March 5, 2025 • 26 mins
Debra Weller says stories can not only help you connect with your audience, but can also help them remember what you have to say. Weller, who will be speaking at Pioneer's StoryConnect 2025 in St. Augustine, Florida, also provides tips for overcoming nerves and delivering your message.
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Intro:
A production of Pioneer Utility Resources. (00:05):
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StoryConnect, helping communicators discover ideas to shape their stories and connect with their customers.
Andy Johns: How can storytelling make you a better public speaker? (00:16):
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That's what we'll be talking about on this episode of The StoryConnect Podcast. My name is Andy Johns, your host with
Pioneer, and I'm joined on this episode by Debra Weller, who is the president of the Florida Storytelling Association and
a speaker at our StoryConnect Conference this year.
So, Debra, thanks so much for joining me.
Debra Weller: I'm so excited to be joining you and to learn about all that you do in your field, (00:35):
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and also to be presenting at the conference, right in my neighborhood in Saint Augustine.
Andy Johns: That's true. So you are a Floridian, and you're right there in Saint Augustine. (00:45):
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So Debra has been giving me a few of the local tips and everything there already while we're talking about it.
W e are recording this episode before StoryConnect.
We're going to try to get the episode out.
If we're not, then we may refer to StoryConnect in the future tense when it's already out.
But we're going to try to get this one out before the conference happens. And the StoryConnect Conference is the reason why I've
(01:10):
got the pirate flag in the background.
It's going to be in Saint Augustine, Florida, a lot of rich pirate history there.
And so the whole theme of the conference is kind of a piratical one,
which is a word that I have learned, while we're talking about it.
But, Debra, let's jump right into what your topic is going to be about.
The session is called "Be a Better Public Speaker by Navigating to the Heart of Your Story." So how do you suggest people
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use storytelling to make them be a better public speaker?
Debra Weller: Okay, first of all, we know that public speaking can shake people at the core. (01:42):
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Andy Johns: That's true. (01:47):
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Debra Weller: Getting up on a stage or even speaking in a meeting, people can get shaken to the core. (01:48):
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Like, "Oh my gosh, this is the worst thing I ever had to do!" Sweating,
palpitations, all of those things which are really normal, and that is actually a condition called glossophobia.
Andy Johns: Oh, good to know. (02:07):
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Debra Weller: And so, it's an anxiety, but for some people, it's just a little bit. (02:08):
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Some people it's a lot. So that's why I'm here to help people realize.
Now, I know that your people in your various businesses throughout the country,
they have to go out. They have to tell their stories in public forums,
board meetings, wherever. Because not only are they trying to represent their brand,
(02:33):
their product, but they're also getting out to their communities.
What better way than to use a story, a compelling
story based on what they've witnessed, what they've walked through,
what they see in their communities, and how their business solves so many problems to make life
(02:59):
better for the citizens and the businesses in their community.
So I am going to have a playful kind of experience because I want people to understand how to develop a
story. Where can they pull that information from?
What are they already doing that can become the story?
And then I will take them to the public speaking level of polishing up those little anecdotes,
(03:26):
or those brief little stories that will help them to demonstrate their point and become a more dynamic speaker.
Whether it's a one-on-one with someone behind a desk, or whether they're out in front of a larger audience,
and help them to go through some exercises to quell those fears.
But feeling the confidence so they can be authentic as to who they are and
(03:52):
authentically speaking, as you said, from the heart.
How do we engage? It's got to be from the heart.
Andy Johns: I think there's so much you touched on just there . (04:00):
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T hat authenticity piece is crucial.
A big piece of what I'm looking forward to with this session and with this conversation is,
you know, a lot of people think I'm not a professional public speaker.
Like you, you are paid to go to different places and present.
I think you said you were in Dubai, or you've been different places in the world to tell these
(04:22):
stories as a professional public speaker.
But like you said, that also is in a meeting with peers.
Y ou know, and even one-on-one, if folks are doing sales pitches.
Really, public speaking is so much more than just what people sometimes think of with the big stage and the,
you know, the microphone and all that.
Debra Weller: Actually, yes. A few years ago, Forbes magazine presented that 90% of our career success (04:41):
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is based on our ability to be a public speaker.
Andy Johns: Oh, wow. (04:53):
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Debra Weller: And we don't get a lot of training for that in our college courses, (04:54):
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even in high school, you might have to give a few reports here and there.
The dreaded book report that you had to do in elementary school.
So a lot of us don't get that experience, even at a college level,
unless you're taking debate or a public speaking presentation.
(05:15):
Now, yes, it's become more prevalent in the way that we learn and present our ideas with our big photo
deck, you know, doing our PowerPoint presentations.
But a PowerPoint presentation is not necessarily a story.
It's presenting facts. It's presenting data.
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But I want to show people how a story can connect those facts and data in their
deck, so that it makes a seamless point of engaging with empathy and
that connection of emotional connection to the piece.
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So when we set up our ability to speak, small group, large group,
whatever it's going to be, yes, we might not be a polished speaker in the beginning,
but there are ways that you can practice and making sure that we're not doing what I call the "ands" and the "ums."
"Well, you know, I'm standing before you today.
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Um, I'm going to be presenting my idea about how we're going to connect in our community.
And I wanted to tell you this story." And also, I was using a very deadpan voice.
Andy Johns: Right. Yeah. If anybody's driving right now, and you're getting a little sleepy from that bad example there, (06:29):
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I think that proves the point a little bit, but.
Debra Weller: Right. (06:36):
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Andy Johns: 'Yeah. Yep. (06:37):
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Debra Weller: So, you know, to be on the stage to engage people, even in a conversation like we're having now, (06:37):
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there has to be a little bit of excitement in the voice.
There's got to be some ownership to your message, because it must be important enough that you need to get it
out to people. And so that's why I want to make sure that people don't come into this thinking that they'll walk away being ready
(07:04):
to go on the stage completely, but enhance what they're already doing,
validate what they're already doing, validate the stories that they're coming with,
that they deal with daily in their work.
And how do we bring those to life on a stage to emphasize a point,
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that could be the difference between making a deal or having the deal pass you by.
Andy Johns: Right. And there's some science to this, too. (07:33):
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It's not just, it's not just kind of a squishy feelings, but I know that you've talked about it in your,
the presentation we've talked about, and we've had other speakers touch on it before, but our brains
are actually set up to remember stories.
And, you know, as you were saying, the kind of connected, more than just a list of facts.
(07:56):
Like we're wired for stories.
Debra Weller: Mhm. Absolutely. Studies have been coming out recently from various university studies throughout the world regarding (07:58):
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stories. And yes, the brain compartmentalizes story as its main function.
So if I am speaking to you and I just sort of ramble, you're not going to be able to connect my message
(08:20):
because it doesn't have a beginning, doesn't have a middle, it doesn't have an end or a satisfying
conclusion or a solving of a problem.
And your brain is like saying, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." And the difference is,
if you do your presentation with a connection of a story woven through it,
it's going to go into the long term memory versus short term memory,
(08:44):
especially if you're presenting any data.
We know data can be dry. Right.
Andy Johns: Sure. (08:50):
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Debra Weller: And sometimes we have to use it to make a compelling point or to drive home an issue. (08:50):
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Right. A problem that might be solved with the data and the hard science of,
"Wait a minute. This is why we have to do this, because the data is indicating this problem or this
need." And so with our storytelling, if you can somehow weave a little tale that
(09:17):
makes it more relatable and gives the brain the satisfaction of a beginning,
middle and end.
Andy Johns: Makes perfect sense. You've talked on a couple of different answers about authenticity or, (09:23):
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you know, being yourself. You know, we at Pioneer, we've got three very talented speakers,
humbly I say that, you know, myself, Megan McKoy-Noe and Anne Harvey .
And Megan hosts the podcast as well, so folks will be familiar with her.
(09:44):
We're all three very different speakers, and we learned pretty quickly that you can't just necessarily
take one of our presentations and the other person just give it, because telling those stories in there,
if it's not authentic, if it's not our style, then it doesn't work as well.
So if somebody out there, you know, not everybody can, you know,
especially with something like humor, somebody may start off a speech with a funny story that works for
(10:09):
some folks in certain styles and doesn't work for others.
So how do folks go about finding out who they are, what feels authentic?
You know, if they're hearing this, and they're thinking, "You know, I've got to give a presentation
to the board and a couple of weeks.
I need to work some stories in there." How do they go about figuring out what's authentic for them?
Debra Weller: Well, I think what's authentic for them is what they experience. (10:29):
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Now, they could also use, let's say, a folktale or a fable, maybe to introduce a point.
And yeah, you might find a funny little joke that could add to your day just to kind of break the ice.
And it breaks the ice for the speaker, too.
But it's not always necessary to be the comedian.
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As you said, everybody has a different style.
I have seen some storytellers perform and some speakers that basically stand pretty still.
But their voice, the way they use their voice, their pauses,
their eye contact, those are the tools of the speaker and the storyteller.
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So yes, the humor might come in because I move a lot when I perform or when I'm
speaking. I'm not going to be behind a podium.
I'm going to be moving. That's me.
I have that energy. I need to do it.
I also have to make eye contact with my audience.
If you're looking up like some speakers will look up or, you know,
(11:40):
they're kind of looking down too much at their notes or whatever,
or just reading the slides. They've lost their audience.
Andy Johns: Sure. (11:48):
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Debra Weller: Okay. And yes, I can't be you. You can't be me. (11:49):
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So what my best advice is, is who are you?
Are you more quiet? But can you speak with emphasis?
Put pauses into your presentation.
Make that connection in that way.
If you're somebody who's jovial and kind, well, yeah, you know, you're going to tease the audience a little
(12:13):
bit. You're going to go and play with the audience and that works for you.
But like you said, with your colleagues, you can't be someone else.
Matthew Dicks is one of the story slam presentation storyteller.
He's also an author, does a lot about storytelling in business.
And Matthew talks about this in his book "Story Worthy." And he talks that,
(12:35):
you know, folks, we can't be someone else.
And until you're comfortable in your own skin, you can't be that chameleon.
But can you step out of your box a little bit to learn some new skills that will help you with
engagement and help you feel more at ease?
Yes, that's where the difference is.
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You can bring in your authenticity, but polish it up so that you can offer what
is good public speaking skills, but also compelling engagement for your audience.
Andy Johns: I'm glad you touched on that because I think some folks think public speakers are extroverts. (13:10):
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And if you're introvert, you're not going to be a public speaker. But some of the best speakers I've seen are introverts, and
they've worked on it. And it's not necessarily about how outgoing you may be in a personal situation,
but, you know, to be able to flip that switch or realize, like you're saying,
(13:32):
engaging with that audience on stage, it's not necessarily introvert versus extrovert.
Do you think anybody can be a good public speaker?
Debra Weller: Well, I think they could be trained, if they are willing to do it. (13:41):
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Some people have so many fears, or they put up their own blocks.
But I work with kids, foster care teens.
Andy Johns: Okay. (14:01):
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Debra Weller: And I do career readiness academies for these students. (14:03):
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And these are children of trauma.
Many of us qualify in that category too.
And so I train them in public speaking.
And they will bow their heads at first like, I'm not worthy to be here.
And they're just in front of a peer group, a small group.
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And I first have them work with a partner to get rid of some of those fears,
to also use a template to kind of sketch out what they need to say,
because part of it is that you have confidence in your material.
Andy Johns: Sure. (14:36):
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Debra Weller: You've got to own it, you've got to believe in it, and you've got to want to do it. (14:36):
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You can't do somebody else's presentation.
Andy Johns: 100% (14:43):
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Debra Weller: But what I have noticed is once these kids feel safe and in an environment just the same as a speaker, (14:43):
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do they feel safe? We're all going to be nervous standing in front of a group,
right?
Andy Johns: Sure. (14:55):
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Debra Weller: But they knew, and I set down the ground rules for everyone in the room because these are teenagers to be respectful (14:55):
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and some adults need that too. Let's face it.
Andy Johns: That's true. (15:05):
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Debra Weller: And these kids got up and told their heart story of (15:06):
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their trauma, and how they had transformed, or were on the road to leave that
past behind. Well, I was like, in tears.
Andy Johns: Oh, sure, anybody would be. Yeah. (15:25):
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Debra Weller: I also realized these young people could become motivational speakers because their stories of transformation are so (15:26):
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powerful. So for a basic person who's listening to this right now,
folks, don't negate that you could be trained, and you could find that training to gain your confidence to
speak. Let's say you're just at your job, and you've got to go into a meeting,
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and you're only doing a three minute presentation.
Do you want it to become something people will remember?
Do you want to feel power? Well, yes.
There's techniques and training for you.
You don't have to struggle in the process, and there's coaching available to help you.
Andy Johns: Do you have any tricks for that? (16:09):
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You know, you always hear the one, "Just imagine the audience is naked." And I think that's a
terrible idea, a terrible idea. T he best advice somebody ever gave me like that was just know that everybody in the
room is rooting for you to do well.
And that's always helped me, that if you're up there and you're thinking, "Oh, no, you know, do they like my shoes? Do they, you
(16:30):
know, like," you know, whatever it is, then you're going to drive yourself crazy.
But if you go in thinking that everybody in the room wants you to succeed, that's always helped me. Are there any tricks like that
you've seen that kind of help folks get past that nervousness?
Debra Weller: There's a mindset training that you need to go through when you now are stepping into a position where you have to give (16:42):
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speeches, or you have to give presentations.
And if you're not comfortable, you haven't done this before, then it helps if you have a mentor to walk you
through and/or read some good books.
Listen to good podcasts about it.
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There's a lot of that available.
Take training. It would be a good advice for someone to take training with a mentor.
So here's what I usually do. Exactly what you said.
I say, "I have a message. I want to own this message.
I am here for a purpose. My audience is ready to receive it, and I'm going to give it in the best way that I
(17:26):
can." And I so kind of pump myself up, "You can do it.
You can do it. You can really do it.
You're going to be okay." Yes, I might be sweating under my armpits and shaking in my boots for the first seconds.
You know, and that's where, you know, if you have a podium, and you need to put your hand on it.
I have a stool when I perform. I'm sitting on my stool because it grounds me.
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And that way, you know, when I lift my hand, people aren't seeing me shaking from the excitement,
you know. And even though I've performed for 45 years and give presentations for 45 years,
I still get a little nervous. And it's okay, you know, because that makes me want to do better,
but have a mindset. Also, have your calming techniques ready.
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Before your presentation, you know, the week before, what are you going to do?
You're going to practice, practice, practice. You're always going to make sure you have your
materials ready, you know, so dress in your clothes that make you feel
comfortable. Don't have anything bulging out of your pocket.
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Don't have something slipping off.
You know, wear something that you feel your best in, that's comfortable and not cumbersome.
And I had a situation where I had to do a presentations to about 30,
40, 50 people in the room, and I go in, and I'm feeling really good,
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and I'm halfway through, and I look down at my feet.
I had red shoes on, but two different pair of red shoes.
Andy Johns: Oh, no. (19:01):
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Debra Weller: And I thought, I looked down, and I said, "Okay, I can't let this flip me out. (19:02):
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I can't get off course here." I just had to go on, you know?
Andy Johns: The show must go on. Yep. (19:11):
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Debra Weller: And then I kind of incorporated a little story about the red shoes in my closing. (19:12):
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Nobody really noticed because they weren't even looking at my shoes,
but I thought they were okay. And so my advice is, get your calming.
I have a lot of that information.
I do online courses to help people with this.
I can be a coach for people to help them walk through to practice their presentation if they're feeling,
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you know, like they need a little boost.
Andy Johns: Perfect. Great suggestions. So, and you know, we talked about it a little bit. (19:41):
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So you are a professional storyteller, president of the Florida Storytelling Association.
A lot of the storytelling you do is certainly more, I would say,
narrative or creative. You know, I know you do, Mrs.
Claus, at Christmas time. Very different, or it feels very different than the more professional
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corporate, I don't know, corporate may be the wrong word, but, you know, more of a business setting for speaking
presentations. But what carries back and forth?
What are some things that you've learned on the more fun professional storytelling side that also goes back to the
more business setting speaking and vice versa?
Debra Weller: Okay. Yes. A lot of my experience, my experience, I was 35 years in the classroom as a kindergarten (20:26):
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teacher, and Robert Fulghum says everything you needed to know you learned in kindergarten,
so –
Andy Johns: A nd that's a tough audience. That's a much tougher audience than some of the conferences, (20:38):
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for sure.
Debra Weller: If you can do a room full of squirrely kindergartners, you can handle an adult. They really aren't that much different (20:44):
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than the kindergartners, bigger bodies. That's all.
Andy Johns: I'll buy that. (20:51):
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Debra Weller: They're squirrely as well. But here's what I have noticed the basic performing rules, (20:51):
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and the basic performing statutes you might say, are the same.
The job of the storyteller is to know who their audience is before they walk on the stage,
(21:12):
gear their stories to the age level, to the group that they are speaking to.
If I'm doing children, I'm going to have a whole different presentation than I am with adults,
but still put some playfulness into the adult.
The other thing is, my programs for children are very different.
And then when I move into the scope of being a presenter, being a speaker,
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I have to say, "Okay, I'm still going to weave story into it, and my presentation will be
story like." It will have a specific beginning, a middle and an end.
There may be, you know, a problem to solve in the presentation.
That would be the why of what I'm doing it for, and the why for the audience.
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We cannot forget the audience needs when we are on stage, whether I'm performing in the form of with children or adult
audiences, or whether I'm giving a formal presentation.
So the why is important. And I think what, there's similarities,
there are differences, but the speaker definitely.
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The crucial part is know your audience, know what they need and know the why of why you were asked to
speak, or why you are choosing to be on the topic that you're doing.
Andy Johns: I think that's excellent points. (22:33):
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I was in something the other day in a meeting outside of work, and the speaker just made a lot of assumptions about the people
in the room that were completely wrong.
And then the whole rest of the presentation, you're just stuck back on that. So, yeah. Know the audience, I
think is crucial. Well, last thing.
And I said, you know, maybe we'll go 15 or 18 minutes, but with couple of storytellers on here,
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we'll probably go longer than that. So we may be running a little long,
but I think let's close with, you know, you've given a lot of great tips for folks,
a lot of advice. I f somebody was listening to this going, I need to be a better public speaker.
I need to work some of these stories in.
Obviously, I would suggest that they either come to StoryConnect in Saint Augustine,
(23:17):
or they look you up and Google Debra Weller, Storyteller, and find some resources and connect with you.
But what's one or two things that folks can take away to kind of immediately become a better public speaker and a better
storyteller?
Debra Weller: So find out what's available in your community. (23:30):
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Toastmasters is a great training program if you want to become a public speaker.
They will help you. They will get you really polished up when you do the work.
Sometimes at the libraries, wherever you know that there's a speaker coming on at a local university or anything
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in your area, go observe the speaker and see what is the speaker doing and
how is it affecting the audience.
Analyze that. You can also watch Ted Talks online.
Andy Johns: Sure. (24:05):
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Debra Weller: And see what they are doing. And even comedians, you know, watch comedians. (24:05):
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How are they engaging the audience?
What is it that they do now? Not everybody can be a comedian.
It's a practiced art, and it comes naturally for some, and it's forced for others.
But notice. Go to any kind of play in your community.
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How are the actors on stage? What are they doing in their lines?
And I think you become an observer, also a storytelling festival in your community.
There are storytelling guilds in communities mostly.
If you find out, just Google storytelling groups and, you know, in Lexington,
Kentucky, wherever you are.
Andy Johns: And we've got one here in Tennessee. (24:47):
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So yeah, there around.
Debra Weller: Oh, Tennessee. We've got the National Storytelling Festival every year in Jonesborough. (24:50):
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I would highly recommend people go, because I think when you see some professional storytellers on
stage, you're seeing the craft, and then you can say, but how can I adapt that into my
presentation? And it isn't necessary that you're going to stand up there and tell a folktale,
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but you might use some premises of a folktale to weave.
I mean, the folktales teach. They were meant for teaching, the Grimm stories,
everything was meant for teaching.
There's fabulous fables and beautiful Native American stories that illustrate a point of feeling and empathy or
struggle in life, and everybody can connect to a struggle in life.
Andy Johns: That's true. I think you're right about that. (25:35):
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I think that's great advice. Well, Debra, thanks so much for taking the time to join me on this
episode. Thanks so much for being willing to come share with our group at StoryConnect this year, as well.
Debra Weller: Yes, I'm looking forward to it. (25:45):
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Andy Johns: Perfect. She is Debra Weller. She is the president of the Florida Storytelling Association and a professional storyteller. (25:47):
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I'm your host Andy Johns with Pioneer.
And until we talk again, keep telling your story.
Outro: StoryConnect is produced by Pioneer Utility Resources, a communications cooperative that is built to share your story. (25:59):
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StoryConnect, helping communicators discover ideas to shape their stories and connect with their customers.
Andy Johns: How can storytelling make you a better public speaker? (00:16):
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That's what we'll be talking about on this episode of The StoryConnect Podcast. My name is Andy Johns, your host with
Pioneer, and I'm joined on this episode by Debra Weller, who is the president of the Florida Storytelling Association and
a speaker at our StoryConnect Conference this year.
So, Debra, thanks so much for joining me.
Debra Weller: I'm so excited to be joining you and to learn about all that you do in your field, (00:35):
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and also to be presenting at the conference, right in my neighborhood in Saint Augustine.
Andy Johns: That's true. So you are a Floridian, and you're right there in Saint Augustine. (00:45):
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So Debra has been giving me a few of the local tips and everything there already while we're talking about it.
W e are recording this episode before StoryConnect.
We're going to try to get the episode out.
If we're not, then we may refer to StoryConnect in the future tense when it's already out.
But we're going to try to get this one out before the conference happens. And the StoryConnect Conference is the reason why I've
(01:10):
got the pirate flag in the background.
It's going to be in Saint Augustine, Florida, a lot of rich pirate history there.
And so the whole theme of the conference is kind of a piratical one,
which is a word that I have learned, while we're talking about it.
But, Debra, let's jump right into what your topic is going to be about.
The session is called "Be a Better Public Speaker by Navigating to the Heart of Your Story." So how do you suggest people
(01:38):
use storytelling to make them be a better public speaker?
Debra Weller: Okay, first of all, we know that public speaking can shake people at the core. (01:42):
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Andy Johns: That's true. (01:47):
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Debra Weller: Getting up on a stage or even speaking in a meeting, people can get shaken to the core. (01:48):
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Like, "Oh my gosh, this is the worst thing I ever had to do!" Sweating,
palpitations, all of those things which are really normal, and that is actually a condition called glossophobia.
Andy Johns: Oh, good to know. (02:07):
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Debra Weller: And so, it's an anxiety, but for some people, it's just a little bit. (02:08):
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Some people it's a lot. So that's why I'm here to help people realize.
Now, I know that your people in your various businesses throughout the country,
they have to go out. They have to tell their stories in public forums,
board meetings, wherever. Because not only are they trying to represent their brand,
(02:33):
their product, but they're also getting out to their communities.
What better way than to use a story, a compelling
story based on what they've witnessed, what they've walked through,
what they see in their communities, and how their business solves so many problems to make life
(02:59):
better for the citizens and the businesses in their community.
So I am going to have a playful kind of experience because I want people to understand how to develop a
story. Where can they pull that information from?
What are they already doing that can become the story?
And then I will take them to the public speaking level of polishing up those little anecdotes,
(03:26):
or those brief little stories that will help them to demonstrate their point and become a more dynamic speaker.
Whether it's a one-on-one with someone behind a desk, or whether they're out in front of a larger audience,
and help them to go through some exercises to quell those fears.
But feeling the confidence so they can be authentic as to who they are and
(03:52):
authentically speaking, as you said, from the heart.
How do we engage? It's got to be from the heart.
Andy Johns: I think there's so much you touched on just there . (04:00):
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T hat authenticity piece is crucial.
A big piece of what I'm looking forward to with this session and with this conversation is,
you know, a lot of people think I'm not a professional public speaker.
Like you, you are paid to go to different places and present.
I think you said you were in Dubai, or you've been different places in the world to tell these
(04:22):
stories as a professional public speaker.
But like you said, that also is in a meeting with peers.
Y ou know, and even one-on-one, if folks are doing sales pitches.
Really, public speaking is so much more than just what people sometimes think of with the big stage and the,
you know, the microphone and all that.
Debra Weller: Actually, yes. A few years ago, Forbes magazine presented that 90% of our career success (04:41):
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is based on our ability to be a public speaker.
Andy Johns: Oh, wow. (04:53):
undefined
Debra Weller: And we don't get a lot of training for that in our college courses, (04:54):
undefined
even in high school, you might have to give a few reports here and there.
The dreaded book report that you had to do in elementary school.
So a lot of us don't get that experience, even at a college level,
unless you're taking debate or a public speaking presentation.
(05:15):
Now, yes, it's become more prevalent in the way that we learn and present our ideas with our big photo
deck, you know, doing our PowerPoint presentations.
But a PowerPoint presentation is not necessarily a story.
It's presenting facts. It's presenting data.
(05:36):
But I want to show people how a story can connect those facts and data in their
deck, so that it makes a seamless point of engaging with empathy and
that connection of emotional connection to the piece.
(05:56):
So when we set up our ability to speak, small group, large group,
whatever it's going to be, yes, we might not be a polished speaker in the beginning,
but there are ways that you can practice and making sure that we're not doing what I call the "ands" and the "ums."
"Well, you know, I'm standing before you today.
(06:18):
Um, I'm going to be presenting my idea about how we're going to connect in our community.
And I wanted to tell you this story." And also, I was using a very deadpan voice.
Andy Johns: Right. Yeah. If anybody's driving right now, and you're getting a little sleepy from that bad example there, (06:29):
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I think that proves the point a little bit, but.
Debra Weller: Right. (06:36):
undefined
Andy Johns: 'Yeah. Yep. (06:37):
undefined
Debra Weller: So, you know, to be on the stage to engage people, even in a conversation like we're having now, (06:37):
undefined
there has to be a little bit of excitement in the voice.
There's got to be some ownership to your message, because it must be important enough that you need to get it
out to people. And so that's why I want to make sure that people don't come into this thinking that they'll walk away being ready
(07:04):
to go on the stage completely, but enhance what they're already doing,
validate what they're already doing, validate the stories that they're coming with,
that they deal with daily in their work.
And how do we bring those to life on a stage to emphasize a point,
(07:25):
that could be the difference between making a deal or having the deal pass you by.
Andy Johns: Right. And there's some science to this, too. (07:33):
undefined
It's not just, it's not just kind of a squishy feelings, but I know that you've talked about it in your,
the presentation we've talked about, and we've had other speakers touch on it before, but our brains
are actually set up to remember stories.
And, you know, as you were saying, the kind of connected, more than just a list of facts.
(07:56):
Like we're wired for stories.
Debra Weller: Mhm. Absolutely. Studies have been coming out recently from various university studies throughout the world regarding (07:58):
undefined
stories. And yes, the brain compartmentalizes story as its main function.
So if I am speaking to you and I just sort of ramble, you're not going to be able to connect my message
(08:20):
because it doesn't have a beginning, doesn't have a middle, it doesn't have an end or a satisfying
conclusion or a solving of a problem.
And your brain is like saying, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." And the difference is,
if you do your presentation with a connection of a story woven through it,
it's going to go into the long term memory versus short term memory,
(08:44):
especially if you're presenting any data.
We know data can be dry. Right.
Andy Johns: Sure. (08:50):
undefined
Debra Weller: And sometimes we have to use it to make a compelling point or to drive home an issue. (08:50):
undefined
Right. A problem that might be solved with the data and the hard science of,
"Wait a minute. This is why we have to do this, because the data is indicating this problem or this
need." And so with our storytelling, if you can somehow weave a little tale that
(09:17):
makes it more relatable and gives the brain the satisfaction of a beginning,
middle and end.
Andy Johns: Makes perfect sense. You've talked on a couple of different answers about authenticity or, (09:23):
undefined
you know, being yourself. You know, we at Pioneer, we've got three very talented speakers,
humbly I say that, you know, myself, Megan McKoy-Noe and Anne Harvey .
And Megan hosts the podcast as well, so folks will be familiar with her.
(09:44):
We're all three very different speakers, and we learned pretty quickly that you can't just necessarily
take one of our presentations and the other person just give it, because telling those stories in there,
if it's not authentic, if it's not our style, then it doesn't work as well.
So if somebody out there, you know, not everybody can, you know,
especially with something like humor, somebody may start off a speech with a funny story that works for
(10:09):
some folks in certain styles and doesn't work for others.
So how do folks go about finding out who they are, what feels authentic?
You know, if they're hearing this, and they're thinking, "You know, I've got to give a presentation
to the board and a couple of weeks.
I need to work some stories in there." How do they go about figuring out what's authentic for them?
Debra Weller: Well, I think what's authentic for them is what they experience. (10:29):
undefined
Now, they could also use, let's say, a folktale or a fable, maybe to introduce a point.
And yeah, you might find a funny little joke that could add to your day just to kind of break the ice.
And it breaks the ice for the speaker, too.
But it's not always necessary to be the comedian.
(10:54):
As you said, everybody has a different style.
I have seen some storytellers perform and some speakers that basically stand pretty still.
But their voice, the way they use their voice, their pauses,
their eye contact, those are the tools of the speaker and the storyteller.
(11:17):
So yes, the humor might come in because I move a lot when I perform or when I'm
speaking. I'm not going to be behind a podium.
I'm going to be moving. That's me.
I have that energy. I need to do it.
I also have to make eye contact with my audience.
If you're looking up like some speakers will look up or, you know,
(11:40):
they're kind of looking down too much at their notes or whatever,
or just reading the slides. They've lost their audience.
Andy Johns: Sure. (11:48):
undefined
Debra Weller: Okay. And yes, I can't be you. You can't be me. (11:49):
undefined
So what my best advice is, is who are you?
Are you more quiet? But can you speak with emphasis?
Put pauses into your presentation.
Make that connection in that way.
If you're somebody who's jovial and kind, well, yeah, you know, you're going to tease the audience a little
(12:13):
bit. You're going to go and play with the audience and that works for you.
But like you said, with your colleagues, you can't be someone else.
Matthew Dicks is one of the story slam presentation storyteller.
He's also an author, does a lot about storytelling in business.
And Matthew talks about this in his book "Story Worthy." And he talks that,
(12:35):
you know, folks, we can't be someone else.
And until you're comfortable in your own skin, you can't be that chameleon.
But can you step out of your box a little bit to learn some new skills that will help you with
engagement and help you feel more at ease?
Yes, that's where the difference is.
(12:55):
You can bring in your authenticity, but polish it up so that you can offer what
is good public speaking skills, but also compelling engagement for your audience.
Andy Johns: I'm glad you touched on that because I think some folks think public speakers are extroverts. (13:10):
undefined
And if you're introvert, you're not going to be a public speaker. But some of the best speakers I've seen are introverts, and
they've worked on it. And it's not necessarily about how outgoing you may be in a personal situation,
but, you know, to be able to flip that switch or realize, like you're saying,
(13:32):
engaging with that audience on stage, it's not necessarily introvert versus extrovert.
Do you think anybody can be a good public speaker?
Debra Weller: Well, I think they could be trained, if they are willing to do it. (13:41):
undefined
Some people have so many fears, or they put up their own blocks.
But I work with kids, foster care teens.
Andy Johns: Okay. (14:01):
undefined
Debra Weller: And I do career readiness academies for these students. (14:03):
undefined
And these are children of trauma.
Many of us qualify in that category too.
And so I train them in public speaking.
And they will bow their heads at first like, I'm not worthy to be here.
And they're just in front of a peer group, a small group.
(14:25):
And I first have them work with a partner to get rid of some of those fears,
to also use a template to kind of sketch out what they need to say,
because part of it is that you have confidence in your material.
Andy Johns: Sure. (14:36):
undefined
Debra Weller: You've got to own it, you've got to believe in it, and you've got to want to do it. (14:36):
undefined
You can't do somebody else's presentation.
Andy Johns: 100% (14:43):
undefined
Debra Weller: But what I have noticed is once these kids feel safe and in an environment just the same as a speaker, (14:43):
undefined
do they feel safe? We're all going to be nervous standing in front of a group,
right?
Andy Johns: Sure. (14:55):
undefined
Debra Weller: But they knew, and I set down the ground rules for everyone in the room because these are teenagers to be respectful (14:55):
undefined
and some adults need that too. Let's face it.
Andy Johns: That's true. (15:05):
undefined
Debra Weller: And these kids got up and told their heart story of (15:06):
undefined
their trauma, and how they had transformed, or were on the road to leave that
past behind. Well, I was like, in tears.
Andy Johns: Oh, sure, anybody would be. Yeah. (15:25):
undefined
Debra Weller: I also realized these young people could become motivational speakers because their stories of transformation are so (15:26):
undefined
powerful. So for a basic person who's listening to this right now,
folks, don't negate that you could be trained, and you could find that training to gain your confidence to
speak. Let's say you're just at your job, and you've got to go into a meeting,
(15:50):
and you're only doing a three minute presentation.
Do you want it to become something people will remember?
Do you want to feel power? Well, yes.
There's techniques and training for you.
You don't have to struggle in the process, and there's coaching available to help you.
Andy Johns: Do you have any tricks for that? (16:09):
undefined
You know, you always hear the one, "Just imagine the audience is naked." And I think that's a
terrible idea, a terrible idea. T he best advice somebody ever gave me like that was just know that everybody in the
room is rooting for you to do well.
And that's always helped me, that if you're up there and you're thinking, "Oh, no, you know, do they like my shoes? Do they, you
(16:30):
know, like," you know, whatever it is, then you're going to drive yourself crazy.
But if you go in thinking that everybody in the room wants you to succeed, that's always helped me. Are there any tricks like that
you've seen that kind of help folks get past that nervousness?
Debra Weller: There's a mindset training that you need to go through when you now are stepping into a position where you have to give (16:42):
undefined
speeches, or you have to give presentations.
And if you're not comfortable, you haven't done this before, then it helps if you have a mentor to walk you
through and/or read some good books.
Listen to good podcasts about it.
(17:04):
There's a lot of that available.
Take training. It would be a good advice for someone to take training with a mentor.
So here's what I usually do. Exactly what you said.
I say, "I have a message. I want to own this message.
I am here for a purpose. My audience is ready to receive it, and I'm going to give it in the best way that I
(17:26):
can." And I so kind of pump myself up, "You can do it.
You can do it. You can really do it.
You're going to be okay." Yes, I might be sweating under my armpits and shaking in my boots for the first seconds.
You know, and that's where, you know, if you have a podium, and you need to put your hand on it.
I have a stool when I perform. I'm sitting on my stool because it grounds me.
(17:47):
And that way, you know, when I lift my hand, people aren't seeing me shaking from the excitement,
you know. And even though I've performed for 45 years and give presentations for 45 years,
I still get a little nervous. And it's okay, you know, because that makes me want to do better,
but have a mindset. Also, have your calming techniques ready.
(18:09):
Before your presentation, you know, the week before, what are you going to do?
You're going to practice, practice, practice. You're always going to make sure you have your
materials ready, you know, so dress in your clothes that make you feel
comfortable. Don't have anything bulging out of your pocket.
(18:29):
Don't have something slipping off.
You know, wear something that you feel your best in, that's comfortable and not cumbersome.
And I had a situation where I had to do a presentations to about 30,
40, 50 people in the room, and I go in, and I'm feeling really good,
(18:50):
and I'm halfway through, and I look down at my feet.
I had red shoes on, but two different pair of red shoes.
Andy Johns: Oh, no. (19:01):
undefined
Debra Weller: And I thought, I looked down, and I said, "Okay, I can't let this flip me out. (19:02):
undefined
I can't get off course here." I just had to go on, you know?
Andy Johns: The show must go on. Yep. (19:11):
undefined
Debra Weller: And then I kind of incorporated a little story about the red shoes in my closing. (19:12):
undefined
Nobody really noticed because they weren't even looking at my shoes,
but I thought they were okay. And so my advice is, get your calming.
I have a lot of that information.
I do online courses to help people with this.
I can be a coach for people to help them walk through to practice their presentation if they're feeling,
(19:38):
you know, like they need a little boost.
Andy Johns: Perfect. Great suggestions. So, and you know, we talked about it a little bit. (19:41):
undefined
So you are a professional storyteller, president of the Florida Storytelling Association.
A lot of the storytelling you do is certainly more, I would say,
narrative or creative. You know, I know you do, Mrs.
Claus, at Christmas time. Very different, or it feels very different than the more professional
(20:07):
corporate, I don't know, corporate may be the wrong word, but, you know, more of a business setting for speaking
presentations. But what carries back and forth?
What are some things that you've learned on the more fun professional storytelling side that also goes back to the
more business setting speaking and vice versa?
Debra Weller: Okay. Yes. A lot of my experience, my experience, I was 35 years in the classroom as a kindergarten (20:26):
undefined
teacher, and Robert Fulghum says everything you needed to know you learned in kindergarten,
so –
Andy Johns: A nd that's a tough audience. That's a much tougher audience than some of the conferences, (20:38):
undefined
for sure.
Debra Weller: If you can do a room full of squirrely kindergartners, you can handle an adult. They really aren't that much different (20:44):
undefined
than the kindergartners, bigger bodies. That's all.
Andy Johns: I'll buy that. (20:51):
undefined
Debra Weller: They're squirrely as well. But here's what I have noticed the basic performing rules, (20:51):
undefined
and the basic performing statutes you might say, are the same.
The job of the storyteller is to know who their audience is before they walk on the stage,
(21:12):
gear their stories to the age level, to the group that they are speaking to.
If I'm doing children, I'm going to have a whole different presentation than I am with adults,
but still put some playfulness into the adult.
The other thing is, my programs for children are very different.
And then when I move into the scope of being a presenter, being a speaker,
(21:36):
I have to say, "Okay, I'm still going to weave story into it, and my presentation will be
story like." It will have a specific beginning, a middle and an end.
There may be, you know, a problem to solve in the presentation.
That would be the why of what I'm doing it for, and the why for the audience.
(21:58):
We cannot forget the audience needs when we are on stage, whether I'm performing in the form of with children or adult
audiences, or whether I'm giving a formal presentation.
So the why is important. And I think what, there's similarities,
there are differences, but the speaker definitely.
(22:19):
The crucial part is know your audience, know what they need and know the why of why you were asked to
speak, or why you are choosing to be on the topic that you're doing.
Andy Johns: I think that's excellent points. (22:33):
undefined
I was in something the other day in a meeting outside of work, and the speaker just made a lot of assumptions about the people
in the room that were completely wrong.
And then the whole rest of the presentation, you're just stuck back on that. So, yeah. Know the audience, I
think is crucial. Well, last thing.
And I said, you know, maybe we'll go 15 or 18 minutes, but with couple of storytellers on here,
(22:56):
we'll probably go longer than that. So we may be running a little long,
but I think let's close with, you know, you've given a lot of great tips for folks,
a lot of advice. I f somebody was listening to this going, I need to be a better public speaker.
I need to work some of these stories in.
Obviously, I would suggest that they either come to StoryConnect in Saint Augustine,
(23:17):
or they look you up and Google Debra Weller, Storyteller, and find some resources and connect with you.
But what's one or two things that folks can take away to kind of immediately become a better public speaker and a better
storyteller?
Debra Weller: So find out what's available in your community. (23:30):
undefined
Toastmasters is a great training program if you want to become a public speaker.
They will help you. They will get you really polished up when you do the work.
Sometimes at the libraries, wherever you know that there's a speaker coming on at a local university or anything
(23:51):
in your area, go observe the speaker and see what is the speaker doing and
how is it affecting the audience.
Analyze that. You can also watch Ted Talks online.
Andy Johns: Sure. (24:05):
undefined
Debra Weller: And see what they are doing. And even comedians, you know, watch comedians. (24:05):
undefined
How are they engaging the audience?
What is it that they do now? Not everybody can be a comedian.
It's a practiced art, and it comes naturally for some, and it's forced for others.
But notice. Go to any kind of play in your community.
(24:26):
How are the actors on stage? What are they doing in their lines?
And I think you become an observer, also a storytelling festival in your community.
There are storytelling guilds in communities mostly.
If you find out, just Google storytelling groups and, you know, in Lexington,
Kentucky, wherever you are.
Andy Johns: And we've got one here in Tennessee. (24:47):
undefined
So yeah, there around.
Debra Weller: Oh, Tennessee. We've got the National Storytelling Festival every year in Jonesborough. (24:50):
undefined
I would highly recommend people go, because I think when you see some professional storytellers on
stage, you're seeing the craft, and then you can say, but how can I adapt that into my
presentation? And it isn't necessary that you're going to stand up there and tell a folktale,
(25:12):
but you might use some premises of a folktale to weave.
I mean, the folktales teach. They were meant for teaching, the Grimm stories,
everything was meant for teaching.
There's fabulous fables and beautiful Native American stories that illustrate a point of feeling and empathy or
struggle in life, and everybody can connect to a struggle in life.
Andy Johns: That's true. I think you're right about that. (25:35):
undefined
I think that's great advice. Well, Debra, thanks so much for taking the time to join me on this
episode. Thanks so much for being willing to come share with our group at StoryConnect this year, as well.
Debra Weller: Yes, I'm looking forward to it. (25:45):
undefined
Andy Johns: Perfect. She is Debra Weller. She is the president of the Florida Storytelling Association and a professional storyteller. (25:47):
undefined
I'm your host Andy Johns with Pioneer.
And until we talk again, keep telling your story.
Outro: StoryConnect is produced by Pioneer Utility Resources, a communications cooperative that is built to share your story. (25:59):
undefined
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