June 18, 2025 • 12 mins
Amid tariff-related volatility, how are small and midsize businesses and the banks that serve them faring? On the latest episode of the ABA Banking Journal Podcast — presented by Intrafi’s Banking with Interest podcast — John Buran, the president and CEO of Queens-based Flushing Financial discusses how tariff and trade policy-related volatility has compounded commercial client uncertainty based on interest rates over recent months and why uncertainty has slowed loan growth and investment.
However, Buran also notes that lending has improved in the first quarter of 2025 compared to the same period in 2024, “possibly associated with the Fed keeping rates stable since the middle of the middle of last year. So I think that has helped somewhat. Banks are staying very close to their customers . . . so that they can come out the on other side in a favorable position.”
Buran also discusses opportunities for community banks to gain market share in the New York City metro area real estate market and the potential for regulatory change under newly confirmed Fed Vice Chair for Supervision Michelle Bowman.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
despite the consternationsurrounding surrounding tariffs,
things feel at least at this pointin time to be relatively stable.
Certainly the New York marketis still looking is still
looking pretty good for us.
And the commercial real estate spaceas, as you know, we see some potential
opportunities in things move on.
From the American Bankers , this isthe A BA Banking Journal podcast.
(00:24):
Welcome back.
Today's episode is presented by theIntrafi Banking with Interest Podcast,
and i'm here today with John Buran.
John is president and CEO of FlushingFinancial in Queens, New York.
And it's a $9 billion bank holdingcompany, parent of Flushing
Bank, and I'm really delightedto have John on the show today.
So welcome to the podcast, John.
Thank you, Evan.
(00:44):
Good to be here.
I'd love it if before we get into someof the issues we're gonna dig into
today, if you could tell me a littlebit more about your background in
banking and and about Flushing Bank.
Sure.
So I started my career in banking in19 77 after completing graduate school
and got into their training program.
Spent 17 years there.
(01:05):
Went to a couple of other, larger,larger banks Nat West, Fleet Bank and
then in 2000 2001 ended up in flushingFinancial, where I was recruited
as the chief Operating Officer.
And after a few years as Chief OperatingOfficer, I was elected president and and
(01:25):
CEO and I've been in that job since 2005.
Right.
And, and, and tell us a littlemore about Flushing, flushing
Financial and your subsidiary.
What kind of business lines are you in?
Where does your marketfootprint extend to?
Give us the lay of the land on the bank.
Sure.
As you noted, we're a $9 billion bank.
We operate out of the NewYork metropolitan area.
Most of our lending and most ofour deposit gathering takes place
(01:47):
within the five boroughs of New York.
Also in Nassau Suffolk County.
And a little bit into close inNew Jersey, close in Connecticut.
So we kind of think of us as the,the kind of the 10 county, 10 county
areas surrounding surrounding NewYork is where we, we do our business.
Predominantly though in the in theboroughs and and also in on Long Island.
(02:08):
Okay.
Now, and, and I know you know, y'allhave a focus on small business lending.
And one of the things that's obviouslytop of mind for small businesses
today is managing the volatilityrelated to trade policy and changes
in tariffs, managing supply chains.
And obviously banks are right thereif, if their if their customers
(02:31):
are having challenges the banksare trying to help solve those
challenges and trying to address that.
Can you talk a little bit about thescale about how trade policy affects
your client base at Flushing Financial?
So it, it is predominantly uncertaintyand you know, the regional banking
sector's been dealing with thecommercial customer uncertainty
for the past past couple of months.
(02:53):
It started somewhat with the, withthe rate increases and the increases
in longer term short-term andlong-term rates as a matter of fact.
And then on top of it, thetariffs have just added a degree
of a degree of uncertainty.
What do you expect businessesneed, that businesses need to
prepare for amid this uncertainty?
What are the key things that the kindof business clients you work with, need
(03:15):
to be prepared for in order to managethrough this time of uncertainty?
So I, I think it's a adegree of degree of caution.
We, you know, certainly we'renot seeing a good deal of of
investment taking taking place.
We are seeing minimalloan growth as a result.
I think everybody's trying tobe very, very conservative.
So we'll be watchful for any changes in inpricing with respect to our customers and,
(03:40):
and their, their ability to secure thegoods and services they need for resale.
We're clearly dealing with again,a, lack of of focus in terms of
investing, investing in the business.
People are staying on the sidelines.
They're not buying new plant.
Although some of the interest rate changesthat recently, recently happened are are.
(04:02):
Are motivating some of our customersto begin to look at the possibility of
buying their lease real estate plans.
And that, that represents justa trend that's just beginning
to beginning to come about.
But clearly the market and customershave been concerned about the
economic environment for some timeand have had a less aggressive
(04:24):
posture than than in the past.
How have you been seeing yourclient businesses respond in
terms of inventory management?
Are you seeing folks accelerate purchasesor are you seeing folks adjust their
supply chains to account for someof the changes that are out there?
Yes.
With without a doubt.
We did see increases in inventoryin order to get ahead of possible
(04:45):
possible changes in the withrespect, with respect to the tariffs.
And we're also seeing a, a concernover or let, let's say advanced
ordering associated with potentialsupply chain issues that may be you
know, that may be coming, comingabout as a result of tariffs.
And the other thing is that smallbusinesses are trying to find
(05:07):
let's say substitutions that where.
You know, one, one item mightbe a, a tariff item and or
potentially tariff item.
And another item may be a a,a more local, local item or,
or a lower, lower tariff item.
They'll go in that direction.
We're seeing that inthe construction space.
Yeah.
I wanna take a quick moment here tothank our sponsor for this episode.
(05:30):
So, today's episode is presented byIntrafi Banking with Interest Podcast, and
it is a podcast from Intrafi that featuresin-depth analysis and insight into the
policy changes reshaping the bankingindustry with insightful interviews and
previews of pending policy challenges.
The podcast is an essentiallisten for anyone connected to
the financial services industry.
Banking with Interest is hosted by RobBlackwell, a former, an award-winning
(05:52):
former journalist with more than twodecades of experience as an expert on
financial services policy, who is now.
Chief Content Officer and headof External Affairs at Intrafi.
You can find out more about thepodcast and listen to listen to current
and previous episodes@intrafi.com.
That's I-N-T-R-A-F i.com.
And thanks to the Banking with InterestPodcast for sponsoring this episode.
(06:13):
So back to the conversationwith John Buran.
It is you know, fascinating to see thissome of not only how businesses are
responding to the some of the challengesthat they are facing with their supply
chains, but also how banks are responding.
And I'm curious, , whatare you recommending?
What are you seeing in terms of the needfor risk mitigation for banks that are
(06:35):
that whose clients may be affected bysome of this tariff induced volatility?
Well, I think it's the same.
It, it's a parallel to what thewhat our businesses are are seeing.
We are we're being very cautiousin terms of in terms of lending.
Certainly we have not seen as a resultof what's happened with interest
rates over the past couple of years.
We had not seen anything nearthe robust lending that we that
(06:59):
we had seen in prior years.
Although I do have to say thatthe first quarter of this year.
Lending improved from thefirst quarter of last year.
So there's a little bit of economicactivity that maybe is starting to
come about and possibly associatedwith the Fed keeping rates stable since
the middle of the middle of last year.
So I think that that hasthat has helped somewhat.
(07:20):
And, and I think that, banks are stayingvery close to their customers and, you
know, situations reacting to both positiveand negative situations that come about
to to work with customers so that theycan come out the other side in in a in
a favorable position as we go through.
You know, difficulties in thein the economic environment.
(07:41):
I have to say though, locally the localeconomy still appears to be in pretty good
shape with no real significant areas ofof weakness other than the office market.
You know, that continuesto be problematic.
But you know, nothing, youknow, nothing new there.
The multifamily market is quite stable.
No no real major issues onthe community banking side.
(08:02):
And we're really not seeingsignificant tariff impact on
the in the local market yet.
I'm curious about how businesses arethinking ahead, and not just in terms
of how they're adjusting their supplychains, not just in terms of how they're,
you know, making investment decisions,but the practice of precautionary loans.
What are you seeing in that marketplace?
(08:24):
And and is that a, is that a soundstrategy for, for the businesses
that are affected by this volatility?
So I, you know, in, in terms of in,in terms of going out there and and
securing additional debt, it's neverreally a great idea unless you have
a, unless you have a use for it.
Yeah.
And you know, even, even with respectto the lines of credit, we're not seeing
people draw down their lines of creditand increasing the the leverage, the
(08:48):
the leverage on their own business.
You don't know where this is goingto end and you, you, you really want
to keep a you know, keep stable.
I know some businesses have lookedto to pre borrow, so to speak, or
increase lines or things of that nature.
But we recommend being beingsomewhat cautious in, in an
environment like this where youdon't want to over-leverage yourself.
(09:11):
You, you want to be very cautiouswith your hiring decisions.
Very cautious with yourinvestment decisions.
And wait it out, you know, clearly thisthis situation with the tariffs has
been going on for some period of time.
It certainly looked moredire a couple of months ago.
It looks like it's proceedingto a more reasonable you know,
more reasonable inclusion.
(09:33):
Of course now we, you know, wehave controversies taking place
in the, in the Middle East.
I think this is a time for the prudentbusinesses are not over leveraging.
They're taking a very cautiousapproach to hiring, cautious
approach to in, to investing.
And this is this, you know,we're clearly supportive of that.
Yeah.
You know, we've talked a lot about kind ofthe, the cautious response to volatility.
(09:54):
I'm curious at Flushing Financial,flushing Bank, where are you seeing,
where are you seeing the most opportunityand you know, areas for growth
right now in your, in your business?
So oddly enough, there's been a quitea pull, quite a pullback in with some
of the large competitors in New Yorkaway from commercial real estate.
And that has created opportunitiesfor community banks like
(10:15):
flushing to to gain market share.
You know, in addition the interest ratevolatility and the regulatory regulatory
changes will continue to provide, ongoingopportunities for community banks.
And then I, I think a very importantthing that, that is probably a
little bit longer term, but theappointment of the federal Reserve,
(10:37):
federal Reserve head of supervision.
Michelle Bowman, obviously very clearlya pro community bank individual, I
think could could mean very, veryimportant changes in the regulatory
environment for community banks.
Yeah, we, we absolutely agree at ABAand our Daily Newsbytes email has
been covering her, her her agendaand the, the things she's outlined.
(10:59):
She spoke at our conference for communitybankers back in February and outlined her
vision for financial services supervision
.It'll be interesting to see how she reshapes the, the supervisory function
at the Fed over the next over the, overthe coming coming months incorporating
both that community bank perspectiveand that supervisory experience and her
experience of being one of the longesttenured members of the Fed Board.
(11:21):
Yes, yes, yes.
I, I think we're, we're, we'rereally anticipating some positive
results here in community banking..
All right.
Well, John, anything else, anythingelse you'd like to share with,
with our audience that I haven't,that I haven't touched on yet?
Yeah, look, I, I think the despite theconsternation surrounding surrounding
tariffs, things feel at least at thispoint in time to be relatively stable.
(11:42):
Certainly the New York marketis still looking is still
looking pretty good for us.
And you know, we see some potentialopportunities in the commercial real
estate space as, as things move on.
Wonderful.
John, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
For our listeners, you can findthis in previous episodes at
aba.com/banking journal podcast.
You can also find us on any of yourfavorite podcast apps or platforms.
(12:05):
Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks to Intrafi Banking with Interestpodcast for sponsoring this episode, and
we'll be back with you again very soon.
despite the consternationsurrounding surrounding tariffs,
things feel at least at this pointin time to be relatively stable.
Certainly the New York marketis still looking is still
looking pretty good for us.
And the commercial real estate spaceas, as you know, we see some potential
opportunities in things move on.
From the American Bankers , this isthe A BA Banking Journal podcast.
(00:24):
Welcome back.
Today's episode is presented by theIntrafi Banking with Interest Podcast,
and i'm here today with John Buran.
John is president and CEO of FlushingFinancial in Queens, New York.
And it's a $9 billion bank holdingcompany, parent of Flushing
Bank, and I'm really delightedto have John on the show today.
So welcome to the podcast, John.
Thank you, Evan.
(00:44):
Good to be here.
I'd love it if before we get into someof the issues we're gonna dig into
today, if you could tell me a littlebit more about your background in
banking and and about Flushing Bank.
Sure.
So I started my career in banking in19 77 after completing graduate school
and got into their training program.
Spent 17 years there.
(01:05):
Went to a couple of other, larger,larger banks Nat West, Fleet Bank and
then in 2000 2001 ended up in flushingFinancial, where I was recruited
as the chief Operating Officer.
And after a few years as Chief OperatingOfficer, I was elected president and and
(01:25):
CEO and I've been in that job since 2005.
Right.
And, and, and tell us a littlemore about Flushing, flushing
Financial and your subsidiary.
What kind of business lines are you in?
Where does your marketfootprint extend to?
Give us the lay of the land on the bank.
Sure.
As you noted, we're a $9 billion bank.
We operate out of the NewYork metropolitan area.
Most of our lending and most ofour deposit gathering takes place
(01:47):
within the five boroughs of New York.
Also in Nassau Suffolk County.
And a little bit into close inNew Jersey, close in Connecticut.
So we kind of think of us as the,the kind of the 10 county, 10 county
areas surrounding surrounding NewYork is where we, we do our business.
Predominantly though in the in theboroughs and and also in on Long Island.
(02:08):
Okay.
Now, and, and I know you know, y'allhave a focus on small business lending.
And one of the things that's obviouslytop of mind for small businesses
today is managing the volatilityrelated to trade policy and changes
in tariffs, managing supply chains.
And obviously banks are right thereif, if their if their customers
(02:31):
are having challenges the banksare trying to help solve those
challenges and trying to address that.
Can you talk a little bit about thescale about how trade policy affects
your client base at Flushing Financial?
So it, it is predominantly uncertaintyand you know, the regional banking
sector's been dealing with thecommercial customer uncertainty
for the past past couple of months.
(02:53):
It started somewhat with the, withthe rate increases and the increases
in longer term short-term andlong-term rates as a matter of fact.
And then on top of it, thetariffs have just added a degree
of a degree of uncertainty.
What do you expect businessesneed, that businesses need to
prepare for amid this uncertainty?
What are the key things that the kindof business clients you work with, need
(03:15):
to be prepared for in order to managethrough this time of uncertainty?
So I, I think it's a adegree of degree of caution.
We, you know, certainly we'renot seeing a good deal of of
investment taking taking place.
We are seeing minimalloan growth as a result.
I think everybody's trying tobe very, very conservative.
So we'll be watchful for any changes in inpricing with respect to our customers and,
(03:40):
and their, their ability to secure thegoods and services they need for resale.
We're clearly dealing with again,a, lack of of focus in terms of
investing, investing in the business.
People are staying on the sidelines.
They're not buying new plant.
Although some of the interest rate changesthat recently, recently happened are are.
(04:02):
Are motivating some of our customersto begin to look at the possibility of
buying their lease real estate plans.
And that, that represents justa trend that's just beginning
to beginning to come about.
But clearly the market and customershave been concerned about the
economic environment for some timeand have had a less aggressive
(04:24):
posture than than in the past.
How have you been seeing yourclient businesses respond in
terms of inventory management?
Are you seeing folks accelerate purchasesor are you seeing folks adjust their
supply chains to account for someof the changes that are out there?
Yes.
With without a doubt.
We did see increases in inventoryin order to get ahead of possible
(04:45):
possible changes in the withrespect, with respect to the tariffs.
And we're also seeing a, a concernover or let, let's say advanced
ordering associated with potentialsupply chain issues that may be you
know, that may be coming, comingabout as a result of tariffs.
And the other thing is that smallbusinesses are trying to find
(05:07):
let's say substitutions that where.
You know, one, one item mightbe a, a tariff item and or
potentially tariff item.
And another item may be a a,a more local, local item or,
or a lower, lower tariff item.
They'll go in that direction.
We're seeing that inthe construction space.
Yeah.
I wanna take a quick moment here tothank our sponsor for this episode.
(05:30):
So, today's episode is presented byIntrafi Banking with Interest Podcast, and
it is a podcast from Intrafi that featuresin-depth analysis and insight into the
policy changes reshaping the bankingindustry with insightful interviews and
previews of pending policy challenges.
The podcast is an essentiallisten for anyone connected to
the financial services industry.
Banking with Interest is hosted by RobBlackwell, a former, an award-winning
(05:52):
former journalist with more than twodecades of experience as an expert on
financial services policy, who is now.
Chief Content Officer and headof External Affairs at Intrafi.
You can find out more about thepodcast and listen to listen to current
and previous episodes@intrafi.com.
That's I-N-T-R-A-F i.com.
And thanks to the Banking with InterestPodcast for sponsoring this episode.
(06:13):
So back to the conversationwith John Buran.
It is you know, fascinating to see thissome of not only how businesses are
responding to the some of the challengesthat they are facing with their supply
chains, but also how banks are responding.
And I'm curious, , whatare you recommending?
What are you seeing in terms of the needfor risk mitigation for banks that are
(06:35):
that whose clients may be affected bysome of this tariff induced volatility?
Well, I think it's the same.
It, it's a parallel to what thewhat our businesses are are seeing.
We are we're being very cautiousin terms of in terms of lending.
Certainly we have not seen as a resultof what's happened with interest
rates over the past couple of years.
We had not seen anything nearthe robust lending that we that
(06:59):
we had seen in prior years.
Although I do have to say thatthe first quarter of this year.
Lending improved from thefirst quarter of last year.
So there's a little bit of economicactivity that maybe is starting to
come about and possibly associatedwith the Fed keeping rates stable since
the middle of the middle of last year.
So I think that that hasthat has helped somewhat.
(07:20):
And, and I think that, banks are stayingvery close to their customers and, you
know, situations reacting to both positiveand negative situations that come about
to to work with customers so that theycan come out the other side in in a in
a favorable position as we go through.
You know, difficulties in thein the economic environment.
(07:41):
I have to say though, locally the localeconomy still appears to be in pretty good
shape with no real significant areas ofof weakness other than the office market.
You know, that continuesto be problematic.
But you know, nothing, youknow, nothing new there.
The multifamily market is quite stable.
No no real major issues onthe community banking side.
(08:02):
And we're really not seeingsignificant tariff impact on
the in the local market yet.
I'm curious about how businesses arethinking ahead, and not just in terms
of how they're adjusting their supplychains, not just in terms of how they're,
you know, making investment decisions,but the practice of precautionary loans.
What are you seeing in that marketplace?
(08:24):
And and is that a, is that a soundstrategy for, for the businesses
that are affected by this volatility?
So I, you know, in, in terms of in,in terms of going out there and and
securing additional debt, it's neverreally a great idea unless you have
a, unless you have a use for it.
Yeah.
And you know, even, even with respectto the lines of credit, we're not seeing
people draw down their lines of creditand increasing the the leverage, the
(08:48):
the leverage on their own business.
You don't know where this is goingto end and you, you, you really want
to keep a you know, keep stable.
I know some businesses have lookedto to pre borrow, so to speak, or
increase lines or things of that nature.
But we recommend being beingsomewhat cautious in, in an
environment like this where youdon't want to over-leverage yourself.
(09:11):
You, you want to be very cautiouswith your hiring decisions.
Very cautious with yourinvestment decisions.
And wait it out, you know, clearly thisthis situation with the tariffs has
been going on for some period of time.
It certainly looked moredire a couple of months ago.
It looks like it's proceedingto a more reasonable you know,
more reasonable inclusion.
(09:33):
Of course now we, you know, wehave controversies taking place
in the, in the Middle East.
I think this is a time for the prudentbusinesses are not over leveraging.
They're taking a very cautiousapproach to hiring, cautious
approach to in, to investing.
And this is this, you know,we're clearly supportive of that.
Yeah.
You know, we've talked a lot about kind ofthe, the cautious response to volatility.
(09:54):
I'm curious at Flushing Financial,flushing Bank, where are you seeing,
where are you seeing the most opportunityand you know, areas for growth
right now in your, in your business?
So oddly enough, there's been a quitea pull, quite a pullback in with some
of the large competitors in New Yorkaway from commercial real estate.
And that has created opportunitiesfor community banks like
(10:15):
flushing to to gain market share.
You know, in addition the interest ratevolatility and the regulatory regulatory
changes will continue to provide, ongoingopportunities for community banks.
And then I, I think a very importantthing that, that is probably a
little bit longer term, but theappointment of the federal Reserve,
(10:37):
federal Reserve head of supervision.
Michelle Bowman, obviously very clearlya pro community bank individual, I
think could could mean very, veryimportant changes in the regulatory
environment for community banks.
Yeah, we, we absolutely agree at ABAand our Daily Newsbytes email has
been covering her, her her agendaand the, the things she's outlined.
(10:59):
She spoke at our conference for communitybankers back in February and outlined her
vision for financial services supervision
.It'll be interesting to see how she reshapes the, the supervisory function
at the Fed over the next over the, overthe coming coming months incorporating
both that community bank perspectiveand that supervisory experience and her
experience of being one of the longesttenured members of the Fed Board.
(11:21):
Yes, yes, yes.
I, I think we're, we're, we'rereally anticipating some positive
results here in community banking..
All right.
Well, John, anything else, anythingelse you'd like to share with,
with our audience that I haven't,that I haven't touched on yet?
Yeah, look, I, I think the despite theconsternation surrounding surrounding
tariffs, things feel at least at thispoint in time to be relatively stable.
(11:42):
Certainly the New York marketis still looking is still
looking pretty good for us.
And you know, we see some potentialopportunities in the commercial real
estate space as, as things move on.
Wonderful.
John, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
For our listeners, you can findthis in previous episodes at
aba.com/banking journal podcast.
You can also find us on any of yourfavorite podcast apps or platforms.
(12:05):
Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks to Intrafi Banking with Interestpodcast for sponsoring this episode, and
we'll be back with you again very soon.
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