Jenny He is the Founder and General Partner at Position Ventures, an early-stage venture fund that backs startups with strategic communications from day one. Previously, Jenny led comms at Square and has since helped hundreds of founders land coverage in top outlets like TechCrunch and Forbes. With deep expertise in positioning, storytelling, and PR, she’s on a mission to help startups craft differentiated narratives that drive credibility, legitimacy, and growth.
Discussed in This Episode
- What PR actually is (and isn’t) for startups
- The difference between positioning, storytelling, and PR — and how they stack together
- When PR makes sense and when to hold back on announcements
- Step-by-step process for landing coverage in top outlets like TechCrunch or Forbes
- How to build authentic relationships with reporters before you pitch
- What makes something truly newsworthy: timeliness, impact, relevance
- Tactical advice for pitching, interviews, and amplifying coverage post-launch
- How PR fits into the broader go-to-market motion
Episode Highlights
00:00 — Positioning, storytelling, and PR defined
02:23 — Jenny explains what PR really is and why startups misunderstand it
06:39 — The first step before any PR push: setting clear goals
11:37 — Example of a newsworthy founder story: building an AI radiologist from personal experience
15:17 — The three elements of newsworthiness: timeliness, impact, and relevance
17:42 — Why building warm relationships with reporters is crucial
20:36 — Preparing for the interview itself vs. outreach
22:47 — Amplifying coverage through your network post-publication
25:07 — What PR agencies cost (and why no one can guarantee coverage)
29:18 — Jenny’s #1 book recommendation on positioning
Thanks to Our Sponsor – Clarify:
Clarify is the autonomous CRM built for founders and early-stage teams who want to build more pipeline, close more deals, and spend way less time on busywork.
Clarify automatically enriches your contacts, captures leads from anywhere (even one click from LinkedIn), and keeps your pipeline up to date on its own, so you can focus on winning deals, not updating fields.
If you’re looking to simplify your stack and help your team move faster, check out Clarify.
Recommended Books
- Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind by Al Ries & Jack Trout — Jenny’s #1 recommendation for founders learning positioning fundamentals.
Referenced
- Clarify (autonomous CRM): https://clarify.ai
- TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com
- Forbes: https://forbes.com
- New Lantern (portfolio company example): https://newlantern.ai
- Square: https://squareup.com
Guest Links
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyhe
- X (Twitter): https://x.com/jennydhe
- Website: https://positionventures.com
The GTMnow Podcast
The GTMnow Podcast is a weekly podcast featuring interviews with the top 1% GTM executives, VCs, and founders. Conversations reveal the unshared details behind how they have grown companies, and the go-to-market strategies responsible for shaping that growth.
Visit gtmnow.com for more episodes and other interesting content.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenny He (00:00):
Positioning is really about what is your North Star,
what is the why?
Storytelling, how can we makethat positioning really
memorable and really sticky.
The RP is really more aboutcredibility, the most important
thing about how can we get theright message to the right
people at the right time, andthis right time thing is really
really critical.
Sophie Buonassisi (00:41):
Before we dive in, a quick shout out to a
tool that recently announcedtheir Series A and that we've
been hearing a ton about fromthe GTM Fund community.
It's called Clarify, theautonomous CRM built for
founders and early stage teamswho want to build more pipeline,
close more deals and spend wayless time on busy work.
If you've ever spent more timelogging calls than actually
selling, you'll get why theybuilt it.
Clarify automatically enrichesyour contacts, captures leads
(01:01):
from anywhere, even one clickfrom LinkedIn, and keeps your
pipeline up to date on its own,so you can focus on winning
deals, not updating fields.
The team at SIFT swappedSalesforce for Clarify and cut
their CRM admin by 90%.
Imagine what you could do withall that time back.
If you're looking to simplifyyour stack and help your team
move faster, check out Clarifyat clarifyai.
(01:29):
That's C-L-A-R-I-F-Y dot AI.
This episode demystifies theblack box of PR for startups,
one of the most common areas wehear of startups ask about at
GTM Fund.
Jenny Hayes, the founder andgeneral partner at Position
Ventures, a VC firm that helpsearly stage startups craft
strategic comms from day one.
She has a rich background in PR, including leading comms at
Square, and has helped hundredsof startups land press releases
in their dream outlets.
She breaks down step-by-stephow to successfully get placed
(01:50):
in top outlets like TechCrunchand Forbes.
You'll learn when PR makessense and when it doesn't, how
to build relationships withreporters, how to craft
newsworthy narratives and how toavoid the most common mistakes
founders make around pressreleases.
All right, let's get into it,jenny.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you, how fun, super happyto have you here.
And before we dive in tostrategy and tactics, I want to
(02:16):
clear something up.
What is PR really and why is itsuch a black box for startups?
Jenny He (02:23):
Oh, that's a really good question and I don't know
if everyone can answer thiscorrectly, but PR is actually
about managing the spread ofinformation between you or your
company, and the public or youraudience.
So notice, I didn't say we're apublicist or a growth hacker,
like the goal isn't to get asmany eyeballs as possible,
(02:43):
necessarily.
It's about getting the righteyeballs on the right message at
the right time.
Sophie Buonassisi (02:51):
Great definition, super helpful and,
yeah, really interesting to noteit's not actually about
publicists and what shouldpeople do PR around?
And I know these are simplequestions, but they're helpful.
Just to even take a step backwhat is it good for?
What is it not good for?
Jenny He (03:04):
but they're helpful, just to even take a step back.
What is it good for?
What is it not good for?
Pr is really good for someonewho's looking to build a brand,
build legitimacy, build liketrust with the customer.
I think it's really good forattracting great talent to want
to come work here.
It's good for businessdevelopment, partnerships,
company morale, changing publicperception.
These are all things that PR isreally good for because you
(03:26):
have this almost third-partyvalidation of all the things
that you're saying in yourmarketing.
But in terms of what it's notreally good for, I would say
it's generally not a replacementfor your sales team or anything
like that and at the end of theday, we can bring all the
eyeballs onto the product, butthe product has to work for you
to retain.
Sophie Buonassisi (03:45):
And how do you really differentiate between
positioning, storytelling, pr,all the things that get tossed
around at the same time, and howdo they maybe stack up together
if they do?
Jenny He (03:59):
Yeah, a lot of people kind of mush them together.
Where people might mushpositioning, communications, pr,
branding, social media, contentmarketing altogether.
But I would say thatpositioning is really about what
is your North Star, what is thewhy?
Who is this for?
(04:19):
What is this problem and whatproblem does it solve?
What is your unique anddefensible position in the
market?
Whereas storytelling is moreabout how can we make that
positioning really memorable andreally sticky and almost figure
out how can we tell thesestories to evoke almost like an
(04:41):
emotional or human element to it.
What are the narrative arcs,how can we grab people's
attention, how can we helppeople remember you and your
company and your positioning?
And then, finally, I think thePR piece is really more about
credibility, because thedifference between like PR and
like content marketing is likeyou can write your own blog post
(05:01):
, which is great.
We can talk about how great weare and how great our company is
.
But this third party,validation of a trusted source,
kind of talking about you andtelling your story for you,
that's PR.
There's a joke where if you'reat a party and someone else is
saying, oh, this person is likethe best person at this thing,
that's kind of PR, someone elsetrying to tell the story.
(05:23):
There are a lot of AI companies.
A lot of them are working invery similar spaces.
A lot of the messaging mightlook similar, their websites
might look similar, your salesmaterials might look similar.
People start thinking about howdo we stand out?
How can we come to this?
(05:43):
Really?
A trusted third party talkabout how you guys are the
market leader or the bestsolution for this product.
So if you're selling anenterprise, for example, like
maybe the enterprise wants tobuy the product that they've
read about from various newssources versus a company that
you Google it and can't reallyfind anything outside of their
(06:05):
own content, marketing and blogpost.
Sophie Buonassisi (06:07):
For sure.
Yeah, it gives it thatauthority and credibility to be
able to make a conscious,confident decision.
Okay, I want to gethypothetical here.
Jenny, you advise a ton ofstartup companies on PR,
naturally in your portfolio.
Let's say, startup just raiseda seed or series A and they want
(06:29):
to announce it TechCrunch,forbes, whichever outlet they're
prioritizing.
What's step one?
Where do you get started?
Jenny He (06:39):
Yeah.
So step one is always what areyour goals?
If folks want to go out therewith, like, a big announcement,
we really want to figure outwhat is the goal of that
announcement, because peoplehave really different goals.
Sometimes we'll work with thefounder and their goal is we
want to hire the very best MLengineers.
Or maybe a founder already hasa product with product market
(07:01):
fit and their goal is to justget more people talking about
their product because they'retrying to sell more product.
Or maybe, like, the company istrying to figure out hey, we're
doing great, the product isselling itself, but like, we
want to position ourselves in aplace of, like strength and
power and get people reallyexcited about the company
because we want to go out and doa really big fundraise.
(07:23):
So all these things havedifferent goals and there's
different communicationstrategies to help optimize for
those goals, right?
So if you're trying to hire thevery best engineering talent,
maybe it's more helpful to divedeeper into what makes your
technology really exciting, andthere's certain publications
(07:43):
that are better for that,whereas if your product is
selling to, I don't know, let'ssay, dentists, maybe TechCrunch
or Forbes, it's not quite whereyour customer is spending a lot
of time.
So there's a lot of differentstrategies that we can work with
the founders on and prioritizedepending on what their ultimate
(08:05):
goals are.
But I also think there's aninteresting there's an
interesting dichotomy where,like, a lot of people come to us
and are really excited to dothe PR, but you have to think
about what do we need right nowand what's strategic right now,
like once in a while, dependingon the product and the company
and their goals, the beststrategy is actually we should
(08:28):
probably say nothing for alittle while until we have all
these other things and we canlike come out from like a
position of strength.
So there's a lot of differentways to look at it.
I think the most importantthing about, like again, what we
do, if with like strategiccommunications and PR, is how
can we get the right message tothe right people at the right
(08:50):
time.
And this right time thing isreally really critical, where
maybe we could sit on this newsfor a little while for to have
it aligned with this other time.
That makes more sense and couldbe a bigger splash align with
this other time.
Sophie Buonassisi (09:05):
that makes more sense and could be a bigger
splash Gotcha.
So one of the most frequentthings that we get asked and
overall I'd say our network getsasked is around wanting to get
placed for recruiting purposesand for future investor and
fundraising purposes.
And it's your usualpublications TechCrunch, forbes.
(09:27):
I'd say those are the two mostdominant, and then there's some
kind of secondary, more nicheones that are prioritized.
But I'm curious yourperspective around those two use
cases for large publicationslike TechCrunch or Forbes.
Jenny He (09:41):
Yeah, I think those are like excellent reasons for
people to want to have acommunication strategy.
I think for fundraising andhiring, they're both use cases
where it's really important tohave that third party validation
.
I think it's one thing to claimthat you're the best company to
work at.
It's quite another where peoplecan read about their news, do
their own homework, look intothe actual company, do research,
(10:05):
and I think people kind ofunderestimate how many people
want to be able to read about acompany, send it to their mom
and feel really confident thatthis is a legitimate company
with good runway that's going tobe successful, and I think
that's one way to stand out.
Sophie Buonassisi (10:22):
So let's say they've raised, let's say, a
seed round.
They want to announce it, wantto come out of stealth, but
predominantly to help with thehiring front and help with
future fundraising front.
They've set their goals.
They know those are their goals.
What's the next step?
Jenny He (10:40):
So for hiring and fundraising.
A lot of tech and businessmedia in general is really
helpful.
A lot of tech and businessmedia in general is really
helpful, unless there's in aspecific field where it might
make sense to go more niche intolike specific trade
publications that would behelpful for them.
But in general, I think thevery first step anyone should
take before doing any sort ofcommunications or like public
(11:02):
relations is really figuring outtheir own North Star and their
positioning.
What makes you and your companyreally unique and defensible.
So really understandingyourself, your product, your
customer and the market tofigure out where is there a
white space for us to come inand really own this message is
really helpful.
A reporter and I've alreadyseen like a hundred companies
(11:25):
doing the same thing Like youhave to be so differentiated for
us to be really excited to bewriting about you.
I mean, I can give you anexample.
So one of our portfoliocompanies the company is called
New Lantern.
They are building an AIradiologist and when I met this
(11:50):
founder and I heard his story itwas really hitting like a
bullseye.
He was his mother was actuallyone of the best radiologists in
America, according to all theselike industry awards.
And then during COVID, heliterally was stuck in their
basement working like at a deskright next to his mom and
watching her do work andwatching that workflow and
realizing, hey, she's like thenumber one radiologist in
America and this is, these arethe tools that you're using.
(12:11):
This is crazy.
You could be using your time inmuch more productive ways.
And he actually built a brandnew platform and his mom was
like the very first customer andthey brought in like all these
other radiologists on theplatform and they have like a
very, very I would say like I'mbiased, but I think they have a
very, very strong leadingproduct now.
But the story of why thisfounder is building this thing
(12:33):
was very, very clear.
Sophie Buonassisi (12:34):
Yeah, cause that's so unique to that
particular founder situation.
Jenny He (12:39):
A lot of it is really understanding your customer.
So first we need to reallyfigure out how confident are you
that this is your ICP customer?
Sometimes people already havesome sort of product market fit
and we can work with thecustomers they already have.
Sometimes they're really early.
They have a hypothesis.
This is maybe the customerwe're trying to reach.
(12:59):
We think this is the messagingthat resonates with them.
But, like, once you have yourICP customer ideally a lot of
them we want to be able tofigure out how can we
communicate the positioning ofyour product in the words
through the lens of yourcustomer, right?
So your customer probably knowsyou really well if they're
(13:20):
happy customers of exactly whatpain points you're solving for
them and how can we positionyour business to explain that to
other potential potentialcustomers.
That fits within your icp groupgot it once you have your north
star in your positioning andyou're really confident.
This is what makes us uniqueand differentiated like.
The next step is figuring outwhat is the news, what is this
(13:43):
news moment that we're excitedto share right now, because
there could be a lot ofdifferent things going on, but
what is this particular storyyou want to tell?
And that could be a fundraisingannouncement, it could be a new
hire, it could be a bigcustomer, it could be a new
partnership.
But whatever is newsworthy isgoing to anchor the story and
(14:03):
announcement, and there's acouple things that makes things
newsworthy, like the very.
The most important thing is ithas to be timely.
What is happening right now?
And why do we have to writeabout the story right now?
Because sometimes we might havean announcement that isn't nice
to have, like maybe you couldwrite it now or in two weeks
from now and it wouldn't reallymake a difference.
(14:24):
But the more we could putbehind the announcement, the
better.
So the timely minutes is reallyimportant.
Impact is really important,right?
So if it's like impacting a lotof people, a lot of customers,
if it's impacting an entirespace in a certain way because
of this product, that'simportant.
The relevance to the audienceis also really important.
So this comes back to likefirst, we need to decide what
(14:46):
audience we want to talk to,based on the goals, but is this
really relevant to that audience?
And how do we tailor the storyto be relevant to this audience
so they're really excited aboutit?
And then just thinking aboutwhat could make this prominent
and newsworthy, right, whetherit's a really big name that
we're working with or like a bigannouncement, a big fundraise,
(15:06):
like whatever we can to makethis newsworthy, is going to
help you be more successful indoing your PR.
Sophie Buonassisi (15:17):
So the core components of something being
newsworthy primarily, it soundslike, would be timeliness,
impact and relevance to audience.
Yeah, yeah.
Jenny He (15:26):
Those are all really important.
Sophie Buonassisi (15:28):
Super tactical and helpful.
Jenny He (15:29):
I love it.
You've identified that audiencethat you're trying to reach and
then it's really figuring out.
Okay, this is the audience,this is the story, how do we
reach them?
And, depending on your audience, your audience hangs out or
reads different things, right,so they hang out in different
places.
They might be at certainconferences or listen to certain
podcasts or read certain newsoutlets.
(15:49):
So, based on that, trying tofigure out how can we meet our
customer where they are and fromthere, just trying to figure
out, these are the best outletsthat would make sense to tell
these stories because it'sreally relevant to their
audience, it's impactful, it'stimely, all the things line up.
And then it's really aboutgoing out there pitching your
story.
So you have your press releaseor blog post already, you've
(16:11):
done your homework and justpitching the story and sharing,
about sharing the news and whyit's relevant to that audience
and is really impactful andtimely.
Sophie Buonassisi (16:24):
Got it Okay.
So figure out where youraudience lives, and that sounds
like wherever they live is whereI want to pitch right.
So if they're really nicheindustrial, I want to pitch a
unique industrial outlet.
Jenny He (16:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it depends onyour goal.
If you're trying to reach thatcustomer, if you're trying to
fundraise, then maybe, likegeneral tech and business
outlets, would work for thisfundraising goal.
Sophie Buonassisi (16:46):
Would a startup have to pitch an
exclusive to those?
Jenny He (16:49):
outlets.
I think it depends on the storyand the reporters you want to
work with.
There are a lot of reporterswho, like only want to do
exclusives, right.
So really knowing your audience, just like probably any other,
like sales cycle, right, reallyknowing your audience,
understanding what they want andgiving them what they want,
making their life really easy.
So if you've done your researchand they only want exclusive,
that makes your life easy,whereas sometimes there's like
(17:11):
very large round that everyone'sexcited about and they might
want to be in severalpublications.
Sophie Buonassisi (17:17):
And then what does that actual outreach
process?
Jenny He (17:20):
look like Kind of the reporters reporting in your
space and hopefully have alreadybeen able to get to know them
and offer value to them before.
So a lot of people actuallydon't think of this ahead of
time.
So the first time they pitchthem that might be the first
time, which not to say it's notpossible, but it's always better
to have a warm relationship,right.
(17:42):
So if you've already followedtheir writing and you're like,
hey, I'm really excited andinterested in what you're doing.
I can add a lot of value to inthese different places.
We have data, we have customers, we have whatever you can do to
be a resource I think is reallyhelpful.
So in the ideal world you couldalready have built that
relationship and have beenreally helpful.
(18:03):
So when you have some news thatyou think is really relevant to
their audience and would be ofinterest to them, they already
have that warm relationship withyou.
We understand everyone's busybuilding their company, so not
everyone you know has done that,but if you can, that is better.
Sophie Buonassisi (18:18):
Yeah, always better to have a warm
relationship for any kind ofoutreach.
What kind of value could astartup provide to a reporter?
Jenny He (18:25):
So it depends.
Some reporters are on X andsocial media and things like
that and sometimes they'llactually ask for certain things.
So if they're asking for acertain thing and you're able to
help connect them with whateverthey're looking for, that
always helps.
But I think it's really aboutunderstanding their audience and
(18:45):
understanding what they wouldbe interested in, because we
only want to offer value.
Like you never want to be in asituation where you're
constantly offering not valuablethings.
Yeah, that's probably a goodway to burn a relationship right
.
So really doing your homework,understanding what people want
and then trying to be helpfulthat takes work right.
(19:06):
Like I'll sit down with thefounder and be like tell me
everything from the day you wereborn until now and why you have
to be building this particularcompany.
We're trying to figure out whatthe story is.
Sophie Buonassisi (19:18):
I love how it all boils down to story at the
end of the day.
Okay, so whether it's warm orcold, we're at the outreach
stage.
Any tips around that outreach?
Any kind of tactical nuggetsthat a startup should know?
Jenny He (19:34):
It's really about figuring out how can we make
this newsworthy?
How can I get someone excitedto read it?
Just like I want to be excitedto click on a headline and read
the story, your pitch has to besomething that makes me excited
to open this email right.
So this comes back to what isthe story?
What makes it different andunique?
How is it impactful?
How is it prominent?
How is it timely?
Sophie Buonassisi (19:57):
Yeah, Okay.
And say someone respondswhether it's an exclusive, not
an exclusive, what should afounder expect in that response?
Jenny He (20:07):
Yeah, I mean, if someone's like interested in
learning more about the story,you might hop on a call and they
might ask you some questions tolearn more, and that's great
because they want to learn moreand write like a thorough, deep
story about you and the company.
So really figuring out what arethe stories and talking points
and things you want to hit whenyou have that conversation is
(20:30):
also really important yes, verytrue, that's a good call out
because it's super differentthan the actual outreach itself.
Sophie Buonassisi (20:36):
The outreach is one, it's more of a condensed
, shorter part.
And then the interview prep isanother area of its own right,
and just because you get aninterview yeah, you want to be
prepared.
Jenny He (20:47):
Sorry.
Sophie Buonassisi (20:48):
No, go for it .
Jenny He (20:49):
To understand, like hear all the different anecdotes
and stories and, um, maybe youcould have like some third party
experts kind of like weighingin to like make this like a
really rich and compelling story.
Sophie Buonassisi (21:04):
No, that definitely makes sense.
I've heard a lot of folksadvising around, offering
testimonials, offering externalthird parties to weigh in on
quotes, whether it's customers,investors so I know that for us,
that's always a strategy thatwe employ.
Jenny He (21:20):
Yeah, no for sure.
I think the more meat on thebone we can get to the story,
the better.
So we want to do all that workup front and be able to offer
this all in like a nice, neatpackage and just be like really
prepared and thoughtful aboutwhy this is genuinely
(21:40):
interesting to that audience andjust because you get an
interview does not mean thatthey will publish a piece,
correct?
Yeah, that's right I, it's likethe story has to be there.
Sophie Buonassisi (21:53):
Yeah, Usually you get a feel on the interview
itself from the actualinterviewer and they'll start
using language that refers towhen it's published and you kind
of get a sense.
But I have heard that it's notalways the case and to be
mentally prepared for that too.
And so they've had theinterview, the startups had the
interview.
Let's say they nailed it.
(22:15):
Hopefully they nail it.
What's the next stage look likeafter the interview itself and
how do you help prepare?
Jenny He (22:19):
founders.
Well, hopefully, hopefully theynailed it and it's a story that
the reporter is really excitedabout.
Next is like trying to figureout if there's any anything you
can do to help follow up.
If there's any missing piecesthat they might want and you'll
probably talk about this duringthe interview, right, they might
be like, oh, can we connectwith this person or get this
data or see this report so theymight ask for a couple things.
(22:40):
So, being really timely on thatand getting them what they need
as fast as possible is good,and then just trying to figure
out what timing works.
Ideally, if you're flexible,like you kind of work with the
reporter and their timeline, bemore flexible about when the
story is going to go out.
And I think another piece islike trying to figure out how
can we amplify the story once itcomes out, which is something
(23:01):
like people maybe don't thinkabout.
Like maybe we've agreed, thisis the embargo date, the story
is going to come out this day.
How can we get as many peopletalking about it as possible?
And that could be like you, thefounder, reaching out to your
network, your investors, theemployees, like everyone being
like, hey, this is somethingwe're excited about.
We'd love if you could read itor share it.
Sophie Buonassisi (23:20):
Definitely activating that network.
I was just chatting with acompany yesterday and we're
planning a launch for them andthey asked me about influencers
and leveraging them for theirlaunch.
Do you have any thoughts andopinions around influencers
specifically and folks that areless attuned with your product,
especially if you're coming outof stealth but have a great
reach to your potentialcustomers or whatever goal that
(23:42):
you land on?
Jenny He (23:44):
Something really important is they have to be
very educated about your productbecause you don't want someone
who's not really sure whatyou're doing talking about your
product.
Sophie Buonassisi (23:53):
People see through it.
Jenny He (23:55):
Right.
So we definitely want that tobe an authentic relationship, if
that's what you decide to do.
But yeah, we've worked withcompanies where we'll do an
announcement and maybe there's alot of very relevant technical
AI influencers in the space thatgenuinely love your product and
want to kind of talk about itand share it.
I think that's great, but ithas to come from a genuine place
(24:17):
.
Sophie Buonassisi (24:18):
Yeah, yeah, and that's, I think, part of the
issue when you're coming intostealth is you've got your
design partners, you've got yourearly companies and customers,
but a lot of these influencersdon't know you.
It would be a monetary exchange, a very transactional one.
Jenny He (24:36):
If you have a truly interesting technology that
people are excited about, we'veseen very notable influencers
just proactively, from a pureinterest perspective, just share
it and that's been veryinfluential because that's
probably the most honest andgenuine feedback.
What about from a price?
Sophie Buonassisi (24:54):
point perspective, let's say they
don't want to do it themselves.
You know, company isn't luckyenough to be working with a
partner like yourself that'ssuper specialized in PR, so you
might be looking to more of acontractor agency option.
Jenny He (25:07):
I've seen it across the board.
I've worked with all sorts ofconsultants agencies and folks
over the years.
I've seen it across the board.
I've worked with all sorts ofconsultants agencies and folks
over the years.
I would say it could beanywhere from depending on what
you're looking for and how manyhours they want to commit and
where you're based.
All these things factor intothe price, but it could be
anywhere from a couple thousanddollars to tens and thousands of
(25:28):
dollars a month.
To really clear right like youcould pay tens of thousands of
dollars a month for a retainerbut no one can guarantee
coverage, right.
Everything like like a techranch or whatever is doing like
it's editorial what's somethingthat you wish?
Sophie Buonassisi (25:44):
more founders believed about going to press.
Maybe they knew or believedabout going to press.
Jenny He (25:53):
I think a lot of it is about storytelling.
I think sometimes everyone's so, I don't know practical and
focused on executing.
But sometimes we have to take astep back and really figure out
what is the story, what are thehuman elements to this and what
makes this interesting.
Sophie Buonassisi (26:15):
And how should founders think about PR
as part of their broadergo-to-market motion?
Jenny He (26:22):
Oh, that's a great question.
So this is where everyone kindof sometimes will bucket PR and
marketing, go-to-market like allin the same bucket, social
media, all in the same bucket,and they don't realize there's
actually a different agency foreach of those things If you
actually wanted to outsourcethose functions.
So they're so different and itdepends on what you want to
(26:43):
double down on in your business.
So there are some founders whodecide PR is like really
important, we're going to doubledown that.
Some people want to double downon their go-to-market motion.
Some people want to do socialmedia.
Some people want to do content.
Like figuring out what worksfor your business and is the
best bang for your buck.
I think is like reallyimportant Cause, like, as you
understand your customer, as youunderstand what's working to
(27:04):
reach them, you should probablyinvest more time and resources
in that particular vertical.
Sophie Buonassisi (27:10):
You should probably invest more time and
resources in that particularvertical.
So let's say we went throughthe whole process that you
showed us.
We're now at the end, it'slaunched.
It was a huge success, or Iguess.
How do we?
Jenny He (27:21):
define that success.
So I think success should bedefined before you start, right?
This goes back to our goalsetting.
Like you don't want to be in asituation where you're like we
this, but was this successful?
You should know these were thegoals and a lot of it is around.
This is the story we want totell to this audience and this
is the messaging, the story andthe sentiment.
(27:43):
Right?
I think a miss is sometimespeople are so focused on the
publication that they forgetabout hey, what matters is like
what story they're telling.
So I think if you have likevery clear stories, soundbites,
sentiments that you want comeacross in that story and you see
(28:03):
those as the end result, thenthat's success, brilliant.
What's one widely held PR beliefthat you think is bullshit or
not really serving us anymore?
(28:25):
You know everything going onwith social media and being able
to create content and goingdirect.
I think there's some merit tothat.
You're like I think it's greatif you can create content and go
direct and all these things,but there's like third party
validation of trusted longstanding outlets and sources and
(28:45):
reporters.
I think it still matters, butagain, I think it depends on how
you want to reach your customerand what you want to embrace.
I've seen startups verysuccessfully decide they want to
do everything on social mediaand it works for them.
But it depends on your customer, who you're selling to and if
you're able to reach yourcustomer there.
Sophie Buonassisi (29:04):
Incredible.
And, jenny, are there any booksthat you found particularly
helpful throughout your careerthat you'd recommend to any
founder or overall operator orinvestor listening?
Jenny He (29:18):
Oh, the number one book everyone should read I tell
all my founders to read it isPositioning the Battle for your
Mind.
So this is.
It's an old book, it's almost20 years old but it's like the
you know, 101 in all things,positioning and probably your
go-to book until I write mypositioning book.
Sophie Buonassisi (29:35):
You heard it here first, everyone, and I
think we'll be one of the firstto support it when you do go
live.
So let us know.
If ever you are writing thebook, oh, absolutely, I'll send
you a case, please do, please do.
We'll get it on the bookshelf.
And overall, where can peoplefind you, jenny?
Jenny He (29:51):
Please do, please do Get it on the bookshelf.
And, overall, where can peoplefind you, jenny?
Yeah, so we're atpositionventurescom so you could
learn more about us and thefirm and what we're investing in
these days.
And if we can be helpful, feelfree to reach out, thank you.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:00):
Thank you, that's great.
We'll drop it in the show notesand I know we did a little bit
of a recap at the beginning, butwould you mind just sharing for
everyone a quick kind of noteon Position Ventures.
What are you focused on?
What's helpful?
Jenny He (30:15):
What kind of founders should be keeping an eye on
position and how are you helping?
Yeah, so Position Ventures isan early stage venture fund.
We invest at pre-seed seed andour goal is to be really helpful
collaborative partners.
So we write small checks from$100,000 to $500,000.
And our goal is to really bealmost like a super angel on
your cap table to help with allthings positioning and
communications.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:35):
Well, it's something that we see all the
time on our side at GPDM Fund isthe importance of positioning,
the importance of PR, so I canimagine that that is incredibly
valuable strategic capital onthe cap table.
Love what you're working on andthank you for sharing it here
with the audience.
To Capital on the cap table.
Love what you're working on andthank you for sharing it here
with the audience.
Jenny He (30:50):
Thank you, sophie, this was fun you bet.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:51):
Thank you to all our listeners and we will
catch you next week.
Positioning is really about what is your North Star,
what is the why?
Storytelling, how can we makethat positioning really
memorable and really sticky.
The RP is really more aboutcredibility, the most important
thing about how can we get theright message to the right
people at the right time, andthis right time thing is really
really critical.
Sophie Buonassisi (00:41):
Before we dive in, a quick shout out to a
tool that recently announcedtheir Series A and that we've
been hearing a ton about fromthe GTM Fund community.
It's called Clarify, theautonomous CRM built for
founders and early stage teamswho want to build more pipeline,
close more deals and spend wayless time on busy work.
If you've ever spent more timelogging calls than actually
selling, you'll get why theybuilt it.
Clarify automatically enrichesyour contacts, captures leads
(01:01):
from anywhere, even one clickfrom LinkedIn, and keeps your
pipeline up to date on its own,so you can focus on winning
deals, not updating fields.
The team at SIFT swappedSalesforce for Clarify and cut
their CRM admin by 90%.
Imagine what you could do withall that time back.
If you're looking to simplifyyour stack and help your team
move faster, check out Clarifyat clarifyai.
(01:29):
That's C-L-A-R-I-F-Y dot AI.
This episode demystifies theblack box of PR for startups,
one of the most common areas wehear of startups ask about at
GTM Fund.
Jenny Hayes, the founder andgeneral partner at Position
Ventures, a VC firm that helpsearly stage startups craft
strategic comms from day one.
She has a rich background in PR, including leading comms at
Square, and has helped hundredsof startups land press releases
in their dream outlets.
She breaks down step-by-stephow to successfully get placed
(01:50):
in top outlets like TechCrunchand Forbes.
You'll learn when PR makessense and when it doesn't, how
to build relationships withreporters, how to craft
newsworthy narratives and how toavoid the most common mistakes
founders make around pressreleases.
All right, let's get into it,jenny.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you, how fun, super happyto have you here.
And before we dive in tostrategy and tactics, I want to
(02:16):
clear something up.
What is PR really and why is itsuch a black box for startups?
Jenny He (02:23):
Oh, that's a really good question and I don't know
if everyone can answer thiscorrectly, but PR is actually
about managing the spread ofinformation between you or your
company, and the public or youraudience.
So notice, I didn't say we're apublicist or a growth hacker,
like the goal isn't to get asmany eyeballs as possible,
(02:43):
necessarily.
It's about getting the righteyeballs on the right message at
the right time.
Sophie Buonassisi (02:51):
Great definition, super helpful and,
yeah, really interesting to noteit's not actually about
publicists and what shouldpeople do PR around?
And I know these are simplequestions, but they're helpful.
Just to even take a step backwhat is it good for?
What is it not good for?
Jenny He (03:04):
but they're helpful, just to even take a step back.
What is it good for?
What is it not good for?
Pr is really good for someonewho's looking to build a brand,
build legitimacy, build liketrust with the customer.
I think it's really good forattracting great talent to want
to come work here.
It's good for businessdevelopment, partnerships,
company morale, changing publicperception.
These are all things that PR isreally good for because you
(03:26):
have this almost third-partyvalidation of all the things
that you're saying in yourmarketing.
But in terms of what it's notreally good for, I would say
it's generally not a replacementfor your sales team or anything
like that and at the end of theday, we can bring all the
eyeballs onto the product, butthe product has to work for you
to retain.
Sophie Buonassisi (03:45):
And how do you really differentiate between
positioning, storytelling, pr,all the things that get tossed
around at the same time, and howdo they maybe stack up together
if they do?
Jenny He (03:59):
Yeah, a lot of people kind of mush them together.
Where people might mushpositioning, communications, pr,
branding, social media, contentmarketing altogether.
But I would say thatpositioning is really about what
is your North Star, what is thewhy?
Who is this for?
(04:19):
What is this problem and whatproblem does it solve?
What is your unique anddefensible position in the
market?
Whereas storytelling is moreabout how can we make that
positioning really memorable andreally sticky and almost figure
out how can we tell thesestories to evoke almost like an
(04:41):
emotional or human element to it.
What are the narrative arcs,how can we grab people's
attention, how can we helppeople remember you and your
company and your positioning?
And then, finally, I think thePR piece is really more about
credibility, because thedifference between like PR and
like content marketing is likeyou can write your own blog post
(05:01):
, which is great.
We can talk about how great weare and how great our company is
.
But this third party,validation of a trusted source,
kind of talking about you andtelling your story for you,
that's PR.
There's a joke where if you'reat a party and someone else is
saying, oh, this person is likethe best person at this thing,
that's kind of PR, someone elsetrying to tell the story.
(05:23):
There are a lot of AI companies.
A lot of them are working invery similar spaces.
A lot of the messaging mightlook similar, their websites
might look similar, your salesmaterials might look similar.
People start thinking about howdo we stand out?
How can we come to this?
(05:43):
Really?
A trusted third party talkabout how you guys are the
market leader or the bestsolution for this product.
So if you're selling anenterprise, for example, like
maybe the enterprise wants tobuy the product that they've
read about from various newssources versus a company that
you Google it and can't reallyfind anything outside of their
(06:05):
own content, marketing and blogpost.
Sophie Buonassisi (06:07):
For sure.
Yeah, it gives it thatauthority and credibility to be
able to make a conscious,confident decision.
Okay, I want to gethypothetical here.
Jenny, you advise a ton ofstartup companies on PR,
naturally in your portfolio.
Let's say, startup just raiseda seed or series A and they want
(06:29):
to announce it TechCrunch,forbes, whichever outlet they're
prioritizing.
What's step one?
Where do you get started?
Jenny He (06:39):
Yeah.
So step one is always what areyour goals?
If folks want to go out therewith, like, a big announcement,
we really want to figure outwhat is the goal of that
announcement, because peoplehave really different goals.
Sometimes we'll work with thefounder and their goal is we
want to hire the very best MLengineers.
Or maybe a founder already hasa product with product market
(07:01):
fit and their goal is to justget more people talking about
their product because they'retrying to sell more product.
Or maybe, like, the company istrying to figure out hey, we're
doing great, the product isselling itself, but like, we
want to position ourselves in aplace of, like strength and
power and get people reallyexcited about the company
because we want to go out and doa really big fundraise.
(07:23):
So all these things havedifferent goals and there's
different communicationstrategies to help optimize for
those goals, right?
So if you're trying to hire thevery best engineering talent,
maybe it's more helpful to divedeeper into what makes your
technology really exciting, andthere's certain publications
(07:43):
that are better for that,whereas if your product is
selling to, I don't know, let'ssay, dentists, maybe TechCrunch
or Forbes, it's not quite whereyour customer is spending a lot
of time.
So there's a lot of differentstrategies that we can work with
the founders on and prioritizedepending on what their ultimate
(08:05):
goals are.
But I also think there's aninteresting there's an
interesting dichotomy where,like, a lot of people come to us
and are really excited to dothe PR, but you have to think
about what do we need right nowand what's strategic right now,
like once in a while, dependingon the product and the company
and their goals, the beststrategy is actually we should
(08:28):
probably say nothing for alittle while until we have all
these other things and we canlike come out from like a
position of strength.
So there's a lot of differentways to look at it.
I think the most importantthing about, like again, what we
do, if with like strategiccommunications and PR, is how
can we get the right message tothe right people at the right
(08:50):
time.
And this right time thing isreally really critical, where
maybe we could sit on this newsfor a little while for to have
it aligned with this other time.
That makes more sense and couldbe a bigger splash align with
this other time.
Sophie Buonassisi (09:05):
that makes more sense and could be a bigger
splash Gotcha.
So one of the most frequentthings that we get asked and
overall I'd say our network getsasked is around wanting to get
placed for recruiting purposesand for future investor and
fundraising purposes.
And it's your usualpublications TechCrunch, forbes.
(09:27):
I'd say those are the two mostdominant, and then there's some
kind of secondary, more nicheones that are prioritized.
But I'm curious yourperspective around those two use
cases for large publicationslike TechCrunch or Forbes.
Jenny He (09:41):
Yeah, I think those are like excellent reasons for
people to want to have acommunication strategy.
I think for fundraising andhiring, they're both use cases
where it's really important tohave that third party validation
.
I think it's one thing to claimthat you're the best company to
work at.
It's quite another where peoplecan read about their news, do
their own homework, look intothe actual company, do research,
(10:05):
and I think people kind ofunderestimate how many people
want to be able to read about acompany, send it to their mom
and feel really confident thatthis is a legitimate company
with good runway that's going tobe successful, and I think
that's one way to stand out.
Sophie Buonassisi (10:22):
So let's say they've raised, let's say, a
seed round.
They want to announce it, wantto come out of stealth, but
predominantly to help with thehiring front and help with
future fundraising front.
They've set their goals.
They know those are their goals.
What's the next step?
Jenny He (10:40):
So for hiring and fundraising.
A lot of tech and businessmedia in general is really
helpful.
A lot of tech and businessmedia in general is really
helpful, unless there's in aspecific field where it might
make sense to go more niche intolike specific trade
publications that would behelpful for them.
But in general, I think thevery first step anyone should
take before doing any sort ofcommunications or like public
(11:02):
relations is really figuring outtheir own North Star and their
positioning.
What makes you and your companyreally unique and defensible.
So really understandingyourself, your product, your
customer and the market tofigure out where is there a
white space for us to come inand really own this message is
really helpful.
A reporter and I've alreadyseen like a hundred companies
(11:25):
doing the same thing Like youhave to be so differentiated for
us to be really excited to bewriting about you.
I mean, I can give you anexample.
So one of our portfoliocompanies the company is called
New Lantern.
They are building an AIradiologist and when I met this
(11:50):
founder and I heard his story itwas really hitting like a
bullseye.
He was his mother was actuallyone of the best radiologists in
America, according to all theselike industry awards.
And then during COVID, heliterally was stuck in their
basement working like at a deskright next to his mom and
watching her do work andwatching that workflow and
realizing, hey, she's like thenumber one radiologist in
America and this is, these arethe tools that you're using.
(12:11):
This is crazy.
You could be using your time inmuch more productive ways.
And he actually built a brandnew platform and his mom was
like the very first customer andthey brought in like all these
other radiologists on theplatform and they have like a
very, very I would say like I'mbiased, but I think they have a
very, very strong leadingproduct now.
But the story of why thisfounder is building this thing
(12:33):
was very, very clear.
Sophie Buonassisi (12:34):
Yeah, cause that's so unique to that
particular founder situation.
Jenny He (12:39):
A lot of it is really understanding your customer.
So first we need to reallyfigure out how confident are you
that this is your ICP customer?
Sometimes people already havesome sort of product market fit
and we can work with thecustomers they already have.
Sometimes they're really early.
They have a hypothesis.
This is maybe the customerwe're trying to reach.
(12:59):
We think this is the messagingthat resonates with them.
But, like, once you have yourICP customer ideally a lot of
them we want to be able tofigure out how can we
communicate the positioning ofyour product in the words
through the lens of yourcustomer, right?
So your customer probably knowsyou really well if they're
(13:20):
happy customers of exactly whatpain points you're solving for
them and how can we positionyour business to explain that to
other potential potentialcustomers.
That fits within your icp groupgot it once you have your north
star in your positioning andyou're really confident.
This is what makes us uniqueand differentiated like.
The next step is figuring outwhat is the news, what is this
(13:43):
news moment that we're excitedto share right now, because
there could be a lot ofdifferent things going on, but
what is this particular storyyou want to tell?
And that could be a fundraisingannouncement, it could be a new
hire, it could be a bigcustomer, it could be a new
partnership.
But whatever is newsworthy isgoing to anchor the story and
(14:03):
announcement, and there's acouple things that makes things
newsworthy, like the very.
The most important thing is ithas to be timely.
What is happening right now?
And why do we have to writeabout the story right now?
Because sometimes we might havean announcement that isn't nice
to have, like maybe you couldwrite it now or in two weeks
from now and it wouldn't reallymake a difference.
(14:24):
But the more we could putbehind the announcement, the
better.
So the timely minutes is reallyimportant.
Impact is really important,right?
So if it's like impacting a lotof people, a lot of customers,
if it's impacting an entirespace in a certain way because
of this product, that'simportant.
The relevance to the audienceis also really important.
So this comes back to likefirst, we need to decide what
(14:46):
audience we want to talk to,based on the goals, but is this
really relevant to that audience?
And how do we tailor the storyto be relevant to this audience
so they're really excited aboutit?
And then just thinking aboutwhat could make this prominent
and newsworthy, right, whetherit's a really big name that
we're working with or like a bigannouncement, a big fundraise,
(15:06):
like whatever we can to makethis newsworthy, is going to
help you be more successful indoing your PR.
Sophie Buonassisi (15:17):
So the core components of something being
newsworthy primarily, it soundslike, would be timeliness,
impact and relevance to audience.
Yeah, yeah.
Jenny He (15:26):
Those are all really important.
Sophie Buonassisi (15:28):
Super tactical and helpful.
Jenny He (15:29):
I love it.
You've identified that audiencethat you're trying to reach and
then it's really figuring out.
Okay, this is the audience,this is the story, how do we
reach them?
And, depending on your audience, your audience hangs out or
reads different things, right,so they hang out in different
places.
They might be at certainconferences or listen to certain
podcasts or read certain newsoutlets.
(15:49):
So, based on that, trying tofigure out how can we meet our
customer where they are and fromthere, just trying to figure
out, these are the best outletsthat would make sense to tell
these stories because it'sreally relevant to their
audience, it's impactful, it'stimely, all the things line up.
And then it's really aboutgoing out there pitching your
story.
So you have your press releaseor blog post already, you've
(16:11):
done your homework and justpitching the story and sharing,
about sharing the news and whyit's relevant to that audience
and is really impactful andtimely.
Sophie Buonassisi (16:24):
Got it Okay.
So figure out where youraudience lives, and that sounds
like wherever they live is whereI want to pitch right.
So if they're really nicheindustrial, I want to pitch a
unique industrial outlet.
Jenny He (16:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it depends onyour goal.
If you're trying to reach thatcustomer, if you're trying to
fundraise, then maybe, likegeneral tech and business
outlets, would work for thisfundraising goal.
Sophie Buonassisi (16:46):
Would a startup have to pitch an
exclusive to those?
Jenny He (16:49):
outlets.
I think it depends on the storyand the reporters you want to
work with.
There are a lot of reporterswho, like only want to do
exclusives, right.
So really knowing your audience, just like probably any other,
like sales cycle, right, reallyknowing your audience,
understanding what they want andgiving them what they want,
making their life really easy.
So if you've done your researchand they only want exclusive,
that makes your life easy,whereas sometimes there's like
(17:11):
very large round that everyone'sexcited about and they might
want to be in severalpublications.
Sophie Buonassisi (17:17):
And then what does that actual outreach
process?
Jenny He (17:20):
look like Kind of the reporters reporting in your
space and hopefully have alreadybeen able to get to know them
and offer value to them before.
So a lot of people actuallydon't think of this ahead of
time.
So the first time they pitchthem that might be the first
time, which not to say it's notpossible, but it's always better
to have a warm relationship,right.
(17:42):
So if you've already followedtheir writing and you're like,
hey, I'm really excited andinterested in what you're doing.
I can add a lot of value to inthese different places.
We have data, we have customers, we have whatever you can do to
be a resource I think is reallyhelpful.
So in the ideal world you couldalready have built that
relationship and have beenreally helpful.
(18:03):
So when you have some news thatyou think is really relevant to
their audience and would be ofinterest to them, they already
have that warm relationship withyou.
We understand everyone's busybuilding their company, so not
everyone you know has done that,but if you can, that is better.
Sophie Buonassisi (18:18):
Yeah, always better to have a warm
relationship for any kind ofoutreach.
What kind of value could astartup provide to a reporter?
Jenny He (18:25):
So it depends.
Some reporters are on X andsocial media and things like
that and sometimes they'llactually ask for certain things.
So if they're asking for acertain thing and you're able to
help connect them with whateverthey're looking for, that
always helps.
But I think it's really aboutunderstanding their audience and
(18:45):
understanding what they wouldbe interested in, because we
only want to offer value.
Like you never want to be in asituation where you're
constantly offering not valuablethings.
Yeah, that's probably a goodway to burn a relationship right
.
So really doing your homework,understanding what people want
and then trying to be helpfulthat takes work right.
(19:06):
Like I'll sit down with thefounder and be like tell me
everything from the day you wereborn until now and why you have
to be building this particularcompany.
We're trying to figure out whatthe story is.
Sophie Buonassisi (19:18):
I love how it all boils down to story at the
end of the day.
Okay, so whether it's warm orcold, we're at the outreach
stage.
Any tips around that outreach?
Any kind of tactical nuggetsthat a startup should know?
Jenny He (19:34):
It's really about figuring out how can we make
this newsworthy?
How can I get someone excitedto read it?
Just like I want to be excitedto click on a headline and read
the story, your pitch has to besomething that makes me excited
to open this email right.
So this comes back to what isthe story?
What makes it different andunique?
How is it impactful?
How is it prominent?
How is it timely?
Sophie Buonassisi (19:57):
Yeah, Okay.
And say someone respondswhether it's an exclusive, not
an exclusive, what should afounder expect in that response?
Jenny He (20:07):
Yeah, I mean, if someone's like interested in
learning more about the story,you might hop on a call and they
might ask you some questions tolearn more, and that's great
because they want to learn moreand write like a thorough, deep
story about you and the company.
So really figuring out what arethe stories and talking points
and things you want to hit whenyou have that conversation is
(20:30):
also really important yes, verytrue, that's a good call out
because it's super differentthan the actual outreach itself.
Sophie Buonassisi (20:36):
The outreach is one, it's more of a condensed
, shorter part.
And then the interview prep isanother area of its own right,
and just because you get aninterview yeah, you want to be
prepared.
Jenny He (20:47):
Sorry.
Sophie Buonassisi (20:48):
No, go for it .
Jenny He (20:49):
To understand, like hear all the different anecdotes
and stories and, um, maybe youcould have like some third party
experts kind of like weighingin to like make this like a
really rich and compelling story.
Sophie Buonassisi (21:04):
No, that definitely makes sense.
I've heard a lot of folksadvising around, offering
testimonials, offering externalthird parties to weigh in on
quotes, whether it's customers,investors so I know that for us,
that's always a strategy thatwe employ.
Jenny He (21:20):
Yeah, no for sure.
I think the more meat on thebone we can get to the story,
the better.
So we want to do all that workup front and be able to offer
this all in like a nice, neatpackage and just be like really
prepared and thoughtful aboutwhy this is genuinely
(21:40):
interesting to that audience andjust because you get an
interview does not mean thatthey will publish a piece,
correct?
Yeah, that's right I, it's likethe story has to be there.
Sophie Buonassisi (21:53):
Yeah, Usually you get a feel on the interview
itself from the actualinterviewer and they'll start
using language that refers towhen it's published and you kind
of get a sense.
But I have heard that it's notalways the case and to be
mentally prepared for that too.
And so they've had theinterview, the startups had the
interview.
Let's say they nailed it.
(22:15):
Hopefully they nail it.
What's the next stage look likeafter the interview itself and
how do you help prepare?
Jenny He (22:19):
founders.
Well, hopefully, hopefully theynailed it and it's a story that
the reporter is really excitedabout.
Next is like trying to figureout if there's any anything you
can do to help follow up.
If there's any missing piecesthat they might want and you'll
probably talk about this duringthe interview, right, they might
be like, oh, can we connectwith this person or get this
data or see this report so theymight ask for a couple things.
(22:40):
So, being really timely on thatand getting them what they need
as fast as possible is good,and then just trying to figure
out what timing works.
Ideally, if you're flexible,like you kind of work with the
reporter and their timeline, bemore flexible about when the
story is going to go out.
And I think another piece islike trying to figure out how
can we amplify the story once itcomes out, which is something
(23:01):
like people maybe don't thinkabout.
Like maybe we've agreed, thisis the embargo date, the story
is going to come out this day.
How can we get as many peopletalking about it as possible?
And that could be like you, thefounder, reaching out to your
network, your investors, theemployees, like everyone being
like, hey, this is somethingwe're excited about.
We'd love if you could read itor share it.
Sophie Buonassisi (23:20):
Definitely activating that network.
I was just chatting with acompany yesterday and we're
planning a launch for them andthey asked me about influencers
and leveraging them for theirlaunch.
Do you have any thoughts andopinions around influencers
specifically and folks that areless attuned with your product,
especially if you're coming outof stealth but have a great
reach to your potentialcustomers or whatever goal that
(23:42):
you land on?
Jenny He (23:44):
Something really important is they have to be
very educated about your productbecause you don't want someone
who's not really sure whatyou're doing talking about your
product.
Sophie Buonassisi (23:53):
People see through it.
Jenny He (23:55):
Right.
So we definitely want that tobe an authentic relationship, if
that's what you decide to do.
But yeah, we've worked withcompanies where we'll do an
announcement and maybe there's alot of very relevant technical
AI influencers in the space thatgenuinely love your product and
want to kind of talk about itand share it.
I think that's great, but ithas to come from a genuine place
(24:17):
.
Sophie Buonassisi (24:18):
Yeah, yeah, and that's, I think, part of the
issue when you're coming intostealth is you've got your
design partners, you've got yourearly companies and customers,
but a lot of these influencersdon't know you.
It would be a monetary exchange, a very transactional one.
Jenny He (24:36):
If you have a truly interesting technology that
people are excited about, we'veseen very notable influencers
just proactively, from a pureinterest perspective, just share
it and that's been veryinfluential because that's
probably the most honest andgenuine feedback.
What about from a price?
Sophie Buonassisi (24:54):
point perspective, let's say they
don't want to do it themselves.
You know, company isn't luckyenough to be working with a
partner like yourself that'ssuper specialized in PR, so you
might be looking to more of acontractor agency option.
Jenny He (25:07):
I've seen it across the board.
I've worked with all sorts ofconsultants agencies and folks
over the years.
I've seen it across the board.
I've worked with all sorts ofconsultants agencies and folks
over the years.
I would say it could beanywhere from depending on what
you're looking for and how manyhours they want to commit and
where you're based.
All these things factor intothe price, but it could be
anywhere from a couple thousanddollars to tens and thousands of
(25:28):
dollars a month.
To really clear right like youcould pay tens of thousands of
dollars a month for a retainerbut no one can guarantee
coverage, right.
Everything like like a techranch or whatever is doing like
it's editorial what's somethingthat you wish?
Sophie Buonassisi (25:44):
more founders believed about going to press.
Maybe they knew or believedabout going to press.
Jenny He (25:53):
I think a lot of it is about storytelling.
I think sometimes everyone's so, I don't know practical and
focused on executing.
But sometimes we have to take astep back and really figure out
what is the story, what are thehuman elements to this and what
makes this interesting.
Sophie Buonassisi (26:15):
And how should founders think about PR
as part of their broadergo-to-market motion?
Jenny He (26:22):
Oh, that's a great question.
So this is where everyone kindof sometimes will bucket PR and
marketing, go-to-market like allin the same bucket, social
media, all in the same bucket,and they don't realize there's
actually a different agency foreach of those things If you
actually wanted to outsourcethose functions.
So they're so different and itdepends on what you want to
(26:43):
double down on in your business.
So there are some founders whodecide PR is like really
important, we're going to doubledown that.
Some people want to double downon their go-to-market motion.
Some people want to do socialmedia.
Some people want to do content.
Like figuring out what worksfor your business and is the
best bang for your buck.
I think is like reallyimportant Cause, like, as you
understand your customer, as youunderstand what's working to
(27:04):
reach them, you should probablyinvest more time and resources
in that particular vertical.
Sophie Buonassisi (27:10):
You should probably invest more time and
resources in that particularvertical.
So let's say we went throughthe whole process that you
showed us.
We're now at the end, it'slaunched.
It was a huge success, or Iguess.
How do we?
Jenny He (27:21):
define that success.
So I think success should bedefined before you start, right?
This goes back to our goalsetting.
Like you don't want to be in asituation where you're like we
this, but was this successful?
You should know these were thegoals and a lot of it is around.
This is the story we want totell to this audience and this
is the messaging, the story andthe sentiment.
(27:43):
Right?
I think a miss is sometimespeople are so focused on the
publication that they forgetabout hey, what matters is like
what story they're telling.
So I think if you have likevery clear stories, soundbites,
sentiments that you want comeacross in that story and you see
(28:03):
those as the end result, thenthat's success, brilliant.
What's one widely held PR beliefthat you think is bullshit or
not really serving us anymore?
(28:25):
You know everything going onwith social media and being able
to create content and goingdirect.
I think there's some merit tothat.
You're like I think it's greatif you can create content and go
direct and all these things,but there's like third party
validation of trusted longstanding outlets and sources and
(28:45):
reporters.
I think it still matters, butagain, I think it depends on how
you want to reach your customerand what you want to embrace.
I've seen startups verysuccessfully decide they want to
do everything on social mediaand it works for them.
But it depends on your customer, who you're selling to and if
you're able to reach yourcustomer there.
Sophie Buonassisi (29:04):
Incredible.
And, jenny, are there any booksthat you found particularly
helpful throughout your careerthat you'd recommend to any
founder or overall operator orinvestor listening?
Jenny He (29:18):
Oh, the number one book everyone should read I tell
all my founders to read it isPositioning the Battle for your
Mind.
So this is.
It's an old book, it's almost20 years old but it's like the
you know, 101 in all things,positioning and probably your
go-to book until I write mypositioning book.
Sophie Buonassisi (29:35):
You heard it here first, everyone, and I
think we'll be one of the firstto support it when you do go
live.
So let us know.
If ever you are writing thebook, oh, absolutely, I'll send
you a case, please do, please do.
We'll get it on the bookshelf.
And overall, where can peoplefind you, jenny?
Jenny He (29:51):
Please do, please do Get it on the bookshelf.
And, overall, where can peoplefind you, jenny?
Yeah, so we're atpositionventurescom so you could
learn more about us and thefirm and what we're investing in
these days.
And if we can be helpful, feelfree to reach out, thank you.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:00):
Thank you, that's great.
We'll drop it in the show notesand I know we did a little bit
of a recap at the beginning, butwould you mind just sharing for
everyone a quick kind of noteon Position Ventures.
What are you focused on?
What's helpful?
Jenny He (30:15):
What kind of founders should be keeping an eye on
position and how are you helping?
Yeah, so Position Ventures isan early stage venture fund.
We invest at pre-seed seed andour goal is to be really helpful
collaborative partners.
So we write small checks from$100,000 to $500,000.
And our goal is to really bealmost like a super angel on
your cap table to help with allthings positioning and
communications.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:35):
Well, it's something that we see all the
time on our side at GPDM Fund isthe importance of positioning,
the importance of PR, so I canimagine that that is incredibly
valuable strategic capital onthe cap table.
Love what you're working on andthank you for sharing it here
with the audience.
To Capital on the cap table.
Love what you're working on andthank you for sharing it here
with the audience.
Jenny He (30:50):
Thank you, sophie, this was fun you bet.
Sophie Buonassisi (30:51):
Thank you to all our listeners and we will
catch you next week.
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