February 23, 2023 • 26 mins
Are we saying the wrong things to our kids about the divorce??? Probably!! We think we are saying good healthy things to help our kids thru the divorce, but are we? I know we are just human and we are trying our best. But it is hard, we are stressed, emotional and have never been thru this before, so we are struggling to say the right things and hope that we are. We want to have our kids get thru this devastating life changing with as little trauma as possible.
Our research department found information from psychologists on what are some phrases we are saying to our kids that we need to stop! I guarantee that we have and maybe still are saying some of these. Lets dig in:
- “Your dad” or “Your mom” – that tiny addition of the word “your” creates otherness in the family. If you are now saying “your” the child is now hearing a separateness in who they are connecting with. Divorce does create changes in the family dynamic, but honoring how the child sees the parent can help keep a sense of cohesion.
Nix the “your”.
- “The Situation” – You are talking with your friend and the kids are in the room and she brings up “The Situation” and how “The Situation” is affecting everyone. “When you speak in code, it makes it seem like something sinister is going on.” The more you try to obfuscate what’s happening, the more anxious and curious your kids may become. “
Say instead – There are ways to explain divorce that is less abstract. You could even mention people they know who are divorced.
- “It’s not about you” - When your instinct is to keep your children from thinking they’re to blame for the divorce, this probably feels like a totally logical and constructive response. But according to Dr. Rubenstein, this phrase isn’t specific enough to quell the “well then what caused it?!” anxieties, because for kids, something had to cause it.
“Children have active imaginations and can conjure many scenarios that have nothing to do with the cause of the divorce,” she tells us. “It’s not about you” also negates the fact that the divorce very much involves your kids, which, Dr. Rubenstein explains, can wind up complicating your child’s feelings and experiences and what they’re willing to share with you.
Say instead – You can explain that mom and dad are not getting along and don’t feel they can resolve it. Grown ups have adult issues that sometimes cannot be solved, as hard as they try.
- “This is a good thing” – Sure,it might be a good thing for the family in the long term, but from a child’s persepective…not so much. This phrase sweeps their pain under the rug. “Almost every child wants their parents to be together under one roof. Even if one parent has addiction issues, anger issues, or other things a child can observe, most children want to believe in the fairytale that somehow things will all work out. It is challenging for them to see divorce as a benefit,”
Say instead – Acknowledge that this is really, really hard on everyone! That your decisions was a last resort made to have the children grown up in a home without fighting or discord.
- “You will get double everything! – While this is true, most kids want two parents in the home instead of more things. This is another example of minimizing your child’s feelings, even thought it done out of your desire to protect them.
Say instead – Emphasize that they will get more quality time with each parent individually. Get them excited about decorating a new room. Get their feedback on their new accomodations.
- “Not much will change” – This is lie. And if you tell children a lie
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:32):
Our fabulous
research departmentcame up with a great topic for this week.
Oh, our research department is so good.
She is wonderful.
Yes. So
are we saying the wrong things
to our kids about the divorce?
I we did yell when I read this article.
I was like, Huh?
(00:54):
Now, doesn't mean like we've
destroyed our kidsirreversibly destroyed our children.
But I think the point of talking aboutthis is we can do better.
We can help our kids even more.
Like I think we didthe best we could, the best we knew how.
(01:14):
I think we did an okay job.
We can always improve,
but if you're going through this,you know somebody's going through this.
I think that some of these things that
I researched are would just can just helpyour children
get through the divorcea little bit better.
Well, I'm glad you brought up.
It's not just the parentsthat need to be careful what they say.
(01:35):
It's friends of the family.
Grandma and grandpa, aunts and uncles.
It's anyone you know,
These are dumb things you can say tokids are going through a divorce.
Yes, that makes sense.
Yes, exactly. So.
All right. Should we dive right in?
You want to dive right in?
All right.
Let's let's get right to how we can nottraumatize our children as much.
(01:58):
This first one I find very interesting.
It says your dad or your mom,That tiny edition of the word
your creates otherness.
Create creates separation of family or.
Yeah. Part of that other group. Yes.
So yes So Thebaso when you say instead of so
(02:19):
obviously when you're marriedyou say, hey, mom is going to pick you up
today, Dad's going to call you later,Dad's waiting to talk to you.
A lot of people, once they get divorced,
it is now this your mom and
the kids
will say instead of the kidssaying mom is going to pick me up,
(02:41):
they say, my momor my dad is going to pick me up.
So we still do this today.
It's been 12, 12 years.
We still do.
I say you think we do.
I say Mel and gotalk to your mom about that.
Yeah.
Instead of just saying, Madeline,go talk to Mom about that.
All right?
I Well, isn't that interesting?
(03:03):
We destroyed the seven older kids.
I guess we can fix the last three. Yeah.
Yeah, we'll see.
I don't know.
So, yeah, it just says that divorce
does create changesin the family dynamic, obviously.
But honoring how the child sees the parentcan help keep a sense of cohesion.
So it's still your mom, It'sstill your dad.
(03:24):
But adding this your right.
Hey, what does your mom think about thisinstead of what does mom think about that?
Because because you got divorced, itdidn't.
That is still there, Mom.
And that is still there, Dad.
But you're adding something thatyou never did before because you got to.
Well,this goes into another strange thing,
and that iswhat do you call your stepmother?
(03:48):
Right.
We had this problem when we firstwhen we first got married.
Yeah.
Because little tiny David,he was so young.
He was calling you Mom sometimes.
And sometimes he was just for,like, in his mind,
like someone that's loving meand taking care of me is mom.
And so he did say mom for a while,and that can be super
hurtful to the bio parent for sure.
(04:09):
Like, no, I'm mom, you're not.
And but yet it's hardto say to a little kid.
They're not they don't you know,
you don't want to thinkthey're doing something wrong.
So, you know, it's very delicate to go,hey, so don't call me mom.
But it's that's very tricky.
So we came up with funny things.
They called you Storm.
They called you obviously step mom.
(04:31):
So Storm POM pom Paige and Mom?
Yep. POM. Sometimessome of the kids still call me POM.
You have one or two too?
Yeah, most of them just call me Page now.
But when they're little,
like we never told them to call meMom ever.
It just happened.
And then when that naturally occurred,it's hard to go to them and say,
(04:51):
You need to stop doing that.
But we did correct itand but this all goes into that.
I like how they said this.
Your you're emphasizing theyour all that's doing is driving a wedge
even further between the kids in theirand their parents.
Yeah.
And when I say parents I mean both sides.
If you're the one always saying your dador your mom,
(05:12):
you're actually alienating your kidfrom yourself as well.
Yeah. So anyway, so how to fix that?
Stop saying your just saymom is going to pick you up today
or dad is going to give you a call latertoday.
Get rid of the your asking me hard.
It's going to be really hard.
Yeah, but I can totally see.
(05:32):
I will try it. Yeah. We'll give it a shot.
Yeah, I can see where that's coming from.
All right, next one. Bus situation.
It wasn't that a guy.
Wasn't that a band in the eighties?
The situation. Yeah.
Or some rapper called The Situationor something.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, in this case,it does not mean that guy or gal
or a group, someone's going to someone'sgoing to call me or
(05:56):
send me an email and tell me whothe situation was, this situation.
But when you're talking to your friend,
a lot of timesyou want to obfuscate the conversation.
When you're talking about the divorceor the
the child support arrangementsor whatever, anything to do with the new
and the new family dynamics,whatever the case may be.
(06:16):
When you use obfuscated wordslike the situation,
the kids know what you're talking about.
They do.
And the more you are talking in coderight in their mind
and we've talked to our kids about thiswhen they don't have the full picture,
they think usually they're thinkingsomething much worse than it really.
(06:37):
They are very creative.
Yeah, it gets very much worsethan what the real situation.
So obviously,if you're talking with your friend,
maybe beforehandyou should tell your friend,
I don't want to talk about the divorceand what if my kids are in the room
So just you can do that.
But if it does come up,
you can go ahead and say like,how are things going with the divorce?
And obviously,if the kids are in the room, you know,
(06:59):
you should probably say, you know what,you know, we'll talk about this later.
But yeah, talking in code not good.
And I think it's so funny.
So you haven't reallylooked at this right, though?
I had to look up what the word was.
How do you say obfuscate?
Yes, I had to look that up.
Oh, and use the computer to say your.Yeah.
(07:21):
You're using thatlike an everyday term right now.
I had to look it up. So.
Which means that
when you tried to obfuscate,which means like to hide, hide, conceal.
Right, SEAL.
Yes. So yeah, I had to look that word up.
Well, we use it in computers all the time.
That's the only reason I know it.
Well, another thingit said interesting here is, don't there
(07:45):
there's ways to explain the divorcethat are not abstract,
something they can understa.
And remember, you're
dealing with children hereand maybe even adolescents or teenagers.
Still, they will
they will take on their own perceptionand they'll be very creative.
So be very simple and direct and use
use the word divorceinstead of the situation around the kids.
(08:08):
Otherwise they'll create something new.
Yeah, don't talk in codeand you can explain to them
when you're talking about it,you can maybe point out like, Oh,
well, you know, these people who you're,you know and love,
they're divorced, right?
Like, so that they you can point them to
a situation
that is, you know,they don't think is awful.
(08:30):
They're like, oh, wow,I didn't know that they recognized. Yes.
That they recognize.
So it's sadwhen you're trying to explain divorce,
maybetry and use someone that they already know
and love. So, yeah.
So no talking in code either.
Don't talk about it in front of themor use the correct terms, but be
be careful what you sayin front of the children for sure.
(09:00):
Okay.
The next thing that we should not saythat we have said, it's not about you.
What in the world does this mean?
It's not about you?
So like, you know,why are you guys getting divorced?
You know,it was something I did. Or was it?
You know, and you say it's not it?
No, no, it's not.
You're not saying that in a mean wayor a bad way. It's not about you.
It's a no, no, no, sweetie.
(09:21):
It's not about you, right?
It's about Dad and I.
They're saying this.
I colleges are saying,
don't do that.
It's not specific enough.
You need to be more specificon what caused the divorce
just by saying it's not about you.
It's a grown up issue.
Now, I guess what?
The kids are going to go hog wild, crazywith that one.
(09:44):
Well,it says like it's it's your instinct,
right, to keep your childrenfrom thinking they're to blame.
So it's instinctive to say, no, no,it wasn't you.
It says this.
This feels logical, right?
A logical response.
But yes, like you said,it isn't specific enough to cause the.
Well, then what caused it if it wasn't me?
And you're not telling me exactly,then it's causing them anxiety. And.
(10:09):
Well, it's interesting because Dr.
Rubinstein said here, I love this.
He says it's not aboutyou also negates the fact
that the divorce very much involvesthe kids.
Isn't that interesting?
Very much involvesthe kids, Yeah. Yes. So,
yeah, it can wind up complicating.
(10:30):
Right.
Your children's feelings and experiences
and maybe whatthey're willing to share with you. So.
So what do I stay in that?
I mean, you don't want the kid to knowit's their fault
if even if it is, it'snot the kid's fault.
It actually never is the kid's fault.
It says you can exploit.
(10:51):
Like if you don't want to be specific,if you think maybe they're too young
and not able to handle the actual reasonswhy you're getting divorced,
you can explain thatmom and dad aren't getting along
and they don't feellike they can resolve it.
And you can say thatgrownups have adult issues that sometimes
cannot be resolvedeven as hard as they might try.
(11:12):
So something like that. So, yeah.
What do you think about that?
I don't know.
You don't like that?
Well, I kind of do, but then it's almost.
Are you giving your kids permissionto just give up when things get hard?
No, no, I don't think so.
Well, because,I mean, you're kind of saying,
(11:32):
well, Mommy,mommy and daddy can't get along.
So welland they don't feel they can resolve it.
So what do you think you should say?
I don't know.
It's not your fault.
That's be You want to go back to that?
I think so. It's just not your fault.
Let's move on. Well,this is a really hard one.
I mean, when you talk about the divorce,our younger kids have no idea.
(11:56):
I don't think I have no ideawhat why they they are younger kids.
Our younger kids were so youngwhen we got divorced
that they probably had no conceptof what was really going on.
Our older kids understand what happenedwith the divorce, but are younger kids.
I don't think it even clues into them now.
Yeah, this is just been their life.
It's been their life.
(12:17):
So are separate.
So maybe this is for the kids that
went through the divorce that remembergoing through that that time.
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
So it's a that's a tough one.
That is a tough one.
It's a really tough one.
And maybe it just per different kids.
You say different thingsto write different personalities.
(12:38):
You feel likeyou can say different things too.
So I would add to that
make sure that you're not throwingyour ex under the bus
when you talk to the kidsabout the divorce.
Absolutely not.
That is the wrong thing to do.
All that will actually really dois alienate you with your own children.
Yeah.
Now, if they're old enough,you can share some facts with them,
(12:58):
but make sure it's facts and not
your opinion or how you're
feeling or right or your emotions.
So if you want to share some facts,you can if they're old enough.
But be careful.
Yeah. Be careful to be careful.So, yeah, it's tough on.
All right.
This next one,I think is is really horrible.
(13:19):
And I'm glad that they saiddon't say this once again.
I think people say this because they'rethey're trying to soften the blow.
They're trying to soften the blow.
So this phrase that they say to stopsaying is this is a good thing.
So I think some people say thatbecause they're like, you know what,
Mommy and daddyhaven't been happy for a long time
(13:39):
and our family hasn't been happy.
And so this is a good thing.
It is not a good thing.
Maybe in the long termit would be, right? Yes.
And some like maybe if there was abuse, ofcourse, it's going to be a better thing.
Right.We're not talking about those situations.
But but in that from the child'sperspective
and I thought this was very interestingand I truly believe believe this myself,
(14:00):
anyone going through a divorce,
it is a heart wrenching,horrible thing to go through.
Yeah, it is.
And even if you're leavingbecause there's abuse,
you're getting divorcedbecause there's abuse, that
that's a bad thing that you hadthat you had to go through that.
Right.
So from the child's perspective,
in the short term, thisthis is devastating for them.
(14:23):
So for you to come and say, oh,it's a good thing you're actually negating
their feeling of pain that they're havingand you're sweeping it under the rug.
Yes. Right.
When they're like, oh, my gosh,this is awful.
Oh, no, honey, it's a good thing.
Once again, I know people are saying thatwith the good intentions,
but it is sweepingthe pain under the rug, like you're
(14:46):
not allowed to have your feelings,You're not allowed to be sad.
You're not allowed to come and talk to me.
Because when you come and talk to meto share, I'm just going to say
it's a good thing.
And mom and dad don't want to hearwhat I have to say about this right now.
One thing that one thingthat the article said, they said
almost every child wants their parentsto be together under one roof. Yep.
And that's even witheven if one parent is addicted to drugs,
(15:11):
has anger issues, is abusive,
they have found that most childrenstill believe in a fairy tale ending,
that somehow things are going to work outand get better.
Don't you think that's fascinating?
It is.
Don't you remember when we got marriedeven a year or two after
we got married, Madeline wanted us all.
She would be like, Oh, can we just livenext door to each other and can't we?
(15:33):
Like, she wanted to.
She wanted us to make one big houseand have us all live together
because she hated choosing.
She hated, you know, going back and forth.
She didn't like choosing this parentfor this and that parent for that.
And she,you know, such a cute little thing.
She was just like, can't we just all livetogether and be happy like it was?
Okay, so what do you tell your kids?
What do you tell a kid?
(15:55):
You said, oh, this is a good thing.
You say, don't say that.
You say this is really,really hard on everyone, this situation.
No, no, not the situation.
Does the divorce See, obviously,we did not followed these rules at all.
But the divorce, It's
okay to say that the divorce is really,really hard on everyone in our family.
(16:17):
And Yeah, and we've we've made
these very grown up choicesto divorce as a last resort.
As a last resort,because we want to try and
make our homes right as happy as possible.
So without fightingor discord in the house.
(16:38):
And I actually like how they phrased that.
Yeah. Yeah.
So this was our decisionwas a last resort.
We know it's super hard.
Please come to me and talk to mewhenever you need to.
I'm here for you.
Share your feelingsand we can talk about how hard it is
right.
(17:04):
And softening blow. Yes. Don't worry.
This is, as you're saying,is is a good thing.
You'll get double everythingyou can throw.
Actually, you can.
You can be like, this isn't about youand it's also a good thing.
And you're going to get double everything.
You can throw all of themin at the same time.
That's what people do,all the wrong things.
And once that well, I've even I've even
(17:26):
I was at a conferencethis last week and we were talking
and I said,Yeah, we've gone through a divorce
and we have a podcast about it,the whole thing, and go,
Oh, but your kids get doubleeverything. That even came up.
And I was like, Yeah, they actually do.
And people say that all the time.
And we joke with the kidssometimes when because the kids,
(17:46):
if they are with us Christmas morningand then they have to go to their moms,
they're like,Oh, like we're already exhausted.
We have to do it all over again.
And when they come to our houseon the years
that we're the second housethey're going to, they're like,
We're already tired, like, And we're like,Oh, poor you.
You have done everything.
Yeah, you have to have another Christmas.
But it, itand we actually talked about the kids.
We talked this through Christmasthis year, what with the
(18:10):
with the kids and said, you know, I cansee how that would be really, you know.
Yeah. Everyone's like, oh, poor you.
It's not
you thinkit's going to be this great thing,
but Christmas, you have Christmas morningis and open your presents
and you got up early and then you havebreakfast and guess what?
Now you get to go to another houseand do it all over again.
And you have to be just as excitedand just as happy.
(18:32):
And, you know, it's just like GroundhogDay, right?
You got to do it. Do it over again.
And well, one thing they said,when you say things like this,
you're minimizing the painthat they're going through at that time.
Yeah.And their feelings and their feelings.
So even even this last Christmaswhen the kids were like,
yeah, we're kind of tired.
Well, maybe we should change, you said,Well, you know, stop your complaining.
(18:55):
You get double of everything.
We just negated their feelings again now.
And it's been, you know, 12 years.
So this can happen to families like usthat have been blended for a long time,
that have gone through divorcefor a long time.
You can still make these mistakes.
Yeah, of course. Of course. So
kids,
most kids would rather have two parentsin their house.
(19:18):
Right.
Have your family intactthan to get double everything right.
Like, it's not like kids are like,Oh, yay. I get double everything.
It's they'd rather have their two parents,so just be aware of that.
So instead of sayingyou'll get double everything,
you can emphasize that they're goingto get more quality time with each parent.
Once again, not sugarcoating everything,like, Oh, you know,
(19:40):
but you're going to have so much timewith your dad now, don't sugarcoat it.
But you can definitely emphasize,
right, that you're going to get
you know, there are going to be some
some new things that they coulddo, like, oh, you get to spend
more one on one time with your momor one on one time with your dad.
Right.
You get to have decorate a new room.
(20:03):
Yeah,
it you know,maybe they're sharing a room with someone.
Look, you get you get to,you know, have a playtime all the time.
You know, that's a good way to put itfor the young kids.
They love that. Yes.
For the young kids.
Yeah. Teenagers. Not so. No, no.
But it said to make sure you gettheir feedback when you are like, okay,
we're moving to a new house.
(20:24):
We're going to do your room.
Don't just do their roomwithout their without their opinion,
like they are in controlof not much of their life.
They have little controlover all this stuff happening.
Let them have some control over something,something and let them.
Like I. I draw certain lines, right?
Like you get to you get to veto things,but hey, let's work on this.
(20:47):
What are you thinking?What colors do you like? What do you like?
Talk to themabout what they want their room to be.
And and if there's somethingthat you really don't want,
then come to a compromise.But get their feedback.
Get their feedback. Love it.
Okay, Last one.
The biggest lie of all that we tellkids of divorce, not much will change.
I don't think I ever said this because I.
I don't I don't understandwhy I've heard people say yes,
(21:09):
but I don't think I've ever said thatNot much will change.
Everything's changed.
Your entire lifeliterally just went upside down.
So, yes, that is a lie.
You're now lying to your children.
Well, we can do that, though.
Sometimes we do to try to changethat, Right.
We think we're protecting.
But in essence and I thinkthis whole article really emphasizes
(21:32):
you are minimal,losing your children's feelings
and you're ignoring the factthat if you don't fill in the gaps,
they will with something probably farworse than what the situation really is.
Right.
And this is this not much will change.
This actually is a lie.
And if you're a child,which your children can definitely like,
they know that's a lie.
(21:53):
If you say, oh,not much is going to change.
And so it says if your children knowthat you're lying, which you are,
they are less likely to believe youand trust you in the future.
Right?
Like so try not to say thingsthat are literally a blatant lie.
That is a blatant lie
that has some blatant lie.
(22:15):
Not much will change.
Yes, it will.
Well, and what youwhat you do need to say to them is,
yes, there will be change,but sometimes changes could. Hmm.
There may be more people involvedin your life now, which would be good.
So you try and emphasizethe good things about the change
and recognize the hard things too,that are going to change.
(22:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
There might be some.
Yeah, maybe there's going to besome new fun traditions, right?
That you get to startin, you know, the different household.
But then yeah, also say like, yeah, I'mgoing to be really sad that, you know,
we don't share this with you anymore,but just be honest, be real.
(22:57):
But kids are resilient.
I don't want you to think you've destroyedyour children.
Kids are resilient, but you haveyou have not stopped.
You've not know, you've it's hard.
You have to recognizethat what you're going through is very,
very difficult, not just for you,but for your children as well.
And guess what?
They need tothey need to know that you understand that
(23:19):
it's difficult without yousugarcoating everything all the time.
Yeah, but don't get them in theI mean, you need to point out the positive
that you can write, but also don't
brush under a broad
sweep under the rug.
That's the word. There you go.
Sweep under the rugwhat they're going through.
(23:51):
Okay, Eliminate Mommy.
The week is we're only down to three kidsand our traditional
Valentine Valentine's Day auction dinnerwas a little scarce with just three kids.
Not nearly as much fun.
Yeah, so to take our lemonsand make lemonade, we.
Well, we've actually for yearsnow, we've been inviting our friends
(24:14):
down the street,but only one of their kids could come.
So that still only left four kids.
So we invited acouple of other neighbor kids
to come partake of our Valentine's Dayauction.
And it was awesomebecause these other kids, I wasn't
I wasn't quite surethey could handle the food auction.
Oh, no, they handled it well.
(24:34):
And I was surprised they were out therebidding against what we thought
was going to be the sushi rolls,which we knew Madeleine wanted really bad.
She got outbid and I was shocked.
I was like, Whoa,what do you mean when you say you didn't
think that they could handle the foodor what did you mean?
Well, because it's pretty ruthlessthe way our kids do this.
They've been doing it for years.So they know. Gotcha.
(24:55):
So you just thought they're goingto be surprised at how the kids are like,
I'm I am going to help you.
I am going to help guide you.
I don't care that you arethat I don't care that you want that
or I'm going to I'm going to bidyou higher.
So you spend your money on something now,
because I know there's better thingscoming later.
Yeah. Yeah.
But those kids stepped right inand gave our kids a run for their money.
(25:16):
Oh, it was good stuff.
Our fabulous
research departmentcame up with a great topic for this week.
Oh, our research department is so good.
She is wonderful.
Yes. So
are we saying the wrong things
to our kids about the divorce?
I we did yell when I read this article.
I was like, Huh?
(00:54):
Now, doesn't mean like we've
destroyed our kidsirreversibly destroyed our children.
But I think the point of talking aboutthis is we can do better.
We can help our kids even more.
Like I think we didthe best we could, the best we knew how.
(01:14):
I think we did an okay job.
We can always improve,
but if you're going through this,you know somebody's going through this.
I think that some of these things that
I researched are would just can just helpyour children
get through the divorcea little bit better.
Well, I'm glad you brought up.
It's not just the parentsthat need to be careful what they say.
(01:35):
It's friends of the family.
Grandma and grandpa, aunts and uncles.
It's anyone you know,
These are dumb things you can say tokids are going through a divorce.
Yes, that makes sense.
Yes, exactly. So.
All right. Should we dive right in?
You want to dive right in?
All right.
Let's let's get right to how we can nottraumatize our children as much.
(01:58):
This first one I find very interesting.
It says your dad or your mom,That tiny edition of the word
your creates otherness.
Create creates separation of family or.
Yeah. Part of that other group. Yes.
So yes So Thebaso when you say instead of so
(02:19):
obviously when you're marriedyou say, hey, mom is going to pick you up
today, Dad's going to call you later,Dad's waiting to talk to you.
A lot of people, once they get divorced,
it is now this your mom and
the kids
will say instead of the kidssaying mom is going to pick me up,
(02:41):
they say, my momor my dad is going to pick me up.
So we still do this today.
It's been 12, 12 years.
We still do.
I say you think we do.
I say Mel and gotalk to your mom about that.
Yeah.
Instead of just saying, Madeline,go talk to Mom about that.
All right?
I Well, isn't that interesting?
(03:03):
We destroyed the seven older kids.
I guess we can fix the last three. Yeah.
Yeah, we'll see.
I don't know.
So, yeah, it just says that divorce
does create changesin the family dynamic, obviously.
But honoring how the child sees the parentcan help keep a sense of cohesion.
So it's still your mom, It'sstill your dad.
(03:24):
But adding this your right.
Hey, what does your mom think about thisinstead of what does mom think about that?
Because because you got divorced, itdidn't.
That is still there, Mom.
And that is still there, Dad.
But you're adding something thatyou never did before because you got to.
Well,this goes into another strange thing,
and that iswhat do you call your stepmother?
(03:48):
Right.
We had this problem when we firstwhen we first got married.
Yeah.
Because little tiny David,he was so young.
He was calling you Mom sometimes.
And sometimes he was just for,like, in his mind,
like someone that's loving meand taking care of me is mom.
And so he did say mom for a while,and that can be super
hurtful to the bio parent for sure.
(04:09):
Like, no, I'm mom, you're not.
And but yet it's hardto say to a little kid.
They're not they don't you know,
you don't want to thinkthey're doing something wrong.
So, you know, it's very delicate to go,hey, so don't call me mom.
But it's that's very tricky.
So we came up with funny things.
They called you Storm.
They called you obviously step mom.
(04:31):
So Storm POM pom Paige and Mom?
Yep. POM. Sometimessome of the kids still call me POM.
You have one or two too?
Yeah, most of them just call me Page now.
But when they're little,
like we never told them to call meMom ever.
It just happened.
And then when that naturally occurred,it's hard to go to them and say,
(04:51):
You need to stop doing that.
But we did correct itand but this all goes into that.
I like how they said this.
Your you're emphasizing theyour all that's doing is driving a wedge
even further between the kids in theirand their parents.
Yeah.
And when I say parents I mean both sides.
If you're the one always saying your dador your mom,
(05:12):
you're actually alienating your kidfrom yourself as well.
Yeah. So anyway, so how to fix that?
Stop saying your just saymom is going to pick you up today
or dad is going to give you a call latertoday.
Get rid of the your asking me hard.
It's going to be really hard.
Yeah, but I can totally see.
(05:32):
I will try it. Yeah. We'll give it a shot.
Yeah, I can see where that's coming from.
All right, next one. Bus situation.
It wasn't that a guy.
Wasn't that a band in the eighties?
The situation. Yeah.
Or some rapper called The Situationor something.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, in this case,it does not mean that guy or gal
or a group, someone's going to someone'sgoing to call me or
(05:56):
send me an email and tell me whothe situation was, this situation.
But when you're talking to your friend,
a lot of timesyou want to obfuscate the conversation.
When you're talking about the divorceor the
the child support arrangementsor whatever, anything to do with the new
and the new family dynamics,whatever the case may be.
(06:16):
When you use obfuscated wordslike the situation,
the kids know what you're talking about.
They do.
And the more you are talking in coderight in their mind
and we've talked to our kids about thiswhen they don't have the full picture,
they think usually they're thinkingsomething much worse than it really.
(06:37):
They are very creative.
Yeah, it gets very much worsethan what the real situation.
So obviously,if you're talking with your friend,
maybe beforehandyou should tell your friend,
I don't want to talk about the divorceand what if my kids are in the room
So just you can do that.
But if it does come up,
you can go ahead and say like,how are things going with the divorce?
And obviously,if the kids are in the room, you know,
(06:59):
you should probably say, you know what,you know, we'll talk about this later.
But yeah, talking in code not good.
And I think it's so funny.
So you haven't reallylooked at this right, though?
I had to look up what the word was.
How do you say obfuscate?
Yes, I had to look that up.
Oh, and use the computer to say your.Yeah.
(07:21):
You're using thatlike an everyday term right now.
I had to look it up. So.
Which means that
when you tried to obfuscate,which means like to hide, hide, conceal.
Right, SEAL.
Yes. So yeah, I had to look that word up.
Well, we use it in computers all the time.
That's the only reason I know it.
Well, another thingit said interesting here is, don't there
(07:45):
there's ways to explain the divorcethat are not abstract,
something they can understa.
And remember, you're
dealing with children hereand maybe even adolescents or teenagers.
Still, they will
they will take on their own perceptionand they'll be very creative.
So be very simple and direct and use
use the word divorceinstead of the situation around the kids.
(08:08):
Otherwise they'll create something new.
Yeah, don't talk in codeand you can explain to them
when you're talking about it,you can maybe point out like, Oh,
well, you know, these people who you're,you know and love,
they're divorced, right?
Like, so that they you can point them to
a situation
that is, you know,they don't think is awful.
(08:30):
They're like, oh, wow,I didn't know that they recognized. Yes.
That they recognize.
So it's sadwhen you're trying to explain divorce,
maybetry and use someone that they already know
and love. So, yeah.
So no talking in code either.
Don't talk about it in front of themor use the correct terms, but be
be careful what you sayin front of the children for sure.
(09:00):
Okay.
The next thing that we should not saythat we have said, it's not about you.
What in the world does this mean?
It's not about you?
So like, you know,why are you guys getting divorced?
You know,it was something I did. Or was it?
You know, and you say it's not it?
No, no, it's not.
You're not saying that in a mean wayor a bad way. It's not about you.
It's a no, no, no, sweetie.
(09:21):
It's not about you, right?
It's about Dad and I.
They're saying this.
I colleges are saying,
don't do that.
It's not specific enough.
You need to be more specificon what caused the divorce
just by saying it's not about you.
It's a grown up issue.
Now, I guess what?
The kids are going to go hog wild, crazywith that one.
(09:44):
Well,it says like it's it's your instinct,
right, to keep your childrenfrom thinking they're to blame.
So it's instinctive to say, no, no,it wasn't you.
It says this.
This feels logical, right?
A logical response.
But yes, like you said,it isn't specific enough to cause the.
Well, then what caused it if it wasn't me?
And you're not telling me exactly,then it's causing them anxiety. And.
(10:09):
Well, it's interesting because Dr.
Rubinstein said here, I love this.
He says it's not aboutyou also negates the fact
that the divorce very much involvesthe kids.
Isn't that interesting?
Very much involvesthe kids, Yeah. Yes. So,
yeah, it can wind up complicating.
(10:30):
Right.
Your children's feelings and experiences
and maybe whatthey're willing to share with you. So.
So what do I stay in that?
I mean, you don't want the kid to knowit's their fault
if even if it is, it'snot the kid's fault.
It actually never is the kid's fault.
It says you can exploit.
(10:51):
Like if you don't want to be specific,if you think maybe they're too young
and not able to handle the actual reasonswhy you're getting divorced,
you can explain thatmom and dad aren't getting along
and they don't feellike they can resolve it.
And you can say thatgrownups have adult issues that sometimes
cannot be resolvedeven as hard as they might try.
(11:12):
So something like that. So, yeah.
What do you think about that?
I don't know.
You don't like that?
Well, I kind of do, but then it's almost.
Are you giving your kids permissionto just give up when things get hard?
No, no, I don't think so.
Well, because,I mean, you're kind of saying,
(11:32):
well, Mommy,mommy and daddy can't get along.
So welland they don't feel they can resolve it.
So what do you think you should say?
I don't know.
It's not your fault.
That's be You want to go back to that?
I think so. It's just not your fault.
Let's move on. Well,this is a really hard one.
I mean, when you talk about the divorce,our younger kids have no idea.
(11:56):
I don't think I have no ideawhat why they they are younger kids.
Our younger kids were so youngwhen we got divorced
that they probably had no conceptof what was really going on.
Our older kids understand what happenedwith the divorce, but are younger kids.
I don't think it even clues into them now.
Yeah, this is just been their life.
It's been their life.
(12:17):
So are separate.
So maybe this is for the kids that
went through the divorce that remembergoing through that that time.
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
So it's a that's a tough one.
That is a tough one.
It's a really tough one.
And maybe it just per different kids.
You say different thingsto write different personalities.
(12:38):
You feel likeyou can say different things too.
So I would add to that
make sure that you're not throwingyour ex under the bus
when you talk to the kidsabout the divorce.
Absolutely not.
That is the wrong thing to do.
All that will actually really dois alienate you with your own children.
Yeah.
Now, if they're old enough,you can share some facts with them,
(12:58):
but make sure it's facts and not
your opinion or how you're
feeling or right or your emotions.
So if you want to share some facts,you can if they're old enough.
But be careful.
Yeah. Be careful to be careful.So, yeah, it's tough on.
All right.
This next one,I think is is really horrible.
(13:19):
And I'm glad that they saiddon't say this once again.
I think people say this because they'rethey're trying to soften the blow.
They're trying to soften the blow.
So this phrase that they say to stopsaying is this is a good thing.
So I think some people say thatbecause they're like, you know what,
Mommy and daddyhaven't been happy for a long time
(13:39):
and our family hasn't been happy.
And so this is a good thing.
It is not a good thing.
Maybe in the long termit would be, right? Yes.
And some like maybe if there was abuse, ofcourse, it's going to be a better thing.
Right.We're not talking about those situations.
But but in that from the child'sperspective
and I thought this was very interestingand I truly believe believe this myself,
(14:00):
anyone going through a divorce,
it is a heart wrenching,horrible thing to go through.
Yeah, it is.
And even if you're leavingbecause there's abuse,
you're getting divorcedbecause there's abuse, that
that's a bad thing that you hadthat you had to go through that.
Right.
So from the child's perspective,
in the short term, thisthis is devastating for them.
(14:23):
So for you to come and say, oh,it's a good thing you're actually negating
their feeling of pain that they're havingand you're sweeping it under the rug.
Yes. Right.
When they're like, oh, my gosh,this is awful.
Oh, no, honey, it's a good thing.
Once again, I know people are saying thatwith the good intentions,
but it is sweepingthe pain under the rug, like you're
(14:46):
not allowed to have your feelings,You're not allowed to be sad.
You're not allowed to come and talk to me.
Because when you come and talk to meto share, I'm just going to say
it's a good thing.
And mom and dad don't want to hearwhat I have to say about this right now.
One thing that one thingthat the article said, they said
almost every child wants their parentsto be together under one roof. Yep.
And that's even witheven if one parent is addicted to drugs,
(15:11):
has anger issues, is abusive,
they have found that most childrenstill believe in a fairy tale ending,
that somehow things are going to work outand get better.
Don't you think that's fascinating?
It is.
Don't you remember when we got marriedeven a year or two after
we got married, Madeline wanted us all.
She would be like, Oh, can we just livenext door to each other and can't we?
(15:33):
Like, she wanted to.
She wanted us to make one big houseand have us all live together
because she hated choosing.
She hated, you know, going back and forth.
She didn't like choosing this parentfor this and that parent for that.
And she,you know, such a cute little thing.
She was just like, can't we just all livetogether and be happy like it was?
Okay, so what do you tell your kids?
What do you tell a kid?
(15:55):
You said, oh, this is a good thing.
You say, don't say that.
You say this is really,really hard on everyone, this situation.
No, no, not the situation.
Does the divorce See, obviously,we did not followed these rules at all.
But the divorce, It's
okay to say that the divorce is really,really hard on everyone in our family.
(16:17):
And Yeah, and we've we've made
these very grown up choicesto divorce as a last resort.
As a last resort,because we want to try and
make our homes right as happy as possible.
So without fightingor discord in the house.
(16:38):
And I actually like how they phrased that.
Yeah. Yeah.
So this was our decisionwas a last resort.
We know it's super hard.
Please come to me and talk to mewhenever you need to.
I'm here for you.
Share your feelingsand we can talk about how hard it is
right.
(17:04):
And softening blow. Yes. Don't worry.
This is, as you're saying,is is a good thing.
You'll get double everythingyou can throw.
Actually, you can.
You can be like, this isn't about youand it's also a good thing.
And you're going to get double everything.
You can throw all of themin at the same time.
That's what people do,all the wrong things.
And once that well, I've even I've even
(17:26):
I was at a conferencethis last week and we were talking
and I said,Yeah, we've gone through a divorce
and we have a podcast about it,the whole thing, and go,
Oh, but your kids get doubleeverything. That even came up.
And I was like, Yeah, they actually do.
And people say that all the time.
And we joke with the kidssometimes when because the kids,
(17:46):
if they are with us Christmas morningand then they have to go to their moms,
they're like,Oh, like we're already exhausted.
We have to do it all over again.
And when they come to our houseon the years
that we're the second housethey're going to, they're like,
We're already tired, like, And we're like,Oh, poor you.
You have done everything.
Yeah, you have to have another Christmas.
But it, itand we actually talked about the kids.
We talked this through Christmasthis year, what with the
(18:10):
with the kids and said, you know, I cansee how that would be really, you know.
Yeah. Everyone's like, oh, poor you.
It's not
you thinkit's going to be this great thing,
but Christmas, you have Christmas morningis and open your presents
and you got up early and then you havebreakfast and guess what?
Now you get to go to another houseand do it all over again.
And you have to be just as excitedand just as happy.
(18:32):
And, you know, it's just like GroundhogDay, right?
You got to do it. Do it over again.
And well, one thing they said,when you say things like this,
you're minimizing the painthat they're going through at that time.
Yeah.And their feelings and their feelings.
So even even this last Christmaswhen the kids were like,
yeah, we're kind of tired.
Well, maybe we should change, you said,Well, you know, stop your complaining.
(18:55):
You get double of everything.
We just negated their feelings again now.
And it's been, you know, 12 years.
So this can happen to families like usthat have been blended for a long time,
that have gone through divorcefor a long time.
You can still make these mistakes.
Yeah, of course. Of course. So
kids,
most kids would rather have two parentsin their house.
(19:18):
Right.
Have your family intactthan to get double everything right.
Like, it's not like kids are like,Oh, yay. I get double everything.
It's they'd rather have their two parents,so just be aware of that.
So instead of sayingyou'll get double everything,
you can emphasize that they're goingto get more quality time with each parent.
Once again, not sugarcoating everything,like, Oh, you know,
(19:40):
but you're going to have so much timewith your dad now, don't sugarcoat it.
But you can definitely emphasize,
right, that you're going to get
you know, there are going to be some
some new things that they coulddo, like, oh, you get to spend
more one on one time with your momor one on one time with your dad.
Right.
You get to have decorate a new room.
(20:03):
Yeah,
it you know,maybe they're sharing a room with someone.
Look, you get you get to,you know, have a playtime all the time.
You know, that's a good way to put itfor the young kids.
They love that. Yes.
For the young kids.
Yeah. Teenagers. Not so. No, no.
But it said to make sure you gettheir feedback when you are like, okay,
we're moving to a new house.
(20:24):
We're going to do your room.
Don't just do their roomwithout their without their opinion,
like they are in controlof not much of their life.
They have little controlover all this stuff happening.
Let them have some control over something,something and let them.
Like I. I draw certain lines, right?
Like you get to you get to veto things,but hey, let's work on this.
(20:47):
What are you thinking?What colors do you like? What do you like?
Talk to themabout what they want their room to be.
And and if there's somethingthat you really don't want,
then come to a compromise.But get their feedback.
Get their feedback. Love it.
Okay, Last one.
The biggest lie of all that we tellkids of divorce, not much will change.
I don't think I ever said this because I.
I don't I don't understandwhy I've heard people say yes,
(21:09):
but I don't think I've ever said thatNot much will change.
Everything's changed.
Your entire lifeliterally just went upside down.
So, yes, that is a lie.
You're now lying to your children.
Well, we can do that, though.
Sometimes we do to try to changethat, Right.
We think we're protecting.
But in essence and I thinkthis whole article really emphasizes
(21:32):
you are minimal,losing your children's feelings
and you're ignoring the factthat if you don't fill in the gaps,
they will with something probably farworse than what the situation really is.
Right.
And this is this not much will change.
This actually is a lie.
And if you're a child,which your children can definitely like,
they know that's a lie.
(21:53):
If you say, oh,not much is going to change.
And so it says if your children knowthat you're lying, which you are,
they are less likely to believe youand trust you in the future.
Right?
Like so try not to say thingsthat are literally a blatant lie.
That is a blatant lie
that has some blatant lie.
(22:15):
Not much will change.
Yes, it will.
Well, and what youwhat you do need to say to them is,
yes, there will be change,but sometimes changes could. Hmm.
There may be more people involvedin your life now, which would be good.
So you try and emphasizethe good things about the change
and recognize the hard things too,that are going to change.
(22:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
There might be some.
Yeah, maybe there's going to besome new fun traditions, right?
That you get to startin, you know, the different household.
But then yeah, also say like, yeah, I'mgoing to be really sad that, you know,
we don't share this with you anymore,but just be honest, be real.
(22:57):
But kids are resilient.
I don't want you to think you've destroyedyour children.
Kids are resilient, but you haveyou have not stopped.
You've not know, you've it's hard.
You have to recognizethat what you're going through is very,
very difficult, not just for you,but for your children as well.
And guess what?
They need tothey need to know that you understand that
(23:19):
it's difficult without yousugarcoating everything all the time.
Yeah, but don't get them in theI mean, you need to point out the positive
that you can write, but also don't
brush under a broad
sweep under the rug.
That's the word. There you go.
Sweep under the rugwhat they're going through.
(23:51):
Okay, Eliminate Mommy.
The week is we're only down to three kidsand our traditional
Valentine Valentine's Day auction dinnerwas a little scarce with just three kids.
Not nearly as much fun.
Yeah, so to take our lemonsand make lemonade, we.
Well, we've actually for yearsnow, we've been inviting our friends
(24:14):
down the street,but only one of their kids could come.
So that still only left four kids.
So we invited acouple of other neighbor kids
to come partake of our Valentine's Dayauction.
And it was awesomebecause these other kids, I wasn't
I wasn't quite surethey could handle the food auction.
Oh, no, they handled it well.
(24:34):
And I was surprised they were out therebidding against what we thought
was going to be the sushi rolls,which we knew Madeleine wanted really bad.
She got outbid and I was shocked.
I was like, Whoa,what do you mean when you say you didn't
think that they could handle the foodor what did you mean?
Well, because it's pretty ruthlessthe way our kids do this.
They've been doing it for years.So they know. Gotcha.
(24:55):
So you just thought they're goingto be surprised at how the kids are like,
I'm I am going to help you.
I am going to help guide you.
I don't care that you arethat I don't care that you want that
or I'm going to I'm going to bidyou higher.
So you spend your money on something now,
because I know there's better thingscoming later.
Yeah. Yeah.
But those kids stepped right inand gave our kids a run for their money.
(25:16):
Oh, it was good stuff.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.