April 7, 2025 • 55 mins
Review and analysis of Daredevil Born Again episode 7, "Art for Art's Sake." Join us for our discussion on whether Daredevil interfere with a police investigation; issues with assaulting police offices; when can a psychotherapist disclose a doctor-patient communication; the duty to rescue; threatening a journalist; and conspiracy to commit murder.
No part of this recording should be considered legal advice.
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Episode Transcript
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Joshua Gilliland (00:05):
Hello everyone , my name is Joshua Gilliland,
one of the founding attorneys ofthe Legal Geeks.
We are here for the penultimateepisode of Daredevil Born Again
.
Art for art's sake.
It's been a long weekend.
Here we are to discuss thisfantastic show with Gabby Martin
and retired judge MatthewSherino.
(00:27):
Gabby, how you doing Doing?
Gaby Martin (00:30):
good this was, I will say I feel like was the
biggest return to where theNetflix show was in terms of
just the sheer violence and, inmy opinion, scariness, um, but
um, I I loved it.
So it's great and I'm excitedto see where it all ends up.
And you know, we already havecasting news for season two um,
(00:55):
new casting news every day, um,so that's exciting too fantastic
, your honor it's nice to seeDaredevil born again and back in
the red suit and the devil ofHell's Kitchen to be front and
center.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (01:14):
And, as Gabby said, the violence level
was clearly at the levels of theoriginal Netflix show.
Joshua Gilliland (01:22):
Yes, it was.
And boy and boy, howdy was itglorious?
Uh, just, you know, the firsttime around they had
exceptionally well choreographedfights.
That continues here and the uhwriting a compelling story where
you care about the charactersoutside of the super suit and
(01:42):
being able to have some, uh,extreme fighting.
I'm talking about thecharacters outside of the super
suit and being able to have someextreme fighting.
I'm talking about the grapplinghook that it's like Whoa,
that's impressive.
But people aren't here just tohear us nerds talk about how
much we love it.
They're here to hear us talkabout our legal analysis and
(02:03):
there's a lot to unpack in thisepisode.
So we've all made notes.
And first is did Daredevilinterfere with a police
investigation?
And then I'm referring to himgoing to the crime scene after
the officers have left.
And your Honor, it looks likeyou have some thoughts on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (02:26):
In as much as after the officers left.
The officers would have alreadygathered what they kind of
needed, and so it might not riseto the level of obstruction of
governmental administrationwhich is a misdemeanor crime in
New York under Section 195.05,where a person gets in the way
or prevents the administrationof law or other governmental
(02:49):
function.
And as much as this was donepost-investigation you can make
the argument that it didn't inany way interfere.
Therefore it didn't rise to thelevel of interfering with a
police investigation that hewould be charged with a crime.
That being said, and as much asthe mayor clearly has it out
for Daredevil, it would not besurprising that he would be
(03:14):
charged with such a crime, but Idon't think he would be
convicted of such a crime.
Joshua Gilliland (03:19):
We then get the bully club to the police
officer's face, which, whiletherapeutic and one could argue
that police officer clearlydeserved it.
You don't go around doing thatto police officers.
Your Honor, what legal issuescould arise from the bully club
(03:39):
to the face?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (03:40):
Yeah, new York has several, as do a
lot of states enhancement crimeswhere the person that is being
assaulted results in a bump up.
So there are bus drivers.
I guess two years ago theyadded judges, which was nice.
So if you attacked a judge,again it was a bump up.
(04:03):
So sometimes an assault thatmight be a misdemeanor assault
would become a Class E felony.
The statute which was mostapplicable to this case was
120.08 of the New York's penallaw, which is assault on a peace
officer, police officer,firefighter or other emergency
(04:25):
medical professional and this isbasically a serious assault of
a police officer and it doesbump it up to all the way up to
a class C felony because of thatspecial enhancement and by
being a class C violent felonythe defendant would be subject
(04:45):
to a penalty of three and a halfto 15 years depending on the
record and priors that thatperson had.
There's also aggravated assaultupon a police officer, which is
a second bump up which makes ita B felony and this is with
(05:07):
intent to cause physical injury,serious physical injury.
He does cause such injury bymeans of a deadly weapon or
dangerous instrument, which doessay that a billy club and those
kinds of things can qualify asa dangerous instrument.
So that would bump it all theway up to a class B B, as in boy
(05:35):
felony, and the maximum for a Bfelony is up to 25 years in
prison.
So it would be the twoenhancements both using the
dangerous instrument and thefact that the victim was a
police officer would bump it up.
So we get two bump ups.
Joshua Gilliland (05:48):
Gabby, any additional thoughts on the
incident in the muses layer?
Gaby Martin (05:55):
Well, what I thought was interesting when I
saw this on the notes is, youknow, because you have him
acting or I guess, criticalinterfering you will in the
investigation in two ways.
Right, because he's he's actingas daredevil where he goes in
into muses layer, but there'salso the questioning, um, of
(06:15):
white tiger's needs, right, andhe's really kind of acting as an
investigator there, right, he'sasking her specific questions
about what happened, about theincident, and to me that was
more, you know, like in the roleof.
Is he acting as a, as aninvestigator, a private
(06:36):
investigator, a police officer?
Obviously he.
I think he's most likelyinterfering with the
investigation because eventhough the police had left, um,
I did note that the crime scenetape was still up.
So it would, you could make anargument that the investigation
is still ongoing.
They're still, you know theymay have left.
(06:57):
Clearly the police officer cameback, right, and they're
monitoring the scene, so it'snot like it's been abandoned, um
, and clearly all the drawingsare still there, like they had
not secured any of that intoevidence, right, which is very
weird to me that they just, Iguess she just picked up the
like little piece of thing withblood and she's like, oh yeah,
I'll just leave all the papershere.
(07:19):
Um, so I definitely think he'sguilty of the government, you
know, probably obstructing theinvestigation.
But I think we could argue hisrole as a quote unquote
investigator asking thosequestions.
He could be in some form stillrepresenting the Ayala's in
(07:41):
maybe a civil suit of some kindthe Ayala's in maybe a civil
suit of some kind, and so he'sasking that as their lawyer to
understand what happened to her,because this is his client who
was put in jeopardy.
So, even though it seems like amore investigator role that
could be watching it back, I waslike that's probably he's
representing them in still somecapacity.
(08:02):
The family.
Judge Matthew Scia (08:04):
Additionally , the way the New York Police
Department works is the initialpolice on the scene are not
going to do other than securingthe scene, making sure no one is
in any kind of serious injuryand then calling the appropriate
agencies if there are peoplethat are injured and, of course,
doing any kind of emergencycare that's needed.
(08:27):
They aren't going to be theones that are going to do the
gathering of the evidence forfuture crimes.
That's another unit of the NYPD, so they will put up tape.
They will stay on the sceneuntil that other unit gets there
, but the evidence collectionunit, the ECU, will then arrive
on the scene and they're theones that take the pictures,
(08:49):
swab fingerprints, look for DNAand do all of that, and it's a
separate unit that haveexpertise in that collection.
And clearly he would betrespassing, in addition to
possibly the obstruction ofgovernmental administration,
because you can't just cross thepolice tape without the
(09:09):
permission of the authoritiesreading or looking at paper.
Joshua Gilliland (09:27):
I'm not sure if they've done that in the
prior three seasons before.
In the comic, daredevil canread by tracing his finger over
the printed page and feeling theletters on the page, which they
haven't I.
I don't think they've done andthey have done it, I just missed
it.
But the same would work withdrawings or paintings, and so
(09:48):
the fact he's using that skillover the paintings and
recognizing his girlfriend inthe artwork was impressive,
because he suddenly goes, herealizes, uh, oh, suddenly goes.
Gaby Martin (10:07):
He realizes, oh, very quickly that, like it's a
drawing of his girlfriend andwhich clues him on on the the
rescue that would need to takeplace I'd be curious if, if I'm
I don't know any people who areblind, um, but if that's a just
feature of some forms ofblindness, because I remember
with the Hawkeye series they didan incredible job representing
(10:30):
deafness in various capacities.
So if they have somebody who isa coordinator on, or a
consultant who's advising themon this, on, you know, not just
kind of you know, walking aroundpretending, I guess, to play a
blind person, but really kind ofembodying that role.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (10:48):
And they also, you know, kind of
brought home in the shower scenewith his hands caressing her
face and kind of getting thatmental imprint that you know,
people have seen blind peopleable to touch someone's face to
see what they look like or torecognize people that they have
met before.
You know, the being able totake it off the printed pages is
(11:12):
clearly a super enhancementthat Daredevil has.
That I don't like Gabrielle, Idon't know if any blind person
would have that ability.
Uh, you know the.
The paint some of it was, um,uh, you know, a little thick so
you could feel it.
You know, daredevil clearlyhaving the ability to even do
(11:34):
printed pages, as we've seen incomics, uh, you know is is a
real superpower and just welldone, and it's not just the beat
up the bad guy.
Joshua Gilliland (11:46):
There's actually detective work taking
place and questions being askedand analysis to figure out
what's happening, and that'sjust nice to see because it's
not intellectually lazy of.
We just need fast cars andexplosions with bright colors.
This is actually.
There's meat to this, whichbrings us to one of my I don't
(12:11):
want to say favorite but mostthoughtful questions about
breaching privileges, and that'swhen can a psychotherapist
disclose a doctor-patientcommunication?
And going back to law school,there are cases with if a
therapist or a psychiatrist knewof a risk, did they have an
(12:37):
obligation to disclose or, ifnot an obligation, at least the
right to disclose?
Or did they have to keep theirmouth shut knowing that they
have a dangerous patient who'smaking claims of violence
against someone, which then goesto the issue of like.
Is it a specific thread?
(13:02):
Or is it just scene with youknow the, you know heather, with
muse, not knowing that the museis actually you know her
patient, he?
She thinks he just has atroubled young person and
eventually she realizes uh-oh.
And there are standards forwhen and it varies by state.
(13:25):
There are standards for when amental health professional has
the option to disclose adoctor-patient communication.
And your Honor it looks likeyou waxed poetic on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (13:42):
I did not.
I think this is Gabriella'swork.
Joshua Gilliland (13:46):
Oh, well done.
It's so thorough.
I thought the judge did it.
Gaby Martin (13:53):
You just take it away, yeah because I was really
fascinated by this scene,because it was like what would
have happened had she had beenable to escape.
Right, because obviouslythere's that impetus that she
has to flee.
Right, because she realizesshe's in danger, she's sitting
(14:13):
with a serial killer.
But you know, and obviously itdoesn't pan out that way.
But what if she had right?
And I think to your point, josh, psychiatrists, therapists and
mental health professionalsgenerally are in a very parallel
state to us as lawyers.
Right, like we.
You know, you think of theconfidentiality lessons from law
(14:35):
school and it's you have to.
It was something I always kindof initially struggled with in
law school, because the idea ofconfidentiality sometimes goes
against what you you want toreport, right, but you have to
in order to, you know, buildthat trust with your client to
learn their story.
(14:55):
Right, if we're talking in thecontext of, you know, criminal
defense lawyers, right, youcan't just walk up and say, yep,
he told me he did it.
Like you know, he committed toall this stuff, right?
You can't actually go up andsay, yep, he told me, he did it.
Like you know, he committed toall this stuff, right?
You can't actually go up and dothat, which is why some people
become criminal defense lawyersand some don't.
So, but mental healthprofessionals are very similar,
(15:16):
right?
Their goal is to get theirclients to tell them about their
issues, to be able to assistthem, and so, as you said,
states across the country havelaws that either require or
permit mental healthprofessionals to disclose
information about patients whobecome violent, and New York
actually has a law that wasenacted in 2013 that kind of
(15:41):
enhances their current lawregarding ability to the duty to
report, basically, and it movesit from permissive to mandatory
duty, requiring mental healthprofessionals to report when
they believe patients may pose adanger to themselves or others,
but it also protects therapistsfrom civil and criminal
(16:07):
liability for failure to reportif they act in good faith.
It also the this law, which iscalled the SAFE Act, allows law
enforcement to remove firearmsowned by patients reported to
likely be dangerous owned bypatients reported to likely be
dangerous and part of what we'retalking about, right is?
(16:35):
It dates back to theHippocratic Oath, right?
This is not something new, itis very, very old law, right?
And so again, new York has alaw under New York, section 9.46
.
It's the SAFE Act, or I shouldsay, amended under the SAFE Act,
which requires mental healthprofessionals to who have
determined that a patientpresents a serious or imminent
(16:55):
danger to himself or others, toreport the concern to state
government and not to thirdparties potentially at risk.
So they do have to report it toauthorities, not they can't go
warn.
You know, let's say, in thiscase we're talking about serial
killer.
But if you know, they know that, like a patient intends to harm
their mother or their loved one, they can't go call the loved
(17:18):
one up and say, hey, so-and-somay attack you.
Um, they have to report it toauthorities, to authorities and
they have to document theirreasons for reporting.
It has to be part of theclinical record.
And, interestingly enough, whatI found when I was looking at
this is that the New YorkPsychiatric Association I'm
sorry, the New York StatePsychiatric Association actually
(17:40):
expressed objections to thelanguage in the amended SAFE Act
.
First, they were concernedabout the breach of
confidentiality that might occurwith a report would not be
warranted because the statutefails to require the presence of
imminence in addition to thethreat of serious harm.
(18:01):
So there's not that imminentdanger component that some other
laws may have.
And they were also concernedabout potential HIPAA violations
.
So that's another whole ball ofwax that you get into when
you're talking about privacy,disclosures, right, duty to
(18:21):
treat, and that's where thatkind of other privacy concerns
come in.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (18:26):
Okay, Well said and yeah, I mean these
laws get modified after anincident.
(18:48):
One, the Red Flag Act, is thepart of the SAFE Act that was
amended later.
When you say the SAFE Act asamended, that dealt with the red
flag laws which enabled thosesame people to go before a judge
to see if a person had guns,that they would lose their
(19:09):
ability to have a license tocarry a gun in New York.
And again, that came from evenmore incidents of mass school
shootings and mass shootings.
But yeah, the SAFE Act was aresult of the murders in
Connecticut that we all know asSandy Hook.
Joshua Gilliland (19:32):
Yeah, just so there were other cases from I
remember from law school, withagain that were more like a one
person committing a murdersituation and then that allowing
the legislature to take actionfor changing the law.
(19:53):
But again, these changes andthese laws are written because
of something horrible happening.
They're not proactive.
It's very rare for legislationto be proactive.
I mean the Bill of Rights iswritten in the negative for a
reason.
I mean the Bill of Rights iswritten in the negative for a
(20:25):
reason just to make sure thatrights aren't abridged, because
it's hard to think of what arewe going to list here as
fundamental rights?
With that said, let's turn tothe next issue of the duty to
rescue.
So, generally speaking, thereis no duty to rescue, and this
is one of those things thatmakes non-lawyers freak out that
we don't have a hue and crysystem of if you see a kid
(20:47):
drowning, you have no obligationto go rescue that kid.
If you watch the child die,that just makes you a bad person
, but you're not criminally orcivilly liable for refusing to
go out and put yourself atharm's way to rescue them.
There are some exceptions,whether there's a special
(21:09):
relationship and that can bedefined in statute, like parent
to child, and there are otherexamples as well.
Uh, but with you know, you findout that your girlfriend is the
target of a serial killer.
Understandably, you one wouldgo, hey, I should take action to
(21:31):
make sure my significant otherdoes not have a horrible demise.
Uh, but I don't think there's alegal obligation to do so.
Gaby Martin (21:41):
But, gabby, you have some thoughts on this that
are in the outline and I cantell yeah I can tell it's your
style, so take it away I know Iwas like I when, when you put
generally no duty to rescue, Iwas like wait, wait a minute.
Because I, I did look it up andand it's interesting because
obviously we talk about, yes,you have maybe a moral duty to
(22:01):
rescue, absolutely, but we'rehere to talk about the law, not
you know, moral, uh, code ofethics, um, but what I was
really fascinated by, because,because I did take time to look
up the special relationshipexception and one would think,
when you talk again in kind ofnon-legal terms about a special
(22:22):
relationship, you know you wouldthink parent-child, you know,
maybe spouses, you don't have aduty to rescue your spouse, your
significant other, nobody, likeif you are in any way, uh, not,
parent, child, you do not haveto rescue that person.
You do have maybe a moral,moral duty, um, and it makes you
(22:44):
a horrible spouse.
But you know, um, butspecifically applicable here, um
, is that there is an exceptionif you create the peril right,
there's two big exceptions andthat is if you interfere with a
(23:14):
duty to rescue because he letMuse escape by, not for some
reason.
Everyone in this universe isexceptionally durable, and
particularly Muse, who got beataround in the prior episode and
shows up to heather's couchlooking absolutely fine, um,
(23:36):
with not a scratch on him.
Uh, matt has scratched, likehis back is messed up, right,
but this kid is totally fine andhe got, like, got the living
daylights kicked out of him, um,but daredevil didn't, I guess,
execute him completely, I don'tknow.
Um, so by letting him escape,did he create a need for a
(23:59):
rescue, which is the exception,one of the exceptions right to a
duty to rescue, or lack thereof, um, which is a situation.
When an individual creates asituation which puts another in
peril, it creates a duty torescue that individual.
So you could argue.
Joshua Gilliland (24:22):
in this case, daredevil may be on the hook,
but that requires with theletting Muse escape so that's a,
he is rescued Was not securinghim negligent?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (24:35):
I guess would have to be the first
level issue.
And I can't, also on a Plessyargument.
It's very unforeseeable that hethen would end up if he didn't
take care to secure him, that hewould then end up on his
girlfriend's couch um to, to, tohave therapy.
(24:58):
So I think it's a little bitfar removed, but it's a.
It's a wonderful exercise andhe did at least have a bloody
nose yeah, so he for which hecould then paint yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's troubling on somany levels.
Joshua Gilliland (25:15):
So I'm glad you're not saying that there was
a duty to commit a summaryexecution, because I'd be very
concerned about you if you feltthat way.
Matt should really be goingfull Punisher right now.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (25:29):
Yeah, that's what I'm catching it, as
you know what was the failure tosecure him.
But you know, at that point hewas very concerned with making
sure that the victim was stillalive.
So I really don't think he inany way acted negligently after
beating him to that level tothink that it would be
(25:51):
foreseeable that he would beable to to walk away from that
uh and and then end up in hisgirlfriend's office.
Gaby Martin (25:57):
So you know, it's a little bit, but but I get like
like you know that that's one ofthe reasons for this kind of
show is to take some of thestuff to the extremes for the
fun of it, yeah, and I mean heshould have seen that somebody
taking that many hits would getback up again if we assume in
this universe that Bullseye waspushed over a building that was
(26:20):
quite hot and somehow magicallysurvived to stand trial like
magically.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (26:29):
So everybody, all the main
characters have a lot of hitpoints to bring back to Dungeons
and Dragons, includingDaredevil, who really takes a
beating and keeps on going timeafter time himself a lot of plot
armor you know now.
Joshua Gilliland (26:51):
I don't remember from the prior seasons
of Stilt man was killed or not.
Who made the initial body armorfor daredevil and that at least
had you know.
Reduce the stab wounds, becauseat the beginning of this show
bullseye hits them I don't knownine, ten times with knives and
(27:13):
if they're just sticking out ofthe body armor, that's just
pointy and uncomfortable, asopposed to you have nine stab
wounds, which your girlfriend'snever asked you about.
All the all the scars on yourchest from the times you've been
stabbed, uh.
(27:33):
So again, maybe it's just thickpadding, uh, so maybe that's
how matt can get away with uhhaving less stab wounds and
other bruises, uh, or justbruises, as opposed to uh other
blunt force trauma.
Compared to the artist who hasbasically a canvas mask like
(27:57):
there there's, that's notadamantium, like that's uh,
that's a lot to get back up Ialso was.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (28:05):
It was an excellent nurse yes true,
yeah I.
Gaby Martin (28:09):
I also did appreciate how he had his, his
outfit, like ready to roll uhwith him, so that he was like,
yep, I got it like I thoughtthat was uh pretty, pretty funny
and very, very comic book lit.
He's like ta-da um by the nextscene yes, very superman, very
super.
Joshua Gilliland (28:30):
There's an Archer episode with him suiting
up and forcing someone to watchhim, which made me think of you
know.
It's like, oh God, don't makeme watch you suit up again, like
that was my reaction to thepsychiatrist is tied up and
watch me get into costume, andif it's a 15 minute uh exercise,
(28:54):
all right.
Now we get into self-defense,because there's a lot of
self-defense that happens herein defense of others.
So how to break this down?
We have matt murdoch asdaredevil going to save his
significant other from the muse.
Her name's Heather I'm blankingon her last name and Heather
(29:18):
Glenn, dr Glenn, Dr Glenn.
She does have a name.
I just want to be clear.
I just remember Heather.
So Dr Glenn, defense of othersshould be kicking in.
We also have Dr Glenn pick in.
Defense of others should bekicking in.
We also have Dr Glenn pick upMuse's sidearm and use it to
(29:39):
dispatch Muse while Daredevil isin combat with Muse protecting
her from Muse.
Your Honor, this looks likeyour style of notes.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (29:57):
It was yours from last time and I just
kind of pasted it over becausewe have discussed justification
before in defense of others ifthey're in eminent danger of
harm themselves and likewise toprotect yourself by using
(30:18):
reasonable force in order tostop the attack of you or others
.
So as long as what you do isdeemed to be reasonable, you
would be justified in thataction.
And here you know the serialkiller who has killed others and
Heather is well aware that hehas killed others and he was
(30:39):
also basically trying to killher.
She absolutely would bejustified to put down the muse
by using deadly force, becausehe was using deadly force
against all of them.
And Matt, likewise, would beprotecting an individual and was
(31:03):
using a reasonable degree offorce in order to stop muse from
continuing in his duty.
So I think both of them wouldbe able to avail themselves of
the justification defenses ifthey were so charged and I don't
really see them ever beingcharged, but if they were
charged that they would havethose defenses available to them
.
Joshua Gilliland (31:24):
And, if I remember correctly, there's a
provision for self-defense ifyou're trying to escape a
kidnapping or false imprisonmentsituation.
I don't remember how it'sworded exactly, but she was like
bound and and restrained andcut, so she is bleeding out.
(31:46):
So, like there, there are otherfactors at play that I think
would go to the justificationfor her to pull the trigger to
stop Muse.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (31:56):
Yeah, and in section 2b of 3515,
dealing with justification if heor she reasonably believes that
such other person is committingor attempting to commit a
kidnapping, forcible rape,forcible criminal sexual act or
robbery, he or she reasonablybelieves that such person is
committing or attempting tocommit a burglary and the
(32:18):
circumstances are such that theuse of deadly physical force is
authorized by that section.
So yes, in order to.
It wasn't even just areasonable belief that she was
being kidnapped, she was beingforcibly held against her will,
even if it was her own office.
Joshua Gilliland (32:52):
Well said, which now brings us to
threatening a journalistsomething not at all dark and
disturbing.
Gaby Martin (32:59):
Gabby, do you want to help get into what he's
actually doing, which isthreatening a journalist?
You know I worked incommunications and state
legislator.
You do talk to journalists andyou do, you know, kind of ask
them, hey, don't publish this.
Or, you know, can we work?
You know, maybe do this, butnot that you can ask Right.
(33:20):
You can always ask Right, butyou cannot do what he did, which
is say, hey, don't publish this, you know, and actively like,
threaten her.
So you can't do that.
You cannot.
You take the good with the badin state government, in any form
of government, right, that iswhat the press is there for, um,
(33:43):
and so we obviously have, uh,the first amendment which
protects the freedom of thepress.
Right, and I thought it wasinteresting.
I went back and watched thisepisode and I hadn't clocked it
the first time I watched it, butthis is the first episode that
we do not see the BB report inthe episode, which I thought was
(34:04):
actually very chilling.
When you watch that scene it'salmost like she's been silenced
already.
So I frankly have my own issueswith how the BB report is being
done, but to not see it is, youknow kind of chilling that she
is being silenced, so um.
But you do have freedom of thepress, which, in gitlo versus
(34:27):
new york, um, the supreme courtactually held that, um that this
was back in 1925.
The supreme court held, um thatthe 14th amendment to the
constitution had extended thefirst amendment's provisions
which protect freedom of speechand freedom of the press to
apply to all governments of theUnited States.
(34:48):
So previously it was onlyapplicable to the federal
government and actions by thefederal government, but this was
the case that applied it.
Interestingly enough, dealingwith the state of Newark applied
it to actions by the state andthis is clearly within the state
.
And then you have some othercases New York versus Minnesota,
(35:09):
which rejects the notion ofprior restraint on publication
and decided that freedom ofpress applies to states via due
process clause, and New YorkTimes v Sullivan, which held
that the press is largely freefrom any adverse act or report
action if it attempts totruthfully report the news of
public concern and when the newsinvolves a public official,
(35:33):
even erroneous reportage has ahigh degree of protection.
Joshua Gilliland (35:40):
A lot there and also brings back memories
from the first amendment class Itook, long ago and far away.
But these things are timeless.
Like this isn't a question oftime, place or manner.
Like this is I'm silencing thepress, which is a no-no, uh
(36:02):
under the constitution.
Uh, it's also fun to see whenthe court started applying the
first amendment to the statesthrough the 14th.
Uh.
Now there it's, like californiahas, uh, its equivalent of the
first Amendment.
That actually gives some morerights.
So it's, the federalconstitution is the floor, not
(36:31):
the ceiling, and so differentstates can have some of them
just copy it verbatim and otherscan add other enhancements to
it.
But you can't subtract from thefederal, you can only add to it
.
Judge Matthew Sciarrin (36:40):
Likewise , new York has more protections
than the federal governmentbecause of the large amount of
media companies that are basedin New York.
There are several provisions ofNew York law that go further
than the US Constitution withregards to protection of the
press and protection of theirsources and the underlying
(37:02):
research that they do, and thatthey have a lot of protections.
My only other or I guess, toplay devil's advocate, which is
clearly fun to do in a showcalled the Daredevil that you
know, beebe, and kind of actedin an unethical journalistic
manner on various occasions,including when, you know, she
(37:27):
got this aide drunk and high toget information from him, and it
was an aggressive negotiationto use another Star Wars term
with regards to getting her tonot do something, kind of
calling on some of the badthings that she did to maybe
(37:47):
level the playing ground.
So you know, whereas he clearlydid not have the right to stop
her First Amendment rights, Ithink he was also playing at a
very high level in as much aswhat was done to him in the
prior episodes as well.
Joshua Gilliland (38:06):
Oh, he has a right to be mad at her Like.
I absolutely do not question of.
We're friends.
You wrote this hit piece.
You twisted things radicallyout of context after you kept me
out late, got me drunk and, youknow, high on a controlled
substance.
We're not friends anymore.
Like that could have had a verydifferent conversation, like
(38:28):
the day after that article.
It's like you torpedoed a goodpolicy.
You exploited me.
I'm angry at you.
I will never see you again.
As opposed to the godfatherapproach of you know extracting
revenge that way.
Gaby Martin (38:47):
Well, he does have soprano ties, yeah, yeah yeah, I
was gonna say, and you know itis.
The thing is like beingsomething being off the record,
right, that doesn't actuallyexist.
Nothing is technically off therecord, as much as you would
wish and hope it would be.
You know, that's where you haveleveraging relationships with
(39:11):
journalists and really you can,you know, people that you may
trust more than others to, youknow kind of give background to.
But just saying something's offthe record does not mean
they're going to not report it.
And you know, yes, you can havekind of discussions with
(39:31):
journalists and kind of try to,you know, have compromises and
how things are covered, but youcannot actively stop them from
reporting what they want to do.
Joshua Gilliland (39:46):
It's one thing to go.
I'm going to give you anexclusive if you wait 72 hours,
you know, and that sort ofgamesmanship.
So that way the narrative canbe controlled.
Opposed to I'm just going tothreaten the press.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (40:01):
Opposed to I'm just going to threaten
the press or take away theirpress credentials to cover
certain events or pressconferences or other such
actions if they don't report ina favorable manner.
Joshua Gilliland (40:13):
Yeah, all bad, all bad, Not how we roll, which
brings us to the closing scene,which is it's kingpin being
kingpin.
But I I have questions about.
We see it's a conspiracy tocommit murder and on one level
(40:36):
it looks like vanessa and thetracksuit crime boss conspiring
to kill Fisk.
But then it made me wonder wasthis Fisk and Vanessa conspiring
to kill the mob boss in atracksuit, or did Vanessa and
the tracksuit mobster conspireto kill Fisk?
(40:58):
And Fisk is just really smartand was ready for it.
So there's a, I think, threeoptions here.
But this is conspiracy tocommit murder and it can.
It's a weird one because ifit's in the second category of
(41:18):
Vanessa and Fisk doing this likedouble blind, you know we're
going to set up this mobster somy bodyguard can take them down.
That's still a conspiracy tocommit murder and you still have
to get rid of the body and it'sin a restaurant that's empty.
Who would like to help addressthis?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (41:52):
Let's start with first thing.
I choose choice B.
Who would like to help addressthis?
They set up Luca, but it's verypossible that Kingpin, through
other means, found out aboutthis hit.
But I really believe that Fiskand Vanessa got together on this
.
But in any event it's still aconspiracy and in New York under
(42:14):
Section 105.15 of the penal lawit would be conspiracy in the
second degree.
A person is guilty ofconspiracy in the second degree
when, with intent, that conductconstituting a class A felony in
this case that class A felonywould be murder in the second
degree.
He agrees with one or morepersons to engage in or cause
(42:39):
the performance of such conductand that is a Class B felony.
The murder itself is a Class A1felony.
It's common law murder, murderin the second degree with intent
to cause the death of another.
He causes the death of suchperson or a third person and
clearly the person who pulledthe trigger was acting at the
(43:01):
behest of the kingpin.
The triggerman would be guiltyof murder in the second degree
and Fisk and Vanessa could befound guilty of conspiracy in
the second degree If they bothconspired.
Joshua Gilliland (43:19):
If only one conspired, then only one of them
would be guilty of that crimeuh, this is either really
disturbing and creative couplestherapy or, um, just just evil
for the sake of being evil.
Gaby Martin (43:34):
But uh, gabby your thoughts I'm torn because I when
saw it, I had the inversereaction.
When I saw it, initially Ithought it was a plot with the
two of them to kill Luca, butthen when I watched it back
again and I just can't help butthinking it's, you know, fisk
(44:02):
knowing about it, or maybe theway I thought it, it wasn't so
much a um, him being very clever, almost like he ran a test
right and that was.
And potentially you could haveanother crime here that I just
thought of, which.
Which is he?
He mentioned earlier in theepisode, uh, to his bodyguard or
(44:24):
staff member, whatever thisman's title is, within the
administration, um, so made uptitle Um.
But he says that he now has theresources, um, of the, uh, the
office of the mayor, right, andwe talked about previously.
You know corruption and youknow misuse of conflicts of
(44:47):
interest and misuse ofgovernmental resources, and he
could potentially have used thatto find this plot out.
And he certainly could justhave gone to a restaurant alone
and told Vanessa he was going tothe restaurant alone to see
(45:09):
what happened, to see if shewould be loyal to him or not.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (45:14):
And Buck and Kingpin actually have
that discussion.
As to the, you know, the usingof the governmental resources in
a non-governmental manner, inthe office they highlighted that
issue earlier on.
With regards to this, he couldhave been very, very well
(45:37):
prepared, having dropped thathint to Vanessa.
But my feeling on therelationship with Vanessa and
Kingpin, which goes back to theother episodes dealing with
Vanessa not really feeling thatshe was in danger because of
Kingpin's love for her, thatlove, as weird as their
(46:01):
relationship is, is reallyalmost set in stone in the
comics.
So it would be a big jump tohave Vanessa backstabbing the
kingpin, not that it couldn'thappen, but I see it more as she
might have thought of it forthat brief second.
She might have encouraged Lucato do it for that brief second.
(46:21):
She might have encouraged Lucato do it for that brief second.
But I think then she goes toKingpin and says he's coming for
you, but we'll see in the lastepisode I have a feeling.
Joshua Gilliland (46:35):
Yeah, their relationship is either really
strong or it's going to havesome really complex therapy
issues with.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (46:42):
Right, and if she knew where Adam was
and what he had been doing toAdam, then I could see her doing
this and maybe she did find out.
But you know, that to me wouldhave given Vanessa the push to
maybe do this on her own, totake out Absent.
Knowing the situation with Adam, I don't know if she would do
(47:06):
it yet that might be the dominothat launches it down the road.
Joshua Gilliland (47:14):
Good thinking, good thinking, fascinating.
So a lot there, gab gabby.
Anything else to add?
So, pivoting back to our notes,that looks like every issue, uh
, for this episode.
I again I thought this was afantastic episode.
(47:37):
Uh, just going back to the fightwell choreographographed, it's
bright light, so it's not likethey're hiding in the dark for a
fight scene.
Whoever the stunt people are,look good.
We haven't seen anything asbrutal as the grappling hook get
shot through somebody'sshoulder before.
(47:58):
So Daredevil might have a ruleagainst killing, but apparently
maiming's on the table, uh,which, again, he did that to
keep muse from going after, uh,you know the doctor.
So I don't I think it'sjustified.
Uh, lethal force would havebeen justified.
(48:20):
So so this while violent andit's like wow, he's going to
have to clean that really well.
So that way there isn't anyevidence of the muse on it.
I do also wonder about, withhim taking his glove off at
times, if he's left fingerprintsof himself that could be used
(48:43):
to identify him at the at thescene I mean, I think with that
the, I would say, because Ithought about that as well.
Gaby Martin (48:54):
But then you have the and maybe this is where,
like the tension is, the highestperson in office knows who he
is.
So there's a kind of and.
And what I personally haveloved about the last couple
episodes um is the cuttingbetween um daredevil and fisk um
(49:16):
, as kind of two sides of a coin, um, and it's, you know,
cutting as one makes an actionand it's cut, you know, back and
forth between them, um, and itjust really shows how
interconnected they are um andhow parallel they are um.
So that's what I've personallyloved and I would say you know
(49:38):
there's, it's that kind oftension between them.
Joshua Gilliland (49:41):
Why would you know this kind of risk that
coming out um yeah, because heyou know what does he have to
lose if he discloses theidentity of daredevil and it's
like how did you know that wouldbe the?
Because it goes to his guiltfrom the prior crimes that he's
(50:04):
somehow out from.
Like he should still be rottingin a prison cell.
So how he gets out is still amystery to me.
Uh, despite all the weird stufffrom uh season three of him
gathering information on peopleand using it to to exploit them
and try to cheat the system, buthe should still be rotting in a
(50:30):
cell federally, not just state,state and federal convictions
there to put him away.
Gaby Martin (50:44):
Yeah, I mean he should also be dead.
He was shot in the eye Like heshould be dead as well.
But again, and maybe that'swhere Daredevil's like not being
more carefree with breakingpeople's elbows elbows and like
beating, you know, people, um,within an inch of their life
(51:07):
because people clearly haveseveral more inches of their
life than normal uh, reality, uh, because everybody is
incredibly durable, uh, in thisuniverse, and what would kill a
person, um, or severelyincapacitate them in our reality
does not seem to exist in theshow, and the only thing that
(51:27):
seems to actually kill you islike a bullet to the head, and
sometimes even then, like itdepends.
So you know.
Joshua Gilliland (51:38):
Merely a flesh wound.
He has a very thick skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (51:42):
In soap operasas, superhero shows,
comic books and star wars.
Uh, they're not necessarilydead until they've, you know,
burned the pier yeah, yeah, butit's from the hawkeye series.
Joshua Gilliland (51:56):
Like there's video evidence of him planning a
crime with bishop, like that.
Like you don't walk that offeasily.
Uh, like, so did that getsuppressed somehow?
Uh, because it is a partyadmission.
Uh, even though it's without awarrant, it's still a party
(52:17):
admission, unless there's fruitof the poisonous tree somehow,
and I haven't watched that for awhile.
But uh, moreover, we we do see,uh, kate's near stepdad, uh,
that he was in in this episode,one of the prior episodes.
Gaby Martin (52:33):
So, again, subtle callbacks that they're doing
yeah, and I think it speaks tothe kind of um, you know, power,
uh, not dynamics, but how powerexists in the universe, and
that you know, just this kingpinwas able to be elected to mayor
, these other kind of shadowyfigures and and characters are
(52:57):
in the the fact that he's atthis private fundraising gala of
elite.
What they very clearlydemonstrate is, you know, kind
of New York's movers and shakers, right Like the people who
really decide power in New York,and he's a part of this.
(53:18):
So you know, I think that goesto show like what this universe
actually is, at least, at leastin the, the new york city.
Who knows elsewhere?
Joshua Gilliland (53:29):
yeah, it's.
How did barton react to this?
Did he just stay in upstate?
And you know well that'sunfortunate.
How, how?
How do you not take action withthat?
I'm not saying that a mayoralrace is an avengers local threat
.
However, you think others wouldget involved.
(53:50):
But then it's a matter ofbudget, because we're not going
to see spider-man and hawkeyeappear.
Uh, that's just.
You can't have them all gettogether in daredevil.
Uh, as cool as it would be,it's just not going to happen.
So we're almost at the end.
So it's Sunday night when we'rerecording.
(54:11):
Tuesday we get the last episodeand then we'll be game on to
record our conclusion to theseries.
And I'm glad to hear there'sbeen casting for season two.
Now, gabby, I haven't seen this.
Who's been?
Who's been announced?
Gaby Martin (54:28):
I believe, um I saw matthew lillard has been uh
cast and I I particularly notedit because I I don't remember
the couple other actors um thatwere were cast um, but I do
recall that, seeing that theseveral that I I did see were
all cast as political opponentsto wilson fisk.
(54:50):
So, um, that'll be interestingto see um how that plays out and
where, where it ends up um, forclearly he's he's going to stay
mayor in some capacity or stayin the political space, um, if
he's getting political opponentsuh next season.
Joshua Gilliland (55:09):
So yeah, there's still the city council,
so, uh, who might not be?
We're just gonna go fix up redhook, like might be not okay
with some of them, so all right.
Well, that said, thank youeveryone for tuning in.
Wherever you are, stay safe,stay healthy and stay geeky,
(55:30):
take care.
Hello everyone , my name is Joshua Gilliland,
one of the founding attorneys ofthe Legal Geeks.
We are here for the penultimateepisode of Daredevil Born Again
.
Art for art's sake.
It's been a long weekend.
Here we are to discuss thisfantastic show with Gabby Martin
and retired judge MatthewSherino.
(00:27):
Gabby, how you doing Doing?
Gaby Martin (00:30):
good this was, I will say I feel like was the
biggest return to where theNetflix show was in terms of
just the sheer violence and, inmy opinion, scariness, um, but
um, I I loved it.
So it's great and I'm excitedto see where it all ends up.
And you know, we already havecasting news for season two um,
(00:55):
new casting news every day, um,so that's exciting too fantastic
, your honor it's nice to seeDaredevil born again and back in
the red suit and the devil ofHell's Kitchen to be front and
center.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (01:14):
And, as Gabby said, the violence level
was clearly at the levels of theoriginal Netflix show.
Joshua Gilliland (01:22):
Yes, it was.
And boy and boy, howdy was itglorious?
Uh, just, you know, the firsttime around they had
exceptionally well choreographedfights.
That continues here and the uhwriting a compelling story where
you care about the charactersoutside of the super suit and
(01:42):
being able to have some, uh,extreme fighting.
I'm talking about thecharacters outside of the super
suit and being able to have someextreme fighting.
I'm talking about the grapplinghook that it's like Whoa,
that's impressive.
But people aren't here just tohear us nerds talk about how
much we love it.
They're here to hear us talkabout our legal analysis and
(02:03):
there's a lot to unpack in thisepisode.
So we've all made notes.
And first is did Daredevilinterfere with a police
investigation?
And then I'm referring to himgoing to the crime scene after
the officers have left.
And your Honor, it looks likeyou have some thoughts on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (02:26):
In as much as after the officers left.
The officers would have alreadygathered what they kind of
needed, and so it might not riseto the level of obstruction of
governmental administrationwhich is a misdemeanor crime in
New York under Section 195.05,where a person gets in the way
or prevents the administrationof law or other governmental
(02:49):
function.
And as much as this was donepost-investigation you can make
the argument that it didn't inany way interfere.
Therefore it didn't rise to thelevel of interfering with a
police investigation that hewould be charged with a crime.
That being said, and as much asthe mayor clearly has it out
for Daredevil, it would not besurprising that he would be
(03:14):
charged with such a crime, but Idon't think he would be
convicted of such a crime.
Joshua Gilliland (03:19):
We then get the bully club to the police
officer's face, which, whiletherapeutic and one could argue
that police officer clearlydeserved it.
You don't go around doing thatto police officers.
Your Honor, what legal issuescould arise from the bully club
(03:39):
to the face?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (03:40):
Yeah, new York has several, as do a
lot of states enhancement crimeswhere the person that is being
assaulted results in a bump up.
So there are bus drivers.
I guess two years ago theyadded judges, which was nice.
So if you attacked a judge,again it was a bump up.
(04:03):
So sometimes an assault thatmight be a misdemeanor assault
would become a Class E felony.
The statute which was mostapplicable to this case was
120.08 of the New York's penallaw, which is assault on a peace
officer, police officer,firefighter or other emergency
(04:25):
medical professional and this isbasically a serious assault of
a police officer and it doesbump it up to all the way up to
a class C felony because of thatspecial enhancement and by
being a class C violent felonythe defendant would be subject
(04:45):
to a penalty of three and a halfto 15 years depending on the
record and priors that thatperson had.
There's also aggravated assaultupon a police officer, which is
a second bump up which makes ita B felony and this is with
(05:07):
intent to cause physical injury,serious physical injury.
He does cause such injury bymeans of a deadly weapon or
dangerous instrument, which doessay that a billy club and those
kinds of things can qualify asa dangerous instrument.
So that would bump it all theway up to a class B B, as in boy
(05:35):
felony, and the maximum for a Bfelony is up to 25 years in
prison.
So it would be the twoenhancements both using the
dangerous instrument and thefact that the victim was a
police officer would bump it up.
So we get two bump ups.
Joshua Gilliland (05:48):
Gabby, any additional thoughts on the
incident in the muses layer?
Gaby Martin (05:55):
Well, what I thought was interesting when I
saw this on the notes is, youknow, because you have him
acting or I guess, criticalinterfering you will in the
investigation in two ways.
Right, because he's he's actingas daredevil where he goes in
into muses layer, but there'salso the questioning, um, of
(06:15):
white tiger's needs, right, andhe's really kind of acting as an
investigator there, right, he'sasking her specific questions
about what happened, about theincident, and to me that was
more, you know, like in the roleof.
Is he acting as a, as aninvestigator, a private
(06:36):
investigator, a police officer?
Obviously he.
I think he's most likelyinterfering with the
investigation because eventhough the police had left, um,
I did note that the crime scenetape was still up.
So it would, you could make anargument that the investigation
is still ongoing.
They're still, you know theymay have left.
(06:57):
Clearly the police officer cameback, right, and they're
monitoring the scene, so it'snot like it's been abandoned, um
, and clearly all the drawingsare still there, like they had
not secured any of that intoevidence, right, which is very
weird to me that they just, Iguess she just picked up the
like little piece of thing withblood and she's like, oh yeah,
I'll just leave all the papershere.
(07:19):
Um, so I definitely think he'sguilty of the government, you
know, probably obstructing theinvestigation.
But I think we could argue hisrole as a quote unquote
investigator asking thosequestions.
He could be in some form stillrepresenting the Ayala's in
(07:41):
maybe a civil suit of some kindthe Ayala's in maybe a civil
suit of some kind, and so he'sasking that as their lawyer to
understand what happened to her,because this is his client who
was put in jeopardy.
So, even though it seems like amore investigator role that
could be watching it back, I waslike that's probably he's
representing them in still somecapacity.
(08:02):
The family.
Judge Matthew Scia (08:04):
Additionally , the way the New York Police
Department works is the initialpolice on the scene are not
going to do other than securingthe scene, making sure no one is
in any kind of serious injuryand then calling the appropriate
agencies if there are peoplethat are injured and, of course,
doing any kind of emergencycare that's needed.
(08:27):
They aren't going to be theones that are going to do the
gathering of the evidence forfuture crimes.
That's another unit of the NYPD, so they will put up tape.
They will stay on the sceneuntil that other unit gets there
, but the evidence collectionunit, the ECU, will then arrive
on the scene and they're theones that take the pictures,
(08:49):
swab fingerprints, look for DNAand do all of that, and it's a
separate unit that haveexpertise in that collection.
And clearly he would betrespassing, in addition to
possibly the obstruction ofgovernmental administration,
because you can't just cross thepolice tape without the
(09:09):
permission of the authoritiesreading or looking at paper.
Joshua Gilliland (09:27):
I'm not sure if they've done that in the
prior three seasons before.
In the comic, daredevil canread by tracing his finger over
the printed page and feeling theletters on the page, which they
haven't I.
I don't think they've done andthey have done it, I just missed
it.
But the same would work withdrawings or paintings, and so
(09:48):
the fact he's using that skillover the paintings and
recognizing his girlfriend inthe artwork was impressive,
because he suddenly goes, herealizes, uh, oh, suddenly goes.
Gaby Martin (10:07):
He realizes, oh, very quickly that, like it's a
drawing of his girlfriend andwhich clues him on on the the
rescue that would need to takeplace I'd be curious if, if I'm
I don't know any people who areblind, um, but if that's a just
feature of some forms ofblindness, because I remember
with the Hawkeye series they didan incredible job representing
(10:30):
deafness in various capacities.
So if they have somebody who isa coordinator on, or a
consultant who's advising themon this, on, you know, not just
kind of you know, walking aroundpretending, I guess, to play a
blind person, but really kind ofembodying that role.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (10:48):
And they also, you know, kind of
brought home in the shower scenewith his hands caressing her
face and kind of getting thatmental imprint that you know,
people have seen blind peopleable to touch someone's face to
see what they look like or torecognize people that they have
met before.
You know, the being able totake it off the printed pages is
(11:12):
clearly a super enhancementthat Daredevil has.
That I don't like Gabrielle, Idon't know if any blind person
would have that ability.
Uh, you know the.
The paint some of it was, um,uh, you know, a little thick so
you could feel it.
You know, daredevil clearlyhaving the ability to even do
(11:34):
printed pages, as we've seen incomics, uh, you know is is a
real superpower and just welldone, and it's not just the beat
up the bad guy.
Joshua Gilliland (11:46):
There's actually detective work taking
place and questions being askedand analysis to figure out
what's happening, and that'sjust nice to see because it's
not intellectually lazy of.
We just need fast cars andexplosions with bright colors.
This is actually.
There's meat to this, whichbrings us to one of my I don't
(12:11):
want to say favorite but mostthoughtful questions about
breaching privileges, and that'swhen can a psychotherapist
disclose a doctor-patientcommunication?
And going back to law school,there are cases with if a
therapist or a psychiatrist knewof a risk, did they have an
(12:37):
obligation to disclose or, ifnot an obligation, at least the
right to disclose?
Or did they have to keep theirmouth shut knowing that they
have a dangerous patient who'smaking claims of violence
against someone, which then goesto the issue of like.
Is it a specific thread?
(13:02):
Or is it just scene with youknow the, you know heather, with
muse, not knowing that the museis actually you know her
patient, he?
She thinks he just has atroubled young person and
eventually she realizes uh-oh.
And there are standards forwhen and it varies by state.
(13:25):
There are standards for when amental health professional has
the option to disclose adoctor-patient communication.
And your Honor it looks likeyou waxed poetic on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (13:42):
I did not.
I think this is Gabriella'swork.
Joshua Gilliland (13:46):
Oh, well done.
It's so thorough.
I thought the judge did it.
Gaby Martin (13:53):
You just take it away, yeah because I was really
fascinated by this scene,because it was like what would
have happened had she had beenable to escape.
Right, because obviouslythere's that impetus that she
has to flee.
Right, because she realizesshe's in danger, she's sitting
(14:13):
with a serial killer.
But you know, and obviously itdoesn't pan out that way.
But what if she had right?
And I think to your point, josh, psychiatrists, therapists and
mental health professionalsgenerally are in a very parallel
state to us as lawyers.
Right, like we.
You know, you think of theconfidentiality lessons from law
(14:35):
school and it's you have to.
It was something I always kindof initially struggled with in
law school, because the idea ofconfidentiality sometimes goes
against what you you want toreport, right, but you have to
in order to, you know, buildthat trust with your client to
learn their story.
(14:55):
Right, if we're talking in thecontext of, you know, criminal
defense lawyers, right, youcan't just walk up and say, yep,
he told me he did it.
Like you know, he committed toall this stuff, right?
You can't actually go up andsay, yep, he told me, he did it.
Like you know, he committed toall this stuff, right?
You can't actually go up and dothat, which is why some people
become criminal defense lawyersand some don't.
So, but mental healthprofessionals are very similar,
(15:16):
right?
Their goal is to get theirclients to tell them about their
issues, to be able to assistthem, and so, as you said,
states across the country havelaws that either require or
permit mental healthprofessionals to disclose
information about patients whobecome violent, and New York
actually has a law that wasenacted in 2013 that kind of
(15:41):
enhances their current lawregarding ability to the duty to
report, basically, and it movesit from permissive to mandatory
duty, requiring mental healthprofessionals to report when
they believe patients may pose adanger to themselves or others,
but it also protects therapistsfrom civil and criminal
(16:07):
liability for failure to reportif they act in good faith.
It also the this law, which iscalled the SAFE Act, allows law
enforcement to remove firearmsowned by patients reported to
likely be dangerous owned bypatients reported to likely be
dangerous and part of what we'retalking about, right is?
(16:35):
It dates back to theHippocratic Oath, right?
This is not something new, itis very, very old law, right?
And so again, new York has alaw under New York, section 9.46
.
It's the SAFE Act, or I shouldsay, amended under the SAFE Act,
which requires mental healthprofessionals to who have
determined that a patientpresents a serious or imminent
(16:55):
danger to himself or others, toreport the concern to state
government and not to thirdparties potentially at risk.
So they do have to report it toauthorities, not they can't go
warn.
You know, let's say, in thiscase we're talking about serial
killer.
But if you know, they know that, like a patient intends to harm
their mother or their loved one, they can't go call the loved
(17:18):
one up and say, hey, so-and-somay attack you.
Um, they have to report it toauthorities, to authorities and
they have to document theirreasons for reporting.
It has to be part of theclinical record.
And, interestingly enough, whatI found when I was looking at
this is that the New YorkPsychiatric Association I'm
sorry, the New York StatePsychiatric Association actually
(17:40):
expressed objections to thelanguage in the amended SAFE Act
.
First, they were concernedabout the breach of
confidentiality that might occurwith a report would not be
warranted because the statutefails to require the presence of
imminence in addition to thethreat of serious harm.
(18:01):
So there's not that imminentdanger component that some other
laws may have.
And they were also concernedabout potential HIPAA violations
.
So that's another whole ball ofwax that you get into when
you're talking about privacy,disclosures, right, duty to
(18:21):
treat, and that's where thatkind of other privacy concerns
come in.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (18:26):
Okay, Well said and yeah, I mean these
laws get modified after anincident.
(18:48):
One, the Red Flag Act, is thepart of the SAFE Act that was
amended later.
When you say the SAFE Act asamended, that dealt with the red
flag laws which enabled thosesame people to go before a judge
to see if a person had guns,that they would lose their
(19:09):
ability to have a license tocarry a gun in New York.
And again, that came from evenmore incidents of mass school
shootings and mass shootings.
But yeah, the SAFE Act was aresult of the murders in
Connecticut that we all know asSandy Hook.
Joshua Gilliland (19:32):
Yeah, just so there were other cases from I
remember from law school, withagain that were more like a one
person committing a murdersituation and then that allowing
the legislature to take actionfor changing the law.
(19:53):
But again, these changes andthese laws are written because
of something horrible happening.
They're not proactive.
It's very rare for legislationto be proactive.
I mean the Bill of Rights iswritten in the negative for a
reason.
I mean the Bill of Rights iswritten in the negative for a
(20:25):
reason just to make sure thatrights aren't abridged, because
it's hard to think of what arewe going to list here as
fundamental rights?
With that said, let's turn tothe next issue of the duty to
rescue.
So, generally speaking, thereis no duty to rescue, and this
is one of those things thatmakes non-lawyers freak out that
we don't have a hue and crysystem of if you see a kid
(20:47):
drowning, you have no obligationto go rescue that kid.
If you watch the child die,that just makes you a bad person
, but you're not criminally orcivilly liable for refusing to
go out and put yourself atharm's way to rescue them.
There are some exceptions,whether there's a special
(21:09):
relationship and that can bedefined in statute, like parent
to child, and there are otherexamples as well.
Uh, but with you know, you findout that your girlfriend is the
target of a serial killer.
Understandably, you one wouldgo, hey, I should take action to
(21:31):
make sure my significant otherdoes not have a horrible demise.
Uh, but I don't think there's alegal obligation to do so.
Gaby Martin (21:41):
But, gabby, you have some thoughts on this that
are in the outline and I cantell yeah I can tell it's your
style, so take it away I know Iwas like I when, when you put
generally no duty to rescue, Iwas like wait, wait a minute.
Because I, I did look it up andand it's interesting because
obviously we talk about, yes,you have maybe a moral duty to
(22:01):
rescue, absolutely, but we'rehere to talk about the law, not
you know, moral, uh, code ofethics, um, but what I was
really fascinated by, because,because I did take time to look
up the special relationshipexception and one would think,
when you talk again in kind ofnon-legal terms about a special
(22:22):
relationship, you know you wouldthink parent-child, you know,
maybe spouses, you don't have aduty to rescue your spouse, your
significant other, nobody, likeif you are in any way, uh, not,
parent, child, you do not haveto rescue that person.
You do have maybe a moral,moral duty, um, and it makes you
(22:44):
a horrible spouse.
But you know, um, butspecifically applicable here, um
, is that there is an exceptionif you create the peril right,
there's two big exceptions andthat is if you interfere with a
(23:14):
duty to rescue because he letMuse escape by, not for some
reason.
Everyone in this universe isexceptionally durable, and
particularly Muse, who got beataround in the prior episode and
shows up to heather's couchlooking absolutely fine, um,
(23:36):
with not a scratch on him.
Uh, matt has scratched, likehis back is messed up, right,
but this kid is totally fine andhe got, like, got the living
daylights kicked out of him, um,but daredevil didn't, I guess,
execute him completely, I don'tknow.
Um, so by letting him escape,did he create a need for a
(23:59):
rescue, which is the exception,one of the exceptions right to a
duty to rescue, or lack thereof, um, which is a situation.
When an individual creates asituation which puts another in
peril, it creates a duty torescue that individual.
So you could argue.
Joshua Gilliland (24:22):
in this case, daredevil may be on the hook,
but that requires with theletting Muse escape so that's a,
he is rescued Was not securinghim negligent?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (24:35):
I guess would have to be the first
level issue.
And I can't, also on a Plessyargument.
It's very unforeseeable that hethen would end up if he didn't
take care to secure him, that hewould then end up on his
girlfriend's couch um to, to, tohave therapy.
(24:58):
So I think it's a little bitfar removed, but it's a.
It's a wonderful exercise andhe did at least have a bloody
nose yeah, so he for which hecould then paint yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's troubling on somany levels.
Joshua Gilliland (25:15):
So I'm glad you're not saying that there was
a duty to commit a summaryexecution, because I'd be very
concerned about you if you feltthat way.
Matt should really be goingfull Punisher right now.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (25:29):
Yeah, that's what I'm catching it, as
you know what was the failure tosecure him.
But you know, at that point hewas very concerned with making
sure that the victim was stillalive.
So I really don't think he inany way acted negligently after
beating him to that level tothink that it would be
(25:51):
foreseeable that he would beable to to walk away from that
uh and and then end up in hisgirlfriend's office.
Gaby Martin (25:57):
So you know, it's a little bit, but but I get like
like you know that that's one ofthe reasons for this kind of
show is to take some of thestuff to the extremes for the
fun of it, yeah, and I mean heshould have seen that somebody
taking that many hits would getback up again if we assume in
this universe that Bullseye waspushed over a building that was
(26:20):
quite hot and somehow magicallysurvived to stand trial like
magically.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (26:29):
So everybody, all the main
characters have a lot of hitpoints to bring back to Dungeons
and Dragons, includingDaredevil, who really takes a
beating and keeps on going timeafter time himself a lot of plot
armor you know now.
Joshua Gilliland (26:51):
I don't remember from the prior seasons
of Stilt man was killed or not.
Who made the initial body armorfor daredevil and that at least
had you know.
Reduce the stab wounds, becauseat the beginning of this show
bullseye hits them I don't knownine, ten times with knives and
(27:13):
if they're just sticking out ofthe body armor, that's just
pointy and uncomfortable, asopposed to you have nine stab
wounds, which your girlfriend'snever asked you about.
All the all the scars on yourchest from the times you've been
stabbed, uh.
(27:33):
So again, maybe it's just thickpadding, uh, so maybe that's
how matt can get away with uhhaving less stab wounds and
other bruises, uh, or justbruises, as opposed to uh other
blunt force trauma.
Compared to the artist who hasbasically a canvas mask like
(27:57):
there there's, that's notadamantium, like that's uh,
that's a lot to get back up Ialso was.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (28:05):
It was an excellent nurse yes true,
yeah I.
Gaby Martin (28:09):
I also did appreciate how he had his, his
outfit, like ready to roll uhwith him, so that he was like,
yep, I got it like I thoughtthat was uh pretty, pretty funny
and very, very comic book lit.
He's like ta-da um by the nextscene yes, very superman, very
super.
Joshua Gilliland (28:30):
There's an Archer episode with him suiting
up and forcing someone to watchhim, which made me think of you
know.
It's like, oh God, don't makeme watch you suit up again, like
that was my reaction to thepsychiatrist is tied up and
watch me get into costume, andif it's a 15 minute uh exercise,
(28:54):
all right.
Now we get into self-defense,because there's a lot of
self-defense that happens herein defense of others.
So how to break this down?
We have matt murdoch asdaredevil going to save his
significant other from the muse.
Her name's Heather I'm blankingon her last name and Heather
(29:18):
Glenn, dr Glenn, Dr Glenn.
She does have a name.
I just want to be clear.
I just remember Heather.
So Dr Glenn, defense of othersshould be kicking in.
We also have Dr Glenn pick in.
Defense of others should bekicking in.
We also have Dr Glenn pick upMuse's sidearm and use it to
(29:39):
dispatch Muse while Daredevil isin combat with Muse protecting
her from Muse.
Your Honor, this looks likeyour style of notes.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (29:57):
It was yours from last time and I just
kind of pasted it over becausewe have discussed justification
before in defense of others ifthey're in eminent danger of
harm themselves and likewise toprotect yourself by using
(30:18):
reasonable force in order tostop the attack of you or others
.
So as long as what you do isdeemed to be reasonable, you
would be justified in thataction.
And here you know the serialkiller who has killed others and
Heather is well aware that hehas killed others and he was
(30:39):
also basically trying to killher.
She absolutely would bejustified to put down the muse
by using deadly force, becausehe was using deadly force
against all of them.
And Matt, likewise, would beprotecting an individual and was
(31:03):
using a reasonable degree offorce in order to stop muse from
continuing in his duty.
So I think both of them wouldbe able to avail themselves of
the justification defenses ifthey were so charged and I don't
really see them ever beingcharged, but if they were
charged that they would havethose defenses available to them
.
Joshua Gilliland (31:24):
And, if I remember correctly, there's a
provision for self-defense ifyou're trying to escape a
kidnapping or false imprisonmentsituation.
I don't remember how it'sworded exactly, but she was like
bound and and restrained andcut, so she is bleeding out.
(31:46):
So, like there, there are otherfactors at play that I think
would go to the justificationfor her to pull the trigger to
stop Muse.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (31:56):
Yeah, and in section 2b of 3515,
dealing with justification if heor she reasonably believes that
such other person is committingor attempting to commit a
kidnapping, forcible rape,forcible criminal sexual act or
robbery, he or she reasonablybelieves that such person is
committing or attempting tocommit a burglary and the
(32:18):
circumstances are such that theuse of deadly physical force is
authorized by that section.
So yes, in order to.
It wasn't even just areasonable belief that she was
being kidnapped, she was beingforcibly held against her will,
even if it was her own office.
Joshua Gilliland (32:52):
Well said, which now brings us to
threatening a journalistsomething not at all dark and
disturbing.
Gaby Martin (32:59):
Gabby, do you want to help get into what he's
actually doing, which isthreatening a journalist?
You know I worked incommunications and state
legislator.
You do talk to journalists andyou do, you know, kind of ask
them, hey, don't publish this.
Or, you know, can we work?
You know, maybe do this, butnot that you can ask Right.
(33:20):
You can always ask Right, butyou cannot do what he did, which
is say, hey, don't publish this, you know, and actively like,
threaten her.
So you can't do that.
You cannot.
You take the good with the badin state government, in any form
of government, right, that iswhat the press is there for, um,
(33:43):
and so we obviously have, uh,the first amendment which
protects the freedom of thepress.
Right, and I thought it wasinteresting.
I went back and watched thisepisode and I hadn't clocked it
the first time I watched it, butthis is the first episode that
we do not see the BB report inthe episode, which I thought was
(34:04):
actually very chilling.
When you watch that scene it'salmost like she's been silenced
already.
So I frankly have my own issueswith how the BB report is being
done, but to not see it is, youknow kind of chilling that she
is being silenced, so um.
But you do have freedom of thepress, which, in gitlo versus
(34:27):
new york, um, the supreme courtactually held that, um that this
was back in 1925.
The supreme court held, um thatthe 14th amendment to the
constitution had extended thefirst amendment's provisions
which protect freedom of speechand freedom of the press to
apply to all governments of theUnited States.
(34:48):
So previously it was onlyapplicable to the federal
government and actions by thefederal government, but this was
the case that applied it.
Interestingly enough, dealingwith the state of Newark applied
it to actions by the state andthis is clearly within the state
.
And then you have some othercases New York versus Minnesota,
(35:09):
which rejects the notion ofprior restraint on publication
and decided that freedom ofpress applies to states via due
process clause, and New YorkTimes v Sullivan, which held
that the press is largely freefrom any adverse act or report
action if it attempts totruthfully report the news of
public concern and when the newsinvolves a public official,
(35:33):
even erroneous reportage has ahigh degree of protection.
Joshua Gilliland (35:40):
A lot there and also brings back memories
from the first amendment class Itook, long ago and far away.
But these things are timeless.
Like this isn't a question oftime, place or manner.
Like this is I'm silencing thepress, which is a no-no, uh
(36:02):
under the constitution.
Uh, it's also fun to see whenthe court started applying the
first amendment to the statesthrough the 14th.
Uh.
Now there it's, like californiahas, uh, its equivalent of the
first Amendment.
That actually gives some morerights.
So it's, the federalconstitution is the floor, not
(36:31):
the ceiling, and so differentstates can have some of them
just copy it verbatim and otherscan add other enhancements to
it.
But you can't subtract from thefederal, you can only add to it
.
Judge Matthew Sciarrin (36:40):
Likewise , new York has more protections
than the federal governmentbecause of the large amount of
media companies that are basedin New York.
There are several provisions ofNew York law that go further
than the US Constitution withregards to protection of the
press and protection of theirsources and the underlying
(37:02):
research that they do, and thatthey have a lot of protections.
My only other or I guess, toplay devil's advocate, which is
clearly fun to do in a showcalled the Daredevil that you
know, beebe, and kind of actedin an unethical journalistic
manner on various occasions,including when, you know, she
(37:27):
got this aide drunk and high toget information from him, and it
was an aggressive negotiationto use another Star Wars term
with regards to getting her tonot do something, kind of
calling on some of the badthings that she did to maybe
(37:47):
level the playing ground.
So you know, whereas he clearlydid not have the right to stop
her First Amendment rights, Ithink he was also playing at a
very high level in as much aswhat was done to him in the
prior episodes as well.
Joshua Gilliland (38:06):
Oh, he has a right to be mad at her Like.
I absolutely do not question of.
We're friends.
You wrote this hit piece.
You twisted things radicallyout of context after you kept me
out late, got me drunk and, youknow, high on a controlled
substance.
We're not friends anymore.
Like that could have had a verydifferent conversation, like
(38:28):
the day after that article.
It's like you torpedoed a goodpolicy.
You exploited me.
I'm angry at you.
I will never see you again.
As opposed to the godfatherapproach of you know extracting
revenge that way.
Gaby Martin (38:47):
Well, he does have soprano ties, yeah, yeah yeah, I
was gonna say, and you know itis.
The thing is like beingsomething being off the record,
right, that doesn't actuallyexist.
Nothing is technically off therecord, as much as you would
wish and hope it would be.
You know, that's where you haveleveraging relationships with
(39:11):
journalists and really you can,you know, people that you may
trust more than others to, youknow kind of give background to.
But just saying something's offthe record does not mean
they're going to not report it.
And you know, yes, you can havekind of discussions with
(39:31):
journalists and kind of try to,you know, have compromises and
how things are covered, but youcannot actively stop them from
reporting what they want to do.
Joshua Gilliland (39:46):
It's one thing to go.
I'm going to give you anexclusive if you wait 72 hours,
you know, and that sort ofgamesmanship.
So that way the narrative canbe controlled.
Opposed to I'm just going tothreaten the press.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (40:01):
Opposed to I'm just going to threaten
the press or take away theirpress credentials to cover
certain events or pressconferences or other such
actions if they don't report ina favorable manner.
Joshua Gilliland (40:13):
Yeah, all bad, all bad, Not how we roll, which
brings us to the closing scene,which is it's kingpin being
kingpin.
But I I have questions about.
We see it's a conspiracy tocommit murder and on one level
(40:36):
it looks like vanessa and thetracksuit crime boss conspiring
to kill Fisk.
But then it made me wonder wasthis Fisk and Vanessa conspiring
to kill the mob boss in atracksuit, or did Vanessa and
the tracksuit mobster conspireto kill Fisk?
(40:58):
And Fisk is just really smartand was ready for it.
So there's a, I think, threeoptions here.
But this is conspiracy tocommit murder and it can.
It's a weird one because ifit's in the second category of
(41:18):
Vanessa and Fisk doing this likedouble blind, you know we're
going to set up this mobster somy bodyguard can take them down.
That's still a conspiracy tocommit murder and you still have
to get rid of the body and it'sin a restaurant that's empty.
Who would like to help addressthis?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (41:52):
Let's start with first thing.
I choose choice B.
Who would like to help addressthis?
They set up Luca, but it's verypossible that Kingpin, through
other means, found out aboutthis hit.
But I really believe that Fiskand Vanessa got together on this
.
But in any event it's still aconspiracy and in New York under
(42:14):
Section 105.15 of the penal lawit would be conspiracy in the
second degree.
A person is guilty ofconspiracy in the second degree
when, with intent, that conductconstituting a class A felony in
this case that class A felonywould be murder in the second
degree.
He agrees with one or morepersons to engage in or cause
(42:39):
the performance of such conductand that is a Class B felony.
The murder itself is a Class A1felony.
It's common law murder, murderin the second degree with intent
to cause the death of another.
He causes the death of suchperson or a third person and
clearly the person who pulledthe trigger was acting at the
(43:01):
behest of the kingpin.
The triggerman would be guiltyof murder in the second degree
and Fisk and Vanessa could befound guilty of conspiracy in
the second degree If they bothconspired.
Joshua Gilliland (43:19):
If only one conspired, then only one of them
would be guilty of that crimeuh, this is either really
disturbing and creative couplestherapy or, um, just just evil
for the sake of being evil.
Gaby Martin (43:34):
But uh, gabby your thoughts I'm torn because I when
saw it, I had the inversereaction.
When I saw it, initially Ithought it was a plot with the
two of them to kill Luca, butthen when I watched it back
again and I just can't help butthinking it's, you know, fisk
(44:02):
knowing about it, or maybe theway I thought it, it wasn't so
much a um, him being very clever, almost like he ran a test
right and that was.
And potentially you could haveanother crime here that I just
thought of, which.
Which is he?
He mentioned earlier in theepisode, uh, to his bodyguard or
(44:24):
staff member, whatever thisman's title is, within the
administration, um, so made uptitle Um.
But he says that he now has theresources, um, of the, uh, the
office of the mayor, right, andwe talked about previously.
You know corruption and youknow misuse of conflicts of
(44:47):
interest and misuse ofgovernmental resources, and he
could potentially have used thatto find this plot out.
And he certainly could justhave gone to a restaurant alone
and told Vanessa he was going tothe restaurant alone to see
(45:09):
what happened, to see if shewould be loyal to him or not.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (45:14):
And Buck and Kingpin actually have
that discussion.
As to the, you know, the usingof the governmental resources in
a non-governmental manner, inthe office they highlighted that
issue earlier on.
With regards to this, he couldhave been very, very well
(45:37):
prepared, having dropped thathint to Vanessa.
But my feeling on therelationship with Vanessa and
Kingpin, which goes back to theother episodes dealing with
Vanessa not really feeling thatshe was in danger because of
Kingpin's love for her, thatlove, as weird as their
(46:01):
relationship is, is reallyalmost set in stone in the
comics.
So it would be a big jump tohave Vanessa backstabbing the
kingpin, not that it couldn'thappen, but I see it more as she
might have thought of it forthat brief second.
She might have encouraged Lucato do it for that brief second.
(46:21):
She might have encouraged Lucato do it for that brief second.
But I think then she goes toKingpin and says he's coming for
you, but we'll see in the lastepisode I have a feeling.
Joshua Gilliland (46:35):
Yeah, their relationship is either really
strong or it's going to havesome really complex therapy
issues with.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (46:42):
Right, and if she knew where Adam was
and what he had been doing toAdam, then I could see her doing
this and maybe she did find out.
But you know, that to me wouldhave given Vanessa the push to
maybe do this on her own, totake out Absent.
Knowing the situation with Adam, I don't know if she would do
(47:06):
it yet that might be the dominothat launches it down the road.
Joshua Gilliland (47:14):
Good thinking, good thinking, fascinating.
So a lot there, gab gabby.
Anything else to add?
So, pivoting back to our notes,that looks like every issue, uh
, for this episode.
I again I thought this was afantastic episode.
(47:37):
Uh, just going back to the fightwell choreographographed, it's
bright light, so it's not likethey're hiding in the dark for a
fight scene.
Whoever the stunt people are,look good.
We haven't seen anything asbrutal as the grappling hook get
shot through somebody'sshoulder before.
(47:58):
So Daredevil might have a ruleagainst killing, but apparently
maiming's on the table, uh,which, again, he did that to
keep muse from going after, uh,you know the doctor.
So I don't I think it'sjustified.
Uh, lethal force would havebeen justified.
(48:20):
So so this while violent andit's like wow, he's going to
have to clean that really well.
So that way there isn't anyevidence of the muse on it.
I do also wonder about, withhim taking his glove off at
times, if he's left fingerprintsof himself that could be used
(48:43):
to identify him at the at thescene I mean, I think with that
the, I would say, because Ithought about that as well.
Gaby Martin (48:54):
But then you have the and maybe this is where,
like the tension is, the highestperson in office knows who he
is.
So there's a kind of and.
And what I personally haveloved about the last couple
episodes um is the cuttingbetween um daredevil and fisk um
(49:16):
, as kind of two sides of a coin, um, and it's, you know,
cutting as one makes an actionand it's cut, you know, back and
forth between them, um, and itjust really shows how
interconnected they are um andhow parallel they are um.
So that's what I've personallyloved and I would say you know
(49:38):
there's, it's that kind oftension between them.
Joshua Gilliland (49:41):
Why would you know this kind of risk that
coming out um yeah, because heyou know what does he have to
lose if he discloses theidentity of daredevil and it's
like how did you know that wouldbe the?
Because it goes to his guiltfrom the prior crimes that he's
(50:04):
somehow out from.
Like he should still be rottingin a prison cell.
So how he gets out is still amystery to me.
Uh, despite all the weird stufffrom uh season three of him
gathering information on peopleand using it to to exploit them
and try to cheat the system, buthe should still be rotting in a
(50:30):
cell federally, not just state,state and federal convictions
there to put him away.
Gaby Martin (50:44):
Yeah, I mean he should also be dead.
He was shot in the eye Like heshould be dead as well.
But again, and maybe that'swhere Daredevil's like not being
more carefree with breakingpeople's elbows elbows and like
beating, you know, people, um,within an inch of their life
(51:07):
because people clearly haveseveral more inches of their
life than normal uh, reality, uh, because everybody is
incredibly durable, uh, in thisuniverse, and what would kill a
person, um, or severelyincapacitate them in our reality
does not seem to exist in theshow, and the only thing that
(51:27):
seems to actually kill you islike a bullet to the head, and
sometimes even then, like itdepends.
So you know.
Joshua Gilliland (51:38):
Merely a flesh wound.
He has a very thick skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (51:42):
In soap operasas, superhero shows,
comic books and star wars.
Uh, they're not necessarilydead until they've, you know,
burned the pier yeah, yeah, butit's from the hawkeye series.
Joshua Gilliland (51:56):
Like there's video evidence of him planning a
crime with bishop, like that.
Like you don't walk that offeasily.
Uh, like, so did that getsuppressed somehow?
Uh, because it is a partyadmission.
Uh, even though it's without awarrant, it's still a party
(52:17):
admission, unless there's fruitof the poisonous tree somehow,
and I haven't watched that for awhile.
But uh, moreover, we we do see,uh, kate's near stepdad, uh,
that he was in in this episode,one of the prior episodes.
Gaby Martin (52:33):
So, again, subtle callbacks that they're doing
yeah, and I think it speaks tothe kind of um, you know, power,
uh, not dynamics, but how powerexists in the universe, and
that you know, just this kingpinwas able to be elected to mayor
, these other kind of shadowyfigures and and characters are
(52:57):
in the the fact that he's atthis private fundraising gala of
elite.
What they very clearlydemonstrate is, you know, kind
of New York's movers and shakers, right Like the people who
really decide power in New York,and he's a part of this.
(53:18):
So you know, I think that goesto show like what this universe
actually is, at least, at leastin the, the new york city.
Who knows elsewhere?
Joshua Gilliland (53:29):
yeah, it's.
How did barton react to this?
Did he just stay in upstate?
And you know well that'sunfortunate.
How, how?
How do you not take action withthat?
I'm not saying that a mayoralrace is an avengers local threat
.
However, you think others wouldget involved.
(53:50):
But then it's a matter ofbudget, because we're not going
to see spider-man and hawkeyeappear.
Uh, that's just.
You can't have them all gettogether in daredevil.
Uh, as cool as it would be,it's just not going to happen.
So we're almost at the end.
So it's Sunday night when we'rerecording.
(54:11):
Tuesday we get the last episodeand then we'll be game on to
record our conclusion to theseries.
And I'm glad to hear there'sbeen casting for season two.
Now, gabby, I haven't seen this.
Who's been?
Who's been announced?
Gaby Martin (54:28):
I believe, um I saw matthew lillard has been uh
cast and I I particularly notedit because I I don't remember
the couple other actors um thatwere were cast um, but I do
recall that, seeing that theseveral that I I did see were
all cast as political opponentsto wilson fisk.
(54:50):
So, um, that'll be interestingto see um how that plays out and
where, where it ends up um, forclearly he's he's going to stay
mayor in some capacity or stayin the political space, um, if
he's getting political opponentsuh next season.
Joshua Gilliland (55:09):
So yeah, there's still the city council,
so, uh, who might not be?
We're just gonna go fix up redhook, like might be not okay
with some of them, so all right.
Well, that said, thank youeveryone for tuning in.
Wherever you are, stay safe,stay healthy and stay geeky,
(55:30):
take care.
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