Reshuffling Priorities to Prioritize Our Humanity With Belinda Clemmensen

Women can reshape the world. It’s time to challenge societal norms, particularly the undervaluing of women's contributions, including caregiving and household work, and it’s time for women to support each other and advocate for a more equitable distribution of household labor to empower women as leaders. After all, supporting one another is the key to achieving true power and equality. We have the ability to make an impact!

In this podcast episode, Belinda Ellsworth, host of "Work From Your Happy Place," interviews Belinda Clemmensen, founder of the Women's Leadership Intensive, discussing the challenges women face in society and the workplace, the undervaluing of caregiving and household work, and the need for women to support each other. Belinda Clemmensen provides tips for women to rise as leaders and emphasizes the importance of reshuffling priorities and promoting equality. She also shares her own superpowers and skills and talks about her proud achievement of starting a women-centered organization. Belinda Clemmensen advises giving oneself time to understand the business and shares her upcoming projects.


Key Learnings from the Episode:
[00:03:14] Belinda Clemmensen's background and journey
[00:13:06] The undervaluing of women's work
[00:14:50] Supporting and empowering women
[00:24:13]Identifying personal strengths
[00:35:24] Belinda's advice for starting a business


About Belinda Clemmensen A change-maker, Belinda Clemmensen believes women are not only capable of changing the world, they will be a driving force in making it happen. When we look out at the world, we see that change is needed and we can help.

This passionate belief is what drives Belinda as a leadership development professional and what led her to build the Women's Leadership Intensive; our mission to inspire, empower, support, and equip women to lead the change the world needs.

Many women feel we don't fit the traditional leadership box. We know we have more to contribute, but it’s not always easy to reach that potential. As a leader, it is essential to know who you are and lead as YOU.

With over 25 years of experience Belinda has helped leaders step into their potential and connect to a place of purpose where their unique strengths can serve to make organizations and communities better.

In addition to founding WLI, Belinda is a proud co-founder of the Leader Coach Intensive, a unique program that builds world-class coaches – Tomorrow’s Leaders Today.


Current Promotion/Link Mentioned in the Podcast: https://www.womensleadershipintensive.ca/book


How To Connect With Belinda Clemmensen Instagram https://www.instagram.com/womens.leadership.intensive/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/womensleadershipintensive LinkeIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/belinda-clemmensen-6aa94014/


About the Host -
Belinda Ellsworth is a Speaker, Trainer, Best-Selling Author, and Podcaster

She has been a professional speaker, mover, and shaker for over 25 years. Having built three successful companies, she has helped thousands of entrepreneurs make better decisions, create successful systems, and build business strategies using her "Four Pillars of Success" system.

Belinda has always had a passion and zest for life, with the skill for turning dreams into reality.

How to Connect with Belinda:

Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/workfromyourhappyplace
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/belindaellsworth
Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/workfromyourhappyplace/
Website - www.workfromyourhappyplace.com

Join my membership program and discover the art of creating and sharing amazing experiences with like-minded people, all from the comfort of your o

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Work from Your Happy Plays, the podcast that equips you with the
knowledge and inspiration to live your dreamsand find your own happy plays. You
will be encouraged by and learn fromentrepreneurs and artists who are already working from
their happy plays, all while pursuingtheir passion with a purpose. Be sure

(00:20):
to sign up for our free weeklynewsletter for our recap of the week's guests
and a preview of what's in store. We also have two special gifts for
you, a video, the fivefour Principles to living a half year life,
and a printable download title Top tensales Strategies. Go to work for
your happy place dot com, forwardslash free. Fill out the attached form

(00:43):
to receive your gifts and be addedto our newsletter. And now here's your
host, Belinda Ellsworth. Hi,it's Belinda here, and before we get
started with today's show, I'd liketo tell you about some exciting things coming
soon that I think you're gonna love. After over five hundred episodes, we've
discovered so many tips, tools andbits of knowledge that we want to share

(01:06):
it all with you. So thisspring, we are launching a brand new
online community and quarterly subscription box.Here's how it works. Each quarter,
you'll receive an amazing box full ofitems to bring you happiness in both work
and in life. Each box includesitems designed by entrepreneurs just like yourself for
your home, office, personal care, and so much more. It will

(01:29):
also contain a business book and ourActs of Kindness sharables so you can show
appreciation to your customers and anyone whoneeds to be lifted up. In the
months between box deliveries, you'll learnfrom an amazing community of business owners.
Included guided trainings on business skills andpersonal development, a book club that features
Q and a time directly with thatmonth's author, and a monthly featured guest

(01:53):
from whom you'll learn strategies to growyour own business. You'll learn from one
another through our private group as wellas our live Q and a session where
you can get all of your questionsanswered. Sound exciting? How would you
like a free six month subscription toenter? Get on our VIP list by
going to work from your happy placedot com forward slash vip. Now,

(02:14):
sit back, relax and enjoy today'sshow. Hello everyone, Today I'm here
with Belinda Clementson and she is anauthor and founder. A change maker,
she believes women are not only capableof changing the world, they will be
a driving force in making it happen. Belinda is a leadership development professional and
what led her to build the Women'sLeadership Intensive. With over twenty five years

(02:37):
of experience, Belinda has helped leadersstep into their potential and connect to a
place of purpose. She is alsoa proud co founder of the Leader Coach
Intensive, a unique program that buildsworld class coaches tomorrow's leaders today. It
is my pleasure to welcome Belinda toour show today. Thank you so much,
Belinda. It's great to be here. Wow, it's so much fun.

(02:59):
We were just taught. Okay,we don't run into too many belindas
so having having someone on my showis so it's interesting and unique and kind
of just strange. I gotta say, yeah, I agreed. I don't
think I have anyone else in mycircle who's named Belinda as well. So
yeah, yeah, So two powerhouseshere we go. Let's just dive in

(03:21):
and give us a little bit ofyour background and kind of what led you
to what you're doing today and alittle bit on that journey. Yeah.
So I've been doing leadership development myentire career. I kind of fell into
it, to be honest, andthen fell in love with it. I
wasn't doing a science program. Ihave a biology degree, which I've never
worked a day in biology. Butalong that journey I found sort of outdoor

(03:46):
education which took me into leadership education, which led me down this road of
leadership development practice. And I've alwaysloved it. But I have to say,
about eight or nine years ago,I started to really question what I
was doing because I was working fora lot of organizations and corporations, helping

(04:06):
them with their leadership development. ButI kept asking myself, do I believe
in what they're leading? Do Ibelieve in the way they're really leading in
this corporation or in the more sortof capitalist system that we're living and working
in. And I I couldn't sortof unsee the inequities that I was seeing

(04:27):
in organizations anymore. I couldn't unseethe gender roles. I couldn't unsee the
fact that almost the entire C suitewas middle aged, white man. I
couldn't, And so I started tohave trouble reconciling that with the work that
I was doing. And so Itsort of led me to what I call
a crisis of consciousness, where Iwondered, you know, am I really
doing with my life what I wantto be doing. Even though I had

(04:49):
valued my work, I felt likeI'd done great work over the course of
my career with great people, itjust stopped being a good fit at a
certain point ethically and sort of interms of social justice. And so that
sort of got me down a fewyears of really not knowing. You know,

(05:10):
I knew if it wasn't that,then what would it be right?
If not doing that work, thenwhat work would be fulfilling? What would
feel more aligned with my personal mission? And it took me several years to
kind of land on the fact thatif I wanted to support leaders, the
leaders I wanted to support were women. And that sort of came from my

(05:33):
own personal experiences in my life ofdoing projects with groups of women leaders,
but also from digging into research andstarting to understand better the actual gender and
equities that exist and the well researchedbenefits of having more women in leadership roles.

(05:55):
So even though the business case ispretty watertight for having gender equity and
leadership, we're still nowhere near there. No, we're not, and nobody
really wants to address it like,I mean really address it, like or
talk about it, I guess isa better way. Like no one wants
to have a casual conversation about itor recognize or how do you get through

(06:20):
it? How do you work throughit? So I'd love to hear a
little bit of your data and researchon like what makes women better leaders.
I'd love to hear some of thatto start. Yeah, well, I
think you're right. I think youknow, the digging into these conversations makes
people uncomfortable. And I don't knowif that's just all change processes make people

(06:42):
uncomfortable, or if it's this onein particular, but certainly, you know,
the research on the inequities is easyto find, right So you know,
for example, Fortune five hundred,we'd just hit ten percent women CEOs
of Fortune five hundred companies in twentytwenty three, Right, so ten percent.

(07:02):
That's where we're sitting. And youmight say, like, Okay,
being a CEO of a Fortune fivehundred company isn't something I aspire to be.
However, we can't deny that thosepeople have incredible impact and influence in
our world. Right. They influencepolicy, they influence economics, they influence
resource consumption and waste disposal, andemployee experience and huge customer bases. So

(07:26):
women are primarily excluded from that.We know that, you know, women
are sitting somewhere just under thirty percentin politics. For example, Globally,
women are doing two thirds as muchunpaid labor and domestic and caregiving work as
men. So all of that datais pretty easy to find. And partly
the fact that I knew it becauseI'd looked for it, but a lot

(07:50):
of other people didn't know it,that led me to write the book in
the first place. And what's thename of your book. The book's called
Women Leadership and Saving the World.Oh, I love that so much.
Yeah, it subtitles why Everything getsBetter when Women Lead? And that's that's
really the answer to your next questionor your first question there, which is

(08:11):
what is it that women do differentlythat makes them better leaders? That women
naturally take a multi stakeholder view becausenature or nurture, I'm not sure which
it is, but most women Iknow are in a in a life situation
where some form of multitasking is theirnorms. Most women have a life experience

(08:35):
where they do have multiple stakeholders thatthey're that they're responsible too, and that
they're considering all the time. Andso what that means is that women have
a bit more of a three sixtydegree viewpoint around stakeholders. So, you
know, if we think about businessin the past has sort of been shareholder
as the only important stakeholder was kindof the way we set things up into

(09:00):
days world. The leadership responsibilities noware much more complicated than that, Right,
we have responsibilities to the community,we have responsibilities to the environment and
sustainability. We can't ignore all ofthose multiple stakeholders in the way that we
may have been able to do inthe past. So women bring that skill
set to the table. Women also, whether learned or inherent, have a

(09:24):
lot of strong interpersonal and emotional intelligenceskill sets that are critical to leadership,
right, things like empathy and understandingothers, being able to communicate, being
able to sit with people's feelings andtheir mental health challenges in a way that

(09:45):
wasn't an expectation of leadership in thepast, but it is today. Wow,
so true. I find that it'swhere does the real I certainly have
had issues myself throughout these years ofand again some people are like, oh,
that's not how it really is,or like people don't think it's really

(10:09):
like that in whatever real world theyconsider. But I'm like, oh,
yeah, yeah, it is,even in contract work or wherever it may
be, even with speakers. Iremember being on the same stage for I
actually spoke for quite a bit longerbecause I had a presentation in the morning,

(10:33):
and then I had a presentation afterlunch, and then this individual was
kind of somewhere in between, verywell known, and and the CEO,
who was also kind of friends withme, sort of let it slip what
they paid him. Yeah, andit was three times what they had negotiated

(10:54):
and paid me. And and Ijust it happens all of the time.
And women do it to women too, and women don't when you talk about
it to another woman, they kindof feel like, well, that's just
the way it is, and itisn't or it doesn't have to be,
and and it shouldn't be, andyet it continues to be, and it's

(11:18):
very frustrating. It's very frustrating.The thing I have found the most frustrating.
And and some people are like,oh, they act like you're just
whining about it, do you knowwhat I mean? That's why when I
say people don't want to address it, they really don't. But I've always
looked really really young for my age, Like going all the way back into

(11:41):
my twenties, I looked like Iwas thirteen. And so this continued when
I first was a professional speaker inmy mid thirties. You know, I
had people saying, oh, well, when you're a little older. It
was almost like I'd be valued morewhen I got a little older and wiser
and my time was coming. Youknow what, when my time came,
now they're saying, we want someonea little younger. They don't value women

(12:07):
that they've aged. They don't lookat a man as they're wiser. They
don't look at a woman as beingwiser. They look at their unrelatable And
it's I don't know what what canbe done about it? Like serious,
I know that this is your fieldand this is what you're forging forward with,
and but like, what can reallybe done about the whole thing?

(12:28):
Or when is the shift going tohappen? We're still we're twenty twenty three,
and it's still ten percent of womenare fortune five hundred you know,
yeah, exactly, and I meanI absolutely feel your frustration, and I
echo the frustration. I know exactlywhat it feels like to also have to

(12:48):
bring these issues to the surface andhave them be dismissed, which is a
great technique for not having to dealwith them. You know, I think
there's a fundamentally, there's a dshift that has to happen and how we
value things that aren't been considered feminized. So, you know, the work
that women have always done has alwaysbeen undervalued. Caregiving work, household work,

(13:13):
all of those things to the pointwhere they didn't even weren't even counted
in economic models, and they certainlyweren't paid in terms of those kinds of
work. So it was all thework of men that was valued in our
economic systems and in our society.And so of course when we get underneath
some of these things, we haveto start shifting our fundamental valuing of people

(13:39):
to say that the things that womendo, the things that women bring to
the table, are equally as valuable. And I mean, if the pandemic
taught us nothing, it taught usthe value of care work, right,
And so this idea that we cansomehow run a society just on for profit
corporations and not worry about social systemsor caregiving work, whether that's healthcare,

(14:03):
childcare, elder care, etc.Is an illusion. It's just not true.
And so I think it's it's afundamental shifting of our social values to
start to value different kinds of contributionsand different people's contributions in different ways.
That's I think the underneath piece.And I think women need to value ourselves

(14:26):
as well, which is part ofwhat you're talking about, which is,
you know, we have women whoare also discriminating against other women because they
are also have been raised in thesystem that does that, so they think
it's normal to do it. Thathas to shift because that's a huge betrayal.
Right, So women not supporting womenis a is a bigger betrayal than

(14:48):
men not supporting women. And yetI see it just as often, sometimes
more, sometimes more. No,you know what it is. I think
men do it the scenes, andwomen will do it right too your face.
I mean like they'll say it it'scrazy, But yes, women have

(15:09):
got to stand up and they've gotto start saying like, we've got to
be in this together. And whywould I go why would I choose this
man's opinion over this woman's versus who'squalified, Like the man could be very
much more qualified, but in manycases he is not. Yeah, well,
and I think you're you're absolutely rightabout this idea of we need to

(15:31):
come together as women and support otherwomen, because you know, there's a
couple of reasons why that's been discouragedby the systems we live in. One
is there's been this sense of competition. So if there's only ten percent of
women's CEOs allowed at the table,then we're going to fight for that ten
percent spots. Right. What weneed to be thinking about is how do

(15:52):
we widen the pie for all women? Yeah, not just how do we
fight for the little spots that arethere. The other end of it is
that we have been taught that ifwe align ourselves with men, we will
have more power and we will besafer in the systems that exist because men
are the ones who have historically hadthe power, and so a lot of
women align themselves with men because thenyou have proximity to power, you're close

(16:18):
to it, but it's an illusionbecause you still don't truly have it.
Right. You have to do,you have to tow the line and do
what they tell you in order tokeep it. Otherwise you're out. So
it's an illusion of safety, it'san illusion of power, and I think
it's time that we start waking upto that reality and start aligning ourselves to

(16:41):
truly support other women and other equitydeserving groups. Right, If I think
it will be women coming together whocreate more equal and equitable systems and societies,
no one else can do it.No, I agree, So are
some things then that women can do? Give us three tips on some things

(17:03):
that women can do to sort offind their way into leadership or to rise
up to be in the leader thatthey inherently could be. Yeah, exactly.
So, I think the first thingis Gloria Steinham has this great quote
which is essentially I might get itwrong, but it's essentially this idea that
men will women will not be equaloutside of the home until men are equal

(17:27):
in it. And so it's thisidea that equality begins at home for women
because if we don't have more equitabledistribution of household labor, then it is
impossible for us to make the stridesthat we might want to in our professional
lives, right, because we justdon't have the time, we don't have
the energy, we don't have themental bandwidth. And women who do that,

(17:51):
who balance both of those things runthemselves really hard. So it's not
impossible. But man is a hardwork. It's much harder work than it
is for your male colleagues to dothe same, And soolutely don't you think
that has shifted? That is theone shift I would probably say that I've
honestly seen more of. And maybeit's just because it's in my own household

(18:15):
and a few of my other friendshouseholds, But am I crazy in thinking
that has shifted more. We're gettingthere. We're getting there, especially in
you know, European and North Americansocieties. We are getting better on that.
Globally, We're still we still havea long way to go, sure,
but we're we're not there yet interms of actual equality on a couple

(18:38):
levels. There's there's new data thatI was just looking at today that's showing
that we're getting closer in terms ofequality on household chores, but we're not
there yet on caregiving work, whetherthat's childcare or elder care or you know,
anyone else who might require it inour communities. So women are still
doing more of that caregiving work,even though the housework is starting to even

(19:00):
out a little bit better. Yes, agreed. And then the other piece
that's unaccounted for is the mental loadthat women carry. So this is like
remembering that you don't have toilet paper. This is remembering that you need to
buy broccoli for dinner tomorrow. Thisis trying to figure out what to even
make for dinner every single day.This is remembering that your grandmother's birthday is

(19:22):
coming up and you need to senda card or buy a cake or do
it's all of that kind of stuff, Or that it's your colleague's birthday at
work and hey, we should dosomething for that person. Or somebody was
upset a couple of days ago atwork and you should check in with that
person. Right. It's remembering andtracking all of these things that create a

(19:44):
huge mental load for women. Thatmeans that we're taking up a lot of
bandwidth with that stuff that men justaren't taking up the same amount in their
own minds. They have more freedommentally to be able to think or or
just to be able to rest.Frankly, yes, okay, so I
got you off your your your threetips. So we had said more equality

(20:08):
in the home. What are someother things that they can do? Right?
Equality at the in the home isone. Surround yourself with people who
truly support you. That's number two. You know, So, as you
said, you've had these experiences whereyou've raised something and you've been dismissed,
or you've even had women colleagues orfriends or whoever they might be, who
don't support you when you're when you'retalking about your your actual lived experience,

(20:32):
which is true for you, right, that's really what happened. So it's
finding a group of people that thatwill understand a firm and validate what you're
talking about when you're talking to them, so that you don't then also have
to wonder am I crazy? Right? Just experience I talked about it and

(20:52):
everyone told me it wasn't true,or it wasn't like that, or that
wasn't really the way the world is. Now I'm questioning myself again, right,
So we want to move away fromthat and move towards where you go
and are able to talk to peopleabout your experiences and they say, oh
my god, yeah I get it, I get that, I hear you.
I think it's also I mean,this is crazy, but I'm just

(21:15):
going to bring it up like andthis women do this to women as well,
because I don't think men do thisas much to women. But like
a man can show up and work, he can look whatever he wants to
look like, show up whatever hewants to wear. And yet we are
you know, we're we've gotten Areour hair isn't done right? Like women

(21:36):
are so critical of she's getting old? Are her hair isn't this way?
Did you see what she was wearing? It's like, my goodness, when
are we gonna stop being so?How can we ever get ahead if we're
going to do nothing but be criticalof one another and tear each other down?
And why is it that the morebeautiful that someone is, the more
likes they're going to get on Instagramversus the smarter that they are or the

(22:02):
tips that they're sharing. I justI'm blown away. And we've even sort
of did some of our own kindof research on that as far as social
media gals. I had the scalethat is super sharp but also very very
pretty. And so when she wouldjust dress like more conservatively and go on

(22:25):
there and give some really great information, hardly anybody would like it. But
if she wore something extremely provocative andshared an idea or tip, she got
five times the amount of likes andcomments. And I just don't even I
don't. And this isn't just mendoing this, This is predominantly women doing

(22:49):
this as well. Yeah, andthis is it. I mean, the
objectification of women has been internalized inour society across the board. Right,
So men objected by women, womenobject by women. Women objectify ourselves,
right, all of the external judgmentsthat we put on ourselves, we're doing
it to ourselves too. And soagain this is like, I think,

(23:11):
it's like a deep dismantling that needsto happen, where we are valuing ourselves
and each other for our humanity,for our contribution, right as opposed to
seeing ourselves as these objects that needto be perfected, which, by the
way, is a huge economic machine, because women then spend a lot of

(23:33):
time and money doing all the thingsrequired to stay inside the lines, right,
to stay look in a certain way, to keep your body a certain
weight, to try to make surethat you're appropriate when you show up in
this setting or that setting, toanti age, et cetera, et cetera.
Et cetera. So I often thinklike if we took all the money

(23:55):
we spent on weight loss in NorthAmerica and put it towards and eradicating poverty,
we'd be in a way better spot. Right, Like, we've we've
got to reshuffle the priorities here andstart to put our humanity first. Wow,
it's a great conversation. So let'slet's continue with for yourself. So

(24:26):
in this journey, everybody's got sortof their superpowers or their skill sets.
What have you sort of identified asyours that have really helped you in your
in your journey? Yeah, Imean I think I work hard to make
complex things digestible, and I thinkthat's probably just my own mental process first

(24:48):
and foremost, I make it digestiblefor myself. And then I think I'm
able to communicate concepts well, whichin my line of work about you know,
doing leadership training and writing is reallyhelped. I also think there's something
to you know, just straight upperseverance and being able to stick with something

(25:10):
long enough because you know the ideas, and being a visionary. To me,
those things are critical if you wantto you know, be an entrepreneur
or do meaningful work or whatever itis. But those are I really think
those are a small percentage of thetotal, you know. So it's like
great to have the concept, theidea of the vision, but the majority

(25:32):
of the work is showing up andputting one foot in front of the other
and learning and sticking with it.And I think I'm a fairly committed person.
Once I decide I'm doing something,I'm able to stick it out.
Great, So tell me about somethingthat you're really proud of. What's a
project, accomplishment, something that you'vebeen part of that you're super proud of.

(26:00):
Years ago in let me see,I was thirty years old, so
like twenty three years ago, Istarted my first women centered organization. It
was a volunteer based organization and itwas a fundraising project where we raised money
for breast cancer research. And itwas expedition based, so we took breast

(26:26):
cancer survivors and their supporters on kayakingtrips in the wilderness, which was just
a passion of mine at the time. Anyway, through that project, we
did a couple of amazing things.We raised almost a million dollars, which
feels well great. We took hundredsof people into the wilderness, to have
like truly healing, community based experiences, life changing stuff. And we also

(26:53):
operated as a truly feminist women basedorganization and that was a cool experiment because
we did things so differently than whatwe had seen before. We learned a
lot. It wasn't all perfect,but it really showed me that, you
know, there's lots of ways tobuild an organization, and we tend to

(27:15):
always default to this sort of samemodel over and over again, and we
don't have to. We could trynew things, absolutely, And I just
have to say I love it thatyou answered that very succinctly and so quickly,
because this is a hard question fora lot of people. Tell me

(27:37):
something you're proud of. I've evenlike reworked it in different ways. And
recently I was listening to a wholepodcast on being able to brag or be
proud of something, and yet there'sthis connotation of being proud isn't a good
thing, and it's like we needto stand up for ourselves and say,
this is what I did and itwas really awesome and this was the result

(28:00):
of it, and it really shapedmy life, for it impacted a lot
of people, and I'm super proudof that work and it is important.
It's why one of the reasons Iasked the question. But I will tell
you, in the six years ofdoing this, that people struggle with that
question. And I'm so thankful thatyou just answered that without even a hesitation.

(28:22):
Some people roll their eyes or sayoh, like almost apologetically giving their
answer, and I don't even knowthat people realize they do it. But
so interesting to me about this too, is that for me, that experience
of doing something that felt very fulfillingand that I'm proud of has been a
huge motivator for me to do moreof that, which sans a huge motivator

(28:47):
for me to then have more positiveimpact if I can, right, or
at least try to. And soI think if we withhold ourselves from being
able to feel proud about things,I wonder if we're also with holding ourselves
from moving into those spaces where wecan have more positive impact, where we
can be more more fulfilled but alsomake a bigger contribution. Gosh, that's

(29:10):
an interesting dissection or topic in itself, isn't it. Yeah, we could
go So I don't know how somany rabbit holes I know, right,
But I think you're right because itis a struggle, and it's and a
lot of people women and of course, I mean, I think anybody that

(29:32):
has children would say that, buteverybody resorts too well. I guess I'd
have to say or I would beremiss if I didn't say my kids.
It's like, no, tell meabout a project. That's why I did
change that, Like tell me aproject or a key of pain or something
that you were part of, becausethat is ninety percent before I started switching
that up a little bit, thatwas the number one answer that women felt

(29:53):
they had to give or they itdidn't like they were somehow not being true
to themselves, are being honest orbeing a good mom. It's the most
interesting thing to me. Yeah,or fear that they would be judged if
they didn't say that, right,Sure, that's what it is. Kids
first, Yeah, Oh my goodness. So then let's talk about the polar

(30:15):
opposite of that. What's a challengethat you have faced in sort of moving
forging this path for women in leadership. What's one of the biggest challenges that
you've faced, And then how areyou working through that or did you work
through it? I think it's workin progress for me. I am a
fairly quiet, introverted person at mycore. It's not the work I do.

(30:37):
The work I do is in theworld and using my voice, and
so I think there's always a bitof a push pull for me of there's
a temptation for me to just stayquiet about things, keep it kind of
small. And I've had to reallywork at using my voice, finding those
deeper motivations to use my voice totry to make some kind of a difference

(31:03):
and to put myself out there.And yeah, I go back and forth
between loving that and being terrified aboutit. You know, it's I do
know, I love it. Ilove what you're doing, so I appreciate
it very much. You know,this conversation today has inspired me because I'm

(31:27):
at a crossroad of my life whereI'm doing something new and it's always been
super safe in another space where I'vebeen although it's not been easy. It's
been safe, but it hasn't beeneasy. Everybody needs to understand that there's
a difference. But now it doesn'tfeel safe and it's still not easy.

(31:47):
So then I wake up every daygoing I'm critical of me. Like when
you said women have to stop beingcritical of themselves. I'm like, I
don't want to go on Instagram becauseI don't want to be judged and look
and everything, and I've just gotto get over it. Like I'm I'm
having an internal struggle myself with whatI know I need to do to move

(32:07):
this new project forward, to getpeople's to get people's eyes on it,
to make people aware of it,to really come into my own They're not
just going to find you by themselves, right, And and yet it's in
those struggles of ages and just thosethings that it's hard. Yeah, it's

(32:30):
hard internal struggle every day. Andtoday I'm like, okay, this is
it, Like your inspiration, youryour conversation today has inspired me that I
need to get over my own self. Like the only one really holding me
back is well, there's other peopleholding you back, but the biggest person
holding me back is me. Yeah, And I think you know, there's

(32:52):
two things that I rely on here. One is what's your why? Right?
So I ask myself that question too, is like if there's a bigger
motivation for me that helps me getover my own stuff, because I'm like,
Okay, I'm trying to do somethingthat matters. So that's one piece
of it, and I think,you know, the other piece of it

(33:12):
is is in the how. Soit's like, maybe you do have to
go on Instagram. Maybe that's thewhat you have to do. I don't
know. Yeah, But then thequestion the interesting question. I think the
next interesting question is, Okay,how do I want to do that?
Can I do it in a waythat feels like me, that feels aligned
with my own values and my ownyou know, bigger purpose. And I

(33:37):
think there's more wiggle room there thanwe give ourselves credit for. Sometimes in
terms of the how. You know, there's such a box that the world
says, Okay, this is howyou have to do Instagram, this is
how you have to do writing abook, this is how you have to
do running a business. And Isay not necessarily. Yeah. I love
that get people really thinking and havingthat conversation. So what does working from

(34:01):
your happy place mean to you?I think, you know, if I'm
being honest about that, it's whenI have a bit of freedom in my
life to truly be creative, havea bit of fun. I have a

(34:21):
tendency to be a nose to thegrindstone person. I think I came by
it honestly, it's in my family, Like I learned it at my dad's
knee. You know, I justwork and that's great because it's productive,
but it does it's not the roadto happiness for me. The road to
happiness, I think just has alittle bit more space, a little bit
more freedom, more breathing room,a little bit more creativity. Absolutely,

(34:49):
And what advice would you give toothers kind of wanting to forge their own
way, whether it's it's female,male, It's like, it's scary to
leave that job, Like you cameto a crossroad of yes, I've got
this job, yes it pays reallywell, I'm going to guess that part
I'm assuming and it was your careerand you're like, I don't even know
what else I would do, Andyet it didn't align ethically or morally with

(35:14):
what you really were feeling. AndI think that happens to a lot of
people. And so what advice doyou have for them? Is they're wanting
to forge this new path and it'spretty scary. Yeah. I mean,
the best advice I ever got wassomebody said to me early on in my
first business, three to five years, give it three to five years.

(35:34):
And of course at that time,I was like, well, because it's
because I want it to be,It'll probably be more like two to three
because that's what I wanted to be, and it really was. It did
take three to five years to reallyget clear on what is this business?
What do I have to offer?What do my clients look like, what
does my marketing look like? What'smy network here? And so I guess

(35:58):
giving yourself some runway, right,and not expecting that you're going to figure
everything out on day one or yearone. Give yourself some runway and know
that it's an iterative process. Sowhat you think it is today might be
different a year down the road,or two years down the road or three
years down the road, because you'regoing to be learning and you're going to
be experiencing all good things to do. But some of them, as you

(36:23):
well know, some of those lessonsare hard lessons are easy lessons you know
on the day. Absolutely, that'sabsolutely right. Well, that's great advice.
So any new and exciting things thatyou're working on that you'd like to
tell our listeners about and then pleaseshare with them how they can find you.
Yeah, so we are just doingfinal quality control on the audiobook version

(36:46):
of the book, so that's comingout soon, which is fun. And
we've been doing a lot of keynotesand talks at various corporations and associations on
these topics of gender equity and womenin leadership, and so it's exciting that
people are finally, I mean,it's we're scratching the surface, but finally

(37:07):
people are opening the door to havingmore of these conversations. So that feels
pretty exciting too. People can findme at Women's Leadership Intensive dot caa more
a Canadian company, and so there'sa book page where people can find more
information about the book there, andthen there's also information about our women's leadership

(37:29):
development program offerings on that site aswell. Perfect what part of Canada are
you in? I am in Well, it's sort of I wouldn't call it
northern Ontario because northern in Canada isall relative. Right, I'm in Ontario,
kind of three hours north of theToronto area. Okay. I've done

(37:50):
quite a bit of extensive work inCanada, so I've been all over Canada,
quite familiar with it. So thisis great. This has been delightful.
Thank you so much for being ourguest today and the work that you're
doing because it's important. Thank youso much for having me. I've really
enjoyed our conversation. So to allof our listeners out there, thank you

(38:12):
for joining us today. We knowyou have a choice of we're to spend
your time, and we're so gratefulthat you chose to spend it with us.
Please follow our subscribe, rate theshow. We certainly appreciate that with
a review, and don't forget tograb your free gifts and we will see
you next time on work from yourhappy place.