April 2, 2025 • 43 mins
Welcome to the fourth and final part of this special on-location recording with the 'land whisperer', Patrick MacManaway, in Burlington, Vermont.
ICYMI, the full episode was played more than most in its early days, but given it was a little over two and a half hours in length, I also wanted to offer it in distinct parts, for those of you who prefer to listen to it that way. There have been plenty of takers too, so I'm glad this suited a bunch of you.
We pick it up here where part 3 ended, at the Farmhouse that replaced McDonald's downtown. Then we head back to Patrick's garden, for some of the punchline, you might say - as he shares some of the most impactful stories from his work around the world. These include a look at the changing face of how academia is treating the work, and how the world at large is opening to it also.
And we close with news of his next collaboration with Australian legend in regenerative agriculture, Terry McCosker. Before Patrick, himself, takes us out with a tune.
Title image by Anthony James. For more behind the scenes, and to help keep the show on the road, become a supporting listener by one or more of the options below.
Thanks for listening.
Music:
The RegenNarration playlist (music chosen by my guests).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There almost needs to be a plaque out front, A plaque
yeah, we run out.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
like us being fairly young, we run a lot of chains on
them here.
There was a Starbucks thatclosed.
There was a Five Guys thatdidn't stay very long.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Music to my ears.
This is recording.
Do you mind if I include thisin the podcast?
What's your name?
I'm Kate Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks a lot Kate Of course Inside or outside oh, if
there's outside
Speaker 1 (00:31):
well, patrick, back at home, base in the garden
where we started, with a lovelysoundtrack in the background to
boot.
Firstly, thanks for lunch wow,so I have to share that.
I had a Von Trapp grapefruitbeer wow, amazing.
And and you've told me thestory of how it's the Von Trapp
(00:53):
family from the Sound of Music,now well established in Vermont,
and, yeah, the menu, incredible.
So what a treat to visit thereand such a great symbol.
As we said, now we're back athome.
Let's sign off with a couplemore stories Before we go on to
some of the stories oftransformation you've been
involved in, though just to tieoff on the thread we were
(01:14):
visiting before, on the shiftover your journey and the
academic field.
There's been some shift theretoo.
And the academic field there'sbeen some shift there too.
Indeed, the publication thatcame out of the university of
your friend there, julia Wrightyou were saying that you penned
an essay in, and CharlieMassey's previously missing
(01:37):
chapter, quote unquote from ReidWarbler, the one that didn't
make the cut for being a bit toopushing the envelope, perhaps a
bit too much at the time madeit into this publication too,
out of a university.
Something different's happeningthere too.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yes, and very exciting, I think, and also
somewhat generational.
There are now degrees inspirituality and agriculture and
spirituality and environmentand actually currently having a
restructuring moment now, butplaces like Schumacher College
(02:16):
in the UK, emerson College, Ithink we're seeing more and more
academic interest and offeringsin the area of holism,
including holistic environmentalstudies, which is lovely.
I think often, as you very wellknow, one slightly follows the
(02:38):
money trail in terms ofnarratives and what's presented
uh, in terms of narratives andwhat's presented, and so, for
the most part, mainstreamagricultural academia is funded
by pharmaceutical, agrochemicalcompanies and because they're
(02:59):
funding the research, they'reobviously then promoting their,
their version of farmingalongside of that.
So I think the places wherethis kind of more holistic
research is happening isprobably not the mainstream
agricultural campuses but eithersmaller schools or smaller
(03:22):
departments catering to a vasthungry desire of the upcoming
generation to, I don't want tosay break the mould, but find a
dawning of a new and sustainableway to go.
I also think the climatenarrative has been so
(03:43):
dramatically emphasized andforced onto that generation
coming into their 20s and goingthrough academia now that
there's a real sense of peoplewanting to learn how to do
better and different and there'salso a generation of landowners
(04:05):
, property owners, who arecoming to age either of
inheritance or taking overestablished family businesses,
who have a social, environmentalawareness and consciousness and
are moving into positions wherethey can invest either
substantial acreage or sometimessubstantial funds towards
(04:30):
making that happen.
So I think it's spreadingrapidly.
I know Southern Cross has RegenAg on its menu and so it's
popping up all over the place.
It's popping up all over theplace.
It's popping up all over theplace.
I I think, ultimately, italways has to be grassroots, and
(04:51):
that's where it belongs,because, um, whilst there's a
philosophy that I think you andI are both very immersed in, of
paradigm and thinking, it's inthe application on the farm that
we actually see why it's sobeneficial, why I don't want to
(05:16):
shoot on anybody, but why weshould be doing it, what it's
all about and why did ourancestors make such a fuss about
it.
What's that really about?
There's the perfect segue, then.
Well, yes, so, as you canimagine, many stories, but one,
I think, very salient one that Ido like to share is a story of
(05:43):
plant and place.
Whispering from the Cotswolds ofEngland, which are very
beautiful and, in the Romanperiod, created the sheep with
the finest fleece in all ofEurope.
The Cotswold sheep was the mostsplendid thing and they had a
very fine and delicate pile.
(06:08):
So agricultural countryCotswolds actually a little bit
same story as here in VermontBig time sheep country, water
powered woolen mills and thenpost woolen industry collapsed
there.
However, our story happens onthe edge of a small, iconic
village, at a very wonderfulsmall-scale family dairy farm
(06:33):
and family concern, organicmilking, 20 cows once a day,
once a day and able to make aliving at that scale because
their value add was cheese uh.
They were award-winning cheesemakers and also they had a
retail shop in town, so theywere able to do both value add
(06:56):
and retail.
Uh, and they had a small liverystable on on the side.
So, as with a lot of smallscale farms, uh finding ways to
to integrate and um support thescale of their enterprise and
their cows were their friends.
On one occasion I was there andum the farmer uh was being
(07:21):
harassed by his cheese makingwife, who thought that he ought
to be euthanizing a 23-year-oldcow with one eye and he thought
she was doing just fine and toleave her alone.
So it was that level of you knowscale.
So I was in and out of thatvillage regularly for a decade
(07:43):
and became acquainted with themand no money ever changed hands.
I worked on many occasions andI always came away with a bag
full of cheese, and so that wasour arrangement.
But the story that I'm sharingwith you now unfolds in an
October, which of course in theUK is moving into autumn weather
(08:07):
, and they had two next to eachother fields of alfalfa lucerne,
depending where you live andthese two fields had been
planted same day, same operator,same equipment, same seed, and
had been held back as the lastgreen forage before the cattle
(08:29):
were going to shift on to dryhay and silage for winter.
So they were very critical atthis moment in the forage budget
in this farm and they weredoing holistic grazing and so
moving wires, narrow strips, thecows moved across the first
(08:52):
field of alfalfa and so thecattle are grazed through the
first field over a period ofabout a week, moving gently with
moving wires to create thehigh-density grazing benefits to
the grasslands, and then theymove into the second field and
within two hours of the firststrip of the second field, seven
(09:15):
of their cows are showing signsof bloat, and bloat is
something that farmers pay very,very close attention to when
cattle are on alfalfa or leucinebecause the nutritional density
and high nitrogen content ofthat plant.
If the cow's microbiome doesn'ttotally get on top of it, they
(09:43):
can become swollen to the pointof exploding and dying in that
way because from that centralrumen.
They can't pass gas either outthe front or out the back, so
it's a life-threateningcondition, and when grazers move
cattle onto that plant,therefore, they generally pay
pretty close attention to seethat that's going to go well.
(10:03):
Therefore, they generally paypretty close attention to see
that that's going to go well.
So these clouds were beingclosely watched.
Seven of them showed signs ofbloat, and so the cattle were
pulled off the field and putinto the barn and I was called,
which obviously would be thething to do.
If you've got an indigestiblefield of alfalfa, is call the
(10:24):
land whisperer.
So I was in town, I was therewithin 15, 20 minutes and, um,
what I did literally was to sitdown and have a meditation with
the field, in the field, andwhat's happening here is, um,
very, very simple.
Everybody has their own way ofdoing this.
(10:46):
There's no right or wrong wayto telepathically communicate
with land or plants or animals.
You just you do it in a waythat you find works best for you
.
So for me, sitting quietly,moving into a peaceful space,
and then what happens is wenaturally connect with whatever
we think about, and when wethink about a thing with love
(11:09):
and peacefulness, then theconnection establishes one of
close rapport and creativitypotential in in that space.
So in my imaginal space, mymeditative, if you will,
(11:29):
shamanic consciousness, Iintroduced into the circle of my
thinking, effectively, akitchen table chat of all
interested parties.
So first up, always one's ownpersonal companion, angels and
sort of celestial support team,and then, in this case, the
(11:50):
spirit of the farm and thespirit of this particular field,
the guiding intelligence of thesoil, the gnomes as we would
call them.
The guiding intelligence isbehind and within the plants,
the diva of the plant, and thenthe spirit of the mob of cattle
(12:11):
and also St Bridget, who is theCeltic patroness of domesticated
animals.
So I reckon she could help meout so effectively.
Now I'm, in my mind, in akitchen table situation, having
invited the conscious witnessand dialogue with these
(12:34):
vibrational intelligences of thefarm, and it was a bit like
being in a really noisyout-of-control children's party.
There was chaos, there wasconfusion and what I came to
realize quite quickly was thatthe first field that the cows
(12:54):
had been nutritionally supportedby had full identity and
awareness, conscious awarenessof its role in the agricultural
cycle and that it had beenplanted to be food for cows
which would give milk, whichwould give cheese, which would
(13:14):
nurture people, and then itwould be replanted again in its
successional rotation.
So its giving itself to behighly nutritional cattle fodder
was effectively ensuring itssurvival in that landscape
because it was integrated as anagricultural crop.
The second field didn't havethat messaging hadn't gone
(13:38):
through thought that it was wildand that these were feral
herbivores that had shown up andthat its survival was dependent
on its make-and-go-away bypoisoning them with toxic
substances.
And indeed plants have what arebroadly called primary
(14:00):
metabolites and secondarymetabolites.
And the primary metabolites arewhat they do to do their
ordinary growing thing day today.
And then the secondarymetabolites are a library or a
catalogue of discretionaryphenols, tannins, a range of
chemicals that they can veryrapidly manufacture and
(14:21):
distribute within themselves tomake themselves less attractive
to the aphid or the locust orthe cow or whatever might be the
agent of its consumption.
And we hear from those who workin South Africa of giraffes
(14:45):
having to creep up with quiet,soft footfall, noiselessly from
downwind, creep up on acaciatrees and get in a graze and a
browse, because as soon as thetree realizes that the giraffe
is on it, it instantly fills itsleaves with tannins which
render it disgusting andunpalatable to a giraffe, and it
(15:08):
tells all its neighborhoodfriends.
So then it's breakfast over forgiraffe and it's got to go and
stalk another acacia tree to getsecond breakfast or the other
half of the first one.
I learned from an indigenousethnobotanist here in the US
about a ground cherry inWashington State which is
(15:29):
delicious beyond belief.
But if the plant spots a personcreeping up on it, it almost
instantly turns itself sour anddisgusting, and so you literally
again have to creep up fromdownwind, because it can smell
you apparently, and then grab itquick before it spots that
(15:50):
you're there.
So plants, you and I, ourstress response is run away.
A plant obviously can't runaway, so it has to change its
expressed metabolism it's notits morphology but its
physiology in order to have itssurvival process.
(16:15):
So this was a very clearsituation of this inaction.
The first field had identity,the elementals, the nature,
spirits, totally happy to be onthe farm.
Crop was great.
Second field didn't realize hewas part of farm, didn't really
understand what agriculture wasand had mobilized literally this
(16:36):
lethal cow-killing secondarymetabolic response.
So I had a good old chat withthem about this and everybody
seemed happy once theyunderstood what was going on and
why it was going on, and withina very short period of time,
(16:58):
much less time than it takes totell the story, because telepath
is happening at the speed ofthought.
So you you know, from start tofinish this might actually only
have taken 90 seconds, but itdoesn't matter how long it takes
, it matters that you take thetime to do it.
So chat with the field.
By time everybody'd had tea andcake.
(17:19):
A second round, uh, the kitchentable, everybody was song.
We got thumbs up and smiles,and so I left them to it.
We waited 12 hours.
We put the cows back into thefield and, without any problem
at all, they grazed off thewhole of the rest of the field
in strips over the subsequent 10days and were well nourished
(17:40):
and happy and everything wasgood.
So three steps back just to lookat that story.
Um, first of all, I didn'tspeak or move this.
This was an internal, imaginal,meditational, shamanic
(18:01):
communication that I was havingin in situ.
I've also done it long distancewith maps and photographs, but
in this case I was on site.
So that's what I was doing wasI was having a good, hard think.
However, what's clear from whathappened then is the plants
understood me.
Even though it was an internalthought, they telepathically
(18:24):
received the message.
Secondly, they understood itand had capacity to change
themselves.
And thirdly, they changedthemselves at my request, for
our convenience, to support thepeople living in that landscape.
And those three things puttogether.
(18:45):
Frankly, the first few times ithappened to me it was so
mind-blowing I really prettymuch went to bed for three days
until the world reorganiseditself around that, because I
knew this was possible.
It was one of those.
This was one of the first timesthat people had told me stories,
people I'd trained with, butthis was.
I knew that I'd had a chat inmy head and this whole prop had
(19:06):
changed.
So it leaves me in no doubtthat nature can hear our
thoughts.
Nature can understand ustelepathically, we can
communicate and, as we weresaying earlier in the podcast,
they are happy to support us.
You didn't need to do that.
(19:27):
So in this telepathiccommunication, clearly the
plants heard me, understood me,had capacity to change and chose
to do so, and so it reallyimpressed me of how we live, by
their grace and generosity, andif they hadn't wanted people on
(19:49):
the planet, they could have keptthe thing lethal, and then all
the cows would have died and thepeople would have perished and,
you know, the flood would havecome again as it were.
Not my experience.
Clear communication, massivecooperation and support Three
steps back again from that,though.
(20:09):
My hair is grey enough now thatI remember growing up at a time
when people did not have foodallergies.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I remember that .
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well now it's so common that it's all over every
restaurant.
Waiters here in the Statesautomatically and I think
legally have to ask if you haveany food allergies before they
serve you anything.
And schools with peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Don't even have it near the campus.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Where did this come from.
So we can argue well, it's comefrom pesticides, fertilizers,
things in the air, things in thewater, residues, various
degrees.
But what I've realized by thework that I do is central to
(21:00):
this.
It's at the plant's discretionwhether it's edible and
nutritional or not, literally.
And everybody always commentson how the food tastes better
from your own garden than itever can in the supermarket.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And joining the dots up.
That's where the personal touchcomes.
That's where people are incommunion with their plants.
They love their plants.
There's a personal cooperation.
The plant knows who its personis.
Once we scale agriculture to apoint where the farmer is no
longer literally talking totheir plants and their animals
(21:42):
and their land, as example inthis case, the land and the
plants don't know what'shappening and they mount a
stress response.
So I believe I've come tobelieve that unwittingly we're
actually growing toxic foodbecause we're not talking to the
plants.
(22:03):
And once you get your headaround this, it's a bit of a big
picture view.
If I were to introduce a toxininto the food system, I would be
considered criminally negligentand legally accountable.
I'm not saying that we shouldsue our farmers for criminal
(22:27):
negligence in producing toxicfood, because they don't know
that they're doing that and theydon't know any different.
But I think it's worth a bit ofa three steps back.
Stark, that crop was going tokill the cows and we chatted to
it and then it was highlynutritious.
And just to apply that to ourfood production systems, it's
(22:50):
not just for the woolly-hattedhippies to go and hug trees,
it's actually a survivalnecessity If we're going to eat
food, you have to talk to it inorder that it knows who you are,
what your intentions are and,assuming you get its agreement,
then you can safely go ahead andeat it.
So I think you know that's abit of an illustrative story
(23:18):
that pulls a lot of threadstogether.
That's what we used to callhusbandry.
Now it's agricultural science.
Husbandry is a marriage ofpeople and place.
It's intimate, it's intuitive,it's emotional, it's
communicative.
So, six and a half thousandyears of sustainable husbandry,
a hundred years ofnon-sustainable agricultural
(23:40):
science, it's the communicationand the heart-feltness, it's
literally the love that's in themiddle.
And I know from having workedfor hundreds of farmers that
they deeply, deeply, deeply loveand care about their places and
their crops and their animals.
And they would be horrified tothink that they're not doing
(24:05):
best practice and horrified tothink that they're not doing a
good job and horrified to thinkthat the food going off farm was
poisonous.
And so I think that's a veryexciting thought that, uh, as
I've been doing, um, as ishappening more and more, this is
(24:25):
very simple re-education.
And it's not even re-education,it's, it's really a remembering
.
This is how our grandparentsand great-grandparents, and six
and a half thousand years ofgenerations knew how to relate
to land by observation andpatient practice in the same
place, for you know, 20 and 30generations at a time.
(24:46):
Talk about epigenetics yeah,well, thousands.
In the case of australia,thousands so that uh story is, I
think, of particular interest.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yes, and speaking of remembering the Navajo Denae man
I was speaking with, Imentioned earlier he and his
wife in the podcast with themrecently and his wife being from
Pennsylvania Mennonite family,she said she came to a point
where I think she was a bitfrustrated with something and
(25:20):
and james said to her you needto speak to the plants more.
And she sort of took that atface value.
But then one day she really didand she heard.
She heard it back, you know, um, she describes it well on the,
on the podcast, you know, asthis would be outsider,
(25:43):
culturally speaking,conceptualizing herself as such.
Yeah, not inherently, you know,consistent with what you're
saying, not inherently anoutsider at all, but culturally
coming in and then applying whathe had suggested was what was
missing and it all changed.
And they're not these aren'tthe only instances I've heard
(26:07):
either and in very, verypragmatic ways and contexts.
And now, yeah, we are readingand learning so much more about
this, even in the popular domain, through books and other
research that's coming out atthe moment.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So it just seemed to be an opening I think it is an
opening, um, and it's a.
It's a pretty simple messageand, once you got it, um, it's
one that you know is informative.
I'd also share anotherplant-based story, this one from
new south wales, uh, on aproperty that the farmers
(26:47):
described it as rolls royceproperty with no spark plugs and
they couldn't tell why itwasn't going well, because it
should do all the yeah analysesof soil and minerals were really
rather good.
Um, it was in a relatively uhbenign, uh part of of new south
(27:11):
wales and, uh, they'd been doinghigh density grazing, crop
rotations, biodynamics andradionics, all on the farm, but
they just couldn't get it toperform in the way that they
knew that it really should beable to.
So they invited me to go andlook and what was immediately
(27:32):
perceptible to me, lookingthrough my lens, was that the
land was terribly, terribly,terribly subdued and held down,
held back, overcast by residualenergy from an aboriginal
massacre that was well known tohave occurred there during the
(27:53):
period of colonization.
And when I looked more deeplyinto it, through intuition,
psychic scanning, dowsing, itbecame clear that we had
earthbound souls, ghosts onproperty left over from.
We had curses on property leftover from the residual angst and
(28:21):
emotion of events leading up toand the displacement.
And then, a little bit like thealfalfa crop as described, the
land did not have the concept ofmonoculture agriculture at all.
It still thought that it was awilderness and that its job was
(28:41):
to support kangaroos and possums.
So in that circumstance, quitea lot of the work was first just
a healing of the spirit ofplace, ensuring that the ghosts
were properly attended to andsuccessfully repatriated to
friends and family in theheavenly realm.
(29:02):
The intense emotional residuesresolved and blessed and cleared
up.
And then, same as with thealfalfa, just a good old chat
with the land to explainagriculture as we were bringing
it and the plants and animalsthat were being brought to the
(29:26):
farm and that we were asking tobe supported.
And again there was an ahamoment where the land got it and
said yes and thanks for theclarity and we'll do everything
we can.
There was an aha moment wherethe land got it and said yes and
thanks for the clarity andwe'll do everything we can.
And two weeks later theyplanted a sorghum crop and
(29:48):
previously their best yield hadbeen 1.6 tonnes per acre.
Their average had been 1 tonneper acre.
This one came in at 2.3 tonnesper acre, which was exciting,
and it's not that it made it gofaster, it was that.
That's what that landscapeshould always been providing, so
it was bringing it to itsnormal, healthy state.
(30:12):
But even more exciting, aj, thanthe, than the crop yield, was
that one of the landscapeintelligence responses, once it
fully understood what we were upto and that sorghum, what
sorghum was and that sorghum wasour ask.
The landscape introduced intothe crop so many spiders and
(30:33):
wasps that they totally tookcare of the Heliothus grub,
which is the normal predator onsorghum, and they were literally
the only one of ten adjacentfarmers all being served by the
same agronomist not to have tospray for pesticides.
So not only did we get thisland up to its natural, healthy
(30:55):
optimum of production, but wemanaged to integrate the
intelligence so that it'scompletely self-managing.
Um, and that for me again is,if that level of communication,
cooperation is present, thenthat puts us into a truly
sustainable and joyousrelationship.
(31:16):
And you know that the land didthat for you because you asked
it to do it, and so there's nothinking of it as a third-party,
abstract, inanimate thing.
If it's doing that after Iasked it to do it, and it hasn't
done it for the last 20 years,and it's not doing it on anybody
(31:37):
else's place.
This is a direct response topersonal communications and just
possibly the thinnest edge ofthe wedge of what's possible.
I'd also just share a couplestories, because we can
(31:57):
communicate with plants, we cancommunicate with animals.
Terry's got a lovely story ofwolf whispering in Montana that
he may have shared with you.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
He didn't share that one on the podcast actually.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
He was able to communicate with three wolf pack
alphas and negotiate that ifthe wolves had free access to
all water, including the waterin the cattle troughs, um, and
not be shot at that they wouldleave the calves alone.
And uh, indeed, as far as Iknow, seven, eight years later
(32:31):
that's that's still holding up.
In my recent trips to australiaI had the pleasure of
connecting with a wonderfullytelepathic Queensland cattle
farmer who was losing up to 80calves per year to dingo strikes
8-0-80 calves which wasdevastating and stressful and
(32:52):
also economically verychallenging.
And he described a story outone day in the ute and had his
rifle and saw an alpha male andshot it dead and then really
felt like something had tochange because this wasn't good
for anybody.
So he was naturallypsychopathic from birth, had
rather dismissed it andmarginalized it, but he switched
(33:12):
it on and he checked in withthe alpha dingoes and came to an
arrangement that he would nevershoot them again and let them
roam the landscape as theywished, as long as they left his
calves alone.
And this held up for threeyears.
And then, uh, one calf wasbitten not killed but bitten and
he checked back in with thedingoes to see what was going on
(33:34):
and they said, uh, we know thathappened, it wasn't us, it was
a rogue dog.
Came in from the north, wees,to see what was going on, and
they said, uh, we know thathappened, it wasn't us, it was a
rogue dog.
Came in from the north, we'vechased it out of territory,
we're still good, so this is allgood.
And then a few months later thedingoes come and knock on his
door, the door of his mind, andthey want to know whether he's
still got his gun.
And he says, yes, I put it incupboard, but I still got it.
(33:55):
And they say well, there's acat in the territory and we
can't catch it.
It keeps running up a tree.
We're wondering if you'd comeand shoot it for us.
He did go out three timeslooking for said cat, didn't
find it, and then the dingoescame back to him again and said
we've caught up to it, it's alltaken care of of.
(34:15):
You can put your gun away.
So I've come across many peoplewho've got as far as a
negotiation mutual with thedingoes, but this was the first
time that the dingoes came backand asked for a mafia hit, a
competitive predator.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But so I'm equally curious, then, if this is in us
all, how would we people we goabout tapping back in
remembering, I mean, aside fromcalling you in, right, or maybe
(34:59):
that is the thing, well, I'malready busy and it's a large
world.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So I run workshops and do classes and podcasts like
your own.
I think this is truly the mostnatural of all things that we
can do.
It's almost not a learned thingat all, aj, it's just we have a
natural connection toeverything.
(35:24):
We have a specific connectionto whatever we hold in mind and
in heart.
So, whether you need to talk toyour car or your partner or
your dog or your cow or yourlawn or your cherry trees, the
process is very simple.
We just get into a peacefulspace and lovingly hold the
(35:52):
object of our connectiveintention in mind until we feel
loving rapport established withit, and then at that point we
have these internalconversations and we're talking
to things that don't necessarilyhave a physical voice.
So the return communication isby reciprocal telepathy, where
(36:17):
the cow or the plant or theriver or the weather is putting
thoughts and images into yourmind, and so we observe what
comes into our mind.
Quite literally, we observe theidea that arises, we observe
the thought, the vision, theinstinct, the feeling, and we
can go backwards and forwards,like that of asking for an idea
(36:41):
and getting one back, or askingwhat they think about bringing
the sheep back in or plantingcarrots next, and then wait and
see whether that feels right,whether we get different
guidance, whether we get ago-ahead.
So it's quite easy to projectour thoughts.
(37:02):
I find that perhaps theunfamiliar in the art is the
deep listening of then, afterhaving asked, just to sit with
the question and allow theanswer to emerge.
And sometimes it's right there.
Sometimes it comes in a dreamthe next night.
Sometimes it shows up randomlyin a comes in a dream the next
night.
Sometimes it shows up randomlyin a conversation with a friend
(37:23):
the following day.
The universe has a myriad ofways of getting information to
us and getting our intentionattention.
Um, once we've made it knownthat there's, there's guidance
or information that we need, soI truly think it's when it works
.
It's effortless, it's one ofthose, and you're relaxing back
(37:45):
into your most natural state ofbeing a part of the family of
things and having conversationsarising that's a very.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
These are very consistent threads that come
through time and time again overthe seven years of doing this
podcast and right through toeven elite level sport, music,
the flow state stuff.
It's very interesting the waysthat I think we're talking to
the same stuff.
We've mentioned Terry a littlebit.
You guys are still workingtogether, but a bit of a
(38:20):
different form, as I understandit.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Terry, avant-garde pioneer, iconic saviour of
Australian agriculture.
He had started a journey ofexploration of dowsing and land
whispering before I met him.
I was fortunate enough to beinvited to the 20th annual
(38:45):
conference where, for the firsttime, rcs really put land
whispering out on its main stage, and there was so much interest
that we then developed aprogram of three-day Level 1,
three-day level two trainingsfor farmers, a two-day graduate
(39:07):
circle where people working withit could come back and skill
share and support each other,and RCS hosted that until 2023,
at which point it made the mostsense to allow the Quantum Leap
(39:29):
program, which we call this, tobe hosted by its own independent
body so that it could bedeveloped and extended beyond
RCS's capacity to do that.
So we feel very, very, veryintegrated and connected with
(39:49):
RCS and really part of theirfamily, of the menu, of
everything that a farmer couldpossibly need to know, from
grazing to profit to low-, lowstress, stock handling and fairy
whispering.
So we were inside of the RCSbody for 13, 14 years and now
(40:14):
the same characters have createdQuantum Leet, subtle Energy,
which is a non-profit.
That's allowing us to expandour range of offerings as well
as the number of workshops, butit's very much a continuous
thread and there was amarvellous moment at the
(40:34):
conference when Terry and I werestill getting to know each
other and for some reason orother we both pulled our
pendulums out of our pockets andfound that we both had nuts on
the ends of strings.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
So Terry and I bonded by showing each other our nuts
in public in a dowsing sense,and never, never, looked back
all right, I look forward to toseeing that come to fruition.
Beautiful, very excited.
All right, patrick, I thinkwe've run the gamut and come
(41:09):
through the large part of theday and it's probably even time
to start getting dinner ready.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
But you know I end with talking about a piece of
music, what comes to mind foryou, I think, think, probably
particularly in context,vivaldi's Four Seasons, I think,
as a piece of music that reallycaptures the spirit and essence
(41:33):
of the many moods of alandscape, from its wild
ferocity to its gentlepeacefulness.
It's a lovely piece of musicand it was a great favourite as
a child, and so I think I'd gofor.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Vivaldi, that's beautiful.
When I was 18, I think, and onStruggle Street, and you know a
long lover of rock and roll, butat 18, Vivaldi was the first
classical music I really gotinto.
Yeah, and Four Seasons was it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's so accessible.
It's so accessible.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
And so well, classic, it doesn't date.
No, it doesn't.
It's beautiful, wonderfulPatrick.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Thanks a lot, mate, it's great to be with you
Absolute pleasure, lovely tomeet you, lovely to have you
here in Vermont and thank you so, so much for your interest in
the work and being willing toshare it with your audience.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The music you're hearing is by Patrick McManoway.
When I learned he played thepenny whistle, I asked if he'd
play it for us.
He said he was out of breathand practice but, blessedly,
wasn't too proud to let it fly.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
© transcript Emily Beynon.
There almost needs to be a plaque out front, A plaque
yeah, we run out.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
like us being fairly young, we run a lot of chains on
them here.
There was a Starbucks thatclosed.
There was a Five Guys thatdidn't stay very long.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Music to my ears.
This is recording.
Do you mind if I include thisin the podcast?
What's your name?
I'm Kate Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks a lot Kate Of course Inside or outside oh, if
there's outside
Speaker 1 (00:31):
well, patrick, back at home, base in the garden
where we started, with a lovelysoundtrack in the background to
boot.
Firstly, thanks for lunch wow,so I have to share that.
I had a Von Trapp grapefruitbeer wow, amazing.
And and you've told me thestory of how it's the Von Trapp
(00:53):
family from the Sound of Music,now well established in Vermont,
and, yeah, the menu, incredible.
So what a treat to visit thereand such a great symbol.
As we said, now we're back athome.
Let's sign off with a couplemore stories Before we go on to
some of the stories oftransformation you've been
involved in, though just to tieoff on the thread we were
(01:14):
visiting before, on the shiftover your journey and the
academic field.
There's been some shift theretoo.
And the academic field there'sbeen some shift there too.
Indeed, the publication thatcame out of the university of
your friend there, julia Wrightyou were saying that you penned
an essay in, and CharlieMassey's previously missing
(01:37):
chapter, quote unquote from ReidWarbler, the one that didn't
make the cut for being a bit toopushing the envelope, perhaps a
bit too much at the time madeit into this publication too,
out of a university.
Something different's happeningthere too.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yes, and very exciting, I think, and also
somewhat generational.
There are now degrees inspirituality and agriculture and
spirituality and environmentand actually currently having a
restructuring moment now, butplaces like Schumacher College
(02:16):
in the UK, emerson College, Ithink we're seeing more and more
academic interest and offeringsin the area of holism,
including holistic environmentalstudies, which is lovely.
I think often, as you very wellknow, one slightly follows the
(02:38):
money trail in terms ofnarratives and what's presented
uh, in terms of narratives andwhat's presented, and so, for
the most part, mainstreamagricultural academia is funded
by pharmaceutical, agrochemicalcompanies and because they're
(02:59):
funding the research, they'reobviously then promoting their,
their version of farmingalongside of that.
So I think the places wherethis kind of more holistic
research is happening isprobably not the mainstream
agricultural campuses but eithersmaller schools or smaller
(03:22):
departments catering to a vasthungry desire of the upcoming
generation to, I don't want tosay break the mould, but find a
dawning of a new and sustainableway to go.
I also think the climatenarrative has been so
(03:43):
dramatically emphasized andforced onto that generation
coming into their 20s and goingthrough academia now that
there's a real sense of peoplewanting to learn how to do
better and different and there'salso a generation of landowners
(04:05):
, property owners, who arecoming to age either of
inheritance or taking overestablished family businesses,
who have a social, environmentalawareness and consciousness and
are moving into positions wherethey can invest either
substantial acreage or sometimessubstantial funds towards
(04:30):
making that happen.
So I think it's spreadingrapidly.
I know Southern Cross has RegenAg on its menu and so it's
popping up all over the place.
It's popping up all over theplace.
It's popping up all over theplace.
I I think, ultimately, italways has to be grassroots, and
(04:51):
that's where it belongs,because, um, whilst there's a
philosophy that I think you andI are both very immersed in, of
paradigm and thinking, it's inthe application on the farm that
we actually see why it's sobeneficial, why I don't want to
(05:16):
shoot on anybody, but why weshould be doing it, what it's
all about and why did ourancestors make such a fuss about
it.
What's that really about?
There's the perfect segue, then.
Well, yes, so, as you canimagine, many stories, but one,
I think, very salient one that Ido like to share is a story of
(05:43):
plant and place.
Whispering from the Cotswolds ofEngland, which are very
beautiful and, in the Romanperiod, created the sheep with
the finest fleece in all ofEurope.
The Cotswold sheep was the mostsplendid thing and they had a
very fine and delicate pile.
(06:08):
So agricultural countryCotswolds actually a little bit
same story as here in VermontBig time sheep country, water
powered woolen mills and thenpost woolen industry collapsed
there.
However, our story happens onthe edge of a small, iconic
village, at a very wonderfulsmall-scale family dairy farm
(06:33):
and family concern, organicmilking, 20 cows once a day,
once a day and able to make aliving at that scale because
their value add was cheese uh.
They were award-winning cheesemakers and also they had a
retail shop in town, so theywere able to do both value add
(06:56):
and retail.
Uh, and they had a small liverystable on on the side.
So, as with a lot of smallscale farms, uh finding ways to
to integrate and um support thescale of their enterprise and
their cows were their friends.
On one occasion I was there andum the farmer uh was being
(07:21):
harassed by his cheese makingwife, who thought that he ought
to be euthanizing a 23-year-oldcow with one eye and he thought
she was doing just fine and toleave her alone.
So it was that level of you knowscale.
So I was in and out of thatvillage regularly for a decade
(07:43):
and became acquainted with themand no money ever changed hands.
I worked on many occasions andI always came away with a bag
full of cheese, and so that wasour arrangement.
But the story that I'm sharingwith you now unfolds in an
October, which of course in theUK is moving into autumn weather
(08:07):
, and they had two next to eachother fields of alfalfa lucerne,
depending where you live andthese two fields had been
planted same day, same operator,same equipment, same seed, and
had been held back as the lastgreen forage before the cattle
(08:29):
were going to shift on to dryhay and silage for winter.
So they were very critical atthis moment in the forage budget
in this farm and they weredoing holistic grazing and so
moving wires, narrow strips, thecows moved across the first
(08:52):
field of alfalfa and so thecattle are grazed through the
first field over a period ofabout a week, moving gently with
moving wires to create thehigh-density grazing benefits to
the grasslands, and then theymove into the second field and
within two hours of the firststrip of the second field, seven
(09:15):
of their cows are showing signsof bloat, and bloat is
something that farmers pay very,very close attention to when
cattle are on alfalfa or leucinebecause the nutritional density
and high nitrogen content ofthat plant.
If the cow's microbiome doesn'ttotally get on top of it, they
(09:43):
can become swollen to the pointof exploding and dying in that
way because from that centralrumen.
They can't pass gas either outthe front or out the back, so
it's a life-threateningcondition, and when grazers move
cattle onto that plant,therefore, they generally pay
pretty close attention to seethat that's going to go well.
(10:03):
Therefore, they generally paypretty close attention to see
that that's going to go well.
So these clouds were beingclosely watched.
Seven of them showed signs ofbloat, and so the cattle were
pulled off the field and putinto the barn and I was called,
which obviously would be thething to do.
If you've got an indigestiblefield of alfalfa, is call the
(10:24):
land whisperer.
So I was in town, I was therewithin 15, 20 minutes and, um,
what I did literally was to sitdown and have a meditation with
the field, in the field, andwhat's happening here is, um,
very, very simple.
Everybody has their own way ofdoing this.
(10:46):
There's no right or wrong wayto telepathically communicate
with land or plants or animals.
You just you do it in a waythat you find works best for you
.
So for me, sitting quietly,moving into a peaceful space,
and then what happens is wenaturally connect with whatever
we think about, and when wethink about a thing with love
(11:09):
and peacefulness, then theconnection establishes one of
close rapport and creativitypotential in in that space.
So in my imaginal space, mymeditative, if you will,
(11:29):
shamanic consciousness, Iintroduced into the circle of my
thinking, effectively, akitchen table chat of all
interested parties.
So first up, always one's ownpersonal companion, angels and
sort of celestial support team,and then, in this case, the
(11:50):
spirit of the farm and thespirit of this particular field,
the guiding intelligence of thesoil, the gnomes as we would
call them.
The guiding intelligence isbehind and within the plants,
the diva of the plant, and thenthe spirit of the mob of cattle
(12:11):
and also St Bridget, who is theCeltic patroness of domesticated
animals.
So I reckon she could help meout so effectively.
Now I'm, in my mind, in akitchen table situation, having
invited the conscious witnessand dialogue with these
(12:34):
vibrational intelligences of thefarm, and it was a bit like
being in a really noisyout-of-control children's party.
There was chaos, there wasconfusion and what I came to
realize quite quickly was thatthe first field that the cows
(12:54):
had been nutritionally supportedby had full identity and
awareness, conscious awarenessof its role in the agricultural
cycle and that it had beenplanted to be food for cows
which would give milk, whichwould give cheese, which would
(13:14):
nurture people, and then itwould be replanted again in its
successional rotation.
So its giving itself to behighly nutritional cattle fodder
was effectively ensuring itssurvival in that landscape
because it was integrated as anagricultural crop.
The second field didn't havethat messaging hadn't gone
(13:38):
through thought that it was wildand that these were feral
herbivores that had shown up andthat its survival was dependent
on its make-and-go-away bypoisoning them with toxic
substances.
And indeed plants have what arebroadly called primary
(14:00):
metabolites and secondarymetabolites.
And the primary metabolites arewhat they do to do their
ordinary growing thing day today.
And then the secondarymetabolites are a library or a
catalogue of discretionaryphenols, tannins, a range of
chemicals that they can veryrapidly manufacture and
(14:21):
distribute within themselves tomake themselves less attractive
to the aphid or the locust orthe cow or whatever might be the
agent of its consumption.
And we hear from those who workin South Africa of giraffes
(14:45):
having to creep up with quiet,soft footfall, noiselessly from
downwind, creep up on acaciatrees and get in a graze and a
browse, because as soon as thetree realizes that the giraffe
is on it, it instantly fills itsleaves with tannins which
render it disgusting andunpalatable to a giraffe, and it
(15:08):
tells all its neighborhoodfriends.
So then it's breakfast over forgiraffe and it's got to go and
stalk another acacia tree to getsecond breakfast or the other
half of the first one.
I learned from an indigenousethnobotanist here in the US
about a ground cherry inWashington State which is
(15:29):
delicious beyond belief.
But if the plant spots a personcreeping up on it, it almost
instantly turns itself sour anddisgusting, and so you literally
again have to creep up fromdownwind, because it can smell
you apparently, and then grab itquick before it spots that
(15:50):
you're there.
So plants, you and I, ourstress response is run away.
A plant obviously can't runaway, so it has to change its
expressed metabolism it's notits morphology but its
physiology in order to have itssurvival process.
(16:15):
So this was a very clearsituation of this inaction.
The first field had identity,the elementals, the nature,
spirits, totally happy to be onthe farm.
Crop was great.
Second field didn't realize hewas part of farm, didn't really
understand what agriculture wasand had mobilized literally this
(16:36):
lethal cow-killing secondarymetabolic response.
So I had a good old chat withthem about this and everybody
seemed happy once theyunderstood what was going on and
why it was going on, and withina very short period of time,
(16:58):
much less time than it takes totell the story, because telepath
is happening at the speed ofthought.
So you you know, from start tofinish this might actually only
have taken 90 seconds, but itdoesn't matter how long it takes
, it matters that you take thetime to do it.
So chat with the field.
By time everybody'd had tea andcake.
(17:19):
A second round, uh, the kitchentable, everybody was song.
We got thumbs up and smiles,and so I left them to it.
We waited 12 hours.
We put the cows back into thefield and, without any problem
at all, they grazed off thewhole of the rest of the field
in strips over the subsequent 10days and were well nourished
(17:40):
and happy and everything wasgood.
So three steps back just to lookat that story.
Um, first of all, I didn'tspeak or move this.
This was an internal, imaginal,meditational, shamanic
(18:01):
communication that I was havingin in situ.
I've also done it long distancewith maps and photographs, but
in this case I was on site.
So that's what I was doing wasI was having a good, hard think.
However, what's clear from whathappened then is the plants
understood me.
Even though it was an internalthought, they telepathically
(18:24):
received the message.
Secondly, they understood itand had capacity to change
themselves.
And thirdly, they changedthemselves at my request, for
our convenience, to support thepeople living in that landscape.
And those three things puttogether.
(18:45):
Frankly, the first few times ithappened to me it was so
mind-blowing I really prettymuch went to bed for three days
until the world reorganiseditself around that, because I
knew this was possible.
It was one of those.
This was one of the first timesthat people had told me stories,
people I'd trained with, butthis was.
I knew that I'd had a chat inmy head and this whole prop had
(19:06):
changed.
So it leaves me in no doubtthat nature can hear our
thoughts.
Nature can understand ustelepathically, we can
communicate and, as we weresaying earlier in the podcast,
they are happy to support us.
You didn't need to do that.
(19:27):
So in this telepathiccommunication, clearly the
plants heard me, understood me,had capacity to change and chose
to do so, and so it reallyimpressed me of how we live, by
their grace and generosity, andif they hadn't wanted people on
(19:49):
the planet, they could have keptthe thing lethal, and then all
the cows would have died and thepeople would have perished and,
you know, the flood would havecome again as it were.
Not my experience.
Clear communication, massivecooperation and support Three
steps back again from that,though.
(20:09):
My hair is grey enough now thatI remember growing up at a time
when people did not have foodallergies.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I remember that .
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well now it's so common that it's all over every
restaurant.
Waiters here in the Statesautomatically and I think
legally have to ask if you haveany food allergies before they
serve you anything.
And schools with peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Don't even have it near the campus.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Where did this come from.
So we can argue well, it's comefrom pesticides, fertilizers,
things in the air, things in thewater, residues, various
degrees.
But what I've realized by thework that I do is central to
(21:00):
this.
It's at the plant's discretionwhether it's edible and
nutritional or not, literally.
And everybody always commentson how the food tastes better
from your own garden than itever can in the supermarket.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And joining the dots up.
That's where the personal touchcomes.
That's where people are incommunion with their plants.
They love their plants.
There's a personal cooperation.
The plant knows who its personis.
Once we scale agriculture to apoint where the farmer is no
longer literally talking totheir plants and their animals
(21:42):
and their land, as example inthis case, the land and the
plants don't know what'shappening and they mount a
stress response.
So I believe I've come tobelieve that unwittingly we're
actually growing toxic foodbecause we're not talking to the
plants.
(22:03):
And once you get your headaround this, it's a bit of a big
picture view.
If I were to introduce a toxininto the food system, I would be
considered criminally negligentand legally accountable.
I'm not saying that we shouldsue our farmers for criminal
(22:27):
negligence in producing toxicfood, because they don't know
that they're doing that and theydon't know any different.
But I think it's worth a bit ofa three steps back.
Stark, that crop was going tokill the cows and we chatted to
it and then it was highlynutritious.
And just to apply that to ourfood production systems, it's
(22:50):
not just for the woolly-hattedhippies to go and hug trees,
it's actually a survivalnecessity If we're going to eat
food, you have to talk to it inorder that it knows who you are,
what your intentions are and,assuming you get its agreement,
then you can safely go ahead andeat it.
So I think you know that's abit of an illustrative story
(23:18):
that pulls a lot of threadstogether.
That's what we used to callhusbandry.
Now it's agricultural science.
Husbandry is a marriage ofpeople and place.
It's intimate, it's intuitive,it's emotional, it's
communicative.
So, six and a half thousandyears of sustainable husbandry,
a hundred years ofnon-sustainable agricultural
(23:40):
science, it's the communicationand the heart-feltness, it's
literally the love that's in themiddle.
And I know from having workedfor hundreds of farmers that
they deeply, deeply, deeply loveand care about their places and
their crops and their animals.
And they would be horrified tothink that they're not doing
(24:05):
best practice and horrified tothink that they're not doing a
good job and horrified to thinkthat the food going off farm was
poisonous.
And so I think that's a veryexciting thought that, uh, as
I've been doing, um, as ishappening more and more, this is
(24:25):
very simple re-education.
And it's not even re-education,it's, it's really a remembering
.
This is how our grandparentsand great-grandparents, and six
and a half thousand years ofgenerations knew how to relate
to land by observation andpatient practice in the same
place, for you know, 20 and 30generations at a time.
(24:46):
Talk about epigenetics yeah,well, thousands.
In the case of australia,thousands so that uh story is, I
think, of particular interest.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yes, and speaking of remembering the Navajo Denae man
I was speaking with, Imentioned earlier he and his
wife in the podcast with themrecently and his wife being from
Pennsylvania Mennonite family,she said she came to a point
where I think she was a bitfrustrated with something and
(25:20):
and james said to her you needto speak to the plants more.
And she sort of took that atface value.
But then one day she really didand she heard.
She heard it back, you know, um, she describes it well on the,
on the podcast, you know, asthis would be outsider,
(25:43):
culturally speaking,conceptualizing herself as such.
Yeah, not inherently, you know,consistent with what you're
saying, not inherently anoutsider at all, but culturally
coming in and then applying whathe had suggested was what was
missing and it all changed.
And they're not these aren'tthe only instances I've heard
(26:07):
either and in very, verypragmatic ways and contexts.
And now, yeah, we are readingand learning so much more about
this, even in the popular domain, through books and other
research that's coming out atthe moment.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So it just seemed to be an opening I think it is an
opening, um, and it's a.
It's a pretty simple messageand, once you got it, um, it's
one that you know is informative.
I'd also share anotherplant-based story, this one from
new south wales, uh, on aproperty that the farmers
(26:47):
described it as rolls royceproperty with no spark plugs and
they couldn't tell why itwasn't going well, because it
should do all the yeah analysesof soil and minerals were really
rather good.
Um, it was in a relatively uhbenign, uh part of of new south
(27:11):
wales and, uh, they'd been doinghigh density grazing, crop
rotations, biodynamics andradionics, all on the farm, but
they just couldn't get it toperform in the way that they
knew that it really should beable to.
So they invited me to go andlook and what was immediately
(27:32):
perceptible to me, lookingthrough my lens, was that the
land was terribly, terribly,terribly subdued and held down,
held back, overcast by residualenergy from an aboriginal
massacre that was well known tohave occurred there during the
(27:53):
period of colonization.
And when I looked more deeplyinto it, through intuition,
psychic scanning, dowsing, itbecame clear that we had
earthbound souls, ghosts onproperty left over from.
We had curses on property leftover from the residual angst and
(28:21):
emotion of events leading up toand the displacement.
And then, a little bit like thealfalfa crop as described, the
land did not have the concept ofmonoculture agriculture at all.
It still thought that it was awilderness and that its job was
(28:41):
to support kangaroos and possums.
So in that circumstance, quitea lot of the work was first just
a healing of the spirit ofplace, ensuring that the ghosts
were properly attended to andsuccessfully repatriated to
friends and family in theheavenly realm.
(29:02):
The intense emotional residuesresolved and blessed and cleared
up.
And then, same as with thealfalfa, just a good old chat
with the land to explainagriculture as we were bringing
it and the plants and animalsthat were being brought to the
(29:26):
farm and that we were asking tobe supported.
And again there was an ahamoment where the land got it and
said yes and thanks for theclarity and we'll do everything
we can.
There was an aha moment wherethe land got it and said yes and
thanks for the clarity andwe'll do everything we can.
And two weeks later theyplanted a sorghum crop and
(29:48):
previously their best yield hadbeen 1.6 tonnes per acre.
Their average had been 1 tonneper acre.
This one came in at 2.3 tonnesper acre, which was exciting,
and it's not that it made it gofaster, it was that.
That's what that landscapeshould always been providing, so
it was bringing it to itsnormal, healthy state.
(30:12):
But even more exciting, aj, thanthe, than the crop yield, was
that one of the landscapeintelligence responses, once it
fully understood what we were upto and that sorghum, what
sorghum was and that sorghum wasour ask.
The landscape introduced intothe crop so many spiders and
(30:33):
wasps that they totally tookcare of the Heliothus grub,
which is the normal predator onsorghum, and they were literally
the only one of ten adjacentfarmers all being served by the
same agronomist not to have tospray for pesticides.
So not only did we get thisland up to its natural, healthy
(30:55):
optimum of production, but wemanaged to integrate the
intelligence so that it'scompletely self-managing.
Um, and that for me again is,if that level of communication,
cooperation is present, thenthat puts us into a truly
sustainable and joyousrelationship.
(31:16):
And you know that the land didthat for you because you asked
it to do it, and so there's nothinking of it as a third-party,
abstract, inanimate thing.
If it's doing that after Iasked it to do it, and it hasn't
done it for the last 20 years,and it's not doing it on anybody
(31:37):
else's place.
This is a direct response topersonal communications and just
possibly the thinnest edge ofthe wedge of what's possible.
I'd also just share a couplestories, because we can
(31:57):
communicate with plants, we cancommunicate with animals.
Terry's got a lovely story ofwolf whispering in Montana that
he may have shared with you.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
He didn't share that one on the podcast actually.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
He was able to communicate with three wolf pack
alphas and negotiate that ifthe wolves had free access to
all water, including the waterin the cattle troughs, um, and
not be shot at that they wouldleave the calves alone.
And uh, indeed, as far as Iknow, seven, eight years later
(32:31):
that's that's still holding up.
In my recent trips to australiaI had the pleasure of
connecting with a wonderfullytelepathic Queensland cattle
farmer who was losing up to 80calves per year to dingo strikes
8-0-80 calves which wasdevastating and stressful and
(32:52):
also economically verychallenging.
And he described a story outone day in the ute and had his
rifle and saw an alpha male andshot it dead and then really
felt like something had tochange because this wasn't good
for anybody.
So he was naturallypsychopathic from birth, had
rather dismissed it andmarginalized it, but he switched
(33:12):
it on and he checked in withthe alpha dingoes and came to an
arrangement that he would nevershoot them again and let them
roam the landscape as theywished, as long as they left his
calves alone.
And this held up for threeyears.
And then, uh, one calf wasbitten not killed but bitten and
he checked back in with thedingoes to see what was going on
(33:34):
and they said, uh, we know thathappened, it wasn't us, it was
a rogue dog.
Came in from the north, wees,to see what was going on, and
they said, uh, we know thathappened, it wasn't us, it was a
rogue dog.
Came in from the north, we'vechased it out of territory,
we're still good, so this is allgood.
And then a few months later thedingoes come and knock on his
door, the door of his mind, andthey want to know whether he's
still got his gun.
And he says, yes, I put it incupboard, but I still got it.
(33:55):
And they say well, there's acat in the territory and we
can't catch it.
It keeps running up a tree.
We're wondering if you'd comeand shoot it for us.
He did go out three timeslooking for said cat, didn't
find it, and then the dingoescame back to him again and said
we've caught up to it, it's alltaken care of of.
(34:15):
You can put your gun away.
So I've come across many peoplewho've got as far as a
negotiation mutual with thedingoes, but this was the first
time that the dingoes came backand asked for a mafia hit, a
competitive predator.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But so I'm equally curious, then, if this is in us
all, how would we people we goabout tapping back in
remembering, I mean, aside fromcalling you in, right, or maybe
(34:59):
that is the thing, well, I'malready busy and it's a large
world.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So I run workshops and do classes and podcasts like
your own.
I think this is truly the mostnatural of all things that we
can do.
It's almost not a learned thingat all, aj, it's just we have a
natural connection toeverything.
(35:24):
We have a specific connectionto whatever we hold in mind and
in heart.
So, whether you need to talk toyour car or your partner or
your dog or your cow or yourlawn or your cherry trees, the
process is very simple.
We just get into a peacefulspace and lovingly hold the
(35:52):
object of our connectiveintention in mind until we feel
loving rapport established withit, and then at that point we
have these internalconversations and we're talking
to things that don't necessarilyhave a physical voice.
So the return communication isby reciprocal telepathy, where
(36:17):
the cow or the plant or theriver or the weather is putting
thoughts and images into yourmind, and so we observe what
comes into our mind.
Quite literally, we observe theidea that arises, we observe
the thought, the vision, theinstinct, the feeling, and we
can go backwards and forwards,like that of asking for an idea
(36:41):
and getting one back, or askingwhat they think about bringing
the sheep back in or plantingcarrots next, and then wait and
see whether that feels right,whether we get different
guidance, whether we get ago-ahead.
So it's quite easy to projectour thoughts.
(37:02):
I find that perhaps theunfamiliar in the art is the
deep listening of then, afterhaving asked, just to sit with
the question and allow theanswer to emerge.
And sometimes it's right there.
Sometimes it comes in a dreamthe next night.
Sometimes it shows up randomlyin a comes in a dream the next
night.
Sometimes it shows up randomlyin a conversation with a friend
(37:23):
the following day.
The universe has a myriad ofways of getting information to
us and getting our intentionattention.
Um, once we've made it knownthat there's, there's guidance
or information that we need, soI truly think it's when it works
.
It's effortless, it's one ofthose, and you're relaxing back
(37:45):
into your most natural state ofbeing a part of the family of
things and having conversationsarising that's a very.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
These are very consistent threads that come
through time and time again overthe seven years of doing this
podcast and right through toeven elite level sport, music,
the flow state stuff.
It's very interesting the waysthat I think we're talking to
the same stuff.
We've mentioned Terry a littlebit.
You guys are still workingtogether, but a bit of a
(38:20):
different form, as I understandit.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Terry, avant-garde pioneer, iconic saviour of
Australian agriculture.
He had started a journey ofexploration of dowsing and land
whispering before I met him.
I was fortunate enough to beinvited to the 20th annual
(38:45):
conference where, for the firsttime, rcs really put land
whispering out on its main stage, and there was so much interest
that we then developed aprogram of three-day Level 1,
three-day level two trainingsfor farmers, a two-day graduate
(39:07):
circle where people working withit could come back and skill
share and support each other,and RCS hosted that until 2023,
at which point it made the mostsense to allow the Quantum Leap
(39:29):
program, which we call this, tobe hosted by its own independent
body so that it could bedeveloped and extended beyond
RCS's capacity to do that.
So we feel very, very, veryintegrated and connected with
(39:49):
RCS and really part of theirfamily, of the menu, of
everything that a farmer couldpossibly need to know, from
grazing to profit to low-, lowstress, stock handling and fairy
whispering.
So we were inside of the RCSbody for 13, 14 years and now
(40:14):
the same characters have createdQuantum Leet, subtle Energy,
which is a non-profit.
That's allowing us to expandour range of offerings as well
as the number of workshops, butit's very much a continuous
thread and there was amarvellous moment at the
(40:34):
conference when Terry and I werestill getting to know each
other and for some reason orother we both pulled our
pendulums out of our pockets andfound that we both had nuts on
the ends of strings.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
So Terry and I bonded by showing each other our nuts
in public in a dowsing sense,and never, never, looked back
all right, I look forward to toseeing that come to fruition.
Beautiful, very excited.
All right, patrick, I thinkwe've run the gamut and come
(41:09):
through the large part of theday and it's probably even time
to start getting dinner ready.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
But you know I end with talking about a piece of
music, what comes to mind foryou, I think, think, probably
particularly in context,vivaldi's Four Seasons, I think,
as a piece of music that reallycaptures the spirit and essence
(41:33):
of the many moods of alandscape, from its wild
ferocity to its gentlepeacefulness.
It's a lovely piece of musicand it was a great favourite as
a child, and so I think I'd gofor.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Vivaldi, that's beautiful.
When I was 18, I think, and onStruggle Street, and you know a
long lover of rock and roll, butat 18, Vivaldi was the first
classical music I really gotinto.
Yeah, and Four Seasons was it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's so accessible.
It's so accessible.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
And so well, classic, it doesn't date.
No, it doesn't.
It's beautiful, wonderfulPatrick.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Thanks a lot, mate, it's great to be with you
Absolute pleasure, lovely tomeet you, lovely to have you
here in Vermont and thank you so, so much for your interest in
the work and being willing toshare it with your audience.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The music you're hearing is by Patrick McManoway.
When I learned he played thepenny whistle, I asked if he'd
play it for us.
He said he was out of breathand practice but, blessedly,
wasn't too proud to let it fly.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
© transcript Emily Beynon.
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