February 16, 2024 • 38 mins
Join us on The Guy Who Knows A Guy Podcast as Michael Whitehouse sits down with Jeff West, a renowned author and sales expert with decades of experience transforming the sales landscape. Dive into Jeff's journey of authoring award-winning business parables and uncover the insights that have made him a pivotal figure in sales and entrepreneurship.
Mentioned in this episode:
JV Connect, December 12-13, 2023
Join us for JV Connect, the dedicated networking event December 12th and 13th, 2023 https://www.jv-connect.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Whitehouse (00:03):
Welcome back to the Guy Who Knows A Guy podcast.
These are bonus episodes thatdid not fit into Season 6, which
was a countdown to JV Connect.
We hit JV Connect and we still had somegreat interviews to share with you.
But don't worry, youhaven't missed JV Connect.
It's a quarterly event.
You can learn more about it by stickingaround to the end of this episode.
We'll tell you all about it.
But right now, check out this nextawesome interview with one of the awesome
(00:26):
people that the Guy Who Knows A Guy knowsand is going to introduce to you now.
Jeff West (00:31):
Welcome
Michael Whitehouse (00:36):
to the guy who knows a guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows a guy.
And our guest today is Jeff West.
Let me tell you about Jeff.
After over 30 years in sales, sales,leadership, and entrepreneurship.
Jeff West is now a best sellingand award winning author,
speaker, and leadership coach.
His books, the unexpected tourguide and said the lady with the
blue hair coauthored with directsales legend, Lisa M Wilbur, who I.
(01:00):
Thought I had her on my show, butmaybe I had her on a different show.
I don't know.
We were talking about that beforehand,but I definitely have met her.
Definitely know her.
She's awesome.
Anyway, those books have earnedrecognition from the Axiom Business Book
Awards, the National Indie ExcellenceAwards, and the American Book Fest Awards.
His latest book, Streetwise to SalesWise Become Objection Proof and Beat
the Sales Blues, co authored with BobBerg, who you may remember from earlier
(01:24):
this season, and is earning praisefrom business leaders around the U.
S.
He has been a guest on numerous salesleadership shows and is a member of
the GoGiver Success Alliance createdby Bob Berg and Kathy Tagenow.
Jeff West (01:36):
Welcome to the show, Jeff.
My honor.
Thank you so much forhaving me on board, Michael.
Awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (01:42):
Yes.
So, so we were talking earlier, causeyou, you you talk about becoming objection
proof and creating fusion points.
And when I was going through the notes yousent me, I said, okay, objection proof.
If I can.
I don't know what that is exactly,but I can guess what that means.
And you talk about the scienceof how people make decisions.
Important.
Can kind of figure out what that means.
And then fusion points.
(02:03):
What's that mean?
So tell us, let's start with there.
What, tell us about a fusion points
Jeff West (02:06):
and what that means.
You know, Fusion Points is actually abranding that I did, Michael, that grew
out of my question that I had when I wasleading a team of about 400 salespeople.
And that was, I could gettwo people in the same room.
Their resumes looked similar,their leadership skills looked
right, everything about them toldme they'll both be very successful
(02:28):
out there in the field of sales.
And then I would put them out thereand one would decide to stick it
out and be great, and the otherwould make the decision to quit.
And it puzzled me why that happened.
So I began to study the scienceof how people make decisions.
And long story short, I ranacross the works of a Dr.
Antonio Damasio, who was a professorof neuroscience at USC and an associate
(02:51):
professor at the Salk Institute.
Long story short, the entireprocess is built around the
idea that people make decisions.
only when they can connectlogic and emotion together.
No one makes a purely logical decision.
No one makes a purely emotional decision.
It's that combination that happens.
And if it's a negative emotionin our brain, two things happen.
(03:15):
Number one, it sends asomatic marker into our chest.
We start feeling funny.
We have a physiologicalresponse that we don't like.
We don't want to go forward.
So whatever logically we weretrying to do at the time, the
decision is to get away from it.
On the other hand, The use of positiveemotional responses between our ears
when that touches our chest and createsa physical, physical sensation for us,
(03:39):
that is a sensation that people love.
And so when you combine that with alogic that you're trying to accomplish
at the time, it creates tenacity.
It creates so many good things.
So I basically, I define a fusionpoint is that moment in time.
It's a unique point where logic andpositive emotion merge and ignite,
(03:59):
and it creates acceleration, itcreates commitment, it creates energy,
and it moves the process forward.
And what I do is I teach salespeoplehow to do that in a sales process,
but I teach entrepreneurs and smallbusiness owners how to create that
in their market and with their team.
Michael Whitehouse (04:14):
Yeah, that's, that's powerful.
And so it would not only be to makeprospects move forward with the
process, but to your team and yourself.
move forward with the business and, and Iimagine this would also probably help with
some of the, the morning routine stuff,the getting from sleeping to working and.
Absolutely.
(04:35):
You know, bouncing back from a challengingsituation, those, those sorts of things.
Jeff West (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, and when it comes tobuilding a business or growing a sales
career, your success, your futureisn't determined by the economy.
It's not determined bythe political landscape.
It's not even determinedby your competition.
It's determined by how one simplequestion is answered by your
prospects in the market, by yoursales team by the, your support
(05:02):
staff, the people that work for you.
It's how they answer one simple question.
And it's when it comes totheir relationship with you.
Will they persist or will they quit?
If you learn how to work within thescience of how we're naturally built
anyway, what it does is it equipsyou to have some influence over those
decisions that they want to stay withyou and move forward in the process.
(05:24):
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (05:24):
Yep.
Very powerful.
So we were talking earlier because thetheme of the show is around networking.
And of course you're part of the,the go getter success Alliance.
So tell me a bit about you know, what,what that's done for you and you know,
how networking has helped you build
Jeff West (05:40):
your business.
Well, that's a great question.
You know, when I guess it was,I can remember exactly, it was
in January of the year 2000.
A sales mentor of mine, I was inthe insurance industry at that time.
I was in North Texas and I was adistrict manager for the insurance
carrier that I was working with.
Still self employed, buthad, had overrides involved.
(06:01):
And a sales mentor of mine gave metwo books and it changed my world.
One was John Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Lawsof Leadership, a great leadership book.
But the second one.
Was a book I had neverheard of by an author.
I had no clue who he was.
And it was endless referrals byBob Burke and reading those 2 books
(06:24):
and applying what I learned fromthose, even though they didn't
necessarily apply to my industry.
I adapted them to my industrythat made all the difference.
And it's my career went from being anaverage district manager that would would.
Make my numbers onetime, miss them one time.
And I wasn't in danger of gettingfired, but I wasn't a superstar either.
But two years after I implemented what Ilearned at Endless Referrals, which was
(06:46):
basically built around the idea of whatproper networking is, I, at that time,
two years later, I was a regional manager.
Two years after that,I was a state manager.
And I was a state manager the last10 years of my career in insurance
till I decided to start writing andspeaking and doing this for a living.
But to me, networking isall about focusing on.
How you can provide value to the otherpeople in the network and how you can make
(07:10):
those connections, you know and when Iwas reading in those referrals, one of the
things that I saw in that book that justjumped out at me and I have implemented
it in everything I've done since then,is asking the person that you're working
with at the time, what do I need toknow when I'm out there in the field?
What do I need to know to it to makesure if someone I run into is a good
(07:33):
referral for me to send your way?
And you think about the magicin the networking process.
If everyone is focused last like thatand you start making those connections.
Everybody wins.
And Bob was talking about doing itin networking events and all that
in the book and in other placestoo, but that was the primary focus.
Talking about don't give yourcards out and say, or have an
elevator pitch or whatever ready.
(07:55):
It was talking about really workingon making the connections for
people and providing that value.
So how it directly appliedand helped my career take off.
I began to develop a network, areferral network of my existing clients.
I, at that time I probably had200 different clients that were
employers and I was involved intheir employee benefit program.
(08:18):
I went in and I asked I told one of theowners, it was a place in downtown Dallas,
Texas on the 23rd floor of a building.
And I don't like heights all that mucheither, but I had a meeting with a.
Owner of the, of a mortgage company, itwas one of my clients and I had called
him ahead of time saying, I want to pickyour brain about a couple of things.
And he said, sure.
So we got there.
And the first thing I did, I sat down withhim and I said, you know, the first thing
(08:41):
I want to do before I ask you what I'mgoing to ask you is tell you, thank you.
He said, for what?
And I said, I feed my family by providing,getting involved in employee benefits
and providing the services that we offer.
And I am, that's how I, that'show everything in my life outside
of work works effectively.
And I just want to thank youbecause you're a part of that.
(09:02):
And I appreciate that.
Of course it was true.
And of course heappreciated the compliment.
And I said, but I wantto ask you a question.
And he said, what?
And I said, I am out there inthe marketplace all the time.
I'm contacting new companies.
I've got existing clients.
I need to ask you a question.
What do I need to belooking for out there?
What questions do I need to be askingpeople to know if they would be a
(09:25):
good referral for me to send your way?
I want to return thefavor and help you too.
And I'll tell you what he did, Michael.
I'll never forget this.
I actually wrote the scene into my firstbook, The Unexpected Tour Guide, but
he said, He took off his glasses andhe laid them on his table and he said,
I'm going to answer that question, butI have to tell you something first.
And I said, what?
(09:45):
And he said, I've beenin business 30 years.
I've had a lot of salespeopleask me for referrals.
This is the first time ever asalesperson has ever asked me how
they could refer business to me.
Thank you.
And of course, the discussionjust got even better.
And he told me what to look for.
I had already kind of planneda couple of things in my head.
(10:08):
And so I said, well,hang on just a second.
And I picked up my cell phone andI called a client that I felt like
would be a good referral for him.
And I got him on the phone and I said,Hey, I just want to ask you a question.
I've got another client who does,who owns a mortgage company.
He's starting to do some thingswith employers and their employees.
I think.
He would be somebody you should talk to.
(10:29):
I think somebody that, that it'sa good connection there for you.
Would you mind if I gave himyour contact information?
Person said, no, that'd be perfectly fine.
And I said, I'll tell you, I knowthe guy I've known him for a while.
I like him and I trust him.
And I think you guys will get along well.
And I said, he said, great.
So I hung up the phone and I didthat in front of the person that
I was given the referral to.
(10:49):
And so that worked out longstory short, he and I keep saying
long story short too many times.
If I were writing, I would edit,I would edit that out, but he and
I developed a referral network.
We would have lunches where he wouldhave, we'd have it at his place and
his business and we'd invite some ofhis clients, some of my clients, and we
(11:10):
just began to take it off from there.
And I also began to teach that in my team.
And it wasn't just that I did it andI was great at it, it was also I was
pretty darn good at equipping the othersaround me to know how to do that too.
So that's why when it really took off.
So that's how networking forme made all the difference.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's
Michael Whitehouse (11:28):
it.
What I love about that is there's nothingnew to me in the basic principle that
asks people how you can help them.
But the way you did very intentionallywith your clients, because we often
think about this with our networkor the people are meeting in.
In networking, but to actuallyask your client explicitly,
you know, how can I refer?
And even the, if you can, if youcan make a referral, that's great.
(11:52):
And even if you can't, maybe theysay something and you're like
I've never met anyone like that.
That's yeah.
Yeah.
Well, well really I'm lookingfor a, you know, a one legged
midget who's into basketball.
Oh, that's interesting.
I'll keep an eye out for the, youknow, you don't have one, but just
the fact that you asked, right.
Cause that's, if I, you know, in, innetworking events, I find to the extent
(12:12):
that I, I catch people flat footed.
I asked them like, sowho are you here to meet?
Who's your, if you can beatanyone in the County, who
would you like to connect with?
Oh, I don't know.
I'm just looking to get outthere and see who's there.
Like, really, you dohave a business, right?
Like, do you know your customers really?
But, but yeah, they're so not used tothat because they're used to everyone
coming up and being like, hi, I'm Michael.
(12:33):
I do this.
And you know, so and so hiresme over this and whatever.
But that idea of deepening therelationship with your client for that.
And.
That's such a better way than saying, whoelse do you know who I should talk to?
Because like who else do I knowfor you to get a sales pitch to?
I don't know.
Versus how can I help you?
Right.
How can I refer to you?
You don't even have toask him for referrals.
(12:55):
He's going to most people, once you'veintroduced them to one or two people,
they're going to be like, okay, Ireally need to refer you to someone
now, just so I can feel better.
Like you're giving me so much.
I, you haven't even asked for anything.
I got to give something in return.
So that, that's a really powerful concept.
I
Jeff West (13:09):
love it.
Well, you know, the, an interesting thingtoo, and you touched on it there is when
someone's asking for referrals in anycontext to, to just ask doesn't work
very well, but if you get specific andyou ask deeper questions that does the
same process here, when you ask someone.
What do I need to be asking people?
What do I need to be looking forout there to know if they're a
(13:31):
good referral that's in your way?
It gets them thinking deeper.
And so it works well.
And it actually creates a fusion point,like I described earlier, because what I
did at that point is I created a hugelypositive emotional response in my client.
And I had a, I had a positiveemotional response with him
anyway, but, but I created that.
(13:52):
And then I combined it with a logic ofgetting, helping him do more business.
And when I did that, itcreated a fusion points.
And until I got promoted and moved away,we, we, we stayed in contact pretty well.
Yeah, that's,
Michael Whitehouse (14:03):
that's hugely powerful concept.
And, and I love that idea of that.
You're creating the, and then theother, and you mentioned specific.
And one of the things that'simportant about specific is.
You know, if it'd be an eye, whichis where I, I started networking,
I find B and I is often thetraining wheels of networking.
Like everyone started thereand then they sort of build up.
(14:24):
And, and often it'd be, I, the, the,the, the ass are not very specific.
They're like, Oh, anyone with a spine?
I'm a chiropractor.
Yeah.
I'm like, okay, yes.
Everyone has a spine.
No, I'm not going to refer anyone.
Cause that's not them.
But if somebody, every once ina while, someone gets really
specific and excessively specific.
And.
You know, if somebody says, yeah, so, somy the clients I'm really looking for are.
(14:50):
You know, gray haired guys namedJeff with a Texas accent and a
background in the insurance industry.
aNd, and, you know, I want to talkto them so I can make an offer.
If I was to reach out to him and belike, Jeff, you will not believe what
the ask was of this BNI meeting I was at.
He said, gray haired guys namedJeff with a Texas accent who
worked in the insurance industry.
You want to meet him?
(15:10):
And he'd be like, sure.
Yeah.
Like that's me.
Okay.
I don't even I'm
Jeff West (15:14):
your guy, and I know you like
Michael Whitehouse (15:15):
you're interesting, but that's you need me.
Awesome.
And so there's such power inthat because you feel special.
Right.
Whereas be like, Hey, yeah, anyonewho needs insurance send them.
Oh yeah, you need insurance.
Right.
But if it's right, if it's yeah, thisweek, I'm focused on people who have
a ordinal directions in their name.
Jeff, you won't believe this.
I would just ask forit to be an eye group.
(15:36):
That makes it easy.
Cause cause then it's, it's you.
It's not just, it's not just right.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yep.
So that has been being very powerful.
Yeah.
And so, so you're, you're telling aboutthe actually, yeah, you're telling me
the story about, about Lisa Wilbur.
I think that was an interestingone too, how you ended up co
authoring the book with her.
Cause it's funny, I, Imet her a few years ago.
(15:57):
I think I may have, may have hadher on my Power Launch Live show.
I swear I had her on one of these shows.
I don't know.
Once you get to 200 something episodes,it all starts to blur together.
But I think it was interesting when youwere sharing the story of how you ended
up co authoring that book with her.
Said the lady with the blue hair.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Jeff West (16:12):
Lisa and I were both in a group that Bob Berg has, Bob Berg and
Kathy Tejanil, the Goal Giver SuccessAlliance, and we were on one of the first
Zoom calls for that group, and it's amentoring community great group of people.
It's, it's literally my favorite hourevery week, but the, the first meeting
Lisa was on there too, and peopledon't know this about Lisa when you
first see her, first meet her, she'sAvon's Fifth highest earner in history.
(16:37):
She's huge in direct sales and shewas only, and she had blue hair.
And she was a little bit self consciousabout it because even though she's
been super, super successful, she justa little bit self conscious about it.
And so she felt theneed to get on the call.
And so she got the screen andshe was telling the story of why
she got blue hair and she had.
(16:58):
She told the reason she had madethe decision to do that, but
then she added a little thing.
She said, you know, if you ever want tostop being less judgmental, I'm gonna
do this in Lisa's accent best I can.
If you ever want to, you ever want to stopbeing less or start being less judgmental
in your life, dye your hair blue.
This is working for me.
He says, I can be in a grocery store andsee a young lady who her skirt's a little
(17:21):
too tight, her skirt's a little too short.
And I can think, wow, skirt isjust too short and tight, said
the lady with the blue hair.
And so she said that I'mlistening and I'm cracking up.
And I type in the chat, Hey, Lisasaid the lady with the blue hair
would make an awesome book title.
Cause at this point I had beenwriting and speaking for a while
(17:44):
and I had not done any coauthorshipsand so long story, I said it again.
I'm going to stop.
I'm going to start saying short storylong, but what happened is about a
year, year and a half later, I guessit was when I decided to change
my business model a little bit.
And instead of just writing my own books,go ahead and do some co authorships,
(18:04):
kind of like what Bob Berg and JohnDavid Mann did with The Go Giver.
And I reached out to her andwe, that's what we did with
The Lady with the Blue Hair.
And it's, it's, that book too alsoled into my co authorship with Bob.
Bob and I've actually known eachother for, 20 plus years now.
We met in 2003, I think it was.
(18:28):
And so when, and if there'senough story, I'll tell you
that how we met, it's hilarious.
But, and just that relationship,we've become friends over the years.
He approached me about doing speakinggigs with Aflac, which was the
insurance carrier that I was with.
And so I helped him as much as I could.
And then, as I became a state manager, Ihad him come in and speak with our group.
I, I literally wrote letters ofreferral to every single state office
(18:50):
with Aflac because Bob's that great.
And, so as, as the time went on andeverything Bob does, I tend to tend to
jump in there and get involved with it.
And so having that successfulcollaboration with Lisa is kind of
what led into the collaboration withBob on street wise to sales wise.
We were.
It was about fourth quarter last year, Iguess it was, and Bob was sending me an
(19:13):
email about something he was going to do,and he wanted to know my thoughts on it.
It was a publication he wasabout to do about objections.
And I said and just as a comment inthere, that it wasn't even something
he was really thinking about, but hesaid, by the way, keep this because
when we do our parable, this will besomething we might want to refer back to.
So I replied to his email and I puta little PS and said, by the way, If
(19:37):
you're serious, that answer is yes.
And so we began talking abouthe, he had this objection proof
manuscript that he'd had for years.
And he was thinking aboutdoing something with it.
He never, he never published the, theactual work and he, it was a how to book.
And so when it comes to, he decided hereally would rather do it as a parable.
(20:00):
So he approached me last yearand It kind of went from there.
It's set in New Orleans, and I'll, we'llget into more of that if you'd like.
Michael Whitehouse (20:08):
Yeah, yeah, tell me about it.
Actually, my next question isgoing to be tell me about the book.
Oh, okay, cool.
Jeff West (20:14):
It's called Streetwise to Saleswise.
Become objection proofand beat the sales blues.
And it's a sales parable,or a business parable.
It's what I like to write the most.
I will write non fiction.
And I've been technically a parableis nonfiction, but it, but across it,
it's like, it's it saddles over fictionon one side and business on the other
(20:35):
side, but it's set in new Orleans.
It's the story about a youngsalesperson who grew up on the
streets of new Orleans and he lets hismouth get ahead of him a little bit.
And I won't go into too muchbecause I loved, I love the story.
Don't you guys to read it, but it's yeah.
He, he, he finds himself out of thatjob and then he gets a job in sales and
(20:58):
he had no clue he was going to do that.
It wasn't something he intended.
And so what we do in the story we,we take him through his growth.
From a brand new person who knowsnothing about sales all the way
through a year where he's really doingwell And we weave in the fabric of
new orleans when I write a parable.
I'm john david man who was bob's co authoron the go giver he is my writing coach.
(21:20):
He is someone who's been a mentor tome a friend As a matter of fact, in the
new book, he's somebody I mentioned inthe dedication because he's, he's just
been that awesome for helping my craftand I, I wasn't a slouch before, but
I'm several levels better now that I'veworked with John because he's awesome,
but it's like 30 something books, nineNew York Times bestsellers anyway.
(21:41):
In the process of doing this, onething I learned from John is I like
to write the geography of a locationalmost as if it's part of a character.
So in New Orleans, I've, I've gota music background myself, so I
love the music of New Orleans.
I love the Food of New Orleans.
So it's, it's just what beenone of the places that I'll go.
And I was sitting there with my wifeand I believe it was on new Year's
(22:04):
Eve, maybe the day before New Year'sEve going from 2022 into 2023.
And I knew the material wewere going to use in the book.
We're going to use some of my salestraining, which we did, my leadership
training, which we did, and thesame with Bob, some of his sales
and leadership training as well.
But I didn't reallyhave the story idea yet.
And we were sitting in New Orleans mid tolate afternoon, and we're on a balcony of
(22:26):
a restaurant, and we're just enjoying theday, having a glass of wine, and a street
performer started performing out there andI love street performers in New Orleans.
I just do.
I can't help myself.
I sat there and literally, Michael, thestory came to me and I knew the entire
story arc with major and minor characters.
(22:46):
From the get go now, it evolvedover the year that when I'd
write a book, and that's not, Idon't turn it down in 30 days.
I say here, buy this.
I don't do that.
I'll make it.
I try to do a really great jobwith it, but it, we work in
the flavors of New Orleans.
We work in secondarycharacters that people.
Have told me they can kind of fall inlove with and we do some unusual things
(23:07):
that I did in the audible version.
I actually I throw a surprise in there.
I'll just leave it at that.
It's a musical surprise thatI throw in for everybody,
Michael Whitehouse (23:14):
but nice.
So, so, so audible is whereI should go listen to that.
Jeff West (23:19):
Yeah.
I'm one of these people, I buy a bookthat I like in every, in every format.
I tell people, if you want thehardback, go to Barnes and Noble,
their delivery times are so fastand it's the best for the hardback.
If you want the ebook or even the audiobook, you can go to Amazon because it's
immediate delivery on both of those.
But I tend to have it at all because Ilike having my entire library on my phone.
(23:43):
Every book that I have,I've got on my phone.
I can be on a plane.
I can read.
I also, I like, I like holdingup a hard book in my hand.
I'll just, I like having thatthere so I can take notes, but I
have so fallen in love with audiobooks over the last few years.
One of my favorite writers infiction is Michael Connolly and I'll
listen to the Bosch series or theLincoln Lawyer series and I'll, I'll
(24:07):
just, I can, I can do it for hours.
I really can.
Michael Whitehouse (24:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're, they're really well done.
Yeah.
Or some of them are really well donein terms of the, the voice actors
and the performances and, and justreally has a, it's funny sometimes I
listen to an audio book and the, thereader will read it in a certain way.
I'm like, there's no waythat's written in the book.
You know, like they'll make a sound like,there's no way it says, ah, in the book
(24:32):
or, you know, that sound or or, or it'llsay, you know, you know, he choked out
and they actually say, you know The waythey, they say it, it's just really,
it's more of a performance, just likesomebody reading you a book and it's
very powerful, but, but the other, I lovethe business parable format and there's
not a lot of them out there, but yeah,the go giver of course is a great one.
(24:53):
And, and I think the great thing abouta, a business parable is it makes
you want to read the whole thing.
Most business books.
Most people tell you they, they,and I've heard people say, this is
actually how they read them on purpose.
They read the first quarter.
That's kind of the main part of the book.
And then the rest of thisapplication, they skip that part.
Cause they've already gotthe, the nugget of it.
And then, you know, they move on.
But with the business parable,you know, you listen to the go
(25:14):
giver, you want to get to the end.
I listened to a one minute millionaireand I was actually really surprised
because oftentimes the businessparable, it's, it's a story structure.
In order to give structure to whatthey're teaching, but they're still,
you know, teaching something unlessthey want to be a millionaire and I'm
like, wait, there's actually like astory arc and tension and, and conflict
(25:34):
among minor characters and twists.
And like, this is actually areal story that's also a pair
of like, wow, this is the nextlevel, you know, next level stuff.
So, and it sounds like that's what you'redoing with, with your book as well as
streetwise sales wise that, that it'seven if you're not learning to sell.
It's an interesting story about aguy in New Orleans and, and like
(25:56):
visiting a city and all that, whichis, is a really cool way to learn.
And that's what's really goingto draw people through books.
It did if, if I had a.
If I had a nickel for every time Iread part of a book, I'd have a lot
Jeff West (26:07):
of nickels.
You know, you make such agreat point there, Michael.
If a book can't grab me or grab you orgrab anybody pretty darn quickly you
can, you can lose interest in it andthen you want to go do something else.
And one of the things that is one ofmy favorite compliments I ever get
when someone tells me if, especiallymy, I have friends that will read
my books and they're not in sales.
(26:28):
And when they tell me the story wasso good, I couldn't put it down.
I read it.
Cover to cover on one sitting.
That's a big deal to me.
Yep But the audio book one of the thingsI love about that and you'll appreciate
this It's audio is a good format andit what happens is Whether someone's
an entrepreneur or just in a corporateworld and they're leading a team that the
leadership lessons that are in the bookAnd the sales lessons in the book, it is
(26:53):
so much like you're literally sitting sideby side with your mentor in a live selling
situation or in a live conflict situation.
If you're in a business andsomeone is showing you, okay,
this is how you'd handle this.
And it's, it's, it bringsa lot of value that way.
Yeah.
But, and it
Michael Whitehouse (27:08):
makes it very, very clear you know, what this actually means
to me, because often they go through.
thAt's one of the things I found inone minute people have explained to me
the concept of you can buy real estatewith No with no cash a bunch of times
and people try to explain how and i'mlike, okay, I think I did you did I
think you did that It's only when Iheard it told in a narrative format
and they're like and then she talked tothis person and this person explained
(27:30):
This is what our money is and thenthey did like Oh, that's how it works.
Okay, because you're doing itin theory, then it is very dry.
You're like, okay, wait,hold on and go, go back.
What was that thinking?
But when you're listening to thestory narratively, then it gives
you that framework because that's,you know, humans are built to
exchange knowledge and stories.
(27:50):
We're not built to exchange, you know,just dry, like, here's a list of technical
terms and then apply that in this way.
And then at step 14, youwill find this result.
You need.
You need stories to provide astructural framework for your, your
ancient human brain to understand
Jeff West (28:06):
it.
You know, it loops right backaround to a fusion point because
what happens in a parable?
Or in a good narrative, eventeaching a how to book like that.
It connects an emotional part of yourbrain with the logical part of your brain.
And just like in a fusion board whereit moves things forward, people get
comfortable taking the next step.
People also retain what they're tryingto learn so much better that way.
Michael Whitehouse (28:27):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And, and I think also, you know, ifyou're coming along with the, you know,
think about like with the go giver.
There's the, the emotional arc of, of Ican't remember the main character's name.
But the main character who's, you know.
Who's struggling, huh?
Joe, his name is Joe.
It's Joe.
Okay.
Yeah, I think I was thinking it was Joe.
Like, it can't be Joe.
That's too obvious.
I remember the chairman'sPindar, but I can't remember Joe.
(28:49):
Right, right.
But yeah, so, you know, Joe,you, like, you feel his struggle.
And then every time he learnssomething, you feel that, like,
hit of dopamine, like, ooh.
And you're coming along with him in that.
Whereas if you were just reading.
The five points, you know, the fivesteps of being a go giver, you wouldn't
have that same pop what you like.
Okay.
Oh, this is interesting.
Yeah, this might work.
Whereas you just watch Joe getone step closer to solving his
(29:14):
problem and feeding his familyand and doing what he needs to do.
And.
yeAh, so that's I'd never thoughtabout that way, but but it's.
It creates that association and makesit more, you know, when you encounter
that, I think I might do this.
Right.
You've got that, you've alreadygot that positive mental like,
I feel good about doing this.
Jeff West (29:32):
You know, I don't know what, I don't know what your age is.
I'm, I'm in my early 60s and I usedto read business parables a lot.
You know, it was it was like augmentDino and things of that nature I
loved the books and they kind ofseemed to die off The go getter began
that journey back with it and thenwho moved my cheese out of the maze.
There's a lot of them but They're comingof age again, but what's happening now
(29:56):
with this with the audience that we have?
So many of them had neverexperienced the parable.
So I'll get people that aresending me messages saying,
Oh my God, I love that story.
I learned things.
And then they're going, it'sa new experience for them.
And that, that's actually very rewarding.
It really is.
Michael Whitehouse (30:11):
Yeah.
No, that's pretty great.
And, and especially now in, you know,cause everyone's written a book.
So there's, you know, you could read booksevery minute for the rest of your life and
not begin to keep up with even the goodones and not all of them are good ones.
So the, the parables, they could, and thething is too, the things we're teaching
I recently ran a, a summit called thebreakthrough summit, and we had all
(30:33):
kinds of people signing up for it tospeak at it because every coach can teach
us some kind of breakthrough mindsetshift, whatever it's what they all do.
So it was, it was a great event.
But I, I commented at one point, likenothing that's been taught here is
less than a few thousand years old.
We repackage it.
We change the way we say it.
We have a different concept to it,but It's all, you know, it's all in
(30:55):
the Bible and the Quran and the youknow, Confucius taught it and Taoism
teaches it and Asian Greeks taught.
It's all the same.
Like we're all human.
The basic human truths don't change.
And how you apply thosehuman truths don't change.
It's simply, how do you teach itand get that information across?
Right.
So as everyone's writing their bookabout, you know, how to overcome
(31:16):
objections, sales, mindset,focus, motivation, whatever.
It's all the same old stuff, repackagedin different ways and maybe it's a
little tweak here, a little tweakthere, but so putting it into a story
is actually the oldest way of sharinginformation, but also very helpful
because it makes it stand out and thengive you something you can talk about.
(31:37):
You say, Oh yeah, I remember inthis book where the character did
this as opposed to, yeah, I thinkthis book teaches that in some way.
It makes it feel more, feel morereal, feel like something you
can attach more to, which is,which is a really cool concept.
So.
Jeff West (31:52):
Well, you know, my background is actually in music.
I have a bachelor's degree inmusic education and a master's
degree in music composition.
And those two degrees and a 10 bill willbuy me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
And when I was doing my studentteaching, I had a great guy that
I was mentored by and workedwith him for about six weeks on.
(32:13):
learning how to be a better teacher.
And he was he, one of the things that hetaught me was when you're working with
a beginner, whether you're working withsomeone at any level, sometimes it's
not so much as you're teaching, teachingsomething new, but you're having to find
different ways to say the same thingto deliver the message because sooner
or later, one of those ways is goingto resonate and it's going to work.
(32:36):
Yeah,
Michael Whitehouse (32:37):
so Yeah, so yeah, I love this concept with the pair.
I'm definitely gonna check outStreetwise to Saleswise and get
that on, get that on Audible.
I've got a another road trip coming up,so that's a great time to listen through.
It's a 19 hour trip.
It's probably the entire bookfits into a couple states.
It's about a four hour, about a four hour.
Yeah, so that's like thelength of North Carolina.
I love it.
(33:00):
oR, you know, Dallas to Houston, I think.
So, yeah.
Or, or that's a regular,regular commuting in Texas.
Jeff West (33:06):
It's around the corner here.
Michael Whitehouse (33:08):
Yep.
Yeah.
So it's been great having you on here.
I love this, the fusion point conceptthat you have linking the, the emotions.
You know, the emotions to the, thelogic and, and that connection.
And, oh, you were going to tellthe story about how you met Bob
and you said it was a good one.
So,
Jeff West (33:25):
well, not, not long after my career first began to take off in
great part to endless referrals, I beganto come into the sales organization
training school in the, with the insurancecompany I was with every month, the
state manager would have me come in.
I would tell them my personal story.
It was motivational.
(33:46):
And then I would finish up by tellingthem a little bit about those two
books, endless referrals and, and21 irrefutable laws of leadership.
I had been telling everybody about thisbook so much and I was always promoting
it inside my sales team everywhere.
Well, I was a regional managerfor the company in Plano, Texas.
And then my administrator buzzes inone day and she says, you've got a
(34:09):
phone call and I said, who is it?
And she said, some guy named Bob Berg.
And I thought, yeah, one of mybuddies is playing a joke on me
right now because I'm such a big fanof what I've learned in the book.
And so I get on the phone.
And as you know, Bob has this.
Definite distinctive voice that wecall it positive vocal velocity.
It just carries, you know.
(34:31):
He gets on the phone.
He says hi, Jeff, this is Bob Berg.
And I said, sure.
It is fella exact quote.
And he said excuse me.
I said.
Is this really Bob Berg?
And he said, yeah, thisis really Bob Berg.
And so then I told him the story and howmuch Endless Referrals had meant to me.
And he was flattered.
(34:52):
He was actually calling me to prospectto get in to speak with Aflac.
And so it was funny.
That's how we met.
And we just became friends.
And it stayed that way.
We had no
Michael Whitehouse (35:01):
idea who you were.
You were just on his call list to get in.
I was,
Jeff West (35:04):
I was a, I was a cold call for him.
Michael Whitehouse (35:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, you got some personalbrain going on when that happens.
Right.
That's exactly correct.
That that's amazing.
That's fantastic.
Well, I think that's agreat note to end it on.
That was a great story.
Love it.
So people obviously people can lookup streetwise to sales wise wherever
they streetwise to sales wise becomeobjection proof and beat the sales blues
coauthored between Jeff West and Bob Berg.
(35:32):
How else can people get in touch with
Jeff West (35:34):
Jeff West?
Oh, thank you so much for asking that.
The 1st thing I'll tell you is on streetwise to sales wise, just go to street wise
to sales wise dot com and all the links togo to all the retailers are there anyway.
And you can read about the book andsee what some people are saying.
They can also, if they're interested,anyone in your audience is interested
in having me work with you on.
(35:56):
developing the kind of relationshipin your team that keeps them there
or your sales process for your,your business, go to fusionpoints.
com.
That's plural on fusion points.
And, or if you lose track ofanything else, just go to jeffcwest.
com.
You'll find everything there.
Michael Whitehouse (36:13):
I love it.
Great hierarchy of websites.
Well done.
Yeah, very well organized.
I like it.
So this has been great.
It's been a lot of fun talking to you.
It's funny, I was telling you at thebeginning of the show yeah, I, I, pretty
much at the end of 2023, I, I was like,hey, I'm done recording season 6 episodes.
And then I got the reminderabout today, and I'm like, what?
I have another interview onmy calendar in late January?
(36:34):
Alright, well, what the heck, let's do it.
I guess it's already here.
Sure.
And I'm so glad we did becausethis has been a great conversation.
That's why I like having a podcast.
Meet cool people.
So thank you.
It's an honor to be here with you.
Yes.
Thank you so much for being on.
And once again, that'sstreet wise to sales wise.
com fusion points.
com and jeffcwest.
com is the, the centerpoint, the nexus of it all.
(36:57):
So thank you so much, Jeff,for being on the show.
Jeff West (36:59):
My pleasure, Michael.
Thank you so much for having me on.
Michael Whitehouse (37:04):
Thank you so much for joining us on the
Guy Who Knows A Guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse.
Be sure to join us forthe next JV Connect.
Learn all about it at jv connect.
com.
You can also get my Five Steps toProfitable Networking course for
free right there on that site.
Our goal is that in two days, you'regoing to get over 100, 000 of value
from the connections you made.
(37:26):
And this applies whether you are brandnew in business or well established.
So be sure to join us, jv connect.
com in March, June,September, and December.
All the dates and details areright there on the website.
Welcome back to the Guy Who Knows A Guy podcast.
These are bonus episodes thatdid not fit into Season 6, which
was a countdown to JV Connect.
We hit JV Connect and we still had somegreat interviews to share with you.
But don't worry, youhaven't missed JV Connect.
It's a quarterly event.
You can learn more about it by stickingaround to the end of this episode.
We'll tell you all about it.
But right now, check out this nextawesome interview with one of the awesome
(00:26):
people that the Guy Who Knows A Guy knowsand is going to introduce to you now.
Jeff West (00:31):
Welcome
Michael Whitehouse (00:36):
to the guy who knows a guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows a guy.
And our guest today is Jeff West.
Let me tell you about Jeff.
After over 30 years in sales, sales,leadership, and entrepreneurship.
Jeff West is now a best sellingand award winning author,
speaker, and leadership coach.
His books, the unexpected tourguide and said the lady with the
blue hair coauthored with directsales legend, Lisa M Wilbur, who I.
(01:00):
Thought I had her on my show, butmaybe I had her on a different show.
I don't know.
We were talking about that beforehand,but I definitely have met her.
Definitely know her.
She's awesome.
Anyway, those books have earnedrecognition from the Axiom Business Book
Awards, the National Indie ExcellenceAwards, and the American Book Fest Awards.
His latest book, Streetwise to SalesWise Become Objection Proof and Beat
the Sales Blues, co authored with BobBerg, who you may remember from earlier
(01:24):
this season, and is earning praisefrom business leaders around the U.
S.
He has been a guest on numerous salesleadership shows and is a member of
the GoGiver Success Alliance createdby Bob Berg and Kathy Tagenow.
Jeff West (01:36):
Welcome to the show, Jeff.
My honor.
Thank you so much forhaving me on board, Michael.
Awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (01:42):
Yes.
So, so we were talking earlier, causeyou, you you talk about becoming objection
proof and creating fusion points.
And when I was going through the notes yousent me, I said, okay, objection proof.
If I can.
I don't know what that is exactly,but I can guess what that means.
And you talk about the scienceof how people make decisions.
Important.
Can kind of figure out what that means.
And then fusion points.
(02:03):
What's that mean?
So tell us, let's start with there.
What, tell us about a fusion points
Jeff West (02:06):
and what that means.
You know, Fusion Points is actually abranding that I did, Michael, that grew
out of my question that I had when I wasleading a team of about 400 salespeople.
And that was, I could gettwo people in the same room.
Their resumes looked similar,their leadership skills looked
right, everything about them toldme they'll both be very successful
(02:28):
out there in the field of sales.
And then I would put them out thereand one would decide to stick it
out and be great, and the otherwould make the decision to quit.
And it puzzled me why that happened.
So I began to study the scienceof how people make decisions.
And long story short, I ranacross the works of a Dr.
Antonio Damasio, who was a professorof neuroscience at USC and an associate
(02:51):
professor at the Salk Institute.
Long story short, the entireprocess is built around the
idea that people make decisions.
only when they can connectlogic and emotion together.
No one makes a purely logical decision.
No one makes a purely emotional decision.
It's that combination that happens.
And if it's a negative emotionin our brain, two things happen.
(03:15):
Number one, it sends asomatic marker into our chest.
We start feeling funny.
We have a physiologicalresponse that we don't like.
We don't want to go forward.
So whatever logically we weretrying to do at the time, the
decision is to get away from it.
On the other hand, The use of positiveemotional responses between our ears
when that touches our chest and createsa physical, physical sensation for us,
(03:39):
that is a sensation that people love.
And so when you combine that with alogic that you're trying to accomplish
at the time, it creates tenacity.
It creates so many good things.
So I basically, I define a fusionpoint is that moment in time.
It's a unique point where logic andpositive emotion merge and ignite,
(03:59):
and it creates acceleration, itcreates commitment, it creates energy,
and it moves the process forward.
And what I do is I teach salespeoplehow to do that in a sales process,
but I teach entrepreneurs and smallbusiness owners how to create that
in their market and with their team.
Michael Whitehouse (04:14):
Yeah, that's, that's powerful.
And so it would not only be to makeprospects move forward with the
process, but to your team and yourself.
move forward with the business and, and Iimagine this would also probably help with
some of the, the morning routine stuff,the getting from sleeping to working and.
Absolutely.
(04:35):
You know, bouncing back from a challengingsituation, those, those sorts of things.
Jeff West (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, and when it comes tobuilding a business or growing a sales
career, your success, your futureisn't determined by the economy.
It's not determined bythe political landscape.
It's not even determinedby your competition.
It's determined by how one simplequestion is answered by your
prospects in the market, by yoursales team by the, your support
(05:02):
staff, the people that work for you.
It's how they answer one simple question.
And it's when it comes totheir relationship with you.
Will they persist or will they quit?
If you learn how to work within thescience of how we're naturally built
anyway, what it does is it equipsyou to have some influence over those
decisions that they want to stay withyou and move forward in the process.
(05:24):
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (05:24):
Yep.
Very powerful.
So we were talking earlier because thetheme of the show is around networking.
And of course you're part of the,the go getter success Alliance.
So tell me a bit about you know, what,what that's done for you and you know,
how networking has helped you build
Jeff West (05:40):
your business.
Well, that's a great question.
You know, when I guess it was,I can remember exactly, it was
in January of the year 2000.
A sales mentor of mine, I was inthe insurance industry at that time.
I was in North Texas and I was adistrict manager for the insurance
carrier that I was working with.
Still self employed, buthad, had overrides involved.
(06:01):
And a sales mentor of mine gave metwo books and it changed my world.
One was John Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Lawsof Leadership, a great leadership book.
But the second one.
Was a book I had neverheard of by an author.
I had no clue who he was.
And it was endless referrals byBob Burke and reading those 2 books
(06:24):
and applying what I learned fromthose, even though they didn't
necessarily apply to my industry.
I adapted them to my industrythat made all the difference.
And it's my career went from being anaverage district manager that would would.
Make my numbers onetime, miss them one time.
And I wasn't in danger of gettingfired, but I wasn't a superstar either.
But two years after I implemented what Ilearned at Endless Referrals, which was
(06:46):
basically built around the idea of whatproper networking is, I, at that time,
two years later, I was a regional manager.
Two years after that,I was a state manager.
And I was a state manager the last10 years of my career in insurance
till I decided to start writing andspeaking and doing this for a living.
But to me, networking isall about focusing on.
How you can provide value to the otherpeople in the network and how you can make
(07:10):
those connections, you know and when Iwas reading in those referrals, one of the
things that I saw in that book that justjumped out at me and I have implemented
it in everything I've done since then,is asking the person that you're working
with at the time, what do I need toknow when I'm out there in the field?
What do I need to know to it to makesure if someone I run into is a good
(07:33):
referral for me to send your way?
And you think about the magicin the networking process.
If everyone is focused last like thatand you start making those connections.
Everybody wins.
And Bob was talking about doing itin networking events and all that
in the book and in other placestoo, but that was the primary focus.
Talking about don't give yourcards out and say, or have an
elevator pitch or whatever ready.
(07:55):
It was talking about really workingon making the connections for
people and providing that value.
So how it directly appliedand helped my career take off.
I began to develop a network, areferral network of my existing clients.
I, at that time I probably had200 different clients that were
employers and I was involved intheir employee benefit program.
(08:18):
I went in and I asked I told one of theowners, it was a place in downtown Dallas,
Texas on the 23rd floor of a building.
And I don't like heights all that mucheither, but I had a meeting with a.
Owner of the, of a mortgage company, itwas one of my clients and I had called
him ahead of time saying, I want to pickyour brain about a couple of things.
And he said, sure.
So we got there.
And the first thing I did, I sat down withhim and I said, you know, the first thing
(08:41):
I want to do before I ask you what I'mgoing to ask you is tell you, thank you.
He said, for what?
And I said, I feed my family by providing,getting involved in employee benefits
and providing the services that we offer.
And I am, that's how I, that'show everything in my life outside
of work works effectively.
And I just want to thank youbecause you're a part of that.
(09:02):
And I appreciate that.
Of course it was true.
And of course heappreciated the compliment.
And I said, but I wantto ask you a question.
And he said, what?
And I said, I am out there inthe marketplace all the time.
I'm contacting new companies.
I've got existing clients.
I need to ask you a question.
What do I need to belooking for out there?
What questions do I need to be askingpeople to know if they would be a
(09:25):
good referral for me to send your way?
I want to return thefavor and help you too.
And I'll tell you what he did, Michael.
I'll never forget this.
I actually wrote the scene into my firstbook, The Unexpected Tour Guide, but
he said, He took off his glasses andhe laid them on his table and he said,
I'm going to answer that question, butI have to tell you something first.
And I said, what?
(09:45):
And he said, I've beenin business 30 years.
I've had a lot of salespeopleask me for referrals.
This is the first time ever asalesperson has ever asked me how
they could refer business to me.
Thank you.
And of course, the discussionjust got even better.
And he told me what to look for.
I had already kind of planneda couple of things in my head.
(10:08):
And so I said, well,hang on just a second.
And I picked up my cell phone andI called a client that I felt like
would be a good referral for him.
And I got him on the phone and I said,Hey, I just want to ask you a question.
I've got another client who does,who owns a mortgage company.
He's starting to do some thingswith employers and their employees.
I think.
He would be somebody you should talk to.
(10:29):
I think somebody that, that it'sa good connection there for you.
Would you mind if I gave himyour contact information?
Person said, no, that'd be perfectly fine.
And I said, I'll tell you, I knowthe guy I've known him for a while.
I like him and I trust him.
And I think you guys will get along well.
And I said, he said, great.
So I hung up the phone and I didthat in front of the person that
I was given the referral to.
(10:49):
And so that worked out longstory short, he and I keep saying
long story short too many times.
If I were writing, I would edit,I would edit that out, but he and
I developed a referral network.
We would have lunches where he wouldhave, we'd have it at his place and
his business and we'd invite some ofhis clients, some of my clients, and we
(11:10):
just began to take it off from there.
And I also began to teach that in my team.
And it wasn't just that I did it andI was great at it, it was also I was
pretty darn good at equipping the othersaround me to know how to do that too.
So that's why when it really took off.
So that's how networking forme made all the difference.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's
Michael Whitehouse (11:28):
it.
What I love about that is there's nothingnew to me in the basic principle that
asks people how you can help them.
But the way you did very intentionallywith your clients, because we often
think about this with our networkor the people are meeting in.
In networking, but to actuallyask your client explicitly,
you know, how can I refer?
And even the, if you can, if youcan make a referral, that's great.
(11:52):
And even if you can't, maybe theysay something and you're like
I've never met anyone like that.
That's yeah.
Yeah.
Well, well really I'm lookingfor a, you know, a one legged
midget who's into basketball.
Oh, that's interesting.
I'll keep an eye out for the, youknow, you don't have one, but just
the fact that you asked, right.
Cause that's, if I, you know, in, innetworking events, I find to the extent
(12:12):
that I, I catch people flat footed.
I asked them like, sowho are you here to meet?
Who's your, if you can beatanyone in the County, who
would you like to connect with?
Oh, I don't know.
I'm just looking to get outthere and see who's there.
Like, really, you dohave a business, right?
Like, do you know your customers really?
But, but yeah, they're so not used tothat because they're used to everyone
coming up and being like, hi, I'm Michael.
(12:33):
I do this.
And you know, so and so hiresme over this and whatever.
But that idea of deepening therelationship with your client for that.
And.
That's such a better way than saying, whoelse do you know who I should talk to?
Because like who else do I knowfor you to get a sales pitch to?
I don't know.
Versus how can I help you?
Right.
How can I refer to you?
You don't even have toask him for referrals.
(12:55):
He's going to most people, once you'veintroduced them to one or two people,
they're going to be like, okay, Ireally need to refer you to someone
now, just so I can feel better.
Like you're giving me so much.
I, you haven't even asked for anything.
I got to give something in return.
So that, that's a really powerful concept.
I
Jeff West (13:09):
love it.
Well, you know, the, an interesting thingtoo, and you touched on it there is when
someone's asking for referrals in anycontext to, to just ask doesn't work
very well, but if you get specific andyou ask deeper questions that does the
same process here, when you ask someone.
What do I need to be asking people?
What do I need to be looking forout there to know if they're a
(13:31):
good referral that's in your way?
It gets them thinking deeper.
And so it works well.
And it actually creates a fusion point,like I described earlier, because what I
did at that point is I created a hugelypositive emotional response in my client.
And I had a, I had a positiveemotional response with him
anyway, but, but I created that.
(13:52):
And then I combined it with a logic ofgetting, helping him do more business.
And when I did that, itcreated a fusion points.
And until I got promoted and moved away,we, we, we stayed in contact pretty well.
Yeah, that's,
Michael Whitehouse (14:03):
that's hugely powerful concept.
And, and I love that idea of that.
You're creating the, and then theother, and you mentioned specific.
And one of the things that'simportant about specific is.
You know, if it'd be an eye, whichis where I, I started networking,
I find B and I is often thetraining wheels of networking.
Like everyone started thereand then they sort of build up.
(14:24):
And, and often it'd be, I, the, the,the, the ass are not very specific.
They're like, Oh, anyone with a spine?
I'm a chiropractor.
Yeah.
I'm like, okay, yes.
Everyone has a spine.
No, I'm not going to refer anyone.
Cause that's not them.
But if somebody, every once ina while, someone gets really
specific and excessively specific.
And.
You know, if somebody says, yeah, so, somy the clients I'm really looking for are.
(14:50):
You know, gray haired guys namedJeff with a Texas accent and a
background in the insurance industry.
aNd, and, you know, I want to talkto them so I can make an offer.
If I was to reach out to him and belike, Jeff, you will not believe what
the ask was of this BNI meeting I was at.
He said, gray haired guys namedJeff with a Texas accent who
worked in the insurance industry.
You want to meet him?
(15:10):
And he'd be like, sure.
Yeah.
Like that's me.
Okay.
I don't even I'm
Jeff West (15:14):
your guy, and I know you like
Michael Whitehouse (15:15):
you're interesting, but that's you need me.
Awesome.
And so there's such power inthat because you feel special.
Right.
Whereas be like, Hey, yeah, anyonewho needs insurance send them.
Oh yeah, you need insurance.
Right.
But if it's right, if it's yeah, thisweek, I'm focused on people who have
a ordinal directions in their name.
Jeff, you won't believe this.
I would just ask forit to be an eye group.
(15:36):
That makes it easy.
Cause cause then it's, it's you.
It's not just, it's not just right.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yep.
So that has been being very powerful.
Yeah.
And so, so you're, you're telling aboutthe actually, yeah, you're telling me
the story about, about Lisa Wilbur.
I think that was an interestingone too, how you ended up co
authoring the book with her.
Cause it's funny, I, Imet her a few years ago.
(15:57):
I think I may have, may have hadher on my Power Launch Live show.
I swear I had her on one of these shows.
I don't know.
Once you get to 200 something episodes,it all starts to blur together.
But I think it was interesting when youwere sharing the story of how you ended
up co authoring that book with her.
Said the lady with the blue hair.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Jeff West (16:12):
Lisa and I were both in a group that Bob Berg has, Bob Berg and
Kathy Tejanil, the Goal Giver SuccessAlliance, and we were on one of the first
Zoom calls for that group, and it's amentoring community great group of people.
It's, it's literally my favorite hourevery week, but the, the first meeting
Lisa was on there too, and peopledon't know this about Lisa when you
first see her, first meet her, she'sAvon's Fifth highest earner in history.
(16:37):
She's huge in direct sales and shewas only, and she had blue hair.
And she was a little bit self consciousabout it because even though she's
been super, super successful, she justa little bit self conscious about it.
And so she felt theneed to get on the call.
And so she got the screen andshe was telling the story of why
she got blue hair and she had.
(16:58):
She told the reason she had madethe decision to do that, but
then she added a little thing.
She said, you know, if you ever want tostop being less judgmental, I'm gonna
do this in Lisa's accent best I can.
If you ever want to, you ever want to stopbeing less or start being less judgmental
in your life, dye your hair blue.
This is working for me.
He says, I can be in a grocery store andsee a young lady who her skirt's a little
(17:21):
too tight, her skirt's a little too short.
And I can think, wow, skirt isjust too short and tight, said
the lady with the blue hair.
And so she said that I'mlistening and I'm cracking up.
And I type in the chat, Hey, Lisasaid the lady with the blue hair
would make an awesome book title.
Cause at this point I had beenwriting and speaking for a while
(17:44):
and I had not done any coauthorshipsand so long story, I said it again.
I'm going to stop.
I'm going to start saying short storylong, but what happened is about a
year, year and a half later, I guessit was when I decided to change
my business model a little bit.
And instead of just writing my own books,go ahead and do some co authorships,
(18:04):
kind of like what Bob Berg and JohnDavid Mann did with The Go Giver.
And I reached out to her andwe, that's what we did with
The Lady with the Blue Hair.
And it's, it's, that book too alsoled into my co authorship with Bob.
Bob and I've actually known eachother for, 20 plus years now.
We met in 2003, I think it was.
(18:28):
And so when, and if there'senough story, I'll tell you
that how we met, it's hilarious.
But, and just that relationship,we've become friends over the years.
He approached me about doing speakinggigs with Aflac, which was the
insurance carrier that I was with.
And so I helped him as much as I could.
And then, as I became a state manager, Ihad him come in and speak with our group.
I, I literally wrote letters ofreferral to every single state office
(18:50):
with Aflac because Bob's that great.
And, so as, as the time went on andeverything Bob does, I tend to tend to
jump in there and get involved with it.
And so having that successfulcollaboration with Lisa is kind of
what led into the collaboration withBob on street wise to sales wise.
We were.
It was about fourth quarter last year, Iguess it was, and Bob was sending me an
(19:13):
email about something he was going to do,and he wanted to know my thoughts on it.
It was a publication he wasabout to do about objections.
And I said and just as a comment inthere, that it wasn't even something
he was really thinking about, but hesaid, by the way, keep this because
when we do our parable, this will besomething we might want to refer back to.
So I replied to his email and I puta little PS and said, by the way, If
(19:37):
you're serious, that answer is yes.
And so we began talking abouthe, he had this objection proof
manuscript that he'd had for years.
And he was thinking aboutdoing something with it.
He never, he never published the, theactual work and he, it was a how to book.
And so when it comes to, he decided hereally would rather do it as a parable.
(20:00):
So he approached me last yearand It kind of went from there.
It's set in New Orleans, and I'll, we'llget into more of that if you'd like.
Michael Whitehouse (20:08):
Yeah, yeah, tell me about it.
Actually, my next question isgoing to be tell me about the book.
Oh, okay, cool.
Jeff West (20:14):
It's called Streetwise to Saleswise.
Become objection proofand beat the sales blues.
And it's a sales parable,or a business parable.
It's what I like to write the most.
I will write non fiction.
And I've been technically a parableis nonfiction, but it, but across it,
it's like, it's it saddles over fictionon one side and business on the other
(20:35):
side, but it's set in new Orleans.
It's the story about a youngsalesperson who grew up on the
streets of new Orleans and he lets hismouth get ahead of him a little bit.
And I won't go into too muchbecause I loved, I love the story.
Don't you guys to read it, but it's yeah.
He, he, he finds himself out of thatjob and then he gets a job in sales and
(20:58):
he had no clue he was going to do that.
It wasn't something he intended.
And so what we do in the story we,we take him through his growth.
From a brand new person who knowsnothing about sales all the way
through a year where he's really doingwell And we weave in the fabric of
new orleans when I write a parable.
I'm john david man who was bob's co authoron the go giver he is my writing coach.
(21:20):
He is someone who's been a mentor tome a friend As a matter of fact, in the
new book, he's somebody I mentioned inthe dedication because he's, he's just
been that awesome for helping my craftand I, I wasn't a slouch before, but
I'm several levels better now that I'veworked with John because he's awesome,
but it's like 30 something books, nineNew York Times bestsellers anyway.
(21:41):
In the process of doing this, onething I learned from John is I like
to write the geography of a locationalmost as if it's part of a character.
So in New Orleans, I've, I've gota music background myself, so I
love the music of New Orleans.
I love the Food of New Orleans.
So it's, it's just what beenone of the places that I'll go.
And I was sitting there with my wifeand I believe it was on new Year's
(22:04):
Eve, maybe the day before New Year'sEve going from 2022 into 2023.
And I knew the material wewere going to use in the book.
We're going to use some of my salestraining, which we did, my leadership
training, which we did, and thesame with Bob, some of his sales
and leadership training as well.
But I didn't reallyhave the story idea yet.
And we were sitting in New Orleans mid tolate afternoon, and we're on a balcony of
(22:26):
a restaurant, and we're just enjoying theday, having a glass of wine, and a street
performer started performing out there andI love street performers in New Orleans.
I just do.
I can't help myself.
I sat there and literally, Michael, thestory came to me and I knew the entire
story arc with major and minor characters.
(22:46):
From the get go now, it evolvedover the year that when I'd
write a book, and that's not, Idon't turn it down in 30 days.
I say here, buy this.
I don't do that.
I'll make it.
I try to do a really great jobwith it, but it, we work in
the flavors of New Orleans.
We work in secondarycharacters that people.
Have told me they can kind of fall inlove with and we do some unusual things
(23:07):
that I did in the audible version.
I actually I throw a surprise in there.
I'll just leave it at that.
It's a musical surprise thatI throw in for everybody,
Michael Whitehouse (23:14):
but nice.
So, so, so audible is whereI should go listen to that.
Jeff West (23:19):
Yeah.
I'm one of these people, I buy a bookthat I like in every, in every format.
I tell people, if you want thehardback, go to Barnes and Noble,
their delivery times are so fastand it's the best for the hardback.
If you want the ebook or even the audiobook, you can go to Amazon because it's
immediate delivery on both of those.
But I tend to have it at all because Ilike having my entire library on my phone.
(23:43):
Every book that I have,I've got on my phone.
I can be on a plane.
I can read.
I also, I like, I like holdingup a hard book in my hand.
I'll just, I like having thatthere so I can take notes, but I
have so fallen in love with audiobooks over the last few years.
One of my favorite writers infiction is Michael Connolly and I'll
listen to the Bosch series or theLincoln Lawyer series and I'll, I'll
(24:07):
just, I can, I can do it for hours.
I really can.
Michael Whitehouse (24:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're, they're really well done.
Yeah.
Or some of them are really well donein terms of the, the voice actors
and the performances and, and justreally has a, it's funny sometimes I
listen to an audio book and the, thereader will read it in a certain way.
I'm like, there's no waythat's written in the book.
You know, like they'll make a sound like,there's no way it says, ah, in the book
(24:32):
or, you know, that sound or or, or it'llsay, you know, you know, he choked out
and they actually say, you know The waythey, they say it, it's just really,
it's more of a performance, just likesomebody reading you a book and it's
very powerful, but, but the other, I lovethe business parable format and there's
not a lot of them out there, but yeah,the go giver of course is a great one.
(24:53):
And, and I think the great thing abouta, a business parable is it makes
you want to read the whole thing.
Most business books.
Most people tell you they, they,and I've heard people say, this is
actually how they read them on purpose.
They read the first quarter.
That's kind of the main part of the book.
And then the rest of thisapplication, they skip that part.
Cause they've already gotthe, the nugget of it.
And then, you know, they move on.
But with the business parable,you know, you listen to the go
(25:14):
giver, you want to get to the end.
I listened to a one minute millionaireand I was actually really surprised
because oftentimes the businessparable, it's, it's a story structure.
In order to give structure to whatthey're teaching, but they're still,
you know, teaching something unlessthey want to be a millionaire and I'm
like, wait, there's actually like astory arc and tension and, and conflict
(25:34):
among minor characters and twists.
And like, this is actually areal story that's also a pair
of like, wow, this is the nextlevel, you know, next level stuff.
So, and it sounds like that's what you'redoing with, with your book as well as
streetwise sales wise that, that it'seven if you're not learning to sell.
It's an interesting story about aguy in New Orleans and, and like
(25:56):
visiting a city and all that, whichis, is a really cool way to learn.
And that's what's really goingto draw people through books.
It did if, if I had a.
If I had a nickel for every time Iread part of a book, I'd have a lot
Jeff West (26:07):
of nickels.
You know, you make such agreat point there, Michael.
If a book can't grab me or grab you orgrab anybody pretty darn quickly you
can, you can lose interest in it andthen you want to go do something else.
And one of the things that is one ofmy favorite compliments I ever get
when someone tells me if, especiallymy, I have friends that will read
my books and they're not in sales.
(26:28):
And when they tell me the story wasso good, I couldn't put it down.
I read it.
Cover to cover on one sitting.
That's a big deal to me.
Yep But the audio book one of the thingsI love about that and you'll appreciate
this It's audio is a good format andit what happens is Whether someone's
an entrepreneur or just in a corporateworld and they're leading a team that the
leadership lessons that are in the bookAnd the sales lessons in the book, it is
(26:53):
so much like you're literally sitting sideby side with your mentor in a live selling
situation or in a live conflict situation.
If you're in a business andsomeone is showing you, okay,
this is how you'd handle this.
And it's, it's, it bringsa lot of value that way.
Yeah.
But, and it
Michael Whitehouse (27:08):
makes it very, very clear you know, what this actually means
to me, because often they go through.
thAt's one of the things I found inone minute people have explained to me
the concept of you can buy real estatewith No with no cash a bunch of times
and people try to explain how and i'mlike, okay, I think I did you did I
think you did that It's only when Iheard it told in a narrative format
and they're like and then she talked tothis person and this person explained
(27:30):
This is what our money is and thenthey did like Oh, that's how it works.
Okay, because you're doing itin theory, then it is very dry.
You're like, okay, wait,hold on and go, go back.
What was that thinking?
But when you're listening to thestory narratively, then it gives
you that framework because that's,you know, humans are built to
exchange knowledge and stories.
(27:50):
We're not built to exchange, you know,just dry, like, here's a list of technical
terms and then apply that in this way.
And then at step 14, youwill find this result.
You need.
You need stories to provide astructural framework for your, your
ancient human brain to understand
Jeff West (28:06):
it.
You know, it loops right backaround to a fusion point because
what happens in a parable?
Or in a good narrative, eventeaching a how to book like that.
It connects an emotional part of yourbrain with the logical part of your brain.
And just like in a fusion board whereit moves things forward, people get
comfortable taking the next step.
People also retain what they're tryingto learn so much better that way.
Michael Whitehouse (28:27):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And, and I think also, you know, ifyou're coming along with the, you know,
think about like with the go giver.
There's the, the emotional arc of, of Ican't remember the main character's name.
But the main character who's, you know.
Who's struggling, huh?
Joe, his name is Joe.
It's Joe.
Okay.
Yeah, I think I was thinking it was Joe.
Like, it can't be Joe.
That's too obvious.
I remember the chairman'sPindar, but I can't remember Joe.
(28:49):
Right, right.
But yeah, so, you know, Joe,you, like, you feel his struggle.
And then every time he learnssomething, you feel that, like,
hit of dopamine, like, ooh.
And you're coming along with him in that.
Whereas if you were just reading.
The five points, you know, the fivesteps of being a go giver, you wouldn't
have that same pop what you like.
Okay.
Oh, this is interesting.
Yeah, this might work.
Whereas you just watch Joe getone step closer to solving his
(29:14):
problem and feeding his familyand and doing what he needs to do.
And.
yeAh, so that's I'd never thoughtabout that way, but but it's.
It creates that association and makesit more, you know, when you encounter
that, I think I might do this.
Right.
You've got that, you've alreadygot that positive mental like,
I feel good about doing this.
Jeff West (29:32):
You know, I don't know what, I don't know what your age is.
I'm, I'm in my early 60s and I usedto read business parables a lot.
You know, it was it was like augmentDino and things of that nature I
loved the books and they kind ofseemed to die off The go getter began
that journey back with it and thenwho moved my cheese out of the maze.
There's a lot of them but They're comingof age again, but what's happening now
(29:56):
with this with the audience that we have?
So many of them had neverexperienced the parable.
So I'll get people that aresending me messages saying,
Oh my God, I love that story.
I learned things.
And then they're going, it'sa new experience for them.
And that, that's actually very rewarding.
It really is.
Michael Whitehouse (30:11):
Yeah.
No, that's pretty great.
And, and especially now in, you know,cause everyone's written a book.
So there's, you know, you could read booksevery minute for the rest of your life and
not begin to keep up with even the goodones and not all of them are good ones.
So the, the parables, they could, and thething is too, the things we're teaching
I recently ran a, a summit called thebreakthrough summit, and we had all
(30:33):
kinds of people signing up for it tospeak at it because every coach can teach
us some kind of breakthrough mindsetshift, whatever it's what they all do.
So it was, it was a great event.
But I, I commented at one point, likenothing that's been taught here is
less than a few thousand years old.
We repackage it.
We change the way we say it.
We have a different concept to it,but It's all, you know, it's all in
(30:55):
the Bible and the Quran and the youknow, Confucius taught it and Taoism
teaches it and Asian Greeks taught.
It's all the same.
Like we're all human.
The basic human truths don't change.
And how you apply thosehuman truths don't change.
It's simply, how do you teach itand get that information across?
Right.
So as everyone's writing their bookabout, you know, how to overcome
(31:16):
objections, sales, mindset,focus, motivation, whatever.
It's all the same old stuff, repackagedin different ways and maybe it's a
little tweak here, a little tweakthere, but so putting it into a story
is actually the oldest way of sharinginformation, but also very helpful
because it makes it stand out and thengive you something you can talk about.
(31:37):
You say, Oh yeah, I remember inthis book where the character did
this as opposed to, yeah, I thinkthis book teaches that in some way.
It makes it feel more, feel morereal, feel like something you
can attach more to, which is,which is a really cool concept.
So.
Jeff West (31:52):
Well, you know, my background is actually in music.
I have a bachelor's degree inmusic education and a master's
degree in music composition.
And those two degrees and a 10 bill willbuy me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
And when I was doing my studentteaching, I had a great guy that
I was mentored by and workedwith him for about six weeks on.
(32:13):
learning how to be a better teacher.
And he was he, one of the things that hetaught me was when you're working with
a beginner, whether you're working withsomeone at any level, sometimes it's
not so much as you're teaching, teachingsomething new, but you're having to find
different ways to say the same thingto deliver the message because sooner
or later, one of those ways is goingto resonate and it's going to work.
(32:36):
Yeah,
Michael Whitehouse (32:37):
so Yeah, so yeah, I love this concept with the pair.
I'm definitely gonna check outStreetwise to Saleswise and get
that on, get that on Audible.
I've got a another road trip coming up,so that's a great time to listen through.
It's a 19 hour trip.
It's probably the entire bookfits into a couple states.
It's about a four hour, about a four hour.
Yeah, so that's like thelength of North Carolina.
I love it.
(33:00):
oR, you know, Dallas to Houston, I think.
So, yeah.
Or, or that's a regular,regular commuting in Texas.
Jeff West (33:06):
It's around the corner here.
Michael Whitehouse (33:08):
Yep.
Yeah.
So it's been great having you on here.
I love this, the fusion point conceptthat you have linking the, the emotions.
You know, the emotions to the, thelogic and, and that connection.
And, oh, you were going to tellthe story about how you met Bob
and you said it was a good one.
So,
Jeff West (33:25):
well, not, not long after my career first began to take off in
great part to endless referrals, I beganto come into the sales organization
training school in the, with the insurancecompany I was with every month, the
state manager would have me come in.
I would tell them my personal story.
It was motivational.
(33:46):
And then I would finish up by tellingthem a little bit about those two
books, endless referrals and, and21 irrefutable laws of leadership.
I had been telling everybody about thisbook so much and I was always promoting
it inside my sales team everywhere.
Well, I was a regional managerfor the company in Plano, Texas.
And then my administrator buzzes inone day and she says, you've got a
(34:09):
phone call and I said, who is it?
And she said, some guy named Bob Berg.
And I thought, yeah, one of mybuddies is playing a joke on me
right now because I'm such a big fanof what I've learned in the book.
And so I get on the phone.
And as you know, Bob has this.
Definite distinctive voice that wecall it positive vocal velocity.
It just carries, you know.
(34:31):
He gets on the phone.
He says hi, Jeff, this is Bob Berg.
And I said, sure.
It is fella exact quote.
And he said excuse me.
I said.
Is this really Bob Berg?
And he said, yeah, thisis really Bob Berg.
And so then I told him the story and howmuch Endless Referrals had meant to me.
And he was flattered.
(34:52):
He was actually calling me to prospectto get in to speak with Aflac.
And so it was funny.
That's how we met.
And we just became friends.
And it stayed that way.
We had no
Michael Whitehouse (35:01):
idea who you were.
You were just on his call list to get in.
I was,
Jeff West (35:04):
I was a, I was a cold call for him.
Michael Whitehouse (35:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, you got some personalbrain going on when that happens.
Right.
That's exactly correct.
That that's amazing.
That's fantastic.
Well, I think that's agreat note to end it on.
That was a great story.
Love it.
So people obviously people can lookup streetwise to sales wise wherever
they streetwise to sales wise becomeobjection proof and beat the sales blues
coauthored between Jeff West and Bob Berg.
(35:32):
How else can people get in touch with
Jeff West (35:34):
Jeff West?
Oh, thank you so much for asking that.
The 1st thing I'll tell you is on streetwise to sales wise, just go to street wise
to sales wise dot com and all the links togo to all the retailers are there anyway.
And you can read about the book andsee what some people are saying.
They can also, if they're interested,anyone in your audience is interested
in having me work with you on.
(35:56):
developing the kind of relationshipin your team that keeps them there
or your sales process for your,your business, go to fusionpoints.
com.
That's plural on fusion points.
And, or if you lose track ofanything else, just go to jeffcwest.
com.
You'll find everything there.
Michael Whitehouse (36:13):
I love it.
Great hierarchy of websites.
Well done.
Yeah, very well organized.
I like it.
So this has been great.
It's been a lot of fun talking to you.
It's funny, I was telling you at thebeginning of the show yeah, I, I, pretty
much at the end of 2023, I, I was like,hey, I'm done recording season 6 episodes.
And then I got the reminderabout today, and I'm like, what?
I have another interview onmy calendar in late January?
(36:34):
Alright, well, what the heck, let's do it.
I guess it's already here.
Sure.
And I'm so glad we did becausethis has been a great conversation.
That's why I like having a podcast.
Meet cool people.
So thank you.
It's an honor to be here with you.
Yes.
Thank you so much for being on.
And once again, that'sstreet wise to sales wise.
com fusion points.
com and jeffcwest.
com is the, the centerpoint, the nexus of it all.
(36:57):
So thank you so much, Jeff,for being on the show.
Jeff West (36:59):
My pleasure, Michael.
Thank you so much for having me on.
Michael Whitehouse (37:04):
Thank you so much for joining us on the
Guy Who Knows A Guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse.
Be sure to join us forthe next JV Connect.
Learn all about it at jv connect.
com.
You can also get my Five Steps toProfitable Networking course for
free right there on that site.
Our goal is that in two days, you'regoing to get over 100, 000 of value
from the connections you made.
(37:26):
And this applies whether you are brandnew in business or well established.
So be sure to join us, jv connect.
com in March, June,September, and December.
All the dates and details areright there on the website.
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