February 12, 2025 • 34 mins
The Australian Stroke and Heart Research Accelerator, established through MTPConnect’s Targeted Translation Research Accelerator for cardiovascular disease and diabetes on behalf the Medical Research Future Fund, is a research centre with a bold vision to deliver new health outcomes in coronary artery disease, heart failure and stroke.
Through clinical impact and entrepreneurship, an Australian wide network of academics, institutions, and industry partners are driving a high potential research portfolio and an education and training program with a commercialisation focus.
We talk to stroke and heart research experts Professor Geoffrey Donnan AO and Professor Jason Kovacic about the Centre’s groundbreaking work covering various pipeline projects, including BiVACOR’s Total Artificial Heart, advanced tele-robotic thrombectomy technologies and a national research clinical trials register, all aimed at improving health outcomes for Australians.
Joining host Caroline Duell is Lauren Kelly, MTPConnect’s Senior Director, Targeted Translation Research Accelerator (TTRA) for diabetes and cardiovascular disease.
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Episode Transcript
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Natalie Vella (00:02):
This is the MTP Connect podcast.
Join us as we connect you withthe people behind the
life-saving innovations drivingAustralia's growing life
sciences sector from bench tobedside for better health and
wellbeing.
Mtp Connect acknowledges thetraditional owners of country
that this podcast is recorded onand recognises that Aboriginal
(00:25):
and Torres Strait Islanderpeoples are Australia's first
storytellers and the holders offirst science knowledge.
Caroline Duell (00:35):
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm Caroline Duell.
The Australian Stroke and HeartResearch Accelerator is a
research centre with a boldvision to transform the field of
cardiovascular research anddeliver new health outcomes in
coronary artery disease, heartfailure and stroke Through
clinical impact andentrepreneurship.
An Australian-wide network ofacademics, institutions and
(00:57):
industry partners are driving ahigh potential research
portfolio and an education andtraining program.
The Accelerator was establishedthrough MTP Connect's Targeted
Translation Research Acceleratorfor Cardiovascular Disease and
Diabetes on behalf of theMedical Research Future Fund.
Joining us to talk about theAustralian Stroke and Heart
(01:18):
Research Accelerator, or ASHRA,is Professor Geoffrey Donnan in
Melbourne and Professor JasonKovacic in Sydney.
My co-host today is LaurenKelly, Director of MTP Connect's
TTRA program.
Welcome to the podcast, Geoff,Jason and Lauren.
Thanks for having us.
Prof Jason Kovacic (01:39):
Thanks for having us here.
It's really great to have theopportunity to do this.
I'd like to start my bit byjust acknowledging country and
saying that, on behalf of all ofASHRA, we acknowledge the
Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander people of our great
nation and pay our respects toElders, past, present and
emerging.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (01:55):
I would endorse that entirely From where
I am from, Wurundjeri, Countryof the Kulin nation, and in
Victoria we're still embarkingupon a treaty.
So I think we're in foroptimistic times.
Caroline Duell (02:10):
We're going to talk today about the Australian
Stroke and Heart ResearchAccelerator and I'm interested
to know from you both, Jeff andJason, the unmet needs that the
Research Accelerator is focusingon From the stroke world.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (02:25):
from the ASHRA point of view, we're
really focusing on thepre-hospital arena, and the
incredible unmet need here isthat for stroke and it applies
to heart, it applies to many,many diseases, but particularly
acute vascular diseases thedisparity and availability to
(02:49):
modern interventions across thenation is terrible, in that what
we are lucky enough to have inmetropolitan Australia is almost
completely lacking in rural andremote Australia, where about a
third of our population lives.
And so by bringing the hospitalto the patient, if I could put
(03:12):
it that way, we are overcomingthis in metropolitan areas, but
in remote areas, as you canimagine, doing that is fraught
with difficulty.
So that's the huge unmet needwe're focusing on with the
stroke component of ASHRA.
Caroline Duell (03:31):
And obviously with stroke as well any stroke
treatment we know that time isof the essence, so this is
absolutely critical if we'regoing to change health outcomes
for Australians.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (03:43):
Absolutely , Caroline.
And we don't use the mantratime is brain lightly, because
every second counts and everyminute, in fact every minute,
we're losing over 2 billionneurons.
So imagine we don't want to bedoing that.
Caroline Duell (04:02):
Jason, over to you on the cardiovascular side
of things.
Prof Jason Kovacic (04:05):
Yeah, I think the unmet need is enormous
.
I mean, we still know thatcardiovascular disease is the
number one killer in our countryand, interestingly, even the
number two killer, which isactually dementia.
Dementia has cardiovasculardisease as one of its major
drivers and cardiovasculardisease accounts for 25 to 30
percent of dementia.
(04:26):
So it's a huge burden ofdisease in our country and, uh,
you know, our approach tocardiovascular disease still has
a long way to go.
We've got, you know, forexample, national screening
programs around breast cancerand other conditions and, as a
number one killer, we don't yeteven have a national screening
program around cv.
So there's a huge problem Interms, specifically, of ASHRA.
(04:49):
The remit of ASHRA is really todrive the acceleration of
research, translation andresearch impact, both from
high-end and technical devices,but also to the community and
the greater population, and makesure we're serving the needs of
all Australians, includingAboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander people.
(05:09):
So we do have a portfolio ofvery exciting projects that
ASHRA is driving right acrossthe spectrum of cardiovascular
disease.
That spans from heart failureheart attack, digital health
innovations, clinical trials,potential new drug therapies and
more, from heart failure heartattack, digital health
innovations, clinical trials,potential new drug therapies and
more, and these are obviouslytargeting different disease
(05:32):
areas, different stages ofevolution of the translational
journey.
And what's great about ASHRA isit's not necessarily trying to
drive every project to clinicalimplementation.
It's just aiming to help aproject go from one part of a
pipeline along to the next.
So it might be A to B, it mightbe M to N or it might be X to Y
(05:53):
, but it's along that wholejourney of translation.
Caroline Duell (05:56):
And this type of focus has not been done in
Australia before.
This is really a first go atthis.
Prof Jason Kovacic (06:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and full credit to
MTP Connect for, you know,conceiving of this program.
I think it really is an unmetneed and Australia is great at
clinical trials, we're great atinterventions.
But that gap in translation iswhere we really struggle and
that's for a whole range ofreasons.
We don't have the depth, forexample, of really large
(06:25):
industry partners in Australialike they do in the US and
Europe and Australia has CSL,for example but we don't have a
lot of other major industryplayers biopharmaceutical and
tech companies at our doorstep.
So it makes it harder.
And ASHRA, is aimed at pickingup some of that translational
(06:45):
challenge that we have inAustralia and trying to help
across the sector.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (06:50):
I think the term accelerator is perfect
for our program because, as youwere saying, carolyn, the
ability to do this elsewhere, aswe're doing it, is pretty
limited.
So our program in terms ofaccelerating, as Jason was
saying, from A to B or X to Y,depending where you are on the
(07:13):
spectrum, is fairly unique.
We admit that a lot of theseprojects would chug along if
ASHRA didn't exist, but theymight A chug along so slowly
they've just been overtaken andbecome irrelevant.
Or B a huge competitiveadvantage both in Australia and
(07:34):
globally would be lost.
So accelerator places usperfectly as to what we're all
about.
Caroline Duell (07:41):
And for those that don't know, ashrae or the
Australian Stroke and HeartResearch Accelerator.
You're like a massiveAustralian network where anyone
and everyone that's involved inresearch translation,
universities, medical researchinstitutes have all sort of come
together to really put theirefforts behind a number of
(08:03):
different research projects andsome other things like training
programs and things.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (08:07):
Yes, I think Jason will expand on it
even better than I.
But the ability to bring groupstogether, as you've said,
universities, researchinstitutes, clinical trials
organisations, et cetera,clinical trials organisations,
etc.
(08:27):
Etc.
With a common vision andmission in mind, is quite unique
, and collaboration iseverything about getting things
done, isn't it?
Through these mechanisms we'regoing to be able to get much
more done than we would haveever been able to do with
working, say, one or two of us,or even three of us, but having
(08:51):
a dozen, two dozen, with acommon purpose really energises
and turbocharges the wholevision we hold.
Prof Jason Kovacic (09:02):
I'd just add that ASHRA we certainly
don't have every absolute keystakeholder in the sector under
the core investigative group ofASHRA, but what we do have with
ASHRA is a broad representationof all the key elements that are
relevant to the sector andwe've really made it our
business to be as inclusive aspossible across the sector.
(09:26):
So even for the key, for majorstakeholders that aren't
necessarily core partners ofASHRA, we've tried very hard to
bring them in to support theirprojects, to have them engaged
at our meetings and conferencesand so on.
So we have really tried tobring the whole sector together,
to bring the whole sectortogether and indeed cover a
(09:48):
cross-spectrum of researchprojects that speak to the whole
need of the disease burden inour country.
Lauren Kelly (09:52):
So, jason and Geoff, you've both spoken to, I
guess, the breadth of workthat's being undertaken within
ASHRA and you've spoken to thecommercialisation-focused
projects, but also the healthequity work that you're doing
within ASHRA as well, obviouslyall with the aim of having
enormous impact for peopleliving with coronary artery
(10:15):
disease, heart failure, stroke.
So how about we sort of take alittle bit of a deeper dive now
on a number of the projectswithin the ASHA portfolio?
So you've got an excitingpartnership with a commercial
company, bivercore, and thecutting edge research that
they're undertaking with thedevelopment of a total
(10:37):
artificial heart.
So, jason, could you speak tothe partnership that you've
built with Bivercore and thework that you're actually
undertaking with them here inAustralia?
Prof Jason Kovacic (10:45):
Yeah, thanks, lauren.
It is a particularly excitingproject with Bivercore and
particularly timely.
As I think many of thelisteners will be aware, the
first few Bivercores have nowbeen implanted mostly in the US
and they've actually gone verywell and we're thrilled about
that.
In full disclosure, thepartnership between Bivacor and
(11:10):
ASHRA had little, if anything todo with those first initial
implants and the Bivacorevolution of their total
artificial heart has been alifelong journey for their CEO,
daniel Timms, and it's awonderful story how Daniel's
father was suffering from heartfailure and they were
desperately trying.
(11:30):
Daniel was desperately tryingto conceive and develop this
title artificial heart for hisfather Didn't make it.
It was a long, long process todevelop a product like this,
obviously, but he's now gotthere.
I think he was sleeping onsofas and doing all sorts of
things to try and make it workand it's it's a real, you know,
hard luck, dream come true story, uh, for Daniel.
(11:51):
So we've with with the ashrapartnership.
It's really about taking one ofour key physicians here at the
victor chain cardiac researchinstitute in st vincent's
hospital, sydney, which is ChrisHaywood.
Chris has been really leadingthe charge with Bivacor at St
Vincent's, certainly in one ofthe keys in Australia.
Chris has a longstandingrelationship with Bivacor.
(12:14):
Chris's work was really abouttrying to optimize how to
implant the device, trying tooptimize some of the plumbing
and the connections, trying todevelop the training rig to help
surgeons learn to train inplanning the device.
So the partnership and theproject of work between ASHRA
and Bivacor really revolvedaround those aspects of the
(12:38):
tidal artificial heart and thatwork has actually gone really
well and has led to some changesinto developments that I'm sure
will become part of the way asBiVACOR device gets rolled out
to broader implantation at moreand more centres.
Some of the fruits of thispartnership with Astra will come
(12:59):
to play there.
So I think it's really excitingand, as I I said, the device
has been implanted now intohumans.
That was done just a couple ofmonths ago in Texas and it's
just been met with just suchamazing excitement around the
world for the opportunity thatopens up, which is really to
actually provide another optionfor patients suffering from
(13:23):
end-stage heart failure.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (13:33):
It's interesting that that story
which is about an Australian whohas his father was a plumber.
I think Jason was the story.
It just highlights the need foraccelerators like ASHRA and
more to develop all of thesethings onshore rather than being
forced to go offshore wherewe've got better access to
venture capital moneyparticularly.
(13:53):
But what we want to do is toencourage this sort of thing to
be able to be developed entirelyin Australia and then exported,
because then of course there'sgreater benefit for Australians
both in terms of health outcomesearlier and commercial benefits
later.
Lauren Kelly (14:12):
It's incredibly right, jeff, and I guess it's a
really important role thoughthat ASHRA is playing with this
particular project in helpingbetter understand and informing
the clinical workflow for thetotal artificial heart and the
implementation of that throughthose surgical processes.
So it's exciting work to bedone.
Another project maybe over toyou, jeff, that we'd like to
(14:35):
take a closer look at is a worldfirst a remote tele-robotic
endovascular thrombectomytechnology, and maybe you can
break that down a little bitmore for our listeners.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (14:51):
Yes, thanks, lauren.
Saying in our opening comments,one of the huge problems we
have in Australia as a massivecontinent is the lack of access
that rural and remote peoplehave to modern interventions,
and one of the great moderninterventions is thrombectomy
for large vessel occlusion inacute ischemic stroke.
(15:14):
And by that I mean what happensis within minutes or hours of
someone developing a stroke dueto a clot in a large blood
vessel.
If you can get to the rightcentre, you can put a catheter
up through the femoral artery inthe groin and basically drag
the clot out, and the remarkableresults that you see with this
(15:39):
are astonishing.
And people who are denselyhemiplegic and may have a life
ahead of them of severe, verysevere disability basically get
up and walk home.
And in terms of theeffectiveness of this therapy,
the so-called number needed totreat, that is, to benefit one
person, is two to three andthat's in the order of the same,
(16:04):
very similar to, say,penicillin with pneumonia.
So to put it in perspective asto how important this technology
is, now it can't be implementedin remote and rural Australia.
They just aren't the facilitiesor the staff.
So we're overcoming it by atelerobotic approach and we've
been working with a number ofcompanies we're ending up with,
(16:27):
mainly the Remedy Company, whichis CEOed by an Australian who's
got an office here in Melbourneas well and a bit above the
core story.
But we are to be the templatefor the rollout of the entire
program in an exemplary wayacross the country so that we
(16:48):
can demonstrate to the worldthat by having a centre and
remotely controlling the roboticthrombectomy in, say, alice
Springs or Darwin where we'relining things up, others around
the world will see how effectiveit is in this sort of
environment.
So very, very exciting stuff.
Lauren Kelly (17:09):
Yeah, and really impactful.
So when do you anticipate to begetting underway with this work
?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (17:15):
We've been doing work with silicon models
because you must get it rightbefore you do it with the humans
, et cetera and we'vedemonstrated with these silicon
models that it's extremelyeffective and safe and could be
done remotely.
And we'll be doing our first inhuman studies here early next
(17:35):
year.
Lauren Kelly (17:36):
Excellent.
Look forward to hearing aboutthe outcomes of those and you
have other stroke work thatyou're doing within ASHRA.
Would you like to share somemore about the other project
that you're working on?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (17:47):
Yes, another disruptive approach I
mentioned the concept broadconcept is we're in the
pre-hospital area, taking thehospital to the patient, because
, as we're saying, the everysecond and minute counts and the
key step in stroke managementis that you must have an image
(18:08):
to be able to make a diagnosis,because 80% of strokes are due
to the occlusion of a bloodvessel and 20%, totally
conversely, are due to a bleed,a burst blood vessel.
You'd imagine that theapproaches to managing each of
these is just totally different.
So you must have that image,and the problem is the image
(18:29):
that we access are either CTscans or MRI scans, which are in
large hospitals and theyusually weigh two or three tons
and they usually cost two orthree million dollars.
So what we're doing is workingon developing ultra-lightweight
imaging which we can put inmobile stroke ambulances and
also in air ambulances.
(18:50):
And the one we're working on,particularly for ASHRA, is an
ultra-lightweight scan whichwe're developing with the
Volumio company in Wellington,new Zealand, and we're just
about to start our firstclinical trials here, first in
world, here in Melbourne.
Lauren Kelly (19:10):
That is incredibly exciting and so thrilling to
hear that Australia really is onthe cutting edge and at the
forefront of this sort of workbeing undertaken in the world,
with Global Firsts as part ofthis initiative and Hal Rice and
Leticia de Villiers from GoldCoast Re, the telerobotic
(19:40):
initiative, very important.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (19:42):
As you said, it's multidisciplinary and
they're very much part of thiswhole endeavour.
Lauren Kelly (19:49):
And Jason, we've heard a lot about the medical
devices and tech that ASHRA issupporting, but you also have
other types of projects thatASHRA progresses.
You have the Join Us ResearchRegister.
Could you tell us a little bitmore about what that entails?
Prof Jason Kovacic (20:04):
So Join Us is a research register that's
led by Professor Bruce Neil fromthe George Institute for Global
Health, but I can speak to itbecause one of the sites for
Join Us is St Vincent's Hospital, where I'm a senior physician
and I'm actually the site leadfor Join Us at St Vincent's
Hospital.
So, as I've already said, youknow, cardiovascular disease is
(20:25):
one of the main drivers of deathin our country and morbidity
and one of the challenges wehave in Australia is that every
time we want to do a clinicaltrial we spend so much time,
effort and resource inrecruiting the patients into
those clinical trials.
And Join Us is really set up toget people to sign up to
(20:48):
basically to some extent agreeto be contacted and potentially
participate in clinical trials.
And the Join Us project isactually aiming to enrol up to
about 30,000 individuals withcardiovascular disease into the
research register and thatregister will streamline
recruitment processes for futurecardiovascular trials that have
(21:13):
ethics committee approval.
So the Join Us platform isactually already operational.
As I said, I'm the site leadhere at St Vincent's and it's
able to scale to accommodatethis new initiative and
partnership with ASHRA.
So implementation stillinvolves government approvals
and recruiting and traininglocal research staff, but by
having 30,000 people that haveactually joined up to Join join
(21:37):
us.
When we have a clinical trialthat needs to roll out, that
clinical trial can come to joinus and then actually go out to
the 30,000 participants and asksimply who's interested in being
in this trial or that trial orwhatever it might be.
So it should actuallystreamline clinical trial
enrolment, reduce the amount oftime and effort and money that's
(21:59):
actually wasted every time weset up a clinical trial and
ultimately I will enable us todo better quality trials more
efficiently and for less cost.
So I think it's reallyimportant, an important
initiative, and that's why Ipersonally have actually been
supporting Join Us for a coupleof years now and I think ASHRA
was only too enthusiastic to getbehind it and support it.
Lauren Kelly (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely A really critical aspect of
facilitating clinical trials.
Of course, the participants'involvement Join Us.
Is this a national register?
Prof Jason Kovacic (22:32):
Absolutely.
Join Us is a national registerand it's conceived to enhance
the efficiency of recruitingpatients with cardiovascular
disease right across Australia.
With this large sort of readyto invite cohort of people with
cardiovascular disease, toincrease the pace of research.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (22:50):
I think this is an incredibly important
initiative for both heartdisease and stroke.
I was going to ask Jasonwhether there are any similar
cohorts around the world, or arewe one of the first to have an
initiative like this?
Prof Jason Kovacic (23:07):
No, there are actually initiatives like
this in other countries that areall similar, but they're
different in their own way, sothis is something that's going
on internationally.
So it's important for us to dothis to maintain our competitive
edge and make this anattractive destination for
national and internationalclinical research, and I think
(23:30):
that also then has economicbenefits and employment benefits
to the country.
Lauren Kelly (23:35):
And is Join Us open to anybody who would like
to join.
Prof Jason Kovacic (23:39):
Yeah, great question.
So anyone can actually justGoogle Join Us or Bing, whatever
you're using, put in Join Usand it'll come up with the
relevant website.
It's very easy to click throughand sign up and give some basic
details.
Obviously, when you join, theregistry is interested in
(24:00):
knowing age and demographics,sex and a few other things, and
what type of cardiovasculardisease indeed patients may have
that are motivating them tojoin up.
But it's very easy to find andto navigate to the website and
actually join us.
Caroline Duell (24:16):
So you're working with a lot of research
teams all around the country.
Aside from the funding thatASHRA is providing for these
projects, what are some of theother ways that the ASHRA team
are supporting these researchprojects?
Prof Jason Kovacic (24:30):
Maybe I can lead off and say that one of
the key things that ASHRA hasalso done has been education
across the sector of both seniorinvestigators but also up and
coming in, junior investigators.
So one of the you know, one ofthe inherent challenges in this
and it's not unique to Australiais that, you know, researchers
(24:52):
train as researchers, and ifphysician researchers train as
physician researchers, we're notactually trained in as
physician researchers.
We're not actually trained intranslation and how you actually
translate a discovery, and itcan often take, you know, a
decade or more of dedicatedresearch to actually come up
with something that's actuallypatentable or, you know,
(25:14):
clinically implementable, and sopeople are often into their
mid-careers before suddenly theyactually need to translate
something.
So ASHRA has done a lot of workin terms of symposia, of
satellite meetings, of trainingworkshops, of educational
seminars and forums.
We have a dedicated educationand training committee and we've
(25:35):
had multiple, multiple meetings, training workshops, lectures
and so on, just about how do youcommercialize and dealing with
different aspects of that fromlegal aspects and how and when
do you file for patent, how andwhen do you bring in industry
partners and all of thosemultifaceted things that need to
be thought about fortranslation.
(25:56):
So that's just one example ofthe additional things that ASE
is doing in this space.
I think everyone appreciatesthat.
You know, researchers have notbeen trained in translation, but
it's never too late to learn,and each project is different.
I think this is another keylesson that's come out of ASHRA
is that every project has itsnuances and differences and its
(26:18):
own specific challenges, and sowhat might be relevant to one
project is completely irrelevant, and another project needs to
know about something else, andyou know one might need to know
about how do you roll out aclinical trial in a rural and
remote area.
Another one might havechallenges related to legal
contracts and IP.
You know both critical elementsof translation, but obviously
(26:39):
wildly different.
So ASHRA can and does cover offthat full spectrum of relevancy
to translation.
You know both critical elementsof translation, but obviously
wildly different.
So Ashford can and does coveroff that full spectrum of
relevancy to translation.
Caroline Duell (26:46):
I'm going to put this very sort of broad
question to you.
There's been lots of debateabout whether you know
Australia's great at researchbut not so good at translation.
But perhaps we are doing wellwith translation.
But you know there are somegaps.
Can sort of talk ourselves downall the time, but maybe we need
to be talking ourselves up.
What do you think about that?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (27:08):
perhaps, if I start off, I couldn't agree
more, carolyn.
I think we we do underestimateour abilities as as as a nation.
Uh, getting back to what wewere saying before about the
requirements, and I think we doneed to be out and about a lot
more than we are.
And that pitch session isexactly designed to help
(27:30):
particularly young investigatorsunderstand how to approach
various groups, venturecapitalists particularly, but
also almost any presentation youdo.
It's the old lift conversation,isn't it?
If you haven't persuadedsomeone by the time you get to
the eighth floor, you've got aproblem.
And I think teaching youngpeople the essence of delivery
(27:53):
and getting the message acrossin a very, very brief period of
time is part of that veryconcept of lifting our horizons
as to what we can do asAustralians, and particularly
among our younger colleagues.
Lauren Kelly (28:06):
I agree, and it's not just the commercial side of
things.
You need to understand how tohow to pitch to government, how
to pitch to health funds, how topitch to all the different
buyers and payers of products totruly enable that
implementation.
So it's great that ASHA isdoing that.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (28:25):
It's interesting having, I'm sure,
jason's in the same category.
I edited a stroke journal formany years and I saw during that
period I think it was about 13years I was editor and the
change in the requirements ofhow to present papers, which is
(28:46):
a reflection of the same sort ofneed to promulgate ideas, has
been quite dramatic.
And just say, for example, theabstract has to be so much
crisper than we used to do.
It has to be so much crisperthan we used to do.
It has to be.
To communicate, uh, crisply andefficiently has become a part
of our mantra and we must dothis in in an age where things
(29:09):
are moving faster than everbefore do you have anything to
add up to that jason?
Prof Jason Kovacic (29:13):
no, I'd agree.
I mean, I think the landscape'sconstantly changing.
And look um, research, as Jeffwas saying, publications,
getting you know there's more,there's greater expectations
when publishing, there's greaterexpectations across the whole
research sector and I thinkthat's something that that
includes translation, forexample, research reporting,
(29:35):
data handling, governance.
You know the need for robustdata handling, secure data
handling, and you know, inIndigenous research it's even
more critical.
So I think the landscape isconstantly evolving and I do
think you know, with the manypartners in ASHRA that cover off
(29:56):
different elements of researchand translation, we're well
positioned to actually adviseand be the sort of lead for the
nation on this.
And I think it's important to goback to where we started and to
say that ASHA was conceived notwith every player in the sector
, but with key elements thatcover the whole sector.
So ASHA includes, for example,the George Institute, which
(30:20):
really focuses on large-scaleclinical trials, and it also
includes the Victor Chan CardiacResearch Institute, which is
traditionally more aboutmolecules and mechanisms in the
beginning of the discoverypipeline.
University of Sydney and Monashand the Heart Hospital are also
key partners which fallsomewhere in the middle, but
also the Heart Hospital inVictoria has a huge emphasis on
(30:40):
patient care.
So we do have the full spectrumand I think that also speaks to
the full spectrum of all theelements that are needed for
translation.
Caroline Duell (30:49):
I'm interested to know working with industry,
do you think that that area hasbecome easier, more possible?
Is there more collaborations inthis space than there have been
?
Prof Jason Kovacic (31:01):
I think it's always been appreciated
that industry needs physicianscientists and researchers
working with them.
But I think we are getting moreacutely aware across the sector
of the real need to worktogether because nothing gets
translated in a vacuum and weneed to lean on each other.
(31:22):
So I do think those you knowthe relationships are getting
stronger and I thinkparticularly I mean it's the
whole purpose of ASHRA is tofacilitate those translations
and I think we're very acutelyaware that we need to work with
industry for a whole range ofreasons.
I mean it makes logical senseon every level to facilitate the
(31:44):
research journey andtranslation that we work hand in
glove.
So I think it's always beenthere.
But I think we're doubling downon those relationships and
trying to really streamlinethose processes and pathways and
learn better ways of workingtogether.
Lauren Kelly (31:59):
So, Jeff and Jason , can you talk us through the
vision of what's next for ASHRAon the research and translation
front?
Prof Jason Kovacic (32:08):
I think the MTP Connect has been a
wonderful partner for ASHRA andI believe we've been a wonderful
partner for MTP Connect becausewe're certainly very, very
actively looking to the futureof ASHRA and we sort of call it
ASHRA 2.0 amongst us.
But we've been planning forthat.
We've learned so much along theway and we're very keen for all
(32:31):
of those learnings andeverything we've done and all
the I think the partners we'vemade, the network we've created,
all of that should continue andcontinue strongly.
So we're very excited aboutexactly how our ASHRA 2.0 rolls
out.
We've got, I think, a very goodbroad sense of that, but we
need to just work out thedetails and finalise and action.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (32:52):
Yes, I agree, jason.
It's all about sustainabilityas the next stage, because I
think the idea behind theseaccelerators, I think, is an
extremely good one, and to seethem sort of wilt and die would
be a travesty.
So I think it behoves us, as weare trying to do, to develop
(33:16):
mechanisms for ongoing activityfor the ASHRA concept, and I
think we'll do that.
Caroline Duell (33:23):
Yeah, so the Research Centre has been funded
through the Medical ResearchFuture Fund, which is an
incredible initiative for healthresearch and translation in
Australia, and MTP Connecteddelivered a number of programs
on behalf of the MRF.
So it's great to, I guess, beat this point now I think it's
three years in ASHRA into thisnew model of accelerating
(33:48):
research into these criticalhealth needs, and we're
definitely going to be watchingto see what comes next for ASHRA
.
Prof Jason Kovacic (33:55):
We look forward to talking with you all
about it.
Caroline Duell (33:57):
It's been a real privilege to talk with you
today about just a couple ofresearch projects, because there
are many more that we haven'thad a chance to sort of dig
deeper on, so we reallyappreciate it.
That was Professor GeoffreyDonnan and Professor Jason
Kovachik from the AustralianStroke and Heart Research
Accelerator.
You've been listening to theMTP Connect podcast.
(34:21):
This podcast is produced on thelands of the Wurundjeri people
here in Narm, melbourne.
Thanks for listening to theshow.
If you love what you heard,share our podcast and follow us
for more.
Until next time.
This is the MTP Connect podcast.
Join us as we connect you withthe people behind the
life-saving innovations drivingAustralia's growing life
sciences sector from bench tobedside for better health and
wellbeing.
Mtp Connect acknowledges thetraditional owners of country
that this podcast is recorded onand recognises that Aboriginal
(00:25):
and Torres Strait Islanderpeoples are Australia's first
storytellers and the holders offirst science knowledge.
Caroline Duell (00:35):
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm Caroline Duell.
The Australian Stroke and HeartResearch Accelerator is a
research centre with a boldvision to transform the field of
cardiovascular research anddeliver new health outcomes in
coronary artery disease, heartfailure and stroke Through
clinical impact andentrepreneurship.
An Australian-wide network ofacademics, institutions and
(00:57):
industry partners are driving ahigh potential research
portfolio and an education andtraining program.
The Accelerator was establishedthrough MTP Connect's Targeted
Translation Research Acceleratorfor Cardiovascular Disease and
Diabetes on behalf of theMedical Research Future Fund.
Joining us to talk about theAustralian Stroke and Heart
(01:18):
Research Accelerator, or ASHRA,is Professor Geoffrey Donnan in
Melbourne and Professor JasonKovacic in Sydney.
My co-host today is LaurenKelly, Director of MTP Connect's
TTRA program.
Welcome to the podcast, Geoff,Jason and Lauren.
Thanks for having us.
Prof Jason Kovacic (01:39):
Thanks for having us here.
It's really great to have theopportunity to do this.
I'd like to start my bit byjust acknowledging country and
saying that, on behalf of all ofASHRA, we acknowledge the
Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander people of our great
nation and pay our respects toElders, past, present and
emerging.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (01:55):
I would endorse that entirely From where
I am from, Wurundjeri, Countryof the Kulin nation, and in
Victoria we're still embarkingupon a treaty.
So I think we're in foroptimistic times.
Caroline Duell (02:10):
We're going to talk today about the Australian
Stroke and Heart ResearchAccelerator and I'm interested
to know from you both, Jeff andJason, the unmet needs that the
Research Accelerator is focusingon From the stroke world.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (02:25):
from the ASHRA point of view, we're
really focusing on thepre-hospital arena, and the
incredible unmet need here isthat for stroke and it applies
to heart, it applies to many,many diseases, but particularly
acute vascular diseases thedisparity and availability to
(02:49):
modern interventions across thenation is terrible, in that what
we are lucky enough to have inmetropolitan Australia is almost
completely lacking in rural andremote Australia, where about a
third of our population lives.
And so by bringing the hospitalto the patient, if I could put
(03:12):
it that way, we are overcomingthis in metropolitan areas, but
in remote areas, as you canimagine, doing that is fraught
with difficulty.
So that's the huge unmet needwe're focusing on with the
stroke component of ASHRA.
Caroline Duell (03:31):
And obviously with stroke as well any stroke
treatment we know that time isof the essence, so this is
absolutely critical if we'regoing to change health outcomes
for Australians.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (03:43):
Absolutely , Caroline.
And we don't use the mantratime is brain lightly, because
every second counts and everyminute, in fact every minute,
we're losing over 2 billionneurons.
So imagine we don't want to bedoing that.
Caroline Duell (04:02):
Jason, over to you on the cardiovascular side
of things.
Prof Jason Kovacic (04:05):
Yeah, I think the unmet need is enormous
.
I mean, we still know thatcardiovascular disease is the
number one killer in our countryand, interestingly, even the
number two killer, which isactually dementia.
Dementia has cardiovasculardisease as one of its major
drivers and cardiovasculardisease accounts for 25 to 30
percent of dementia.
(04:26):
So it's a huge burden ofdisease in our country and, uh,
you know, our approach tocardiovascular disease still has
a long way to go.
We've got, you know, forexample, national screening
programs around breast cancerand other conditions and, as a
number one killer, we don't yeteven have a national screening
program around cv.
So there's a huge problem Interms, specifically, of ASHRA.
(04:49):
The remit of ASHRA is really todrive the acceleration of
research, translation andresearch impact, both from
high-end and technical devices,but also to the community and
the greater population, and makesure we're serving the needs of
all Australians, includingAboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander people.
(05:09):
So we do have a portfolio ofvery exciting projects that
ASHRA is driving right acrossthe spectrum of cardiovascular
disease.
That spans from heart failureheart attack, digital health
innovations, clinical trials,potential new drug therapies and
more, from heart failure heartattack, digital health
innovations, clinical trials,potential new drug therapies and
more, and these are obviouslytargeting different disease
(05:32):
areas, different stages ofevolution of the translational
journey.
And what's great about ASHRA isit's not necessarily trying to
drive every project to clinicalimplementation.
It's just aiming to help aproject go from one part of a
pipeline along to the next.
So it might be A to B, it mightbe M to N or it might be X to Y
(05:53):
, but it's along that wholejourney of translation.
Caroline Duell (05:56):
And this type of focus has not been done in
Australia before.
This is really a first go atthis.
Prof Jason Kovacic (06:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and full credit to
MTP Connect for, you know,conceiving of this program.
I think it really is an unmetneed and Australia is great at
clinical trials, we're great atinterventions.
But that gap in translation iswhere we really struggle and
that's for a whole range ofreasons.
We don't have the depth, forexample, of really large
(06:25):
industry partners in Australialike they do in the US and
Europe and Australia has CSL,for example but we don't have a
lot of other major industryplayers biopharmaceutical and
tech companies at our doorstep.
So it makes it harder.
And ASHRA, is aimed at pickingup some of that translational
(06:45):
challenge that we have inAustralia and trying to help
across the sector.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (06:50):
I think the term accelerator is perfect
for our program because, as youwere saying, carolyn, the
ability to do this elsewhere, aswe're doing it, is pretty
limited.
So our program in terms ofaccelerating, as Jason was
saying, from A to B or X to Y,depending where you are on the
(07:13):
spectrum, is fairly unique.
We admit that a lot of theseprojects would chug along if
ASHRA didn't exist, but theymight A chug along so slowly
they've just been overtaken andbecome irrelevant.
Or B a huge competitiveadvantage both in Australia and
(07:34):
globally would be lost.
So accelerator places usperfectly as to what we're all
about.
Caroline Duell (07:41):
And for those that don't know, ashrae or the
Australian Stroke and HeartResearch Accelerator.
You're like a massiveAustralian network where anyone
and everyone that's involved inresearch translation,
universities, medical researchinstitutes have all sort of come
together to really put theirefforts behind a number of
(08:03):
different research projects andsome other things like training
programs and things.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (08:07):
Yes, I think Jason will expand on it
even better than I.
But the ability to bring groupstogether, as you've said,
universities, researchinstitutes, clinical trials
organisations, et cetera,clinical trials organisations,
etc.
(08:27):
Etc.
With a common vision andmission in mind, is quite unique
, and collaboration iseverything about getting things
done, isn't it?
Through these mechanisms we'regoing to be able to get much
more done than we would haveever been able to do with
working, say, one or two of us,or even three of us, but having
(08:51):
a dozen, two dozen, with acommon purpose really energises
and turbocharges the wholevision we hold.
Prof Jason Kovacic (09:02):
I'd just add that ASHRA we certainly
don't have every absolute keystakeholder in the sector under
the core investigative group ofASHRA, but what we do have with
ASHRA is a broad representationof all the key elements that are
relevant to the sector andwe've really made it our
business to be as inclusive aspossible across the sector.
(09:26):
So even for the key, for majorstakeholders that aren't
necessarily core partners ofASHRA, we've tried very hard to
bring them in to support theirprojects, to have them engaged
at our meetings and conferencesand so on.
So we have really tried tobring the whole sector together,
to bring the whole sectortogether and indeed cover a
(09:48):
cross-spectrum of researchprojects that speak to the whole
need of the disease burden inour country.
Lauren Kelly (09:52):
So, jason and Geoff, you've both spoken to, I
guess, the breadth of workthat's being undertaken within
ASHRA and you've spoken to thecommercialisation-focused
projects, but also the healthequity work that you're doing
within ASHRA as well, obviouslyall with the aim of having
enormous impact for peopleliving with coronary artery
(10:15):
disease, heart failure, stroke.
So how about we sort of take alittle bit of a deeper dive now
on a number of the projectswithin the ASHA portfolio?
So you've got an excitingpartnership with a commercial
company, bivercore, and thecutting edge research that
they're undertaking with thedevelopment of a total
(10:37):
artificial heart.
So, jason, could you speak tothe partnership that you've
built with Bivercore and thework that you're actually
undertaking with them here inAustralia?
Prof Jason Kovacic (10:45):
Yeah, thanks, lauren.
It is a particularly excitingproject with Bivercore and
particularly timely.
As I think many of thelisteners will be aware, the
first few Bivercores have nowbeen implanted mostly in the US
and they've actually gone verywell and we're thrilled about
that.
In full disclosure, thepartnership between Bivacor and
(11:10):
ASHRA had little, if anything todo with those first initial
implants and the Bivacorevolution of their total
artificial heart has been alifelong journey for their CEO,
daniel Timms, and it's awonderful story how Daniel's
father was suffering from heartfailure and they were
desperately trying.
(11:30):
Daniel was desperately tryingto conceive and develop this
title artificial heart for hisfather Didn't make it.
It was a long, long process todevelop a product like this,
obviously, but he's now gotthere.
I think he was sleeping onsofas and doing all sorts of
things to try and make it workand it's it's a real, you know,
hard luck, dream come true story, uh, for Daniel.
(11:51):
So we've with with the ashrapartnership.
It's really about taking one ofour key physicians here at the
victor chain cardiac researchinstitute in st vincent's
hospital, sydney, which is ChrisHaywood.
Chris has been really leadingthe charge with Bivacor at St
Vincent's, certainly in one ofthe keys in Australia.
Chris has a longstandingrelationship with Bivacor.
(12:14):
Chris's work was really abouttrying to optimize how to
implant the device, trying tooptimize some of the plumbing
and the connections, trying todevelop the training rig to help
surgeons learn to train inplanning the device.
So the partnership and theproject of work between ASHRA
and Bivacor really revolvedaround those aspects of the
(12:38):
tidal artificial heart and thatwork has actually gone really
well and has led to some changesinto developments that I'm sure
will become part of the way asBiVACOR device gets rolled out
to broader implantation at moreand more centres.
Some of the fruits of thispartnership with Astra will come
(12:59):
to play there.
So I think it's really excitingand, as I I said, the device
has been implanted now intohumans.
That was done just a couple ofmonths ago in Texas and it's
just been met with just suchamazing excitement around the
world for the opportunity thatopens up, which is really to
actually provide another optionfor patients suffering from
(13:23):
end-stage heart failure.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (13:33):
It's interesting that that story
which is about an Australian whohas his father was a plumber.
I think Jason was the story.
It just highlights the need foraccelerators like ASHRA and
more to develop all of thesethings onshore rather than being
forced to go offshore wherewe've got better access to
venture capital moneyparticularly.
(13:53):
But what we want to do is toencourage this sort of thing to
be able to be developed entirelyin Australia and then exported,
because then of course there'sgreater benefit for Australians
both in terms of health outcomesearlier and commercial benefits
later.
Lauren Kelly (14:12):
It's incredibly right, jeff, and I guess it's a
really important role thoughthat ASHRA is playing with this
particular project in helpingbetter understand and informing
the clinical workflow for thetotal artificial heart and the
implementation of that throughthose surgical processes.
So it's exciting work to bedone.
Another project maybe over toyou, jeff, that we'd like to
(14:35):
take a closer look at is a worldfirst a remote tele-robotic
endovascular thrombectomytechnology, and maybe you can
break that down a little bitmore for our listeners.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (14:51):
Yes, thanks, lauren.
Saying in our opening comments,one of the huge problems we
have in Australia as a massivecontinent is the lack of access
that rural and remote peoplehave to modern interventions,
and one of the great moderninterventions is thrombectomy
for large vessel occlusion inacute ischemic stroke.
(15:14):
And by that I mean what happensis within minutes or hours of
someone developing a stroke dueto a clot in a large blood
vessel.
If you can get to the rightcentre, you can put a catheter
up through the femoral artery inthe groin and basically drag
the clot out, and the remarkableresults that you see with this
(15:39):
are astonishing.
And people who are denselyhemiplegic and may have a life
ahead of them of severe, verysevere disability basically get
up and walk home.
And in terms of theeffectiveness of this therapy,
the so-called number needed totreat, that is, to benefit one
person, is two to three andthat's in the order of the same,
(16:04):
very similar to, say,penicillin with pneumonia.
So to put it in perspective asto how important this technology
is, now it can't be implementedin remote and rural Australia.
They just aren't the facilitiesor the staff.
So we're overcoming it by atelerobotic approach and we've
been working with a number ofcompanies we're ending up with,
(16:27):
mainly the Remedy Company, whichis CEOed by an Australian who's
got an office here in Melbourneas well and a bit above the
core story.
But we are to be the templatefor the rollout of the entire
program in an exemplary wayacross the country so that we
(16:48):
can demonstrate to the worldthat by having a centre and
remotely controlling the roboticthrombectomy in, say, alice
Springs or Darwin where we'relining things up, others around
the world will see how effectiveit is in this sort of
environment.
So very, very exciting stuff.
Lauren Kelly (17:09):
Yeah, and really impactful.
So when do you anticipate to begetting underway with this work
?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (17:15):
We've been doing work with silicon models
because you must get it rightbefore you do it with the humans
, et cetera and we'vedemonstrated with these silicon
models that it's extremelyeffective and safe and could be
done remotely.
And we'll be doing our first inhuman studies here early next
(17:35):
year.
Lauren Kelly (17:36):
Excellent.
Look forward to hearing aboutthe outcomes of those and you
have other stroke work thatyou're doing within ASHRA.
Would you like to share somemore about the other project
that you're working on?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (17:47):
Yes, another disruptive approach I
mentioned the concept broadconcept is we're in the
pre-hospital area, taking thehospital to the patient, because
, as we're saying, the everysecond and minute counts and the
key step in stroke managementis that you must have an image
(18:08):
to be able to make a diagnosis,because 80% of strokes are due
to the occlusion of a bloodvessel and 20%, totally
conversely, are due to a bleed,a burst blood vessel.
You'd imagine that theapproaches to managing each of
these is just totally different.
So you must have that image,and the problem is the image
(18:29):
that we access are either CTscans or MRI scans, which are in
large hospitals and theyusually weigh two or three tons
and they usually cost two orthree million dollars.
So what we're doing is workingon developing ultra-lightweight
imaging which we can put inmobile stroke ambulances and
also in air ambulances.
(18:50):
And the one we're working on,particularly for ASHRA, is an
ultra-lightweight scan whichwe're developing with the
Volumio company in Wellington,new Zealand, and we're just
about to start our firstclinical trials here, first in
world, here in Melbourne.
Lauren Kelly (19:10):
That is incredibly exciting and so thrilling to
hear that Australia really is onthe cutting edge and at the
forefront of this sort of workbeing undertaken in the world,
with Global Firsts as part ofthis initiative and Hal Rice and
Leticia de Villiers from GoldCoast Re, the telerobotic
(19:40):
initiative, very important.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (19:42):
As you said, it's multidisciplinary and
they're very much part of thiswhole endeavour.
Lauren Kelly (19:49):
And Jason, we've heard a lot about the medical
devices and tech that ASHRA issupporting, but you also have
other types of projects thatASHRA progresses.
You have the Join Us ResearchRegister.
Could you tell us a little bitmore about what that entails?
Prof Jason Kovacic (20:04):
So Join Us is a research register that's
led by Professor Bruce Neil fromthe George Institute for Global
Health, but I can speak to itbecause one of the sites for
Join Us is St Vincent's Hospital, where I'm a senior physician
and I'm actually the site leadfor Join Us at St Vincent's
Hospital.
So, as I've already said, youknow, cardiovascular disease is
(20:25):
one of the main drivers of deathin our country and morbidity
and one of the challenges wehave in Australia is that every
time we want to do a clinicaltrial we spend so much time,
effort and resource inrecruiting the patients into
those clinical trials.
And Join Us is really set up toget people to sign up to
(20:48):
basically to some extent agreeto be contacted and potentially
participate in clinical trials.
And the Join Us project isactually aiming to enrol up to
about 30,000 individuals withcardiovascular disease into the
research register and thatregister will streamline
recruitment processes for futurecardiovascular trials that have
(21:13):
ethics committee approval.
So the Join Us platform isactually already operational.
As I said, I'm the site leadhere at St Vincent's and it's
able to scale to accommodatethis new initiative and
partnership with ASHRA.
So implementation stillinvolves government approvals
and recruiting and traininglocal research staff, but by
having 30,000 people that haveactually joined up to Join join
(21:37):
us.
When we have a clinical trialthat needs to roll out, that
clinical trial can come to joinus and then actually go out to
the 30,000 participants and asksimply who's interested in being
in this trial or that trial orwhatever it might be.
So it should actuallystreamline clinical trial
enrolment, reduce the amount oftime and effort and money that's
(21:59):
actually wasted every time weset up a clinical trial and
ultimately I will enable us todo better quality trials more
efficiently and for less cost.
So I think it's reallyimportant, an important
initiative, and that's why Ipersonally have actually been
supporting Join Us for a coupleof years now and I think ASHRA
was only too enthusiastic to getbehind it and support it.
Lauren Kelly (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely A really critical aspect of
facilitating clinical trials.
Of course, the participants'involvement Join Us.
Is this a national register?
Prof Jason Kovacic (22:32):
Absolutely.
Join Us is a national registerand it's conceived to enhance
the efficiency of recruitingpatients with cardiovascular
disease right across Australia.
With this large sort of readyto invite cohort of people with
cardiovascular disease, toincrease the pace of research.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (22:50):
I think this is an incredibly important
initiative for both heartdisease and stroke.
I was going to ask Jasonwhether there are any similar
cohorts around the world, or arewe one of the first to have an
initiative like this?
Prof Jason Kovacic (23:07):
No, there are actually initiatives like
this in other countries that areall similar, but they're
different in their own way, sothis is something that's going
on internationally.
So it's important for us to dothis to maintain our competitive
edge and make this anattractive destination for
national and internationalclinical research, and I think
(23:30):
that also then has economicbenefits and employment benefits
to the country.
Lauren Kelly (23:35):
And is Join Us open to anybody who would like
to join.
Prof Jason Kovacic (23:39):
Yeah, great question.
So anyone can actually justGoogle Join Us or Bing, whatever
you're using, put in Join Usand it'll come up with the
relevant website.
It's very easy to click throughand sign up and give some basic
details.
Obviously, when you join, theregistry is interested in
(24:00):
knowing age and demographics,sex and a few other things, and
what type of cardiovasculardisease indeed patients may have
that are motivating them tojoin up.
But it's very easy to find andto navigate to the website and
actually join us.
Caroline Duell (24:16):
So you're working with a lot of research
teams all around the country.
Aside from the funding thatASHRA is providing for these
projects, what are some of theother ways that the ASHRA team
are supporting these researchprojects?
Prof Jason Kovacic (24:30):
Maybe I can lead off and say that one of
the key things that ASHRA hasalso done has been education
across the sector of both seniorinvestigators but also up and
coming in, junior investigators.
So one of the you know, one ofthe inherent challenges in this
and it's not unique to Australiais that, you know, researchers
(24:52):
train as researchers, and ifphysician researchers train as
physician researchers, we're notactually trained in as
physician researchers.
We're not actually trained intranslation and how you actually
translate a discovery, and itcan often take, you know, a
decade or more of dedicatedresearch to actually come up
with something that's actuallypatentable or, you know,
(25:14):
clinically implementable, and sopeople are often into their
mid-careers before suddenly theyactually need to translate
something.
So ASHRA has done a lot of workin terms of symposia, of
satellite meetings, of trainingworkshops, of educational
seminars and forums.
We have a dedicated educationand training committee and we've
(25:35):
had multiple, multiple meetings, training workshops, lectures
and so on, just about how do youcommercialize and dealing with
different aspects of that fromlegal aspects and how and when
do you file for patent, how andwhen do you bring in industry
partners and all of thosemultifaceted things that need to
be thought about fortranslation.
(25:56):
So that's just one example ofthe additional things that ASE
is doing in this space.
I think everyone appreciatesthat.
You know, researchers have notbeen trained in translation, but
it's never too late to learn,and each project is different.
I think this is another keylesson that's come out of ASHRA
is that every project has itsnuances and differences and its
(26:18):
own specific challenges, and sowhat might be relevant to one
project is completely irrelevant, and another project needs to
know about something else, andyou know one might need to know
about how do you roll out aclinical trial in a rural and
remote area.
Another one might havechallenges related to legal
contracts and IP.
You know both critical elementsof translation, but obviously
(26:39):
wildly different.
So ASHRA can and does cover offthat full spectrum of relevancy
to translation.
You know both critical elementsof translation, but obviously
wildly different.
So Ashford can and does coveroff that full spectrum of
relevancy to translation.
Caroline Duell (26:46):
I'm going to put this very sort of broad
question to you.
There's been lots of debateabout whether you know
Australia's great at researchbut not so good at translation.
But perhaps we are doing wellwith translation.
But you know there are somegaps.
Can sort of talk ourselves downall the time, but maybe we need
to be talking ourselves up.
What do you think about that?
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (27:08):
perhaps, if I start off, I couldn't agree
more, carolyn.
I think we we do underestimateour abilities as as as a nation.
Uh, getting back to what wewere saying before about the
requirements, and I think we doneed to be out and about a lot
more than we are.
And that pitch session isexactly designed to help
(27:30):
particularly young investigatorsunderstand how to approach
various groups, venturecapitalists particularly, but
also almost any presentation youdo.
It's the old lift conversation,isn't it?
If you haven't persuadedsomeone by the time you get to
the eighth floor, you've got aproblem.
And I think teaching youngpeople the essence of delivery
(27:53):
and getting the message acrossin a very, very brief period of
time is part of that veryconcept of lifting our horizons
as to what we can do asAustralians, and particularly
among our younger colleagues.
Lauren Kelly (28:06):
I agree, and it's not just the commercial side of
things.
You need to understand how tohow to pitch to government, how
to pitch to health funds, how topitch to all the different
buyers and payers of products totruly enable that
implementation.
So it's great that ASHA isdoing that.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (28:25):
It's interesting having, I'm sure,
jason's in the same category.
I edited a stroke journal formany years and I saw during that
period I think it was about 13years I was editor and the
change in the requirements ofhow to present papers, which is
(28:46):
a reflection of the same sort ofneed to promulgate ideas, has
been quite dramatic.
And just say, for example, theabstract has to be so much
crisper than we used to do.
It has to be so much crisperthan we used to do.
It has to be.
To communicate, uh, crisply andefficiently has become a part
of our mantra and we must dothis in in an age where things
(29:09):
are moving faster than everbefore do you have anything to
add up to that jason?
Prof Jason Kovacic (29:13):
no, I'd agree.
I mean, I think the landscape'sconstantly changing.
And look um, research, as Jeffwas saying, publications,
getting you know there's more,there's greater expectations
when publishing, there's greaterexpectations across the whole
research sector and I thinkthat's something that that
includes translation, forexample, research reporting,
(29:35):
data handling, governance.
You know the need for robustdata handling, secure data
handling, and you know, inIndigenous research it's even
more critical.
So I think the landscape isconstantly evolving and I do
think you know, with the manypartners in ASHRA that cover off
(29:56):
different elements of researchand translation, we're well
positioned to actually adviseand be the sort of lead for the
nation on this.
And I think it's important to goback to where we started and to
say that ASHA was conceived notwith every player in the sector
, but with key elements thatcover the whole sector.
So ASHA includes, for example,the George Institute, which
(30:20):
really focuses on large-scaleclinical trials, and it also
includes the Victor Chan CardiacResearch Institute, which is
traditionally more aboutmolecules and mechanisms in the
beginning of the discoverypipeline.
University of Sydney and Monashand the Heart Hospital are also
key partners which fallsomewhere in the middle, but
also the Heart Hospital inVictoria has a huge emphasis on
(30:40):
patient care.
So we do have the full spectrumand I think that also speaks to
the full spectrum of all theelements that are needed for
translation.
Caroline Duell (30:49):
I'm interested to know working with industry,
do you think that that area hasbecome easier, more possible?
Is there more collaborations inthis space than there have been
?
Prof Jason Kovacic (31:01):
I think it's always been appreciated
that industry needs physicianscientists and researchers
working with them.
But I think we are getting moreacutely aware across the sector
of the real need to worktogether because nothing gets
translated in a vacuum and weneed to lean on each other.
(31:22):
So I do think those you knowthe relationships are getting
stronger and I thinkparticularly I mean it's the
whole purpose of ASHRA is tofacilitate those translations
and I think we're very acutelyaware that we need to work with
industry for a whole range ofreasons.
I mean it makes logical senseon every level to facilitate the
(31:44):
research journey andtranslation that we work hand in
glove.
So I think it's always beenthere.
But I think we're doubling downon those relationships and
trying to really streamlinethose processes and pathways and
learn better ways of workingtogether.
Lauren Kelly (31:59):
So, Jeff and Jason , can you talk us through the
vision of what's next for ASHRAon the research and translation
front?
Prof Jason Kovacic (32:08):
I think the MTP Connect has been a
wonderful partner for ASHRA andI believe we've been a wonderful
partner for MTP Connect becausewe're certainly very, very
actively looking to the futureof ASHRA and we sort of call it
ASHRA 2.0 amongst us.
But we've been planning forthat.
We've learned so much along theway and we're very keen for all
(32:31):
of those learnings andeverything we've done and all
the I think the partners we'vemade, the network we've created,
all of that should continue andcontinue strongly.
So we're very excited aboutexactly how our ASHRA 2.0 rolls
out.
We've got, I think, a very goodbroad sense of that, but we
need to just work out thedetails and finalise and action.
Prof Geoff Donnan AO (32:52):
Yes, I agree, jason.
It's all about sustainabilityas the next stage, because I
think the idea behind theseaccelerators, I think, is an
extremely good one, and to seethem sort of wilt and die would
be a travesty.
So I think it behoves us, as weare trying to do, to develop
(33:16):
mechanisms for ongoing activityfor the ASHRA concept, and I
think we'll do that.
Caroline Duell (33:23):
Yeah, so the Research Centre has been funded
through the Medical ResearchFuture Fund, which is an
incredible initiative for healthresearch and translation in
Australia, and MTP Connecteddelivered a number of programs
on behalf of the MRF.
So it's great to, I guess, beat this point now I think it's
three years in ASHRA into thisnew model of accelerating
(33:48):
research into these criticalhealth needs, and we're
definitely going to be watchingto see what comes next for ASHRA
.
Prof Jason Kovacic (33:55):
We look forward to talking with you all
about it.
Caroline Duell (33:57):
It's been a real privilege to talk with you
today about just a couple ofresearch projects, because there
are many more that we haven'thad a chance to sort of dig
deeper on, so we reallyappreciate it.
That was Professor GeoffreyDonnan and Professor Jason
Kovachik from the AustralianStroke and Heart Research
Accelerator.
You've been listening to theMTP Connect podcast.
(34:21):
This podcast is produced on thelands of the Wurundjeri people
here in Narm, melbourne.
Thanks for listening to theshow.
If you love what you heard,share our podcast and follow us
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