Ep. 416 • A Family Legacy of Hairdressing w/ Denise Mahoney - The Hair Game

Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
The Hair Game (00:00)
Hi Denise, how are you?
Denise Mahoney (00:02)
I'm great, how are you doing?
I'm doing awesome. for the listeners, Denise and I were just complaining about our respective weathers, which is pure comedy because she's in Portland, Oregon, and she was complaining about how hot it was. I went onto the weather and it was 73 degrees there. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you can't complain when it's 70.
But you have
to tell them it was 100 degrees for the last three days, so we're still recovering. Thank you.
Yes, I was going to salvage your reputation. Yes, there is a
reason why she was complaining. It is, there is some residual mugginess. Anyway, all the Texans and the Floridians and the Southerners are laughing at us right now because it's like 78 where I am. So this is about as good as it gets. All right, well, we've already given away the fact that you're in Portland, Oregon, and you're a hairdresser who specializes in balayage and lived in color.
Totally.
Yes, absolutely.
Yes.
and you've finished high in one shot awards multiple times. You're a modern salon top 100 artist. You're an educator. You teach ⁓ hand painting and air touch techniques. And I think you've got some sponsorships in there, but I'm not exactly sure. You can of course tell us about that as we talk. But I wanna start with where you're from originally and how you got into this business.
Correct.
Well, I think I have a pretty good story. ⁓ I'm from Portland, Oregon. I've been here my whole life. I actually lived in Hawaii for one year, but otherwise I've been here. ⁓ I was born here. So.
Amazing, hold on, I have to know
about living in Hawaii because, I mean, who doesn't want to live in Hawaii? So how do you get to be there for a year and how do you peel yourself away?
Well, both my parents are hairdressers. And when my parents split up when I was young, my dad ended up moving to Hawaii. So he had a salon there on Maui. And so when I was 18 or so, 19, I went there for a year and worked in his salon. So it was a great opportunity. And it just seems like my family kind of resonates to Hawaii. My brother has been there for 42 years, and he is also a hairdresser.
Wow. Wow.
So I was going to say part of your question of how I got into the industry is both my parents are hairdressers. My grandmother was also a hairdresser, so I am third generation. And my brother, as I mentioned, is a stylist also. And so all four of us in my immediate family all do hair.
Wow.
That is super cool. And as many times as we've done this podcast and as many times as I've had conversations with hairdressers at salon Republic or wherever, I'm not sure I've ever spoken to anybody whose entire immediate immediate family are hairdressers, which is really, really neat. ⁓
Always my fun
fact when I do a class. That's my fun fact.
Yeah, it's
super cool. You know, we have many people in our industry who they had one parent or the other who is a hairdresser or a grandmother, certainly, and they spent time in their youth in salons. you guys are just all in. ⁓ So not so cool that your parents split up, but cool that you got some time to spend in Hawaii. And just curious, which part of Maui?
Mm-hmm.
All in.
Kihei.
Kihei is on the southern side, is that right? Yes. And ⁓ it's not near Wylea. Wylea is, well, Wylea is, I mean it's near. It's what?
Yes.
No, it is near Wailua. Yes,
it's on the Wailua side. Yeah, not on the Kanapali side.
It's on the Wailayas side, right.
That's right, that's right. So it's an amazing place. Sometimes I call it Howley Island, know, Maui, because there's just so many mainlanders there. You go over there. The last time I was there, it's been years, unfortunately, but last time I was there, I remember we ran into a couple neighbors when we were there. It was just kind of like, it was kind of like, you know, a backyard for California and maybe West Coasters.
⁓ Yes, that is so true.
Isn't that crazy?
It's just so easy to get there, especially from California. But it's easy to get there from here, too.
Right. And so I've always been curious. I've known some Hawaiian hairdressers, but I've never really asked a lot of questions of them. The business of being behind the chair, the experience of being behind the chair has to be somewhat different. Of course, there's residents of Hawaii and Maui, so you're gonna have those, but is there also like a... ⁓
like a tourist sort of element to somebody's clientele and there must be some seasonality to it as well.
Absolutely. I know back when I worked there and it was a long time ago, ⁓ excuse me, back when I worked there, which was a long time ago, it was very seasonal and you'd have tourists that would come for certain months of the year and they would be your clients and they would come back and see you when they were on the island. And then you would have kind of a handful of locals that live there all the time that would be your regular clients.
So you definitely have a busy season and a slower season. I don't know if that's so much the case anymore. I know one of the challenges I had being a hairdresser there is that people don't care about their hair quite the same as they do here. Because, you know, I'm going to, don't dry me, just I'm running to the beach after this, you know. So that part is a little bit hard, you know, just to get that priority that the hair would be for them.
Right.
Right.
Yeah. Right.
Right. mean, the lifestyle doesn't really accommodate finely styled hair, does it?
Exactly.
And that really ⁓ client that just wants to be looking perfect all the time, you don't see that as much over there. I'm sure it's there, but not as common.
Right.
Not as common. you've got the humidity. I mean, my hair, you can see that it's curly. It's also bleached. Okay. So, you know, my hair is like a hygrometer. You know, when I hit the ground in Hawaii, everybody knows it just by looking at my hair. Everybody who knows me at least knows it by looking at my hair because I turned into like a Chia pet. And ⁓ yeah, it just changes everything. ⁓
Yes, mine is too, so.
Yeah.
Yep.
Hahaha!
Product
is huge for over there. Product and leaving your hair dirty helps my curls a ton in Hawaii. So let that salt and sunscreen and all that just make it work for you.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
So how does it work with pricing? I imagine the, you know, there's ⁓ obviously different income levels on Hawaii. You know, you have people who service the tourism industry. They work at hotels and stuff like that. Maybe their incomes are not that high. Then you have other people who are maybe retired and they're somewhat wealthy. You know, they have vacation homes there and stuff like that. How does...
Thank
Yes.
pricing work there. I mean, do you have it almost seems like It would be tempting to have multiple prices But you know, you can't really do that. So how do you do that?
No,
again, it's hard for me to speak to it now because I know things have changed a lot since I was living there, but my brother still lives there and still does hair there. And I know that for him, like he has done different things where he's worked in some of the resort hotels one or two days a week, and then he has his own little salon. So I think he kind of caters to both demographics that way. So he's in the hotel, maybe at the Four Seasons.
Hmm
Makes sense.
doing hair for weddings and events, and he's got this high-end clientele. And then he goes back to his little salon and does his local clientele. So that's, think, what works for him. Yes, definitely.
Right. Which are going to be lower priced. I imagine prices in a salon are
lower priced. If you're at the Four Seasons, you're charging through the roof because everything at the Four Seasons or any high-end resort, you have vacationers and vacationers' wallets are a little looser than locals. Yeah. So it's
Absolutely.
Totally. You just expect
things to be more expensive there.
Exactly. It's very interesting.
Okay, so you were there for a year and then you, before you went, well, let's see, how old were you when you were there? 18, you said, something like that?
I was there, I guess I said 18, but it was probably closer to 20.
Okay, but you had your license already. Okay, so then you left. Why did you leave?
Mm-hmm.
You know, I love the islands and like I said, I grew up going there because my dad lived there for many, many years. And I absolutely love it. I almost think of it as a second home, but working there was not ideal. And I found myself so poor when I was there trying to afford to be there that you just sort of work to live. And I got tired of that pretty fast. And my mom was still here in Oregon, had a successful salon. And so it just made sense to come back.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
and work with her and so that's what I did.
So you took a chair in her salon. Okay. And are you still working with her?
Yes, I worked with her.
I still work in the same salon, yes, but my mom has passed away. ⁓ She had the salon for 25 years. And then ⁓ about 21 years ago, my husband and I took it over. And so we've had it now for 21 years. so we are going, actually, that's not true. She had it for 17 years and I've had it for 21 years. And we are going on our 40th anniversary this December.
wow.
Amazing, amazing. What a great story that is. And so you've had so many memories in that salon.
Yeah.
I do because you know the crazy thing is that location is the same location that my parents had their first salon. They, when I was growing up as a kid, no, I know, I know.
my god, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me wrap
my hands around this. Okay, okay, so hold on, wait, you're not your parents, but your grandparents? Okay.
No, no, my parents
had their first salon in a location that my salon is in now, but it is a different salon.
Okay, but it's the same space. Okay.
the same space. They
started it there, and it was called Dardenne for Darlene and Dennis, named after them. And when they divorced, my mother moved into another location on her own. And then after 10 years, was looking for another spot to open a salon, and our original location was available again. And so she moved back there.
Okay, yep.
Okay, so the 40 years,
the 40 years is just the most recent ⁓ time. you've actually, you have experience with that location going back maybe, or a total of 60 years maybe. I mean, and so when you were a kid, was that the salon that you were going into? my God. I mean, that's, that's extraordinary. I mean, it really is. And I imagine you've renovated the salon multiple times.
Yes.
Yes, 60 years.
Yes, that's what's so crazy about it.
Exactly, and you take off a mirror, you take something off the wall, and there's that old fuzzy wallpaper from the 70s that my parents had. And that was really fun. Yes, I remember.
that you remember from the depths
of your memory. ⁓ And so it's almost like a house, isn't it? I mean, some of us have parents who are older and they're still living in the same house that we were maybe born in. And all of those memories are so thick and ⁓ powerful. It's like your salon is that.
Mm.
Yes.
It is. And I brought my dad in there one time when he was still alive and I said, dad, walk me through how the salon was set up back when it was dart in. Cause I can't totally remember as a kid. And so it was really cool to kind of remember where everything was. You know, they had a men's room back then because men weren't in the salon. ⁓ so it was a little barber shop in the back that men could get their hair cut. And there was a big dryer room where there was
Hmm.
hood dryers lined up, like 20 of them, because everybody had shampoo sets back then. So it was fun to kind of remember the nostalgia of how it was back then.
Absolutely, that's so cool. And do you have pictures from when you were little in that space?
There are some around somewhere for sure. I've seen them over the years. I don't know exactly where they are now, but for sure.
Yeah.
That's really,
really neat. Okay, so you're there now. You've renovated it. It's new and everything, but that has been your home for, it sounds like your entire life. That's amazing.
Most of my career for sure.
Okay, so you built a clientele when you came back from Maui and moved into your mom's salon. I imagine you built a clientele then. Okay. And ⁓ was your mom kind of like your mentor? Yeah.
Yes.
Always. She was always
my mentor. Yes.
And so what did you learn? What are the key things that you learned from her?
You know, it's fun because some of the things I learned from her I still use today, which is so great. So my mom was very innovative. And you have to remember when we opened that salon or she opened that salon, it was 85 and 1985. So everybody was still perming hair back then. And she opened a salon called the Color Authority. And nobody was really coloring hair very much back then.
1985.
But she was fascinated with hair color, and she was always very, very interested in hair color. And she was a founding member of an organization called the International Hair Color Exchange that was big in like the 90s and probably the 2000s. That was ⁓ advanced education for the existing hairdresser because there wasn't a lot of that available then. So she was bringing, when people were still pulling hair through a cap, she was teaching how to foil.
hair with foils, had highlight hair with foils. And so I learned that from her. And I remember being in beauty school and them only doing highlights through a cap. And I said, why would I want to learn to do that if I already know how to foil hair? So me and one of the instructors ended up teaching the whole school how to foil hair. And it was so fun because I had learned that from my mom so early in the industry.
Amazing.
So that was kind of a fun story. And another thing that she taught me that I use all the time is, and it's kind of come back as it's called a Scandi hairline. But back in the day, all her highlighted blondes, she would paint a little lightener right on those little baby hairs around the face and only leave it on for two minutes because you don't want to shift it so much that it brings too much warmth into the hair.
In the front.
And that trend, I have done that ever since I learned it from her. And it's so funny because when the Scandi hairline came into trend, it's a little different and maybe left on a little longer because trends change as they evolve. But I've had so many people come back and say to me, know, older hairdressers, I learned that from your mom. And it's like, yep, I still do it.
Amazing. Wow.
What's your mom's name?
Her name was Darlene Hacola.
Arlene Hicola. And so she was advanced and we're talking about the mid 80s. I mean, she probably started working in the 70s. ⁓ Probably if I'm doing my math right. how, and the educational opportunities back then were few and far between compared to especially what we have now where everything is available at your fingertips, you know, for good or bad, right? Everything is available at your fingertips.
very much.
Absolutely.
⁓ yeah, online, yes.
And sometimes we have the paradox of choice where there's 3,000 different sources of education and how do you choose the right one, right? Back then it was like, all right, there's three organizations available giving ⁓ this type of education and you have to like call them on the phone or whatever and you get videos, you know, whatever, or you have to fly somewhere and do it, you know, in person. ⁓ How did she become so advanced?
Exactly.
.
You know, I just think she had such a passion for it. You know, she has a story that she would tell that when she was young, she was a piano player and she became a very advanced pianist and had an opportunity to get a Fulbright Scholarship at a pretty prestigious music college. And ⁓ she decided that she didn't want that. And so she stopped playing the piano after, you know, playing her whole life.
And she went to beauty school. like I said, her mother was a hairdresser. So her dad wasn't very happy about that because he loved the fact that she was going to be a pianist. And ⁓ she put the same passion that she had in her music into hairdressing. So she was very, very talented. And she just was passionate about it. And she, like I said, even before hair color was really trendy, she used to take
all her clients and like she'd do a haircut or she'd do a style on them and she would just put a little bit of hair color in the recession area just to see what it would do. And she'd just kind of experiment and learn from doing those things and became a really well respected colorist.
So we didn't talk about your grandparents. They were hairdressers as well. Okay. Your grandmother was a hairdresser in Portland. And did your mom work at her salon?
Not my grandfather, but my grandmother. In Portland.
She did not, because my parents actually met in beauty school, in a cosmetology school, and they ended up graduating right from cosmetology school and opening their first salon together. So my grandmother's salon, though, was just a little small salon she had by herself, and it was called The Lipstick, which I think is so adorable.
my gosh, wow.
That is very cute. The lipstick. That's amazing. ⁓ And ⁓ very interesting that your parents got out of a cosmetology school and started and opened up their first salon. How many times are we told that that's impossible? That you can't do that.
Mm-hmm.
Well, it
was a different time for sure. And yes, you're right. Now that's a little more unusual for sure.
Yeah, very interesting. mean, it's, you know, I came into the industry in 2000 and so it was very much the idea that somebody coming out of beauty school, there's no way that they could have a full clientele. And so it's Laundry Public. actually didn't really take people out of beauty school for the first, I don't know, 15 years, maybe 12, 14 years ⁓ until Instagram came around. And I remember one of our hair, what a, ⁓
a hairdresser who was applying to ⁓ take a studio at Salon Republic. And she's like, I have a full clientele. She's like, look at my Instagram. we were all just learning about Instagram at the time. And we were like, all right, well, let's take a chance on her. name was Mary. And sure enough, she just started crushing it right out of the gate. She just had a huge friend network and they loved what she did behind the chair.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
Then she ended up taking a second studio, having a big salon. She still has that to this day in Santa Monica. So we realized that things kind of changed from marketing standpoint. That if you're good enough, if your talent merits it, then you can build a clientele very quickly. But interesting to hear in a different generation that your parents were able to do that.
Wow.
That's awesome.
Absolutely.
Yeah, they did. I mean, it was a different time as far as the type of hair that they were doing. ⁓ But yeah, they were very successful.
Wow. So what a neat platform to learn from, ⁓ you know, your mom. Your dad, I'm curious, did he do dudes? Did he have other kind of services that he focused on? Or was he kind of right in there with being on the forefront of chemical services and coloring like your mom?
No, he was definitely ⁓ did mostly women's hair. ⁓ He did, like I said, the bulk of his career was in Hawaii. And then after he moved from Hawaii, he moved to Vegas. And even at 50, when he moved to Vegas, he didn't do hair extensions. But when he moved to Vegas, he saw that need. So he learned to do hair extensions. And there's just a lot more of the show girls and things that wear those. And so he just had a big opportunity there to do that. But I would say my dad wasn't quite
quite as innovative as a hairdresser as my mother was. He kind of did things still, if I would say, I'm going to a class, he'd say, well, haven't you learned that yet? I'd say, yeah, but dad, things change. And it's, you know, I'm learning it in a new way. It's like, sure, I know how to cut it like I did 10 years ago or 20 years ago. I want to learn how to do it, you know, more current. He didn't always understand that.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, it sounds like he, but he was pretty good at adapting. he, he, yeah, he wasn't completely stuck in the mud. Like we know that some in our industry can be. ⁓ I.
Yes.
Yes, no, he was
not. He was very talented, which was an advantage for him.
Right. That's amazing. And how interesting to go from Hawaii to Las Vegas. Very different hair cultures in those two different places. Did he do, and of course Vegas has kind of the same element of being a destination for tourism and travel and things like that. Did he, ⁓ did he focus on, you said show girls and such, but did he focus on the tourists and the
Totally, yes.
and the visitors or the residents.
I think when he moved to Vegas, his focus was definitely more on residents. Yeah.
Okay,
more stable and everything. Las Vegas is much bigger city than Kihei, certainly. And lot of very successful hairdressers in Vegas just doing normal behind the chair clients. ⁓ That's pretty cool.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So how do you split your time now? You've got all these things going. I know you have a robust clientele behind the chair and I know that you're educating and you've got some other things that you're doing. You're producing good content that people like and so how do you split your time these days?
I work a lot, but it's OK because I love it. I still love it so much. ⁓ I usually am behind the chair about four days a week, three days doing my normal clients that I've been doing forever. And then I try to save one or two days that I can do content clients. And once in a while, I can do that with my normal clients. I mean, I'm doing real clients on all my content as well, but I just mean that I have the time to film and.
There are things that I'm actually promoting, which are things that I teach, or maybe brands that I work with. And so I split my time, basically. I mean, I'm still in the salon a lot. But when I'm not in the salon, I'm editing. I am making content. And I'm not educating quite as much as I was in the last couple of years. I just think that it got, I was getting a little overwhelmed.
yeah.
with doing so many things because I was traveling quite a bit with educating. I still absolutely love education. I'm just maybe doing it maybe more through social media than necessarily as in person. But I do have that class coming up in September that will be in person. And I just had somebody that will be here in Portland on September 28th. And that's a hands-on Ballyage class. And then I just had someone actually reach out to me from Northern California that wants to do a class.
Where's that? Okay.
a balayage class. So I'm really open to that. I'm not pursuing it as much, but if somebody pursues me, I'm super open to doing live education.
Very cool. So Portland is a beautiful place. Through COVID though, it had some changes and it was getting, know, people in the rest of the country were seeing some negative things happening there and all that. So how is it, I haven't been up there in a couple of years. At the times that I have been up there, I really loved it. I loved the weather. It was so awesome to see everything green and lush and all that stuff.
No good.
How are things going there now? how is your, have you noticed anything with your client behavior? Have people moved? Is everything stable? Like what's going on?
That's such a big question because honestly, COVID was a time that was a huge shift for so many of us. And I feel like for me personally, it was a huge shift and where I knew that it was time for me to cut back a little bit on client care. And I was doing five days a week of clients, double booking all day with a full-time assistant. I've gone to, like I said, the three days a week doing my regular clients and cut back a ton on, you know,
how many clients I was seeing, and then doing a couple content days. But I've even seen that change in the salon. Like our staff was 20, we had 25 people working with us. We do a hybrid situation where some were employees, some were independent contractors. We've gone down now to eight stylists, and we don't do any support services like ⁓ skincare or nails in the salon.
And I actually really that's working really well for me because it's a little less maintenance for me as a salon owner to have a smaller staff to maintain. So all those changes kind of evolved from COVID. But now on the negative side, those are all positives, I feel like, in that it kind of forced you to look at things a little differently. And I know that was true for so many people.
But on the negative side is we're kind of in an area. right outside of maybe 10 minutes from downtown Portland in what's called Northeast Portland, which is not a great area for Portland right now. We have a lot of homeless. We have encampments around us that we're constantly having to battle. ⁓ Fortunately, we have a good kind of neighborhood little group that we kind of try to manage that together. We're in a good pocket.
⁓ If somebody's sleeping, I'll go ahead.
Well, you might have just been answering the question that I interrupted you to ask, that's really interesting the way you phrased that. So you have a neighborhood group that's managing it together. What does that mean?
No, it's okay.
So we just have some really good businesses that are right around us. And we're all on the same page about not allowing homeless people to camp around us. So we just kind of support each other. Like if it's on their property, I'll let them know if they don't see it, if they're hiding behind a dumpster or something like that. And they'll take care of it if it's on my property. And we kind of give each other permission to actually
Mm-hmm.
even police each other's properties. Like if I see someone on theirs, I'll say, hey, this is private property. You need to move on, you know, something like that.
Wow.
Right.
Do the police, are the police not, ⁓ do they not ask the homeless people to move?
⁓ Eventually, ⁓ if you call, there is a program in place, but it takes a long time. I had someone at my front door one day, and he was not interested in moving. We try to be courteous, offer them a cup of coffee, glass of water.
That was, maybe that was a dumb question.
say we're open for business, we need you to move on. We try not to be nasty or rude. My husband's actually very kind to them. And this guy wasn't interested in moving. And he started howling in front of the business. And so we had called the police. And by the time they finally got there, he had finally left. But he left all his stuff behind. So those are some challenges for sure.
stuff. Okay, so,
and has that impacted like the general challenges of being in that neighborhood with maybe it's deemed unsafe, et cetera? Has that been challenging for business?
I think it at least verbally, as far as what I know verbally, I think it's hurt our staff. We've had people leave because their husbands feel uncomfortable that they work there or that they feel uncomfortable, you know, coming in or out at night. ⁓ It's hurt our staff, I think more than clients. I don't know. It could have affected clients. I just don't know about.
Right, right, yeah, well that's too bad. Okay, well in terms of what's going on with just client behavior in general in Portland as far as you've been able to witness with your own clients or your staff's clients, are clients still coming in at the normal rate? Are they complaining about pricing? Are they, any changes?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yeah, pricing's been a challenge, I think, for everybody. ⁓ And I think most people understand whether it's, they just have to make a choice, whether it's something they want to spend their money on. But they understand why pricing has had to go up. It's just, again, making that choice, maybe coming in a little less often. I've really moved my business, as I said, from kind of doing that maintenance work of a client every four weeks or every six weeks to seeing people every three to four months.
Those are the clients that I take now. If I take any new clients at all, that's the client I'll take. And so that helps because they're coming in less often. And so if it's maybe the ticket's a little higher, they know they're going to get some time out of it.
So the gray coverage clients are not coming in as much?
They are, but I'm talking about my own personal clientele. I'm just not building that kind of client right now. But I would say, no, gray coverage clients are still a staple in the salon. And we have clients calling every day looking for a stylist. I would say if I have a problem right now, I don't have anybody to give a client to. So that's a good problem to have.
amazing.
Of course it is. And where do most of the call-ins, walk-ins come from? Like, do they find you on Google or Yelp or Instagram or?
you
Because of our neighborhood, we don't do a lot of walk-ins. We actually keep our door locked and we have a doorbell, which is nice so that people come in that way. So we don't do a lot of walk-in business, but ⁓ I would say we have a really good rating on Google and Yelp. So I think we get clients from that as well as I have a pretty strong social media presence and I think that brings clients in. Even if I don't see them, you know, I'll say I may not be available, but let me consult with you and I'll help you find the right stylist.
Got it.
Okay, and you're by appointment only with a locked door because of the situation. And that certainly seems reasonable. ⁓ I know that a lot of people have had to do that. You know, if their neighborhoods have shown to be a little tricky.
Yes.
What is air touch? You're an air touch educator. What is air touch? I've heard this, but it's been a little while since I've heard it, so please remind me.
Well, as you mentioned earlier, know, balayage is my passion, hand-painted balayage. And I also, you know, obviously do highlights with foils. And when the teasing trend came in, you know, to be teasing and lived in, I don't, it just didn't resonate with me. ⁓ That called me, I do a little bit of it, but it just didn't resonate with me. And so when I saw the air touch technique and what air touching is, it's taking a slice of hair.
and using your blow dryer very close to the hair on cool air and blowing out the loose hairs. Very similar to what you're doing when you backcomb. It's a similar result with less tangles. It's what I always say. It's a similar end result. You get a diffused result, but you don't have all those tangles to comb out at the end.
Got it.
Very interesting, does it take longer? Because you gotta, all of sudden you need to pick up the blow dryer.
Bye!
That's a question I get asked a lot. I have a system where I have everything laid out in a way that makes it move very quickly. But yes, I would say it probably takes a little bit longer because of having to grab the dryer and do that. But I say I save the time in the comb out at the bowl and having to comb out the tangles or the backcombing. Yeah, not as bad. Yeah.
Right? You don't have the knots anymore.
Interesting.
Okay, so you also educate on balayage. That is your specialty. So let's talk about that. Do you have ⁓ special techniques? I imagine you learned a lot from your mom, your mentor early on, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if you, very much like her, have been very inquisitive and maybe experimental and you've figured out some things on your own.
I'm getting that sense. I don't know that for sure, but am I on the right track?
You are. absolutely love learning new things. And that has what's kept me interested and excited about this industry for as many years as I've been doing it. And ⁓ so I'm always taking classes, always learning, trying out new techniques. And yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's super cool. So can you tell us about any of them? Any of the little tips and tricks? Obviously not all of them, but give us a few little teasers.
Well, I'd love to share a little bit about my balayage journey with you because I actually the first class I ever took in hand painted balayage was with my mother and we went back to Atlanta, Georgia and we took a class with Seegers and it was a great class and it's like nobody else that went to that class or probably five of us that went but no one else that went to that class continued painting hair in the salon but me. I absolutely loved it. When I say that like teasing didn't resonate with me, hand painted balayage
Yes.
did resonate with me. So since then, you know, I've continued to paint hair. I only painted though the easy people, like the people that were already pretty naturally blonde and you know, that I knew I was going to get a successful lift in some of the challenges that people face with hand painted balayage, our lift or, ⁓ you know, just getting evenness, things like that. So I've continued taking multiple classes over the years and one that really, really resonated with me was
Candy Shaw and Sunlight's Ballyaj. So I took several classes with them and I just felt like even though I'd been painting hair for a long time, it just started to fill in all the gaps for me. And I loved it so much that I actually became an educator for them. And I educated for them for many years. And I don't educate for them anymore, but only for the pure reason that I like the option. Again, I like learning new things. I like the option to use different products.
and try different things. And you can't do that when you're working for a company. But I definitely got the grounding and the staple of my hand-painted techniques from Sunlights and Candy Shop.
Right.
Yeah, Candy's been on the show. She's a friend of the show. That's like what they say in the business. Absolutely. And it makes a lot of sense that you learned a lot from her and you liked it and it makes sense why it's maybe not so good to be tied to one particular thing. So all that makes sense. I'm curious about your ⁓ use of ⁓ bond builders. know, bond builders came out strong 2014, all aplex.
Yes, I saw that. That's why I want to give her a shout out because she's amazing.
Fast forward, every brand came out with their version of it, ⁓ all chemically different, slightly different. But everybody just kind of jumped on the bandwagon. I thought it was really funny when Aloe, know, Aloe apparel, like yoga clothes? Like Aloe, yeah, Aloe came out with a Bond Builder shampoo and conditioner. And I was like, okay, that's it. Like we have to...
Okay.
yeah.
Hahaha!
We have to call an end to this madness. And then K18 came around and I know that you like to use some K18. So talk about where we are right now in the bond building evolution.
Yes.
Okay. I started out as an Olaplex user and I still love Olaplex. I use some of their styling products for sure. But once I was introduced to K-Teen, I understood the bond building game at a little different level. And the way that I understand it is that K-Teen works at a molecular level, which is that inner core level of the hair. And most other bond builders work at the cortex level or the cuticle level of the hair. So K-Teen can do more than any other
bond builder as far as the way that I understand it. And so when I started working with the product, I saw the difference. And now, I mean, I'm totally all in with K18. I use it on every one of my color services. I'm getting great results, especially with not one of the concerns that I had ⁓ with some of the other bond builders is that it affected maybe are slowed down the process of the lightning a little bit.
And that was definitely an issue with hand-painted balayage because already there's some issues with lift and making sure you have good saturation and because it's open air. And so the last thing I needed was for anything to slow down my process. So Kate team doesn't do that. So it has been a really great, a great fit.
Yeah, yeah, very cool.
Most of the brands, it seems like most of the brands that, you know, the L'Oreal's, the Wellas, the Goldwell's, the Schwarzkopf's, et cetera, have tried to include bond building qualities and functionality into kind of the ⁓ fundamental products. You know, the developer, the color or whatever. ⁓ Do these work? Like, they, ⁓ do they properly give you what you're looking for? ⁓
Mm-hmm.
enough to not use an Olaplex or a K18 or do you like overlap with use K18 on top of let's say a L'Oreal, you know, ABC acidic bond concentrate product.
It's hard for me to speak to that because I don't know, to be honest. I really don't know. But what I would say is like with the products that I work with, I would use, for example, K-Teen ⁓ in my color server before my color service and after my color service. And then maybe I would use a product like Biotech Blowout by Goddess Maintenance Company. That's a new product that has protective and reparative benefits.
on top of that color service as a styling product. So I'm layering on that ⁓ reparative benefits. And again, as I said, Kate Teen works at a molecular level, whereas Biotech Blowout works at a cortex cuticle level. So again, I'm layering that benefit. So I would think that possibly those color brands that you mentioned work the same way.
like you would maybe use your K-18, but then you're getting that extra protection in the color brand. But it's hard for me to speak to it, because honestly, I've never really researched the science on that.
was a highly technical question and I threw it out to you and it's totally fine to not know. And I love the fact that you're like, I don't know. ⁓ Yeah, you don't want to make something up. Yeah, the listeners want to be able to trust what you're saying. If you could wave a wand and change anything about the industry that your last three generations have been in, and by the way, your son,
Yeah, I'm really not sure and I hate to like speculate. Exactly. ⁓
is also a hairdresser, right? So that's, he's the fourth generation. Okay, so you are the queen of the beauty industry. I handed you a wand. You can wave it and change anything about it at all right now. What would it be?
He's our fourth generation.
Ha ha ha.
I think the one thing that I would like to see go back to how it used to be ⁓ is to see people coming out of school a little bit more hungry for education. I have done apprenticeship for over 30 years, and I have to say it's a little it's been a little challenging for me in the last 10 years. I should maybe say since covid that I see people coming out of school kind of expecting.
to just walk out there and have a clientele and know how to do everything and not want to do the work. And I remember back in the day when I was growing a clientele and knew in the industry, we had to do the work. We had to pass out our cards. We had to try and build clients and we had to sit in the salon for hours waiting for someone to call or walk in. And I just don't see a lot of young stylists willing to do that now.
Yeah, I'm not surprised at all. mean, you know, and I can see it on both sides. Somebody thinks to themselves, all right, I just put in 2000 hours. Took me a year and a half. I paid all this money depending on what school they went to. And like, wasn't that my education? Now it's time to make some money. And, but that doesn't seem the way that a cosmetology school is. And of course there are some that do a better job of it, but
No.
pretty close to across the board from what I understand. I never went to cosmetology school. just I hear for the last 25 years what different people's experiences have been.
What I always
say when someone gets out of school is you learn what you learn when you get out. So you got to get the basic. It is, but it's the way it is. You get the basics in school. You learn for the test because they teach you for the test. Then once you take the test, then you have to learn what it's really like.
And how annoying is that? But how annoying, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
That is the reality of the situation, people. And we have aspiring hairdressers here. We have beauty school ⁓ students who listen to the podcast. And I think it's good for them to hear this. This is the reality of the situation. And I think if you pay attention enough to conversations like these, you talk to people in the industry enough, everybody pretty much says the same thing. But.
It is.
It is very tempting to think that, alright, I put in my thousand, two thousand hours and now it's time to go make it rain.
Yes, it's so true. They just don't want to do that. They don't understand maybe what's involved in having to do that hard work. I feel like I'm still doing the hard work. And I've been doing it for over 30 years. I'm still doing the hard work.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hard work is part of it, sounds like. And by the way, every job is very similar. There's hard work in every job. This isn't unique to the beauty industry. Just look around, talk to anybody who does anything, and the hard work is just part of it. And I think it's important. It's very easy to think that you want to avoid the hard work in your life, but...
It is.
Exactly. Right.
You know, a lot of one's self-satisfaction and things like that come from ⁓ meeting challenges ⁓ head on and doing and fighting through them, struggling through them, and then coming out on the other side, having done a good job. That's where a lot of our self-satisfaction is as humans. And that sounds cheesy, but I'm gonna stand by that. I've been saying that for years. Do you have any hair horror stories?
Absolutely.
Oh, I've had a few over the years, but fortunately not too many. think also, you know, one thing I try to do in the salon that I know my mother did for me is, you know, having people there and mentors there that when you get run into a problem, you have people to go to and get advice. You're not kind of on your own, just trying to figure it out. And so I always, I feel like when I've had issues, I had my mom or
other stylists that were mentors for me to ask questions and kind of help coach me through things. And I try to do that for my stylist. So if they have a hair disaster, I'm able to kind of help navigate them through that. So we don't have any horrible things happen because they don't know what to do and they just kind of keep going, hoping it's going to get better.
Well, that's lame. We want horror stories. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
I know. I know. I know.
Let's talk about branding. I mean, you've had a salon for decades and decades, ⁓ but you've created a brand for yourself and well-deserved.
Let's talk about branding and how you think about it and how it works through your kind of online presence and your marketing and all that.
Well, it was really fun because I always felt like the name that my mother came up with when she called the salon the Color Authority was just so unique and such a great name. So when I started on social media, I knew very little about social media, but I thought, I need to start a page for the salon just to, you know, everyone was doing that and just to get ⁓
some of our work out there for clients to see. And then I started educating. And when I started educating, the page became more about my education than it did about the salon. And the girls were like, well, we don't feel like this is all about us. It's about you. And I said, you you're right. So I kept that page as my own. And that's how my Instagram became Color Authority. And I actually started a salon page separate from that. ⁓
But I knew so little about social media at the time. And I just learned from so many great people. And that's, think, where I transferred, because I've been doing hair for so long that learning about hair wasn't a big challenge for me anymore, that I took that need for challenge and redirected it into social media and learned so much, ⁓ gosh, since, I don't know, I'm trying to think of it was.
2019, 2018 that I started getting really active on social media and built a big following. I've aligned with brands as a result of that and always brands that I believe in. That was kind of how I got started on that. I just would post and share about brands I loved. And then I started to work with some of those brands. And that's the way I like to continue doing that with integrity and representing things that I really believe in.
I love it. I love it. Do you ever have times with social media where you're like, my God, I can't spend five more minutes on Instagram?
all the time, all the time. I just, hit that wall and I'm like, okay, I know what burnout is. I know what burnout is. And you just got to take a little step back, just breathe. And you know, I love, there's a couple ⁓ social media, like promote, you know, just coaches on Instagram that I follow and like their advice. And they'll say sometimes repost some things that, you know, did well for you in the past. Just take that break.
that you need and that really helps me because I start losing my creativity when I start feeling burnt out. I just feel stagnant. So taking that break really helps re-energize the creativity.
Yeah, that's great advice.
Any last words for the community?
I guess my last word would just be do what you love. I think that's where the passion comes from is doing what you love. And the one thing that I love about hairdressing right now is that people are able to choose those things that they love. They don't have to do everything anymore. Back when I started doing hair, we kind of had to do everything. And I didn't love it all. But now at this point in my career, I just do what I love. And I love that so many new stylists can do that right out of the gate.
Absolutely, all the resources are there. Just got to put in the hard work. Yeah, you're a good, ⁓ you're a very good example of that. So thank you so much. This is awesome.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you. So nice to meet you.

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Ep. 416 • A Family Legacy of Hairdressing w/ Denise Mahoney

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 416 • A Family Legacy of Hairdressing w/ Denise Mahoney