December 5, 2023 • 32 mins
This week we have the opportunity to chat with Dr. Dana Sinclair.
Dr. Dana Sinclair is a registered psychologist with a career that spans across various high-performance fields. Holding doctorates from the prestigious University of Cambridge and the University of Ottawa, Dr. Sinclair has established herself as a leading expert in the psychology of performance.
Her work extends to a diverse range of clientele, including professional athletes and teams in major leagues such as the NFL, MLB, NBA, WNBA, NHL, MLS, IndyCar, WTA, PGA, and Olympians. Beyond the realm of sports, she lends her expertise to surgeons, students, executives, parents, coaches, and performance artists, including actors and musicians.
As a Clinical Assistant Professor with the Faculty of Medicine at the University of British Columbia and a member of the American Psychological Association, Dr. Sinclair combines academic rigor with practical application in her approach. She is dedicated to coaching her clients to harness their mental approach in ways that amplify their performance, utilizing a unique process that is both innovative and grounded in years of proven research and experience. Dr. Sinclair's work is characterized by her ability to tailor her approach to each client's individual needs, helping them unlock their full potential in both their professional and personal lives.
Dr. Dana has a new book out called Dialed In and you can check it out at her website https://www.drdanasinclair.com/.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, Welcome back. It's great to be with you.
Welcome to today's podcast whereI have the privilege of hosting
my dear friend and colleague, Dr. Dana Sinclair, a renowned
figure in the world of performance psychology.
I've literally been trying to get Doctor Dana on the show for
years. Super thrilled to be able to
bring this convo to you. Today, Doctor Sinclair holds
(00:22):
doctorates from both the University of Cambridge and the
University of Ottawa, and she currently serves as a Clinical
Assistant Professor with the Faculty of Medicine at the
University of British Columbia. Dr. Sinclair is also a member of
the American Psychological Association.
She has an impressive record of working with a diverse array of
high performers, ranging from professional athletes in major
(00:45):
leagues like Check this Out, theNFLMLBNBAWNBANHLMLS, IndyCar,
WTAPGA, and every other. I could go on.
But she also works a load with the pinnacle of global sports
competition, Olympic level athletes.
We've worked together in golf, we've worked together in
(01:06):
swimming and a number of other sports, and she's one of the few
people that I've had the privilege of seeing work with an
athlete such that she can make adifference almost
instantaneously in someone's performance under pressure.
Her skill in enhancing mental performance is sought after by
surgeons, executives, coaches, and even performance artists,
(01:26):
including actors and musicians. And I think what makes her
approach unique is her ability to coach clients in adjusting
their mental performance and their approach to that
performance under pressure. This process isn't just
intuitive, but it's grounded in years of proven research and her
extensive experience. So in our conversation today,
(01:48):
we'll delve into how Doctor Sinclair helps individuals from
various fields use their minds to excel in what they do and the
impact of a strong mental game on overall performance.
So without any further delays, please enjoy my fascinating
conversation on psychology and peak performance with Doctor
Dana Sinclair. Doctor Dana, thanks for joining
us. Greg, it's always great to see
(02:09):
you. Yeah, it's super awesome.
We've had a lot of fun over the years and so this is going to be
a great conversation. Hopefully we don't revisit too
many wild stories from national team trips and all that sort of
stuff, but in the meantime, why don't we begin with your
national team background and your adventures in how you got
involved in in sport and how youentered into sports psychology?
(02:32):
OK, I'll make a Long story short.
I did play on the national team,field hockey.
I was captain of the team for a while and then was going to
school at the same time. I started as an Aggie, if you
can believe that. I was in agriculture for three
years but then kept playing field hockey and kept going to
school. And then I stopped with hockey,
(02:52):
kept going to school, changed faculties like three times.
This is not a well planned route, so for those of you who
aren't sure what you want to do,don't worry, it will all come
available to you if you just hang in and keep going.
So anyway, I ended up doing a PhD in sports psychology and
then realized that I couldn't get what I wanted, which was to
(03:14):
be licensed as a psychologist. As I say, I should have looked
at it all carefully, more carefully.
And then I went to Cambridge andgot another PhD so I could get
supervised and licensed and really begin the career that I
was looking for. Which again, I wasn't quite sure
of because I worked in reproductive psychiatry for a
(03:35):
few years, running research in some hospitals in Vancouver and
love that. But I decided to support stuff
and the performance stuff was really fun and joined my husband
in the business and I did the sport performance side and he
did sort of the selection hiringside and here we are.
So Dana, once you got through all of this training and you you
(03:56):
look back upon it now, what do you think it was that enabled
you to give yourself permission to go after the thing that you
are passionate about, the psychology, the sports, and
really lean into that one specific area?
And I ask cause so many people struggle with finding their
purpose, finding their mission, finding their thing that they
want to do and giving themselvespermission to get into that.
(04:16):
But it sounds like it was a little bit of a circuitous route
for you to get there. So any insights you have on that
would be spectacular. OK, well it was circuitous, but
I think I found that every time I got to somewhere, I did like
it, but I wanted more. I felt I had a lot of life to
live, so I thought I better get it right earlier in my career,
(04:37):
then wait and be unhappy about it later.
So one thing that I like to talkabout is, you know, find
something you're good at. I don't worry so much about the
passion part because I think thepassion comes later.
If you find something that you are interested in and you work
towards it and you actually become good at it and you get
better and you find work in thatzone, it becomes your passion.
(05:00):
So I think sometimes passion's hard to build or find until you
start to do some things. So try it, and if it doesn't
work out which pass, try it again.
Sometimes you have to quit things to be able to get to what
you want to do and what you're good at.
Letting go and quitting is sometimes pretty difficult to do
too right. Like letting go of something to
(05:20):
open up space for something elseis sometimes pretty pretty
challenging to give yourself permission to do that too.
Well, I think a lot of times people are parented or coached
or in school. We're always taught work harder,
work harder, don't quit, stick with what you've got.
And I don't think that's the best advice.
Interesting. Can you expand upon that?
(05:42):
Because that is. Yes, I can. 100,000% what I see
with my kids and I want to make sure that they have the chance
to, you know, if it's not working, move on, do something
else like that's so fascinating.Yes, even in sports we're told,
work hard, get to the gym, do your training.
Yes, most people do work pretty hard and you have to of course
(06:02):
to get the skills and and to advance.
But a lot of times we don't worksmart, we don't deal with the
mindset, we don't think about how to apply ourselves
effectively. So it's just this push, push,
push, because nobody knows how to tell you to expand in other
areas to even get more out of your talent.
(06:24):
Talent doesn't ensure success. The mindset does.
How can we begin to develop awareness around the mindset
that we need to have in order tobecome successful?
OK. We have to think about our own
performance styles, what we do well under pressure, where we
(06:48):
falter under pressure and knowing what gets in our way or
what the obstacles are. Whether we get too worked up
with negative thoughts, whether we focus too much on the results
instead of the process, whether we worry about the expectations
and try to be perfect and fear failure.
(07:08):
We have to figure out in our lives, OK, what are the two or
three things that do bug me, that do get in the way?
And maybe now that I've isolatedthose, I can have some courage
and try to figure out a way around them using some mental
skills. It's all about trying to apply
these things under pressure. Most of the time we're fine.
You know, when you're feeling good and it seems easy, Roll,
(07:29):
roll, roll, go, go, go, I say. But when we bump up against some
of what we perceive to be our limits or our limits, and we get
a little worked up and we don't perform so well, OK, let's
figure out how to do it better. Figure out how to do it when it
matters. Right.
That's Luna barking about figuring out how to do it when
it matters. You mentioned bumping up against
(07:52):
our limits, fear of failure and that state that we're in at that
particular moment in time is always very fascinating to me.
And then taking a moment to pause to figure out, OK, what's
getting in the way here is really challenging, but I think
that's what you were getting at.Could you explain that in a
(08:14):
little bit more detail for me? For sure in the moment you
can't. I'm talking about having to pre
plan it because in yes, because in the moment there could be 18
things going through your head or you just get distracted by
not wanting to blow it. And what do people do?
(08:34):
They hold back and they think they come up with excuses.
They don't stick to the focus. They don't stick to the the
technique or the procedure or listening to the question,
whatever's going on, whatever task they're involved in.
It's not just sports. I mean, I work with surgeons, I
work with actors, students. It works for anybody.
(08:55):
There's a process that I think is very helpful and it's simple.
So one figure out what gets in the way and it could just be,
oh, I get super tense when this part of the situation, the task
is coming and I hesitate and I back off.
OK, if that's the case, well then we've got to put some
(09:17):
skills into action here. So the top four skills for me
are getting calm and being able to stay there.
Number two, you've got to pre plan your performance cues.
What do I need to do in that moment to be able to execute the
task properly whether you're on stage, I mean you have to deal
with this all the time, Everybody performs, you perform
(09:37):
all the time at home, on stage, wherever you know in the pool.
You have to kind of figure out OK, how do I get calm in the
moment. And again it all has to be pre
planned because it's pretty hardto do on the fly.
You have to figure out those performance cues again, those
things that will you have to stay focused on in the moment to
(09:57):
get through the task properly. Then there's some self talk.
Self talk has two parts in my view.
One, you've got to know what your facts are, What are your
accomplishments have have think through that ahead of time
because we all go to the negative in the moment.
But you know what? If you take a moment and list,
OK, I did this, I did that. Well, you know, I'm not.
(10:18):
And look at the list, I'm not that bad.
I'm actually pretty good. So that's one thing that you
should have ready to go. And then you've got to figure
out what types of things to say to yourself in the moment,
'cause you really. You've got to talk your way
through your performance and then doing a little bit of
daydreaming to practice this in your head peels it all off.
(10:40):
So you've got a choice of four skills.
You don't have to do them all. I say pick one and do it.
But the the my favorite you got to get calm and be able to stay
there or be, you know, calm ish,calm, ish, which is amazing.
Calm ish. That's enough sometimes.
That's all you need if you're ifyou're at a 7 out of 10 on the
(11:02):
on the tension scale, and that'swhen you're starting to forget
things and getting tight. If you can get yourself to A5,
that's all you need. That's all you need.
Let me describe. A situation, too.
I did Iron Man a few. A few times.
For better or for worse. And in one of the times when I
did it, I got off the bike. So you swim 4K, you ride 180 K,
(11:25):
and you're about to do a marathon.
So I'm in between the ride and the marathon, so I'm putting on
my shoes and I've got a bunch ofstuff in my bag that I put there
for a reason, New socks, some gels, and some skin lubricant
stuff so my feet wouldn't sort of fall apart on on the run.
And I got to the point. I was like, my feet are good, I
don't need to change my socks. And I headed out on the run
(11:46):
exactly ended up with two of thebiggest blisters I've ever had
in my life. So it's interesting that in that
moment I had pre planned, I had my checklist and as soon as I
was stressed, tired, fatigued, the idea of sticking to my
technique went out to the window.
And that was one of the mistakesI made that I tried not to do
(12:07):
the next time that I did it. But it's that that to me is
curious and it's so cool that you said like plan, think about
what gets in the way and make sure that you have some self
talk in order to walk yourself through those moments better
next time. Absolutely.
And that third part of the process, you just failed it.
You got to, you have to have a plan.
So you've got all these sort of strategies that you've laid out.
(12:30):
But now the last part is I need to actually plan this.
What do I do before? What do I do during?
What are my, you know, what situation specific situations do
I have to plan for? Perhaps transitions, right?
And then what's my #1 focus? When all else goes out the
window, what do I have to do? Do I just have to keep my form?
Do I have to just keep my, you know, when I'm running my hands
(12:52):
in my pockets? Or what am I doing here?
But you have to have a plan, andit's got to be big enough just
to stick on a sticky note. That's it.
Not some big laid out plan. I mean you start with that, your
blueprint, that's it. But then you've got to get down
to the sticky note for action for the event.
So for you maybe in that situation next time anyway, OK,
(13:14):
I've really got to stick to my plan because if I start going
off beast, it's chancy, you're leaving it to chance.
We shouldn't be doing that so much, right?
And it's easy to do in the moment, because feeling good and
and performing well is just as distracting as performing
poorly. Because guess what happens?
Yeah, that's. Crazy.
(13:35):
Performing well is just as distracting as performing
poorly. Because guess what, When we're
not focused on the task, we're in the distraction zone.
Expectations, negatives, worried, what people are
thinking, mistakes, all of thosethings.
If I'm performing poorly, it's my head is over there.
If I all of a sudden start performing well, hey, look at
(13:58):
me, I'm thinking results, boom, right back in the junk.
And that's why you got to learn to be able to shift.
When you drift, you're going to shift on over to the junk.
Sorry, You're going to drift on over to the junk.
You got to be able to shift on back and you have to have that
sticky note ready to go because that's in the moment.
That's all you've got time to dois just get to those things.
(14:18):
Come on now. You know whether it's something
about your technique, whether it's just talking yourself
through it, whether it's tellingyourself to relax your
shoulders, just breathe. That's all we're talking about.
Simple stuff, But it's very effective.
And this is something that, let's say you're talking about a
baseball player who's at bat going through the process of
managing what pitches are coming, what's working, what's
(14:41):
not working. This is a golfer managing.
How do I recover from a bad shotto make sure that I do the next
one? Well, this is an executive
taking a difficult question all it applies everywhere.
Am I correct? It applies everywhere.
Say you're in, walk into a big meeting and you're asked to
stand up and expand on somethingthat you weren't planning on or
(15:01):
you not even sure about. How do you feel?
How do you? How do you feel right then and
there? Boom, heart rate goes up.
Get a little tense. Mind starts to go a little fast,
right? Oh no, don't blow it.
OK? That's if you know how to settle
yourself down. You'll be better in any
situation whether you know what you're talking about or not,
right? Exactly right.
(15:23):
Which quite often the case in myworld anyway.
I'm also really interested in the idea that you talked about
with regards to self talk, making sure that you have facts
ready to go, which is looking backwards at your
accomplishments to build your confidence in that particular
instant. But then also knowing what is it
(15:46):
that you want to say in that moment to keep you moving
forward. So it's sort of like check the
past for confidence, bring your attention back into the present
moments that you can carry forwards.
That's two elements of self talkI haven't actually laid out in
that that way before. That's also interesting.
Yeah, I I think we're all taughtto that.
(16:07):
When you think about your accomplishments or you're being
cocky, you're being boastful. No.
And also, too, when you do accomplish something, we're
taught, OK, well, that's supposed to happen.
I'm supposed to do that. So you don't think about that
anymore. You move right on.
What's next? I've got to now accomplish this.
No. Take a moment.
Think about it. Write them down.
(16:29):
It helps ground you and think, OK, actually, I've accomplished
this. I can do this.
I'm OK. It's a nice calming mechanism
and actually let's you see reality that those things no one
can take away from you, even youin a cranky moment, can't say,
hey, I'm no good. I didn't do that.
Yeah, you kind of did. So settle then.
Now let's move on to how we're going to do this.
(16:51):
It's important. In fact, I've got clients who,
you know, before a big competition, the week before.
I'm thinking one person who started looking at their facts
every morning, running through the the tournament that they
were in, they got to the finals,they came second, they played
great, Very happy, right? But part of that was just
(17:13):
grounding themselves every morning with OK, come on, I'm
here because of this, this, thisand this.
I got this. Let's go do it.
It's a good start. It's almost like we want to keep
a journal of your successes. Why not?
Why not? I listened to a talk with
Matthew McConaughey, who's a reasonably good actor, and he
(17:35):
had an interesting point that hethat he made was that when he
journals, he doesn't journal when things are going off.
He only journals when things aregoing great because he wants to
have a detailed record of what he was thinking, feeling and
doing in those times when he wason top of the world when he was
at his absolute best. He has a reference point to look
(17:57):
to when things are not going well.
That makes complete sense to me.I'm always asking people when
we're trying to figure out what direction to go to better their
performance. Think about your good
performances. What are you doing?
What are you thinking now? Let's think about the bad ones.
But we're going to learn. We're going to learn from both.
But you've got to think about the good ones, because there's a
(18:18):
difference. And you've got to be able to
figure out the specifics, to be able to shift from the bad over
to the good in the moment. Because you know what?
We all want results. We all want to be good at what
we do. But it's not always easy to get
the most out of ourselves when we're feeling pressure.
So you've got to take matters into your own hands and plan it
(18:39):
out a little bit. Do you think that it's the
planning out in advance that helps us to cope with the
pressure? Is that one of the most
important factors you think? Yes, I think some people do it
well, naturally, but most peopleare cautious individuals.
If you're thinking of a scale, cautious to aggressive, I mean
we don't want to be at the end of the aggression scale because
(19:01):
that's belligerent and annoying.So we don't need that.
But sort of, you know, a lot of people are sort of, you know,
234, they don't want to take action unless they know it's
going to work out. They're a bit risk adverse.
You know, they're modest, they're humble.
They sit back. Learning to sort of push that up
a little bit is one of the best things we can do for ourselves.
Just, you know, push it up from A3 to A5 just in the moment for
(19:25):
that task, and then go back to the wonderful you.
So to be able to get off of yournatural self, you have to sort
of think it through. If next time this is how I'm
going to handle it, practice it.You're much more likely to do it
the next time. But yeah, it's very important.
It's not just. About the power.
Sky. Yeah, no kidding.
(19:47):
And I love the fact that what we're doing in this conversation
is figuring out how to make success inevitable, right?
Like we're taking, We're trying to figure out ways of making it
less subject to chance. And maybe I'll do well, maybe I
won't. But in fact, I can deliberately
plan out my performance. I can anticipate the challenges
that might come. Remember watching?
(20:07):
Yeah, you're creating predictable performance, which
is spectacular. I watched a documentary on Alex
Honnold. Climbing the Dawn Wall and doing
the without ropes and that was ahuge Cliff.
He did it without ropes or boltsor like free soloing the whole
way up. And one of the interesting
(20:28):
things that he said was that he visualized everything that could
go wrong and what he would do ifit did.
So if he put his hand on a hold and it slipped, what's what's
going to happen? And he had actually pre
visualized that all the way up. And you mentioned daydreaming
and visualization. That's a powerful tool too.
Can you explain that a little bit?
(20:49):
Yes, it to me focused daydreaming is the best.
So a lot of times when you talk visualizing to people, just it's
the same thing. Only my version of it is sort of
a a quick version. I like people to practice in
their heads, get an image and whatever else goes with that
image for, you know, do it for five seconds.
(21:12):
If you do it for five seconds, see how, plan out how you want
to be, practice how you want to be and do that three times a
day. That's actually going to make a
difference. It doesn't seem like, but people
think, oh, I have to sit here for an hour and go through
everything in time and whatnot. If you want to and you like it,
for sure do it. But you don't have to.
Doing it regularly more often isextremely helpful.
(21:35):
You can practice becoming chill,learning how to calm down and
keep your composure. You can practice a skill in your
head, getting better at something.
You can see highlights go over the good stuff.
You can learn to fight back in your head, whether it's on the
field or in a conversation. How am I going to handle just
(21:57):
like the free solo? Or how am I going to handle that
negative situation? Or do I just let it happen?
Or do I fight back? Do I practice fighting back in
my head? And then lastly, step it up,
daydreaming. Change the script.
Be bold, think of something different.
Don't just go with what you got,you know?
(22:20):
Go, babe. So it's almost like my daughter
Ingrid right now learning how togo for it in a race, right?
Like she's you got to figure outat some point there's two
different strategies. You can go out slow, back fast
or out fast and and then just hold on and survive.
The second option is scary, but you could visualize that and see
how it goes before you actually try it in a race.
(22:42):
Yes. And then the more you practice
it and the more you sort of think about it, you can make a
better decision as to what you want to do as opposed to just
saying, OK, well, we'll see whathappens.
It takes courage to try to be good, you know, to try to do
these things. So it sorry say that it takes
courage to try to. Be good.
(23:03):
Yep. To try to be better.
It's not easy to put yourself out there because we do end up
with a bit of self sabotage sometimes.
I really want to do this. I think I can.
OK, but what if I actually really try and it doesn't work
out? Oh, it can't be me.
So we, you know, throw excuses in there to say if it doesn't
(23:27):
work out, just so I'm ready for it.
Well, I knew I wouldn't. I knew that time because you
know what? I didn't practice enough or I
didn't do this on the way out orwhatever it is, I didn't study
up enough. We're always kind of giving
ourselves a soft landing, which is OK unless it's bothering you.
And if you know you could be better, you kind of have to get
(23:50):
those obstacles out of the way. Bye in common, staying there,
talking to yourself, all these skills and planning it.
Isn't it interesting how sometimes the person who holds
us back the most is ourselves? Like that self sabotaging to
keep ourselves safe plays such ahuge role in whether or not we
(24:14):
actually get there. Yes.
And this is the stuff I talk about is a a soft way because
it's a private way to save spaceto figure out, OK, do I really
want to clean this up or am I happy with what I'm doing?
Because if I keep doing what I'mdoing, I'm going to keep getting
(24:34):
what I'm getting, which could befantastic or I want to tweak
this a bit. How do I do this?
You know I'm thinking just even if skill sets I'm thinking I go
back to you know the getting common staying there if I could
just get people to think more about that.
I think if OK NFL quarterback I work with what he has said this
(24:57):
season is you know if I it's actually 2 football guys NFL
this year. I've got to stick with the
breathing because they've got the skills pretty much down and
they've studied all week. If I can just keep the tension a
couple of notches below, you know, not A7.
If I can keep it at A5 or A4, I'm good to go.
(25:22):
It all works out. So they work really hard.
The quarterback, you know, he's,you know, in the huddle.
He's doing his thing, but he's still settling down.
He's waiting for the snap. He's breathing, He's dropping
back in the pocket. He's doing the same thing.
Same with the other guy. He's ready to get off the line
fast. He's ready to go because he's
(25:43):
taken the time to actually tell himself to breathe and settle.
I know it sounds simple. It is.
But it's hard to do if you don'tpay attention.
Funny how it works, right? It is funny.
It's also funny how we think that being like that, we're
going to go. But that leads to tension which
sabotages our ability to perform, and our true potential
(26:04):
lies in relaxed energy, not trying harder.
That's so backwards. It helps your body and it helps
you think and cue into the critical things in the moment.
It could just be one thing you need to be able to do, get off
the line fast. I can get off the line faster if
(26:25):
I'm calmer because in an NFL game, there's not too many
opportunities where people are going to find themselves.
I'm just not. I'm just, you know, whatever.
And I'm too relaxed. No.
No. I might be unfocused, but it's
not that I'm too relaxed. Yeah, you're not too relaxed at
the Olympics. You're not too relaxed at the
(26:47):
sales meeting. You're not too relaxed in a
heated conversation, right? The pressure moments which
define our life to some extent. The magic moments are those
where we need to probably bring ourselves back down into calm
ish. Yes doesn't have to be calm.
It's never going to be perfect. Don't worry about perfect, calm,
ish. It's good enough, and good
(27:10):
enough is great in my books. Love it.
Speaking of getting out of your comfort zone, you wrote a book
recently. I did.
Tell us about the book. OK, well, it's called Dialed in.
Do Your best when it matters most.
And it's for everyone and anyonewho wants to be better or thinks
they can be better. And it goes through busting a
(27:30):
few myths out there that we're all sort of taught that we have
to have in place in order to be successful in our performances.
And I try to push around a few of those, one of them being, you
know, confidence. Everybody thinks they need to be
confident. And I say no, it's overrated.
You might want to be confident, but you don't need to be.
(27:52):
Because really, in the moment itdoesn't matter how you feel, it
matters what you do. So I'm always pushing people to
the do get away from the feel. You can feel it all later, don't
worry. But in the moment it's all about
the do. So things like that.
And then and then it was fun to think through for sure.
(28:14):
And then the second part of the book is actually explaining the
process. How do I perform under pressure?
Here you go, step by step. Boom.
Do it. I think right away about like, I
don't feel like going to the gym, but I'm just going to go to
the gym anyway. And it's the action, not the
feeling that determines whether or not you'll be successful long
term. That's really kind of my mantra
(28:35):
at the moment, going along with just being calm.
Ish, I said. So a friend of mine recently,
They're like, how do you want tofeel when you're on stage and,
like, just not anxious. They're like, that's called
calm. It's like, Oh yes, that's right.
Calm. Fantastic.
So I love that you've put together a book that helps
people walk through this, takes all of the information from, you
know, all of your years of practice.
(28:55):
Is there one sort of story or orfun thing that you discovered
when you were writing your book that that popped in where you're
like, huh, that's kind of a neatlittle piece that just sort of
brought a smile to your face as you were working your way
through creating the book. Well, the one thing I did find,
I quite enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I would or not.
(29:16):
I thought it would, but I did because it gave me a chance to
actually pull all the fun stories and the great clients
that I've worked with in the pros and wherever over the years
and put it out there for people to use so that people can relate
to it and use it for themselves.And I did like put in all what I
(29:41):
had, trying to make it clear like it's not necessarily as
what have you written five books.
Yeah, crazy enough there. They are right.
There, right. OK, wonderful.
But trying to make something like very clear, simple writing
takes a while, and you've reallygot to think it through.
And I love that process. That's cool.
(30:04):
Yeah. It was interesting even like the
ripple effect book. the Super bodies book I wrote first was
way too complicated. It's like a textbook.
And then I just tried to make the ripple effect so simple.
It's like sleep, eat, move, think like literally 4 words.
And that's the one that has doneby far the best, because it is
making all of this, this complexity and making it simple
(30:26):
and digestible and actionable for people.
Yes. Well, in in in my work I've
been, obviously I came from the research world and the hospital
world, but trying to make it applicable to people has been a
real joy because that's what's been fun in my practice, is
(30:47):
having people walk out of the office or on the sideline or,
you know, into an exam, having something that they can use
right away that works and that takes a while to get to.
But it's so wonderful when you can help someone very quickly,
as they say, on the sideline, inthe locker room, on a bus, on a
plane, with the team. They need something fast and
(31:09):
they they need it to work. That's what's been the fun.
Yeah. And that's what I've noticed
over the years of working with you, that you're able to do so
well. I always describe you as like
Dana's a sports psychologist andshe's, you know, one of the
people I've met who in the moment can make an instantaneous
difference to somebody as they're competing to help them
reach their potential. So I love that you're created
(31:30):
the book to help all of us do that a little bit more.
And if people want to learn moreabout you and your work and the
book, where can they go to find out a bit more about you?
They can go to Amazon and they can go to Indigo and they can go
to Doctor Davis, sinclair.com. Perfect.
Dana, thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with
us. I really appreciate your wisdom
(31:52):
and your friendship, and good luck with the book.
It's awesome. And I really appreciate you
taking the time to hang out withus today.
Oh. Thanks very much, Greg.
As I say, always great to see you and we'll we'll chat soon
all. Right everyone, I hope that you
enjoyed that episode with DoctorDana.
Super Awesome. Her new book, Dialed in Do Your
Best When It Matters the Most, is available for pre-order at
(32:13):
doctordanasinclair.com, so if you can check that out, that
would be absolutely fantastic. I'm sure you can tell from that
interview that there is just so much great information that she
can share that can make a huge difference for us.
And when you have a quote from Billie Jean King on the cover of
your book, and specifically the quote is anytime you enter the
Eye of the Storm, you need a guiding light.
(32:35):
And with this book, Dana gives us an inspiring and innovative
path forwards. Like, that's a pretty incredible
quote from a pretty epic human to have on the front of your
book. Definitely check it out.
All right, that's it for this week.
Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Have a great week.
We'll see you again soon.
Hi everyone, Welcome back. It's great to be with you.
Welcome to today's podcast whereI have the privilege of hosting
my dear friend and colleague, Dr. Dana Sinclair, a renowned
figure in the world of performance psychology.
I've literally been trying to get Doctor Dana on the show for
years. Super thrilled to be able to
bring this convo to you. Today, Doctor Sinclair holds
(00:22):
doctorates from both the University of Cambridge and the
University of Ottawa, and she currently serves as a Clinical
Assistant Professor with the Faculty of Medicine at the
University of British Columbia. Dr. Sinclair is also a member of
the American Psychological Association.
She has an impressive record of working with a diverse array of
high performers, ranging from professional athletes in major
(00:45):
leagues like Check this Out, theNFLMLBNBAWNBANHLMLS, IndyCar,
WTAPGA, and every other. I could go on.
But she also works a load with the pinnacle of global sports
competition, Olympic level athletes.
We've worked together in golf, we've worked together in
(01:06):
swimming and a number of other sports, and she's one of the few
people that I've had the privilege of seeing work with an
athlete such that she can make adifference almost
instantaneously in someone's performance under pressure.
Her skill in enhancing mental performance is sought after by
surgeons, executives, coaches, and even performance artists,
(01:26):
including actors and musicians. And I think what makes her
approach unique is her ability to coach clients in adjusting
their mental performance and their approach to that
performance under pressure. This process isn't just
intuitive, but it's grounded in years of proven research and her
extensive experience. So in our conversation today,
(01:48):
we'll delve into how Doctor Sinclair helps individuals from
various fields use their minds to excel in what they do and the
impact of a strong mental game on overall performance.
So without any further delays, please enjoy my fascinating
conversation on psychology and peak performance with Doctor
Dana Sinclair. Doctor Dana, thanks for joining
us. Greg, it's always great to see
(02:09):
you. Yeah, it's super awesome.
We've had a lot of fun over the years and so this is going to be
a great conversation. Hopefully we don't revisit too
many wild stories from national team trips and all that sort of
stuff, but in the meantime, why don't we begin with your
national team background and your adventures in how you got
involved in in sport and how youentered into sports psychology?
(02:32):
OK, I'll make a Long story short.
I did play on the national team,field hockey.
I was captain of the team for a while and then was going to
school at the same time. I started as an Aggie, if you
can believe that. I was in agriculture for three
years but then kept playing field hockey and kept going to
school. And then I stopped with hockey,
(02:52):
kept going to school, changed faculties like three times.
This is not a well planned route, so for those of you who
aren't sure what you want to do,don't worry, it will all come
available to you if you just hang in and keep going.
So anyway, I ended up doing a PhD in sports psychology and
then realized that I couldn't get what I wanted, which was to
(03:14):
be licensed as a psychologist. As I say, I should have looked
at it all carefully, more carefully.
And then I went to Cambridge andgot another PhD so I could get
supervised and licensed and really begin the career that I
was looking for. Which again, I wasn't quite sure
of because I worked in reproductive psychiatry for a
(03:35):
few years, running research in some hospitals in Vancouver and
love that. But I decided to support stuff
and the performance stuff was really fun and joined my husband
in the business and I did the sport performance side and he
did sort of the selection hiringside and here we are.
So Dana, once you got through all of this training and you you
(03:56):
look back upon it now, what do you think it was that enabled
you to give yourself permission to go after the thing that you
are passionate about, the psychology, the sports, and
really lean into that one specific area?
And I ask cause so many people struggle with finding their
purpose, finding their mission, finding their thing that they
want to do and giving themselvespermission to get into that.
(04:16):
But it sounds like it was a little bit of a circuitous route
for you to get there. So any insights you have on that
would be spectacular. OK, well it was circuitous, but
I think I found that every time I got to somewhere, I did like
it, but I wanted more. I felt I had a lot of life to
live, so I thought I better get it right earlier in my career,
(04:37):
then wait and be unhappy about it later.
So one thing that I like to talkabout is, you know, find
something you're good at. I don't worry so much about the
passion part because I think thepassion comes later.
If you find something that you are interested in and you work
towards it and you actually become good at it and you get
better and you find work in thatzone, it becomes your passion.
(05:00):
So I think sometimes passion's hard to build or find until you
start to do some things. So try it, and if it doesn't
work out which pass, try it again.
Sometimes you have to quit things to be able to get to what
you want to do and what you're good at.
Letting go and quitting is sometimes pretty difficult to do
too right. Like letting go of something to
(05:20):
open up space for something elseis sometimes pretty pretty
challenging to give yourself permission to do that too.
Well, I think a lot of times people are parented or coached
or in school. We're always taught work harder,
work harder, don't quit, stick with what you've got.
And I don't think that's the best advice.
Interesting. Can you expand upon that?
(05:42):
Because that is. Yes, I can. 100,000% what I see
with my kids and I want to make sure that they have the chance
to, you know, if it's not working, move on, do something
else like that's so fascinating.Yes, even in sports we're told,
work hard, get to the gym, do your training.
Yes, most people do work pretty hard and you have to of course
(06:02):
to get the skills and and to advance.
But a lot of times we don't worksmart, we don't deal with the
mindset, we don't think about how to apply ourselves
effectively. So it's just this push, push,
push, because nobody knows how to tell you to expand in other
areas to even get more out of your talent.
(06:24):
Talent doesn't ensure success. The mindset does.
How can we begin to develop awareness around the mindset
that we need to have in order tobecome successful?
OK. We have to think about our own
performance styles, what we do well under pressure, where we
(06:48):
falter under pressure and knowing what gets in our way or
what the obstacles are. Whether we get too worked up
with negative thoughts, whether we focus too much on the results
instead of the process, whether we worry about the expectations
and try to be perfect and fear failure.
(07:08):
We have to figure out in our lives, OK, what are the two or
three things that do bug me, that do get in the way?
And maybe now that I've isolatedthose, I can have some courage
and try to figure out a way around them using some mental
skills. It's all about trying to apply
these things under pressure. Most of the time we're fine.
You know, when you're feeling good and it seems easy, Roll,
(07:29):
roll, roll, go, go, go, I say. But when we bump up against some
of what we perceive to be our limits or our limits, and we get
a little worked up and we don't perform so well, OK, let's
figure out how to do it better. Figure out how to do it when it
matters. Right.
That's Luna barking about figuring out how to do it when
it matters. You mentioned bumping up against
(07:52):
our limits, fear of failure and that state that we're in at that
particular moment in time is always very fascinating to me.
And then taking a moment to pause to figure out, OK, what's
getting in the way here is really challenging, but I think
that's what you were getting at.Could you explain that in a
(08:14):
little bit more detail for me? For sure in the moment you
can't. I'm talking about having to pre
plan it because in yes, because in the moment there could be 18
things going through your head or you just get distracted by
not wanting to blow it. And what do people do?
(08:34):
They hold back and they think they come up with excuses.
They don't stick to the focus. They don't stick to the the
technique or the procedure or listening to the question,
whatever's going on, whatever task they're involved in.
It's not just sports. I mean, I work with surgeons, I
work with actors, students. It works for anybody.
(08:55):
There's a process that I think is very helpful and it's simple.
So one figure out what gets in the way and it could just be,
oh, I get super tense when this part of the situation, the task
is coming and I hesitate and I back off.
OK, if that's the case, well then we've got to put some
(09:17):
skills into action here. So the top four skills for me
are getting calm and being able to stay there.
Number two, you've got to pre plan your performance cues.
What do I need to do in that moment to be able to execute the
task properly whether you're on stage, I mean you have to deal
with this all the time, Everybody performs, you perform
(09:37):
all the time at home, on stage, wherever you know in the pool.
You have to kind of figure out OK, how do I get calm in the
moment. And again it all has to be pre
planned because it's pretty hardto do on the fly.
You have to figure out those performance cues again, those
things that will you have to stay focused on in the moment to
(09:57):
get through the task properly. Then there's some self talk.
Self talk has two parts in my view.
One, you've got to know what your facts are, What are your
accomplishments have have think through that ahead of time
because we all go to the negative in the moment.
But you know what? If you take a moment and list,
OK, I did this, I did that. Well, you know, I'm not.
(10:18):
And look at the list, I'm not that bad.
I'm actually pretty good. So that's one thing that you
should have ready to go. And then you've got to figure
out what types of things to say to yourself in the moment,
'cause you really. You've got to talk your way
through your performance and then doing a little bit of
daydreaming to practice this in your head peels it all off.
(10:40):
So you've got a choice of four skills.
You don't have to do them all. I say pick one and do it.
But the the my favorite you got to get calm and be able to stay
there or be, you know, calm ish,calm, ish, which is amazing.
Calm ish. That's enough sometimes.
That's all you need if you're ifyou're at a 7 out of 10 on the
(11:02):
on the tension scale, and that'swhen you're starting to forget
things and getting tight. If you can get yourself to A5,
that's all you need. That's all you need.
Let me describe. A situation, too.
I did Iron Man a few. A few times.
For better or for worse. And in one of the times when I
did it, I got off the bike. So you swim 4K, you ride 180 K,
(11:25):
and you're about to do a marathon.
So I'm in between the ride and the marathon, so I'm putting on
my shoes and I've got a bunch ofstuff in my bag that I put there
for a reason, New socks, some gels, and some skin lubricant
stuff so my feet wouldn't sort of fall apart on on the run.
And I got to the point. I was like, my feet are good, I
don't need to change my socks. And I headed out on the run
(11:46):
exactly ended up with two of thebiggest blisters I've ever had
in my life. So it's interesting that in that
moment I had pre planned, I had my checklist and as soon as I
was stressed, tired, fatigued, the idea of sticking to my
technique went out to the window.
And that was one of the mistakesI made that I tried not to do
(12:07):
the next time that I did it. But it's that that to me is
curious and it's so cool that you said like plan, think about
what gets in the way and make sure that you have some self
talk in order to walk yourself through those moments better
next time. Absolutely.
And that third part of the process, you just failed it.
You got to, you have to have a plan.
So you've got all these sort of strategies that you've laid out.
(12:30):
But now the last part is I need to actually plan this.
What do I do before? What do I do during?
What are my, you know, what situation specific situations do
I have to plan for? Perhaps transitions, right?
And then what's my #1 focus? When all else goes out the
window, what do I have to do? Do I just have to keep my form?
Do I have to just keep my, you know, when I'm running my hands
(12:52):
in my pockets? Or what am I doing here?
But you have to have a plan, andit's got to be big enough just
to stick on a sticky note. That's it.
Not some big laid out plan. I mean you start with that, your
blueprint, that's it. But then you've got to get down
to the sticky note for action for the event.
So for you maybe in that situation next time anyway, OK,
(13:14):
I've really got to stick to my plan because if I start going
off beast, it's chancy, you're leaving it to chance.
We shouldn't be doing that so much, right?
And it's easy to do in the moment, because feeling good and
and performing well is just as distracting as performing
poorly. Because guess what happens?
Yeah, that's. Crazy.
(13:35):
Performing well is just as distracting as performing
poorly. Because guess what, When we're
not focused on the task, we're in the distraction zone.
Expectations, negatives, worried, what people are
thinking, mistakes, all of thosethings.
If I'm performing poorly, it's my head is over there.
If I all of a sudden start performing well, hey, look at
(13:58):
me, I'm thinking results, boom, right back in the junk.
And that's why you got to learn to be able to shift.
When you drift, you're going to shift on over to the junk.
Sorry, You're going to drift on over to the junk.
You got to be able to shift on back and you have to have that
sticky note ready to go because that's in the moment.
That's all you've got time to dois just get to those things.
(14:18):
Come on now. You know whether it's something
about your technique, whether it's just talking yourself
through it, whether it's tellingyourself to relax your
shoulders, just breathe. That's all we're talking about.
Simple stuff, But it's very effective.
And this is something that, let's say you're talking about a
baseball player who's at bat going through the process of
managing what pitches are coming, what's working, what's
(14:41):
not working. This is a golfer managing.
How do I recover from a bad shotto make sure that I do the next
one? Well, this is an executive
taking a difficult question all it applies everywhere.
Am I correct? It applies everywhere.
Say you're in, walk into a big meeting and you're asked to
stand up and expand on somethingthat you weren't planning on or
(15:01):
you not even sure about. How do you feel?
How do you? How do you feel right then and
there? Boom, heart rate goes up.
Get a little tense. Mind starts to go a little fast,
right? Oh no, don't blow it.
OK? That's if you know how to settle
yourself down. You'll be better in any
situation whether you know what you're talking about or not,
right? Exactly right.
(15:23):
Which quite often the case in myworld anyway.
I'm also really interested in the idea that you talked about
with regards to self talk, making sure that you have facts
ready to go, which is looking backwards at your
accomplishments to build your confidence in that particular
instant. But then also knowing what is it
(15:46):
that you want to say in that moment to keep you moving
forward. So it's sort of like check the
past for confidence, bring your attention back into the present
moments that you can carry forwards.
That's two elements of self talkI haven't actually laid out in
that that way before. That's also interesting.
Yeah, I I think we're all taughtto that.
(16:07):
When you think about your accomplishments or you're being
cocky, you're being boastful. No.
And also, too, when you do accomplish something, we're
taught, OK, well, that's supposed to happen.
I'm supposed to do that. So you don't think about that
anymore. You move right on.
What's next? I've got to now accomplish this.
No. Take a moment.
Think about it. Write them down.
(16:29):
It helps ground you and think, OK, actually, I've accomplished
this. I can do this.
I'm OK. It's a nice calming mechanism
and actually let's you see reality that those things no one
can take away from you, even youin a cranky moment, can't say,
hey, I'm no good. I didn't do that.
Yeah, you kind of did. So settle then.
Now let's move on to how we're going to do this.
(16:51):
It's important. In fact, I've got clients who,
you know, before a big competition, the week before.
I'm thinking one person who started looking at their facts
every morning, running through the the tournament that they
were in, they got to the finals,they came second, they played
great, Very happy, right? But part of that was just
(17:13):
grounding themselves every morning with OK, come on, I'm
here because of this, this, thisand this.
I got this. Let's go do it.
It's a good start. It's almost like we want to keep
a journal of your successes. Why not?
Why not? I listened to a talk with
Matthew McConaughey, who's a reasonably good actor, and he
(17:35):
had an interesting point that hethat he made was that when he
journals, he doesn't journal when things are going off.
He only journals when things aregoing great because he wants to
have a detailed record of what he was thinking, feeling and
doing in those times when he wason top of the world when he was
at his absolute best. He has a reference point to look
(17:57):
to when things are not going well.
That makes complete sense to me.I'm always asking people when
we're trying to figure out what direction to go to better their
performance. Think about your good
performances. What are you doing?
What are you thinking now? Let's think about the bad ones.
But we're going to learn. We're going to learn from both.
But you've got to think about the good ones, because there's a
(18:18):
difference. And you've got to be able to
figure out the specifics, to be able to shift from the bad over
to the good in the moment. Because you know what?
We all want results. We all want to be good at what
we do. But it's not always easy to get
the most out of ourselves when we're feeling pressure.
So you've got to take matters into your own hands and plan it
(18:39):
out a little bit. Do you think that it's the
planning out in advance that helps us to cope with the
pressure? Is that one of the most
important factors you think? Yes, I think some people do it
well, naturally, but most peopleare cautious individuals.
If you're thinking of a scale, cautious to aggressive, I mean
we don't want to be at the end of the aggression scale because
(19:01):
that's belligerent and annoying.So we don't need that.
But sort of, you know, a lot of people are sort of, you know,
234, they don't want to take action unless they know it's
going to work out. They're a bit risk adverse.
You know, they're modest, they're humble.
They sit back. Learning to sort of push that up
a little bit is one of the best things we can do for ourselves.
Just, you know, push it up from A3 to A5 just in the moment for
(19:25):
that task, and then go back to the wonderful you.
So to be able to get off of yournatural self, you have to sort
of think it through. If next time this is how I'm
going to handle it, practice it.You're much more likely to do it
the next time. But yeah, it's very important.
It's not just. About the power.
Sky. Yeah, no kidding.
(19:47):
And I love the fact that what we're doing in this conversation
is figuring out how to make success inevitable, right?
Like we're taking, We're trying to figure out ways of making it
less subject to chance. And maybe I'll do well, maybe I
won't. But in fact, I can deliberately
plan out my performance. I can anticipate the challenges
that might come. Remember watching?
(20:07):
Yeah, you're creating predictable performance, which
is spectacular. I watched a documentary on Alex
Honnold. Climbing the Dawn Wall and doing
the without ropes and that was ahuge Cliff.
He did it without ropes or boltsor like free soloing the whole
way up. And one of the interesting
(20:28):
things that he said was that he visualized everything that could
go wrong and what he would do ifit did.
So if he put his hand on a hold and it slipped, what's what's
going to happen? And he had actually pre
visualized that all the way up. And you mentioned daydreaming
and visualization. That's a powerful tool too.
Can you explain that a little bit?
(20:49):
Yes, it to me focused daydreaming is the best.
So a lot of times when you talk visualizing to people, just it's
the same thing. Only my version of it is sort of
a a quick version. I like people to practice in
their heads, get an image and whatever else goes with that
image for, you know, do it for five seconds.
(21:12):
If you do it for five seconds, see how, plan out how you want
to be, practice how you want to be and do that three times a
day. That's actually going to make a
difference. It doesn't seem like, but people
think, oh, I have to sit here for an hour and go through
everything in time and whatnot. If you want to and you like it,
for sure do it. But you don't have to.
Doing it regularly more often isextremely helpful.
(21:35):
You can practice becoming chill,learning how to calm down and
keep your composure. You can practice a skill in your
head, getting better at something.
You can see highlights go over the good stuff.
You can learn to fight back in your head, whether it's on the
field or in a conversation. How am I going to handle just
(21:57):
like the free solo? Or how am I going to handle that
negative situation? Or do I just let it happen?
Or do I fight back? Do I practice fighting back in
my head? And then lastly, step it up,
daydreaming. Change the script.
Be bold, think of something different.
Don't just go with what you got,you know?
(22:20):
Go, babe. So it's almost like my daughter
Ingrid right now learning how togo for it in a race, right?
Like she's you got to figure outat some point there's two
different strategies. You can go out slow, back fast
or out fast and and then just hold on and survive.
The second option is scary, but you could visualize that and see
how it goes before you actually try it in a race.
(22:42):
Yes. And then the more you practice
it and the more you sort of think about it, you can make a
better decision as to what you want to do as opposed to just
saying, OK, well, we'll see whathappens.
It takes courage to try to be good, you know, to try to do
these things. So it sorry say that it takes
courage to try to. Be good.
(23:03):
Yep. To try to be better.
It's not easy to put yourself out there because we do end up
with a bit of self sabotage sometimes.
I really want to do this. I think I can.
OK, but what if I actually really try and it doesn't work
out? Oh, it can't be me.
So we, you know, throw excuses in there to say if it doesn't
(23:27):
work out, just so I'm ready for it.
Well, I knew I wouldn't. I knew that time because you
know what? I didn't practice enough or I
didn't do this on the way out orwhatever it is, I didn't study
up enough. We're always kind of giving
ourselves a soft landing, which is OK unless it's bothering you.
And if you know you could be better, you kind of have to get
(23:50):
those obstacles out of the way. Bye in common, staying there,
talking to yourself, all these skills and planning it.
Isn't it interesting how sometimes the person who holds
us back the most is ourselves? Like that self sabotaging to
keep ourselves safe plays such ahuge role in whether or not we
(24:14):
actually get there. Yes.
And this is the stuff I talk about is a a soft way because
it's a private way to save spaceto figure out, OK, do I really
want to clean this up or am I happy with what I'm doing?
Because if I keep doing what I'mdoing, I'm going to keep getting
(24:34):
what I'm getting, which could befantastic or I want to tweak
this a bit. How do I do this?
You know I'm thinking just even if skill sets I'm thinking I go
back to you know the getting common staying there if I could
just get people to think more about that.
I think if OK NFL quarterback I work with what he has said this
(24:57):
season is you know if I it's actually 2 football guys NFL
this year. I've got to stick with the
breathing because they've got the skills pretty much down and
they've studied all week. If I can just keep the tension a
couple of notches below, you know, not A7.
If I can keep it at A5 or A4, I'm good to go.
(25:22):
It all works out. So they work really hard.
The quarterback, you know, he's,you know, in the huddle.
He's doing his thing, but he's still settling down.
He's waiting for the snap. He's breathing, He's dropping
back in the pocket. He's doing the same thing.
Same with the other guy. He's ready to get off the line
fast. He's ready to go because he's
(25:43):
taken the time to actually tell himself to breathe and settle.
I know it sounds simple. It is.
But it's hard to do if you don'tpay attention.
Funny how it works, right? It is funny.
It's also funny how we think that being like that, we're
going to go. But that leads to tension which
sabotages our ability to perform, and our true potential
(26:04):
lies in relaxed energy, not trying harder.
That's so backwards. It helps your body and it helps
you think and cue into the critical things in the moment.
It could just be one thing you need to be able to do, get off
the line fast. I can get off the line faster if
(26:25):
I'm calmer because in an NFL game, there's not too many
opportunities where people are going to find themselves.
I'm just not. I'm just, you know, whatever.
And I'm too relaxed. No.
No. I might be unfocused, but it's
not that I'm too relaxed. Yeah, you're not too relaxed at
the Olympics. You're not too relaxed at the
(26:47):
sales meeting. You're not too relaxed in a
heated conversation, right? The pressure moments which
define our life to some extent. The magic moments are those
where we need to probably bring ourselves back down into calm
ish. Yes doesn't have to be calm.
It's never going to be perfect. Don't worry about perfect, calm,
ish. It's good enough, and good
(27:10):
enough is great in my books. Love it.
Speaking of getting out of your comfort zone, you wrote a book
recently. I did.
Tell us about the book. OK, well, it's called Dialed in.
Do Your best when it matters most.
And it's for everyone and anyonewho wants to be better or thinks
they can be better. And it goes through busting a
(27:30):
few myths out there that we're all sort of taught that we have
to have in place in order to be successful in our performances.
And I try to push around a few of those, one of them being, you
know, confidence. Everybody thinks they need to be
confident. And I say no, it's overrated.
You might want to be confident, but you don't need to be.
(27:52):
Because really, in the moment itdoesn't matter how you feel, it
matters what you do. So I'm always pushing people to
the do get away from the feel. You can feel it all later, don't
worry. But in the moment it's all about
the do. So things like that.
And then and then it was fun to think through for sure.
(28:14):
And then the second part of the book is actually explaining the
process. How do I perform under pressure?
Here you go, step by step. Boom.
Do it. I think right away about like, I
don't feel like going to the gym, but I'm just going to go to
the gym anyway. And it's the action, not the
feeling that determines whether or not you'll be successful long
term. That's really kind of my mantra
(28:35):
at the moment, going along with just being calm.
Ish, I said. So a friend of mine recently,
They're like, how do you want tofeel when you're on stage and,
like, just not anxious. They're like, that's called
calm. It's like, Oh yes, that's right.
Calm. Fantastic.
So I love that you've put together a book that helps
people walk through this, takes all of the information from, you
know, all of your years of practice.
(28:55):
Is there one sort of story or orfun thing that you discovered
when you were writing your book that that popped in where you're
like, huh, that's kind of a neatlittle piece that just sort of
brought a smile to your face as you were working your way
through creating the book. Well, the one thing I did find,
I quite enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I would or not.
(29:16):
I thought it would, but I did because it gave me a chance to
actually pull all the fun stories and the great clients
that I've worked with in the pros and wherever over the years
and put it out there for people to use so that people can relate
to it and use it for themselves.And I did like put in all what I
(29:41):
had, trying to make it clear like it's not necessarily as
what have you written five books.
Yeah, crazy enough there. They are right.
There, right. OK, wonderful.
But trying to make something like very clear, simple writing
takes a while, and you've reallygot to think it through.
And I love that process. That's cool.
(30:04):
Yeah. It was interesting even like the
ripple effect book. the Super bodies book I wrote first was
way too complicated. It's like a textbook.
And then I just tried to make the ripple effect so simple.
It's like sleep, eat, move, think like literally 4 words.
And that's the one that has doneby far the best, because it is
making all of this, this complexity and making it simple
(30:26):
and digestible and actionable for people.
Yes. Well, in in in my work I've
been, obviously I came from the research world and the hospital
world, but trying to make it applicable to people has been a
real joy because that's what's been fun in my practice, is
(30:47):
having people walk out of the office or on the sideline or,
you know, into an exam, having something that they can use
right away that works and that takes a while to get to.
But it's so wonderful when you can help someone very quickly,
as they say, on the sideline, inthe locker room, on a bus, on a
plane, with the team. They need something fast and
(31:09):
they they need it to work. That's what's been the fun.
Yeah. And that's what I've noticed
over the years of working with you, that you're able to do so
well. I always describe you as like
Dana's a sports psychologist andshe's, you know, one of the
people I've met who in the moment can make an instantaneous
difference to somebody as they're competing to help them
reach their potential. So I love that you're created
(31:30):
the book to help all of us do that a little bit more.
And if people want to learn moreabout you and your work and the
book, where can they go to find out a bit more about you?
They can go to Amazon and they can go to Indigo and they can go
to Doctor Davis, sinclair.com. Perfect.
Dana, thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with
us. I really appreciate your wisdom
(31:52):
and your friendship, and good luck with the book.
It's awesome. And I really appreciate you
taking the time to hang out withus today.
Oh. Thanks very much, Greg.
As I say, always great to see you and we'll we'll chat soon
all. Right everyone, I hope that you
enjoyed that episode with DoctorDana.
Super Awesome. Her new book, Dialed in Do Your
Best When It Matters the Most, is available for pre-order at
(32:13):
doctordanasinclair.com, so if you can check that out, that
would be absolutely fantastic. I'm sure you can tell from that
interview that there is just so much great information that she
can share that can make a huge difference for us.
And when you have a quote from Billie Jean King on the cover of
your book, and specifically the quote is anytime you enter the
Eye of the Storm, you need a guiding light.
(32:35):
And with this book, Dana gives us an inspiring and innovative
path forwards. Like, that's a pretty incredible
quote from a pretty epic human to have on the front of your
book. Definitely check it out.
All right, that's it for this week.
Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Have a great week.
We'll see you again soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!