December 30, 2024 • 29 mins
As we wrap up 2024, we’re bringing back our second-most-listened-to episode of the year: Change Perspective. Originally released earlier this year, this episode resonated with leaders who wanted to grow their curiosity, problem-solving skills, and adaptability.
Join Nathan Freeburg and Brian Schubring as they dive into why and how changing your perspective can transform your leadership and team dynamics.
What You'll Learn:
This reflective rebroadcast covers how shifting your perspective can help you:
- Understand Your Own Perspective – Reflect on your lived experiences and thought processes to identify how they shape your leadership.
- Embrace Curiosity – Ask "why" and seek input from others to uncover new possibilities and solve problems collaboratively.
- Work the Actual Problem – Use facts, not assumptions, to address challenges effectively and avoid tunnel vision.
Key Takeaway for 2025:
Take the risk to broaden your view—embracing new perspectives leads to better decisions, stronger relationships, and more inclusive leadership.
Why Listen Again?
As you prepare for the year ahead, this episode serves as a powerful reminder to stay open, curious, and willing to learn from those around you. Whether it’s your first time or a revisit, you’ll find actionable insights to implement in 2025.
Additional Resources:
- Explore articles, tools, and courses to help you grow as a leader at Leadership Vision Consulting.
- Have questions or want help improving your team? Reach out at connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com.
🎧 Don’t miss this inspiring rebroadcast as we close out the year and step into 2025 with fresh insights!
-
Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Leadership Vision Online
ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, it's Nathan again.
Happy holidays.
We are still on a little bit ofa break from new episodes and
we'll be back after the first ofthe year, but I wanted to share
reshare, I should say oursecond most popular episode of
the year, and that was one thatBrian and I did called Changing
your Perspective LeadershipReset, and in this episode, we
(00:22):
talked about how leaders canenhance decision making and
foster better relationships bysimply maybe not simply, but by
changing their perspective.
It's it's not easy Sometimes.
A couple of things to thinkabout as you listen is that one
of the things we talked aboutwas understanding your
perspective, so actually takingsome time to reflect on your
thought processes orrelationships and even energy
(00:44):
sources, just to gain clarity onhow you approach challenges.
The second thing was embracingcuriosity.
I think we need to do this a lotmore often asking why and
seeking input from others tojust broaden your understanding
and solve problems inclusively,and then finally working the
actual problem, so using factsto actually ground your
(01:04):
decisions and avoid like what Ithink is like, maybe like a
tunnel vision or assumptions.
You know, maybe assume positiveintent in others.
So as you finish up, as wefinish up 2024 and look ahead
into the future, take the riskto change your perspective.
It could lead to perhaps betterdecision making with, I think
(01:24):
is probably good for everyone.
That includes deeper trust andmaybe even a broader
understanding in your ownleadership journey of who you
are and your capacity toinfluence.
So listen now to just get somenew insights.
Maybe you already listened tothis episode.
Maybe it's time for a refresh,but regardless, we hope your
holiday season is going well,that you're getting some
(01:46):
rejuvenation, some recharging,some fuel, if you will, for the
start and launch of yourleadership journey in 2025.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So what do leaders do ?
They change their perspective.
Most leaders understand thattheir unique perspective is just
that unique.
But oftentimes, when thepressure increases and there's
decisions that need to be madeand we're facing really complex
problems, our perspectivesometimes narrows.
So what do we need to do?
We need to ask other people toenhance and broaden our unique
(02:22):
perspective so that we can makebetter decisions.
Changing your perspective itkeeps you open to learning and
increases your curiosity,Because as long as we understand
that our unique perspective islimited, we can change it by
asking other people to helpinform us.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you build apositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this for the past 25 years
so that people are mentallyengaged and emotionally healthy.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and before we
jump into the show, I want youto imagine standing at a
crossroads, where the path youchoose could redefine how you
(03:04):
solve problems, understandothers and even how you perceive
yourself.
Today, we're going to beexploring this idea that
changing your perspective isn'tjust about seeing things
differently.
It's a fundamental shift in howwe approach leadership.
Now, why is this shift crucial?
Well, our perspective shapeseverything our decisions, our
interactions and our ability tonavigate the complexities of
(03:27):
leadership.
It's molded by our experiences,our biases and our personal
narratives.
But you know, it's also limited, a fractional view of a much
larger reality.
Now, today we'll be discussinghow stepping back, or even maybe
aside, can open up newpossibilities and insights.
Joining me today is BrianShubring, our founder of
Leadership Vision, and todaywe're going to dive into why and
(03:50):
how leaders can benefit fromaltering their perspective.
We'll explore some concepts ofattitude, altitude,
amplification and approach inleadership perspectives, from
the power of mindfulness to theimpact of simple acts like
taking a walk, we'll uncover howthese shifts in viewpoint can
be both temporary and lasting,shaping our leadership and our
(04:11):
lives Now as leaders.
The way we see the world isn'tjust about our vision.
No, it's about our readiness toembrace change, to innovate and
to lead with empathy andinclusivity.
So, as we embark on thisjourney of reflection and
discovery, ask yourself how welldo I really know my own
perspective?
Brian hello, how are you today?
(04:39):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
I am well too.
We should shout out it isLinda's birthday today, the day
that we are recording this, andit's 50 degrees outside and
sunny it's 50 degrees outsideand sunny.
You know it's not quite thatwarm here in Portland, but as
I'm looking out my window in myoffice slash recording studio,
I'm reminded that like a year, alittle over a year ago, I
(05:01):
didn't have this view.
I couldn't see this tree inthis way because we did
remodeling, we put an office onthe top of our garage and I
thought it was just kind of acool illustration or a cool
metaphor as we're talking aboutchanging perspective today,
because I see trees in differentways.
I see my neighbor's like koipond, bamboo grove thing back
(05:25):
there in a way I'd never saw itbefore and I wonder if we can
begin this conversation, uh, byjust talking about, maybe.
What do you mean when you talkabout perspective?
You know it's one thing to lookout at the neighbor's yard
through the backyard and then goup, you know 15 feet to the
side.
What is?
What is the perspective of aleader?
(05:45):
Let's kind of define that asthe baseline and then we'll talk
about why and how we need tochange it.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
When I speak of perspective, I imagine someone
standing on a compass facing aspecific direction, and by
perspective I mean a person'sview on reality, like their
unique direction that they'refacing.
Their perspective is that greatclarity of what people see when
it comes to making decisions orhow they're building their
(06:13):
relationships and how they'rejust facing challenges.
It's something that is clear.
Perspective could be intuitiveand, as you mentioned in the
introduction, their perspective,or all of our perspectives, are
shaped by our lived experiences, lessons learned, meaningful
relationships, and thatperspective is something that is
unique to us.
No one else shares the sameperspective that we share, but
(06:37):
the mistake that sometimes wemake is that we believe that
everyone shares the sameperspective and everyone agrees
with the way that we see theworld, and so I think it's
really important for us toconsider what perspective do I
have and how is that perspectiveinforming how it is that I make
my way through the world?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So we're talking about why leaders should change
their perspective, but you justsaid we need to understand what
our perspective is.
Do you have to understand yourown perspective before you can
change it?
And how?
How?
How does one do that?
Like, uh, understand theirperspective where you're coming
from?
Um, I like what you said aboutlike kind of lived experiences,
(07:20):
and I immediately startedthinking about some other
podcasts where we're talkingabout like where you grew up and
your family of origin and likeall those different things.
So is that kind of where itstarts?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I think some really simple, real simple
questions to ask yourself whenit comes to you know,
understanding your uniqueperspective is ask yourself
questions like this what is mynatural and normal thought
process?
Second question is when itcomes to making decisions, when
is it that I feel I'm making thebest decisions?
Another question could be whattypes of people do I love to
(07:53):
hang out with, like, where do Inaturally spend my relational
time?
And the fourth question wouldbe where do you find your most
energy with other people?
And just think about the kindsof roles you're in where you
feel like you're really making acontribution.
If you ask yourself those foursimple questions, you can begin
to hone in on your uniqueperspective and what is giving
(08:16):
you the information that you'relooking for and what information
is coming clear when you'refacing that specific direction
in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I like that because you can do that in a variety of
different environments at work.
I don't know if you have muchchoice in your family, but like
in friend groups and other areasto try to identify.
Oh, this is my perspective.
This is who I like to be around.
This is the areas that kind ofnaturally sort of produce some
of the results that I want.
(08:44):
We've got Several reasons hereabout why leaders should change
their perspective.
I think we all know thatleadership involves change, and
so you know a variety ofdifferent change, whether that's
thrust upon you or you'redeciding it.
So when we're talking, addingthis into the sort of the mix,
the conversation about change,why is it important for leaders
(09:06):
to change their perspective?
You touched on it briefly inthe cold open, but maybe expand
on that.
I think there's a couple of keyreasons or benefits to doing
that.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, one of the things that I think is important
to consider when consideringyour perspective when you
navigate change, is that ourperspective usually embraces
specific patterns of how it isthat we navigate and deal with
change, and those patterns arethere because they've been
really helpful or successful forus and those patterns have been
reinforced over time.
However, there may be changesthat we're facing that our
(09:43):
patterns may not have theanswers, because our perspective
hasn't ever experienced thistype of change before.
So I think one of theopportunities for growth is when
change is happening.
Maybe one of the first thingswe do is we ask others how it is
that we may be processing ourdecision-making through that
(10:04):
change or what kind of attitudewe should be embracing in
navigating that change, becauseresiliency to change is crucial
when leading other people.
And how is it that your uniqueperspective is helping with the
resilience when change isarising?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, I think that resiliency to change is so
interesting.
You know, I have four youngkids and we're trying to build
some of those skills into them.
And what I always findinteresting is and I could get a
bunch of kid examples butwhenever I'm trying to solve a
problem.
So another key point here isthat there's an.
You know you can really do abetter job solving problems and
(10:48):
for me, I have a carpenter thatI've worked with for years and
whenever there's something I'mthinking to do, like to the
house, solve some little problem, I'm like I'm thinking of doing
this, is that a good idea?
And he quite often is like no,don't do that.
There's go buy this product ordo this thing.
Or you know it's like, oh, Iwasn't even aware of that.
It's almost like, you know, Iwas down the totally wrong aisle
(11:25):
at Home Depot.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So talk a little bit more about how an openness to
changing your perspective canreally help you solve problems,
make better decisions and, Iguess, ultimately arrive at a
more successful outcome, likeyour example is.
Whenever you're looking atproblem solving, you can be
guaranteed that every individualthat makes a comment on the
problem will have a differentperspective, and one of the
things that I think isinteresting is that leaders who
(11:45):
change their perspective they'renonjudgmental and they're not
threatened by other people'sperspectives.
They just see theseperspectives as different data
points and the determination onwhich would be the choice for
the problem that's facing them.
We don't know that yet.
We're just asking for differentperspectives because, just
think of it, a perspective islike a lens, like a lens through
(12:09):
which you're viewing a problemor you're viewing a decision,
and each of those lenses varies,and lived experience also
contributes to how a person isinterpreting what they're seeing
.
Through their lens.
You're actually increasing youradaptability to problem solving
(12:31):
.
You'll be achieving betteroutcomes and by asking for other
people's perspectives, you'reactually being more inclusive in
the problem solving and thedecision making, because you're
asking for people, yeah, socontribute.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
This reminds me a little bit of and I can't
remember the Malcolm Gladwell Ithink it was Malcolm Gladwell.
I read something in one of hisbooks about how it goes against
what you might think, butyounger you're talking about,
like surgeons, and youngersurgeons actually are better at
solving problems and makingdecisions versus older ones.
(13:06):
So, like, if you're going infor heart surgery, you don't
necessarily want the 60 year old, you know person who's been
doing it for 30 or 40 years,because they're so set in their
ways that they're not able, ifsomething goes wrong, they're
not able to like look for newsolutions, whereas you know
after they're, you know, wellcredentialed a younger person is
able to that.
So what's the key or the trickfor leaders?
(13:29):
I don't want to use this term,brian, but you have been a
leader for many years, longerthan I.
So how does someone with youryouthful exuberance continue to
be open to new perspective andto be willing to learn and
change their perspective, versusjust saying, oh, I've been
doing this forever, do it my way, it's right.
(13:50):
Does that make sense?
You see where I'm going withthis.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, it totally does , and I don't think that the
age-related comment that youmade.
It may be relevant, but what Ihave found is I'm often
surprised by leaders with a lotof experience who have always
practiced an openness to hearingother people's perspectives,
(14:13):
like they've been open tolistening people who are looking
over their shouldermetaphorically.
They're at decision-makingtables where everyone's voice is
included.
That's one side and the studythat you're referring to.
I've also read that same bookand I've seen that example cited
in other works and this ideathat surgeons, like a lot of us,
(14:39):
fall into successful patterningon how it is that we do what we
do.
And I think one of the exampleswas of a surgeon who asked for
an esteemed surgeon, a retiredsurgeon, to watch him do the
operation.
And this retired surgeon wasactually asking like why do you
(15:01):
make that approach?
So he was even curious like whyis it that your perspective
would say approach this the sameway, where if you change your
hand position or you change theway you're looking at this, it
would be a different procedure?
I like that because sometimeswe have a way that we physically
engage the world around us thatjust works for us and we're not
(15:25):
thinking about why it is thatwe're making that specific
physical or intellectualapproach to a problem.
Listening to other people'sperspectives with openness and
humility may result in us havinga completely different approach
that could be more efficient.
Maybe the decision has longerlasting implications, or a
(15:48):
unique perspective may remind usthat we already know what the
right thing to do is, or whatthe right decision already is,
and we just didn't see itbecause we were too locked in
and we're too close.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, and that closeness is sometimes like both
our greatest superpower and ourgreatest weakness.
And so, you know, I want tomove to the second part here and
talk about, like, how do weactually change our perspective?
And the first one I feel veryconnected with and just
embracing curiosity and askingwhat do you see and we've been
(16:22):
talking about this for a while,but I've been working with a
running coach for the past sixmonths just to try to, you know,
kind of fix some injuries andkind of get faster, now that I'm
a little bit of an older runner, and two races ago I was like
you know, hey, I've been doingthis for a long time, but I'm
just curious, you know, what doyou typically recommend, before
you know, to eat before a race?
(16:42):
Again, I've been doing this foryears kind of have the same
thing and he's like try avocadotoast.
And I was like what?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And he's like try avocado toast and I was like
what?
And he's I'm like why?
Like that is bring a toaster tothe.
Yeah, I know he's like we'll doit at home.
Where's there an outlet?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
exactly.
It's like a 20 meal at like afancy restaurant.
But he said like, and he's like.
The fat in the avocado actuallyslows down the processing of
like the goo that you'll takeright before the race, and so it
actually um it's, it's.
I mean it's a common thing, butI was like, ah, I never tried it
and I tried it and I mean I rana very good race.
(17:17):
I don't think it was justspecifically that, but point is,
I could have like been like I'mnot going to bother asking him
this question.
Uh, because of you know, I'vebeen doing this a long time, I
know what I'm doing.
I would have kept the same old,same old.
And so how do you encourageleaders you work with, who feel
like they're experts, to becurious enough?
Because sometimes I thinkcuriosity is either something
(17:38):
you have or don't have.
I mean, there's certainlythings that I'm very curious
about and other things that I'mnot, but how do you teach this
or grow this in someone Likewhat's your kind of I don't know
best activity or a tool or someway that we can like actually
become more curious?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
This is really interesting because one of the
simplest and most repeated waysthat I encourage leaders to be
curious is to ask this questionwell, why?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Well, why do you ask that, Brian?
Why do you ask them to ask that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
because we hear someone make a statement, we
watch them with certainbehaviors over time.
Then we complain about itbecause it like there's
something about what they'rethinking, what they're
contributing or how they'reacting that's not sitting right
with us, because maybe ourperspective doesn't see the
whole picture.
And I will often say to theseindividuals have you asked them
(18:36):
why?
And they're, and nine times outof ten their response is well,
why would I ask them that?
And my response is because youdon't know.
You don't know what themotivating factors were, you
don't know who else they weretalking to.
You don't know what themotivating factors were.
You don't know who else theywere talking to.
You don't know, maybe, whatdata points they were actually
using.
You're not sure what their endgoal was.
(18:59):
Ask them, because if there's anytension and there's tension in
a relationship and we're notcurious we're going to be
quicker to judge, to contain thetension.
And sometimes we're afraid toask why or what do you see or
what are you thinking, becausewe're afraid that our tension
will increase or the anxietywill increase.
(19:20):
And I have found that it'sexactly the opposite, that our
anxiety goes down because we'rehearing more information which
fills in more of the story.
So asking why?
And a secondary point to thisis I've often encouraged leaders
to ask individuals by name whatare you seeing, what are you
(19:44):
thinking as you're going throughthe decision making process?
So, as a leader is walking ateam through a decision-making
process, who are you actuallyinviting to contribute to the
solve?
Just by asking well, what doyou see, what are you thinking?
Or what decision do you thinkwe should be making?
Or what information are wemissing, what information are we
overemphasizing?
(20:05):
There are many different waysto ask this question.
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I think a quick tool is you can keep a journal to
sort of keep track of yourcuriosity or, you know, even
just Journaling is a greatactivity for a lot of reasons.
But even just kind of ask yourquestions in your head and then
be like, okay, I'm going to tryto figure these, you know, ask
these questions later, later.
(20:31):
This kind of leads us to oursecond point in asking you know,
what do you see?
Or asking why is you have to doit?
To cultivate understanding, orthat's one way to change your
perspective.
And what I have found issometimes the way I ask why
comes across as being criticaland sometimes it is why did you
do that?
But if I can get in the mindset, yeah, why in the world did you
(20:53):
do that?
It's all you know, the otherextra adjectives and adverbs you
have.
But so to cultivateunderstanding, and that's what I
think.
I want you to expand on thatmore because that's what I think
can be like.
So the example you gave earlierabout the team members like,
well, why would I ask them?
You know that person who wasasked why.
They might automatically thinkit's the way that I was just
(21:16):
doing it.
It's like because somethingcritical, but to truly help
people ask why, and cultivatingthat curiosity or embracing
curiosity, to cultivateunderstanding.
That seems a little tricky.
How do we what's an activity orwhat's a way that you can help
people do this more?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
One of the important things to ask with this idea of
cultivating understanding is toask what am I missing?
Is there any other informationthat will help us?
Or simply ask other peopledirectly what would you
contribute?
Because every time we ask thesequestions, we're gaining a
(21:58):
little more understanding onwhat is actually happening
around us and what's happeningwithin us.
Another way to cultivateunderstanding is to reflect or
ask other people when have wefaced this type of decision
before?
And to remind ourselves thatwe've navigated situations this
(22:18):
difficult before, to remindourselves of some of the lessons
that we've learned, to remindourselves of, maybe, what some
people did or how theycontributed.
I think that's another great wayto increase our understanding
is by asking some of thosehistoric, reflective types of
questions.
(22:38):
I also believe that cultivatingunderstanding should always
include the human element.
How are people feeling in thissituation?
What are some of the emotionsthat we might need to address as
we're making this decision?
To remember that we are allhuman beings, that we will most
likely gain a better sense ofunderstanding by considering the
(23:02):
human side of whatever the workis that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, yeah completely .
The third tip or reason how weactually change our perspective
is to enhance our analyticalskills and to work the and you
have in quotes actual problem.
What does that mean?
Expand?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
on that.
I often think that ourperspective overlooks our
analytical skills, and byanalytical skills I simply mean
our ability to critically think,our ability to integrate data
or information or other types ofinputs that we wouldn't
(23:43):
naturally integrate, because Ibelieve that human beings are
really great at solvingcomplexities into simplicities
with efficiency, and I alsobelieve that we have the
capacity to integrate key piecesof information when necessary
to work the actual problem,because sometimes, if we're more
(24:04):
intuitive, we may intuit ourway through a decision making
process and we on where theactual problem is or what the
actual contributing factors are.
And many times we overlookedthat.
How often have I met a leaderwho says they don't have the
(24:28):
time to consider some of thosesmaller details and some of the
facts of what's going on?
And I was in a conversation twodays ago and this leader was
saying facts are facts.
What are the facts?
What are the facts?
I thought.
Now, that is how you get toworking.
The actual problem is get pastthe opinions, get past the
(24:49):
intonation, get past theadjectives and remind yourself
what.
What are the facts, what arethose level of details that root
us back into the actual probleminstead of the perceived
inflated or over-amplifiedproblem?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Because sometimes, if your perspective as a leader is
you know, a simple example islike people love this product, I
feel it in my gut.
My perspective is people lovethis, but the facts say that
nobody is buying it, no one isdownloading it.
You know, the numbers keepgoing down month after month.
It's like, yeah, but I thinkwe've got something really great
.
It's like, well, the factsdon't suggest that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
so then, that's like people need to press down on an
actual keyboard on a phone.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
They want to have that right, that experience
right, there's a great um adam,one of adam grant's book.
He talks about how, like stevejobs and jeff bezos and a couple
other very famous uh, you knowbusiness, you know people build
these great companies allinvested in a segue and they
(25:51):
that's right.
Yeah, and there's like somereally segue again the segue is
like that stand little likething.
You see mall cops, even the shopwriting or like the Minneapolis
segue tours, um, but theythought they were going to
revolutionize the way humanslike transportation, exactly.
But my point is they were kindof ignoring a bunch of stuff
because their perspective was somyopic and so like tunnel
(26:15):
vision on this thing, and so Ithink this is a great example of
uh, you know, what can happento even brilliant leaders, even
people you know apple and amazonand like these companies that
are, you know, just giants andlike I mean, that's exactly what
can happen when you don'tchange your perspective.
But anyway, brian, how do wewrap this up?
If you could leave folks withlike one thing or one idea, or
(26:41):
one tip or tool or trick ormessage to begin their
leadership journey this yearwith some change in perspective
or an openness in perspective,what would that?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
be perspective.
What would that be?
My invitation to everyone wouldbe to embrace the risk of
changing your perspective,because I promise that the view
you gain from that changedperspective will stick with you
and it will inform you the nexttime you might be getting stuck.
Oh and, Nathan, this reminds meof a vacation that we were on,
(27:18):
where Camila, as you know, wasbegging us to go parasailing, so
the three of us up in aparasail.
But, as you know, once you getoff the deck of the boat, your
perspective changes immediatelyand then you can see a whole
different perspective of thelandscape, the topography, where
the hotels and the resorts were.
(27:39):
It's experiences like that,where it may not seem like it's
a good idea at first, but onceyou do change your perspective
it's memorable and the next timethe opportunity comes along you
may not be as reluctant to takethat challenge.
So think to yourself one of thetimes where you did take a risk
to change your perspective andyou gained that sense of
(28:01):
understanding.
Remember what that felt likeand how confident you were once
you changed your perspective andthat you didn't lose your own
perspective.
But that new perspective helpedinform you on making a better
decision, forming a strongerrelationship and building trust
with your team.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Brian, thank you so much.
This is always fun.
Thank you, nathan, appreciateit and thank you, listeners, for
listening to the LeadershipVision Podcast, our show helping
you build positive team culture.
If you had questions aboutanything you heard in this
episode or any of our otherpodcast episode or online
resources, we would love it.
You can reach out to us atconnect at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom,and we would just love to
(28:40):
interact with you to learn moreabout your team, you as an
individual leader and maybe howwe might help you build into a
leader who has greaterperspective and is able to
achieve more in the new year.
You can visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom,
or find us on all the socials.
Subscribe to this podcast,leave us a review, sign up for
(29:01):
our email newsletter all of thethings and we will get back to
you immediately with anyquestions.
I'm Nathan Friberg and I amBrian Schubert.
And on behalf of our entire teamthanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Thank you.
Hey everyone, it's Nathan again.
Happy holidays.
We are still on a little bit ofa break from new episodes and
we'll be back after the first ofthe year, but I wanted to share
reshare, I should say oursecond most popular episode of
the year, and that was one thatBrian and I did called Changing
your Perspective LeadershipReset, and in this episode, we
(00:22):
talked about how leaders canenhance decision making and
foster better relationships bysimply maybe not simply, but by
changing their perspective.
It's it's not easy Sometimes.
A couple of things to thinkabout as you listen is that one
of the things we talked aboutwas understanding your
perspective, so actually takingsome time to reflect on your
thought processes orrelationships and even energy
(00:44):
sources, just to gain clarity onhow you approach challenges.
The second thing was embracingcuriosity.
I think we need to do this a lotmore often asking why and
seeking input from others tojust broaden your understanding
and solve problems inclusively,and then finally working the
actual problem, so using factsto actually ground your
(01:04):
decisions and avoid like what Ithink is like, maybe like a
tunnel vision or assumptions.
You know, maybe assume positiveintent in others.
So as you finish up, as wefinish up 2024 and look ahead
into the future, take the riskto change your perspective.
It could lead to perhaps betterdecision making with, I think
(01:24):
is probably good for everyone.
That includes deeper trust andmaybe even a broader
understanding in your ownleadership journey of who you
are and your capacity toinfluence.
So listen now to just get somenew insights.
Maybe you already listened tothis episode.
Maybe it's time for a refresh,but regardless, we hope your
holiday season is going well,that you're getting some
(01:46):
rejuvenation, some recharging,some fuel, if you will, for the
start and launch of yourleadership journey in 2025.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So what do leaders do ?
They change their perspective.
Most leaders understand thattheir unique perspective is just
that unique.
But oftentimes, when thepressure increases and there's
decisions that need to be madeand we're facing really complex
problems, our perspectivesometimes narrows.
So what do we need to do?
We need to ask other people toenhance and broaden our unique
(02:22):
perspective so that we can makebetter decisions.
Changing your perspective itkeeps you open to learning and
increases your curiosity,Because as long as we understand
that our unique perspective islimited, we can change it by
asking other people to helpinform us.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you build apositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this for the past 25 years
so that people are mentallyengaged and emotionally healthy.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and before we
jump into the show, I want youto imagine standing at a
crossroads, where the path youchoose could redefine how you
(03:04):
solve problems, understandothers and even how you perceive
yourself.
Today, we're going to beexploring this idea that
changing your perspective isn'tjust about seeing things
differently.
It's a fundamental shift in howwe approach leadership.
Now, why is this shift crucial?
Well, our perspective shapeseverything our decisions, our
interactions and our ability tonavigate the complexities of
(03:27):
leadership.
It's molded by our experiences,our biases and our personal
narratives.
But you know, it's also limited, a fractional view of a much
larger reality.
Now, today we'll be discussinghow stepping back, or even maybe
aside, can open up newpossibilities and insights.
Joining me today is BrianShubring, our founder of
Leadership Vision, and todaywe're going to dive into why and
(03:50):
how leaders can benefit fromaltering their perspective.
We'll explore some concepts ofattitude, altitude,
amplification and approach inleadership perspectives, from
the power of mindfulness to theimpact of simple acts like
taking a walk, we'll uncover howthese shifts in viewpoint can
be both temporary and lasting,shaping our leadership and our
(04:11):
lives Now as leaders.
The way we see the world isn'tjust about our vision.
No, it's about our readiness toembrace change, to innovate and
to lead with empathy andinclusivity.
So, as we embark on thisjourney of reflection and
discovery, ask yourself how welldo I really know my own
perspective?
Brian hello, how are you today?
(04:39):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
I am well too.
We should shout out it isLinda's birthday today, the day
that we are recording this, andit's 50 degrees outside and
sunny it's 50 degrees outsideand sunny.
You know it's not quite thatwarm here in Portland, but as
I'm looking out my window in myoffice slash recording studio,
I'm reminded that like a year, alittle over a year ago, I
(05:01):
didn't have this view.
I couldn't see this tree inthis way because we did
remodeling, we put an office onthe top of our garage and I
thought it was just kind of acool illustration or a cool
metaphor as we're talking aboutchanging perspective today,
because I see trees in differentways.
I see my neighbor's like koipond, bamboo grove thing back
(05:25):
there in a way I'd never saw itbefore and I wonder if we can
begin this conversation, uh, byjust talking about, maybe.
What do you mean when you talkabout perspective?
You know it's one thing to lookout at the neighbor's yard
through the backyard and then goup, you know 15 feet to the
side.
What is?
What is the perspective of aleader?
(05:45):
Let's kind of define that asthe baseline and then we'll talk
about why and how we need tochange it.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
When I speak of perspective, I imagine someone
standing on a compass facing aspecific direction, and by
perspective I mean a person'sview on reality, like their
unique direction that they'refacing.
Their perspective is that greatclarity of what people see when
it comes to making decisions orhow they're building their
(06:13):
relationships and how they'rejust facing challenges.
It's something that is clear.
Perspective could be intuitiveand, as you mentioned in the
introduction, their perspective,or all of our perspectives, are
shaped by our lived experiences, lessons learned, meaningful
relationships, and thatperspective is something that is
unique to us.
No one else shares the sameperspective that we share, but
(06:37):
the mistake that sometimes wemake is that we believe that
everyone shares the sameperspective and everyone agrees
with the way that we see theworld, and so I think it's
really important for us toconsider what perspective do I
have and how is that perspectiveinforming how it is that I make
my way through the world?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So we're talking about why leaders should change
their perspective, but you justsaid we need to understand what
our perspective is.
Do you have to understand yourown perspective before you can
change it?
And how?
How?
How does one do that?
Like, uh, understand theirperspective where you're coming
from?
Um, I like what you said aboutlike kind of lived experiences,
(07:20):
and I immediately startedthinking about some other
podcasts where we're talkingabout like where you grew up and
your family of origin and likeall those different things.
So is that kind of where itstarts?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I think some really simple, real simple
questions to ask yourself whenit comes to you know,
understanding your uniqueperspective is ask yourself
questions like this what is mynatural and normal thought
process?
Second question is when itcomes to making decisions, when
is it that I feel I'm making thebest decisions?
Another question could be whattypes of people do I love to
(07:53):
hang out with, like, where do Inaturally spend my relational
time?
And the fourth question wouldbe where do you find your most
energy with other people?
And just think about the kindsof roles you're in where you
feel like you're really making acontribution.
If you ask yourself those foursimple questions, you can begin
to hone in on your uniqueperspective and what is giving
(08:16):
you the information that you'relooking for and what information
is coming clear when you'refacing that specific direction
in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I like that because you can do that in a variety of
different environments at work.
I don't know if you have muchchoice in your family, but like
in friend groups and other areasto try to identify.
Oh, this is my perspective.
This is who I like to be around.
This is the areas that kind ofnaturally sort of produce some
of the results that I want.
(08:44):
We've got Several reasons hereabout why leaders should change
their perspective.
I think we all know thatleadership involves change, and
so you know a variety ofdifferent change, whether that's
thrust upon you or you'redeciding it.
So when we're talking, addingthis into the sort of the mix,
the conversation about change,why is it important for leaders
(09:06):
to change their perspective?
You touched on it briefly inthe cold open, but maybe expand
on that.
I think there's a couple of keyreasons or benefits to doing
that.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, one of the things that I think is important
to consider when consideringyour perspective when you
navigate change, is that ourperspective usually embraces
specific patterns of how it isthat we navigate and deal with
change, and those patterns arethere because they've been
really helpful or successful forus and those patterns have been
reinforced over time.
However, there may be changesthat we're facing that our
(09:43):
patterns may not have theanswers, because our perspective
hasn't ever experienced thistype of change before.
So I think one of theopportunities for growth is when
change is happening.
Maybe one of the first thingswe do is we ask others how it is
that we may be processing ourdecision-making through that
(10:04):
change or what kind of attitudewe should be embracing in
navigating that change, becauseresiliency to change is crucial
when leading other people.
And how is it that your uniqueperspective is helping with the
resilience when change isarising?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, I think that resiliency to change is so
interesting.
You know, I have four youngkids and we're trying to build
some of those skills into them.
And what I always findinteresting is and I could get a
bunch of kid examples butwhenever I'm trying to solve a
problem.
So another key point here isthat there's an.
You know you can really do abetter job solving problems and
(10:48):
for me, I have a carpenter thatI've worked with for years and
whenever there's something I'mthinking to do, like to the
house, solve some little problem, I'm like I'm thinking of doing
this, is that a good idea?
And he quite often is like no,don't do that.
There's go buy this product ordo this thing.
Or you know it's like, oh, Iwasn't even aware of that.
It's almost like, you know, Iwas down the totally wrong aisle
(11:25):
at Home Depot.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So talk a little bit more about how an openness to
changing your perspective canreally help you solve problems,
make better decisions and, Iguess, ultimately arrive at a
more successful outcome, likeyour example is.
Whenever you're looking atproblem solving, you can be
guaranteed that every individualthat makes a comment on the
problem will have a differentperspective, and one of the
things that I think isinteresting is that leaders who
(11:45):
change their perspective they'renonjudgmental and they're not
threatened by other people'sperspectives.
They just see theseperspectives as different data
points and the determination onwhich would be the choice for
the problem that's facing them.
We don't know that yet.
We're just asking for differentperspectives because, just
think of it, a perspective islike a lens, like a lens through
(12:09):
which you're viewing a problemor you're viewing a decision,
and each of those lenses varies,and lived experience also
contributes to how a person isinterpreting what they're seeing
.
Through their lens.
You're actually increasing youradaptability to problem solving
(12:31):
.
You'll be achieving betteroutcomes and by asking for other
people's perspectives, you'reactually being more inclusive in
the problem solving and thedecision making, because you're
asking for people, yeah, socontribute.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
This reminds me a little bit of and I can't
remember the Malcolm Gladwell Ithink it was Malcolm Gladwell.
I read something in one of hisbooks about how it goes against
what you might think, butyounger you're talking about,
like surgeons, and youngersurgeons actually are better at
solving problems and makingdecisions versus older ones.
(13:06):
So, like, if you're going infor heart surgery, you don't
necessarily want the 60 year old, you know person who's been
doing it for 30 or 40 years,because they're so set in their
ways that they're not able, ifsomething goes wrong, they're
not able to like look for newsolutions, whereas you know
after they're, you know, wellcredentialed a younger person is
able to that.
So what's the key or the trickfor leaders?
(13:29):
I don't want to use this term,brian, but you have been a
leader for many years, longerthan I.
So how does someone with youryouthful exuberance continue to
be open to new perspective andto be willing to learn and
change their perspective, versusjust saying, oh, I've been
doing this forever, do it my way, it's right.
(13:50):
Does that make sense?
You see where I'm going withthis.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, it totally does , and I don't think that the
age-related comment that youmade.
It may be relevant, but what Ihave found is I'm often
surprised by leaders with a lotof experience who have always
practiced an openness to hearingother people's perspectives,
(14:13):
like they've been open tolistening people who are looking
over their shouldermetaphorically.
They're at decision-makingtables where everyone's voice is
included.
That's one side and the studythat you're referring to.
I've also read that same bookand I've seen that example cited
in other works and this ideathat surgeons, like a lot of us,
(14:39):
fall into successful patterningon how it is that we do what we
do.
And I think one of the exampleswas of a surgeon who asked for
an esteemed surgeon, a retiredsurgeon, to watch him do the
operation.
And this retired surgeon wasactually asking like why do you
(15:01):
make that approach?
So he was even curious like whyis it that your perspective
would say approach this the sameway, where if you change your
hand position or you change theway you're looking at this, it
would be a different procedure?
I like that because sometimeswe have a way that we physically
engage the world around us thatjust works for us and we're not
(15:25):
thinking about why it is thatwe're making that specific
physical or intellectualapproach to a problem.
Listening to other people'sperspectives with openness and
humility may result in us havinga completely different approach
that could be more efficient.
Maybe the decision has longerlasting implications, or a
(15:48):
unique perspective may remind usthat we already know what the
right thing to do is, or whatthe right decision already is,
and we just didn't see itbecause we were too locked in
and we're too close.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, and that closeness is sometimes like both
our greatest superpower and ourgreatest weakness.
And so, you know, I want tomove to the second part here and
talk about, like, how do weactually change our perspective?
And the first one I feel veryconnected with and just
embracing curiosity and askingwhat do you see and we've been
(16:22):
talking about this for a while,but I've been working with a
running coach for the past sixmonths just to try to, you know,
kind of fix some injuries andkind of get faster, now that I'm
a little bit of an older runner, and two races ago I was like
you know, hey, I've been doingthis for a long time, but I'm
just curious, you know, what doyou typically recommend, before
you know, to eat before a race?
(16:42):
Again, I've been doing this foryears kind of have the same
thing and he's like try avocadotoast.
And I was like what?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And he's like try avocado toast and I was like
what?
And he's I'm like why?
Like that is bring a toaster tothe.
Yeah, I know he's like we'll doit at home.
Where's there an outlet?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
exactly.
It's like a 20 meal at like afancy restaurant.
But he said like, and he's like.
The fat in the avocado actuallyslows down the processing of
like the goo that you'll takeright before the race, and so it
actually um it's, it's.
I mean it's a common thing, butI was like, ah, I never tried it
and I tried it and I mean I rana very good race.
(17:17):
I don't think it was justspecifically that, but point is,
I could have like been like I'mnot going to bother asking him
this question.
Uh, because of you know, I'vebeen doing this a long time, I
know what I'm doing.
I would have kept the same old,same old.
And so how do you encourageleaders you work with, who feel
like they're experts, to becurious enough?
Because sometimes I thinkcuriosity is either something
(17:38):
you have or don't have.
I mean, there's certainlythings that I'm very curious
about and other things that I'mnot, but how do you teach this
or grow this in someone Likewhat's your kind of I don't know
best activity or a tool or someway that we can like actually
become more curious?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
This is really interesting because one of the
simplest and most repeated waysthat I encourage leaders to be
curious is to ask this questionwell, why?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Well, why do you ask that, Brian?
Why do you ask them to ask that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
because we hear someone make a statement, we
watch them with certainbehaviors over time.
Then we complain about itbecause it like there's
something about what they'rethinking, what they're
contributing or how they'reacting that's not sitting right
with us, because maybe ourperspective doesn't see the
whole picture.
And I will often say to theseindividuals have you asked them
(18:36):
why?
And they're, and nine times outof ten their response is well,
why would I ask them that?
And my response is because youdon't know.
You don't know what themotivating factors were, you
don't know who else they weretalking to.
You don't know what themotivating factors were.
You don't know who else theywere talking to.
You don't know, maybe, whatdata points they were actually
using.
You're not sure what their endgoal was.
(18:59):
Ask them, because if there's anytension and there's tension in
a relationship and we're notcurious we're going to be
quicker to judge, to contain thetension.
And sometimes we're afraid toask why or what do you see or
what are you thinking, becausewe're afraid that our tension
will increase or the anxietywill increase.
(19:20):
And I have found that it'sexactly the opposite, that our
anxiety goes down because we'rehearing more information which
fills in more of the story.
So asking why?
And a secondary point to thisis I've often encouraged leaders
to ask individuals by name whatare you seeing, what are you
(19:44):
thinking as you're going throughthe decision making process?
So, as a leader is walking ateam through a decision-making
process, who are you actuallyinviting to contribute to the
solve?
Just by asking well, what doyou see, what are you thinking?
Or what decision do you thinkwe should be making?
Or what information are wemissing, what information are we
overemphasizing?
(20:05):
There are many different waysto ask this question.
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I think a quick tool is you can keep a journal to
sort of keep track of yourcuriosity or, you know, even
just Journaling is a greatactivity for a lot of reasons.
But even just kind of ask yourquestions in your head and then
be like, okay, I'm going to tryto figure these, you know, ask
these questions later, later.
(20:31):
This kind of leads us to oursecond point in asking you know,
what do you see?
Or asking why is you have to doit?
To cultivate understanding, orthat's one way to change your
perspective.
And what I have found issometimes the way I ask why
comes across as being criticaland sometimes it is why did you
do that?
But if I can get in the mindset, yeah, why in the world did you
(20:53):
do that?
It's all you know, the otherextra adjectives and adverbs you
have.
But so to cultivateunderstanding, and that's what I
think.
I want you to expand on thatmore because that's what I think
can be like.
So the example you gave earlierabout the team members like,
well, why would I ask them?
You know that person who wasasked why.
They might automatically thinkit's the way that I was just
(21:16):
doing it.
It's like because somethingcritical, but to truly help
people ask why, and cultivatingthat curiosity or embracing
curiosity, to cultivateunderstanding.
That seems a little tricky.
How do we what's an activity orwhat's a way that you can help
people do this more?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
One of the important things to ask with this idea of
cultivating understanding is toask what am I missing?
Is there any other informationthat will help us?
Or simply ask other peopledirectly what would you
contribute?
Because every time we ask thesequestions, we're gaining a
(21:58):
little more understanding onwhat is actually happening
around us and what's happeningwithin us.
Another way to cultivateunderstanding is to reflect or
ask other people when have wefaced this type of decision
before?
And to remind ourselves thatwe've navigated situations this
(22:18):
difficult before, to remindourselves of some of the lessons
that we've learned, to remindourselves of, maybe, what some
people did or how theycontributed.
I think that's another great wayto increase our understanding
is by asking some of thosehistoric, reflective types of
questions.
(22:38):
I also believe that cultivatingunderstanding should always
include the human element.
How are people feeling in thissituation?
What are some of the emotionsthat we might need to address as
we're making this decision?
To remember that we are allhuman beings, that we will most
likely gain a better sense ofunderstanding by considering the
(23:02):
human side of whatever the workis that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, yeah completely .
The third tip or reason how weactually change our perspective
is to enhance our analyticalskills and to work the and you
have in quotes actual problem.
What does that mean?
Expand?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
on that.
I often think that ourperspective overlooks our
analytical skills, and byanalytical skills I simply mean
our ability to critically think,our ability to integrate data
or information or other types ofinputs that we wouldn't
(23:43):
naturally integrate, because Ibelieve that human beings are
really great at solvingcomplexities into simplicities
with efficiency, and I alsobelieve that we have the
capacity to integrate key piecesof information when necessary
to work the actual problem,because sometimes, if we're more
(24:04):
intuitive, we may intuit ourway through a decision making
process and we on where theactual problem is or what the
actual contributing factors are.
And many times we overlookedthat.
How often have I met a leaderwho says they don't have the
(24:28):
time to consider some of thosesmaller details and some of the
facts of what's going on?
And I was in a conversation twodays ago and this leader was
saying facts are facts.
What are the facts?
What are the facts?
I thought.
Now, that is how you get toworking.
The actual problem is get pastthe opinions, get past the
(24:49):
intonation, get past theadjectives and remind yourself
what.
What are the facts, what arethose level of details that root
us back into the actual probleminstead of the perceived
inflated or over-amplifiedproblem?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Because sometimes, if your perspective as a leader is
you know, a simple example islike people love this product, I
feel it in my gut.
My perspective is people lovethis, but the facts say that
nobody is buying it, no one isdownloading it.
You know, the numbers keepgoing down month after month.
It's like, yeah, but I thinkwe've got something really great
.
It's like, well, the factsdon't suggest that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
so then, that's like people need to press down on an
actual keyboard on a phone.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
They want to have that right, that experience
right, there's a great um adam,one of adam grant's book.
He talks about how, like stevejobs and jeff bezos and a couple
other very famous uh, you knowbusiness, you know people build
these great companies allinvested in a segue and they
(25:51):
that's right.
Yeah, and there's like somereally segue again the segue is
like that stand little likething.
You see mall cops, even the shopwriting or like the Minneapolis
segue tours, um, but theythought they were going to
revolutionize the way humanslike transportation, exactly.
But my point is they were kindof ignoring a bunch of stuff
because their perspective was somyopic and so like tunnel
(26:15):
vision on this thing, and so Ithink this is a great example of
uh, you know, what can happento even brilliant leaders, even
people you know apple and amazonand like these companies that
are, you know, just giants andlike I mean, that's exactly what
can happen when you don'tchange your perspective.
But anyway, brian, how do wewrap this up?
If you could leave folks withlike one thing or one idea, or
(26:41):
one tip or tool or trick ormessage to begin their
leadership journey this yearwith some change in perspective
or an openness in perspective,what would that?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
be perspective.
What would that be?
My invitation to everyone wouldbe to embrace the risk of
changing your perspective,because I promise that the view
you gain from that changedperspective will stick with you
and it will inform you the nexttime you might be getting stuck.
Oh and, Nathan, this reminds meof a vacation that we were on,
(27:18):
where Camila, as you know, wasbegging us to go parasailing, so
the three of us up in aparasail.
But, as you know, once you getoff the deck of the boat, your
perspective changes immediatelyand then you can see a whole
different perspective of thelandscape, the topography, where
the hotels and the resorts were.
(27:39):
It's experiences like that,where it may not seem like it's
a good idea at first, but onceyou do change your perspective
it's memorable and the next timethe opportunity comes along you
may not be as reluctant to takethat challenge.
So think to yourself one of thetimes where you did take a risk
to change your perspective andyou gained that sense of
(28:01):
understanding.
Remember what that felt likeand how confident you were once
you changed your perspective andthat you didn't lose your own
perspective.
But that new perspective helpedinform you on making a better
decision, forming a strongerrelationship and building trust
with your team.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Brian, thank you so much.
This is always fun.
Thank you, nathan, appreciateit and thank you, listeners, for
listening to the LeadershipVision Podcast, our show helping
you build positive team culture.
If you had questions aboutanything you heard in this
episode or any of our otherpodcast episode or online
resources, we would love it.
You can reach out to us atconnect at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom,and we would just love to
(28:40):
interact with you to learn moreabout your team, you as an
individual leader and maybe howwe might help you build into a
leader who has greaterperspective and is able to
achieve more in the new year.
You can visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom,
or find us on all the socials.
Subscribe to this podcast,leave us a review, sign up for
(29:01):
our email newsletter all of thethings and we will get back to
you immediately with anyquestions.
I'm Nathan Friberg and I amBrian Schubert.
And on behalf of our entire teamthanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!