High CYA & High Metals: Fred Schweer’s Fix-It Formula

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
Hi, welcome to the Best of the Pool Game Podcast
show.
In this episode, I'll be joinedagain by Fred Squeer of Pool RX.
We're going to talk about thecompatibility and some questions
you may have about Pool RX inthis episode to get more in
depth with the product.
And Pool RX Plus is a great wayto reduce your chemical your
chlorine usage in the pool andeliminate all types of algae in

(02:12):
your pool.
Are you a pool service prolooking to take your business to
the next level?
Join the Pool Guy CoachingProgram.
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From me, I'm a 35-year veteranin the industry.
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to help you succeed.
Learn more at swimmingpoollearning.com.

(02:33):
The Polar X is great as long aseverything's within range, but
there are two factors that youhave to be aware of.
One of them, of course, is anymetals in the water.
And the second one is highcyanaric acid.
So let's start with the metals.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
To your point, you know, normal pool chemistry
ranges are a range, right?
There's a wide range there forair, but there are limits.
And when we talk about normalpool chemistry ranges, we also
want to include metals.
If they're on well water, uh orif they have old copper plumbing
or an old copper heat exchanger,if they've been using other
copper-based algacides, thoseare all sources of metals coming

(03:09):
into your water.
And normal pool chemistry uh issuggests that you know 0.2 parts
per million or less isconsidered normal for copper in
the water.
Um, you know, at 0.2, uhactually 0.1 is is for iron.
So it's a very low amount thatis considered normal range.

(03:32):
Um and the reason why I bringthat up is you want to make sure
your water is in normal range,including the metals.
Um, and and that again is onlyin certain markets uh around the
country, only from certainareas.
Um typically by now, if ifyou're listening to this, you
kind of know where you're atwith that, and and you know that
you should probably test a pooluh for metals um at least once a

(03:54):
year just to see where you'reat, you know, depending on where
you are in the in the country.
And why that's important withPool RX guys is we are adding
the right amount of mineral tothe water based on the gallons.
Our minerals were chelated, sothey're protected, but we can't
protect the existing metal inthe water, right?
So not only are we adding theright amount to the water, and
ours is protected, but ourminerals are also making

(04:16):
chlorine much more active andavailable.
And why that's important, if youhave high metal uh high metal
content in the water, be itcopper, iron, or any other
metal, we don't want to get to asaturation point, right?
We want you that that saturationpoint is possible if you have
elevated metals.
And what that means is if you'resaturated, that that metal in

(04:37):
the water, that non-chelatednon-pool RX metal in the water,
is much more sensitive tooxidation or falling out of
solution.
And so we don't want that tohappen to you.
So that's why we say test first.
Um, and then you know, again,like I mentioned, we're making
chlorine much more active andavailable.
And so that, you know, you put apool RX in, you don't realize
you're you're extremely elevatedin your in your metals.

(04:59):
Um, and you try, you know, youput out you add chlorine to the
pool, and that raises you knowthat that chlorine level.
And next thing you know, youstart seeing, you know, brown
spots from the iron, or or yousee, you know, purple or black
black from the copper.
Um, again, not our that's notour minerals, but it's it's a
reaction from ours taking upspace and ours making more the

(05:19):
making the chlorine more active.
So long story short, and again,this is you know, this is only a
small percentage of folks outthere um that do have metal
problems, but I like to take thetime to go through this so you
understand that there is valuein in testing for metals in your
water, getting those down beforeinstalling pool RX, and then um,

(05:42):
you know, using pool X asdirected.
Um, you're not gonna, once youput pool RX in, like I mentioned
earlier, your chelation of theproduct uh is so strong that
you're not gonna get an accuratereading.
So if you're noticing anelevated copper level, ask for
putting pool RX in.
Don't worry about that.
You're you're safe.
That you're we're allowed tohave a higher level and it's

(06:02):
that's safe because it ischelated.
At the same point, if you noticethat you put a pool RX in and
there is zero copper in thewater, and you're thinking,
shoot, there should be areading.
I just put pool RX in there.
Don't worry about that either.
That like I said, the chelationis so strong that the the
reagent copper test cannot seethrough it accurate accurately.
So you you may get zero reading,you may get an elevated reading.

(06:25):
Either way, uh you're you'resafe.
Uh the fluorex is working, uh,and and you're gonna be fine.
Um, so again, just to reiterate,you know, normal pool chemistry,
which is 90% of the people outthere, super simple.

SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Most pools aren't gonna have metals in them.
And it's easy to test with thecopper test strip.
And some people have the colorQ2X Pro 9.
I recommend this test kit, bythe way, for the pool pros, the
the Lamont color Q2X Pro 9,because it has copper and iron
uh built into the photometer.
Um, but this is not a hugeproblem here in my area, but

(06:58):
there are some areas where metalgets introduced to the water, so
I understand that.
And then uh the Culator producthas been proven scientifically
and in labs and to be what youwould use to reduce the metal in
the water before using Polar X,is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Yeah, so there's a lot of ways to get metals out of
the water.
Culator uh is one of thoseproducts that we definitely
believe in.
Um it's a little polymer bagthat drops in the skimmer, and
as the water flows over it,over, you know, the more water
flow, the faster it works.
But as the water flows over it,it physically uh bonds to all
the trace metals in the waterand it catches them in this

(07:36):
little bag.
It takes, you know, depending onflow, it'll take two to three,
maybe even four weeks, dependingon how much metals in the water
and how much flow you have.
But uh what I like about it isit does pull all the trace metal
out of the water, even the stuffyou're not testing for.
So you might be testing forcopper and iron, and you can
take that out, but it'll alsopull out you know, all the other

(07:56):
metals in the water, uhmanganese, cobalt, you know, and
other metals as well.
So um it does work great.
Um, there's also other um othersolutions out there.
Um, you know, there's some, youknow, these these metal out
products and metal freeze andand um you know super stained
outs.
These are typically uh asequestering agent that is is

(08:19):
holding that that metal insolution and trying to filter
some of it out, making it alittle larger and filtering it
out.
Uh those those can help.
Um the thing with sequesteringagents, again, is they do break
down from time uh and chlorine.
And so you got to keep addingthose.
Um also uh alum flocculationworks works really good.
Um, you know, it's basically aflocculant that coagulates the

(08:42):
metals and drops them to thebottom to be vacuumed out.
So there's a lot of methods totake metal out of the water.
I think the easiest one, um, itmight take a little longer uh is
the CU later, uh, just becauseit's it's kind of self-contained
and it's it's easy to it justtakes a little bit longer, but
it does work really well.
They have the the one part permillion bag that goes in the

(09:02):
skimmer, and they also have thefour part per million um one

(09:25):
that's in the call a gator eggthat can go into the pump basket
that can pull it out faster.
But um again, if you're if youdo have metals, you're gonna
want to test for them first.
Uh and then you're gonna want totake them out with whatever
method you choose, and then youwant to retest before adding the
pull RX.
If you are using the Culator,you're gonna want to uh take

(09:46):
that bag uh out of the skimmeror pump basket, whichever one
you're using.
Uh the celator will pull ourminerals out of the water.
So that's the only one that willpull our minerals out of the
water.
Uh the alum flocculation uh willas well, but typically these
other sequestered, sequesteringagent um liquid uh metal out
type products don't affect usbecause of our telation.

(10:07):
So um, you know, you're you'resafe there.
But um, yeah, sealator isfantastic.
We recommend it.
Uh, easy to use.
Um, just follow theirdirections.

SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
And then the other one, the high cyaneric acid, you
want to touch on that?

SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Yeah, so high cyaneric acid um again is is is
not a problem for pullar eggs.
In fact, we are great in highcyanuric environments uh because
our minerals are killing andpreventing that microalgae.
And in high cyanuricenvironments, the the chlorine
lasts longer, but kills slower.

(10:40):
And so that's where we aretaking the pressure off that
slow acting chlorine byeliminating preventing the
allergy.
And so now that slow actingchlorine is more available to
really clarify the water andkeep it safe.
Uh, so that's the benefit inhigh cyanuric pools, but you
also have to be aware of your umadjusted alkalinity calculation.

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Yeah, and we can touch a little bit on the um
adjusted alkalinity or carbonatealkalinity, because I think it's
important because the range thatyou want your alkalinity is 80
to 120.
I don't think we stated theranges, but 7.2 to 7.8 pH, and
then calcium hardness 200 to400.
So the alkalinity is animportant aspect of pool

(11:21):
chemistry.
A lot of it has to do with thefact that, of course, the
there's the buffer.
If it gets too low, you add somemasses at the pool.
It's gonna drop the pH reallylow in the pool rapidly.
That's one of the one of thereasons why you don't want your
alkalinity at 60 or 50 or 40.
So with this, um, most people,let's just say California, and
we'll use this as a baseline.

(11:42):
Most pools here, 100 parts permillion cyaneric acid is pretty
normal, 150.
It's not unusual to get to apool with 200.
So this is also something thatyou should be doing, regardless
of using pool RX.
It should be something that youdo for the LSI and do for pool
balancing.
Is that correct?
It's not just a pool RX typething.

SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Absolutely, absolutely, David.
Yeah, let's let's talk about,you know, again, pool RX is
great in high cyberic acidenvironments because we are, you
know, killing and preventing themicroalgae, uh, which frees up
the slow acting chlorine fromthe high cyniric.
Um, and that's the benefit ofusing pool RX in in these high
cynac pools, is that the theminerals are are doing the hard

(12:23):
work of killing and preventingthe algae.
And so that slow acting chlorinein the water um caused by the
high cyniric uh is now moreavailable to clarify the water
and keep it safe.
Um and to your point, David,cyanuric acid does affect carbon
and alkalinity.
And there is a uh an adjustedalkalinity calculation, um, and

(12:46):
that's also affected by your pH.
But in as a general rule, um,you know, when when the pH is
7-4, it's it's about one youryour alkalinity reading that
you're getting uh on yourreagent, uh, when your cyanuric
acid is above 100 parts permillion, your alkalinity reading
is one third lower than it'stelling you.

(13:09):
Now, this becomes more and moreimportant the higher and higher
the cyanuric acid gets.
And because what happens is asthe cyanuric acid goes up to
that 150, 175, 200, 250 range,it's affecting your your
alkalinity even more.
And also, it's getting moresaturated in the water.

(13:29):
And so what's happening is thethe water is you know double the
legal amount of cyanuric acid.
Um, and then you're if you'renot adjusting your alkalinity,
the water is out of balance.
So your alkalinity is is down inyou know 20 or 40 range, your pH
is in in you know normal normalrange, you know, below 7.8, but

(13:51):
your cyanuric acid is saturated.
And when that water is out ofbalance, the cyanuric,
whatever's in saturation isgoing to come out of solution.
That cyanuric acid can actuallycome out of solution and it can
catch on to our our copperminerals in the water, and it
turns into copper cyanurate.
And copper cyanurate uh is aform, it comes in a form of a

(14:12):
purple, a kind of a purple dustthat um will stick to scale.
And if it does not go away, youcan try and brush it, you can
try to vacuum it, it will not goaway until you lower your uh
cyanuric acid uh ideally to likeyou know 30 or 40 and get the
and get the water back inbalance.
And then that will actuallydissolve back into solution.

(14:34):
Again, we are great in highcyanuric environments,
fantastic.
And there's a a wide range forair on this.
Uh but as a general rule, whenwe're talking about this, we we
want to make sure with orwithout pool RX, you do want to
keep your your alkalinityreading in normal range.
And um it's a very simple, youknow, in as a general, you know,

(14:55):
as a general calculation, it'sit's one third, meaning to your
point, if if you're it's ifyou're reading 90, it's really
60.
Uh, if but if you're reading 120on alkalinity, uh, you know, and
your cyaneric is high, it's not120, it's one third lower, which
would actually make it 80.
And so you're in good shapethere.
You wouldn't have to adjust.
You know, if if your alkalinityis is reading, you know, 60, uh,

(15:18):
and and and you have to adjustit.
I mean, really, your alkalinityis that 40 uh when your cyanuric
acid is it is super high, andthat's where you're running into
these this copper cyanuratepotential.
For the we've been talking aboutthis for many years, and so a
lot of service guys are aware ofthis, and so we're not getting
as many questions as we as weused to.
Um, and guys are much moreeducated regarding um, you know,

(15:41):
water chemistry and cyanuricacid.
So this is less and less anissue.
But if you're new to pool RX andif you're new to the pool
business, it's just one of thosethings you want to you want to
be aware of, and so you can keepyour water normal range.
And it's very easy to adjustalkalinity up and inexpensive um
when necessary.

SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
And you know, also low alkalinity causes modeling
in pools, especially if they'renewer.
So having such a low alkalinityis bad for a lot of things.
Baking soda is the best way toraise alkalinity without raising
the pH.
I call it baking soda.
I guess in the industry theycall it sodium bicarbonate, but
it's basically just baking soda.

SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Yeah, sodium bicarb, about a pound and a half of that
per 10,000 gallons will raiseyou by 10 points.
You know, we're talking aboutcyanuric acid.
If you're above 100, you know,you're that's when you start um
considering your adjustedalkalinity calculation to keep
that water uh closer to normalrange.
Um and if you can do that, andif you can do that, you know,
high cyanaric, you know, is notan issue for us, you know.

(16:39):
200, 250, you know, that's it'snot an issue.
But again, it goes back to youand your water balance.
I I would I would urge you to toget your customers to to get
some fresh water in there soyou're not having to fight this
water balance issue whencyanuric acid gets so high.
I mean, you're you're justyou're just playing the the you

(17:00):
know roller coaster game there.
But um yeah, I I would urge youguys to to teach your customers
about um you know cyanuric acidand trying to get some fresh
water in these pools, you know,every few years.

SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Well, one good thing about polar X that I like is
that let's say this is what I dowith the pools that are like
around 150 in cyaneric acid.
I'll use the polar X in there,and then I'll of course cut the
tablets down to minimal.
Then I'll use liquid chlorine.
And what I like about the PolarX is since it makes the chlorine
much more effective, you canactually reduce the cyaneric
acid level that season by notadding more cyaneric acid to the

(17:34):
pool with overusing tablets.
And naturally the cyaneric acidlevel is going to you know drop
over the winter and with somerain and some you know some
dilution, adding water in thesummer, things like that.
And so it's a great way actuallyto reduce cyaneric acid in the
pool, in my opinion, withoutdoing a partial full drain.
A lot of customers just don'tlike draining their pool, and

(17:55):
it's kind of a good stop gap.
And I use this method all thetime out there.

SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
Yeah, I I agree.
Uh um to your point, you know,if you're able to use about 40
to 50 percent less chlorine withpool RX, if you're using tabs,
obviously you're you're puttingless tabs in, and the less tabs
you put in, the the slower youryour cyanuric acid level will
rise.
So yeah, you definitely have abenefit of of um prolonging the

(18:20):
water life with pool RX becauseyou know your cyanuric acid
levels uh won't go up as quicklybecause you're not using as much
chlorine.
So definite benefit to not onlythe pool service guy, but to the
homeowner.

SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
And if you're looking for other podcast
episodes, you can of course goto my website,
swingingprolearning.com on thebanner.
There's a podcast icon that'lltake you to over eighteen
hundred episodes.
And if you're interested in thecoaching program atfer, you can
learn more atpoolguycoaching.com.
Thanks for listening to thispodcast.
Have a good rest of your weekand God bless.

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