July 18, 2025 • 26 mins
Most new coaches never make it past their second year in business—and it’s not because they’re bad at coaching. In this episode, sales mentor Tessa Lynne Alburn joins Michael Whitehouse to reveal the truth the industry won’t tell you: coaching certification doesn’t prepare you for sales. If you’ve been told to just “raise your vibe,” build a website, or run a summit without learning to sell, this conversation is your wake-up call. Learn what actually works to enroll clients with authenticity, integrity, and consistency.
🎯 Connect with Tessa Lynne Alburn:
Website: https://withtessa.com
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🎙️ Connect with Michael Whitehouse:
Website: https://www.guywhoknowsaguy.com
Events: https://www.summits.fun
Get the 9 Foundational Questions of Business: https://www.guywhoknowsaguy.com/9qbook
Mentioned in this episode:
JV Connect, December 12-13, 2023
Join us for JV Connect, the dedicated networking event December 12th and 13th, 2023 https://www.jv-connect.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome once again to the guywho knows The Guy Podcast, the
Special Pot Appalooza edition.
My next guest here in the PotAuditorium is Tessa Lynn Alburn, and
the title that she brought in hereis, uh, something I'm excited about.
The industry won't tell you this, whymost coaches fail and what to do about
it, which, uh, if you're following me,you know, I've been talking about that
(00:22):
a bit in a few places, so I'm reallyexcited to talk to Tessa about it.
Ot, Tessa.
Tell us a little bit about yourselfand then let's jump right in.
Yes, sir. I have been in thetransformation industry since I
was 16 years old, and I actuallylike professionally where, where
I recognized myself, I. It'sbeen, uh, more than 25 years.
(00:43):
It took me a while to realize, oh,I'd been doing it since 16 when I
was helping women to recognize theirbeauty through makeup products, right?
So learning to sell at an early ageand then going through all kinds of
different, um, life situations and worksituations and adventure situations, and
(01:05):
eventually landing in the, the so-calledself-development, uh, personal growth.
Arena where I struggled like crazyto figure it all out, and I'm so glad
that I survived it because I havea lot to share and a lot to give to
those heart-centered leaders who arewondering what the heck has happened.
(01:28):
All right.
Well, so let's get it.
What, what is the super secret reason whymost of these new coaches are failing?
Well, I don't know if how much a secretit is anymore, but it's not talked about.
Right.
And there are two things.
I mean, I think marketing is one of them.
Marketing is a big problem andis not, um, taught very well or
(01:50):
it, and it's also presented assomething easy that you can do.
Just, you know, a few social posts.
But the other big one, the big nut.
Which accounts for someof these crazy statistics.
You know, one of them is that over 82%of new coaches fail within two years.
They're out of business andthere are other studies and other
(02:11):
statistics that support that.
And right now you can't even findthe original, um, report online.
It's been removed, but it was there.
And we also have ways to knowwhat studies are being done now.
And the fact is that at least 40%of coaches are not even having sales
(02:33):
calls within two years of theircertifications because they're lost.
They, you know, they bought intosomething, oh, I'm gonna contribute.
I'm gonna get this skill, and thenit's just, oh, it's my energy.
And it's not just your energy and it isnot just the law of attraction and that
(02:54):
stuff, and there's value in all of that.
I, I teach energy.
I've taught it for years.
Yeah, it matters, but it won'tget you clients if you don't know
how to have those conversations.
And you have specific.
Skill sets to back it up.
Hmm.
So is is some of the issue, they'rebeing distracted by all the other
(03:14):
things they're being sold, how torun a summit, how to write their
book, how to build their website.
I. And so, yes, they'reforgetting the basics.
They are for, they are not, noteven aware of the basics, right?
Well, yeah.
They never doing
basics in the first place.
Can't forget.
That's right.
They like
had a dream.
They leaned into it, and then thenext thing they're being sold this old
this, this is what you need, this iswhat you need, this is what you need.
And then the FOMO drives it and thecomp, the peer pressure drives it
(03:39):
and they wanna belong to something.
And what they haven't realized yet.
Many of them is that they're in adifferent world than where they came from.
For most of the, most of thesepeople are not serial entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And so they don't know what it means.
To have a, a business for the mostpart, and maybe that some of them
(04:02):
have had a brick and mortar or likethey're a health coach or something
because they were, they were a physicaltherapist and maybe that evolved, right?
But they don't know how to engage withpeople differently in the personal growth
space, how to sell something specific.
They're not niching down.
There's all kinds of problemsand what they're sold.
(04:23):
Is the shiniest object withthe biggest personality.
You know, there are peopleout there selling things that
have no substance whatsoever.
Um, and, and I've, I've boughta lot of those programs.
I know I made a lot of mistakes.
Mm-hmm.
I spent hundreds of thousands ofdollars and I paid for high-end scripts.
(04:44):
I've paid for all kinds of thingsand none of them are the answer.
Do they all offer something?
Yes.
But nobody who's got that.
You are in a startup, youcan't, you know, suddenly expend
another $50,000, like you said.
Mm-hmm.
And, and so they're just.
(05:05):
Peeling a way theydon't really understand.
They're sort of getting hit likewith this bulldozer when they come
out of, um, certification and thenthey're hitting in the real world.
It's not their coaching buddies thatthey're coaching anymore, or their friends
or their family, and they're talking toreal people and they're having to really
explain clearly who their clients are.
(05:28):
And so rather than shotgun.
You know, they need to niche.
There's another thing right there that'sin the marketing camp, but it's similar
to, um, actually having discovery calls.
It's definitely tied in, and so reallyknowing your niche and owning that is
an essential part of things as well.
Okay.
And so, so what is it that, soinstead of the shotgun, they shouldn't
(05:50):
be doing all these other things.
What, what is the thing that youfind is most commonly missing
that they need to be doing?
The most common thing that is missingis to get actual sales experience.
So if you haven't had any ofthat in your life, which is rare,
most people have had something.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you start with where, what youhave, and then you build on it.
(06:11):
But you And what's happening though is.
Coaches will start to have aconversation with somebody.
Let's say they finally got a lead,you know, and they're excited.
Maybe they're gonna do a littleworkshop and they've got a few people
coming to it, and then they havea phone call with the people who
came and they start coaching them.
They're not in a conversation todraw the client out into their
(06:36):
actual highest transformationthat's possible on that call.
They're scared.
They're scared of rejection.
They're sc, you know, so there's alot of inner work that needs to be
done, but they need actual toolsand they need their own scripts.
And I don't know anybodyteaching that except me.
(06:56):
Like how to design your own script.
And I'm an educator way back.
Um, I worked at Hoffman Instituteas graduate department director
creating hundreds of teleclassseminars before, you know, when that
was a thing, and, and helping themtransition into the virtual world.
Um.
(07:17):
Educating is key.
Like people need to understandthe whole sales relationship
and the value that you can bringbecause without it, they give up.
They're scared, it's uncomfortable.
They don't, they think they'resupposed to have a blanket answer
(07:37):
for everything that everyone asks.
Mm-hmm.
And that's not possible.
But what is possible is to learn how tolisten better and to not just be an empath
'cause there's too much mushiness inthat, but to hold a line, create a safe
space so the um, prospective client can.
(08:01):
Actually trust your integrityand also start revealing and, and
experiencing what might be in theirway, and you draw that out of them
so that you can show them how you.
Could support them in having thebreakthrough that they want, but
you have to know what that is.
(08:23):
You have to know what the breakthroughis, and you have to know clearly how you
can help them get there and get to thevision that they have for themselves.
So there are a lot of steps that gointo a sales conversation that people
are just totally unprepared for.
But it's not impossible.
(08:43):
It can happen.
Yeah.
And, and a key thing you said acouple times, um, you kind of alluded
to the fact that, that you can'tactually help them in that one call.
And I, I think, you know, is, it is,it's fine to tell coaches, you know,
you won't make any money if you don't.
Um, if you don't do it the right way, ifyou don't actually have a sales process.
(09:05):
But there's some part of many people thatrespond well, but if I can help people
or make money, I need to help people.
But the point is, you can't help them ifyou don't dig through a sales process.
'cause if you just give them that 25minutes of coaching instead of the proper
process, you're just painting the surface.
(09:27):
That's right.
And what they need.
It's just information.
Yep.
Right.
It's just like, oh, they justwatched a video on YouTube.
Mm-hmm.
How, how, how many times doesa YouTube video actually change
someone's life in the long haul?
Help them have new behaviors, newresults, consistently over time.
It's rare.
That's why coaching matters.
Like coaching, that's why it's a program.
(09:48):
You don't coach one-off sessions.
You, you could do.
A little bit of a taste test,but you don't wanna solve the big
stuff because you take away thepain that somebody's having that
drove them to show up at your door.
Mm-hmm.
To begin with.
And they're like, oh, that's good enough.
I'm good enough today.
And then, and then they go rightback into, oh, I'm in pain again.
(10:10):
I'm gonna do my thing.
I'm gonna numb out.
I'm gonna distract.
Oh, that didn't reallyhelp me go into that coach.
Oh, it didn't really help me to do this.
There's something wrong with me.
I'm broken.
I'm broken.
And that's where a lot ofpeople wind up in the world.
Mm-hmm.
And they do need support, but we'vegotta show up and give it to them.
We've gotta give them support, not fixes.
Yep.
So what are the key elementsof the sales call that's
(10:32):
different from a coaching call?
Key element is don't coach number one.
It's not coaching, it'sdrawing out process.
Another element is to allow the painto be there when it shows up or.
(10:55):
In some cases, you've gotta know whento be the catalyst to say, this is
really the problem that you're missing.
And you know, when that happens,it's so profound for people.
They're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea.
'cause they think they know what's wrong.
(11:16):
Mm-hmm.
And we have to hold thatspace for them until they can.
Walk to the door and peek inbecause it's scary for them.
So we need to hold that spaceeven more sacred than a coaching
call, if you will, right?
Because you're building trust.
It's a, might be the first in-person.
(11:38):
Face-to-face conversation orvirtual face-to-face conversations
you've had with that person.
And you also need to knowmore about them, right?
You've hopefully been intouch with them in some way.
They've heard you on a podcast or fiveor, and you've got qualifying materials
like they come into your funnel insome way and have contact with you
(12:03):
to build that know, like, and trust.
But it's really.
Your integrity that is gonna make a hugedifference is if they get that little, eh
of, oh, this is just, you know, she justwants to make money, or that doesn't,
they feel like you don't get them.
(12:24):
Mm-hmm.
You only have a few minutes.
Right.
They will, they will just checkout and it's gonna be really
hard to get that trust back.
So it's being open.
Not having all the answers, beinghonest and truthful within yourself
and with them about what you offer.
(12:44):
And if you really can't help them,you need to be ready to say no.
Mm-hmm.
Now, when you say drawing out,what does that look like in
a, in a coaching conversation?
I. Or in a sales, sorry,not a coaching conversation.
Yeah, in a sales coach conversation.
Not a, in an,
in an offer conversation.
Yes.
Yeah, so you can, you know, I sometimescall it an exploratory conversation.
(13:05):
'cause it is, it's definitely exploration.
It's a lot of exploring and gettingunder the surface quickly with diag,
like a diagnosis or an analysis.
As the coach, as theleader of the call, you.
Want to maintain the most healthyboundaries you've had on any call,
(13:27):
and each person is different.
It is not like teaching a tool, here'smy tool, and this is what you do.
It is not like that at all.
It's like every word they say, everyfeeling or nuance or whatever's
going on with them physicallythat you can take in is all
information that's going to support.
(13:49):
The, the building of that connectionbetween the two of you, and it's gotta
be an honest, authentic connection.
It can't be bullshit like you tellthem, oh, I love all my clients.
I'm gonna love you too.
I want the best.
Yeah, no, it you, I've heard it.
I work for people like that.
And you, you really.
(14:12):
Need to access your true care somuch that you will not fix them
even when they're begging for it.
So, well, I thought youwere gonna tell me this.
Actually what I said, what, whatthis call is for is blah, blah,
(14:33):
blah, you know, so gently showing up.
Never in con, my style isnever in conflict, right?
I do know coaches who will say,well, the thing that's showing
up right now, you know, that's asignal about your energy and that's
what you're gonna need to address.
Those aren't my clients, and I wouldnever speak to anybody like that.
(14:55):
Mm-hmm.
I want them to know theyare actually safe with me.
Everything they say and do,and all of it is acceptable.
And they can choose to change things ifthey're willing to trust the process.
(15:16):
And so I, that's the, the thingthat you're working at, getting
to, like helping them understandthere is a process mm-hmm.
And what that process is withoutover explaining it to them
in a 25 minute conversation.
Yep.
And you actually brought up a, areally good point, and it's, um.
I haven't thought about in a while, butdefinitely one of my, my pet peeves is
(15:37):
that there's, there's sales techniquesand there's coaching techniques.
And coaching techniques canpotentially be effective sales
techniques if you have no morals.
And so bringing up things like,oh, it sounds like you have a
money block, which is why you'reafraid of giving me your money.
That's.
(15:58):
Manipulative.
Yeah, totally.
From face.
I can see you have the samereaction to that concept.
I do.
Yeah.
But yeah, we, we hear that all the timeand I've, I've been in events and, and
on calls where they've tried to do that.
And, uh, I'll never forget, I was, Iwas at a three day event and at the
end of day two, I'm talking to, tothe, the coach at the bar and, you
know, I'm big into intuition and, andconnecting to higher wisdom and whatnot.
(16:19):
And now I was there as a JV partnerto potentially refer people to,
I wasn't even there as a client.
Um, but yeah, I'm still there.
I'm still listening.
And he says, well, you know, sowhat do you think of the program?
Do you think it interests you?
Like, keep mind, I'mnot there as a prospect.
Yes.
And I said, no.
I tap my intuition.
It says no.
So he's like, oh, youdon't know your intuition.
That's just your gut.
(16:39):
And because you haven't made amillion dollars, it's not tuned yet.
And I'm like, and we're done here.
We are.
Yeah.
That's a big, that is a big red flag.
You know, that's like cult behavior.
Yeah.
And um, there is a lotof that out there, sadly.
Mm-hmm.
Um, working on the emotionallevel to make people feel.
Bad about themselves or like,or that they know nothing.
(17:03):
Basically.
Very disempowering.
Yeah.
To somebody.
Yeah.
So, you know, the coaching industrywants people to be empowered.
It's one of the basictenets of becoming a coach.
Mm-hmm.
And, and the industry itself is so focusedon being a good coach, that they don't
have the bandwidth and possibly theskillset to teach people how to sell.
(17:26):
Yeah.
And so selling.
Has been seen perceived as like thissecret thing that Aer a few people have
the gift and a few people this and afew people, like I had a, I had a coach.
I thought he had a gift 'cause he,oh, I'll never be able to coach.
I'll never be able to sell like him.
You know, he is charismatic,this, that, or the other.
(17:48):
This is really common thinkingthat you don't have those kinds of.
Personality traits or skillsand how could you do it?
Uh, how could you flirt with people?
Like whatever it is.
And I have learned that ithas nothing to do with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's just so, so it's about stayingin the game and learning those skills.
(18:09):
As hard as it might be, asuncomfortable as it might be, but
giving yourself really the, the realopportunity to lean into your own
growth, which might be around sales.
And, and of course keything is I said doing it.
Yes.
Getting on sales callsfollowing the process.
Yes.
(18:29):
And, um, and I, I dunno aboutyou, I've never known anyone
who died on a sales call.
Have you ever met someone who was, was I
never have met a personwho died on a sales call.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, they're all so unique.
Um, and honestly, over the years,and I've had thousands of them.
(18:50):
They're, each one is slightly different.
You know, it's definitely different.
Like, I don't know if somebody's gonnasay, yeah, I'm banging the table.
Uh, let me, let me shakethe camera a little bit.
I don't know if they're gonna say, yes,there are certain things that people do.
Typically when they're leaning in,but it is not a hundred percent.
(19:13):
Mm-hmm.
And so I've got to, one has tosuspend whatever you've got coming
in, whatever belief system you havecoming in that's gonna put a filter at
between you and block the energy flow.
And so you do wanna be.
I think Derek Rydel talks about,you know, having an open channel.
(19:34):
Well, that's great.
Yeah, you do want that open channel,but you also wanna be able to meet
that person with something specificthat is going to help them get over
that bridge to where they wanna be.
And without offendingthem, without shaming them.
I mean, there's so much.
(19:54):
Um, shame and any kind of personaldevelopment, and especially if,
if you're in the money arena.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there's just lots and lots of it.
I've, I've met with coaches who cameto me and just, you know, you can't
tell anybody who that I came to you.
I, I just can't admit, I'mfeeling like a fraud in my
(20:16):
business, like successful people.
Mm-hmm.
And.
That, that's just indicative of a deeperissue, and I think we're all in our
world today, learning to be a little moretransparent with finances, with, you know,
and releasing shame about what we, whatwe thought we were supposed to do, and
(20:39):
what we thought we were supposed to be.
Mm-hmm.
But it takes sales, takes consistency.
It takes that showing up, havingthose conversations on a regular
basis, and learning each time.
And then adjusting eachtime, what did I learn?
Right?
Finding a way to debrief, and that'sone of the things I teach people,
(21:00):
is how to debrief yourself after aconversation so you can improve it.
And that's how I.
Basically taught myself to findthe things that were missing
for me in sales conversations.
So I could sell four and fivefigure programs and packages
(21:21):
on a consistent basis.
And, and very really powerful point theretoo, around the like, what is success?
And um, I remember early on inmy, my business, I was talking to
someone about how I wasn't, you know,didn't have a lot of money and I.
You know, at the time I was focusingmostly on teaching networking,
which is secondary to money.
(21:43):
Like you network so you can get moreconnections so you can make money.
And so I, I mentioned like, youknow, I, I don't want people to
know I don't have money becauseyou know, they wanna trust me.
And he said, do you teachpeople how to make money?
And I said, well, no, Iteach 'em how to network.
And he says, so why does itmatter if you have money?
You're not teaching 'em to make money.
Now the coach who says, I teach youhow to build your six figure program.
(22:06):
Better have a six figure program.
Better have a six figure income.
Yes.
Yes.
Because I have met more than one, uh,coach who's, you know, last year made
$41,000 and they're gonna teach youhow to build your six figure program.
Yeah.
But, but you know, I think that's,people need to realize is if you teach
people how to eliminate their gut painor how to release trauma or how to
(22:29):
network better and you don't have a lotof money in the bank, well that's fine.
Have you released your traumaor eliminated your gut pain?
Or do you have a big network?
Like that's what's like the,
that's the relevant information.
Yeah.
Prove the
putting for me, for me islike, I have a big network.
Who do you need to meet?
I can prove it.
No, a lot of money because, well,I haven't cashed in that network.
I'm not gonna teach you howto cash in your network.
(22:49):
I'm gonna teach you howto build your network.
And that's what I teach.
But yeah, that integrity of youhave to, but when you realize that's
the thing, um, I think that that's.
That that can help a lot ofpeople to realize that it's not
everything is measured in moneymuch as we'd like to believe it is.
Exactly, and that's a challengein the, this soft skill industry.
(23:11):
Mm-hmm.
You know, we've gotta be able to be reallyclear and so that goes to marketing and
niche and messaging and all of that stuff.
That's another side of things.
But I think the thing that Kewill keep, does keep people in
the business is making some money.
They need to know that they cando it at least a couple of times
(23:32):
so they can get back up and doit again when it's not working.
Yeah.
Otherwise, you know, they'regonna be fizzling out.
Yeah, no, that, that's huge.
I, I keep a, a runningtally of, of my revenues.
Um, excellent.
It basically part of amanifestation process really.
Uh, every time I make any amount of money,I go to the whiteboard and I write it.
So, yeah, someone send me $3, I'm like,
(23:53):
there.
That's right.
Whatever it is.
And, and so sometimes you be like,oh, things aren't really going well.
They're not really holding together.
I look up and I say.
But that number's on thewhiteboard and somebody put it
up there, and I think it was me.
'cause that number's pretty big.
I don't know how it gotthere, but there it is.
And you know, you, you slip back intothat, into that mindset of like, oh,
oh, somebody said no, or the thingfell through and things are going
(24:16):
good, but the green numbers on thewhiteboard are still pretty big.
Yeah.
How about that?
Right?
It, yes, it, it helps you to actuallysee greater truth and consistency.
I would love to tell people howto, uh, reach me and I was about
to ask how people can reach you.
Well, I'm look at us.
Great.
How about that simpatico?
(24:37):
How do people reach you?
They can go to with tessa.com andI am rolling out some new products
to help them improve their salesconversations and see success and have
that confidence that comes from knowingtheir fully and integrity and they're
(24:58):
connecting with people and, and then.
From there.
If people wanna join a five week program,then that's possibility, et cetera.
I'm also on Facebook.
You can find me there, TessaAuburn, and on LinkedIn.
So there are various waysto get ahold of me, Michael.
Alright, that's with Tessa, WITH.
TESS a.com where you can findall the stuff Tessa is doing now.
(25:24):
And I imagine if somebody goesthere two years from now, they'll
find all the stuff you're doing.
Exactly now when they're listening.
I've been around.
That's right.
It's always up.
It's being updated right now andalways is because we all change.
We all learn and grow and we lean in.
If we.
We either stop our growth or, andwe cave in or we switch directions,
or we lean into what's next.
(25:47):
So thank you for having me.
Yes.
It's been great to have you on here.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
My pleasure.
I.
Welcome once again to the guywho knows The Guy Podcast, the
Special Pot Appalooza edition.
My next guest here in the PotAuditorium is Tessa Lynn Alburn, and
the title that she brought in hereis, uh, something I'm excited about.
The industry won't tell you this, whymost coaches fail and what to do about
it, which, uh, if you're following me,you know, I've been talking about that
(00:22):
a bit in a few places, so I'm reallyexcited to talk to Tessa about it.
Ot, Tessa.
Tell us a little bit about yourselfand then let's jump right in.
Yes, sir. I have been in thetransformation industry since I
was 16 years old, and I actuallylike professionally where, where
I recognized myself, I. It'sbeen, uh, more than 25 years.
(00:43):
It took me a while to realize, oh,I'd been doing it since 16 when I
was helping women to recognize theirbeauty through makeup products, right?
So learning to sell at an early ageand then going through all kinds of
different, um, life situations and worksituations and adventure situations, and
(01:05):
eventually landing in the, the so-calledself-development, uh, personal growth.
Arena where I struggled like crazyto figure it all out, and I'm so glad
that I survived it because I havea lot to share and a lot to give to
those heart-centered leaders who arewondering what the heck has happened.
(01:28):
All right.
Well, so let's get it.
What, what is the super secret reason whymost of these new coaches are failing?
Well, I don't know if how much a secretit is anymore, but it's not talked about.
Right.
And there are two things.
I mean, I think marketing is one of them.
Marketing is a big problem andis not, um, taught very well or
(01:50):
it, and it's also presented assomething easy that you can do.
Just, you know, a few social posts.
But the other big one, the big nut.
Which accounts for someof these crazy statistics.
You know, one of them is that over 82%of new coaches fail within two years.
They're out of business andthere are other studies and other
(02:11):
statistics that support that.
And right now you can't even findthe original, um, report online.
It's been removed, but it was there.
And we also have ways to knowwhat studies are being done now.
And the fact is that at least 40%of coaches are not even having sales
(02:33):
calls within two years of theircertifications because they're lost.
They, you know, they bought intosomething, oh, I'm gonna contribute.
I'm gonna get this skill, and thenit's just, oh, it's my energy.
And it's not just your energy and it isnot just the law of attraction and that
(02:54):
stuff, and there's value in all of that.
I, I teach energy.
I've taught it for years.
Yeah, it matters, but it won'tget you clients if you don't know
how to have those conversations.
And you have specific.
Skill sets to back it up.
Hmm.
So is is some of the issue, they'rebeing distracted by all the other
(03:14):
things they're being sold, how torun a summit, how to write their
book, how to build their website.
I. And so, yes, they'reforgetting the basics.
They are for, they are not, noteven aware of the basics, right?
Well, yeah.
They never doing
basics in the first place.
Can't forget.
That's right.
They like
had a dream.
They leaned into it, and then thenext thing they're being sold this old
this, this is what you need, this iswhat you need, this is what you need.
And then the FOMO drives it and thecomp, the peer pressure drives it
(03:39):
and they wanna belong to something.
And what they haven't realized yet.
Many of them is that they're in adifferent world than where they came from.
For most of the, most of thesepeople are not serial entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And so they don't know what it means.
To have a, a business for the mostpart, and maybe that some of them
(04:02):
have had a brick and mortar or likethey're a health coach or something
because they were, they were a physicaltherapist and maybe that evolved, right?
But they don't know how to engage withpeople differently in the personal growth
space, how to sell something specific.
They're not niching down.
There's all kinds of problemsand what they're sold.
(04:23):
Is the shiniest object withthe biggest personality.
You know, there are peopleout there selling things that
have no substance whatsoever.
Um, and, and I've, I've boughta lot of those programs.
I know I made a lot of mistakes.
Mm-hmm.
I spent hundreds of thousands ofdollars and I paid for high-end scripts.
(04:44):
I've paid for all kinds of thingsand none of them are the answer.
Do they all offer something?
Yes.
But nobody who's got that.
You are in a startup, youcan't, you know, suddenly expend
another $50,000, like you said.
Mm-hmm.
And, and so they're just.
(05:05):
Peeling a way theydon't really understand.
They're sort of getting hit likewith this bulldozer when they come
out of, um, certification and thenthey're hitting in the real world.
It's not their coaching buddies thatthey're coaching anymore, or their friends
or their family, and they're talking toreal people and they're having to really
explain clearly who their clients are.
(05:28):
And so rather than shotgun.
You know, they need to niche.
There's another thing right there that'sin the marketing camp, but it's similar
to, um, actually having discovery calls.
It's definitely tied in, and so reallyknowing your niche and owning that is
an essential part of things as well.
Okay.
And so, so what is it that, soinstead of the shotgun, they shouldn't
(05:50):
be doing all these other things.
What, what is the thing that youfind is most commonly missing
that they need to be doing?
The most common thing that is missingis to get actual sales experience.
So if you haven't had any ofthat in your life, which is rare,
most people have had something.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you start with where, what youhave, and then you build on it.
(06:11):
But you And what's happening though is.
Coaches will start to have aconversation with somebody.
Let's say they finally got a lead,you know, and they're excited.
Maybe they're gonna do a littleworkshop and they've got a few people
coming to it, and then they havea phone call with the people who
came and they start coaching them.
They're not in a conversation todraw the client out into their
(06:36):
actual highest transformationthat's possible on that call.
They're scared.
They're scared of rejection.
They're sc, you know, so there's alot of inner work that needs to be
done, but they need actual toolsand they need their own scripts.
And I don't know anybodyteaching that except me.
(06:56):
Like how to design your own script.
And I'm an educator way back.
Um, I worked at Hoffman Instituteas graduate department director
creating hundreds of teleclassseminars before, you know, when that
was a thing, and, and helping themtransition into the virtual world.
Um.
(07:17):
Educating is key.
Like people need to understandthe whole sales relationship
and the value that you can bringbecause without it, they give up.
They're scared, it's uncomfortable.
They don't, they think they'resupposed to have a blanket answer
(07:37):
for everything that everyone asks.
Mm-hmm.
And that's not possible.
But what is possible is to learn how tolisten better and to not just be an empath
'cause there's too much mushiness inthat, but to hold a line, create a safe
space so the um, prospective client can.
(08:01):
Actually trust your integrityand also start revealing and, and
experiencing what might be in theirway, and you draw that out of them
so that you can show them how you.
Could support them in having thebreakthrough that they want, but
you have to know what that is.
(08:23):
You have to know what the breakthroughis, and you have to know clearly how you
can help them get there and get to thevision that they have for themselves.
So there are a lot of steps that gointo a sales conversation that people
are just totally unprepared for.
But it's not impossible.
(08:43):
It can happen.
Yeah.
And, and a key thing you said acouple times, um, you kind of alluded
to the fact that, that you can'tactually help them in that one call.
And I, I think, you know, is, it is,it's fine to tell coaches, you know,
you won't make any money if you don't.
Um, if you don't do it the right way, ifyou don't actually have a sales process.
(09:05):
But there's some part of many people thatrespond well, but if I can help people
or make money, I need to help people.
But the point is, you can't help them ifyou don't dig through a sales process.
'cause if you just give them that 25minutes of coaching instead of the proper
process, you're just painting the surface.
(09:27):
That's right.
And what they need.
It's just information.
Yep.
Right.
It's just like, oh, they justwatched a video on YouTube.
Mm-hmm.
How, how, how many times doesa YouTube video actually change
someone's life in the long haul?
Help them have new behaviors, newresults, consistently over time.
It's rare.
That's why coaching matters.
Like coaching, that's why it's a program.
(09:48):
You don't coach one-off sessions.
You, you could do.
A little bit of a taste test,but you don't wanna solve the big
stuff because you take away thepain that somebody's having that
drove them to show up at your door.
Mm-hmm.
To begin with.
And they're like, oh, that's good enough.
I'm good enough today.
And then, and then they go rightback into, oh, I'm in pain again.
(10:10):
I'm gonna do my thing.
I'm gonna numb out.
I'm gonna distract.
Oh, that didn't reallyhelp me go into that coach.
Oh, it didn't really help me to do this.
There's something wrong with me.
I'm broken.
I'm broken.
And that's where a lot ofpeople wind up in the world.
Mm-hmm.
And they do need support, but we'vegotta show up and give it to them.
We've gotta give them support, not fixes.
Yep.
So what are the key elementsof the sales call that's
(10:32):
different from a coaching call?
Key element is don't coach number one.
It's not coaching, it'sdrawing out process.
Another element is to allow the painto be there when it shows up or.
(10:55):
In some cases, you've gotta know whento be the catalyst to say, this is
really the problem that you're missing.
And you know, when that happens,it's so profound for people.
They're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea.
'cause they think they know what's wrong.
(11:16):
Mm-hmm.
And we have to hold thatspace for them until they can.
Walk to the door and peek inbecause it's scary for them.
So we need to hold that spaceeven more sacred than a coaching
call, if you will, right?
Because you're building trust.
It's a, might be the first in-person.
(11:38):
Face-to-face conversation orvirtual face-to-face conversations
you've had with that person.
And you also need to knowmore about them, right?
You've hopefully been intouch with them in some way.
They've heard you on a podcast or fiveor, and you've got qualifying materials
like they come into your funnel insome way and have contact with you
(12:03):
to build that know, like, and trust.
But it's really.
Your integrity that is gonna make a hugedifference is if they get that little, eh
of, oh, this is just, you know, she justwants to make money, or that doesn't,
they feel like you don't get them.
(12:24):
Mm-hmm.
You only have a few minutes.
Right.
They will, they will just checkout and it's gonna be really
hard to get that trust back.
So it's being open.
Not having all the answers, beinghonest and truthful within yourself
and with them about what you offer.
(12:44):
And if you really can't help them,you need to be ready to say no.
Mm-hmm.
Now, when you say drawing out,what does that look like in
a, in a coaching conversation?
I. Or in a sales, sorry,not a coaching conversation.
Yeah, in a sales coach conversation.
Not a, in an,
in an offer conversation.
Yes.
Yeah, so you can, you know, I sometimescall it an exploratory conversation.
(13:05):
'cause it is, it's definitely exploration.
It's a lot of exploring and gettingunder the surface quickly with diag,
like a diagnosis or an analysis.
As the coach, as theleader of the call, you.
Want to maintain the most healthyboundaries you've had on any call,
(13:27):
and each person is different.
It is not like teaching a tool, here'smy tool, and this is what you do.
It is not like that at all.
It's like every word they say, everyfeeling or nuance or whatever's
going on with them physicallythat you can take in is all
information that's going to support.
(13:49):
The, the building of that connectionbetween the two of you, and it's gotta
be an honest, authentic connection.
It can't be bullshit like you tellthem, oh, I love all my clients.
I'm gonna love you too.
I want the best.
Yeah, no, it you, I've heard it.
I work for people like that.
And you, you really.
(14:12):
Need to access your true care somuch that you will not fix them
even when they're begging for it.
So, well, I thought youwere gonna tell me this.
Actually what I said, what, whatthis call is for is blah, blah,
(14:33):
blah, you know, so gently showing up.
Never in con, my style isnever in conflict, right?
I do know coaches who will say,well, the thing that's showing
up right now, you know, that's asignal about your energy and that's
what you're gonna need to address.
Those aren't my clients, and I wouldnever speak to anybody like that.
(14:55):
Mm-hmm.
I want them to know theyare actually safe with me.
Everything they say and do,and all of it is acceptable.
And they can choose to change things ifthey're willing to trust the process.
(15:16):
And so I, that's the, the thingthat you're working at, getting
to, like helping them understandthere is a process mm-hmm.
And what that process is withoutover explaining it to them
in a 25 minute conversation.
Yep.
And you actually brought up a, areally good point, and it's, um.
I haven't thought about in a while, butdefinitely one of my, my pet peeves is
(15:37):
that there's, there's sales techniquesand there's coaching techniques.
And coaching techniques canpotentially be effective sales
techniques if you have no morals.
And so bringing up things like,oh, it sounds like you have a
money block, which is why you'reafraid of giving me your money.
That's.
(15:58):
Manipulative.
Yeah, totally.
From face.
I can see you have the samereaction to that concept.
I do.
Yeah.
But yeah, we, we hear that all the timeand I've, I've been in events and, and
on calls where they've tried to do that.
And, uh, I'll never forget, I was, Iwas at a three day event and at the
end of day two, I'm talking to, tothe, the coach at the bar and, you
know, I'm big into intuition and, andconnecting to higher wisdom and whatnot.
(16:19):
And now I was there as a JV partnerto potentially refer people to,
I wasn't even there as a client.
Um, but yeah, I'm still there.
I'm still listening.
And he says, well, you know, sowhat do you think of the program?
Do you think it interests you?
Like, keep mind, I'mnot there as a prospect.
Yes.
And I said, no.
I tap my intuition.
It says no.
So he's like, oh, youdon't know your intuition.
That's just your gut.
(16:39):
And because you haven't made amillion dollars, it's not tuned yet.
And I'm like, and we're done here.
We are.
Yeah.
That's a big, that is a big red flag.
You know, that's like cult behavior.
Yeah.
And um, there is a lotof that out there, sadly.
Mm-hmm.
Um, working on the emotionallevel to make people feel.
Bad about themselves or like,or that they know nothing.
(17:03):
Basically.
Very disempowering.
Yeah.
To somebody.
Yeah.
So, you know, the coaching industrywants people to be empowered.
It's one of the basictenets of becoming a coach.
Mm-hmm.
And, and the industry itself is so focusedon being a good coach, that they don't
have the bandwidth and possibly theskillset to teach people how to sell.
(17:26):
Yeah.
And so selling.
Has been seen perceived as like thissecret thing that Aer a few people have
the gift and a few people this and afew people, like I had a, I had a coach.
I thought he had a gift 'cause he,oh, I'll never be able to coach.
I'll never be able to sell like him.
You know, he is charismatic,this, that, or the other.
(17:48):
This is really common thinkingthat you don't have those kinds of.
Personality traits or skillsand how could you do it?
Uh, how could you flirt with people?
Like whatever it is.
And I have learned that ithas nothing to do with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's just so, so it's about stayingin the game and learning those skills.
(18:09):
As hard as it might be, asuncomfortable as it might be, but
giving yourself really the, the realopportunity to lean into your own
growth, which might be around sales.
And, and of course keything is I said doing it.
Yes.
Getting on sales callsfollowing the process.
Yes.
(18:29):
And, um, and I, I dunno aboutyou, I've never known anyone
who died on a sales call.
Have you ever met someone who was, was I
never have met a personwho died on a sales call.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, they're all so unique.
Um, and honestly, over the years,and I've had thousands of them.
(18:50):
They're, each one is slightly different.
You know, it's definitely different.
Like, I don't know if somebody's gonnasay, yeah, I'm banging the table.
Uh, let me, let me shakethe camera a little bit.
I don't know if they're gonna say, yes,there are certain things that people do.
Typically when they're leaning in,but it is not a hundred percent.
(19:13):
Mm-hmm.
And so I've got to, one has tosuspend whatever you've got coming
in, whatever belief system you havecoming in that's gonna put a filter at
between you and block the energy flow.
And so you do wanna be.
I think Derek Rydel talks about,you know, having an open channel.
(19:34):
Well, that's great.
Yeah, you do want that open channel,but you also wanna be able to meet
that person with something specificthat is going to help them get over
that bridge to where they wanna be.
And without offendingthem, without shaming them.
I mean, there's so much.
(19:54):
Um, shame and any kind of personaldevelopment, and especially if,
if you're in the money arena.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there's just lots and lots of it.
I've, I've met with coaches who cameto me and just, you know, you can't
tell anybody who that I came to you.
I, I just can't admit, I'mfeeling like a fraud in my
(20:16):
business, like successful people.
Mm-hmm.
And.
That, that's just indicative of a deeperissue, and I think we're all in our
world today, learning to be a little moretransparent with finances, with, you know,
and releasing shame about what we, whatwe thought we were supposed to do, and
(20:39):
what we thought we were supposed to be.
Mm-hmm.
But it takes sales, takes consistency.
It takes that showing up, havingthose conversations on a regular
basis, and learning each time.
And then adjusting eachtime, what did I learn?
Right?
Finding a way to debrief, and that'sone of the things I teach people,
(21:00):
is how to debrief yourself after aconversation so you can improve it.
And that's how I.
Basically taught myself to findthe things that were missing
for me in sales conversations.
So I could sell four and fivefigure programs and packages
(21:21):
on a consistent basis.
And, and very really powerful point theretoo, around the like, what is success?
And um, I remember early on inmy, my business, I was talking to
someone about how I wasn't, you know,didn't have a lot of money and I.
You know, at the time I was focusingmostly on teaching networking,
which is secondary to money.
(21:43):
Like you network so you can get moreconnections so you can make money.
And so I, I mentioned like, youknow, I, I don't want people to
know I don't have money becauseyou know, they wanna trust me.
And he said, do you teachpeople how to make money?
And I said, well, no, Iteach 'em how to network.
And he says, so why does itmatter if you have money?
You're not teaching 'em to make money.
Now the coach who says, I teach youhow to build your six figure program.
(22:06):
Better have a six figure program.
Better have a six figure income.
Yes.
Yes.
Because I have met more than one, uh,coach who's, you know, last year made
$41,000 and they're gonna teach youhow to build your six figure program.
Yeah.
But, but you know, I think that's,people need to realize is if you teach
people how to eliminate their gut painor how to release trauma or how to
(22:29):
network better and you don't have a lotof money in the bank, well that's fine.
Have you released your traumaor eliminated your gut pain?
Or do you have a big network?
Like that's what's like the,
that's the relevant information.
Yeah.
Prove the
putting for me, for me islike, I have a big network.
Who do you need to meet?
I can prove it.
No, a lot of money because, well,I haven't cashed in that network.
I'm not gonna teach you howto cash in your network.
(22:49):
I'm gonna teach you howto build your network.
And that's what I teach.
But yeah, that integrity of youhave to, but when you realize that's
the thing, um, I think that that's.
That that can help a lot ofpeople to realize that it's not
everything is measured in moneymuch as we'd like to believe it is.
Exactly, and that's a challengein the, this soft skill industry.
(23:11):
Mm-hmm.
You know, we've gotta be able to be reallyclear and so that goes to marketing and
niche and messaging and all of that stuff.
That's another side of things.
But I think the thing that Kewill keep, does keep people in
the business is making some money.
They need to know that they cando it at least a couple of times
(23:32):
so they can get back up and doit again when it's not working.
Yeah.
Otherwise, you know, they'regonna be fizzling out.
Yeah, no, that, that's huge.
I, I keep a, a runningtally of, of my revenues.
Um, excellent.
It basically part of amanifestation process really.
Uh, every time I make any amount of money,I go to the whiteboard and I write it.
So, yeah, someone send me $3, I'm like,
(23:53):
there.
That's right.
Whatever it is.
And, and so sometimes you be like,oh, things aren't really going well.
They're not really holding together.
I look up and I say.
But that number's on thewhiteboard and somebody put it
up there, and I think it was me.
'cause that number's pretty big.
I don't know how it gotthere, but there it is.
And you know, you, you slip back intothat, into that mindset of like, oh,
oh, somebody said no, or the thingfell through and things are going
(24:16):
good, but the green numbers on thewhiteboard are still pretty big.
Yeah.
How about that?
Right?
It, yes, it, it helps you to actuallysee greater truth and consistency.
I would love to tell people howto, uh, reach me and I was about
to ask how people can reach you.
Well, I'm look at us.
Great.
How about that simpatico?
(24:37):
How do people reach you?
They can go to with tessa.com andI am rolling out some new products
to help them improve their salesconversations and see success and have
that confidence that comes from knowingtheir fully and integrity and they're
(24:58):
connecting with people and, and then.
From there.
If people wanna join a five week program,then that's possibility, et cetera.
I'm also on Facebook.
You can find me there, TessaAuburn, and on LinkedIn.
So there are various waysto get ahold of me, Michael.
Alright, that's with Tessa, WITH.
TESS a.com where you can findall the stuff Tessa is doing now.
(25:24):
And I imagine if somebody goesthere two years from now, they'll
find all the stuff you're doing.
Exactly now when they're listening.
I've been around.
That's right.
It's always up.
It's being updated right now andalways is because we all change.
We all learn and grow and we lean in.
If we.
We either stop our growth or, andwe cave in or we switch directions,
or we lean into what's next.
(25:47):
So thank you for having me.
Yes.
It's been great to have you on here.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
My pleasure.
I.
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