111: Bob Cirino on Yoga Philosophy in Life, Relationships, Trauma and Politics

Bob Cirino is the Executive Director for the non-profit Yoga Studies Institute, whose mission of teaching the classic texts and methods of yoga has reached thousands of students in over 35 countries in 8 languages. Bob has studied Tibetan yoga lineages for 8 years and directs a non-profit that teaches one of the most fundamental Hatha Tibetan lineages, Lady Niguma, and the classic texts like the Yoga Sutra and the Hatha Yoga Pradipika. Though he celebrates yoga in the West, his emphasis is on the embodiment of the essential aspects of the practice that are most often left out or just plain never taught.

He is also the Founder of Spiritual Warrior, an education and training organization that helps individuals live fearlessly on-purpose as a Spiritual Warrior. Bob is a serial entrepreneur whose projects have spanned from regenerative agriculture (where he is known as Biochar Bob), real estate investing and development, alternative investments, to educational technology. All of Bob's projects have a common thread of healing people and planet through compassionate strategies and philosophies.

Learn more and enroll in Bob's programs at https://www.spiritualwarrior.life/

Key Takeaways

- Yoga is about stopping the mind from "twisting" reality, realizing experiences come from within

- Renunciation in yoga means giving up causes of suffering, not necessarily physical objects

- Creating a sense of safety is crucial for healing trauma and fostering connection

- Astrology and yoga can be tools for self-awareness and personal growth when approached mindfully

Topics

Yoga Philosophy and Practice

- Yoga Sutra defines yoga as "stopping the way the mind turns things around"

- Renunciation in yoga is about giving up causes of suffering, not necessarily physical objects

- Hatha Yoga (Ha: sun, Ta: moon) aims to balance energies and bring prana into the central channel

- Importance of challenging and questioning teachings, even from respected gurus

Trauma and Healing

- Safety is crucial for healing and connection

- Creating a non-judgmental space allows people to express emotions and heal

- Different approaches work for different people; some may need gentle compassion, others tough love

Vedic Astrology and Personal Growth

- Astrology can be a tool for self-awareness and understanding life patterns

- Importance of maintaining agency and not giving full control to astrological predictions

- Viewing challenging transits as opportunities for growth and discipline

Spiritual Partnership and Relationships

- Concept of being "the exact thing that everybody needs" in relationships

- Viewing difficult past relationships as perfect teachers for personal growth

- Importance of bringing happiness to relationships rather than expecting happiness from them

Want to work with Jeremy?

- Sign up for Self Care Sunday: Free yoga and ayurveda practices to optimize your health at https://www.quietmind.yoga

- Beginners Yoga Sequence (free download) at https://www.quietmind.yoga/beginnersequence

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
I mean, I first time I read the Gita, I didn't really get it at
all. And it took me a couple years to
really like, feel like it resonated and I could get it and
at least, you know, and if everytime I go back and read it,
there's always new details. That's the thing about books
written by enlightened beings, right?
Right. Is that every time you read

(00:29):
them, you know, at least the waythat you know, we teach yoga is
that you know, the book comes from you.
And so the, so the realization isn't because the book has
changed. The realization is because you
have changed. And then you just have this like
very beautiful object, like you know, this text and it makes it
so that you can connect with it with wherever you are in your,

(00:51):
in your life at that point. Yeah, I love that.
Yeah. But yeah, I don't know too much
about what you're doing with thethe institute.
It sounds really cool. I'd love to hear more just like
we have fun, fun on with that. How's it going?
And yeah, yeah, what are you guys doing over there?
Yeah, So let's see, the Yoga State Institute was officially

(01:14):
organized and founded in like 2006, I think.
And so I, you know, we have a main teacher, his name is Gesh
and Michael Roche, he's this, you know, this great scholar
Yogi who did a three-year, threemonths and three day silent
retreat and has translated, I think he's personally translated

(01:35):
like over 20,000 pages of Sanskrit in Tibetan texts into
English. And so, so he founded the
institute. So he taught for a little bit
and then it kind of got mothballed.
And I, I don't know, 5 or 6 years ago, I just totally fell
in love with the teachings. And so we kind of revamped the

(01:57):
institute. And so now, you know, this
course will have around 600 people in eight languages across
the world studying the Pradipika.
So the mission of the Yoga Studies Institute is to teach
the classic texts and methods ofyoga.
And so that's why we cycle through what, what many consider
to be like some of the most primary classic texts in the

(02:19):
Canada of the School of Yoga, you know, And then because
Gesher Michael is Buddhist, likeTibetan Buddhist in the Keluk
tradition, his take on the texts, I think is really unique
and interesting to, you know, ifMaster Patanjali was writing
from the perspective of, you know, something like a, like a

(02:42):
Bajrayana or a, or a Mahayana Buddhism through the language of
Sankhya, you know, like, what would he be trying to
communicate, You know, 'cause you got to communicate with the
lingo of the time. And so Sankya was the hot stuff,
man, you know, like, it was really cool.
Like there was such a detailed framework of the composition of,

(03:04):
you know, of mind and, and world.
And so I think, you know, so ourposition is that he used that
framework to be able to engage the, the great thinkers of that
time and the students of that time through the Yoga Sutra.
But if he was an enlightened being, well, then you can
imagine that, you know, he's notjust stuck in that one school.

(03:25):
He's just using that one school as a framework to discuss
something. And so that's how.
And then when you go into the Pradipika, like it's like, you
know, it's, it's like an acid trip.
And so it's like, you know, you got to.
So how do we, how do we view that through, you know, the
different schools that have evolved over time?
So we go through the text like that and then we'll do, we'll do

(03:48):
a lot of really cool stuff. I don't know, we, we do so much.
There's so many things that thatwe teach that aren't just texts.
So that's the institute. Yeah.
You just finished the you said just two years with the
Predipika. So like this time, what's,
what's something that stood out?It's kind of the biggest insight
or maybe mind blowing thing or interesting thing that you
found. The Pradipika, that's a good

(04:14):
question. Well, you know, we're going to
get into the end of the chapter of Chapter 3.
So we, we teach Chapter 4 throughout because there's all
these incredible teachings on emptiness.
And you know, for us, if we're not teaching emptiness, then
we're missing a big point because then you start to think
that things are self existent and they have qualities of their

(04:36):
own. And so we've peppered in
emptiness teachings in like Shunya TA I or like Shunya I.
We pepper that throughout, you know, the 1st and the second
chapters. And so this, even though it's
our 4th course, we'll be doing the third chapter, the end of
the 3rd chapter, which if you'refamiliar with the text starts to
get super intimate. You know, it's super intimate

(04:57):
into like body bodily fluids. And you know, how we can use
partner practices to help us to,to transform the fastest.
And so me personally, I am absolutely in love with partner
practice because, you know, I keep on thinking when we talk

(05:19):
about this, I think about MasterAsanga.
You know, for those who aren't familiar, Master Asanga lived
around like 200 AD and did a three-year retreat in a cave,
tried to get enlightened, didn'tget enlightened, came out.
And then he saw, I forget, I forget the story exactly, but he
saw like the wings of a bird flapping against The Cave.
And then The Cave had become smooth after decades of wings

(05:41):
beating against rock. And he said, oh, I'm, I'm not
patient. You know, I have to be
consistent. I, so he goes back in for
another three years, comes out, you see something else that, and
he goes back in. And so he does, He does, I think
3 or 4, I can't remember like 3 year retreats.
And then he comes out finally out of the solitude and he sees
a dog that's that's dying on theground.

(06:03):
There's maggots in the dog's leg.
And, and he's like, Oh my gosh, you know, if people cart away
the dog, then the maggots will die.
And I can't stand, you know, ahinza, like I can't stand to
see a maggot die. And so he cuts his own leg open
and puts the maggot in his own leg so the maggot could live.
And in that act of compassion toward another sentient being,
that's when he completed his total enlightenment.

(06:26):
And so when we think about this practice of yoga, a lot of
people, you know, especially when you start to get into like,
renunciate traditions and you start to get it, you know, like
deep into the Vedas or, you know, you'll hear about these
wild stories of people just, like being solitary beings.
And I think that there's a time and a place for quietude and
solitude. But, you know, at least the yoga

(06:47):
that I love to engage with, you know, it's for the sake of all
beings, which means that we needto engage.
And so when we can think about partners, you know, there's this
big idea of like a super intimate spiritual partner.
But I love the interpretation and the application of that,
like spiritual partnership or profound partnerships with all

(07:08):
beings, seeing all beings in a very, very special way.
So that's where I'm really excited about those kind of
teachings right now. That's awesome.
Yeah. So I think so my understanding
is the Predipika was written somewhere around the 1400s.
Is that around time yet? OK.

(07:29):
And and there's a big gap from like the Yoga Sutra somewhere
maybe AC200CE. And then it's, it seems like and
my understanding and then also as you talk about this sort of
partnership part of it, this there's some Tantra influence
came through in the yoga tradition and those 1200 plus
years. Yeah, somewhere in that cap.

(07:52):
And and there's more emphasis onthe relational part, whereas
before it's such an aesthetic asfar as we understand, very
aesthetic. Practice.
Yeah, totally. And I think that's so relevant
in these days where most people practicing yoga because it's so
popular, is most people are justhouseholders.
They've got kids, family and and, you know, no, there's not

(08:13):
many in the West for sure. Like focusing on the aesthetic.
I'm going to renounce everythingand go away to do yoga instead.
I'm just going to go to an hour long class at the gym.
So. So yeah, that's kind of an
interesting thing of like bringing the yoga into the
modern everyday lifestyle while still reverent and connected to

(08:34):
these ancient texts is I think such an interesting bridge to
make. And and also then the Tantra of
stuff a bit with without the culty manipulative dark side of
Tantra that can happen, but maybe which?
Is not Tantra, by the way, that's just misunderstanding

(08:55):
misuse. Right, but there's like black
Tantra, right or or some versions of red Tantra that can
be abused and it's more like black Tantra.
But yeah, I don't know any in your experience of this of like,
make, because this was a struggle for me early on.
And I wonder if other listeners maybe experienced this, if,
like, yoga can still seem like such a solitary practice.

(09:17):
You go to, you do your practice,then you go back to the rest of
the world. So I'm abridging this as a
solitary practice, but still, you know, not being this ascetic
is detached from everything. Yeah.
Well. I think that's OK.
So, so we do at the institute. We do a lot in China.
A lot of our students are in China.

(09:38):
And when we were first spinning up, we were like, OK, we have
this big community out there. What do you guys want to learn?
And you know, we're like, all right, we're going to get deep
into the text. We're going to talk about like,
you know, the 8 limbs and get into each of the limbs.
What do you got? And they're like, we want yoga
to get rich. And we're like, OK, you know

(09:58):
how? Let's take this in stride,
right? Because the whole point is give
people everything that they wantand then teach them how to use
every single thing as a path, right?
And, and, and it's not wrong to want to be rich.
It's just everything around thatcan get confusing for people.
And then instead of it being a, a source of liberation, it's a

(10:19):
source of, of misery, quite frankly.
And so I think that one of the questions that someone asked
early on was like, why am I going to listen to a Yogi who's
a renunciate about having things, you know, and
renunciation is like, I give up,you know, I give up all these
things. And I think this is where, you

(10:39):
know, as we can, especially as we track the evolution of
Eastern philosophy over the millennia, you know, I know you
love the Vedas. So you're like, as OG as it
comes. Like we got an Upanishad with us
here today, you know, So it's beautiful to understand, you
know, an origin and then be ableto hold the origin in integrity,
but also acknowledge evolution because the the stacking is is

(11:04):
really wonderful. So the origin of yoyo were
people who renounced and went into the woods.
You know, I'm just that was the whole thing.
But then over time, like what does it really mean to renounce?
And the way that I love to talk about renunciation is it's not
literally renouncing objects. It can include renouncing

(11:24):
objects. But truly what renunciation is,
is to give up the causes of suffering.
Like what are you giving up? You're giving like, OK, get rid
of all your stuff. Do you become happy all of a
sudden for those of you who havegiven up all your stuff?
I've, I went through like a hugepurge, I don't know, in 2000,
like maybe a decade ago. And I was just like, get rid of

(11:46):
all this. You know what I mean?
Guess what, I wasn't enlightened, not after giving up
all my stuff. So that's not the cause of of
liberation. And So what is the cause of
liberation? It's giving up the the causes
that work against liberation or the causes of suffering.
And so, so many people put theirhappiness in something like

(12:07):
money or people put their happiness in something like a
partnership. People put their happiness in
things that are that are outside.
But what we learned is that, youknow, there's a turf for that
hedonic happiness of like happiness through consumption,
happiness we get from the world,but there's this deep happiness
that comes from us, out of us, you eudaemonic happiness.

(12:30):
So hedonic is from the world. I get happiness from the world.
And eudaemonic happiness is I give to the world.
And I think that that's a reallybeautiful shift of mentality.
So, you know, whether we're talking about the country or
we're talking about anything, I think what yoga really is
teaching us to do is yoga ShritaVertini Rodaha Yoga is depending

(12:51):
on your translation. I love the translation of yoga
is stopping the way the mind turns things around.
So we think that money brings ushappiness, but the truth is we
bring happiness to money. We think that partners bring us
happiness, but the truth is thatwe bring happiness into our
partnerships. And So what you do then is you

(13:12):
start to see that the world is amirror of what we've been.
And so it's this, these karmas or these, you know, little
imprints like fingerprints upon a clay tablet or film, you know,
on a, on a, in a GoPro, you know, it's like capturing all
day. And then the, the movie projects
and that, and then we see, that's what determines whether

(13:32):
we see something as Klitshta or Klitshta and something that's
pleasant or unpleasant. And so change who you are,
change how you are, and then change your experience of these
things. And I think that we need to use
objects as a mirror to recognizewhere we are in the path.
And so then you see money as is money a source of my suffering

(13:56):
because I'm misunderstanding money, thinking that money will
make me happy, you know, or am Iable to be kind and serve other
people and then have the fruit, the Pala, the fruit of that
karma, of that seed show up as apleasant experience around
money? This is I've never heard the

(14:19):
that sutra interpreted this way.It's so good.
So basically I want to try to rephrase it so I can remember it
too. The way you said it, it's so
good. Basically it's like, rather than
just quieting the mind, yoga chitta verti naroda ha.
It's like, it's like you're stopping the, the track you're
on and reversing it, reversing the perspective.

(14:40):
So it's rather than, oh, I wish I, if I had more money, then I
would feel more relaxed about money.
You're stopping that train of thought and reversing your like,
if I feel more relaxed about money, then I will have more
money, this kind of thing. Yeah, I love the, I love the

(15:01):
roots of Sanskrit words because they're so descriptive.
So vert means to twist. Like when something is weird,
it's vert. It's veered.
Like it came through as veered and then became weird over time.
And you know, if you know Sanskrit, the V is actually
truly pronounced more like AW than AV.

(15:21):
So it's like it's like verti. So it becomes weird or
perverted, has the same vert perverted or invert.
And so vert or viador is wire, you know, which is twisted.
And so I think what Patanjali istrying to communicate in that,
and what my teacher taught me was that we twist our reality,

(15:41):
we spin it around. We think that the, our
experience of the world comes atus, whereas in truth it comes
from us. And so that in in a single
sense, that's the way to kind ofconsolidate is that we wake up
out of the illusion that things come at us and we realize that

(16:03):
things come from us. Right.
So well said. Wow.
Yeah, I did not know this about the root of the word britty like
this. Very cool.
Yeah. So it's the mind how it's
twisting things. Is your Nerodaha extinguishing
stopping? Yeah, exactly.

(16:26):
Yeah. So yoga is yoga, Chitta is mind,
Bertie is twisting, and Nirodhaiis stopping.
So yoga is stopping the way the mind turns things around.
Yeah. And then the next verse just
'cause it's like you got to do the, if we're doing an alley oop
here, this the, the second verseand the third verse, they just
go so beautifully together. It's saying.

(16:48):
And on that day, the seer will come to dwell within their own
true nature. And so if we, if we were to take
even the self like Jeremy or Bob, and we realized that even
that is a perception that's coming from us instead of, oh,
let me tell you about Bob. Bob exists as his own thing, you

(17:10):
know, And it's like, wait, wait,wait, I'm the one who's making
Bob that way. So what is the true nature of
Bob? If Bob is only that way because
I made him that way, or if Jeremy is only that way because
I made him that way. If money is only that way
because I made it that way, thenwhat is it before I've made it
away at all? What is the thing before it's a

(17:30):
perceived object, before we get into subject object, you know,
what is that? What is that quality of a thing?
And so depending on your school,which you know, every school has
so much merit to it. The way that we like to engage
with that question is that the nature of that thing before

(17:50):
you've made it a thing is that it's, it's empty, meaning
unrealized potential. It could be, it has infinite
potential. It could be anything because it
has no qualities of its own. You're the one who makes it that
way. The dog makes a pencil a chew
toy and you make it a pencil notbecause the pencil's a pencil or

(18:12):
because the the pencil's a true toy.
It's because the one who's perceiving it is the one who
makes it that way. And so then what happens in that
state of yoga? So yoga in the second verse is
both a definition. This is what yoga is.
It's the practice. That's how we practice.
Yoga is stopping the twisting ofthe mind.

(18:32):
And then so it's a state, it's agoal, and it's a path.
And so then what is it like to abide in when all three of those
are, you know, present? We abide in our true nature.
And so that's, you know, that's just a really nice state that
you hear people in yoga talk about when they talk about
reaching the goal of yoga. It's this.

(18:54):
It's this place of of, of infinite bliss and wisdom.
So. If you went to money with that
right, how would you engage withmoney?
You would never steal money thinking that having more money
would make you happy, because you would obviously see that
stealing only creates poverty, whereas being generous and being
kind is what makes you feel abundant.

(19:16):
And then that will project onto whatever object you have,
whether it's 10 dollars, $10 million.
Absolutely, yeah. I can attest.
I grew up thinking stealing was cool.
As a teenager, I stole some stuff.
And then I was. That was the most poverty
mindset I ever had in my whole life at that time.

(19:36):
And I kind of looked around and I had these friends, I'd go to
their, these my friends houses and they were, they're pretty
well off. Their family's doing OK.
You know, we're like little kids.
So they're not working yet, but there's money around the house.
I just thought there's like $100bill just sitting on the counter
there. And nobody's that's money.
Take it. You know, this is kind of my
mindset. Like why, Why would you just

(19:57):
leave it out there? Someone's going to take it.
And then I kind of realized like, well, they're not worried
about money and they've got way more than my family.
Something's up. Yeah, it doesn't.
Something is, I'm not seeing something here.
So I started to take on this mindset and like started to
donate and volunteer. And there was a point where I

(20:20):
had like no money, but I just felt like I, someone else needed
it more and I should just give it.
And I just trust that if I really need it, it will come
back to me. And it was late for this exact
amount, maybe like 237 dollars or something.
I gave it away. The next day it came right back
for someone else gave me money the exact same amount.
Yeah, so. I, I remember the first time,

(20:43):
the first time I started playingwith these ideas, I was living
in the Dominican Republic and I was building my house and, you
know, I didn't have a huge amount of money and, and I had
to put a roof in my house. And this guy in the village, he
was like, he came up to me and he's like, hey, do you have some
extra money? I got to put a roof on my house.
And I was like, all right, Bob, like, here's your chance.

(21:05):
You know what I mean? Put your money where your mouth
is, like quite literally. And so I was like, you know
what, dude, here's 50 bucks, which, you know, in our little
village, 50 bucks goes a long way.
And he was like, so grateful. And I was just like, yeah, man,
absolutely, no doubt. And then one month later, a
friend of a friend came and visited and, you know, he saw

(21:26):
that I was starting to build my house.
And he goes, he goes, hey, listen, I know it's not much,
but put a roof on your house. Here's $500.
I was like, I was like, I was like, well, you know, like, it
was like I was looking at the film, you know, projecting from
the film that was imprinted. You know what I mean?
But the nature between seed and fruit is that the seed is always

(21:47):
smaller than the fruit. And that's the nature of karma,
you know, and karma, you know, in the West we think about like
bad karma. But karma simply in the school
of yoga means action. And so it's like, you know, it's
just the, it's the movement of the mind, the body and the body
speech of mind. Oh, did I?
Freeze. I can still hear you, but yeah,

(22:09):
OK, it'll come back. Yeah, my battery may have died.
I bet you that's what happened. Let me just find out my battery
here. Yeah, yeah, can edit this part
out. Well, I've got a question for

(22:47):
you and Adam are in a nice little applause, all right,
because astrology is a really interesting conversation to have
when you're talking about emptiness and you're talking
about like the nature of of things.
So anyway, I'll, I'll, maybe I'll, I'll let you segment segue

(23:10):
us back in. Go ahead.
I like, I like it to be as raw and organic as possible.
So let's just keep going. Yeah.
So you know this. Well, first of all, I think of
quantum physics is like that is what quantum physics has come
to. It's like everything can be a
wave or a particle, depending onwhat you're looking for,
basically. Yeah.

(23:30):
So if you're looking for a wave,you see a wave at the bottom,
the subatomic level that we can see so far.
And then if you're looking for aparticle, you see a particle.
And so I think that's like, you know, the Yoga Sutra was saying
that through yogic terms. And now we have the empirical

(23:51):
science model to say the same thing and like give us some
research and proof of that, but same thing.
And then astrology is saying, I think that, well, if we just try
to observe as neutrally as possible over time, there's some
patterns going on here. We have free will and we have
choice in how we, you know, respond to that pattern.

(24:12):
But it's like, for example, Chernobyl, 9/11/2020 pandemic
all happened when there's a certain transit of Rahu in Ardra
Nakshatra, Rahu's in this intense place.
And then K2 is opposite. That's the North and South node

(24:33):
of the moon are in Ardra and Mullah.
Mullah is the DoD related, that is Nariti, which is all about
death and destruction. So all that to say, the same
transit, the same trigger happens on these big events, not
just those 3, but further back through history.

(24:55):
It's like, and those are big events that are like, there's
not really one person responsible.
It's kind of a collective thing happening.
So you, it's like, and that's where I start to get into like,
can you really say even if it's like a government failure or a
government conspiracy or howeverit happened, like something was

(25:16):
going to happen probably around that time at that level.
Because there's this sort of cosmic cycle happening, kind of
like a smaller version of the Yugas where it's like, you know,
this is going to happen during this time period.
And, and it's like, well, I would just, you know, living out

(25:39):
this predetermined thing that wehave no control of.
And we think we have control. I think we do have free will.
I think we do have influence. And I think there is also a sort
of cosmic cycle happening that has predictable patterns.
And my approach to astrology is how can I spot those patterns

(26:02):
and then predict the next in thesequence and then add the
intuition and the the try to have a clear lens and everything
from yoga practice and try not to color it too much with my own
bias or judgments or prejudice or something.
So try to be as clear as possible and see the pattern and
then choose the most empowered response of like, well, if there

(26:23):
is going to be another disaster in 2038, which would be the next
in that sequence, you know, whatcan I do to prepare without
coming? Not getting crazy about it, but.
Yeah. Be aware of this energy and
contribute to the positive outcome as best I can.
So that's kind of my short spielon astrology from what you said.

(26:44):
What do you think about that? Yeah, no, I think it's really
cool. I'm not a student of astrology,
which may be really excited to talk with you because I love
learning from people who are, you know, really have taken the
time to learn. I think that, you know, as
you're speaking, you know, the way that I would approach that

(27:08):
idea of like, OK, 2038 is the next bad one.
You know, 2020 was the last one.Was it bad inherently?
That's, you know, so that, that,that, because that's where I go
is well, what makes it bad? I, there's this great story.
It's like a, it's an old Chineseproverb.
Alan Watts, you know, he did a great summary of it and I won't

(27:29):
do the whole thing, but essentially it was like a, and
I'm going to not do a great job at this, but a farmer came into
a farm and he just like happenedto get this farm and everyone's
like, wow, that's so great. And he goes, well, maybe, you
know, and then there was all these wild horses.
And so he said, son, go tame thehorses.
So the son goes to tame the horses and breaks his leg.

(27:50):
And I was like, oh, I'm so sorrythat that happened.
And you get that's so bad. And he goes maybe, you know, and
then the conscription officer comes through to recruit
everybody in the draft. And the son doesn't get drafted
because he's got a broken leg. And he's like, wow, you're so
lucky. And he goes, well, yeah, maybe.
And so, you know, we have this, this habit of labeling things as
good or bad, thinking that they have that quality from their own

(28:13):
side. And that's not to say that there
wasn't pain in the leg or something like that, but what
makes something a mental or emotional experience that's
positive or negative isn't the thing itself.
It's what you bring to the thing.
And so for people with COVID, you know, some people, that was
a really, really positive experience for them somehow

(28:35):
because, you know, and for otherpeople it was absolutely
devastating. And so there's no quality in
that experience from a human emotion experience.
I think it's, you know, you could argue this irrefutable
that like a thing occurred, right?
So like that thing occurred. But one of the questions that
you can ask is, but how will I experience that thing?

(29:00):
And so, and so, and then there'sanother kind of, it's from the
Upanishads, the Panchakosha system, which, you know,
depending on which time frame you want to interpret that
people have different explanations of it.
But essentially the, the understanding of the being from
the, from the school of yoga is that we are not just this gross
physical body. There's layers.

(29:21):
And if you have ever wondered how there's a connection between
your mind and your body, you know, then you're starting to
get into the, into the question that leads us to this system.
And so it says that, you know, on the inside, you know our mind
and our thoughts, and it goes all the way up and through into
our prana or vital energy, into our breath, into our physical
body. And as an extension, included as

(29:43):
our physical body is our outer experience of the world.
And so why do we see a world where that planet is in that
place? It's because it's coming from
the inside out. And so yoga is about going from
the inside out, the inner practices and from the outside
in together. It's why we do things like
asana, you know, but that's not the whole practice.

(30:05):
You have to meditate. And so how can we do meditation
and asana? How does that create a whole
practice? How do we have the union of the
inner and the outer worlds so that it's, it's not in conflict
and then we can feel beautiful and at peace.
And so I love my teacher said itthis way.
He said you aren't that way because the planets are like

(30:27):
that. The planets are like that
because you are that way. And so I thought that was so
interesting. If the world is a reflection of
how we've treated other people in our past, then it's not
surprising to think that in our cycles of suffering we would see
celestial bodies in cycles. Now what we get to change

(30:48):
though, is how we respond and who we are when these moments,
good or bad, come. Exactly, Yeah.
And we have the choice of that energy.
And like, for example, with thatparticular transit, there's a
lot of what you could say like Shiva energy or Kali energy more

(31:10):
commonly known to like. It can be like letting stuff go,
tearing things down that are oldand on a personal level, like
some sort of release or letting things go or changing of things
like. And the same way that there is a
cycle to the day, you know, the sun goes down for the average
person, that means, OK, melatonin kicks in, time to

(31:32):
sleep. So there's like this very
natural connection with the the moon and the sun, but maybe less
awareness of other celestial bodies.
But yeah, then the sun going down for some people's like, oh,
party, you know, time to go out.So it's, yeah.

(31:53):
And and then you, you could still have the physical
melatonin reaction, but you suppress it or you ignore it.
And so there's, yeah, there's always, there's the sense, at
least the sense of free will that we have of like how to
choose to respond to things. And I think that's like the
number one reason. One, one of the things I talk
about the most with yoga is like, you can't control politics

(32:15):
or external things or your relationship, your spouse, how
they respond to you or if you get a job or if you don't get a
job or whatever, if students sign up for your program or
don't. But you can control how you
respond to it and what you choose to focus on.
And I think that's what yoga is,the tool like that gives us that
so powerfully. Yeah, I love that.

(32:38):
And to circle all the way back to the beginning of the
conversation, renunciation, right?
So if we're attached to the celestial bodies, you know,
we're attached to the outcome. And we say that I will be a
happy or unhappy person based onthese things.
And then we've lost the essence of yoga.
We're, because attachment is like one of the most basic

(33:00):
expressions of ignorance of, of,of vidya, which is like the
wrong vision. Vid comes through into video and
then, uh, is like a negation. So it's like wrong vision is of
vidya. And that's the first of the five
clashes, like the first of the five, like bad mental attitudes.
It's the very, very, it's the shape term.
It's the, it's the field in which all negative emotions are

(33:20):
planted is in that misunderstanding of the verti.
And so if we can then renounce the, you know, whatever the
outcome is, I choose to be kind,you know, like I, I, I renounce
it's release on my, on my happiness, on my kindness, on,
on, on my love. You know, if my love is
conditional, then you then, thenyou're not practicing yoga.

(33:45):
Love is conditional when you have attachment.
Love is unconditional when you have renounced all attachments.
And that's such a, that's such arelational way of talking about
it that I don't hear a lot. It's like, I think usually maybe
it's, at least for me. And when I talk to people a lot
about yoga and like, this kind of renunciate element of it,

(34:08):
they think of it as, oh, yeah, it's easy for them to just walk
away from all their problems andgo into a cave for five years,
you know, let's see them try to raise a family, you know?
So there's this other element that you're talking about of
like being renunciate and you could still do anything else in
life. It's like it's it'd be a

(34:28):
household. There's kids.
Yeah. But it doesn't.
Absolutely. Yeah.
It it doesn't mean you throw it all away, you know?
No. And in fact, I would, I would
like vehemently argue that if that was your attitude toward
renunciation, you missed the point entirely.
You know, because, because the the nature of karma is that if

(34:50):
you've been a crappy person, doesn't matter what object is in
front of you, whether it's the wall of a cave or a mansion,
you're gonna have a crappy time.And so you've missed the point
of yoga by thinking that by getting rid of things, you'll
get rid of your negative emotions.
No, you bring your negative emotions with you.

(35:10):
You don't get them from things. That's the verti.
That's the misunderstanding, thebasic misunderstanding that
we're trying to untwist through our practice.
So that's why, you know, why wastaught, you know, to get back to
the Tantra conversation. Tantra was originally really
marketed or, you know, like deployed or shared with or

(35:32):
taught to householders because it had to be this really nuanced
understanding of things. You know, it was, it was made
for merchants and Princess and people who influenced a lot of
people's lives because they needed to have the most radical
worldview because they didn't have the luxury, you know, of

(35:52):
going into a cave because they had these huge responsibilities.
And so how do we live with all the these responsibilities
without being the slave to misunderstanding?
How can we be perpetuate perpetuators of liberation with
these huge levers that we have of our resources, of our teams,
of our business? You know, how do we use this for

(36:13):
the good, for the sake of all beings?
One of the most like elemental ideas of Kriya yoga or just yoga
in general, is this idea of tapas, which is kind of to cook
or to heat up. And So what we're doing is we're
putting ourselves through challenging situations in just
like you cure out steel through temperature exposure, we can

(36:35):
cure out our own impurities through exposure to difficult
circumstances. And so kind of like one level of
engaging that is like like 5 fires and sit in the middle of
it and try not to have a bad thought.
You know, that's not something that I really am a proponent of
because I think that it's very easy to damage this like this
rocket ship that's really important to keep good.

(36:58):
But you know, the tapas really is, you know what the way that
my teacher teaches is the highest tapas is to be patient
with somebody who's hurting you.You know, that's the fire to
cook out your impurities. And so if you have all these
relationships, if you have thesehuge, big mirrors of $10 million

(37:19):
in the bank, $100 million in thebank, you know, 5000 employees,
like those are big hot fires. And so we can engage with those
with the discipline of a Yogi toreally, really bake out our
misunderstandings. And then the path becomes
extremely quick because the leverage is so intense.

(37:43):
Could I say I have a friend who's like recently uncovered
some some trauma and like she has PTSD about it and she's
struggling with this and she hasa lot of tools and experience
and breath work and mantra and it's just very difficult for
her. Like the old visions replaying

(38:04):
like trying to get it out. It's just kind of stuck.
And this is a kind of pretty intense scenario and it's
someone who cares about her. It's a little difficult to try
to support as well of like, you know, I could say these kind of
yogic things, but they don't quite land or resonate.

(38:24):
Or it's like you don't understand what I'm going
through, you know, and I, I don't, you know, I can't speak
for her experience and I can't know someone else's experience,
but I have a lot of compassion for it.
And I'm curious and in this lensof like, I guess my part is just
like being with, how do I be with that person?
And then maybe for somebody who's listening, who may have

(38:45):
experienced or is experiencing these kind of things, how do
they navigate? It's like, yeah, I want to let
it go. I want to renounce it but it's
like haunting me kind of thing. Yeah.
Not an easy question to answer. No, but I'm actually, I'm
actually doing a course right now with Doctor Shannon Michael
on trauma resilience. He's, he's great.

(39:09):
My goodness, he's a, he's, he's a beautiful person and I'm
learning a lot because we ran this program where we, it was
like 140 Ukrainians that we brought together and we, and we
did this like trauma resilience program through the lens of yoga
for yoga teachers and mental health professionals.

(39:31):
And so I'm just listening to allthe recordings because I
couldn't make it to the live course.
And that's a function of the institute, Yoga State Institute.
And the very first thing that that doctor Shannon Michael said
is, you know, if there's no safety, then there's no
connection. And So what happens is people

(39:53):
over emphasize connection without recognizing the critical
part safety has to play. So if I don't feel safe, then
I'm not available to connect, let alone with myself then with
other people. And so there's all these really
nice methods that we can use to help cultivate a sense of

(40:15):
safety. And you know, I have a lot of, I
have quite a few loved ones in my life who I don't know the
exact scenario for a friend, butthey suffer with PTSD and have
gone through a lot of traumatic experiences.
And the most important thing that I've learned I can do for
that person and those people is to cultivate environment of
safety as much as I can within my control.

(40:39):
And then from there, just connect with them and get rid of
this idea of like, let me help you, let me heal you like I have
to fix you or something like that.
But it's just simple, simply creating ahinza a space of non
violence. You know, the first the of the
Yamas, the very first part of the of the idlins of yoga is

(41:00):
ahinza. Let me create a place of safety.
And then in that place, let's just connect with no other
agenda other than connection. And then from that sphere of
safety in our relationship, 'cause there's the sphere of
safety between me and myself, there's the sphere of safety
between me and my environment and the sphere of safety between

(41:22):
me and other people. And with people who have deep
trauma or any level of trauma, if they don't feel safe in any
one of those 3, then healing cannot occur because they're
constantly on the lookout for the sabretooth tiger, you know,
whatever. So if we can do our part to
create the sphere of safety in the environment of interpersonal

(41:44):
relationship, that is something I can have half influence over,
right? Then from that one sphere of
safety, they can reach out into the other ones and begin to
connect and heal and just keep it simple.
Just keep it simple. I went too hard and heavy right
away with some folks and it, it did not help them.

(42:05):
And I, and I regretted that. I was really sorry.
I was like, let's go into deep meditation and pranayama, you
know, And then it was like, you know, prana imbalance like
immediately. And I was just like, oh man.
So now it's just like hi. How are you?
You know, I find, does this roomfeel safe to you?
How can you know? How can we make it feel a little
more safe? And they're like, draw, draw the

(42:25):
curtains closed on the window because windows are scary for
me. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm
so glad I asked because like theprevious version of me would
have just done, all right, let'sdo some asana, you know?
And the whole time they're like that window is unsafe, then they
can't receive the benefit of thepractice.
Exactly. Yeah, that's just the curiosity

(42:48):
I think has has helps a lot And what when I one of my lowest
points I've experienced, I was with a mentor and I just went to
her and I just needed someone totalk to.
And all she did was listen, you know, she didn't, she didn't
give me any advice. There's no profound speech, like
she didn't fix anything, but sheput her hand on my back and
listened and I just felt so healed, like whatever was

(43:11):
burning me of time was just gone, just drained out of my
system. And it wasn't a super heavy
thing, but it was a very, very difficult thing.
And but just to have a space where I felt safe and I, I could
be heard. And I think of that a lot when
I'm with others, just how that felt of like I didn't feel
judged. I didn't feel like there was
something wrong with me. I felt like I could just express

(43:32):
my emotion as a human, and then it was gone.
Yeah. It's amazing the power of just
present. Like totally you just you felt
safe with her, you know, and then, you know, it makes me
think of that third verse, whichis, you know, we abide in our
true nature of the yoga 1st, 1stchapter, third verse Yoga Sutra.

(43:52):
Like if we can get in a place ofnon judgement, which is the
place before the Verdi, you know, the place before we start
to label things as good or bad and we're just in simple
presence, right? Precognitive.
I'm not having assessment or anything like I'm just here.
Then that creates the scenario for people to abide in their own

(44:15):
true nature, whether it's you for yourself or creating that
space for other people to just be them and to, to, to for
people who is difficult like me to not have the varti.
That's why we need to practice, so that we can give that space
to other people. Right.

(44:36):
So then the practice, to me, I think of it as a place to try to
clear the channel, clear the lens of perception as best I can
so that it's not too colored or filtered as I go into the day
with maybe a judgement or a fearor an anxiety or something from

(44:59):
the past and try to be a clear slate.
And to some degree, is that how you approach your practice or is
there something else that you emphasize in your?
Practice. Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, the practice changes, you know, for me.
So it, you know, it's just what am I working on?

(45:22):
And, you know, just apply the methods.
But I think that, you know, essentially, essentially, yeah.
You're, you're trying to clear, you know, Patanjali said that
the purpose of the Ashtanga, the8 limbs over the eight parts or
the 8 links of yoga is to clear out our impurities and
impurities. You know, I think in Western

(45:43):
society, I had a lot of problem with the word pure and impure
just 'cause it was just so loaded contextually by my
culture. But then I started thinking of
it like a, like a light and a lampshade.
You know, if you have like, like, I want my light to shine,
you know, like this little lightof mine, I want to let it shine.
And and if I have this lampshadethat's just covered in muck of

(46:07):
my baggage and my wrong ideas about how things work or my
greediness or selfishness or anger, whatever, then then that
beautiful true self won't shine.The thing that I'm spewing into
the world then is in pure or filthy or like, you know, it's
the gross thing. It's not what I want.
And so a lot of something like my physical practice is to, is

(46:32):
to clear out those impurities sothat, like you said, I can go
out into my day and bring my best self into the day for the
sake of all beings. And because this is an astrology
podcast, I'm going to go here real quick.
And I'm sure you know this already, Jeremy, but we'll have
fun. Ha TA yoga, right?

(46:52):
Ha is sun, TA is moon and yoga is union.
And so in the classic representations of the yogic
body, we have two side channels and the the right side channels,
the sun channel, the left side channel is the moon channel.
When piranha runs through the sun channel, we have we have a

(47:12):
version or like stupid dislikingthinking that by punching
someone in the face, I'll becomehappier, right?
Or like going to war with somebody would create peace for
me. And so that's, that's the
thought that opens when the piranha runs in that part of our
body and on our left side is stupid or harmful liking, which

(47:33):
is, you know, if I have more icecream, I'll just, I'll be
happier. Or, you know, if I have that job
or that promotion or whatever isputting our happy, our, our
happiness in things out there. And so when the piranha runs in
those two side channels, then we're in this constant pendulum
of wishing we have things that we don't and wishing we didn't
have the things that we do, you know, and then we're just

(47:55):
constantly in this, in this unhappy state.
And, and the classic teachings say that we have a central
channel, this sushumna, which when prana runs through that,
that's where we have lots of love, compassion, wisdom and
bliss. And the side channels, as the
prana runs through that, it chokes off that central channel.

(48:15):
And so it is nearly impossible to access those feelings of
love, compassion, wisdom and bliss because physically the
plumbing that's that's running those thoughts through our body,
riding on the prana, because thoughts and prana ride together
as one. The Tibetan is lonesome
drupachipa. It's really beautiful.

(48:35):
If our prana's in the side channels, then we've choked out
our capacity to abide in our true nature, which is that
blissful, beautiful being that comes out when we have when
we're centered. And so the yoga of the sun and
the moon, the, the Hata yoga is when we can drain the prana from
the side channels and bring it into the union of the central

(48:59):
channel. So the why do we do these
twists? Why do we do these breathing
practices? It's not because those things
necessarily have any qualities of their own, but it's affecting
the plumbing of this machine of the body so that we can get the
prana in the places where we area shining, you know, beautiful
individual. That's our true self.

(49:21):
So that's Hatta yoga. Wow, that's so.
I haven't heard this described this way.
This is so powerful. So, so when energy is flowing
through the the pingala is the right nostril, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's.
It starts in the starts in the right nostril, but it goes up

(49:42):
and behind the spine and then tracks down the spine and then
down the right leg. And that's stupid disliking.
Yeah, yeah, or, or. Harmful.
Harmful disliking or stupid disliking.
Yeah, The opposite of wisdom, the opposite of compassion.
Yeah, it's memorable. I like it.

(50:02):
Stupid disliking and harmful disliking.
So that's, and then there's a healthy dislike too.
There's certain things like thatmight be harmful to you that you
would, you know, avoid. So there's a healthy level of
that. But this is like I, I guess I, I
like to talk about charge topicsbecause like, like politics of
like, how do we bring this into Yeah, how do we apply this to

(50:25):
the places where people forget it the most and like politics
and charge topics? So there can be this like
charged reaction to the political party.
That's that you don't like that would be that would be an
activation of this channel, right?
Yeah. Well, and it would be the the
way that I would really describeit is that it would be the
misunderstanding that that political party is evil from its

(50:48):
own side, right, Because some people see the current
president-elect in the United States, you know, for people of
the future, this is November of 2024.
And people go, Oh my gosh, he's my savior.
And then somebody else says, Oh my gosh, he's the devil.
Well, which is he? Well, it depends on you.

(51:09):
It's the same guy. And so and so if we think that
that person has qualities of their own, if that was true,
everybody would have to see themthe same way.
Everyone would have to see them as a particle and not a wave.
You would, you would you would be obligated because that's the
nature of that thing. But that's not how we perceive

(51:32):
the world. And so in the politics I love,
you know, His Holiness the DalaiLama put out a statement and
he's like, congratulations, President Trump, let's be in
union for peace on earth. You know what I mean?
Like, let's get out of this areaof like, of hatred, of anger of

(51:53):
me versus you. And let's get into this.
Like, let's be together. This is what we got.
Like, don't wish for something else because you don't have that
thing. This is what we have.
And a Yogi must use every singlething for liberation, even the
things that they don't find to be necessarily pleasant.
We have to use every single thing.

(52:13):
So the ignorant disliking would be, if I got rid of that
president, then we would have peace on earth.
All right, go ahead. Get rid of the president.
Tell me how it goes. You know what I mean.
Get rid of the anger in your heart and then we'll start to
see peace on earth. Like the imagine the the ripple
effect of that if you know, and that's what I think is so

(52:35):
powerful about yoga and learningit and, and practicing and
teaching it and like, until everyone has access to it.
And I think it's like more and more, let's all share as much as
we can so everyone has easy access to it.
Because, yeah, if that's if we all, you know, like Mother St.
society, we clean up our own side of the street, the whole

(52:56):
world would be clean, you know, and that's, that's the real
work. And so, yeah, but I've never
thought of it this way. This as the pingala and then the
EDA. So when these two are active,
which is cycling all day, like we can breathe in our nostrils
like one's dominant every 90 minutes.

(53:17):
So I've often thought of it as just as oscillation.
So I'm going Ida pingala, Ida Pingala through the day, yen
activities, Yang activities. And that's more how I've
emphasized it myself in recent years.
And I've kind of forgotten this Sashumna.
Oh, come on. Yeah, the the emphasis.

(53:38):
Of. It's like I've forgotten to
emphasize that's the center. And the way you're saying it is
amazing of like, OK, so if I'm in those two, then I'm not in
the center. And if I'm in the center, then
that's where that's basically, you know, where I'm really
wanting to be. Yeah, loving, compassionate,
kind, patient, all these things,giving my gifts shiny.

(54:02):
Yeah, and and the center is a dynamic thing.
Right. Right.
And so I think that that's one of the misunderstandings when
you, when you find a great practitioner like, you know, I
think of my teachers and the scenario is like the energy is
very low. People are not excited, you
know, it's a dullness. The teacher knows how to be the

(54:23):
opposite. The teacher's like, yeah, come
on, let's wake up, Boo, let's go, guys.
Similarly, if everyone's like agitated and it's all like,
yeah, the teacher knows how to bring everybody down.
And so you'll, you'll find with these really great
practitioners, they know exactlyhow to be the dynamic center, to

(54:44):
be the, the exact thing that people need.
Like one of the, one of the great prayers is may I be, may I
be the exact thing thing that everybody needs.
Like when we make offerings, if that's part of your practice,
which is really beautiful. I have to make offerings, you
know, 'cause it's just, it's just an act of love.
One of the greatest offerings wecan make is ourself.

(55:07):
May I be the very thing that youneed.
You know, like I'm, yes, I can give you food.
Yes, I can give you resources. I can give you, I can even give
you teachings. But let me give you me.
And if you think about what thatrequires, that requires a very
flexible, adaptable and dynamic thing because what you need in

(55:31):
this moment, you know, that teacher was this huge open
space, very, very, very feminineopenness.
You know, like, let me listen toyou sometimes, you know, we need
someone to punch us in the gut, you know what I mean?
And, and I bet you that that teacher is so skilled that
you're referring to that if theyfelt that that's what you
needed, that's what they would do for you.
And so when you talk about Kali being something that destroys,

(55:54):
you know, people sometimes have this fear of like, oh, well,
destruction is bad. And it's like, well, not from
its own side. If you, if you look at what
Kali's actually eating or what Kali's actually destroying, it's
destroying the causes of suffering, which can be a
painful thing, right. So if I like, there's many ways

(56:16):
that you can have your teacher show up.
The 1st is compassion, but the also a teacher can show up with
wrath because that's what you freaking need, dude.
And so and so when you see something wrathful in your
world, like a president-elect that you may not necessarily
align with, you say thank you for being the exact exact thing
that I need. You know, because now you're

(56:40):
pushing me Tapas, man, cook me. Let's go.
You know what I mean? I I need to level up, you know,
So thank you for helping show mewhere I'm at because I've had a
couple of angry thoughts towardsyou and that's totally
inappropriate. You know, like I wished harm on
you and I don't believe in that,you know, but I had the

(57:00):
opportunity because you gave me a mirror for me to be able to
see that. And then now recommit to my
practice of non violence and compassion.
So that I I will never see violence in my world again.
So let's say, well, I, I think of this, there's a Bikram

(57:23):
documentary a few years ago and people are, you know, talking
about how Bikram would talk to his students.
He'd like fat shame them, body shame them, criticize them, very
harsh and aggressive. But then this one guy is like,
if, if he didn't say that, I would have never changed.
Like I he was like getting more and more overweight and just

(57:43):
feeling worse about himself. And, you know, and he said that
it turned his life around and he's so grateful and so happy
and he needed somebody to kick his ass basically verbally.
And so, you know, there, there are people who like, yeah, they,
we all need different things. And there's people who need
that. And, and they can, that exists
also in the world and they can find those, those resources too.

(58:05):
But it's not. Forever those resources.
I love that term. Yeah.
You know, I, I I'm definitely not a student of like I, I don't
I don't know all that stuff about B Chrome.
So, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to say one thing or the
other, but generally speaking inprinciples exactly, you know,
like what one person needs is not what somebody else needs

(58:27):
necessarily. And you know, I'm not trying to
condone or not condone. I just, I just don't know.
But I think that that as a principle of, you know, or a
tool in which to engage with theworld, I think is extremely
healthy and not only allows, empowers us to be better
partners to the people in our world to be like, instead of

(58:47):
what do I want to give you? It's what do you need to
receive? And then may I be that very
thing, you know, it's it's this total birthday, you know, of
like, you know, the world is foris for me, you know, of like
instead of that I am for the world, you know, let me show up
in a dynamic way. And you know, guru yoga, you

(59:08):
know, guru yoga is extremely, extremely powerful.
And again, it's a very intense methodology of yoga that isn't
for necessarily everybody. You know, I think you have to be
in the right. You, you have to really, you
have to get good teachings from compassionate beings to
understand how to engage with that extremely significant and

(59:30):
powerful relationship. But one of my favorite
teachings, and you know, my teacher teaches this like all
the time, is you should be challenging every single thing
that your teacher says. And then, and so why, why would
a teacher do something that you perceive to be something that

(59:51):
hurts you? And the classic example is so
many people love to give away their agency.
Some so many people say, just tell me how to live.
Just tell me. Because it's so much easier to
give somebody else control. It's so much harder to take
responsibility for your Dang life.
And so if, if, if there was truly a compassionate guru, if
there was truly a compassionate teacher who really cared about

(01:00:15):
you, they would so be in such deep pain to see you being
mindless that they would do literally.
Anything that they could to wakeyou up out of your mindlessness.
And if you couldn't get the compassionate teachings, then
they're going to give you the wrathful ones.
Because having a little bit of having a little bit of pain in
this life for a year, you know, whatever is infinitely better

(01:00:40):
than having lifetimes of, of mindlessness that's going to
keep you in cycles of suffering.And so if a guru sees you just
doing whatever the guru says without thinking critically for
yourself, then they're going to tell you to do something that's
going to hurt you so that you can wake up.
And if you don't have that worldview, then that doesn't

(01:01:01):
really work out like that. Right, Yeah, some, some people
want just to be told everything to do and that is their path
that they want to be on. And, but I agree and I think I,
I, I had a similar experience with one of my mentors early on.
I just, I, I basically did hand over my agency, like especially
about this relationship dynamic I was in, like just tell me what

(01:01:23):
to do, please. And he's like, you know what to
do. Like he wouldn't, he wouldn't
tell me what he just insisted that I knew and kept guiding me
back to myself. And I'm so grateful for him.
And I had another teacher at thetime who who did just try to
tell me what to do and everything.
And it became a quite harmful dynamic.
And I needed to get out of that and didn't feel like it was in

(01:01:47):
service of my growth or my path is probably more in service of
their ego. And I think that is the the
thing to look for in teachers especially.
I think Bikram is an example of this.
It seems like there was a lot ofego in his, the role that he
took rather than actual service to the students.
So that ultimately becomes harmful and the words are not

(01:02:10):
there to provoke the students awakening, but just for the
teacher to discharge his anger and to rehash a cycle of like
his Bikram had abuse in his homeand he was abusive to his
students and abusive to his wifeand his partners.
And you know, so there's more ofthis other side of it too.

(01:02:30):
But yeah, I think I totally agree.
Like I, I can question everything you learn from a
teacher and test it and don't take it as the only one.
Only way back to the beginning of our conversation.
It's a wave of our particle, depending what you're looking
for. Yeah, yeah.

(01:02:50):
You know, and, and I think aboutmy high school sweetheart and
our relationship ended really gnarly, unfortunately.
And, you know, in the moment I was like, how could it be that,
you know, I'm and it was like, this is so bad, This is so bad.
But then it became the foundation for me to be the
person I wanted to be and to understand what I want a

(01:03:14):
relationship to be like in my life.
And then, you know, the next woman I fell in love with is now
my wife. And you know, things are really
good, you know, and so and so in, in one way we can say that
my partner or me or both of us, you know, we were bad right in

(01:03:34):
the, in the previous relationship.
But I think that that's a reallyshort sighted, you know, and not
the yoga Pradipika. We're talking about the
Pradipika here, right? Of course, launches tomorrow.
There's this term called Kala danda.
Kala is time danda's staff. Kala also means death.
And so one of the ways to interpret kala danda is people

(01:03:55):
who have beaten death to death. So you like beat death with a
stick until it dies. You have beaten death itself.
And so I think the ninth first of the 1st chapter of the
Pradipika, it says that there are Kaladonda roaming the egg of
Brahma. There are these people who have
achieved the goal of yoga, who have beaten death to death.

(01:04:17):
You know, however you'd like to define death, you can have fun
with that one. But there's people who have, who
have beaten that and they're here.
And so where are they specifically, you know, and all
of a sudden you got to start getting suspicious of, of, you
know, who people are that are showing up in your world.
And so, you know, when I look back at that old partner of
mine, you know, I think a, a, a lower version of me was she's

(01:04:40):
insufficient, she's bad, she's blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, but at least the lens that I've learned to look
through in a way that gosh, it'sso healing, Jeremy.
You know, it's just it's it's it's it's the wavelength of
forgiveness. You know, it's the wavelength of
gratitude. Like she was exactly perfect for

(01:05:01):
what I needed in my life to wakeup to get wise and try again.
And who was she really? You know, was she a Khaled
Donda? I don't know.
You know, I'm not gonna say she is.
I'm not gonna say she isn't, butbut what if we were able to look
at all the people who hurt us aspeople who are incredibly
compassionate beings who were only that way because we needed

(01:05:24):
them to be that way and there was no other reason for them to
be that way? How would you engage with the?
World, I just got chills. That's so, yeah.
It's very powerful way to look at it and a very empowering way
to look at our past. Yeah.
And present, yeah. And that's renunciation, you

(01:05:46):
know, that's giving up the causes of suffering by thinking
that people are evil from their own side, you know, and now I
realize that, you know, I can find times when I was not a nice
person in my life. I think, of course I'm going to
see that in my world, you know, like things aren't random, you
know, there is a cause and there's an effect.
And there's no such thing as an effect without a 'cause that's

(01:06:09):
the whole basis of yoga. That is literally the basis of
of yoga seed, fruit. And so look at your garden,
recognize what you got, and thenget to work.
And the seed is always smaller than the fruit.
Love that phrase. I haven't heard that before
either. So and we, we, when we think

(01:06:33):
about the fruits, we, we think big, we, we want it sooner, but
the seed is just that little potential that it's going to
take time. But you know, it's, it starts
small, right? Exactly.
So if people want to check out your course opening up, where do

(01:06:53):
they go? Yeah, so it begins tomorrow,
which is the 14th. So maybe by the time this gets
out into the world, we'll have already started.
But you can join late, no worries.
We have recordings available, soyou can go to Spiritual Warrior
dot Life if you'd like to. If you'd like to learn more

(01:07:14):
about the institute, you can go to yogastudiesinstitute.org.
We work through a network of distributors that help us to
localize and naturalize things to different languages and
different communities across theworld.
So Chinese, you know, we got distributors for Chinese
language, etcetera. So Yoga Studies Institute is
kind of the central hub. And then you'll shoot out to
whatever culture you want to connect with.

(01:07:35):
So Spiritual Warrior dot Life iswhere you can find this course
in English and then that's whereI put out some of my own courses
and content from what my teachers taught me that don't
necessarily fall under the Yoga Studies Institute umbrella.
Amazing. Well, it's been such a joy to
talk with you and I have to do it again sometime.

(01:07:59):
So yeah, thank you for being here and talk soon.
Thank you and I'll see you in the stars.