Andrew Jarrous: BYL Ventures

Joel Palathinkal chats with Andrew Jarrous about Kevin Hart's Hart House launch, Jarrous' background, and his time at Morgan Stanley. They discuss managing family wealth for high-profile clients and how celebrities like Hart influence generational wealth and social impact. The episode covers partnerships in mission-driven investments, XPB Circle's fund-to-fund structure, legal and economic aspects, and evaluating fund managers. Team dynamics, scalability, storytelling in pitches, and fee structures are also explored. They conclude with insights on networking, Alex Hermosy's influence, and Thanksgiving wishes.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
On that note, Kevin has launched Hart House,right, the plant based restaurant, fast food

(00:04):
restaurant, because the idea there there's onlytwo restaurants today, but the expansion is
planned for the next year to be prettysignificant.
And the idea there is why does plant basedproteins have to be only that wealthier people
can afford them.
Right?
The African American community is one of thelargest, if not the largest consumer of plant
based proteins like Atlanta, Georgia inparticular.

(00:28):
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.

(00:52):
Can you guys hear me okay?
Yes.
All
right, great.
Well, we'll, you know, probably have a few morepeople pop in, but excited to do this right
before Thanksgiving.
You know, and Andrew, just really thankful foryou coming in and spending some time with me.
I know you spent some time with me recently.

(01:13):
So glad to get you one last time before theholidays.
But you know, to have you and just do somestorytelling, learn a little more about your
really colorful and exciting background,working with some really high profile people.
But for the audience, we've got Andrew Jarus.
He's at XPV Capital.
He's worked with a lot of high profilepersonalities and has managed capital for some

(01:38):
very sophisticated people.
Excited to go through that and just hear abouta lot of your experiences because you've gone
abroad as well.
So love to kind of unpack your experiences justkind of been investing and, and partner with
other people overseas.
But why don't we kick this off?
Andrew, why don't you talk about yourbackground, the audience for your reference or

(01:59):
people that are aspiring VCs, also aspiringfund managers as well.
So really excited to kind of do somestorytelling.
But let's talk about where you grew up, aboutyour career, and how you got into the venture
space, and then we'll just keep unpacking.
Yeah.
No, I appreciate the opportunity to speak withyou again, Joel, and everybody else.

(02:23):
It's a pretty interesting, I guess, background.
You know, I grew up in Los Angeles, Pasadena,to be specific.
I'm of Lebanese descent.
And so I was doing a leadership conversationwith a few people about, are you happy with
calmness or chaos?
And I said, being of Middle Eastern descent,chaos always seems to be the comforting part of

(02:45):
my background.
But, I really started off on chaos in 02/2008at Morgan Stanley, right, during the financial
crisis.
And I remember being in Colorado visiting afriend after graduating college getting a phone
call from the Morgan Stanley office, and Iexpected my offer to be rescinded right then
and there.
Thankfully, it wasn't.

(03:07):
So, that was being on the financial advisorybrokerage side taught me a few things that a
lot of people don't experience.
The next twelve years was myself being anallocator to private funds.
But one thing I would say that a lot ofinvestors or allocators miss is that emotional
relationship to the end client, who the moneyis for that you're managing.

(03:32):
A lot of people say whether it's growth orvalue, and you could say, Well, value has
underperformed for so long, it's bound to comeback, and we have seen that happen.
But you can only say that for so many yearsuntil the client is just fed up.
And so you have to have this balance ofsticking true to what you believe in academic
theory and emotions.
And one thing, I guess my first experience withpeople of influence was I worked at Morgan

(03:55):
Stanley with Randy Jackson and Janet Jacksonand the Jackson family post Michael Jackson's
passing and just setting up helping set up atrust and a foundation and things of that
nature.
And that was very eye opening of just dealingwith people at that caliber, right?
At that stage of their careers and being at thetop of the world and dealing with financial

(04:16):
aspects.
And being young, I probably wasn't the rightperson to be taking on that much capital or
advising on that much.
But that was really where I started my careerin dealing with high profile people.
Then fast forward for the next twelve yearsbeing more of a traditional asset allocator at
a fund of hedge funds, dealing withquantitative strategies and macro strategies,

(04:38):
and then going to Wilshire Associates, which isa large consulting firm, dealing with the
largest pensions and endowments and high networth people as well, I realized very quickly
there that I would advise a lot of youngerpeople to join some of these large consulting
firms because the exposure I got to the besthedge fund managers, the best private office
managers was something that you could notreplicate anywhere else.

(05:00):
Right?
I was sitting across from like the Dan, youknow, Dan Loves and Bill Ackmans and and on the
quantitative side, right?
Some of the biggest trend followers, DavidHarding from Winton, as a 20 year old, you
can't fathom being in front of those people.
And they would come into your office notbecause of myself, but because of Willshear and

(05:21):
the capital we had.
But again, that was an experience I had thatreally built a foundation for continuing to be
an allocator and understanding how marketinglooks, right?
That a lot of people have great stories and notmuch substance.
Or they don't have a great storytelling aspectto them, but they've got a lot of good research

(05:42):
and substance behind them.
And so really just going through thousands ofmanagers and reading through thousands of
pitches and hearing thousands of pitches reallybuilt myself for the opportunity to join and,
you know, be employee number four at XPV todeal with high profile people and deal with,
you know, big institutional capital that wethankfully are are working with today.

(06:05):
But I would say that that early career was nottraditional, right?
It wasn't a traditional investment banking orVC background that has led me to XPB, but
really more of dealing with those high profilepeople.
Being in Los Angeles, thankfully, and havingthose people just around and in the community,
you're one or two phone calls away fromreaching your target person.

(06:26):
Let me ask you a question.
So, just diving a little deeper, you don't haveto mention any names, but what are some
learnings that you took away from that youdidn't expect to see when you're working with
these high profile people?
I can imagine typically there's conflicts withsiblings and family members fighting over the
wealth.

(06:46):
And especially when you're setting up a trust,there's a lot of different dynamics.
But what are some high level takeaways thatprobably didn't expect in the beginning working
with these high profile wealthy families?
Yeah.
When you're younger, you think it's allglamour, right?
If they're successful, they're wealthy, they'vegot everything going and they're happy.
That's not always the case.

(07:08):
And to your point, if it's family wealth, it'sdifferent than an individual, right?
Like we work directly with Kevin Hart at inHeartbeat Ventures, what we've helped
structure, and I'm sure we'll talk about that.
But, you know Yeah.
He has built that kind of himself, obviously,with the help of his family, but that's easier
to manage from a a wealth perspective thandealing with family wealth.
So I would say managing, understanding wherethey're coming from, how they came into that

(07:31):
wealth, managing egos, you know, for better orfor worse.
A lot of egos play into why they aresuccessful, but there also obviously some, you
know, cons to that.
So the biggest that's what I would say are thebiggest takeaways of just understanding how to
work with the people.
And really, these people aren't necessarily themost trustworthy because everybody out there is

(07:52):
trying to get their hand in their pocket.
Right?
And so why should they trust you?
How long have you built this relationship andhow have you built it to be part of the inner
circle that they now trust with their wealthand just their day to day?
Because we've seen a lot of high profile peopleget burned from somebody within inside the
circle or just, you know, they're very theirguard is up, and I think rightfully so.

(08:17):
What I've been seeing too is just a lot of thecelebrities and I feel this is a newer thing.
Look, I mean, watch Kevin, I'm a huge fan ofKevin Hart, I saw him, my wife bought tickets
to for me and her to see or her and I to seeKevin Hart and Chris Rock like we sat in the

(08:38):
third row, it was for my birthday, and we gotlike VIP tickets and it was amazing.
And I would say like they, many of thesecelebrities are really thinking about
generational wealth and legacy.
And I don't think I saw that to be the caseprobably like maybe seven to eight years ago.
So I feel like there's a huge thing now ofmusicians, artists, content creators, really

(09:04):
thinking about how multiple businesses can flowinto each other, how you can essentially build
a conglomerate.
And I think that's what Kevin is doing, right?
He has a production company and I know this isall public information.
He talks about it on Shark Tank, so I thinkthere was like a spotlight on him, like when
they introduced Kevin where they, you know,show him kind of in his office and kind of the

(09:28):
venture investments he's done.
I think he's done some food tech investmentstoo.
But you know what?
What are you seeing in that sense as far aslegacy creation as far as artists now thinking,
Hey, you know what, I don't think I can keepdoing this.
I don't think I can keep going.
You know, being a huge star in these movies,like when I'm 60 years old.

(09:48):
I mean, we still see The Rock still in actionmovies, right?
And he's probably an anomaly, but there'sprobably an expiration date where you can't
just continue starring in movies.
So there needs to be other lines of revenue.
But I'd love your just your take on that as faras like how, how these, you know, actors,

(10:10):
musicians, content creators are like evolvingand, and thinking about that generational
wealth.
Yeah.
They're definitely thinking about it more toyour point than ever before.
One of our co founders is Keske Honda, theJapanese soccer player, played for AC Milan,
was probably one of the top three best Japanesesoccer players of all time.
Was three time World Cup, which World Cup'sgoing on now, but he's no longer playing.

(10:33):
But he was exactly what you're you're statingof.
I have a great soccer career, then what?
Right?
How do I make a difference in this world?
How do I create impact?
And not impact from the, you know, ESGterminology, but how do I put my capital to
work to change what I want to, right, mylegacy?
And so you see that with Kevin.

(10:53):
You see that with Kesuke.
So Kesuke took the route of you know, he wasthe first angel investor of influence in Japan.
He took The US model of person of influence andtook it to Japan with the help of Tashi
Nakanishi, our other cofounder, and reallybuilt out the family office and then the angel
investing and was extremely successful.
Made more money in early venture early on inhis venture investing career, angel investing

(11:16):
career than he did in all his soccer career.
And so, realized that there's really anopportunity to make money but also make a
difference with that capital.
And so, you know, he's now the Cambodiannational team soccer coach.
He's opening camps across the world in Asia,and he had in The US a few.

(11:37):
And so he really wants to give back to thecommunity in a way that he knows, right, which
is obviously soccer, athletics, women'sathletics in particular.
So, you know, doing things like that helps thelegacy, making an impact, making a difference.
And I think that's really I don't wanna sayit's rare.
It's definitely becoming more and more.
Right?
These these athletes, especially, they've got afinite period of time, especially if you're

(12:00):
talking about football players Mhmm.
American football players.
Right?
That's even shorter.
So they are starting to think you're seeing,you know, Eli Manning, right, is just helping
on the private equity side and Kim Kardashian.
Like, everybody is starting to realize thatthey are a brand.
Everybody have significant influence.
Not not every person that has some influence, athousand a hundred thousand followers on
Instagram, but people of real influence thatare at the top of their game, whether it's

(12:24):
Kevin in comedy or KSK in soccer, you know,they're realizing that they are more than just
what their job is.
Right?
Kevin Kevin said it at TechCrunch when weannounced the Harpy Ventures Fund was, if this
was just a Kevin show, I would keep doing whatI do.
I do comedy.
I make a lot of money, and I'm done.
But I wanna build out a brand and anenterprise.

(12:47):
And so they're realizing that the legacy isn'tjust they're an athlete or they're a comedian.
The legacy is becoming a brand, anentrepreneur, and a business person, and then
being able to show other people in theirrespective communities that you can do this as
well.
Like athletics or comedy got me to where I haveto be, but now I've taken it to the next level.

(13:10):
And so you're seeing what they want theirlegacy to be.
Kevin mentioned it on stage.
Right?
It's like, why can't a building have Kevin Hartor Heartbeat Ventures on the top of it?
Why does it have to be that I'm a comedian andI stay in my lane, to use a phrase that
Yeah, a lot of people involved as people aswell, right?
So they don't want to be labeled as a comedianor as a musician or as an engineer, they want

(13:34):
to think about building a conglomerate, right?
I mean, McDonald's, Nike, these brands havebeen around for the last thirty years.
And I think there's an opportunity for Kevinand all these other people to be another
McDonald's where it's kind of timeless.
And, you know, that takes time and, and a lotof effort and brand recognition and reputation

(13:58):
to kind of get to that point.
And I would say also, being a comedian, know,you're trained to kind of make people laugh.
So it's kind of a different lens that you'rerebranding as far as yourself as well.
Know, Kevin does, you know, obviously Kevin'sfunny as hell.
Every time I see him, I crack up and I lovethis show.

(14:18):
But now when I see him, I see him as a lot morebecause he's, giving back to the community.
I know he does a lot of mentorship and thenhe's backing entrepreneurs too, you know.
So it just brings a whole new like evolution tothat person as we're all human beings evolving,
you know, every couple of years.
It's really cool to see that.

(14:39):
Well, on that note, you know, Kevin haslaunched Hart House, right?
The plant based restaurant, fast foodrestaurant, because the idea there, there's
only two restaurants today, but the expansionis planned for the next year
to be,
pretty significant.
And the idea there is why does plant basedproteins have to be only that wealthier people
can afford them.
Right?

(14:59):
The African American community is one of thelargest, if not the largest consumer of plant
based proteins like Atlanta, Georgia inparticular.
So why is it that they have to charge $15 to$20 Why can't it cost the same or around the
same as, you know, McDonald's across street orin and out across street?
So Kevin's first restaurant was, you know,under it's under $10 for a meal.

(15:20):
And it's across or it's right next to LAX wherethere's a lot of competition.
So he's not shying away from competition.
He's saying, hey, instead of McDonald's and InN Out and Burger King right there, here's
another alternative for you.
It's in the same price camp, and it's ahealthier alternative for your fast food
experience.
And so, to your point, not many people canlaunch a restaurant that have that brand, and

(15:45):
he wants to bring that feel good.
And he is supporting underrepresentedcommunities by putting them in communities like
that, but also having the manager, supportingfranchisees who might be underrepresented
individuals.
And so doing it in more than just venture andinvesting a check, but more creating job
opportunities in places that there is, youknow, a movement up.

(16:10):
Right?
In and Out is a great example of people thatactually enjoy working for In and Out and and
get paid well and have progression over time.
And so he's creating that same model at HartHouse.
Yeah, I know Magic Johnson, you know, he spokeat a conference I went to a couple years ago,
but I think one unique thing that he did,because he's a huge proponent of

(16:31):
entrepreneurship, I think he tried to, and youmight be able to correct me, but I think he
tried to actually develop like Starbucks indeveloping areas.
So you know, kind of outside in the inner cityareas, he would kind of create Starbucks.
A lot of people think, oh, you know, why do youwant to have kind of more of a upscale
restaurant, you know, those areas, but I thinkit's the same thing.

(16:53):
You know, you don't have to come to privilegeto kind of enjoy like a nice coffee and have a
nice snack.
And I think he also priced it accordingly tothe cost of living in those regions too, which
I thought was an innovative idea, because thatjust expands the footprint of, of Starbucks.
Then I think there's just opportunity for a lotof these other healthy types of, food

(17:15):
opportunities in these in these areas too.
Who are some other celebrities that you thinkmaybe you don't, you know, work with them, but
that are doing similar things than to to Kevin.
You know, they could be in the the comedy spaceor they could be kind of in a different sector.
Are there any other people that you see thatare emerging?
Yeah.
Well, Tashi and Kiska, the you know, two of thethree cofounders of XPV had a joint venture

(17:41):
previously with Will Smith called Dreamers BC,right, the actor.
And so when when Kesuke and Tasha weresuccessful in Japan about eight years ago, they
got anchor capital from the biggest Japanesebanks, Nomura, and then they got capital from
MUFG, Shiseido, others, and to to bring thatbusiness model kind of back to The US.

(18:01):
But Kesco wasn't gonna, you know, go at italone, so there was a partnership with Will
Smith for the same concept.
Now what some of the learnings there was, youknow, you need people that are all active.
Right?
The old business model of my name gets me intodeals, and that's why I have better access than
you do or better allocation.
I think it's a way of the past.
I think the future is more of strategicpartnerships.

(18:22):
And so that's why Kevin is, you know, a greatperson because he's very active in all of his
investments.
Right?
You see it with Hydro and previously withBeyond Meat and others.
He wants to be active.
He believes in it.
And so, you know, you the people that we would,you know, work with or are in conversations,
you know, work with are people that you wouldrecognize by name because there's a finite

(18:44):
amount of people that not just have influence,but that are active in venture, right?
They believe in that.
And then the last thing that we you know,coming from KSK and talk, want mission driven
yeah,
between black and brown communities andmainstream America.
Right?
Why does venture have to look one way?

(19:05):
And so he's got that.
Another partner that we're working with rightnow that I can probably disclose by the end of
the year is very focused on brain disease andmental disorders.
He's got a foundation for that.
He's giving back.
He's a minority himself.
And so all of the partners that we work withare mission driven.
Now, to your other question, you know, SerenaVentures is an obvious one of somebody Yeah.

(19:29):
Influence out, you know, top of her game, bestof all time doing that and and, you know,
supporting underrepresented founders as well.
So, we don't view people like Serena as ascompetitors.
We view them as partners.
Right?
Because if you can get more people withsignificant influence that are targeting a
different demographic, let's say, then, you'reright, you help that portfolio company

(19:51):
immensely.
So it's not us versus you.
Now, obviously, if there's a finite allocationand you want to win that allocation, it is for
that moment.
But once your partner's investing in aportfolio company, then it's really a
partnership.
Or if we can reach out to Serena Ventures andsay, we've got an extra million dollar
allocation.
Right?
Would you like to participate alongside us?
And this is our vision.
Then we view right?

(20:12):
We view them as partners.
So I think Serena does it.
You're gonna see, like, LeBron, Kevin Durant.
Right?
Some of the the names that you say them today,and nobody's like, who is that?
You can't really build a business and a brandand a venture investment arm around people
that, you know, maybe they aren't known orthey're known less so in The US and more in

(20:32):
another country.
That's fine as well because you're building aglobal footprint.
Yeah.
So really just thinking about it that way.
Yeah, would say too, I mean, there's twothings.
So I think number one, most of these people arepretty sophisticated, they probably studied and
learned investing over time.
But I think what's also interesting is, if youcome from the entertainment industry, you may

(20:52):
not have, you know, had the formal investmenttraining.
What's what's powerful is if you have theresources and the capital, you can find talent,
that talented people that have a stronginstitutional investing track record.
And then you can learn that way from managingthose people, having those people kind of run,

(21:12):
you know, probably the sourcing, the screening,and also the investor relations.
So I think that's a great way to kind ofquickly scale and build a practice.
But then I think also there's opportunity topartner with someone like you that can do that
as a service, right?
So there's, and I think that's an interestingmodel as well, venture capital as a service
where there's maybe corporates, there'sconglomerates, there's, you know, massive

(21:37):
celebrities that just don't have the bandwidth,right?
Because they're busy, you know, managing otherbusinesses that they have, so they can kind of
retain somebody to kind of handle theinvestment mandates that are, I guess the
investment opportunities that are aligned withthe mandates.
It sounds like some of these, it sounds likefrom my, you know, personal gathering what

(22:01):
you're saying the mandates are really about,you know, providing some type of impact, the
legacy creation, and then obviously generatingfinancial returns.
But any other things that kind of flow in topline from the mandate of these different
families?
You know, there's the four, right?
Being mission driven, right?

(22:23):
Wanting some sort of positive impact orenhancing diversity within venture, being a
minority yourself, being active, and having anenterprise.
So those are the four things we look for.
So, we won't be working with people like TikTokinfluencers that have 20,000,000 followers.
That's just I know that exists.
Right?
I know a few funds that are doing that, andthat's their business model.

(22:43):
That's not our business model.
Our business model is more about working withpeople that have an enterprise or at least at
the bare minimum have that vision to build outthat enterprise.
Right?
And and we think about that because, one, ifKevin was to take a step away for a year on
tweeting or posting
Yeah.
We can still leverage heartbeat.
Right?
The enterprise, the production company, therestaurant, the tequila.

(23:06):
Right?
We can we can leverage.
It's not just Kevin.
Right?
It's what Kevin's built over the past ten,twenty years.
And so when you're dealing with people ofinfluence that are more like TikTok, Instagram
only, I think the business model changes.
So those are the four areas that we look forwhen we partner with people.
And then we also want to make sure so, youknow, the structure of XPB circle is really

(23:28):
kind of a fund to fund structure without theextra fee.
Meaning, we're deploying capital into HarpieVentures as like an anchor investment.
We deploy it into three or four more partnerfunds to anchor them.
And then they are all complementary to eachother.
Right?
You can't do it with 20 people, even if youfound them that meet that criteria, because
then they start to compete and overlap onsector or stage.

(23:51):
And so thinking about a fund of funds and mybackground being primarily fund of funds or
multi manager is how do we make sure that we'vegot a group of four or five people that won't
overlap?
Or if they do on rare occasion, we can makesure that XPB can get extra allocation, right,
and share the
deal flow pro rata or accordingly.
But if you start to say there's eight peopleand we're all different, you're starting to

(24:14):
carve it up and say, you know, seed stage CPGonly, and then health and wellness series a.
And it becomes too finite and too too, youknow, set.
So we want it to have flexibility but to notoverlap and where if we invest in, a Web three
company at seed stage in one fund Mhmm.
Then maybe when it goes to series a and wereally like that company, we can invest through

(24:36):
Heartbeat Ventures.
And so Heartbeat Ventures benefits off, right,that partner funds deal flow.
Maybe they source the deal.
And then that partner fund, early investorbenefits off Kevin Hart's influence.
And so at the end of the day, they both benefitoff each other.
And XPB circle, the fund to fund benefits aswell from just increased valuation exposure.

(24:57):
So that's the way we think about it.
We do expect the platform to expand over time.
There's the fund to funds, but we expect to doit with people of influence because there are a
lot of athletes that are nowadays athletes intheir basketball players in their early
twenties, right, making $200,000,000
Yeah.
Realize that they can't come off as a celebrityfund or investments and do direct deals and

(25:20):
scale that.
They might be able to do it here and there, butto really build an institutional team.
And so to provide that as a service, to bringin deal partners that focus on that fund in
particular, we can grow the platform to be thatpartnership between entertainment, athletics
and finance.
That's what we think about it.
And the way we think about not dilutingourselves is by bringing in other deal partners

(25:43):
that have expertise in the area that we want tofocus with those people of influence.
And yeah, this is a really unique structure.
We chatted about this before, and I think it'ssuper strategic.
So to cover the structure again, so there's thefund to fund that goes into the fund to deploy
capital.
And then obviously, you know, some of theseclients or some of these people that you're

(26:05):
investing in may not have the analysts andassociates to do the sourcing, screening and
investment committees.
So then you'll come in and provide some staffto help that, I guess augment that to build a
team for them?
Right.
So the way it works, I guess legal structure isit's a it's a fund to fund structure.
The way the reason we structured it that way isbecause, right, Kevin and Heartbeat Ventures

(26:28):
can now as a fund standalone fund.
Right?
You could have thought about it as all of ourpartners can be co GPs into one fund,
technically.
Right?
And then we deploy capital and then we say,okay, Kevin, focus on this company and partner
B and Casca, you focus on this company.
But the reason we didn't do that and then itwould just be XPB Circle into direct companies.
The reason we didn't do it that way is becauseeach of our partners are strong and big enough

(26:53):
to be able to receive outside capital directlyinto their fund.
So, Kevin has a strong presence and communitythat people want to invest directly into a
consumer, like an early stage generalist, butconsumer focused fund.
And so that was anchored by JP Morgan.
So they came in at heartbeat ventures.
Right?
And so another one early stage web three thatwe're planning on launching early next year.

(27:16):
Right, that can stand alone and be a, hey, Iwant a sector specific, a Web three early stage
fund.
They don't right.
So you get to pick a la carte.
Or if you said, you know what?
I like this as a strategy.
I want multiple people of influence focused onall the portfolio companies.
I'm going to invest in XPB Circle.
And that gives you more of that diversifiedapproach.
Now, to your other question of expanding andwhat do we do for the partner, let's say we get

(27:40):
an inbound inquiry, which we have one coming uplater today, focus on health and wellness, we
will ask them, what does their team look like?
Who's been doing the deal sourcing anddiligence of each direct deal, right, under
your name?
And so, depending on what their answer is, ifthey've got a strong team already, then it just
becomes a partnership or we're sitting peer topeer on the investment committee.

(28:04):
And then we do all the operation,infrastructure, legal compliance, etcetera, for
them.
And so and then it all sits under XPVManagement, the management company.
Or if it's just, let's say, that person ofinfluence and they have a business manager that
might have been doing it, but they've realizedit's too much for me to do alone.
Yeah.
Then we might bring them in and say, okay,Let's bring in one more partner, right, that's

(28:28):
really a ex subject matter expert in health andwellness or food and ag and ag or clean energy
and have them participate as well.
And that way, it's almost like portfoliomanagers focus on each fund, almost like a
BlackRock or a Platt Vanguard, where it'sportfolio managers focus on each fund to the
extent that we need it or we grow it so muchthat we want to make sure that we don't dilute

(28:49):
ourselves and our attention.
And you said that you were not charging amanagement fee in most instances, right?
So, the fund structure is two and twenty,regardless of what fund a client or an
allocator goes into.
So, it's XPE Circle or it's Harvey Ventures orit's our Japan fund, it doesn't matter.

(29:11):
It's two and twenty.
And we were able to structure it that waybecause of they're all of our partner funds,
right?
We're the management company.
And so, it's a relationship and a conversationwith all of our partners by saying, Hey, you
know, we're giving you better economics thanyou might be able to receive
if
you were to do it yourself as long as XPDCircle investments come through as no fee.

(29:31):
And everybody that makes sense, right,everybody's happy.
And that fund of funds hurdle is eliminated bynot having that extra fee.
And I think the benefit too really frominvesting in funds, because you're obviously
not going to get the same type of returns, youknow, when you compare that to a direct
investment.

(29:51):
But I think the benefit is really thenetworking, the community building, the access,
the education.
So, I think that's a lot of, you know, proswith kind of going at the fund level.
And then there's also because you'rediversifying into an index of different
investments, there's risk mitigation as well.
So that's also, you know, definitely a goodthing to call out in my opinion.

(30:16):
And then, you know, I'd love to maybe doubleclick a little more on your institutional fund
to fund experience.
So it sounds like you're mostly looking athedge funds.
What are some of the qualitative andquantitative things that you looked for in
maybe experienced managers?
And then obviously with emerging managers,there isn't much data.
So maybe you can just kind of go through that alittle bit in terms of like, how institutions

(30:40):
in general look at managers and maybe sometrends of what you've seen.
Right, sure.
So I'll start off by saying, you know, when Ijoined, right, I was employee number four.
My conversations were around if I'm going tomove over from the allocator side to the asset
management side, which is a very hard and youknow, you do it maybe one time.

(31:02):
Yeah.
I want to make sure that we've done thisinstitutional.
Right?
Like, I don't want this to come off as acelebrity fund.
That's the last thing I want.
So what do we need to make it lookinstitutional?
And there's two ways to do it.
You either, as an emerging manager, hire theservice providers that just get you by, right,
until you build up a track record, generaterevenue, and then you increase the quality of

(31:23):
your partners and providers.
Or, in our case, thankfully, we're luckybecause our partners have deeper pockets than a
lot of emerging managers.
You start off at the institutional quality withthe best service providers, right?
With a compliance partner, with an in housetechnology team and in house operational team.
So, that, as emerging manager, you mightoutsource because you need to.

(31:45):
So, it's all to say that my experience atWilshire and Highmark was really, especially at
Wilshire, when I was looking at emergingmanagers, a lot of emerging managers don't
really know what it takes to get institutionalcapital, and that's not their fault.
Right?
And and I think that's what you provide, whichis a great platform, is provide that that

(32:07):
education, that experience.
So you're explaining to you know, and I wentthrough the course and and did all that, which
was great, you're explaining what do you needto do to get the looks from institutional
investors that most emerging managers might notfor six to ten years, right?
Second or third So, some of the aspects that Ialways looked for was almost always

(32:29):
qualitative.
So I tried my best to not look at numbers andjust to take meetings based on qualitative
feeling and and and understanding of the storyand the team and the culture, and then
eventually look at the numbers and see if itcorroborates my feeling.
Right?
If I if I believe that it's a a great managerand I like the story, it makes sense, I
understand the thesis, and I look at thenumbers and they're horrible, Did I miss

(32:53):
something or has it just been, you know, arough patch and vice versa?
If I'm sitting there and it just sounds like abroken team, it sounds like it's it's not
flowing and the numbers look great, did I misssomething or was it luck?
Right?
And so, was my experience has always beenfocused more on the qualitative nature of
managers, the team, right?
The process, the structure.

(33:15):
Operations is a big aspect that peopleoverlook.
So those are some of the things that I alwayspaid attention to is like, how long have you
known each other?
Have you worked together before?
Because culture can kill any fund.
So I would say that those are the mostimportant.
Then I already touched on the emerging.
But really emerging is like, did you spin outof a firm?
What were your learnings?

(33:35):
Right?
Are you leveraging just the big name that youcame out of?
Or did you do a lot of the grunt work?
Right?
A lot of the smaller funds, you do everythingand you learn so much more than if you were at
a big institution.
So I'd love to maybe go one level deeper onteam.
So good things that you see that are goodsignals on the team and then maybe some red
flags.

(33:56):
Yeah.
Well, I think economics is big, right?
So not to pound the table on the way we'reeconomics structured, but our founders were
very focused on having the employees, right,benefit and and participate in the carry as
well.
So we actually give 20% of the carry toemployees, non founders.
So I think that's great because I've heard 10%.

(34:18):
I think 20 is probably on the higher end.
You can correct me.
But especially as an emerging manager, youknow, you want everybody to
So that's 20%.
So they share in the entire 20% or they get 20%of the 20% of the 20%, right?
So it's like a two and twenty.
So you could say that the founders and partnersand, you know, advisors get 16%.

(34:38):
Yeah.
The employees get 4%.
Okay, that's fair.
That's pretty typical.
And then there's probably some dynamics, likeif the, obviously, if the employee leaves and
all that, I'm sure all of that kind of like,out on its own or gets prorated on its own.
Yeah.
There's like a five year vesting period, right?
You know, and if you leave before that, you're,you know, received a portion of that, not to

(35:02):
get too in the weeds, but basically, what thevision was is we want everybody to participate
in the upside.
We want everybody to believe and feel like thisis your company.
And I'll be honest, know, there's been, youknow, talking about the red flags, mean,
there's, there's probably been about five orsix emerging managers that have had to have
maybe two or three partners depart because ofthat same exact thing.

(35:26):
It's just the numbers don't make sense.
If you have a $30,000,000 fund, it doesn't makesense to have, you know, four general partners.
I can just see the decision making being reallydifficult too, because everyone sees the world
differently.
So, but I've seen a lot of people just kind ofafter a year, I'll chat with somebody from the
team and they're like, you know, I ended upleaving it was sometimes it's their decisions

(35:50):
and a lot of times it's not, They kind of getvoted off and and you know they're they're
gonna try to figure out what their next stepis.
Some of them go back into corporate America andthen some of them try to spin out and do their
own fun.
So those are you know that's something that Iobserved recently, you know, just kind of
something is breaking up.

(36:10):
And I think that's probably a side effect ofnot really thinking that through carefully in
the beginning, or maybe not being on the samepage, I would say.
Right.
Well, I mean, that's that's the thing.
It takes a lot of thinking, right?
You you think you've got a way about it andthen you start mean, you know, venture, it's a
long game.
Right?
And so carried interest is great, but itdoesn't pay out for six, seven, eight years.

(36:31):
So, what do you do in the interim?
How do you support the team?
And how do you grow the team?
And I think the economics is a big thing.
On the red flag, right?
Yeah.
It's not giving enough participation to maybethe non founders.
I think culture, right?
Like I said, have you worked with peoplebefore?
That's a huge thing.
And we're very focused on not hiring peoplethat, you know, I don't want say it's not a

(36:57):
cultural fit, but really just knowing theirbackground and and are they, you know, are they
a team player?
We don't have the whole, you know, whoeverleads finds a deal gets more carry than others.
It's it's more of a team focus.
So Yeah.
I would say that the economics, the culture arepotentially red flags of just not having a good

(37:17):
culture or a little bit more of a cutthroatculture, which I think is kind of going by the
wayside.
Right?
You see it in investment banking as well.
You see it everywhere as people, younger peoplein general, want to enjoy what they do and not
be working a hundred hours because you tellthem to.
If they they do it because they believe inthem.
Right?
That's their that's their own decision.
Yeah.

(37:38):
But to, you know, be on call at 10:30PM on aThursday, like the old school investment
banking model just doesn't work.
Yeah.
It doesn't.
A lot of those people I mean, it's it's verychallenging for those firms to to find talent
these days too.
So culture is good.
And then the process when you look at theprocess, what are things that you try to hone

(37:59):
in more on?
Is it like the investment process?
Is it the, you know, how they're running thefund?
I guess maybe you can go a little deeper onthat.
Yeah.
So from a process standpoint, it's more aboutthe repeatability and scalability of especially
in an emerging manager where it might be afirst time fund.
And you could say, well, as a family office, Iinvested in X, Y, and Z companies.

(38:22):
But family office style investing, direct dealinvesting is different than a fund.
Right?
There's portfolio construction constraints andor at least, you know, not mandates or
constraints, but just being aware of it.
Right?
You're you're dealing with outside capital nowversus your own.
So when it's your own capital, you sometimestake bets because maybe it's a relationship
check.
It's like, well, maybe it doesn't have the 10xupside that I normally want, but I think long

(38:45):
term, this could be a good relationship.
So here's a hundred thousand dollar check.
Right?
You wouldn't necessarily do that in a fund.
And so I think from a process standpoint, it's,you know, have you built out a process that
really allows you to scale the business andjust have repeat, you know, successes?
And so, like at XPV, we were in we're buildingout or we built out internal management

(39:06):
investment management software that we canshare deal flow quickly with with peers.
Right?
Kevin can share deal flow with Chris Rock if hewas talking to him and just say, hey, have you
looked at this company?
Right?
And so building it out to where it's scalable.
And so we've got our core group at XPB.
But as we grow the business, we wanna be ableto use technology to the extent that we can.
It doesn't eliminate people, but it justcomplements it.

(39:29):
And so I think the scalability and and, youknow, the process of how do you go from finding
a deal or somebody reaching out with a deal tomaking a decision?
What does that process look like?
And is it consistent?
Can I depend on it?
Are you going to always have the notes from theIC meeting that you took?
Right?
If an LP asked for, hey, give me last month'sall of last month's notes for the IC, and it

(39:55):
you can't send it over, you know, very quickly
Yeah.
Because you have to either clean it up oryou've got to tweak it or you didn't take notes
or you wrote them down.
I think that's a big red flag.
So we're the way we've thought about it is justand and that was been my experience on the LP
side, right, for twelve plus years.
And so coming here to XPV is the same thing.
It's like, what do we need to deliver to haveLPs confident that we can grow this business?

(40:21):
I I see a lot of questions that that arearound, you know, why do you think this fund is
gonna be better than the last fund?
Right?
Or or why do you think that you can it wasn'tjust luck, but you can repeat this and
outperform.
And so some of the those are the questionsthat, you know, I would focus on.
Yeah.
No.
It's a good I'm taking some notes here.
No.
That's that's important too because you you youhave learnings from each fund vintage.

(40:46):
So essentially you should be improving andgetting feedback and iterating.
Obviously not a crazy different strategy, butthe next strategy should get the LPs excited to
reinvest and hopefully recycle or just re upessentially.
Right?
So there needs to be a reason for them to wantto come back and re up

(41:07):
as well.
Exactly.
Like, you know, the predecessor fund, like Isaid, right, Dreamers VC, that was, you know,
kind of a focus on a person or or Keska inJapan and Will Smith in The US.
And so this iteration, XPV, is a multi person.
Right?
I'm a multi partner.
And so we've we haven't changed the strategy.
Right?
It's still leveraging people of influence to bea strategic partner to other venture capital

(41:30):
firms and to portfolio companies, but we'redoing it at a larger scale with multiple
partners to really create an investmentstrategy around that as opposed to, you know,
just a sole person of influence, which we stillhave at each partner fund.
So you're right.
You as an allocator get to pick where you wantto deploy the capital.
But that was a big takeaway we had is how do weenhance the strategy?

(41:53):
Don't change it, but how do we tweak it toreally make this institutional?
Yeah, one nugget that I'll add to just fromspeaking to a pretty well known LP a couple
days ago, you know, they a lot of times too,because as you know, I'm building a system to
kind of manage kind of the community that Ihave.
And, you know, there's only so much filteringthat you can do, you can say, hey, I'm

(42:17):
interested in food tech, I'm interested inFinTech.
And I like climate change, right?
But there's, there's more granular context andthemes that are below that.
And a lot of times, that's not as easy as justcreating one more drop down.
But it's more deeper than that.
It's kind of like, look, I like to see, youknow, mission driven founders, want to, you

(42:42):
know, when it comes to FinTech, I want to lookat the infrastructure and the embedded finance,
right.
And a lot of times, there's just not enoughdata fields or drop downs without making it
just really, really complex to navigate.
So there's a lot of cues and themes that arejust two or three levels of granularity that,
that like you as an LP, you may be looking for,but there just isn't a selection for that.

(43:07):
That's where it comes in.
And one other analogy that I kind of, you know,been saying to other people, this was told to
me years ago, it's like when you finally choosethat fund, it's very similar to like how you
chose a significant other or a spouse or, or aboyfriend or girlfriend or, you know, anyone
else, there's kind of that X factor, right?

(43:29):
You've done all your, you know, analytical factfinding, you've done your quantitative view,
the team seems great.
But at the end, you can't invest in everysingle team.
So there's some other X factor that that makesyou want to choose that person.
And I don't think like robots or AI can do thatyet.

(43:50):
They can probably augment that decision making.
But I think there's still kind of that, I don'tknow, that's just my opinion.
I think there's that weird X factor of youchoosing something.
Right.
No, I agree 100%.
So it's interesting because I think, you know,two things came to mind when you were
mentioning it is, you know, one of our thirdfounder who I hadn't touched on, his name is
Sahil Prasad.

(44:10):
He's the founder of Forge Global, which was thelargest secondary marketplace for private
equity shares, right?
They went public earlier this year.
He's a Peter Thiel fellow Y Combinator alum.
And so he's got that operator experience.
Right?
He launched another company called Destiny.
And so he's got the operator experience.
So a lot of people look for, you know, a dropdown could be.
Right?
Former operator?

(44:31):
Yes or no?
But you start to get too too in the weeds.
But I I think it really does come down to,right, the culture and and understanding, like,
what the reason is.
Right?
And so that so you like you said, that thatfeeling, what is it that really determines you
want to invest in this manager?

(44:52):
Is it that they just it feels like they'regenuine people?
And you can't quantify that, right?
And I think a lot of fintech firms come out andtry and replace finance, right, and people
without really understanding that you can't.
It can be complementary.
Maybe you don't need as many people.
But I've seen a lot of new companies come outthat are saying, we're basically going to

(45:13):
replace, you know, your private this newprivate bank is going to replace Goldman Sachs,
and we're going do that with technology.
That's great until you have your first hiccupor somebody wants to call somebody or right?
And so it's this blend between technology andpeople.
And I think, you know, what you're doing inparticular is fascinating.
Great because you are having a platform, butthat platform is focused on people, right?

(45:35):
And so it's just
Yeah, so I think my thought process was like,just focus on the community and then, you know,
you have some tools that can support thecommunity.
I think a typical startup or just a typical,you know, innovator, I think is the innovators
at all.
They build that software and they're like, hey,we're going to remove all the humans and but
then they want humans to still use it, youknow.

(45:57):
So that's the that's the cash 20 two.
So I think if you can, you know, for me, it'skind of been helpful to kind of just have fun
and, you know, have good people around me.
And then say, hey, you know what, here's atool, let me know what you think about it.
How should I improve it, you know, and I thinkjust kind of go that way.
And, know, it's funny, like, just to kind of goback to a point that you were saying, you know,
the one of my previous fund acceleratorcohorts, there was a substitute manager that

(46:23):
like, one of the guys came from like a reallywell known, very established venture fund was
there multiple years, went to Harvard, did theMBA from Harvard, then his partner like built
up like the AI technology at IBM.
So it's just like the perfect pedigree, but itwas so perfect and so reputable that it was

(46:46):
kind of boring.
Because like, wow, okay, great.
Came from like this great background, got allthe check boxes, And then they and then there
was no story behind that.
And there was like some very candid feedbackfrom one of the LPs.
Because if you're so buttoned up, and you checkso many boxes, I feel that also could just kind
of make you stale, I would say.

(47:07):
Right.
And I
think if you compare that to somebody thatlike, you know, maybe is the underdog and
didn't go doesn't have any of those boxes, buthas an amazing story from like, from where they
started to like where they are.
I think that it makes you want to back them.
And you know, it's just, I think storytelling,I think hopefully you learned from our program,

(47:30):
like I think storytelling, but then also now,and you and I had some chat about this you know
having bite sized nuggets and then maybedifferent size nuggets for like the level of
the discussions right you got the firstdiscussion the second discussion but I feel
truly there's going to be a point where likeit's going to be like a fifteen second

(47:51):
vignette.
And if it doesn't pass that first screen, it'skind of like, okay, you don't really have their
attention.
And I think that's what we're all fighting for
essentially.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
Like I mentioned to you, I feel like I have acheat code.
If I just say, I work with Kevin Hart and someother people, you're like, alright.

(48:13):
Well, tell me more.
Like, what do you mean you work with KevinHart?
How does that work?
Right?
And so that fifteen seconds works in thatcapacity.
But, I mean, look, I found it challenging tonarrow down what XPV does in two minutes.
And I think that's also because I have to Ithought I had to explain the structure Yeah.
Which in itself is unique and different.
Right?
And so that takes time.
Oh, yeah.

(48:33):
And then, know, talking about each venturefund.
So Yeah.
It's hard, but I think it's a it's a very, youknow, strong message to send to emerging
managers of, listen.
You know, you've got two minutes.
If you're out of a bar grabbing a drink or acoffee and somebody, you know, sits next to you
was like, oh, what do you do?
Right?
If you can just say it and then they say, tellme more, you're done as opposed to,

(48:55):
all
right, well, that's cool.
You know, have a safe flight.
Yeah, exactly.
What you did too, I think, so I read this book.
I don't know if I, I think it was made in theprevious store, but there's a book called Pitch
Anything.
And it's in general, it's pretty good.
But like my biggest takeaway from that book,which was really great was, you know, whenever
you're, there's a part of your brain, I thinkit's called the crocodile brain, where whenever

(49:19):
you're sharing something that you're doing withsomebody else, they immediately think it's a
scam.
They like already are writing you off.
But like what you did was an intrigue ping.
So you kind of tell them what you're doing andthen you kind of ping them with, hey, you know,
Kevin Hart, you know, Michael Jackson's family.
And they're like, Oh, really?
Wow, you know, I want to learn more.
Well, hey, I know we're out of time, why don'twe grab some time in a couple weeks?

(49:41):
Kind of, you got that second meeting, where youdidn't have to kind of open up the kimono
completely.
And then you kind of got them interested tolearn more.
And it's kind of like, and there's, youprobably have seen this too, like with the
layers of communication, I guess, in my mind,it's like, it's like, maybe the one sheeter or

(50:03):
like, the two page deck, and then there's amedium sized deck, and then there's probably
the larger deck that's in a data room.
But as an allocator, like from yourperspective, is that kind of the flow that
you've seen?
Or like, what were the kind of the layers ofinformation to kind of get you to to close?

(50:23):
Yeah.
Well, so we kind of I think a one pager makessense.
We kind of eliminate that by just having liketwo paragraphs explaining why we built XPV
Circle.
Right?
What are the four reasons we've done this?
Mhmm.
And what is our what is our strategic valueadd?
Like, why would you want to invest with us?
Yeah.
Right?
And by saying we have 500,000,000 people thatthrough our partners so far, we're not done

(50:46):
with a few more partners, so it could go to800,000,000.
It could be
a billion.
With that many people, you can reduce thecustomer acquisition cost for a lot of these
portfolio companies.
Right?
Whereas they're paying a lot of money,especially startups for Facebook and Google.
Now by allowing people on the cap table likeKevin Hart and Keska and others, Will Smith

(51:07):
previously, right?
If they promote the company and add value thatway, that that helps you save money as a
portfolio company.
So that's how you a reason that you can windeals, which is what everybody always asks.
Like, why is your deal flow better than others?
Or how are you going to replicate this?
So we went with a kind of a quick two paragraphexplanation of what we do.
Yeah.
And then we have the deck, which is not long,probably 20 pages.

(51:29):
Mhmm.
But it always leads to the conversation becausethe structure is just different.
So Yeah.
That's something unique to us that's different,not better or worse.
It's just different that we have to explain.
And most people want to get on the phone andsay, explain the legal structure.
You said fund to funds, but no extra fee.
How does that work?
Right?
So for most emerging managers, I would say likea one pager is very helpful, especially if

(51:50):
they're talking about just one fund thatthey're launching.
That's more than enough.
And then the deck and sometimes I think twodecks are important.
Right?
One that they can one you present and onepeople you send.
Right?
They digest it.
Yeah.
They digest on their own, which should havemaybe a little bit more language around it
because you're not there to talk them throughit.
Whereas the one that you're presenting couldhave minimal words on it.

(52:10):
Yeah.
No, that's really helpful.
And I know one more point we had was structure.
So I guess maybe some, you know, I think we'vealready kind of covered this, but, you know,
just the incentives for the team members andhow it's structured.
I would say probably like who their fund adminis, like who their I also like, sometimes look

(52:33):
at the logos that are on that, you know, secondto last slide, hey, we're working with this
bank, this, this, you know, repeatable fundadmin, this, this law firm, this audit firm.
But what else on structure should we maybe callout?
I mean, the fee structure is obviously thefirst one, right?

(52:53):
A lot of our emerging managers, they just can'tget by with like a two and twenty, so they
might do a two and a half to start or even athree.
I've seen a three.
Yeah.
And then I was just talking to a family officethat said, you know, they've invested in a
manager that charge an emerging manager thatcharges 3 and 25, but there's a clawback on the
management fee that comes out of the carrylater.
So it's a way of telling them, you can takemore management fees now to support your

(53:18):
business, but at the end of the day, it's goingto blend to look like a 2 and 20.
And that's a way that I think And some peopledo the 2 and a half, right?
And then they trickle it down after theinvestment period.
That's pretty typical.
I've seen that before.
One learning I had to is some people do chargelike a 3%.
And then what they've done to justify it, whichI think is smart, they've kind of backed in

(53:39):
their budget into that, you know, as far askind of what they, know, the overhead they have
and kind of the infrastructure that they needin the beginning.
But to your point, they do taper it off.
So, it kind of does average out to still at 2%over those seven years, but it's just kind of
tapered off.
I think if you're an LP that genuinely wants toinvest in emerging managers because you believe
they're going to outperform and because youwant to help emerging managers.

(54:04):
Mhmm.
I think it's I I think about it the way as likea, you know, a farmer's market.
Right?
You know you're paying more than you would at,you know, a big, you know, Ralph Vaughn, Stater
Brothers, whatever.
But you're okay paying a little bit morebecause you feel like, you know, you're gonna
get more value out of it.
Right?
It might be better quality, might beoutperforming, but you're also supporting the

(54:25):
local neighborhood, you know, chain as opposedor or store as opposed to the the big
conglomerate.
And so as long as you have an explanation aswhy you're charging what you are, which is what
you said.
Right?
They they show it, but then they show thebudget like, look.
We need this to manage this, and we don't wannashut down and have to, you know, give back
capital or get stuck or, you know, put on thesecondaries market for a discount.

(54:48):
So as long as you have an explanation as to whyyou might be charging more initially, you know,
I think LPs that want to invest in emergingmanagers understand
that.
Yeah, no, that's actually my new favoriteanalogy.
That's great.
That's an amazing analogy.
Because you're right, you're paying a premiumfor quality, and you are kind of supporting the

(55:09):
local community, also kind of helping whateverthese managers are their initiatives, right?
I mean, especially a local farmers market, likethey're straight from the farm, right?
So they're kind of like bootstrap, you know,grassroots kind of building it from from the
ground up.
So I love that analogy.
And I know we're over time.
So I really appreciate you coming in.

(55:30):
Guess if you got one more minute or thirtyseconds, maybe you can share like one of your
biggest learnings from like a mentor.
I know you work with so many amazing peoplethat have so much wisdom.
So maybe just one less life lesson you want toshare with us.
Yeah.
And I've actually told this to a few peoplerecently is and my brother told me this when I

(55:50):
just joined in 02/2008.
He was a hedge fund manager, still is.
And he told me from a tough lesson he learnedis never stop networking.
Don't only reach out to people when you needsomething because it's very obvious that you're
transactional.
And so, you know, thankfully, my brother toldme that, you know, fourteen, fifteen years ago.
So, I took that to heart.

(56:11):
And now, going from an allocator to a GP, I'mable to reach out to other allocators and it's
not like, Hey, I haven't heard from you in fiveyears.
I'm curious what you want.
It's more of a, let's catch up.
Right?
Relationships, especially more so on VC thanhedge funds, is very important.
And so, if you're not launching a fund, ifyou've already launched a fund, that's the best

(56:35):
time to reach out to people.
You don't need anything from them.
You're not asking for capital.
You've got three years, let's say, to the nextfund launch.
That's a great time to build a relationshipwithout ever asking for something.
And at that point, three years from now, youdon't even have to ask.
They'll know what you're doing.
No, I love that.
That's super strategic.
I mean, I think you should always be networkingand everybody's guard is down if you got

(56:57):
nothing to sell or ask for.
So, love that.
I actually
I appreciate you.
Joel, I actually got a LinkedIn message from aperson, a former boss from Morgan Stanley
fourteen years ago.
His LinkedIn message was just like, Hey, sawyou come up on LinkedIn.
Just checking and saying, Hi.
I don't want anything.
I don't need anything.

(57:17):
That was literally his message to me.
I love that.
And I just laughed.
And I was like, I get it, right?
Because a lot of people reach out when theyneed something.
Yeah, there's a guy and I know you're probablyover, but there's a guy named Alex Hermosy.
He became very, very successfully like launcheda gym launch business and, know, launched a
private equity firm after that, but he's justkind of creating a bunch of content.

(57:39):
And he's just built a massive footprint abouthimself, he starts every episode like, hey, I'm
Alex or Mosey and I have nothing to sell you.
So he's really just trying to, what he wants todo is like create a lot of content that's free
and make it available to everybody so thatthose people can create businesses eventually

(58:01):
that are generating 3 to $10,000,000 of revenueannually so that he can invest in them.
So he's just kind of help helping his platformby creating impact and enabling people.
But anyways, man, thank you so much for comingand sticking over for a few minutes.
And hopefully, we can hang out together at somepoint.
Yeah, absolutely.

(58:22):
No, I appreciate the opportunity and great tosee everybody dialed in and happy Thanksgiving.
And yeah, definitely let me know when you're inLA and we'll we'll we'll do some some fun
stuff.
Yeah.
Likewise.
Well, happy Thanksgiving, everybody.