How mail theft fuels the check-fraud boom

The big story of check fraud is not only its vast cost to the country and to individual victims, but simply the remarkable rate at which it is increasing. On this episode of the ABA Banking Journal Podcast — presented by nCino — we bring you a conversation from the ABA Fraudcast with ABA’s Paul Benda and Caitlin Piasecki of the United States Postal Inspection Service the enormous scale and challenge of addressing mail theft, a common venue for criminals to access paper checks.

Piasecki describes how the internet serves as a perfect sharing and recruiting platform for criminals aiming to get their hands on as many paper checks as possible. Encrypted platforms are where criminal organizations in New Jersey can easily connect with those operating in Los Angeles, she notes. “We have seen a huge influx in the complex nature these investigations have taken, where previously it was a local group in a local area,” she says.

Episode Transcript

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: I think the biggest thing is having the (00:01):
undefined
partnership with the banks to get ustimely information and good documentation.
So good SAR filingsversus defensive ones.
You know, if they have the same phonenumber calling in the same IP, that kind
of stuff, we ask, like, build a goodSAR for us so that we can, you know,
cut off the head of the snake versuskind of chasing the tail, so to speak.

Evan Sparks (00:25):
From the American Bankers Association, this is the
A BA Banking Journal podcast.
Welcome back.
Today is today's episode is presentedby nCino, and I'm going to turn the
microphone over once again to mycolleague Paul benda, who is the host
of a relatively new podcast from a BAcalled the ABA Fraudcast, all about
cybersecurity, fraud scams, and other, andother, and ways things banks need to know

(00:48):
to protect their banks and protect theircustomers, critical information from Paul.
Earlier this week at a BA, we hosted ourfirst ever check fraud symposium, bringing
together experts from banks of all sizes,representatives from law enforcement
federal banking agencies , the paymentsystem, the vendor, community and consumer
groups, all with a purpose of helping tostrategize together on ways that we can

(01:14):
continue to move the needle on check fraudand protect banks and their customers.
There will be a lot of future contentcoming out from, out from the ABA
Banking Journal on these topics.
But one of the speakers at thissession was Caitlin Piasecki from
the US Postal Inspection Service.
She brought a fantastic perspective to thesymposium on what the US Postal Inspection
Service is seeing in terms of how mailtheft intersects with check fraud.

(01:39):
Paul recently had a conversation withCaitlin on the podcast, and we wanted
to bring this conversation to ourbroader ABA Banking Journal audience.
So go ahead and have a listen.

Paul Benda, ABA (01:56):
From the American Bankers Association, I'm Paul Benda,
and this is the third episode ofour new podcast, the ABA Fraudcast.
Last episode I talked aboutAI-enabled fraud and how easy it
is to duplicate someone's voice.
My daughter Quinn made her podcast debut,the little star that she is, and it
was scary how I could copy her voice,and it really shows how you need to

(02:16):
be careful anytime someone calls you.
They could have copied that voice andthose scammers can use that against you.
So if you haven't heard that one, I highlyrecommend you go back and listen to it.
A lot of neat AI tricks in there.
But today we're going to go old school.
We're going to talk about check fraud.
Some of you may sound crazy becauseno one you know uses checks.
When was the last time you wrote a check?
You know, people tell me theycan't even find their checkbook.

(02:37):
But unfortunately, there'sstill a lot of checks out there.
I want to back up and talkabout checks and let's just
think about them for a minute.
What a check really is.
So let me ask you a question.
Would you ever give a stranger a pieceof paper with your name on it, your
address on it, maybe your bank routingnumber and your bank account number?

(02:59):
Maybe if they asked for it,your driver's license number,
your Social Security number.
No, no one in their right mind wouldever give a stranger that information.
And yet we do it millionsof times a day with checks.
I'm old enough to remember when Iactually had my checks printed with
my Social Security number on them.
You know, these are an inherentlyinsecure form of payment.
It's a piece of paper that isnot encrypted that gets passed

(03:20):
around by random people who canthen access that information.
And then it goes into our mail systemand it can get stolen out of there or it
can get stolen out of multiple places.
Whether it's you drop it in sometype of payment drop box at your
rent place or some other place.
There are people thatwill steal these checks.
So why are we talkingabout check fraud though?
I thought you said noone uses checks anymore.

(03:42):
The problem is check fraudor check usage is going down.
You know, you are right.
It is going down.
The Federal Reserve tracks the numberof commercial checks they process.
Hard to find good data on consumerchecks, but commercial checks are down 5.
4 percent in the last year, and almost50 percent in the last 10 years.
But we still process 11.9 million checksa day, 3 billion checks a year, and you

(04:09):
know the annual value of those checks?
And these are commercial checks only,by the way, the annual value of those
checks that are processed, $8.2 trillion.
So I had to double check my numbersthere and make sure I'm not misreading
that website, but it is $8.2 trillion.
What's really interesting though, iswhile the volume's down 50% since 2013,

(04:29):
the total value of those checks that areprocessed is actually up so it's $8.2
trillion in 2024, $8 trillion in 2013.
So we've got less checks,but higher dollar volumes.
So why are checks sticking around?
Why are the values going up?
Well, one, you know, no one sendssmall check payments anymore.
We've got great electronic rails, tosend those payments that we go out.

(04:52):
You can use a peer to peer paymentapp like Zelle, ACH transactions
are more readily available.
So people in businessesare using that less often.
You know, a lot of times my daughter'sin club volleyball, you make payments
to people, you Zelle them the money.
It's a lot easier to do than writingsomeone a check, but it is still one
of the highest or one of the easiestways to make a high dollar payment.

(05:13):
You know, if you're having homerenovation done, they probably
don't want you to pay that$25,000 bill with a credit card.
So they want you to write a check orthey want you to wire money to them.
It's easy.
It's free for consumers and people arelike, Oh, I'm just giving them the check.
Well, the problem is you're putting allthat very sensitive information on a piece
of paper that you then lose control of.

(05:34):
It was fascinating.
I was talking to another ABA stafferwho was having home renovation work
done and he knows about check fraud.
And so he really didn'twant to give them a check.
And he said, well, howabout I wire you the money?
You know, give me your bank accountnumber and I'll send you the money.
It's a very secure way to transfer it.
And the contractor looked at himand said, well, I don't want to
give you my bank account number.
And so you're forced to give them apiece of paper with this, with your bank

(05:57):
account number that can go anywhere youwant it, anywhere they want it to go.
And so that's thechallenge that we've got.
And then we still have, youknow, especially, elderly
folks, love to use their checks.
My dad, who is 87, still writeschecks, still sends me a birthday
check, even though I begged him not to.
I set up automatic paymentson his credit card.
And he turned that off because helikes to write his check every month.

(06:19):
So we've scared the bejesus outof them, in terms of electronic
banking or using the internet.
So they're really afraid that they'regonna get scammed or something
bad's gonna happen using, you know,internet banking when that's actually
vastly safer, than writing a check.
And so this is what we'vegot, in terms of to deal with.
There's still a lot of commercialchecks out there, still a lot of
consumers that are writing checks.

(06:40):
And the big problem is the criminals havefigured out these checks are insecure.
They can use this informationand they can copy checks.
They can alter checks.
They can wash checks.
They've got access to all differenttypes of tools and capabilities
that they never had before.
You can buy anything youwant on Amazon or Alibaba.
You can share information acrossthe secure messaging apps that law

(07:01):
enforcement can't break into, andthey can sell different toolkits to
actually build counterfeit checks, theycan sell checks that they've stolen.
And it's this whole ecosystem.
And we're going to talk from, with theU. S. Postal Inspection Service to go
in a little bit more detail on that.
But trying to get an idea ofwhat is the scale of check
fraud that we're dealing with.
The best thing that we can look atis the Financial Crimes Enforcement
Network called FinCEN, collectsSARs, Suspicious Activity Reports,

(07:24):
that banks file, and they file onewhen they deal with check fraud.
So the SARs have more thandoubled in the last few years.
And in fact, in a six month period in2023, FinCEN calculated the value of SARS
filed on mail theft related check fraud.
It was $700 million.
Just in mail theft, check fraudrelated SARS that were filed.

(07:45):
So $700 million.
That gives you an idea.
This is a multibillion dollarproblem that's out there.
And if you talk to anyone, they probablyknow someone whose check has been stolen.
They probably know someonewhose mail has been stolen.
Probably you've seen it onthe neighborhood message
boards that are out there.
Everyone seems to know someone that'shad a check stolen out of the mail.
So where are they?
Where are they getting them?
From the mail, right?

(08:06):
They're robbing mail carriers,mail carrier robberies are up
600%, 600% from 2020 to 2024.
And they're not just robbing them,those mail carriers to get the
checks, they're robbing them toget what are called arrow keys.
These are keys that your mail carrierscarry around to open the blue collection
boxes that you see in the street corners.
If you steal one of these arrow keys,it can actually open up the blue

(08:29):
collection boxes of an entire zip code.
And if you can't steal one from a mailcarrier, you can buy one on Telegram.
So we talked about thesecure messaging apps.
You can actually go out there andfind these types of things for
sale from, from other criminals.
And they can go for as much as$4,000 for a certain zip code.
So the Postal Service hastaken this threat seriously.
They recognize they've got challenges.

(08:49):
They recognize people are stealing mailfrom both the blue collection boxes,
they're infiltrating post offices andsteal mail directly from the post office,
going to mail distribution centers.
And so they've taken action.
They've got project safe delivery.
They've deployed over 20, 000hard blue collection boxes.
They're deploying 28, 000 electroniclocking mechanisms, getting rid of
those arrow keys, but there's 140,000 blue boxes across the country.

(09:13):
So it's going to take some time.
There's more efforts underway.
So in this episode, I want toinvite a special guest from the
U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
ABA has a formal partnership with USPIS.
We publish multiple infographics educatingpeople on how to protect themselves
from check fraud and from mail theft.
And you can find these infographics andother resources at aba.com/checkfraud.

(09:37):
I want to welcome Caitlin Piasecki fromthe U. S. Postal Inspection Service here.
Caitlin has been a great partner forus, is really knowledgeable, knows
all the stuff that's going on, reallyboots on the ground perspective.
So Caitlin, thank you somuch for being on here.
Why don't you, just introduceyourself and tell us a little bit
about yourself and your role at USPIS.

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Okay. (09:56):
undefined
Great.
Thanks, Paul.
My name, like you said,is Caitlin Piasecki.
I'm the mail theft program manager here.
I'm one of two of the programmanagers for the Inspection Service.
So we cover kind of the nation,on all things mail theft.
So programs like how to develop contentfor the field, how to help them with
investigations and then kind of liaisonwith all the different groups like,

(10:17):
you know, congressional affairs.
So kind of, we have a large purview andour goal is to really help the field
have the tools and resources to do theirjob while also identifying trends, and
patterns and, you know, educating thepublic and private sector that way.

Paul Benda, ABA (10:33):
So the reason we're talking to you today is we have
really an epidemic of check fraud.
It doubled in the past couple of years.
It appears that it's doubling again.
I mean, we're now approachingprobably more than a billion
dollars in check fraud every year,at least that's being reported.
And we think a lot of this ishappening, or at least starting
maybe potentially with mail theft.
So, so what's going on withchecks and the mail these days?

(10:54):
What are you seeing Caitlin?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Well, I think the biggest thing that (10:55):
undefined
I want to highlight is the transitionto the cyber component related
to mail theft related check fraud.
Essentially, you know, the internethas made everything easier,
recruiting, you know, how to teachpeople how to steal cars, how to
access people's accounts, I think.
So, we've just seen kind of atutorial, so to speak, on like

(11:18):
encrypted communication platformswhere they're teaching people, you
know, how to target the mail, how to,you know, recruit employees at the
Postal Service, employees at banks.
And so we've just seen a hugeinflux in the complex nature these
investigations have taken now, wherepreviously maybe it was, you know, a
localized group in a localized area.

(11:39):
Now it's exploded where, you know,an organization in New Jersey.
could have access to a crewoperating in LA, for example.
So kind of a cross country scope,which makes it very difficult for us
as law enforcement to figure out, youknow, where, if the mail was involved,
where and how, because the mailtouches so many places as it moves.
But then also, you know,jurisdictionally, the best venue.

(12:02):
Locally, same thing.
If, you know, you're a victim of mailtheft and you report it to your local
police, you know, if the deposit happenedthere or in a different state, you know,
jurisdictionally, things get really messy.
And I think the appetite forprosecution on these cases, you
know, really depends on dollaramount for us at a federal level.
So really, it's likedeath by 1000 paper cuts.

(12:23):
And so how can we build a great casewhen it's organized chaos, for lack
of a better word, really, because, youknow, we have different groups operating
collectively some days and other days, youknow, they kind of go out on their own.
So it's really how do you prove aconspiracy some of the time is very
difficult and then how you builda great case for prosecution at

(12:44):
whatever level it decides to stay.
So I think mail theft has justbecome a place where people, the
mail has become a place where peoplethink they can get checks, but it's
no different than recruiting anemployee at a bank or a check casher.
I think it's just the internet knowledgeof, you know, the mail is there.
It's a good place to start.

(13:05):
So we've, you know, been reallyworking to harden our targets,
work to collaborate, to educateour workforce, and then obviously,
put people in jail for committingmail theft and really the deeper.
The harder crime really, whichis bank fraud and wire fraud
and those like financial cases.
And I think just that appetitecollectively across the country

(13:26):
right now for white collarcases is just maybe not as,
I don't know the right word, you know,I think that increasing the, interest
prosecutorially for these cases and, andkind of working, we have been working with
the U.S. Attorney's office to do that, toget more interest in getting kind of these

(13:48):
maybe traditionally viewed as, you know,soft crimes turned to, to really what
they are, which is a facilitation of manymore other crimes, more violent as well.
Hey everyone, Evan here.
I'm gonna break into the conversationfor a moment to bring you a. Message
from our podcast sponsor for the month.
nCino Disconnected systems, manualprocesses, and inefficient operations.

(14:12):
Slow down financial institutions.
nCino simplifies these challengesby consolidating workflows,
enhancing decision making.
With AI and improving customerexperiences, you can join over 1,800
global institutions transforming theiroperations with nCino's platform.
Together we're empowering anew financial era in finance.
Together.
They're empowering a newera in financial services.

(14:35):
You can learn more about how nCinohelps you, helps banks achieve
their goals [e-mail].
That's NCIN o.com.
And thanks to nCino forsponsoring this episode.
I'm gonna hand the commicrophone back to Paul now.

Paul Benda, ABA (14:55):
Right.
So there's a lot to unpack there.
I mean, so what I'm hearing fromyou is, you know, mail theft might
be the entry point to get thosechecks, whether they're stealing from
the blue boxes or the post office.
They then put them on the internet andthen it spreads across the country.
You've got really complexcases that are out there.
So we're not dealing with CatchMe If You Can anymore, right?
We're not dealing, you know, with aLeonardo DiCaprio movie where the guy was

(15:16):
just kiting checks or altering checks.
They might be out there, but,but that's not, that's not
driving a lot of this fraud.
Is that right?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Correct. (15:23):
undefined
I think at this point, theorganizations have become online.
So really the it's borderless essentiallyand jurisdictionally challenging and
very organized in a way that I don'tthink people realize just like, you
know, recruiting the young people onthe internet to give up their accounts,
you know, collaborating on encryptedcommunications, believing they're free

(15:47):
from law enforcement purview, you know,and I think that really facilitates kind
of like the culture of, you know, sharingin covert groups, what and how to, you
know, defeat us as law enforcement.
So I think we have to find a balance oflike, educating the public while also
protecting our trade craft so that youknow, we're not teaching the bad guys

(16:09):
essentially how we catch them eitherbecause they do learn as we learn.
And as we charge and arrest them,they read our affidavits and figure
out how to do it better next time.
So I think it's just finding that balancelike this is complicated organized crews.
It's no longer just aone guy in his basement.
It's many guys, you know, doing manydifferent things, including, you know,
sim swaps and that kind of stuff to targetsomebody's high value account, get a fake

(16:33):
I. D. You know, so the mail is a partof a much bigger scheme, I would say.
And I think sometimes we justget the ... because we're the
transport of the value item.
I think we get all of the maybescrutiny when really realizing how
much more complex it is than just.
You know, a piece of a checkin an envelope in the mail, so.

Paul Benda, ABA (16:55):
Yeah, and I, you know, I think you're raising a really good point.
When people hear U.S. PostalInspection Service, they just
focus on the paper products, right?
They don't, they don't realizethat you guys are tracking these
things on Telegram, that you'retrying to build these conspiracies.
And I think people need to rememberit's a, you know, a billion dollar
criminal enterprise that these, youknow, they have research analysts
going through reading affidavits totry and figure out how they can better

(17:17):
improve their criminal capabilities.
And so it's a lot different thanmaybe what's been done in the
past, but, you know, I know you getto see a lot of different cases.
Do you have anything that's,you know, that's that you think
would be interesting to share?
What are, what are some of the interestingtrends or, or things that you're seeing
out there, that maybe surprises youor surprise some of our listeners?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: I think the thing I find most interesting (17:37):
undefined
is the level of scamming going on withinthe, encrypted communication platforms
like Telegram, where we call them rippers.
Essentially, rippers are peoplewho are targeting the scammers and
they say they have a check, butthey don't actually have the check.
They're just ripping off somebody'spost that is the real poster.

(17:59):
So I think, people,

Paul Benda, ABA (18:02):
Scammers are, are being scammed themselves, right?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: The irony of that, yes. (18:05):
undefined
So we call the rippers the ones whoscam the scammers and then the scammers
are the ones selling the checks tothe general public or those in their,
you know, networks, not really thepublic per se, but essentially what
I find most ironic is the complicatednature of these investigations where,
you know, we get people who arelike, Well, it's on the internet.

(18:27):
Like, why can't you just, you know,arrest that person or take it down?
But it's not that simple, youknow It's like proving: A, that it
was an instrument stolen from themail is step one for us, right?
Because they do have accessto checks in other ways.
We aren't the only waythat people get checks.
But then 2, like who isthe one posting that check.
Is it the real poster or is thisthe hundredth time it's been posted

(18:48):
by seven different Ripper channelsand then, you know, doing your due
diligence to figure out who wasbehind the screen, just like any other
type of cyber enabled investigation.
It's really finding outwho and what is happening.
It's, it's much more complicated thanjust like this image is, you know,
associated to this person or channel.
So I think, to me, that's probably themost interesting thing that I think is

(19:11):
misunderstood in the, you know, generalpublic, just how messy it is when you
start getting into these chats, channels,supergroups, that kind of thing.
It's, you know, 100,000 users.
And then some of the people who've becomefamous, like, because of their, you
know, raps to commit things like PunchMade Def, for example, is one where he's
like outlining how to commit wire fraudin a rap song, so really just kind of,

(19:37):
there's just so many people in the arenanow, whether, and there's some who are
really good and then some who like readit off a different channel and think
they could do it, you know, and it'svery much like a upward promotion, so
if we don't get them at the first levelwhere they are the collusive account
holder, some of them then move up.
And, you know, they start collectingcards and then they move up and
they start, you know, finding theperson to cook the checks for them

(19:58):
and then they start a channel.
So it's really kind of like combocombination of all these different factors
coming together to make the perfect storm.
So I think at every level we have to beprepared, you know, to really enforce.
You know, even, even at the lowestlevel with the banks, those money
mule interviews, that kind of stuff,because those are the people who
eventually start realizing I justmade $10,000 committing check fraud.

(20:21):
And then, you know, the more peopleget away with it, it becomes a
trend because, you know, you tellyour friend who tells his friend.
And so I think it's kind of likestymieing it at the beginning is really
a huge part of our success at thetop, you know, because that's who we
want to go after as federal agents.
We have to go after theones operating the channels.
You know, not necessarily the guyat the bottom cashing the checks,
although not limiting those out,right, especially if they're involved

(20:43):
in a sensitive position or they'rea postal employee, a bank employee.
Obviously, we take those crimesvery seriously when the abuse
of power is involved, for sure.

Paul Benda, ABA (20:53):
Yeah, so it's like it's a whole culture.
I mean, it's fascinating that thereare rap songs about, you know,
check fraud that are out there.
And it's introducing newplayers into the space.
So, you know, you guys havebeen a great partner, for ABA.
Can you tell me a little bit about someof the work you guys have in the space
combating, check fraud and mail theft?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Yeah, for sure. (21:12):
undefined
I think the first thing I want tohighlight is our partnership with
FinCEN and our routine targetingof the mail theft tag SARs.
So those that have the FIN-2023-mailtheft , we are actively pulling those
SARs, reviewing them, analyzing,seeing for trends, patterns, hot spots.
We're also pulling SARs if they have thet. me link or anything kind of pointing us

(21:36):
in a direction of an online threat actor.
And we are also, product safedelivery, which was deployed back
in May of 2023, which was a directresponse to crimes against postal
employees in the mail stream.
I know we didn't touch uponit, yet, but you know, a lot of
carriers previously were beingrobbed for their, you know, postal

(21:57):
keys, to facilitate the mail theft.
And, you know, the violenceagainst carriers was a huge issue.
The numbers are down, which is anindication that Project Safe Delivery
is working in the sense of at leastviolence against carriers has decreased,
but this initiative is a jointinitiative with us in the Postal Service.
Essentially, Project Safe Delivery is totarget, protect postal employees in the

(22:18):
mail stream as one, you know, component,prevent criminal activity through
education and awareness is the next.
And then lastly, enforce the lawsthat protect our nation's mail stream.
And I know you mentioned our partnership.
That is one of our most valuedcomponents with prevention.
So partnering with ABA toreally educate the public.
I know we have a lotof great infographics.
But you know, how to keep your check safe.

(22:40):
How to protect yourselffrom these crimes.
I think, you know, we have bulletinsfor the general public, the
bankers, and then for businesses.
So I think a lot of differenteducational pieces from our lens as
well as yours is huge, protecting.
I think we've deployed high security boxesand problem areas across the country.

(23:01):
You know, we're constantly updatingour technology, but people have to keep
in mind it is a huge organization withlots of collection boxes everywhere.
So it's no small feat to, youknow, replace, you know, locks and
keys and, update the technology.
So, you know, the protect component,we are rolling out, you know, data
based, and then the prevention.

(23:23):
Partnerships like this are huge for usto get out our education of the public
and others, and especially the financialinstitutions, which are our number
one partner in combating this crime.
Certainly, we're also enforcing the laws.
We have partnerships with,you know, TIGDA, FBI.
We have a NCFTA check fraud workinggroup where we're really focusing in

(23:44):
on the cyber component of check fraudwith, you know, six federal agencies
and then 28, you know, private sectoragency, partnerships that are really
helping drive, you know, that, onlinecomponent, we've presented with the
executive office for U. S. Attorneys.
So we're really kind of trying to educatethem to the importance of taking these

(24:04):
cases federally because of, you know,the, the violent aspect, the crews,
the organizations, like this, isn'tjust a one off guy, you know, who's,
you know, fishing out of a box anymore.
Unfortunately, it's just muchmore, organized than that.
And so we're really working hard.
We've updated our reward program.
So essentially there's up to$150,000 reward for those who

(24:26):
provide ... Robbery of a carrier.
So a lot of ways that we're tryingto encourage participation from the
public, while also deterring thecrimes, arresting those responsible.
So we're really putting a lotin our, Project Safe Delivery,
which, I'll share the link withyou as well for the general public.
They can access updates.
They're done quarterly.

(24:48):
But yeah.
For fiscal year '24, the number of postalrelated robberies decreased 27% compared
to previous years, and the number ofarrests for postal related robberies in
fiscal year, versus previous are up 33%.
So we definitely arefocused on the right things.
I think the biggest thing is having thepartnership with the banks to get us
timely information and good documentation.

(25:10):
So good SAR filingsversus defensive ones.
You know, if they have the same phonenumber calling in the same IP, that kind
of stuff, we ask, like, build a goodSAR for us so that we can, you know,
cut off the head of the snake versuskind of chasing the tail, so to speak.

Paul Benda, ABA (25:26):
That's great.
Those numbers.
That's, that's a big improvement.
So exciting to see you guys makingprogress in that, but let's take it down.
Let's take it down a notch.
Let's take it to, you know,people's street corner.
So, you know, we hear, you know, wehear from as a banker, about people
saying, Oh, my checks are being, I evensee this on my Next Door site, which is,
you know, the local neighborhood site:
Oh, they're stealing checksout of that post office.

(25:47):
Oh, they're stealing checks out of thatblue box, you know, that collection box.
So if someone thinks that'shappening, what should they do?

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Well, I think certainly report it to us (25:54):
undefined
via USPIS.gov/report, and we also have a 1800 number I can share with you for that.
So certainly report it to us,also your local police department.
We partner a lot with local andstate, law enforcement agencies,
but so, it's not just us.
So if you think a crime's happeningin your area, please make sure you

(26:15):
report it to your local police.
I think some of the simple thingsis, you know, pick your mail up
upon delivery, you know, if you are,you know, going out of town, have a
hold on your mail 'til you return.
If you are using a collectionbox, we say, make sure it's
before the last pickup of the day.
So right on the box, it'll tell you,you know, 4 p. m. is the last pickup.

(26:35):
Don't leave your mail essentiallyovernight in a collection box.
If you can avoid it.
You know, same thing on the weekends,like pretty much minimize your
window of opportunity, so to speak.
So walking in the post office,if that's feasible for you.
And again, if you're seeing,you know, patterns with that,
we partner with the OIG.
So essentially we investigate externaltheft, they investigate internal theft.

(26:58):
So if when in doubt, you canalso report it to the USPS OIG.
But again, we work verycollaboratively with them.
So for the most part, we'rekind of in tune with different
investigations in different areas.
But, you know, just keep in mind,the more information you provide us,
the more actionable complaints can be.

(27:18):
So it's not necessarily helpful.
If someone just sends a complaintwith no information, like, you
know, someone stole my mail.
Well when, where, who, how, you know,like those kind of factors really help
us because the mail, right, it goesinto a collection box or into a Post
Office, but then it travels many placesbefore it gets to its destination.
So the more detailed, people can bewhen they provide us with information,

(27:39):
the better for our investigativecapabilities, especially if they've
taking a loss or, you know, the bank justgetting that reporting immediately to
us and to their financial institutionsso that they can get the money back
and start that recovery process, whichI know you guys have a great system
kind of built with ABA for that.
So I think that should hopefully help aswell, get the communication between the

(27:59):
banks, you know, streamlined in that way.
For sure.

Paul Benda, ABA (28:04):
Those are some really good tips.
I mean, I think that's, you know,that's a good point of knowing when that
collection pickup is and not lettingthat mail sit overnight is really good.
And the one I always tell people is, forGod's sakes, don't put mail up in your
driveway with the steal me flag up ifyou're going to put a check in there.
That is not a safe place to put yourmail because they drive around and
pick that right out of the mailbox.

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Right. (28:24):
undefined
The best is bringing it inside.
But again, like, especiallyanytime we recommend documenting
that problem as much.

Paul Benda, ABA (28:34):
Yeah.
The more information, the better.
Exactly.
Well, Caitlin, I reallyappreciate your time today.
You guys, like I said, you guys havebeen a great partner with us and
thank you so much for, tellingus some good tips and procedures
and what's going on with mail left.

Caitlin Piasecki, United States Postal Inspection Service: Cool. (28:47):
undefined
Yeah.
Thanks for your time.
Look forward to continuingour partnership in the future.
So thanks Paul.

Paul Benda, ABA (28:51):
As you can tell from my conversation with Caitlin,
check fraud, like all the other typesof scams and fraud we're seeing out
there, is now on an industrial scale.
Complex networks and wholeecosystems that are supporting it.
Remember, this is part oneof our check fraud series.
In our next episode, we're going togo into some more detail on how these
checks are being altered, deposited,and counterfeited, what the check

(29:11):
fraud claims process looks like, andwhat are some tips bankers can use to
protect both their customers and theirbanks from these fraudulent checks.
Lastly, we'll go through the resourcesthat ABA has, including the Fraud
Contact Directory, our Check FraudToolkit and Frontline Training, and
our product assessment of mitigationcapabilities that you should
consider deploying at your bank.
If you can't wait 'til then,remember, go to aba.com/checkfraud,

(29:34):
and you can find those items there.

Evan Sparks (29:41):
Well, thank you everyone for listening.
Thanks so much to Paul and Caitlinfor allowing me to share this
conversation with our broader audience.
Again, if you wanna find more about theABA Fraudcast and all the things we're
doing on fraud, visit aba.com/fraud.
Plenty of information there and youcan subscribe directly to the fraud
and get it directly onto your devices.
Thanks again to nCino forsponsoring this episode.
We'll be back with you again very soon.