November 10, 2023 • 49 mins
Dive into the transformative world of networking with the 'Guy Who Knows a Guy' podcast! Join host Michael Whitehouse and industry expert Sean Malone as they explore the art of authentic connections, sharing insights on effective networking strategies and the innovative role of technology in platforms like Flow Chat. Elevate your networking game and get ready for the groundbreaking JV Connect event on December 12th to 14th, 2023 – an unmissable experience for business growth and success!
Mentioned in this episode:
JV Connect, December 12-13, 2023
Join us for JV Connect, the dedicated networking event December 12th and 13th, 2023 https://www.jv-connect.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Whitehouse (00:00):
Welcome back to the guy who knows a guy podcast.
We're so excited to be back with you.
And this season we are countingdown to J V connect the first of its
kind, December 12th to 14th, 2023.
This is going to be an incrediblededicated networking event, and you
are going to want to be part of it.
And this podcast here to helpprepare you to get the most
out of this incredible event.
(00:21):
I'm Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows a guy.
And over the next few weeks, you're goingto get to hear from some of the best
people in the industry about networking.
As well as some solo training from me.
So be sure to join us on December12th to 14th for JB Connect.
And now, let's get to the interview.
Welcome back to the guywho knows a guy podcast.
The guy we are meeting todayis Sean Malone of flow chat.
(00:45):
Sean is the CMO co founder offlow chat and comes with over two
decades of studying communication,specifically sales and the lost art of.
prospecting.
He and his teams have successfullygrown more than a, more than a
handful of seven figure businessesand sold a few and have guided four
organizations into the eight figures.
He has personally closed over130 million in his career.
(01:08):
He stays relentlessly focused onsolving the revenue problem for
business owners so they can experiencethe growth and success they deserve.
And he is a loving hubby, cat dad,disc golfer, and sell by chat expert.
So welcome to the show, Sean.
Sean Malone (01:22):
Hey, Michael.
I just want to say, man, what you do,what you stand for is true to my heart.
And I think we hold some ofthe same values very dearly.
So I just appreciate what you do.
And I'm really grateful andhonored to be here on your show.
Michael Whitehouse (01:33):
Great.
Yes.
So I'm excited to have you on here.
As we were talking before we startedabout flow chat, you know, as I've
talked about in my, my blog andemails and whatnot, I talked about
the five corruptors of networking.
And one of them is the automatorand the automator is wants to make
things faster, more efficient and.
If it makes things less human,you know, oops, whatever.
(01:54):
What do we need humans for anyway?
And, you know, like, like the, the programI encountered that scrapes the data out
of a networking event and then encouragesyou to basically pitch everyone who was
there, which is the wrong way to do it.
So I'd love to kick that off to tell uswhy you're not one of the corruptors.
Sean Malone (02:11):
Well first and foremost it comes down to values, you know, like,
and, and I think what automation, whatAI, like, Regardless of all this like
AI automation, very powerful toolswhen used for good, never for evil.
I'm a guy that's alwaysfor good, never for evil.
And so automation is the thingthat everybody's craving.
Hey, I just want to press abutton, let it set up and run.
(02:32):
And my business magically grows.
Unfortunately, that's a mythand a pipe dream that doesn't
usually ever happen, right?
Cause there's always additional workthat needs to go into that, whether it
be optimized or anything else, whatever.
So the idea of.
Communication and the ideaof connection, connection.
There's a study I just watcheddiary of CEO, wonderful
podcast, a video cast they have.
There's a gentleman talkingabout like human connection is
(02:54):
the thing that's being lost.
Human connection, real human,authentic, genuine connection is
the thing that's going to keep ushuman and drive everything forward.
And so when we take that out of anymarketing or selling process, and
we just automate the whole thing,it becomes mindless, robotic.
unfriendly, doesn't feel good, ugly, icky,all the words that you can think of that
(03:19):
like kind of gets you into that boat.
So when we created a the tool thatwe created, it was designed from
a sales brain mentality versusa marketing brain mentality.
Quick definitions there.
So everyone's veryfamiliar and I love both.
Okay.
So, but marketing brain is theguy that says, Hey, look at me.
I'm doing this cool thing.
Come this way.
(03:39):
And they get somebody to open uptheir eyes, the attention side
and a little bit of exposure.
And then once you go down thepathway, if it turns into automation
right after that, it feels terribleas a prospect of somebody who's
buying or investing into the thing.
And so, so marketers aregreat at getting attention.
But in my opinion, they kindof lack the follow through.
(04:01):
And then the sales brain guywhere, where we came from, I've
been in sales for 25 years.
It's all I've ever done andknown is this idea of like, what
does it take to close a deal?
And let's start there and then reverseengineer the whole conversation, make
sure as authentic as possible andtry to template it, but we know it's
going to be a little bit off script.
It's not going to be exact, right?
(04:21):
So if we knew that, and then we just havein front, like the little marketing piece,
now we have a complete system, right?
And it's not automated becausethe way that we configured
the system that we built.
Is within compliance of the 11 socialsthat we play on, and it is a human to
human system executed by clicking a buttonactually sending a message instead of
(04:42):
just hitting an automation button andfiring a bunch of messages of people.
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (04:46):
Yeah, and that's a huge, huge difference.
I think the one key difference too,that I see is the way you talk about it.
So that, that's what bothered me withthe, the, the one that inspired the
automator as the corruptor is theway they talked about it was, he said
that this person found 400 prospectsin in these networking chat logs.
(05:07):
I'm like, they're not prospects.
It's a networking event.
No one's a prospect, a networking event.
That's not why they're there.
No one goes networking out to buyversus that you're, you're starting
by saying, you know, this is aboutconnections, about facilitating
communication, facilitating conversation.
And the user.
Is going to hear your use case andthen say, I want to do your use case.
So if you're saying the use caseis 400 prospects, I would say,
(05:29):
ah, prospects slam into the CRM,send out some sales letters and.
Bam.
And even if that's not whatit's meant for, the marketing
is telling them to do that.
Whereas you're saying,create conversations, create
connections and, and, Well,
Sean Malone (05:44):
and I agree.
I like, I'll just add to that.
It's like people buy from people, right?
Unless, and I guess it kind ofreally depends on price point too.
So depending on what you'reoffering, lower ticket.
Can usually have a little bit or moreautomation and less personal touch.
When you get to kind of likethe higher ticket stuff,
people are buying for people.
They don't buy from a paid ad.
They don't buy from a website.
(06:04):
They got to go talk tosomebody at some point.
Right.
And so here's wherethe disconnect happens.
If you set up all that automationand it goes boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, calls got booked.
And then you jump on the call andyou have no idea about this prospect.
You don't understand whatthey're going through.
You haven't walked in their moccasins.
You haven't understood their story.
And they think they were talking to you.
Right.
That sales process from that initialcall to when the deal actually gets
(06:27):
closed is going to be extended.
And so by having a human to humanconnection and really actually building
know, like, and trust, nurture,rapport, all the things that need
to be in a selling process, right?
This gives you that, that, that thecohesive ability to just get on the
phone and really truly have like alevel of rapport where you can ask
deeper questions and you can get to the.
(06:50):
Closed deal faster, right?
Because everything in this world,if you're trying to build a business
is about sales velocity, you have tohave sales velocity, which is turnover
and new sales coming into a business.
But that sales process flow experiencethat both parties go through you as the
provider, them as the prospect or client,or even a person you're just networking.
To get, to figure out a need,if there even is one, right?
(07:12):
I love networking because it'sa very casual conversation.
It doesn't have to be pushy.
It shouldn't feel like you're pressuredor, Oh my gosh, Sean, what do I say?
What, how do I start a network?
Oh my gosh, I need to come over to you,Michael, like teach me how to network.
It's like, no, no, no, no, just go.
What would you say to your buddyplaying around a disc golf?
What would you say overlike, just connect?
Like that, that piece.
(07:34):
Is what I think is getting lost intranslation with all the rapid development
and tech and AI and all this otherstuff, but there are some people that
are kind of like the rock in the riverthat are saying, no, no, no, this still
needs to be part of the whole process.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
Michael Whitehouse (07:47):
I, I found this is the more we talked about about flow chat.
Yeah.
Think about the way I use email.
So, you know, when I started using emails,I was networking with 20 people a week.
So I was adding 80 people aweek to a month of my network.
I couldn't follow up with 80 people.
I can remember 80 people.
But what I could do is create somegood, authentic, personal content.
You know, not pitchy stuff, but sharing mystories and lessons and stuff that I want
(08:11):
to share with everyone I networked with.
And then I just invited everyoneinto my email community.
They got that content.
If something resonated with them,they'd self identify and be like,
Hey, Michael, let's talk again.
And maybe I remember them in detail.
Maybe I don't, but it's authenticbecause they know it's an email list.
So they, they don'texpect me to know them.
They know this is a one waycommunication, but it still
kept us in touch and connected.
(08:33):
And so, so Joe, I'm always looking forways to network personally, but then make
up for the fact that my mind is a steelsieve and everything falls out of it.
And, and, you know, I, I'm notthe guy who's going to send
thank you cards to everyone.
I can't keep track of all thatstuff, but I really do want
to provide value to people.
I want to stay connected with them.
So when I've got.
3200 Facebook friends or whateverit is you know, we were talking
(08:55):
about this before that I'mrunning JV connect coming up.
It's a very affordable event andno brainer event to buy a ticket.
But if you don't know about it,you're not going to buy a ticket.
You're going to miss out.
I can post on Facebook all day long.
If the algorithm says you don't seemy posts, you don't see my posts.
So how do I make surepeople don't miss out?
And, and that's something andactually that way we can talk a
little bit about that use case of,you know, as I was asking you, if.
(09:21):
If I, you know, can I just use thisto keep track of who I messaged?
You know, I, if I'm messaging a thousandpeople, because I honestly think
they're gonna benefit from this, Ican't remember who I messaged and I'm
going back through and I click on it.
Now I got a message there.
I click on this.
Now I've already gotta messageit, and so I'm missing everyone.
And so that was kinda the first use caseI saw is this system can keep track of
(09:41):
this person got a message, this persondidn't get a message, this person replied
and make it a, you know, a useful platforminstead of just a darts at the wall.
hoping some hit the board and, youknow, and not missing the people I
need to miss or need to need to reach.
So yeah, talk a little bit about how it.
Sean Malone (09:58):
I think I love that.
And thank you for picking up on that.
Cause that's, that's exactlywhat it's for, right?
Like, so, so, so thesoftware is called flow chat.
You can go to flow chat.
com, check it out.
Right.
So that's cool.
But I didn't think that's wherethis, we're going to talk about
networking, this great flow chatdoes four things really, really well.
Number one, it allows you tofind those hyper targeted.
Opportunities to connectwith people, right?
(10:21):
Not just prospects, somepeople call them prospects.
Some people call them leads, right?
I'll, I'll, I'll use theterm like Alex Ramos.
He just put it in his new book,a hundred million dollar leads.
He says the difference between a leadand an engaged lead is the engaged lead
is the person kind of raising theirhand and swimming in your direction.
Right?
So typically people say,I hate outbound, Sean.
I just want to do inbound.
(10:41):
Okay.
Well, let's talk about thedefinition of inbound outbound.
And I'll get back to the flow chatin the four things they do well.
So, so, so inbound is created afterthe creator does some piece of outbound
something in your case, Michael, you'reputting a piece of content out on social.
Somebody sees that and thenthey come in your direction.
How did that start?
You put the piece ofcontent outbound first.
(11:02):
So everything we're doingis actually outbound.
There's inbound is only creatorgenerated by an outbound action.
And so that's, that's where contentnow, most people are like, Oh,
when they hear that definition,like, okay, that makes sense.
Well, how do I start a DM conversation?
Is the next big thing?
Like they get, Oh, like, what do I say?
And that is the piece where most peoplekind of get stuck because a lot of
(11:26):
people have been teaching copywriting.
Here's website copywriting.
Here's email copywriting.
Here's all this type of copyright.
DM message.
Copywriting is significantlydifferent than almost all types
of copywriting that is out there.
So you need a little bit ofknowledge in order to win.
So here's a pro tip for anybodythat does not sound like that guy.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
So pro tip, if you are wanting to use DMSfor your business, to grow your business,
(11:50):
to test ideas, to grow JV partnerships,to get downloads on a podcast, YouTube,
whatever, start with a compliment.
Right.
I've studied this in almost400, 000 VM conversations.
The one that gets the mostengagement is a compliment.
So just give somebody a genuinecompliment on what they're trying
to do or what they're doing fromthe, based on their profile.
(12:11):
Very, very easy way to do it.
It's a very non nonchalant, justcasual way to get in conversation.
Okay.
Backing up to what is supposed to be
Michael Whitehouse (12:20):
a genuine compliment because we all get the, I love what you're
doing with your business and you can tellthat's cut and paste, it needs to be.
You know, I love what you'redoing with your business.
Your, your work with DMS isa fascinating take on it.
So that you actually think that,
Sean Malone (12:37):
or it's like, or I'd come to your profile and it'd be
like the spin that you're putting onnetworking is truly inspirational.
Michael, thank you for beingout in the world and doing that.
You're going to be like, well, that'sa different type of compliment is right
down your niche, right down your alley.
And so it takes four seconds tofigure that out for somebody, right?
Yep.
And if you get hyper notched in yourbusiness, and most people are in that
bucket, like you can use a template andjust tweak it from a couple of words
(13:00):
here and there to make it that way.
Right.
So it can be authentic andyou can run it at scale.
So I'm sharing, I'm just shouting from themountaintops, like you can do it at scale.
So cause that's what everybody wants.
Right.
So, okay.
So Floatzad does four things really well.
Number one, helps you to findthose hyper targeted leads.
As an example, you could go to any postyou've made going outbound, and in one
(13:21):
click, collect all the likes, collectall the commenters from that post
you've made, put them into this Kanbanpipeline type system that manages them
along each stage of that conversation.
Like, hey, did I send him a first message?
Hey, did I ask him this question?
Did I invite them to my call?
Whatever the stages are that you want.
So that's the first thing it does.
It allows you to hyper target leads.
Secondly it facilitates sending messages.
(13:42):
So we don't have anyautomation in the system.
We do manually just set up a templatedconversation one sided, but then
it's just a simple click a button.
And it copies your clipboard, andthen you paste a message, and then you
move the card along in the process ofDMing of where you want them to be.
Okay, so it tracks everything.
That's the thing.
It also helps you to qualify.
(14:03):
So, finds the leads, facilitatesthe message, Qualitate, I guess
qualifying should come beforefacilitating messages in, in theory.
But we have a step by step processthat you can follow to take it from
like suspect to qualified opportunity.
And then we'll facilitate message sending.
And then the last thing it doesreally well is reporting on metrics.
(14:24):
Those are the four things that,that our software does well.
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (14:27):
Yeah, so, so I like that it's, it's so, so human.
And it's not just automating,blasting stuff out.
Now, obviously you, you coulduse it with an assistant.
You could use it with a team andwhatnot, but it can also facilitate
using it for yourself to just makesure you're reaching the right people.
And you don't miss their, their messageback and, and all that kind of stuff.
No, could this be used if someonenow, obviously if somebody
(14:50):
says, how should I network?
I would say, well, I recommendcoming to JV connect.
You'll meet a bunch of people, but ifsomebody wanted network by say, going
on LinkedIn or they're not working fora job, let's say Which they probably
didn't slow chat for that, but let'ssay they were or they're they're
trying to to break into an industry.
Could this be used instead of for a salesprocess for a networking network building
Sean Malone (15:09):
process?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think a couple of greatexamples are recruiting, right?
So like if you're a recruiter, that'sanother really great use cases.
Let's say you're a recruiterfor a fast food restaurant.
I just did a presentation to 7,000 restaurants about this topic.
And it's, it's how do you use techto actually recruit in a way that's
systematic and automatic and not haveto pay like one of those recruiting
(15:30):
agencies, millions of dollars when youget some high ticket person that you hire.
So same thing, right?
So you just set up the messaging outboundon, and it's a different experience.
If you're recruiting, how doyou usually get recruited?
You go to zip recruiter,you go to ladders.
com or whatever, and you look, and thenyou, you apply because you want the job.
And then it's like thatstuffy bad process.
But what if.
(15:51):
On the flip side, that sameexperience could be Michael, man,
you're a, you're a networking pro.
Our business right now is strugglingin the HR world and we need somebody
to come and help with networking.
Would you be up for a quick 15minute call just to see if your
skillset fits what we're looking for?
And all of a sudden now Michael'slike, Whoa, that's right up my alley.
(16:11):
You know, like, and of courseyou're going to jump on that call.
So you're going to get a higherprobability of calls booked
or applications filled out.
You need to jump on the call 15 minutes.
We do have a, you know, like a.
We make sure that our values arealigned and then, okay, great.
Hey, next step is to fillout this application.
Could you do that?
Here's the link.
And I do it on a zoom call.
Now it's a personal conversationfor me to recruit Michael into
my company as a recruiter, right?
(16:32):
So that's, that's just a kind of likea use case that it could be used for.
If you're looking for jobs, same thing.
You can go to LinkedIn.
Again, our platform workson 13 pro platforms.
Doesn't matter where you're at.
LinkedIn say you have sales navigator.
You could pop open your navigatorand run a filter to say, I want all
hiring managers at this type of niche.
It'll pull you a list.
(16:52):
You can click one thing, put that wholelist right into a pipeline and be like,
I'm interested in your be interested.
Obviously I'm interested inlearning more about your company.
I'm thinking aboutapplying at a job there.
Can you talk to me?
And you're reaching out now tothat person that those are the,
that's who hires you, right?
Employers are always lookingfor those people that are like.
(17:13):
Putting activity inand showing the energy.
It's like, show me, don'ttell me kind of a thing.
That's where I feel likeFlowchat could just be superior.
Michael Whitehouse (17:21):
I think what's so powerful about that, too, is that
you can be more personal becausethe technology gets out of the way
or get the work out of the way.
So a lot of recruiters there.
Yeah, it's
Sean Malone (17:32):
like putting the power of less clicks at your
fingertips, putting the power ofAI assistance generated assistance
with messaging at your fingertips.
But don't do it for you, right?
Like that's the idea.
Well, you
Michael Whitehouse (17:44):
know, I get those messages sometimes.
I got a message on LinkedIn the other dayand it said you know, I love your profile.
And are you open to a,to a new opportunity?
And basically you want a job.
And, and my reply was, youobviously did not look at my profile
because nothing about my profilelines with what you just said.
But if you don't have proper automation,then you use blunt automation and you
(18:07):
hire a VA in the Philippines to just.
You know, here's the specs,blast them all with this message
and it's, it's brute force.
It's, you know, send out 10, 000 and hope10 reply and, and that's how it works.
Versus if you have the righttechnology, you don't need to
hire the VA in the Philippines.
You can do it yourselfbecause it's just click.
I'm looking at the next person.
(18:27):
Yeah.
All right.
Is this the right person?
Yes, they are.
Let me tweak this message.
So it's personal.
Them send click andlook at the next person.
So you, the computer becomesyour assistant and it's actually.
You could that's the other thing I'vefound is there's nothing more awkward
than messaging someone and getting andreaching their VA on LinkedIn, but their
VA doesn't know you're a friend of theirs.
(18:49):
So they talk to you like the recruiterand you know, and I've, I've had like,
could I speak to the real Lois, please?
It's, it's like, you know, you know,talking to Sybil that, you know, the
multiple personality or like, okay,which Sybil am I talking to now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is this, is this the real Sybil?
Or is this Juan?
So, so like, so it's interestingbecause the technology allows
(19:12):
you to be used correctly.
I mean, obviously you could use this wrongand, and hire a bunch of people in the
Philippines and blast out a bunch of spam.
But used correctly, it allows you tobe more personally engaged because
you don't need to be spending allthe time searching through lists and
prospecting and And, and digging so youcan spend more time sending messages
(19:35):
and replying to messages and havingconversations and engaging, which seems
Sean Malone (19:39):
huge.
Yeah, I 100 percent agree.
You're absolutely right.
And even just to add to that, ifyou guys know who David Ogilvie
is, he's one of the greatest.
He's like one of the foundingforefathers of copywriting, right?
And what he says is 80 percentof your first dollar spent in
marketing is blown on your headline.
So if we translate, like translatethat into like the DM environment
(20:02):
and messaging somebody outbound forthe first message, we got to spend 80
percent of our time making sure thatfirst message hits, we got to spend.
And 80 percent of our time stayingfocused on making sure the first
message is a genuine, authentic, andreal, and in the right lane, hitting
the niche, saying the right thing.
Because when you do that correctly,right people, right message, big results.
(20:24):
That's it.
There's no other formula.
Michael Whitehouse (20:26):
Well, and this also, you know, one of the things I talk about
is, is this ninja networking rubric.
And there's five levels networking.
The first level is network prospecting,which is what you're talking about.
It's that authentic conversation.
Looking for a problem someone hasand if it's solved by your service,
gently asking for permissionto discuss your, your offer.
And because, you know, who's notgoing to respond well to the, to the
(20:48):
question, would you like help with that?
And, and, and this, this does sort ofthat, that same thing that it's about.
I actually, it's interesting because,you know, we're, we're a Washington
spam and all your email spam andDM spam and, and just meaningless
messages that don't apply to us at all.
We get them like, whyam I even getting this?
You know, I got a message being like,I, you know, I, I help women in their
(21:11):
fifties to find more film into work.
And I'm like, good for you.
I haven't got anything that misaligned,but almost so, but if people had
the right tools, they could, and ofcourse they, they do that because
they don't know any better way.
So they send out, they shotgun it,but with tools like yours, it lets
them be more authentic and letsthem be, and actually reminded.
(21:32):
But when I first got into coachingin 2020, the first thing I did
was a sell by chat strategy.
Yep.
But without any tools,it was I'd make posts.
I'd respond to the comments.
And, and I, I learned oneof talking more strategies.
I
Sean Malone (21:45):
love talking.
Yeah.
Dear friend and his wife, Kiri Marie.
I've been on there.
I was on their leadershipcouncil for a while.
Yeah.
Michael Whitehouse (21:52):
And so that's actually what, what gave me enough
confidence to say, I think I shouldgo into the coaching industry.
I did not actually have the chops todeliver the coaching I was selling
with this very powerful tool.
And so I ended up stopping, stoppingusing it, but yeah, I made 10.
Sean Malone (22:05):
What year was that when you were doing that?
2020.
120.
Okay.
Three years ago.
Yeah.
Right at the
Michael Whitehouse (22:10):
start of the pandemic.
And, and since then I have, you know,become certified and interviewed
200 people and learned a fewthings a few things over that time.
But, but yeah, I think aboutthe strategy was so powerful
because it was so authentic.
It was basically asking people questionsabout what are you trying to do?
Where are you now?
Where are you stuck?
Where do you want to be?
(22:31):
Would you like help with that?
And they were like, yeah, what's next?
And they just walkeddown the path with me.
And I'm thinking about what I wasdoing then, if that was augmented by
a technology that would keep track ofit, you know, I was using a spreadsheet
and, and, you know, last date, andit wasn't, I was a small scale.
I I'd get, you know, fourcomments when I made a post.
So it wasn't massive, but if I, youknow, technology support and I could
(22:56):
see this being really game changing.
There's so many people out there.
They don't want to be cold DMing.
They don't want to be pitching.
They, they want to help.
They have something that actuallyhelps people, but they need a
way to identify who has the need,who's going to raise their hand,
and then how do I draw them in?
And, and so many people, especially peoplein the helping people space, you know,
(23:19):
the holistic space, the mindset space,the spiritual space, they don't want to,
their sales strategy is one that grabsone by the head and, oh man, they want to.
And it seems like this could, this couldreally help them to, to be more authentic
Sean Malone (23:33):
like that.
Yeah.
So I, and I just, I always thinkthrough the lens of like DM
copy, cause that's what I've beenspecializing in for a long time.
And it's so you know, like a firstmessage for somebody in that space.
If you're listening right now, this mightbe a good one is like, Hey Michael, or
I wouldn't even pro tip, never startyour first DM with someone's Hey name.
Because that's what everybody does.
(23:54):
You always want to be different.
So put that person's name at the endof the first sentence after a comma.
That's the pro tip of the world, right?
So, so I would come up to, you know, say,Michael, you're in the mindset space.
One of the first messages Imight send in that case is, Looks
like our energy aligns, Michael.
I'm curious how do you, how doyou, what's your morning routine?
(24:15):
Simple question, right?
Compliment.
Simple question.
That's an easy way to get intoa great conversation about some,
Oh, why'd you choose that one?
Who do you follow?
Like what, all these things.
And then we start transitioning.
So like there's four hinge points inevery DM conversation, and I don't
care if it's for networking, if it'sfor sales, it's for whatever, right.
And the four hinge pointsreally start with the first
thing is getting engagement.
(24:36):
Right.
Do not try to sell fromyour first message.
Everybody tries to dothat and they do it wrong.
Those are the spammy, salesy,the ones that feel like shit
that you don't want to get.
The ones I get a million times a day.
The ones you get a million times a day.
You know, instantly like,nope, block that guy.
Get him out of here.
But right.
So the first thing is we alwayssay focus on is getting engagement.
The second thing we need to do ishave a series of one, two, maybe
(24:59):
three questions that transitionsthem from that engagement.
Into what I call opening the windows.
So you can invite them permissionbased to the next step.
So it goes and get engagementand it goes transition.
So some of the questions we use inour world, a little bit different than
probably what you're in, but it's like.
What's the biggest marketing challengeyou're working on conquering right now?
Question one, they say this great.
(25:22):
What have you tried to do tosolve that second question?
Third, what would it mean foryou to solve this forever?
How much does it cost youto not solve this problem?
Those are great, easy questions thatyou can ask, because then that'll just
completely wrench that conversation from.
Initial message transition into, oh mygosh, you should, you should see our tech.
Here's that window open invite.
(25:43):
And my invite, is it cool if I send youa quick video or are you, is it, would
it be better to just hop on a call?
I mean, it's very casual, great wayto go to a, sending a tenant to a
website or getting call booked or.
And then say yes.
And then the next step would be like, youknow, drop the link in the clear future.
Like, Hey, watch this tomorrow.
And we'll keep talking or whatever.
So,
Michael Whitehouse (26:01):
so I'm interested in your opinion is cause I'll, I'll
sometimes get these and, and, you know,I can see sell by chat when I'm in it.
And yeah, so someone willsend me that kind of message.
And so I'll point blank, askthem, what are you selling me?
And often the reply I get is,Oh, I'm not selling you anything.
I just want to get to know you.
(26:21):
And to my mind, I'mhighly suspect of this.
Of course, if they then try to make anykind of offer, we're done because as
soon as you lie to me, our conversationsover and if you just box yourself in
by saying, I'm not selling anything so,
Sean Malone (26:38):
so that answer is, is not a pro answer.
I mean, that's the big difference, right?
And you can tell when there's someonethat's done it for a while and
there's someone that hasn't, right?
And so that's, that's one of the reasonswhy we offer 16 live sessions per month.
Every month for our users to show upand make sure they say things right.
And so the idea is if, ifsomeone says to me, well, are
(26:58):
you trying to sell me something?
I'd be like, I don't know.
Cause I don't know if I can eventell you anything yet, because I
don't know if you have the challengesor struggles that I solve, but I
do want to learn more about you.
Good answer.
I like that.
Very casual, very right to the point.
Like, cause I don't know if youhave the problem I solve and
everybody needs to remember, noteverybody has the problem you solve.
Michael Whitehouse (27:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Oh.
Yes, so much.
Yes.
Well, and what I like about that as a, asa networker is if somebody reaches out to
me and, you know, cold approaches me and,and I say, you know, what are you selling?
And you say something like that, thenI'm like, that's someone I can network
with because that's someone who I know isgoing to have respectful conversations.
If I refer them to someone, it'ssomeone who I, I'm curious to learn
(27:43):
what you do, because you might knowsomeone I might be able to get with.
Refer, you know, affiliatecommission, referring you to someone.
I might be able to help someoneout, referring you to someone.
But also if you're, you know, ifyou don't just panic and say, Oh
my God, I'm not selling anything.
Then we can have an honest conversation.
And, and, you know, sometimesI'll just let you roll.
I'm like, okay, cool.
(28:04):
Run your process.
Let's see it.
Yeah.
Send your questions.
Because again, you can see ifyou understand the process,
you know, what's coming next.
So,
Sean Malone (28:11):
but also there is a point in that conversation where you shift
from analytical to emotionally involved.
That's the big difference.
And I think that's where people really,they get it right when they do it, right.
And it works a hundredout of a hundred times.
It's so beautiful because you're,you're so smart, Michael, you
know so much about marketing andyou're so good at networking.
Like, dude, I could shower you withaccolades all day because it's real.
(28:33):
Right.
And if you haven't worked withMichael, go work with him right now,
if you're listening to me, but, andsaying all of this, You always start
from that analytical place, right?
You're the logical startof that conversation.
You're like, Oh, I seeright through this strategy.
It's horseshit, or it's good, orwhatever you're thinking as you're
going through, sorry for cussing.
I just get emotional.
(28:54):
And, and,
Michael Whitehouse (28:54):
and right now campus on CBS.
Sean Malone (28:56):
Right.
There you go.
So then at some point you'relike, okay, let it ride.
Like they passed your logicaltest in your flow, right?
In your journey.
Cause every buyer, every prospecthas a different journey, right?
You got to remember that too.
But once we pass that litmus test inyour conversational flow, now they start
asking you if they're asking you theright and good questions, you shift.
(29:18):
from logical to emotional and you realize,Oh, I do have that problem, my business.
And now you're, as soon as you realizethat the conversational flow switches,
because now you're really asking ifthey can help you solve the thing
you're actually struggling with.
That leads to a call in 90 percentof the time it leads to a sale.
Michael Whitehouse (29:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I definitely, I saw that in it, butyeah, I think that's the powerful thing.
And you always want to pay attention.
A lot of process willtell you how to sell them.
They'll tell you what they want, howthey want to be talked to and listen.
So if somebody point blank, you know,when my high D comes out and I say,
you know, are you trying to sell meor what are you trying to sell me?
The, the answer should either be,well, what I have is this or something
(29:59):
like you said, might maybe nothing.
I don't even know right now because Idon't know if you have the problem that
we solve, but I'd like to explore that.
Then yeah, then at that point,my response would be all right.
Cool.
You've been honest.
I know the context of this conversation.
Take it away.
You're in charge.
You know, Lead the parade.
Let's see
Sean Malone (30:19):
where we go.
And I love that you bring upyour, you know, Hydenus and the
personality profile and stuff.
Because I studied extended disc.
I used to teach it, right?
And so I still teach it.
Is this idea of like, if I recognize, andthat's the beauty of communication to DMs,
is you can, in about two to four messages,back and forth with somebody, you can tell
what the profile is if you kind of know.
(30:40):
And if they're answering in short,one word, two word, or maybe one
sentence long things, they'reprobably going to be on the D side.
Yep.
And so then all we need to dois talk about transformation
and results in one line.
And that's how you respond toyou after I've learned that.
So I'd be very direct to the point.
I would talk about results specifically,and I would focus on the word what.
So for anyone listening and want alittle quick lesson in disc profiling.
(31:05):
The D people, the high dominant CEOtypes, they care about what their
favorite word is, what let's do it.
Let's play a game before I gothrough this, Michael, there's
four words I'm going to give you.
You tell me which inorder from first to last.
Okay.
What, why, who, and how,which was I like what's yeah.
(31:26):
In order of most importance toyou, what, why, who, or how.
Probably who
Michael Whitehouse: would be the first most. (31:33):
undefined
Actually I'd say probably who,
who, why, how,
Sean Malone (31:40):
what, I think.
Who, why, how, what means, okay,so, so what is usually a high D?
Yeah.
Who is usually a high I?
You have a lot of I personality,influencer personality,
because look at your shirt.
I can tell that.
Look at the colors behind you.
I people love colors.
Yep.
I can see that, right?
They use quotations.
They make copy look like it's alive.
A lot of things like so.
(32:01):
So again, you've got alot of high I and then
Michael Whitehouse (32:03):
the other thing when my D comes out, not that I am
high D, but I get high D when someone's
Sean Malone (32:10):
of course, of course, of course, of course, but see the secret
in DM messaging is trying to figureout what somebody's primal filter is.
And then speaking through thatfilter, because then you drop
all the barriers of resistance.
Transcribed And you're actuallyable to report and connect.
And that's what we talk aboutis like, get that connection.
Cause when you get into rapport,it's easy to ask tougher questions.
Michael Whitehouse (32:32):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And this is some, somereally powerful stuff.
And so, you know, I, I, I like this.
This concept and that's why I sellby chat appeal to me in the first
place because it was, it was amore authentic way of connecting.
I, I got a networking becauseI don't like cold calling.
I networking was a better way ofconnecting people than picking up the
phone and just calling them cold and,and it, it worked better and they were
(32:55):
happier and everything was wonderful.
So, You know, so I, I like this,this concept and also it's about if
you have something that you know isvaluable and then that's where a lot
of entrepreneurs also get in trouble.
Like, I don't know if it's valuablebecause I haven't proven it yet.
Cause a lot of people are goinginto entrepreneurship, which is a
whole different conversation that'sbeyond the scope of this podcast.
(33:15):
But yeah, I'd love to talka little bit more about, you
know, onto the networking side.
You talked a lot about like directlyselling to people, but you talk
a little more about networking,how you can use that to both find.
People to engage with and then alsohow you can find partners who can
connect with audiences to engage
Sean Malone (33:33):
with.
Yeah, love that.
Okay, so a couple of use cases.
The first one I'll talk about is ifyou are trying to just find people
that you want to network with, right?
So one of the things that I wouldencourage is if you have a community
or a tribe that you're trying tobuild, example, Facebook group, or
if you're on school, you can build acommunity over there, or, you know,
there's a million of them, right?
So wherever you houseyour kind of community.
(33:56):
One of the easy icebreakermoves that you can start with.
And it's what we did for years.
Was say, Hey, I just builtthis networking group.
It's really bad ass.
It's got these types of people in here.
I think you might be a fit.
Are you interested in joining?
Right.
And it's a very quick one to onlypick out those people that are true
networker folk, because most peoplethat are like, Oh, well, you know,
they're either going to come at it.
(34:16):
Well, I can, I sell to them or I canadd value to the group is usually like
the either or kind of like, so you'relooking for the kind of people that are
saying I could add value to that group.
Yeah, I'll jump in.
Okay, great.
Here's my link.
Let me know when you join.
I'll have my team give you a warm welcome.
Then that happens, right?
You let them in the group, yourteam gives them a warm welcome.
And then you can come back now.
And you can say, Hey, I makeit a point to speak with every
(34:39):
member in my networking group.
To network, here's what's covered onthe call item one, two, and three.
In our case, it's number one.
I want to share what our group's all aboutand what content's allowed to be posted.
Number two, we have this kick assfree referral system that I'll
show you exactly how it executes.
And number three, I got to makesure that you have a system that's
robust, that can consistently andpredictably grow your business.
(35:01):
That's usually what my networkingcalls are, you know, are around.
If there's anything else you wantto add to the agenda, that's great.
Let me know.
And so I've been very crystalclear in my intent and my
purpose through the messages.
Very authentic, veryreal, but very scalable.
Hmm.
Michael Whitehouse (35:18):
I like that.
And, and so, and, and one thing I hearthrough that is, That you open the door.
I assume that you'd havesome sort of offer available.
So you open the door for
Sean Malone (35:29):
them to say, yeah, if you get that far and typically
in the calls, I'll start that way.
I'll be like, look, here's our group.
Like, what are the things thatyou were most interested in?
And I started asking you reallygood questions in my calls.
Why did you want to bein this networking group?
What are you hoping to accomplish?
Do you like to go to events?
Do you like to do this?
Oh, you need to go.
Michael Whitehouse (35:45):
Unless they self identify a need.
You'd never even make an offer.
Correct.
So, so they don't feel likethey're being pitched to and.
If an offer is made, then it would bebecause they identify, you know, yeah, I
don't really have that process in placeand I wish someone could help me with it.
Yeah.
Sean Malone (36:01):
Do you want to talk about it?
Always permission, alwayspermission, permission, permission.
That's how conversationsshould always be driven, right?
I usually start, I startthat part of the call.
So I always start with networking, learnall about them and everything else.
And then I'll show them a group,which is really easy and powerful.
If you have a group, this is how oursworks just so you know, I like to
give the kind of behind the curtain.
So it's, it's one of thosethings where it's like, look.
(36:22):
Michael, I know there's people inhere that can use your services.
Do me a favor.
Here's how our networking system works.
Go through my list of membersand tell me the top five or maybe
top 10 people you want to meet.
Send me the list.
I'll personally introduce them in a threeway message to you and you can start
a conversation with them from there.
That's it.
Free.
No, no, no.
Ask no anything beyond that.
That's what it is.
(36:43):
And then we'll transition to thelast part of that conversation.
And I'll say something like, well,do you have a systematic way of
consistently growing your business?
What is it?
Tell me about it.
How do you grow your company?
And then you start telling me and thenI'll just start asking question after
question and if we can find a gap, I'llbe like, I'm pretty good at solving that.
Do you want to go down that path?
I like that.
Michael Whitehouse (37:03):
I think I may be pulling the transcript from this
episode and going back over thispart because yeah, I have a Facebook
group, but I don't do much with it.
It's kind of like there becauseit hasn't been a major focus.
And part of that is just nothaving a strategy for it.
And you know, there's.
I've, I have learned that less ismore in my business, so I've really
zeroed into, you know, the morethings I get rid of, the better I do.
(37:24):
It's amazing how that works.
It's crazy.
But yeah, as you're talking about it,it's interesting thinking like, oh yeah,
this could really be effective for Youknow, for using that and, and, and, you
know, I love that concept, that justsmall amount of outreach to people in
the group, getting them on a call and,
Sean Malone (37:40):
and they've already had a couple of messages to like, so
the ice breaker for you is, do theywant to jump in your group or not?
And they're already, when they raisetheir hand and they say, yeah, sure.
I'll jump in your group.
Guess what?
They went from lead to engage lead.
They crossed the threshold.
So now you're like, oh, he's engaged.
Like now this could be aneasy conversation because
when they get in your group.
You already have rapportand nurture with them.
(38:01):
So now you can just start punchingreally sharp, a little harder
questions if you wanted to.
But again, I always, if it's networking.
Be true to the ethos ofwhat you're doing for good.
Never for evil.
Don't manipulate.
Don't make the switch.
Don't do all those things.
Right?
Like that's, that's
Michael Whitehouse (38:16):
the idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the key thing is, you know,doing it, doing it the right way.
Yeah.
And so, so you mentioned in thenotes that the networking has done
quite a bit for you personally.
So tell us about, you know,what networking has done for,
Sean Malone (38:30):
for you.
Oh, oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So so actually going back to the secondexample as well, and I'll just kind of
incorporate the whole thing togetheris like networking has really truly
changed the The direction of everybusiness that we've ever gone into.
So the first big networking group, Igot introduced to click funnels in 2016.
And if you know, Russell Brunson,he runs, he built a hundred million
(38:51):
dollars software company in five years.
I happened to invest intoevery product and service.
I've actually spent over a quarter milliondollars with the guy to learn from him.
And, and I got into a networkinggroup that costs 25, 000.
So one of the things I loveabout what you're doing, Michael.
Is low barrier to entry guys.
If you haven't gotten a ticketto this next event, go get it.
It's super, super inexpensive.
(39:12):
It's like the right thing todo right now because they're
going to go up as he gets going.
So right.
But the idea was, is, is I invested, youknow, my wife and I invested, you know, a
whole bunch of money to be in this room.
And that was my first example of liketrue networking at a very high level.
And I, and I went into that roomthinking, Oh man, am I going to get
pitched or am I going to pitch everybody?
You're like, what's going to happen here.
(39:34):
And, and, and that cataclysmic shiftfor me where people are just getting
on stage saying, Here's the onething that works really good for me.
Here's the thing that sucks for me.
What's your advice?
And how do I fix this thing over here?
And I was like, that's awesome.
Like so valuable to listento that conversation.
It wasn't salesy at all.
And what came after was.
(39:54):
I did the same thing and peopleare like, Oh my God, your
thing that you do really good.
Like, I need that.
Can you help me?
And that generated business and change.
And on the other side, the people thatcame that were smarter, intelligent,
and already solved this thing forthemselves, they came to me and they
said, Oh, you need to meet so and so andso and so and do this and this and this.
So networking for me worked kind ofin both ways to not only grow the
(40:14):
business, but also to expand my network.
Cause they say network is net worth.
Network is net worth.
So I know that I can reach out toAlex Ramosi on Voxer right now.
I know I can reach out to MyronGolden on Voxer right now.
Russell Brunson right now, BrendanBurchard right now, because I know
them through my networking groups.
And when you know the rightpeople, like, you know, a guy who
(40:36):
knows a guy, everything gets alot better, faster, and easier.
Because as our CEO, my businesspartner, Chris says, he's like, you can
go if you want to go fast, go alone.
But if you want to go far, go together.
Michael Whitehouse (40:49):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's that is a, ahuge and powerful thing.
And I'm glad I mentioned Chris,I was trying to remember how we
connected and I'm pretty sureit was a cold DM from Chris.
And I'm pretty sure, I remember asking inthat DM, I was like, who am I talking to?
Because I, I assumed I was talkingto, you know, an assistant.
(41:11):
And he's like, nope, you're talking tome, and I'm gonna connect you with Sean,
and we're gonna get into conversation.
So there's, there's thatinitial skepticism about like,
who am I really talking to?
But once I identified, once Iengaged then, then he outflashed
into something that became...
became something very powerful.
But yeah, so I, I like what you'resaying about, you know, by someone once
(41:31):
said Justin Breen said to me that hisstrategy is to pay, pay more and more
money to get into better and better rooms.
Sean Malone (41:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I agree.
But I also, I also feel like there'sa, there's a space for what you're
Michael Whitehouse (41:41):
doing.
Yeah.
Well, when I say the person whoget before you can afford 25, 000,
you've got to get in that first roomwhere you meet those first people.
And what I found is, you know, for obviousreasons, people want to make money.
So a lot of the best people, they'relike, if it's not a million dollars,
it's not worth my attention.
If it can't scale to a million,I'm not going to bother.
And I'm in that space of, Idon't need to scale to a million.
(42:05):
That's, that's not what I'm called to do.
If something leaves that opportunity,it will, but I want to be that first
because currently for a lot of Youknow, that is not a good staircase.
That is really hard to climb.
So I just want to provide that firststep where for a negligible amount of
money, you can get into the space, rubshoulders, and you know, once you're in
(42:26):
there, I'm, I'm optimizing the event toprovide, to make it as easy as possible.
You still got to do the work yourself.
Cause for as little as we're charging,no one's holding your hand individually.
We're putting you in the rightroom with the right people.
Now you've got to actually talkto them and do something with it.
But but yo, the first step isjust to get in the right room.
That that's what I discovered in 2020,when everything went online, I was
(42:47):
able to get into rooms I could neverafforded before, and that let me connect
with people who I never would have beenable to meet before and, and of course,
the other thing is being open to it.
You know, we're having this conversationbecause when I got a cold DM, I
wasn't like, who the hell is this guy?
I was like, huh, who the hell is this guy?
And I was open to like,let's see this conversation.
That's what frustrates meso much with most cold DMs.
(43:09):
I'm like, I'm happy to talk to you.
Let's network.
How can we work together?
And they're like, I am actually aVA and I cannot talk to you at all.
I can only send you to the sales page.
Like, I'm willing to workwith you and I can't even talk
Sean Malone (43:23):
to you.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah, I, I agree.
I think again, it's, it's, Leavinghumanization in the process, I think is,
is very, very important and somethingthat we'll always hold as a dear,
true value, like close to our hearts.
Right.
The other thing I just wanted tojust double back again on that last
other question you asked me is like,how could this work for networking?
(43:45):
Right.
Say, for example you have a provenproduct, proven path over here.
Maybe you're selling some sortof like training for being an
electrical contractor as an example.
Okay.
Yep.
Let's say you want to grow your business.
And you don't want to do the outreachor you don't want to do this, but
you do want to do like joint venturesor partnerships with other people.
Well, what you can do through a mediumlike email or DM or text or SMS, whatever
(44:10):
is you can reach out to a plumber, right?
And you can say, Hey, Mr.
Plumber, we serve the same clients.
I'm electrical, you're plumbing.
Okay.
And I want to email your list.
Would you like to email mylist for plumbing services?
And all of a sudden thatgenerates now this really awesome
JV networking opportunity.
(44:31):
And the thing that we talked aboutbefore this call is interesting.
Let's say the electrical contractorhas a bigger list than the plumber.
Okay.
Yep.
So what is the electrician guideor the electric guy to come back?
He says, look, I recognize theystart talking and plumber says,
well, my list is this big electriciansays, my list is this big.
He said, okay, cool.
Well, look, my list is a lot bigger.
Mine's a hundred thousand.
Yours is only 10, 000,but here's what I'll do.
(44:53):
I'm going to email a segment of mylist and you email your full list.
So it's even, and thenwe'll see the exchange.
Does that sound like something you can do?
And that becomes an easy way touse what we call, you've heard
of OPM, other people's money.
Have you heard of OPA, whichis other people's audiences?
This is one of the fastest trendsof how to grow strategically
(45:14):
your business very, very rapidly.
So that process we've executedthrough DMS over and over and over
and over again, works really well.
We've done a lot.
That's how I got in frontof 7, 000 restaurant owners.
Michael Whitehouse (45:27):
I love that you said that with, with cause you know,
we think of that with coaches, wethink about the course creators.
I don't think most peoplethink about that with.
plumbers, electrical contractors,realtors, you know, those kinds of people.
And realize like anyone with an email listcan do this and everyone should have an
email list because you should be capturingyour audience so you can continue
to serve them and engage with them.
(45:47):
So
Sean Malone (45:48):
I love that the real estate examples is tremendous, right?
So if you're, if you'rea realtor, guess what?
All those homes need electrical, allthose homes need plumbing, all those
homes need pool maintenance, all thosehomes need contractors for their garden.
What's to stop you as a realtor to goout to a contractor that has a bunch of
clients where they do in your neighborhoodof the houses you want to sell.
(46:09):
They're doing all the landscaping.
What if you went to that guy andyou're like, look, let's cross promote.
I want to sell houses in your neighborhoodand you want to do more stuff over here.
This is the other neighbor I had.
Who's going to say no to that deal.
That's awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (46:21):
And it costs nothing and it serves because you know, why do
you stay on your realtor's email list?
Do you have to buy the house?
Not 'cause they're givingyou market updates.
Yeah.
I bought my house three years ago.
I don't need market updates.
I own the house, I'm done,I'm out of the market.
But if they're gonna say, Hey,here's a great electrician that,
that I trust, who's a good person?
So if you need one, here he is.
Or, you know, contractor of theweek here, here's, here's John.
(46:45):
He's a great electric contractor.
Sean Malone (46:47):
That's a slam dunk to grow a business in a kind
of, I guess, grassroots fashion.
Michael Whitehouse (46:52):
Yep.
Right.
And it provides value.
It's value all the way around,which is, which is huge.
Sean Malone (46:57):
I'm the realtor in the area.
I just found the besthouse cleaner of all times.
Are you interested?
Interesting.
Right.
So
Michael Whitehouse (47:05):
yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a really, really greatconcept and taking it beyond the
space we think or that I think ofit in, into all these other spaces.
So this is why I love podcasts.
I get to meet, I get tolearn so much from my guests.
But all good things must endand there's no timer running.
I think we're like threehours into this podcast.
So
Sean Malone (47:21):
I've enjoyed dude, you're, you're awesome.
I enjoy that a lot of you, man.
If
Michael Whitehouse (47:25):
people want to connect with you how could they learn
more about you and flow chat and all the
Sean Malone (47:29):
rest?
Yeah.
So if you want to learn more aboutflow chat, just go to flow chat.
com.
F L O W C H a t.
com.
Flow chat.
com.
That's one way.
Otherwise just hit me up in the DMs.
I'll be there.
That's where I live.
Awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (47:43):
I imagine.
So very good.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
It's been great talking to
Sean Malone (47:46):
you.
You too, Michael.
Thanks so much.
And again, I just, I want to say frombottom of my heart, dude, I'm really
grateful that you're putting the vibesout that you put out in the world.
And I think the service you'reproviding is serving a blue ocean.
And I think you have theright purple offer from the
red ocean to the blue ocean.
And I think it's going to crush for you.
And I'm excited to continue helpingmove the, move the train forward.
(48:07):
So thanks for doing what you do.
Thank you.
Michael Whitehouse (48:11):
Thank you for joining us for the guy who knows the guy podcast.
I'm Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows the guy.
And I hope you'll join us in Decemberfor the 12th and the 14th for JV connect.
Go to guy who knows a guy.
com for more details.
Now, if it's after December, 2023,and you're listening to this, it's
okay, because we're going to bedoing this event every quarter
to go to guy who knows a guy.
(48:32):
com, see what's new, see what's happening.
And of course, check the show notes,learn about our guests and how
you just get in touch with them.
Check out our next episode formore great training, information,
and networking tips from MichaelWhitehouse, the guy who knows a guy.
Welcome back to the guy who knows a guy podcast.
We're so excited to be back with you.
And this season we are countingdown to J V connect the first of its
kind, December 12th to 14th, 2023.
This is going to be an incrediblededicated networking event, and you
are going to want to be part of it.
And this podcast here to helpprepare you to get the most
out of this incredible event.
(00:21):
I'm Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows a guy.
And over the next few weeks, you're goingto get to hear from some of the best
people in the industry about networking.
As well as some solo training from me.
So be sure to join us on December12th to 14th for JB Connect.
And now, let's get to the interview.
Welcome back to the guywho knows a guy podcast.
The guy we are meeting todayis Sean Malone of flow chat.
(00:45):
Sean is the CMO co founder offlow chat and comes with over two
decades of studying communication,specifically sales and the lost art of.
prospecting.
He and his teams have successfullygrown more than a, more than a
handful of seven figure businessesand sold a few and have guided four
organizations into the eight figures.
He has personally closed over130 million in his career.
(01:08):
He stays relentlessly focused onsolving the revenue problem for
business owners so they can experiencethe growth and success they deserve.
And he is a loving hubby, cat dad,disc golfer, and sell by chat expert.
So welcome to the show, Sean.
Sean Malone (01:22):
Hey, Michael.
I just want to say, man, what you do,what you stand for is true to my heart.
And I think we hold some ofthe same values very dearly.
So I just appreciate what you do.
And I'm really grateful andhonored to be here on your show.
Michael Whitehouse (01:33):
Great.
Yes.
So I'm excited to have you on here.
As we were talking before we startedabout flow chat, you know, as I've
talked about in my, my blog andemails and whatnot, I talked about
the five corruptors of networking.
And one of them is the automatorand the automator is wants to make
things faster, more efficient and.
If it makes things less human,you know, oops, whatever.
(01:54):
What do we need humans for anyway?
And, you know, like, like the, the programI encountered that scrapes the data out
of a networking event and then encouragesyou to basically pitch everyone who was
there, which is the wrong way to do it.
So I'd love to kick that off to tell uswhy you're not one of the corruptors.
Sean Malone (02:11):
Well first and foremost it comes down to values, you know, like,
and, and I think what automation, whatAI, like, Regardless of all this like
AI automation, very powerful toolswhen used for good, never for evil.
I'm a guy that's alwaysfor good, never for evil.
And so automation is the thingthat everybody's craving.
Hey, I just want to press abutton, let it set up and run.
(02:32):
And my business magically grows.
Unfortunately, that's a mythand a pipe dream that doesn't
usually ever happen, right?
Cause there's always additional workthat needs to go into that, whether it
be optimized or anything else, whatever.
So the idea of.
Communication and the ideaof connection, connection.
There's a study I just watcheddiary of CEO, wonderful
podcast, a video cast they have.
There's a gentleman talkingabout like human connection is
(02:54):
the thing that's being lost.
Human connection, real human,authentic, genuine connection is
the thing that's going to keep ushuman and drive everything forward.
And so when we take that out of anymarketing or selling process, and
we just automate the whole thing,it becomes mindless, robotic.
unfriendly, doesn't feel good, ugly, icky,all the words that you can think of that
(03:19):
like kind of gets you into that boat.
So when we created a the tool thatwe created, it was designed from
a sales brain mentality versusa marketing brain mentality.
Quick definitions there.
So everyone's veryfamiliar and I love both.
Okay.
So, but marketing brain is theguy that says, Hey, look at me.
I'm doing this cool thing.
Come this way.
(03:39):
And they get somebody to open uptheir eyes, the attention side
and a little bit of exposure.
And then once you go down thepathway, if it turns into automation
right after that, it feels terribleas a prospect of somebody who's
buying or investing into the thing.
And so, so marketers aregreat at getting attention.
But in my opinion, they kindof lack the follow through.
(04:01):
And then the sales brain guywhere, where we came from, I've
been in sales for 25 years.
It's all I've ever done andknown is this idea of like, what
does it take to close a deal?
And let's start there and then reverseengineer the whole conversation, make
sure as authentic as possible andtry to template it, but we know it's
going to be a little bit off script.
It's not going to be exact, right?
(04:21):
So if we knew that, and then we just havein front, like the little marketing piece,
now we have a complete system, right?
And it's not automated becausethe way that we configured
the system that we built.
Is within compliance of the 11 socialsthat we play on, and it is a human to
human system executed by clicking a buttonactually sending a message instead of
(04:42):
just hitting an automation button andfiring a bunch of messages of people.
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (04:46):
Yeah, and that's a huge, huge difference.
I think the one key difference too,that I see is the way you talk about it.
So that, that's what bothered me withthe, the, the one that inspired the
automator as the corruptor is theway they talked about it was, he said
that this person found 400 prospectsin in these networking chat logs.
(05:07):
I'm like, they're not prospects.
It's a networking event.
No one's a prospect, a networking event.
That's not why they're there.
No one goes networking out to buyversus that you're, you're starting
by saying, you know, this is aboutconnections, about facilitating
communication, facilitating conversation.
And the user.
Is going to hear your use case andthen say, I want to do your use case.
So if you're saying the use caseis 400 prospects, I would say,
(05:29):
ah, prospects slam into the CRM,send out some sales letters and.
Bam.
And even if that's not whatit's meant for, the marketing
is telling them to do that.
Whereas you're saying,create conversations, create
connections and, and, Well,
Sean Malone (05:44):
and I agree.
I like, I'll just add to that.
It's like people buy from people, right?
Unless, and I guess it kind ofreally depends on price point too.
So depending on what you'reoffering, lower ticket.
Can usually have a little bit or moreautomation and less personal touch.
When you get to kind of likethe higher ticket stuff,
people are buying for people.
They don't buy from a paid ad.
They don't buy from a website.
(06:04):
They got to go talk tosomebody at some point.
Right.
And so here's wherethe disconnect happens.
If you set up all that automationand it goes boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, calls got booked.
And then you jump on the call andyou have no idea about this prospect.
You don't understand whatthey're going through.
You haven't walked in their moccasins.
You haven't understood their story.
And they think they were talking to you.
Right.
That sales process from that initialcall to when the deal actually gets
(06:27):
closed is going to be extended.
And so by having a human to humanconnection and really actually building
know, like, and trust, nurture,rapport, all the things that need
to be in a selling process, right?
This gives you that, that, that thecohesive ability to just get on the
phone and really truly have like alevel of rapport where you can ask
deeper questions and you can get to the.
(06:50):
Closed deal faster, right?
Because everything in this world,if you're trying to build a business
is about sales velocity, you have tohave sales velocity, which is turnover
and new sales coming into a business.
But that sales process flow experiencethat both parties go through you as the
provider, them as the prospect or client,or even a person you're just networking.
To get, to figure out a need,if there even is one, right?
(07:12):
I love networking because it'sa very casual conversation.
It doesn't have to be pushy.
It shouldn't feel like you're pressuredor, Oh my gosh, Sean, what do I say?
What, how do I start a network?
Oh my gosh, I need to come over to you,Michael, like teach me how to network.
It's like, no, no, no, no, just go.
What would you say to your buddyplaying around a disc golf?
What would you say overlike, just connect?
Like that, that piece.
(07:34):
Is what I think is getting lost intranslation with all the rapid development
and tech and AI and all this otherstuff, but there are some people that
are kind of like the rock in the riverthat are saying, no, no, no, this still
needs to be part of the whole process.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
Michael Whitehouse (07:47):
I, I found this is the more we talked about about flow chat.
Yeah.
Think about the way I use email.
So, you know, when I started using emails,I was networking with 20 people a week.
So I was adding 80 people aweek to a month of my network.
I couldn't follow up with 80 people.
I can remember 80 people.
But what I could do is create somegood, authentic, personal content.
You know, not pitchy stuff, but sharing mystories and lessons and stuff that I want
(08:11):
to share with everyone I networked with.
And then I just invited everyoneinto my email community.
They got that content.
If something resonated with them,they'd self identify and be like,
Hey, Michael, let's talk again.
And maybe I remember them in detail.
Maybe I don't, but it's authenticbecause they know it's an email list.
So they, they don'texpect me to know them.
They know this is a one waycommunication, but it still
kept us in touch and connected.
(08:33):
And so, so Joe, I'm always looking forways to network personally, but then make
up for the fact that my mind is a steelsieve and everything falls out of it.
And, and, you know, I, I'm notthe guy who's going to send
thank you cards to everyone.
I can't keep track of all thatstuff, but I really do want
to provide value to people.
I want to stay connected with them.
So when I've got.
3200 Facebook friends or whateverit is you know, we were talking
(08:55):
about this before that I'mrunning JV connect coming up.
It's a very affordable event andno brainer event to buy a ticket.
But if you don't know about it,you're not going to buy a ticket.
You're going to miss out.
I can post on Facebook all day long.
If the algorithm says you don't seemy posts, you don't see my posts.
So how do I make surepeople don't miss out?
And, and that's something andactually that way we can talk a
little bit about that use case of,you know, as I was asking you, if.
(09:21):
If I, you know, can I just use thisto keep track of who I messaged?
You know, I, if I'm messaging a thousandpeople, because I honestly think
they're gonna benefit from this, Ican't remember who I messaged and I'm
going back through and I click on it.
Now I got a message there.
I click on this.
Now I've already gotta messageit, and so I'm missing everyone.
And so that was kinda the first use caseI saw is this system can keep track of
(09:41):
this person got a message, this persondidn't get a message, this person replied
and make it a, you know, a useful platforminstead of just a darts at the wall.
hoping some hit the board and, youknow, and not missing the people I
need to miss or need to need to reach.
So yeah, talk a little bit about how it.
Sean Malone (09:58):
I think I love that.
And thank you for picking up on that.
Cause that's, that's exactlywhat it's for, right?
Like, so, so, so thesoftware is called flow chat.
You can go to flow chat.
com, check it out.
Right.
So that's cool.
But I didn't think that's wherethis, we're going to talk about
networking, this great flow chatdoes four things really, really well.
Number one, it allows you tofind those hyper targeted.
Opportunities to connectwith people, right?
(10:21):
Not just prospects, somepeople call them prospects.
Some people call them leads, right?
I'll, I'll, I'll use theterm like Alex Ramos.
He just put it in his new book,a hundred million dollar leads.
He says the difference between a leadand an engaged lead is the engaged lead
is the person kind of raising theirhand and swimming in your direction.
Right?
So typically people say,I hate outbound, Sean.
I just want to do inbound.
(10:41):
Okay.
Well, let's talk about thedefinition of inbound outbound.
And I'll get back to the flow chatin the four things they do well.
So, so, so inbound is created afterthe creator does some piece of outbound
something in your case, Michael, you'reputting a piece of content out on social.
Somebody sees that and thenthey come in your direction.
How did that start?
You put the piece ofcontent outbound first.
(11:02):
So everything we're doingis actually outbound.
There's inbound is only creatorgenerated by an outbound action.
And so that's, that's where contentnow, most people are like, Oh,
when they hear that definition,like, okay, that makes sense.
Well, how do I start a DM conversation?
Is the next big thing?
Like they get, Oh, like, what do I say?
And that is the piece where most peoplekind of get stuck because a lot of
(11:26):
people have been teaching copywriting.
Here's website copywriting.
Here's email copywriting.
Here's all this type of copyright.
DM message.
Copywriting is significantlydifferent than almost all types
of copywriting that is out there.
So you need a little bit ofknowledge in order to win.
So here's a pro tip for anybodythat does not sound like that guy.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
So pro tip, if you are wanting to use DMSfor your business, to grow your business,
(11:50):
to test ideas, to grow JV partnerships,to get downloads on a podcast, YouTube,
whatever, start with a compliment.
Right.
I've studied this in almost400, 000 VM conversations.
The one that gets the mostengagement is a compliment.
So just give somebody a genuinecompliment on what they're trying
to do or what they're doing fromthe, based on their profile.
(12:11):
Very, very easy way to do it.
It's a very non nonchalant, justcasual way to get in conversation.
Okay.
Backing up to what is supposed to be
Michael Whitehouse (12:20):
a genuine compliment because we all get the, I love what you're
doing with your business and you can tellthat's cut and paste, it needs to be.
You know, I love what you'redoing with your business.
Your, your work with DMS isa fascinating take on it.
So that you actually think that,
Sean Malone (12:37):
or it's like, or I'd come to your profile and it'd be
like the spin that you're putting onnetworking is truly inspirational.
Michael, thank you for beingout in the world and doing that.
You're going to be like, well, that'sa different type of compliment is right
down your niche, right down your alley.
And so it takes four seconds tofigure that out for somebody, right?
Yep.
And if you get hyper notched in yourbusiness, and most people are in that
bucket, like you can use a template andjust tweak it from a couple of words
(13:00):
here and there to make it that way.
Right.
So it can be authentic andyou can run it at scale.
So I'm sharing, I'm just shouting from themountaintops, like you can do it at scale.
So cause that's what everybody wants.
Right.
So, okay.
So Floatzad does four things really well.
Number one, helps you to findthose hyper targeted leads.
As an example, you could go to any postyou've made going outbound, and in one
(13:21):
click, collect all the likes, collectall the commenters from that post
you've made, put them into this Kanbanpipeline type system that manages them
along each stage of that conversation.
Like, hey, did I send him a first message?
Hey, did I ask him this question?
Did I invite them to my call?
Whatever the stages are that you want.
So that's the first thing it does.
It allows you to hyper target leads.
Secondly it facilitates sending messages.
(13:42):
So we don't have anyautomation in the system.
We do manually just set up a templatedconversation one sided, but then
it's just a simple click a button.
And it copies your clipboard, andthen you paste a message, and then you
move the card along in the process ofDMing of where you want them to be.
Okay, so it tracks everything.
That's the thing.
It also helps you to qualify.
(14:03):
So, finds the leads, facilitatesthe message, Qualitate, I guess
qualifying should come beforefacilitating messages in, in theory.
But we have a step by step processthat you can follow to take it from
like suspect to qualified opportunity.
And then we'll facilitate message sending.
And then the last thing it doesreally well is reporting on metrics.
(14:24):
Those are the four things that,that our software does well.
Yep.
Michael Whitehouse (14:27):
Yeah, so, so I like that it's, it's so, so human.
And it's not just automating,blasting stuff out.
Now, obviously you, you coulduse it with an assistant.
You could use it with a team andwhatnot, but it can also facilitate
using it for yourself to just makesure you're reaching the right people.
And you don't miss their, their messageback and, and all that kind of stuff.
No, could this be used if someonenow, obviously if somebody
(14:50):
says, how should I network?
I would say, well, I recommendcoming to JV connect.
You'll meet a bunch of people, but ifsomebody wanted network by say, going
on LinkedIn or they're not working fora job, let's say Which they probably
didn't slow chat for that, but let'ssay they were or they're they're
trying to to break into an industry.
Could this be used instead of for a salesprocess for a networking network building
Sean Malone (15:09):
process?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think a couple of greatexamples are recruiting, right?
So like if you're a recruiter, that'sanother really great use cases.
Let's say you're a recruiterfor a fast food restaurant.
I just did a presentation to 7,000 restaurants about this topic.
And it's, it's how do you use techto actually recruit in a way that's
systematic and automatic and not haveto pay like one of those recruiting
(15:30):
agencies, millions of dollars when youget some high ticket person that you hire.
So same thing, right?
So you just set up the messaging outboundon, and it's a different experience.
If you're recruiting, how doyou usually get recruited?
You go to zip recruiter,you go to ladders.
com or whatever, and you look, and thenyou, you apply because you want the job.
And then it's like thatstuffy bad process.
But what if.
(15:51):
On the flip side, that sameexperience could be Michael, man,
you're a, you're a networking pro.
Our business right now is strugglingin the HR world and we need somebody
to come and help with networking.
Would you be up for a quick 15minute call just to see if your
skillset fits what we're looking for?
And all of a sudden now Michael'slike, Whoa, that's right up my alley.
(16:11):
You know, like, and of courseyou're going to jump on that call.
So you're going to get a higherprobability of calls booked
or applications filled out.
You need to jump on the call 15 minutes.
We do have a, you know, like a.
We make sure that our values arealigned and then, okay, great.
Hey, next step is to fillout this application.
Could you do that?
Here's the link.
And I do it on a zoom call.
Now it's a personal conversationfor me to recruit Michael into
my company as a recruiter, right?
(16:32):
So that's, that's just a kind of likea use case that it could be used for.
If you're looking for jobs, same thing.
You can go to LinkedIn.
Again, our platform workson 13 pro platforms.
Doesn't matter where you're at.
LinkedIn say you have sales navigator.
You could pop open your navigatorand run a filter to say, I want all
hiring managers at this type of niche.
It'll pull you a list.
(16:52):
You can click one thing, put that wholelist right into a pipeline and be like,
I'm interested in your be interested.
Obviously I'm interested inlearning more about your company.
I'm thinking aboutapplying at a job there.
Can you talk to me?
And you're reaching out now tothat person that those are the,
that's who hires you, right?
Employers are always lookingfor those people that are like.
(17:13):
Putting activity inand showing the energy.
It's like, show me, don'ttell me kind of a thing.
That's where I feel likeFlowchat could just be superior.
Michael Whitehouse (17:21):
I think what's so powerful about that, too, is that
you can be more personal becausethe technology gets out of the way
or get the work out of the way.
So a lot of recruiters there.
Yeah, it's
Sean Malone (17:32):
like putting the power of less clicks at your
fingertips, putting the power ofAI assistance generated assistance
with messaging at your fingertips.
But don't do it for you, right?
Like that's the idea.
Well, you
Michael Whitehouse (17:44):
know, I get those messages sometimes.
I got a message on LinkedIn the other dayand it said you know, I love your profile.
And are you open to a,to a new opportunity?
And basically you want a job.
And, and my reply was, youobviously did not look at my profile
because nothing about my profilelines with what you just said.
But if you don't have proper automation,then you use blunt automation and you
(18:07):
hire a VA in the Philippines to just.
You know, here's the specs,blast them all with this message
and it's, it's brute force.
It's, you know, send out 10, 000 and hope10 reply and, and that's how it works.
Versus if you have the righttechnology, you don't need to
hire the VA in the Philippines.
You can do it yourselfbecause it's just click.
I'm looking at the next person.
(18:27):
Yeah.
All right.
Is this the right person?
Yes, they are.
Let me tweak this message.
So it's personal.
Them send click andlook at the next person.
So you, the computer becomesyour assistant and it's actually.
You could that's the other thing I'vefound is there's nothing more awkward
than messaging someone and getting andreaching their VA on LinkedIn, but their
VA doesn't know you're a friend of theirs.
(18:49):
So they talk to you like the recruiterand you know, and I've, I've had like,
could I speak to the real Lois, please?
It's, it's like, you know, you know,talking to Sybil that, you know, the
multiple personality or like, okay,which Sybil am I talking to now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is this, is this the real Sybil?
Or is this Juan?
So, so like, so it's interestingbecause the technology allows
(19:12):
you to be used correctly.
I mean, obviously you could use this wrongand, and hire a bunch of people in the
Philippines and blast out a bunch of spam.
But used correctly, it allows you tobe more personally engaged because
you don't need to be spending allthe time searching through lists and
prospecting and And, and digging so youcan spend more time sending messages
(19:35):
and replying to messages and havingconversations and engaging, which seems
Sean Malone (19:39):
huge.
Yeah, I 100 percent agree.
You're absolutely right.
And even just to add to that, ifyou guys know who David Ogilvie
is, he's one of the greatest.
He's like one of the foundingforefathers of copywriting, right?
And what he says is 80 percentof your first dollar spent in
marketing is blown on your headline.
So if we translate, like translatethat into like the DM environment
(20:02):
and messaging somebody outbound forthe first message, we got to spend 80
percent of our time making sure thatfirst message hits, we got to spend.
And 80 percent of our time stayingfocused on making sure the first
message is a genuine, authentic, andreal, and in the right lane, hitting
the niche, saying the right thing.
Because when you do that correctly,right people, right message, big results.
(20:24):
That's it.
There's no other formula.
Michael Whitehouse (20:26):
Well, and this also, you know, one of the things I talk about
is, is this ninja networking rubric.
And there's five levels networking.
The first level is network prospecting,which is what you're talking about.
It's that authentic conversation.
Looking for a problem someone hasand if it's solved by your service,
gently asking for permissionto discuss your, your offer.
And because, you know, who's notgoing to respond well to the, to the
(20:48):
question, would you like help with that?
And, and, and this, this does sort ofthat, that same thing that it's about.
I actually, it's interesting because,you know, we're, we're a Washington
spam and all your email spam andDM spam and, and just meaningless
messages that don't apply to us at all.
We get them like, whyam I even getting this?
You know, I got a message being like,I, you know, I, I help women in their
(21:11):
fifties to find more film into work.
And I'm like, good for you.
I haven't got anything that misaligned,but almost so, but if people had
the right tools, they could, and ofcourse they, they do that because
they don't know any better way.
So they send out, they shotgun it,but with tools like yours, it lets
them be more authentic and letsthem be, and actually reminded.
(21:32):
But when I first got into coachingin 2020, the first thing I did
was a sell by chat strategy.
Yep.
But without any tools,it was I'd make posts.
I'd respond to the comments.
And, and I, I learned oneof talking more strategies.
I
Sean Malone (21:45):
love talking.
Yeah.
Dear friend and his wife, Kiri Marie.
I've been on there.
I was on their leadershipcouncil for a while.
Yeah.
Michael Whitehouse (21:52):
And so that's actually what, what gave me enough
confidence to say, I think I shouldgo into the coaching industry.
I did not actually have the chops todeliver the coaching I was selling
with this very powerful tool.
And so I ended up stopping, stoppingusing it, but yeah, I made 10.
Sean Malone (22:05):
What year was that when you were doing that?
2020.
120.
Okay.
Three years ago.
Yeah.
Right at the
Michael Whitehouse (22:10):
start of the pandemic.
And, and since then I have, you know,become certified and interviewed
200 people and learned a fewthings a few things over that time.
But, but yeah, I think aboutthe strategy was so powerful
because it was so authentic.
It was basically asking people questionsabout what are you trying to do?
Where are you now?
Where are you stuck?
Where do you want to be?
(22:31):
Would you like help with that?
And they were like, yeah, what's next?
And they just walkeddown the path with me.
And I'm thinking about what I wasdoing then, if that was augmented by
a technology that would keep track ofit, you know, I was using a spreadsheet
and, and, you know, last date, andit wasn't, I was a small scale.
I I'd get, you know, fourcomments when I made a post.
So it wasn't massive, but if I, youknow, technology support and I could
(22:56):
see this being really game changing.
There's so many people out there.
They don't want to be cold DMing.
They don't want to be pitching.
They, they want to help.
They have something that actuallyhelps people, but they need a
way to identify who has the need,who's going to raise their hand,
and then how do I draw them in?
And, and so many people, especially peoplein the helping people space, you know,
(23:19):
the holistic space, the mindset space,the spiritual space, they don't want to,
their sales strategy is one that grabsone by the head and, oh man, they want to.
And it seems like this could, this couldreally help them to, to be more authentic
Sean Malone (23:33):
like that.
Yeah.
So I, and I just, I always thinkthrough the lens of like DM
copy, cause that's what I've beenspecializing in for a long time.
And it's so you know, like a firstmessage for somebody in that space.
If you're listening right now, this mightbe a good one is like, Hey Michael, or
I wouldn't even pro tip, never startyour first DM with someone's Hey name.
Because that's what everybody does.
(23:54):
You always want to be different.
So put that person's name at the endof the first sentence after a comma.
That's the pro tip of the world, right?
So, so I would come up to, you know, say,Michael, you're in the mindset space.
One of the first messages Imight send in that case is, Looks
like our energy aligns, Michael.
I'm curious how do you, how doyou, what's your morning routine?
(24:15):
Simple question, right?
Compliment.
Simple question.
That's an easy way to get intoa great conversation about some,
Oh, why'd you choose that one?
Who do you follow?
Like what, all these things.
And then we start transitioning.
So like there's four hinge points inevery DM conversation, and I don't
care if it's for networking, if it'sfor sales, it's for whatever, right.
And the four hinge pointsreally start with the first
thing is getting engagement.
(24:36):
Right.
Do not try to sell fromyour first message.
Everybody tries to dothat and they do it wrong.
Those are the spammy, salesy,the ones that feel like shit
that you don't want to get.
The ones I get a million times a day.
The ones you get a million times a day.
You know, instantly like,nope, block that guy.
Get him out of here.
But right.
So the first thing is we alwayssay focus on is getting engagement.
The second thing we need to do ishave a series of one, two, maybe
(24:59):
three questions that transitionsthem from that engagement.
Into what I call opening the windows.
So you can invite them permissionbased to the next step.
So it goes and get engagementand it goes transition.
So some of the questions we use inour world, a little bit different than
probably what you're in, but it's like.
What's the biggest marketing challengeyou're working on conquering right now?
Question one, they say this great.
(25:22):
What have you tried to do tosolve that second question?
Third, what would it mean foryou to solve this forever?
How much does it cost youto not solve this problem?
Those are great, easy questions thatyou can ask, because then that'll just
completely wrench that conversation from.
Initial message transition into, oh mygosh, you should, you should see our tech.
Here's that window open invite.
(25:43):
And my invite, is it cool if I send youa quick video or are you, is it, would
it be better to just hop on a call?
I mean, it's very casual, great wayto go to a, sending a tenant to a
website or getting call booked or.
And then say yes.
And then the next step would be like, youknow, drop the link in the clear future.
Like, Hey, watch this tomorrow.
And we'll keep talking or whatever.
So,
Michael Whitehouse (26:01):
so I'm interested in your opinion is cause I'll, I'll
sometimes get these and, and, you know,I can see sell by chat when I'm in it.
And yeah, so someone willsend me that kind of message.
And so I'll point blank, askthem, what are you selling me?
And often the reply I get is,Oh, I'm not selling you anything.
I just want to get to know you.
(26:21):
And to my mind, I'mhighly suspect of this.
Of course, if they then try to make anykind of offer, we're done because as
soon as you lie to me, our conversationsover and if you just box yourself in
by saying, I'm not selling anything so,
Sean Malone (26:38):
so that answer is, is not a pro answer.
I mean, that's the big difference, right?
And you can tell when there's someonethat's done it for a while and
there's someone that hasn't, right?
And so that's, that's one of the reasonswhy we offer 16 live sessions per month.
Every month for our users to show upand make sure they say things right.
And so the idea is if, ifsomeone says to me, well, are
(26:58):
you trying to sell me something?
I'd be like, I don't know.
Cause I don't know if I can eventell you anything yet, because I
don't know if you have the challengesor struggles that I solve, but I
do want to learn more about you.
Good answer.
I like that.
Very casual, very right to the point.
Like, cause I don't know if youhave the problem I solve and
everybody needs to remember, noteverybody has the problem you solve.
Michael Whitehouse (27:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Oh.
Yes, so much.
Yes.
Well, and what I like about that as a, asa networker is if somebody reaches out to
me and, you know, cold approaches me and,and I say, you know, what are you selling?
And you say something like that, thenI'm like, that's someone I can network
with because that's someone who I know isgoing to have respectful conversations.
If I refer them to someone, it'ssomeone who I, I'm curious to learn
(27:43):
what you do, because you might knowsomeone I might be able to get with.
Refer, you know, affiliatecommission, referring you to someone.
I might be able to help someoneout, referring you to someone.
But also if you're, you know, ifyou don't just panic and say, Oh
my God, I'm not selling anything.
Then we can have an honest conversation.
And, and, you know, sometimesI'll just let you roll.
I'm like, okay, cool.
(28:04):
Run your process.
Let's see it.
Yeah.
Send your questions.
Because again, you can see ifyou understand the process,
you know, what's coming next.
So,
Sean Malone (28:11):
but also there is a point in that conversation where you shift
from analytical to emotionally involved.
That's the big difference.
And I think that's where people really,they get it right when they do it, right.
And it works a hundredout of a hundred times.
It's so beautiful because you're,you're so smart, Michael, you
know so much about marketing andyou're so good at networking.
Like, dude, I could shower you withaccolades all day because it's real.
(28:33):
Right.
And if you haven't worked withMichael, go work with him right now,
if you're listening to me, but, andsaying all of this, You always start
from that analytical place, right?
You're the logical startof that conversation.
You're like, Oh, I seeright through this strategy.
It's horseshit, or it's good, orwhatever you're thinking as you're
going through, sorry for cussing.
I just get emotional.
(28:54):
And, and,
Michael Whitehouse (28:54):
and right now campus on CBS.
Sean Malone (28:56):
Right.
There you go.
So then at some point you'relike, okay, let it ride.
Like they passed your logicaltest in your flow, right?
In your journey.
Cause every buyer, every prospecthas a different journey, right?
You got to remember that too.
But once we pass that litmus test inyour conversational flow, now they start
asking you if they're asking you theright and good questions, you shift.
(29:18):
from logical to emotional and you realize,Oh, I do have that problem, my business.
And now you're, as soon as you realizethat the conversational flow switches,
because now you're really asking ifthey can help you solve the thing
you're actually struggling with.
That leads to a call in 90 percentof the time it leads to a sale.
Michael Whitehouse (29:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I definitely, I saw that in it, butyeah, I think that's the powerful thing.
And you always want to pay attention.
A lot of process willtell you how to sell them.
They'll tell you what they want, howthey want to be talked to and listen.
So if somebody point blank, you know,when my high D comes out and I say,
you know, are you trying to sell meor what are you trying to sell me?
The, the answer should either be,well, what I have is this or something
(29:59):
like you said, might maybe nothing.
I don't even know right now because Idon't know if you have the problem that
we solve, but I'd like to explore that.
Then yeah, then at that point,my response would be all right.
Cool.
You've been honest.
I know the context of this conversation.
Take it away.
You're in charge.
You know, Lead the parade.
Let's see
Sean Malone (30:19):
where we go.
And I love that you bring upyour, you know, Hydenus and the
personality profile and stuff.
Because I studied extended disc.
I used to teach it, right?
And so I still teach it.
Is this idea of like, if I recognize, andthat's the beauty of communication to DMs,
is you can, in about two to four messages,back and forth with somebody, you can tell
what the profile is if you kind of know.
(30:40):
And if they're answering in short,one word, two word, or maybe one
sentence long things, they'reprobably going to be on the D side.
Yep.
And so then all we need to dois talk about transformation
and results in one line.
And that's how you respond toyou after I've learned that.
So I'd be very direct to the point.
I would talk about results specifically,and I would focus on the word what.
So for anyone listening and want alittle quick lesson in disc profiling.
(31:05):
The D people, the high dominant CEOtypes, they care about what their
favorite word is, what let's do it.
Let's play a game before I gothrough this, Michael, there's
four words I'm going to give you.
You tell me which inorder from first to last.
Okay.
What, why, who, and how,which was I like what's yeah.
(31:26):
In order of most importance toyou, what, why, who, or how.
Probably who
Michael Whitehouse: would be the first most. (31:33):
undefined
Actually I'd say probably who,
who, why, how,
Sean Malone (31:40):
what, I think.
Who, why, how, what means, okay,so, so what is usually a high D?
Yeah.
Who is usually a high I?
You have a lot of I personality,influencer personality,
because look at your shirt.
I can tell that.
Look at the colors behind you.
I people love colors.
Yep.
I can see that, right?
They use quotations.
They make copy look like it's alive.
A lot of things like so.
(32:01):
So again, you've got alot of high I and then
Michael Whitehouse (32:03):
the other thing when my D comes out, not that I am
high D, but I get high D when someone's
Sean Malone (32:10):
of course, of course, of course, of course, but see the secret
in DM messaging is trying to figureout what somebody's primal filter is.
And then speaking through thatfilter, because then you drop
all the barriers of resistance.
Transcribed And you're actuallyable to report and connect.
And that's what we talk aboutis like, get that connection.
Cause when you get into rapport,it's easy to ask tougher questions.
Michael Whitehouse (32:32):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And this is some, somereally powerful stuff.
And so, you know, I, I, I like this.
This concept and that's why I sellby chat appeal to me in the first
place because it was, it was amore authentic way of connecting.
I, I got a networking becauseI don't like cold calling.
I networking was a better way ofconnecting people than picking up the
phone and just calling them cold and,and it, it worked better and they were
(32:55):
happier and everything was wonderful.
So, You know, so I, I like this,this concept and also it's about if
you have something that you know isvaluable and then that's where a lot
of entrepreneurs also get in trouble.
Like, I don't know if it's valuablebecause I haven't proven it yet.
Cause a lot of people are goinginto entrepreneurship, which is a
whole different conversation that'sbeyond the scope of this podcast.
(33:15):
But yeah, I'd love to talka little bit more about, you
know, onto the networking side.
You talked a lot about like directlyselling to people, but you talk
a little more about networking,how you can use that to both find.
People to engage with and then alsohow you can find partners who can
connect with audiences to engage
Sean Malone (33:33):
with.
Yeah, love that.
Okay, so a couple of use cases.
The first one I'll talk about is ifyou are trying to just find people
that you want to network with, right?
So one of the things that I wouldencourage is if you have a community
or a tribe that you're trying tobuild, example, Facebook group, or
if you're on school, you can build acommunity over there, or, you know,
there's a million of them, right?
So wherever you houseyour kind of community.
(33:56):
One of the easy icebreakermoves that you can start with.
And it's what we did for years.
Was say, Hey, I just builtthis networking group.
It's really bad ass.
It's got these types of people in here.
I think you might be a fit.
Are you interested in joining?
Right.
And it's a very quick one to onlypick out those people that are true
networker folk, because most peoplethat are like, Oh, well, you know,
they're either going to come at it.
(34:16):
Well, I can, I sell to them or I canadd value to the group is usually like
the either or kind of like, so you'relooking for the kind of people that are
saying I could add value to that group.
Yeah, I'll jump in.
Okay, great.
Here's my link.
Let me know when you join.
I'll have my team give you a warm welcome.
Then that happens, right?
You let them in the group, yourteam gives them a warm welcome.
And then you can come back now.
And you can say, Hey, I makeit a point to speak with every
(34:39):
member in my networking group.
To network, here's what's covered onthe call item one, two, and three.
In our case, it's number one.
I want to share what our group's all aboutand what content's allowed to be posted.
Number two, we have this kick assfree referral system that I'll
show you exactly how it executes.
And number three, I got to makesure that you have a system that's
robust, that can consistently andpredictably grow your business.
(35:01):
That's usually what my networkingcalls are, you know, are around.
If there's anything else you wantto add to the agenda, that's great.
Let me know.
And so I've been very crystalclear in my intent and my
purpose through the messages.
Very authentic, veryreal, but very scalable.
Hmm.
Michael Whitehouse (35:18):
I like that.
And, and so, and, and one thing I hearthrough that is, That you open the door.
I assume that you'd havesome sort of offer available.
So you open the door for
Sean Malone (35:29):
them to say, yeah, if you get that far and typically
in the calls, I'll start that way.
I'll be like, look, here's our group.
Like, what are the things thatyou were most interested in?
And I started asking you reallygood questions in my calls.
Why did you want to bein this networking group?
What are you hoping to accomplish?
Do you like to go to events?
Do you like to do this?
Oh, you need to go.
Michael Whitehouse (35:45):
Unless they self identify a need.
You'd never even make an offer.
Correct.
So, so they don't feel likethey're being pitched to and.
If an offer is made, then it would bebecause they identify, you know, yeah, I
don't really have that process in placeand I wish someone could help me with it.
Yeah.
Sean Malone (36:01):
Do you want to talk about it?
Always permission, alwayspermission, permission, permission.
That's how conversationsshould always be driven, right?
I usually start, I startthat part of the call.
So I always start with networking, learnall about them and everything else.
And then I'll show them a group,which is really easy and powerful.
If you have a group, this is how oursworks just so you know, I like to
give the kind of behind the curtain.
So it's, it's one of thosethings where it's like, look.
(36:22):
Michael, I know there's people inhere that can use your services.
Do me a favor.
Here's how our networking system works.
Go through my list of membersand tell me the top five or maybe
top 10 people you want to meet.
Send me the list.
I'll personally introduce them in a threeway message to you and you can start
a conversation with them from there.
That's it.
Free.
No, no, no.
Ask no anything beyond that.
That's what it is.
(36:43):
And then we'll transition to thelast part of that conversation.
And I'll say something like, well,do you have a systematic way of
consistently growing your business?
What is it?
Tell me about it.
How do you grow your company?
And then you start telling me and thenI'll just start asking question after
question and if we can find a gap, I'llbe like, I'm pretty good at solving that.
Do you want to go down that path?
I like that.
Michael Whitehouse (37:03):
I think I may be pulling the transcript from this
episode and going back over thispart because yeah, I have a Facebook
group, but I don't do much with it.
It's kind of like there becauseit hasn't been a major focus.
And part of that is just nothaving a strategy for it.
And you know, there's.
I've, I have learned that less ismore in my business, so I've really
zeroed into, you know, the morethings I get rid of, the better I do.
(37:24):
It's amazing how that works.
It's crazy.
But yeah, as you're talking about it,it's interesting thinking like, oh yeah,
this could really be effective for Youknow, for using that and, and, and, you
know, I love that concept, that justsmall amount of outreach to people in
the group, getting them on a call and,
Sean Malone (37:40):
and they've already had a couple of messages to like, so
the ice breaker for you is, do theywant to jump in your group or not?
And they're already, when they raisetheir hand and they say, yeah, sure.
I'll jump in your group.
Guess what?
They went from lead to engage lead.
They crossed the threshold.
So now you're like, oh, he's engaged.
Like now this could be aneasy conversation because
when they get in your group.
You already have rapportand nurture with them.
(38:01):
So now you can just start punchingreally sharp, a little harder
questions if you wanted to.
But again, I always, if it's networking.
Be true to the ethos ofwhat you're doing for good.
Never for evil.
Don't manipulate.
Don't make the switch.
Don't do all those things.
Right?
Like that's, that's
Michael Whitehouse (38:16):
the idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the key thing is, you know,doing it, doing it the right way.
Yeah.
And so, so you mentioned in thenotes that the networking has done
quite a bit for you personally.
So tell us about, you know,what networking has done for,
Sean Malone (38:30):
for you.
Oh, oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So so actually going back to the secondexample as well, and I'll just kind of
incorporate the whole thing togetheris like networking has really truly
changed the The direction of everybusiness that we've ever gone into.
So the first big networking group, Igot introduced to click funnels in 2016.
And if you know, Russell Brunson,he runs, he built a hundred million
(38:51):
dollars software company in five years.
I happened to invest intoevery product and service.
I've actually spent over a quarter milliondollars with the guy to learn from him.
And, and I got into a networkinggroup that costs 25, 000.
So one of the things I loveabout what you're doing, Michael.
Is low barrier to entry guys.
If you haven't gotten a ticketto this next event, go get it.
It's super, super inexpensive.
(39:12):
It's like the right thing todo right now because they're
going to go up as he gets going.
So right.
But the idea was, is, is I invested, youknow, my wife and I invested, you know, a
whole bunch of money to be in this room.
And that was my first example of liketrue networking at a very high level.
And I, and I went into that roomthinking, Oh man, am I going to get
pitched or am I going to pitch everybody?
You're like, what's going to happen here.
(39:34):
And, and, and that cataclysmic shiftfor me where people are just getting
on stage saying, Here's the onething that works really good for me.
Here's the thing that sucks for me.
What's your advice?
And how do I fix this thing over here?
And I was like, that's awesome.
Like so valuable to listento that conversation.
It wasn't salesy at all.
And what came after was.
(39:54):
I did the same thing and peopleare like, Oh my God, your
thing that you do really good.
Like, I need that.
Can you help me?
And that generated business and change.
And on the other side, the people thatcame that were smarter, intelligent,
and already solved this thing forthemselves, they came to me and they
said, Oh, you need to meet so and so andso and so and do this and this and this.
So networking for me worked kind ofin both ways to not only grow the
(40:14):
business, but also to expand my network.
Cause they say network is net worth.
Network is net worth.
So I know that I can reach out toAlex Ramosi on Voxer right now.
I know I can reach out to MyronGolden on Voxer right now.
Russell Brunson right now, BrendanBurchard right now, because I know
them through my networking groups.
And when you know the rightpeople, like, you know, a guy who
(40:36):
knows a guy, everything gets alot better, faster, and easier.
Because as our CEO, my businesspartner, Chris says, he's like, you can
go if you want to go fast, go alone.
But if you want to go far, go together.
Michael Whitehouse (40:49):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's that is a, ahuge and powerful thing.
And I'm glad I mentioned Chris,I was trying to remember how we
connected and I'm pretty sureit was a cold DM from Chris.
And I'm pretty sure, I remember asking inthat DM, I was like, who am I talking to?
Because I, I assumed I was talkingto, you know, an assistant.
(41:11):
And he's like, nope, you're talking tome, and I'm gonna connect you with Sean,
and we're gonna get into conversation.
So there's, there's thatinitial skepticism about like,
who am I really talking to?
But once I identified, once Iengaged then, then he outflashed
into something that became...
became something very powerful.
But yeah, so I, I like what you'resaying about, you know, by someone once
(41:31):
said Justin Breen said to me that hisstrategy is to pay, pay more and more
money to get into better and better rooms.
Sean Malone (41:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I agree.
But I also, I also feel like there'sa, there's a space for what you're
Michael Whitehouse (41:41):
doing.
Yeah.
Well, when I say the person whoget before you can afford 25, 000,
you've got to get in that first roomwhere you meet those first people.
And what I found is, you know, for obviousreasons, people want to make money.
So a lot of the best people, they'relike, if it's not a million dollars,
it's not worth my attention.
If it can't scale to a million,I'm not going to bother.
And I'm in that space of, Idon't need to scale to a million.
(42:05):
That's, that's not what I'm called to do.
If something leaves that opportunity,it will, but I want to be that first
because currently for a lot of Youknow, that is not a good staircase.
That is really hard to climb.
So I just want to provide that firststep where for a negligible amount of
money, you can get into the space, rubshoulders, and you know, once you're in
(42:26):
there, I'm, I'm optimizing the event toprovide, to make it as easy as possible.
You still got to do the work yourself.
Cause for as little as we're charging,no one's holding your hand individually.
We're putting you in the rightroom with the right people.
Now you've got to actually talkto them and do something with it.
But but yo, the first step isjust to get in the right room.
That that's what I discovered in 2020,when everything went online, I was
(42:47):
able to get into rooms I could neverafforded before, and that let me connect
with people who I never would have beenable to meet before and, and of course,
the other thing is being open to it.
You know, we're having this conversationbecause when I got a cold DM, I
wasn't like, who the hell is this guy?
I was like, huh, who the hell is this guy?
And I was open to like,let's see this conversation.
That's what frustrates meso much with most cold DMs.
(43:09):
I'm like, I'm happy to talk to you.
Let's network.
How can we work together?
And they're like, I am actually aVA and I cannot talk to you at all.
I can only send you to the sales page.
Like, I'm willing to workwith you and I can't even talk
Sean Malone (43:23):
to you.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah, I, I agree.
I think again, it's, it's, Leavinghumanization in the process, I think is,
is very, very important and somethingthat we'll always hold as a dear,
true value, like close to our hearts.
Right.
The other thing I just wanted tojust double back again on that last
other question you asked me is like,how could this work for networking?
(43:45):
Right.
Say, for example you have a provenproduct, proven path over here.
Maybe you're selling some sortof like training for being an
electrical contractor as an example.
Okay.
Yep.
Let's say you want to grow your business.
And you don't want to do the outreachor you don't want to do this, but
you do want to do like joint venturesor partnerships with other people.
Well, what you can do through a mediumlike email or DM or text or SMS, whatever
(44:10):
is you can reach out to a plumber, right?
And you can say, Hey, Mr.
Plumber, we serve the same clients.
I'm electrical, you're plumbing.
Okay.
And I want to email your list.
Would you like to email mylist for plumbing services?
And all of a sudden thatgenerates now this really awesome
JV networking opportunity.
(44:31):
And the thing that we talked aboutbefore this call is interesting.
Let's say the electrical contractorhas a bigger list than the plumber.
Okay.
Yep.
So what is the electrician guideor the electric guy to come back?
He says, look, I recognize theystart talking and plumber says,
well, my list is this big electriciansays, my list is this big.
He said, okay, cool.
Well, look, my list is a lot bigger.
Mine's a hundred thousand.
Yours is only 10, 000,but here's what I'll do.
(44:53):
I'm going to email a segment of mylist and you email your full list.
So it's even, and thenwe'll see the exchange.
Does that sound like something you can do?
And that becomes an easy way touse what we call, you've heard
of OPM, other people's money.
Have you heard of OPA, whichis other people's audiences?
This is one of the fastest trendsof how to grow strategically
(45:14):
your business very, very rapidly.
So that process we've executedthrough DMS over and over and over
and over again, works really well.
We've done a lot.
That's how I got in frontof 7, 000 restaurant owners.
Michael Whitehouse (45:27):
I love that you said that with, with cause you know,
we think of that with coaches, wethink about the course creators.
I don't think most peoplethink about that with.
plumbers, electrical contractors,realtors, you know, those kinds of people.
And realize like anyone with an email listcan do this and everyone should have an
email list because you should be capturingyour audience so you can continue
to serve them and engage with them.
(45:47):
So
Sean Malone (45:48):
I love that the real estate examples is tremendous, right?
So if you're, if you'rea realtor, guess what?
All those homes need electrical, allthose homes need plumbing, all those
homes need pool maintenance, all thosehomes need contractors for their garden.
What's to stop you as a realtor to goout to a contractor that has a bunch of
clients where they do in your neighborhoodof the houses you want to sell.
(46:09):
They're doing all the landscaping.
What if you went to that guy andyou're like, look, let's cross promote.
I want to sell houses in your neighborhoodand you want to do more stuff over here.
This is the other neighbor I had.
Who's going to say no to that deal.
That's awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (46:21):
And it costs nothing and it serves because you know, why do
you stay on your realtor's email list?
Do you have to buy the house?
Not 'cause they're givingyou market updates.
Yeah.
I bought my house three years ago.
I don't need market updates.
I own the house, I'm done,I'm out of the market.
But if they're gonna say, Hey,here's a great electrician that,
that I trust, who's a good person?
So if you need one, here he is.
Or, you know, contractor of theweek here, here's, here's John.
(46:45):
He's a great electric contractor.
Sean Malone (46:47):
That's a slam dunk to grow a business in a kind
of, I guess, grassroots fashion.
Michael Whitehouse (46:52):
Yep.
Right.
And it provides value.
It's value all the way around,which is, which is huge.
Sean Malone (46:57):
I'm the realtor in the area.
I just found the besthouse cleaner of all times.
Are you interested?
Interesting.
Right.
So
Michael Whitehouse (47:05):
yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a really, really greatconcept and taking it beyond the
space we think or that I think ofit in, into all these other spaces.
So this is why I love podcasts.
I get to meet, I get tolearn so much from my guests.
But all good things must endand there's no timer running.
I think we're like threehours into this podcast.
So
Sean Malone (47:21):
I've enjoyed dude, you're, you're awesome.
I enjoy that a lot of you, man.
If
Michael Whitehouse (47:25):
people want to connect with you how could they learn
more about you and flow chat and all the
Sean Malone (47:29):
rest?
Yeah.
So if you want to learn more aboutflow chat, just go to flow chat.
com.
F L O W C H a t.
com.
Flow chat.
com.
That's one way.
Otherwise just hit me up in the DMs.
I'll be there.
That's where I live.
Awesome.
Michael Whitehouse (47:43):
I imagine.
So very good.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
It's been great talking to
Sean Malone (47:46):
you.
You too, Michael.
Thanks so much.
And again, I just, I want to say frombottom of my heart, dude, I'm really
grateful that you're putting the vibesout that you put out in the world.
And I think the service you'reproviding is serving a blue ocean.
And I think you have theright purple offer from the
red ocean to the blue ocean.
And I think it's going to crush for you.
And I'm excited to continue helpingmove the, move the train forward.
(48:07):
So thanks for doing what you do.
Thank you.
Michael Whitehouse (48:11):
Thank you for joining us for the guy who knows the guy podcast.
I'm Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows the guy.
And I hope you'll join us in Decemberfor the 12th and the 14th for JV connect.
Go to guy who knows a guy.
com for more details.
Now, if it's after December, 2023,and you're listening to this, it's
okay, because we're going to bedoing this event every quarter
to go to guy who knows a guy.
(48:32):
com, see what's new, see what's happening.
And of course, check the show notes,learn about our guests and how
you just get in touch with them.
Check out our next episode formore great training, information,
and networking tips from MichaelWhitehouse, the guy who knows a guy.
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