February 20, 2025 • 23 mins
Welcome to the Guy Who Knows a Guy Podcast, recorded live at Podapalooza 15 with your host, Michael Whitehouse. In this episode, Jessper Maquindang—owner of Familied Management Consulting—dives deep into how leaders and managers can build stronger teams in today’s evolving work environment. From enhancing team cohesion through intentional connection to overcoming the unique challenges of remote and hybrid work, Jessper reveals actionable strategies for effective leadership and team building.
Key Discussion Points:
• The importance of continuous personal and leadership development
• Strategies to foster genuine team connection and combat isolation in remote settings
• How structured leadership training can prevent the pitfalls of the Peter Principle
• Real-world tips for maximizing productivity and engagement in modern workplaces
Get in Touch:
• Visit Jessper’s website: familyconsulting.com
• Connect with Michael Whitehouse: guywhoknowsaguy.com
• Discover Inspiring Summits: summits.fun
Tune in for an insightful conversation that will empower you to lead more effectively and build teams that thrive!
Mentioned in this episode:
JV Connect, December 12-13, 2023
Join us for JV Connect, the dedicated networking event December 12th and 13th, 2023 https://www.jv-connect.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the guy whoknows a guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows the guy himself.
And we are recording live totape at Potapalooza number 15.
Over the last five years, I've hadthe privilege of meeting and learning
from thousands of entrepreneurs,experts, and awesome people.
And now I leverage that knowledgeto help my clients cut through
the junk and focus on just whatthey need to achieve their goals.
(00:24):
And I'm excited to meet.
One more awesome person.
Jesper Machmundang is the ownerof Familied Management Consulting.
He helps leaders and managersbuild stronger teams through team
building activities, leadershipassessments, and executive coaching.
So Jesper, in your own words,what makes you awesome?
(00:45):
Michael, first off,thank you for having me.
Very excited for our conversation todayand the sense of awesomeness I would
say it's the willingness to learn,continuous improvement, continuous growth,
because for me, I grew up just beinginspired by this idea of leadership,
and over the years, I've been tryingto find out myself what leadership
(01:06):
means to me, and I realize that It'sthat sense of growing and developing,
not just one, not just a one and donething, but to be an effective leader.
It's continual growth each day and everyday, and I'm committed to that growth
because that's what I'm passionate about.
I love it.
It reminds me of Something someone saidonce that I've used many times, which
(01:30):
is that entrepreneurship is applied.
Self entrepreneurship is applied personaldevelopment and I think leadership
is also applied personal development.
So, um, so tell me more about,you know, some of the work you do.
You said you work withleaders and managers.
This incorporations or this in.
In nonprofits companies,who do you work with?
Absolutely.
(01:50):
So I enjoy working with the essentialorganizations such as healthcare,
education, finance, technology, becausewhat I've realized is in these fast paced
environments, this sense of teamworkis what really drives innovation.
(02:10):
Because when one leader is takingthe reins and running with one single
idea, if it goes wrong, that's.
All eggs in one basket, and thatcan lead to a dangerous situation.
On the other hand, when you'regiving other people the space to
express their voice, be heard, thatreally gives an opportunity for
(02:31):
everyone to share their perspectives.
And when you have a lot more perspectivesput together, there's just a lot more
ways you can really use to move forwardinstead of putting all your eggs in
one basket and hoping for the best.
On the other hand, you haveeveryone's help along your journey.
So what are some of the, arethere new changes in leadership
(02:52):
or new challenges in leadership?
Now, a quarter of the way intothe century, or is it kind of
the same challenges have alwaysbeen just new organizations
and coming out different ways.
I'd say in recent years, thisthere's a challenge that's been
really intensified and pandemic.
We've really seen an increase in theworld of remote work and hybrid work.
(03:14):
And along the lines within that timeframe,we've seen a higher sense of isolation.
And when people feel isolated, there'sthis sense that there's less, uh,
less engagement, less productivity.
But on the other hand, when a leaderis more intentional about really
(03:34):
helping their team really feellike a team, there's that greatest
sense of motivation and drive.
And when leaders really make thatspace, they're encouraging their.
Employees, their team members to reallygrow and develop in that, within that
sense of belonging community togetherness.
So it's really a sense of overcomingthat isolation when we're looking
(03:59):
at this rise of remote work andhybrid work in today's society.
So when it comes to remote andhybrid work, do you think that is
a, a positive that just needs to beworked with differently, or do you
think it's net negative that's makingit harder to run organizations?
Excellent question.
It can be seen both ways.
(04:19):
Positive because there's agreater sense of flexibility.
You don't have to, especially when you'reliving in major metropolitan cities, this
commute, you're able to cut down thattime and really focus on On your work.
Once you head to your desk and on theother hand, the challenge there is, is the
(04:40):
sense of in person connection when we'relooking at today's society pre pandemic.
It was easier for someone tostep out of their desk and really
go to another cubicle or officeand say, Michael, how you doing?
How was your weekend?
Really?
Would really like toget to know you today.
It's a little bit differentin the virtual world.
(05:02):
People have to be more intentional.
It's And actually, I would encourage thatintentionality and deliberateness for
people to reach out to others, schedulethat into your calendar, instead of
living to chance because again, in today'sworld, Well, especially with remote
and hybrid, that sense of connectionis not the same as it used to be.
And that's, that's a key thing,that intentional connection.
(05:25):
Um, have you seen examples of it done wellwith, with companies that have gone to
more of a, uh, remote or hybrid structure,still maintaining those connections?
It's really, uh, encouraging thatflexibility and really giving.
Employees that opportunity to checkin and continue to provide ideas again
(05:47):
when we're working with our teams,leaving them aside and not checking
in with them, not hearing from them.
You really don't know whatprogress is going to look like.
On the other hand, when, uh,organizations, leaders and managers are
really taking steps to, uh, reach outand continually see, uh, what progress
looks like and giving employees and theirpeople the opportunity to share new ideas.
(06:13):
On how they can move forward.
That's really going to bring a lot ofprogress into the work that's being done.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think about some of theorganizations, the teams I work
with, because we're all remote.
Well, you know, working from homein different states and different
countries, so we're not, there'sno office to go into for us.
But I think for a lotof corporations, it was.
(06:33):
It may have been a crutch to have everyonein the same building in the same office.
So the manager could feel like, ohyeah, I see him on his computer,
he must be getting work done.
Oh, I see him on hiscomputer, he's got work done.
Uh, and so, you know,didn't have to be organized.
You just got, thought pops intoyour head, you walk over, Hey, yeah,
Bob could take care of this for me.
And, uh, When you're online,you have to be more intentional.
You have to schedule the meetings.
(06:56):
You have to schedulethe social interaction.
You have to create, whether it's Slackor, or Discord or WhatsApp, whatever,
you have to create the medium for this,this exchange of ideas and not just
rely on, we happen to be in the room.
I saw that with networking groupstoo, like BNI, a lot of BNI chapters.
When they went virtual, BNIshould be phenomenal online.
(07:17):
It's perfectly set up for to, towork on zoom because one person
speaks at a time and y'all taketurns and it's perfect for it.
And so many chapters said it was terrible.
I hate it.
It's not working because they weren'tdoing it right in the first place.
And you take something broken,you put it online and you see
everything that's broken about it.
So have you seen some of that withthe, with, you know, a management
(07:39):
environment where the manager.
Is sort of writing off their lackof management skill, um, to virtual.
And so that's what I'm trying topull people back into the office.
You know, that's very interesting.
And you brought up an interestingtheme, the idea of management by walking
around where someone could really justlook outside their office and see,
Oh, that person a is on their desk, sothey're doing their work person B is
(08:04):
at their desk, so they're doing worknow, as far as the disconnect, uh, yes.
And it really highlights that.
For management to be effective, regardlessof the environment or the setting,
they still need the right mindset, theright processes, the right structures.
(08:24):
So if their in person managementwas ineffective in the first
place, it's not going to translatewell into other environments.
And then on the other hand, whenmanagers already have great systems and
processes, when it's set to different,again, different settings or different
environments, it might not be perfectthe first time, but since that, that
(08:45):
leader manager has already made greatstrides, It's going to be easier.
It's a course.
Correct.
Yeah, it's one of the challenges andI, I, for the most part of allergic
corporates, I try to stay out of it.
But, um, the, the sense I get from it isthat a lot of them don't have clear goals.
They don't have clear.
So, you know, they'll take an employeeand they'll say, work on this, work on
(09:07):
this, work on this instead of your job is,uh, you know, by Thursday, I need this.
This project completed,whatever it takes, get it done.
Here's the criteria.
Cause that takes work toplan ahead and figure it out.
And so they say, okay, yeah,create this landing page.
Okay.
Create this webpage.
Okay.
Create this email sequence.
(09:28):
Um, and they have no ideawhat the big picture is.
So the employee then can't say, well,what if we did it in the other order?
And then we could reuse this becausethey don't know what they're doing.
But if you can just poke yourhead out of the door and be like,
Hey, how's that website coming?
Good.
Okay.
Um, but then you go to online andall of a sudden you're like, I
don't know what anyone's doing,which, um, well, you know, ask them.
Um, so, so what, what do you findare, are the, the best practices,
(09:52):
like the, the people who did, whodid transition well, um, what was
the, the key to their success?
So the key to success was reallyunderstanding and being aware of
their own leadership style andthen being aware of the other needs
and, uh, experiences, skills ofthe people they work with that way.
(10:15):
When they did transition into adifferent environment, they were ready
to adapt, knowing how they could work.
And how they could work together andjust having this knowledge of really
taking your leadership and the skills andexperience that you've had as a leader.
(10:36):
That's really important.
Made you effective using thosesame principles and applying that
again in different places That'lltransition better rather than
someone who let's say a leader.
Let's call him Imaginary John he had noidea what he was doing in the first place
(10:58):
And he had he had never taken the timeto really understand what his role was
Of course, if you bring him to a remoteor hybrid environment, he's still gonna
have no idea of what he's doing, andvice versa, from remote to in person.
Either way, if Imaginary John had takenthe time to develop his leadership skills,
(11:18):
keep learning, find ways to become betterat what he does, Then regardless, I mean,
it's not going to be perfect the firsttime if he decides to move to a different
area But it'll be easier for him to findhis footing as he moves forward instead of
being completely lost in the first placeYeah, so I know one of the challenges is I
(11:40):
believe they call it the peter principle.
Um that people are You know, promotedto their level of incompetence,
uh, and then this, you know, we'retalking about this for, for decades.
Um, do you find that now there's moreawareness of that companies are better
about training their managers as they makethe managers or is there, is this problem
getting worse because they're tryingto save money or a little bit of both?
(12:03):
Yeah.
What are you seeing right nowin the industry in terms of
managers being trained in thisvery unique skill of management?
Yes.
Very unique.
Uh, the Peter principle and It statesthat people really rise, essentially,
people rise to the level of their failure.
And when it comes to the Peter Principle,it's essentially all over the place.
(12:23):
When organizations invest in thelearning, into the development of their
leaders, those people really have abetter chance of thriving in their roles.
On the other hand, when organizations makebudget cuts and don't include training and
development, As part of their livelihood,that's where you'll see challenges where
(12:44):
leaders are in a sink or swim situation.
And if there's no investment in continuallearning, they're going to sink and it's
going to just create challenges for themto really be effective in what they do
and how they can serve their organization.
And are you seeing this?
Do you think there's more awarenessnow in the need for investing?
(13:05):
In management, I would say, generally,yes, because the value of leadership
development, we're seeing moreof a return on investment because
when leaders are getting trainedup and sharpen in their skills.
And what they can do, then yes, there isan opportunity for them to get better.
(13:27):
On the other hand, uh, if it's not apriority, of course, uh, these leaders
are going to sink and it's goingto be difficult for them to really
move forward with the organization.
Yeah.
So how would these concepts apply toentrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, us in
the, us working out of our basements onthe internet, um, yeah, do these apply,
(13:50):
or are these just corporate concepts?
Yeah.
Oh, these simply apply to solopreneursand entrepreneurs, because when it
comes to learning and development,when a solopreneur or entrepreneur
does not really take the time tounderstand the ins and outs of not
only their business, but themselves,that could create more challenges in
(14:12):
really understanding what to do next.
On the other hand, if a, if anentrepreneur really overcomes that
Peter principle and really applies.
More knowledge developmentand that growth.
Uh, there's just a better opportunity forthat entrepreneur to do greater things.
That makes a lot of sense.
(14:33):
And, and I imagine this also applieswith how they manage their teams as well.
Cause a lot of them don't have, youknow, nine to five teams, but they have
contractors and, and have to be a lotmore cognizant of wasting their time.
Um, I, I, I don't remember who it was.
I remember there was some, somespeakers talking about the fact
that anytime there's a meetingthat they, he has the managers
(14:54):
calculate what that meeting costs.
So, you know, what is the hourlyrate of the people in that room
and how long is it going to be?
And, you know, because if you gotsomeone making 100, 000 a year,
then they're, they're at, that's100, 000, 50 an hour, I think.
Um, and So, you know, if it's going tobe an hour and there's 10 people in the
meeting, well, then that's a 500 meeting.
(15:17):
Is that worth 500 to have that meeting?
Or could you have let some of the peoplekeep working and, you know, applying
this and this is a company where, youknow, upper management where these
people are making 100, 200, 300 an hour.
So he'd look at some of these meetingsand say, yeah, this meeting costs 4, 700.
And I want a 10X returnon everything we do.
(15:38):
So, is this meetinggoing to make us 47, 000?
No, go back to your desks.
Um, we're not having this meeting.
Uh, because, you know, so many people,they end up being bogged down in
meetings and can't get anything done.
They're doing it, but if you have acontractor, and they're there for an
hour for the meeting, you're paying them.
You know, if their hourly rate's100, you're actually writing them
a check for 100 for that meeting.
(15:58):
Uh, you learn to get a lotmore efficient with meetings.
That's right.
That's an excellent perspective,because when it comes to meeting, uh,
based on my experience, I've seen somany where it's just status report.
Oh, Jesper, what are you doing?
Great.
And then move to the next meeting.
Jesper, what's your progress on this task?
Great.
For meetings to be effective, itshould really focus on the purpose
(16:20):
And really, the, what the outcomesthey want in the projects that they're
working with, because again, if it'sjust status updates, you're really
just checking in and you're payingpeople just to see what they're doing.
On the other hand, if you're lookingat overall big picture that you're
(16:40):
striving for and seeing how close youare to getting there, that's where a
meeting makes a lot more value in termsof, What it can provide to the team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, one of my clients, there is an allhands meeting 30 minutes once a month.
And that all hands meeting is reporting.
Here's where we are with our goalsand here's where the company is.
(17:03):
And here's, um, you know,big picture kind of stuff.
Some, sometimes it's stuff that wedon't necessarily need to know, but,
you know, Hey, you guys want to see ourmarketing numbers for our last launch?
We're like, yeah, we want to see it.
And you know, we don'tneed to know that stuff.
But it's really cool to see that stuff.
And then you feel like you'relike, Oh, I was part of that.
Um, and so kind of shares the biggerpicture, but that's, I got, you
(17:24):
know, anything else is the peoplewho need to be there are there.
And otherwise, you know,everyone else is, is out of it.
Um, cause you're not paying someonejust for being in the office,
which is very, very powerful.
Um, so, so what besides, uh, youknow, remote and remote hybrid
home in the office, all that?
Yeah.
Um, what else are youseeing on the horizon?
(17:46):
That's that's affecting management,both in entrepreneurship and in.
Absolutely.
And it's the rise of artificialintelligence and its impact
on leadership and management.
And I would say that artificialintelligence, it is, it does have
amazing capacity and capabilities.
(18:07):
I don't believe it's going to replaceeffective leaders because when it
comes to artificial intelligence,what it depends on is prompting.
And when it comes to prompting, artificialintelligence is only as intelligence.
As the person using it.
So if you have a nine year old askingfor a golden table, a picture of a golden
(18:28):
table, that's all you're really goingto get, a picture of a golden table.
On the other hand, that applies,that same thing applies to leaders.
If a leader says, uh, what dayshould I pack a brown bag lunch?
Again, based on prompting, that'sthe only result you're going to get.
But for a leader to really be effective,it's to really understand what, uh,
(18:55):
they're striving for, because when itcomes to prompting, uh, unless a leader
really knows how to effectively find Um,A sort of programming or understanding
that really elevates their team.
That's only really whenartificial intelligence is really
(19:17):
going to be that effective.
Again, when it comes to artificialintelligence, it's only as good as the
prompting as the person applying it.
So as far as replacing leadership, it'snot there yet because effective leaders
have a certain way of looking at things.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Talking to someone recently was sayingthat with their company is it was a
(19:37):
tech company and they'd replace mostof their coders with technology, but
is basically a team of prompters.
So it was a team of managers andthe managers would manage the AI and
say, I need this built and they wouldhave to give the good instructions.
And so.
What they really needed was reallygood leaders, managers who knew what
(19:57):
they wanted so they could ask for itbecause they couldn't just throw sloppy
instructions at the staff and have themclean it up because, uh, so it needs
people who can manage the machines.
Um, but it's replacing the peoplewho are actually doing the work
and it's just managing those.
Um, so I definitely seethat, that trend occurring.
(20:18):
Um, and so, so what do you see happeningwith the people Who were in those jobs
who are now no longer there becausethe AI is doing that work for them.
That's right, because AI, especiallyhow it's progressing, it's been
able to automate certain things.
But at the same time, if we look atthe history of work, automation has
(20:39):
been around in some form or another.
Uh, so it's really a case ofUpgrading your skills to stay
ahead of the game, and that's truefor the past 200 years of work.
Uh, it's really, when, A newtechnology presents itself, doesn't
necessarily eliminate jobs, itjust ADATs how society works.
(21:04):
So for example, in the 1970s whenXerox came out, people had the fear,
oh my gosh, it's going to replaceso many admin jobs because the
printer is gonna print things for us.
Well, in reality, although itkind of offset those certain
admin jobs at the same time.
It created a new workforce oftechnology technicians who can
(21:27):
work on either upgrading ormaintaining these printer systems.
So, again, it does notnecessarily disrupt.
It just adjust how society works.
Absolutely.
Um, yes, it's been interesting to knowabout, you know, different concepts of
leadership and and management, how itapplies to different, different spaces.
Um, so, if people want to getin touch with you, what's the
(21:49):
best way for them to do that?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Feel free to visit me on my website.
It's familyconsulting.
com and you can also reachout to me on LinkedIn.
I absolutely love conversationsabout leadership, personal growth,
professional development, team building,workplace culture, you name it.
Feel free to reach out.
I love to have thosetypes of conversations.
(22:10):
Awesome.
That's family lead, like F A MI as in family lead consulting.
com.
And what's your closing thought?
And I would say overall, especiallyin today's world to be an effective
leader, embrace the idea of connectionand belonging, because I, as we've
seen in recent years, uh, this sense ofisolation for people to feel a greater
(22:33):
sense of productivity, engagement.
And motivation, especially in theworkplace is to be intent, more
intentional about reaching out to peopleand making them feel as part of your team.
Great.
Well, thank you, Jesperfor being a part of this.
It's been awesome.
Your final interview for Potapalooza.
So it's been a great day and Iappreciate you being a part of it.
(22:55):
Thank you, Michael.
It was great to be here today.
Welcome to the guy whoknows a guy podcast.
I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse,the guy who knows the guy himself.
And we are recording live totape at Potapalooza number 15.
Over the last five years, I've hadthe privilege of meeting and learning
from thousands of entrepreneurs,experts, and awesome people.
And now I leverage that knowledgeto help my clients cut through
the junk and focus on just whatthey need to achieve their goals.
(00:24):
And I'm excited to meet.
One more awesome person.
Jesper Machmundang is the ownerof Familied Management Consulting.
He helps leaders and managersbuild stronger teams through team
building activities, leadershipassessments, and executive coaching.
So Jesper, in your own words,what makes you awesome?
(00:45):
Michael, first off,thank you for having me.
Very excited for our conversation todayand the sense of awesomeness I would
say it's the willingness to learn,continuous improvement, continuous growth,
because for me, I grew up just beinginspired by this idea of leadership,
and over the years, I've been tryingto find out myself what leadership
(01:06):
means to me, and I realize that It'sthat sense of growing and developing,
not just one, not just a one and donething, but to be an effective leader.
It's continual growth each day and everyday, and I'm committed to that growth
because that's what I'm passionate about.
I love it.
It reminds me of Something someone saidonce that I've used many times, which
(01:30):
is that entrepreneurship is applied.
Self entrepreneurship is applied personaldevelopment and I think leadership
is also applied personal development.
So, um, so tell me more about,you know, some of the work you do.
You said you work withleaders and managers.
This incorporations or this in.
In nonprofits companies,who do you work with?
Absolutely.
(01:50):
So I enjoy working with the essentialorganizations such as healthcare,
education, finance, technology, becausewhat I've realized is in these fast paced
environments, this sense of teamworkis what really drives innovation.
(02:10):
Because when one leader is takingthe reins and running with one single
idea, if it goes wrong, that's.
All eggs in one basket, and thatcan lead to a dangerous situation.
On the other hand, when you'regiving other people the space to
express their voice, be heard, thatreally gives an opportunity for
(02:31):
everyone to share their perspectives.
And when you have a lot more perspectivesput together, there's just a lot more
ways you can really use to move forwardinstead of putting all your eggs in
one basket and hoping for the best.
On the other hand, you haveeveryone's help along your journey.
So what are some of the, arethere new changes in leadership
(02:52):
or new challenges in leadership?
Now, a quarter of the way intothe century, or is it kind of
the same challenges have alwaysbeen just new organizations
and coming out different ways.
I'd say in recent years, thisthere's a challenge that's been
really intensified and pandemic.
We've really seen an increase in theworld of remote work and hybrid work.
(03:14):
And along the lines within that timeframe,we've seen a higher sense of isolation.
And when people feel isolated, there'sthis sense that there's less, uh,
less engagement, less productivity.
But on the other hand, when a leaderis more intentional about really
(03:34):
helping their team really feellike a team, there's that greatest
sense of motivation and drive.
And when leaders really make thatspace, they're encouraging their.
Employees, their team members to reallygrow and develop in that, within that
sense of belonging community togetherness.
So it's really a sense of overcomingthat isolation when we're looking
(03:59):
at this rise of remote work andhybrid work in today's society.
So when it comes to remote andhybrid work, do you think that is
a, a positive that just needs to beworked with differently, or do you
think it's net negative that's makingit harder to run organizations?
Excellent question.
It can be seen both ways.
(04:19):
Positive because there's agreater sense of flexibility.
You don't have to, especially when you'reliving in major metropolitan cities, this
commute, you're able to cut down thattime and really focus on On your work.
Once you head to your desk and on theother hand, the challenge there is, is the
(04:40):
sense of in person connection when we'relooking at today's society pre pandemic.
It was easier for someone tostep out of their desk and really
go to another cubicle or officeand say, Michael, how you doing?
How was your weekend?
Really?
Would really like toget to know you today.
It's a little bit differentin the virtual world.
(05:02):
People have to be more intentional.
It's And actually, I would encourage thatintentionality and deliberateness for
people to reach out to others, schedulethat into your calendar, instead of
living to chance because again, in today'sworld, Well, especially with remote
and hybrid, that sense of connectionis not the same as it used to be.
And that's, that's a key thing,that intentional connection.
(05:25):
Um, have you seen examples of it done wellwith, with companies that have gone to
more of a, uh, remote or hybrid structure,still maintaining those connections?
It's really, uh, encouraging thatflexibility and really giving.
Employees that opportunity to checkin and continue to provide ideas again
(05:47):
when we're working with our teams,leaving them aside and not checking
in with them, not hearing from them.
You really don't know whatprogress is going to look like.
On the other hand, when, uh,organizations, leaders and managers are
really taking steps to, uh, reach outand continually see, uh, what progress
looks like and giving employees and theirpeople the opportunity to share new ideas.
(06:13):
On how they can move forward.
That's really going to bring a lot ofprogress into the work that's being done.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think about some of theorganizations, the teams I work
with, because we're all remote.
Well, you know, working from homein different states and different
countries, so we're not, there'sno office to go into for us.
But I think for a lotof corporations, it was.
(06:33):
It may have been a crutch to have everyonein the same building in the same office.
So the manager could feel like, ohyeah, I see him on his computer,
he must be getting work done.
Oh, I see him on hiscomputer, he's got work done.
Uh, and so, you know,didn't have to be organized.
You just got, thought pops intoyour head, you walk over, Hey, yeah,
Bob could take care of this for me.
And, uh, When you're online,you have to be more intentional.
You have to schedule the meetings.
(06:56):
You have to schedulethe social interaction.
You have to create, whether it's Slackor, or Discord or WhatsApp, whatever,
you have to create the medium for this,this exchange of ideas and not just
rely on, we happen to be in the room.
I saw that with networking groupstoo, like BNI, a lot of BNI chapters.
When they went virtual, BNIshould be phenomenal online.
(07:17):
It's perfectly set up for to, towork on zoom because one person
speaks at a time and y'all taketurns and it's perfect for it.
And so many chapters said it was terrible.
I hate it.
It's not working because they weren'tdoing it right in the first place.
And you take something broken,you put it online and you see
everything that's broken about it.
So have you seen some of that withthe, with, you know, a management
(07:39):
environment where the manager.
Is sort of writing off their lackof management skill, um, to virtual.
And so that's what I'm trying topull people back into the office.
You know, that's very interesting.
And you brought up an interestingtheme, the idea of management by walking
around where someone could really justlook outside their office and see,
Oh, that person a is on their desk, sothey're doing their work person B is
(08:04):
at their desk, so they're doing worknow, as far as the disconnect, uh, yes.
And it really highlights that.
For management to be effective, regardlessof the environment or the setting,
they still need the right mindset, theright processes, the right structures.
(08:24):
So if their in person managementwas ineffective in the first
place, it's not going to translatewell into other environments.
And then on the other hand, whenmanagers already have great systems and
processes, when it's set to different,again, different settings or different
environments, it might not be perfectthe first time, but since that, that
(08:45):
leader manager has already made greatstrides, It's going to be easier.
It's a course.
Correct.
Yeah, it's one of the challenges andI, I, for the most part of allergic
corporates, I try to stay out of it.
But, um, the, the sense I get from it isthat a lot of them don't have clear goals.
They don't have clear.
So, you know, they'll take an employeeand they'll say, work on this, work on
(09:07):
this, work on this instead of your job is,uh, you know, by Thursday, I need this.
This project completed,whatever it takes, get it done.
Here's the criteria.
Cause that takes work toplan ahead and figure it out.
And so they say, okay, yeah,create this landing page.
Okay.
Create this webpage.
Okay.
Create this email sequence.
(09:28):
Um, and they have no ideawhat the big picture is.
So the employee then can't say, well,what if we did it in the other order?
And then we could reuse this becausethey don't know what they're doing.
But if you can just poke yourhead out of the door and be like,
Hey, how's that website coming?
Good.
Okay.
Um, but then you go to online andall of a sudden you're like, I
don't know what anyone's doing,which, um, well, you know, ask them.
Um, so, so what, what do you findare, are the, the best practices,
(09:52):
like the, the people who did, whodid transition well, um, what was
the, the key to their success?
So the key to success was reallyunderstanding and being aware of
their own leadership style andthen being aware of the other needs
and, uh, experiences, skills ofthe people they work with that way.
(10:15):
When they did transition into adifferent environment, they were ready
to adapt, knowing how they could work.
And how they could work together andjust having this knowledge of really
taking your leadership and the skills andexperience that you've had as a leader.
(10:36):
That's really important.
Made you effective using thosesame principles and applying that
again in different places That'lltransition better rather than
someone who let's say a leader.
Let's call him Imaginary John he had noidea what he was doing in the first place
(10:58):
And he had he had never taken the timeto really understand what his role was
Of course, if you bring him to a remoteor hybrid environment, he's still gonna
have no idea of what he's doing, andvice versa, from remote to in person.
Either way, if Imaginary John had takenthe time to develop his leadership skills,
(11:18):
keep learning, find ways to become betterat what he does, Then regardless, I mean,
it's not going to be perfect the firsttime if he decides to move to a different
area But it'll be easier for him to findhis footing as he moves forward instead of
being completely lost in the first placeYeah, so I know one of the challenges is I
(11:40):
believe they call it the peter principle.
Um that people are You know, promotedto their level of incompetence,
uh, and then this, you know, we'retalking about this for, for decades.
Um, do you find that now there's moreawareness of that companies are better
about training their managers as they makethe managers or is there, is this problem
getting worse because they're tryingto save money or a little bit of both?
(12:03):
Yeah.
What are you seeing right nowin the industry in terms of
managers being trained in thisvery unique skill of management?
Yes.
Very unique.
Uh, the Peter principle and It statesthat people really rise, essentially,
people rise to the level of their failure.
And when it comes to the Peter Principle,it's essentially all over the place.
(12:23):
When organizations invest in thelearning, into the development of their
leaders, those people really have abetter chance of thriving in their roles.
On the other hand, when organizations makebudget cuts and don't include training and
development, As part of their livelihood,that's where you'll see challenges where
(12:44):
leaders are in a sink or swim situation.
And if there's no investment in continuallearning, they're going to sink and it's
going to just create challenges for themto really be effective in what they do
and how they can serve their organization.
And are you seeing this?
Do you think there's more awarenessnow in the need for investing?
(13:05):
In management, I would say, generally,yes, because the value of leadership
development, we're seeing moreof a return on investment because
when leaders are getting trainedup and sharpen in their skills.
And what they can do, then yes, there isan opportunity for them to get better.
(13:27):
On the other hand, uh, if it's not apriority, of course, uh, these leaders
are going to sink and it's goingto be difficult for them to really
move forward with the organization.
Yeah.
So how would these concepts apply toentrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, us in
the, us working out of our basements onthe internet, um, yeah, do these apply,
(13:50):
or are these just corporate concepts?
Yeah.
Oh, these simply apply to solopreneursand entrepreneurs, because when it
comes to learning and development,when a solopreneur or entrepreneur
does not really take the time tounderstand the ins and outs of not
only their business, but themselves,that could create more challenges in
(14:12):
really understanding what to do next.
On the other hand, if a, if anentrepreneur really overcomes that
Peter principle and really applies.
More knowledge developmentand that growth.
Uh, there's just a better opportunity forthat entrepreneur to do greater things.
That makes a lot of sense.
(14:33):
And, and I imagine this also applieswith how they manage their teams as well.
Cause a lot of them don't have, youknow, nine to five teams, but they have
contractors and, and have to be a lotmore cognizant of wasting their time.
Um, I, I, I don't remember who it was.
I remember there was some, somespeakers talking about the fact
that anytime there's a meetingthat they, he has the managers
(14:54):
calculate what that meeting costs.
So, you know, what is the hourlyrate of the people in that room
and how long is it going to be?
And, you know, because if you gotsomeone making 100, 000 a year,
then they're, they're at, that's100, 000, 50 an hour, I think.
Um, and So, you know, if it's going tobe an hour and there's 10 people in the
meeting, well, then that's a 500 meeting.
(15:17):
Is that worth 500 to have that meeting?
Or could you have let some of the peoplekeep working and, you know, applying
this and this is a company where, youknow, upper management where these
people are making 100, 200, 300 an hour.
So he'd look at some of these meetingsand say, yeah, this meeting costs 4, 700.
And I want a 10X returnon everything we do.
(15:38):
So, is this meetinggoing to make us 47, 000?
No, go back to your desks.
Um, we're not having this meeting.
Uh, because, you know, so many people,they end up being bogged down in
meetings and can't get anything done.
They're doing it, but if you have acontractor, and they're there for an
hour for the meeting, you're paying them.
You know, if their hourly rate's100, you're actually writing them
a check for 100 for that meeting.
(15:58):
Uh, you learn to get a lotmore efficient with meetings.
That's right.
That's an excellent perspective,because when it comes to meeting, uh,
based on my experience, I've seen somany where it's just status report.
Oh, Jesper, what are you doing?
Great.
And then move to the next meeting.
Jesper, what's your progress on this task?
Great.
For meetings to be effective, itshould really focus on the purpose
(16:20):
And really, the, what the outcomesthey want in the projects that they're
working with, because again, if it'sjust status updates, you're really
just checking in and you're payingpeople just to see what they're doing.
On the other hand, if you're lookingat overall big picture that you're
(16:40):
striving for and seeing how close youare to getting there, that's where a
meeting makes a lot more value in termsof, What it can provide to the team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, one of my clients, there is an allhands meeting 30 minutes once a month.
And that all hands meeting is reporting.
Here's where we are with our goalsand here's where the company is.
(17:03):
And here's, um, you know,big picture kind of stuff.
Some, sometimes it's stuff that wedon't necessarily need to know, but,
you know, Hey, you guys want to see ourmarketing numbers for our last launch?
We're like, yeah, we want to see it.
And you know, we don'tneed to know that stuff.
But it's really cool to see that stuff.
And then you feel like you'relike, Oh, I was part of that.
Um, and so kind of shares the biggerpicture, but that's, I got, you
(17:24):
know, anything else is the peoplewho need to be there are there.
And otherwise, you know,everyone else is, is out of it.
Um, cause you're not paying someonejust for being in the office,
which is very, very powerful.
Um, so, so what besides, uh, youknow, remote and remote hybrid
home in the office, all that?
Yeah.
Um, what else are youseeing on the horizon?
(17:46):
That's that's affecting management,both in entrepreneurship and in.
Absolutely.
And it's the rise of artificialintelligence and its impact
on leadership and management.
And I would say that artificialintelligence, it is, it does have
amazing capacity and capabilities.
(18:07):
I don't believe it's going to replaceeffective leaders because when it
comes to artificial intelligence,what it depends on is prompting.
And when it comes to prompting, artificialintelligence is only as intelligence.
As the person using it.
So if you have a nine year old askingfor a golden table, a picture of a golden
(18:28):
table, that's all you're really goingto get, a picture of a golden table.
On the other hand, that applies,that same thing applies to leaders.
If a leader says, uh, what dayshould I pack a brown bag lunch?
Again, based on prompting, that'sthe only result you're going to get.
But for a leader to really be effective,it's to really understand what, uh,
(18:55):
they're striving for, because when itcomes to prompting, uh, unless a leader
really knows how to effectively find Um,A sort of programming or understanding
that really elevates their team.
That's only really whenartificial intelligence is really
(19:17):
going to be that effective.
Again, when it comes to artificialintelligence, it's only as good as the
prompting as the person applying it.
So as far as replacing leadership, it'snot there yet because effective leaders
have a certain way of looking at things.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Talking to someone recently was sayingthat with their company is it was a
(19:37):
tech company and they'd replace mostof their coders with technology, but
is basically a team of prompters.
So it was a team of managers andthe managers would manage the AI and
say, I need this built and they wouldhave to give the good instructions.
And so.
What they really needed was reallygood leaders, managers who knew what
(19:57):
they wanted so they could ask for itbecause they couldn't just throw sloppy
instructions at the staff and have themclean it up because, uh, so it needs
people who can manage the machines.
Um, but it's replacing the peoplewho are actually doing the work
and it's just managing those.
Um, so I definitely seethat, that trend occurring.
(20:18):
Um, and so, so what do you see happeningwith the people Who were in those jobs
who are now no longer there becausethe AI is doing that work for them.
That's right, because AI, especiallyhow it's progressing, it's been
able to automate certain things.
But at the same time, if we look atthe history of work, automation has
(20:39):
been around in some form or another.
Uh, so it's really a case ofUpgrading your skills to stay
ahead of the game, and that's truefor the past 200 years of work.
Uh, it's really, when, A newtechnology presents itself, doesn't
necessarily eliminate jobs, itjust ADATs how society works.
(21:04):
So for example, in the 1970s whenXerox came out, people had the fear,
oh my gosh, it's going to replaceso many admin jobs because the
printer is gonna print things for us.
Well, in reality, although itkind of offset those certain
admin jobs at the same time.
It created a new workforce oftechnology technicians who can
(21:27):
work on either upgrading ormaintaining these printer systems.
So, again, it does notnecessarily disrupt.
It just adjust how society works.
Absolutely.
Um, yes, it's been interesting to knowabout, you know, different concepts of
leadership and and management, how itapplies to different, different spaces.
Um, so, if people want to getin touch with you, what's the
(21:49):
best way for them to do that?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Feel free to visit me on my website.
It's familyconsulting.
com and you can also reachout to me on LinkedIn.
I absolutely love conversationsabout leadership, personal growth,
professional development, team building,workplace culture, you name it.
Feel free to reach out.
I love to have thosetypes of conversations.
(22:10):
Awesome.
That's family lead, like F A MI as in family lead consulting.
com.
And what's your closing thought?
And I would say overall, especiallyin today's world to be an effective
leader, embrace the idea of connectionand belonging, because I, as we've
seen in recent years, uh, this sense ofisolation for people to feel a greater
(22:33):
sense of productivity, engagement.
And motivation, especially in theworkplace is to be intent, more
intentional about reaching out to peopleand making them feel as part of your team.
Great.
Well, thank you, Jesperfor being a part of this.
It's been awesome.
Your final interview for Potapalooza.
So it's been a great day and Iappreciate you being a part of it.
(22:55):
Thank you, Michael.
It was great to be here today.
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