August 4, 2025 • 63 mins
BTC team member and educator @vividsandbalayage shares her journey from struggling in cosmetology school to becoming a successful hairstylist and content creator. We discuss the importance of investing time into social media and doing free hair in building her clientele, the challenges of transitioning from commission salons to independent work, and the significance of authenticity in the beauty industry.
This Week's Topics:
• Early Career and Cosmetology School Challenges
• Transitioning from Supercuts to Full-Service Salons
• Building a Clientele and Embracing Social Media
• Current Work and Balancing Content Creation
• The Importance of Social Media in the Hair Industry
• Navigating the Transition to Independence
• The Importance of Pricing Strategies
• Understanding Client Perceptions on Pricing
• Leveraging Social Media for Professional Growth
• The Balance of Authenticity and Professionalism
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi Steph, how are you?
I'm good, how are you?
I'm doing great.
So this is Steph, not Stephanie Brown, but she told me to call her Steph.
So for the rest of the conversation, she is Steph.
You're a Massachusetts hairdresser who focuses on color and you're a member of the BTCteam.
(00:20):
And it looks like you're a Cosmo Prof ambassador, anything else?
Any other accolades that I'm missing?
So those are definitely my major ones.
And on top of that, I'm a full-time hairstylist.
I love creating content.
And I just feel very fortunate to be in this industry.
You're so good at creating content.
(00:43):
The cool thing about content, and this is maybe just so obvious to the audience, but I'mgonna say it anyway.
The cool thing about it is that everyone has their own personality as part of what they'recreating, right?
And it's, you know, I peruse your content mostly through Instagram, and it's just so you.
(01:07):
You know, there's just so much of your personality that comes out and it's so, it's justgood.
And it's just entertaining.
You're so educational and your, your personality comes out, your voice comes out and, Isee why people like it.
And so for the list, I'm going through this, not to butter you up, cause I don't need tobutter you up, but just for the listeners to understand who may not know you.
(01:35):
uh
really encouraging everybody to go to your Instagram, Vivis and Ballyaj and check you out.
But it just, you know, I've been doing these episodes for seven plus years.
I think we're actually, let's see, I started in August of 2017.
So I'm actually heading towards eight years doing this and 400 plus episodes.
(02:02):
And I've seen a lot of hairdresser, you know, accounts.
(02:24):
I've definitely used that as a tactic on a way to attract my desired clientele.
I actually started at Super Pod.
which I always tell people that I know it's known for like chop cuts, quick haircuts, butI always say that when you find the right boss, and my boss definitely set me up for my
(02:45):
career in terms of she was always super honest.
She kind of encouraged us to draw inspiration, not to just do haircuts.
And I met actually some of my best friends there.
So that's kind of why I.
stayed for so long, I definitely had a good time.
And then I realized there was so much more to life than doing men's cuts.
(03:09):
But a perk of that was so many stylists don't know how to do men's cuts.
And they're stared and it's like a major loss of revenue.
So I definitely think it's a good place to start.
But then when I went more full service, I was like, okay, there's not a million peoplewalking through the door, what can I do to get a clientele?
(03:29):
So that's where I kind of really dove in to social media.
Okay, so I want to go back farther than that and then we'll pick up on that story.
I love that, but I don't want to miss out on how you got into this business in the firstplace.
So I was never a great student.
I think I graduated with like a 1.8 GPA Yeah It's actually funny because the other day Iwas doing a client's hair and we were talking about like one of the two crime cases that
(04:01):
I'm super into and she was like you should be an attorney and I was like girl My GPA was1.8.
This girl's dying laughing.
She goes I didn't even know you could get that low
Hahaha
Always like a chatter.
Social.
yeah, very social.
(04:23):
So I knew I didn't want to go the college route, which back then in 2008 when I graduated,it was very frowned upon to not go to college, especially in the town that I grew up in.
So I actually
are you from Massachusetts originally?
I am, like a little small town, Hopkins Inn.
ah So my parents weren't super thrilled, but my grandmother actually owned a salon.
(04:49):
But she was very like into perms.
think her haircuts were like $9.
So ah she was like, this is gonna be like, she used to call it a labor of love.
So she was like, just be prepared, like it's a lot of work.
So I went to college for two weeks, a community college.
And I was like, I'm going to cosmetology school.
(05:10):
And that was it.
so that, I mean, that path makes a ton of sense.
So when you got to cosmetology school, were you, well, by that time, had you done anyhair?
Had you done your friends?
Had you done kitchen, bathroom, hair, nothing?
No, not really.
Because my grandmother's salon was, I mean, to say it, but like all older ladies.
(05:32):
I was always kind of known as like her granddaughter.
So I don't think anyone wanted me touching their perms.
So yeah.
uh
school and were you, was it an immediate click or not?
no, actually, like all cosmology school, I struggled.
(05:54):
I was like, okay, am I gonna be doing pin curls and roller sets?
Like, I don't know if I can do this.
I definitely thought I made a mistake.
And then once I graduated, they kind of just throw you, you go through like a week oftraining and then they put you right on the floor.
And even then, people do not believe this when I tell them, but I used to cry in themiddle of haircuts.
(06:15):
because I was so afraid to mess people's hair up.
ah That was probably for my first year and a half.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's not uncommon, not uncommon.
And I love for these stories because we have a lot of people in cosmetology schoollistening to this podcast and I want them to know that it doesn't have to click
(06:41):
immediately for them to have a promising future.
Totally.
And honestly, I think sometimes the harder you have to work at it, the more rewarding itis.
And then later on, you can help others.
100 % and that's part of this conversation.
I mean that part this is helping others.
This is part of that You know, you're telling your story where it's not all a straightline ah You know from lower left to upper right, you know all heading in the in the same
(07:11):
direction.
There's bumps along the way Okay, so you uh So you kind of figure it out?
um And then I guess right
And anything else, any other little lessons from cosmetology schools experience?
Kind of just know that what you're doing in cosmetology school does not equate to what youdo in the actual real world.
(07:36):
Like I definitely think it's time to update the task.
And that's so insane.
And I know we're going back to 2008, I think you said, and maybe there's some cosmetologyschools now, here we are, what, 17 years later, that have kind of advanced.
and I, obviously, there's been a lot of changes since then.
(08:00):
I mean, there's changes in state regulations that require certain things like, you know,texture education is now required and
in certain states.
And I know that there's certain cosmetology schools, Paul Mitchell School, Tony and Guyand other schools that, you know, are more expensive, maybe more advanced and trying to
(08:20):
connect the dots between how do you pass the exam for the state and how do you go into asalon immediately afterwards?
And, and, and,
be able to actually service a client effectively.
But I suspect that a lot of consultative schools have not connected those dots yet.
(08:46):
I always compare it to like they're getting you to pass the MCAS of the hair industry.
I don't know if actually I don't know if MCAS is like worldwide.
I don't know what that is.
It's like a standardized testing in Massachusetts to basically pass high school.
And that's kind of what hair school is.
(09:07):
Yeah, right.
And then so you connect a little bit of a dot, you know, maybe a halfway dot, but youdon't connect the important dot, which is when you get into the salon, how are you going
to make a career out of this?
How are you going to make a living out of this that not only pays your bills, allows youto save and allows you to enjoy yourself?
(09:30):
uh And that's really the important dot.
And I know that a lot of cosmetology schools
don't yet make that connection.
So you definitely experienced that.
And so how did you, you had to connect the dots yourself and how did you connect that dot?
Was it, did you go immediately into super cuts?
(09:50):
I did, and I do think that honestly that was a great place for me to start.
I definitely needed additional training.
Like I said, doing anything hair related did not come naturally to me.
I grew up in the era of like pin straight hair.
You would flat iron your hair like four times a day.
So I really didn't have, I didn't even know like which way to turn the curling iron.
(10:13):
There was a lot that was missing.
So I started there and I think they gave me a really great foundation.
However, I would say, and I give this advice to like anyone that I speak to on socialmedia or anyone who takes my education, don't stay there for too long because personally,
I think it puts you in a box.
(10:34):
They're very structured.
You can't do certain colors.
So I would say get your training in there, create relationships, and then move on ifthat's what you desire.
Or some people would love to just do that forever.
And so the you talk about the structure and structure is phenomenal when you need it andthen it's as you grow ideally, you know the evolution of anything and especially a
(11:04):
hairdresser as you grow and you mature and you learn sometimes that structure could get tothe point where it's holding you back and you you need to you know
Let's talk about the metaphor of a plant, right?
The roots of the plant grow and they grow outside of the constraints of the box that theplant is in at the nursery, right?
(11:28):
And sometimes you need to remove yourself from that confining box and then you need toplant yourself in some fertile ground.
And so here I am, I'm so poetic today, look at me.
I'm like philosophical, I have...
Metaphors just oozing out of me.
All right.
So you so the the uh the nursery, the super cuts was the nursery, so to speak.
(11:54):
And they watered you.
And as a as a budding tree and they kind of trained you to stand up straight and blossom.
And then at a certain point, you didn't need those constraints and the boundaries.
And so you left.
And I imagine that the amount of time
How much time did you spend there?
(12:15):
I was there for almost eight years.
Wow.
Okay.
So that's, that kind of supports your, now I see why you made that comment about it.
You were probably there too long.
Would you say you were there too long?
Okay.
So your, your roots were kind of pushing on those, on the, on that box that you're in.
(12:37):
Um, so what would you, how would you advise any listeners who might be, you know, in asituation that
has a lot of support.
They're in a salon or, you know, they're with a group or whatever that has a tremendousamount of support, which is the good part, but also constraints, which is kind of the
(13:00):
other side of that same coin.
uh How would you advise somebody to know when it's time to leave?
I would say at a certain point that you feel comfortable if you had to be in a sink orswim situation in a salon because when you go from a salon with having tons of support,
(13:21):
whichever way that support's coming in, and then you go to let's say like a commissionsalon where it's more laid back, you definitely want to feel prepared knowing that there's
going to be some things that you need to do on your own.
versus when you come from a corporate or a place that has hardcore structures, it's gonnafeel a little different.
(13:42):
So I think if you can imagine yourself feeling confident doing that, and also like a backstep on that, when I left, there were so many services that I didn't know how to do.
And I feel like that sink or swim mentality kind of ended up helping me out a little bitin the long run.
you weren't taught to do them and maybe not allowed to do them, right?
(14:07):
em You made a comment.
I suspect, I understand historically that Supercuts doesn't have, obviously it's not afull service salon.
I know it focuses on dudes who don't want to pay a lot of money for a haircut, stuff likethat.
um But I imagine that you wanted to, you recognized and you saw on Instagram and YouTubeand every,
(14:31):
all these amazing services that were probably fascinating to you and you were annoyed thatyou couldn't do them.
So that was another indication that you needed to kind of leave the nursery and go out onyour own.
Okay, how did you actually, so you were there for eight years and you were probablyjonesing to get out of there and so you finally did and what was that like?
(14:56):
It was honestly really hard.
I do not like change.
I felt awful leaving my boss, who was just amazing to me for eight years.
And obviously, we had our tiffs like anybody else.
ah
But it was kind of just like I was feeling super unhappy.
didn't like the scheduling.
I felt like I was missing a lot of personal events, whether it be like birthday parties,just anything.
(15:18):
And I kind of felt like I chose this career to be happy, make other people happy, andobviously have fun.
And it just kind of wasn't feeling that way anymore.
So I had made the decision to put my two weeks in and the way it works there is they like,basically, if you have any little bit of like requests or clientele, they
Basically, I was done that day because they don't want you taking your clients with you,which I totally get that.
(15:45):
I don't know if things have changed nowadays with anything like that, but it was a littlebit, I felt badly bang.
Yeah, sure.
After that amount of time.
Now really quick about the missing birthdays and such that you it's an employmentsituation, right?
I mean, they employ you on an hourly basis and were you getting any commission or was itjust like 12 bucks an hour?
(16:13):
I think it was like $12 an hour and I'm pretty sure I was making I think $24,000 when Ileft there a year.
which is obviously you can't even buy yourself coffee, unlivable in expensive places likeMassachusetts or California or any of the others.
(16:34):
It seems like almost everywhere is kind of expensive these days.
okay, um so very, very difficult to make a living at that.
And that's the way they kind of structure their business.
there's nothing wrong with that.
It's just.
at a certain point, if you're a hairdresser with skills, it doesn't make any sense to staythere.
(16:58):
And so you don't like change, you stayed there a while.
Okay, so where'd you go when you left?
So I went to a full service salon after that, completely different atmosphere.
I absolutely loved the owner.
We're still super close.
She treated me like family, which is funny because I always see stuff on social media thatsays like, if your salon calls you family, it's toxic.
(17:20):
I don't wholeheartedly believe that because she was always fabulous to me.
But everyone was on commission.
There was a lot of, not, there were some older women there.
So was definitely an adjustment.
And it was kind of like they would book you whatever and you were taking it.
And I quickly realized I cannot sit here all day and do one blow dry a
(17:48):
Got it.
So you were sitting there and there wasn't enough activity, weren't enough clients.
So how long did you stay there?
That was so I actually ended up being there for seven years.
my god.
You really don't like change, do you?
No, but I'm very grateful for that part of my life because that's where I started toestablish on social media.
(18:15):
ah And now I'm out on my own working at another salon, but I rent the chair and that'sbeen amazing, a total whirlwind, definitely a learning experience.
Okay, so hold on.
So all of that downtime at your seven-year salon, your second salon, allowed you to workon your Instagram.
(18:38):
Yeah, and she was so supportive.
There would be days that I would be like, I want to be famous on Instagram.
And she'd be like, you're going to do it, girl.
I'll make those videos.
So was awesome.
That's cool.
But I imagine you weren't making a lot of money.
I mean, if you weren't doing that many clients and it's commission, that could be reallytroublesome, right?
(19:02):
Because you didn't have an hourly, right?
An hourly wage.
one point I had said to her, I love working here, but I think I'm gonna have to go back toan hourly salon because I just can't afford to pay my bills.
So she was like, why don't you do some assisting?
And I've always been interested in numbers behind the business, social media, just kind oflike, I've always been into photography.
(19:28):
So I always was kind of helping her out along the way.
And then I started Instagram.
And this was like back in the day when you would post the pictures of the hair like comingout of each other, like back to back in the collages.
Um, and it kind of just, I started to learn how to like, you know, maximize my posts ontrying to attract clients out.
(19:54):
I took a liking to doing girls who were like 20 to 25, because then I would see that theywould post my Instagram.
to their stories and then their friends were coming in.
And then I was like, okay, like I love Instagram now and it kind of just evolved fromthere.
Okay.
And so this, this was happening towards the tail end of the second salon or this washappening when you went to the booth rental station.
(20:25):
This happened probably like four years into working at the last salon I was at.
Okay, okay.
yeah, so you got really good at building a clientele.
Did you have to, to get the 20 something year old girls, did you have to like lower yourprices or anything?
(20:47):
Cause sometimes they're not making enough money.
I did a lot of free services, and I know that's controversial in our industry, but Ialways say it comes back around to you tenfold.
There were clients that I would do for free, and now they're paying me today.
And I think things like that go a long way for spreading the word.
(21:11):
They're posting on their social media.
It gives me experience because I still wasn't totally
perfect at doing those services.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, it makes a lot of sense.
You know, it might be controversial, but it works, right?
(21:31):
So I don't know how controversial it really should be.
And I mean, the number of of hairdressers who have built their clients that way are it'sthe end of the list is very, very long, you know, in my experience.
So
Yeah, if it works, it works.
(21:52):
salon owners should look into doing that.
And I even tell any new stylists that come to our classes, I'll say, know, if you're anassistant right now, ask your boss if you can bring models in.
Have your model cover the cost of the color.
And I know that it sucks working on your days off, but you're going to get all of thiscontent and this could lead to literally filling your box.
(22:16):
building your business.
You know, it's an investment, right?
It's an investment of your time.
And that's what a hairdresser has, you know, early in their career is they have time toinvest.
They might not have money to invest, but they have time to invest.
And so that's why it makes a lot of sense.
Okay, so that was working for you.
(22:36):
Okay, so then you move to a chair rental situation.
And is that where you are now?
am, yep.
So we have been there for a little bit longer than a year.
Okay, and it's working.
Yeah, it's honestly fantastic.
It's a lot of work.
And I can see why people say that sometimes leaving a commission salon to go work foryourself doesn't always work out.
(23:00):
I think personally it's working for me just because I feel like I can categorize intobuckets of things I need to do.
But I can see why people love working at commissions salons.
Totally.
All right, so how are you splitting your time these days?
Because I know you're not just behind the chair.
I know you're behind the chair a lot, but I know you're not just behind the chair becauseyou're extremely active on your content creation and some brands have noticed and we here
(23:31):
at the Hair Game Podcast have noticed.
So here you are doing a podcast, you're not behind the chair doing a client.
So talk about how you split your time these days.
So I work four days a week behind the chair, sometimes five if I need to squeeze peoplein.
I think also going back to like kind of my earlier days, I always tried to be fairlyaccommodating to people just because I know like life happens.
(23:56):
I'm the oldest of six kids.
So I just feel like things happen, kids get sick.
So I don't keep a firm cancellation policy.
I also struggle with anxiety.
So I feel like I understand that like life's life.
Um, so I tried to always be accommodating throughout my career, just in general, eventhough if I lose money on the back end of that, again, I feel like it's just a nicer thing
(24:21):
to do.
Um, but I feel like it's been great.
And so I do the four days a week, typically behind the chair.
And then every morning I wake up, start to edit, of type my captions.
So that's usually five days a week I'm doing that.
(24:42):
And then I take Sundays off usually and kind of just have that be my day.
And the other two days I'm usually on meetings, editing, kind of trying to think outsidethe box of what my next plan's gonna be.
And yeah.
Yeah, it looks like you post just about every day, maybe every other, well, no.
(25:10):
I mean, you're pretty much every day.
I mean, you missed a couple days, but what's that?
I would post two times a day, sometimes three times a day.
And kind of as I've got a following, I've tried to make my videos better, and therefore ittakes longer to edit.
(25:31):
So I've really been posting sometimes, usually once a day, but then there will be weeksthat I'll take a few days off.
And yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, you'll have like five days in a row and then maybe you skip a day.
But I mean, more or less, it's pretty much every workday that you're posting, which isvery impressive.
And your videos are not just you holding the camera there behind your client's head.
(25:58):
I mean, like you just...
alluded to, definitely edit, you definitely put time in, you have captions there, veryeducational.
That was the one thing that I got from your page, is it's very educational and I could seewhy, you know, you're
you know, some of the brands have wanted you as an ambassador because uh your audience onInstagram is getting value from, you know, your posts.
(26:28):
One of the reasons I led this conversation with, you know, how good your Instagram is.
So uh you're putting real work into it and it looks like it's paying off.
I love Instagram and I always say I know that it's overwhelming.
Same with TikTok, but I feel like once you see what it can do for you, you're like, I wantmore of that.
(26:50):
And then you kind of start to become addicted, which is kind of, I obviously can be notthe best.
Um, but I think that if you're not using social media in 2025, you're missing out.
Even if you post one time a week, like that could be one client.
(27:10):
It's just part of your job, isn't it?
As a service provider, it's just kind of part of the job.
it boils down to, you know, what kind of career do you want?
You do you want to be making that next level of income?
(27:32):
Do you want to be, you know, honing in on the kind of client you want?
you know, in your chair and all those other things that we talk about all the time thateverybody knows about.
Instagram is a great tool for it.
And, you you said you're addicted to it.
I think this is like a good version of addiction.
(27:52):
I think, you know, you're addicted to being productive, you know, with a highly productivetool that supports your business.
And that's really, really great.
Obviously, the bad part of addiction on something like Instagram is if
You just sit here and scroll cat videos or whatever, you know, for that, that kind of goesin the bucket of entertainment.
(28:14):
You know, if you're addicted to it for, um, know, silly entertainment and you're spendingsix hours a day looking at cat videos, nothing productive about that.
So that's going to cost you.
So I think, I think you're doing great here.
Um, you also, you also educate.
So how often like in person, so how often are you doing that?
(28:36):
So that's definitely something I'm newer to.
I have been doing that usually during the year, not during summer, because I love summer.
I'll try to do it with one class a month minimum.
And this is something that I kind of want to dive into more next year.
The first year of me being rental versus commission was definitely like, oh my god, I haveto go to the hair store and then I have to respond to all these clients.
(29:01):
Like, how am I going to
book there or write my presentation for this class when I have to work a million hours.
So now that I've kind of gotten into a groove, my goal is in the future, definitely moreeducation classes.
Okay, so let's kind of go back to that transition to being an independent and having areply to clients like you just said.
(29:28):
have you delved into different technology tools to kind of make it easier for you?
For example, like online booking.
Like all of a sudden you have to book yourself, right?
Maybe before there was a front desk, now you have to book yourself and there's lots oftools out there to do so.
Have you delved into that yet?
So I do have online booking and I think also having people be able to reach you on socialmedia has helped.
(29:55):
I know that can be a double edged sword because they're messaging at all times of thenight.
But I've tried to tell all of my clients, here's my online booking.
It's open 24 seven.
If you book it and I see that something's incorrect that you booked, I'll reach out toyou.
So that's been a really positive tool to have is the online booking for sure.
(30:17):
Okay, anything else that you've kind of found that's helpful in your transition toindependence?
I think being prepared, knowing that it's not gonna be always like sunshine andbutterflies.
uh Just knowing that like, you are going to be doing everything.
(30:38):
There's no one to help.
that, let me rewind.
Not that there's no one to help you, but before I had an assistant, if something wentwrong, I had a manager, the owner of the salon, the receptionist.
So it was definitely interesting in that aspect, but I really do think the online bookingreally helped me out.
(31:01):
Totally.
And of course you can get an assistant now.
ah You know, when you feel like your business has gotten to that point, ah you know, maybeit requires a little bit of, uh you know, altering your schedule, maybe, you know, booking
more people at the same time or whatever.
Yeah, have you considered that?
(31:23):
So one thing I've been loving is kind of just spending time one-on-one with my clients andkind of slowing it down a little bit.
And I think that's where the luxury of social media has come in because I know that I haveanother income or a few from the social media on the side.
And I think that it's honestly like elevated my game behind the chair because I'm notlike, my God, God, I this haircut so I can pay my rent.
(31:50):
Whereas
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna deliver my clients the results they deserve.
And it's okay if I'm booking a few less people because one, I'm recording them to post onmy social media.
And I feel like that's kind of filling that gap of me not double booking.
Interesting, that makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
(32:11):
And I'm sure your clients 100 % appreciate that.
You're elevating your service and that's what it's all about at the end of the day, theexperience for the client.
Talk about pricing.
Have you changed your pricing from when you went to the commission to now as anindependent?
(32:32):
So actually going to be raising my pricing within the next few weeks.
Nothing crazy.
I just haven't raised them in a year.
I try to do a yearly or a little bit over a year.
I try to do a yearly update.
The salon I came from had a structure in place where if you were a certain percent booked,then you would move up to the next level.
(32:53):
And I've noticed in some of the classes we've taught that if you're not constantly raisingyour prices, even the slightest,
you end up falling behind.
And then you're kind of too far behind.
And it's like raising them just $5 isn't going to do anything, but you can't raise them 40because then you're going to lose clients.
So I feel like these are just things I've learned over the years to kind of like stay withthe market, stay with your demographic.
(33:20):
And, you know, when you're putting out the work of what your prices are, your clients feellike it's worth it, they'll still stick with you.
Absolutely, and this is something we've been talking about for a long time, especially thelast two or three years since inflation has reared its ugly head, like real inflation,
right?
(33:40):
So we had, you two to 3 % inflation kind of through the 20 teens and then COVID and thenboom, right?
We're like 7%, 8 % inflation with a lot of consumer.
like grocery products and stuff we've seen 10, 15, 20 % inflation.
(34:00):
And so you just kind of have to keep up with the economy.
I mean, the nature, the value of our currency, you know, which loses value every year tothe tune of these days, you know, let's call it three to 4 % per year.
If you're not increasing your prices by about that, then
(34:22):
you're making essentially less money.
You're making the same dollar amount, but that dollar amount is buying you less.
You know, it's paying for less of an apartment.
It's buying you fewer groceries at the grocery store.
All the things, all the things, right?
It's buying you less of a Netflix subscription, right?
(34:45):
Which used to be like $7 and now it's like $18, right?
And that happened in like five years.
Right?
So it's, um, to keep, kind of keep an eye on what's going on around us and recognize it,not in like a high anxiety way.
Oh, we have to worry about it.
We have to fret, you know, just recognize it and recognize that this is just very commonand, has, and has usually been this way across history.
(35:15):
So, I think our industry, the data that I see we've gotten better.
In the last three years or so, we've gotten better at having good kind of inflationadjusted price increases.
So, you know, good on us.
Unfortunately, not all the clients are, um have been readily accepting of it.
(35:40):
um Which is, which I think is just a hangover from the client's experience going back 20years.
And look, I have conversations with my dude friends who are like, you know, pay more than$40 for a haircut.
No way.
I've been paying $40, you know, ever since I've been an adult and I'm like, okay, wellthat $40 buys you half as much at the grocery store as it did 15 years ago.
(36:11):
So how can you sit here and tell me that it makes sense that you're, you should still onlyhave to pay $40 for a haircut, right?
Some consumers believe that their haircut or their hair service or whatever shouldcontinue to be the same price because that's what they experienced maybe for the first 10
years of adulthood, you know, since they started paying for the hair services themselves,you know, before that, their parents paid for it.
(36:37):
um And so it's kind of, it's kind of training the clients.
It's training the consumer.
um
Absolutely.
And I think that so far, like many of my clients have been OK with my price increases.
(37:01):
It was actually interesting.
So when I worked at Super Cuts, I think the haircut was $14.95.
And then if you wanted to shampoo, I think it was like $3 more.
And so many people didn't want the shampoo because of $3.
So then when I went to the Cuts salon, my haircut was $45, which I was like, oh my God, noone's going to pay that.
(37:22):
I had a lot of people, not a lot, but in my mind, I had a lot of people follow me that Ithought would freak out.
So I think that when you show your worth, and I've always been willing to meet my clientsin the middle, like now my haircuts are $88.
But it's also been like nine years later, which is crazy going from like $15 to $88.
(37:50):
But you're also getting a shampoo, a blowout.
And then if someone maybe doesn't want to blow out, I now offer a wet cut price.
And anyone that gives me pushback, I'm, I feel like I'm kind of very friendly with myclients in the sense of they'll say something sarcastic, like, who do you think you are?
Like a rocket scientist?
(38:10):
And I'm like, well, clearly I am if you're in my chair and you know, kind of make it likeyou can go anywhere, but you're still here because you like the way I chip into your side.
And if you go to somewhere that's charging less, you're probably not going to have yoursides chipped into.
Right.
100%.
And this reminds me of the four SWs, which I talk about now and then, but maybe notenough.
(38:35):
Some will, in other words, clients, some clients will, some clients won't.
So what?
Someone's waiting.
And so there's going to be clients who are not willing to pay $88.
There's the clients who are willing to pay you $88.
And those are the ones who continue to come to you.
As far as filling the gaps,
(38:57):
with new clientele out there in the public.
There's going to be some people who aren't willing to pay $88, but there's a lot of peoplewho are willing to pay $88 who want what you have to give.
And so your job is to find those people.
It's to put yourself out there in the places where those people are so they can find you.
(39:18):
And this kind of like, you know, ties the bow on this conversation where you've done agood job.
on Instagram of being where those people are who are willing and able to pay $88 for areally great service.
Yeah, definitely.
(39:38):
And I know that obviously in this economy, which is so funny saying that like the otherday, one of my clients was like, she has three kids in this economy.
So it's just like, kind of a funny saying, but I do always try to say, like, if peoplegive pushback, explain to your client, not exactly like what the hair color costs.
(40:01):
But for an example, one of my clients who's been with me for a while, she was like, Ican't believe you charge that.
And I was like,
I have to pay for my health insurance, my building rent, which this isn't something I putout on social media because I think when you, sometimes I see some things that are like
kind of crazy, which I wouldn't be putting on social media.
But when you have a more personal conversation with your client, then they're like, Ididn't even think of that.
(40:25):
Like I didn't know that you had to pay for your health insurance.
And then it's kind of not so much like, oh my God, you turned to me $88.
And it's kind of just like, that's what a business is.
It's what a business is exactly right.
And it's unfortunate that you have to have that conversation, such a basic, common sensebit of information that you need to give your client.
(40:51):
But it's great that you're able to do that with your personality and your relationshipwith the client.
You're able to do that in a good, kind, soft, informative, uh fun way and remind them that
You're a human too.
And it's frustrating me always when I see, in California, we love to increase the minimumwage and things like that.
(41:20):
And everybody's like, yes, fast food workers should be making $25 an hour from $15 an hourin one year.
And they should be able to do this.
They should be able to do that.
And then when a hairdresser tries to increase their price $5, that same person who wassaying, yes, fast food workers should be able to make 20, that same person is like, I not,
(41:45):
you don't need to make an extra $5 for this service that takes an hour and a half.
And it's like, wait, what?
know, people have this kind of perception about what people, what others should be earningand, uh, except when it is going to affect what they pay.
Right.
percent.
(42:07):
I see you all the time.
you see it all the time.
So it's good to remind them.
It's good to remind them.
And I don't want to discount the pressure on the consumer.
I think it is important to recognize general pressure on the consumer that prices havegone up, like we've said.
(42:29):
You know, there are certain other elements within kind of the consumer experience of thelast two or three years.
that are super annoying.
I understand the pressure on the consumer, but you as a hairdresser, me as a consumer, allof us in the beauty industry, we're also consumers who are receiving the same pressure of
(42:51):
inflation.
So why should we
suffer the consequences of having to absorb all of these increasing prices withoutincreasing our prices to an inflationary degree, right?
And so that's kind of what it boils down to.
So I love the fact that you said that about, you know, reminding clients that, hey, you'realso a person in this economy, you're a small business, and you're just trying to keep up
(43:18):
with expenses.
Totally.
And kind of another thing that goes back to social media, I feel like, so the area I livein, it's very suburb.
We're about like 45 minutes away from Boston.
And it's kind of just like, I feel like you're average, maybe like a little bit highermiddle class, but mainly middle class.
(43:41):
And I feel like there's a lot of blue collar workers.
And I think
specifically in this area because so many people take the train to the city to work.
If you didn't go to college, you're kind of looked down upon.
And I don't know if that's kind of like a world or a countrywide or worldwide thing.
But I feel like the moment I got on social media, it almost helped my value behind thechair.
(44:08):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, first of all, Massachusetts, obviously, maybe not obviously, but it is a center ofhigher education in the world, right?
You got MIT, you got Harvard, you have some of the institutions of highest renown there.
(44:30):
And also, I think last time I looked,
one of the greatest, one of the highest percentages of people with graduate degrees and anupper level education.
So not surprised at all that you're experiencing that.
I'm not so sure you're going to find that quite as much in other parts of the country.
However, you're talking about your credibility as a professional and doing as well asyou're doing on Instagram has given you that credibility uh as a professional.
(44:59):
And I think it's just
Another reason why it's worth being addicted and I'm doing air quotes for the listenersnot the watchers, but the listeners air quotes Why why having an addiction to being
productive on Instagram is a hundred percent worth the investment?
Totally and for like the newer stylist I think a lot of the ways you word things onInstagram people want things that are in demand and also people that are in demand and I
(45:27):
think it's kind of like a Natural habit that if you seem booked people are gonna want tosee you more because they're one like my god She must be good.
She's booked and two I think it's just that natural like I want what I can't have so Ifeel like
making that kind of known in a humble way on social media also makes people want to eitherfollow you, book with you, take classes from you.
(45:55):
So I think that's also like another tool.
That's definitely next level.
That's next level branding and credibility, creation and reputation building and all ofthat kind of stuff, what you're talking about there.
And it deals with social proof.
Social proof is kind of this, I don't know if it's like psychology or whatever, but asconsumers, sometimes we are, if,
(46:25):
If it seems like something is in high demand, that's called social proof.
In other words, we think, okay, well, all of the other people in my social network, youknow, want this one thing and that one thing must be really good.
So if you can create, you know, uh a sense of social proof for your services as aprofessional, I mean, the power of that is enormous.
(46:50):
So...
So how do you do that?
How do you do that on it?
How do you do that?
This is actually a question for you.
How do you do that?
You know, with your page.
So I think going back to offering the free services and that also will help you.
I always say this too, try to not niche yourself too much too early because for anexample, I made my Instagram name, Vivids and Bolliage.
(47:15):
I basically do neither of them now.
But at the time, I mean, I do Vivids more for fun and I do more of like foillage versusBolliage.
If I could go back, I would totally change my Instagram name.
But at the time, I thought I was going to be in Boston, like painting art murals thatlooked like people's hair.
(47:36):
So at the time, it was a great name.
So I feel like offering free services to not only show your work, but to figure out morewhat you love.
And I feel like when you're doing it for discounted or free, you kind of have more freerein.
So that was definitely something.
that kind of got me going.
And then I also feel like when you have one video blow up and it will go breezy for noreason, that can do so much for you.
(48:06):
So I feel like kind of going in that direction with, you know, using Instagram to makeyourself seem more, I don't wanna say more valuable than you are, but kind of like,
back off what you're doing in the real world.
Yes, you're creating, you're showing value.
(48:28):
You know, whether it's more valuable than you are or whatever, it really is, the essenceof it is you're showing your value to people.
uh New potential clients, you know, they're going on there, they're seeing it, oh, she'san educator.
look at how she's educating other hairstylists.
She's putting all these little like captions and...
(48:50):
um, lines on, you know, this client's head in order so other hairdressers can learn thistechnique.
You know, she must, she's an authority really.
That's what it boils down to, isn't it?
Like she, she has, she's an authority for this particular service and she must be reallygreat.
So I'm going to try her.
(49:11):
I think that it boils down to that and everybody can, can learn from such a thing.
I think these are great lessons.
And also showing yourself more because obviously there's a million hairstylists in theworld and especially in my area.
There's like, I think maybe 10 plus salons in the town I work in and it's like really notthat big of a town.
(49:33):
So I feel like connecting with people on a personal level is so important these days.
I've really kind of gone into that in the last two and a half years, getting comfortable,showing my face, talking.
I know that every time we teach, people are like, I just hate hearing the sound of my ownvoice.
And I'm like, girl, trust me.
I get dragged on social media for it every day.
(49:57):
And it sounds so cliche, but I always say, haters are your motivators, because it's sotrue.
Yeah, 100%.
100%.
You're doing a great job of it.
All right, if I handed you a wand and Queen Steph waves this wand and you can changeanything about the industry at all, what would it be?
(50:23):
I think it would be, and I even am waving the swan at myself to be more authentic in thesense of I come across as this like super powerful person on Instagram, very confident,
but I struggle with everything that everyone else does as far as like mental healthbalance.
(50:45):
And I feel like sometimes it's hard to talk about that on social media, not because Idon't want people to know it, but it's just kind of like,
finding the place to share that or put it on my feed.
So I think just more realism.
it...
Right.
I love that you said that.
(51:06):
Where...
Kind of...
Where's the threshold where it becomes valuable for you to express that?
And not necessarily valuable to you to express it to your audience, but valuable to youraudience for you to express it to them.
I think that...
(51:27):
You know the general comment that you had that you have self-doubt you have anxiety andyou have concerns and you have all these things It's very human.
I think it's very common Who knows where you fall on the spectrum versus like the averageperson?
None of us know right because none of us are in each other's heads but um the the the realkind of
(51:51):
being transparent about maybe struggles that you have that can be valuable to youraudience in the right context.
And so only you know like where or when, how much, you know, to share and in a hope that,you know, it's going to help somebody else maybe realize that they're not the only ones
(52:15):
that have self-doubt or imposter syndrome or
that constant sense of anxiety and you know of like oh shit another day and what's goingto happen and all this stuff.
So I love the fact that you mentioned that.
And I always say and I teach this in the social media classes that I teach Which I'm likethis is hilarious because I'm teaching a social media class but I always say a lot of what
(52:40):
you see online is fake and whether that's because You know my Instagram page technicallyis my business page.
So if I'm having a terrible day I'm not gonna go on my stories and rant about it as muchas I would love to
I still have to remain professional.
I'm working with brands.
I built relationships.
(53:01):
So I feel like you said, of just finding the balance of realness.
And because I am myself on my Instagram page, but I would say maybe not my whole self.
And that's probably a lot of other styles.
Sure.
I'm not sure any Instagram should have all of our whole selves on there.
(53:23):
%!
1000 %!
That would be a scary place.
it's a balance.
think you've a uh nice balance with it.
uh And then, you you just kind of have to feel out if it's ever valuable to your audienceto mention anything more.
(53:44):
I think that it could definitely be too much.
it's like, my gosh, the audience is like, she's...
It could feel like complaining, right?
About your anxiety and all this kind of stuff.
like, I'm not so sure that's, you know, in too, too often it's, it's not valuable and, orentertaining or informative or helpful, you know, to your audience.
(54:08):
I do kind of want to fly off the handle on social media, I do try to remember this is mybusiness.
So even like the other day with something so simple, I was at a grocery store and I wasbacking out of the parking spot.
And my new pet peeve is when you're like three quarters out of the way of the spot andsomeone's walking behind you.
And it's like, I'm in a car and you're on foot, like what do think is gonna happen?
(54:33):
And I'm going to make a TikTok about like five things that annoy me because at the time itsounded funny.
And by the time I got home, I'm like, what would that accomplish?
Literally nothing.
Well, it depends how good of a TikTok it is.
mean, there's, you know, there's rants kind of ugly and there's rants funny.
(54:58):
And, and of course, that's a very fine line between those two things.
I mean, you just mentioning that I laughed because I experienced that too.
And that's also super annoying.
that you're three quarters out of the parking space and the person on foot keeps walkingbecause they don't want to wait, you know, the eight seconds for you to get out of.
(55:25):
And of course, you know, if you have a car with a camera in the back, you can see thatthey're like on their phone.
They're not even watching.
And you're like, okay, I'm about to kill this person.
You know, maybe they should put the phone down and recognize
you know, that it's a dangerous situation.
So I mean, it's funny, you know, so as long as you can execute, you know, this piece ofmeme content, you know, in a funny way versus like an ugly ranting way, then it's gonna be
(55:57):
funny.
Yeah, so things like that.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So, you do have good videos like that, by the way.
I've talked about uh your educational videos and stuff where your personality comes out,but your personality comes out especially on your kind of meme videos, and you like
sprinkle the the salon mostly, meme videos throughout your page, is fun.
(56:23):
I try to do that just to kind of keep it fun.
And like my new way of trying to attract clients is now that my books are full, I'm kindof going for more like people that I actually mesh with personality wise, people that
might want to make a TikTok, people that will let me record their hair.
Cause not only am I like loving being behind the chair, eventually I want to start like myown private education, whether that be virtual or more in-person classes.
(56:51):
So I'm just kind of trying to.
see what newness I can attract just by showing more funnier videos.
Totally.
No, I think it's great.
Do you have any hare or horse stories that you can share with us?
my God, I have a couple.
So probably my first one was at Supercut and honestly still till this day, cutting a veryblunt bob I think is like one of the hardest things to do.
(57:21):
And this girl had super long hair and I was always the chatter and I think a lot of timesit's just to like ease the awkward silence.
Like I will chat to you about like what your grandma is doing later.
Um, so we're chatting away.
She had super long hair and she wanted like a little bit above the shoulder of a bob.
So I'm like cutting away and all of sudden I'm like, shit, this is getting so short.
(57:45):
And she looks up in the mirror and she goes, my God, my hair is so short.
It was probably to her chin at this point.
And I'm like,
hold on, hold on.
So wait, did you say, my God, it's so short?
Or did you think, my God, it's so short?
was thinking that, like panicking and trying to win her over with this conversationbecause I knew it was bad.
(58:09):
So she looks in the mirror, she starts crying, and then my boss comes over, I'm crying,and she left with a very, very short bob.
God, does she let you finish it at least?
no, no.
So a very short half-finished bob.
(58:31):
Yeah, so that was really, really bad.
And obviously that like regressed any progression I've made.
You know, I'm sitting here thinking who goes into super cuts for kind of a transitionalhaircut into kind of a medium length bob.
(58:55):
Like that's, and I know my listeners are thinking the same thing, but.
And I don't mean to sound like a snob.
mean, obviously, Supercuts has great things and, you know, we have good hairstylists atSalon Republic who came from Supercuts and they've, their careers have advanced amazingly
and they've been very successful.
But I don't know, that seems very optimistic as a client to go in there for that kind of aservice.
(59:22):
Yeah, even looking back, like some of the people that would come in for corrective colorthat at the time I didn't even know what that was.
I'm like, why would you ever go to super cuts for that?
Right?
Well, you tried and you learned, and I'm sure that you learned from that experience andprobably haven't made that mistake again.
No, I haven't.
(59:42):
And still to this day when I'm cutting a bob, I'm like, OK, you need to focus.
And because when it's out that length, you can see everything.
ah So I still kind of am slightly traumatized from that moment.
It's so funny.
We haven't had a good Bob horror story in years.
I want to say most of our horror stories are like, you know, chemical, chemical horrorstories, right?
(01:00:09):
So this was, that was a good one.
liked that.
I've had like, this was probably five years ago, I let this girl process for way too long,I was double booked.
And I have never seen hair that was so melted off.
Like, I thought that there was like a malfunction with the light in our and I'm at thestage just pulling out clumps and clumps.
(01:00:31):
And there used to be this guy that works there and he was like, okay, like, convinced herto flat iron her hair.
And
I mean, I still do her hair till this day, but it was not good at all.
It was just kind of a learning button.
God, it seems like almost everybody's had that experience.
(01:00:53):
Any last words for the community?
No, I think that I'm so lucky to be part of this industry.
And I think that I always say whatever you put in, you get out.
So if you want to work 20 hours a week and that's it, you're going to probably have a 20hour a week salary.
(01:01:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Wise words.
I love it.
Thank you, Steph.
It's so great talking to you.
You too.
Thank you for having me on.
Hi Steph, how are you?
I'm good, how are you?
I'm doing great.
So this is Steph, not Stephanie Brown, but she told me to call her Steph.
So for the rest of the conversation, she is Steph.
You're a Massachusetts hairdresser who focuses on color and you're a member of the BTCteam.
(00:20):
And it looks like you're a Cosmo Prof ambassador, anything else?
Any other accolades that I'm missing?
So those are definitely my major ones.
And on top of that, I'm a full-time hairstylist.
I love creating content.
And I just feel very fortunate to be in this industry.
You're so good at creating content.
(00:43):
The cool thing about content, and this is maybe just so obvious to the audience, but I'mgonna say it anyway.
The cool thing about it is that everyone has their own personality as part of what they'recreating, right?
And it's, you know, I peruse your content mostly through Instagram, and it's just so you.
(01:07):
You know, there's just so much of your personality that comes out and it's so, it's justgood.
And it's just entertaining.
You're so educational and your, your personality comes out, your voice comes out and, Isee why people like it.
And so for the list, I'm going through this, not to butter you up, cause I don't need tobutter you up, but just for the listeners to understand who may not know you.
(01:35):
uh
really encouraging everybody to go to your Instagram, Vivis and Ballyaj and check you out.
But it just, you know, I've been doing these episodes for seven plus years.
I think we're actually, let's see, I started in August of 2017.
So I'm actually heading towards eight years doing this and 400 plus episodes.
(02:02):
And I've seen a lot of hairdresser, you know, accounts.
(02:24):
I've definitely used that as a tactic on a way to attract my desired clientele.
I actually started at Super Pod.
which I always tell people that I know it's known for like chop cuts, quick haircuts, butI always say that when you find the right boss, and my boss definitely set me up for my
(02:45):
career in terms of she was always super honest.
She kind of encouraged us to draw inspiration, not to just do haircuts.
And I met actually some of my best friends there.
So that's kind of why I.
stayed for so long, I definitely had a good time.
And then I realized there was so much more to life than doing men's cuts.
(03:09):
But a perk of that was so many stylists don't know how to do men's cuts.
And they're stared and it's like a major loss of revenue.
So I definitely think it's a good place to start.
But then when I went more full service, I was like, okay, there's not a million peoplewalking through the door, what can I do to get a clientele?
(03:29):
So that's where I kind of really dove in to social media.
Okay, so I want to go back farther than that and then we'll pick up on that story.
I love that, but I don't want to miss out on how you got into this business in the firstplace.
So I was never a great student.
I think I graduated with like a 1.8 GPA Yeah It's actually funny because the other day Iwas doing a client's hair and we were talking about like one of the two crime cases that
(04:01):
I'm super into and she was like you should be an attorney and I was like girl My GPA was1.8.
This girl's dying laughing.
She goes I didn't even know you could get that low
Hahaha
Always like a chatter.
Social.
yeah, very social.
(04:23):
So I knew I didn't want to go the college route, which back then in 2008 when I graduated,it was very frowned upon to not go to college, especially in the town that I grew up in.
So I actually
are you from Massachusetts originally?
I am, like a little small town, Hopkins Inn.
ah So my parents weren't super thrilled, but my grandmother actually owned a salon.
(04:49):
But she was very like into perms.
think her haircuts were like $9.
So ah she was like, this is gonna be like, she used to call it a labor of love.
So she was like, just be prepared, like it's a lot of work.
So I went to college for two weeks, a community college.
And I was like, I'm going to cosmetology school.
(05:10):
And that was it.
so that, I mean, that path makes a ton of sense.
So when you got to cosmetology school, were you, well, by that time, had you done anyhair?
Had you done your friends?
Had you done kitchen, bathroom, hair, nothing?
No, not really.
Because my grandmother's salon was, I mean, to say it, but like all older ladies.
(05:32):
I was always kind of known as like her granddaughter.
So I don't think anyone wanted me touching their perms.
So yeah.
uh
school and were you, was it an immediate click or not?
no, actually, like all cosmology school, I struggled.
(05:54):
I was like, okay, am I gonna be doing pin curls and roller sets?
Like, I don't know if I can do this.
I definitely thought I made a mistake.
And then once I graduated, they kind of just throw you, you go through like a week oftraining and then they put you right on the floor.
And even then, people do not believe this when I tell them, but I used to cry in themiddle of haircuts.
(06:15):
because I was so afraid to mess people's hair up.
ah That was probably for my first year and a half.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's not uncommon, not uncommon.
And I love for these stories because we have a lot of people in cosmetology schoollistening to this podcast and I want them to know that it doesn't have to click
(06:41):
immediately for them to have a promising future.
Totally.
And honestly, I think sometimes the harder you have to work at it, the more rewarding itis.
And then later on, you can help others.
100 % and that's part of this conversation.
I mean that part this is helping others.
This is part of that You know, you're telling your story where it's not all a straightline ah You know from lower left to upper right, you know all heading in the in the same
(07:11):
direction.
There's bumps along the way Okay, so you uh So you kind of figure it out?
um And then I guess right
And anything else, any other little lessons from cosmetology schools experience?
Kind of just know that what you're doing in cosmetology school does not equate to what youdo in the actual real world.
(07:36):
Like I definitely think it's time to update the task.
And that's so insane.
And I know we're going back to 2008, I think you said, and maybe there's some cosmetologyschools now, here we are, what, 17 years later, that have kind of advanced.
and I, obviously, there's been a lot of changes since then.
(08:00):
I mean, there's changes in state regulations that require certain things like, you know,texture education is now required and
in certain states.
And I know that there's certain cosmetology schools, Paul Mitchell School, Tony and Guyand other schools that, you know, are more expensive, maybe more advanced and trying to
(08:20):
connect the dots between how do you pass the exam for the state and how do you go into asalon immediately afterwards?
And, and, and,
be able to actually service a client effectively.
But I suspect that a lot of consultative schools have not connected those dots yet.
(08:46):
I always compare it to like they're getting you to pass the MCAS of the hair industry.
I don't know if actually I don't know if MCAS is like worldwide.
I don't know what that is.
It's like a standardized testing in Massachusetts to basically pass high school.
And that's kind of what hair school is.
(09:07):
Yeah, right.
And then so you connect a little bit of a dot, you know, maybe a halfway dot, but youdon't connect the important dot, which is when you get into the salon, how are you going
to make a career out of this?
How are you going to make a living out of this that not only pays your bills, allows youto save and allows you to enjoy yourself?
(09:30):
uh And that's really the important dot.
And I know that a lot of cosmetology schools
don't yet make that connection.
So you definitely experienced that.
And so how did you, you had to connect the dots yourself and how did you connect that dot?
Was it, did you go immediately into super cuts?
(09:50):
I did, and I do think that honestly that was a great place for me to start.
I definitely needed additional training.
Like I said, doing anything hair related did not come naturally to me.
I grew up in the era of like pin straight hair.
You would flat iron your hair like four times a day.
So I really didn't have, I didn't even know like which way to turn the curling iron.
(10:13):
There was a lot that was missing.
So I started there and I think they gave me a really great foundation.
However, I would say, and I give this advice to like anyone that I speak to on socialmedia or anyone who takes my education, don't stay there for too long because personally,
I think it puts you in a box.
(10:34):
They're very structured.
You can't do certain colors.
So I would say get your training in there, create relationships, and then move on ifthat's what you desire.
Or some people would love to just do that forever.
And so the you talk about the structure and structure is phenomenal when you need it andthen it's as you grow ideally, you know the evolution of anything and especially a
(11:04):
hairdresser as you grow and you mature and you learn sometimes that structure could get tothe point where it's holding you back and you you need to you know
Let's talk about the metaphor of a plant, right?
The roots of the plant grow and they grow outside of the constraints of the box that theplant is in at the nursery, right?
(11:28):
And sometimes you need to remove yourself from that confining box and then you need toplant yourself in some fertile ground.
And so here I am, I'm so poetic today, look at me.
I'm like philosophical, I have...
Metaphors just oozing out of me.
All right.
So you so the the uh the nursery, the super cuts was the nursery, so to speak.
(11:54):
And they watered you.
And as a as a budding tree and they kind of trained you to stand up straight and blossom.
And then at a certain point, you didn't need those constraints and the boundaries.
And so you left.
And I imagine that the amount of time
How much time did you spend there?
(12:15):
I was there for almost eight years.
Wow.
Okay.
So that's, that kind of supports your, now I see why you made that comment about it.
You were probably there too long.
Would you say you were there too long?
Okay.
So your, your roots were kind of pushing on those, on the, on that box that you're in.
(12:37):
Um, so what would you, how would you advise any listeners who might be, you know, in asituation that
has a lot of support.
They're in a salon or, you know, they're with a group or whatever that has a tremendousamount of support, which is the good part, but also constraints, which is kind of the
(13:00):
other side of that same coin.
uh How would you advise somebody to know when it's time to leave?
I would say at a certain point that you feel comfortable if you had to be in a sink orswim situation in a salon because when you go from a salon with having tons of support,
(13:21):
whichever way that support's coming in, and then you go to let's say like a commissionsalon where it's more laid back, you definitely want to feel prepared knowing that there's
going to be some things that you need to do on your own.
versus when you come from a corporate or a place that has hardcore structures, it's gonnafeel a little different.
(13:42):
So I think if you can imagine yourself feeling confident doing that, and also like a backstep on that, when I left, there were so many services that I didn't know how to do.
And I feel like that sink or swim mentality kind of ended up helping me out a little bitin the long run.
you weren't taught to do them and maybe not allowed to do them, right?
(14:07):
em You made a comment.
I suspect, I understand historically that Supercuts doesn't have, obviously it's not afull service salon.
I know it focuses on dudes who don't want to pay a lot of money for a haircut, stuff likethat.
um But I imagine that you wanted to, you recognized and you saw on Instagram and YouTubeand every,
(14:31):
all these amazing services that were probably fascinating to you and you were annoyed thatyou couldn't do them.
So that was another indication that you needed to kind of leave the nursery and go out onyour own.
Okay, how did you actually, so you were there for eight years and you were probablyjonesing to get out of there and so you finally did and what was that like?
(14:56):
It was honestly really hard.
I do not like change.
I felt awful leaving my boss, who was just amazing to me for eight years.
And obviously, we had our tiffs like anybody else.
ah
But it was kind of just like I was feeling super unhappy.
didn't like the scheduling.
I felt like I was missing a lot of personal events, whether it be like birthday parties,just anything.
(15:18):
And I kind of felt like I chose this career to be happy, make other people happy, andobviously have fun.
And it just kind of wasn't feeling that way anymore.
So I had made the decision to put my two weeks in and the way it works there is they like,basically, if you have any little bit of like requests or clientele, they
Basically, I was done that day because they don't want you taking your clients with you,which I totally get that.
(15:45):
I don't know if things have changed nowadays with anything like that, but it was a littlebit, I felt badly bang.
Yeah, sure.
After that amount of time.
Now really quick about the missing birthdays and such that you it's an employmentsituation, right?
I mean, they employ you on an hourly basis and were you getting any commission or was itjust like 12 bucks an hour?
(16:13):
I think it was like $12 an hour and I'm pretty sure I was making I think $24,000 when Ileft there a year.
which is obviously you can't even buy yourself coffee, unlivable in expensive places likeMassachusetts or California or any of the others.
(16:34):
It seems like almost everywhere is kind of expensive these days.
okay, um so very, very difficult to make a living at that.
And that's the way they kind of structure their business.
there's nothing wrong with that.
It's just.
at a certain point, if you're a hairdresser with skills, it doesn't make any sense to staythere.
(16:58):
And so you don't like change, you stayed there a while.
Okay, so where'd you go when you left?
So I went to a full service salon after that, completely different atmosphere.
I absolutely loved the owner.
We're still super close.
She treated me like family, which is funny because I always see stuff on social media thatsays like, if your salon calls you family, it's toxic.
(17:20):
I don't wholeheartedly believe that because she was always fabulous to me.
But everyone was on commission.
There was a lot of, not, there were some older women there.
So was definitely an adjustment.
And it was kind of like they would book you whatever and you were taking it.
And I quickly realized I cannot sit here all day and do one blow dry a
(17:48):
Got it.
So you were sitting there and there wasn't enough activity, weren't enough clients.
So how long did you stay there?
That was so I actually ended up being there for seven years.
my god.
You really don't like change, do you?
No, but I'm very grateful for that part of my life because that's where I started toestablish on social media.
(18:15):
ah And now I'm out on my own working at another salon, but I rent the chair and that'sbeen amazing, a total whirlwind, definitely a learning experience.
Okay, so hold on.
So all of that downtime at your seven-year salon, your second salon, allowed you to workon your Instagram.
(18:38):
Yeah, and she was so supportive.
There would be days that I would be like, I want to be famous on Instagram.
And she'd be like, you're going to do it, girl.
I'll make those videos.
So was awesome.
That's cool.
But I imagine you weren't making a lot of money.
I mean, if you weren't doing that many clients and it's commission, that could be reallytroublesome, right?
(19:02):
Because you didn't have an hourly, right?
An hourly wage.
one point I had said to her, I love working here, but I think I'm gonna have to go back toan hourly salon because I just can't afford to pay my bills.
So she was like, why don't you do some assisting?
And I've always been interested in numbers behind the business, social media, just kind oflike, I've always been into photography.
(19:28):
So I always was kind of helping her out along the way.
And then I started Instagram.
And this was like back in the day when you would post the pictures of the hair like comingout of each other, like back to back in the collages.
Um, and it kind of just, I started to learn how to like, you know, maximize my posts ontrying to attract clients out.
(19:54):
I took a liking to doing girls who were like 20 to 25, because then I would see that theywould post my Instagram.
to their stories and then their friends were coming in.
And then I was like, okay, like I love Instagram now and it kind of just evolved fromthere.
Okay.
And so this, this was happening towards the tail end of the second salon or this washappening when you went to the booth rental station.
(20:25):
This happened probably like four years into working at the last salon I was at.
Okay, okay.
yeah, so you got really good at building a clientele.
Did you have to, to get the 20 something year old girls, did you have to like lower yourprices or anything?
(20:47):
Cause sometimes they're not making enough money.
I did a lot of free services, and I know that's controversial in our industry, but Ialways say it comes back around to you tenfold.
There were clients that I would do for free, and now they're paying me today.
And I think things like that go a long way for spreading the word.
(21:11):
They're posting on their social media.
It gives me experience because I still wasn't totally
perfect at doing those services.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, it makes a lot of sense.
You know, it might be controversial, but it works, right?
(21:31):
So I don't know how controversial it really should be.
And I mean, the number of of hairdressers who have built their clients that way are it'sthe end of the list is very, very long, you know, in my experience.
So
Yeah, if it works, it works.
(21:52):
salon owners should look into doing that.
And I even tell any new stylists that come to our classes, I'll say, know, if you're anassistant right now, ask your boss if you can bring models in.
Have your model cover the cost of the color.
And I know that it sucks working on your days off, but you're going to get all of thiscontent and this could lead to literally filling your box.
(22:16):
building your business.
You know, it's an investment, right?
It's an investment of your time.
And that's what a hairdresser has, you know, early in their career is they have time toinvest.
They might not have money to invest, but they have time to invest.
And so that's why it makes a lot of sense.
Okay, so that was working for you.
(22:36):
Okay, so then you move to a chair rental situation.
And is that where you are now?
am, yep.
So we have been there for a little bit longer than a year.
Okay, and it's working.
Yeah, it's honestly fantastic.
It's a lot of work.
And I can see why people say that sometimes leaving a commission salon to go work foryourself doesn't always work out.
(23:00):
I think personally it's working for me just because I feel like I can categorize intobuckets of things I need to do.
But I can see why people love working at commissions salons.
Totally.
All right, so how are you splitting your time these days?
Because I know you're not just behind the chair.
I know you're behind the chair a lot, but I know you're not just behind the chair becauseyou're extremely active on your content creation and some brands have noticed and we here
(23:31):
at the Hair Game Podcast have noticed.
So here you are doing a podcast, you're not behind the chair doing a client.
So talk about how you split your time these days.
So I work four days a week behind the chair, sometimes five if I need to squeeze peoplein.
I think also going back to like kind of my earlier days, I always tried to be fairlyaccommodating to people just because I know like life happens.
(23:56):
I'm the oldest of six kids.
So I just feel like things happen, kids get sick.
So I don't keep a firm cancellation policy.
I also struggle with anxiety.
So I feel like I understand that like life's life.
Um, so I tried to always be accommodating throughout my career, just in general, eventhough if I lose money on the back end of that, again, I feel like it's just a nicer thing
(24:21):
to do.
Um, but I feel like it's been great.
And so I do the four days a week, typically behind the chair.
And then every morning I wake up, start to edit, of type my captions.
So that's usually five days a week I'm doing that.
(24:42):
And then I take Sundays off usually and kind of just have that be my day.
And the other two days I'm usually on meetings, editing, kind of trying to think outsidethe box of what my next plan's gonna be.
And yeah.
Yeah, it looks like you post just about every day, maybe every other, well, no.
(25:10):
I mean, you're pretty much every day.
I mean, you missed a couple days, but what's that?
I would post two times a day, sometimes three times a day.
And kind of as I've got a following, I've tried to make my videos better, and therefore ittakes longer to edit.
(25:31):
So I've really been posting sometimes, usually once a day, but then there will be weeksthat I'll take a few days off.
And yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, you'll have like five days in a row and then maybe you skip a day.
But I mean, more or less, it's pretty much every workday that you're posting, which isvery impressive.
And your videos are not just you holding the camera there behind your client's head.
(25:58):
I mean, like you just...
alluded to, definitely edit, you definitely put time in, you have captions there, veryeducational.
That was the one thing that I got from your page, is it's very educational and I could seewhy, you know, you're
you know, some of the brands have wanted you as an ambassador because uh your audience onInstagram is getting value from, you know, your posts.
(26:28):
One of the reasons I led this conversation with, you know, how good your Instagram is.
So uh you're putting real work into it and it looks like it's paying off.
I love Instagram and I always say I know that it's overwhelming.
Same with TikTok, but I feel like once you see what it can do for you, you're like, I wantmore of that.
(26:50):
And then you kind of start to become addicted, which is kind of, I obviously can be notthe best.
Um, but I think that if you're not using social media in 2025, you're missing out.
Even if you post one time a week, like that could be one client.
(27:10):
It's just part of your job, isn't it?
As a service provider, it's just kind of part of the job.
it boils down to, you know, what kind of career do you want?
You do you want to be making that next level of income?
(27:32):
Do you want to be, you know, honing in on the kind of client you want?
you know, in your chair and all those other things that we talk about all the time thateverybody knows about.
Instagram is a great tool for it.
And, you you said you're addicted to it.
I think this is like a good version of addiction.
(27:52):
I think, you know, you're addicted to being productive, you know, with a highly productivetool that supports your business.
And that's really, really great.
Obviously, the bad part of addiction on something like Instagram is if
You just sit here and scroll cat videos or whatever, you know, for that, that kind of goesin the bucket of entertainment.
(28:14):
You know, if you're addicted to it for, um, know, silly entertainment and you're spendingsix hours a day looking at cat videos, nothing productive about that.
So that's going to cost you.
So I think, I think you're doing great here.
Um, you also, you also educate.
So how often like in person, so how often are you doing that?
(28:36):
So that's definitely something I'm newer to.
I have been doing that usually during the year, not during summer, because I love summer.
I'll try to do it with one class a month minimum.
And this is something that I kind of want to dive into more next year.
The first year of me being rental versus commission was definitely like, oh my god, I haveto go to the hair store and then I have to respond to all these clients.
(29:01):
Like, how am I going to
book there or write my presentation for this class when I have to work a million hours.
So now that I've kind of gotten into a groove, my goal is in the future, definitely moreeducation classes.
Okay, so let's kind of go back to that transition to being an independent and having areply to clients like you just said.
(29:28):
have you delved into different technology tools to kind of make it easier for you?
For example, like online booking.
Like all of a sudden you have to book yourself, right?
Maybe before there was a front desk, now you have to book yourself and there's lots oftools out there to do so.
Have you delved into that yet?
So I do have online booking and I think also having people be able to reach you on socialmedia has helped.
(29:55):
I know that can be a double edged sword because they're messaging at all times of thenight.
But I've tried to tell all of my clients, here's my online booking.
It's open 24 seven.
If you book it and I see that something's incorrect that you booked, I'll reach out toyou.
So that's been a really positive tool to have is the online booking for sure.
(30:17):
Okay, anything else that you've kind of found that's helpful in your transition toindependence?
I think being prepared, knowing that it's not gonna be always like sunshine andbutterflies.
uh Just knowing that like, you are going to be doing everything.
(30:38):
There's no one to help.
that, let me rewind.
Not that there's no one to help you, but before I had an assistant, if something wentwrong, I had a manager, the owner of the salon, the receptionist.
So it was definitely interesting in that aspect, but I really do think the online bookingreally helped me out.
(31:01):
Totally.
And of course you can get an assistant now.
ah You know, when you feel like your business has gotten to that point, ah you know, maybeit requires a little bit of, uh you know, altering your schedule, maybe, you know, booking
more people at the same time or whatever.
Yeah, have you considered that?
(31:23):
So one thing I've been loving is kind of just spending time one-on-one with my clients andkind of slowing it down a little bit.
And I think that's where the luxury of social media has come in because I know that I haveanother income or a few from the social media on the side.
And I think that it's honestly like elevated my game behind the chair because I'm notlike, my God, God, I this haircut so I can pay my rent.
(31:50):
Whereas
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna deliver my clients the results they deserve.
And it's okay if I'm booking a few less people because one, I'm recording them to post onmy social media.
And I feel like that's kind of filling that gap of me not double booking.
Interesting, that makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
(32:11):
And I'm sure your clients 100 % appreciate that.
You're elevating your service and that's what it's all about at the end of the day, theexperience for the client.
Talk about pricing.
Have you changed your pricing from when you went to the commission to now as anindependent?
(32:32):
So actually going to be raising my pricing within the next few weeks.
Nothing crazy.
I just haven't raised them in a year.
I try to do a yearly or a little bit over a year.
I try to do a yearly update.
The salon I came from had a structure in place where if you were a certain percent booked,then you would move up to the next level.
(32:53):
And I've noticed in some of the classes we've taught that if you're not constantly raisingyour prices, even the slightest,
you end up falling behind.
And then you're kind of too far behind.
And it's like raising them just $5 isn't going to do anything, but you can't raise them 40because then you're going to lose clients.
So I feel like these are just things I've learned over the years to kind of like stay withthe market, stay with your demographic.
(33:20):
And, you know, when you're putting out the work of what your prices are, your clients feellike it's worth it, they'll still stick with you.
Absolutely, and this is something we've been talking about for a long time, especially thelast two or three years since inflation has reared its ugly head, like real inflation,
right?
(33:40):
So we had, you two to 3 % inflation kind of through the 20 teens and then COVID and thenboom, right?
We're like 7%, 8 % inflation with a lot of consumer.
like grocery products and stuff we've seen 10, 15, 20 % inflation.
(34:00):
And so you just kind of have to keep up with the economy.
I mean, the nature, the value of our currency, you know, which loses value every year tothe tune of these days, you know, let's call it three to 4 % per year.
If you're not increasing your prices by about that, then
(34:22):
you're making essentially less money.
You're making the same dollar amount, but that dollar amount is buying you less.
You know, it's paying for less of an apartment.
It's buying you fewer groceries at the grocery store.
All the things, all the things, right?
It's buying you less of a Netflix subscription, right?
(34:45):
Which used to be like $7 and now it's like $18, right?
And that happened in like five years.
Right?
So it's, um, to keep, kind of keep an eye on what's going on around us and recognize it,not in like a high anxiety way.
Oh, we have to worry about it.
We have to fret, you know, just recognize it and recognize that this is just very commonand, has, and has usually been this way across history.
(35:15):
So, I think our industry, the data that I see we've gotten better.
In the last three years or so, we've gotten better at having good kind of inflationadjusted price increases.
So, you know, good on us.
Unfortunately, not all the clients are, um have been readily accepting of it.
(35:40):
um Which is, which I think is just a hangover from the client's experience going back 20years.
And look, I have conversations with my dude friends who are like, you know, pay more than$40 for a haircut.
No way.
I've been paying $40, you know, ever since I've been an adult and I'm like, okay, wellthat $40 buys you half as much at the grocery store as it did 15 years ago.
(36:11):
So how can you sit here and tell me that it makes sense that you're, you should still onlyhave to pay $40 for a haircut, right?
Some consumers believe that their haircut or their hair service or whatever shouldcontinue to be the same price because that's what they experienced maybe for the first 10
years of adulthood, you know, since they started paying for the hair services themselves,you know, before that, their parents paid for it.
(36:37):
um And so it's kind of, it's kind of training the clients.
It's training the consumer.
um
Absolutely.
And I think that so far, like many of my clients have been OK with my price increases.
(37:01):
It was actually interesting.
So when I worked at Super Cuts, I think the haircut was $14.95.
And then if you wanted to shampoo, I think it was like $3 more.
And so many people didn't want the shampoo because of $3.
So then when I went to the Cuts salon, my haircut was $45, which I was like, oh my God, noone's going to pay that.
(37:22):
I had a lot of people, not a lot, but in my mind, I had a lot of people follow me that Ithought would freak out.
So I think that when you show your worth, and I've always been willing to meet my clientsin the middle, like now my haircuts are $88.
But it's also been like nine years later, which is crazy going from like $15 to $88.
(37:50):
But you're also getting a shampoo, a blowout.
And then if someone maybe doesn't want to blow out, I now offer a wet cut price.
And anyone that gives me pushback, I'm, I feel like I'm kind of very friendly with myclients in the sense of they'll say something sarcastic, like, who do you think you are?
Like a rocket scientist?
(38:10):
And I'm like, well, clearly I am if you're in my chair and you know, kind of make it likeyou can go anywhere, but you're still here because you like the way I chip into your side.
And if you go to somewhere that's charging less, you're probably not going to have yoursides chipped into.
Right.
100%.
And this reminds me of the four SWs, which I talk about now and then, but maybe notenough.
(38:35):
Some will, in other words, clients, some clients will, some clients won't.
So what?
Someone's waiting.
And so there's going to be clients who are not willing to pay $88.
There's the clients who are willing to pay you $88.
And those are the ones who continue to come to you.
As far as filling the gaps,
(38:57):
with new clientele out there in the public.
There's going to be some people who aren't willing to pay $88, but there's a lot of peoplewho are willing to pay $88 who want what you have to give.
And so your job is to find those people.
It's to put yourself out there in the places where those people are so they can find you.
(39:18):
And this kind of like, you know, ties the bow on this conversation where you've done agood job.
on Instagram of being where those people are who are willing and able to pay $88 for areally great service.
Yeah, definitely.
(39:38):
And I know that obviously in this economy, which is so funny saying that like the otherday, one of my clients was like, she has three kids in this economy.
So it's just like, kind of a funny saying, but I do always try to say, like, if peoplegive pushback, explain to your client, not exactly like what the hair color costs.
(40:01):
But for an example, one of my clients who's been with me for a while, she was like, Ican't believe you charge that.
And I was like,
I have to pay for my health insurance, my building rent, which this isn't something I putout on social media because I think when you, sometimes I see some things that are like
kind of crazy, which I wouldn't be putting on social media.
But when you have a more personal conversation with your client, then they're like, Ididn't even think of that.
(40:25):
Like I didn't know that you had to pay for your health insurance.
And then it's kind of not so much like, oh my God, you turned to me $88.
And it's kind of just like, that's what a business is.
It's what a business is exactly right.
And it's unfortunate that you have to have that conversation, such a basic, common sensebit of information that you need to give your client.
(40:51):
But it's great that you're able to do that with your personality and your relationshipwith the client.
You're able to do that in a good, kind, soft, informative, uh fun way and remind them that
You're a human too.
And it's frustrating me always when I see, in California, we love to increase the minimumwage and things like that.
(41:20):
And everybody's like, yes, fast food workers should be making $25 an hour from $15 an hourin one year.
And they should be able to do this.
They should be able to do that.
And then when a hairdresser tries to increase their price $5, that same person who wassaying, yes, fast food workers should be able to make 20, that same person is like, I not,
(41:45):
you don't need to make an extra $5 for this service that takes an hour and a half.
And it's like, wait, what?
know, people have this kind of perception about what people, what others should be earningand, uh, except when it is going to affect what they pay.
Right.
percent.
(42:07):
I see you all the time.
you see it all the time.
So it's good to remind them.
It's good to remind them.
And I don't want to discount the pressure on the consumer.
I think it is important to recognize general pressure on the consumer that prices havegone up, like we've said.
(42:29):
You know, there are certain other elements within kind of the consumer experience of thelast two or three years.
that are super annoying.
I understand the pressure on the consumer, but you as a hairdresser, me as a consumer, allof us in the beauty industry, we're also consumers who are receiving the same pressure of
(42:51):
inflation.
So why should we
suffer the consequences of having to absorb all of these increasing prices withoutincreasing our prices to an inflationary degree, right?
And so that's kind of what it boils down to.
So I love the fact that you said that about, you know, reminding clients that, hey, you'realso a person in this economy, you're a small business, and you're just trying to keep up
(43:18):
with expenses.
Totally.
And kind of another thing that goes back to social media, I feel like, so the area I livein, it's very suburb.
We're about like 45 minutes away from Boston.
And it's kind of just like, I feel like you're average, maybe like a little bit highermiddle class, but mainly middle class.
(43:41):
And I feel like there's a lot of blue collar workers.
And I think
specifically in this area because so many people take the train to the city to work.
If you didn't go to college, you're kind of looked down upon.
And I don't know if that's kind of like a world or a countrywide or worldwide thing.
But I feel like the moment I got on social media, it almost helped my value behind thechair.
(44:08):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, first of all, Massachusetts, obviously, maybe not obviously, but it is a center ofhigher education in the world, right?
You got MIT, you got Harvard, you have some of the institutions of highest renown there.
(44:30):
And also, I think last time I looked,
one of the greatest, one of the highest percentages of people with graduate degrees and anupper level education.
So not surprised at all that you're experiencing that.
I'm not so sure you're going to find that quite as much in other parts of the country.
However, you're talking about your credibility as a professional and doing as well asyou're doing on Instagram has given you that credibility uh as a professional.
(44:59):
And I think it's just
Another reason why it's worth being addicted and I'm doing air quotes for the listenersnot the watchers, but the listeners air quotes Why why having an addiction to being
productive on Instagram is a hundred percent worth the investment?
Totally and for like the newer stylist I think a lot of the ways you word things onInstagram people want things that are in demand and also people that are in demand and I
(45:27):
think it's kind of like a Natural habit that if you seem booked people are gonna want tosee you more because they're one like my god She must be good.
She's booked and two I think it's just that natural like I want what I can't have so Ifeel like
making that kind of known in a humble way on social media also makes people want to eitherfollow you, book with you, take classes from you.
(45:55):
So I think that's also like another tool.
That's definitely next level.
That's next level branding and credibility, creation and reputation building and all ofthat kind of stuff, what you're talking about there.
And it deals with social proof.
Social proof is kind of this, I don't know if it's like psychology or whatever, but asconsumers, sometimes we are, if,
(46:25):
If it seems like something is in high demand, that's called social proof.
In other words, we think, okay, well, all of the other people in my social network, youknow, want this one thing and that one thing must be really good.
So if you can create, you know, uh a sense of social proof for your services as aprofessional, I mean, the power of that is enormous.
(46:50):
So...
So how do you do that?
How do you do that on it?
How do you do that?
This is actually a question for you.
How do you do that?
You know, with your page.
So I think going back to offering the free services and that also will help you.
I always say this too, try to not niche yourself too much too early because for anexample, I made my Instagram name, Vivids and Bolliage.
(47:15):
I basically do neither of them now.
But at the time, I mean, I do Vivids more for fun and I do more of like foillage versusBolliage.
If I could go back, I would totally change my Instagram name.
But at the time, I thought I was going to be in Boston, like painting art murals thatlooked like people's hair.
(47:36):
So at the time, it was a great name.
So I feel like offering free services to not only show your work, but to figure out morewhat you love.
And I feel like when you're doing it for discounted or free, you kind of have more freerein.
So that was definitely something.
that kind of got me going.
And then I also feel like when you have one video blow up and it will go breezy for noreason, that can do so much for you.
(48:06):
So I feel like kind of going in that direction with, you know, using Instagram to makeyourself seem more, I don't wanna say more valuable than you are, but kind of like,
back off what you're doing in the real world.
Yes, you're creating, you're showing value.
(48:28):
You know, whether it's more valuable than you are or whatever, it really is, the essenceof it is you're showing your value to people.
uh New potential clients, you know, they're going on there, they're seeing it, oh, she'san educator.
look at how she's educating other hairstylists.
She's putting all these little like captions and...
(48:50):
um, lines on, you know, this client's head in order so other hairdressers can learn thistechnique.
You know, she must, she's an authority really.
That's what it boils down to, isn't it?
Like she, she has, she's an authority for this particular service and she must be reallygreat.
So I'm going to try her.
(49:11):
I think that it boils down to that and everybody can, can learn from such a thing.
I think these are great lessons.
And also showing yourself more because obviously there's a million hairstylists in theworld and especially in my area.
There's like, I think maybe 10 plus salons in the town I work in and it's like really notthat big of a town.
(49:33):
So I feel like connecting with people on a personal level is so important these days.
I've really kind of gone into that in the last two and a half years, getting comfortable,showing my face, talking.
I know that every time we teach, people are like, I just hate hearing the sound of my ownvoice.
And I'm like, girl, trust me.
I get dragged on social media for it every day.
(49:57):
And it sounds so cliche, but I always say, haters are your motivators, because it's sotrue.
Yeah, 100%.
100%.
You're doing a great job of it.
All right, if I handed you a wand and Queen Steph waves this wand and you can changeanything about the industry at all, what would it be?
(50:23):
I think it would be, and I even am waving the swan at myself to be more authentic in thesense of I come across as this like super powerful person on Instagram, very confident,
but I struggle with everything that everyone else does as far as like mental healthbalance.
(50:45):
And I feel like sometimes it's hard to talk about that on social media, not because Idon't want people to know it, but it's just kind of like,
finding the place to share that or put it on my feed.
So I think just more realism.
it...
Right.
I love that you said that.
(51:06):
Where...
Kind of...
Where's the threshold where it becomes valuable for you to express that?
And not necessarily valuable to you to express it to your audience, but valuable to youraudience for you to express it to them.
I think that...
(51:27):
You know the general comment that you had that you have self-doubt you have anxiety andyou have concerns and you have all these things It's very human.
I think it's very common Who knows where you fall on the spectrum versus like the averageperson?
None of us know right because none of us are in each other's heads but um the the the realkind of
(51:51):
being transparent about maybe struggles that you have that can be valuable to youraudience in the right context.
And so only you know like where or when, how much, you know, to share and in a hope that,you know, it's going to help somebody else maybe realize that they're not the only ones
(52:15):
that have self-doubt or imposter syndrome or
that constant sense of anxiety and you know of like oh shit another day and what's goingto happen and all this stuff.
So I love the fact that you mentioned that.
And I always say and I teach this in the social media classes that I teach Which I'm likethis is hilarious because I'm teaching a social media class but I always say a lot of what
(52:40):
you see online is fake and whether that's because You know my Instagram page technicallyis my business page.
So if I'm having a terrible day I'm not gonna go on my stories and rant about it as muchas I would love to
I still have to remain professional.
I'm working with brands.
I built relationships.
(53:01):
So I feel like you said, of just finding the balance of realness.
And because I am myself on my Instagram page, but I would say maybe not my whole self.
And that's probably a lot of other styles.
Sure.
I'm not sure any Instagram should have all of our whole selves on there.
(53:23):
%!
1000 %!
That would be a scary place.
it's a balance.
think you've a uh nice balance with it.
uh And then, you you just kind of have to feel out if it's ever valuable to your audienceto mention anything more.
(53:44):
I think that it could definitely be too much.
it's like, my gosh, the audience is like, she's...
It could feel like complaining, right?
About your anxiety and all this kind of stuff.
like, I'm not so sure that's, you know, in too, too often it's, it's not valuable and, orentertaining or informative or helpful, you know, to your audience.
(54:08):
I do kind of want to fly off the handle on social media, I do try to remember this is mybusiness.
So even like the other day with something so simple, I was at a grocery store and I wasbacking out of the parking spot.
And my new pet peeve is when you're like three quarters out of the way of the spot andsomeone's walking behind you.
And it's like, I'm in a car and you're on foot, like what do think is gonna happen?
(54:33):
And I'm going to make a TikTok about like five things that annoy me because at the time itsounded funny.
And by the time I got home, I'm like, what would that accomplish?
Literally nothing.
Well, it depends how good of a TikTok it is.
mean, there's, you know, there's rants kind of ugly and there's rants funny.
(54:58):
And, and of course, that's a very fine line between those two things.
I mean, you just mentioning that I laughed because I experienced that too.
And that's also super annoying.
that you're three quarters out of the parking space and the person on foot keeps walkingbecause they don't want to wait, you know, the eight seconds for you to get out of.
(55:25):
And of course, you know, if you have a car with a camera in the back, you can see thatthey're like on their phone.
They're not even watching.
And you're like, okay, I'm about to kill this person.
You know, maybe they should put the phone down and recognize
you know, that it's a dangerous situation.
So I mean, it's funny, you know, so as long as you can execute, you know, this piece ofmeme content, you know, in a funny way versus like an ugly ranting way, then it's gonna be
(55:57):
funny.
Yeah, so things like that.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So, you do have good videos like that, by the way.
I've talked about uh your educational videos and stuff where your personality comes out,but your personality comes out especially on your kind of meme videos, and you like
sprinkle the the salon mostly, meme videos throughout your page, is fun.
(56:23):
I try to do that just to kind of keep it fun.
And like my new way of trying to attract clients is now that my books are full, I'm kindof going for more like people that I actually mesh with personality wise, people that
might want to make a TikTok, people that will let me record their hair.
Cause not only am I like loving being behind the chair, eventually I want to start like myown private education, whether that be virtual or more in-person classes.
(56:51):
So I'm just kind of trying to.
see what newness I can attract just by showing more funnier videos.
Totally.
No, I think it's great.
Do you have any hare or horse stories that you can share with us?
my God, I have a couple.
So probably my first one was at Supercut and honestly still till this day, cutting a veryblunt bob I think is like one of the hardest things to do.
(57:21):
And this girl had super long hair and I was always the chatter and I think a lot of timesit's just to like ease the awkward silence.
Like I will chat to you about like what your grandma is doing later.
Um, so we're chatting away.
She had super long hair and she wanted like a little bit above the shoulder of a bob.
So I'm like cutting away and all of sudden I'm like, shit, this is getting so short.
(57:45):
And she looks up in the mirror and she goes, my God, my hair is so short.
It was probably to her chin at this point.
And I'm like,
hold on, hold on.
So wait, did you say, my God, it's so short?
Or did you think, my God, it's so short?
was thinking that, like panicking and trying to win her over with this conversationbecause I knew it was bad.
(58:09):
So she looks in the mirror, she starts crying, and then my boss comes over, I'm crying,and she left with a very, very short bob.
God, does she let you finish it at least?
no, no.
So a very short half-finished bob.
(58:31):
Yeah, so that was really, really bad.
And obviously that like regressed any progression I've made.
You know, I'm sitting here thinking who goes into super cuts for kind of a transitionalhaircut into kind of a medium length bob.
(58:55):
Like that's, and I know my listeners are thinking the same thing, but.
And I don't mean to sound like a snob.
mean, obviously, Supercuts has great things and, you know, we have good hairstylists atSalon Republic who came from Supercuts and they've, their careers have advanced amazingly
and they've been very successful.
But I don't know, that seems very optimistic as a client to go in there for that kind of aservice.
(59:22):
Yeah, even looking back, like some of the people that would come in for corrective colorthat at the time I didn't even know what that was.
I'm like, why would you ever go to super cuts for that?
Right?
Well, you tried and you learned, and I'm sure that you learned from that experience andprobably haven't made that mistake again.
No, I haven't.
(59:42):
And still to this day when I'm cutting a bob, I'm like, OK, you need to focus.
And because when it's out that length, you can see everything.
ah So I still kind of am slightly traumatized from that moment.
It's so funny.
We haven't had a good Bob horror story in years.
I want to say most of our horror stories are like, you know, chemical, chemical horrorstories, right?
(01:00:09):
So this was, that was a good one.
liked that.
I've had like, this was probably five years ago, I let this girl process for way too long,I was double booked.
And I have never seen hair that was so melted off.
Like, I thought that there was like a malfunction with the light in our and I'm at thestage just pulling out clumps and clumps.
(01:00:31):
And there used to be this guy that works there and he was like, okay, like, convinced herto flat iron her hair.
And
I mean, I still do her hair till this day, but it was not good at all.
It was just kind of a learning button.
God, it seems like almost everybody's had that experience.
(01:00:53):
Any last words for the community?
No, I think that I'm so lucky to be part of this industry.
And I think that I always say whatever you put in, you get out.
So if you want to work 20 hours a week and that's it, you're going to probably have a 20hour a week salary.
(01:01:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Wise words.
I love it.
Thank you, Steph.
It's so great talking to you.
You too.
Thank you for having me on.
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