this mindset of, like, healthy
marriages are inherited, not built.
Right, right.
You work on it every day.
Yes.
And it's like, even Adam andEve is such a great narrative because
they're complimentary, butSatan comes and just is easily able
(28:00):
to deceive Eve.
Eve is easily able to persuadeher husband.
And, you know, obviously Adamdidn't lead in that situation, and
humanity falls.
And so you took.
You know, a lot of.
A lot of times right now, wetalk about our soulmates.
Real.
Let me know in the commentssection whether or not you think
soulmates are a real thing.
(28:21):
Like, is there one person.
But here's what we.
Here's what I know biblically,is that Eve was the one for Adam.
Think about it.
She was the only one.
She was the only one, and yetthey still fell.
Right?
So this is a mic drop momentfor somebody.
This is good.
But, like, even when God says,yeah, this is the one, her name's
(28:42):
Eve, you're still gonna fall.
Yeah.
And so what you've got to dois to say, okay, God, cover me in
my nakedness, Walk with me inthe garden and teach me your ways.
And I think for me and you, wehad to call out to God.
God, cover our marriage.
Cover us, walk with us.
We need to figure this out, wedon't know.
And through a lot of humility,I think, just as we come to a close
(29:06):
on this, what women really want.
Men.
Women really want security.
And they don't feel securewhen they don't have the password
to your phone.
They don't feel secure whenthey can't log into the bank account
and.
And even see it.
They don't feel secure whenyou're telling them how much you
don't like that woman at work,unintentionally revealing that that's
(29:30):
the only way you can talkabout her to your wife and you actually
like her and you have a work wife.
They don't feel safe whenyou've always got an excuse for why
you don't go to church, butyou would drop everything to go to
a football game if somebodygave you tickets.
They don't feel safe when youcan watch an MMA with your son but
(29:50):
not sit him down and gothrough the daily growth journal
and read the Bible.
They don't feel safe when youknow how to fix a car, but you don't
know how to fix your marriage.
Like, the men, like, you haveto create safety.
(30:59):
And what I started to do is Istarted to basically just sacrifice.
Like, I'm gonna do whatever Ican to try to help Julie feel safe.
Yeah.
And I.
And stop being mad that youdidn't trust me and do that.
But then you had a dream, andI want to end on this.
Yeah.
Because if you guys got thisfar, you're a real one.
And your marriage, there ishope for your marriage.
(31:20):
I do want to say one thing,though, about the respect thing,
because I think some womenthink that by staying married that.
That's respect.
Like, oh, you're lucky I'mstill here.
No, ladies, that's not respect.
The fact is, is you chose tostay for regardless of your reasons.
Whatever they are, it doesn'tmatter what they are.
(31:40):
If you choose to say youchoose to bury whatever that thing
is, you have to let it go.
You have to resolve in yourheart to forgive, move on, not bring
it up again.
But so many women, because ofthe reasons why they stay, they bring
up those things.
Constantly.
Bringing up the past, that isnot respect.
Being their mom, that is not respect.
(32:00):
Talking to them, talking tothem with, like, the, like, less
care than you would yourfriend on the phone.
That's disrespect.
So sometimes so much can besolved by just talking to your husband.
The same.
You talk to your friend on the phone.
You know, like, if you wouldgive them the same Luxury of.
(32:21):
Like, we've talked about this.
You've asked me, why do yougive your friends my girlfriend's
eye contact?
But you don't give.
You don't look me in the eye.
I'm like, all right, I'll do better.
And why was that?
I don't even remember the answer.
Well, let's.
Let's bring it up again.
I think it's because I'm sosecure with you.
Like, it's actually a compliment.
(32:44):
You know what I mean?
Like, oh, this is.
We're.
We're lifers.
We're together for life.
Like, I'm good, you know, but that.
That kind of comfort can beinterpreted as disrespect.
And you did you well, becauseeven though that's not disrespectful
to me, I literally could careless if you're, like, on your phone
doing something.
As long as we're sittingclose, like, I'm good.
(33:05):
Like, that is.
It's different for me.
But for you, that'sdisrespectful to you, which probably
is.
Just so people understand, I'mmore, like European.
Like, whenever I go to Europe,I am jealous at the way that they
engage with each other.
When you go to Europeancountries, like, I'm Italian, and
when we go to Italy, I mean,they are looking each other in the
(33:25):
eyes.
There's no phones.
And when the people, like, uncomfortably.
Yeah.
And I kind of like it.
Yeah.
And even when, like, peopleare dating and, you know, I don't
know, man, they're romanticoverseas and, like, you know, for
as much as I'm on socialmedia, I'm actually not, like, addicted
to my phone.
And when we would talk, Iwould be thinking in my mind, like,
man, why don't we have a relationship?
(33:46):
Like those that just likecrazy Europeans.
Yeah.
Or whatever his name was, youknow, like.
And I'm like that.
Even when we went to.
The funny story is, you know,I used to travel to Budapest, Hungary,
once or twice a year andminister in Hungary, and I would
minister in Ukraine, and Iwould always.
There's a.
When you go to Budapest,there's a mountain, and if you climb
(34:08):
this little mountain, you cansee over the whole city.
It's.
It's so.
It's so amazing.
And all the years that I wouldminister out there, I would climb
that hill for exercise.
That mountain, or whatever itis, is alone.
Alone.
And when you're meanderingyour way up, you're passing all these
couples on a blanket, youknow, who are just, like, making
out and you know, whatever.
(34:30):
And I would say, man, one dayI'm going to get Julie out here and
we're going to make out onthis mountain and we're going to
look out into Budapest or whatever.
And I finally get you inBudapest, Hungary.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden we'regoing up the mountain and you're
like, my legs hurt.
I'm tired.
And I'm like, my, my wholefantasy is crumbling.
My shoe broke.
(34:50):
Yeah, her shoe broke.
Then all of a sudden I'm like,look at that couple in that.
You know?
And you're like, I don't know,it's kind of weird.
And then all of a sudden,like, I found that there was a spot
that I had this one spot, andit was dark.
And I was like, hey, come over here.
You know, And I was trying tolike, hey, we're gonna have our romantic,
like European moment where wemake that.
(35:11):
And you're like, I don't know,it's dark over there.
And in my mind I was like.
I'm afraid I'm gonna get mugged.
It's like a perfectly safe area.
Yeah.
And it was a total fail.
And we didn't even make out or nothing.
But my point is, I had a.
We had a mismatchedexpectation because in my mind I
(35:31):
wanted us to like, man.
Because I don't want to bemarried 20, 30, 40 years.
And you become roommates.
Yeah.
And you're, you know, and Ihad to confront you and be like,
why is it that when you'retalking to your friends, you're looking
them in their eyes, you'reengaging them.
When you're around me, you're chilling.
But again, that was an opportunity.
And this could maybe helpsomebody out there for me to interpret
(35:52):
your comfortability asdisrespect, when actually it was
not connected to respect at all.
It was literally like, hey,Mike, when I'm with them, I feel
like I have to be on.
And when I'm with you, I feel.
Like I say off.
Yeah, right, right.
But then also I had tocommunicate it in a non threatening
way.
But then there's the counterbalance.
(36:13):
Like, okay, but there'sanother human in this equation.
And your spouse feelsdisrespected when you don't look
them in the eye.
Yeah.
And.
And a lot of men, and I get inso much trouble for saying things
like this because people, theyget real triggered and they don't,
they don't understand.
(36:33):
But a lot of men, when theycheat, it is because they feel respected,
admired by and by Someone else.
Yeah, the wife and the womenare always like, oh, did you see
her?
What did.
What did he like, she's a.
She's so ugly.
Looked him in the eye, right.
It's like she.
She like, treats him adifferent way.
(36:54):
Yeah.
And men are really weird likethat, where it's like they think
that a lot of women think thatmen want this, like, like the mud
flaps girl, you know, like theperfect hourglass figure.
I was like, mud flap.
But I know what you're talking about.
I'm talking hillbilly lady on the.
Yeah, the woman on the back ofthe mud flaps.
Yes.
You know, guys are programmedfor that.
When you see like the imagerywe're exposed to you, you would think
(37:17):
that because that's whatculture puts out, that that's what
men want.
And sometimes women are soconfused, like, why would he ever
with.
And it's like, dude, it'sbecause of the way she treated him.
And men crave.
Now that doesn't justify it.
Right.
It doesn't make it right, butit explains it.
So it's like, and I'm notagain, if you've been victimized
(37:40):
and totally destroyed as aresult of somebody's infidelity,
in no way, shape or form did Iwant to disrespect that.
But I do want you tounderstand that, like, sometimes
men will find those and other things.
And it's kind of the biblicalversion of it is like a prophet in
his hometown is without honor.
So in other words, like, youknow, I've gone to preach at other
(38:02):
great men of God's churchesand, and where these guys are renowned
authors, these guys areprolific preachers.
You know, they've.
They're legends.
And in their own church, theirstaff and their church members don't
respect them.
You know, and it's like thatsame pastor goes to another church
to minister and there's alineup out the door to.
(38:23):
For a book signing and they goto their own church.
Like, ah, whatever, that's past.
And I've been grievedministering in the pulpit of legends
that their own church.
And so I think sometimesthere's this familiarity.
And so like, sometimes it'slike when you're a man, when that
familiarity sets in, whensomebody doesn't treat you like that,
(38:44):
it.
It just, it makes you feel so.
Alive and same for women.
You know, if.
Think about your house, if, ifsomebody came in and was like, I'm
going to clean your house for free.
I'm going to do your laundry,I'm going to Buy all your groceries.
I'm going to.
I'm not even going to wait foryou to ask for deodorant.
I'm just going to wait for youto mention you're out of deodorant
(39:05):
and then go get it for you.
If somebody came into yourhome and did all those things, you
would be like, this is thegreatest person in my life.
You'd want to pay them.
You would want to give themyour attention, your time.
You would want to thank themin some way.
And it's like, wives do thatevery single day.
And it's so casual.
It's so familiar.
And I think something that Ireally want to try to do in this
(39:27):
next two decades of ourmarriage is really.
I've been asking the HolySpirit, like, remind me when I'm
too familiar, like, in our case.
And I know this isn't the casefor everybody.
Am I getting too off topic?
Do you want to wrap it up?
No.
We can save it for another podcast.
I will say, and I'm excited tosay this, we have three more videos
(39:49):
coming.
Oh, maybe I'll save it.
They can binge watch it, like, literally.
But go ahead, say it.
Because we're all on the edgeof our seat right now.
I was thinking about the familiarity.
And, you know, like, ourdynamic is different.
So we're husband and wife, butwe're also pastor congregant and
we're boss staff.
So we have, like, these threereally or two really odd dynamics
(40:13):
that most people probablydon't have.
And something I do to breakthe familiarity of pastor congregant
is when we're in spaces of ourchurch, I call you Pastor Mike because
that's not for you.
That is for me.
It's to remind me, like, he ismy pastor still.
(40:36):
And then when we are in ourwork setting, I try to treat you
as if you are a boss that I'mnot married to.
Because that is, you know,that would be the dynamic if I were
in a corporate room and in our home.
I'm trying to treat you as ifI like indentured servant.
(41:01):
I'm trying to treat you like.
No, I'm.
I'm.
I'm trying.
And, you know, I'm not there yet.
Like, I'm gonna get therebecause that's what I'm working on,
Lord.
But I'm trying to treat you asI did when we were dating.
That's my goal.
Yeah.
And I may not get it rightevery day.
I mean, there's times when I'mlike, if I Got to pick up your socks
(41:22):
one more time.
You know, like, we had theargument about the toothbrush that
you talked about on Sunday afew weeks ago, which, by the way,
I did purchase him a newtoothbrush, in case you all were
wondering.
It's like trying not to letthose things break the familiarity.
Yeah.
And I don't know, say, there.
There could be some peoplelistening right now who are like,
(41:43):
man, that's weird.
That was cringy.
Like, she calls her husband pastor.
And.
But here's what actuallyhappens, because there.
What actually happens is ithumbles me.
See, when you.
When you honor a good man,that honor produces humility in that
man.
In other words, when you callme pastor, it makes me want to be
(42:04):
a better pastor.
So, like, a humble person, when.
When you honor somebody whohas a level of humility and you're
like, I call him my pastor,I'm not sitting here thinking I'm
the greatest.
I'm thinking, man, this is serious.
Because when she left the lastchurch, married me, and we launched
a church, I have to pastorher, which means I have to get up
(42:25):
ahead of her.
I have to lead her.
I need to pray more than her.
I need to fast more than her.
I.
You know, like you.
All you're doing by honoringme is inspiring me to be better.
It's like, I don't want tofail you, and I don't want to prove
you wrong.
And I think a lot of people,that's why they become familiars.
He doesn't deserve that.
He.
If I start treating him likethat, it's going to get to his head.
(42:47):
He's going to become a narcissist.
I think he already is anarcissist, but it's like, yeah,
but you married him.
Where are you that dumb?
Or maybe you're just wrong.
Like, I don't think youprobably married a narcissist.
I think right now it's clicheand super popular to diagnose.
Like, some of y' all didn'teven pass your psychology class for
(43:07):
your humanities requirement ofyour degree in college, and yet you're
prescribing and people leftand right.
It's like, you don't even knowwhat narcissism is.
Yeah.
What you're actually callingnarcissism is the way your husband
reacted to your disrespect.
He's probably not a legitimate narcissist.
Like, clinically diagnosed,and he probably wouldn't be diagnosed.
(43:30):
He's probably just extremelyupset because he lives in a world
where he just doesn't feeladmired or respected, and he's.
And somebody's got to be theredeemer, right?
And I think for me and you, itwas like, I.
You know, when you werebasically like, I'm gonna call him
my pastor.
And then guess what happened?
It didn't make me more egotistical.
It made me more humble.
I'm gonna call him my boss.
(43:52):
It didn't.
I didn't lord it over you.
I was like, man, I've got totreat her right.
She.
And.
Because really, what happensbiblically is you re.
You sow, you reap what you sow.
So the thing is, it's like theBible even says, love your enemies.
So it's like you can't evenlove your spouse.
But you're supposed to loveyour enemies.
You're not.
By that definition, are youeven a Christian?
(44:14):
Because it's like the Jesusstandard for being a Christian was
love your enemies, nottolerate, not ignore.
Love them.
Right.
But we can't even love ourspouse who's not our enemy.
Matter of fact, you're one inthe spirit.
You know, you're one in theflesh, rather.
And so.
Because.
So you're literally hating yourself.
Yeah.
And I think for me, it waslike, we started to go on this journey
(44:36):
of discovery, and we're gonna.
We're gonna leave it on acliffhanger because we're getting
into some stuff right now.
But I would just end on this,and I'll give you the final word.
You know, we came a long waytogether, and this is what men and
women really want.
We're still figuring.
Figuring it out.
Do you feel secure now?
(44:57):
I feel secure, but also say,like, we're getting better right
in front of you, you know,right in front of you guys.
Like, we're getting betterevery day.
And I hope that when I watchthis video in 5 years and 10 years,
I'm like, oh, man, girl,you've come a long way.
Because I know I've come along way 20 years ago, for sure.
(45:21):
And I don't ever want to justput my feet on the coffee table and
be like, our marriage is good enough.
Like, I want to get a littlebit better every single year.
That's my goal, you know?
And so I feel respected, Ifeel loved, I feel cherished.
Hey.
So I'm here with my lovelywife Julie, and we're going to be
talking about what men andwomen really want today.
We're going to talk about menwant respect and admiration and women
want security.
And they're back tickled.
Play with my hair.
(00:54):
Okay, so we're going to have avery vulnerable conversation.
I just want everybody to knowthis is going to heal your marriage.
And, and then also if you'relike single, this is going to prepare
you for marriage.
But here's where it gets juicy.
We did not pre prepare for this.
No, we did not like this.
And because I wanted it to bevulnerable and I wanted people to
watch me.
And you actually communicate.
(01:15):
So there are no notes.
Yeah, you didn't even scheduleit with me.
I came home, this was set up,and you said, we are doing this.
Actually, what you said was, Ijust got my hair done.
Yes.
And my hair looks so good thatif I was ever going to film, it's
going to be now.
Let's do it.
So.
So why don't you pull theaudio a little closer just in case
you have a voice and thatyou're heard.
(01:36):
So we've been married foralmost 20 years.
We've been together for 22, 23 years.
Something like that.
Which is crazy to think about.
We have an 18 year old, whichis also crazy to think about because
you look 18.
Thanks.
I cannot wrap my head around it.
Yeah.
And then we have a 10 year old.
Yes.
And then we have a dog that I hate.
(01:59):
Yeah, I hate him.
But he loves me the most.
But I hate him the most.
And we're working on that.
So let's talk about this.
Because the truth is me, Idon't know if we should have got
married.
Yeah, I know.
It's so funny.
I don't know if you rememberthis, but like I was just thinking
that the, the.
No, no, no.
(02:20):
The.
The week before we got marriedor two weeks before we got married,
our pastor at the timeactually brought us up in front of
the church.
They prayed for us before our wedding.
And because we got married, wehad a destination wedding.
So we got married out of townand they said, this is a match made
in heaven.
And I remember after our firstargument, I'm like, this is not a
(02:41):
match made in heaven.
This a match made in hell.
Yeah, that should be the titleof our next marriage conference.
Match made in hell.
Because we're opposites inevery way.
Just about.
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis the other day.
And aside from ferocioussexual attraction.
Yeah, Go Ahead, go ahead, tellme more.
(03:03):
I mean, like, we connected ona physical level, you know, you know,
when we were like dating andstuff like that, and, and we had
these conversations about, youknow, life and different things,
but I didn't realize tillafter we got married that a lot of
it, you were fronting, youknow, because like, you were, you
were saying the things that agirlfriend says.
Sure.
To deepen a relationship.
(03:24):
And you also did your fairshare of front.
And I rem distinctly you beinglike, I love Garth Brooks too.
And I'm like, you never listenrecord for that.
But, but I, I do remember, Ido remember.
Yeah.
In the day saying things like,I don't think we would ever fight.
What, what would we ever fight about?
That line, you know, I don't even.
(03:45):
Know what we, what would weever fight about?
Yeah.
And so lots of things, but thetruth is we're complete opposite.
So if you're watching thisright now.
Yeah.
And you're in a marriage andyou feel like I messed up, I.
I shouldn't even be together.
There is a big part of methat's always thought, like, I don't
know that me and you were compatible.
And you know, when you thinklike compatibility, like we've had
(04:10):
to learn like, I think thehealth of our marriage is that we've
learned how to become compatible.
Right.
But I don't think that we arenaturally compatible at all.
Yeah.
And I will say, like, peoplewill say like, oh, you have to be
friends first.
And I'm like, we were great friends.
We were horrible spouses.
Yeah.
That's the best put it.
I don't know that that's likethe most valuable thing, but I don't
(04:34):
know.
We didn't know how to live together.
Right.
We had completely different backgrounds.
And so like when men needrespect and admiration and women
need safety and like, youknow, they, they need safety, they
need the comfortability.
Right.
Because you're wired that way.
And for those of you who arelike, oh, they don't get it, you
(04:54):
know, this is like, you know,this is too specific.
Like, men need safety too.
No, we're talking about thepredominant need.
Yes.
Because of course, men need adegree of safety, but they, we are
biologically wired because oftestosterone and various different
things to seek risk.
You know, that's why maledominated fields tend to be risk
(05:16):
seeking fields.
Right.
Yeah.
And you see more men in those fields.
And so in the same way a womanis, is built for security, which
I think is primal, becausewomen birth children and they have
ensure that Those children,which really human beings are born,
like, without the ability tocare for themselves as at all.
Like a horse comes out of themother and immediately stands up
(05:38):
and starts walking around.
And a child can't even startwalking for 10, 11 months early and
then a year later.
So human beings are bornincredibly dependent.
And so women, I believe thefemale gender, it really has a predisposition
towards safety because it'slike, in you, right?
Yes.
(05:58):
And, you know, people who tryto deny those norms are just denying
reality.
Right, Right.
I was, I saw a piece ofcontent the other day and they saw
the book, you know, it waslike, Love and Respect.
And they were like, this isresponsible for my deconstruction.
And I'm like, no, this isgoing to be responsible for your
divorce if you burn that book.
Like, the reality is, is like,you cannot have a successful relationship
(06:21):
with disrespect both ways,with not giving love and attention
both ways without offeringsecurity both ways.
But predominantly women arefind, for the most part, love in
these certain areas, and menare going to find them in these certain
areas.
So if you're evolved andyou're a man and you say, I don't
(06:43):
need respect, okay, like, wedon't believe you.
That's called cognitive dissonance.
And you're lying to yourself.
Yes.
And I know you're trying to beevolved, but, like, you know, it's
not going to last long, I'lljust tell you that.
Right.
Well, when you go back toGenesis, chapter three, basically,
(07:03):
Eve was created for companionship.
Adam said, I'm alone, which iscrazy because he's walking with God
in the garden, and he has purpose.
This is pre sin.
Right.
So sin has not entered the earth.
By the way, Adam had a jobbefore sin entered the earth.
And so men need to have a job.
Men need to work.
(07:24):
Please work.
If you're watching this rightnow, like, and you're spending more
time in video games andfantasy, you need to get a job.
Yeah, I'm speaking to the menright now.
Like, matter of fact, you canshare this video with a man who needs
this message.
You need to get a job.
And it's.
If you're not working, what'shappening is you're contributing
to your depression, youranxiety, your fear, your worry.
(07:45):
Like, get your body moving,get out of the bed, get out of that
gamer chair and go work.
And so the other thing, thoughis that men want to feel that they're
climbing the social hierarchy.
They want to feel like, I'mrespected, you know, that when I
Talk, people listen.
And so men will not go toenvironments where they're not being
heard, they're not being listened.
(08:06):
So did this is like even theirfriends, their friends listen to
them.
Their friend.
You know, it's funny becausethe gamers put headsets on and they
go on these missions togetherwith guns in these various different
video games.
And they listen to each otherand they cooperate.
Men need missions.
It's, it's really becausewe're built to be conquerors.
And so like God gave Adamdominion over the garden and which
(08:29):
was an assignment.
He said, I want you to namethe creation and I want you to keep
this thing, dress it it liketake care of it.
You have dominion.
But then also he said in themidst of that, I'm lonely.
So most of you watching andI'm speaking to the men.
You don't have the gift ofsingleness, which is why you keep
going back to fee master andit's why you keep going to the strip
(08:51):
club.
It's why you keep going intoinappropriate relationships.
Like you.
The Bible says it's better tomarry than to burn.
And so right now we keepextending the how long we're married.
You know, we, we wait.
Like I need to be older till Iget married.
I need to have more.
And what's happening is you'reburning instead of marrying.
And the Bible says it's betterto marry than to burn.
(09:12):
And what I'm saying is it'slike we have this delayed adolescence,
extended adolescence.
And if you're watching thislike you're probably a brother and
a son, but you haven't becomea father and a husband.
And we need men to become husbands.
We need men to become fathersand stop just being brothers and
sons.
Yeah.
But for me, I know here's thebigger point I want to make and then
(09:36):
I want to hear what you haveto say about this from the female
perspective is I, I got married.
But.
And even our pastors agreedthat this was a good thing.
Yeah.
Me and you are complete andtotal opposites.
I was not equipped for marriage.
I didn't know how to have a wife.
And I have always found itfunny that it's.
(09:56):
You have to take a test to geta driver's license, but you don't
have to take a test to get amarriage license.
Right.
So like you can drive a 2 tonsteel vehicle at 100 miles an hour
and you have to take a test toensure that you can safely do that,
not kill yourself and otherpeople, but you can make the most
important decision of yourlife without a test.
(10:17):
Right.
Which is your spouse.
Right.
And so me and you had tofigure out how to be married, and
we're still figuring out howto be married in every season of
our life.
But I feel like I, in theearly days of our marriage, if I
could be blunt, felt extremelydisrespected all the time.
I felt like you underminedeverything I said, thought.
(10:38):
I just felt like amongst myfriends, you know, you had battled
me out.
No, don't do that.
I don't want you to do that.
And it just, it triggered me.
And I'm very autonomous and I.
You know what I mean?
My personality is more of theleader, the alpha.
And so being in a relationshipwhere you're a very strong woman,
you're opinionated and, youknow, there were things that I was
(10:59):
doing that you didn't want meto do.
It just.
I felt like in those earlydays, it was very, very difficult,
you know, and then I came fromthe other side of the tracks, so
I had poverty mindsets.
You know, I.
And then you came from a very.
Holiday that was huge.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You had a very strong middleclass upbringing.
(11:21):
Yeah.
So it was like we had.
We had a culture clash of.
Of like, classes.
It's like lower class versusmiddle class.
We had this, like, we werekind of.
We weren't.
We weren't complementing each other.
Like, Adam and Eve weresupposed to be companions.
Yeah.
But, like, I think whathappens a lot of times is there's
more compact combat than companionship.
(11:42):
And like, we kind of had that.
But then I also don't feellike I did a good job of loving you
and listening to you.
And, And I really.
I tried to provide safety andsecurity, and I didn't probably do
the best job for that becauseI was doing high risk behaviors.
So what was it like for you?
Wanting.
So now you've heard my side.
They've heard my side.
(12:02):
Yeah, I want to.
What was it like from yourperspective, you know, not having
the security, not having thesafety, not having.
Because here's this wild manwith all this potential.
But I was destroying our livesand our relationship.
So I had, like, unrestrained potential.
But then you, you know, hadthis need for safety.
(12:23):
Right, right.
You know, for me, I grew up ina very stable home, thank God.
So we only had half the traumathat most people have, because most
people are coming from twobroken homes.
I mean, just the.
Statistically in the UnitedStates, you know, globally, I'm.
I'm not sure what thosestatistics are, but here I mean,
(12:45):
over half of households are divorce.
There's divorce somewhere intheir story.
So thankfully we only had likehalf of that.
But even given that there'sstill patterns, behaviors, you know,
things that contribute to nothealthy marriage.
And I distributed or I what doyou exhibited many of those toxic
(13:12):
behaviors, Passive aggressivecommunication, wanting to have control,
you know, having feelings andnot knowing how to articulate them.
I wish, you know, and you, andyou can't go back.
But man, if, if I could, if Icould go back and have the tools
that we all have, thispodcast, these sermon series, you
(13:38):
know, different pieces ofcontent that are out, out there,
therapy that you can just openyour computer and receive help and
you know, healing.
It's like, man, we, it wouldhave been such a different story
for us because we weren't thatsmart, but we would have been smart
enough to use the tools.
(13:59):
And so I remember like justfeeling so broken in our marriage,
feeling like, you know, I'munhappy, I'm frustrated.
And I remember going to likethe Christian bookstore and just
going down the aisles andthinking like, I don't even know
where to start, you know, and.
And it wasn't until yearslater, unfortunately, that we did
(14:23):
began to get couples counseling.
We just weren't smart enoughto start that process, like right
at the end.
Listening, listen.
Counseling isn't the end all,be all.
It is not a global solution.
The solution is Jesus.
And all those things aretools, you know, on our journey.
But for me, you did have a lotof high risk behaviors and that did
(14:45):
affect me.
And.
But I will say you were alwaysa hard worker.
I never had to get you up forwork once.
I never had to be worriedabout if you were going to show up
or so being a provider, thatwas a huge thing.
And I know a lot of women outthere, they struggle in that area.
So I can't identify with thatstruggle because no matter what,
you are always a great provider.
(15:07):
Thank you for that, by the way.
And I like the way you'resaying was like, I'm dead right now.
Like the way you're speakingis like a funeral.
Like, yeah, he was always agreat provider.
Well, but you, that person isdead to me, praise God, you know,
because I don't even thinkabout you in those ways anymore.
Amen.
That I'll take that as thebiggest miracle I've ever caught
(15:27):
on film.
Amen.
To be, for a man to be able tosay that the parts of you that were
a failure are dead to yourwife is the evidence of how much
work we've done.
Yeah.
And it's still work.
And, you know, of course wehave things that we work through
now, but some of those majorissues, I mean, really, really, I
see now that the enemy wasusing that as a tool to separate
(15:53):
us, divorce us, you know,cause us to not, you know, be together,
not have our children.
Like, it was definitely a planfor the enemy.
But, yes, you.
You were.
You did do dumb things.
Things that hurt me just waysthat you would, you know, like, not
acknowledge certain holidays.
(16:13):
It was like this.
This rebellion.
And even though, like, oh,it's just a holiday.
But that made me feel unsafebecause I wanted to provide a life
where things were special.
There were special days.
There were important days.
So if you're a man and you'rewatching this podcast and you eye
roll every time there's abirthday party or every time there's
a holiday, or every time yourwife wants you guys to match, this
(16:37):
man right here can identify.
But I will also say, you, sir,will always match the family.
And you never give me any lipabout it.
Maybe you could talk moreabout that journey.
Well, nobody on one of those.
Those things bigger than me now.
Yeah, yeah.
You're buying the matching shirts.
I turned, I did a 180.
Yeah, yeah.
(16:57):
But also, just to put somecontext on it, I was raised in an
incredibly poor family with alot of trauma and abuse.
So what happened was everysingle one of my holidays was sabotaged.
So it created a trauma trigger.
Yes.
So what would happen was like,if you wake up on Christmas morning
as a kid a couple of timeswith no presence or even worse, no
(17:21):
heat, like, you're waking up because.
And you're wearing six layersof clothes so you don't get frostbite
while you're sleeping.
There is no.
I'm waiting to go get thepresents under the tree.
That traumatizes you inAmerica, right?
Yeah, because even, you know,there's different degrees of poverty.
And I somehow was in thatlowest level.
Yeah.
Where it's like, it's possibleto actually starve and be hungry
(17:45):
or.
And be, you know, cold and nothave presence.
So then of course, you getmarried and you're with this, like,
middle class white familythat's like, look, guys, look at,
you know, oh, don't open this.
And it's every little.
Everyone come down the stairsat the same time.
And it would be.
It would just irk me because Iwas so wounded.
And there's many of you guyswatching right now where it's like,
(18:07):
does your wife get on your nerves?
Or does your situation triggeryour own trauma?
Okay, so that is the, that'swhat I wish I would have understood
(19:22):
at that time.
Well, you know, but that's thething is you would have been more
empathetic of me and be like,my God, there's a broken 8 year old
boy that's sitting in thatcorner right now who doesn't want
to be a part of any of thisbecause he never had a dad, he never
had presents, and it's hardfor him to see this and it's hard
for him to be happy becausethat's really the what was happening.
(19:44):
So you're empathetic.
Yeah, but then I've also grownin my empathy to say, but why did
I.
Like, somebody else stabbedme, but I bled on you.
Yeah, like somebody else hurtme, but then I ended up hurting you.
And so it's like what you haveto tell that boy is like, hey, one
day you're going to become a man.
And you can never use anexcuse to hurt the people that you
(20:06):
are supposed to protectbecause husbands are protectors,
husbands are providers.
And going back to Genesis,chapter three, there was a, there
was a.
You know, basically it saysthat from the side of Adam, we say
the rib.
But I like the, the originalbiblical text, it just says the side.
And so if God wanted to makeanother Adam and just say, hey, you
(20:29):
know, here's Adam and Steve,you know, in other words, I'm going
to make someone exactly likeyou, right?
Then that's what God wouldhave done.
But in his infinite wisdom andknowledge, he said, and he said,
I'm going to make woman.
And she's not going to be like you.
Matter of fact, like yourskin's going to be calloused and
(20:50):
a little harder and your bodyshapes me, but woman is going to
be soft, she's going to have curves.
It's different and it's complementary.
So the differences aresupposed to complement and what I
think when I started thispodcast, I talked about how different
we were, but the truth is wewere different by design.
(21:11):
And what happens is you weremy greatest asset.
I was your greatest asset.
Because what if, if you founda way to channel all of my vision
and all of my passion and allof that, you know, tenacity, that
risk I could literally take onthe world, we can accomplish these
big things.
So it, and I would even pullyou out of your comfort zone and
(21:34):
you would be using the giftsthat God had for you.
But in order for that tohappen, you have to honor the things
that actually scares you the most.
And then.
But for me, I need to.
I need the counterbalance ofSabbath and rest and family and making
special memories that they.
They get filmed but neverreleased on YouTube.
(21:55):
Yeah.
And it's.
And it's like.
And we have matching.
And so the normalcy becomesthe counterbalance for the greatness
where it's like we fill thestadium, but we also filled our home
with joy.
It's like the counterbalance.
So it's like.
And what we.
In the early days of our mar.
It's like we had the potentialto have this happy, healthy, vibrant
(22:16):
home.
And we also had the potentialto, like, launch churches across
America and fill stadiums.
But it was like that potentialwas hiding in me and that potential
was hiding in you.
And it was so radicallydifferent that we couldn't see the
value in it.
So my wounds wouldn't let mesee the value in having normal memories.
(22:38):
But then your passive aggressive.
You come from a family, youknow, shout out, Nana, Holy Ghost,
and we're just airing all your business.
But you guys come from afamily where there is a lot of.
Like, you guys didn't fight,but you.
But you were fighting.
You just didn't yell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was like there wastension, there was things being said.
(23:00):
It's just nobody raised theirvoice because it was passive aggressive.
Yeah.
And then you guys wereaggressive, aggressive, aggressive.
And neither one is healthy.
And what we had to do is justfind like, okay, where are we at?
In like, where.
Where's the.
The healthy?
Who are the Signorelli?
Who are the Signorellis?
(23:21):
Yeah.
And I would say, you know, ittook us 20 years, but.
And I think we're gettingbetter every day at it, but we're
on our way, you know, andhere's the thing.
I don't know if you've ever.
Well, you've been on a cruise.
We've been on a cruise together.
Although you took Dramamineand I've been.
On a cruise once.
You know that.
And you never even saw thelight of day, do you.
(23:43):
Should I at least tell themwhat you're referencing?
It's funny, I.
I think cruises are thefloating Walmart of the sea.
And I'm just.
You're going, they're gonnacome for you.
I love it.
All joking aside, I used to bean alcoholic, so God delivered me
from alcoholism.
All the alcohols, sometimesbeing around all that environment
because.
(24:03):
And that I was joking aboutthe Walmart of the sea, but I did
see a meme.
Yeah.
Of the sea.
No, there's some Nice cruises.
And everybody's going to be inthe comments section right now telling
me all the cruise lines Ishould try out.
Yeah.
But for me, as somebody who isdelivered from alcohol, a lot of
people do go on cruises tojust drink exorbitant amounts, lay
out in the sun and all that.
Right.
And so for me, that's not myideal vacation.
(24:26):
And I like to explore.
Yeah.
So I did compromise and wewent one year and I got a little
seasick, so I took Dramamine,not knowing that I have some kind
of allergic reaction to it.
He slept.
I was reading about it, andfor three days straight, the cruise
was only four.
I mean, I was in and out of consciousness.
I.
(24:46):
I have never slept that muchin my adult life.
So.
Okay, so what I was sayingthat like, okay, so you're on a cruise.
Right.
And what happens is, is as youget closer to the shore, it becomes
more clear to you.
Yeah.
But all that's already there.
It's not.
It didn't appear.
It was there forever.
(25:08):
It's just your vantage point changed.
Yeah.
And I think in marriage it'slike two.
It's like a cruise ship beingreally far from the shore.
And over the years, as you getcloser and closer, over time, you
begin to see a little bit more clearly.
And now, fortunately for thosewho have access to the Internet and
(25:30):
all these amazing tools thatare out there, like this stream,
like this podcast, like thissermon series, you guys are lightning
years ahead of us, but thatship can move a lot faster for you.
For us, it was a really slow.
You know, we were rowers.
We were on a rowboat 20 years ago.
Yeah.
(25:51):
You people take this forgranted, but like, 20 years ago,
you.
Counseling wasn't normalized.
No.
In fact.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you say it was like,like kind of looked down upon.
Yeah.
It was almost like counselingmeant something was really wrong
and it wasn't going to get better.
That was the perception.
It wasn't like, I'm going togo to counseling and it's going to
make us better.
(26:11):
Right.
The perception was something'sreally wrong and it's never going
to get better, and it's justsomething you do to help.
And then like, you hadmentioned going to the Christian
bookstore, and in theChristian bookstore, it was like
you, you could read the booksand stuff, but there was no.
I mean, we got married.
Like pre YouTube.
Yeah.
So there was no.
Like, you just go on YouTubeand whatever.
Now I say all that to saythat, like, we did make the decision,
(26:34):
go to counseling and we Did acouple different rounds of it in
a couple different ways, andeach round had a different effect
on us.
But ultimately, it was thework that we've put in.
Because a counselor can't makeour marriage healthy.
It's us choosing to use thetools that the counselor gave us.
(26:54):
You know what I mean?
It's almost like I can handyou a hammer and the nails and the
lumber, give you the blueprintand tell you how to build a house,
but you have to actually build it.
You have to swing the hammer.
You know what I mean?
So what we were really doingwas, like, we were getting the blueprints,
getting the raw materials, andme and you had to be like, are we
going to build the Signorelli house?
(27:15):
Right.
And we caught ourselves doing it.
We were tired.
We are exhausted.
But then when we step back,and this is the thing, a lot of people,
you know, I wish I had amarriage like yours to us feels like
the equivalency of, man, Iwish I had a house like that.
But it's like, man, but webuilt this house through the snow,
through the rain, through thestorm, like, brick by brick, you
(27:37):
know, we built this thing, youknow, and.
And so it wasn't given to us.
And I think a lot of peoplehave this mindset of, like, healthy
marriages are inherited, not built.
Right, right.
You work on it every day.
Yes.
And it's like, even Adam andEve is such a great narrative because
they're complimentary, butSatan comes and just is easily able
(28:00):
to deceive Eve.
Eve is easily able to persuadeher husband.
And, you know, obviously Adamdidn't lead in that situation, and
humanity falls.
And so you took.
You know, a lot of.
A lot of times right now, wetalk about our soulmates.
Real.
Let me know in the commentssection whether or not you think
soulmates are a real thing.
(28:21):
Like, is there one person.
But here's what we.
Here's what I know biblically,is that Eve was the one for Adam.
Think about it.
She was the only one.
She was the only one, and yetthey still fell.
Right?
So this is a mic drop momentfor somebody.
This is good.
But, like, even when God says,yeah, this is the one, her name's
(28:42):
Eve, you're still gonna fall.
Yeah.
And so what you've got to dois to say, okay, God, cover me in
my nakedness, Walk with me inthe garden and teach me your ways.
And I think for me and you, wehad to call out to God.
God, cover our marriage.
Cover us, walk with us.
We need to figure this out, wedon't know.
And through a lot of humility,I think, just as we come to a close
(29:06):
on this, what women really want.
Men.
Women really want security.
And they don't feel securewhen they don't have the password
to your phone.
They don't feel secure whenthey can't log into the bank account
and.
And even see it.
They don't feel secure whenyou're telling them how much you
don't like that woman at work,unintentionally revealing that that's
(29:30):
the only way you can talkabout her to your wife and you actually
like her and you have a work wife.
They don't feel safe whenyou've always got an excuse for why
you don't go to church, butyou would drop everything to go to
a football game if somebodygave you tickets.
They don't feel safe when youcan watch an MMA with your son but
(29:50):
not sit him down and gothrough the daily growth journal
and read the Bible.
They don't feel safe when youknow how to fix a car, but you don't
know how to fix your marriage.
Like, the men, like, you haveto create safety.
(30:59):
And what I started to do is Istarted to basically just sacrifice.
Like, I'm gonna do whatever Ican to try to help Julie feel safe.
Yeah.
And I.
And stop being mad that youdidn't trust me and do that.
But then you had a dream, andI want to end on this.
Yeah.
Because if you guys got thisfar, you're a real one.
And your marriage, there ishope for your marriage.
(31:20):
I do want to say one thing,though, about the respect thing,
because I think some womenthink that by staying married that.
That's respect.
Like, oh, you're lucky I'mstill here.
No, ladies, that's not respect.
The fact is, is you chose tostay for regardless of your reasons.
Whatever they are, it doesn'tmatter what they are.
(31:40):
If you choose to say youchoose to bury whatever that thing
is, you have to let it go.
You have to resolve in yourheart to forgive, move on, not bring
it up again.
But so many women, because ofthe reasons why they stay, they bring
up those things.
Constantly.
Bringing up the past, that isnot respect.
Being their mom, that is not respect.
(32:00):
Talking to them, talking tothem with, like, the, like, less
care than you would yourfriend on the phone.
That's disrespect.
So sometimes so much can besolved by just talking to your husband.
The same.
You talk to your friend on the phone.
You know, like, if you wouldgive them the same Luxury of.
(32:21):
Like, we've talked about this.
You've asked me, why do yougive your friends my girlfriend's
eye contact?
But you don't give.
You don't look me in the eye.
I'm like, all right, I'll do better.
And why was that?
I don't even remember the answer.
Well, let's.
Let's bring it up again.
I think it's because I'm sosecure with you.
Like, it's actually a compliment.
(32:44):
You know what I mean?
Like, oh, this is.
We're.
We're lifers.
We're together for life.
Like, I'm good, you know, but that.
That kind of comfort can beinterpreted as disrespect.
And you did you well, becauseeven though that's not disrespectful
to me, I literally could careless if you're, like, on your phone
doing something.
As long as we're sittingclose, like, I'm good.
(33:05):
Like, that is.
It's different for me.
But for you, that'sdisrespectful to you, which probably
is.
Just so people understand, I'mmore, like European.
Like, whenever I go to Europe,I am jealous at the way that they
engage with each other.
When you go to Europeancountries, like, I'm Italian, and
when we go to Italy, I mean,they are looking each other in the
(33:25):
eyes.
There's no phones.
And when the people, like, uncomfortably.
Yeah.
And I kind of like it.
Yeah.
And even when, like, peopleare dating and, you know, I don't
know, man, they're romanticoverseas and, like, you know, for
as much as I'm on socialmedia, I'm actually not, like, addicted
to my phone.
And when we would talk, Iwould be thinking in my mind, like,
man, why don't we have a relationship?
(33:46):
Like those that just likecrazy Europeans.
Yeah.
Or whatever his name was, youknow, like.
And I'm like that.
Even when we went to.
The funny story is, you know,I used to travel to Budapest, Hungary,
once or twice a year andminister in Hungary, and I would
minister in Ukraine, and Iwould always.
There's a.
When you go to Budapest,there's a mountain, and if you climb
(34:08):
this little mountain, you cansee over the whole city.
It's.
It's so.
It's so amazing.
And all the years that I wouldminister out there, I would climb
that hill for exercise.
That mountain, or whatever itis, is alone.
Alone.
And when you're meanderingyour way up, you're passing all these
couples on a blanket, youknow, who are just, like, making
out and you know, whatever.
(34:30):
And I would say, man, one dayI'm going to get Julie out here and
we're going to make out onthis mountain and we're going to
look out into Budapest or whatever.
And I finally get you inBudapest, Hungary.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden we'regoing up the mountain and you're
like, my legs hurt.
I'm tired.
And I'm like, my, my wholefantasy is crumbling.
My shoe broke.
(34:50):
Yeah, her shoe broke.
Then all of a sudden I'm like,look at that couple in that.
You know?
And you're like, I don't know,it's kind of weird.
And then all of a sudden,like, I found that there was a spot
that I had this one spot, andit was dark.
And I was like, hey, come over here.
You know, And I was trying tolike, hey, we're gonna have our romantic,
like European moment where wemake that.
(35:11):
And you're like, I don't know,it's dark over there.
And in my mind I was like.
I'm afraid I'm gonna get mugged.
It's like a perfectly safe area.
Yeah.
And it was a total fail.
And we didn't even make out or nothing.
But my point is, I had a.
We had a mismatchedexpectation because in my mind I
(35:31):
wanted us to like, man.
Because I don't want to bemarried 20, 30, 40 years.
And you become roommates.
Yeah.
And you're, you know, and Ihad to confront you and be like,
why is it that when you'retalking to your friends, you're looking
them in their eyes, you'reengaging them.
When you're around me, you're chilling.
But again, that was an opportunity.
And this could maybe helpsomebody out there for me to interpret
(35:52):
your comfortability asdisrespect, when actually it was
not connected to respect at all.
It was literally like, hey,Mike, when I'm with them, I feel
like I have to be on.
And when I'm with you, I feel.
Like I say off.
Yeah, right, right.
But then also I had tocommunicate it in a non threatening
way.
But then there's the counterbalance.
(36:13):
Like, okay, but there'sanother human in this equation.
And your spouse feelsdisrespected when you don't look
them in the eye.
Yeah.
And.
And a lot of men, and I get inso much trouble for saying things
like this because people, theyget real triggered and they don't,
they don't understand.
(36:33):
But a lot of men, when theycheat, it is because they feel respected,
admired by and by Someone else.
Yeah, the wife and the womenare always like, oh, did you see
her?
What did.
What did he like, she's a.
She's so ugly.
Looked him in the eye, right.
It's like she.
She like, treats him adifferent way.
(36:54):
Yeah.
And men are really weird likethat, where it's like they think
that a lot of women think thatmen want this, like, like the mud
flaps girl, you know, like theperfect hourglass figure.
I was like, mud flap.
But I know what you're talking about.
I'm talking hillbilly lady on the.
Yeah, the woman on the back ofthe mud flaps.
Yes.
You know, guys are programmedfor that.
When you see like the imagerywe're exposed to you, you would think
(37:17):
that because that's whatculture puts out, that that's what
men want.
And sometimes women are soconfused, like, why would he ever
with.
And it's like, dude, it'sbecause of the way she treated him.
And men crave.
Now that doesn't justify it.
Right.
It doesn't make it right, butit explains it.
So it's like, and I'm notagain, if you've been victimized
(37:40):
and totally destroyed as aresult of somebody's infidelity,
in no way, shape or form did Iwant to disrespect that.
But I do want you tounderstand that, like, sometimes
men will find those and other things.
And it's kind of the biblicalversion of it is like a prophet in
his hometown is without honor.
So in other words, like, youknow, I've gone to preach at other
(38:02):
great men of God's churchesand, and where these guys are renowned
authors, these guys areprolific preachers.
You know, they've.
They're legends.
And in their own church, theirstaff and their church members don't
respect them.
You know, and it's like thatsame pastor goes to another church
to minister and there's alineup out the door to.
(38:23):
For a book signing and they goto their own church.
Like, ah, whatever, that's past.
And I've been grievedministering in the pulpit of legends
that their own church.
And so I think sometimesthere's this familiarity.
And so like, sometimes it'slike when you're a man, when that
familiarity sets in, whensomebody doesn't treat you like that,
(38:44):
it.
It just, it makes you feel so.
Alive and same for women.
You know, if.
Think about your house, if, ifsomebody came in and was like, I'm
going to clean your house for free.
I'm going to do your laundry,I'm going to Buy all your groceries.
I'm going to.
I'm not even going to wait foryou to ask for deodorant.
I'm just going to wait for youto mention you're out of deodorant
(39:05):
and then go get it for you.
If somebody came into yourhome and did all those things, you
would be like, this is thegreatest person in my life.
You'd want to pay them.
You would want to give themyour attention, your time.
You would want to thank themin some way.
And it's like, wives do thatevery single day.
And it's so casual.
It's so familiar.
And I think something that Ireally want to try to do in this
(39:27):
next two decades of ourmarriage is really.
I've been asking the HolySpirit, like, remind me when I'm
too familiar, like, in our case.
And I know this isn't the casefor everybody.
Am I getting too off topic?
Do you want to wrap it up?
No.
We can save it for another podcast.
I will say, and I'm excited tosay this, we have three more videos
(39:49):
coming.
Oh, maybe I'll save it.
They can binge watch it, like, literally.
But go ahead, say it.
Because we're all on the edgeof our seat right now.
I was thinking about the familiarity.
And, you know, like, ourdynamic is different.
So we're husband and wife, butwe're also pastor congregant and
we're boss staff.
So we have, like, these threereally or two really odd dynamics
(40:13):
that most people probablydon't have.
And something I do to breakthe familiarity of pastor congregant
is when we're in spaces of ourchurch, I call you Pastor Mike because
that's not for you.
That is for me.
It's to remind me, like, he ismy pastor still.
(40:36):
And then when we are in ourwork setting, I try to treat you
as if you are a boss that I'mnot married to.
Because that is, you know,that would be the dynamic if I were
in a corporate room and in our home.
I'm trying to treat you as ifI like indentured servant.
(41:01):
I'm trying to treat you like.
No, I'm.
I'm.
I'm trying.
And, you know, I'm not there yet.
Like, I'm gonna get therebecause that's what I'm working on,
Lord.
But I'm trying to treat you asI did when we were dating.
That's my goal.
Yeah.
And I may not get it rightevery day.
I mean, there's times when I'mlike, if I Got to pick up your socks
(41:22):
one more time.
You know, like, we had theargument about the toothbrush that
you talked about on Sunday afew weeks ago, which, by the way,
I did purchase him a newtoothbrush, in case you all were
wondering.
It's like trying not to letthose things break the familiarity.
Yeah.
And I don't know, say, there.
There could be some peoplelistening right now who are like,
(41:43):
man, that's weird.
That was cringy.
Like, she calls her husband pastor.
And.
But here's what actuallyhappens, because there.
What actually happens is ithumbles me.
See, when you.
When you honor a good man,that honor produces humility in that
man.
In other words, when you callme pastor, it makes me want to be
(42:04):
a better pastor.
So, like, a humble person, when.
When you honor somebody whohas a level of humility and you're
like, I call him my pastor,I'm not sitting here thinking I'm
the greatest.
I'm thinking, man, this is serious.
Because when she left the lastchurch, married me, and we launched
a church, I have to pastorher, which means I have to get up
(42:25):
ahead of her.
I have to lead her.
I need to pray more than her.
I need to fast more than her.
I.
You know, like you.
All you're doing by honoringme is inspiring me to be better.
It's like, I don't want tofail you, and I don't want to prove
you wrong.
And I think a lot of people,that's why they become familiars.
He doesn't deserve that.
He.
If I start treating him likethat, it's going to get to his head.
(42:47):
He's going to become a narcissist.
I think he already is anarcissist, but it's like, yeah,
but you married him.
Where are you that dumb?
Or maybe you're just wrong.
Like, I don't think youprobably married a narcissist.
I think right now it's clicheand super popular to diagnose.
Like, some of y' all didn'teven pass your psychology class for
(43:07):
your humanities requirement ofyour degree in college, and yet you're
prescribing and people leftand right.
It's like, you don't even knowwhat narcissism is.
Yeah.
What you're actually callingnarcissism is the way your husband
reacted to your disrespect.
He's probably not a legitimate narcissist.
Like, clinically diagnosed,and he probably wouldn't be diagnosed.
(43:30):
He's probably just extremelyupset because he lives in a world
where he just doesn't feeladmired or respected, and he's.
And somebody's got to be theredeemer, right?
And I think for me and you, itwas like, I.
You know, when you werebasically like, I'm gonna call him
my pastor.
And then guess what happened?
It didn't make me more egotistical.
It made me more humble.
I'm gonna call him my boss.
(43:52):
It didn't.
I didn't lord it over you.
I was like, man, I've got totreat her right.
She.
And.
Because really, what happensbiblically is you re.
You sow, you reap what you sow.
So the thing is, it's like theBible even says, love your enemies.
So it's like you can't evenlove your spouse.
But you're supposed to loveyour enemies.
You're not.
By that definition, are youeven a Christian?
(44:14):
Because it's like the Jesusstandard for being a Christian was
love your enemies, nottolerate, not ignore.
Love them.
Right.
But we can't even love ourspouse who's not our enemy.
Matter of fact, you're one inthe spirit.
You know, you're one in theflesh, rather.
And so.
Because.
So you're literally hating yourself.
Yeah.
And I think for me, it waslike, we started to go on this journey
(44:36):
of discovery, and we're gonna.
We're gonna leave it on acliffhanger because we're getting
into some stuff right now.
But I would just end on this,and I'll give you the final word.
You know, we came a long waytogether, and this is what men and
women really want.
We're still figuring.
Figuring it out.
Do you feel secure now?
(44:57):
I feel secure, but also say,like, we're getting better right
in front of you, you know,right in front of you guys.
Like, we're getting betterevery day.
And I hope that when I watchthis video in 5 years and 10 years,
I'm like, oh, man, girl,you've come a long way.
Because I know I've come along way 20 years ago, for sure.
(45:21):
And I don't ever want to justput my feet on the coffee table and
be like, our marriage is good enough.
Like, I want to get a littlebit better every single year.
That's my goal, you know?
And so I feel respected, Ifeel loved, I feel cherished.
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