April 25, 2019 • 37 mins
Playworkers Ali Wood and Jill Wood talk about adventure playgrounds and the importance of free-play and risk-taking in a child’s development. Adventure playgrounds are environments where children create their own worlds and build their own play space with a variety of tools and scrap material: lumber, hammers, nails, house paint, yards of fabric, pallets, wooden crates, and plenty of time and freedom. On these sites, children are supported by adults trained in the professional practice of playwork, a unique approach that puts the child’s ideas and objectives first.
Resources:
Where to buy Ali Wood’s book “Reflective Playwork”
Jill Wood’s Articles on Adventure Play:
More info on Bayou City Play:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Unbabbled, a podcast that
navigates the world of specialeducation, communication delays
and learning differences.
We are your hosts, StephanieLandis and Meredith Krimmel and
we are certified speech andlanguage pathologist who spend
our days at The Parish School inHouston, helping children find
their voices and connect withthe world around them.
(00:26):
Meredith couldn't be here today,so this is Stephanie Flying
Solo.
Today I'll be speaking withplayworkers Ali Wood and Jill
Wood.
Allie has over 20 years ofexperience supporting children
through play.
She is co manager of theMeridian adventure playground in
the United Kingdom and coauthorof the reflective play, work and
instructional guide for parentsand playworkers that promotes
the role of play in a child'slife.
(00:47):
Jill Wood is the head of theadventure playground at The
Parish School in Houston, Texasand founder of, Bayou City Play,
a series of temporary playinstallations that spread out
all over the Houston area.
Ali and Jill will be telling usabout each of their adventure
playgrounds and sharing storiesfrom their personal experiences.
They'll also explain why they'reso passionate about playwork and
discuss the importance of playand risk taking in a child's
(01:10):
development.
Welcome.
Today, I'm excited to be joinedby Ali Wood and Jill Wood.
Ali Wood is a Playworker andshe's here in Houston for the
Campference that we're hostinghere at The Parish School.
So welcome.
We're very excited to have you.
Will you first just start off bygiving just a little bit about
(01:32):
yourself, where you're from andwhat you do?
So a small, small little, Ithought everything about you,
Huh?
Okay.
Ali (01:41):
Um, yes I am a Playworker but I have a lot of that kind of
easily quite wide ranging andhow it's applied in practice.
So I actually do, um, co- managean adventure playground country
in England in a very poor area.
But I also write aboutPlayworks.
(02:02):
I research, um, uh, and over theyears or have trained lots of
the people I went and designedand delivered qualifications in
play, work, et cetera.
So it's all quite wide rangingand um, a lot of fun.
Stephanie (02:17):
So we have been actively bringing a adventure
playground and playwork hereinto The Parish School.
And Jill Wood, our librarian andplayworker also has been doing a
lot of work within the Houstoncommunity, but sadly it's not as
well known in the US and in ourarea is it is overseas.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what playwork is and your
(02:40):
adventure playground?
Ali (02:41):
Okay.
Firstly I will say that theadventure playground here, if
you don't know or cannot see isbeautiful.
It's really wonderful.
It's a place where you can tellthe children are really truly
being themselves.
Um, my playground is similar butdifferent.
But then adventure playgroundsare unique and shizzy because
(03:01):
they reflect the childrenthemselves that goes to this
because the children help makethem, build them, create them,
do their stuff.
And then, um, the one where I amand it's in a very core area,
it's got quite a lot of big highstructures.
There's a lot of risk taking.
We have a big fire pit.
Um, we cook on the fire everyday and we feed the children
(03:23):
every day because most of themare hungry.
Um, because many parents are atwork or whatever.
It is a very poor area.
Um, and as to what Playworks is,right?
playwork is perhaps the onlyprofession I think of people
working with children wherethere is a flattening of the
(03:44):
hierarchy.
So, um, so the, the, the adults,the adult playworker and the
child are, are really exactly onthe same level.
And the playworker, uh, believesin the capability and competency
of every child that is expressedthrough their playing.
When they're, when children areplaying, it's perhaps the time
(04:06):
when they feel most alive, mostfree, um, most competent.
And it's where they can take,they can take risks, they can
make mistakes, they can findout, they can explore, et
Cetera, et cetera.
And so the job of a playworkeris to support that.
And sometimes that meanscreating the space where that
(04:28):
can happen, but it also meanspulling away and allowing them
that space to make thosemistakes, to try things out and
to explore for themselves.
Whether that's socially, youknow, in terms of making a
breaking friendships, whetherthat's physically in terms of
what can I do, can I get upthere?
Can I fall down there?
(04:48):
What will happen if I do?
Um, emotionally, how does itfeel to be like this?
Can I really, can I be angrytoday?
Because quite a lot of the timewe suppressed children's anger.
We don't give them a chance toexplore it and deal with it and
make it a creative force intheir lives.
Um, intellectually, because Ithink a adventure, playgrounds
(05:09):
and places where children,they're almost like natural
research of origins there whenthat child becomes a scientist.
And so, you know, I've watchedsome of your children deal
yesterday on this, the, whatwe're call it, a sun piece.
I call it the sun dome and thehoses in there and the absolute
absorption and immersion inthese kids and working out
(05:32):
what's happening.
It's almost like they're naturalphysicists.
Um, it's, uh, it's fascinating.
Absolutely fascinating.
So playworkers spend a lot oftime creating space if he's
awesome spacing and thenwatching and learning and
supporting children to be free.
Stephanie (05:48):
I love that.
I think that to me, coming froma speech pathology Lens, we see
play as equally as important tobuilding a child's overall
development.
But you're right and sometimesit's much more structured for us
and sometimes we jump in andlike, oh maybe we should play
more like this.
And I love that from theplaywork point of view, all play
(06:09):
is, you know, kind of equallyimportant.
And for parents and for otheradults sometimes that's really
hard to let kids explore that.
It's hard to let them takerisks.
It's hard to let them exploreall those emotions.
I know that you have a book thatdiscusses reflective play,
where, can you speak a littlebit about what that kind of
(06:30):
means and what that reflection?
Ali (06:33):
okay.
I think the lowest peoplewouldn't, like when you talk
about reflective practice, and Iask a lot of people is I say,
what does that mean?What it'sabout looking back and seeing
something he went yes.
And whether we can do it betternext time.
And I'll say that's theevaluation.
Yeah, that's fleet.
It's about why she's a part ofit.
(06:55):
Let you live.
It's just a small part.
So the reflective use, itactually does what it says on
the tin.
If you think of something thatreflect what reflects an object
that reflect back at you, it's amovement.
And so actually what we do is weare taking the mirror because
when children look like, and ithas all sorts of impact on us.
Um, whoever we are, we haveautomatic triggers just like we
(07:19):
all have it.
And the playworkers have them aswell.
We're not just all sort of, it'dbe fine.
Stephanie (07:25):
Yeah.
You're like, oh, maybe weshouldn't.
But that's your own personal.
Ali (07:31):
That's right.
And so, so the idea ofreflective practice is that he
also turns, turns the light onourselves to say, why am I
feeling, why is it that that kidwants me up?
You know, why is it that I'manxious when I see children
doing that?
Um, why is it that I find myselfreally wanting to do this and
not wanting to do that?
(07:51):
Why is it though I just saidthat or why is it that I didn't
do that?
So it turns the spotlight on usreally because um, as we
understand them cause adultsquite often unintentionally are
the biggest barrier tochildren's free play because we
involved ourselves or we thinkwe know better and actually
(08:14):
plays the one area wherechildren, yeah.
Stephanie (08:17):
That's fair.
That's their work.
I know you touched on emotionsexcel hard for initially parents
and teachers and therapists,they see kids and the playground
getting into even just a smartargument about who goes first
and instinctually they want tojump in and fix it.
But that's such a natural wayfor them to learn problem
solving abilities and to workout that social give intake and
(08:42):
how can we still work throughthis and be friends and you
know, sometimes jumping in toofast, I know I need to jump in.
It hinders them developing thosesituations later when maybe an
adult isn't around.
So instead of through it theyjust run away.
And look for an adult's and playand on the playground is a
perfect place for them topractice that you see?
(09:04):
Yeah.
Because it is a totallydifferent way of looking at play
and play grounds and yourplayground.
Yeah.
Uh, ours is on a private schoolcampus so it's not open to the
public very often.
Is yours more open to thepublic?
Ali (09:18):
We do.
Um, after school it's open onall day on a Saturday, it's open
every day of school holidays.
We also have school groups thatcome and visit us during the
daytime at school term time andpupil referral groups and uh,
still, um, and we are, we are acharity or that's this is,
(09:40):
that's the sign was a not forprofit thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's okay.
So we're a charity so we managethe whole thing so we don't own
the land, we lease it from thelocal authority, uh, and it's
fenced off cause it's locatedwithin a public park.
Yes.
That's right.
Um, and it will, we, although weleased the land, they've kind of
(10:03):
given us permission to do more.
This whole holding on, which youneed to frame terribly crowd.
Stephanie (10:08):
That's amazing.
And did the parents come joinwhen it's afterschool?
Ali (10:14):
We have, we have um, uh, kind of, uh, sort of ruiling
that.
Yes, there is a rule that saysif you're under 7, you need to
have a carer that comes or aparent with them.
Um, if you're seven and underthen parents can give permission
permission for them to comealone and many do.
(10:34):
Yeah.
Um, but some parents of olderchildren still want to come as
well.
Uh, and quite a lot of parentsactually volunteer their time
and services.
They help us maintainstructures.
They help cooking with cooking.
They help on plays games andallergies.
I help out.
I helped raise money becausewe're always trying to raise
money and um, and I'm quite alot of parents, Um, have also
(10:56):
learned about how play can beimportant in their own mind.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's what I was going to say.
You have the benefit of havingthe parents, they are watching
it.
Have you had many stories orfeedback of how parents shifted
their play or their own child?
Ali (11:10):
All the time.
I just as you come to the gateabout there's a kind of a, a
structure that's probably ashigh as the ceiling in this
room.
So not too high or low.
It's high for a playground.
Yeah.
Um, so, but this particularstructure, the children would
like to jump off onto crashmats.
Stephanie (11:30):
Yeah, that would freat parents out.
Ali (11:31):
When they're younger they kind of just jump off.
And sometimes you can see too,when you just stunning it, why
do you then pull it out?
We can't do it yet.
To the other kids.
That's okay.
But as they get older and theyget bigger, and then of course
the, the risks need to get thekids, somersault off stuff, you
know, and when heroines firstseat, so, but then the free cam
(11:53):
and I think terribly dangerousand we say, well, I changed, you
know, in 10 years we've neverhad an accident.
And that, that's the first thingthat surprises them because they
think it's, it's almost a giventhat it will do.
Yeah.
Um, and, and so we talk about,we actually ask them to watch,
(12:14):
just watch the other childrenjumping and see what I can see
the children are getting out ofit and how much they're enjoying
it and how much there I have tosay learning probably as well
because children do learn.
That's not why they play, butthey do learn from their
playing.
Um, and sometimes we will standthere and we'll have a word with
parents because she gets someparents who go the other way and
(12:34):
start saying, okay, come on,jump off.
Don't be a wuss.
And we're going, no, no, no, youdon't do that.
It's their decision.
It's the child's decision and ifthey're not ready, don't push
them.
And then you get the otherparents who stands, they say,
Oh, are you alright?
And we say, no, no, no, leavethat be because otherwise your
(12:59):
projecting your fear onto themand then the child becomes less
competent and more likely tohurt themselves.
So we thought we have sometimesbang patrons from certain days
because we discovered thatactually it was the parents fear
if you like, it was kind ofinfluencing the children.
They were ending not havingaccidents.
And as soon as we with parentsto stop.
(13:22):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So we do, we do interfere a lotmore.
Is that Austin we think we dooften for what seems like really
good reasons, but they're not,yeah, it's just a whole shift.
It's a whole shift.
It's a whole new mind shift andit's quite, quite hard.
One of the ways for people tounderstand it I think, or to get
(13:45):
get into it is to alwaysremember back when my client and
um, and that's where we alwaysstart with, okay, try and
remember where you were and whatyou did and how you felt and you
believe in what you were doingif you weren't doing anything at
all and how you feltparticularly.
And then people, suddenly youstood suddenly see the grins and
(14:05):
people start and then you signhigh.
So what was common about allthese experiences?
And I also, it's freedom.
It's freedom.
Stephanie (14:15):
It is because you hear so many people talking
about though.
Well, when I was a kid, we justwent in the backyard and built
this and like personally I grewup with cousins on a farm and
we'd go like jump off of HayBales in the barn and it was
freedom to explore the farm anddo whatever and have that yeah.
Exploration that we could buildand manipulate and play and raom
(14:38):
and the family.
Anybody interfering or we, we dohave, I think what's been going
for quite a long time.
Um, yeah.
Ali (14:46):
But um, a lot of the research that has been done in
the last or 20, 30, 40 years,that back-up, that's approach
for a lot of the research of ourchildren's freedom to apply.
He's really, really interesting.
And um, there are that, there isresearch coming forward that
shows the, actually the morethat we did, are you familiar
(15:07):
with the term helicopter parent,um, or harboring, we call
hovering.
What are the, um, the more ofthat that happens actually in
the more delayed a child'sdevelopment is because actually
they don't get chance chances tobe doing stuff for themselves to
be becoming independent people.
Stephanie (15:28):
Yeah.
So simple as tying your own shoewear, keeping washing your own
hair and yeah, playing on theplayground, climbing up really
high, going really fast on yourbike.
Yeah.
These are all important lessonsthough.
Yeah.
Ali (15:44):
There a low normal [inaudible] own experiences, but
suddenly I've got less and lessbecause we've become too
protective.
Stephanie (15:52):
I know you touched on a little bit, um, about learning
from the play and it seems likeevery toy in your, every
educational experience now hasto be learning.
Like it's marketed.
Like you must use this toybecause it's going to teach you
phonetics so that you can read,you have to use this toy because
that's what it'll teach you, thefine motors that you could do
(16:12):
this.
Can you touch a little bit onone play being great for playing
experience and two how you canstill develop those skills
through free.
Play it off.
Okay.
Ali (16:24):
Um, this might sound extreme.
Tell me, tell me.
I'm going to far.
But I'm a bit cynical abouttools.
Yes.
No, I agree.
I see the toy industry actually,it doesn't really kill them that
children grow the revolutiondecide house.
No.
Electronic Toys.
(16:44):
Yeah.
And I think annoying and it kindof takes away some creativity.
Yeah.
Um, and it does.
Absolutely it does.
And also I think, uh, I don'tknow if, do you have advertising
for children's toys andmerchandise here?
Oh yeah.
You must to.
Yes.
Cause she did, but he'd actuallyonly become legal in the UK, but
(17:05):
30 years ago.
Okay.
Um, and um, that we suddenly sawthings start to change because
when you advertise directly tochildren that children get
convinced they want that thing,they need that.
And very often when they've gotit, um, and I want it because
they got an order.
It's not what my thought in thebill as a short life.
(17:27):
It doesn't show it off.
And yet often they cost lots ofmoney.
And so parents are struggling tobuy things.
I think that children reallywant lead because of the
industry.
It looks up, we, we'll need it.
I don't think we necessarily do
Stephanie (17:41):
people joke after holidays and birthdays that the
kids wanting to play with thebox more than me saying, yeah,
it's true.
It's true of children.
Ali (17:50):
You is, you can do far more.
Um, we think was that done halfa self builtin purpose, you
know, which some of these toyshalf you can do far more and you
know, if he had trouble thesechildren, what suicide actually.
Okay, can you give me a bookhere?
That piece of road, a tarphauling, uh, and, and some balls
(18:11):
to play with me.
I wouldn't do that.
But actually thought of thosesorts of things are available.
They'll come up with in varietypossible games.
We know that those things, mostof which cost very little,
nothing got resolved in thefirst lesson.
And that's the beauty I think ofsaying let's, let's dispense
with tall use.
(18:31):
You know, I'm not going to sayall toys are rubbish.
Um, but I mean a bike, I thinkis wonderful.
Yeah, absolutely.
Having bikes and stuff scape itan awful, yeah, but a lot of the
stuff is not, is not made notnecessarily, and actually having
stuff, natural stuff and reusestuff that children can just do
(18:52):
it.
They like me.
It's amazing watching, watchinghim work at, at sorted out and
make sense of it.
I thought it's, yeah, it is.
Stephanie (19:03):
And as you mentioned, they are a little scientists out
there.
The best way to learn aboutphysics is to go out and build
things and make catapults andsee-saws and live it the whole
body experience and try and failand try again in
Ali (19:21):
In Jill's park here, there is a a wonderful big, is it
water pipe?
The enormous, the black oh yeah.
It's, it's a cover.
It's just a big black plasticcover.
Yeah.
From, from a coma and it's uh,probably like five feet.
Um, but what she, some of theseolder, older children play with
(19:44):
that yesterday, moving it aroundthe side, getting in it,
walking, walking in[inaudible]and making it move around so
that they go upside down andbackwards and all the rest of it
and trying to climb on it thentrying to make it and go certain
directions and then finally theycan't do that and it's got this,
it's just just that on its own.
And yet who would have thoughtthat piece of covert pipe would
(20:07):
be so fascinating and yet theyspend nearly an hour and a half.
Yeah.
And she has to do lose pipe likesix times a month they do with
that.
So it never gets old.
Yeah.
It has this long extended lifechildren just why to understand
the world and do that through inthe stuff to play with and it
(20:33):
is, it was absolutely lovely tojust sit and watch these
children, Mr doing nothing andthey don't need, I mean it's
lovely because I could also seethe staff that are here, they've
got really good relationshipswith the children but they don't
force that on them.
But they are there for them ifneeded.
(20:55):
And then the children's songs,songs and both you, yeah,
they'll come and ask me stuffbut it's a different
relationship than a teacherbecause awesome.
When they, they know that I cankind of do almost whatever they
like because that permission yousay and not safe to use that
emotional decided to do that.
But I haven't got to keep themin and say, Oh, I thought that
(21:17):
that might have, I can just tryand lift the stock just to pull
them.
Stephanie (21:23):
They have, we have very, as we've just said, very
intuitive and very thoughtfulplaywork staff here.
I've, they come and support ourkids during even just recess
time sometimes during the week.
And it's been amazing to watchthem just move a bucket and play
(21:44):
something else closer to aspecific child.
And then that child that hadbeen having difficulty joining a
different play suddenly was partof the play around the bucket
and that was out without evenwords and direction and you
know, stopping the child andsaying, Hey, come play with
this.
Or going up to the other kidsand saying like, stop not
(22:04):
playing with this child.
Maybe you should play that game.
It was just the lightest touch.
That's what you guys use, right?
The legacy side.
Ali (22:13):
You want to use willing to, to, um, because actually to have
that kind of intuition comeswith crafting sweep and it's
quite hard.
It's got real depth.
Yeah.
You know, to, to, to actuallykind of see the world through
that child's own and he's, andtherefore get an appreciation of
what it is they're trying to do.
What did he say one, what ledyou to do that and not being
(22:34):
able to just use this so
Stephanie (22:37):
it was so smooth and, yeah, watching from the outside
as an adult, I could see wherethey were going, but the kids
were so wrapped up in their ownplay, but they were just like,
oh, a bucket.
I'll go there.
And it was just exactly whatthat child needed to join into
that group play and have thatconfidence and then to start
building without the adultsforcing like that's social
(22:58):
interaction naturally on theirown.
Yeah, it was quite brilliant towatch.
Ali (23:03):
Great.
You see that will be quite adifferent way of looking at it.
Stephanie (23:09):
Um, I noticed that you got at your adventure
playgrounds, you guys haveworked with another charity and
another organization to bring inpeople with different abilities
and learning differences andother things.
Can you speak about how thatplay might change?
I know that some parents mightfeel like, oh, my child has
motor difficulties or they havethese challenges.
(23:32):
This might be too much for them.
But you guys bring it in andmake it accessible.
Ali (23:36):
Yes.
We originally started off, um,by having a partner, she
believes very concerned thoughyou sort of organization who
works specifically disciplecomes with a whole range of
different impediments, things ofall ages.
And so initially those childrenstarted coming with one to one
key workers, et cetera.
(23:58):
Um, but very often thosechildren end up coming alone on
their own because once they findtheir fit and the other kids,
because you get regular cubesare just so used to kids of all
kinds being about.
And it's just not, it's not anissue at all.
And so they ended up makingfriends with other kids.
And I was telling the storyyesterday, I've, uh, there's,
(24:20):
there's, uh, who's a young mannow.
He's, he's almost 19.
And he first started coming tous when he was about eight or
nine, and, uh, he was autistic.
He had very challengingbehavior, had no fan of, very,
very difficult to relate to twoother kids, et cetera.
Um, but periodically it is now10 years later, he pops in and
(24:43):
really pops in the, uh, he comesin, he goes hi to the people on
the desk, and then he walks downto the big leggings swing at the
other end of the playground,which is really hard.
And for some reason hisparticular competency was
always, he got the reputationfor being able to go to the
highest the Mq has ever gone to.
(25:05):
Alright.
And he did, but he just knewthat bit where if not to go any
higher, you know.
Um, and so he comes in and allthose 19 comes in and goes down
there and I think goes to haveit.
It's almost like the whiteparts.
All the kids get them off.
You know, Jack, it's Jack andJack[inaudible] and he does
towards, or anyone done, it justgets on and he almost looks the
(25:28):
loop and then he gets off andthen he smiled a little kids and
says northern one day and thenhe leaves.
It doesn't delete tat my fix andhe's gotten, you know, so yeah,
he's a, we actually have a lotof autistic children who have
been excluded from schoollocally.
So we actually have an, I'vebeen homeschooled by their
(25:50):
parents who sometimes at theirwits end.
So we have quite a lot of themcoming in all day time as well.
Um, and we actually find thatparticularly for children with
Adhd or autism, that actuallythe adventure playground is
almost like the perfect placefor them because there's no
structure.
They're not being forced intoanything.
And that's where they kind offind it wrong modus operandi.
(26:12):
Um, and they actually start toget on with each other and talk
to each other in a way thatsometimes the school sets up
just never suited them.
It was too structured for them.
Um, so yeah, you'd be kind ofworks.
And so we have new childrencoming up the time by Sun Lowe
and young people as well.
No, they bring down young peopleone night a week and it just
(26:35):
blossoms.
Jill (26:36):
I love hearing about how much a part of the community
your playground is when, um,when you talk about homeschool
families or groups, it justseems like it's the center of
(26:58):
life for a lot of
Ali (27:00):
Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
It was, it's there, right?
It's actually not as hard as Iactually call it.
[inaudible].
Um, I'm originally, we started aplayground, you know, just for
children, six to 13.
And that was what we started aschildren, six to 13.
It's my note to the grave, youknow, and that's kind of
happened.
(27:20):
It's evolved or most outside ofthe cord.
And I think part of it, thereason for that was that we were
funded by the local authorityand the[inaudible].
But by that time, a lot ofpeople have, a lot of the local
companies are alreadyappreciated the value of what
went on there for theirchildren.
(27:41):
And they just rose up and said,it's not going.
We will do what we can.
And we had this mass summerwhere there were parents on the,
uh, on the car park.
Same sent Matt that close bykind of cake sales.
Um, we were playing around quiznights.
I run discos, I had head shaves,event, you name it.
(28:04):
Um, and that, you know, willjust come and work here.
It has to stay open.
And I think that's, I would, Idon't think I would ever have
thought that actually pullingmoney out of something would
have been so valuable.
That's actually, it was becausewhat it meant was that called it
took ownership of it at thatpoint.
(28:25):
It's common flourished sincethen.
Stephanie (28:26):
And how same for the community to recognize the
importance and need of play andthat space for their kids.
That's really quite wonderful.
Well, I think there's a big,there's a big need for it.
There's a big need for in bigcities and smaller cities and
rural areas to have a place forcommunity hub.
(28:47):
I think that more and moreeducators and parents and
community organizers arerealizing just how important
play and free play is.
And hopefully the pendulum isswinging back from sterilizing
every single playground to thepoint where they're not very fun
to, you know, allowing for someof that like risk and openness
(29:09):
and community revolving aroundplaygrounds and play groups and
places for kids to just be thenyeah, absolutely.
Ali (29:19):
And they will show us the children and the next
generation, uh, you know, as we,we do in that region, you know,
I find myself learning from itnear went right, I'm actually
the way the world is going, weneed the next generation to be
as individualized as possibleand unimaginative constable to
(29:41):
with the very tuff solutionsthat know how this is going to
have to get a in a whole varietyof areas.
I think it's actually gettingand having that freedom of
running throughout one's childthat actually stimulates that
kind of approach that will comeup with some of those kinds of
solutions.
Whereas if we kind of school,uh, w madness, isn't it the
(30:02):
sense of an education thing.
But if we kind of schoolchildren into basically be
what's going before, we willfind that we're stuck little
still.
Stephanie (30:14):
So as we've mentioned, there aren't many
opportunities for adventureplaygrounds here in the u s or
even just around Texas.
And the one in Houston that welove isn't always open to the
public.
So for other people who don'thave access to that, do you have
any tips for them to how theycan kind of set up a more open
(30:37):
space in their own homes orbackyards that might make it not
quite as huge of a thing as anadventure playground but provide
their own child with a littlemore of that openness?
Ali (30:48):
Absolutely.
I think for all parents toactually, um, take a little bit
more of a box that you see inwatching the children play and
making sure that they'reinviting their children's
friends around and vice versa.
Maybe starting with things like,uh, um, a few parents nds that
can almost like a rotor to go tothe local park or something.
(31:10):
So actually groups of childrencan go and feel quite safe.
It, yeah.
And it doesn't always have tojust be you, the parent with
your children because we allknow that there is time.
He's actually trying to actuallywork stuff out with other
parents and networking and to dostuff like that and finding the
places in your neighborhood thatare of interest to children, um,
(31:32):
that are call spaces.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe the traditional park with the
swings in the round about it.
So whatever.
I haven't seen any of thoseapps, but actually those are
quite boring, really aren'tthey.
Um, so finding the other placesin the neighborhoods and the
more wild places around thatexist and letting children
(31:53):
explore those, you know, ifchildren have bikes going out
and live on this, but going outand not all, some folks as well
to have some bike rides.
Um, there's a really good bookactually written by an American
called Light Lanza calledplaybourhood.
Oh, it's really worth a readbecause what he does is he is,
(32:13):
he decided that he wanted to beone of these parents that
actually gave his own childrenfree range playing.
Um, and so what he did in hisown neighborhood, but then he's
also looked at loads of otherneighborhoods across the states
where that has happened andthey're all different in
different kinds of ideas.
You know, people who've beentightened, the fence is done in
their backyards so that actuallychewing on free riding across
(32:37):
all sorts of weird and wonderfulideas that what work everywhere.
But finding what works where youare, it's a really good book.
It's worth it for all parentswho wants to make him think that
Stephanie (32:49):
innately people want that connection with their
neighbors and their neighborhoodand it's just finding the time
and the place.
And he said, what works for yourown particular
Ali (32:57):
there was a movement in the UK, which I think is taking off
here.
Jill (33:02):
My wish that is, that's my greatest wish.
Also in addition to to adventureplay here, I have this group
called Bayou City Play.
I would, that is where I wouldlike to take it, where we could
do street closures.
We would help people make thathappen because there are so many
(33:25):
children in my neighborhood andI have a five year old and she
has a ton of friends in theneighborhood, but we all sort of
get locked into our own worldand our own minds.
And if a street was closed andwe knew we could meet our
neighbors there, who would bethere, you be there every time
she would make us go, I'm toldit's a good point.
Ali (33:48):
And it's happened quite a lot in different cities across
the UK.
Um, what it does is it buildscommunity because originally it
songs is, it just applies forchildren's by let's close the
street.
But in the end, even the peoplewithout children come out and
start sitting in and watchingand then taking parts of, and
then you get some dads who comeon start games, often other
(34:10):
things like that.
And it's a, it's a wonderful canplay actually builds from
Newton's, you'd just put your.
Stephanie (34:16):
oh, I often encourage adults to play in their own ways
to relieve stress and reconnecttheir child.
Yeah.
Ali (34:26):
So yeah, best of it.
It's not actually too difficult.
Once you've got the over therekind of getting the license to
close the street and you've leteverybody in the street, no
people will come out becausethey're curious and they'll
just, other children will justgo, whoa, start to play.
Yeah.
I had a Bingo, you're away.
Stephanie (34:46):
Well, as we wrap this up, we've been asking everyone
for one piece of advice thatthey would give to parents or
educators.
That's just their go to bestpiece of advice and it can be
anything that's really specificor really broad like listen to
your mother or no go play orwhatever you feel is your go to
(35:08):
that you'd like to impart on ourlisteners.
Jill (35:10):
Yes.
Um, to let your child will bebored.
That is really important.
I think that as a parent, um,it's hard for me, it's as hard
as watching them take risks orwe're have big emotions, but
boredom is so important.
And on a playground for him isthe beginning point.
(35:34):
Like we know if a child isbored, something really about,
yeah, we're still doing it.
So dependent on adults sortingthat they never have to.
What are we going to do today?
I'm more and when you give me myiPad
Ali (35:50):
And that's the trouble with electronic guidance, et Cetera,
because they're an easy fix andsuddenly they're now an easy
entertainment as opposed tohaving to think for yourself and
really knows the skills that wewant to most of them.
I think other fellow, I think mymind would be, um, quite simply
back off.
(36:13):
Um, actually just back off andwatch children.
Let them teach teaching.
Stephanie (36:19):
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Are really important.
What?
It was really, really wonderfulto talk to you.
I said glad that you agreed todo this and I'm really excited
for everyone to get introducedto adventure playgrounds and
playwork.
And it's something very new anddifferent for a lot of us, but I
think that it's in a resonatewith a lot of people.
(36:44):
Thank you for listening to theunbearable podcast.
For more information on today'sepisode, including links to
Jill, what's articles onadventure play read to by Allie
Wood's book reflected Playworksand more information about Bayou
city play.
Please see our episodedescription or more information
on The Parish School.
You can visit our website@www.theparishschool.org and if
(37:05):
you're not already, don't forgetto subscribe to the Unbabbled
podcast on your app of choice.
A special thank you to StigDaniels, Katie McCarthy and Amy
Tanner for their hard workbehind the scenes.
Thanks again for listening.
Hello and welcome to Unbabbled, a podcast that
navigates the world of specialeducation, communication delays
and learning differences.
We are your hosts, StephanieLandis and Meredith Krimmel and
we are certified speech andlanguage pathologist who spend
our days at The Parish School inHouston, helping children find
their voices and connect withthe world around them.
(00:26):
Meredith couldn't be here today,so this is Stephanie Flying
Solo.
Today I'll be speaking withplayworkers Ali Wood and Jill
Wood.
Allie has over 20 years ofexperience supporting children
through play.
She is co manager of theMeridian adventure playground in
the United Kingdom and coauthorof the reflective play, work and
instructional guide for parentsand playworkers that promotes
the role of play in a child'slife.
(00:47):
Jill Wood is the head of theadventure playground at The
Parish School in Houston, Texasand founder of, Bayou City Play,
a series of temporary playinstallations that spread out
all over the Houston area.
Ali and Jill will be telling usabout each of their adventure
playgrounds and sharing storiesfrom their personal experiences.
They'll also explain why they'reso passionate about playwork and
discuss the importance of playand risk taking in a child's
(01:10):
development.
Welcome.
Today, I'm excited to be joinedby Ali Wood and Jill Wood.
Ali Wood is a Playworker andshe's here in Houston for the
Campference that we're hostinghere at The Parish School.
So welcome.
We're very excited to have you.
Will you first just start off bygiving just a little bit about
(01:32):
yourself, where you're from andwhat you do?
So a small, small little, Ithought everything about you,
Huh?
Okay.
Ali (01:41):
Um, yes I am a Playworker but I have a lot of that kind of
easily quite wide ranging andhow it's applied in practice.
So I actually do, um, co- managean adventure playground country
in England in a very poor area.
But I also write aboutPlayworks.
(02:02):
I research, um, uh, and over theyears or have trained lots of
the people I went and designedand delivered qualifications in
play, work, et cetera.
So it's all quite wide rangingand um, a lot of fun.
Stephanie (02:17):
So we have been actively bringing a adventure
playground and playwork hereinto The Parish School.
And Jill Wood, our librarian andplayworker also has been doing a
lot of work within the Houstoncommunity, but sadly it's not as
well known in the US and in ourarea is it is overseas.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what playwork is and your
(02:40):
adventure playground?
Ali (02:41):
Okay.
Firstly I will say that theadventure playground here, if
you don't know or cannot see isbeautiful.
It's really wonderful.
It's a place where you can tellthe children are really truly
being themselves.
Um, my playground is similar butdifferent.
But then adventure playgroundsare unique and shizzy because
(03:01):
they reflect the childrenthemselves that goes to this
because the children help makethem, build them, create them,
do their stuff.
And then, um, the one where I amand it's in a very core area,
it's got quite a lot of big highstructures.
There's a lot of risk taking.
We have a big fire pit.
Um, we cook on the fire everyday and we feed the children
(03:23):
every day because most of themare hungry.
Um, because many parents are atwork or whatever.
It is a very poor area.
Um, and as to what Playworks is,right?
playwork is perhaps the onlyprofession I think of people
working with children wherethere is a flattening of the
(03:44):
hierarchy.
So, um, so the, the, the adults,the adult playworker and the
child are, are really exactly onthe same level.
And the playworker, uh, believesin the capability and competency
of every child that is expressedthrough their playing.
When they're, when children areplaying, it's perhaps the time
(04:06):
when they feel most alive, mostfree, um, most competent.
And it's where they can take,they can take risks, they can
make mistakes, they can findout, they can explore, et
Cetera, et cetera.
And so the job of a playworkeris to support that.
And sometimes that meanscreating the space where that
(04:28):
can happen, but it also meanspulling away and allowing them
that space to make thosemistakes, to try things out and
to explore for themselves.
Whether that's socially, youknow, in terms of making a
breaking friendships, whetherthat's physically in terms of
what can I do, can I get upthere?
Can I fall down there?
(04:48):
What will happen if I do?
Um, emotionally, how does itfeel to be like this?
Can I really, can I be angrytoday?
Because quite a lot of the timewe suppressed children's anger.
We don't give them a chance toexplore it and deal with it and
make it a creative force intheir lives.
Um, intellectually, because Ithink a adventure, playgrounds
(05:09):
and places where children,they're almost like natural
research of origins there whenthat child becomes a scientist.
And so, you know, I've watchedsome of your children deal
yesterday on this, the, whatwe're call it, a sun piece.
I call it the sun dome and thehoses in there and the absolute
absorption and immersion inthese kids and working out
(05:32):
what's happening.
It's almost like they're naturalphysicists.
Um, it's, uh, it's fascinating.
Absolutely fascinating.
So playworkers spend a lot oftime creating space if he's
awesome spacing and thenwatching and learning and
supporting children to be free.
Stephanie (05:48):
I love that.
I think that to me, coming froma speech pathology Lens, we see
play as equally as important tobuilding a child's overall
development.
But you're right and sometimesit's much more structured for us
and sometimes we jump in andlike, oh maybe we should play
more like this.
And I love that from theplaywork point of view, all play
(06:09):
is, you know, kind of equallyimportant.
And for parents and for otheradults sometimes that's really
hard to let kids explore that.
It's hard to let them takerisks.
It's hard to let them exploreall those emotions.
I know that you have a book thatdiscusses reflective play,
where, can you speak a littlebit about what that kind of
(06:30):
means and what that reflection?
Ali (06:33):
okay.
I think the lowest peoplewouldn't, like when you talk
about reflective practice, and Iask a lot of people is I say,
what does that mean?What it'sabout looking back and seeing
something he went yes.
And whether we can do it betternext time.
And I'll say that's theevaluation.
Yeah, that's fleet.
It's about why she's a part ofit.
(06:55):
Let you live.
It's just a small part.
So the reflective use, itactually does what it says on
the tin.
If you think of something thatreflect what reflects an object
that reflect back at you, it's amovement.
And so actually what we do is weare taking the mirror because
when children look like, and ithas all sorts of impact on us.
Um, whoever we are, we haveautomatic triggers just like we
(07:19):
all have it.
And the playworkers have them aswell.
We're not just all sort of, it'dbe fine.
Stephanie (07:25):
Yeah.
You're like, oh, maybe weshouldn't.
But that's your own personal.
Ali (07:31):
That's right.
And so, so the idea ofreflective practice is that he
also turns, turns the light onourselves to say, why am I
feeling, why is it that that kidwants me up?
You know, why is it that I'manxious when I see children
doing that?
Um, why is it that I find myselfreally wanting to do this and
not wanting to do that?
(07:51):
Why is it though I just saidthat or why is it that I didn't
do that?
So it turns the spotlight on usreally because um, as we
understand them cause adultsquite often unintentionally are
the biggest barrier tochildren's free play because we
involved ourselves or we thinkwe know better and actually
(08:14):
plays the one area wherechildren, yeah.
Stephanie (08:17):
That's fair.
That's their work.
I know you touched on emotionsexcel hard for initially parents
and teachers and therapists,they see kids and the playground
getting into even just a smartargument about who goes first
and instinctually they want tojump in and fix it.
But that's such a natural wayfor them to learn problem
solving abilities and to workout that social give intake and
(08:42):
how can we still work throughthis and be friends and you
know, sometimes jumping in toofast, I know I need to jump in.
It hinders them developing thosesituations later when maybe an
adult isn't around.
So instead of through it theyjust run away.
And look for an adult's and playand on the playground is a
perfect place for them topractice that you see?
(09:04):
Yeah.
Because it is a totallydifferent way of looking at play
and play grounds and yourplayground.
Yeah.
Uh, ours is on a private schoolcampus so it's not open to the
public very often.
Is yours more open to thepublic?
Ali (09:18):
We do.
Um, after school it's open onall day on a Saturday, it's open
every day of school holidays.
We also have school groups thatcome and visit us during the
daytime at school term time andpupil referral groups and uh,
still, um, and we are, we are acharity or that's this is,
(09:40):
that's the sign was a not forprofit thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's okay.
So we're a charity so we managethe whole thing so we don't own
the land, we lease it from thelocal authority, uh, and it's
fenced off cause it's locatedwithin a public park.
Yes.
That's right.
Um, and it will, we, although weleased the land, they've kind of
(10:03):
given us permission to do more.
This whole holding on, which youneed to frame terribly crowd.
Stephanie (10:08):
That's amazing.
And did the parents come joinwhen it's afterschool?
Ali (10:14):
We have, we have um, uh, kind of, uh, sort of ruiling
that.
Yes, there is a rule that saysif you're under 7, you need to
have a carer that comes or aparent with them.
Um, if you're seven and underthen parents can give permission
permission for them to comealone and many do.
(10:34):
Yeah.
Um, but some parents of olderchildren still want to come as
well.
Uh, and quite a lot of parentsactually volunteer their time
and services.
They help us maintainstructures.
They help cooking with cooking.
They help on plays games andallergies.
I help out.
I helped raise money becausewe're always trying to raise
money and um, and I'm quite alot of parents, Um, have also
(10:56):
learned about how play can beimportant in their own mind.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's what I was going to say.
You have the benefit of havingthe parents, they are watching
it.
Have you had many stories orfeedback of how parents shifted
their play or their own child?
Ali (11:10):
All the time.
I just as you come to the gateabout there's a kind of a, a
structure that's probably ashigh as the ceiling in this
room.
So not too high or low.
It's high for a playground.
Yeah.
Um, so, but this particularstructure, the children would
like to jump off onto crashmats.
Stephanie (11:30):
Yeah, that would freat parents out.
Ali (11:31):
When they're younger they kind of just jump off.
And sometimes you can see too,when you just stunning it, why
do you then pull it out?
We can't do it yet.
To the other kids.
That's okay.
But as they get older and theyget bigger, and then of course
the, the risks need to get thekids, somersault off stuff, you
know, and when heroines firstseat, so, but then the free cam
(11:53):
and I think terribly dangerousand we say, well, I changed, you
know, in 10 years we've neverhad an accident.
And that, that's the first thingthat surprises them because they
think it's, it's almost a giventhat it will do.
Yeah.
Um, and, and so we talk about,we actually ask them to watch,
(12:14):
just watch the other childrenjumping and see what I can see
the children are getting out ofit and how much they're enjoying
it and how much there I have tosay learning probably as well
because children do learn.
That's not why they play, butthey do learn from their
playing.
Um, and sometimes we will standthere and we'll have a word with
parents because she gets someparents who go the other way and
(12:34):
start saying, okay, come on,jump off.
Don't be a wuss.
And we're going, no, no, no, youdon't do that.
It's their decision.
It's the child's decision and ifthey're not ready, don't push
them.
And then you get the otherparents who stands, they say,
Oh, are you alright?
And we say, no, no, no, leavethat be because otherwise your
(12:59):
projecting your fear onto themand then the child becomes less
competent and more likely tohurt themselves.
So we thought we have sometimesbang patrons from certain days
because we discovered thatactually it was the parents fear
if you like, it was kind ofinfluencing the children.
They were ending not havingaccidents.
And as soon as we with parentsto stop.
(13:22):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So we do, we do interfere a lotmore.
Is that Austin we think we dooften for what seems like really
good reasons, but they're not,yeah, it's just a whole shift.
It's a whole shift.
It's a whole new mind shift andit's quite, quite hard.
One of the ways for people tounderstand it I think, or to get
(13:45):
get into it is to alwaysremember back when my client and
um, and that's where we alwaysstart with, okay, try and
remember where you were and whatyou did and how you felt and you
believe in what you were doingif you weren't doing anything at
all and how you feltparticularly.
And then people, suddenly youstood suddenly see the grins and
(14:05):
people start and then you signhigh.
So what was common about allthese experiences?
And I also, it's freedom.
It's freedom.
Stephanie (14:15):
It is because you hear so many people talking
about though.
Well, when I was a kid, we justwent in the backyard and built
this and like personally I grewup with cousins on a farm and
we'd go like jump off of HayBales in the barn and it was
freedom to explore the farm anddo whatever and have that yeah.
Exploration that we could buildand manipulate and play and raom
(14:38):
and the family.
Anybody interfering or we, we dohave, I think what's been going
for quite a long time.
Um, yeah.
Ali (14:46):
But um, a lot of the research that has been done in
the last or 20, 30, 40 years,that back-up, that's approach
for a lot of the research of ourchildren's freedom to apply.
He's really, really interesting.
And um, there are that, there isresearch coming forward that
shows the, actually the morethat we did, are you familiar
(15:07):
with the term helicopter parent,um, or harboring, we call
hovering.
What are the, um, the more ofthat that happens actually in
the more delayed a child'sdevelopment is because actually
they don't get chance chances tobe doing stuff for themselves to
be becoming independent people.
Stephanie (15:28):
Yeah.
So simple as tying your own shoewear, keeping washing your own
hair and yeah, playing on theplayground, climbing up really
high, going really fast on yourbike.
Yeah.
These are all important lessonsthough.
Yeah.
Ali (15:44):
There a low normal [inaudible] own experiences, but
suddenly I've got less and lessbecause we've become too
protective.
Stephanie (15:52):
I know you touched on a little bit, um, about learning
from the play and it seems likeevery toy in your, every
educational experience now hasto be learning.
Like it's marketed.
Like you must use this toybecause it's going to teach you
phonetics so that you can read,you have to use this toy because
that's what it'll teach you, thefine motors that you could do
(16:12):
this.
Can you touch a little bit onone play being great for playing
experience and two how you canstill develop those skills
through free.
Play it off.
Okay.
Ali (16:24):
Um, this might sound extreme.
Tell me, tell me.
I'm going to far.
But I'm a bit cynical abouttools.
Yes.
No, I agree.
I see the toy industry actually,it doesn't really kill them that
children grow the revolutiondecide house.
No.
Electronic Toys.
(16:44):
Yeah.
And I think annoying and it kindof takes away some creativity.
Yeah.
Um, and it does.
Absolutely it does.
And also I think, uh, I don'tknow if, do you have advertising
for children's toys andmerchandise here?
Oh yeah.
You must to.
Yes.
Cause she did, but he'd actuallyonly become legal in the UK, but
(17:05):
30 years ago.
Okay.
Um, and um, that we suddenly sawthings start to change because
when you advertise directly tochildren that children get
convinced they want that thing,they need that.
And very often when they've gotit, um, and I want it because
they got an order.
It's not what my thought in thebill as a short life.
(17:27):
It doesn't show it off.
And yet often they cost lots ofmoney.
And so parents are struggling tobuy things.
I think that children reallywant lead because of the
industry.
It looks up, we, we'll need it.
I don't think we necessarily do
Stephanie (17:41):
people joke after holidays and birthdays that the
kids wanting to play with thebox more than me saying, yeah,
it's true.
It's true of children.
Ali (17:50):
You is, you can do far more.
Um, we think was that done halfa self builtin purpose, you
know, which some of these toyshalf you can do far more and you
know, if he had trouble thesechildren, what suicide actually.
Okay, can you give me a bookhere?
That piece of road, a tarphauling, uh, and, and some balls
(18:11):
to play with me.
I wouldn't do that.
But actually thought of thosesorts of things are available.
They'll come up with in varietypossible games.
We know that those things, mostof which cost very little,
nothing got resolved in thefirst lesson.
And that's the beauty I think ofsaying let's, let's dispense
with tall use.
(18:31):
You know, I'm not going to sayall toys are rubbish.
Um, but I mean a bike, I thinkis wonderful.
Yeah, absolutely.
Having bikes and stuff scape itan awful, yeah, but a lot of the
stuff is not, is not made notnecessarily, and actually having
stuff, natural stuff and reusestuff that children can just do
(18:52):
it.
They like me.
It's amazing watching, watchinghim work at, at sorted out and
make sense of it.
I thought it's, yeah, it is.
Stephanie (19:03):
And as you mentioned, they are a little scientists out
there.
The best way to learn aboutphysics is to go out and build
things and make catapults andsee-saws and live it the whole
body experience and try and failand try again in
Ali (19:21):
In Jill's park here, there is a a wonderful big, is it
water pipe?
The enormous, the black oh yeah.
It's, it's a cover.
It's just a big black plasticcover.
Yeah.
From, from a coma and it's uh,probably like five feet.
Um, but what she, some of theseolder, older children play with
(19:44):
that yesterday, moving it aroundthe side, getting in it,
walking, walking in[inaudible]and making it move around so
that they go upside down andbackwards and all the rest of it
and trying to climb on it thentrying to make it and go certain
directions and then finally theycan't do that and it's got this,
it's just just that on its own.
And yet who would have thoughtthat piece of covert pipe would
(20:07):
be so fascinating and yet theyspend nearly an hour and a half.
Yeah.
And she has to do lose pipe likesix times a month they do with
that.
So it never gets old.
Yeah.
It has this long extended lifechildren just why to understand
the world and do that through inthe stuff to play with and it
(20:33):
is, it was absolutely lovely tojust sit and watch these
children, Mr doing nothing andthey don't need, I mean it's
lovely because I could also seethe staff that are here, they've
got really good relationshipswith the children but they don't
force that on them.
But they are there for them ifneeded.
(20:55):
And then the children's songs,songs and both you, yeah,
they'll come and ask me stuffbut it's a different
relationship than a teacherbecause awesome.
When they, they know that I cankind of do almost whatever they
like because that permission yousay and not safe to use that
emotional decided to do that.
But I haven't got to keep themin and say, Oh, I thought that
(21:17):
that might have, I can just tryand lift the stock just to pull
them.
Stephanie (21:23):
They have, we have very, as we've just said, very
intuitive and very thoughtfulplaywork staff here.
I've, they come and support ourkids during even just recess
time sometimes during the week.
And it's been amazing to watchthem just move a bucket and play
(21:44):
something else closer to aspecific child.
And then that child that hadbeen having difficulty joining a
different play suddenly was partof the play around the bucket
and that was out without evenwords and direction and you
know, stopping the child andsaying, Hey, come play with
this.
Or going up to the other kidsand saying like, stop not
(22:04):
playing with this child.
Maybe you should play that game.
It was just the lightest touch.
That's what you guys use, right?
The legacy side.
Ali (22:13):
You want to use willing to, to, um, because actually to have
that kind of intuition comeswith crafting sweep and it's
quite hard.
It's got real depth.
Yeah.
You know, to, to, to actuallykind of see the world through
that child's own and he's, andtherefore get an appreciation of
what it is they're trying to do.
What did he say one, what ledyou to do that and not being
(22:34):
able to just use this so
Stephanie (22:37):
it was so smooth and, yeah, watching from the outside
as an adult, I could see wherethey were going, but the kids
were so wrapped up in their ownplay, but they were just like,
oh, a bucket.
I'll go there.
And it was just exactly whatthat child needed to join into
that group play and have thatconfidence and then to start
building without the adultsforcing like that's social
(22:58):
interaction naturally on theirown.
Yeah, it was quite brilliant towatch.
Ali (23:03):
Great.
You see that will be quite adifferent way of looking at it.
Stephanie (23:09):
Um, I noticed that you got at your adventure
playgrounds, you guys haveworked with another charity and
another organization to bring inpeople with different abilities
and learning differences andother things.
Can you speak about how thatplay might change?
I know that some parents mightfeel like, oh, my child has
motor difficulties or they havethese challenges.
(23:32):
This might be too much for them.
But you guys bring it in andmake it accessible.
Ali (23:36):
Yes.
We originally started off, um,by having a partner, she
believes very concerned thoughyou sort of organization who
works specifically disciplecomes with a whole range of
different impediments, things ofall ages.
And so initially those childrenstarted coming with one to one
key workers, et cetera.
(23:58):
Um, but very often thosechildren end up coming alone on
their own because once they findtheir fit and the other kids,
because you get regular cubesare just so used to kids of all
kinds being about.
And it's just not, it's not anissue at all.
And so they ended up makingfriends with other kids.
And I was telling the storyyesterday, I've, uh, there's,
(24:20):
there's, uh, who's a young mannow.
He's, he's almost 19.
And he first started coming tous when he was about eight or
nine, and, uh, he was autistic.
He had very challengingbehavior, had no fan of, very,
very difficult to relate to twoother kids, et cetera.
Um, but periodically it is now10 years later, he pops in and
(24:43):
really pops in the, uh, he comesin, he goes hi to the people on
the desk, and then he walks downto the big leggings swing at the
other end of the playground,which is really hard.
And for some reason hisparticular competency was
always, he got the reputationfor being able to go to the
highest the Mq has ever gone to.
(25:05):
Alright.
And he did, but he just knewthat bit where if not to go any
higher, you know.
Um, and so he comes in and allthose 19 comes in and goes down
there and I think goes to haveit.
It's almost like the whiteparts.
All the kids get them off.
You know, Jack, it's Jack andJack[inaudible] and he does
towards, or anyone done, it justgets on and he almost looks the
(25:28):
loop and then he gets off andthen he smiled a little kids and
says northern one day and thenhe leaves.
It doesn't delete tat my fix andhe's gotten, you know, so yeah,
he's a, we actually have a lotof autistic children who have
been excluded from schoollocally.
So we actually have an, I'vebeen homeschooled by their
(25:50):
parents who sometimes at theirwits end.
So we have quite a lot of themcoming in all day time as well.
Um, and we actually find thatparticularly for children with
Adhd or autism, that actuallythe adventure playground is
almost like the perfect placefor them because there's no
structure.
They're not being forced intoanything.
And that's where they kind offind it wrong modus operandi.
(26:12):
Um, and they actually start toget on with each other and talk
to each other in a way thatsometimes the school sets up
just never suited them.
It was too structured for them.
Um, so yeah, you'd be kind ofworks.
And so we have new childrencoming up the time by Sun Lowe
and young people as well.
No, they bring down young peopleone night a week and it just
(26:35):
blossoms.
Jill (26:36):
I love hearing about how much a part of the community
your playground is when, um,when you talk about homeschool
families or groups, it justseems like it's the center of
(26:58):
life for a lot of
Ali (27:00):
Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
It was, it's there, right?
It's actually not as hard as Iactually call it.
[inaudible].
Um, I'm originally, we started aplayground, you know, just for
children, six to 13.
And that was what we started aschildren, six to 13.
It's my note to the grave, youknow, and that's kind of
happened.
(27:20):
It's evolved or most outside ofthe cord.
And I think part of it, thereason for that was that we were
funded by the local authorityand the[inaudible].
But by that time, a lot ofpeople have, a lot of the local
companies are alreadyappreciated the value of what
went on there for theirchildren.
(27:41):
And they just rose up and said,it's not going.
We will do what we can.
And we had this mass summerwhere there were parents on the,
uh, on the car park.
Same sent Matt that close bykind of cake sales.
Um, we were playing around quiznights.
I run discos, I had head shaves,event, you name it.
(28:04):
Um, and that, you know, willjust come and work here.
It has to stay open.
And I think that's, I would, Idon't think I would ever have
thought that actually pullingmoney out of something would
have been so valuable.
That's actually, it was becausewhat it meant was that called it
took ownership of it at thatpoint.
(28:25):
It's common flourished sincethen.
Stephanie (28:26):
And how same for the community to recognize the
importance and need of play andthat space for their kids.
That's really quite wonderful.
Well, I think there's a big,there's a big need for it.
There's a big need for in bigcities and smaller cities and
rural areas to have a place forcommunity hub.
(28:47):
I think that more and moreeducators and parents and
community organizers arerealizing just how important
play and free play is.
And hopefully the pendulum isswinging back from sterilizing
every single playground to thepoint where they're not very fun
to, you know, allowing for someof that like risk and openness
(29:09):
and community revolving aroundplaygrounds and play groups and
places for kids to just be thenyeah, absolutely.
Ali (29:19):
And they will show us the children and the next
generation, uh, you know, as we,we do in that region, you know,
I find myself learning from itnear went right, I'm actually
the way the world is going, weneed the next generation to be
as individualized as possibleand unimaginative constable to
(29:41):
with the very tuff solutionsthat know how this is going to
have to get a in a whole varietyof areas.
I think it's actually gettingand having that freedom of
running throughout one's childthat actually stimulates that
kind of approach that will comeup with some of those kinds of
solutions.
Whereas if we kind of school,uh, w madness, isn't it the
(30:02):
sense of an education thing.
But if we kind of schoolchildren into basically be
what's going before, we willfind that we're stuck little
still.
Stephanie (30:14):
So as we've mentioned, there aren't many
opportunities for adventureplaygrounds here in the u s or
even just around Texas.
And the one in Houston that welove isn't always open to the
public.
So for other people who don'thave access to that, do you have
any tips for them to how theycan kind of set up a more open
(30:37):
space in their own homes orbackyards that might make it not
quite as huge of a thing as anadventure playground but provide
their own child with a littlemore of that openness?
Ali (30:48):
Absolutely.
I think for all parents toactually, um, take a little bit
more of a box that you see inwatching the children play and
making sure that they'reinviting their children's
friends around and vice versa.
Maybe starting with things like,uh, um, a few parents nds that
can almost like a rotor to go tothe local park or something.
(31:10):
So actually groups of childrencan go and feel quite safe.
It, yeah.
And it doesn't always have tojust be you, the parent with
your children because we allknow that there is time.
He's actually trying to actuallywork stuff out with other
parents and networking and to dostuff like that and finding the
places in your neighborhood thatare of interest to children, um,
(31:32):
that are call spaces.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe the traditional park with the
swings in the round about it.
So whatever.
I haven't seen any of thoseapps, but actually those are
quite boring, really aren'tthey.
Um, so finding the other placesin the neighborhoods and the
more wild places around thatexist and letting children
(31:53):
explore those, you know, ifchildren have bikes going out
and live on this, but going outand not all, some folks as well
to have some bike rides.
Um, there's a really good bookactually written by an American
called Light Lanza calledplaybourhood.
Oh, it's really worth a readbecause what he does is he is,
(32:13):
he decided that he wanted to beone of these parents that
actually gave his own childrenfree range playing.
Um, and so what he did in hisown neighborhood, but then he's
also looked at loads of otherneighborhoods across the states
where that has happened andthey're all different in
different kinds of ideas.
You know, people who've beentightened, the fence is done in
their backyards so that actuallychewing on free riding across
(32:37):
all sorts of weird and wonderfulideas that what work everywhere.
But finding what works where youare, it's a really good book.
It's worth it for all parentswho wants to make him think that
Stephanie (32:49):
innately people want that connection with their
neighbors and their neighborhoodand it's just finding the time
and the place.
And he said, what works for yourown particular
Ali (32:57):
there was a movement in the UK, which I think is taking off
here.
Jill (33:02):
My wish that is, that's my greatest wish.
Also in addition to to adventureplay here, I have this group
called Bayou City Play.
I would, that is where I wouldlike to take it, where we could
do street closures.
We would help people make thathappen because there are so many
(33:25):
children in my neighborhood andI have a five year old and she
has a ton of friends in theneighborhood, but we all sort of
get locked into our own worldand our own minds.
And if a street was closed andwe knew we could meet our
neighbors there, who would bethere, you be there every time
she would make us go, I'm toldit's a good point.
Ali (33:48):
And it's happened quite a lot in different cities across
the UK.
Um, what it does is it buildscommunity because originally it
songs is, it just applies forchildren's by let's close the
street.
But in the end, even the peoplewithout children come out and
start sitting in and watchingand then taking parts of, and
then you get some dads who comeon start games, often other
(34:10):
things like that.
And it's a, it's a wonderful canplay actually builds from
Newton's, you'd just put your.
Stephanie (34:16):
oh, I often encourage adults to play in their own ways
to relieve stress and reconnecttheir child.
Yeah.
Ali (34:26):
So yeah, best of it.
It's not actually too difficult.
Once you've got the over therekind of getting the license to
close the street and you've leteverybody in the street, no
people will come out becausethey're curious and they'll
just, other children will justgo, whoa, start to play.
Yeah.
I had a Bingo, you're away.
Stephanie (34:46):
Well, as we wrap this up, we've been asking everyone
for one piece of advice thatthey would give to parents or
educators.
That's just their go to bestpiece of advice and it can be
anything that's really specificor really broad like listen to
your mother or no go play orwhatever you feel is your go to
(35:08):
that you'd like to impart on ourlisteners.
Jill (35:10):
Yes.
Um, to let your child will bebored.
That is really important.
I think that as a parent, um,it's hard for me, it's as hard
as watching them take risks orwe're have big emotions, but
boredom is so important.
And on a playground for him isthe beginning point.
(35:34):
Like we know if a child isbored, something really about,
yeah, we're still doing it.
So dependent on adults sortingthat they never have to.
What are we going to do today?
I'm more and when you give me myiPad
Ali (35:50):
And that's the trouble with electronic guidance, et Cetera,
because they're an easy fix andsuddenly they're now an easy
entertainment as opposed tohaving to think for yourself and
really knows the skills that wewant to most of them.
I think other fellow, I think mymind would be, um, quite simply
back off.
(36:13):
Um, actually just back off andwatch children.
Let them teach teaching.
Stephanie (36:19):
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Are really important.
What?
It was really, really wonderfulto talk to you.
I said glad that you agreed todo this and I'm really excited
for everyone to get introducedto adventure playgrounds and
playwork.
And it's something very new anddifferent for a lot of us, but I
think that it's in a resonatewith a lot of people.
(36:44):
Thank you for listening to theunbearable podcast.
For more information on today'sepisode, including links to
Jill, what's articles onadventure play read to by Allie
Wood's book reflected Playworksand more information about Bayou
city play.
Please see our episodedescription or more information
on The Parish School.
You can visit our website@www.theparishschool.org and if
(37:05):
you're not already, don't forgetto subscribe to the Unbabbled
podcast on your app of choice.
A special thank you to StigDaniels, Katie McCarthy and Amy
Tanner for their hard workbehind the scenes.
Thanks again for listening.
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