March 2, 2024 • 37 mins
Join Michael Whitehouse on the "Guy Who Knows A Guy" podcast as he delves into an insightful conversation with Robert Butwin, a seasoned entrepreneur and network marketing virtuoso. Discover Robert's transformative journey from conventional corporate confines to embracing the freedom of becoming 'psychologically unemployable,' along with his invaluable insights on networking, personal growth, and nurturing life and business connections. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on leveraging network marketing as both a career and an educational tool, guided by expert advice from Robert and thoughtful probing by Michael.
Complimentary gift text "WIN" to 707-870-9474
Schedule a chat at calendly.com/butwin
Mentioned in this episode:
JV Connect, December 12-13, 2023
Join us for JV Connect, the dedicated networking event December 12th and 13th, 2023 https://www.jv-connect.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome back to the GuyWho Knows A Guy podcast.
These are bonus episodes thatdid not fit into Season 6, which
was a countdown to JV Connect.
We hit JV Connect and we still had somegreat interviews to share with you.
But don't worry, youhaven't missed JV Connect.
It's a quarterly event.
You can learn more about it by stickingaround to the end of this episode.
We'll tell you all about it.
But right now, check out this nextawesome interview with one of the awesome
(00:26):
people that the Guy Who Knows A Guy knowsand is going to introduce to you now.
Welcome
once again to the guywho knows a guy podcast.
I'm Michael Whitehouse, theguy who knows the guy himself.
And today I have with me networkmarketing, Maverick and visionary
(00:47):
entrepreneur, Robert Butwin descendedfrom a lineage of successful
entrepreneurs and self made millionaires.
Robert Butwin's journey is atestament to breaking the mold.
Early, he decided to step away fromthe conventional country club smart
business practices ingrained in hisupbringing, instead choosing the path
of network marketing for its personalfulfillment and financial stability.
Robert began his network marketingendeavor part time 39 years ago.
(01:11):
Quickly grasping its immensepotential, he transitioned to a full
time network marketer, a role he'sembraced since September 7th, 1990.
This shift marked the beginningof a career in which he became.
Psychologically unemployable,finding his true calling outside
the traditional job market.
And I'm very excited to have him herebecause Robert's probably forgotten
(01:31):
more about network than I'll ever know.
So welcome to the show, Robert.
Hey, Michael, it's a pleasure to meet you.
And you know, it's serendipitous becauseactually we met networking and over
a period of time we continually seemto show up in the similar places and.
Develop the relationship from there.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The number of times someonesaid to me, do you know Robert?
But when you should talk tohim, like, yeah, I know Robert.
(01:56):
Super.
Yep.
So definitely great to have you on here.
And you know, I was telling you beforewe got started, this is the first
season where I'm really focusingon sharing networking knowledge and
teaching networking through the podcast,which is weird because the first five
or more showing off, like, look atall these cool people I know, and
now we're really focused on sharingknowledge so other people can do.
what I did and meet cool people like you.
(02:17):
So let's just kick it off withjust a quick piece of advice
because I always get a quick win.
For someone out there who's like,I've heard about networking,
but it hasn't worked for me.
I've gone to events.
I drink the wine, eat the cheese,but nothing really happens.
For someone who hasn't found the,the power of networking, what would
your advice be to them to really?
Get the value that we'vegotten from a couple of things.
(02:41):
First of all, you're probably closerbecoming a master at it than you know,
and going back to, and I remember thecartoon of this frog that he was Halfway
down the stork's throat and on thecapsule is never, never, never give up.
One of the things I can tell youis that your net worth is a direct
(03:01):
relationship to the value of your network.
So again, you're closer than youprobably know and don't give up.
Okay.
All right.
And so do you think it might be likewhere people are networking or how they
are like when you encounter people whoI assume you sometimes have people say,
yeah, networking doesn't work for me.
What do you find is holding people backfrom from getting out of the birds throat?
(03:23):
Well, first of all, I thinkit's a combination of different
things and expression.
I learned in Asia.
Same, same, but different.
The similarities and differencesfrom every human being.
It could be your belief system.
It could be what you're doing, orit could be where you're doing.
The key is knowing where and how to do it.
I mean, some of the biggest mistakes.
That I see people make whenthey're networking is number one.
(03:45):
They're not brandingthemselves quite often.
They're branding You know, whateverthey're representing not themselves
second biggest mistakes is they're toofocused on Transactions now, obviously
we all are looking to create transactionsBut the reality is you want to focus
on collaborations if the key is almosteverybody today is looking for visibility
(04:08):
credibility and connectivity Hmm.
Talk a bit more about brands.
I don't understand what you mean.
The people are doing wrong.
They're like, hi, I'm, I'mMichael with remax or, you know,
I'm Joe with New York life.
And so they're not talking aboutwho they are and establishing
themselves as a brand.
But what's the solution to that?
How do they brand themselves?
(04:28):
Well, actually, I'm going, you know,I'm going to borrow something that I
heard you say that you heard somebodyelse say the seven magic words and
it, you know, how, dah, dah, dah, dah,dah, whatever it is, what I do is.
Hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, the problem you're solving.
But that's just one example.
(04:48):
I mean, quite often, and I'm very proMLM, but there's many times I see people
get on and they're talking about theirMLM, that's just example, or their real
estate or whatever it is, you are thebrand and what you do, what you want to
be doing is branding, you know, who, youknow, what you can help other people.
Hmm.
(05:09):
Yes.
No, I, I definitely noticed things.
I certainly seen peoplewho get up and they say.
You know, we have a product that that doesthis and as a billion dollars, and I'm
looking like you don't have that product.
You might represent that product,but I'm pretty sure you don't
have a billion dollar company.
And again, it comes across verydisingenuous, not disingenuous,
but out of alignment.
(05:30):
You're the words in the music aren'tmatching when people are talking
about the company as if it's them.
Right.
I mean, nobody really wants tobe pitched unless you really
understand who that other person is.
The only thing, as far as what I look atwhen I network, I'm trying to pitch them
of why they want to get to know me better.
(05:50):
Why they want to do the one on onethe magic really happens when you Have
the one on one and then we can talkabout that in a little bit, but you
know You don't want to be pitching.
I mean if you know if all you'recoming across is pitching somebody.
Yep Resistance levelgoes up Yes, absolutely.
And actually let's talk about MLMs fora moment because I'm sure, you know,
(06:11):
some people have had good experiencewith them and they understand the
power of them and the power of thesystem, but other people have not
maybe have such a positive experience.
And so share a little bit aboutfor people who have, who have may
have a negative impression of MLMs.
What is it that makes them so, so goodand powerful and what makes such a fan?
(06:31):
Well, unfortunately, quite often, youknow, the, the biggest assets, the
biggest liability in NLM, which is theseof entry, it's very easy for somebody
to get involved for very little dollarsand make a lot of money, but it also
brings a lot of the wrong element.
People that really haven't embraced it.
I've said for many years onstage, if people really understood
this business model, especiallywhere it is today, compared.
(06:55):
To where it was when Istarted 30 some years ago.
Everybody would be involved with itfor a variety of different reasons.
The biggest reason why somebody mightnot be involved in it is because
they've got the misperception thing.
They think it's about selling products.
They think the fact is, if I get youinvolved in an MLM, you're working for me.
Actually, the antithesis of that is true.
(07:18):
If I get you involved in a particularcompany, I'm working for you because
really what you're looking for isFrom that other person is their time,
energy and effort, their resources.
And the only way they're goingto continually stay involved
is if they can see some wins.
So again, if you know, it'sgetting clarity about what that is.
And today, most MLM companiesare really what I call a hybrid.
(07:41):
They're a cross between aaffiliate with a leverage backend.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's something I always appreciatemy, you know, I have, I have a, an
audience and email lists, resourceletter, and I've encountered a number
of companies that are MLM structured.
And I said, Oh, I like what you do.
I'd be happy to show it to my audience.
And they're like, great.
You got to come to thistraining and do this and wear
(08:02):
a hat and drink the Kool Aid.
I'm like, no, no, no, no,no, you don't understand.
I will send emails, sendingpeople to you to talk to.
Oh, we don't do things that way.
I'm like, cool.
Guess I'm not promoting you.
That that's why I, you know, I recentlydiscovered the great discovery and.
And I like them because because they'reactually set up that I can use my,
you know, I like what they're doing.
I like their philosophy.
(08:22):
I can take what they're doing andsay, hey, come to this info session.
This guy will be hereto explain it for you.
I don't need to explain it.
I don't have to go learn everything.
I can bring what I have.
And then marry it to what theyhave and create value for everyone
instead of everyone having to,you know, wear the robes and drink
the Kool Aid as they do at some.
Exactly.
(08:43):
Sometimes, you know, and again, one ofthe guys I've met through networking, Jim
Feldman, his website is shift happens,but sometimes all you need to do is
shift how people look at it because.
You know, today they've gotsystems in pro I mean, in place.
So all you have to do is plug peopleinto the system and they don't have to
go through the training or your uplinecan handle that for you or whatever.
(09:05):
But sometimes a small difference inhow you think or look at something
will make the biggest differenceas it relates to networking and
everything else you do in life.
Yeah, yeah, that is.
That's a huge thing.
So, so you're going to, yousaid you're going to talk
about one on ones a little bit.
So let's talk about that.
Cause you know, you meet people andthat's, that's where the action happens.
You meet someone at an event, yousay, let's follow up and then what?
(09:30):
You know, the biggest thing andthere's, I love acronyms, which
I think, you know, and I love theacronym USC and that's not the college
in Southern California, but it'sunderstanding who the other person is.
Now, if the other person asks you.
What you do, keep itshort, sweet, and simple.
So if somebody asked me what I do, I say,I'm a elite networker and a strategist.
(09:51):
And then I flip it back on them.
I'd like to find out more about what youdo, because if I understand what they
do, what they're doing to expand theirnetwork and understand what's going on in
their world, you know, and I mentioned,you know, for example, Jim Feldman.
And when I originally met Jim, Isaid, I'm an out of the box thinker.
(10:12):
And he says, I mean, my whole livingwithin the box thinking as that relates
to networking, you know, it's, you know, Iuse what he calls 3d thinking, understand
the depth of the other person's problem,which is going back to understanding,
understand the distance to the solutionas it relates to what they're doing.
So if you're in the, the lastday is the determination of
(10:36):
them to solve their problem.
So when I'm.
Talking with somebody, Iwant to understand really
what's going on in the world.
And then my next part of that S is figureout how I can be of service or value.
For example, when you and I first met,I've got this vault of information that
I normally sell for a lot of money,but I gave it to you at no cost because
one of the things about networking,it's like opening a bank account.
(11:00):
You need to make deposits.
a withdrawal.
So I'm focused on being of service.
If the person's looking to get morevisibility, I've got a whole list,
just like you do, of different peoplethat might have podcasts or resources
where I can guide them, guide them to.
I've got a list of 60 differentnetworking events in the vault.
So I'm trying to focus on whatI can do that will help them.
(11:24):
As it relates to what they're doing.
And then I want to focus on the C,which is, you know, have clarity of
communication, focus on connectingfrom a human to human, and think about
collaboration, you know, it's like,if I can guide somebody to somebody
that would be the right connection forthem, that's another way to increase
(11:45):
your know, like, and trust, which is acommon thing that everybody talks about.
Yeah, and there's a few things that Ireally like people can can learn from it.
First of all, I believe before wemet, I had seen your event list.
I, I can't remember who I think may havebeen Frank Agan, who, who recommended it.
But he said, yeah, if you'relooking for this is what I was
just getting the online space.
(12:06):
He said, there's this guy, Robert,but when he's got a list of.
a zillion events and, and I think heactually may have sent me the PDF.
He's, he's like, I've got this PDF fromRobert Budwin, you know, check this out.
I'm like, Oh, this is pretty cool.
This guy must know his stuff.
I should probably meet him at some point.
So I knew you before I met you.
Because you'd createdthis high leverage asset.
Cause you know, sending a PDF out,that doesn't cost you anything.
(12:28):
It probably took you a lot of time andenergy to build it, but once you had
it, sending it out, didn't take a lot.
That's very high leverage.
And then we met, give me accessto the vault, very high leverage.
You've already have the vault.
And so sharing that it creates that power.
But I, what I really liked was thatidea of keeping your, your intro short
and then turning around and saying,but I really want to learn about
you because that's, that's a great.
(12:52):
The term gets a bad name, but you know,it's great power play, you know, confident
people say that not confident people like,Oh, let me tell you everything I do this
and this and this and this and this andthis and this and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, confident people like, Oh, I'm, I dothis and this, but tell me more about you.
I don't need to share who I am.
I want to learn about you and help you.
And the person you're talking tothen says, wow, wow, this guy's
willing to help me and he must bereally established because he can
(13:13):
explain himself in four words.
And it's just, it's so powerful.
The more you need to talk about yourself.
The smaller it makes you look.
Exactly.
So, you know, again, I want to focuson giving something that's going to
help the other person, whatever it is,a connection, a resource, my wisdom,
insight from my, you know, 30 some yearsof experience, because I've seen the good,
(13:38):
the bad, and the ugly as entrepreneursis or in network marketing, either way.
I mean, you know, there's a lot ofpeople out there doing it wrong.
So when you're networking, the questionyou want to ask yourself is my net.
Working when I'm networking.
If you realize, are you, youknow, what are your numbers?
Are you, you know, it's like, how manynetworking events do you go to in a month?
(14:01):
I know my numbers.
How many one on ones are youactually having with people?
You know, what are your IPAs,your income producing activities?
And that is about re Developing andcreating the right relationships.
There's an art as it relates to whatyou're doing, how you attract the right
people into your net, you know, as faras collaborations or people that have
(14:24):
a potential doing business someday,how you retain the right relationship.
And the T is the transformationthat they're going to have
because of the relationship thatthey're going to have with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, that's really good.
And a lot of that starts withclarity on what is your business?
Who's your target audience?
(14:45):
Who do you serve?
How do you serve them?
Which is certainly something I knowwell that you can meet lots and lots
of people and not make any money fromit if you don't have that clarity.
And if people are saying,yeah, you're great.
How can I help you?
What do you need?
Who do I refer you to?
Which there have been times in my careerwhen a lot of people ask me that question.
My answer was I don't know.
So definitely having the answerto who do you need to meet?
(15:07):
Where what is your income?
You know, what are yourincome producing activities?
Where does your revenuecome from is is crucial.
You know, the key is it relates to people.
I'm looking to meet is very simplepeople that are serious and committed
about taking what they're doing to thenext level because Every time I have
a communication with whoever I havea communication with, I go into that
(15:29):
communication with the knowing, theknowingness of the fact that there'll
be something that I'm going to say tothem as I understand them and I focus
on what I can do to be of value to them.
Yep.
So tell me more about how you gotinto the network marketing space.
So, you know, what made you decide to gofull time and, and how were you doing it
(15:49):
differently than, than the thousands ofpeople every day who get in and then get
back out because it doesn't work for them?
Well, before I do it, I want to talkabout how I got involved in networking,
and then I'll get into network marketing.
Even better.
Let's go all the way back.
Yeah, all the way back.
And, you know, it was back in 1983, andI always loved to meet people because I
(16:10):
understand the value of relationships.
There was a guy that was a 70 yearacquaintance of my mom, Harvey McKay.
And Harvey wrote the book, DigYour Well Before You're Thirsty,
but before he wrote that book, andI look at him as the godfather of
networking back in 1983, coming out ofMinnesota, the Minnesota Gophers had
a very different Bad football team.
(16:32):
They had won one gameand lost all the rest.
They were outscored by theiropponents by three to one.
And through his ability andnetworking, he brought Lou Holtz in
to coach the Minnesota Gophers, whoat the time was a pristine coach.
And he, within two years, the Gopherswere ultimately in the bowl games.
Now Harvey, who just turned 90 lastyear, he brought like 300 of his
(16:56):
closest friends to have a birthdayparty and he did it up first class.
He did the same thing at 80 years.
So I sort of modeledmyself after Harvey McKay.
I realized that You know, if hecould do it and he was my model,
I could become an elite networker.
So anyhow, that was, that's why Istarted looking at networking now, as
far as how I got a network marketingis a little sister and a fraternity
(17:20):
that I graduated many years before itcame to me telling me ultimately how
much money this fraternity brotherof ours was making that attracted me.
to the profession.
Now, at the point, I didn'tknow what I didn't know.
I dove in headfirst and withinthe first six months, I created
more depth than anybody, you know,that I would like to talk about.
(17:42):
But I, you know, I hadto learn about reframing.
And as far as about reframe, becauseone of the things I learned early
on is if we're in action, whateveractions we're doing, we're going to
have different experiences, you know,I love the definition of experience.
Experience is what you get whenyou don't get what you want.
So I had to reframe what happened.
So I sat back and I said, if I'm going torun a franchise, what would it cost me?
(18:04):
If I were, you know, I grew up from you.
Ultimately you know, as you mentionedthe my introduction, a very wealth,
you know, a quality family, you know,a lot of millionaires around me.
So I sat back and I said, youknow, this is going to serve me.
So I realized I was not going to quit.
I was going to be able to master because Iwant to get away from our family business.
In our family business.
(18:25):
There was too much family in thefamily business was my family.
And I wanted to, I wanted to have thefreedom that I saw in network marketing.
That was how I started.
Now, to me, where it's come to isI want to live a life of meaning
based on helping other people.
And that's the beauty of networkmarketing, because it's based
on a geometric progression.
(18:45):
The numbers will always work.
People don't, but with systems in placeand with technology evolving to where it
is today, you're able to plug people in.
And the only way you make money ishelping other people make money.
Okay.
And so it's a matter of reframing,figuring out that you need to look
at this like a business and notjust, which I think it's a story.
(19:08):
A lot of people have is becausepartly because they're sold
this, you know, Oh yeah.
Let's talk to a few friends.
You'll make a bunch of money.
And, and, you know, if you, if youthink of it compared to a McDonald's
franchise or seven 11 franchise.
Cheapest franchise you're evergoing to buy, but you've got to do
the work because you don't have.
It's not just build a McDonald's, hiresome staff and sell some cheeseburgers.
You actually need to get outthere and really follow the
(19:32):
playbook they're giving you.
The real work is working on yourself.
When I started off, you know, I cameacross a cassette tape series by Wayne
Dyer and it was called No Limit Person.
And as I'm listening to it, I came to therealization that the limits that existed,
I was responsible for them being there.
Mm.
Take responsibility for what is, youcan take it for what will be, but
(19:53):
most people are in a state of denial.
And I love the acronym of denial,which is don't even notice.
I am lying.
So I took responsibility for.
The things I wanted and I focusedon personal growth and development.
So the key in everything is continuallyimproving your skillset so that you can
(20:14):
create the results and take responsibilityfor the kind of life that you want.
Okay.
Yep.
Yeah.
I've often said that entrepreneurshipis just applied self improvement
because yeah, if you got a job andyou're, and you got issues, well, you
know, you still probably get paid tostill probably get along, you got on,
you got a business, you got issues.
They are all right.
They're gumming up your engine and.
(20:36):
And front and center inevery relationship you have.
So yeah, there's a lot to that.
And then I, yeah, I like that, thatdenial expression because a lot of
people don't realize that they are.
They are lying to themselves.
They're holding themselves back.
Most people settle.
They trade time for money.
They're working on somebody else's dream.
Yep.
What you want to do is you want to,you know, first of all, realize that
(20:57):
you can create the kind of life that'sof meaning and that you can create
anything that you really want once youstart seeing and thinking differently.
So, but most people settle andthey just trade time for money.
Yep.
That makes sense.
So in network marketing, do you,do you recommend that people Work
with, you know, I guess, yeah.
How, how would yourecommend they get into it?
(21:18):
Do they find one company that I liked?
They find the best financial opportunity.
They find a product.
They like, they workwith multiple companies.
Well, for the most part, I don'tbelieve in working multiple companies.
If you're going to work multiplecompanies, no more than two.
Okay.
And you know but obviously you've got tobelieve in what you're doing, you know, if
you, because that's going to show through.
(21:41):
If you're incongruent with what you'resaying and what you're doing, you
know, I look at network marketing.
It's like putting together a puzzle.
Meaning there's multiple differentpieces, the right support system,
the right product that you reallybelieve in the right system
that you can plug people into.
Because one of the things Italked about in my book, you
want to create interdependent,not codependent relationships.
(22:05):
Today, it's a lot easier because whenI started off in network marketing,
I talked to you, or I mentioned aboutthe Wayne Dyer cassette tape series.
Over a period of time, I probably spent100, 000 in self improvement from the
cassettes I bought, the CDs I bought,the books I read, and the seminars.
Today, if you know where to lookfor that kind of stuff, you can
(22:27):
find it almost all for nothing.
Yeah.
Or very little cost.
Yeah, that's, that's huge.
Yeah, I think that, that idea ofyou have to love the product is key.
Yeah.
Because there's, there'sso many MLM coming out.
I mean, there are probably thousands.
And.
Lots of them have great havea great or great products.
But, uh, so I think sometimes peoplesee the opportunity of MLMs and they
(22:50):
attach it at one company and say, Well,I don't really love, you know, hair
accessories, but the opportunity is great.
So I'm going to do it.
not realizing they could also dothat with anything from online
training to nutritional supplementsto knives to clothes to whatever.
There's plenty of companies that havethat model but you really did, you're
(23:12):
right, that, that, that incongruityif you're You know, if I'm going out
trying to sell skincare products,people are going to feel like you don't
really care about skincare products.
Do you know, first of all, I believein multiple streams of income, and
I've got an acronym for that, which isCLAP, C L A P, your coaching consulting
business, your leveraged resource.
For example, if you've got aproduct and you've got affiliates
(23:33):
representing that product.
That's an example of a leveraged resource.
M is another example ofa leveraged resource.
A is your affiliate incomeand P is your passive income.
And that's anything that's havingyour assets work for your assets.
As far as in a couple of differentexamples, I put it in that category.
I love sports memorabilia, soI've made some money there.
(23:56):
Back when the stock market was 3000,I was investing in the stock market.
Real estate's another example.
Gold and silver is another example.
You know, cryptocurrencyis another example.
I'm not ha I'm personally not incryptocurrency, but there's multiple
different ways that you can take advantageof your P and the passive income.
Yep.
And then, so you talked about yousaid leverage, which is uh, which like
(24:18):
you have a product being promoted bysomeone else or MLM versus affiliate.
And talk about the differencebetween those two, two categories.
Well, for example, I know based on thethings you've got, you know, you've
got to leverage resources and thethings that you're representing, but
part of the leverage resource, and Imight not, you know, because I'm not
going to be in competition with you,I believe in cooperation, but I might
(24:41):
say, you know, Michael, if I, you know,if you're promoting an event you've
got an affiliate program and I canjust send that link because I believe
in who you are and what you're doing.
And so that's an affiliate.
That's one example, seven figures.
Funding is another example for peoplethat ultimately don't have that.
Usually credit card companieshave got an affiliate program,
which most people don't realize.
(25:02):
You know, why do you think the airlinespromote other people's credit cards?
Because they're going to makeongoing residual incomes.
You know, those are just a fewexamples of the many affiliate kind
of programs that are out there.
In fact, Amazon started withan affiliate program and still
does have an affiliate program.
I've made dozens of cents off that.
(25:23):
Some of those Amazonaffiliates, like one and 2%.
But you know, it's a couple of bucks.
It's something yes.
So, so they kind of go together.
The, you know, my affiliate incomecould be your leverage income
if I'm promoting your program.
Right.
So the affiliate is what I'm making,selling someone else, promoting
someone else's stuff to my audience.
And the leverage is what you'reselling to someone else's audience.
(25:43):
Yeah.
And let me jump in for a second,because one of the things that I've
learned is most people would ratherpromote something else than try to sell.
Of their own, you know, as farback as I can remember, I was
told I could sell ice to Eskimos.
No, I've never tried.
I believe I could, butlet me define selling.
What selling really is,is presenting information.
(26:05):
Here's the two key words, whenappropriate, that allows somebody
to make an informed decision.
That's all selling is.
Once you're clear aboutreally what selling is.
Let's see, most people don'tdo the proper exploration.
They haven't done the proper figuring out,is this person even interested in what I
might have, might be able to offer them?
(26:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, theone appropriate is key.
Yeah.
Make sure that value.
Yeah.
And I think that that's interesting,especially because I'm so, you know, I'm
so immersed in the course creator spaceand the, the coaching space and, and it
probably is very true that most peoplewould rather sell someone else's stuff
than make their own thing and sell it.
And for any coaches who are listening,some of them might be like, no,
(26:48):
no, that doesn't sound right.
Cause everyone wants me to promotetheir stuff and doesn't want to promote
my stuff, which could be becauseyou're talking to the wrong people.
Because if you're all course creatorsand you're talking to each other,
you've all got a course to move.
Then there's the other 8 billionpeople on earth who haven't created
a course they're trying to sell.
(27:10):
Exactly.
And yeah, so that's what I've beeninteresting area to, to explore a
little bit more is that idea of, of,you know, if your pool is too small
and people are all just like you.
Talk about the value of diversity innetworking outside of your circles to
finding people who aren't just like you.
(27:31):
Let me give you a perfect example.
A couple different people in some of mynetworking groups are divorce coaches.
And so, you know, one of mysuggestions, and quite often
it's just giving a suggestion.
I said, what you might want to do is startdoing podcasts of people that have been
happily married for x period of time.
(27:52):
So that way you can offer that.
To people that are havingrelationship challenges.
The secrets I've learned frompeople that have, you know, that
have been happily married for over10, 20, whatever period of time.
But again, it's thinking differently.
And that's the one thing that JimFeldman helped me shift my thinking
with his example of 3d thinking.
(28:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a powerful concept.
Thinking outside.
Because if you're focused on just peoplewho've gotten divorced, then by the time
you're reaching them, so is everyone else.
So when you're talking to peopleand you know, again, it opens
up a whole different dynamics asit relates to what you're doing.
(28:34):
If you're interviewing people asyou're a divorce coach that have
been happily married, so you'reextracting some of the secrets.
That's sort of like what you're doing.
As it relates to networking and the,you know, you're extracting from other
people's wisdom and you're able tohelp guide people and it's increasing
your know, like, and trust based on ifyou're either giving away or selling
(28:56):
either way, it's, you know, you know,it's helping your brand, your image.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, that's true.
And I'm reminded of, I was talkingto a mortgage coaching, a mortgage
broker, a loan originator.
And, and I was saying that they should beproducing content around credit repair,
debt consolidation, that kind of stuff.
And they said, they said, why people withbad credit can't, can't get a mortgage.
(29:18):
I'm like people with bad credit can'tget a mortgage today, but if you help
them improve their credit, you thinkthey're going to go to someone else when
it comes time to take their mortgage out.
If you've been working with them,but that's, that's about the long,
the long plan too, because it couldtake two or three, five years, but
if they're in it for the long game.
Then it makes sense to go go aftersomeone who's going to need a mortgage
(29:39):
in five years Instead of someone whoneeds a mortgage today because every
mortgage broker is going after that guyYeah in the back end in that scenario
is once that person has improvedtheir credit you help them get the
house Guess what they're going to do.
They're going to refer Manyof their friends to you Yeah,
and that's, that's powerful.
(29:59):
And even if they're friends who havebad credit, then you hopefully have some
kind of systems in place and education inplace or partnerships in place that when
they come to you, you'll be like, great.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they'll go through the systemor, or there's a course or whatever.
And then see in three years,it's time for you to buy a house.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's about thinking, thinkingalong the long game there.
(30:20):
And yes, you mentioned somethingabout you know, learning through
networking too, is you meet all thesepeople and, and learn from them.
You know, talk a bit about how networkingcan be an educational tool, how you
can learn from the people you meet.
You know, I always am looking to learn.
I mean, some of the acronyms that I'vecome up with were things that I got from
other people, but everybody that youmeet, you know, they've got their own life
(30:44):
experience and a lot of who I am today.
Is because i've learned it from otherpeople or i've learned it through the
experiences that i've had So, I meanI can't even tell you how many things
i've learned from jim feldman as oneexample The guy that I you know, I love
to network with is mori zukovich andanytime Somebody's telling me they've
(31:05):
got some kind of mental challenge Irefer Morrie because I, with his brain
entrainment, that's just a, you know,another example, but I always learning,
you know, and going back to our BetterChange podcast every Tuesday night.
Our whole focus and what we wanted todo was create a community that would
be there to serve other people andbe of value to other people because
(31:26):
what I've realized, my definitionof wealth is a direct relationship.
To the value and service that you bringto the marketplace and the rewards
the marketplace will give you back.
So what is the marketplace?
It's people.
The more that you can show upto be of service and value.
Now, obviously, as you're dealingwith people, you have to set your
boundaries because otherwise people havea tendency to take advantage of you.
(31:50):
So, you know, you've got to be able toshift it from once you've given enough.
If they want to continuallyget your wisdom, you know.
To focus more, you know, segueinginto more of a business relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then that, that's a key thing isthat people, and I don't think it's
about their, their takers or theirgreed or they just don't, you know, they
are desperate for this information andthey, a lot are in a place of scarcity.
(32:14):
And they're like, please give me more,I need more, I need more, I need more.
And it's okay to say, I'm happy togive you more, but past this line,
there's a charge, you know, thereis a, there's a transaction, there's
a commercial relationship we'regoing to have beyond that point.
YeAh, so it's but you you wantto be able to provide that value.
Without without having them consume allof your time and all of your energy.
(32:39):
That is that is key.
So, so we've covered a lotof different areas from M.
L.
M.
S.
How to meet people, how to improveyourself through networking,
how to connect to people.
Is there anything I have not yet touchedon that you'd like to like to address?
Oh, you know, I mean, there'sa couple different things.
First of all, a couple of, youknow, some of my favorite sayings, a
(33:00):
person's character is like a teabag.
You never know what's inside ofit until it gets into hot water.
That's one of the things people willreveal who they are over a period of time.
Obviously, I see thegreatness in everybody.
The second thing is thefact that it doesn't matter.
Where somebody starts in lifeor where they are now, the key
is the direction they're headedand where they choose to end up.
(33:22):
So if you're not creating the kind ofresults that you're looking for, when
you're networking, you know, hopefullysome of the things that I've said today
whenever you're listening to them willbe a value or either that, or continually
come back to Michael's podcast, becauseI know he's going to be interviewing
some amazing people and you can.
You can take bits and pieces from whatother people said and create your own
(33:45):
puzzle and develop your own map tocreate the kind of life that you deserve.
I love it.
That's, that's all great stuff.
So so a couple of things youmentioned, the Better Change
podcast, how can people find that?
iF you can take a look at right abovemy give me a second, I'll give it.
It's the 832 do yousee it right above 832?
Yeah, yeah, so, so Zoom 832 7737 4699.
(34:10):
Of course, that'll be inthe, the show notes as well.
And that's And that's every Tuesday, 5 p.
m.
Pacific, 8 p.
m.
Central.
Awesome.
And it's just for myself, andagain, it's a growing community.
We're not pitching.
We're there to serve people.
Okay.
And then the, the notes also say you havea complimentary gift that people can text.
I do.
That's awesome.
(34:30):
All they have to do is go tomy calendar, which is cal only.
com forward slash, but when, and makesure that you put Michael so that I know
where you came from, because normallyI sell this for a lot of money and I
will be, you know, normally 495, butI'll give it to you absolutely free.
As long as you've got Michael'sname with my calendar and I'll spend
(34:53):
a half an hour with you based onthe things we talked about here.
Understand.
You know what you do, whatyou're doing and focus on what
I can do to be of value to you.
Great.
And of course, if, if you forgethow to spell his name, you can just
remember his clever catchphrase.
Robert, what's your clever catchphrase?
When you connect with Robert,you'll do nothing but win.
(35:16):
That's B U T W I N.
I love it.
All right.
Well, this has been great.
Thank you so much for sharing everything.
And if you're listening,definitely take advantage.
Robert has so much knowledgeto share and he is so generous.
to a limit.
So generous with his knowledgeand advice and and resources and
definitely a great guy to have inyour network and your community.
(35:36):
And again, you go to calendly.
com slash, but when B U T WI N and all the rest of that
will be in the show notes.
Thank you so much, Robert.
Thank you, Michael.
It's always a pleasure.
Thank you so much for joining us onthe guy who knows the guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse.
Be sure to join us in the nextJV connect, learn all about it.
(35:57):
JV dash connect.
com.
You can also get my five steps toprofitable networking course for
free right there on that site.
Our goal is that in two days, you'regoing to get over a hundred thousand
dollars of value from the connectionsyou made, and this applies, whether
you are brand new in business or wellestablished, so be sure to join us.
JV.
Dash connect dot com in March,June, September and December.
(36:22):
All the dates and details areright there on the website.
Welcome back to the GuyWho Knows A Guy podcast.
These are bonus episodes thatdid not fit into Season 6, which
was a countdown to JV Connect.
We hit JV Connect and we still had somegreat interviews to share with you.
But don't worry, youhaven't missed JV Connect.
It's a quarterly event.
You can learn more about it by stickingaround to the end of this episode.
We'll tell you all about it.
But right now, check out this nextawesome interview with one of the awesome
(00:26):
people that the Guy Who Knows A Guy knowsand is going to introduce to you now.
Welcome
once again to the guywho knows a guy podcast.
I'm Michael Whitehouse, theguy who knows the guy himself.
And today I have with me networkmarketing, Maverick and visionary
(00:47):
entrepreneur, Robert Butwin descendedfrom a lineage of successful
entrepreneurs and self made millionaires.
Robert Butwin's journey is atestament to breaking the mold.
Early, he decided to step away fromthe conventional country club smart
business practices ingrained in hisupbringing, instead choosing the path
of network marketing for its personalfulfillment and financial stability.
Robert began his network marketingendeavor part time 39 years ago.
(01:11):
Quickly grasping its immensepotential, he transitioned to a full
time network marketer, a role he'sembraced since September 7th, 1990.
This shift marked the beginningof a career in which he became.
Psychologically unemployable,finding his true calling outside
the traditional job market.
And I'm very excited to have him herebecause Robert's probably forgotten
(01:31):
more about network than I'll ever know.
So welcome to the show, Robert.
Hey, Michael, it's a pleasure to meet you.
And you know, it's serendipitous becauseactually we met networking and over
a period of time we continually seemto show up in the similar places and.
Develop the relationship from there.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The number of times someonesaid to me, do you know Robert?
But when you should talk tohim, like, yeah, I know Robert.
(01:56):
Super.
Yep.
So definitely great to have you on here.
And you know, I was telling you beforewe got started, this is the first
season where I'm really focusingon sharing networking knowledge and
teaching networking through the podcast,which is weird because the first five
or more showing off, like, look atall these cool people I know, and
now we're really focused on sharingknowledge so other people can do.
what I did and meet cool people like you.
(02:17):
So let's just kick it off withjust a quick piece of advice
because I always get a quick win.
For someone out there who's like,I've heard about networking,
but it hasn't worked for me.
I've gone to events.
I drink the wine, eat the cheese,but nothing really happens.
For someone who hasn't found the,the power of networking, what would
your advice be to them to really?
Get the value that we'vegotten from a couple of things.
(02:41):
First of all, you're probably closerbecoming a master at it than you know,
and going back to, and I remember thecartoon of this frog that he was Halfway
down the stork's throat and on thecapsule is never, never, never give up.
One of the things I can tell youis that your net worth is a direct
(03:01):
relationship to the value of your network.
So again, you're closer than youprobably know and don't give up.
Okay.
All right.
And so do you think it might be likewhere people are networking or how they
are like when you encounter people whoI assume you sometimes have people say,
yeah, networking doesn't work for me.
What do you find is holding people backfrom from getting out of the birds throat?
(03:23):
Well, first of all, I thinkit's a combination of different
things and expression.
I learned in Asia.
Same, same, but different.
The similarities and differencesfrom every human being.
It could be your belief system.
It could be what you're doing, orit could be where you're doing.
The key is knowing where and how to do it.
I mean, some of the biggest mistakes.
That I see people make whenthey're networking is number one.
(03:45):
They're not brandingthemselves quite often.
They're branding You know, whateverthey're representing not themselves
second biggest mistakes is they're toofocused on Transactions now, obviously
we all are looking to create transactionsBut the reality is you want to focus
on collaborations if the key is almosteverybody today is looking for visibility
(04:08):
credibility and connectivity Hmm.
Talk a bit more about brands.
I don't understand what you mean.
The people are doing wrong.
They're like, hi, I'm, I'mMichael with remax or, you know,
I'm Joe with New York life.
And so they're not talking aboutwho they are and establishing
themselves as a brand.
But what's the solution to that?
How do they brand themselves?
(04:28):
Well, actually, I'm going, you know,I'm going to borrow something that I
heard you say that you heard somebodyelse say the seven magic words and
it, you know, how, dah, dah, dah, dah,dah, whatever it is, what I do is.
Hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, the problem you're solving.
But that's just one example.
(04:48):
I mean, quite often, and I'm very proMLM, but there's many times I see people
get on and they're talking about theirMLM, that's just example, or their real
estate or whatever it is, you are thebrand and what you do, what you want to
be doing is branding, you know, who, youknow, what you can help other people.
Hmm.
(05:09):
Yes.
No, I, I definitely noticed things.
I certainly seen peoplewho get up and they say.
You know, we have a product that that doesthis and as a billion dollars, and I'm
looking like you don't have that product.
You might represent that product,but I'm pretty sure you don't
have a billion dollar company.
And again, it comes across verydisingenuous, not disingenuous,
but out of alignment.
(05:30):
You're the words in the music aren'tmatching when people are talking
about the company as if it's them.
Right.
I mean, nobody really wants tobe pitched unless you really
understand who that other person is.
The only thing, as far as what I look atwhen I network, I'm trying to pitch them
of why they want to get to know me better.
(05:50):
Why they want to do the one on onethe magic really happens when you Have
the one on one and then we can talkabout that in a little bit, but you
know You don't want to be pitching.
I mean if you know if all you'recoming across is pitching somebody.
Yep Resistance levelgoes up Yes, absolutely.
And actually let's talk about MLMs fora moment because I'm sure, you know,
(06:11):
some people have had good experiencewith them and they understand the
power of them and the power of thesystem, but other people have not
maybe have such a positive experience.
And so share a little bit aboutfor people who have, who have may
have a negative impression of MLMs.
What is it that makes them so, so goodand powerful and what makes such a fan?
(06:31):
Well, unfortunately, quite often, youknow, the, the biggest assets, the
biggest liability in NLM, which is theseof entry, it's very easy for somebody
to get involved for very little dollarsand make a lot of money, but it also
brings a lot of the wrong element.
People that really haven't embraced it.
I've said for many years onstage, if people really understood
this business model, especiallywhere it is today, compared.
(06:55):
To where it was when Istarted 30 some years ago.
Everybody would be involved with itfor a variety of different reasons.
The biggest reason why somebody mightnot be involved in it is because
they've got the misperception thing.
They think it's about selling products.
They think the fact is, if I get youinvolved in an MLM, you're working for me.
Actually, the antithesis of that is true.
(07:18):
If I get you involved in a particularcompany, I'm working for you because
really what you're looking for isFrom that other person is their time,
energy and effort, their resources.
And the only way they're goingto continually stay involved
is if they can see some wins.
So again, if you know, it'sgetting clarity about what that is.
And today, most MLM companiesare really what I call a hybrid.
(07:41):
They're a cross between aaffiliate with a leverage backend.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's something I always appreciatemy, you know, I have, I have a, an
audience and email lists, resourceletter, and I've encountered a number
of companies that are MLM structured.
And I said, Oh, I like what you do.
I'd be happy to show it to my audience.
And they're like, great.
You got to come to thistraining and do this and wear
(08:02):
a hat and drink the Kool Aid.
I'm like, no, no, no, no,no, you don't understand.
I will send emails, sendingpeople to you to talk to.
Oh, we don't do things that way.
I'm like, cool.
Guess I'm not promoting you.
That that's why I, you know, I recentlydiscovered the great discovery and.
And I like them because because they'reactually set up that I can use my,
you know, I like what they're doing.
I like their philosophy.
(08:22):
I can take what they're doing andsay, hey, come to this info session.
This guy will be hereto explain it for you.
I don't need to explain it.
I don't have to go learn everything.
I can bring what I have.
And then marry it to what theyhave and create value for everyone
instead of everyone having to,you know, wear the robes and drink
the Kool Aid as they do at some.
Exactly.
(08:43):
Sometimes, you know, and again, one ofthe guys I've met through networking, Jim
Feldman, his website is shift happens,but sometimes all you need to do is
shift how people look at it because.
You know, today they've gotsystems in pro I mean, in place.
So all you have to do is plug peopleinto the system and they don't have to
go through the training or your uplinecan handle that for you or whatever.
(09:05):
But sometimes a small difference inhow you think or look at something
will make the biggest differenceas it relates to networking and
everything else you do in life.
Yeah, yeah, that is.
That's a huge thing.
So, so you're going to, yousaid you're going to talk
about one on ones a little bit.
So let's talk about that.
Cause you know, you meet people andthat's, that's where the action happens.
You meet someone at an event, yousay, let's follow up and then what?
(09:30):
You know, the biggest thing andthere's, I love acronyms, which
I think, you know, and I love theacronym USC and that's not the college
in Southern California, but it'sunderstanding who the other person is.
Now, if the other person asks you.
What you do, keep itshort, sweet, and simple.
So if somebody asked me what I do, I say,I'm a elite networker and a strategist.
(09:51):
And then I flip it back on them.
I'd like to find out more about what youdo, because if I understand what they
do, what they're doing to expand theirnetwork and understand what's going on in
their world, you know, and I mentioned,you know, for example, Jim Feldman.
And when I originally met Jim, Isaid, I'm an out of the box thinker.
(10:12):
And he says, I mean, my whole livingwithin the box thinking as that relates
to networking, you know, it's, you know, Iuse what he calls 3d thinking, understand
the depth of the other person's problem,which is going back to understanding,
understand the distance to the solutionas it relates to what they're doing.
So if you're in the, the lastday is the determination of
(10:36):
them to solve their problem.
So when I'm.
Talking with somebody, Iwant to understand really
what's going on in the world.
And then my next part of that S is figureout how I can be of service or value.
For example, when you and I first met,I've got this vault of information that
I normally sell for a lot of money,but I gave it to you at no cost because
one of the things about networking,it's like opening a bank account.
(11:00):
You need to make deposits.
a withdrawal.
So I'm focused on being of service.
If the person's looking to get morevisibility, I've got a whole list,
just like you do, of different peoplethat might have podcasts or resources
where I can guide them, guide them to.
I've got a list of 60 differentnetworking events in the vault.
So I'm trying to focus on whatI can do that will help them.
(11:24):
As it relates to what they're doing.
And then I want to focus on the C,which is, you know, have clarity of
communication, focus on connectingfrom a human to human, and think about
collaboration, you know, it's like,if I can guide somebody to somebody
that would be the right connection forthem, that's another way to increase
(11:45):
your know, like, and trust, which is acommon thing that everybody talks about.
Yeah, and there's a few things that Ireally like people can can learn from it.
First of all, I believe before wemet, I had seen your event list.
I, I can't remember who I think may havebeen Frank Agan, who, who recommended it.
But he said, yeah, if you'relooking for this is what I was
just getting the online space.
(12:06):
He said, there's this guy, Robert,but when he's got a list of.
a zillion events and, and I think heactually may have sent me the PDF.
He's, he's like, I've got this PDF fromRobert Budwin, you know, check this out.
I'm like, Oh, this is pretty cool.
This guy must know his stuff.
I should probably meet him at some point.
So I knew you before I met you.
Because you'd createdthis high leverage asset.
Cause you know, sending a PDF out,that doesn't cost you anything.
(12:28):
It probably took you a lot of time andenergy to build it, but once you had
it, sending it out, didn't take a lot.
That's very high leverage.
And then we met, give me accessto the vault, very high leverage.
You've already have the vault.
And so sharing that it creates that power.
But I, what I really liked was thatidea of keeping your, your intro short
and then turning around and saying,but I really want to learn about
you because that's, that's a great.
(12:52):
The term gets a bad name, but you know,it's great power play, you know, confident
people say that not confident people like,Oh, let me tell you everything I do this
and this and this and this and this andthis and this and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, confident people like, Oh, I'm, I dothis and this, but tell me more about you.
I don't need to share who I am.
I want to learn about you and help you.
And the person you're talking tothen says, wow, wow, this guy's
willing to help me and he must bereally established because he can
(13:13):
explain himself in four words.
And it's just, it's so powerful.
The more you need to talk about yourself.
The smaller it makes you look.
Exactly.
So, you know, again, I want to focuson giving something that's going to
help the other person, whatever it is,a connection, a resource, my wisdom,
insight from my, you know, 30 some yearsof experience, because I've seen the good,
(13:38):
the bad, and the ugly as entrepreneursis or in network marketing, either way.
I mean, you know, there's a lot ofpeople out there doing it wrong.
So when you're networking, the questionyou want to ask yourself is my net.
Working when I'm networking.
If you realize, are you, youknow, what are your numbers?
Are you, you know, it's like, how manynetworking events do you go to in a month?
(14:01):
I know my numbers.
How many one on ones are youactually having with people?
You know, what are your IPAs,your income producing activities?
And that is about re Developing andcreating the right relationships.
There's an art as it relates to whatyou're doing, how you attract the right
people into your net, you know, as faras collaborations or people that have
(14:24):
a potential doing business someday,how you retain the right relationship.
And the T is the transformationthat they're going to have
because of the relationship thatthey're going to have with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, that's really good.
And a lot of that starts withclarity on what is your business?
Who's your target audience?
(14:45):
Who do you serve?
How do you serve them?
Which is certainly something I knowwell that you can meet lots and lots
of people and not make any money fromit if you don't have that clarity.
And if people are saying,yeah, you're great.
How can I help you?
What do you need?
Who do I refer you to?
Which there have been times in my careerwhen a lot of people ask me that question.
My answer was I don't know.
So definitely having the answerto who do you need to meet?
(15:07):
Where what is your income?
You know, what are yourincome producing activities?
Where does your revenuecome from is is crucial.
You know, the key is it relates to people.
I'm looking to meet is very simplepeople that are serious and committed
about taking what they're doing to thenext level because Every time I have
a communication with whoever I havea communication with, I go into that
(15:29):
communication with the knowing, theknowingness of the fact that there'll
be something that I'm going to say tothem as I understand them and I focus
on what I can do to be of value to them.
Yep.
So tell me more about how you gotinto the network marketing space.
So, you know, what made you decide to gofull time and, and how were you doing it
(15:49):
differently than, than the thousands ofpeople every day who get in and then get
back out because it doesn't work for them?
Well, before I do it, I want to talkabout how I got involved in networking,
and then I'll get into network marketing.
Even better.
Let's go all the way back.
Yeah, all the way back.
And, you know, it was back in 1983, andI always loved to meet people because I
(16:10):
understand the value of relationships.
There was a guy that was a 70 yearacquaintance of my mom, Harvey McKay.
And Harvey wrote the book, DigYour Well Before You're Thirsty,
but before he wrote that book, andI look at him as the godfather of
networking back in 1983, coming out ofMinnesota, the Minnesota Gophers had
a very different Bad football team.
(16:32):
They had won one gameand lost all the rest.
They were outscored by theiropponents by three to one.
And through his ability andnetworking, he brought Lou Holtz in
to coach the Minnesota Gophers, whoat the time was a pristine coach.
And he, within two years, the Gopherswere ultimately in the bowl games.
Now Harvey, who just turned 90 lastyear, he brought like 300 of his
(16:56):
closest friends to have a birthdayparty and he did it up first class.
He did the same thing at 80 years.
So I sort of modeledmyself after Harvey McKay.
I realized that You know, if hecould do it and he was my model,
I could become an elite networker.
So anyhow, that was, that's why Istarted looking at networking now, as
far as how I got a network marketingis a little sister and a fraternity
(17:20):
that I graduated many years before itcame to me telling me ultimately how
much money this fraternity brotherof ours was making that attracted me.
to the profession.
Now, at the point, I didn'tknow what I didn't know.
I dove in headfirst and withinthe first six months, I created
more depth than anybody, you know,that I would like to talk about.
(17:42):
But I, you know, I hadto learn about reframing.
And as far as about reframe, becauseone of the things I learned early
on is if we're in action, whateveractions we're doing, we're going to
have different experiences, you know,I love the definition of experience.
Experience is what you get whenyou don't get what you want.
So I had to reframe what happened.
So I sat back and I said, if I'm going torun a franchise, what would it cost me?
(18:04):
If I were, you know, I grew up from you.
Ultimately you know, as you mentionedthe my introduction, a very wealth,
you know, a quality family, you know,a lot of millionaires around me.
So I sat back and I said, youknow, this is going to serve me.
So I realized I was not going to quit.
I was going to be able to master because Iwant to get away from our family business.
In our family business.
(18:25):
There was too much family in thefamily business was my family.
And I wanted to, I wanted to have thefreedom that I saw in network marketing.
That was how I started.
Now, to me, where it's come to isI want to live a life of meaning
based on helping other people.
And that's the beauty of networkmarketing, because it's based
on a geometric progression.
(18:45):
The numbers will always work.
People don't, but with systems in placeand with technology evolving to where it
is today, you're able to plug people in.
And the only way you make money ishelping other people make money.
Okay.
And so it's a matter of reframing,figuring out that you need to look
at this like a business and notjust, which I think it's a story.
(19:08):
A lot of people have is becausepartly because they're sold
this, you know, Oh yeah.
Let's talk to a few friends.
You'll make a bunch of money.
And, and, you know, if you, if youthink of it compared to a McDonald's
franchise or seven 11 franchise.
Cheapest franchise you're evergoing to buy, but you've got to do
the work because you don't have.
It's not just build a McDonald's, hiresome staff and sell some cheeseburgers.
You actually need to get outthere and really follow the
(19:32):
playbook they're giving you.
The real work is working on yourself.
When I started off, you know, I cameacross a cassette tape series by Wayne
Dyer and it was called No Limit Person.
And as I'm listening to it, I came to therealization that the limits that existed,
I was responsible for them being there.
Mm.
Take responsibility for what is, youcan take it for what will be, but
(19:53):
most people are in a state of denial.
And I love the acronym of denial,which is don't even notice.
I am lying.
So I took responsibility for.
The things I wanted and I focusedon personal growth and development.
So the key in everything is continuallyimproving your skillset so that you can
(20:14):
create the results and take responsibilityfor the kind of life that you want.
Okay.
Yep.
Yeah.
I've often said that entrepreneurshipis just applied self improvement
because yeah, if you got a job andyou're, and you got issues, well, you
know, you still probably get paid tostill probably get along, you got on,
you got a business, you got issues.
They are all right.
They're gumming up your engine and.
(20:36):
And front and center inevery relationship you have.
So yeah, there's a lot to that.
And then I, yeah, I like that, thatdenial expression because a lot of
people don't realize that they are.
They are lying to themselves.
They're holding themselves back.
Most people settle.
They trade time for money.
They're working on somebody else's dream.
Yep.
What you want to do is you want to,you know, first of all, realize that
(20:57):
you can create the kind of life that'sof meaning and that you can create
anything that you really want once youstart seeing and thinking differently.
So, but most people settle andthey just trade time for money.
Yep.
That makes sense.
So in network marketing, do you,do you recommend that people Work
with, you know, I guess, yeah.
How, how would yourecommend they get into it?
(21:18):
Do they find one company that I liked?
They find the best financial opportunity.
They find a product.
They like, they workwith multiple companies.
Well, for the most part, I don'tbelieve in working multiple companies.
If you're going to work multiplecompanies, no more than two.
Okay.
And you know but obviously you've got tobelieve in what you're doing, you know, if
you, because that's going to show through.
(21:41):
If you're incongruent with what you'resaying and what you're doing, you
know, I look at network marketing.
It's like putting together a puzzle.
Meaning there's multiple differentpieces, the right support system,
the right product that you reallybelieve in the right system
that you can plug people into.
Because one of the things Italked about in my book, you
want to create interdependent,not codependent relationships.
(22:05):
Today, it's a lot easier because whenI started off in network marketing,
I talked to you, or I mentioned aboutthe Wayne Dyer cassette tape series.
Over a period of time, I probably spent100, 000 in self improvement from the
cassettes I bought, the CDs I bought,the books I read, and the seminars.
Today, if you know where to lookfor that kind of stuff, you can
(22:27):
find it almost all for nothing.
Yeah.
Or very little cost.
Yeah, that's, that's huge.
Yeah, I think that, that idea ofyou have to love the product is key.
Yeah.
Because there's, there'sso many MLM coming out.
I mean, there are probably thousands.
And.
Lots of them have great havea great or great products.
But, uh, so I think sometimes peoplesee the opportunity of MLMs and they
(22:50):
attach it at one company and say, Well,I don't really love, you know, hair
accessories, but the opportunity is great.
So I'm going to do it.
not realizing they could also dothat with anything from online
training to nutritional supplementsto knives to clothes to whatever.
There's plenty of companies that havethat model but you really did, you're
(23:12):
right, that, that, that incongruityif you're You know, if I'm going out
trying to sell skincare products,people are going to feel like you don't
really care about skincare products.
Do you know, first of all, I believein multiple streams of income, and
I've got an acronym for that, which isCLAP, C L A P, your coaching consulting
business, your leveraged resource.
For example, if you've got aproduct and you've got affiliates
(23:33):
representing that product.
That's an example of a leveraged resource.
M is another example ofa leveraged resource.
A is your affiliate incomeand P is your passive income.
And that's anything that's havingyour assets work for your assets.
As far as in a couple of differentexamples, I put it in that category.
I love sports memorabilia, soI've made some money there.
(23:56):
Back when the stock market was 3000,I was investing in the stock market.
Real estate's another example.
Gold and silver is another example.
You know, cryptocurrencyis another example.
I'm not ha I'm personally not incryptocurrency, but there's multiple
different ways that you can take advantageof your P and the passive income.
Yep.
And then, so you talked about yousaid leverage, which is uh, which like
(24:18):
you have a product being promoted bysomeone else or MLM versus affiliate.
And talk about the differencebetween those two, two categories.
Well, for example, I know based on thethings you've got, you know, you've
got to leverage resources and thethings that you're representing, but
part of the leverage resource, and Imight not, you know, because I'm not
going to be in competition with you,I believe in cooperation, but I might
(24:41):
say, you know, Michael, if I, you know,if you're promoting an event you've
got an affiliate program and I canjust send that link because I believe
in who you are and what you're doing.
And so that's an affiliate.
That's one example, seven figures.
Funding is another example for peoplethat ultimately don't have that.
Usually credit card companieshave got an affiliate program,
which most people don't realize.
(25:02):
You know, why do you think the airlinespromote other people's credit cards?
Because they're going to makeongoing residual incomes.
You know, those are just a fewexamples of the many affiliate kind
of programs that are out there.
In fact, Amazon started withan affiliate program and still
does have an affiliate program.
I've made dozens of cents off that.
(25:23):
Some of those Amazonaffiliates, like one and 2%.
But you know, it's a couple of bucks.
It's something yes.
So, so they kind of go together.
The, you know, my affiliate incomecould be your leverage income
if I'm promoting your program.
Right.
So the affiliate is what I'm making,selling someone else, promoting
someone else's stuff to my audience.
And the leverage is what you'reselling to someone else's audience.
(25:43):
Yeah.
And let me jump in for a second,because one of the things that I've
learned is most people would ratherpromote something else than try to sell.
Of their own, you know, as farback as I can remember, I was
told I could sell ice to Eskimos.
No, I've never tried.
I believe I could, butlet me define selling.
What selling really is,is presenting information.
(26:05):
Here's the two key words, whenappropriate, that allows somebody
to make an informed decision.
That's all selling is.
Once you're clear aboutreally what selling is.
Let's see, most people don'tdo the proper exploration.
They haven't done the proper figuring out,is this person even interested in what I
might have, might be able to offer them?
(26:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, theone appropriate is key.
Yeah.
Make sure that value.
Yeah.
And I think that that's interesting,especially because I'm so, you know, I'm
so immersed in the course creator spaceand the, the coaching space and, and it
probably is very true that most peoplewould rather sell someone else's stuff
than make their own thing and sell it.
And for any coaches who are listening,some of them might be like, no,
(26:48):
no, that doesn't sound right.
Cause everyone wants me to promotetheir stuff and doesn't want to promote
my stuff, which could be becauseyou're talking to the wrong people.
Because if you're all course creatorsand you're talking to each other,
you've all got a course to move.
Then there's the other 8 billionpeople on earth who haven't created
a course they're trying to sell.
(27:10):
Exactly.
And yeah, so that's what I've beeninteresting area to, to explore a
little bit more is that idea of, of,you know, if your pool is too small
and people are all just like you.
Talk about the value of diversity innetworking outside of your circles to
finding people who aren't just like you.
(27:31):
Let me give you a perfect example.
A couple different people in some of mynetworking groups are divorce coaches.
And so, you know, one of mysuggestions, and quite often
it's just giving a suggestion.
I said, what you might want to do is startdoing podcasts of people that have been
happily married for x period of time.
(27:52):
So that way you can offer that.
To people that are havingrelationship challenges.
The secrets I've learned frompeople that have, you know, that
have been happily married for over10, 20, whatever period of time.
But again, it's thinking differently.
And that's the one thing that JimFeldman helped me shift my thinking
with his example of 3d thinking.
(28:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a powerful concept.
Thinking outside.
Because if you're focused on just peoplewho've gotten divorced, then by the time
you're reaching them, so is everyone else.
So when you're talking to peopleand you know, again, it opens
up a whole different dynamics asit relates to what you're doing.
(28:34):
If you're interviewing people asyou're a divorce coach that have
been happily married, so you'reextracting some of the secrets.
That's sort of like what you're doing.
As it relates to networking and the,you know, you're extracting from other
people's wisdom and you're able tohelp guide people and it's increasing
your know, like, and trust based on ifyou're either giving away or selling
(28:56):
either way, it's, you know, you know,it's helping your brand, your image.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, that's true.
And I'm reminded of, I was talkingto a mortgage coaching, a mortgage
broker, a loan originator.
And, and I was saying that they should beproducing content around credit repair,
debt consolidation, that kind of stuff.
And they said, they said, why people withbad credit can't, can't get a mortgage.
(29:18):
I'm like people with bad credit can'tget a mortgage today, but if you help
them improve their credit, you thinkthey're going to go to someone else when
it comes time to take their mortgage out.
If you've been working with them,but that's, that's about the long,
the long plan too, because it couldtake two or three, five years, but
if they're in it for the long game.
Then it makes sense to go go aftersomeone who's going to need a mortgage
(29:39):
in five years Instead of someone whoneeds a mortgage today because every
mortgage broker is going after that guyYeah in the back end in that scenario
is once that person has improvedtheir credit you help them get the
house Guess what they're going to do.
They're going to refer Manyof their friends to you Yeah,
and that's, that's powerful.
(29:59):
And even if they're friends who havebad credit, then you hopefully have some
kind of systems in place and education inplace or partnerships in place that when
they come to you, you'll be like, great.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they'll go through the systemor, or there's a course or whatever.
And then see in three years,it's time for you to buy a house.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's about thinking, thinkingalong the long game there.
(30:20):
And yes, you mentioned somethingabout you know, learning through
networking too, is you meet all thesepeople and, and learn from them.
You know, talk a bit about how networkingcan be an educational tool, how you
can learn from the people you meet.
You know, I always am looking to learn.
I mean, some of the acronyms that I'vecome up with were things that I got from
other people, but everybody that youmeet, you know, they've got their own life
(30:44):
experience and a lot of who I am today.
Is because i've learned it from otherpeople or i've learned it through the
experiences that i've had So, I meanI can't even tell you how many things
i've learned from jim feldman as oneexample The guy that I you know, I love
to network with is mori zukovich andanytime Somebody's telling me they've
(31:05):
got some kind of mental challenge Irefer Morrie because I, with his brain
entrainment, that's just a, you know,another example, but I always learning,
you know, and going back to our BetterChange podcast every Tuesday night.
Our whole focus and what we wanted todo was create a community that would
be there to serve other people andbe of value to other people because
(31:26):
what I've realized, my definitionof wealth is a direct relationship.
To the value and service that you bringto the marketplace and the rewards
the marketplace will give you back.
So what is the marketplace?
It's people.
The more that you can show upto be of service and value.
Now, obviously, as you're dealingwith people, you have to set your
boundaries because otherwise people havea tendency to take advantage of you.
(31:50):
So, you know, you've got to be able toshift it from once you've given enough.
If they want to continuallyget your wisdom, you know.
To focus more, you know, segueinginto more of a business relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then that, that's a key thing isthat people, and I don't think it's
about their, their takers or theirgreed or they just don't, you know, they
are desperate for this information andthey, a lot are in a place of scarcity.
(32:14):
And they're like, please give me more,I need more, I need more, I need more.
And it's okay to say, I'm happy togive you more, but past this line,
there's a charge, you know, thereis a, there's a transaction, there's
a commercial relationship we'regoing to have beyond that point.
YeAh, so it's but you you wantto be able to provide that value.
Without without having them consume allof your time and all of your energy.
(32:39):
That is that is key.
So, so we've covered a lotof different areas from M.
L.
M.
S.
How to meet people, how to improveyourself through networking,
how to connect to people.
Is there anything I have not yet touchedon that you'd like to like to address?
Oh, you know, I mean, there'sa couple different things.
First of all, a couple of, youknow, some of my favorite sayings, a
(33:00):
person's character is like a teabag.
You never know what's inside ofit until it gets into hot water.
That's one of the things people willreveal who they are over a period of time.
Obviously, I see thegreatness in everybody.
The second thing is thefact that it doesn't matter.
Where somebody starts in lifeor where they are now, the key
is the direction they're headedand where they choose to end up.
(33:22):
So if you're not creating the kind ofresults that you're looking for, when
you're networking, you know, hopefullysome of the things that I've said today
whenever you're listening to them willbe a value or either that, or continually
come back to Michael's podcast, becauseI know he's going to be interviewing
some amazing people and you can.
You can take bits and pieces from whatother people said and create your own
(33:45):
puzzle and develop your own map tocreate the kind of life that you deserve.
I love it.
That's, that's all great stuff.
So so a couple of things youmentioned, the Better Change
podcast, how can people find that?
iF you can take a look at right abovemy give me a second, I'll give it.
It's the 832 do yousee it right above 832?
Yeah, yeah, so, so Zoom 832 7737 4699.
(34:10):
Of course, that'll be inthe, the show notes as well.
And that's And that's every Tuesday, 5 p.
m.
Pacific, 8 p.
m.
Central.
Awesome.
And it's just for myself, andagain, it's a growing community.
We're not pitching.
We're there to serve people.
Okay.
And then the, the notes also say you havea complimentary gift that people can text.
I do.
That's awesome.
(34:30):
All they have to do is go tomy calendar, which is cal only.
com forward slash, but when, and makesure that you put Michael so that I know
where you came from, because normallyI sell this for a lot of money and I
will be, you know, normally 495, butI'll give it to you absolutely free.
As long as you've got Michael'sname with my calendar and I'll spend
(34:53):
a half an hour with you based onthe things we talked about here.
Understand.
You know what you do, whatyou're doing and focus on what
I can do to be of value to you.
Great.
And of course, if, if you forgethow to spell his name, you can just
remember his clever catchphrase.
Robert, what's your clever catchphrase?
When you connect with Robert,you'll do nothing but win.
(35:16):
That's B U T W I N.
I love it.
All right.
Well, this has been great.
Thank you so much for sharing everything.
And if you're listening,definitely take advantage.
Robert has so much knowledgeto share and he is so generous.
to a limit.
So generous with his knowledgeand advice and and resources and
definitely a great guy to have inyour network and your community.
(35:36):
And again, you go to calendly.
com slash, but when B U T WI N and all the rest of that
will be in the show notes.
Thank you so much, Robert.
Thank you, Michael.
It's always a pleasure.
Thank you so much for joining us onthe guy who knows the guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse.
Be sure to join us in the nextJV connect, learn all about it.
(35:57):
JV dash connect.
com.
You can also get my five steps toprofitable networking course for
free right there on that site.
Our goal is that in two days, you'regoing to get over a hundred thousand
dollars of value from the connectionsyou made, and this applies, whether
you are brand new in business or wellestablished, so be sure to join us.
JV.
Dash connect dot com in March,June, September and December.
(36:22):
All the dates and details areright there on the website.
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