May 27, 2025 • 35 mins
“Hire a team, scale fast, never stop growing.”
That’s the advice we’ve all heard. But what if that isn’t your dream? What if building a business that actually supports your life means not hiring a big team?
This week, Maggie Patterson joins me to talk about her new book, Staying Solo, and why more business owners are choosing to stay lean, profitable, and in control—without sacrificing growth. We get real about the myths of solo business, the financial numbers people avoid, and the very real pressure to “look legit” online.
If you’ve ever felt weird about staying small, this one’s for you.
In this episode of the podcast, we talk about:
- Why staying solo is a valid long-term business model
- The real cost of growing too fast
- What most business owners aren’t tracking
- How Maggie marketed her book with a private podcast
- Why solo businesses are often more human
…And More!
This Episode Was Made Possible By:
Riverside All-in-One Podcast & Video Platform
Visit Riverside and use the code DREA to get 15% off any Riverside individual plan. We use it to record all our podcast interviews: https://onlinedrea.com/riverside
About the Guest:
Maggie Patterson is the creator of BS-Free Business® and the author of Staying Solo®. With 20 years of experience as a successful entrepreneur in client services, Maggie helps service business owners build what she proudly calls a “boring business”—strategically small, sustainable, and designed to fit their lives without the constant hustle.
A podcaster and writer, Maggie is a vocal advocate for humane business practices rooted in respect, empathy, and trust. She hosts two podcasts, Staying Solo and Confessions of a Micro Agency Owner, and co-hosts the consumer advocacy podcast Duped: The Dark Side of Online Business.
Website: www.bsfreebusiness.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bsfreebusiness/
Threads: https://www.threads.com/@bsfreebusiness
Go to the show notes for all the resources mentioned in this episode: https://onlinedrea.com/359
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you've been on the Internet for any number of years, you've heard the
age old advice, hire a team, build a team, hire more
people, and then hire some more. And if you are like, I don't know if
that advice works for me, this episode is for you. I have the amazing
Maggie Patterson coming on the show today to talk about her new book, Staying
Solo, as well as, well, how you can do that yourself. But first,
(00:21):
a word from our sponsor. Riverside is the all in
one podcast recording and editing tool that I use for this Right
Here show. I use it to edit not only the audio in the video,
it is like chef's kiss, magical, making the entire process
so, so easy. Plus I love their
magic AI clips. Their little AI robot in
(00:44):
the background pulls out the most impactful moments of the
episodes without me having to comb through and do it myself, resizes them
for social media. So those vertical videos you see on Tik TikTok and
reels, those all come from magic AI inside of Riverside.
It's literally one click. It spits out 10 clips. I pick the
best one and away I go saves me so much time. If you wanna get
(01:06):
on the Riverside train, check it out today, the links in the show notes, and
make sure to use my code DREA, d r e a, at checkout to
get 15% off your membership.
Welcome to episode number 359 of the Mindful Marketing
podcast. I'm I'm so excited to have you all here today. And Maggie, thank you
so much for being on the show again. Yeah. Well, thank you for keep inviting
(01:27):
me back. I appreciate it. Honestly, this is 100% selfish, because
I just love your brain. And I just want to pick your brain just publicly
for everyone else to hear as well. So I'm excited about that. Either way.
But one of the things that I really admire about you is you have
really strong stance and a really strong opinion about some of the things that
are really the antithesis of what the big bro y online
(01:49):
business y people say. And for years, you know, there's this
common advice of, like, to scale, you have to build a
team. So let's start with this big question. What's the
deal with staying solo? Well, the deal is
I noticed this pattern. I work with service providers, some of
which are micro agency owners, and then some of which are true, you
(02:11):
know, done for you solo service providers. And
early on when I started working with this group, I just assumed, like, I had
scaled into a micro agency that everyone wanted to do that. But I kept
having my clients come to me and say, but, Becky, I don't want
a team. I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna do that. And I'm like,
oh, this is a thing. And they felt really awkward about it.
(02:35):
They felt bad. And a lot of the messages they
were getting kind of in that bigger business ecosystem was
like, they were playing small, they were capping their growth, they're
limiting their potential. You know, all the mindset things
and, like, you're not going for it. And I
have spent a lot of time with my clients over the years reassuring
(02:57):
them, talking about, like, hey. You don't have to accept
that your income's gonna be capped just because you don't have a team. Like,
how can we find a way to make this model work for you
and optimize it? Because leadership is not for everyone.
The risk and reward of having a team is not for everyone. And I think
we've, you know, we've seen that over the last three, four years as we've
(03:19):
watched a lot of people kind of walk back their teams. And not that
that's a bad thing. We've seen also seen a lot of big businesses kind of
what they call descale. They were not selling what they
used to sell, which is fine. But the conversation
has changed a lot in the last few years, and I want it to be
like, hey. You know what? There still is a valid option here. You don't have
(03:40):
to grow continuously. You don't have to keep chasing. You can build
a a business that actually supports the kind of
life you want and not in this, like, I'm gonna be sipping pina coladas on
the beach kind of way. Like, you know, that's it's always like, I
get it. It's like not freedom because I have a private jet. It's freedom
because I can take my loved one to an appointment.
(04:02):
Yeah. Like, really practical day to day things where you have the flexibility
and, like, the freedom that's not about this, you know,
artifice, this big fake image around you.
Yeah. A %. And I think this is the thing. Right? It's it's the
option to be able to decide to do this. And I feel like,
especially when people are trying to sell you something, they say, this is the
(04:24):
one true path that there is no other options. And so you kind of feel
like that, because you, like, buy into the
hype. Right? And so I love that we're talking about this alternative
method of doing things because there is another option. And I know for me
personally too, like, I loved having a team. It really support me in
that season of my life. I loved having my agency, and then I did
(04:46):
it. And then I sold it. And then and now it's just me and my
assistant, Jemmy. And this is my season of life now, and I
love this too. And I feel like they're like, you can do both. You can
have both. You can you can, create a business that kinda fits
with your life, and I love that that's kind of where you where you
are. Can I ask, though, about your business specifically? Because you have
(05:08):
a team too. So how how do you balance, like okay. So talk to me
about, like, your team, and then how do you work with your team, but also,
you know, preach the good word of staying solo? Well, I it's a really good
question. And I mean, I it is something like one of my friends were
initially pushing me to write the book because I'd been talking about staying solo on
my podcast, and then eventually rebranded my podcast. And
(05:30):
I was like, no. I can't do this. Like, I'm not solo. And they were
like, Maggie, the majority of your clients are solo.
And you have years of experience having been solo. Like,
yes, I've had it in an a micro agency for the last nine years, but
the eleven years before that, I was on my own. And
I'm also going through the process of, like, I run two businesses. So eventually,
(05:52):
like, will my agency retire? Yes. And
will I be truly solo? No. Because I don't wanna fire my
sister, but who works for me full time. But, you know, we
still run like a really scrappy little solo business in a
lot of ways. So, try not to add a lot of layers of complications.
So I always say I have the scrappy heart of a solo person in my
(06:13):
you know, that's the kind of way I run things. I've never been like, let's
have a big team. I don't like layers of complexity.
I just I started on that path when I started growing my agency,
and I was so much happier, like, by reducing the team and having
things be really, really slim. So for me,
while I am not solo, I am in my heart.
(06:35):
Yeah. And I feel like that's the like, that's the energy that you bring
into the work that you do is this, like, scrappiness to it. Right?
And I do feel like as especially as small business owners, we kinda have to
have that energy. Like, we don't have the, like, endless amounts of
funding that some of these, like, larger Yeah. You know, companies have. And
so, like, to be able to sustain our businesses, we do
(06:57):
have to, like, think strategically and be really smart about how we use all of
our funds, including, you know, paying our team and how that how that works
out. So they I love that you have that. So, so you wrote the book
basically wrote the book on staying solo. So what are what are some of the
things, the common myths that you break down in the book about, like,
staying solo? Yeah. So I think one of the biggest
(07:19):
things is a lot of people have this hang up. They're not a real business
if they're this team of one or they're just, like, you and your assistant.
Right? People get really stuck on this. And the reality
is is that the majority of businesses in The US and in the
Western world, all the statistics point to are one
person businesses. Yeah. You know? Like,
(07:41):
we need to stop having the conversation around
entrepreneurship. We really focused on scale,
on rapid growth, on startups, on, like the
culture of entrepreneurship is very much this cultural celebration
of being big when the reality of entrepreneurship
is solo. So there's this real digger. And the second
(08:04):
I point that out to people they go. And then the second thing
is, is that, especially for people have been operating in the
kind of freelance online business world, they have a really
inflated idea of what success looks like.
In The US, the number I share in the book is the average
one person business is making $43,000 a year.
(08:28):
But meanwhile, in online business world, hundred k is like a
joke. You're only making 6 figures. Right? Like
and then it was seven figures and eight figures and all the figures. And the
reality is is most people are creating these roles
for themselves to have the freedom and flexibility and all the things that were
promised. But, ultimately, the goal isn't to make more
(08:49):
money. The goal is to get the time freedom and everything else.
And there's a lot of data I bring into, the front part of the book
to set up all my argument. And there's an entire, study
of by state in The US of, hey. You know what? Why do people start
their businesses? Money was very low on the list.
And I think we get we start off with one thing and then it morphs
(09:12):
over time and we start to feel bad about ourselves. We start to really
see, like, oh, I'm not earning enough. I'm not good enough. I should be
hiring. I'm not legitimate. I'm a joke. And the
reality is, is out in the non entrepreneurial online
business world, this is the way business is. So why don't we just,
like, drop all this crap, cut the bullshit out, and, like,
(09:34):
actually focus on what our
businesses need for us to find them to be simple and sustainable
and to not take over our lives. Yeah. Wow. So is that number,
the the 43 ks, is that, that's the profit or is
that? That top line revenue. Top line. So I'm
like, not even expenses. Wow. Okay. So, yeah, I feel like that is a
(09:56):
huge reality check. And it's so funny too. You you talked about how,
you know, when we first start our businesses, money isn't that
high up on the list. And that is true for me too. You got me
thinking about, like, I started my business because I just like it. Like, I like
my thing, and I like doing it. And then somewhere along the way, it's like
more and more and more. And, like, even now, a lot of the changes
(10:18):
that I've made in my business is because I'm, like, shifting more into the things
that I just I just like more. Yes. Even though now
I make less than I have ever had in my business, actually.
But I feel more fulfilled because I have more time to spend
with my kids, which like right now is the most important thing to me. Right?
And so it's so interesting how that money number sometimes
(10:40):
overshadows our goals. And I do think it is
the marketing hype, right, of all of this. So
so as as, as we go into this idea of, like, staying solo,
what are some of the things we need to keep in mind so that we
can have a sustainable business and maintain all those flexibility things that we
want? Yeah. So the the very first thing is I talk about
(11:02):
these six different pillars, and basically every pillar is a chapter or couple
chapters in the book. And the very first one I talk about is
salary. Because while it is not about the money,
we all you know, all things being equal, we all have
businesses because we do need to make some money to, you know, feed,
clothe, you know, survive, live in this, you know, capitalist hellscape we're
(11:24):
in. So one of the biggest things I see is people
overinvesting in their business as solo business owners. We've all been there.
We've all done it, buying all the things, chasing after the the
dream TM, if you will. And
we need to get very realistic about, like, how much money
do I need from the business, and what activities do I need to be
(11:47):
doing to ensure that I'm able to pay myself first. Because if you're not
payable to pay yourself consistently from your business, what's gonna happen?
You're gonna become burnt out. You're gonna become resentful. You're not
gonna feel fulfilled by it. You need your, at a
minimum, your basic needs to be being met. And I want people to be doing
better than their basic needs. Stop paying scammy business coaches
(12:09):
on the Internet, all your money, and then getting the
leftovers. I want you to reverse engineer that. And I have a
calculator that goes with the book to be like, hey. This is how much money
I need in my life. How much money do I actually need to be
making? What are my expenses? And start to keep an eye on those
numbers really strategically. And I brought in some really smart
(12:30):
people into that chapter to talk about, like, how do you pay yourself? What
should you be doing? Like, getting into the mechanics of the money that
I'm not an expert on, but these smart money people, CPAs,
bookkeepers actually are. Yeah. I love that you you
emphasize the money piece because I can't tell you how many times
I've been on, like, consult calls with someone where they come in and they wanna
(12:53):
hire my agency for services. And I'm asking them these questions
like, okay, you know, how much revenue are you making per month
or, how how much does it cost? Like, what's the cost of goods sold or
things like that. And they don't know the answers. And it's like, we can't market.
We can't even do anything until you know those answers. Otherwise, you're just paying
me to post on social media for you. And, like, that's that's I mean, for
(13:14):
fun, sure. If you wanna do that, more power to you. But, like, we wanna
run the business here. And so I love that you start with the with the
numbers of it all because it it's the reality that we all have to face.
And I think it's one of those things too where if you get caught up
in the hype, you end up spending so much time on the busy work.
I'm gonna call out marketing here. Okay. This is a marketing podcast. We
(13:36):
spend so much time on busy work. Sometimes it's
marketing. And then we feel like nothing's working because we actually haven't looked at the
numbers to see where that all lies. So, do you talk about marketing
and how how do we how do we put marketing as the line item in
all of this? You know, I really touch on marketing in the
systems part of it because it is
(13:58):
nobody wants especially as a solo business owner, no one wants
to, like, systems. Do I really need system? And it's like, stop thinking of
systems as, like, these things that, like, are going to constrain us and the
things that actually let us get what we need to get done, get it done
in a really focused way, and making really strategic decisions to
say, you know what? My last five clients have come from
(14:19):
referrals. I've never ever got a lead on social
media. So do I need to be doing social media? Or why
am I this is what I see all the time. Building an email list, which
is for people that are not buying retainer services.
Like, get really clear on what that marketing is and then create a
really simple system where you know what is the cadence.
(14:41):
You're not having to reinvent the wheel. So if you are doing specific
marketing activities, you have a plan. And I just call it, like, the minimally
viable marketing plan. Like, please just start with that. Yes.
Please. Please. Please. I love that you use a referral example because
there are so many times where people say that to me. Oh, it's referrals referrals.
And they desperately want they want the magic pill of social media, but they're
(15:03):
marketing to the wrong people. Like, if referrals are your people, go after referrals. And,
yeah, you can find them on social media, but you if you gotta go into
it with that mindset. I love this. I love this. Okay. So we're
staying solo. We are, you know, being strategic with
our time, But at what point do we start outsourcing?
So do you talk in the book about getting support
(15:24):
even while staying solo? What does that look like? Yeah. So one
of the pillars is support, and I feel like this is a really
common place where people go wrong. They feel like
solo means alone. Yeah. Like, nobody is a
business owner. Nobody should be doing this alone. And
support can take a lot of different forms. And this is your like, how do
(15:46):
you have a whole chapter on support? Well, I talk about entrepreneurial
loneliness because it's a well documented and very studied
thing at this point, and the isolation that goes on, the
fact that we all have different needs, we need different supports.
And we often think of support as I need to hire
a business coach or I need to hire a VA. Support
(16:08):
can come in a lot of different forms. It can come in in terms of
upscaling or, it can come in personal
support. I talk about personal support all the time with my clients.
And that a lot of times is the most impactful type of support. Hey.
Your back hurts because you're spending a lot of time in your design?
Maybe you need a massage. Oh, you're struggling with x, y, and
(16:30):
z? Maybe you need therapy. Maybe you need
your groceries delivered or a produce box. Like, the support
we get does not have to come down to pure support in the business.
It could be having a having a very specific tool. So looking
at support from a, I can't do this by myself, you know,
no business owner is an island type thing, and being like, where do
(16:53):
I actually need support? And sometimes that's gonna be like, hey, I need some business
friends because I haven't left my house, and I need to talk to
people who get it because talking to my partner or
my cats is not a healthy way to do this.
Yeah. Get the support. I like, my Walmart delivery
guy, oh, man. That's my support right there. Can't do it.
(17:15):
Can't do without him. Okay. So let's talk
about this idea of okay. Yeah. We're solo. We have our
support. But there's this concept that I I run into all the time where
people wanna and if this is you, don't feel bad, but they wanna seem
like they're bigger than they are. Right? Like, they like, they on the website, they're
like, oh, we here's how we help everybody. Or, like,
(17:38):
somebody asked me the other day if my assistant was AI. They were like, oh,
is Jemmy a real person? I'm like, what do you mean? Yes. She's real she's
a real person. People are creating yeah. Like, creating
AI assistance to, like, make themselves seem like they're bigger
than they are. Why? Why do why do people do this? Do you know?
I feel like this ties back to kind of the beginning of, like, the the
(18:02):
business legitimacy thing. And you were
in that series I did, the staying solo story series.
One of the interviews I did with one of my longtime
clients, she tells a story. This is Emily Gertenbach, and she tells a
story about going to a networking event. And someone keeps badgering her
about when she's gonna hire and how bad it made her feel.
(18:24):
And there is this idea, like, if
you don't have a team, employees, a
brick and mortar, all these things, are you even legit? Are you
even real? You're just playing business in your office or at your
kitchen table or whatever. And the reality is is that
(18:45):
that it's about ego. It's about vanity. It's about so many
things. And I I find it really interesting
when, like, I will pop my team answers emails
in our, you know, shared inbox, but so do I. I will pop in
and answer emails sometimes on the customer service side or different things. And people
are, like, so surprised that it's actually me.
(19:08):
Because we have all been conditioned in this online world to
feel, like, these celebrity entrepreneurs running the businesses
are untouchables, and we should be worshiping them. And the reality
is is, like, people at this point in time,
I'm gonna I'm gonna call it right now. They don't give a shit if you
have a huge team. They care if you have skills and experience and you
(19:29):
do what you say you're gonna do. Because, unfortunately, over the last ten
years of the online business world, like, the bar is so low, it's in hell
right now. Oh, lord. Am I
wrong? You're not wrong. I do
feel like, unfortunately, this is where we are in the service industry.
And especially going into now. So now not only are
(19:52):
we competing against the low expectations that other people have set in
their business, but also AI. I feel like there's
this assumption that it's such a magical thing that it's
like people people think it's the end all be all. And then
they come to us and they expect us to be able to do things, or
they expect the eye to be able to do things that it can't. And it's
(20:13):
like, okay. So we're battling against two expectations here with
this, which is just it's so freaking wild. I think we're just heading into a
wild time. But like you said, when you go into your inbox and you answer
an email, I think that actually helps people connect with you
more. And it it kind of like bridges this
gap right now between, like, there's so much information online that
(20:36):
sometimes we just want a human being. It reminds me of, like, when you
call the bank and you're like, give me the human. I don't want the automate
I don't want the automated. Give me the human. I feel like that's where we
are right now. I think example this morning, my husband's off
work. We need to get a railing installed on our front step
because there's not one and it's dangerous. And it's been six years and we figure
(20:57):
someone's gonna fall off eventually. So he he call basically
gets in touch with two places. One person says, great. I'm in the area. I'm
gonna come give you a quote. The other one says, hey. Can you take
pictures and send a sketch? Wait. They want you to sketch
it? Yes. No. Yeah. That's why he's
like, absolutely not. And I mean, the man is an artist. He can do
(21:19):
it, but I'm he he was just like, no. So we think of that
example in your business. Like, part of being a
service business owner is actually providing service. And I feel like in the
push to have boundaries and say no and, like, I support all those things. There's
an entire chapter on boundaries in the book. But we need to remember,
like, we actually need to be providing a service and doing what we
(21:40):
say we're gonna do and not overpromising and not just trying to do the least
amount of work for the most amount of money. Like, there needs to
be some integrity in this. And, our mutual
friend, Michelle Mazer, and I just recorded a episode of
our podcast duped on AI and shitification.
Because what I'm seeing is the coach to AI, you know,
(22:03):
consultant pipeline is real. As the coaching industry is saying, we've got
an AI industry replacing it. And I I use AI. I don't think it's
bad. But when I see someone being like, pay
for six weeks of coaching with my bot, Are you
what are you on? Look. Yes.
Oh, I saw it for real on the Internet. Oh,
(22:25):
man. I mean, I guess if we can think it, it's it's being done.
Listen, I'm a huge fan of AI. I love using it. I talk to Chatty,
ChattyPT every day. Sure. I love it. And it's like a
calculator, man. It's not it's not replacing the human
anyways. Okay. Let me shift gears a little bit
because I wanna get a little bit nosy about your book marketing. I
(22:47):
loved the podcast series that you did for your
book marketing. But before we get into that, I want you to give us
the the overall 10 foot view, hundred foot view of your book
marketing headed into the launch of Staying Solo. Oh my
gosh. I'm just gonna say to anyone who wants to write a book, it is
a lot of work as an indie author because it is me.
(23:10):
And, like, yes, I have a team, but here's the reality. I have a
very small team, and we've got an agency to run.
We've got BS free business to run, and, like, I didn't know what I was
doing, so I couldn't give really good instructions. So, I mean, I have lots of
friends who've had books, everything who've given me lots of guidance, but I had to
get really scrappy. Like, that was a lot of I had to do a lot
(23:32):
of swipe files. I created a whole secondary podcast for
it. You know, multiple episodes of my podcast. I've
been doing all the podcast interviews. Like, this
is 10,000 foot. This is a massive marketing
project over and above everything else we are already doing.
And I think the interesting thing is, like, yes, there's the
(23:53):
time and the energy and commitment of writing the book. And then there's the
hard expenses of writing the book, which right now I'm looking at
about $12,000 of, like, you know, what's gone
into book marketing, copies, sponsorships, all the
things. I mean, that's I'm sure that cost will mount over time, which
with my business model, we were I'm already starting to see
(24:16):
that kind of be recouped. But if you have a business model where you're selling,
like, $2 stickers, writing a book is not gonna be the way to go.
Yeah. I mean, my year long masterminds, I sell a couple of those
those expenses are recouped. And I didn't do it for
necessary this, like, massive influx of business. I did it because
I wanted to basically put everything
(24:38):
together in one neat package, and it's a really good
entry point for people into my world. Yeah. I love this. To
me, it's like, it's like the best business card you can
ever Exactly. Give out, right? Because if someone doesn't know who
you are, I could buy the book and be like, Oh, here's everything you need
to know. And then once you're done with that, come to me and I'll I'll
(24:59):
give you the next step because Maggie has a lot of options, you know, and
so I really like that you did that. I'm always impressed with people who could
do this because, I do not have the patience. How long did it
take you to write the book? A year. And I'm
a write just for like, I am a writer. That is
my that is my craft. That is my thing. I had
(25:20):
a lot of existing material to pull together, but, oh,
the I really went over the top with making the case and
the research. Like, anyone who reads the book will be like, this is
a very well researched and cited book. And if you don't like research, just skip
the first three chapters and get into the guts. I literally have it like a
how to use this book because that section is not for everyone. But if anyone
(25:42):
wants to argue with me, I'd be like, see page 47.
Let let me just pull up my notes here and show you how it's
done. I love this. Oh my gosh. This book is on my read list.
Once I get, like, some time away from these little kids, I'm gonna dive into
it. I already have a plan. I love this. So back to the
private podcast. I love private podcast because for me, especially
(26:06):
in this season of my life, I need something audio that I can listen while
we're out walking, doing j care drop off, all of this. How did
that go and and embedded into the launch of the book?
You know, that I really I really partway through was like,
what have I done? Oh, no. I was like I was like, oh,
wow. I just created a whole other project on top of the
(26:28):
book, on top of everything else. Yeah. But I'm really glad we did it
because number one, the Staying Solo podcast, I
very, like, very, very, very rarely do interviews on
that podcast. And there's so many people I wanted to talk to that
were either featured in the book or kind of in my bigger world. And
I was I really enjoyed having those conversations, and I've got
(26:50):
so much positive feedback on it. And I'd have to look at the numbers,
but, I mean, right out of the gate, there was, like, a hundred downloads right
there. Boom. Like and when I say a hundred I should say a hundred sign
ups, It's not a hundred downloads. So, you know, that's
getting it in front of those people. And it's the nice thing
about it is the conversations are completely evergreen. So, you know,
(27:12):
over the summer, hey. I'm gonna be like, hey. You missed the Staying Solo
podcast we're on hiatus? Go listen to the private podcast.
Because if there's one thing I am going to do with all this is repurpose
it for all of eternity. For here and now and
forever. Amen. I love this. So I wanna talk a little bit about your goals
from this because I do find that one of the hardest parts in marketing in
(27:34):
general is once you set out to do the thing, it's after
you've done it measuring the success of especially such a large
campaign like this took you a year to write it, so much,
investment to go into publishing self publishing. You're
still on this marketing tour of it all. What are your goals?
Let's let's give it an end date by the end of twenty twenty five. What
(27:57):
are what would make this a huge success for you? What would make this a
huge success for me is, a, I want books in
hands and eyeballs reading the books. Right? Like, they're you know, it's
multi step. Get the book in front of people, get them to
read the book, and then hopefully get them into my world. And we are
already seeing, you know, beyond those initial email sign ups around,
(28:19):
the podcast. We've had some really meaningful list growth. I'd have to
actually go look at the numbers, but meaningful for us. We don't have a giant
list, in terms of just people signing up for the resource kit that goes with
the book. I've had been able to have a lot of podcast conversations.
So, you know, we're we're broadening the net because one of
the things that I think would actually really
(28:42):
interest people is my addressable community is not
huge. Like, as much as I seem to be everywhere, you know,
my list is not massive. I don't have massive social media
following. I'm just really loud. I'm actually not that loud, but I'm
loud around my marketing. Right? So Yeah. And if
you actually look at the numbers, like, that is how I'm consistently
(29:04):
able to outperform what my numbers say I should
be able to do in terms of conversions and just engagement with my
community. So, for me, this is just a awareness and a
visibility exercise at this point. And, like, would I like to sell a thousand books
by the end of the year? Yes. Do I think I'm going to? I don't
know. Book reporting is really slow. I don't know where I'm at right now.
(29:27):
Yeah. I love that. Okay. I wanna go rewind a sec because you mentioned this
resource kit. Is this something that's like at the end of the book, they get
to the end of the book, and you're like, hey, if you want more sign
up? I have it sprinkled throughout the book. Oh, nice. I
love that. I think that's such a great way to encourage people
to take that next step. Especially you mentioned things like
(29:48):
calculators and like tangible things that you can implement with the
book. Some of the books that stick with me, I always know that those are
the things that go along with it. I love it. I love it. Okay.
So we're nearing the end of our conversation today.
Last question. Do you think that
solo businesses mean that the business is more
(30:10):
human? I'm gonna say yes.
Tell me more. Well, I think and I'm gonna come at this from a couple
different angles, is number one, you know, like, if you
compare it to an agency, one of
the big things everyone goes through when they transition from solo
to an agency is convincing people that their team is as
(30:32):
good as they are, if not better. And when you're
a solopreneur, you never have to deal with that. So I feel
like one of the biggest fears our clients have is, like, what makes
you great is not gonna carry through. And whether
it's true in an agency or not, I do feel like you
being the face of the business also humanizes it. It it's just an
(30:54):
easier thing for brains to wrap around. Not saying agencies
are not human. My team is very human, not AI. But
at the end of the day, there's that. I think the other thing is a
solo business owner. It's a lot easier to just build
things, do your marketing based on your point of view,
your reputation. Like, you don't have as many
(31:16):
things to consider. And I'll give you an example. When I had a business partner,
it was very challenging at times because not that we had differing
viewpoints, but how I would express that versus how she would
express it were very different. And I I'm
glad I had that lesson because once we had wrapped up
in pardon on very amicable terms, I always like to say that because
(31:39):
business partnership breakups are always a thing on the Internet.
And that actually was one of the reasons I was able to sharpen my voice
because I was like, oh, no one's here to hold me back? Great. I can
say whatever I want. Yes. Yeah. You I
do find that so having been on both sides of this
now, I feel more nimble, which is both a pro and a con
(32:01):
like, I don't think either side of this is, like, go all one way or
the other. But, like, I can be very nimble with my marketing.
Like, I can wake up today and be like, I'm gonna do this now and
then just do it. Whereas before when I had a team, there was, like, a
lot of things to think about before doing that. But, also, it's just
me. So some days, lately, especially, where I've been sick this week
(32:22):
y'all, I woke up. I was like, I don't feel like working today. And then
I just don't work today. There's no one to report to. It's just me. So,
I do find that that part like, having a team for me helped me stay
more motivated versus, being nimble. So two sides, but
I I love that you said that though about the humanity of it all. I
find there's just gonna be a premium on humanity because of AI AI
and robots and everything. So I love this. Thank you so
(32:46):
much, Maggie. And can I just I wanna add something to that? In a
world of AI, in a world of where, you
know, we have all these people that are separate and we can't talk to
them. You being able to show up and be human and real and,
like, actually serve your clients, connect with your clients, have conversations with your
clients, and being willing to do that is a huge differentiator.
(33:08):
So I think for anyone who's feeling uncomfortable about AI right now is, like,
as a solo business owner, you have a huge advantage. And I will just say
as someone who works on the agency side with corporate clients, I am seeing
my corporate clients hire more and more solo practitioners
than ever before because they don't wanna pay for the
layers and complexity and, frankly, the bullshit that goes on
(33:31):
with a lot of the agencies they've dealt with in the past. Yeah. Interesting.
Okay. Well, you heard it here first, folks. Staying
Solo may be a way to go for you. I love this. Okay. So everyone
who's listening is like, give me the book now. Please, Maggie, tell us more
about it and where they can find it. Okay. So the book you can find
at stayingsolobook.com. It is everywhere. It is Amazon,
(33:53):
Indigo, Barnes and Nobles, bookshop dot org. So if you don't wanna shop on the
bad place, you don't have to shop on the bad place. And it's in
oh, Kobo. How did I say that? It's all literally all the places.
I've been indie authoring all over the place being like, hi. Can you stop my
book? Yeah. Like I said, the humiliate
of all this. It's been very, sobering.
(34:16):
Yeah. So that is the best place to find book is wherever books are sold.
And if you wanna check out the Sting Solo Stories podcast, which includes
Andrea's story, it's at stingsolostories.com. And
I live on the Internet at b s free business and the Sting Solo
podcast. Yay. I love it. All of those links will be in the show notes
y'all on onlinedre.com/350nine. Get the book, listen to the
(34:37):
podcast, enjoy all of it. Thank you so much, Maggie, for being on the show
today. Thanks, Andrea. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to
another episode of the Mindful Marketing podcast. If you want
more mindful marketing goodness in your life, make sure you check out the Mindful
Marketing Lab. Coming up next, we're doing our famous
What's the Scoop session where I go into all the nitty gritty of all the
(34:59):
marketing news and trends happening on the Internet, really breaking it down so that
you have what you need to know and not all the hypotheticals out there in
the world. So come on in. That's gonna be on June 3.
So in the Mindful Marketing Lab, join us there. Next week, I am having a
conversation with Lindsey Busfield all about unlocking the
Google algorithm, especially that cute little box at the
(35:21):
top right now that says, hey, here's what AI says. If you wanna learn about
that and more, stay tuned next week. I'll see you then. Bye for now.
If you've been on the Internet for any number of years, you've heard the
age old advice, hire a team, build a team, hire more
people, and then hire some more. And if you are like, I don't know if
that advice works for me, this episode is for you. I have the amazing
Maggie Patterson coming on the show today to talk about her new book, Staying
Solo, as well as, well, how you can do that yourself. But first,
(00:21):
a word from our sponsor. Riverside is the all in
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on the Riverside train, check it out today, the links in the show notes, and
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get 15% off your membership.
Welcome to episode number 359 of the Mindful Marketing
podcast. I'm I'm so excited to have you all here today. And Maggie, thank you
so much for being on the show again. Yeah. Well, thank you for keep inviting
(01:27):
me back. I appreciate it. Honestly, this is 100% selfish, because
I just love your brain. And I just want to pick your brain just publicly
for everyone else to hear as well. So I'm excited about that. Either way.
But one of the things that I really admire about you is you have
really strong stance and a really strong opinion about some of the things that
are really the antithesis of what the big bro y online
(01:49):
business y people say. And for years, you know, there's this
common advice of, like, to scale, you have to build a
team. So let's start with this big question. What's the
deal with staying solo? Well, the deal is
I noticed this pattern. I work with service providers, some of
which are micro agency owners, and then some of which are true, you
(02:11):
know, done for you solo service providers. And
early on when I started working with this group, I just assumed, like, I had
scaled into a micro agency that everyone wanted to do that. But I kept
having my clients come to me and say, but, Becky, I don't want
a team. I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna do that. And I'm like,
oh, this is a thing. And they felt really awkward about it.
(02:35):
They felt bad. And a lot of the messages they
were getting kind of in that bigger business ecosystem was
like, they were playing small, they were capping their growth, they're
limiting their potential. You know, all the mindset things
and, like, you're not going for it. And I
have spent a lot of time with my clients over the years reassuring
(02:57):
them, talking about, like, hey. You don't have to accept
that your income's gonna be capped just because you don't have a team. Like,
how can we find a way to make this model work for you
and optimize it? Because leadership is not for everyone.
The risk and reward of having a team is not for everyone. And I think
we've, you know, we've seen that over the last three, four years as we've
(03:19):
watched a lot of people kind of walk back their teams. And not that
that's a bad thing. We've seen also seen a lot of big businesses kind of
what they call descale. They were not selling what they
used to sell, which is fine. But the conversation
has changed a lot in the last few years, and I want it to be
like, hey. You know what? There still is a valid option here. You don't have
(03:40):
to grow continuously. You don't have to keep chasing. You can build
a a business that actually supports the kind of
life you want and not in this, like, I'm gonna be sipping pina coladas on
the beach kind of way. Like, you know, that's it's always like, I
get it. It's like not freedom because I have a private jet. It's freedom
because I can take my loved one to an appointment.
(04:02):
Yeah. Like, really practical day to day things where you have the flexibility
and, like, the freedom that's not about this, you know,
artifice, this big fake image around you.
Yeah. A %. And I think this is the thing. Right? It's it's the
option to be able to decide to do this. And I feel like,
especially when people are trying to sell you something, they say, this is the
(04:24):
one true path that there is no other options. And so you kind of feel
like that, because you, like, buy into the
hype. Right? And so I love that we're talking about this alternative
method of doing things because there is another option. And I know for me
personally too, like, I loved having a team. It really support me in
that season of my life. I loved having my agency, and then I did
(04:46):
it. And then I sold it. And then and now it's just me and my
assistant, Jemmy. And this is my season of life now, and I
love this too. And I feel like they're like, you can do both. You can
have both. You can you can, create a business that kinda fits
with your life, and I love that that's kind of where you where you
are. Can I ask, though, about your business specifically? Because you have
(05:08):
a team too. So how how do you balance, like okay. So talk to me
about, like, your team, and then how do you work with your team, but also,
you know, preach the good word of staying solo? Well, I it's a really good
question. And I mean, I it is something like one of my friends were
initially pushing me to write the book because I'd been talking about staying solo on
my podcast, and then eventually rebranded my podcast. And
(05:30):
I was like, no. I can't do this. Like, I'm not solo. And they were
like, Maggie, the majority of your clients are solo.
And you have years of experience having been solo. Like,
yes, I've had it in an a micro agency for the last nine years, but
the eleven years before that, I was on my own. And
I'm also going through the process of, like, I run two businesses. So eventually,
(05:52):
like, will my agency retire? Yes. And
will I be truly solo? No. Because I don't wanna fire my
sister, but who works for me full time. But, you know, we
still run like a really scrappy little solo business in a
lot of ways. So, try not to add a lot of layers of complications.
So I always say I have the scrappy heart of a solo person in my
(06:13):
you know, that's the kind of way I run things. I've never been like, let's
have a big team. I don't like layers of complexity.
I just I started on that path when I started growing my agency,
and I was so much happier, like, by reducing the team and having
things be really, really slim. So for me,
while I am not solo, I am in my heart.
(06:35):
Yeah. And I feel like that's the like, that's the energy that you bring
into the work that you do is this, like, scrappiness to it. Right?
And I do feel like as especially as small business owners, we kinda have to
have that energy. Like, we don't have the, like, endless amounts of
funding that some of these, like, larger Yeah. You know, companies have. And
so, like, to be able to sustain our businesses, we do
(06:57):
have to, like, think strategically and be really smart about how we use all of
our funds, including, you know, paying our team and how that how that works
out. So they I love that you have that. So, so you wrote the book
basically wrote the book on staying solo. So what are what are some of the
things, the common myths that you break down in the book about, like,
staying solo? Yeah. So I think one of the biggest
(07:19):
things is a lot of people have this hang up. They're not a real business
if they're this team of one or they're just, like, you and your assistant.
Right? People get really stuck on this. And the reality
is is that the majority of businesses in The US and in the
Western world, all the statistics point to are one
person businesses. Yeah. You know? Like,
(07:41):
we need to stop having the conversation around
entrepreneurship. We really focused on scale,
on rapid growth, on startups, on, like the
culture of entrepreneurship is very much this cultural celebration
of being big when the reality of entrepreneurship
is solo. So there's this real digger. And the second
(08:04):
I point that out to people they go. And then the second thing
is, is that, especially for people have been operating in the
kind of freelance online business world, they have a really
inflated idea of what success looks like.
In The US, the number I share in the book is the average
one person business is making $43,000 a year.
(08:28):
But meanwhile, in online business world, hundred k is like a
joke. You're only making 6 figures. Right? Like
and then it was seven figures and eight figures and all the figures. And the
reality is is most people are creating these roles
for themselves to have the freedom and flexibility and all the things that were
promised. But, ultimately, the goal isn't to make more
(08:49):
money. The goal is to get the time freedom and everything else.
And there's a lot of data I bring into, the front part of the book
to set up all my argument. And there's an entire, study
of by state in The US of, hey. You know what? Why do people start
their businesses? Money was very low on the list.
And I think we get we start off with one thing and then it morphs
(09:12):
over time and we start to feel bad about ourselves. We start to really
see, like, oh, I'm not earning enough. I'm not good enough. I should be
hiring. I'm not legitimate. I'm a joke. And the
reality is, is out in the non entrepreneurial online
business world, this is the way business is. So why don't we just,
like, drop all this crap, cut the bullshit out, and, like,
(09:34):
actually focus on what our
businesses need for us to find them to be simple and sustainable
and to not take over our lives. Yeah. Wow. So is that number,
the the 43 ks, is that, that's the profit or is
that? That top line revenue. Top line. So I'm
like, not even expenses. Wow. Okay. So, yeah, I feel like that is a
(09:56):
huge reality check. And it's so funny too. You you talked about how,
you know, when we first start our businesses, money isn't that
high up on the list. And that is true for me too. You got me
thinking about, like, I started my business because I just like it. Like, I like
my thing, and I like doing it. And then somewhere along the way, it's like
more and more and more. And, like, even now, a lot of the changes
(10:18):
that I've made in my business is because I'm, like, shifting more into the things
that I just I just like more. Yes. Even though now
I make less than I have ever had in my business, actually.
But I feel more fulfilled because I have more time to spend
with my kids, which like right now is the most important thing to me. Right?
And so it's so interesting how that money number sometimes
(10:40):
overshadows our goals. And I do think it is
the marketing hype, right, of all of this. So
so as as, as we go into this idea of, like, staying solo,
what are some of the things we need to keep in mind so that we
can have a sustainable business and maintain all those flexibility things that we
want? Yeah. So the the very first thing is I talk about
(11:02):
these six different pillars, and basically every pillar is a chapter or couple
chapters in the book. And the very first one I talk about is
salary. Because while it is not about the money,
we all you know, all things being equal, we all have
businesses because we do need to make some money to, you know, feed,
clothe, you know, survive, live in this, you know, capitalist hellscape we're
(11:24):
in. So one of the biggest things I see is people
overinvesting in their business as solo business owners. We've all been there.
We've all done it, buying all the things, chasing after the the
dream TM, if you will. And
we need to get very realistic about, like, how much money
do I need from the business, and what activities do I need to be
(11:47):
doing to ensure that I'm able to pay myself first. Because if you're not
payable to pay yourself consistently from your business, what's gonna happen?
You're gonna become burnt out. You're gonna become resentful. You're not
gonna feel fulfilled by it. You need your, at a
minimum, your basic needs to be being met. And I want people to be doing
better than their basic needs. Stop paying scammy business coaches
(12:09):
on the Internet, all your money, and then getting the
leftovers. I want you to reverse engineer that. And I have a
calculator that goes with the book to be like, hey. This is how much money
I need in my life. How much money do I actually need to be
making? What are my expenses? And start to keep an eye on those
numbers really strategically. And I brought in some really smart
(12:30):
people into that chapter to talk about, like, how do you pay yourself? What
should you be doing? Like, getting into the mechanics of the money that
I'm not an expert on, but these smart money people, CPAs,
bookkeepers actually are. Yeah. I love that you you
emphasize the money piece because I can't tell you how many times
I've been on, like, consult calls with someone where they come in and they wanna
(12:53):
hire my agency for services. And I'm asking them these questions
like, okay, you know, how much revenue are you making per month
or, how how much does it cost? Like, what's the cost of goods sold or
things like that. And they don't know the answers. And it's like, we can't market.
We can't even do anything until you know those answers. Otherwise, you're just paying
me to post on social media for you. And, like, that's that's I mean, for
(13:14):
fun, sure. If you wanna do that, more power to you. But, like, we wanna
run the business here. And so I love that you start with the with the
numbers of it all because it it's the reality that we all have to face.
And I think it's one of those things too where if you get caught up
in the hype, you end up spending so much time on the busy work.
I'm gonna call out marketing here. Okay. This is a marketing podcast. We
(13:36):
spend so much time on busy work. Sometimes it's
marketing. And then we feel like nothing's working because we actually haven't looked at the
numbers to see where that all lies. So, do you talk about marketing
and how how do we how do we put marketing as the line item in
all of this? You know, I really touch on marketing in the
systems part of it because it is
(13:58):
nobody wants especially as a solo business owner, no one wants
to, like, systems. Do I really need system? And it's like, stop thinking of
systems as, like, these things that, like, are going to constrain us and the
things that actually let us get what we need to get done, get it done
in a really focused way, and making really strategic decisions to
say, you know what? My last five clients have come from
(14:19):
referrals. I've never ever got a lead on social
media. So do I need to be doing social media? Or why
am I this is what I see all the time. Building an email list, which
is for people that are not buying retainer services.
Like, get really clear on what that marketing is and then create a
really simple system where you know what is the cadence.
(14:41):
You're not having to reinvent the wheel. So if you are doing specific
marketing activities, you have a plan. And I just call it, like, the minimally
viable marketing plan. Like, please just start with that. Yes.
Please. Please. Please. I love that you use a referral example because
there are so many times where people say that to me. Oh, it's referrals referrals.
And they desperately want they want the magic pill of social media, but they're
(15:03):
marketing to the wrong people. Like, if referrals are your people, go after referrals. And,
yeah, you can find them on social media, but you if you gotta go into
it with that mindset. I love this. I love this. Okay. So we're
staying solo. We are, you know, being strategic with
our time, But at what point do we start outsourcing?
So do you talk in the book about getting support
(15:24):
even while staying solo? What does that look like? Yeah. So one
of the pillars is support, and I feel like this is a really
common place where people go wrong. They feel like
solo means alone. Yeah. Like, nobody is a
business owner. Nobody should be doing this alone. And
support can take a lot of different forms. And this is your like, how do
(15:46):
you have a whole chapter on support? Well, I talk about entrepreneurial
loneliness because it's a well documented and very studied
thing at this point, and the isolation that goes on, the
fact that we all have different needs, we need different supports.
And we often think of support as I need to hire
a business coach or I need to hire a VA. Support
(16:08):
can come in a lot of different forms. It can come in in terms of
upscaling or, it can come in personal
support. I talk about personal support all the time with my clients.
And that a lot of times is the most impactful type of support. Hey.
Your back hurts because you're spending a lot of time in your design?
Maybe you need a massage. Oh, you're struggling with x, y, and
(16:30):
z? Maybe you need therapy. Maybe you need
your groceries delivered or a produce box. Like, the support
we get does not have to come down to pure support in the business.
It could be having a having a very specific tool. So looking
at support from a, I can't do this by myself, you know,
no business owner is an island type thing, and being like, where do
(16:53):
I actually need support? And sometimes that's gonna be like, hey, I need some business
friends because I haven't left my house, and I need to talk to
people who get it because talking to my partner or
my cats is not a healthy way to do this.
Yeah. Get the support. I like, my Walmart delivery
guy, oh, man. That's my support right there. Can't do it.
(17:15):
Can't do without him. Okay. So let's talk
about this idea of okay. Yeah. We're solo. We have our
support. But there's this concept that I I run into all the time where
people wanna and if this is you, don't feel bad, but they wanna seem
like they're bigger than they are. Right? Like, they like, they on the website, they're
like, oh, we here's how we help everybody. Or, like,
(17:38):
somebody asked me the other day if my assistant was AI. They were like, oh,
is Jemmy a real person? I'm like, what do you mean? Yes. She's real she's
a real person. People are creating yeah. Like, creating
AI assistance to, like, make themselves seem like they're bigger
than they are. Why? Why do why do people do this? Do you know?
I feel like this ties back to kind of the beginning of, like, the the
(18:02):
business legitimacy thing. And you were
in that series I did, the staying solo story series.
One of the interviews I did with one of my longtime
clients, she tells a story. This is Emily Gertenbach, and she tells a
story about going to a networking event. And someone keeps badgering her
about when she's gonna hire and how bad it made her feel.
(18:24):
And there is this idea, like, if
you don't have a team, employees, a
brick and mortar, all these things, are you even legit? Are you
even real? You're just playing business in your office or at your
kitchen table or whatever. And the reality is is that
(18:45):
that it's about ego. It's about vanity. It's about so many
things. And I I find it really interesting
when, like, I will pop my team answers emails
in our, you know, shared inbox, but so do I. I will pop in
and answer emails sometimes on the customer service side or different things. And people
are, like, so surprised that it's actually me.
(19:08):
Because we have all been conditioned in this online world to
feel, like, these celebrity entrepreneurs running the businesses
are untouchables, and we should be worshiping them. And the reality
is is, like, people at this point in time,
I'm gonna I'm gonna call it right now. They don't give a shit if you
have a huge team. They care if you have skills and experience and you
(19:29):
do what you say you're gonna do. Because, unfortunately, over the last ten
years of the online business world, like, the bar is so low, it's in hell
right now. Oh, lord. Am I
wrong? You're not wrong. I do
feel like, unfortunately, this is where we are in the service industry.
And especially going into now. So now not only are
(19:52):
we competing against the low expectations that other people have set in
their business, but also AI. I feel like there's
this assumption that it's such a magical thing that it's
like people people think it's the end all be all. And then
they come to us and they expect us to be able to do things, or
they expect the eye to be able to do things that it can't. And it's
(20:13):
like, okay. So we're battling against two expectations here with
this, which is just it's so freaking wild. I think we're just heading into a
wild time. But like you said, when you go into your inbox and you answer
an email, I think that actually helps people connect with you
more. And it it kind of like bridges this
gap right now between, like, there's so much information online that
(20:36):
sometimes we just want a human being. It reminds me of, like, when you
call the bank and you're like, give me the human. I don't want the automate
I don't want the automated. Give me the human. I feel like that's where we
are right now. I think example this morning, my husband's off
work. We need to get a railing installed on our front step
because there's not one and it's dangerous. And it's been six years and we figure
(20:57):
someone's gonna fall off eventually. So he he call basically
gets in touch with two places. One person says, great. I'm in the area. I'm
gonna come give you a quote. The other one says, hey. Can you take
pictures and send a sketch? Wait. They want you to sketch
it? Yes. No. Yeah. That's why he's
like, absolutely not. And I mean, the man is an artist. He can do
(21:19):
it, but I'm he he was just like, no. So we think of that
example in your business. Like, part of being a
service business owner is actually providing service. And I feel like in the
push to have boundaries and say no and, like, I support all those things. There's
an entire chapter on boundaries in the book. But we need to remember,
like, we actually need to be providing a service and doing what we
(21:40):
say we're gonna do and not overpromising and not just trying to do the least
amount of work for the most amount of money. Like, there needs to
be some integrity in this. And, our mutual
friend, Michelle Mazer, and I just recorded a episode of
our podcast duped on AI and shitification.
Because what I'm seeing is the coach to AI, you know,
(22:03):
consultant pipeline is real. As the coaching industry is saying, we've got
an AI industry replacing it. And I I use AI. I don't think it's
bad. But when I see someone being like, pay
for six weeks of coaching with my bot, Are you
what are you on? Look. Yes.
Oh, I saw it for real on the Internet. Oh,
(22:25):
man. I mean, I guess if we can think it, it's it's being done.
Listen, I'm a huge fan of AI. I love using it. I talk to Chatty,
ChattyPT every day. Sure. I love it. And it's like a
calculator, man. It's not it's not replacing the human
anyways. Okay. Let me shift gears a little bit
because I wanna get a little bit nosy about your book marketing. I
(22:47):
loved the podcast series that you did for your
book marketing. But before we get into that, I want you to give us
the the overall 10 foot view, hundred foot view of your book
marketing headed into the launch of Staying Solo. Oh my
gosh. I'm just gonna say to anyone who wants to write a book, it is
a lot of work as an indie author because it is me.
(23:10):
And, like, yes, I have a team, but here's the reality. I have a
very small team, and we've got an agency to run.
We've got BS free business to run, and, like, I didn't know what I was
doing, so I couldn't give really good instructions. So, I mean, I have lots of
friends who've had books, everything who've given me lots of guidance, but I had to
get really scrappy. Like, that was a lot of I had to do a lot
(23:32):
of swipe files. I created a whole secondary podcast for
it. You know, multiple episodes of my podcast. I've
been doing all the podcast interviews. Like, this
is 10,000 foot. This is a massive marketing
project over and above everything else we are already doing.
And I think the interesting thing is, like, yes, there's the
(23:53):
time and the energy and commitment of writing the book. And then there's the
hard expenses of writing the book, which right now I'm looking at
about $12,000 of, like, you know, what's gone
into book marketing, copies, sponsorships, all the
things. I mean, that's I'm sure that cost will mount over time, which
with my business model, we were I'm already starting to see
(24:16):
that kind of be recouped. But if you have a business model where you're selling,
like, $2 stickers, writing a book is not gonna be the way to go.
Yeah. I mean, my year long masterminds, I sell a couple of those
those expenses are recouped. And I didn't do it for
necessary this, like, massive influx of business. I did it because
I wanted to basically put everything
(24:38):
together in one neat package, and it's a really good
entry point for people into my world. Yeah. I love this. To
me, it's like, it's like the best business card you can
ever Exactly. Give out, right? Because if someone doesn't know who
you are, I could buy the book and be like, Oh, here's everything you need
to know. And then once you're done with that, come to me and I'll I'll
(24:59):
give you the next step because Maggie has a lot of options, you know, and
so I really like that you did that. I'm always impressed with people who could
do this because, I do not have the patience. How long did it
take you to write the book? A year. And I'm
a write just for like, I am a writer. That is
my that is my craft. That is my thing. I had
(25:20):
a lot of existing material to pull together, but, oh,
the I really went over the top with making the case and
the research. Like, anyone who reads the book will be like, this is
a very well researched and cited book. And if you don't like research, just skip
the first three chapters and get into the guts. I literally have it like a
how to use this book because that section is not for everyone. But if anyone
(25:42):
wants to argue with me, I'd be like, see page 47.
Let let me just pull up my notes here and show you how it's
done. I love this. Oh my gosh. This book is on my read list.
Once I get, like, some time away from these little kids, I'm gonna dive into
it. I already have a plan. I love this. So back to the
private podcast. I love private podcast because for me, especially
(26:06):
in this season of my life, I need something audio that I can listen while
we're out walking, doing j care drop off, all of this. How did
that go and and embedded into the launch of the book?
You know, that I really I really partway through was like,
what have I done? Oh, no. I was like I was like, oh,
wow. I just created a whole other project on top of the
(26:28):
book, on top of everything else. Yeah. But I'm really glad we did it
because number one, the Staying Solo podcast, I
very, like, very, very, very rarely do interviews on
that podcast. And there's so many people I wanted to talk to that
were either featured in the book or kind of in my bigger world. And
I was I really enjoyed having those conversations, and I've got
(26:50):
so much positive feedback on it. And I'd have to look at the numbers,
but, I mean, right out of the gate, there was, like, a hundred downloads right
there. Boom. Like and when I say a hundred I should say a hundred sign
ups, It's not a hundred downloads. So, you know, that's
getting it in front of those people. And it's the nice thing
about it is the conversations are completely evergreen. So, you know,
(27:12):
over the summer, hey. I'm gonna be like, hey. You missed the Staying Solo
podcast we're on hiatus? Go listen to the private podcast.
Because if there's one thing I am going to do with all this is repurpose
it for all of eternity. For here and now and
forever. Amen. I love this. So I wanna talk a little bit about your goals
from this because I do find that one of the hardest parts in marketing in
(27:34):
general is once you set out to do the thing, it's after
you've done it measuring the success of especially such a large
campaign like this took you a year to write it, so much,
investment to go into publishing self publishing. You're
still on this marketing tour of it all. What are your goals?
Let's let's give it an end date by the end of twenty twenty five. What
(27:57):
are what would make this a huge success for you? What would make this a
huge success for me is, a, I want books in
hands and eyeballs reading the books. Right? Like, they're you know, it's
multi step. Get the book in front of people, get them to
read the book, and then hopefully get them into my world. And we are
already seeing, you know, beyond those initial email sign ups around,
(28:19):
the podcast. We've had some really meaningful list growth. I'd have to
actually go look at the numbers, but meaningful for us. We don't have a giant
list, in terms of just people signing up for the resource kit that goes with
the book. I've had been able to have a lot of podcast conversations.
So, you know, we're we're broadening the net because one of
the things that I think would actually really
(28:42):
interest people is my addressable community is not
huge. Like, as much as I seem to be everywhere, you know,
my list is not massive. I don't have massive social media
following. I'm just really loud. I'm actually not that loud, but I'm
loud around my marketing. Right? So Yeah. And if
you actually look at the numbers, like, that is how I'm consistently
(29:04):
able to outperform what my numbers say I should
be able to do in terms of conversions and just engagement with my
community. So, for me, this is just a awareness and a
visibility exercise at this point. And, like, would I like to sell a thousand books
by the end of the year? Yes. Do I think I'm going to? I don't
know. Book reporting is really slow. I don't know where I'm at right now.
(29:27):
Yeah. I love that. Okay. I wanna go rewind a sec because you mentioned this
resource kit. Is this something that's like at the end of the book, they get
to the end of the book, and you're like, hey, if you want more sign
up? I have it sprinkled throughout the book. Oh, nice. I
love that. I think that's such a great way to encourage people
to take that next step. Especially you mentioned things like
(29:48):
calculators and like tangible things that you can implement with the
book. Some of the books that stick with me, I always know that those are
the things that go along with it. I love it. I love it. Okay.
So we're nearing the end of our conversation today.
Last question. Do you think that
solo businesses mean that the business is more
(30:10):
human? I'm gonna say yes.
Tell me more. Well, I think and I'm gonna come at this from a couple
different angles, is number one, you know, like, if you
compare it to an agency, one of
the big things everyone goes through when they transition from solo
to an agency is convincing people that their team is as
(30:32):
good as they are, if not better. And when you're
a solopreneur, you never have to deal with that. So I feel
like one of the biggest fears our clients have is, like, what makes
you great is not gonna carry through. And whether
it's true in an agency or not, I do feel like you
being the face of the business also humanizes it. It it's just an
(30:54):
easier thing for brains to wrap around. Not saying agencies
are not human. My team is very human, not AI. But
at the end of the day, there's that. I think the other thing is a
solo business owner. It's a lot easier to just build
things, do your marketing based on your point of view,
your reputation. Like, you don't have as many
(31:16):
things to consider. And I'll give you an example. When I had a business partner,
it was very challenging at times because not that we had differing
viewpoints, but how I would express that versus how she would
express it were very different. And I I'm
glad I had that lesson because once we had wrapped up
in pardon on very amicable terms, I always like to say that because
(31:39):
business partnership breakups are always a thing on the Internet.
And that actually was one of the reasons I was able to sharpen my voice
because I was like, oh, no one's here to hold me back? Great. I can
say whatever I want. Yes. Yeah. You I
do find that so having been on both sides of this
now, I feel more nimble, which is both a pro and a con
(32:01):
like, I don't think either side of this is, like, go all one way or
the other. But, like, I can be very nimble with my marketing.
Like, I can wake up today and be like, I'm gonna do this now and
then just do it. Whereas before when I had a team, there was, like, a
lot of things to think about before doing that. But, also, it's just
me. So some days, lately, especially, where I've been sick this week
(32:22):
y'all, I woke up. I was like, I don't feel like working today. And then
I just don't work today. There's no one to report to. It's just me. So,
I do find that that part like, having a team for me helped me stay
more motivated versus, being nimble. So two sides, but
I I love that you said that though about the humanity of it all. I
find there's just gonna be a premium on humanity because of AI AI
and robots and everything. So I love this. Thank you so
(32:46):
much, Maggie. And can I just I wanna add something to that? In a
world of AI, in a world of where, you
know, we have all these people that are separate and we can't talk to
them. You being able to show up and be human and real and,
like, actually serve your clients, connect with your clients, have conversations with your
clients, and being willing to do that is a huge differentiator.
(33:08):
So I think for anyone who's feeling uncomfortable about AI right now is, like,
as a solo business owner, you have a huge advantage. And I will just say
as someone who works on the agency side with corporate clients, I am seeing
my corporate clients hire more and more solo practitioners
than ever before because they don't wanna pay for the
layers and complexity and, frankly, the bullshit that goes on
(33:31):
with a lot of the agencies they've dealt with in the past. Yeah. Interesting.
Okay. Well, you heard it here first, folks. Staying
Solo may be a way to go for you. I love this. Okay. So everyone
who's listening is like, give me the book now. Please, Maggie, tell us more
about it and where they can find it. Okay. So the book you can find
at stayingsolobook.com. It is everywhere. It is Amazon,
(33:53):
Indigo, Barnes and Nobles, bookshop dot org. So if you don't wanna shop on the
bad place, you don't have to shop on the bad place. And it's in
oh, Kobo. How did I say that? It's all literally all the places.
I've been indie authoring all over the place being like, hi. Can you stop my
book? Yeah. Like I said, the humiliate
of all this. It's been very, sobering.
(34:16):
Yeah. So that is the best place to find book is wherever books are sold.
And if you wanna check out the Sting Solo Stories podcast, which includes
Andrea's story, it's at stingsolostories.com. And
I live on the Internet at b s free business and the Sting Solo
podcast. Yay. I love it. All of those links will be in the show notes
y'all on onlinedre.com/350nine. Get the book, listen to the
(34:37):
podcast, enjoy all of it. Thank you so much, Maggie, for being on the show
today. Thanks, Andrea. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to
another episode of the Mindful Marketing podcast. If you want
more mindful marketing goodness in your life, make sure you check out the Mindful
Marketing Lab. Coming up next, we're doing our famous
What's the Scoop session where I go into all the nitty gritty of all the
(34:59):
marketing news and trends happening on the Internet, really breaking it down so that
you have what you need to know and not all the hypotheticals out there in
the world. So come on in. That's gonna be on June 3.
So in the Mindful Marketing Lab, join us there. Next week, I am having a
conversation with Lindsey Busfield all about unlocking the
Google algorithm, especially that cute little box at the
(35:21):
top right now that says, hey, here's what AI says. If you wanna learn about
that and more, stay tuned next week. I'll see you then. Bye for now.
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