November 10, 2025 • 43 mins
What happens when you’ve been changed by a powerful experience—growth, success, or transformation—and then return to the same environment that hasn’t changed with you? In this episode of The Leadership Vision Podcast, Nathan Freeburg talks with Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring to unpack Chapter 5 of Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane. Together, they explore what it means for leaders to come “home” after transformation—to re-enter familiar places with new eyes, integrate learning without losing authenticity, and respond to misunderstanding or resistance with grounded self-acceptance.
You’ll discover how to navigate post-growth tension, recognize the “maps” that guide your next chapter, and turn personal insight into collective growth. For leaders who want to grow without leaving others behind, this episode reframes home as the true beginning of impact.
Episode Overview
This conversation invites leaders to think of home as a metaphor for integration—the moment when transformation becomes an integral part of daily life. Nathan, Linda, and Brian reflect on how growth changes our inner landscape and why it can feel disorienting to return to familiar roles or teams afterward. Using the story of OC, the origami crane, they explore how to balance confidence with humility, courage with rest, and individuality with community.
Key Takeaways
- Growth requires reintegration. Real transformation isn’t complete until you’ve learned how to bring it home.
- Self-acceptance sustains flight. You don’t need to prove your growth—own it, rest in it, and live from it.
- Criticism often follows courage. Expect pushback after change; learn to listen without losing your center.
- “Home” restores and relaunches. Renewal, reflection, and rest give leaders the capacity to serve again.
- Your “map” was always within. The wisdom, strengths, and potential you need have been part of you all along.
Things to Think About While Listening
- When have you returned to a familiar place or team after a period of personal or professional growth?
- How did others respond—and how did you respond to their reactions?
- What practices help you effectively reintegrate new learning without minimizing its impact?
- Where are the “maps” in your own leadership story that guide your next chapter?
- How can you create space for others who are returning home changed?
Notable Quotes
🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!
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Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
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ABOUT
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
And part of returning to home is to be in a
place where we can rest and berestored so that we have the
fitness or the ability or thewellness to then continue to
give more, to serve more, and tofly again.
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
And flyers need people at home.
And the characters that helpedOC with flight, they wanted to
reap the benefits as well.
Even the harsh voices.
And so if you think of home,think of the places where you
feel most at peace, where youfeel like yourself, and the
(00:38):
places where you have grown,where you need to reintroduce
yourself to another.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has spentthe past 25 years doing this
work so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show notes
or visit us on the web atLeadership Vision
Consulting.com.
Hello, everyone.
(01:09):
My name is Nathan Freeberg, andtoday on the podcast, we are
continuing on our conversationwith Dr.
Linda and Brian Schuberg as weunfold the next chapter of their
book, Unfolded Lessons andTransformation from an Origami
Crane.
This is the fifth chapter titledHome, where O.C.
the origami crane returns fromher adventure of flight,
(01:31):
changed, exhilarated, and unsureof how her transformation will
be received.
Now, some of her friends theycelebrate her courage, but
others question her choices, andstill others, well, they feel a
little bit left behind.
Now, this chapter invites us toreflect on what happens when we
come home differently, whenwe've grown, when we've
(01:51):
stretched and taken flight.
But the world around us maybehasn't changed as we have.
It's about learning to loveourselves through all the
voices, internal and external,that question who or what we've
become.
Now, at its heart, home remindsus that the journey of
transformation doesn't end whenwe land.
In many ways, that's when thereal work of integration begins.
(02:14):
This is the Leadership VisionPodcast.
Enjoy.
Brian and Linda, first I justwant to say welcome home to you
as you have come home toMinneapolis from uh your work
with clients abroad.
SPEAKER_04 (02:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:31):
Um there's a link in the show notes to we did a
podcast summarizing that.
Are you integrated at home?
Do you feel like the jet lag hasworn off?
Are you home and happy?
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
We're home.
Yesterday was our fourth day inthe States, and yesterday was my
declared no-nap day.
Ah, how'd that go?
It went great.
Okay.
I made it all the way through.
I had one moment.
Yep, until the Vikings gamestarted and I fell asleep.
Anyway, okay.
So I made it to 7 15.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Well, good job.
Congratulations.
Linda.
Yes.
Linda sounds like you have alittle bit of a European cold,
I'm brought up.
A little bit of a European cold.
SPEAKER_03 (03:11):
Yes, the souvenir that no one wants.
SPEAKER_02 (03:13):
Exactly.
So, Brian, Linda, before we jumpinto this, I just want you to
set up this chapter, maybe put alittle frame.
It's the fifth chapter.
It's kind of the end of theallegory.
How does this sort of fall inwith the rest of the story?
Maybe just briefly summarize andtell us about it, and then we're
gonna dive into something I havehighlighted here on page 62.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Well, for me, home is perhaps the most meaningful
of the chapters.
Um, even though I have afavorite chapter, it's not home,
but this is the most meaningfulchapter of the book.
Home for me is so symbolic ofmany, many things for me as a
person and as a professional.
And there are many layers thatare embedded in just this one
(03:59):
chapter about the importance ofhome.
I feel that people are alwayslooking for the feelings that
are attached to home.
Uh, people want to feel safe andsecure somewhere, and sometimes
we know where that is when wethink of a physical place, but
for me, home is symbolic of atrue returning to our authentic
(04:23):
self.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
And in the context of the book, you know, the first
chapter being dream, secondchapter being play, third
chapter try, fourth chapter,fly, fifth chapter home.
And it is a coming home, it isdefining and describing home in
new ways, and it's when O.C.
(04:47):
has her soft landing back in theplayground.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah, that's another thing I will maybe get there.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Uh the first line.
OC returned to the park in asoft landing between the
branches of the cottonwoodtrees.
I don't know that home is alwaysa soft landing, is it?
Like, what's the significance ofthat?
It it feels like it's a softlanding, but then it quickly
gets pretty rough for her.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
Yes.
Yes.
And I think that's why we saidthat at first.
Once again, every word waschosen in particular for for
this allegory.
And and we just wanted to saythat with all the the bumps and
bruises that she has had in herattempt to fly when she came
(05:32):
back home, that it was a that itwas a soft landing.
And it just warms you up alittle bit to what's gonna
actually happen.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
And I want to make sure that that first line of
this chapter set the tone andset the mood for the theme of
the chapter.
And that soft landing is in mymind the welcome that happens
when we do return home.
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (05:56):
I will get to what definition of home is, but we'll
be able to do that.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
That's that's we're gonna get there.
The uh side note, the most Lindasentence in this whole book, I
think, comes from this chapter.
Which one is that?
Do you know what I'm gonna say?
No.
Stop whispering, jokers.
Fucking that is Linda.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
I remember Nathan when Linda wrote that line,
because we were in PuertoVallarta, and she came um to the
pool where I was waiting forsome of the edits that that she
was making, and she came backwith that edit, and she did not
tell me it was coming.
And so I'm so once you read it,I just burst out laughing, like,
yes, absolutely yes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Well, and uh in truth, truth be told, it is an
Easter egg for my friend Kevin,um who I went to grad school
with at Ball State University,and he would call people crazy
jokers.
And it was just something that Ihave taken with me over almost
30 years.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
When we took that group of students to Montana in
like 2008 or whatever, Iremember you said that a lot.
And so this is uh this is mythird time through.
I think I must have missed itthe first two times because I
like like you, Brian, I waslike, ha, like visibly outlined.
I want to um go back to page 62here.
Okay.
Okay, because I uh, you know, insome ways, when you read a book,
(07:16):
you're like, I I really want toask the authors about this.
There's there's a lot to unpack,and maybe this is not as
significant as I feel like itis, but let's let's see what
happens.
Okay, so put top of page 62.
Owl uh listened.
So OC is kind of talking, how'dit go?
What happened?
Da-da-da.
And so Owl offers this.
Remember to learn to fly is tolearn to love, to love and
(07:37):
accept yourself for who you are,to love in the shadows beneath
the trees, to love yourself inthe light of the clear blue
skies, to love yourself withthose who doubt and criticize
you, and to love yourself amongthose who love you most.
Keep flying and don't forget toland and love.
Each one of those sentences itfeels like could be a separate
(08:00):
book.
Ta just talk to me about this.
I I have so many questions, butI I want to just sort of like
just talk to me about thischapter because or this this
paragraph in this chapterbecause it it seems like it's
the whole point that learning tofly, so basically the whole
first five chapters to get tothat point is learning to love.
(08:23):
And so loving all thesedifferent things.
So unpack that.
Help help me under help us, thelisteners, understand this
paragraph and if it's assignificant as I feel like it
is.
It is.
(08:49):
For those of you not watching,Brian is kind of crying.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
He's a bit for Clemson.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Um I was writing this chapter, there was a moment
where I started writing ameditation, and the meditation
was reflective of my own journeyand my own journey home.
And I chose to not write this asa meditation.
I chose to put the meditation inthe voice of Owl.
(09:16):
Because that first line,remember to learn to fly is to
learn to love, to love andaccept yourself for who you are.
Those two sentences encapsulatethe last three years of my
journey of self-compassion andbeing guided by a coach helping
me to understand who I am.
(09:36):
To know Brian is to know someonewho dreams, to know Brian is to
know someone who does whatever Ican to be the best I can at
flight.
And so, like, how do I take adream and make it a reality?
And I've done that for decades,trying to build or grow or do or
achieve something, which in mymind is flight, without a true
sense of self-acceptance andself-love.
(09:58):
And one of the first things thatmy self-compassion and
mindfulness coach uh started toteach me was to love who I am.
And what I've learned is thattrue flight begins with loving
yourself because love setsthings free.
And when we love ourselves, welove our identity just as I am,
(10:22):
as I am, right here, right now,that expression of self-love
that is the true beginning offlight.
And so this paragraph is inessence layers of my
self-compassion, mindfulness,and self-acceptance journey of
the last three years as toldthrough the voice of Owl.
(10:42):
Who is Owl then?
SPEAKER_02 (10:45):
Is that your coach?
Is that No, it's Owl.
I know, but I I'm uh like Owl istelling this to OC, right?
You learn to tell yourself thesethings through this coach and
through other people helpingyou.
So is there a not that there's aone-to-one correlation between
(11:07):
all the characters and people inyour life, but who what would
be, I guess, maybe the messageto readers and listeners of you
know, remember to learn to flyis to learn to love, to love
yourself.
Like who can the all be in ourown lives?
Is that ourselves?
Like what like you know, do youknow see I'm asking here?
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Kind of welcome to the allegory.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah, I know.
That's why I say allegory, yeah.
Um at least it's not in a cave.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
That'd be really it can this voice can come from a
person, people, places,experiences.
I wouldn't want to try to limitit to just one thing.
Yeah, however, the reminder forme is in that last sentence, and
that that last sentence, andthis is truly what I've learned
through Amy, and that is oh oh,by the way, Brian, keep flying.
(11:55):
Yeah, like she's not saying thatthere is any judgment in in the
desire to do or to accomplish oror to achieve, but remember that
there's always a place to landand to love, and and and that is
to remember that there is agrounding and an anchoring and a
centering for you where you canremind yourself of the love you
(12:18):
have for yourself, and mostimportantly, or one of the
important parts of this book andfor this chapter is then how to
give that away.
Like, how is it that you cancreate places and spaces for
others to not feel shame orcriticism for dreaming or
flying?
And to then reflect on thatself-love and what that truly
(12:40):
means, and how we can teach andgive that away to other people.
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
Nathan, I appreciate that you've called out this
paragraph, and Brian, it's goodto hear the origins once again.
I think this paragraph is areminder to the reader, maybe
not little kids, but uh maybe anol older, more mature uh reader
that this book is actually alove story.
(13:06):
And it's a love story invitingpeople to love themselves.
And the way that we approach itisn't starting with like, well,
I'm good enough and I'm smartenough.
Instead, I I have dreams, eventhough they may look different.
I I have this opportunity toplay and tinker.
(13:26):
I've I've tried many things,I've even taken flight, and at
the end, can you embrace thelove not for the world or for
the place, um, but actually forthe person, and that is you.
And can you accept theinvitation to love yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
I remember a conversation that Linda and I
had early, early, early.
I mean, even before manuscriptone, and I was talking to Linda
about the things that this bookis going to be, and love story
was the first one.
This is gonna be a love story,and at that point, it was me.
I'm trying to set this up as.
And when Linda and I startedworking together, we knew that
(14:08):
Unfolded is a love story beingtold through an allegory taking
place in a playground involvingseveral characters.
It is a love story.
Um, it is a love story aboutO.C.
loving herself.
It is a story about Owldemonstrating love.
It's a story about YC's love forlike sibling with sibling, and
(14:33):
it's a story about how Turtledemonstrates love.
It's a demonstration of lovethroughout the entire story.
Strickly love and thequestionable love from and how
edges in relationships help uslove those that may seem
unlovable.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
So if I want to pick it up there, if we if we could
take out the rest of page 62,63, most of 64, and the top part
of 65.
I don't know I don't know ifyou're able to see this, but I
kind of marked Did you cut out?
I I marked well, I marked withuh your yellow highlighter D's
(15:11):
that were like doubts, and Imarked with C's um
confirmations.
I forget my name thingcriticism.
No, there it was positive.
Basically, I marked negativethings and positive things.
So we have this beautiful thingabout loving and and flying and
don't forget to land in love,and YC after that, YC's like,
yeah, I knew you could do it.
(15:31):
And then we got Fox and Rabbit,who are basically like I'm gonna
each time they one, you suck,two, you sucks, three, you suck,
four, you suck, five, now you'reruined, six, don't ever do that
again.
Uh seven, looks like you'restuck like that.
Eight, just accept who you are,stop doing it.
(15:52):
Then YC's like, I don't know.
And then nine is the stopwhispering, well, stop
whispering jokers, uh you suck.
So you metaphorically andliterally come crashing down to
reality of like, love yourself.
You're awesome, you did thisthing, and then nine negative
comments telling you you suck,you shouldn't do that.
(16:15):
How do we as humans balance?
Uh in the introduction, I saidsomething about like uh learning
to love yourself through all ofthose internal and external
voices.
How do we not let those externalyou suck voices just penetrate
and be like, yeah, yeah, Ishouldn't have done that?
Look at all these people thatare supposedly my friends.
(16:36):
So talk me through that a littlebit because a bit of a bummer,
guys, before we go back up intogo.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
Right.
Well, the f so it goes back tosoft landing.
So we started with the softlanding, and then you're
pointing out all these toughthings once again.
And I think in the moments oflike I'm gonna land and
everything's gonna be different,and I can't wait to share my
story, and I'm just so in love,and then like no, you're not,
(17:07):
no, you know, and all the allthe negative, all the negative
messages, and I think it almostpoints to I don't know if we did
this on purpose, but it pointsto like it's worth it.
Like it's um that the that thechallenge is worth it.
If it was just easy to love, umthe whole world would get along.
And when I think about some ofthe polarities and the extremes
(17:32):
that we are invited to live inright now, it's the ones that
like I'm willing, I'm willing tofight for this, or I'm willing
to uh this is meaningful.
And sometimes those harsh voiceskind of help you think about
what you actually care about andwhat you're willing to give your
life to, and it informs you whoyou are and who you're not.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
And we really wanted to capture what actually happens
after people take risk and havea quote unquote successful risk.
SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
Totally.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Um, oftentimes when that happens, we create that
standout moment when we're inflow, when things are going
right.
We feel great.
And that's oftentimes the placeand time when people become
really critical because of maybethey feel like they're missing
out or they didn't take the riskwith you, or they're trying to
remind you of who you quotereally are.
And that that real lifeexperience, I think many people
(18:27):
feel that there's like oncepeople return from their flight,
they feel this metaphoriccollision of emotions that
happen when they land.
And one of the things that comesto my mind when I read that
section is you know, of the nineor or or ten negative statements
that you named, Nathan, they'rethere in repetition because I
(18:52):
believe that whenever theexternal voices are being heard
by us after our flight, we havetwo or three rebound negative
voices within our own mind.
And the overwhelming nature ofthat negative narrative, that's
real.
There's a friend of mine on myon my my swim team when I asked
her what she felt about the thebook.
(19:15):
She talked about this section,and what she said to me, Nathan,
was by that point in the book, Iwas just so tired of Fox.
Like I just I just wanted him tojust go away.
And then she said this, butthat's kind of how my dialogue
goes too.
Uh-huh.
And so this connection to welearn to live with our emotions,
(19:35):
whether our emotions are youknow experienced as positive or
negative.
What we wanted to be able toconvey was in the midst of
flight and joy and happiness, westill had to learn, or the
invitation is still to learn tolive with our emotions and the
emotions we're receiving fromothers.
SPEAKER_02 (19:52):
Yeah.
Well, and it's interesting.
I was just scanning this againand and remembering there was of
those nine or ten things, therewas one internal doubt from OC.
And then YC, if you remember, islike this is kind of the
positive thing amongst all ofthat.
Um sometimes your dreams affectyour friends, and lice and YC is
(20:15):
like, yeah, like me.
And then Rabbit is like, no,don't pay attention to OC.
They're ruining your like thepumping your head full of all of
this gibberish.
And you know, sometimes it canbe so hard to well, and maybe
the goal isn't to block it out,but it's to correct.
I mean, you hear about athletesall the time who use that as
(20:35):
fuel to do great things.
SPEAKER_03 (20:37):
Um you don't have to seek out you don't have to seek
out negativity.
You don't have to seek out theway.
No, no, no.
It'll always be around.
It'll come.
And people have more freedomright now to just say what
they're feeling and maybe hidebehind some comment that they
that they make online.
And and sometimes you have to totrain yourself and actually
(20:58):
practice shutting off thosevoices.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:01):
I think if we made the story too much of a
Hollywood ending, it would belike, yeah, that's not really
transformation.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:07):
Transformation costs you something, and at the same
time, it's worth it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:13):
And at the same time, it it just gives more
energy, I think, to the lovestory portion of this book.
And that it's not a romanticlove story, right, but a a story
of maybe true love, a self-lovestory.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
And that point in in the chapter, Nathan, is
important because for me, homeis about the opportunity to
express our gratitude andthankfulness for what happened
and the invitation forgenerosity to give it away.
Because what I love is that wesee the resilience of OC in the
(21:47):
midst of a negative narrative tobe able to hear someone, YC,
asking for help and for her toreal and for OC to realize I
have something to teach.
I have something that I can giveaway.
This is this experience isn'tfor me to hold.
This is an experience for me torelease and to help somebody
else out.
(22:07):
And that's really where thisturn in the chapter happens.
And I just love that reminder tous.
SPEAKER_03 (22:14):
And I I want to bring our attention to YC, young
crane.
Right.
Optimistic golden.
Yes, optimistic little brother,uh, the sibling that is with
you, the friend that is inspiredby you.
What I want to draw ourattention to is YC is even when
he wasn't playing because he wastoo little right away, he was
(22:37):
playing, and then throughoutthis whole last chapter, he's
not hidden away.
He is observing everything thatis happening.
He hears all the criticism, andthere's something compelling
enough about OC's dream thathe's like, I want that too.
Yeah.
Do you think I can do that too?
And it's that kind of eitherhopefulness or optimism that
(23:04):
that OC's like, well, you know,it's not everything is cracked
up to be, is really hard, andyou know, you you actually you
probably don't want to do this.
Right.
And instead of saying to, youknow, to fly is what we're
created to do.
And um, how do you encouragethose dreams and encourage
people to figure out who theyare and embrace that?
(23:25):
I wanna eat with us for it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
Talk about I'm trying, I'm trying.
I want to talk about mapsbecause that's kind of how this
ends.
And turtles crying.
I'm scanning it quick.
I can't I can't remember exactlywhy turtles crying or who points
out the maps, maybe it's YC.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
He's so proud.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Yeah, if I'm a map, I want to fly like OC, help me
figure it out.
Talk about maps again, becausethat's still probably the part
of this metaphor that I everytime we record this, I still
wrestle with.
Yeah, you're telling me I'm amap, I've got everything inside
of me that I need, yet there'smore, I think, to get there.
So talk about how this idea ofmap quote un you know, comes
(24:11):
home, so to speak, in this lastchapter of home and how that
should maybe inform us orinspire us or or whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Let me ask let me answer, we'll get to maps, but
let me answer the question aboutturtle, because I think it's
significant now, in particularin this love story and the
chapter on home.
Turtles quiet.
Turtle, we know most turtles areslow, unless it's a snapping
turtle swimming through thehead.
Sure.
(24:43):
Turtles are slow.
And to know turtle in thisstory, our turtle is the one
with the plan.
Our turtle is the one that isobserving and paying attention
to everything and bringing itforward and being that loyal
friend to OC.
Almost the partner that thatenables the dream to happen.
(25:05):
Uh, it's almost like Turtle hasthis front row seat to OC's
dream, and now he's seeing thewhole story unfold as she's come
back from her flight.
Because the whole, you know, thewhole playground saw OC up in
the air.
Now now she now she's back withthem.
And he's so quiet, I think,because and and I wrote it this
(25:28):
way because there was so muchemotion that sometimes surfaces
that we don't have language for.
And so sometimes people justhave to blurt out things and
they're saying a lot of things.
And and Turtle being planful, Ithink, was just waiting and and
not for dramatic pause, but toto really um find the right
(25:51):
words and wait for the rightmoment.
Now, when people are quiet, andthis is the trouble sometimes
with understanding and how howto lead introverts, is that
introverts give us less details,they give us less data points to
work with.
An extrovert will just say a lotof things and then you know
exactly how they're feeling.
So sometimes extroverts uh uminterpret silence as kind of
(26:15):
going along with somebody.
So I can't remember if it wasrabbit or fox, or like, oh yeah,
turtle agrees with me becausehe's being quiet.
And instead, then you start torealize, oh, there's there's
something there.
And I I have often I learnedthis from my mother.
I I learned that tears aresometimes an emotional release.
(26:39):
And there are some people thathave been given the gift of
tears and this opportunity justto let go some of the emotions.
And so, as these emotions arecoming, all of a sudden Turtle
gives language to O.C.
and encourages her uh with aquestion of what was what was it
(26:59):
like?
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yeah.
The tears with Turtle for me, itreminds me of that moment of
those proud tears you have as aparent.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
When you're watching your child do something for the
first time or succeed.
I remember one of the firsttimes that Camila dove to the
bottom of the pool to retrievesomething from the deep end of
the pool.
I had I had tears in my eyes inmy goggles as I was watching
her.
But that's kind of what I'm howI in interpret this moment.
Because when Linda wrote that,to me, there was this immediate,
(27:29):
like it's that sense of pridebecause there's a bunch of
pressure and timing that goesinto the unfolding and the
execution of the plan that thatTurtle had.
And I know that there are peoplein our lives who watch from the
sidelines, they know that theyplayed an integral part in our
our our epic flights of life,and there's just that that sense
(27:50):
of pride.
And I think that the crescendoof that emotion happens when the
conversation is around YC andOC, realizing that there's this
map that that's in both of them,and Turtle cries again.
And I think that there's thissense of, and that's the whole
point type of tears.
Yeah, like and I'm I'm I'm gladthat everyone saw that because
(28:11):
Turtle was a critical part inthe unfolding and the first
moment in the book where we seethe map in full.
SPEAKER_03 (28:19):
Which gets to the to your other question, Nathan,
about the map.
Like what then why are the mapsso significant?
Why are they so important?
And Turtle, the other animalshad learned that they were also
made of maps.
And so that's still kind of aquestion mark that that we can
(28:41):
trace through through the entirestory.
The the question that Turtleasked when when Turtle wanted to
know, like, well, what did yousee up there?
What happens is OC startstalking about what she saw from
over ahead, and it's theconnection back to like, yes,
(29:02):
oh, you saw your map.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
Yeah.
And that's why I think um it wasso important to bring map back
into the center stage, if youwill, in this last chapter,
because in the process of theplaying and the the trying and
the flying, we're learning moreabout the composition of who we
are, our talent and ourpotential.
And that is the discovery of newthings on our map.
(29:29):
I also know when we watch peoplewho are going through that
process, we're also askingourselves, do I have that in me?
Like, do I have that kind oftalent and potential?
And we kind of like do thisreflection ourselves.
So when we have this parallelexperience of why see coming
back in a new shape, there arenew parts for map that are seen.
And why see recognizing this newshape and wondering to himself,
(29:52):
is that part of me too?
That's part of what happens whenwe fly and when we return home.
Is that the return home?
Is a demonstration that it'sokay to try out new examples of
how our talent and our potentialcan show up because that will
inspire other people to do someof that same reflection and
(30:13):
imagination of what they couldpotentially do, which is
essentially a discovery of theown tapestry texturization of
their own map.
SPEAKER_03 (30:23):
Obviously, map is a metaphor.
Right.
Yes, map is a representation anda resource.
It is also a metaphor.
And sometimes questions aboutour own lived experience allow
us to understand even what we'relooking for at our map.
Sometimes our maps feel socrumpled and creased that you
(30:46):
can't even remember what'sthere.
The words feel smudged out.
You can't you can't understand.
And sometimes the recounting ofour own stories give ourselves
encouragement of, yep, that wasa part of me.
Yep, I haven't lost that.
Yep, it's tucked away right now,but maybe it's going to be on
display.
I've learned some things thatmaybe don't have a direct
(31:09):
correlation to how I could uh tomy expertise or what what I need
to do right now.
But they are I can you knowconfigure something in order to
get a little bit further.
SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
You know, I I interviewed Deb, Deb Dixon, our
Jedi master on our team.
Um you guys know, I'm sure youknew this.
Uh her degree is in a like shewas a home ec teacher.
SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Before she went on to be the CISO and CIO for all
these giant companies.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
And that I wish I would have connected this when I
interviewed her, but the justthat idea of like you're not
limited just because you youthink that your map may tell you
you can only go one direction.
And you know, I I recently readuh the Fred Rogers, Mr.
Rogers biography, and I didn'trealize this, but there's a lot
(32:03):
of criticism about him, and he'stoo soft and whatever.
But his whole message wasessentially I like you for you,
and I hope you like you for whoyou are too, which is
essentially comes down to likethis map.
This is who you are.
Embrace it, don't let it limityou, don't let it say, oh well,
whatever.
And so I I I think that man, toto our earlier point about
(32:27):
there's gonna be so much so manypeople in the world and so much
uh opportunity to get to getjust beat down.
Let's understand that, but alsosay, you know, this is who we
are, don't let it limit us, andkind of seek out those more
positive voices that are, youknow, hopefully coming from
(32:51):
within, but also externally justsaying, like, fly, sore,
whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
So there's something I want to say, which I think is
gonna fit in here somewhere,Nathan.
I don't know where it is.
Um, and it's this um it's thisidea that just bec that when OC
experienced flight, she didn'tfly away, she flew back home.
Oh and so this is why thischapter is so important to me
(33:17):
too, because I've met so manypeople in my career who once
they experience flight, theybelieve that they're supposed to
land somewhere else to continuethat.
Yeah.
You two know me.
Like I I I have a uh you know acr a case of wanderlust.
Like I was think that there'ssomething and somewhere.
(33:38):
And what's in I didn't know whatthe word was.
Whatever an addiction to a yeah,well, there's something stop,
stop, stop.
You're all you're all breakingup my gits in my ears.
Because I'm thinking of a youknow, there's a there are a
couple wouldn't be true.
(33:59):
There are several instances, andthis is gonna be a a bit of
self-reflection.
There have been so manyinstances throughout my career
when I experienced flight, andalmost immediately after I felt
like I had to leave where I wasand to go pursue this somewhere
else.
And if I would have done that, Iwould have lost so many
relationships and so manylessons to learn from being home
(34:20):
again.
And I just think that there'ssomething about the euphoria
that comes when we experiencesomething like flight that we
think we can't go back to wherewe came from because we might
lose the ability to fly again.
And I think it's the returninghome that gives us the chance to
really fly again, not only togive it away to somebody else,
(34:42):
and this isn't in the book, butit's also a place where we have
an opportunity for rest,restoration, and rejuvenation.
And that's also so important, Ithink, in our life's journey is
that when we think of flight andwe think of airplanes, airplanes
aren't meant to be in the skyall the time.
(35:04):
And going from airport hub toairport hub, hangers are made
for a reason.
And part of returning to home isto be in a place where we can
rest and be restored so that wehave the fitness or the ability
or the wellness to then continueto give more, to serve more, and
(35:25):
to fly again.
SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
And flyers need people at home.
And the characters that helpedOC the characters that helped OC
with flight, they wanted to reapthe benefits as well, even the
harsh voices.
And so if you think of home,think of the places where you
(35:48):
feel most at peace, where youfeel like yourself, and the
places where you have grown,where you need to reintroduce
yourself to another, where youknow, kids that college kids
that go off to college, theycome home from university, and
the parents are like, I do notknow who this person is that has
(36:10):
come back into my home, andthere's a reintroduction, and
it's this opportunity.
Well, tell me tell me about yourfriends, tell me who you've met.
And interesting.
Yeah, so we get we can take thisin many different areas.
Maybe maybe we should do anotherone on this.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Anyway, I would I wouldn't really cover any of my
notes.
I know.
I know, or mine.
I mean, I'm just jumping around.
Nathan, has this chapter hit youmore than the others, or is it
just where you're at today?
Because you seem more like init.
SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
Well, it's uh let me read something.
Okay, and then I think that mayhelp answer.
Uh I was working on kind of asummary.
I won't read all of it.
Uh to learn to fly is to learnto love, right?
We established that in chapteron page 62.
Uh that reminds us that realgrowth includes loving ourselves
(37:02):
even when others don'tunderstand us yet.
Coming home means integratingwho we've become with where we
came from without shrinking backto fit old expectations.
In the end, OC discovers she wasmade of a map.
Everything she needed to soarwas already inside her.
So to for leaders for everybody,our direction, courage, and
(37:23):
wisdom come from within.
And like what hit me, or toanswer your question more, is
just this idea, um, especiallyjust because some conversation
I've been having with my kidslately, is this idea of like
we're not these static set, youknow, this this is who I am,
(37:45):
this is who I'm always gonna be,I'm never gonna change.
But when people have theseexpectations of us, uh I wonder
sometimes if we preventourselves from changing, from
flying, because we're like,well, I don't want to disappoint
this person, or I don't, youknow, have the flexibility or
whatever.
And so I guess that idea ofcourage, that idea of what you
(38:08):
said is so interesting, Brian,about people feel like once they
learn to fly, they can't comehome.
It's like, no, I can still flyand still land right back at my
same address.
And now it's just like, hey, I'mI'm different.
I've got these skills, I've gotwhatever.
And too often I think we havethis this broken record in our
head that just keeps goingaround and around and saying,
Nope, this is who you are, nope,this is what you do, nope, this
(38:30):
is how you react in thesecircumstances, in these
situations, and and it's notthat.
And I think, you know, themetaphor, you know, was neatly
wrapped up in 68 pages, I think.
Um transformation may take alittle bit longer than that.
But also, I think, you know,this could be a series of a
(38:50):
thousand books where there'sthis little transformation, then
this little transformation, andthen this little transformation.
It's not just one big boom, bam,we're done.
It's like one degree here andone degree there and one degree
there.
And you know, I'm 46, almost 47,and I was talking to my kids
about something the other day,and like I still don't feel like
a grown-up.
I still don't feel like I stilloften look to like who is the
(39:15):
grown-up in the room that knowswhat they're doing, and I don't
think anybody does.
Or we're all just at differentplaces.
So I don't know, that that's alittle bit of a rambling, but it
it that that thing on love was,I think I don't know, hit me
more than I think other thingsin this book because it's like,
so you've done the thing, you'recoming back, but now shouldn't
(39:38):
you have already overcome all ofthose criticisms and doubt and
everything?
But no, you can still do thething and come back, and
everyone's like, What?
Come on, no way.
SPEAKER_03 (39:48):
Then you go back to the dream and then you play some
more, and then you can try somemore.
It's a constant you discovermore about your map.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
And you that's right.
That's right.
People who work with you pushyou to the higher platform.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Yes, exactly.
And then what's next?
And what's now, and what's this,and what's that?
And I mean, the constant ischange, like nothing is
permanent, everything goes incycles and changes, and so how
do you both remain true, yourmap, but also become this new,
different quote unquote better,better version?
(40:21):
So uh I have a reflectionquestion that maybe we can just
leave it and maybe I'll cue themusic here and leave it, or if
you have a reflection on thereflection.
When you return to familiarplaces changed by growth, how
can you stay grounded inself-love instead of self-doubt?
(40:44):
I don't got an answer for that,but either of you have an
answer?
No.
This would be the million-dollartakeaway.
Because that is it.
SPEAKER_03 (40:52):
And that answer could change every day.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Yeah.
Well, as I wrote that and wasthinking about it, I think it's
also coming back to chapter two,constantly, play.
Like it's like, oh, I amdoubting myself.
Well, I'm just I'm still kind ofplaying.
I'm still kind of trying.
Like, yes, I flew, but now wewant to fly a little bit
further, and so let's play alittle bit more.
(41:15):
And like it's always I don'tknow.
Life is a constantexperimentation, maybe.
Like it's a constant process oftrying and failing and getting
back up.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
So and home becomes the next launch pad.
SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture
and personal transformation.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our other
episodes, we would appreciate itif you would follow us on the
socials, subscribe to us onYouTube and wherever you get
your podcast.
Click the link in the show notesto order your copy of Unfolded
(41:56):
Lessons in Transformation froman origami crane.
You can click the link in theshow notes to learn more about
what leadership vision does andhelping your team work through
all of these very important andpowerful topics.
I'm fumbling over my words, butmy name is Nathan Freeberg.
SPEAKER_03 (42:11):
And my name is Linda Schubring.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
And my name is and always will be Brian Schubring.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
All right.
And part of returning to home is to be in a
place where we can rest and berestored so that we have the
fitness or the ability or thewellness to then continue to
give more, to serve more, and tofly again.
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
And flyers need people at home.
And the characters that helpedOC with flight, they wanted to
reap the benefits as well.
Even the harsh voices.
And so if you think of home,think of the places where you
feel most at peace, where youfeel like yourself, and the
(00:38):
places where you have grown,where you need to reintroduce
yourself to another.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has spentthe past 25 years doing this
work so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show notes
or visit us on the web atLeadership Vision
Consulting.com.
Hello, everyone.
(01:09):
My name is Nathan Freeberg, andtoday on the podcast, we are
continuing on our conversationwith Dr.
Linda and Brian Schuberg as weunfold the next chapter of their
book, Unfolded Lessons andTransformation from an Origami
Crane.
This is the fifth chapter titledHome, where O.C.
the origami crane returns fromher adventure of flight,
(01:31):
changed, exhilarated, and unsureof how her transformation will
be received.
Now, some of her friends theycelebrate her courage, but
others question her choices, andstill others, well, they feel a
little bit left behind.
Now, this chapter invites us toreflect on what happens when we
come home differently, whenwe've grown, when we've
(01:51):
stretched and taken flight.
But the world around us maybehasn't changed as we have.
It's about learning to loveourselves through all the
voices, internal and external,that question who or what we've
become.
Now, at its heart, home remindsus that the journey of
transformation doesn't end whenwe land.
In many ways, that's when thereal work of integration begins.
(02:14):
This is the Leadership VisionPodcast.
Enjoy.
Brian and Linda, first I justwant to say welcome home to you
as you have come home toMinneapolis from uh your work
with clients abroad.
SPEAKER_04 (02:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:31):
Um there's a link in the show notes to we did a
podcast summarizing that.
Are you integrated at home?
Do you feel like the jet lag hasworn off?
Are you home and happy?
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
We're home.
Yesterday was our fourth day inthe States, and yesterday was my
declared no-nap day.
Ah, how'd that go?
It went great.
Okay.
I made it all the way through.
I had one moment.
Yep, until the Vikings gamestarted and I fell asleep.
Anyway, okay.
So I made it to 7 15.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Well, good job.
Congratulations.
Linda.
Yes.
Linda sounds like you have alittle bit of a European cold,
I'm brought up.
A little bit of a European cold.
SPEAKER_03 (03:11):
Yes, the souvenir that no one wants.
SPEAKER_02 (03:13):
Exactly.
So, Brian, Linda, before we jumpinto this, I just want you to
set up this chapter, maybe put alittle frame.
It's the fifth chapter.
It's kind of the end of theallegory.
How does this sort of fall inwith the rest of the story?
Maybe just briefly summarize andtell us about it, and then we're
gonna dive into something I havehighlighted here on page 62.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Well, for me, home is perhaps the most meaningful
of the chapters.
Um, even though I have afavorite chapter, it's not home,
but this is the most meaningfulchapter of the book.
Home for me is so symbolic ofmany, many things for me as a
person and as a professional.
And there are many layers thatare embedded in just this one
(03:59):
chapter about the importance ofhome.
I feel that people are alwayslooking for the feelings that
are attached to home.
Uh, people want to feel safe andsecure somewhere, and sometimes
we know where that is when wethink of a physical place, but
for me, home is symbolic of atrue returning to our authentic
(04:23):
self.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
And in the context of the book, you know, the first
chapter being dream, secondchapter being play, third
chapter try, fourth chapter,fly, fifth chapter home.
And it is a coming home, it isdefining and describing home in
new ways, and it's when O.C.
(04:47):
has her soft landing back in theplayground.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah, that's another thing I will maybe get there.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Uh the first line.
OC returned to the park in asoft landing between the
branches of the cottonwoodtrees.
I don't know that home is alwaysa soft landing, is it?
Like, what's the significance ofthat?
It it feels like it's a softlanding, but then it quickly
gets pretty rough for her.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
Yes.
Yes.
And I think that's why we saidthat at first.
Once again, every word waschosen in particular for for
this allegory.
And and we just wanted to saythat with all the the bumps and
bruises that she has had in herattempt to fly when she came
(05:32):
back home, that it was a that itwas a soft landing.
And it just warms you up alittle bit to what's gonna
actually happen.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
And I want to make sure that that first line of
this chapter set the tone andset the mood for the theme of
the chapter.
And that soft landing is in mymind the welcome that happens
when we do return home.
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (05:56):
I will get to what definition of home is, but we'll
be able to do that.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
That's that's we're gonna get there.
The uh side note, the most Lindasentence in this whole book, I
think, comes from this chapter.
Which one is that?
Do you know what I'm gonna say?
No.
Stop whispering, jokers.
Fucking that is Linda.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
I remember Nathan when Linda wrote that line,
because we were in PuertoVallarta, and she came um to the
pool where I was waiting forsome of the edits that that she
was making, and she came backwith that edit, and she did not
tell me it was coming.
And so I'm so once you read it,I just burst out laughing, like,
yes, absolutely yes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Well, and uh in truth, truth be told, it is an
Easter egg for my friend Kevin,um who I went to grad school
with at Ball State University,and he would call people crazy
jokers.
And it was just something that Ihave taken with me over almost
30 years.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
When we took that group of students to Montana in
like 2008 or whatever, Iremember you said that a lot.
And so this is uh this is mythird time through.
I think I must have missed itthe first two times because I
like like you, Brian, I waslike, ha, like visibly outlined.
I want to um go back to page 62here.
Okay.
Okay, because I uh, you know, insome ways, when you read a book,
(07:16):
you're like, I I really want toask the authors about this.
There's there's a lot to unpack,and maybe this is not as
significant as I feel like itis, but let's let's see what
happens.
Okay, so put top of page 62.
Owl uh listened.
So OC is kind of talking, how'dit go?
What happened?
Da-da-da.
And so Owl offers this.
Remember to learn to fly is tolearn to love, to love and
(07:37):
accept yourself for who you are,to love in the shadows beneath
the trees, to love yourself inthe light of the clear blue
skies, to love yourself withthose who doubt and criticize
you, and to love yourself amongthose who love you most.
Keep flying and don't forget toland and love.
Each one of those sentences itfeels like could be a separate
(08:00):
book.
Ta just talk to me about this.
I I have so many questions, butI I want to just sort of like
just talk to me about thischapter because or this this
paragraph in this chapterbecause it it seems like it's
the whole point that learning tofly, so basically the whole
first five chapters to get tothat point is learning to love.
(08:23):
And so loving all thesedifferent things.
So unpack that.
Help help me under help us, thelisteners, understand this
paragraph and if it's assignificant as I feel like it
is.
It is.
(08:49):
For those of you not watching,Brian is kind of crying.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
He's a bit for Clemson.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Um I was writing this chapter, there was a moment
where I started writing ameditation, and the meditation
was reflective of my own journeyand my own journey home.
And I chose to not write this asa meditation.
I chose to put the meditation inthe voice of Owl.
(09:16):
Because that first line,remember to learn to fly is to
learn to love, to love andaccept yourself for who you are.
Those two sentences encapsulatethe last three years of my
journey of self-compassion andbeing guided by a coach helping
me to understand who I am.
(09:36):
To know Brian is to know someonewho dreams, to know Brian is to
know someone who does whatever Ican to be the best I can at
flight.
And so, like, how do I take adream and make it a reality?
And I've done that for decades,trying to build or grow or do or
achieve something, which in mymind is flight, without a true
sense of self-acceptance andself-love.
(09:58):
And one of the first things thatmy self-compassion and
mindfulness coach uh started toteach me was to love who I am.
And what I've learned is thattrue flight begins with loving
yourself because love setsthings free.
And when we love ourselves, welove our identity just as I am,
(10:22):
as I am, right here, right now,that expression of self-love
that is the true beginning offlight.
And so this paragraph is inessence layers of my
self-compassion, mindfulness,and self-acceptance journey of
the last three years as toldthrough the voice of Owl.
(10:42):
Who is Owl then?
SPEAKER_02 (10:45):
Is that your coach?
Is that No, it's Owl.
I know, but I I'm uh like Owl istelling this to OC, right?
You learn to tell yourself thesethings through this coach and
through other people helpingyou.
So is there a not that there's aone-to-one correlation between
(11:07):
all the characters and people inyour life, but who what would
be, I guess, maybe the messageto readers and listeners of you
know, remember to learn to flyis to learn to love, to love
yourself.
Like who can the all be in ourown lives?
Is that ourselves?
Like what like you know, do youknow see I'm asking here?
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Kind of welcome to the allegory.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah, I know.
That's why I say allegory, yeah.
Um at least it's not in a cave.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
That'd be really it can this voice can come from a
person, people, places,experiences.
I wouldn't want to try to limitit to just one thing.
Yeah, however, the reminder forme is in that last sentence, and
that that last sentence, andthis is truly what I've learned
through Amy, and that is oh oh,by the way, Brian, keep flying.
(11:55):
Yeah, like she's not saying thatthere is any judgment in in the
desire to do or to accomplish oror to achieve, but remember that
there's always a place to landand to love, and and and that is
to remember that there is agrounding and an anchoring and a
centering for you where you canremind yourself of the love you
(12:18):
have for yourself, and mostimportantly, or one of the
important parts of this book andfor this chapter is then how to
give that away.
Like, how is it that you cancreate places and spaces for
others to not feel shame orcriticism for dreaming or
flying?
And to then reflect on thatself-love and what that truly
(12:40):
means, and how we can teach andgive that away to other people.
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
Nathan, I appreciate that you've called out this
paragraph, and Brian, it's goodto hear the origins once again.
I think this paragraph is areminder to the reader, maybe
not little kids, but uh maybe anol older, more mature uh reader
that this book is actually alove story.
(13:06):
And it's a love story invitingpeople to love themselves.
And the way that we approach itisn't starting with like, well,
I'm good enough and I'm smartenough.
Instead, I I have dreams, eventhough they may look different.
I I have this opportunity toplay and tinker.
(13:26):
I've I've tried many things,I've even taken flight, and at
the end, can you embrace thelove not for the world or for
the place, um, but actually forthe person, and that is you.
And can you accept theinvitation to love yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
I remember a conversation that Linda and I
had early, early, early.
I mean, even before manuscriptone, and I was talking to Linda
about the things that this bookis going to be, and love story
was the first one.
This is gonna be a love story,and at that point, it was me.
I'm trying to set this up as.
And when Linda and I startedworking together, we knew that
(14:08):
Unfolded is a love story beingtold through an allegory taking
place in a playground involvingseveral characters.
It is a love story.
Um, it is a love story aboutO.C.
loving herself.
It is a story about Owldemonstrating love.
It's a story about YC's love forlike sibling with sibling, and
(14:33):
it's a story about how Turtledemonstrates love.
It's a demonstration of lovethroughout the entire story.
Strickly love and thequestionable love from and how
edges in relationships help uslove those that may seem
unlovable.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
So if I want to pick it up there, if we if we could
take out the rest of page 62,63, most of 64, and the top part
of 65.
I don't know I don't know ifyou're able to see this, but I
kind of marked Did you cut out?
I I marked well, I marked withuh your yellow highlighter D's
(15:11):
that were like doubts, and Imarked with C's um
confirmations.
I forget my name thingcriticism.
No, there it was positive.
Basically, I marked negativethings and positive things.
So we have this beautiful thingabout loving and and flying and
don't forget to land in love,and YC after that, YC's like,
yeah, I knew you could do it.
(15:31):
And then we got Fox and Rabbit,who are basically like I'm gonna
each time they one, you suck,two, you sucks, three, you suck,
four, you suck, five, now you'reruined, six, don't ever do that
again.
Uh seven, looks like you'restuck like that.
Eight, just accept who you are,stop doing it.
(15:52):
Then YC's like, I don't know.
And then nine is the stopwhispering, well, stop
whispering jokers, uh you suck.
So you metaphorically andliterally come crashing down to
reality of like, love yourself.
You're awesome, you did thisthing, and then nine negative
comments telling you you suck,you shouldn't do that.
(16:15):
How do we as humans balance?
Uh in the introduction, I saidsomething about like uh learning
to love yourself through all ofthose internal and external
voices.
How do we not let those externalyou suck voices just penetrate
and be like, yeah, yeah, Ishouldn't have done that?
Look at all these people thatare supposedly my friends.
(16:36):
So talk me through that a littlebit because a bit of a bummer,
guys, before we go back up intogo.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
Right.
Well, the f so it goes back tosoft landing.
So we started with the softlanding, and then you're
pointing out all these toughthings once again.
And I think in the moments oflike I'm gonna land and
everything's gonna be different,and I can't wait to share my
story, and I'm just so in love,and then like no, you're not,
(17:07):
no, you know, and all the allthe negative, all the negative
messages, and I think it almostpoints to I don't know if we did
this on purpose, but it pointsto like it's worth it.
Like it's um that the that thechallenge is worth it.
If it was just easy to love, umthe whole world would get along.
And when I think about some ofthe polarities and the extremes
(17:32):
that we are invited to live inright now, it's the ones that
like I'm willing, I'm willing tofight for this, or I'm willing
to uh this is meaningful.
And sometimes those harsh voiceskind of help you think about
what you actually care about andwhat you're willing to give your
life to, and it informs you whoyou are and who you're not.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
And we really wanted to capture what actually happens
after people take risk and havea quote unquote successful risk.
SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
Totally.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Um, oftentimes when that happens, we create that
standout moment when we're inflow, when things are going
right.
We feel great.
And that's oftentimes the placeand time when people become
really critical because of maybethey feel like they're missing
out or they didn't take the riskwith you, or they're trying to
remind you of who you quotereally are.
And that that real lifeexperience, I think many people
(18:27):
feel that there's like oncepeople return from their flight,
they feel this metaphoriccollision of emotions that
happen when they land.
And one of the things that comesto my mind when I read that
section is you know, of the nineor or or ten negative statements
that you named, Nathan, they'rethere in repetition because I
(18:52):
believe that whenever theexternal voices are being heard
by us after our flight, we havetwo or three rebound negative
voices within our own mind.
And the overwhelming nature ofthat negative narrative, that's
real.
There's a friend of mine on myon my my swim team when I asked
her what she felt about the thebook.
(19:15):
She talked about this section,and what she said to me, Nathan,
was by that point in the book, Iwas just so tired of Fox.
Like I just I just wanted him tojust go away.
And then she said this, butthat's kind of how my dialogue
goes too.
Uh-huh.
And so this connection to welearn to live with our emotions,
(19:35):
whether our emotions are youknow experienced as positive or
negative.
What we wanted to be able toconvey was in the midst of
flight and joy and happiness, westill had to learn, or the
invitation is still to learn tolive with our emotions and the
emotions we're receiving fromothers.
SPEAKER_02 (19:52):
Yeah.
Well, and it's interesting.
I was just scanning this againand and remembering there was of
those nine or ten things, therewas one internal doubt from OC.
And then YC, if you remember, islike this is kind of the
positive thing amongst all ofthat.
Um sometimes your dreams affectyour friends, and lice and YC is
(20:15):
like, yeah, like me.
And then Rabbit is like, no,don't pay attention to OC.
They're ruining your like thepumping your head full of all of
this gibberish.
And you know, sometimes it canbe so hard to well, and maybe
the goal isn't to block it out,but it's to correct.
I mean, you hear about athletesall the time who use that as
(20:35):
fuel to do great things.
SPEAKER_03 (20:37):
Um you don't have to seek out you don't have to seek
out negativity.
You don't have to seek out theway.
No, no, no.
It'll always be around.
It'll come.
And people have more freedomright now to just say what
they're feeling and maybe hidebehind some comment that they
that they make online.
And and sometimes you have to totrain yourself and actually
(20:58):
practice shutting off thosevoices.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:01):
I think if we made the story too much of a
Hollywood ending, it would belike, yeah, that's not really
transformation.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:07):
Transformation costs you something, and at the same
time, it's worth it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:13):
And at the same time, it it just gives more
energy, I think, to the lovestory portion of this book.
And that it's not a romanticlove story, right, but a a story
of maybe true love, a self-lovestory.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
And that point in in the chapter, Nathan, is
important because for me, homeis about the opportunity to
express our gratitude andthankfulness for what happened
and the invitation forgenerosity to give it away.
Because what I love is that wesee the resilience of OC in the
(21:47):
midst of a negative narrative tobe able to hear someone, YC,
asking for help and for her toreal and for OC to realize I
have something to teach.
I have something that I can giveaway.
This is this experience isn'tfor me to hold.
This is an experience for me torelease and to help somebody
else out.
(22:07):
And that's really where thisturn in the chapter happens.
And I just love that reminder tous.
SPEAKER_03 (22:14):
And I I want to bring our attention to YC, young
crane.
Right.
Optimistic golden.
Yes, optimistic little brother,uh, the sibling that is with
you, the friend that is inspiredby you.
What I want to draw ourattention to is YC is even when
he wasn't playing because he wastoo little right away, he was
(22:37):
playing, and then throughoutthis whole last chapter, he's
not hidden away.
He is observing everything thatis happening.
He hears all the criticism, andthere's something compelling
enough about OC's dream thathe's like, I want that too.
Yeah.
Do you think I can do that too?
And it's that kind of eitherhopefulness or optimism that
(23:04):
that OC's like, well, you know,it's not everything is cracked
up to be, is really hard, andyou know, you you actually you
probably don't want to do this.
Right.
And instead of saying to, youknow, to fly is what we're
created to do.
And um, how do you encouragethose dreams and encourage
people to figure out who theyare and embrace that?
(23:25):
I wanna eat with us for it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
Talk about I'm trying, I'm trying.
I want to talk about mapsbecause that's kind of how this
ends.
And turtles crying.
I'm scanning it quick.
I can't I can't remember exactlywhy turtles crying or who points
out the maps, maybe it's YC.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
He's so proud.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Yeah, if I'm a map, I want to fly like OC, help me
figure it out.
Talk about maps again, becausethat's still probably the part
of this metaphor that I everytime we record this, I still
wrestle with.
Yeah, you're telling me I'm amap, I've got everything inside
of me that I need, yet there'smore, I think, to get there.
So talk about how this idea ofmap quote un you know, comes
(24:11):
home, so to speak, in this lastchapter of home and how that
should maybe inform us orinspire us or or whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Let me ask let me answer, we'll get to maps, but
let me answer the question aboutturtle, because I think it's
significant now, in particularin this love story and the
chapter on home.
Turtles quiet.
Turtle, we know most turtles areslow, unless it's a snapping
turtle swimming through thehead.
Sure.
(24:43):
Turtles are slow.
And to know turtle in thisstory, our turtle is the one
with the plan.
Our turtle is the one that isobserving and paying attention
to everything and bringing itforward and being that loyal
friend to OC.
Almost the partner that thatenables the dream to happen.
(25:05):
Uh, it's almost like Turtle hasthis front row seat to OC's
dream, and now he's seeing thewhole story unfold as she's come
back from her flight.
Because the whole, you know, thewhole playground saw OC up in
the air.
Now now she now she's back withthem.
And he's so quiet, I think,because and and I wrote it this
(25:28):
way because there was so muchemotion that sometimes surfaces
that we don't have language for.
And so sometimes people justhave to blurt out things and
they're saying a lot of things.
And and Turtle being planful, Ithink, was just waiting and and
not for dramatic pause, but toto really um find the right
(25:51):
words and wait for the rightmoment.
Now, when people are quiet, andthis is the trouble sometimes
with understanding and how howto lead introverts, is that
introverts give us less details,they give us less data points to
work with.
An extrovert will just say a lotof things and then you know
exactly how they're feeling.
So sometimes extroverts uh uminterpret silence as kind of
(26:15):
going along with somebody.
So I can't remember if it wasrabbit or fox, or like, oh yeah,
turtle agrees with me becausehe's being quiet.
And instead, then you start torealize, oh, there's there's
something there.
And I I have often I learnedthis from my mother.
I I learned that tears aresometimes an emotional release.
(26:39):
And there are some people thathave been given the gift of
tears and this opportunity justto let go some of the emotions.
And so, as these emotions arecoming, all of a sudden Turtle
gives language to O.C.
and encourages her uh with aquestion of what was what was it
(26:59):
like?
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yeah.
The tears with Turtle for me, itreminds me of that moment of
those proud tears you have as aparent.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
When you're watching your child do something for the
first time or succeed.
I remember one of the firsttimes that Camila dove to the
bottom of the pool to retrievesomething from the deep end of
the pool.
I had I had tears in my eyes inmy goggles as I was watching
her.
But that's kind of what I'm howI in interpret this moment.
Because when Linda wrote that,to me, there was this immediate,
(27:29):
like it's that sense of pridebecause there's a bunch of
pressure and timing that goesinto the unfolding and the
execution of the plan that thatTurtle had.
And I know that there are peoplein our lives who watch from the
sidelines, they know that theyplayed an integral part in our
our our epic flights of life,and there's just that that sense
(27:50):
of pride.
And I think that the crescendoof that emotion happens when the
conversation is around YC andOC, realizing that there's this
map that that's in both of them,and Turtle cries again.
And I think that there's thissense of, and that's the whole
point type of tears.
Yeah, like and I'm I'm I'm gladthat everyone saw that because
(28:11):
Turtle was a critical part inthe unfolding and the first
moment in the book where we seethe map in full.
SPEAKER_03 (28:19):
Which gets to the to your other question, Nathan,
about the map.
Like what then why are the mapsso significant?
Why are they so important?
And Turtle, the other animalshad learned that they were also
made of maps.
And so that's still kind of aquestion mark that that we can
(28:41):
trace through through the entirestory.
The the question that Turtleasked when when Turtle wanted to
know, like, well, what did yousee up there?
What happens is OC startstalking about what she saw from
over ahead, and it's theconnection back to like, yes,
(29:02):
oh, you saw your map.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
Yeah.
And that's why I think um it wasso important to bring map back
into the center stage, if youwill, in this last chapter,
because in the process of theplaying and the the trying and
the flying, we're learning moreabout the composition of who we
are, our talent and ourpotential.
And that is the discovery of newthings on our map.
(29:29):
I also know when we watch peoplewho are going through that
process, we're also askingourselves, do I have that in me?
Like, do I have that kind oftalent and potential?
And we kind of like do thisreflection ourselves.
So when we have this parallelexperience of why see coming
back in a new shape, there arenew parts for map that are seen.
And why see recognizing this newshape and wondering to himself,
(29:52):
is that part of me too?
That's part of what happens whenwe fly and when we return home.
Is that the return home?
Is a demonstration that it'sokay to try out new examples of
how our talent and our potentialcan show up because that will
inspire other people to do someof that same reflection and
(30:13):
imagination of what they couldpotentially do, which is
essentially a discovery of theown tapestry texturization of
their own map.
SPEAKER_03 (30:23):
Obviously, map is a metaphor.
Right.
Yes, map is a representation anda resource.
It is also a metaphor.
And sometimes questions aboutour own lived experience allow
us to understand even what we'relooking for at our map.
Sometimes our maps feel socrumpled and creased that you
(30:46):
can't even remember what'sthere.
The words feel smudged out.
You can't you can't understand.
And sometimes the recounting ofour own stories give ourselves
encouragement of, yep, that wasa part of me.
Yep, I haven't lost that.
Yep, it's tucked away right now,but maybe it's going to be on
display.
I've learned some things thatmaybe don't have a direct
(31:09):
correlation to how I could uh tomy expertise or what what I need
to do right now.
But they are I can you knowconfigure something in order to
get a little bit further.
SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
You know, I I interviewed Deb, Deb Dixon, our
Jedi master on our team.
Um you guys know, I'm sure youknew this.
Uh her degree is in a like shewas a home ec teacher.
SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Before she went on to be the CISO and CIO for all
these giant companies.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
And that I wish I would have connected this when I
interviewed her, but the justthat idea of like you're not
limited just because you youthink that your map may tell you
you can only go one direction.
And you know, I I recently readuh the Fred Rogers, Mr.
Rogers biography, and I didn'trealize this, but there's a lot
(32:03):
of criticism about him, and he'stoo soft and whatever.
But his whole message wasessentially I like you for you,
and I hope you like you for whoyou are too, which is
essentially comes down to likethis map.
This is who you are.
Embrace it, don't let it limityou, don't let it say, oh well,
whatever.
And so I I I think that man, toto our earlier point about
(32:27):
there's gonna be so much so manypeople in the world and so much
uh opportunity to get to getjust beat down.
Let's understand that, but alsosay, you know, this is who we
are, don't let it limit us, andkind of seek out those more
positive voices that are, youknow, hopefully coming from
(32:51):
within, but also externally justsaying, like, fly, sore,
whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
So there's something I want to say, which I think is
gonna fit in here somewhere,Nathan.
I don't know where it is.
Um, and it's this um it's thisidea that just bec that when OC
experienced flight, she didn'tfly away, she flew back home.
Oh and so this is why thischapter is so important to me
(33:17):
too, because I've met so manypeople in my career who once
they experience flight, theybelieve that they're supposed to
land somewhere else to continuethat.
Yeah.
You two know me.
Like I I I have a uh you know acr a case of wanderlust.
Like I was think that there'ssomething and somewhere.
(33:38):
And what's in I didn't know whatthe word was.
Whatever an addiction to a yeah,well, there's something stop,
stop, stop.
You're all you're all breakingup my gits in my ears.
Because I'm thinking of a youknow, there's a there are a
couple wouldn't be true.
(33:59):
There are several instances, andthis is gonna be a a bit of
self-reflection.
There have been so manyinstances throughout my career
when I experienced flight, andalmost immediately after I felt
like I had to leave where I wasand to go pursue this somewhere
else.
And if I would have done that, Iwould have lost so many
relationships and so manylessons to learn from being home
(34:20):
again.
And I just think that there'ssomething about the euphoria
that comes when we experiencesomething like flight that we
think we can't go back to wherewe came from because we might
lose the ability to fly again.
And I think it's the returninghome that gives us the chance to
really fly again, not only togive it away to somebody else,
(34:42):
and this isn't in the book, butit's also a place where we have
an opportunity for rest,restoration, and rejuvenation.
And that's also so important, Ithink, in our life's journey is
that when we think of flight andwe think of airplanes, airplanes
aren't meant to be in the skyall the time.
(35:04):
And going from airport hub toairport hub, hangers are made
for a reason.
And part of returning to home isto be in a place where we can
rest and be restored so that wehave the fitness or the ability
or the wellness to then continueto give more, to serve more, and
(35:25):
to fly again.
SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
And flyers need people at home.
And the characters that helpedOC the characters that helped OC
with flight, they wanted to reapthe benefits as well, even the
harsh voices.
And so if you think of home,think of the places where you
(35:48):
feel most at peace, where youfeel like yourself, and the
places where you have grown,where you need to reintroduce
yourself to another, where youknow, kids that college kids
that go off to college, theycome home from university, and
the parents are like, I do notknow who this person is that has
(36:10):
come back into my home, andthere's a reintroduction, and
it's this opportunity.
Well, tell me tell me about yourfriends, tell me who you've met.
And interesting.
Yeah, so we get we can take thisin many different areas.
Maybe maybe we should do anotherone on this.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Anyway, I would I wouldn't really cover any of my
notes.
I know.
I know, or mine.
I mean, I'm just jumping around.
Nathan, has this chapter hit youmore than the others, or is it
just where you're at today?
Because you seem more like init.
SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
Well, it's uh let me read something.
Okay, and then I think that mayhelp answer.
Uh I was working on kind of asummary.
I won't read all of it.
Uh to learn to fly is to learnto love, right?
We established that in chapteron page 62.
Uh that reminds us that realgrowth includes loving ourselves
(37:02):
even when others don'tunderstand us yet.
Coming home means integratingwho we've become with where we
came from without shrinking backto fit old expectations.
In the end, OC discovers she wasmade of a map.
Everything she needed to soarwas already inside her.
So to for leaders for everybody,our direction, courage, and
(37:23):
wisdom come from within.
And like what hit me, or toanswer your question more, is
just this idea, um, especiallyjust because some conversation
I've been having with my kidslately, is this idea of like
we're not these static set, youknow, this this is who I am,
(37:45):
this is who I'm always gonna be,I'm never gonna change.
But when people have theseexpectations of us, uh I wonder
sometimes if we preventourselves from changing, from
flying, because we're like,well, I don't want to disappoint
this person, or I don't, youknow, have the flexibility or
whatever.
And so I guess that idea ofcourage, that idea of what you
(38:08):
said is so interesting, Brian,about people feel like once they
learn to fly, they can't comehome.
It's like, no, I can still flyand still land right back at my
same address.
And now it's just like, hey, I'mI'm different.
I've got these skills, I've gotwhatever.
And too often I think we havethis this broken record in our
head that just keeps goingaround and around and saying,
Nope, this is who you are, nope,this is what you do, nope, this
(38:30):
is how you react in thesecircumstances, in these
situations, and and it's notthat.
And I think, you know, themetaphor, you know, was neatly
wrapped up in 68 pages, I think.
Um transformation may take alittle bit longer than that.
But also, I think, you know,this could be a series of a
(38:50):
thousand books where there'sthis little transformation, then
this little transformation, andthen this little transformation.
It's not just one big boom, bam,we're done.
It's like one degree here andone degree there and one degree
there.
And you know, I'm 46, almost 47,and I was talking to my kids
about something the other day,and like I still don't feel like
a grown-up.
I still don't feel like I stilloften look to like who is the
(39:15):
grown-up in the room that knowswhat they're doing, and I don't
think anybody does.
Or we're all just at differentplaces.
So I don't know, that that's alittle bit of a rambling, but it
it that that thing on love was,I think I don't know, hit me
more than I think other thingsin this book because it's like,
so you've done the thing, you'recoming back, but now shouldn't
(39:38):
you have already overcome all ofthose criticisms and doubt and
everything?
But no, you can still do thething and come back, and
everyone's like, What?
Come on, no way.
SPEAKER_03 (39:48):
Then you go back to the dream and then you play some
more, and then you can try somemore.
It's a constant you discovermore about your map.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
And you that's right.
That's right.
People who work with you pushyou to the higher platform.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Yes, exactly.
And then what's next?
And what's now, and what's this,and what's that?
And I mean, the constant ischange, like nothing is
permanent, everything goes incycles and changes, and so how
do you both remain true, yourmap, but also become this new,
different quote unquote better,better version?
(40:21):
So uh I have a reflectionquestion that maybe we can just
leave it and maybe I'll cue themusic here and leave it, or if
you have a reflection on thereflection.
When you return to familiarplaces changed by growth, how
can you stay grounded inself-love instead of self-doubt?
(40:44):
I don't got an answer for that,but either of you have an
answer?
No.
This would be the million-dollartakeaway.
Because that is it.
SPEAKER_03 (40:52):
And that answer could change every day.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Yeah.
Well, as I wrote that and wasthinking about it, I think it's
also coming back to chapter two,constantly, play.
Like it's like, oh, I amdoubting myself.
Well, I'm just I'm still kind ofplaying.
I'm still kind of trying.
Like, yes, I flew, but now wewant to fly a little bit
further, and so let's play alittle bit more.
(41:15):
And like it's always I don'tknow.
Life is a constantexperimentation, maybe.
Like it's a constant process oftrying and failing and getting
back up.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
So and home becomes the next launch pad.
SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture
and personal transformation.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our other
episodes, we would appreciate itif you would follow us on the
socials, subscribe to us onYouTube and wherever you get
your podcast.
Click the link in the show notesto order your copy of Unfolded
(41:56):
Lessons in Transformation froman origami crane.
You can click the link in theshow notes to learn more about
what leadership vision does andhelping your team work through
all of these very important andpowerful topics.
I'm fumbling over my words, butmy name is Nathan Freeberg.
SPEAKER_03 (42:11):
And my name is Linda Schubring.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
And my name is and always will be Brian Schubring.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
All right.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.