Staying in the Infinite Game: With award-winning filmmaker, Nicol Ragland

A couple of episodes ago, I launched a new series on the podcast, Vignettes from the Source, to feature some of the unforgettable moments my guests have shared over the years. Continuing the series today then, is a passage of 7 or 8 minutes from my conversation with award winning filmmaker and photographer, Nicol Ragland. Longer term listeners might remember, Nicol was behind the very first Farmer’s Footprint film, among many others. 

Well, four years since she was on the podcast, we met in person for the first time at her home in Oklahoma City last week. Approaching that visit, the family and I listened to the episode I recorded with Nicol those years ago, and I remembered what a brilliant conversationalist she is. I was reminded of her belief in ‘the adjacent possible’. And when I asked my final question of Nicol, ‘what elders have been important for her and how?’, her answer was really something. It had to be the next vignette.

If you’re inspired to listen to more, or revisit the rest of this conversation, tune into episode 80. 

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 16 March 2021.

Title slide: Nicol Ragland (supplied).

See more photos on the original episode web page linked above, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.

Music:

Intro music by Jeremiah Johnson.

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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Episode Transcript

AJ (00:06):
G'day Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
independent, listener-supportedportal into the regenerative era
.
A couple of episodes ago Ilaunched a new series on the
podcast, vignettes from theSource, to feature some of the
unforgettable moments my guestshave shared over the years.
Of all the conversations, ofall the hours recorded over the

(00:27):
250 plus episodes so far.
I'm talking about the passagesthat hit on something profound
and often unexpected.
Sometimes it was a moment oftransformation for them, or
uncanny coincidence or someother pivotal part in their
lives they can't explainSometimes.
All of the above.
Continuing the series.

(00:49):
Today, then, is a passage ofseven or eight minutes from my
conversation with award-winningfilmmaker and photographer
Nicole Ragland.
Longer term listeners mightremember Nicole was behind the
very first Farmer's Footprintfilm, among many others.
Well, four years since she wason the podcast, we met in person
for the first time at her placein Oklahoma City last week and

(01:13):
what a week it's been since.
I'll share more on that soon.
Approaching OKC last week, thefamily and I listened to the
episode I recorded with Nicolethose years ago and I remembered
what a brilliantconversationalist she is.
I was reminded of her belief inthe adjacent possible.
And when I asked my finalquestion of Nicole what elders

(01:34):
have been important for her andhow.
Her answer was really something.
It had to be the next vignette.
If you're inspired to listen tomore or revisit the rest of this
conversation, I'll put a linkto what was episode 80 in the
show notes.
Some photos are on the websitetoo.
I hope you enjoy this one.
Here's, Nicol.
.
..
On your website there is awonderful testimonial

(02:00):
endorsement from Wade Davis who,funnily enough, was just
mentioned in a podcast with thesame couple of farmers I
referred to earlier actuallycited Wade Davis, and we shared
a reflection, and I meanspeaking of powerful
storytellers over generations.
It made me wonder to ask youand I guess we've touched on a

(02:22):
couple in this conversation, butI guess, the presence of elders
or influences in your life andthe value of that and mention
particular names if you want to,if they come to mind but even
just in general, the presence ofthat for you.

Nicol (02:41):
Yeah Well, wade was certainly one of them, obviously
an extraordinary storytellerand influencer, certainly for
Indigenous communities acrossthe globe.
There's one in particular thathas just created an indention
into my heart and he a gentlemancalled Doughty Peterson, who

(03:03):
runs what's called the DarobaFund in Tanzania and he was
working to cut out a lot of landfor the Hidzabi, this group of
hunter-gatherers that I spenttime with and really amazing
experience, and these are peoplethat ultimately, are operating
the same way.
You know, our genetic humanbeings were 50,000 years ago,

(03:25):
right, I mean, like I said, nosense of ownership, no ideas of
please and thank you and theirlanguage, really just operating
from the land, from a place ofrelationship to place that I've
never experienced before.
And I spent a couple monthswith them and I had a handful of
images, maybe 20, 30 images andmy partner on the ground there

(03:48):
connected me to him and I wasback in Arusha and he in Swahili
.
They were speaking in Swahilito each other and I went into
his living room and sat down andwas drinking his cup of coffee
and he had kind of furrowedbrows and really wasn't into the
, the connection at all and Iheard him say to my partner he

(04:11):
said it in Swahili.
He said I don't have a wholelot of time for a Mzungu that
wants to change the world andMzungu is white person, right.

AJ (04:21):
I could have guessed yep.

Nicol (04:22):
Yeah, and I felt, I felt his intonation.
you know his loss to transition,but I really felt the energy of
it.
And Ethan, my partner, told methat after I had a long
conversation with him and in myown experience in spending time
with the Hadabbe, I had thisagain, my own agenda and my own

(04:44):
unconscious biases ofromanticizing this tribe of
hunter-gatherers in East Africa,which so many people do for
First Nations, right, and I hadthis idea of they want to stay
there.
We all have to go back to ourindigenous ways and you know
when, in fact, the truth of thegifts of modernity is that cell

(05:05):
phones and bicycles andhospitals save people, right,
and so I just, I'm constantly, Ithink of him, often in that
idea of saving right and thisidea of, you know, this white
person wanting to change theworld and and being really

(05:25):
confronted with that.
And how, again, how do I, howdo I go into a story and go onto
the ground, listening andultimately collaborating and
adapting ideas that I never knewbefore, right, and then
incorporating that into thiscollective whole called humanity

(05:46):
?
Right, but it was right, but itwas just, it was just a stunning
confrontation and ultimately,he did bring me in and trust me
and know that I didn't want to,you know, dominate or or think
that, you know, even just myphotographs as an individual
photographer was going to make adifference, but rather, how
could I, how could I take part?

(06:06):
You know, photographer wasgoing to make a difference, but
rather, how could I, how could Itake part?
You know, yeah.
It was really humbling, yeah.
And then the tribe themselves,I mean, and just really being
part of a group of people thatso far from my understanding of
relationship to land and theirfood system, was really, really
incredible.
Yeah, in fact, there's anamazing story that happened.

(06:29):
So, as you can imagine,hunter-gatherers were incredible
at archery, right.
I saw five-year-olds that wouldshoot birds out of trees 200
feet away, right.

AJ (06:40):
Wow.

Nicol (06:40):
So they grow up and have this epic skill with bows and
arrows and somebody from theTanzanian government thought
that it would be a good idea totake one of these elders to
South Korea and put him in anarchery contest in South Korea.
And I was listening to thisstory and my friend Ethan was

(07:01):
translating and I was like, ohmy god, like you're coming from,
you hunting and gathering andliving in caves and singing
around fires to South Korea,which is first world and neon
signs and cars.
Yeah, you know everything iswith it.
And so I said what?
I didn't even know what to ask.
I just said what did you, whatdid you see?

(07:21):
And he said he took this likelong pause.
And he said I just didn'tunderstand why everyone had
their own plate of food oh wow,that's outstanding isn't that
amazing.
It was just, and I was like isthere anything else?
And he was just like and thatwas it and it's nothing that you

(07:46):
were thinking about.
Nothing.
Case in point, not at all youknow, yeah, and again just
completely eradicates, like myown, conditioning of first world
as we know it and getting backto just the simplicity of like

(08:09):
why aren't we sharing plates offood right and knowing where
that food came from, right?

AJ (08:15):
So yeah, it was really extraordinary.
It reminds me of in DouglasRushkoff's book Team Human.
He talked about First Nationsconcept of wetiko, which
basically was apparently theword describing the apparent
illness or disease that whitefellas had when they first came
to the shores and were acquiringland and cutting everything

(08:36):
down, and the First Nationsthere viewed it as some kind of
illness.
And it just reminds me of that.
Why weren't they eating fromthe same plate, nicole?
You know what else?
It brings me straight back tothat beautiful line of yours.
What if it's not about solvingbut about maintaining a
connection?

Nicol (08:52):
Yeah, well then we stay in the infinite game, right?
There's that idea of the finiteand infinite game, and that's
again another principle ofregenerative understanding is
it's infinite, it's a constantconnection, it's constant
curiosity, it's constantimagination and allowing
yourself to be open topossibility and ideas and

(09:15):
relationship to place and land.
Thank you.