Strategies for Getting Out of the TV Business, With Jason Cohen

Facing increasing costs and angry subscribers, many broadband providers are looking to drop TV service. Ending linear video service in a strategic way can leave customers and broadband providers in a better way—as long as it's done in a smart way.

Episode Transcript

Intro: A production of Pioneer Utility Resources. (00:05):
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StoryConnect, helping communicators discover ideas to shapetheir stories and connect with their customers.

Andy Johns: What are some strategies to take your video service over the top? (00:16):
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That's what we'll be talking about on this episode of TheStoryConnect Podcast.
My name is Andy Johns, your host with Pioneer, and I'm joined onthis episode by Jason Cohen, who is the CEO of MyBundle.
Jason, thanks so much for joining me.

Jason Cohen: Good to be here. Thanks for having me. (00:29):
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Andy Johns: So we are here live at the Calix ConneXions Conference here in Las Vegas. (00:30):
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So as we always say on these live episodes, anything you heargoing on in the background, it's not background noise, it's
ambiance. So I appreciate Calix letting us be here andappreciating Jason being on as well.
So your topic that you spoke on earlier today, you were on apanel.

Jason Cohen: Yes. (00:49):
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Andy Johns: And it was called "Video Strategies That Are Over the Top." And I know video, anytime we do an episode about the supposed death of (00:50):
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video or not death of video, we get a lot of folks listening.
So tell me a little bit about what y'all were covering today inthe panel.

Jason Cohen: Yeah. I think what's first, just a little funny aside. (01:02):
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Over the top, right.
We all in the industry is like, "Oh, that's streaming over thetop." A few years ago I was sharing with my sister-in-law like,
"Oh, what is this my bundle thing that you're doing?" And I'mlike, oh, explaining it.
And like, "We help people find over the top solutions." Andshe's looking at me like, "Why would anybody want something
that's over the top?" Thinking that like expensive, outrageous,unnecessary.

(01:25):
But I think that that's one of the pieces, or good example, ofthis whole streaming ecosystem of it's complicated, right?
And consumers don't necessarily know what we're talking about, what is streaming, etc.

Andy Johns: Well, I would argue with that case that Las Vegas is an entire city built on over the top. (01:39):
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Seems like everything here is a little bit over the top.

Jason Cohen: It is a great place to be having the conversation. (01:47):
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But yeah, but on the panel today what we really talked aboutwas, what should a broad, what is the job of a broadband provider
in this day and age when it comes to video?
Do they have to be the one providing the actual video solution?
Or can they, or is there a job to help their customers and theirshoppers figure out how to get the video that each customer

(02:10):
wants? We're biased, of course.
We think that's the new job, right?
This is about selling broadband.
Selling more broadband.
Keeping your customers happy.
And the economics of the video landscape have changed and,frankly, will continue to change where it becomes
less and less possible for a provider to just do the same oldthing they've always been doing.

Andy Johns: Right. And what are you hearing folks are doing? (02:32):
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I mean, we've had everybody on here.
One of the telcos that we talked to in North Alabama, they wereactually going and helping people install the over-the-air
antennas on top of their houses a few years ago.
What are you seeing right now that folks are looking at?
Are you still seeing a lot of folks getting out of video?
Are there still a lot of folks into it?
What kind of things are you seeing, given that's what you'relooking at every day?

Jason Cohen: Cool. So I think so, just like as a baseline, we've got about 270 broadband partners today that work with MyBundle. (02:55):
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About a third of them have their own video still.

Andy Johns: Okay. And when we say they have their own video. (03:03):
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Let's define that. Yeah.

Jason Cohen: They have their own branded cable television. (03:06):
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Andy Johns: Linear? (03:09):
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Jason Cohen: Whether it's linear. Right. (03:09):
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So whether it's traditional RF or it's a streaming version ofthe traditional product, it's what we call a legacy
traditional linear TV.
As far as the consumer, there's channel 26.
There's 152.
I've got a remote, and I could flip around.

Andy Johns: Right. (03:26):
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Jason Cohen: So what we're seeing more and more of as we all know, we've all seen the stories, consumers making the decision to move away. (03:26):
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What's also happening is the cost of that TV product is going upand up and up and up, and often the consumer, they don't blame
Disney or Fox or Viacom.
They think about their cable company as the raising those prices.

Andy Johns: The one who sends them a bill. Yeah. (03:44):
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Jason Cohen: And so I think what we see is so many, there's still TV providers that are profitable. (03:46):
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They charge a lot. Right.
And they're, but it's the constant rate hikes.
And so people are just saying "Like what am I doing?" Like whatam I doing here?
And so what we're seeing is certainly an increase of providersshutting down TV.

(04:06):
And that's kind of our message is like, we don't come in andsay, "You should shut down TV." But certainly if you're going to,
you should be doing it like we've got a whole bunch of ways tohelp.
We could get into that. But that's a little bit what we talkedabout is, whether you don't have TV or you have TV and you want
to offer alternatives. Just think about if you're a providerwith TV, every few months or every six months, you're sending
that rate hike. "Oh, we're sorry, it's not us.

(04:28):
It's the media companies."

Andy Johns: 2 or 3 times a year, it seems like now. (04:29):
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Jason Cohen: Right. And so think about that message like, okay, you're saying sorry, but you're still jamming the price up, right? (04:32):
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The consumer thinks you're the one jamming the price up.
But imagine if in that message you said, and there are otheralternatives to help you get your live, your locals, your sports,
your news, and we're going to be the ones to help you find that.
Now the consumer is like, wait a second, you're helping meswitch out my $140 video package for a $70 or $80 video

(04:58):
package? All of a sudden you go from the bad guy to the goodguy, and I think what the key is you don't have to do it
overnight. It's not all or nothing.
You don't have to shut off your TV.
You can still offer your TV for those who want it, but by beingable to offer a much cheaper way for your customers to get the
channels they want, you just turn that into and not just be thegood guy, but then like, hey, you're saving 40, 50, 60 bucks a

(05:25):
month. You know, you might want to hire internet speed, right?
What can you do there? So we see a lot of that is going to justcontinue to be the trend there.

Andy Johns: And I think that's the key point to, you know, when you get them on the streaming, then all of a sudden, you know, the faster (05:33):
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connection, which is where you can actually make money is, youknow, it becomes even more important.

Jason Cohen: Well, as I say, you're basically you have the ability if you're in the video business to trade low, zero, or even negative margin (05:43):
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revenue for 100% incremental margin, higher speed revenue.

Andy Johns: The key, I think, and as the session is called, is doing it strategically. (05:55):
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Obviously, you can't just overnight flip the switch and all of asudden everybody's, you know, video sets or, you know, TV boxes
go dark. We've seen a lot of folks still feel like they need tohave it.
And one of the things that we run into over and over again withthe folks that we're working on, especially folks that are coming

(06:17):
into a new area, is the existing provider there.
You know, usually one of the big national companies, they'vealready got a TV service, and they can make it to where if you
just drop the internet with them but keep cable, it justbecomes, you know, price prohibitive, cost prohibitive for them
to be able to do that.
So I know a lot of folks are feeling like they have to have somekind of offering, but there are ways, as you said, to do that

(06:41):
strategically and be smart about it.

Jason Cohen: Yeah. Well, I think at core it goes back to that first thing I said is like, what is your job? (06:44):
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Right. Let's say you're competing with a Comcast or a Charter.
Let's make them the boogeyman right in this story.
And they have their double plays.
And by the way, they care less about video than they ever didbefore, which is leading them to raise prices like never before
also. So my perspective is, okay, you want to compete with them?

(07:06):
You have a prospect who wants video.
It's going to cost you $140 to serve them video.
It's going to cost Hulu Live $86.
It's going to cost Fubo $90.
It's going to cost Sling $40, YouTube TV $74-75.
Ultimately, and those prices obviously are changing all thetime, but ultimately you're going to sell more broadband.

(07:29):
If you can package your broadband plus $80, then your broadbandplus $140 now.
Okay, that's a cool idea, but how do I do it?
Obviously, that's really the core, where we started with ourFind My Bundle tool.
The idea is ask every single shopper, every customer whatchannels are important to you, and each one is going to

(07:50):
have their own service that's right for them.
And that's where we, that's kind of why, you know, the broadbandproviders partner with us because they should be focusing on
broadband, not trying to keep up with prices and this and that.
And so the nice thing is we can do it.
Our system handles it all.
We track all the changes, and since we co-brand it all for allof our partners, each one of those providers, each one of our

(08:12):
partners, has their version of My Bundle, and they can focus onbroadband as opposed to that video.

Andy Johns: I know this is something that you're spending all day, every day into and obviously like you acknowledged earlier, you do have (08:19):
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have some biases there.
But let's get out the crystal ball, you know, where do you seethis going?
You know, Netflix has continued to go up.
I think Disney+ went up.
There are bundles where folks are getting their Hulu and theirDisney+ with their cell phones.
You know, streaming TV has been around a while, but it's stillkind of the wild, wild West in some ways to just kind of folks

(08:43):
figuring out norms.
Where do you see it going? Where do you think we are with withstreaming TV in two, three, four, five years?

Jason Cohen: Yeah. So just some numbers, right? (08:49):
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At peak, there were 100 million cable and satellite householdsin the country.

Andy Johns: Okay. (08:56):
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Jason Cohen: This is 2016, let's say. (08:56):
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Fast forward to now, 2024, that 100 million has basically gonedown to 68 million.
Okay. Of those 68 million, 18 million of them are streamingtheir live TV.
So they're using some either YouTube TV or Hulu Live [inaudible].

(09:16):
We call them virtual MVPSs.
There are less than probably, as we sit here in October, lessthan 50 million households that have facilities
based cable or satellite.
Meaning I get my cable from my – so we're down 50% on that.
Now depending on if you are an operator, I'd argue this is thebest thing that ever happened, right?
Like that's kind of the core of this.

(09:38):
If you're a broadband provider, man, the more streaming servicesthere are, the better.
The more options there are, the better.
All prices are going up.
So like you mentioned, the streaming services are going up, butso are cable prices, right.
Content video is definitely going up.
Where do I see this heading though is first of all, that's still50 million people that have traditional TV.

(09:59):
The average bill $120, $130.
You start adding, you know, I'm going to do some really quick,like that's about $70 billion of monthly cable fees.
That's a lot of money that is going to move over to streaming.
So, you know, the streaming industry themselves are trying tofigure out how to make money.
And ultimately, where do we think it's going?

(10:20):
Like we called the company MyBundle because from day one, ourvision was that it was always going to be each one of us,
everybody walking around these halls.
We each have our own needs.
We each have our own wants. We're all going to have our ownbundle of streaming services.
It's a mess, right?
Like, I've got eight streaming services.
I don't know how many streaming services do you have?

Andy Johns: I was just counting, counting through. (10:38):
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So baseball season just ended, so I'm losing one there.
I probably got probably 6 or 7.
Yeah, probably right about where you are.

Jason Cohen: And so one is tracking it. (10:45):
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Two is, you know, the next level down is actually contentdiscovery.
Right. So I've got these six services and like, all right I gethome, and I want to watch something.
Do I go to Netflix first?
Then I go to Amazon, maybe then Hulu.
Am I really going to the third, fourth or fifth?
But there's a lot of good content on there.
I wish there was a better way to discover it all.
Well, that's what I said 2 or 3 years ago, and then we built it,right?

(11:05):
So we built our MyBundle mobile app that again gets co-brandedfor all of our broadband partners.
And we think that is a component of like, if you're a broadbandprovider, even if you're in video, 30% of your customers have
video, 20%.
That means 70 or 80% of your customers are broadband only.
They are all suffering the same problems you and I are.

(11:26):
Like, how do I watch the game?
How do I subscribe?
Okay, I've got these services help me find new content.
And so ultimately we view our job, always our job to be done, isto help consumers discover that content,
bundle, buy those streaming services.
And so again, the other side of our business really is workingwith the streaming services to integrate into them, to be able to

(11:49):
do bundle. So there's a lot of things that I believe this iswhere it's heading.
And I'm, not me personally, but our whole team is working hardto bring the various components
together to really create that solution, to just simplify itall.

Andy Johns: It's funny that you talked about that. (12:05):
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I was talking to a coworker not too long ago, maybe a month ortwo ago, and he was saying, you know, it's so frustrating to know
what's on what channels.
And somebody ought to come up with a publication that, like,told you every week what was on what TV, what time, you know,
what channel. And I was like, congratulations, you just inventedTV guide.

Jason Cohen: Well, so it's funny you say that. (12:22):
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And obviously, the viewers at home won't be able to see this,but like our app on MyBundle, you know, they'll see your reaction
here. But like the idea here is like ultimately.
And I'll hold it up to the camera.
Right. But the idea is you tell it what apps you have, and we'reshowing you now all the shows and all the movies and create a
watch list and get recommendations from friends.

(12:43):
And it is a personalized streaming TV guide.
And it's constantly live, and it's a better version of thatmagazine that used to be on the TV.
Ultimately, what we think is really cool is tying it into thebroadband provider, offering promotions,
sign up for internet and get a year of your choice of Paramount,Peacock or Hulu.

(13:07):
Or upgrade and get $15 of streaming credits a month for yourfirst six months.
And so what we're doing is empowering the broadband provider to,especially smaller guys who never did gift cards but would love
to, like never did promo because like, how do you do it?
How do you operationalize that?And we figured out, we built itourselves, and we manage that.
And we work hand in hand with each broadband provider.

(13:29):
And so they're now giving away those cards.
We have a deal with Roku where people can give away Roku, shipthem to the house.
So there's just a lot of like, we're constantly thinking, howcan we help those broadband?
How can we help our partners do the things that the marketingteam sit there and like, oh, man, you know, it'd be awesome if I
can give away a streaming service.

(13:49):
Well, cool. Now we're making it happen.
And so that's where we view our role is.
And again, frankly, it's easy, now that we have as many partnersas we have.
I don't have to come up with new ideas, right?
Our partners –

Andy Johns: Somebody. Yeah. (14:00):
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Jason Cohen: Our marketing people. The sales people. (14:00):
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Every day, every day, every couple of days, we're getting a newidea from one of our partners, like, can we do this?
And, you know, 95% of the time the answer is yes, which isgreat.

Andy Johns: I may be putting you on the spot a little bit here. (14:14):
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Going back to those numbers, a lot of the folks listening arefolks in the rural markets.
Are you seeing anything different in those numbers?
Do the rural markets behave any differently than the metro andsuburban markets, or is everybody kind of in the same boat?
Or have you seen anything that indicates that folks are more orless likely out in the rural areas?

Jason Cohen: No, I think, I think let's say adjusting for demographics, I think the average 80 year old is going to be more likely to have (14:36):
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cable than the average 30 year old.

Andy Johns: Makes sense. (14:44):
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Jason Cohen: I think that from what we understand from our partners, though, the average 60, 70, 80 year old right might be like hesitant. (14:45):
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But what's super cool is that you know what's really motivating?
Saving money.

Andy Johns: It's true. Whether you're 30 or whether you're 80. (14:58):
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Jason Cohen: That's right. Exactly. Yes. (15:00):
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But this idea of, you know, what's the job of the broadbandprovider?
A lot of our partners hosting weekly streaming 101 classes.

Andy Johns: I've seen a few of those. (15:12):
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Jason Cohen: And you get 40, 50, 60 people down to the library. (15:13):
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And again, whether you have video or not, right, our tools play.
And so now we actually help our, we give our partners thematerial.
So we're sort of empowering their agents, their reps to be thesestreaming geniuses.
And if you imagine instead of having 60 individualconversations, you could spend 15 minutes walking through, here's

(15:35):
what streaming is. Here's a Roku device.
It's really not that scary.
Here's how much you can save.
And then at the end of that class, actually run each personthrough the Find MyBundle tool.
That's our TV recommendation tool, so that each person now walksout of there saying like, "Oh, I can get my local news through
this. And I just, I don't need, you know what?
I don't need my locals.

(15:56):
I really just need history and A&E and Lifetime and Game ShowNetwork and Weather Channel." Well, that's friendly TV that costs
$8 a month, right?
"Oh, but I also need my Food and my Discovery, HGTV." Okay.
That's Philo. That's $28.
"But what about Fox News?" Okay.
That's Sling. That's 40.
All of these numbers I just gave is substantially less.

(16:17):
And even if you need your. So the point is, is it's scarybecause people here sometimes streaming, and they're like, "Oh
what do I do with that?" The other piece I'll just say is, Ithink more and more, right, 80-85% of the country has Netflix.
Okay. So if you have Netflix, you kind of like, how are youwatching that Netflix?

Andy Johns: It's a familiar concept, right? (16:35):
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Jason Cohen: And so ultimately I think you got that. (16:36):
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And again, just tying it back to what you said before, what doesthis all look like as more and more of the content continues to
shift to streaming, like then you get the more people willing, even if you're that 70 year old who's only had cable or
satellite their whole life, you start looking at the prices andyou say, "You know what?
That's a lot of savings.

(16:57):
It's worth learning."

Andy Johns: Worth learning. (16:58):
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Jason Cohen: "What to do." Listen, my I remember as a kid, my grandmother, you know, used to watch her stories, right? (16:59):
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Days of Our Lives, whatever it was.
And every time I'd visit her in Florida on winter break, I'd belike.
"Oh, got to go set that VCR," right.
So that to record the shows.
So like this is not – change is not new.
The technology has been changing for a long time.

(17:21):
This is just another version of it.

Andy Johns: True. (17:23):
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Jason Cohen: And the only difference, really, from an operator standpoint, is that the internet and software has enabled so many more things (17:24):
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that just weren't possible in the past.
And I would say across the board, just to be like when we seethose rural, those rural co-ops, especially again, the private
companies also care about their customers.
But it's been incredibly heartening, right, about seeing howco-ops really lean into, like, that white glove service.

(17:50):
And they want to go into that home and set up a Roku and like,cool.
Then that person knows how to do it.
Like this stuff works.
It's just going that little bit extra to really care about yourcustomer.
And we're seeing it, we're seeing it work.
So like, I'll just give one last example like the in a TVshutdown case, we had a partner in a rural area.

Andy Johns: Meaning where they're canceling linear video service? (18:11):
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Jason Cohen: They had their own TV service. (18:14):
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And they're just like, "Ah, this just doesn't work anymore." Itwasn't worth the trouble.
And they had 800 video subscribers, and they're like.
All right, obviously, what's the problem?
And you figure you're going to lose some broadband subs.
By doing it the right way, which is sending out emails, sendingout letters, holding these classes.
That provider lost three broadband customers out of the 800 byusing our program.

(18:38):
Our partners who are doing this, they're giving streamingcredits.
Some of them are paying their customers.
Cancel my video and we'll give you X, Y, or Z.
So we really, actually we now know it works.
And so ultimately, again, what's exciting is having providers dodifferent things and learning and cross learning from all of
them.

Andy Johns: And you touched on a couple of things I was going to ask there about how to get folks to do that, because like you said, it's a (18:59):
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change when you flip channels like this for that many years totry to get folks to learn how to do something different.
But it sounds like there are a lot of ways to strategically dothat.
That kind of brings me to my last question here.
And I usually end the the podcast with asking for what's youradvice for folks.

(19:20):
So what advice do you have maybe for somebody who's sittingthere, aside from signing up for MyBundle TV immediately, what
advice do you have for somebody who's looking at it, like you'resaying with the numbers?
And this just doesn't make sense.
We need to make a change.
What advice from a strategic standpoint do you have for them interms of winding that service down and like you said, having
those kind of results would be pretty amazing to only lose threeout of 800?

(19:43):
What advice do you have for folks?

Jason Cohen: Yeah, it's hard, the easy answer, of course you took off the table. (19:44):
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Give us a call.

Andy Johns: That's why I'm a good interviewer, right? (19:49):
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Jason Cohen: No, I think more. (19:50):
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I'll take a step back. Right.
Once you make the decision, and I'll say this in all seriousness, once you're making the decision, it's crazy for you
not to call us. Like, that's an easy one.
The question, the strategic question, you have to ask yourselfis, should I get out of TV, or should I stay in TV?
So if I could take it up a level there.
And I think there is, the first question is like, are youcompeting with a big cable company?

(20:14):
So if you are competing with a big cable company, it's adifferent series of questions versus if you're the only game in
town. Right?

Andy Johns: I can see that. (20:21):
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Jason Cohen: I think also it's the demographic question. (20:22):
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It's where you are in the investment cycle.
So if you have a coax kind of, it's called old school TV, andyou're like, the costs are killing you, right?
Oh, I can upgrade, and I could turn this into a streamingversion of my own TV.
Well, what's that going to cost?
What's the payback?
What do you think things are going to look like three years fromnow?

(20:43):
And is there?
Right. Like, ultimately, man, that was a great, the fact that weonly lost three, that they lost three broadband subs.
Amazing. If they would have lost 20 or 50 or what's the numberthat it would have been worth it because at some point, right,
like at some point, there's a real cost to running a TV service.
So I think ultimately, what is my competitive dynamics?

(21:08):
And then really just ultimately it's what am I doingstrategically?
What I'd be asking myself is, what am I doing for my broadbandonly customers, right?
Nobody talks about them.
Everyone's focus is on the 20, the squeaky wheels.
But I have those video customers, or broadband only customers,how can I deepen my relationship with them?
How can I get more marketing?

(21:29):
How can I build that relationship?
That's what I'd encourage people to think about.

Andy Johns: Excellent. I think that's good advice all the way around. (21:33):
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Jason, thanks so much for joining me.

Jason Cohen: This is awesome. Thank you very much. (21:37):
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Andy Johns: He is Jason Cohen. (21:39):
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He is the CEO of MyBundle.
And I'm your host Andy Johns.
Thanks to Justin Bell for shooting from Kanokla for shootingkind of a wide angle for us on this episode.
You didn't know we had two angles.

Jason Cohen: I hope. Well, he told me, which is my good side. (21:51):
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I knew he was. I flipped it around.

Andy Johns: They got all the good sides you have. (21:55):
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Jason Cohen: All the good sides. (21:56):
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Andy Johns: Yeah. Perfect. Jason, thanks so much. (21:57):
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Jason Cohen: Thank you very much. (21:59):
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Andy Johns: I'm your host, Andy Johns. (22:00):
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And until we talk again, keep telling your story.

Outro: StoryConnect is produced by Pioneer Utility Resources, a communications cooperative that is built to share your story. (22:04):
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