How to Analyze Marketing Data To Improve Your ROI [Emma Lo Russo Interview]

Episode Transcript
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Neal Schaffer (00:01):
data, it's all about the data. You got to
understand marketing data andapply those insights to improve
your business. But how do you doso? I think this is a challenge
that I face that a lot ofmarketers and businesses face
and I believe you my podcastlistener faces as well. That's

(00:21):
why I decided to reach out to anexpert on this very topic to
teach us how to best leveragemarketing data to fuel our
business growth. This is goingto be a free masterclass where
I'm gonna know Russell, CEO andco founder of one of digital
marketing's best kept secrets. Adigital marketing ROI dashboard,

(00:43):
called Digi advisor is going tocome and present on 10 ways to
use data to transform yourdigital marketing and drive
business growth. Tuesday, May30 11am, Pacific 2pm Eastern
free masterclass, go to Nealschaffer.com/did your visor dash

(01:04):
webinar, this will be in theshow notes as well, but Neal,
schaffer.com/di GIVIZ e r dash,w EB i n AR, divisor dash
webinar Neil's you havea.com/divisor-webinar Don't make
me repeat that again. I will seeyou on May 30. As marketers and

(01:29):
business owners contentcreators, we use lots of tools
for our marketing. And everytool is bombarding us with lots
of different data that shows ourperformance. But how do we piece
together this data and actuallyconnect it to actionable insight
that will drive our businessforward. That is the topic of

(01:49):
this next episode of the digitalmarketing coach podcast. Digital
social media content influencermarketing, blogging, podcasting,
blogging, tick talking LinkedIn,Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, emailmarketing, who there's a lot to

(02:10):
cover, whether you're amarketing professional
entrepreneur, or business owner,you need someone you can rely on
for expert advice. Good thingyou've got, Neil, on your side,
because Neal Schaffer is yourdigital digital marketing
marketing coach, helping yougrow your business with digital

(02:32):
first marketing one episode at atime. This is your digital
marketing coach. And this isNeal Schaffer Digital Marketing
ROI. There's a lot to be saidfor digital being measurable,
getting lots of data and beingable to analyze it. But what

(02:53):
exactly do we do with all thatdata? I don't care what digital
or social media marketing orcontent marketing tool you, us,
marketers, and entrepreneurs andcontent creators, we're flooded
with data. And we need to makesense of this. In my career,
I've always thought there shouldbe a tool that can help us
better measure this core ROI. Infact, I'm so passionate about

(03:16):
this subject, that a while ago,I actually planned on creating
such a tool. I even went as faras as creating a beta version,
which never saw the light ofday, this is like 10 years ago.
And that's why I was reallyexcited when I had the chance to
learn about a tool calleddigitizer, which basically does
what I wanted that tool to dofor me. There aren't many tools

(03:38):
out there that does this. So Idon't want to talk about the
tool. This is not a sales pitch,I want to talk to the founder,
so that we can all get somebasic advice on how we can
better leverage this data forour own business to grow our
business. That's the wholeintent. The whole reason why
we're doing all of this digitalmarketing. So without further
ado, I want to welcome EmmaLaura. So who is the CEO and

(04:01):
founder of Digi visor to thestream, it's really an honor to
have you on today. Emma, we'vewe've you know, talked about
doing this for a while so gladto finally make it happen.

Emma Lo Russo (04:10):
Now, thanks for having me. Now, I always love
chatting to you. I think we'revery aligned on where we see
opportunities for brands.

Absolutely. And well, I guess, you know, you did
something you founded a companythat provides this tool,
something I always wanted to do.
I'm curious as to what yourbackstory is that got you
involved in all of this what youknow, before starting visualizer
what is it that you did that gotyou so passionate about, you
know, analytics and digitalmarketing measurement?

I think I mean, I spent my career started in
advertising but very quicklyflipped into marketing. I liked
the strategy side of it headedup marketing for corporate. So
that was my history. So whenyou're responsible for budgets
and resources, you're alwayslooking for how to maximize that
return. Yeah, how can you get abetter cost per call? decision

(05:00):
of a customer or you know how todrive greater upsell or
retention strategies or loyaltyreferral programs. And so data
became something that I wasseeking as a CMO. In those
organizations. My career thenwent further into technology, I
headed up as President, ChiefOperating Officer of Altium,
which is a ASX listed top fivetech company here in Australia.

(05:24):
And I think they're inelectronics design, just seeing
what was happening with smartdevices. And it was just that
realization of the whole worldchanging where the consumer
would own the brand brands wouldno longer own their brands and
the way that they had before,and the power was going to be
all won, or lost in how peopleinteracting with their devices,

(05:44):
whenever, wherever, and at theirconvenience that coincided with
social. So social was emerging,and like just seeing that how
quickly people wanted to engageand learn and trust people
rather than brands as well. Andso it was just seeing this huge
sort of untapped data market, ifyou like it was That's how I

(06:06):
felt that every brand wouldwould end up on digital because
the consumer was going that way.
And whoever could make sense,and meaning from all that data
and help brands make betterdecisions would win. So I left
the safety of corporate set upDigi visor, and have just been
on that journey. Like how can Ihelp brands understand that
digital footprint of theircustomer, those they wish with

(06:27):
the customer and reallyunderstand that journey on their
terms? Right? Where are they?
What do they care about? Youhave that social search on their
website? And then, you know,still make that really easy?
Because I've got that lens ofthe ultimate customer, right?
What did I need to make betterdecisions? How can I drive a
better return on on where I'mchoosing to invest my money? So

(06:49):
that's, that's just been reallya passion, I guess, that I've
seen right through my career andstill at digitizer?

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. Because I mean, when
I created my tool, I had toexplain why the data was
important. Yeah, to I even didsort of like not like a startup.
But I met with a few local angelinvestors, and I had to sort of
convince them why it wasimportant as well. So I find
that there's a lot of technologyout there, that was developed by

(07:14):
technology, people that are sortof looking for a market, right,
whereas you have the marketingexpertise. And you know, you
know, similar to my perspective,you know, what the market needs,
and therefore, you're gonna goout and create that tool because
it doesn't exist. So I lovethat, you know, that that sort
of background, when you starteddigitizer? I'm assuming you had

(07:35):
to go out there and get yourfirst initial clients, and maybe
the company you used to workfor, maybe they became one of
them. But what were some of thevalue points, what were the
things, some of the things youtalked about? What were the few
key struggles that you found,that you've been able to help
customers with since startingthe company.

So now I think you're right, just going back to
when you might have been looking1012 years did you guys is now
12 years, social was still verynew. So I was just assuming
everyone will just get what theway social was going to go and
that everything would go tomobile commerce and the things
that are all played out. Butactually back then most
companies were resisting,because they would refer to like

(08:12):
their young child, you know, thedata point of one, you know, my
child said, this is just forkids. This isn't for my, my
company. And so it was quite aninteresting time. I also thought
it would be adopted by agenciesvery early. But agencies also
were learning about this. Andgoing from big ideas, selling an
idea, the measurement wasn'treally part of the strategy or

(08:33):
how they forged it. So one ofthe ways that we did, we were
very successful, because I hadcome I guess from enterprise
selling technology, I was ableto sell technology into
enterprises, and that actuallyprovided the first customers and
the first opportunity to provethe value. So using insights

(08:56):
everyone did still this is rightat that time, cloud was still
very early, where people weretrying to get an understanding
of their customer so that thatmatcher of single view of the
customer, and customercentricity and, you know, that
was kind of the themes of theday. And so that's basically
where I position is, this is howyou could know more about your
customers, you could know wherethey are, you could know what
they cared about, you know, backthen data was a lot freer. So we

(09:20):
could also do a lot of appendingof data from social on to CRM.
And so it became an NF and thatactually helped fuel because
when you sell to enterprise,then they're not interested
really like once you've gonethrough, you know, whatever the
proof of concept, or theirinitial project is generally
once they've got an idea of it,they'll then adapt it and

(09:41):
they'll still stay with it. Sosome of those customers from
now, you know, over 10 yearsago, you know, like Lenovo and
Optus and some of these biggerones, they're still our
customers today. So that's beenbeen an interesting journey. We
then realized and again back tokind of passion points. I don't
like that the best technologyHe's only available to a few

(10:01):
companies and a lot oftechnology companies priced that
way. So only the best get it.
And it's and it's quiteexpensive and it prices, those
who are trying to innovate, orcome up with great ideas to be
able to do it. So, as ourjourney continued, we were
really like, motivated to howcan we make the best of our
technology available toeveryone, we launched that as
SAS, and now we've got somethingthat can help any business, from

(10:23):
a creator, small business allthe way through. And that's it's
the same challenge, right. Andit's actually the same week for
those companies, if they takethat data driven approach. They
know that their customers areout there, like they are on
their phones, as we see when wego out to restaurants, and out
in the street, public transport,like everyone is on their phone.

(10:44):
And that's how they're learning.
And that's how they'reresearching. And that's how
they're engaging, communicatingand buying, right, it's
convenient to buy. So, you know,knowing then how to structure
and read those insights of whereyour customers are, and what
content is actually working. Andwhat when you're investing time
and money. So resources, whetherthat's in house creative or in

(11:07):
house, you know, content thatthey're writing, or publishing
to a to have a blog or to thewebsite, or paying paid media,
like this is an investment. Sothey need to know what that
return is. And so we've madethat possible now for everyone.

So you started with obviously the experience,
the expertise, launched thecompany, which it sounds like at
the beginning was more of atechnology, consult consultants
last technology of helping theLenovo and these big
enterprises. And then at somepoint, you productized that
experience into the dashboardthat did advisors today, is that
sort of the correct sort of,yeah, that's

the way to look at the journey. I mean, it was
it was consulting insights,initially, it was very much all
project based work. And we didthat primarily for enterprises
for a good good part of ourhistory, it's only been the last
three years that we've been ableto really take the best of all
that technology because we youknow, we've done a lot of work
on the algorithms around, youknow, natural language

(12:04):
processing, and you know, justhow to transform data at its
crudest point, like what you seein platform, but into things
that actually make it easy forpeople to be able to
investigate, make decisions on.
And so that journey has beenvery much from, you know, get a
handle on all that data is a lotof data out there. So, you know,

(12:24):
you think of all the socialplatforms, all the search
platforms, everything, it's alot of data. And then you know,
taking that from enterpriseproject into a one platform now
everyone can take advantage,Bob.

Yeah, it's interesting, just because you
know, I can you're, you're anentrepreneur, I consider myself
an entrepreneur, I know, we havea lot of entrepreneurs that
listen to this podcast, as well.
And just that entrepreneurialjourney of actually productizing
consultant experience, and whenwe hear about, like Hootsuite
was developed by an agency,right. So we've heard about a
lot of agencies that they createproducts that they productize,
you don't hear a lot aboutconsultants that are able to

(12:57):
productize their knowledge. Sothat's just fascinating,
obviously, well done. So throughall this experience, you've been
doing this for a decade, youknow, the dashboard, the current
iteration, I'm assuming has beenaround several years. And as
well, big, you've helped andseen a lot of the issues that
come up with data measurement,and ROI measurement, visa vie
digital slash content, slashinfluencers, slash social media

(13:18):
marketing, which is like thescope of, of, you know, the
podcast, and the live stream forthose that are watching. So I'm
curious, you know, before webegan this recording, I'm like,
Hey, I'm gonna, let's focus onthree things that our listeners
and our viewers can take away,that can help them three
insights that can help themimprove their marketing. So
let's move on to you know, basedon all your experience, what is

(13:39):
you know, if you were to saythree things, you know, what
would that number one thing bethat, that we're just leaving
money on the table, if we're nottaking advantage of this insight
that our data shows us?

So I think I mean, the first thing and this
has been true, whether it's alarge organization or a small
organization is generally like,a customer will ultimately
engage with you on your website.
And that is generally the worstperformance. And the easiest way
to get a gain in a company. Soonce you are measuring
everything, so that that's thefoundation, make sure you are

(14:12):
measuring anything, a speed of awebsite, how mobile friendly
that is there, the first twothings, then setting that as the
structure up so that it soundfor search, those principles
just you know, mobile friendlyspeed of sight. And that
structure can make the biggestdifference when it comes to
getting a return on any anythingyou do from there. So whether

(14:36):
you build in and we're going totalk about that and now the
tips, but you know, your organicsearch strategy, that's
foundation to like everyone canwin on that. So how do you
actually think about that, andI'll talk about that in detail
that paid as well. So linked tothe health of your website. So
measuring and being across thatand being aware of how that's
performing what's driving yourtraffic. Yeah, what's driving

(14:59):
the highest converting trafficbeing able to measure that, but
really looking at those healthmeasures of, you know, mobile
friendly speed, and structure?

And are those things where you recommend your
clients to, you know, everyevery day, every week, every
month, go to, you know,PageSpeed, you know, whatever
the website that Google has atthe time to measure how you're
doing, or are there othermetrics that you look for in
like a Google Search Console?

Yeah. So I think so let's that I think let's
touch on them. Maybe the secondpoint, which is the search
strategy, because I actuallythink that insights that you
want to be looking at is, youknow, how is your traffic
growing over over time? What isyour share of that traffic based
on organic search, or paidsearch, and then how much of
that is converting andunderstanding where that traffic

(15:46):
is coming from, because the endthat I believe you should be, I
mean, a marketer should belooking at that every day. And
then minimum once a week, thehealth kind of structure
underneath that's like afoundation thing, like you have
to have that right. So I wouldhope that that's part of like,
at least kind of, you know, hereis the before we spend money,
let's get this right. And thenwe're going to measure this

(16:08):
month later to make sure that,you know, with that kind of
continuous kind of SEO,technical support, that your
site's going to be be maintainedat a healthy rate, obviously,
every time you publishsomething, so people forget,
they put the, you know, thesexy, great image that looks
amazing, or a video on theirsite, and it slows it down. And
so they don't realize like, asthey're adding these things that

(16:30):
they need to think about, orpublish a page without putting
in the right kind of technicalheadings, etc. But I think the
measures ultimately, for peopleto look at this need to be, you
know, where are you trying towin ultimately, like, what is
your space? What is your contentstrategy? What are those pillars
that you're looking to win on sothat you can actually develop a
content strategy? To win onthose? And then really measure

(16:53):
then? What it how much of that,that you're winning in terms of
your search, share your organicsearch, share their click
through rate? And then you know,what's actually converting on
site. And then from a paidperspective, you're looking at
how much of that is coming frompaid and the places that you're,
you're paying to do that? What'sconverting from that versus your
organic, so you can also kind ofweigh up what's you know, what's

(17:17):
actually working? Often you get?
Well, any brand can get the bestclue where to spend their money,
in paid search by looking atorganic search and where they're
ranked and how well they'reperforming. You don't want to go
after terms where there's highcompetition, you're going to be
scored poorly, right? You wantto be somewhere where already
Google's recognizing you someauthority, but there's still

(17:38):
money on the table, you haven'tgot a click through rate. But
you're actually in a reasonablygood competitive position. And
then you've got both a contentstrategy and a paid strategy
that can help you lift on that.
And that will always be morecost effective.

Gotcha. So it sounds like what you're saying.
So SEO being this main point.
But before we get into the theactual measurement, it's the
house in order. And that'sabsolutely you know, what is
that stat for every that Amazonsaid, for every second, your
website is slower, you losewhatever billion dollars in E
commerce, I forgot what it was,but or 0.1 seconds. So we know
that so it almost sounds like,you know, with paid, it's like,

(18:15):
well, we have keywords, we throwmoney out, we check our
conversions. But we're looking alittle bit more holistically,
starting with the organic,almost like that funnel that
says what, you know, what arethe keywords? How many
impressions This is generatingon search engines? What is the
click through rate of thoseorganic impressions? And then
further down the funnel? What isactually converting at the end
of the day? And you know, howare we doing better month, a

(18:37):
month? And now that we see wehave certain organic keywords
that are converting better thanothers? How do we double down on
those as part of the paidstrategy, which is going to help
that part be more effective aswell?

Yep. And I think now the key here is like, what,
where do you want to win? So Ithink a lot of, you know, back
to, you know, between theadvertising agencies, the old
days where it was just sell theidea. And of course, you do need
to make sure that you'rehighlighting your
differentiation, right? Likeyour position that's different,
like how are you helping makeyou know, this person's life

(19:09):
easier or sexier? Or, you know,creating greater value for them?
So yes, that has to becommunicated. But understanding
the way people search does it intheir context. And so actually
understanding and you know, wetalk about this jobs to be done,
which is your help peopleactually searching. They're
searching to solve theirproblem. And so the language

(19:32):
that they use can really helpyou determine what your kind of
strategy is going to be yourcontent strategy. So actually
even getting that narrowed downto here's where we're going to
play, this is where we're goingto win. Therefore, everything we
do is going to work towardsthis, that that focus of
resources, both from the contentthat you're creating or the

(19:53):
campaign and creative and whereyou're putting paid they have to
work together. And that thosemeasures you were talking about
of being out to then see, howare you winning and hopefully
growing that share of it? Andhow much of that is converting
for you? How is that improvinglike in terms of Google's
recognition of your authority byby page ranking, like, they're
the things that can actuallygive you a really good sense of

(20:15):
continued focus, right. Andthat's where your win, like
anyone can do this, you can dothis without that paid budget.
So coming back to how the Howdoes everyone win websites, you
know, a search strategies, likeanyone can do that. Right?

Yeah, you know, it's fascinating. I just came
off a fractional cmo call with aclient, and, you know, what are
those keywords that generatebusiness? And I'd hate for, you
have a misaligned keywordstrategy. So you go into your
divisor dashboard, it's like,wow, this is my number one, you
know, traffic in terms of, youknow, everything organic, but it
drives zero conversions. And youbasically misaligned with what

(20:49):
you should be targeting? Yes.
And so really does start withthe keyword strategy. And you
know, I'm sure you'd agree, it'sa lot of it is also about search
intent of actually going intoGoogle like anything else,
right? If you want to get big onYouTube, consume a lot of
YouTube videos in your industry,you want to go big on Tick, tock
consume a lot of similartiktoks. Same thing with search,
look at the search intent ofthat keyword. And, you know,
because Google is using their AIto tell you, this is what they

(21:10):
think people are looking for.
And, you know, you might find,like branded content, keywords
in keywords you think you shouldbe targeting when you're never
going to rank number one, etcetera, et cetera. So I couldn't
agree more that, you know, youcan get a lot of data, but the
data is only as good as thekeywords. And that's only as
good as that infrastructure thatyou have set up to begin with.
Yeah.

And actually, I mean, it's a good point to make,
just in general, like when wetalk about data and ROI, like,
to me, it's, it's important thatyou're making data driven
decisions, it's not enough tohave the data. And so if we look
at why a lot of organizationsget in trouble, it's because all
that data, or those that hold,the Insights is quite hidden in

(21:51):
their organization. So thosethat are actually good at
determining strategy or anorganization to have sort of a
common view of what's going on,and where to focus and to have
that aligned all the way down intheir, you know, kind of go to
market strategy. Therefore, yes,their marketing strategy, but
every piece of that, like you dowant to have that level of

(22:11):
transparency, and decisionmaking and making you know, that
data driven decisions, which isdifferent from having data,
right. So think, you know, toyour point of like, look for
those intent, that's a that's a,an important way of saying,
Where are we going to play? Howdo we understand the job that
needs to be done or input makingsure this is aligned to where we
can actually help them? How dowe tell that story better,

(22:33):
right? Because people,particularly in search, right,
they're looking for an answer.
And most people just blurb whatthey think they're great at, as
opposed to answering what thatintent was.

Well, and I love your point about and I, you
know, obviously, with adashboard like yours, you can
bring that transparencythroughout the organization. So
the product, marketers canunderstand what's working from
an organic keyword, you know,perspective, for instance, the
performance marketing can seethe organic that your, your PR
team can can check your youknow, it just the more data
that's easily accessible toeverybody, the data truly

(23:05):
becomes the asset as it shouldfor the entire organization. And
I see so many, I'm sure you doas well. siloed and fragmented,
even within marketing, why don'tthey all have access to the same
data? Yeah, it's crazy.

I mean, what we've got custom and even some
larger ones were like, it'sliterally started from the CEO
saying, I'm sick of seeingdifferent sets of data, everyone
fights over it, you know,they're inconsistent, they come
late. So that was these otherbugbear you know, three weeks
after the end of the month orquarter, too late, because, you

(23:37):
know, the decisions already beenmade to put to play that next
month or Porter's budget. Butthey've even extended it, we've
got instances into their financeteam because of modeling, right?
How much is actually being spentwhat what does it look like in
terms of, say early loanapplications to what's actually
going to fall through in termsof likely revenue. So it's a

(23:59):
really interesting thing, if youcreate that one single source of
truth platform for everyone togo out, no one can hide. And
actually, you know, in that Ithink, you know, we back to
those early days of trying toyou know, sell social like the
one of the the resistance wecome up sometimes is just the

(24:19):
person who doesn't want theirperformance to be seen by
others. And it's a reallyinterest I think those people
won't be around for much longerbecause the pressure from the
top is coming down so boards seeEO Ayios you know, you know, the
C level are saying let's have abetter handle on what's going on
because so much of our businessso much of the way we engage our

(24:42):
customers is now digital, wehave to have this this you know,
single platform to all thissource of truth that we can feel
confident and rely on and nothave anyone hide and I think
when you have your organizationgo back to this is all
hypothesis. It's all learning,test and learn. But we learned
together, right? The point is tolearn there's nothing fixed.

(25:02):
That's the beauty of digital, itis measurable it can, you can
change it at Not, not the samecost the same rigging off your,
your Superbowl ad, right. Like,it's a very different way to be
able to, to make change, to winon. So

I've seen it a lot, you know, Facebook will
always say that their adsdelivered this month sales,
Google will say that, you know,attribution and what you do with
that, but when you havedifferent divisions that are
measuring differently, I haveseen firsthand of marketers
because they want to make theirjob look good. They will
attribute revenue that's like,Well, wait, where did you get

(25:38):
that number from? But unless youhave a digital dashboard, you
don't know, you know, if, and Iknow a lot of small businesses
are still doing Excel and whathave you. And that's okay. But
at some point, you need to getdigital, so that it's impartial,
as you said, it's a learningit's not about selling good or
bad. It's just aboutunderstanding the investment and
the ROI and where you shift thatinvestment over time.

Yeah. So back to that I think that data driven
decision making, like if you canget everyone in an organization
to see it that way that this isjust like, Everything we're
doing is is a hypothesis, it'sintestine, learn their stages of
that customer journey from youknow, they don't know you to,
they're considering you tothey're buying from you or

(26:19):
they're buying again from youlike if you're measuring that in
one place, then you can start totest all the way through like if
we do this differently or put toplay an A B like is the better
than a if B is then then pushthat forward. And so you you can
actually incrementally be in acontinuous improvement, you

(26:40):
know, towards greater ROI bytaking that view that there is
no perfect world, right? This isall, something that's just able
to be measured, giving greatinsight as to what's happening
with your customer and howthey're interpreting or feeling
about the content that you'reputting out there. Or the needs
for your product. Right. So thisis this is just a great source

(27:01):
of insight to make this never

ending experiment, but the data and
data we trust. So on that note,so one of the insightful sort of
ways that we can analyze thedata is that whole, you know,
that whole funnel the organicversus paid the keywords that
sort of SEO, so what would beanother, you know, instance of
an area where we should reallybe as marketers locked in, to

(27:23):
better understand how ourbusiness is doing do digital
marketing.

Yeah. So I think as soon as you're putting
anything, which so so maybe yourcustomer doesn't know you,
right, so you do need to thinkabout a paid strategy, I think,
then looking at where yourcustomers are. So again, this is
still test, you can test this inorganic before it goes into
paid. But understanding thatwhen you go out into social,
you're generally interruptingpeople from what they want to

(27:50):
do. And so you need to thinkabout the ways that you build
your content to be in thatcontext. So like a top of
funnel, quick video, in a kindof infotainment way can be a
really great way to start tointroduce your brand in a way
that is not offensive or notgoing to be immediately blocked

(28:12):
by the person that you're tryingto target. But making sure that
that has, is able to be youknow, retargeted so that you
know that that firstinterruption in hopefully that
customers terms is able then tobe taken on a journey at a much
lower cost rate. So seeing thatfunnels that we talked about, if
they don't know you, how do youinterrupt them there to what do

(28:35):
they see next to when they startto look for you? What is that
consideration, journey all theway through to conversion, think
same content also, that way,like I'm playing to that, and
then when you're thinking aboutyour budget, the it's really
about the size of the funnel,you need to close to
understanding those metrics. Soa lot of people get traditional

(28:56):
sales, and they'll know exactlyhow many people they need to
speak to, you know, to getsomeone to sign up digital is
the same how many people do weneed to reach? So making sure
that funnel is wide enough atthat top and you're looking at
low cost ways video is a greatway to what are those next steps
and the content to take someoneon a journey if they don't know
how to they want to buy from youthat being a deliberate strategy

(29:19):
put to play and then being ableto put your budgets against that
to then be able to measure itseffectiveness. So back to
measurement. How is your top offunnel going to how's your
middle of funnel going versusyour bottom of funnel conversion
like understanding it in thosetears that that can also be
incredibly insightful to drivebetter decisions.

So within an you know, within my divisor
dashboard I'm looking at youhave this concept of followers.
And then how many people did youtouch with your content?
engagements, right? And thenobviously within your content
with what is driving moreengagement and then below that,
obviously, then you get into theGoogle Analytics part which is
how much traffic does thatgenerate? And then at the end of

(30:00):
that, how many leads and howmany conversions?

That's right. And then if you're doing paid media,
you've got the same reflect onhow many people did you reach
how many people engaged orclicked through or took an
action all the way through toconversion? So you want to be
able to see that and then what'syour return on advertising
spend? So that's all modeled byplatform or by campaign? Like,
it's, everything's designed tobe able to answer that question

(30:25):
of like, what's working best foryou, so you can do more for it,
or what's not working, so youcan stop doing it. But actually
understand the standing what'sdriving that value all the way
through, including what'sbringing new cut new visitors to
your website, right. So you alsowant to have that, when you're
looking at the data of how manyof the people visiting me are

(30:46):
new visitors to my site versusthose that have visited me
before, because that's reallyshowing your you're growing, who
you're likely to reach, andhopefully put into your funnel
to conversion.

Awesome. So we covered some SEO data that can
give us some insights, we lookat how the social media data
fits into the whole picture ofthe funnel, what would be
another sort of point, anotherdata point that we can look at
to gain some more insights?

Yeah, look, I think, you know, so I know you
talk a lot about influencers, Ithink, knowing who's talking
about your brand is anotherreally good thing to have a look
at who's tagging you, or using ahashtag that you might be
interested in, to identify thosethat actually are talking about

(31:34):
you, but may also be someonethat you want to engage from
earn media perspective, and bythat it's just engaged with it
right socially is, is just whatthe name suggests, right? It
should be an engagement orconversation. And people I
think, forget that they puttheir content out there, they're
so busy measuring whethersomeone seen it first and you
know, click through but youknow, the opportunity in

(31:56):
building loyalty and interest,and particularly like, this is
important b2b strategiesactually engage with people who
are engaging with you, and seewho are experts around the
things that you, you might havea solution for. Because if you
can engage a, having someone saysomething about you, you or

(32:17):
having someone genuinely reflecttheir feelings, apart from a
great insight you can get canactually influence many more
than anything that you can dofrom paid media. So we always
look at it from measuring yourorganic, so your own media,
that's a really important way.
And there's still a lot of valueto be driven there. Like I know,
Neil, like, you drive so muchfor your organic strategy as as

(32:38):
does divisor because we'velearned how to do that very
well, right, just keep producingcontent people really care about
that then sits on your website,that they could, you know, are
also searching to see that'sbringing this incredible stream
of people who are justcontinuing to get value and
learning. But if you want toenrich them, like having that,
you know, having a pixel on yoursite to be able to retarget them

(33:00):
so that if they've come througha particular topic, and you know
that you could potentially helpthem then then being able to do
that. So that's organic, earnedis that actually understand who
your fans or people who areexperts or you know, are really
creating the most engagementaround the topics that might be
something that you want toengage them around. And then,
you know, looking at paid media,how that's working for you,

(33:24):
because that's the biggestopportunity to get a was it,
it's going to be the mostexpensive mistakes, or it can be
the most optimized return,right? No one cares if you bring
in a customer if the customermakes way more money than than
what your cost per customeracquisition is, right? So you
need to see that as investment.
And you can set that up. So youcan really understand if I spend

(33:46):
$1 Here, what do I get back? Andthen I think you know, that
website is is your how do youactually learn what's converting
for you, so that you canactually have a look. So even
your best performing pages? Howare they set up? To be able to
capture the next step? Likewhat's the value piece?
Potentially, if you're gettinggreat traffic to those pages,
that you could take themsomewhere else? Like how have

(34:07):
you structured your site toharness them?

Yeah, this has been a lot to digest. And I know
that a lot of people listeningmay be wondering, like,
philosophically, yes, we need tomeasure all that. Yeah, but
nobody has time to go fromFacebook Insights to twiddle
analytics to Google, or theyjust get stuck in Google
Analytics. They miss out onGoogle Search Console, they miss

(34:30):
out on the social media andsites. And if you're one of them
like I was, I want to invite youand I think this is a good time
to bring us up. To try outdivisor I am actually a official
officially certified yes had togo through a certification test
of the divisor and therefore formy community. They have a very,
very special plan that allowsyou to have a free trial if you

(34:53):
go to this link, which is Nealschaffer.com/digi advisor and if
you want to find And now moreI've actually invited him. I
know this is only, I mean, thisis a pretty long interview. But
there's a lot more to the storythat I think Emma wants to
share. And I want me to sharewith my community as well. So
actually, we just launched thislanding page today, but on May

(35:16):
30, hopefully you listen orwatch this in time, we are going
to be doing a joint webinar,it's really, um, it's going to
be presenting more in depth. Andnot just three data insights.
But we're planning on havingabout 10. So if you want to dig
deeper into this topic, pleasejoin us for the webinar, go to
Nealschaffer.com/divisor-webinar.

(35:37):
Disclaimer, it is limited to 500attendees last time I did one of
these it got full really fast.
So make sure you sign up earlierrather than later. But Emma,
this has been fantastic. Isthere any other you know, last
piece of advice because youknow, you've covered the own the
earn the paid, we covered butyou know, the the web, the
social, the influencer, anyother sort of last piece of

(35:58):
advice that you want to throwout for our listeners?

Now, I think you made the point of don't waste
your time getting bogged downtrying to get it from all those
different places, right, becausethey make it difficult. They
don't, platforms don't want tobe measured against other
platforms either. Right? Sowe've also made that easy by
making it apples to applescomparison. But like, if we want
to survive, and there's all thattalk about AI and taking jobs

(36:22):
and other assets, just like makesure you're putting your mind to
making better decisions, likewhere are your what is the
information that allows you toweigh up opportunity, or risk
and to make just ultimatelybetter decisions and think about
that strategy of like, what dowe do next? Being free to do
that is going to drive much morevalue than being caught in those

(36:45):
weeds and thinking that, youknow, trying to put this into
one place. Without spendingmoney, it's a it's a waste of
money trying spinning it ananalyst trying to wire this up
yourself or no, you tried to dothis, it's expensive to do this,
right? It's hard to do. It's alot of time, don't spend your
time there, right, spend yourtime making better decisions.
That's what we all love doing isseeing our strategy comes into

(37:06):
play. So that we win.

Yeah, if you're spending, you know, or if you
have an employee spending oneday of their month to create
this monthly report, that's 5%of their salary. There's,
there's obviously value, it'salso just the time, you
shouldn't have to wait for areport to be manually generated
to have access to thisinformation. I mean, you know,
when there was a new Googlealgorithm change, when there was
a Twitter algorithm change, youwant to know right away what the

(37:30):
impact is. So you really need areal time data. And I'm a big
fan of digibytes because youprovide that obviously, in real
time to help all of us so we'renear the end. Obviously, I gave
the Link Neal schaffer.com/digi.
Advisor, any other place youmight want to send people.

Um, look, I mean, I think you've got incredible
resources on your website. Didyou guys a.com has a lot of how
to like how to get going inthese platforms. You know, you
touched on Tik Tok before is apotential strategy for for
someone who wants to win on ticktock, I mean, any of these
platforms is huge opportunities.
We've got how tos on all ofthem, how to get going. So I
think you know, I'd love to seeyou at the next event. Really

(38:11):
happy to answer questions. Loveyou to follow us. Please check
out Neil's offers that we'vewe've partnered with Neil. I do
love everything that Neil says.
So he's someone to listen to,because he's put it to play and
that people like Neil, and youknow, like, what did you advise
has been based around it's like,genuinely helping you understand

(38:35):
how to get more value, use yourtime more wisely and get a
greater return.

Awesome. Thank you so much. I want to end with
just some shout out. So Charlie,boy, always appreciate your
dropping in. So thank you. Ifany of you are still tuned in,
if you want to toss in aquestion, there's still time to
do that. Jordan, alwaysappreciate the support my
friend, hopefully this waseducational for you. We have a
long one, I'm going to put on myreading glasses for this one
from Tony untapped data market.
This is at the core of whatwe're doing with a device. So I

(39:02):
think that Tony is an employeeof the divisor. But
nevertheless, it's really abouttapping into the data. Marketers
can better understand their bangfor buck in terms of digital
marketing performance, exactlywhat channels performing or not
performing, and what insightswill inform when this strategy
is working. So Tony, appreciatethat comment coming all the way
over from LinkedIn. And I thinkthat about sums up really what

(39:25):
this This interview was allabout. Right?

It Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Neil.
Really appreciate your takingthe time.

All right. Thank you. And once again, we'll see
you on the webinar may 30.
Neil's here. for.com/divisor daswebinar until next time, have a
good one. Hope you enjoyed thatinterview with Emma as much as I
did. I can sometimes geek out onthe data. But in the back of my
mind, I'm not geeking out I'malways trying to find the data

(39:56):
find the connections find In theinsight, and at the end of the
day, you need to have output.
It's not data analytics for dataanalytics sake. It's finding
something and putting it intoaction inputting that data into
a process, or activity, whateverthat is, that is the connection

(40:16):
that I want you to find. Now, Iknow that this interview was a
little bit short, as mentioned,and I'm accelerating the
publication of this podcast sothat it comes out in time I am
doing a special one hourmasterclass with me on this very
topic, where we're going to gobroader and deeper into these
topics. So make sure that you goto Neal
schaffer.com/deviser-webinar.
That's di GIVIZ e r dashwebinar, and you'll be able to

(40:43):
apply and hopefully grab a seatfor the special master class on
May 30 2023. If you're listeningafter that, go to that URL or go
to Neal schaffer.com/events. Andyou can put your email address
in there and then I will notifyyou in the future. I am trying
to do these free educationalmaster classes on a monthly

(41:05):
basis. So make sure you staytuned so that you can connect
the dots between this podcast inyour business. All right, well,
that concludes another.
Hopefully you agree with me. I'malways excited by these
interviews and recording thispodcast but another exciting and
hopefully actionable andinsightful episode of the

(41:25):
digital marketing coach podcast.
This is your digital marketingcoach. Neal Schaffer signing
out. You've been listening toyour digital marketing coach,
questions, comments, requests,links, go to podcast dot Neal
schaffer.com. Get the show notesto this and 200 plus podcast
episodes and Neal schaffer.comto tap into the 400 Plus blog

(41:47):
post that Neil has published tosupport your business. While
you're there, check out Neil'sDigital First group coaching
membership community if you oryour business needs a little
helping hand. See you next timeon your digital marketing coach.

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