December 24, 2024 • 39 mins
I'm excited to share my guest episode on the Consistency Corner Podcast with Ruthie Sterrett!
In this episode, we tackle a topic I know many of you wonder about—the ever-mysterious social media algorithm. We break down how it works, how to make it work for you, and why understanding it can transform your content strategy. Ruthie and I also dive into the role social media plays in your overall marketing, the value of genuine engagement, and the benefits of outsourcing when the time is right.
If social media has ever left you scratching your head or feeling overwhelmed, this episode is full of tips and insights to help you approach it more strategically and confidently.
In this episode of the podcast, we talk about:
- Demystifying social media algorithms and how to make them work for your business
- Understanding the unique role social media plays in a larger marketing strategy
- The importance of active engagement
- How to know when outsourcing social media is the right move for you
- Relationship building on social media & alternative relationship building methods
…And More!
Special thanks to:
Ruthie Sterrett, host of The Consistency Corner Podcast
Listen to the original episode here: https://www.theconsistencycorner.com/blog/decoding-social-media-algorithms-with-andrea-jones-episode-175
Website: https://www.theconsistencycorner.com/
Connect with Ruthie on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theconsistencycorner
Go to the show notes for all the resources mentioned in this episode: https://onlinedrea.com/337
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to episode number 337 of the mindful
marketing podcast. In the month of December every year, I bring
you guest appearances on other podcasts, both as a way
to share what I'm doing out in the world at wide,
but also to give myself a little break and, walk the talk that I
preach so much here on this very podcast. And today, I'm excited to
(00:22):
highlight my guest appearance on the Consistency Corner
podcast. Ruthie and I sat down to talk about social media
algorithms. If you've ever felt like they've left you scratching your
head, this episode is for you. Ruthie and I dive into the world of
algorithms breaking down how they work and how you can make them
work for you. We talk about why understanding the algorithm is
(00:44):
essential for optimizing your content so that you reach all people. We talk about
how to tailor your content to the different platforms which can get you better
results. I talk about the benefits of outsourcing social media. I'm a huge
fan of this, but I also wanna help you decide if it's the right move
for you and your business. We talk about why genuine
social, like engaging and building relationships, is a game changer for
(01:06):
visibility. And I share with you the role of clear brand values and
personal development in your social media success. So if you're
ready to approach social media with a more intentional strategy,
this episode of the consistency corner podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.
(01:31):
Alright. Welcome back to another episode of the Consistency Corner
podcast. I'm really pumped today for our conversation with
Andréa Jones, who I actually heard as a guest speaker in
a virtual summit. And I was taking a walk and I was listening to her
speak about, mister Al, who we're gonna we're gonna talk
about today and you're gonna get to know. And I was like, yes, this
(01:53):
is conversations that more people need to be having,
particularly those of us in the marketing space and in the social media
space to let people know about because we all
can scroll. And we can all see the tips and tricks and hacks
and people talking about beating the algorithm or
figuring out the algorithm, but, like, what does that actually mean? Well, we're here to
(02:15):
talk about that and Andréa is gonna spill the beans on that. She's a social
media strategist who helps brands with bold personalities, bold opinions,
and bold ideas make bold moves towards elevating their thought
leadership and growing their business using the power of social media. So I'm
excited to get in. Andréa, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here
today. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I love talking about Mr.
(02:37):
Al. So I'm excited to dive in. Yes. Before we get into
our conversation on Mr. Al, can you share a little bit about your business journey
and how you got into being a social media strategist? Yeah.
So I'm like an OG Internet user. I started my first
blog in 2024, which makes this year 20 years, which
is just wild. You said 2024. Oh, 2004.
(03:01):
Blame the pregnancy brain. There you go. There you go. Okay. The
2004. Wow. That is OG. OG. Yeah. This was back
when it was not cool. I started my YouTube channel in 2007,
And my friends were like, you're doing what? You're posting videos online? That's
weird. Right? But I met my husband online.
So it's part of the story is we created a video together,
(03:25):
then we kept talking and fell in love. And then I
moved from Atlanta, Georgia to Toronto, Canada.
The tundra, the frozen. Yeah. Did you move during the winter?
Yeah, I moved on March 1st. And I was shocked that there
was snow in the ground and it that was one of the years where the
snow stayed until, like, end of April. And I was like, what have I done?
(03:48):
I must really left you. No. Yes. 10 years later, still
here. I live in Niagara Falls now, but that move really launched my
business. So prior to that, I work in hospitality. I was put on, like, the
social media teams at the time, but this was 2011.
So it wasn't really like, we had Facebook and Twitter and that's about
it. Brands weren't even on Instagram yet at that point. And
(04:10):
so, I launched my business,
offering social media services in 2014,
and it grew from there. I started off freelancing doing wearing
a Tenet hats, and now we have an agency where we offer done
for you services, for our clients. And then I teach,
our same material on the education side of the business in the Savvy
(04:34):
Social School and online podcast. Yeah. Awesome. So you've really
seen throughout the course of your career the changes
in the algorithm and how at any given time, if somebody
says, well, the algorithm likes this or the algorithm likes that, you're like,
woah, Hold on a second. So for people who are,
like, struggling to understand what the algorithm
(04:56):
wants, let's talk about that. And does it even matter?
Yeah. And it does matter. So, you know, we we come from a time where
things used to be in chronological order. Like, they were shown to you
in the order reverse order that it was posted. So you
started off with what someone just posted and then scrolled back
down. You could keep scrolling forever until the beginning of what
(05:18):
everyone posted. Right? That quickly became
overwhelming for users because you would see maybe posts
from the past hour or 2 depending on how many people you followed,
and you certainly weren't discovering new content. It was only based
on who you followed. So enter mister Al, the
algorithm, who is basically, AI.
(05:41):
He he's a machine. He's behind the scenes. He
has both, like, a hero complex and a villain
complex. So on the hero side, he's trying to
reward the right content, reward
the right content that, the platform wants to see, which means
we're, like, we're liking it, we're sharing it, we're commenting. And then he
(06:02):
can be a little bit of a villain and a little bit of a bully
because he goes, well, nobody like this post, so I'm not showing it to anybody
else. Right? So he has the the dynamic, the two
sides to him. And so as a business owner, as a
content creator, we have to be mindful of, like, what
he wants so that we can hopefully get on his
(06:23):
hero side and not his villain side. Yeah. Because you can use
that additional support once you figure it out. But I think it's really
important that we figure out a way to do that
in a way that is authentic to our brand voice and our personality. So can
you talk a little bit about the importance of that and not just trying to
do what everybody else is doing because it looks like it's working for
(06:46):
them. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I'll I'll give an example from one of my
clients. So she is a life coach
and, her most viral video has nothing to do with her
business. She got a video that got over 2,000,000 views on
TikTok. And at the time, we were like, yay. This is awesome.
But it had nothing to do with her business, had no impact on
(07:08):
selling her offers, on selling her, or or growing her list
or anything like that. So when we think about what the algorithm wants. I
mean, yes, we can post things that get a ton of views. But
ultimately, we have our own goals about how we want to show up in
the world. One of my personal examples as
well is I don't really post my kids on social media.
(07:32):
I do one post a year at Christmas time. Y'all can see the Christmas photo.
And then with this new baby coming, y'all will have seen already the baby
photo. That's it. There's no more. I know for a fact
those are my most highly engaged posts. Okay? Like but I'm not
pimping out my kid to sell my stuff. So that's just, like,
my personal boundary. So when you think about, like, there's
(07:54):
this balance between what the algorithm wants, like, everyone loves babies. We
love the baby pictures. I could post baby pictures every day, and
people would love them. But that's not serving me, and I don't
want to put my account display like that. So there's a balance between,
you know, what the algorithm wants and then what my my people want.
And typically, the post that have the most
(08:17):
conversion for me don't necessarily have the highest number of
views. They I'm looking at other metrics.
On Instagram, for instance, I love looking at saves and shares.
The algorithm also loves looking at saves and shares. You may get
fewer of them than likes and comments, and saves and shares
don't necessarily help you go viral. But those are the types
(08:40):
of indicators that show the algorithm that people are interested
in your post. And they're indicators to us as as business owners, as
content creators that that people are actually, like, learning from
consuming, finding our content valuable. And so, there is
a balance to, like, giving the algorithm what it wants and also doing what
you need to do as a business owner. Well, and understanding how social
(09:03):
media works as part of your overall marketing strategy. So, like, what
is social media's job in your marketing
puzzle? What piece in role is it filling? Because
it shouldn't be filling all of them. Right? Because
we don't own it. Yes. It is so fickle. Like,
sometimes mister Al is really nice and will, like, randomly take one of
(09:26):
your posts and you'll be like, oh my gosh. This posted amazing. And then you'll
do the exact same thing. And mister Al is like, we're we're not
sharing sharing this one out. And so it can be very fickle. So social
media plays, more of a role in the top of
your marketing funnel where it can be a great
discovery engine. Because again, mister Al can help match you to the right
(09:48):
people. Mhmm. And it can be a great, like, relationship
builder. So as you are finding new people, they're getting to know you.
But I always say, let's move them along into something else.
For us who have podcasts, like, we want them to listen to the podcast. We
want or if you have an email list, we want to get them on the
email list. You know, we wanna move them into more intimate marketing
(10:09):
avenues because those are way less dedicated
by algorithms and people have to opt in to access
them. So they're also very dedicated to consuming those content pieces.
And so, yeah, it definitely plays a very specific role in your in your
sales funnel. Yeah. So in terms of the algorithm
and even not just the part that social media plays, but the different
(10:32):
parts of social media. So when we think about it, like, obviously, each
platform has its own algorithm, but each
component within the platform has its own
algorithm. Stories has an algorithm. Reels has an algorithm. The feed has an
algorithm. The explore page has an algorithm. How does,
like, somebody keep up with all of that?
(10:54):
Yeah. It can be very challenging for business owners. I actually think
Instagram is become too complicated. Like, if we think about some of
the other platforms, like, they're way more simplified, and I think it's
easier to actually create content there. But Instagram remains a favorite. It's one of
my favorites as well. But each of those categories plays a
different role. So, Instagram reels typically is
(11:16):
about discovery. And you'll see this as you scroll through your feed. Instagram's
like, how about this reel about toddlers
eating food? And I'm like, yes, I'm watching it. Right?
And so as a business owner, you want your reel to
be right there in people's feeds, and that's Instagram actively matching it
based on user behavior. So
(11:39):
Reels typically are for discovery, typically. And that's like the top of
its own funnel within Instagram. Mhmm. Your feed
posts can straddle the line of discovery and relationship
building. So sometimes you'll also see, like, a
carousel or a static, image post
in your feed. But more often than that, we're served reels from people
(12:01):
we don't follow. So scroll through your feed and take a look at that. So
think about that when you're creating your content. Reels, it's going out to people who
don't know you. So you may wanna keep your educational
content focused on them and not so much on you. Your
feed post, they can be discoverable, but most often than not,
it's people who already follow you or even people who are thinking about follow
(12:23):
you and they they head over to your page. Stories is almost always
people who already follow you. And so you can be a lot more intimate
there. You can talk like you're talking to a friend. You can share a
little bit more of the behind the scenes and the things that people who, you
know, they already have relationship with you, so they're interested in it there.
So reels, feed posts, stories, typically that's how it goes.
(12:45):
All of those things can be on the discovery pay the discover pages
in, Instagram, but most often you'll see reels
and, static posts there. And most
users don't go to the Discover page. They're looking
at their feed. And, Adam Messeri, the, CEO
of Instagram recently, released a stat that most people are actually looking
(13:07):
at stories Mhmm. First. So I mean, it kinda makes sense that that
it's at the top of the screen. So It's at the top of the screen.
Yeah. And so we kinda wanna guide people. Like, if they found us so real
and they're following our feed, like, maybe sometimes we wanna say, like, go
watch the stories. Right? And, like, like, have a call to action there to drive
them to the stories. Mhmm. But all of those have algorithms
(13:28):
too. Like, stories, I there are certain people who I watch their
stories every day, and so they're at the top. The algorithm
is like, oh, she's watching this from every day. We're gonna put it right upfront.
But then sometimes I see stories from people, oh, I haven't seen them in a
while. That's the algorithm mixing it up a little bit going, okay. So she hasn't
seen this one a while. Let's test it out and see. And if I don't
(13:49):
click it, it's going back to the back of the line, and
the algorithm is not gonna show it to me anymore. The
thing the thing I'll say, it's, like, in this thought about the algorithm is that
it is trying to personalize experience for every individual person.
Mhmm. So your experience with the algorithm is gonna be different than
someone else's, and it's all based on your behavior. So if
(14:13):
you're seeing posts you don't like, you need to retrain your algorithm,
and the same is happening for every single person as they're they're going
through a platform like Instagram. Yeah. And I think one of the
interesting things that you said was how each component has a different
algorithm, and you can really think about it in terms of the funnel of
attract, nurture and convert. And so when I know when I work with
(14:34):
clients, like we talk about for your overall strategy,
what tools or I will say what activations or platforms are you
using to attract reels might be one of them. But we're
not gonna say social media, we're gonna say
specifically, the type and platform. And so let's say there's somebody who's
there like, you know what, Instagram is just like, not my thing. I'm not over
(14:56):
there. But I'm on LinkedIn. Like, now we have a whole
nother set of components and platforms and algorithms to learn
and understand. And I think LinkedIn is like, the
silent, underrated partner that we all need to be, like, buddying
up with lately. Yeah. I'm loving LinkedIn. Again, I find it's
way simpler to create content over there versus Instagram. Instagram
(15:18):
has gotten so complicated. I love it. I love it. It's my favorite. But if
a brand new business owner came today, I'd be like, well, let's
start with something a little bit easier to, like, grasp. And
LinkedIn's algorithm, I find, requires way
less content. So sometimes you'll see posts in the feed
for a week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks after it's been posted.
(15:40):
So you don't have to post every day. You could post once a week or
even once a month and still get really good traction on LinkedIn.
Yeah. And LinkedIn's algorithm is very different from Instagram.
They like text based content.
They they wanna see thought leadership in a way
that's consumable, by the person. There's no stories on
(16:01):
LinkedIn. They tested it out. It didn't work for their their, brands.
But the similarities in the algorithm are still there. It wants people to
engage and all the algorithms want people to stay on their app.
So one of the challenges right now with LinkedIn is,
well, they just fixed it this year. There didn't used to be a link in
the bio. So you're adding links in your post, but it's like people are leaving
(16:24):
LinkedIn and then the algorithm's like, hey, every time you post people leave me. I
don't want that. And so it would devalue your post. Whereas
now you can say link in bio because there is a link in bio. It
kind of tricks the algorithm a little bit because they're still on LinkedIn for a
sec and then they can leave. And it's really focused
on the conversation and the engagement. So the algorithm wants to
(16:46):
see people engaging with your content.
So there are a lot of similarities with between LinkedIn and Instagram, but
LinkedIn is more business focused. Mhmm. It's slightly more
professional. I will say there people still let loose over there.
Video is on the rise over there too. So I repurpose my reels over to
LinkedIn, and I still see some really good engagement over
(17:08):
there. And more people are using it on mobile than
desktop now. So it is the underdog, but
I think it's gonna have its time in the sun. Yeah, I think it's interesting
too, to think about your audience. And when they pick up their
phone, or they type in the, you know,
into their search bar on their computer linkedin.comorinstagram.com,
(17:31):
like, what is their intention? You know, oftentimes, we're picking up
Instagram because we want to laugh. We want to see a funny meme or a
funny reel. We wanna connect with a friend. We wanna catch up with our
community. We're going to LinkedIn maybe more to learn
or see what's out there or catch up on
industry news. You know, it's so interesting to me just to even have
(17:53):
conversations with people inside other
industries of, like, how are you using this platform?
Yeah. LinkedIn is definitely more professionally
minded, and there's not a lot of mixture of content. Whereas on
Instagram, I mentioned earlier that I'm getting, like, toddler eating
videos. I don't I don't see those on LinkedIn. Right? Right.
(18:14):
So it's it's very focused on business, whereas,
Instagram and even other platforms like Facebook for me is
a huge mix. Same with threads now for me is a huge
mix. LinkedIn is very focused. And so I do find
it's easier to be business minded as well in the
room. Yeah. And the other thing too, to understand, like, I think when we're particularly
(18:37):
when people are comparing maybe their social media
content and journey to competitors or even industry
leaders, like understanding the value
of the time people have put in. So if you're
starting out, like you're on chapter 1 or chapter 2 or chapter 3 of your
business journey, and you're over here following Amy Porterfield, who's like the
(18:59):
OG spin all platforms since they started, it's not the same
because she has equity in the platform already.
Right? Yeah. And the algorithm actually does prefer that.
Someone asked me the other day if they should start over their Instagram from
scratch. And even their LinkedIn, they were like, should I just delete it and start
a new one? No. The algorithm likes that you've been here for a
(19:21):
long time. They don't like a bunch of new accounts every time you create
something new or shift or pivot. So if you can, keep your same account
because that history there does does impact the algorithm as
well. Yeah, for sure. So when we talk about thought
leadership, I think this is an interesting concept that
those of us in the marketing space, like really understand, we get it,
(19:43):
we see the value in thought leadership
style content. But I know that for people outside the marketing
space, I know sometimes some of the clients that I talk to, they're like, thought
leadership? Like, what is that? I just need to sell my stuff.
And so talk to me a little bit about like, why thought
leadership is important, and how we can use thought leadership style
(20:05):
content to help optimize social media.
Yeah. This is a challenging one. And it really depends
on where you are in your stage of business. And it's why sometimes I really
emphasize if someone's coming to social media today, it's gonna take a while
before you get clients from it. There are other marketing levers you can pull
to get clients faster than social media. Social media is a long
(20:27):
term play that can it's like investing. You put in $20
today, and then in 10 years, you'll have $1,000
Right? Like, there's gonna be some investment there.
And so it is a long term play, but thought leadership is really you
sharing your expertise online. Mhmm. And,
a great example of this is someone who I started following recently. Her name is
(20:50):
doctor Becky. And
she talks a lot about like re parenting yourself as your parenting
your child. Y'all can tell what stage of life I'm in now. Right? If y'all
have kids, go follow Doctor. Becky. Doctor. Becky get inside, read
her book, listen to her podcast. So good. Yes. And she does
social media so well for thought leadership. Right? So
(21:12):
she's sharing her expertise in her
industry with this, kind
of background expectation that you will buy her book and you'll join her
paid community. Right? And she has digital products. She's not
leading with, hi, I'm doctor Becky. Buy my book. Because
that feels a little bit aggressive sometimes. She's leading
(21:35):
with, hey, are are you having this issue with your child? Here's what it
could mean. Right? Or, hey, here's something I observe
with one of my clients. She'll even do examples like
role playing, like, here's what this could sound like.
And it helps us as a viewer recognize ourselves in that
post and go, I'm going through that exact same thing right now.
(21:58):
I thought I was the only one. I'm listening. Okay?
And then you're in her world and you're listening to her podcast and you're buying
her books and you're joining her community. And so the same is for you as
as a a creator, a business owner, an expert, a thought
leader, you're sharing your expertise in a
way that the other person can see themselves in
(22:19):
that content, get curious and go
down the road. And I think this is a lot like building a friendship or
any relationship, dating, whatever. Because you
could, like, meet someone and go, oh, we're best friends. And for some
for most people, it's kinda like, that's really weird and aggressive,
and I don't know you. But for a lot of us, how
(22:41):
we caught our best friends is it happens
slowly over time. Right? You meet someone and you're like, let's go for
coffee, and then we're going for dinner. And now we're hanging out each other's
house, binge watching RuPaul's Drag Race. Like, whatever it is that you
do with your friends, that's the the evolution
of it, and not every friend will be a best friend. Not
(23:03):
every person you meet will get to that level. And so social media
relationship building is very much the same. That leadership is very much the
same. Some people may say surface level and they may only engage on
your social media platforms, but we're looking for those people who
wanna take it deeper. They wanna take it to the next level. They wanna get
to best friend status. And the only way for them
(23:25):
to find you is for you to show up as an expert and help them
see themselves in the content that you're sharing. Yeah.
So, you know, you talked about, like, that finding your best friend and you're
nurturing your people on social media and those relationships.
Let's talk about the idea of being social
on social media and how that in and of itself can
(23:47):
actually help the algorithm help you. Yes.
The algorithm does not like a post and go situation.
He is a little needy, mister Al, and he wants
all of our attention all of the time. So as much
attention as you can give him, he will reward you for that. So this is
why, you know, some people say if you post 5 times a
(24:09):
day, you know, that's a strategy that some people say. To me,
that's exhausting. I don't have that much energy to post 5 times a
day. However, behind that strategy
is the amount of time you're spending in the app. Okay?
So that time commitment would be helpful, and it's a
consistent daily time commitment. So typically, I recommend 10 to 20
(24:32):
minutes a day to start, and then you can scale up. And in those
10 to 20 minutes a day, we're we're hanging out.
We're finding new people. We're connecting with them. And I like to do
this personally with referral partnerships.
So, you know, people who can send me clients, and especially in
my kind of vertical, people who need help with social media,
(24:55):
they may have trouble finding me on social media because they're not on social media.
I have a little bit of a catch 22 situation over here. Yeah.
So I'm connecting with other people, web designers, podcast
hosts, brand experts, and I'm building out my network of
people who also serve my same client. To me, these are
my peers, my colleagues. And so it actually makes it a lot of fun for
(25:17):
me to connect with them because we're talking shop. Right?
Most of my time on social media is spent in direct messages. And
I actually think that's very helpful for business owners
building relationships with people because it is individual is 1 to
1. Is it scalable? No. It's very hard to
do. It's not scalable. I've seen a lot of people talk about
(25:39):
automations and creating spreadsheets to keep track of people.
I don't have a spreadsheet for my friends, so I don't have a spreadsheet for
my, peers either. I just make sure I'm
very consistently showing up. They see my content, I
see their content, and I just have conversations with them.
If you apply the strategy though, my my warning is
(26:02):
not to be sales y. And that's kind of like the
underlying current of a lot of the things we're talking about today is
it it could be we've all had the messages. People come in the DMs and
they're like, you should buy this. And you're like, I don't know you. I don't
want this. In fact, now I have I'm having a negative interaction with you instead
of one that could have been neutral or positive. And so there is
(26:24):
this desire as business owners that comes from a really good place
because we wanna sell our stuff and we know it can help people. We know
it could be valuable. And we don't wanna be,
like, too aggressive with it as well. So it's a conversation to see
where things go. We don't wanna assume anything about
anybody. Yeah. And I think also knowing going back
(26:46):
to, like, your whole marketing strategy, and what other pieces
and parts are you using? If you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't
wanna DM anybody. That doesn't sound fun for me. Like,
yuck. Okay. What else are you doing? Are you having
coffee chats with people? Are you going to community events? Are you
emailing people? Like, what other ways can you
(27:08):
build relationships? That's just one tool that you
could use. And when you understand how it works, great. But if you don't wanna
do it, that's okay. Let's do other things. Right? Yes. For
those listening, I'm doing, like, giant head dots. I
I a 100% agree. I was talking to one of my mentees, earlier
last week, and I kept recommending her,
(27:30):
like, do these, like, private communities. And she kept resisting. And it finally
got to the point where she was like, Andréa, I just wanna be in person.
I was like, oh, done. Forget everything I've said before.
That's not for you. Let's get you in person and like meeting people and
networking. Yes. And that's one of concept. Yes. One of the things that I find
when people really resist being consistent at something, it's because
(27:51):
it's not aligned with their values or
what they enjoy or what lights them up. And I'm not saying that, like, we
should never try new things because you don't know what you don't know.
But once you've tried it and you're like, this isn't for me, like, okay, let's
adjust. Let's pick something that we can be consistent with. Because all of this
stuff, like, you talked about, like, it being investing, it's like putting little
(28:13):
drops in the bucket each time. And if we can't consistently put
drops in the bucket, we're never gonna fill it. And so then we can spend
our time in those drops somewhere else where we can get
the results we're looking for. Yes. Oh, I love that bucket
analogy. That's beautiful. Yeah. I love a good analogy. My husband is like, oh, my
gosh, enough with your analogies. But, you know, I'm glad you
(28:35):
appreciated that. I do. I love a good analogy, too. So
I recognize one when I see one. Well, my last question for
you is, in your opinion, when is it time to outsource
social media? And when we say outsourcing, like, what
does that even mean? And what does a business owner or business leader need
to, like, consider before stepping in and saying, I'm gonna have somebody
(28:58):
else do this for me? Yeah. And especially if you're the face of
your company, your brand, your business, it can be challenging to figure
out how do I even outsource this. There's kind of 3 different levels to this.
The first is getting support with smaller things.
You know, having someone edit a video for you, having
someone write, some like maybe pull some captions from
(29:19):
your podcast episodes, having an assistant who can,
like, upload posts for you or help you stay on top of the inbox. So
those are kind of lower level tasks that you can outsource
individually. You'll know you're ready when you can tell
someone else what to do. K? So you typically have to do it
first, and then you can go, okay, I have a system. Here, replicate
(29:41):
this. Right? And so that's how you'll know you're ready. You'll also know you're ready
when you have the income to be able to support it. I'm a huge fan
of this. People outsource things too quickly sometimes and not in the
right order. And social media, especially if you're a personal brand, can be
challenging to outsource. Maybe initially you need a
bookkeeper instead of a social media manager. Right? So it depends on your business
(30:04):
model, and how much revenue you're bringing in. But the next level of that is
the social media manager. Typically, this is a freelancer or it can be an
in house person. They have more strategy behind them than an
assistant, and they can take over some of the the
whole pieces of social media. So they're writing captions. They're
telling you what videos to record. They're then editing them
(30:26):
and uploading them. Because it's an individual person, they
can be really embedded into your process, into your system.
It's a little more expensive than just an assistant. And so I
want you to make sure that you understand the role social media plays in your
business first. Like, you have to understand the value it's bringing your
business. Otherwise, you'll always look at that line item and be like, I'm
(30:48):
paying too much for this. Right? Yes. Oh my gosh. Like, we're gonna I'm gonna
get on my soapbox for a second. Because you and I both know in the
social media management world, there are people out there that are like, can I just,
like, hire my college neighbor and pay them, like, $200 a
month to do this for me? No. Like, this is a job that you want
a professional to do. You wouldn't hire your college neighbor to come rewire your
(31:09):
house if you needed electrical done. Like, it's the same
level of expertise in just a different industry.
Yes. A 100000%. Like, having someone with
that expertise is not cheap. K? Because they're they're
wearing a lot of hats, writing, editing, creative
direction, planning, organizing, video editing. Like,
(31:31):
there's a lot involved. Right? But that person can be integral
to helping free up some of your time as well. And then
I would say the 3rd level is hiring an agency or high level
strategic support. And this one's my favorite because this is
where I work. So I'm a 100% biased here.
But typically, this is when you've reached a certain level of success in your business
(31:54):
where you probably have a PR team. You probably have,
you know, a full time assistant, and you're creating a lot of content.
Your business is doing really well, and you just don't have time to
manage someone else. So by hiring an agency, they come
with the video editors, the graphic designers, the writers. They're
maybe taking things up a notch. They have multiple clients, so
(32:17):
they have their pulse on, you know, your specific vertical.
And then you're not having to worry about, like, hiring and firing multiple people.
So the challenge with one single social media manager is, if it doesn't
work out, you're starting all over again. Yeah. With an
agency, they have the systems in place. So you're typically just
you have your one point of contact and then you're dealing with them. Again, it
(32:39):
is pricey, so I would recommend, you know, you're at a certain level of
business by then. You have revenue. You have a line
item for this. You have a budget for this. You know the impact that social
media has on your business. When you do it, you see results in your business.
When you don't, you don't. Right. And so, yeah, those are things to think about
as you're thinking about hiring. Yeah. And I think another thing to think about, this
(33:00):
is something that I talk with clients a lot about when we're discussing the 9
Grid strategy is personal brand
versus your company brand. And we're gonna look at those through a
slightly different lens. And so for some
companies, you don't you haven't necessarily used a
personal brand. For other companies, your personal brand has been
(33:21):
growing. Now your company is growing. Now it's starting to get too
much to manage too, but because you may have
individual goals or things that you're doing outside
of just the company, it's important to still have both. So
that might be another area of, like, okay. It's time to get some level of
support on 1 or the other Because managing 2
(33:44):
in and of itself, like, becomes a full time job sometimes.
Yeah. It's too much. I don't recommend 2 accounts, like, ever. 2 brands
ever. 1 person. And I would disagree. I because I would say there are
times when 2 make sense if you are and this is actually like I'll just
say this, because this is kind of my sweet spot is more you're a
service provider, and you've grown your business to the place that like,
(34:06):
you are not the only one providing the service. You've built
a team of service providers. So now like your
company has it's become bigger than just
you. But maybe it's to your point, like I was saying, like, if if you're
doing other things, you've got other goals, like you're still doing speaking
engagements, or like, maybe you're gonna write a book,
(34:27):
or maybe someday you're gonna start another company because you're like a serial
entrepreneur. This is where we might need to, but at that
point, your company is bringing in enough revenue
that it makes sense to have support. Yes,
yes. When you have the second account, you really need someone else to manage it.
Right. And if you have the team that that person on the team can really
(34:49):
help with that. Yeah, I agree with that. For a lot of service based companies
that I've seen. What happens is they end up asking,
like, the front desk person or the office manager
or somebody to handle marketing.
And, like, that person doesn't have time and they don't have the expertise, and it's
no different than asking your college neighbor to do it. Like, if you are
(35:12):
a professional level company making 7, 8 figures, 9 figures a
year, maybe it doesn't make sense for you to have an in house marketing team,
but that's where like an agency and a strategic partner or a fractional
CMO or fractional director of marketing can really make sure that
your content and your marketing plan is elevated to the level
of service that you're providing your clients. Right? Yes. Yes.
(35:34):
Because that firm press front desk person has so much happening and so
much going on, that they can do very surface level things that
maybe they could do. It's the same level of what they do personally on their
account. And there's no strategy behind it. So, yeah, you can slap up
some posts and it can be a little bit of a Band Aid, but you'll
eventually need strategic support for that person. For sure.
(35:54):
Oh, my gosh. This was such a good conversation. I think you and I could
probably nerd out about marketing and social media all day long, but I wanna ask
a couple fun get to know you questions before we wrap up. And, you know,
we talk a lot about brand values here on the consistency corner. So I would
love to hear what's one of your brand values and how did you land on
it? Yes. So one of my favorites is positive
communication. And it actually started from a personal,
(36:19):
value. Have you ever heard of the the CliftonStrengthsFinders?
Okay. So I took the the CliftonStrengthsFinders and
my number 2 strength is positivity.
And I was like, wait, what? That's a strength? Not everyone looks
at the world with rose colored glasses?
So, when I recognized that, I was like, oh, this is a superpower that I
(36:41):
didn't even realize that I have. Like, I'm like a cheerleader
over here for people. And so it became one of our
company values is now when we look at how we
can champion our clients, we're looking at it through positive communication.
Social media can feel very negative sometimes. Marketing
can be a negative. Building a business is freaking hard. And
(37:04):
so we try to infuse, like, a positive communication in everything we
do. So Yeah. Tactically, that's like a lot of emojis and GIFs.
Yes. I love that. I love that. Alright. Well,
because one of my personal values and brand values is around
living with a growth mindset and personal development. I always love to ask our guests,
what is a favorite personal development book or podcast that
(37:26):
you would recommend? I love Mileeek's podcast.
I taught you. She's amazing. She's a former founder
of CrowBox and, now talks about
more personal development topics. It's amazing. I love it. Very fun. Very
fun. And then what is something that you are really
consistent with? And I'll remind everybody that consistent doesn't have to mean
(37:48):
constant. But what's something that you're really consistent with either in your
business or your personal life that you're really proud of? Personal life
is meditation. I meditate for at least 5 minutes every day.
And then business is my podcast. We're coming up on episode 300.
It is the most consistent content I've ever created. And I love it. Yes.
I love that. I love that. And I'm very impressed that you can meditate
(38:12):
for 5 minutes a day with a toddler. So that's great that you've been
able to stick to that. It has been a lesson
in time management and taking advantage of naps.
Yes, for sure. Oh my goodness. Well, Andréa, this was such a great conversation. Thank
you so much for being here. If our listeners are interested in connecting with you,
where do you hang out online? Where can they find you and learn more? Yes.
(38:33):
I'm at online drea everywhere online d r e a. Insta
is my favorite hang place right now. And then if you like podcasts, check out
the Savvy Social Podcast. We actually just won an award. It's, the
best, best in Canada business show. Oh my gosh.
Congratulations. That's awesome. Wild. So check it out,
Savvy Social Podcast. Fine. We'll link everything in the show notes. And again, thank you
(38:55):
so much for being here. Thank you for having me.
Welcome to episode number 337 of the mindful
marketing podcast. In the month of December every year, I bring
you guest appearances on other podcasts, both as a way
to share what I'm doing out in the world at wide,
but also to give myself a little break and, walk the talk that I
preach so much here on this very podcast. And today, I'm excited to
(00:22):
highlight my guest appearance on the Consistency Corner
podcast. Ruthie and I sat down to talk about social media
algorithms. If you've ever felt like they've left you scratching your
head, this episode is for you. Ruthie and I dive into the world of
algorithms breaking down how they work and how you can make them
work for you. We talk about why understanding the algorithm is
(00:44):
essential for optimizing your content so that you reach all people. We talk about
how to tailor your content to the different platforms which can get you better
results. I talk about the benefits of outsourcing social media. I'm a huge
fan of this, but I also wanna help you decide if it's the right move
for you and your business. We talk about why genuine
social, like engaging and building relationships, is a game changer for
(01:06):
visibility. And I share with you the role of clear brand values and
personal development in your social media success. So if you're
ready to approach social media with a more intentional strategy,
this episode of the consistency corner podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.
(01:31):
Alright. Welcome back to another episode of the Consistency Corner
podcast. I'm really pumped today for our conversation with
Andréa Jones, who I actually heard as a guest speaker in
a virtual summit. And I was taking a walk and I was listening to her
speak about, mister Al, who we're gonna we're gonna talk
about today and you're gonna get to know. And I was like, yes, this
(01:53):
is conversations that more people need to be having,
particularly those of us in the marketing space and in the social media
space to let people know about because we all
can scroll. And we can all see the tips and tricks and hacks
and people talking about beating the algorithm or
figuring out the algorithm, but, like, what does that actually mean? Well, we're here to
(02:15):
talk about that and Andréa is gonna spill the beans on that. She's a social
media strategist who helps brands with bold personalities, bold opinions,
and bold ideas make bold moves towards elevating their thought
leadership and growing their business using the power of social media. So I'm
excited to get in. Andréa, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here
today. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I love talking about Mr.
(02:37):
Al. So I'm excited to dive in. Yes. Before we get into
our conversation on Mr. Al, can you share a little bit about your business journey
and how you got into being a social media strategist? Yeah.
So I'm like an OG Internet user. I started my first
blog in 2024, which makes this year 20 years, which
is just wild. You said 2024. Oh, 2004.
(03:01):
Blame the pregnancy brain. There you go. There you go. Okay. The
2004. Wow. That is OG. OG. Yeah. This was back
when it was not cool. I started my YouTube channel in 2007,
And my friends were like, you're doing what? You're posting videos online? That's
weird. Right? But I met my husband online.
So it's part of the story is we created a video together,
(03:25):
then we kept talking and fell in love. And then I
moved from Atlanta, Georgia to Toronto, Canada.
The tundra, the frozen. Yeah. Did you move during the winter?
Yeah, I moved on March 1st. And I was shocked that there
was snow in the ground and it that was one of the years where the
snow stayed until, like, end of April. And I was like, what have I done?
(03:48):
I must really left you. No. Yes. 10 years later, still
here. I live in Niagara Falls now, but that move really launched my
business. So prior to that, I work in hospitality. I was put on, like, the
social media teams at the time, but this was 2011.
So it wasn't really like, we had Facebook and Twitter and that's about
it. Brands weren't even on Instagram yet at that point. And
(04:10):
so, I launched my business,
offering social media services in 2014,
and it grew from there. I started off freelancing doing wearing
a Tenet hats, and now we have an agency where we offer done
for you services, for our clients. And then I teach,
our same material on the education side of the business in the Savvy
(04:34):
Social School and online podcast. Yeah. Awesome. So you've really
seen throughout the course of your career the changes
in the algorithm and how at any given time, if somebody
says, well, the algorithm likes this or the algorithm likes that, you're like,
woah, Hold on a second. So for people who are,
like, struggling to understand what the algorithm
(04:56):
wants, let's talk about that. And does it even matter?
Yeah. And it does matter. So, you know, we we come from a time where
things used to be in chronological order. Like, they were shown to you
in the order reverse order that it was posted. So you
started off with what someone just posted and then scrolled back
down. You could keep scrolling forever until the beginning of what
(05:18):
everyone posted. Right? That quickly became
overwhelming for users because you would see maybe posts
from the past hour or 2 depending on how many people you followed,
and you certainly weren't discovering new content. It was only based
on who you followed. So enter mister Al, the
algorithm, who is basically, AI.
(05:41):
He he's a machine. He's behind the scenes. He
has both, like, a hero complex and a villain
complex. So on the hero side, he's trying to
reward the right content, reward
the right content that, the platform wants to see, which means
we're, like, we're liking it, we're sharing it, we're commenting. And then he
(06:02):
can be a little bit of a villain and a little bit of a bully
because he goes, well, nobody like this post, so I'm not showing it to anybody
else. Right? So he has the the dynamic, the two
sides to him. And so as a business owner, as a
content creator, we have to be mindful of, like, what
he wants so that we can hopefully get on his
(06:23):
hero side and not his villain side. Yeah. Because you can use
that additional support once you figure it out. But I think it's really
important that we figure out a way to do that
in a way that is authentic to our brand voice and our personality. So can
you talk a little bit about the importance of that and not just trying to
do what everybody else is doing because it looks like it's working for
(06:46):
them. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I'll I'll give an example from one of my
clients. So she is a life coach
and, her most viral video has nothing to do with her
business. She got a video that got over 2,000,000 views on
TikTok. And at the time, we were like, yay. This is awesome.
But it had nothing to do with her business, had no impact on
(07:08):
selling her offers, on selling her, or or growing her list
or anything like that. So when we think about what the algorithm wants. I
mean, yes, we can post things that get a ton of views. But
ultimately, we have our own goals about how we want to show up in
the world. One of my personal examples as
well is I don't really post my kids on social media.
(07:32):
I do one post a year at Christmas time. Y'all can see the Christmas photo.
And then with this new baby coming, y'all will have seen already the baby
photo. That's it. There's no more. I know for a fact
those are my most highly engaged posts. Okay? Like but I'm not
pimping out my kid to sell my stuff. So that's just, like,
my personal boundary. So when you think about, like, there's
(07:54):
this balance between what the algorithm wants, like, everyone loves babies. We
love the baby pictures. I could post baby pictures every day, and
people would love them. But that's not serving me, and I don't
want to put my account display like that. So there's a balance between,
you know, what the algorithm wants and then what my my people want.
And typically, the post that have the most
(08:17):
conversion for me don't necessarily have the highest number of
views. They I'm looking at other metrics.
On Instagram, for instance, I love looking at saves and shares.
The algorithm also loves looking at saves and shares. You may get
fewer of them than likes and comments, and saves and shares
don't necessarily help you go viral. But those are the types
(08:40):
of indicators that show the algorithm that people are interested
in your post. And they're indicators to us as as business owners, as
content creators that that people are actually, like, learning from
consuming, finding our content valuable. And so, there is
a balance to, like, giving the algorithm what it wants and also doing what
you need to do as a business owner. Well, and understanding how social
(09:03):
media works as part of your overall marketing strategy. So, like, what
is social media's job in your marketing
puzzle? What piece in role is it filling? Because
it shouldn't be filling all of them. Right? Because
we don't own it. Yes. It is so fickle. Like,
sometimes mister Al is really nice and will, like, randomly take one of
(09:26):
your posts and you'll be like, oh my gosh. This posted amazing. And then you'll
do the exact same thing. And mister Al is like, we're we're not
sharing sharing this one out. And so it can be very fickle. So social
media plays, more of a role in the top of
your marketing funnel where it can be a great
discovery engine. Because again, mister Al can help match you to the right
(09:48):
people. Mhmm. And it can be a great, like, relationship
builder. So as you are finding new people, they're getting to know you.
But I always say, let's move them along into something else.
For us who have podcasts, like, we want them to listen to the podcast. We
want or if you have an email list, we want to get them on the
email list. You know, we wanna move them into more intimate marketing
(10:09):
avenues because those are way less dedicated
by algorithms and people have to opt in to access
them. So they're also very dedicated to consuming those content pieces.
And so, yeah, it definitely plays a very specific role in your in your
sales funnel. Yeah. So in terms of the algorithm
and even not just the part that social media plays, but the different
(10:32):
parts of social media. So when we think about it, like, obviously, each
platform has its own algorithm, but each
component within the platform has its own
algorithm. Stories has an algorithm. Reels has an algorithm. The feed has an
algorithm. The explore page has an algorithm. How does,
like, somebody keep up with all of that?
(10:54):
Yeah. It can be very challenging for business owners. I actually think
Instagram is become too complicated. Like, if we think about some of
the other platforms, like, they're way more simplified, and I think it's
easier to actually create content there. But Instagram remains a favorite. It's one of
my favorites as well. But each of those categories plays a
different role. So, Instagram reels typically is
(11:16):
about discovery. And you'll see this as you scroll through your feed. Instagram's
like, how about this reel about toddlers
eating food? And I'm like, yes, I'm watching it. Right?
And so as a business owner, you want your reel to
be right there in people's feeds, and that's Instagram actively matching it
based on user behavior. So
(11:39):
Reels typically are for discovery, typically. And that's like the top of
its own funnel within Instagram. Mhmm. Your feed
posts can straddle the line of discovery and relationship
building. So sometimes you'll also see, like, a
carousel or a static, image post
in your feed. But more often than that, we're served reels from people
(12:01):
we don't follow. So scroll through your feed and take a look at that. So
think about that when you're creating your content. Reels, it's going out to people who
don't know you. So you may wanna keep your educational
content focused on them and not so much on you. Your
feed post, they can be discoverable, but most often than not,
it's people who already follow you or even people who are thinking about follow
(12:23):
you and they they head over to your page. Stories is almost always
people who already follow you. And so you can be a lot more intimate
there. You can talk like you're talking to a friend. You can share a
little bit more of the behind the scenes and the things that people who, you
know, they already have relationship with you, so they're interested in it there.
So reels, feed posts, stories, typically that's how it goes.
(12:45):
All of those things can be on the discovery pay the discover pages
in, Instagram, but most often you'll see reels
and, static posts there. And most
users don't go to the Discover page. They're looking
at their feed. And, Adam Messeri, the, CEO
of Instagram recently, released a stat that most people are actually looking
(13:07):
at stories Mhmm. First. So I mean, it kinda makes sense that that
it's at the top of the screen. So It's at the top of the screen.
Yeah. And so we kinda wanna guide people. Like, if they found us so real
and they're following our feed, like, maybe sometimes we wanna say, like, go
watch the stories. Right? And, like, like, have a call to action there to drive
them to the stories. Mhmm. But all of those have algorithms
(13:28):
too. Like, stories, I there are certain people who I watch their
stories every day, and so they're at the top. The algorithm
is like, oh, she's watching this from every day. We're gonna put it right upfront.
But then sometimes I see stories from people, oh, I haven't seen them in a
while. That's the algorithm mixing it up a little bit going, okay. So she hasn't
seen this one a while. Let's test it out and see. And if I don't
(13:49):
click it, it's going back to the back of the line, and
the algorithm is not gonna show it to me anymore. The
thing the thing I'll say, it's, like, in this thought about the algorithm is that
it is trying to personalize experience for every individual person.
Mhmm. So your experience with the algorithm is gonna be different than
someone else's, and it's all based on your behavior. So if
(14:13):
you're seeing posts you don't like, you need to retrain your algorithm,
and the same is happening for every single person as they're they're going
through a platform like Instagram. Yeah. And I think one of the
interesting things that you said was how each component has a different
algorithm, and you can really think about it in terms of the funnel of
attract, nurture and convert. And so when I know when I work with
(14:34):
clients, like we talk about for your overall strategy,
what tools or I will say what activations or platforms are you
using to attract reels might be one of them. But we're
not gonna say social media, we're gonna say
specifically, the type and platform. And so let's say there's somebody who's
there like, you know what, Instagram is just like, not my thing. I'm not over
(14:56):
there. But I'm on LinkedIn. Like, now we have a whole
nother set of components and platforms and algorithms to learn
and understand. And I think LinkedIn is like, the
silent, underrated partner that we all need to be, like, buddying
up with lately. Yeah. I'm loving LinkedIn. Again, I find it's
way simpler to create content over there versus Instagram. Instagram
(15:18):
has gotten so complicated. I love it. I love it. It's my favorite. But if
a brand new business owner came today, I'd be like, well, let's
start with something a little bit easier to, like, grasp. And
LinkedIn's algorithm, I find, requires way
less content. So sometimes you'll see posts in the feed
for a week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks after it's been posted.
(15:40):
So you don't have to post every day. You could post once a week or
even once a month and still get really good traction on LinkedIn.
Yeah. And LinkedIn's algorithm is very different from Instagram.
They like text based content.
They they wanna see thought leadership in a way
that's consumable, by the person. There's no stories on
(16:01):
LinkedIn. They tested it out. It didn't work for their their, brands.
But the similarities in the algorithm are still there. It wants people to
engage and all the algorithms want people to stay on their app.
So one of the challenges right now with LinkedIn is,
well, they just fixed it this year. There didn't used to be a link in
the bio. So you're adding links in your post, but it's like people are leaving
(16:24):
LinkedIn and then the algorithm's like, hey, every time you post people leave me. I
don't want that. And so it would devalue your post. Whereas
now you can say link in bio because there is a link in bio. It
kind of tricks the algorithm a little bit because they're still on LinkedIn for a
sec and then they can leave. And it's really focused
on the conversation and the engagement. So the algorithm wants to
(16:46):
see people engaging with your content.
So there are a lot of similarities with between LinkedIn and Instagram, but
LinkedIn is more business focused. Mhmm. It's slightly more
professional. I will say there people still let loose over there.
Video is on the rise over there too. So I repurpose my reels over to
LinkedIn, and I still see some really good engagement over
(17:08):
there. And more people are using it on mobile than
desktop now. So it is the underdog, but
I think it's gonna have its time in the sun. Yeah, I think it's interesting
too, to think about your audience. And when they pick up their
phone, or they type in the, you know,
into their search bar on their computer linkedin.comorinstagram.com,
(17:31):
like, what is their intention? You know, oftentimes, we're picking up
Instagram because we want to laugh. We want to see a funny meme or a
funny reel. We wanna connect with a friend. We wanna catch up with our
community. We're going to LinkedIn maybe more to learn
or see what's out there or catch up on
industry news. You know, it's so interesting to me just to even have
(17:53):
conversations with people inside other
industries of, like, how are you using this platform?
Yeah. LinkedIn is definitely more professionally
minded, and there's not a lot of mixture of content. Whereas on
Instagram, I mentioned earlier that I'm getting, like, toddler eating
videos. I don't I don't see those on LinkedIn. Right? Right.
(18:14):
So it's it's very focused on business, whereas,
Instagram and even other platforms like Facebook for me is
a huge mix. Same with threads now for me is a huge
mix. LinkedIn is very focused. And so I do find
it's easier to be business minded as well in the
room. Yeah. And the other thing too, to understand, like, I think when we're particularly
(18:37):
when people are comparing maybe their social media
content and journey to competitors or even industry
leaders, like understanding the value
of the time people have put in. So if you're
starting out, like you're on chapter 1 or chapter 2 or chapter 3 of your
business journey, and you're over here following Amy Porterfield, who's like the
(18:59):
OG spin all platforms since they started, it's not the same
because she has equity in the platform already.
Right? Yeah. And the algorithm actually does prefer that.
Someone asked me the other day if they should start over their Instagram from
scratch. And even their LinkedIn, they were like, should I just delete it and start
a new one? No. The algorithm likes that you've been here for a
(19:21):
long time. They don't like a bunch of new accounts every time you create
something new or shift or pivot. So if you can, keep your same account
because that history there does does impact the algorithm as
well. Yeah, for sure. So when we talk about thought
leadership, I think this is an interesting concept that
those of us in the marketing space, like really understand, we get it,
(19:43):
we see the value in thought leadership
style content. But I know that for people outside the marketing
space, I know sometimes some of the clients that I talk to, they're like, thought
leadership? Like, what is that? I just need to sell my stuff.
And so talk to me a little bit about like, why thought
leadership is important, and how we can use thought leadership style
(20:05):
content to help optimize social media.
Yeah. This is a challenging one. And it really depends
on where you are in your stage of business. And it's why sometimes I really
emphasize if someone's coming to social media today, it's gonna take a while
before you get clients from it. There are other marketing levers you can pull
to get clients faster than social media. Social media is a long
(20:27):
term play that can it's like investing. You put in $20
today, and then in 10 years, you'll have $1,000
Right? Like, there's gonna be some investment there.
And so it is a long term play, but thought leadership is really you
sharing your expertise online. Mhmm. And,
a great example of this is someone who I started following recently. Her name is
(20:50):
doctor Becky. And
she talks a lot about like re parenting yourself as your parenting
your child. Y'all can tell what stage of life I'm in now. Right? If y'all
have kids, go follow Doctor. Becky. Doctor. Becky get inside, read
her book, listen to her podcast. So good. Yes. And she does
social media so well for thought leadership. Right? So
(21:12):
she's sharing her expertise in her
industry with this, kind
of background expectation that you will buy her book and you'll join her
paid community. Right? And she has digital products. She's not
leading with, hi, I'm doctor Becky. Buy my book. Because
that feels a little bit aggressive sometimes. She's leading
(21:35):
with, hey, are are you having this issue with your child? Here's what it
could mean. Right? Or, hey, here's something I observe
with one of my clients. She'll even do examples like
role playing, like, here's what this could sound like.
And it helps us as a viewer recognize ourselves in that
post and go, I'm going through that exact same thing right now.
(21:58):
I thought I was the only one. I'm listening. Okay?
And then you're in her world and you're listening to her podcast and you're buying
her books and you're joining her community. And so the same is for you as
as a a creator, a business owner, an expert, a thought
leader, you're sharing your expertise in a
way that the other person can see themselves in
(22:19):
that content, get curious and go
down the road. And I think this is a lot like building a friendship or
any relationship, dating, whatever. Because you
could, like, meet someone and go, oh, we're best friends. And for some
for most people, it's kinda like, that's really weird and aggressive,
and I don't know you. But for a lot of us, how
(22:41):
we caught our best friends is it happens
slowly over time. Right? You meet someone and you're like, let's go for
coffee, and then we're going for dinner. And now we're hanging out each other's
house, binge watching RuPaul's Drag Race. Like, whatever it is that you
do with your friends, that's the the evolution
of it, and not every friend will be a best friend. Not
(23:03):
every person you meet will get to that level. And so social media
relationship building is very much the same. That leadership is very much the
same. Some people may say surface level and they may only engage on
your social media platforms, but we're looking for those people who
wanna take it deeper. They wanna take it to the next level. They wanna get
to best friend status. And the only way for them
(23:25):
to find you is for you to show up as an expert and help them
see themselves in the content that you're sharing. Yeah.
So, you know, you talked about, like, that finding your best friend and you're
nurturing your people on social media and those relationships.
Let's talk about the idea of being social
on social media and how that in and of itself can
(23:47):
actually help the algorithm help you. Yes.
The algorithm does not like a post and go situation.
He is a little needy, mister Al, and he wants
all of our attention all of the time. So as much
attention as you can give him, he will reward you for that. So this is
why, you know, some people say if you post 5 times a
(24:09):
day, you know, that's a strategy that some people say. To me,
that's exhausting. I don't have that much energy to post 5 times a
day. However, behind that strategy
is the amount of time you're spending in the app. Okay?
So that time commitment would be helpful, and it's a
consistent daily time commitment. So typically, I recommend 10 to 20
(24:32):
minutes a day to start, and then you can scale up. And in those
10 to 20 minutes a day, we're we're hanging out.
We're finding new people. We're connecting with them. And I like to do
this personally with referral partnerships.
So, you know, people who can send me clients, and especially in
my kind of vertical, people who need help with social media,
(24:55):
they may have trouble finding me on social media because they're not on social media.
I have a little bit of a catch 22 situation over here. Yeah.
So I'm connecting with other people, web designers, podcast
hosts, brand experts, and I'm building out my network of
people who also serve my same client. To me, these are
my peers, my colleagues. And so it actually makes it a lot of fun for
(25:17):
me to connect with them because we're talking shop. Right?
Most of my time on social media is spent in direct messages. And
I actually think that's very helpful for business owners
building relationships with people because it is individual is 1 to
1. Is it scalable? No. It's very hard to
do. It's not scalable. I've seen a lot of people talk about
(25:39):
automations and creating spreadsheets to keep track of people.
I don't have a spreadsheet for my friends, so I don't have a spreadsheet for
my, peers either. I just make sure I'm
very consistently showing up. They see my content, I
see their content, and I just have conversations with them.
If you apply the strategy though, my my warning is
(26:02):
not to be sales y. And that's kind of like the
underlying current of a lot of the things we're talking about today is
it it could be we've all had the messages. People come in the DMs and
they're like, you should buy this. And you're like, I don't know you. I don't
want this. In fact, now I have I'm having a negative interaction with you instead
of one that could have been neutral or positive. And so there is
(26:24):
this desire as business owners that comes from a really good place
because we wanna sell our stuff and we know it can help people. We know
it could be valuable. And we don't wanna be,
like, too aggressive with it as well. So it's a conversation to see
where things go. We don't wanna assume anything about
anybody. Yeah. And I think also knowing going back
(26:46):
to, like, your whole marketing strategy, and what other pieces
and parts are you using? If you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't
wanna DM anybody. That doesn't sound fun for me. Like,
yuck. Okay. What else are you doing? Are you having
coffee chats with people? Are you going to community events? Are you
emailing people? Like, what other ways can you
(27:08):
build relationships? That's just one tool that you
could use. And when you understand how it works, great. But if you don't wanna
do it, that's okay. Let's do other things. Right? Yes. For
those listening, I'm doing, like, giant head dots. I
I a 100% agree. I was talking to one of my mentees, earlier
last week, and I kept recommending her,
(27:30):
like, do these, like, private communities. And she kept resisting. And it finally
got to the point where she was like, Andréa, I just wanna be in person.
I was like, oh, done. Forget everything I've said before.
That's not for you. Let's get you in person and like meeting people and
networking. Yes. And that's one of concept. Yes. One of the things that I find
when people really resist being consistent at something, it's because
(27:51):
it's not aligned with their values or
what they enjoy or what lights them up. And I'm not saying that, like, we
should never try new things because you don't know what you don't know.
But once you've tried it and you're like, this isn't for me, like, okay, let's
adjust. Let's pick something that we can be consistent with. Because all of this
stuff, like, you talked about, like, it being investing, it's like putting little
(28:13):
drops in the bucket each time. And if we can't consistently put
drops in the bucket, we're never gonna fill it. And so then we can spend
our time in those drops somewhere else where we can get
the results we're looking for. Yes. Oh, I love that bucket
analogy. That's beautiful. Yeah. I love a good analogy. My husband is like, oh, my
gosh, enough with your analogies. But, you know, I'm glad you
(28:35):
appreciated that. I do. I love a good analogy, too. So
I recognize one when I see one. Well, my last question for
you is, in your opinion, when is it time to outsource
social media? And when we say outsourcing, like, what
does that even mean? And what does a business owner or business leader need
to, like, consider before stepping in and saying, I'm gonna have somebody
(28:58):
else do this for me? Yeah. And especially if you're the face of
your company, your brand, your business, it can be challenging to figure
out how do I even outsource this. There's kind of 3 different levels to this.
The first is getting support with smaller things.
You know, having someone edit a video for you, having
someone write, some like maybe pull some captions from
(29:19):
your podcast episodes, having an assistant who can,
like, upload posts for you or help you stay on top of the inbox. So
those are kind of lower level tasks that you can outsource
individually. You'll know you're ready when you can tell
someone else what to do. K? So you typically have to do it
first, and then you can go, okay, I have a system. Here, replicate
(29:41):
this. Right? And so that's how you'll know you're ready. You'll also know you're ready
when you have the income to be able to support it. I'm a huge fan
of this. People outsource things too quickly sometimes and not in the
right order. And social media, especially if you're a personal brand, can be
challenging to outsource. Maybe initially you need a
bookkeeper instead of a social media manager. Right? So it depends on your business
(30:04):
model, and how much revenue you're bringing in. But the next level of that is
the social media manager. Typically, this is a freelancer or it can be an
in house person. They have more strategy behind them than an
assistant, and they can take over some of the the
whole pieces of social media. So they're writing captions. They're
telling you what videos to record. They're then editing them
(30:26):
and uploading them. Because it's an individual person, they
can be really embedded into your process, into your system.
It's a little more expensive than just an assistant. And so I
want you to make sure that you understand the role social media plays in your
business first. Like, you have to understand the value it's bringing your
business. Otherwise, you'll always look at that line item and be like, I'm
(30:48):
paying too much for this. Right? Yes. Oh my gosh. Like, we're gonna I'm gonna
get on my soapbox for a second. Because you and I both know in the
social media management world, there are people out there that are like, can I just,
like, hire my college neighbor and pay them, like, $200 a
month to do this for me? No. Like, this is a job that you want
a professional to do. You wouldn't hire your college neighbor to come rewire your
(31:09):
house if you needed electrical done. Like, it's the same
level of expertise in just a different industry.
Yes. A 100000%. Like, having someone with
that expertise is not cheap. K? Because they're they're
wearing a lot of hats, writing, editing, creative
direction, planning, organizing, video editing. Like,
(31:31):
there's a lot involved. Right? But that person can be integral
to helping free up some of your time as well. And then
I would say the 3rd level is hiring an agency or high level
strategic support. And this one's my favorite because this is
where I work. So I'm a 100% biased here.
But typically, this is when you've reached a certain level of success in your business
(31:54):
where you probably have a PR team. You probably have,
you know, a full time assistant, and you're creating a lot of content.
Your business is doing really well, and you just don't have time to
manage someone else. So by hiring an agency, they come
with the video editors, the graphic designers, the writers. They're
maybe taking things up a notch. They have multiple clients, so
(32:17):
they have their pulse on, you know, your specific vertical.
And then you're not having to worry about, like, hiring and firing multiple people.
So the challenge with one single social media manager is, if it doesn't
work out, you're starting all over again. Yeah. With an
agency, they have the systems in place. So you're typically just
you have your one point of contact and then you're dealing with them. Again, it
(32:39):
is pricey, so I would recommend, you know, you're at a certain level of
business by then. You have revenue. You have a line
item for this. You have a budget for this. You know the impact that social
media has on your business. When you do it, you see results in your business.
When you don't, you don't. Right. And so, yeah, those are things to think about
as you're thinking about hiring. Yeah. And I think another thing to think about, this
(33:00):
is something that I talk with clients a lot about when we're discussing the 9
Grid strategy is personal brand
versus your company brand. And we're gonna look at those through a
slightly different lens. And so for some
companies, you don't you haven't necessarily used a
personal brand. For other companies, your personal brand has been
(33:21):
growing. Now your company is growing. Now it's starting to get too
much to manage too, but because you may have
individual goals or things that you're doing outside
of just the company, it's important to still have both. So
that might be another area of, like, okay. It's time to get some level of
support on 1 or the other Because managing 2
(33:44):
in and of itself, like, becomes a full time job sometimes.
Yeah. It's too much. I don't recommend 2 accounts, like, ever. 2 brands
ever. 1 person. And I would disagree. I because I would say there are
times when 2 make sense if you are and this is actually like I'll just
say this, because this is kind of my sweet spot is more you're a
service provider, and you've grown your business to the place that like,
(34:06):
you are not the only one providing the service. You've built
a team of service providers. So now like your
company has it's become bigger than just
you. But maybe it's to your point, like I was saying, like, if if you're
doing other things, you've got other goals, like you're still doing speaking
engagements, or like, maybe you're gonna write a book,
(34:27):
or maybe someday you're gonna start another company because you're like a serial
entrepreneur. This is where we might need to, but at that
point, your company is bringing in enough revenue
that it makes sense to have support. Yes,
yes. When you have the second account, you really need someone else to manage it.
Right. And if you have the team that that person on the team can really
(34:49):
help with that. Yeah, I agree with that. For a lot of service based companies
that I've seen. What happens is they end up asking,
like, the front desk person or the office manager
or somebody to handle marketing.
And, like, that person doesn't have time and they don't have the expertise, and it's
no different than asking your college neighbor to do it. Like, if you are
(35:12):
a professional level company making 7, 8 figures, 9 figures a
year, maybe it doesn't make sense for you to have an in house marketing team,
but that's where like an agency and a strategic partner or a fractional
CMO or fractional director of marketing can really make sure that
your content and your marketing plan is elevated to the level
of service that you're providing your clients. Right? Yes. Yes.
(35:34):
Because that firm press front desk person has so much happening and so
much going on, that they can do very surface level things that
maybe they could do. It's the same level of what they do personally on their
account. And there's no strategy behind it. So, yeah, you can slap up
some posts and it can be a little bit of a Band Aid, but you'll
eventually need strategic support for that person. For sure.
(35:54):
Oh, my gosh. This was such a good conversation. I think you and I could
probably nerd out about marketing and social media all day long, but I wanna ask
a couple fun get to know you questions before we wrap up. And, you know,
we talk a lot about brand values here on the consistency corner. So I would
love to hear what's one of your brand values and how did you land on
it? Yes. So one of my favorites is positive
communication. And it actually started from a personal,
(36:19):
value. Have you ever heard of the the CliftonStrengthsFinders?
Okay. So I took the the CliftonStrengthsFinders and
my number 2 strength is positivity.
And I was like, wait, what? That's a strength? Not everyone looks
at the world with rose colored glasses?
So, when I recognized that, I was like, oh, this is a superpower that I
(36:41):
didn't even realize that I have. Like, I'm like a cheerleader
over here for people. And so it became one of our
company values is now when we look at how we
can champion our clients, we're looking at it through positive communication.
Social media can feel very negative sometimes. Marketing
can be a negative. Building a business is freaking hard. And
(37:04):
so we try to infuse, like, a positive communication in everything we
do. So Yeah. Tactically, that's like a lot of emojis and GIFs.
Yes. I love that. I love that. Alright. Well,
because one of my personal values and brand values is around
living with a growth mindset and personal development. I always love to ask our guests,
what is a favorite personal development book or podcast that
(37:26):
you would recommend? I love Mileeek's podcast.
I taught you. She's amazing. She's a former founder
of CrowBox and, now talks about
more personal development topics. It's amazing. I love it. Very fun. Very
fun. And then what is something that you are really
consistent with? And I'll remind everybody that consistent doesn't have to mean
(37:48):
constant. But what's something that you're really consistent with either in your
business or your personal life that you're really proud of? Personal life
is meditation. I meditate for at least 5 minutes every day.
And then business is my podcast. We're coming up on episode 300.
It is the most consistent content I've ever created. And I love it. Yes.
I love that. I love that. And I'm very impressed that you can meditate
(38:12):
for 5 minutes a day with a toddler. So that's great that you've been
able to stick to that. It has been a lesson
in time management and taking advantage of naps.
Yes, for sure. Oh my goodness. Well, Andréa, this was such a great conversation. Thank
you so much for being here. If our listeners are interested in connecting with you,
where do you hang out online? Where can they find you and learn more? Yes.
(38:33):
I'm at online drea everywhere online d r e a. Insta
is my favorite hang place right now. And then if you like podcasts, check out
the Savvy Social Podcast. We actually just won an award. It's, the
best, best in Canada business show. Oh my gosh.
Congratulations. That's awesome. Wild. So check it out,
Savvy Social Podcast. Fine. We'll link everything in the show notes. And again, thank you
(38:55):
so much for being here. Thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!