October 20, 2025 • 36 mins
We explore how leaders move from try to fly: building self-belief through repeated practice, welcoming help (even when it’s uncomfortable), and trusting people, process, and place. We discuss the “pre-flight checklist,” the role of mentors at altitude (the “Eagle”), and how to hold your core identity—your map—through transformation.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why Fly is the climax of the Unfolded arc (Dream → Play → Try → Fly)
- How self-trust is built (not bought) through reps and reflection
- Ways to receive help without judging its shape (encouragers, planners, critics)
- The triple trust: people, process, place
- Mentoring at altitude: finding (and being) the Eagle
- Why your creases and crumples are reminders, not flaws
Mentioned/Related:
- Leadership Vision Consulting: leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane (book)
- Subscribe to our newsletter & follow on social (links on our website)
Try This:
Ask: What does flying mean to me right now? Name one small step—even if it scares you—and tell a trusted friend.
🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!
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Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
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ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Now, as you reflect this week, Brian and Linda and
all of you listeners, I want youto ask yourself this question:
what does flying mean to meright now?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take towards that
dream?
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Even if it scares you.
Yeah, because you didn't make itthe first two times.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Because I like the I like the question
flying mean to me right now,even if it scares you?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take toward that
dream, even if it scares me?
Then it acknowledges the fear,but also gives you courage to
step forward.
In a world of possibilities, whynot fly?
SPEAKER_04 (00:41):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at Leadership Vision
Consulting.com.
(01:01):
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg, and in today's
episode of the podcast, we arediving into chapter four of
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Oregami
Crane by Dr.
Linda and Brian Schubring.
This chapter is where O.C., theorigami crane, our hero of the
story, finally takes flight.
(01:21):
But flying isn't just aboutsoaring in the sky, it's a
metaphor for what happens whenwe move into the big leagues of
life.
In our conversation, we'll talkabout why self-belief is the
foundation of transformation,even when doubt and resistance
creep in, how trusted friendsand supporters are essential to
helping us step into our dreams,and what it means to hold on to
(01:43):
your core identity, your map, ifyou will, even as you unfold and
refold into new shapes.
Now, if you've ever felt on theedge of a new season or a
transition or bigger risks andhigher stakes, this episode will
help you imagine what flyingmight mean in your own life.
Enjoy.
(02:08):
Brian and Linda, welcome back tothe Leadership Vision Podcast.
You're about to fly on anairplane, I think.
Tomorrow or the day after,right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yes, hopefully.
SPEAKER_04 (02:19):
That's exciting.
Yes, we are.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
There is nothing like the the feeling of take and
flight.
SPEAKER_04 (02:27):
Exactly.
As we step into thisconversation, yes, Brian
immediately falls asleep on anairplane somehow.
As we, or I should say, beforewe jump into this conversation
and talk about chapter floor.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Floor?
SPEAKER_04 (02:41):
Floor?
Before we jump into thisconversation and talk about
chapter four, I'm curious wherethis fits in the larger arc, the
larger narrative of the story.
So some folks have probably beenjoining us every episode as we
walk through the book.
If you're brand new, uh don'tnecessarily go through the whole
(03:02):
book, but just kind of how doesthis idea of fly sort of fit in,
and then we'll dive in andunpack that.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yeah.
Well, fly represents the fourthchapter of our book Unfolded.
So the first chapter is Dream,where we're just setting the
stage for everything and you'remeeting some of the characters
and understanding some of thedreams that the origami crane or
OC has.
The next chapter is play, whichis practice in disguise.
(03:30):
And we've had some lovelyconversations about what does it
mean to figure out uh the placesand the people that you enjoy
doing life with and what you'relearning by the things that you
are enjoying in your life.
And the next chapter is try,which is more of the purposeful
practice, the intentionalpractice.
And the fourth chapter then ismore of the climax of the whole
(03:54):
whole allegory.
The climax of the whole allegoryis Fly, where OC prepares and
actually takes flight.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
It's an invitation for people to imagine when they
are in a place when they feelthe most alive and what are they
doing?
It's a place where sometimespeople are performing.
It could be a place wherethey're they're they're
teaching, educating, ormentoring someone.
Fly represents those moments inour life that we feel that we
have prepared and practiced for.
We've we've maybe spent years inpreparation for this one moment
(04:27):
where all the pieces seem tocome together.
We're in that moment when we'vetaken the risks and we've
engaged with courageous actionand we're taking flight, meaning
that we're in that flow state.
We're in that moment when thingsseem to be working.
We feel that we're most alive,when the lights don't burn, and
we just have this sense of joywith achieving something that
(04:48):
we've been working so hardtowards.
SPEAKER_03 (04:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
The thing I really like about this chapter is just
this idea of leaning into doubtwith courage and moving past
kind of the edges of fear.
That's right.
And you see that taking placewhen she finally makes it up
into the atmosphere and all thatthat happens.
It she kind of realizes that shecan only do this sort of after
(05:12):
she believes in herself, aftershe kind of has this realization
that, like, oh, I can do this.
How how much of sort of this Idon't know, call personal growth
or this mindset shift, or justthis ability to kind of
persevere despite or in spite ofall of those doubts, how much of
(05:33):
this whole idea begins with likeself-trust?
And how does one get a wholebunch of it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yeah.
I'd like an extra or something.
SPEAKER_04 (05:41):
Yeah, an extra supersize me, self-trust,
please.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Supersized.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Um yes, you're right, Nathan.
Flight is what happens afterwe've tried a bunch.
And in each of those attempts totry, we've gained a sense of
self-confidence or areassurance, or we've tried
something and it didn't work.
We improved it, we triedsomething else.
And flight is the result of manythings coming together,
(06:05):
including how we have recognizedour own emotions and how our
emotions are in many ways theway that we engage in flight.
Our emotions are what propels usforward and actually focuses us
on what we're trying to do.
So in the process of OC learningto fly, she's also learned how
(06:26):
to work with the emotions thatshe's feeling within her and the
emotional energy that'shappening around her.
When fly happens, um, thechapter opens by saying that
there's a new season, it's a newday.
The the characters are walkinginto a new part of the
playground.
There's so many new thingsthere, but one of the things
that doesn't change is theemotions that are accompanying
(06:50):
each of the individualcharacters, including OC.
But there has been a maturationin how people have learned to
work with their emotions, howthey've learned to work with
experimentation and try.
And all of these steps areleading towards the moment that
flight is going to occur.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Right before flight, it isn't that that OC has a
supersized helping of trust.
It is that it the time is nowhere.
And I think about the newseasons and the higher risks and
or the higher stakes and the thebigger risks that we often face
(07:29):
when we're about to take flight.
And we think it's maybe like thebig thing that we're gonna do in
our life.
And instead, I want I want us tothink about the new season first
before we actually think aboutfr flying.
So you could think of new seasonas the first day of school, the
the literal new season of theyear, the uh the opportunity to
(07:53):
like or when I when I talk topeople that are starting a job,
they will say things like, Ifeel like it's the first day of
school.
Like, am I gonna make friendsand what's gonna happen in this
new season?
And perhaps they're even aseason executive, and there's
still some of those nerves, someof those, okay, the
acknowledgement of I have agreat degree of trust because I
(08:15):
have practiced a ton.
Now I'm stepping into this newseason, whatever it may be.
I still have some of thejitters, those are just helping
keep me grounded a bit.
And then the the confidencecomes in just continuing to move
forward.
So OC has these friends, whichwe'll get to in just a moment,
(08:37):
but it's almost like the friendsare helping her be reminded of
what the next steps are.
She's just now like stakingclaim that she is in her new
season.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
And what's important about this chapter is the
chapter does not start with OCin flight.
Uh, this chapter does not startwith OC on the highest platform,
ready to go.
This chapter begins with some ofthe necessary and process that
goes into like the pre-flightprocess.
And that pre-flight process, Ithink, is really important for
individuals to understandbecause in writing this chapter,
(09:10):
I felt a strong conviction tolay out some of the steps that
happen before the flightactually occurs, because those
steps, I believe, are soimportant for someone to be able
to prepare for the flight that'scoming.
When we see people in flightwhen they're in that moment,
when things are going great forthem and they're in the
(09:30):
spotlight, we tend to overlookall the steps that it took for
them to get to that place intime when they have our
attention.
And like Linda's saying, thesefirst few pages of this chapter
are beginning to lay out who'saround us, what's happening,
what's changed in theenvironment, what are some of
the like the pre-flightchecklists and folding that
(09:53):
needs to happen before flightoccurs.
And that's an importantinvitation for all of us to
think to ourselves is what arewe going through in those final
stages before fight happens toactually take flight?
That's different for all of us.
SPEAKER_04 (10:06):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
You were mentioning they're notin the same place in chapter
four.
Like there's bigger, what's say,bigger slides, rope ladders,
like everything's kind of likeelevated, and we can probably
all in our mind picture you knowthe progression of playgrounds
as our kids kids get older.
It's why I use the phrase bigleagues in uh in in the opening,
(10:30):
and maybe it's because it's it'sOctober when we're recording
this.
My favorite baseball team's inthe playoffs, and it's just been
interesting watching some oftheir exhibit.
Uh but it's been interestingwatching some of their younger
rookie players kind of fall flatbecause they haven't maybe had
this pressure or they haven'tunderstood like what it means
(10:51):
and how the veteran players aretrying, I don't know, to sort of
calm nerves or whatever.
But you know, it's interesting.
We started, my first questionwas about self-trust.
How do you have that degree ofself-trust to tell you, I can do
this, I can fly?
But then as we see with OC, likeshe can't fly without her
friends helping her, refoldingher, all of that.
(11:12):
So I guess my question here issort of what role do supportive
relationships play when steppinginto this new season of growth?
It seems like we need friendswho are just obnoxiously
positive cheerleaders.
We need friends who can give ussome tough love.
I guess my real question is howdo you know when a friend is
(11:34):
being helpful in the way thatyou need?
How do you know when you knowyou've got a friend who's not
being helpful?
Like what is the role offriends, colleagues, whatever in
and also this degree ofself-trust.
Does that make sense?
It's like you have to be soblindly confident yourself that
you know you can do it, but thenyou're still in community, so
you still got to have all thesepeople to help you get there.
SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
Yeah, prior to the flight happening, uh, there is a
moment uh in this chapter whenOC becomes completely unfolded.
And that unfolding processhappens with all of her friends
helping her.
And the and I think theimportant piece in that part of
the chapter is that before theflight happens, everyone is
(12:16):
involved in helping OC achieveher goals.
Those characters that are fullyambitious, supportive,
developmental, including thefriends that are critical,
people are somehow involved inthat process.
I feel that for those of us whoare ready for flight, it's
important to recognize who'saround us to help us.
(12:36):
And sometimes we feel that eventhe critical friends or the or
the people that have maybe anegative perspective may not be
able to help in our process.
And I think the invitation inthis chapter is that how do we
stay open for people to help uswithout judging the shape or the
(12:57):
feeling of the help?
And when you think about theshape and feeling of the help
that people provide, sometimes,like Nathan, you said, we need
someone to come along with wordsof wisdom, people that know just
what to do.
And there are also those voicesthat that may seem sharper
critical in the moment, but theystill can provide some type of
(13:17):
assistance in the final takingshape that we need before that
flight actually happens.
And so how do we be open andkind to the help that's coming
our way and not judging who isproviding the help?
Because in the moment whenflight is about to happen,
(13:40):
people's perspectives change onwhat roles they can play.
And sometimes we limit the helpof others because of their past
and not being open to their helpin the present.
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I know the roles and responsibilities are highlighted
in this chapter.
And when you start to readthrough the allegory, perhaps
there's times where you'rethinking about how you helped
someone that was about to takeflight.
What role did you play?
Were you the encourager?
Were you the one that had a planand really helped execute?
(14:16):
Were you just in the periphery?
Were you secretly jealous andattacking that person
subversively or um maybeaggressively?
And uh what I enjoy about thischapter is everything is
happening, and what we tried todistill down was in the moment
before OC is folded into a paperplane, she starts to dream
(14:41):
again.
And she takes to her ownthoughts, and the the characters
step in in a different way, andand that sort of dreaming right
before flight is that reminderof some of the principles that
that we wanted to make sure thatwere in the book because there's
(15:02):
a there's a part in the bookthat's that was Brian's
favorite.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
And and the importance of letting people
help is for this reason.
There's a moment in this chapterwhen Rabbit, who's one of the
more critical friends, ishelping OC fold.
In that process of helping OCfold, Rabbit sees her reflection
in the slide and she realizesthat she also is made of a map.
That metaphor is importantbecause sometimes it's just
(15:29):
important for us to let peoplehelp because of what they're
going to learn about themselves,about their talents, about their
potential, about theirpossibility, because their their
fight is coming.
And sometimes in in that processof helping, we learn about
ourselves.
It's not our time to fly, butit's our time to try.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
And I don't think it's lining up a bunch of
friends and saying, All right, Ineed three of you to be helping
me in a really positive manner.
SPEAKER_04 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
I think it's uh even knowing how to be boundried with
the people that are way toocritical of thank you for the
feedback, and I'm just gonnakeep going.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Well, so what page are you on?
All right, so you can see thatlistener page 48 is just a flat
map.
And um Squares don't fly.
Squares don't fly.
There's there's this part wherethey realize, all right, we
gotta they're trying to fold herinto an airplane.
Yep they're like, all right, Ithink we need to start over.
If we can start from scratch, wecan get a better fold.
(16:34):
And then she freaks out.
She's like, what have you doneto me?
I'm a map, I'm flat, I'm asquare.
I think Fox is like, you're notgonna squares don't fly.
And then uh I think it's turtleis like just chill, we got a
plan.
Like we know what we're doing.
And so my I don't know exactlywhat my question is, maybe you
can find one here, but like tome, we're trying to this thing,
(16:58):
we're trying this thing, we havea plan, we're thinking forward,
we do this, do that, and thenthese people come around you and
they're like, actually, we gottado something in the moment
totally different.
How do you not freak out to thepoint where you just push them
aside and whatever?
Versus like, so there's this theself-trust, but there is a
tremendous amount I in thatsection there, I sense this
(17:19):
tremendous amount of trust inthese friends, in these people
who have helped her on thejourney.
How do you maybe this is goingback to question one around
self-trust?
But if it was me in thatsituation, I would be like,
they're gonna screw this up,they're gonna mess it up.
And I think one of them is like,we can put you back if you want.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Nathan, part one of the themes that is uh through
line through with this chapteris trust, like you're naming.
At the beginning, it is theself-trust.
You know, do I trust myself withmy dream?
Um, the section that you'repointing to right now, it is
about trusting people, trustingprocess and trusting place.
So you're trusting people thatare around you to help you
(18:02):
reshape, refold, and reform.
You're trusting the processbecause, like you said, Nathan,
someone in this crowd, they hada process, and you're also
trusting the timing of theplace.
Like I'm in the right place atthe right time, and this is my
moment.
And I really believe that formany people who have experienced
(18:22):
moments of flight, they knowthat there's often a challenge
in the middle somewhere whereyou're just about to be there,
and the trust elevates, andother and it's going to take
others to get you to this nextelevation.
And without them, it's not gonnahappen.
Because after this scene isover, the next scene is OC in
(18:47):
her new shape approaching thehighest platform in the
playground, and that's all onher own.
Like she is now on her own,trusting in herself again.
I've trusted myself in thebeginning, I've trusted the
process, and now I'm going totrust the action of taking
flight.
SPEAKER_04 (19:03):
Yeah.
So she she goes up there, shefalls a couple times, it doesn't
work.
Eventually, spoiler alert, shegets up in the air and she meets
Eagle.
SPEAKER_03 (19:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:11):
And now it's like a different character.
It's almost it almost like whenI read that, like the eagle,
they have a conversation aboutwhen you go back, you're gonna
be different.
So here's how you like bepatient, whatever.
But it almost feels like how doyou not leave those people
behind?
Because now you're a plane andyou're flying and you need the
wisdom of an eagle.
You need the air, like you needdifferent things than you did,
(19:35):
you know, when you were down onthe ground as a flat piece of
paper.
So how do you um I I don't knowwhere the question is there.
I guess like how how do you tryand respond to it?
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
And then I'll I got something to say.
SPEAKER_04 (19:49):
Yeah, thoughts.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
I hear you, I hear you, I hear you.
We hear you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
We're gonna answer both, and then we have to go
back to page 48, which comesbefore this.
Okay.
Uh is that the flat map?
45, 46.
No, let's talk about Eagle.
Okay.
Um, it's it's what OC goesthrough just before she takes
the platform.
Um, Nathan, this uh part of thechapter where Eagle appears, um,
(20:13):
it's probably one of my mostfavorite parts of the book.
Uh, because I believe quitestrongly that there are eagle
characters in all of our lives.
The eagle represents that personwho's quote unquote there.
Yeah.
They are already in flight.
They already have like that goalthat we've been searching for.
(20:34):
They're the ones that arealready doing it.
And it's almost like the eagleis waiting for you to encourage
you, to motivate you, to affirmyou that you've done the right
things, you're in the rightplace, and to introduce you to
what it's like to fly in thisnew atmosphere at this new
elevation to help interpret theperspective and the landscape
(20:57):
that you see to comfort thejitters and to remind you you
were meant to be here all along.
And I the leaders that I'vetalked to, they can each
identify a person that has beentheir eagle, that has given them
the strength to continue.
And I also think that thechallenge of this chapter of the
(21:18):
book is this who are you theeagle for?
That's right.
And sometimes I think that wejust don't look for people that
are flying around us, and thisis their first attempt.
And it's up to us to be able tosay to them, you're in the right
place, you're doing the rightthing.
Um, there may be some jittersand some things that need to be
smoothed out, but you're there.
(21:39):
Like you've you're actuallywhere you've meant to be.
And I think that's a role and avoice that people need to play
more often with each other.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Sometimes eagles surprise us.
Because I don't think we oftenthink about what we what or who
we will meet in our next season.
So sometimes we get worked up ofcan I perform well?
They you get worked up aroundcan I actually do this?
Can I, you know, take flight inhowever you are um reaching for
(22:08):
your dreams.
And when you stop thinking aboutmaybe the negative narrative or
just trying to lean into yourown positive narrative, I think
sometimes positive narrativesare limiting.
And I think when you lean into agrowth narrative, you cannot
help but see eagles around you.
The people that are waiting foryou, already doing what you are
(22:31):
seeking to accomplish, thatsneak up behind you, that come
alongside you, that recognizethat this is your new flight.
Uh, this is your first uhattempt in this, in this new
season, and can recognize thejoy on your face, the
exhilaration of the wind uharound you.
(22:54):
And I love that moment, and itfeels like in that moment, all
of a sudden it stops and the theaction turns right back into
reflection.
And there's this moment offlight, spoiler alert again.
This moment of flight where OCis like, wait a minute, I've
been training for this, now nowwait, now what?
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
Now what's happening?
SPEAKER_02 (23:17):
Uh so what do so I've been driving for this, but
what's my next goal or what'sthe next the next piece that
needs to happen?
And and I like that we highlightthat feeling because you can't
help then be an eagle forsomeone else.
Yeah, and you can't help butlook for the next eagle in your
(23:39):
chapter, as well as uh beinggentle with yourself, that it's
about the whole growth process,not just a spot in time to check
a box about a goal.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
Eagles recognize the accomplishment of where you are,
and eagles remind us that theimperfections are still there
too.
Because the crumples and creasesthat have been a part of OC's
story, they're still within theshape of her as she's in a
plane.
And that's important torecognize as well.
(24:13):
And and Eagle says theseimperfections are reminders of
the lessons learned and therisks that we've taken, the
vulnerability that we'veexperienced, and it's all okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
Eagle is so different than owl because owl
is the drumbeat voice.
Owl is present throughout thelanding in the playground to
coming back to the playground.
And eagle is is more of a a spotin time, a moment in time where
(24:46):
that mentor, that encouragingvoice, that person that is also
pursuing their dreams and theirgoals just comes alongside.
SPEAKER_04 (24:58):
Yes to everything you're saying, and I also want
to go back a little bit.
Yeah.
And also help me understand thedifference between try and fly
because uh OC gets folded,changed, goes to the top, and
still falls and still fails, andstill is like not with the eagle
yet.
So maybe I'll ask two questionsat once and then you guys can.
(25:21):
So the first question, how isthat not still the trying phase?
Uh maybe that's question one.
Question two then is how do wecontinue to celebrate uh
progress even when you're stillfailing?
SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
And I'll just leave with those two actually right
now.
The big difference between tryand fly is that in try, OC has
not completed the reforming andreshaping.
The transformation is only halfdone.
SPEAKER_04 (25:48):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
And in the chapter try, that half transformation is
the point.
SPEAKER_04 (25:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Because we think we're there, but we're not.
We're only halfway there, as yousaid in our last thing.
Yeah.
In the chapter fly, OC hasexperienced her full
transformation.
She has reshaped herself, she'sembraced the invitation to
change, she's asked for help,and now she has achieved or she
(26:14):
has arrived at a shape that'sgoing to take her to fulfill the
dream that she had of flying.
And that's the biggestdifference is what does it take
now when we have gone throughtransformation?
Is the dream complete yet?
And I'm going to, you know, justsay I don't think the dream's
complete one's transformation.
We've been transformed forsomething that's coming.
(26:36):
And in the chapter, there is amoment just before OC goes to
the highest platform.
She's in the shape of a planeand she's ready to go and take
flight.
And she has this moment of pausewhere several critical things
happen.
And one of the things thathappens in that pause is that
(26:58):
she reimagines what it's like tobe in flight.
So she engages her imagination.
And then visualization happens.
She looks up and she sees theshiny planes flying through the
sky.
And that visualization thenresults in her affirming
herself, oh, I know I can dothis.
And just at that moment, Owlcomes in and begins to prime her
(27:19):
and get her ready for flight.
And in that process, then shenames, these are my goals.
This is what I'm going to do.
I am ready.
And all of those steps happenafter the transformation occurs
and just before the flighthappens.
That's really good.
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
That's really good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
I guess I have another question too.
And the attempts to fly, do weanswer that one?
Because she does make threeattempts to fly.
Oh.
Do we need to go to that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:45):
Third times the charm, that's all.
SPEAKER_04 (27:47):
I I think we kind of I think we kind of cover that.
I'm gonna leave this in becauseI like I like the banter.
But I am um I'm not gonna readthis, but one of my um put a red
star by it.
Is that I'm pretty sure it'seagle talking.
It's one of the little sidesidebars.
Have you like, are you reallythat different?
Like, yeah.
(28:08):
Are you like, did you, did youchange?
I mean, you said that you weremeant to fly, your friends
probably knew this about you.
So I'm curious what that meansbecause if the whole thing is
about transformation, but thenyou're saying, Are you really
that different?
Come on.
Like, what is help me unpackthat a little bit because it's
like, yeah, you're totallydifferent.
You're a different shape, you'redifferent folded, you're still
(28:31):
made of that map, but you'revery different.
If uh you know I dismantle myhouse and build a boat out of
the wood, I mean that's quitedifferent.
Who are you, Noah?
Maybe, I don't know.
Uh kidding aside, do youunderstand my slightly sarcastic
(28:52):
question?
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, I've met so many people that I've I've I've
seen, you know, becomesomething, they help people, and
like and then when they achievea new dream, they're like
they're surprised.
I'm like, you've been doing thisyour whole time.
Like it just looked a little bitdifferent, or you were a little
bit younger, or you hadn'tachieved whatever, or you didn't
(29:13):
move, but you've been doing thesame thing over and over again.
Now it's just a little bitnuanced because of the time in
life that day you're at.
I think that happens all thetime.
People talk about and they puttogether like these baby steps
towards the bigger dreams thatis already in them.
So I think what's the surprise?
You've been talking like this,you've been practicing this for
(29:35):
years.
Why are you so surprised thatyou're flying all of a sudden?
Like you've been practicing.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
You've been practicing, you've been trying,
you've been playing, andsometimes when someone names a
dream, other people get you knowget around, like rally around
that person.
So, Nathan, I think about yourdream to run Boston ten years
ago uh ignited a dream in Brian.
And when the two of you ran theBoston Marathon, there was no
(30:11):
two of you when the two of youwere running the 2025 Boston
Marathon together step by step.
There to w to watch Brian, andhe even had his eagle wings out.
And some of the pictures showthat.
He has his eagle wings out.
And because Brian had visualizedthis race for you, Nathan.
(30:35):
And I feel like I had I was yourI was your YC.
Like you're gonna have so muchfun.
Anyone's gonna have fun.
It's gonna be Nathan Freeberg atthe Boston Marathon.
And and you had your own journeyof of getting your guides and
your support system.
And to celebrate that with youknow, to be out on the course
(31:00):
with Malia and to watch the twoof you just live your dreams,
that was the like it was in you.
It was in you, it was in both ofyou.
There wasn't a shock, like youknow, maybe you were surprised
or the the flood of emotion thatcomes over you, but the people
that care about you, the peoplethat see you are like, Yeah,
(31:22):
that was in you.
You're you're built for that.
You were built to run.
SPEAKER_04 (31:27):
Well, in the same way that you were my Eagles, uh
yesterday I had a friend who ranhis first marathon here in
Portland.
It didn't go well, as many firstmarathons don't.
And so I was kind of consoling,not consoling him, but just like
uh relating to him.
I brought him a pint of icecream.
I was like, this is my traditionafter every marathon, I do this.
(31:47):
And I was like, you know, I hada buddy who's done 10 marathons,
10 Bostons, more like crazy fastPR, and he ran his like
hundredth marathon yesterday,and it also didn't go well.
You Brian, that was Brian.
And the point is, or the pointI'm trying to make, is that you
one of you said this earlier,but we're often eagles uh at
(32:11):
we're eagles in for kind of thelike when someone is an eagle
for us in something, we're alsoan eagle for someone else in
that way.
Like we're all at differentparts of this journey, and so
how do you kind of recognizethat and become that eagle for
someone as you are also beingeagled?
Is that a term?
Can we say that?
Yes, I like it.
Having that, yeah um, and that'show the chapter ends.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Um it ends with the invitation that I think is so
universal.
Whatever your lived experienceis, whatever that that flight is
for you, there are lessons andwisdom within that experience
that are meant to be shared whenwe return from the flight.
Yeah.
And Nathan, your story is anamazing example that no matter
(32:56):
where we are in our our journey,we may just be one or two steps
ahead of someone else, and theycan be the recipient of some of
those lessons and wisdom thatwe've learned because they're
ours to share.
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
And the best kind of transformation is the kind that
benefits humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_04 (33:15):
So as we think about what it means to fly in our
personal lives, chapter fourreminds us that transformation
is both thrilling and risky.
Flying requires belief inourselves, support from others,
and the courage to embrace ourunique maps, folds, creases, and
all.
For each of us, flying mightlook different, but the
invitation is the same (33:33):
to trust the transformation, to celebrate
progress, and to step into thebigger playground of life with
confidence.
So now, as you reflect thisweek, Brian and Linda and all of
you listeners, I want you to askyourself this question: what
does flying mean to me rightnow?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take towards that
(33:55):
dream?
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Even if it scares you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Yeah, because you didn't make it the first two
times.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Because I like the I like the question
flying mean to me right now,even if it scares you?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take toward that
dream, even if it scares me?
Then it acknowledges the fear,but also gives you courage to
step forward.
In a world of possibilities, whynot fly?
SPEAKER_04 (34:20):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture.
If you found any value from thisepisode or any of our other
resources, we would love it ifyou would go review us wherever
you get your podcasts, follow uson social media, subscribe to
our email newsletter, or justsend this to someone else who
you think might benefit fromthis idea of flying.
(34:42):
You can click the link in theshow notes to get more
information about us and connectwith us or visit us on the web
at Leadership VisionConsulting.com.
My name is Nathan Freeberg.
I'm Linda Schubring.
And I'm Brian Schubring.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening and
flying.
Now, as you reflect this week, Brian and Linda and
all of you listeners, I want youto ask yourself this question:
what does flying mean to meright now?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take towards that
dream?
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Even if it scares you.
Yeah, because you didn't make itthe first two times.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Because I like the I like the question
flying mean to me right now,even if it scares you?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take toward that
dream, even if it scares me?
Then it acknowledges the fear,but also gives you courage to
step forward.
In a world of possibilities, whynot fly?
SPEAKER_04 (00:41):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at Leadership Vision
Consulting.com.
(01:01):
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg, and in today's
episode of the podcast, we arediving into chapter four of
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Oregami
Crane by Dr.
Linda and Brian Schubring.
This chapter is where O.C., theorigami crane, our hero of the
story, finally takes flight.
(01:21):
But flying isn't just aboutsoaring in the sky, it's a
metaphor for what happens whenwe move into the big leagues of
life.
In our conversation, we'll talkabout why self-belief is the
foundation of transformation,even when doubt and resistance
creep in, how trusted friendsand supporters are essential to
helping us step into our dreams,and what it means to hold on to
(01:43):
your core identity, your map, ifyou will, even as you unfold and
refold into new shapes.
Now, if you've ever felt on theedge of a new season or a
transition or bigger risks andhigher stakes, this episode will
help you imagine what flyingmight mean in your own life.
Enjoy.
(02:08):
Brian and Linda, welcome back tothe Leadership Vision Podcast.
You're about to fly on anairplane, I think.
Tomorrow or the day after,right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yes, hopefully.
SPEAKER_04 (02:19):
That's exciting.
Yes, we are.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
There is nothing like the the feeling of take and
flight.
SPEAKER_04 (02:27):
Exactly.
As we step into thisconversation, yes, Brian
immediately falls asleep on anairplane somehow.
As we, or I should say, beforewe jump into this conversation
and talk about chapter floor.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Floor?
SPEAKER_04 (02:41):
Floor?
Before we jump into thisconversation and talk about
chapter four, I'm curious wherethis fits in the larger arc, the
larger narrative of the story.
So some folks have probably beenjoining us every episode as we
walk through the book.
If you're brand new, uh don'tnecessarily go through the whole
(03:02):
book, but just kind of how doesthis idea of fly sort of fit in,
and then we'll dive in andunpack that.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yeah.
Well, fly represents the fourthchapter of our book Unfolded.
So the first chapter is Dream,where we're just setting the
stage for everything and you'remeeting some of the characters
and understanding some of thedreams that the origami crane or
OC has.
The next chapter is play, whichis practice in disguise.
(03:30):
And we've had some lovelyconversations about what does it
mean to figure out uh the placesand the people that you enjoy
doing life with and what you'relearning by the things that you
are enjoying in your life.
And the next chapter is try,which is more of the purposeful
practice, the intentionalpractice.
And the fourth chapter then ismore of the climax of the whole
(03:54):
whole allegory.
The climax of the whole allegoryis Fly, where OC prepares and
actually takes flight.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
It's an invitation for people to imagine when they
are in a place when they feelthe most alive and what are they
doing?
It's a place where sometimespeople are performing.
It could be a place wherethey're they're they're
teaching, educating, ormentoring someone.
Fly represents those moments inour life that we feel that we
have prepared and practiced for.
We've we've maybe spent years inpreparation for this one moment
(04:27):
where all the pieces seem tocome together.
We're in that moment when we'vetaken the risks and we've
engaged with courageous actionand we're taking flight, meaning
that we're in that flow state.
We're in that moment when thingsseem to be working.
We feel that we're most alive,when the lights don't burn, and
we just have this sense of joywith achieving something that
(04:48):
we've been working so hardtowards.
SPEAKER_03 (04:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
The thing I really like about this chapter is just
this idea of leaning into doubtwith courage and moving past
kind of the edges of fear.
That's right.
And you see that taking placewhen she finally makes it up
into the atmosphere and all thatthat happens.
It she kind of realizes that shecan only do this sort of after
(05:12):
she believes in herself, aftershe kind of has this realization
that, like, oh, I can do this.
How how much of sort of this Idon't know, call personal growth
or this mindset shift, or justthis ability to kind of
persevere despite or in spite ofall of those doubts, how much of
(05:33):
this whole idea begins with likeself-trust?
And how does one get a wholebunch of it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yeah.
I'd like an extra or something.
SPEAKER_04 (05:41):
Yeah, an extra supersize me, self-trust,
please.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Supersized.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Um yes, you're right, Nathan.
Flight is what happens afterwe've tried a bunch.
And in each of those attempts totry, we've gained a sense of
self-confidence or areassurance, or we've tried
something and it didn't work.
We improved it, we triedsomething else.
And flight is the result of manythings coming together,
(06:05):
including how we have recognizedour own emotions and how our
emotions are in many ways theway that we engage in flight.
Our emotions are what propels usforward and actually focuses us
on what we're trying to do.
So in the process of OC learningto fly, she's also learned how
(06:26):
to work with the emotions thatshe's feeling within her and the
emotional energy that'shappening around her.
When fly happens, um, thechapter opens by saying that
there's a new season, it's a newday.
The the characters are walkinginto a new part of the
playground.
There's so many new thingsthere, but one of the things
that doesn't change is theemotions that are accompanying
(06:50):
each of the individualcharacters, including OC.
But there has been a maturationin how people have learned to
work with their emotions, howthey've learned to work with
experimentation and try.
And all of these steps areleading towards the moment that
flight is going to occur.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Right before flight, it isn't that that OC has a
supersized helping of trust.
It is that it the time is nowhere.
And I think about the newseasons and the higher risks and
or the higher stakes and the thebigger risks that we often face
(07:29):
when we're about to take flight.
And we think it's maybe like thebig thing that we're gonna do in
our life.
And instead, I want I want us tothink about the new season first
before we actually think aboutfr flying.
So you could think of new seasonas the first day of school, the
the literal new season of theyear, the uh the opportunity to
(07:53):
like or when I when I talk topeople that are starting a job,
they will say things like, Ifeel like it's the first day of
school.
Like, am I gonna make friendsand what's gonna happen in this
new season?
And perhaps they're even aseason executive, and there's
still some of those nerves, someof those, okay, the
acknowledgement of I have agreat degree of trust because I
(08:15):
have practiced a ton.
Now I'm stepping into this newseason, whatever it may be.
I still have some of thejitters, those are just helping
keep me grounded a bit.
And then the the confidencecomes in just continuing to move
forward.
So OC has these friends, whichwe'll get to in just a moment,
(08:37):
but it's almost like the friendsare helping her be reminded of
what the next steps are.
She's just now like stakingclaim that she is in her new
season.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
And what's important about this chapter is the
chapter does not start with OCin flight.
Uh, this chapter does not startwith OC on the highest platform,
ready to go.
This chapter begins with some ofthe necessary and process that
goes into like the pre-flightprocess.
And that pre-flight process, Ithink, is really important for
individuals to understandbecause in writing this chapter,
(09:10):
I felt a strong conviction tolay out some of the steps that
happen before the flightactually occurs, because those
steps, I believe, are soimportant for someone to be able
to prepare for the flight that'scoming.
When we see people in flightwhen they're in that moment,
when things are going great forthem and they're in the
(09:30):
spotlight, we tend to overlookall the steps that it took for
them to get to that place intime when they have our
attention.
And like Linda's saying, thesefirst few pages of this chapter
are beginning to lay out who'saround us, what's happening,
what's changed in theenvironment, what are some of
the like the pre-flightchecklists and folding that
(09:53):
needs to happen before flightoccurs.
And that's an importantinvitation for all of us to
think to ourselves is what arewe going through in those final
stages before fight happens toactually take flight?
That's different for all of us.
SPEAKER_04 (10:06):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
You were mentioning they're notin the same place in chapter
four.
Like there's bigger, what's say,bigger slides, rope ladders,
like everything's kind of likeelevated, and we can probably
all in our mind picture you knowthe progression of playgrounds
as our kids kids get older.
It's why I use the phrase bigleagues in uh in in the opening,
(10:30):
and maybe it's because it's it'sOctober when we're recording
this.
My favorite baseball team's inthe playoffs, and it's just been
interesting watching some oftheir exhibit.
Uh but it's been interestingwatching some of their younger
rookie players kind of fall flatbecause they haven't maybe had
this pressure or they haven'tunderstood like what it means
(10:51):
and how the veteran players aretrying, I don't know, to sort of
calm nerves or whatever.
But you know, it's interesting.
We started, my first questionwas about self-trust.
How do you have that degree ofself-trust to tell you, I can do
this, I can fly?
But then as we see with OC, likeshe can't fly without her
friends helping her, refoldingher, all of that.
(11:12):
So I guess my question here issort of what role do supportive
relationships play when steppinginto this new season of growth?
It seems like we need friendswho are just obnoxiously
positive cheerleaders.
We need friends who can give ussome tough love.
I guess my real question is howdo you know when a friend is
(11:34):
being helpful in the way thatyou need?
How do you know when you knowyou've got a friend who's not
being helpful?
Like what is the role offriends, colleagues, whatever in
and also this degree ofself-trust.
Does that make sense?
It's like you have to be soblindly confident yourself that
you know you can do it, but thenyou're still in community, so
you still got to have all thesepeople to help you get there.
SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
Yeah, prior to the flight happening, uh, there is a
moment uh in this chapter whenOC becomes completely unfolded.
And that unfolding processhappens with all of her friends
helping her.
And the and I think theimportant piece in that part of
the chapter is that before theflight happens, everyone is
(12:16):
involved in helping OC achieveher goals.
Those characters that are fullyambitious, supportive,
developmental, including thefriends that are critical,
people are somehow involved inthat process.
I feel that for those of us whoare ready for flight, it's
important to recognize who'saround us to help us.
(12:36):
And sometimes we feel that eventhe critical friends or the or
the people that have maybe anegative perspective may not be
able to help in our process.
And I think the invitation inthis chapter is that how do we
stay open for people to help uswithout judging the shape or the
(12:57):
feeling of the help?
And when you think about theshape and feeling of the help
that people provide, sometimes,like Nathan, you said, we need
someone to come along with wordsof wisdom, people that know just
what to do.
And there are also those voicesthat that may seem sharper
critical in the moment, but theystill can provide some type of
(13:17):
assistance in the final takingshape that we need before that
flight actually happens.
And so how do we be open andkind to the help that's coming
our way and not judging who isproviding the help?
Because in the moment whenflight is about to happen,
(13:40):
people's perspectives change onwhat roles they can play.
And sometimes we limit the helpof others because of their past
and not being open to their helpin the present.
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I know the roles and responsibilities are highlighted
in this chapter.
And when you start to readthrough the allegory, perhaps
there's times where you'rethinking about how you helped
someone that was about to takeflight.
What role did you play?
Were you the encourager?
Were you the one that had a planand really helped execute?
(14:16):
Were you just in the periphery?
Were you secretly jealous andattacking that person
subversively or um maybeaggressively?
And uh what I enjoy about thischapter is everything is
happening, and what we tried todistill down was in the moment
before OC is folded into a paperplane, she starts to dream
(14:41):
again.
And she takes to her ownthoughts, and the the characters
step in in a different way, andand that sort of dreaming right
before flight is that reminderof some of the principles that
that we wanted to make sure thatwere in the book because there's
(15:02):
a there's a part in the bookthat's that was Brian's
favorite.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
And and the importance of letting people
help is for this reason.
There's a moment in this chapterwhen Rabbit, who's one of the
more critical friends, ishelping OC fold.
In that process of helping OCfold, Rabbit sees her reflection
in the slide and she realizesthat she also is made of a map.
That metaphor is importantbecause sometimes it's just
(15:29):
important for us to let peoplehelp because of what they're
going to learn about themselves,about their talents, about their
potential, about theirpossibility, because their their
fight is coming.
And sometimes in in that processof helping, we learn about
ourselves.
It's not our time to fly, butit's our time to try.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
And I don't think it's lining up a bunch of
friends and saying, All right, Ineed three of you to be helping
me in a really positive manner.
SPEAKER_04 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
I think it's uh even knowing how to be boundried with
the people that are way toocritical of thank you for the
feedback, and I'm just gonnakeep going.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Well, so what page are you on?
All right, so you can see thatlistener page 48 is just a flat
map.
And um Squares don't fly.
Squares don't fly.
There's there's this part wherethey realize, all right, we
gotta they're trying to fold herinto an airplane.
Yep they're like, all right, Ithink we need to start over.
If we can start from scratch, wecan get a better fold.
(16:34):
And then she freaks out.
She's like, what have you doneto me?
I'm a map, I'm flat, I'm asquare.
I think Fox is like, you're notgonna squares don't fly.
And then uh I think it's turtleis like just chill, we got a
plan.
Like we know what we're doing.
And so my I don't know exactlywhat my question is, maybe you
can find one here, but like tome, we're trying to this thing,
(16:58):
we're trying this thing, we havea plan, we're thinking forward,
we do this, do that, and thenthese people come around you and
they're like, actually, we gottado something in the moment
totally different.
How do you not freak out to thepoint where you just push them
aside and whatever?
Versus like, so there's this theself-trust, but there is a
tremendous amount I in thatsection there, I sense this
(17:19):
tremendous amount of trust inthese friends, in these people
who have helped her on thejourney.
How do you maybe this is goingback to question one around
self-trust?
But if it was me in thatsituation, I would be like,
they're gonna screw this up,they're gonna mess it up.
And I think one of them is like,we can put you back if you want.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Nathan, part one of the themes that is uh through
line through with this chapteris trust, like you're naming.
At the beginning, it is theself-trust.
You know, do I trust myself withmy dream?
Um, the section that you'repointing to right now, it is
about trusting people, trustingprocess and trusting place.
So you're trusting people thatare around you to help you
(18:02):
reshape, refold, and reform.
You're trusting the processbecause, like you said, Nathan,
someone in this crowd, they hada process, and you're also
trusting the timing of theplace.
Like I'm in the right place atthe right time, and this is my
moment.
And I really believe that formany people who have experienced
(18:22):
moments of flight, they knowthat there's often a challenge
in the middle somewhere whereyou're just about to be there,
and the trust elevates, andother and it's going to take
others to get you to this nextelevation.
And without them, it's not gonnahappen.
Because after this scene isover, the next scene is OC in
(18:47):
her new shape approaching thehighest platform in the
playground, and that's all onher own.
Like she is now on her own,trusting in herself again.
I've trusted myself in thebeginning, I've trusted the
process, and now I'm going totrust the action of taking
flight.
SPEAKER_04 (19:03):
Yeah.
So she she goes up there, shefalls a couple times, it doesn't
work.
Eventually, spoiler alert, shegets up in the air and she meets
Eagle.
SPEAKER_03 (19:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:11):
And now it's like a different character.
It's almost it almost like whenI read that, like the eagle,
they have a conversation aboutwhen you go back, you're gonna
be different.
So here's how you like bepatient, whatever.
But it almost feels like how doyou not leave those people
behind?
Because now you're a plane andyou're flying and you need the
wisdom of an eagle.
You need the air, like you needdifferent things than you did,
(19:35):
you know, when you were down onthe ground as a flat piece of
paper.
So how do you um I I don't knowwhere the question is there.
I guess like how how do you tryand respond to it?
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
And then I'll I got something to say.
SPEAKER_04 (19:49):
Yeah, thoughts.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
I hear you, I hear you, I hear you.
We hear you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
We're gonna answer both, and then we have to go
back to page 48, which comesbefore this.
Okay.
Uh is that the flat map?
45, 46.
No, let's talk about Eagle.
Okay.
Um, it's it's what OC goesthrough just before she takes
the platform.
Um, Nathan, this uh part of thechapter where Eagle appears, um,
(20:13):
it's probably one of my mostfavorite parts of the book.
Uh, because I believe quitestrongly that there are eagle
characters in all of our lives.
The eagle represents that personwho's quote unquote there.
Yeah.
They are already in flight.
They already have like that goalthat we've been searching for.
(20:34):
They're the ones that arealready doing it.
And it's almost like the eagleis waiting for you to encourage
you, to motivate you, to affirmyou that you've done the right
things, you're in the rightplace, and to introduce you to
what it's like to fly in thisnew atmosphere at this new
elevation to help interpret theperspective and the landscape
(20:57):
that you see to comfort thejitters and to remind you you
were meant to be here all along.
And I the leaders that I'vetalked to, they can each
identify a person that has beentheir eagle, that has given them
the strength to continue.
And I also think that thechallenge of this chapter of the
(21:18):
book is this who are you theeagle for?
That's right.
And sometimes I think that wejust don't look for people that
are flying around us, and thisis their first attempt.
And it's up to us to be able tosay to them, you're in the right
place, you're doing the rightthing.
Um, there may be some jittersand some things that need to be
smoothed out, but you're there.
(21:39):
Like you've you're actuallywhere you've meant to be.
And I think that's a role and avoice that people need to play
more often with each other.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Sometimes eagles surprise us.
Because I don't think we oftenthink about what we what or who
we will meet in our next season.
So sometimes we get worked up ofcan I perform well?
They you get worked up aroundcan I actually do this?
Can I, you know, take flight inhowever you are um reaching for
(22:08):
your dreams.
And when you stop thinking aboutmaybe the negative narrative or
just trying to lean into yourown positive narrative, I think
sometimes positive narrativesare limiting.
And I think when you lean into agrowth narrative, you cannot
help but see eagles around you.
The people that are waiting foryou, already doing what you are
(22:31):
seeking to accomplish, thatsneak up behind you, that come
alongside you, that recognizethat this is your new flight.
Uh, this is your first uhattempt in this, in this new
season, and can recognize thejoy on your face, the
exhilaration of the wind uharound you.
(22:54):
And I love that moment, and itfeels like in that moment, all
of a sudden it stops and the theaction turns right back into
reflection.
And there's this moment offlight, spoiler alert again.
This moment of flight where OCis like, wait a minute, I've
been training for this, now nowwait, now what?
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
Now what's happening?
SPEAKER_02 (23:17):
Uh so what do so I've been driving for this, but
what's my next goal or what'sthe next the next piece that
needs to happen?
And and I like that we highlightthat feeling because you can't
help then be an eagle forsomeone else.
Yeah, and you can't help butlook for the next eagle in your
(23:39):
chapter, as well as uh beinggentle with yourself, that it's
about the whole growth process,not just a spot in time to check
a box about a goal.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
Eagles recognize the accomplishment of where you are,
and eagles remind us that theimperfections are still there
too.
Because the crumples and creasesthat have been a part of OC's
story, they're still within theshape of her as she's in a
plane.
And that's important torecognize as well.
(24:13):
And and Eagle says theseimperfections are reminders of
the lessons learned and therisks that we've taken, the
vulnerability that we'veexperienced, and it's all okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
Eagle is so different than owl because owl
is the drumbeat voice.
Owl is present throughout thelanding in the playground to
coming back to the playground.
And eagle is is more of a a spotin time, a moment in time where
(24:46):
that mentor, that encouragingvoice, that person that is also
pursuing their dreams and theirgoals just comes alongside.
SPEAKER_04 (24:58):
Yes to everything you're saying, and I also want
to go back a little bit.
Yeah.
And also help me understand thedifference between try and fly
because uh OC gets folded,changed, goes to the top, and
still falls and still fails, andstill is like not with the eagle
yet.
So maybe I'll ask two questionsat once and then you guys can.
(25:21):
So the first question, how isthat not still the trying phase?
Uh maybe that's question one.
Question two then is how do wecontinue to celebrate uh
progress even when you're stillfailing?
SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
And I'll just leave with those two actually right
now.
The big difference between tryand fly is that in try, OC has
not completed the reforming andreshaping.
The transformation is only halfdone.
SPEAKER_04 (25:48):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
And in the chapter try, that half transformation is
the point.
SPEAKER_04 (25:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Because we think we're there, but we're not.
We're only halfway there, as yousaid in our last thing.
Yeah.
In the chapter fly, OC hasexperienced her full
transformation.
She has reshaped herself, she'sembraced the invitation to
change, she's asked for help,and now she has achieved or she
(26:14):
has arrived at a shape that'sgoing to take her to fulfill the
dream that she had of flying.
And that's the biggestdifference is what does it take
now when we have gone throughtransformation?
Is the dream complete yet?
And I'm going to, you know, justsay I don't think the dream's
complete one's transformation.
We've been transformed forsomething that's coming.
(26:36):
And in the chapter, there is amoment just before OC goes to
the highest platform.
She's in the shape of a planeand she's ready to go and take
flight.
And she has this moment of pausewhere several critical things
happen.
And one of the things thathappens in that pause is that
(26:58):
she reimagines what it's like tobe in flight.
So she engages her imagination.
And then visualization happens.
She looks up and she sees theshiny planes flying through the
sky.
And that visualization thenresults in her affirming
herself, oh, I know I can dothis.
And just at that moment, Owlcomes in and begins to prime her
(27:19):
and get her ready for flight.
And in that process, then shenames, these are my goals.
This is what I'm going to do.
I am ready.
And all of those steps happenafter the transformation occurs
and just before the flighthappens.
That's really good.
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
That's really good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
I guess I have another question too.
And the attempts to fly, do weanswer that one?
Because she does make threeattempts to fly.
Oh.
Do we need to go to that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:45):
Third times the charm, that's all.
SPEAKER_04 (27:47):
I I think we kind of I think we kind of cover that.
I'm gonna leave this in becauseI like I like the banter.
But I am um I'm not gonna readthis, but one of my um put a red
star by it.
Is that I'm pretty sure it'seagle talking.
It's one of the little sidesidebars.
Have you like, are you reallythat different?
Like, yeah.
(28:08):
Are you like, did you, did youchange?
I mean, you said that you weremeant to fly, your friends
probably knew this about you.
So I'm curious what that meansbecause if the whole thing is
about transformation, but thenyou're saying, Are you really
that different?
Come on.
Like, what is help me unpackthat a little bit because it's
like, yeah, you're totallydifferent.
You're a different shape, you'redifferent folded, you're still
(28:31):
made of that map, but you'revery different.
If uh you know I dismantle myhouse and build a boat out of
the wood, I mean that's quitedifferent.
Who are you, Noah?
Maybe, I don't know.
Uh kidding aside, do youunderstand my slightly sarcastic
(28:52):
question?
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, I've met so many people that I've I've I've
seen, you know, becomesomething, they help people, and
like and then when they achievea new dream, they're like
they're surprised.
I'm like, you've been doing thisyour whole time.
Like it just looked a little bitdifferent, or you were a little
bit younger, or you hadn'tachieved whatever, or you didn't
(29:13):
move, but you've been doing thesame thing over and over again.
Now it's just a little bitnuanced because of the time in
life that day you're at.
I think that happens all thetime.
People talk about and they puttogether like these baby steps
towards the bigger dreams thatis already in them.
So I think what's the surprise?
You've been talking like this,you've been practicing this for
(29:35):
years.
Why are you so surprised thatyou're flying all of a sudden?
Like you've been practicing.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
You've been practicing, you've been trying,
you've been playing, andsometimes when someone names a
dream, other people get you knowget around, like rally around
that person.
So, Nathan, I think about yourdream to run Boston ten years
ago uh ignited a dream in Brian.
And when the two of you ran theBoston Marathon, there was no
(30:11):
two of you when the two of youwere running the 2025 Boston
Marathon together step by step.
There to w to watch Brian, andhe even had his eagle wings out.
And some of the pictures showthat.
He has his eagle wings out.
And because Brian had visualizedthis race for you, Nathan.
(30:35):
And I feel like I had I was yourI was your YC.
Like you're gonna have so muchfun.
Anyone's gonna have fun.
It's gonna be Nathan Freeberg atthe Boston Marathon.
And and you had your own journeyof of getting your guides and
your support system.
And to celebrate that with youknow, to be out on the course
(31:00):
with Malia and to watch the twoof you just live your dreams,
that was the like it was in you.
It was in you, it was in both ofyou.
There wasn't a shock, like youknow, maybe you were surprised
or the the flood of emotion thatcomes over you, but the people
that care about you, the peoplethat see you are like, Yeah,
(31:22):
that was in you.
You're you're built for that.
You were built to run.
SPEAKER_04 (31:27):
Well, in the same way that you were my Eagles, uh
yesterday I had a friend who ranhis first marathon here in
Portland.
It didn't go well, as many firstmarathons don't.
And so I was kind of consoling,not consoling him, but just like
uh relating to him.
I brought him a pint of icecream.
I was like, this is my traditionafter every marathon, I do this.
(31:47):
And I was like, you know, I hada buddy who's done 10 marathons,
10 Bostons, more like crazy fastPR, and he ran his like
hundredth marathon yesterday,and it also didn't go well.
You Brian, that was Brian.
And the point is, or the pointI'm trying to make, is that you
one of you said this earlier,but we're often eagles uh at
(32:11):
we're eagles in for kind of thelike when someone is an eagle
for us in something, we're alsoan eagle for someone else in
that way.
Like we're all at differentparts of this journey, and so
how do you kind of recognizethat and become that eagle for
someone as you are also beingeagled?
Is that a term?
Can we say that?
Yes, I like it.
Having that, yeah um, and that'show the chapter ends.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Um it ends with the invitation that I think is so
universal.
Whatever your lived experienceis, whatever that that flight is
for you, there are lessons andwisdom within that experience
that are meant to be shared whenwe return from the flight.
Yeah.
And Nathan, your story is anamazing example that no matter
(32:56):
where we are in our our journey,we may just be one or two steps
ahead of someone else, and theycan be the recipient of some of
those lessons and wisdom thatwe've learned because they're
ours to share.
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
And the best kind of transformation is the kind that
benefits humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_04 (33:15):
So as we think about what it means to fly in our
personal lives, chapter fourreminds us that transformation
is both thrilling and risky.
Flying requires belief inourselves, support from others,
and the courage to embrace ourunique maps, folds, creases, and
all.
For each of us, flying mightlook different, but the
invitation is the same (33:33):
to trust the transformation, to celebrate
progress, and to step into thebigger playground of life with
confidence.
So now, as you reflect thisweek, Brian and Linda and all of
you listeners, I want you to askyourself this question: what
does flying mean to me rightnow?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take towards that
(33:55):
dream?
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Even if it scares you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Yeah, because you didn't make it the first two
times.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Because I like the I like the question
flying mean to me right now,even if it scares you?
What small step of belief orcourage can I take toward that
dream, even if it scares me?
Then it acknowledges the fear,but also gives you courage to
step forward.
In a world of possibilities, whynot fly?
SPEAKER_04 (34:20):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture.
If you found any value from thisepisode or any of our other
resources, we would love it ifyou would go review us wherever
you get your podcasts, follow uson social media, subscribe to
our email newsletter, or justsend this to someone else who
you think might benefit fromthis idea of flying.
(34:42):
You can click the link in theshow notes to get more
information about us and connectwith us or visit us on the web
at Leadership VisionConsulting.com.
My name is Nathan Freeberg.
I'm Linda Schubring.
And I'm Brian Schubring.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening and
flying.
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