June 24, 2025 • 43 mins
Feeling like Instagram just isn’t hitting the way it used to?
You're not alone. This week, I sat down with Instagram strategist Michelle Gifford to get honest about what’s actually working right now—and what isn’t.
We talk through how to make content creation sustainable, how the algorithm really works, and what makes marketing feel more aligned (especially when you’re also raising kids, juggling clients, and trying not to burn out).
If you want smarter Instagram marketing without overthinking every post, this one’s for you.
In this episode of the podcast, we talk about:
- The real reason your posts might not be performing
- Why batching doesn’t work for everyone
- How to balance trends, authenticity, and reach
- What the algorithm actually wants from you
- Tips for showing up without burning out
…And More!
This Episode Was Made Possible By:
Riverside All-in-One Podcast & Video Platform
Visit Riverside and use the code DREA to get 15% off any Riverside individual plan. We use it to record all our podcast interviews: https://onlinedrea.com/riverside
About the Guest:
Michelle Gifford is a strategist, coach, podcaster and agency owner, here when you’re ready to take your business to the next level without sacrificing what matters most! Michelle is the go-to Instagram expert for business owners who want results. She’s the secret weapon behind six and seven-figure brands who are growing, making an impact, selling out programs and bringing home serious profit – all from Instagram!
Website: https://iammichellegifford.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iammichellegifford/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MichelleGifford/
Go to the show notes for all the resources mentioned in this episode: https://onlinedrea.com/363
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There's a little rumor going around in the Internet space that it's too
crowded. And today I have Michelle Guilford on the show to talk about how
you can stand out despite the crowding that's happening in
our lovely Internet spaces, especially our favorite Instagram. So
we'll get into that and more in the 363rd episode of the
Mindful Marketing Podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor.
(00:23):
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Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most
(00:46):
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(01:08):
the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA D
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membership. Michelle, welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you so much for having me. This is going to be a good
conversation. I'm excited. I'm excited we were talking about
before that. I'm just nosy, so I'm excited to be like, so what you really
doing? I'm thrilled to have this conversation, but just to kind of
(01:31):
frame and set the stage for everyone listening. Give us like the 30,
60 second spiel about you and your business.
Sure. I am an Instagram marketing and social media
strategist and I have a marketing agency where we do it for you
and I also am teaching it and I'm also building my own brand. So I
try to hit it at every side. So I am helping people who are like
(01:54):
far along. Right. And we're doing it for them in our agency and. And
then I'm teaching people who are starting and growing. So I am
deeply entrenched every day in Instagram and
where people are struggling with Instagram and what's working. So I'm excited to.
I'm excited to dive in. Yeah, me too. Because I so
my background for listeners and for you too, Michelle. I also used to owned a
(02:16):
social media agency and of course I teach social media as well. And like, it's
one of Those things where we have job security because it's always
changing. And also, like, don't try
to learn this for yourself. Like, this is literally our job. So come to us,
get the info, get the details. So tell me, you know,
with Instagram, especially here, now in 2025,
(02:39):
it, there are a lot of, shall we say,
trends happening. So I want to start the conversation with, you know, someone
coming into this. They're looking at the scope, they're looking at the landscape of Instagram
and they're like, how do I balance all of this? I've got the trending content
and I gotta, I don't know, talk about my. What are some of the steps
that you have your clients and customers think about when they're approaching
(03:00):
Instagram today? Sure. So one of the things that will
completely change how you show up on Instagram is to realize that different pieces
of content have different goals. So if we
know that, and I'll dive in just a little bit, but if we know that,
then we don't have to stress out if this one doesn't perform well, doesn't get
as many views, or if this one does because we have goals. So I
(03:21):
like to break up my content into the attract, nurture,
sell method, which is what I teach. It's what my, my agency does.
But like, we're going to create some content to attract new people in.
We're also going to create some content to nurture people. And
then of course we're going to sell too and to realize that different pieces of
content have different goals. So maybe those trends are what
(03:44):
we jump on to attract new people in. And then we've
really got to establish ourself as the expert as well as, like, get people
connected to us. And so that would be more nurture content. And then we have
sell content, which would be like testimonials or maybe
just looking at like, look, someone, we did this for the client
and now they have this. Or showing if you're a designer or something like that,
(04:06):
where you're actually showing what you do and asking people
to buy. Do you think there's a brand that like, trends don't
work for at all? Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's absolutely true. So I don't think trends are for everyone.
I think that you can do trending audio that's, you know, just in the background,
(04:26):
that doesn't necessarily make you play one way or the other that
can help you. But as far as trends, like, you have to look at your
brand and, and make sure, like I always look at
resonance. Like, will this resonate with my audience? So you have
people that are. Maybe I should clarify, but when you're talking about
trends, do you mean, like, people are doing this dance
(04:48):
move or whatever? Yeah. Or even, like, memes and stuff?
Like, every time it's like the Grammys or the Oscars or
even, like, the Olympics, it's like everyone and their mom is posting a meme. And
sometimes I'm like, okay, yeah, I totally can hop on this, but most of the
time, it's not for me. So I'm always curious how
people are approaching these. And, like, how do we decide if it is
(05:09):
for me or if it isn't? Yeah. So I look at timing and
resonance. Those are the two things that I think about. So if you.
If it's like the Oscars and it's a week late, you missed it. You missed
the boat. It's almost like the. It's like the first.
The first day. That's about all you have. And that's the same with other trends.
Like, I always think if I've scrolled on Instagram for 5
(05:31):
to 10 minutes and either seen that trend more than once
or whether it's like a meme or, you know, like, around an event or
not, but, like, am I already annoyed with it? Okay, then I'm not going to
create more content about it. The second thing is, does this. Will this
resonate with my audience? And does this resonate with me? And if the
answer is no, don't do it, like, there is no need to jump on a
(05:53):
trend, especially if your energy is not there and it's. And
if your audience is going to be like, meh, pass, you know, but if
there's something that you get real excited about, that it would be fun
and it would be easy to create, I say test it, you know, and. Because
that's what we're doing is, like, just testing content. So there are
accounts that are much more serious, right? They are the experts, and they're like,
(06:15):
hey, every day they show up and they do talking head
videos. It would be weird if they were like. And then the Oscars.
And let's. Let's talk about, like, what everyone wore, right?
That would not. It would not fit into their brand or their niche. But
there are current events that do happen that make sense. And so we just have
to be aware of that. And also just be aware when. Like, when you get
(06:37):
that ick feeling like, that's not for me, then you just don't do it, and
that's totally fine. And that's why we get to build our own brands. Yeah.
I mean, I always say, like, you don't. You don't really know where a boundary
is until you cross it or until that line is tested. And I think that's
true for trends, too. Sometimes you don't know how cringe it is until you do
it. But I will say this, too. Sometimes I love stuff, and my people don't
(06:59):
like it. Like, I am a huge fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. Like,
literally obsessing every season. Every Spin off season. I listen to podcasts about
the show. Like, I am a little too far gone. And
I. There was a point in time where, like, I even had, like, whole
episodes with, like, Spin off titles about Drag Race, and people were like,
okay, Andrea, like, calm down. And so some of it is
(07:21):
testing too. Like, I like it, but my people don't like it that much. So
I have to. I have to use my Drag Race references sparingly,
otherwise people start tuning out. And I think this is the beauty of marketing, right?
Like, we can have fun with it. We can has things in play and stuff,
but at the end of the day, we kind of have to look at the
data and move forward. So do you. Do you have any examples of that where
you're like, I really love this. And then people are like, okay, Michelle, calm down.
(07:45):
Well, I think, like, I think with your specific example,
it's really good because it makes you say, like, this is something that we
have to figure out as personal brands is, like, what
is the level of excitement that, like, for
specific things that I want to bring and does it make sense and does it
enhance my brand or does it take away from it?
(08:08):
And like you said, sometimes you're like, ooh, got caught up. You know, got
caught up. That doesn't resonate as much as I want. And I mean, like, I
talk about this is not the same, but.
But I am the coach for my girls softball teams,
and I'm, like, talking about in stories all the time, and. And sometimes I'm like,
oh, I don't know that everyone actually cares that much about this, you
(08:30):
know, and it's okay to layer it in, and it's okay for it to be
a thing, but just to be, like, just aw.
We get to be very intentional about how we build our brands. And
part of that intention is listening and saying, like, And. And
just, like, feeling, reading the room, the energy. Like, are people.
Is this. Is this getting. Bringing people in, or is it repelling people?
(08:53):
And I mean, like, Sometimes it's like, well, maybe that does repel people.
That's fine. Is it repelling the right people or is it, you know, people that
are my people that I'm trying to talk to, Is it repelling them
or is it bringing them closer? And so I think just like
paying attention to that and just know that you're probably very
few people, very few marketers, very, very few personal brands
(09:15):
are going to just like ruin it with one post. There are people
who have. And we could dive into that. But like, you know, but like,
but like, but very few of us with these kind of things. We're not going
to ruin. We're not going to ruin it so we can test things out
and see how it feels. See how it feels, the post. See how the energy
that comes back. Yeah, okay, I do want to get back to that
(09:36):
ruining moment because I think we need to talk about that. But I do have
a nosy question that popped up earlier for me, which is you talked about,
you know, post about your girls soccer practices. Was it soccer or
softball? Softball. And so this is like a boundaries question
because I think some people, me included,
feel hesitant to put our kids or our families online
(09:59):
or even like our personal lives and things like that. So especially for personal
brands, how do you decide this for yourself? Like, where
are your own boundaries when it comes to social media? Really great
question. So my kids,
my content is not dependent on my kids. That is something I feel very
passionate about and I'm not an influencer, so I can do that.
(10:21):
Right. But we all have to figure out what that boundary is for ourselves.
So it's mostly in my stories that I talk about softball and I
don't share anyone else on the team. Right. And I don't share
much about my girls. But one of the things, like my connecting
points with my audience is that I'm a mom and I'm running
an agency and a business and I still have time for
(10:44):
softball. So it is a part of my story that I want to
underline, but I don't, I share enough to know
that it's happening. But I'm not. Like, I take
my kids. I have five kids. I have a
senior in high schooler. I mean senior in high school down to
a nine year old. And so like, it's one thing to show your kids when
(11:07):
they're little, but I have my son's
friends follow me on Instagram, so I am very
aware and I will ask them, like, hey,
you know, like, if I'm sharing something about our family or sharing a family
picture, I'm like, hey, you good with this or not? You know,
and because they, I have an adult, he's 18, he's
(11:28):
graduating and I have to respect that he's an adult.
And I also have to respect that my kids are going to be adults and
do I want people to know all of this stuff about them. Now
with my softball teams, I have a 9 year old and a
12 year old, girls who both play softball. And
that's about, I mean, you feel close, like you like know what's going on,
(11:51):
but you don't actually know specifics. And that's kind of where
my line is. And I asked my kids and like, do you want to,
do you want me to share about this or not? You know, and because again,
my content is not dependent on my kids, but me as
a mom, knowing people, knowing that I'm a mom and that I'm doing this, I
want that energy to be like, and you can do it too. And so I
(12:13):
do share some glimpses into my motherhood. Yeah, I
love that. And like I'm a new mom. So I have a three year old
and a one year old and I love it. When you said five
kids, like, my heart panicked. Like I was like, oh my God, never.
I mean, bless you. Good for you. One is harder than five almost. I
don't know, one's a lot. Listen, two, I can make
(12:35):
a whole podcast series on having two kids versus one because I would. I feel
like I was tricked. But I love them. I love them very much. No,
but it is one of those things too where for me
right now, in this period in my life, when I look at people who I
admire, like other business owners, other content creators, I am
looking for people who have similar lives to me, right?
(12:57):
People who I feel like I can follow their advice because,
you know, they're in it with me. People who, like, it doesn't even have to
be kids. Like it could be, you know, maybe they're taking care of aging parents
or they have chronic illness or, you know, there's something where
it's like, you know, the Gary Vee model doesn't fit. Like wake up at 6am,
post literally all day. Like we don't have time for that. Like
(13:19):
we're living our lives. And so that's why I like that you, that you reflect
that back too. I want to circle back though, to this
idea of posting content and getting a negative
response because we've all seen it, We've all seen it. And I
think that I Have my own theories, but I'm curious to hear yours about,
you know, when we do cross that line, when we do post something
(13:42):
insensitive or we get feedback from our community that they're like, hey, we
don't like this. How do we navigate those situations? With
like, grace? Yeah. I think that most,
at least the audience that I am trying to build is pretty forgiving
because they know that I'm just doing the best I can.
So if I said something that was insensitive or
(14:05):
that like looking back, I'm like, oof, that wasn't
great. You know, I would hope that I. I mean,
public relations is my background. That's like what I majored in. And anyway,
where how I first started in business and really just like
owning up to it and being like, darn it, okay,
let's move on. You know, like, this is what I'm going to do better
(14:28):
or whatever. But I think, I mean, that's. If we're doing something that maybe was
hurtful or harmful, if it's like playful and it's just like, oh, that didn't
resonate and like I got bad comments, then it's like,
I, I will look and see where those comments are coming from. Because if they're
my people and it's like, oh, Michelle, this is a bad showing.
I'm gonna look at that and self reflect and say,
(14:49):
yeah, is that true? And what do I need to change? Because I will tell
you, I am not here to be perfect. And I know that I am not,
you know, and I'm very aware of that. And so
I don't think I need to. Let's see. Not every comment that
is given to me has the same value to me because you have passersby
who have no idea who I am. One of my first viral reels a
(15:10):
couple years ago was like, listen, I was newly back to the gym.
I was rowing on my, like on the rowing machine and doing a real bad
job of it, but by darn, I was there. Anyway, so I just posted a
B roll video of me rowing with like something else on the screen and
my. That blew up because people are real
passionate about rowing form, apparently. Well, now you
(15:31):
know, now I know. And every time I'm like, okay, I'm better
than I was two and a half years ago. But it's also, you see,
like those moments are funny because I'm like, I mean, that
means very little about me as a person, how I
row. So those are the things that I'm looking at is like, is this Is
there's a self reflection. Are the, Is this from someone that
(15:54):
I value their opinion, who, who knows who I am? And if
not, then I'm like, but if so, I say, oh, okay, like,
what do I need to learn from that? And how can I do better and
be better or just maybe be clearer? Because I've said some things where people have
said, oh, Michelle, have you thought about this? And I was like, oh, we're on
the same page. But I obviously wasn't clear enough. And so then that helps me
(16:14):
refine my message and I can't be. I.
I think my job as a content creator and
as an educator and as a thought leader is to consistently
and constantly be refining my message. And
so that's going to take like, refinement doesn't come from everyone saying,
you're great, you know, keep saying it. That those
(16:38):
edges are knocked off only through people pushing back and
saying, like, how you said that wasn't quite right.
And so just being like, humble and aware of that,
I think just goes such a long way. Yeah, a hundred percent. And
I think that this is actually a good problem to have, because
when we're putting ourselves out there online and people are having
(17:00):
a response to it, that means they're paying attention. Right? That means our,
our content actually got reach by people. And so we're getting that
feedback loop, that positive feedback loop or negative feedback loop. At least
we're getting some sort of traction and engagement. But I want to talk about the
other side of this, because a problem that I'm hearing a lot of people have
right now, especially on Instagram, is that that dang algorithm is not
(17:22):
showing our dang posts. Right. So what do we do? Like, is it too
crowded? What's the deal? Well, some really great
changes happened with the algorithm, and the algorithm is not out to get you. So
I first, like, I need people to just breathe that in. The algorithm is not
out to get you. Put it on a T shirt, Put. It on a T
shirt, Write it down every morning, the mantra. But
(17:43):
what we have to understand is, yes, there are more people
creating online, and there are more people online
than ever. And on Instagram and the algorithm, the
whole goal of the algorithm is to understand who you are and to
play matchmaker with people who it thinks will like your content. The
algorithm is actually trying to match us up with the right people,
(18:05):
and there's some things that get in the way of that, and one of those
is that we don't niche down. We're not clear on our content. So I'm all
about, like, looking at my content and saying, am I attracting the right person?
Am I consistent in my messaging? Am I using
keywords so Instagram understands what I'm talking about and am I doing
that on a consistent basis? And if I'm not, then that's on me,
(18:27):
that the algorithm doesn't understand me, you know, and then,
so I will look that, I will look at that, then I'll also look at
what does the algorithm want. So the algorithm, especially for our
content, it is looking for engagement cues.
So some of those are. And, well, the most valuable ones are
sharing and liking. That's what they told us. Then we have
(18:49):
commenting and saving. Those are next. But you have to think about,
okay, if I want my content to be seen by more people,
then, yeah, shares make sense, right? Because that person is
sharing it with someone else or sharing it to their stories. And so more people
are seeing it. And so I need to start creating content
with that in mind. So we have this
(19:10):
huge tool, we have this huge platform that has
millions and millions of people on it, and a huge portion
are your audience. And we have this
algorithm that's trying to figure out, like, who are you and how can
I show you to the right people so more people stay on Instagram. So it
is worth understanding and learning how Instagram works for
(19:32):
you and how the algorithm works and then creating specific
content that will work on Instagram. So short form content,
there are skills that, like, creating short form content is a skill.
It's not a gift bestowed from heaven. It is a skill that you. I mean,
yes, there's people that are better at it, naturally, but this is a skill that
you can learn. And so if you want to start using, using Instagram
(19:53):
to its fullest, you've got to start paying attention to how am I creating
short form videos? Do I have a hook within the first 3
seconds? Visual and written hook. Is it
something that is. Have I been like, have I been
ruthless in editing it so that it's not longer than it needs to be? And
my watch time goes up. We have to start thinking more like many
(20:15):
YouTube creators, because if you're a YouTube creator, you're thinking about all of this all
the time, right? But for Instagram,
we're getting better at search, the search engine's getting better. They promise it'll continue
to get better, and the algorithm's getting better.
So we have to be committed to being better content creators. And
the thing that is the coolest thing about the algorithm now,
(20:39):
this switch happened or Started to happen a year ago and it
finished up in, I think, February, where it does not
matter how many followers you have, it's a content
based algorithm. So if your content is good, no matter how many
followers you have, it can go to millions. And I just want you to think,
anytime, any other time in the world when we have had this
(21:00):
opportunity, this option to show up, create a 30 second video that takes
us nine hours. Just kidding. It doesn't have to be. But you create this little
video and it can reach millions of people all
while you're sitting at your daughter's softball game. Okay, okay, Maybe
I'd stop complaining and figure out how to make it work. Right? And it's a
lot of work. And Instagram, I think one of the biggest problems
(21:22):
or the hardest thing to overcome with Instagram is we
consume a lot of content as creators, we
consume a lot personally. And then it's really hard to switch our brain
around to using it professionally. And so that switch
is really hard. And so we either we have a couple things coming at
us right when we're using it for business, we have in our brain, like, you're
(21:43):
wasting time, you're wasting time. You're on Instagram. Look at, at, look at what your
screen time is, you know, and your weight. And it's like, yeah, you have that
voice going, especially if you're a mom or you have like, you have kids or
other responsibilities. You feel like you shouldn't be on social media,
it's bad. But then you have. But it's like, oh, but it's actually
one of the marketing arms of my business. And if it were any other marketing
(22:04):
arm, we would take it seriously. Right? We would look at it differently
and start looking at analytics and we'd be showing up in different ways
based on the responses of our audience. And then we start using Instagram as a
business instead of as a consumer. And instead of
like feeling like it's pulling us over and we don't know what to do.
Yeah, okay. I know you were joking when you said a 30 second video takes
(22:26):
nine hours. But my brain latched onto that because. Okay, so here's the thing.
I feel like you, you nailed it when you said creating content is a skill
that can be learned. But what I've seen in my experience
is that as adults especially, we all want to learn something new. Like we
just want to know, we just want to open it up and go, I know
how to use this. And then we don't. We get frustrated and it does take
(22:47):
some time. But once we do get there, we can create content. But
I'm curious about, you know, you specifically and then
also your clients, because I do think marketers, we spend more time on social media
than. Than, like, I was gonna say normal people. Are we
normal? No. I don't know. We. Yeah, we spend more time than normal
people. So how much time are you spending and then how much time do you
(23:08):
recommend other people spend on Insta? Wow,
how much time am I spending? I'm. I'm at least spending a couple hours a
day on Instagram. That is easy. Like either creating content, consuming content,
looking at my clients, you know, there's at least a couple
hours because, you know, as we're strategizing for clients, I am
(23:28):
researching, I'm looking at data, you know, it's just a little bit different.
I. As far as what other people should do,
I need you to make a conscious decision and not even a decision, but
just an awareness of how much marketing
are you. Like, how much is Instagram a part of your marketing strategy?
(23:49):
So if it is 100% a part of your market, like, that's your whole marketing
strategy is Instagram, buckle up, sit down. Like, you
need to get good at it. If you are paying ads
and like, that's how you're getting and you just need Instagram to be a resume,
then you can, you know, you can scale back. If you are a
business and you're big enough to hire a team,
(24:12):
you have to think about
like, am I going to hire workers or am I going to hire
skilled people and am I willing to invest in this?
Because, you know, you can find people who know how
to use Instagram, right? Have you anyway, you know, and they just show up and
they post stuff and you're like, that's not a strategy. And so we have to
(24:33):
start looking at Instagram differently. Like, it is serious and it is a hundred
percent. Like, if it's 100% of our marketing strategy, then that, that
changes things. So if you're. So you have to look at your budget,
whether that's time or money. And also, like, what are you
expecting Instagram to do? And is your energy and time and money
matching what you need that marketing channel to do?
(24:56):
Yes, yes. All of it has to flow because
it's. There's a hierarchy here. You can't go, like, I'm going to spend equal
amounts of time on Instagram as everything else in my business if it's not a
priority. Right. I love that. So what do think consistency looks
like, especially for the Solo entrepreneurs, the small
business owners who are out here on these Instagram streets trying to figure it
(25:17):
out. What does consistency look like?
Streets are hard out there. Yeah.
Consistency looks like. I mean, I'm going to go back to my last answer, but
it's going to look like what you can budget for. So
I want you to make a conscious decision. A lot of
people are like, well, I can only post three times a week.
(25:40):
Cool. I love that. Do that, you know, and
you, if you understand your audience, if you've created enough content
that you know what your audience likes, I do think you can create less
content. If you don't know and you don't know how to create
content, you don't know how to do hooks, you don't know how to edit, you
don't know how the type of thing that your audience is going to
(26:02):
resonate with, then I say create a ton of content. Like, just
put stuff out there, because you don't know what works yet and you don't know
how to do it. And I say that because
if you just like numbers, right? Analytics,
like, if you post two times a week, okay, that's eight times,
Eight times in a month. And then you have someone who's posting five times a
(26:25):
week, that's 20, you know, 20 posts. So they
are going to get better two and a half times faster than you
are because you haven't put in the time to do it. And you're
also like, as I'm looking at analytics and as clients come
on, I'm like, well, okay, the analytics for someone who's posting eight times a
month, there's just only so much information I can get compared to
(26:47):
someone who's doing like 20, 30 posts a month. And so
again, that doesn't mean everyone should post every day because that might stress someone out
and they become homeless on these Instagram streets. But I,
I don't want you to do that. But I do think that you need to
start thinking, like, real seriously about,
do I know what my audience likes and am I good? Do I know what
(27:10):
I'm good at yet and how my voice is best used? If the answer is
no, let's figure it out. Let's take a month, let's test some stuff out
and put a ton of content out there. I do, like, a real love
challenge every six months where I'm like, hey, this is. Is the
audio you're doing, this is the hook you're doing. And like,
this, like, I just tell people what to post and the people
(27:32):
who show up for those 30 days. And they do it like
they change. Either their numbers change or they, like, they
change because they suddenly know how to do stuff and they realize that they've been
making content creation way too hard. So you gotta get. You
gotta get consistent, like, with knowing exactly, like, what is your
goal with Instagram? And then what. What can you. What's your budget,
(27:54):
time and money that you can put towards Instagram? Yeah.
Okay, well, we've been talking a lot about, like, micro video content, the
Instagram reels specifically. But one of the things, too, about Instagram
that I think I feel so bad for, like, new people to Instagram, because
if you're just logging in for the first time, it's like, okay, we have reels,
we have carousels, we have static posts, we have stories. I know they're getting rid
(28:15):
of notes, but those are their broadcast channels. Like, what the heck? So when
you're talking about, you know, reels, for instance,
do you think that's where we should put most of our energy right now? There's
also been a rumor that carousel posts are making a comeback. Like, what are you
seeing on your end? So carousels are making a comeback, and
if you put music behind them, then they are able to show up on
(28:36):
a reels feed in your reels feed. So if you're doing carousels, add some
music, whether you turn it down or whatever, but then you can get in the
reels. So the reason why reels are usually where I tell people to start
is because. Because the reels algorithm
is different than the other algorithms in that it's pushing
your content faster and easier out to people who don't follow you yet.
(29:00):
And so if you want to grow, like, do that. But carousels are coming
around. And especially now that carousels are being able to be used in the
real feed, you just got to make sure as
you're creating these carousels that you can say, like, why would anyone care about
this? Because a lot of people are just, like, using them as
2010 blog posts. Like, five steps to creating a diet
(29:22):
plan. You know, the 2010 blog post, I feel called
out. I just know it personally. I just know it
personally anyway. And so, like, you know where it's like, no one's gonna click that.
Like, five, 10, you know, five steps to
your next morning routine. Those hooks don't work
anymore because they're just, like, telling you there's no curiosity gap. There's no
(29:44):
bringing you in. There's no, like, why? What's in it for me? And so
I Think that sometimes, unless you're a great writer and you already know, like,
the stories that you're going to tell and you can bring people with you, and
if you're that side, then carousels are going to be great for you. If you're
like writing and telling stories, you know, like, I don't want to do that,
then reels are going to be easier. Yeah. Okay.
(30:06):
Interesting. No, the 2010 blog post is like, so, like,
I knew exactly what you were talking about. I was like, oh, So I think
this is what I've been talking. This is what I've been talking about a lot
too. That 2010 blog post line is going to stay with me
because it is the shift from how to
content to how I content. So I think this is where
(30:26):
personal brands are really shining through. Because we don't need
more information. We're in the age of information overload. Like, we literally don't need
more how to. We want to know how you specifically do it. Like,
so when I talk about things like, you know,
I wake up, I don't feel like posting. What am I doing? That's what I'm
doing specifically versus, like, if you wake up and you don't feel posting, here's what
(30:50):
you need to do. And it feels very like you should eat your vegetables. And
so I feel like that's really. The 2010 blog post vibe
is like, eat your vegetables versus 2025. The
elevated is like, okay, I don't feel like eating my vegetables. I'm going to show
you what I'm doing. And I feel like that, like, reality TV
show, like, let's go with me behind the scenes and let's do all this. I
(31:10):
feel like that's really what's working right now with content. Is there anything else that
you're seeing that really stands out to you with, like, like, oh, this is the
typ content that's really performing well right now. Yeah, I mean, I
think it's exactly what you're saying because
we can find any information we want and we can go to ChatGPT
and it will get a summary of all the information out there. But
(31:32):
what we really want are we want experts
that will curate it for us. So we want,
like, we want someone else that lives a life that we want to live to
tell us what works for them. You know, like, that is.
That's. That's what this is all about, right? Is that we've suddenly we. We
have AI. We can all find out whatever we want
(31:54):
and that type of information will be less Valuable than
what you're saying, right? Which is like, listen, I got two kids,
you know, like your life. And explaining like, this is. I, you know, I'm
recording podcasts, this is what I do before my podcast to make sure I'm ready
or whatever. Because then we're like, oh, that's how she
does it. And my life looks like hers, or I want my life to look
(32:16):
like hers. And so as AI becomes,
I mean, it's already huge, right? But we're going to see it
integrated so much more. And really it's going to come down to that personal
connection and building, like, being that
curator for people. Like, listen, yeah, you can, you can go get the 10
steps from ChatGPT, but let me tell you, the, like, how
(32:39):
I do it as this type of person. So that's where I see
things going, is like, the facts are going to be
good and you're going to have to know them. We're going to have to know
more because it's the application that's really going to be the valuable part.
Yeah, I feel like this is just the age of AI too.
Is that, like, the knowledge piece is not going to be enough. It's how
(33:00):
we apply it that's really going to make the difference. It can be scary.
It can be scary. But I do think there are ways that AI can help
us in this next stage. To me, it reminds me of
when I was in the second grade or third grade grade. I
distinctly remember one of my teachers making me do math and I
was like, but I have this calculator. Can I use the calculator? And she was
(33:21):
like, no, you have to know how to do it because you're not going to
be carrying a calculator in your pocket all the time. And now look, look at
me now, Ms. Anderson. I have a calculator in my
pocket all the time. And so that's how AI feels to me right now, where
it's like, some people are like, oh, you have to do the manual work of
it all. And I'm like, yeah, I know how to do the manual work, don't
get me wrong. But, like, if there's a calculator, I'm gonna use the calculator.
(33:43):
So I say all that. I'm curious how you are using AI, AKA
the calculator in your, like, marketing day to
day. Yeah. So, well, sometimes I have little
chats with ChatGPT, and I'm like, hey, this is a decision I'm,
I'm making and I list all the details and then it comes back to me
and it's like, michelle, I think you already know the answer, but this is what
(34:05):
I recommend. It's funny. Anyway, that did happen, like, where, like, I need
to talk through something because I'm a verbal processor. And so,
like, so I have it on my phone. I just speak into
it, and I'm like, hey, here are the details of my business. I also am
restructuring some of my products. And so I was like, hey, let me tell you
what my products are. These are the price points. This is my revenue
(34:26):
goal. Can you make a map for me this year of when I should
launch and how many I need to sell of each to get there?
And it can. Like, those are things that I'm going to go. I would have
have figured out, right? But it would have taken me 20 minutes
and I'd had to have stopped and pulled out my phone calculator. But this,
I'm like, I'm on the go. Like, I'm in the car. I was running errand,
(34:47):
like, taking my kids to practice, you know, doing stuff. And
I was like, oh, I got to figure out, like, my numbers. And so I
was just talking to it. So that's something that is. I was like, that's just
a practical thing. I've had
quite a few, like, speeches that I have had to give the last. Last month
or so. And I would write. I would write it
(35:09):
and write, like, sections, and I would say, okay, chat gpd.
I need. I need you to make this more. Because I'm.
Because my background is pr. I'm a very, like, newspaper writer, where I'm like,
these are the facts. And so I was like, could you
add a little bit for storytelling and make this a little stronger? And it just
shifted it a little bit, but it made it stronger. I've been doing the same
(35:31):
thing with. So I'm the first draft and been doing that with
substance and just saying, like, hey, this is
a story. This is. You know, and because I'm a verbal processor and I have
my own podcast, like, speaking, it is easier than writing it for me, so it
can write down whatever I say, add some things. So. And I'm using
it for that kind of thing, for editing my
(35:54):
content, that kind of stuff, as well as analyzing
data and. Yeah, just making and
streamlining the process, which. Which feels scary, I think, right now
because it feels like it's taking away the creativity, you know, because
it's like, well, we're not creating all of it. And I'm like, no, I'm not
creating the Dumb parts, The parts that I don't want to do,
(36:15):
I do not want to do that part right. And it's actually opening up
me up to be more creative because, like, those little
things that are not necessarily. Maybe not my strong suit or
like, stuff that, like, speaking is easier. Speaking it
into existence is easier than typing it into existence for me.
And so I'm using my skills. Like, I'm just better at speaking it
(36:38):
out than. And it's turning it into something that can be written or,
you know, could be published and I can edit it. And so what I decided
to do is I'm like, listen, we're all scared of AI
and we feel overwhelmed by it. And so I was. I'm like, I'm going to
just start using it. I'm just going to use it. And if I
think about it, I'm going to pick it up, download it on your phone, and
(36:59):
I'm going to use it. And just doing that has opened me up to
more and more ways that I can use it to streamline my business and to
take away some of the unnecessary parts to
creating. Yeah, I think that's the key. Streamlining it. Yeah,
it's faster. But again, it's like our calculator.
Sure, you can be all precious about doing long
(37:22):
division manually. Good for you. I'm glad you could do that. But
real life, everyday stuff, as long as we get
to the same answer, we, you know, we're still using our
human brains, I think. I think it's great. Okay, so as we wrap up this
conversation, one of the things I want to ask you about
is really this mindset piece when it comes to creating
(37:44):
content, and especially now, like, this episode comes out,
we're heading into summer. Those of us with the kids, we're like, all right, summer
mode. So over the next 30 days, what's something
that we can think about? A mental shift that we can make to really strengthen
our approach to creating content on Instagram and really everywhere in our
market. Yeah, I would definitely
(38:06):
put it on the calendar. So as
creatives, I don't really believe in being like, this is how
you create content. So some people really like to batch and other people,
like, that makes them want to die. Like, batching a whole ton of content.
And there's obviously some power and some benefits to batching, but if you dread
it all the time, then I don't love that. So one of the things is
(38:29):
like, like, you either say, on Mondays, I. I do all my video
and I'm just going to like, I'M going to get my makeup on, I'm going
to get ready, and we're going to do all the video and do a bunch
all at once and just video it and batch it in. In the different
stages of the content creation process. I also know
someone, some people who like to, like, just schedule on their calendar
that every day I have 30 minutes, that I'm going to create something
(38:53):
so that it's more a part of their, like, everyday routine. But it
doesn't happen unless you put it on a schedule and on a
calendar and it, like in a meeting that you would show up for. Because
what usually happens is you want to
create on Instagram, but then you don't, right? And then you get to the
end of the week and you're like, oh, man, I should have posted. And then
(39:15):
you scroll and then you scroll on Instagram for like an hour looking for ideas,
and then you find something and then you're like, I'm just going to post this.
And so you just post it. And then you're like, that didn't do well. And
they're like, instagram's the worst. The algorithm hates me. Right? And you actually
haven't taken time to create intentional
strategic content or, or calculate a
(39:36):
time and put in your calendar time when you're going to analyze what is working
and what isn't. So as far as that goes, you
need to start treating Instagram like it's part of your business
and not just a last thing like, that you put on,
you know, the end of your list that you're like, well, I know this is
important, but I really hate it because the algorithm hates me because I'm not getting
(39:57):
what I want. And it's like, well, if you showed up on Instagram or showed
up for Instagram, like, you're showing up for, like, creating your product or creating your
courses or teaching your whatever, you know, whatever type of entrepreneur you are,
then your Instagram content would change, and so would how
Instagram can help and serve your business 100%.
It's your responsibility as a business owner to treat marketing seriously in your business.
(40:20):
I totally agree. And I love that you said, you know, you can kind of
play with it, whether you like batching or you like doing things day by day.
I mean, there are different seasons in my life where I do both. Like, sometimes
I'm like, batch queen. Like right now, batching all the way, like,
makeup every day is not for me right now. But there are some days
where, where periods in my life where, you know, I like to create
(40:42):
content every day. That's actually my preferred method of doing it, is creating content
every day. But like, with a one year old at home, where I'm literally recording
podcast episodes while she's napping, it's not gonna happen every day. So for me,
I gotta, I gotta plan ahead. I gotta plan ahead. So, you know, you get
to decide this. You gotta treat your marketing seriously. I love that you that you
emphasize that. Okay, so for everyone listening
(41:04):
who's like, I love this. I'm limited on time. I know you've got,
Michelle, this like weekly trend thingy.
Plus plus, I love how you not only give the trends, but
then you tell us exactly how to apply them. Tell me more about it.
Yes, absolutely. So I have a membership
that you can join and I'll give you a week for free to test it
(41:25):
out where we are sending, like the trends that are happening that week.
We send that out and then with examples and a description of how
you can apply it to your business. Because I mean,
looking for the right trend is actually the worst waste of time.
That, like, it's so hard, right? You go on there and you're like, okay, I
like this, but how many times has it been used and like, how can I
(41:47):
apply it to your business? So we're streamlining that for you
so that you can, like, just start creating content in a lot, like a lot
faster. Um, so that's called the Insta Content Club. We'd love to
have you. And if you use mindful marketing, you can get a week for
free. I love that. Okay, we're going to put that link and the code in
the description onlinedrea.com 363.
(42:09):
Michelle, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so
much. It was so fun. Yes. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning into another
episode of the Mindville marketing podcast. If you love this conversation and
you want to learn more about how to apply marketing in your business,
come to our Social Media Day summit. Okay. We're doing a free Social Media
Day summit, a live panel on June 30th.
(42:32):
That's a Monday. Okay. Come join me and some special guests where
we talk about the state of social media, especially y' all. Keep talking about the
algorithm. We're gonna talk about the algorithm, we're gonna talk about AI. We're gonna talk
about it all. You can get your questions answered, but you gotta show up live
for that. Go to online draft.com smd
that social media day smd and that link will be in the show. Notes as
(42:53):
well. I have another episode coming for you next Tuesday. Stay
tuned for that. I'll see you then. Bye for now.
There's a little rumor going around in the Internet space that it's too
crowded. And today I have Michelle Guilford on the show to talk about how
you can stand out despite the crowding that's happening in
our lovely Internet spaces, especially our favorite Instagram. So
we'll get into that and more in the 363rd episode of the
Mindful Marketing Podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor.
(00:23):
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Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most
(00:46):
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(01:08):
the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA D
R E A at checkout to get 15% off your
membership. Michelle, welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you so much for having me. This is going to be a good
conversation. I'm excited. I'm excited we were talking about
before that. I'm just nosy, so I'm excited to be like, so what you really
doing? I'm thrilled to have this conversation, but just to kind of
(01:31):
frame and set the stage for everyone listening. Give us like the 30,
60 second spiel about you and your business.
Sure. I am an Instagram marketing and social media
strategist and I have a marketing agency where we do it for you
and I also am teaching it and I'm also building my own brand. So I
try to hit it at every side. So I am helping people who are like
(01:54):
far along. Right. And we're doing it for them in our agency and. And
then I'm teaching people who are starting and growing. So I am
deeply entrenched every day in Instagram and
where people are struggling with Instagram and what's working. So I'm excited to.
I'm excited to dive in. Yeah, me too. Because I so
my background for listeners and for you too, Michelle. I also used to owned a
(02:16):
social media agency and of course I teach social media as well. And like, it's
one of Those things where we have job security because it's always
changing. And also, like, don't try
to learn this for yourself. Like, this is literally our job. So come to us,
get the info, get the details. So tell me, you know,
with Instagram, especially here, now in 2025,
(02:39):
it, there are a lot of, shall we say,
trends happening. So I want to start the conversation with, you know, someone
coming into this. They're looking at the scope, they're looking at the landscape of Instagram
and they're like, how do I balance all of this? I've got the trending content
and I gotta, I don't know, talk about my. What are some of the steps
that you have your clients and customers think about when they're approaching
(03:00):
Instagram today? Sure. So one of the things that will
completely change how you show up on Instagram is to realize that different pieces
of content have different goals. So if we
know that, and I'll dive in just a little bit, but if we know that,
then we don't have to stress out if this one doesn't perform well, doesn't get
as many views, or if this one does because we have goals. So I
(03:21):
like to break up my content into the attract, nurture,
sell method, which is what I teach. It's what my, my agency does.
But like, we're going to create some content to attract new people in.
We're also going to create some content to nurture people. And
then of course we're going to sell too and to realize that different pieces of
content have different goals. So maybe those trends are what
(03:44):
we jump on to attract new people in. And then we've
really got to establish ourself as the expert as well as, like, get people
connected to us. And so that would be more nurture content. And then we have
sell content, which would be like testimonials or maybe
just looking at like, look, someone, we did this for the client
and now they have this. Or showing if you're a designer or something like that,
(04:06):
where you're actually showing what you do and asking people
to buy. Do you think there's a brand that like, trends don't
work for at all? Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's absolutely true. So I don't think trends are for everyone.
I think that you can do trending audio that's, you know, just in the background,
(04:26):
that doesn't necessarily make you play one way or the other that
can help you. But as far as trends, like, you have to look at your
brand and, and make sure, like I always look at
resonance. Like, will this resonate with my audience? So you have
people that are. Maybe I should clarify, but when you're talking about
trends, do you mean, like, people are doing this dance
(04:48):
move or whatever? Yeah. Or even, like, memes and stuff?
Like, every time it's like the Grammys or the Oscars or
even, like, the Olympics, it's like everyone and their mom is posting a meme. And
sometimes I'm like, okay, yeah, I totally can hop on this, but most of the
time, it's not for me. So I'm always curious how
people are approaching these. And, like, how do we decide if it is
(05:09):
for me or if it isn't? Yeah. So I look at timing and
resonance. Those are the two things that I think about. So if you.
If it's like the Oscars and it's a week late, you missed it. You missed
the boat. It's almost like the. It's like the first.
The first day. That's about all you have. And that's the same with other trends.
Like, I always think if I've scrolled on Instagram for 5
(05:31):
to 10 minutes and either seen that trend more than once
or whether it's like a meme or, you know, like, around an event or
not, but, like, am I already annoyed with it? Okay, then I'm not going to
create more content about it. The second thing is, does this. Will this
resonate with my audience? And does this resonate with me? And if the
answer is no, don't do it, like, there is no need to jump on a
(05:53):
trend, especially if your energy is not there and it's. And
if your audience is going to be like, meh, pass, you know, but if
there's something that you get real excited about, that it would be fun
and it would be easy to create, I say test it, you know, and. Because
that's what we're doing is, like, just testing content. So there are
accounts that are much more serious, right? They are the experts, and they're like,
(06:15):
hey, every day they show up and they do talking head
videos. It would be weird if they were like. And then the Oscars.
And let's. Let's talk about, like, what everyone wore, right?
That would not. It would not fit into their brand or their niche. But
there are current events that do happen that make sense. And so we just have
to be aware of that. And also just be aware when. Like, when you get
(06:37):
that ick feeling like, that's not for me, then you just don't do it, and
that's totally fine. And that's why we get to build our own brands. Yeah.
I mean, I always say, like, you don't. You don't really know where a boundary
is until you cross it or until that line is tested. And I think that's
true for trends, too. Sometimes you don't know how cringe it is until you do
it. But I will say this, too. Sometimes I love stuff, and my people don't
(06:59):
like it. Like, I am a huge fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. Like,
literally obsessing every season. Every Spin off season. I listen to podcasts about
the show. Like, I am a little too far gone. And
I. There was a point in time where, like, I even had, like, whole
episodes with, like, Spin off titles about Drag Race, and people were like,
okay, Andrea, like, calm down. And so some of it is
(07:21):
testing too. Like, I like it, but my people don't like it that much. So
I have to. I have to use my Drag Race references sparingly,
otherwise people start tuning out. And I think this is the beauty of marketing, right?
Like, we can have fun with it. We can has things in play and stuff,
but at the end of the day, we kind of have to look at the
data and move forward. So do you. Do you have any examples of that where
you're like, I really love this. And then people are like, okay, Michelle, calm down.
(07:45):
Well, I think, like, I think with your specific example,
it's really good because it makes you say, like, this is something that we
have to figure out as personal brands is, like, what
is the level of excitement that, like, for
specific things that I want to bring and does it make sense and does it
enhance my brand or does it take away from it?
(08:08):
And like you said, sometimes you're like, ooh, got caught up. You know, got
caught up. That doesn't resonate as much as I want. And I mean, like, I
talk about this is not the same, but.
But I am the coach for my girls softball teams,
and I'm, like, talking about in stories all the time, and. And sometimes I'm like,
oh, I don't know that everyone actually cares that much about this, you
(08:30):
know, and it's okay to layer it in, and it's okay for it to be
a thing, but just to be, like, just aw.
We get to be very intentional about how we build our brands. And
part of that intention is listening and saying, like, And. And
just, like, feeling, reading the room, the energy. Like, are people.
Is this. Is this getting. Bringing people in, or is it repelling people?
(08:53):
And I mean, like, Sometimes it's like, well, maybe that does repel people.
That's fine. Is it repelling the right people or is it, you know, people that
are my people that I'm trying to talk to, Is it repelling them
or is it bringing them closer? And so I think just like
paying attention to that and just know that you're probably very
few people, very few marketers, very, very few personal brands
(09:15):
are going to just like ruin it with one post. There are people
who have. And we could dive into that. But like, you know, but like,
but like, but very few of us with these kind of things. We're not going
to ruin. We're not going to ruin it so we can test things out
and see how it feels. See how it feels, the post. See how the energy
that comes back. Yeah, okay, I do want to get back to that
(09:36):
ruining moment because I think we need to talk about that. But I do have
a nosy question that popped up earlier for me, which is you talked about,
you know, post about your girls soccer practices. Was it soccer or
softball? Softball. And so this is like a boundaries question
because I think some people, me included,
feel hesitant to put our kids or our families online
(09:59):
or even like our personal lives and things like that. So especially for personal
brands, how do you decide this for yourself? Like, where
are your own boundaries when it comes to social media? Really great
question. So my kids,
my content is not dependent on my kids. That is something I feel very
passionate about and I'm not an influencer, so I can do that.
(10:21):
Right. But we all have to figure out what that boundary is for ourselves.
So it's mostly in my stories that I talk about softball and I
don't share anyone else on the team. Right. And I don't share
much about my girls. But one of the things, like my connecting
points with my audience is that I'm a mom and I'm running
an agency and a business and I still have time for
(10:44):
softball. So it is a part of my story that I want to
underline, but I don't, I share enough to know
that it's happening. But I'm not. Like, I take
my kids. I have five kids. I have a
senior in high schooler. I mean senior in high school down to
a nine year old. And so like, it's one thing to show your kids when
(11:07):
they're little, but I have my son's
friends follow me on Instagram, so I am very
aware and I will ask them, like, hey,
you know, like, if I'm sharing something about our family or sharing a family
picture, I'm like, hey, you good with this or not? You know,
and because they, I have an adult, he's 18, he's
(11:28):
graduating and I have to respect that he's an adult.
And I also have to respect that my kids are going to be adults and
do I want people to know all of this stuff about them. Now
with my softball teams, I have a 9 year old and a
12 year old, girls who both play softball. And
that's about, I mean, you feel close, like you like know what's going on,
(11:51):
but you don't actually know specifics. And that's kind of where
my line is. And I asked my kids and like, do you want to,
do you want me to share about this or not? You know, and because again,
my content is not dependent on my kids, but me as
a mom, knowing people, knowing that I'm a mom and that I'm doing this, I
want that energy to be like, and you can do it too. And so I
(12:13):
do share some glimpses into my motherhood. Yeah, I
love that. And like I'm a new mom. So I have a three year old
and a one year old and I love it. When you said five
kids, like, my heart panicked. Like I was like, oh my God, never.
I mean, bless you. Good for you. One is harder than five almost. I
don't know, one's a lot. Listen, two, I can make
(12:35):
a whole podcast series on having two kids versus one because I would. I feel
like I was tricked. But I love them. I love them very much. No,
but it is one of those things too where for me
right now, in this period in my life, when I look at people who I
admire, like other business owners, other content creators, I am
looking for people who have similar lives to me, right?
(12:57):
People who I feel like I can follow their advice because,
you know, they're in it with me. People who, like, it doesn't even have to
be kids. Like it could be, you know, maybe they're taking care of aging parents
or they have chronic illness or, you know, there's something where
it's like, you know, the Gary Vee model doesn't fit. Like wake up at 6am,
post literally all day. Like we don't have time for that. Like
(13:19):
we're living our lives. And so that's why I like that you, that you reflect
that back too. I want to circle back though, to this
idea of posting content and getting a negative
response because we've all seen it, We've all seen it. And I
think that I Have my own theories, but I'm curious to hear yours about,
you know, when we do cross that line, when we do post something
(13:42):
insensitive or we get feedback from our community that they're like, hey, we
don't like this. How do we navigate those situations? With
like, grace? Yeah. I think that most,
at least the audience that I am trying to build is pretty forgiving
because they know that I'm just doing the best I can.
So if I said something that was insensitive or
(14:05):
that like looking back, I'm like, oof, that wasn't
great. You know, I would hope that I. I mean,
public relations is my background. That's like what I majored in. And anyway,
where how I first started in business and really just like
owning up to it and being like, darn it, okay,
let's move on. You know, like, this is what I'm going to do better
(14:28):
or whatever. But I think, I mean, that's. If we're doing something that maybe was
hurtful or harmful, if it's like playful and it's just like, oh, that didn't
resonate and like I got bad comments, then it's like,
I, I will look and see where those comments are coming from. Because if they're
my people and it's like, oh, Michelle, this is a bad showing.
I'm gonna look at that and self reflect and say,
(14:49):
yeah, is that true? And what do I need to change? Because I will tell
you, I am not here to be perfect. And I know that I am not,
you know, and I'm very aware of that. And so
I don't think I need to. Let's see. Not every comment that
is given to me has the same value to me because you have passersby
who have no idea who I am. One of my first viral reels a
(15:10):
couple years ago was like, listen, I was newly back to the gym.
I was rowing on my, like on the rowing machine and doing a real bad
job of it, but by darn, I was there. Anyway, so I just posted a
B roll video of me rowing with like something else on the screen and
my. That blew up because people are real
passionate about rowing form, apparently. Well, now you
(15:31):
know, now I know. And every time I'm like, okay, I'm better
than I was two and a half years ago. But it's also, you see,
like those moments are funny because I'm like, I mean, that
means very little about me as a person, how I
row. So those are the things that I'm looking at is like, is this Is
there's a self reflection. Are the, Is this from someone that
(15:54):
I value their opinion, who, who knows who I am? And if
not, then I'm like, but if so, I say, oh, okay, like,
what do I need to learn from that? And how can I do better and
be better or just maybe be clearer? Because I've said some things where people have
said, oh, Michelle, have you thought about this? And I was like, oh, we're on
the same page. But I obviously wasn't clear enough. And so then that helps me
(16:14):
refine my message and I can't be. I.
I think my job as a content creator and
as an educator and as a thought leader is to consistently
and constantly be refining my message. And
so that's going to take like, refinement doesn't come from everyone saying,
you're great, you know, keep saying it. That those
(16:38):
edges are knocked off only through people pushing back and
saying, like, how you said that wasn't quite right.
And so just being like, humble and aware of that,
I think just goes such a long way. Yeah, a hundred percent. And
I think that this is actually a good problem to have, because
when we're putting ourselves out there online and people are having
(17:00):
a response to it, that means they're paying attention. Right? That means our,
our content actually got reach by people. And so we're getting that
feedback loop, that positive feedback loop or negative feedback loop. At least
we're getting some sort of traction and engagement. But I want to talk about the
other side of this, because a problem that I'm hearing a lot of people have
right now, especially on Instagram, is that that dang algorithm is not
(17:22):
showing our dang posts. Right. So what do we do? Like, is it too
crowded? What's the deal? Well, some really great
changes happened with the algorithm, and the algorithm is not out to get you. So
I first, like, I need people to just breathe that in. The algorithm is not
out to get you. Put it on a T shirt, Put. It on a T
shirt, Write it down every morning, the mantra. But
(17:43):
what we have to understand is, yes, there are more people
creating online, and there are more people online
than ever. And on Instagram and the algorithm, the
whole goal of the algorithm is to understand who you are and to
play matchmaker with people who it thinks will like your content. The
algorithm is actually trying to match us up with the right people,
(18:05):
and there's some things that get in the way of that, and one of those
is that we don't niche down. We're not clear on our content. So I'm all
about, like, looking at my content and saying, am I attracting the right person?
Am I consistent in my messaging? Am I using
keywords so Instagram understands what I'm talking about and am I doing
that on a consistent basis? And if I'm not, then that's on me,
(18:27):
that the algorithm doesn't understand me, you know, and then,
so I will look that, I will look at that, then I'll also look at
what does the algorithm want. So the algorithm, especially for our
content, it is looking for engagement cues.
So some of those are. And, well, the most valuable ones are
sharing and liking. That's what they told us. Then we have
(18:49):
commenting and saving. Those are next. But you have to think about,
okay, if I want my content to be seen by more people,
then, yeah, shares make sense, right? Because that person is
sharing it with someone else or sharing it to their stories. And so more people
are seeing it. And so I need to start creating content
with that in mind. So we have this
(19:10):
huge tool, we have this huge platform that has
millions and millions of people on it, and a huge portion
are your audience. And we have this
algorithm that's trying to figure out, like, who are you and how can
I show you to the right people so more people stay on Instagram. So it
is worth understanding and learning how Instagram works for
(19:32):
you and how the algorithm works and then creating specific
content that will work on Instagram. So short form content,
there are skills that, like, creating short form content is a skill.
It's not a gift bestowed from heaven. It is a skill that you. I mean,
yes, there's people that are better at it, naturally, but this is a skill that
you can learn. And so if you want to start using, using Instagram
(19:53):
to its fullest, you've got to start paying attention to how am I creating
short form videos? Do I have a hook within the first 3
seconds? Visual and written hook. Is it
something that is. Have I been like, have I been
ruthless in editing it so that it's not longer than it needs to be? And
my watch time goes up. We have to start thinking more like many
(20:15):
YouTube creators, because if you're a YouTube creator, you're thinking about all of this all
the time, right? But for Instagram,
we're getting better at search, the search engine's getting better. They promise it'll continue
to get better, and the algorithm's getting better.
So we have to be committed to being better content creators. And
the thing that is the coolest thing about the algorithm now,
(20:39):
this switch happened or Started to happen a year ago and it
finished up in, I think, February, where it does not
matter how many followers you have, it's a content
based algorithm. So if your content is good, no matter how many
followers you have, it can go to millions. And I just want you to think,
anytime, any other time in the world when we have had this
(21:00):
opportunity, this option to show up, create a 30 second video that takes
us nine hours. Just kidding. It doesn't have to be. But you create this little
video and it can reach millions of people all
while you're sitting at your daughter's softball game. Okay, okay, Maybe
I'd stop complaining and figure out how to make it work. Right? And it's a
lot of work. And Instagram, I think one of the biggest problems
(21:22):
or the hardest thing to overcome with Instagram is we
consume a lot of content as creators, we
consume a lot personally. And then it's really hard to switch our brain
around to using it professionally. And so that switch
is really hard. And so we either we have a couple things coming at
us right when we're using it for business, we have in our brain, like, you're
(21:43):
wasting time, you're wasting time. You're on Instagram. Look at, at, look at what your
screen time is, you know, and your weight. And it's like, yeah, you have that
voice going, especially if you're a mom or you have like, you have kids or
other responsibilities. You feel like you shouldn't be on social media,
it's bad. But then you have. But it's like, oh, but it's actually
one of the marketing arms of my business. And if it were any other marketing
(22:04):
arm, we would take it seriously. Right? We would look at it differently
and start looking at analytics and we'd be showing up in different ways
based on the responses of our audience. And then we start using Instagram as a
business instead of as a consumer. And instead of
like feeling like it's pulling us over and we don't know what to do.
Yeah, okay. I know you were joking when you said a 30 second video takes
(22:26):
nine hours. But my brain latched onto that because. Okay, so here's the thing.
I feel like you, you nailed it when you said creating content is a skill
that can be learned. But what I've seen in my experience
is that as adults especially, we all want to learn something new. Like we
just want to know, we just want to open it up and go, I know
how to use this. And then we don't. We get frustrated and it does take
(22:47):
some time. But once we do get there, we can create content. But
I'm curious about, you know, you specifically and then
also your clients, because I do think marketers, we spend more time on social media
than. Than, like, I was gonna say normal people. Are we
normal? No. I don't know. We. Yeah, we spend more time than normal
people. So how much time are you spending and then how much time do you
(23:08):
recommend other people spend on Insta? Wow,
how much time am I spending? I'm. I'm at least spending a couple hours a
day on Instagram. That is easy. Like either creating content, consuming content,
looking at my clients, you know, there's at least a couple
hours because, you know, as we're strategizing for clients, I am
(23:28):
researching, I'm looking at data, you know, it's just a little bit different.
I. As far as what other people should do,
I need you to make a conscious decision and not even a decision, but
just an awareness of how much marketing
are you. Like, how much is Instagram a part of your marketing strategy?
(23:49):
So if it is 100% a part of your market, like, that's your whole marketing
strategy is Instagram, buckle up, sit down. Like, you
need to get good at it. If you are paying ads
and like, that's how you're getting and you just need Instagram to be a resume,
then you can, you know, you can scale back. If you are a
business and you're big enough to hire a team,
(24:12):
you have to think about
like, am I going to hire workers or am I going to hire
skilled people and am I willing to invest in this?
Because, you know, you can find people who know how
to use Instagram, right? Have you anyway, you know, and they just show up and
they post stuff and you're like, that's not a strategy. And so we have to
(24:33):
start looking at Instagram differently. Like, it is serious and it is a hundred
percent. Like, if it's 100% of our marketing strategy, then that, that
changes things. So if you're. So you have to look at your budget,
whether that's time or money. And also, like, what are you
expecting Instagram to do? And is your energy and time and money
matching what you need that marketing channel to do?
(24:56):
Yes, yes. All of it has to flow because
it's. There's a hierarchy here. You can't go, like, I'm going to spend equal
amounts of time on Instagram as everything else in my business if it's not a
priority. Right. I love that. So what do think consistency looks
like, especially for the Solo entrepreneurs, the small
business owners who are out here on these Instagram streets trying to figure it
(25:17):
out. What does consistency look like?
Streets are hard out there. Yeah.
Consistency looks like. I mean, I'm going to go back to my last answer, but
it's going to look like what you can budget for. So
I want you to make a conscious decision. A lot of
people are like, well, I can only post three times a week.
(25:40):
Cool. I love that. Do that, you know, and
you, if you understand your audience, if you've created enough content
that you know what your audience likes, I do think you can create less
content. If you don't know and you don't know how to create
content, you don't know how to do hooks, you don't know how to edit, you
don't know how the type of thing that your audience is going to
(26:02):
resonate with, then I say create a ton of content. Like, just
put stuff out there, because you don't know what works yet and you don't know
how to do it. And I say that because
if you just like numbers, right? Analytics,
like, if you post two times a week, okay, that's eight times,
Eight times in a month. And then you have someone who's posting five times a
(26:25):
week, that's 20, you know, 20 posts. So they
are going to get better two and a half times faster than you
are because you haven't put in the time to do it. And you're
also like, as I'm looking at analytics and as clients come
on, I'm like, well, okay, the analytics for someone who's posting eight times a
month, there's just only so much information I can get compared to
(26:47):
someone who's doing like 20, 30 posts a month. And so
again, that doesn't mean everyone should post every day because that might stress someone out
and they become homeless on these Instagram streets. But I,
I don't want you to do that. But I do think that you need to
start thinking, like, real seriously about,
do I know what my audience likes and am I good? Do I know what
(27:10):
I'm good at yet and how my voice is best used? If the answer is
no, let's figure it out. Let's take a month, let's test some stuff out
and put a ton of content out there. I do, like, a real love
challenge every six months where I'm like, hey, this is. Is the
audio you're doing, this is the hook you're doing. And like,
this, like, I just tell people what to post and the people
(27:32):
who show up for those 30 days. And they do it like
they change. Either their numbers change or they, like, they
change because they suddenly know how to do stuff and they realize that they've been
making content creation way too hard. So you gotta get. You
gotta get consistent, like, with knowing exactly, like, what is your
goal with Instagram? And then what. What can you. What's your budget,
(27:54):
time and money that you can put towards Instagram? Yeah.
Okay, well, we've been talking a lot about, like, micro video content, the
Instagram reels specifically. But one of the things, too, about Instagram
that I think I feel so bad for, like, new people to Instagram, because
if you're just logging in for the first time, it's like, okay, we have reels,
we have carousels, we have static posts, we have stories. I know they're getting rid
(28:15):
of notes, but those are their broadcast channels. Like, what the heck? So when
you're talking about, you know, reels, for instance,
do you think that's where we should put most of our energy right now? There's
also been a rumor that carousel posts are making a comeback. Like, what are you
seeing on your end? So carousels are making a comeback, and
if you put music behind them, then they are able to show up on
(28:36):
a reels feed in your reels feed. So if you're doing carousels, add some
music, whether you turn it down or whatever, but then you can get in the
reels. So the reason why reels are usually where I tell people to start
is because. Because the reels algorithm
is different than the other algorithms in that it's pushing
your content faster and easier out to people who don't follow you yet.
(29:00):
And so if you want to grow, like, do that. But carousels are coming
around. And especially now that carousels are being able to be used in the
real feed, you just got to make sure as
you're creating these carousels that you can say, like, why would anyone care about
this? Because a lot of people are just, like, using them as
2010 blog posts. Like, five steps to creating a diet
(29:22):
plan. You know, the 2010 blog post, I feel called
out. I just know it personally. I just know it
personally anyway. And so, like, you know where it's like, no one's gonna click that.
Like, five, 10, you know, five steps to
your next morning routine. Those hooks don't work
anymore because they're just, like, telling you there's no curiosity gap. There's no
(29:44):
bringing you in. There's no, like, why? What's in it for me? And so
I Think that sometimes, unless you're a great writer and you already know, like,
the stories that you're going to tell and you can bring people with you, and
if you're that side, then carousels are going to be great for you. If you're
like writing and telling stories, you know, like, I don't want to do that,
then reels are going to be easier. Yeah. Okay.
(30:06):
Interesting. No, the 2010 blog post is like, so, like,
I knew exactly what you were talking about. I was like, oh, So I think
this is what I've been talking. This is what I've been talking about a lot
too. That 2010 blog post line is going to stay with me
because it is the shift from how to
content to how I content. So I think this is where
(30:26):
personal brands are really shining through. Because we don't need
more information. We're in the age of information overload. Like, we literally don't need
more how to. We want to know how you specifically do it. Like,
so when I talk about things like, you know,
I wake up, I don't feel like posting. What am I doing? That's what I'm
doing specifically versus, like, if you wake up and you don't feel posting, here's what
(30:50):
you need to do. And it feels very like you should eat your vegetables. And
so I feel like that's really. The 2010 blog post vibe
is like, eat your vegetables versus 2025. The
elevated is like, okay, I don't feel like eating my vegetables. I'm going to show
you what I'm doing. And I feel like that, like, reality TV
show, like, let's go with me behind the scenes and let's do all this. I
(31:10):
feel like that's really what's working right now with content. Is there anything else that
you're seeing that really stands out to you with, like, like, oh, this is the
typ content that's really performing well right now. Yeah, I mean, I
think it's exactly what you're saying because
we can find any information we want and we can go to ChatGPT
and it will get a summary of all the information out there. But
(31:32):
what we really want are we want experts
that will curate it for us. So we want,
like, we want someone else that lives a life that we want to live to
tell us what works for them. You know, like, that is.
That's. That's what this is all about, right? Is that we've suddenly we. We
have AI. We can all find out whatever we want
(31:54):
and that type of information will be less Valuable than
what you're saying, right? Which is like, listen, I got two kids,
you know, like your life. And explaining like, this is. I, you know, I'm
recording podcasts, this is what I do before my podcast to make sure I'm ready
or whatever. Because then we're like, oh, that's how she
does it. And my life looks like hers, or I want my life to look
(32:16):
like hers. And so as AI becomes,
I mean, it's already huge, right? But we're going to see it
integrated so much more. And really it's going to come down to that personal
connection and building, like, being that
curator for people. Like, listen, yeah, you can, you can go get the 10
steps from ChatGPT, but let me tell you, the, like, how
(32:39):
I do it as this type of person. So that's where I see
things going, is like, the facts are going to be
good and you're going to have to know them. We're going to have to know
more because it's the application that's really going to be the valuable part.
Yeah, I feel like this is just the age of AI too.
Is that, like, the knowledge piece is not going to be enough. It's how
(33:00):
we apply it that's really going to make the difference. It can be scary.
It can be scary. But I do think there are ways that AI can help
us in this next stage. To me, it reminds me of
when I was in the second grade or third grade grade. I
distinctly remember one of my teachers making me do math and I
was like, but I have this calculator. Can I use the calculator? And she was
(33:21):
like, no, you have to know how to do it because you're not going to
be carrying a calculator in your pocket all the time. And now look, look at
me now, Ms. Anderson. I have a calculator in my
pocket all the time. And so that's how AI feels to me right now, where
it's like, some people are like, oh, you have to do the manual work of
it all. And I'm like, yeah, I know how to do the manual work, don't
get me wrong. But, like, if there's a calculator, I'm gonna use the calculator.
(33:43):
So I say all that. I'm curious how you are using AI, AKA
the calculator in your, like, marketing day to
day. Yeah. So, well, sometimes I have little
chats with ChatGPT, and I'm like, hey, this is a decision I'm,
I'm making and I list all the details and then it comes back to me
and it's like, michelle, I think you already know the answer, but this is what
(34:05):
I recommend. It's funny. Anyway, that did happen, like, where, like, I need
to talk through something because I'm a verbal processor. And so,
like, so I have it on my phone. I just speak into
it, and I'm like, hey, here are the details of my business. I also am
restructuring some of my products. And so I was like, hey, let me tell you
what my products are. These are the price points. This is my revenue
(34:26):
goal. Can you make a map for me this year of when I should
launch and how many I need to sell of each to get there?
And it can. Like, those are things that I'm going to go. I would have
have figured out, right? But it would have taken me 20 minutes
and I'd had to have stopped and pulled out my phone calculator. But this,
I'm like, I'm on the go. Like, I'm in the car. I was running errand,
(34:47):
like, taking my kids to practice, you know, doing stuff. And
I was like, oh, I got to figure out, like, my numbers. And so I
was just talking to it. So that's something that is. I was like, that's just
a practical thing. I've had
quite a few, like, speeches that I have had to give the last. Last month
or so. And I would write. I would write it
(35:09):
and write, like, sections, and I would say, okay, chat gpd.
I need. I need you to make this more. Because I'm.
Because my background is pr. I'm a very, like, newspaper writer, where I'm like,
these are the facts. And so I was like, could you
add a little bit for storytelling and make this a little stronger? And it just
shifted it a little bit, but it made it stronger. I've been doing the same
(35:31):
thing with. So I'm the first draft and been doing that with
substance and just saying, like, hey, this is
a story. This is. You know, and because I'm a verbal processor and I have
my own podcast, like, speaking, it is easier than writing it for me, so it
can write down whatever I say, add some things. So. And I'm using
it for that kind of thing, for editing my
(35:54):
content, that kind of stuff, as well as analyzing
data and. Yeah, just making and
streamlining the process, which. Which feels scary, I think, right now
because it feels like it's taking away the creativity, you know, because
it's like, well, we're not creating all of it. And I'm like, no, I'm not
creating the Dumb parts, The parts that I don't want to do,
(36:15):
I do not want to do that part right. And it's actually opening up
me up to be more creative because, like, those little
things that are not necessarily. Maybe not my strong suit or
like, stuff that, like, speaking is easier. Speaking it
into existence is easier than typing it into existence for me.
And so I'm using my skills. Like, I'm just better at speaking it
(36:38):
out than. And it's turning it into something that can be written or,
you know, could be published and I can edit it. And so what I decided
to do is I'm like, listen, we're all scared of AI
and we feel overwhelmed by it. And so I was. I'm like, I'm going to
just start using it. I'm just going to use it. And if I
think about it, I'm going to pick it up, download it on your phone, and
(36:59):
I'm going to use it. And just doing that has opened me up to
more and more ways that I can use it to streamline my business and to
take away some of the unnecessary parts to
creating. Yeah, I think that's the key. Streamlining it. Yeah,
it's faster. But again, it's like our calculator.
Sure, you can be all precious about doing long
(37:22):
division manually. Good for you. I'm glad you could do that. But
real life, everyday stuff, as long as we get
to the same answer, we, you know, we're still using our
human brains, I think. I think it's great. Okay, so as we wrap up this
conversation, one of the things I want to ask you about
is really this mindset piece when it comes to creating
(37:44):
content, and especially now, like, this episode comes out,
we're heading into summer. Those of us with the kids, we're like, all right, summer
mode. So over the next 30 days, what's something
that we can think about? A mental shift that we can make to really strengthen
our approach to creating content on Instagram and really everywhere in our
market. Yeah, I would definitely
(38:06):
put it on the calendar. So as
creatives, I don't really believe in being like, this is how
you create content. So some people really like to batch and other people,
like, that makes them want to die. Like, batching a whole ton of content.
And there's obviously some power and some benefits to batching, but if you dread
it all the time, then I don't love that. So one of the things is
(38:29):
like, like, you either say, on Mondays, I. I do all my video
and I'm just going to like, I'M going to get my makeup on, I'm going
to get ready, and we're going to do all the video and do a bunch
all at once and just video it and batch it in. In the different
stages of the content creation process. I also know
someone, some people who like to, like, just schedule on their calendar
that every day I have 30 minutes, that I'm going to create something
(38:53):
so that it's more a part of their, like, everyday routine. But it
doesn't happen unless you put it on a schedule and on a
calendar and it, like in a meeting that you would show up for. Because
what usually happens is you want to
create on Instagram, but then you don't, right? And then you get to the
end of the week and you're like, oh, man, I should have posted. And then
(39:15):
you scroll and then you scroll on Instagram for like an hour looking for ideas,
and then you find something and then you're like, I'm just going to post this.
And so you just post it. And then you're like, that didn't do well. And
they're like, instagram's the worst. The algorithm hates me. Right? And you actually
haven't taken time to create intentional
strategic content or, or calculate a
(39:36):
time and put in your calendar time when you're going to analyze what is working
and what isn't. So as far as that goes, you
need to start treating Instagram like it's part of your business
and not just a last thing like, that you put on,
you know, the end of your list that you're like, well, I know this is
important, but I really hate it because the algorithm hates me because I'm not getting
(39:57):
what I want. And it's like, well, if you showed up on Instagram or showed
up for Instagram, like, you're showing up for, like, creating your product or creating your
courses or teaching your whatever, you know, whatever type of entrepreneur you are,
then your Instagram content would change, and so would how
Instagram can help and serve your business 100%.
It's your responsibility as a business owner to treat marketing seriously in your business.
(40:20):
I totally agree. And I love that you said, you know, you can kind of
play with it, whether you like batching or you like doing things day by day.
I mean, there are different seasons in my life where I do both. Like, sometimes
I'm like, batch queen. Like right now, batching all the way, like,
makeup every day is not for me right now. But there are some days
where, where periods in my life where, you know, I like to create
(40:42):
content every day. That's actually my preferred method of doing it, is creating content
every day. But like, with a one year old at home, where I'm literally recording
podcast episodes while she's napping, it's not gonna happen every day. So for me,
I gotta, I gotta plan ahead. I gotta plan ahead. So, you know, you get
to decide this. You gotta treat your marketing seriously. I love that you that you
emphasize that. Okay, so for everyone listening
(41:04):
who's like, I love this. I'm limited on time. I know you've got,
Michelle, this like weekly trend thingy.
Plus plus, I love how you not only give the trends, but
then you tell us exactly how to apply them. Tell me more about it.
Yes, absolutely. So I have a membership
that you can join and I'll give you a week for free to test it
(41:25):
out where we are sending, like the trends that are happening that week.
We send that out and then with examples and a description of how
you can apply it to your business. Because I mean,
looking for the right trend is actually the worst waste of time.
That, like, it's so hard, right? You go on there and you're like, okay, I
like this, but how many times has it been used and like, how can I
(41:47):
apply it to your business? So we're streamlining that for you
so that you can, like, just start creating content in a lot, like a lot
faster. Um, so that's called the Insta Content Club. We'd love to
have you. And if you use mindful marketing, you can get a week for
free. I love that. Okay, we're going to put that link and the code in
the description onlinedrea.com 363.
(42:09):
Michelle, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so
much. It was so fun. Yes. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning into another
episode of the Mindville marketing podcast. If you love this conversation and
you want to learn more about how to apply marketing in your business,
come to our Social Media Day summit. Okay. We're doing a free Social Media
Day summit, a live panel on June 30th.
(42:32):
That's a Monday. Okay. Come join me and some special guests where
we talk about the state of social media, especially y' all. Keep talking about the
algorithm. We're gonna talk about the algorithm, we're gonna talk about AI. We're gonna talk
about it all. You can get your questions answered, but you gotta show up live
for that. Go to online draft.com smd
that social media day smd and that link will be in the show. Notes as
(42:53):
well. I have another episode coming for you next Tuesday. Stay
tuned for that. I'll see you then. Bye for now.
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