June 5, 2025 • 9 mins
So-called “First Amendment auditors” have long filmed themselves trying to provoke police and other public officials into stopping them from recording in public settings. Now, some auditors are targeting banks, filming for hours outside bank branches and seeking to goad bank employees into calling law enforcement. The latest episode — presented by Intrafi’s Banking with Interest podcast — features tips from bankers and security professionals on how to handle a First Amendment auditor at a bank location while protecting bank employees and customers.
- Read more in the ABA Banking Journal.
- Access tips from ABA’s Bank Security Committee.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Evan Sparks (00:02):
you can find examples online of First Amendment audits that
target banks of all sizes from littlecommunity banks all the way up to the
largest nationwide financial institutions.
And this is a problem that may growsince auditors can often monetize
their videos with YouTube advertising.
The more confrontational thevideo, the more views it attracts.
(00:23):
From the American Bankers Association,this is the ABA Banking Journal podcast.
Welcome back.
I'm Evan Sparks.
Today's episode is presented by Intrafi,and this is a little bit of a different
episode because I don't have a guest.
Today I'm gonna be talking to youabout an article that I recently
reported for the ABA Banking Journal,and it's an article that doesn't
have a guest for a very good reason.
And then you'll, you'll understand as I asI talk a little bit more about this topic.
(00:47):
So to begin, I want youto imagine this scenario.
Someone arrives at your branchand begins walking up and down
on the sidewalk in front of it.
Doesn't come in the branch, but justwalks up and down in front of it.
He has his iPhone out and he is videorecording every customer, every employee,
every guest who comes in or out.
(01:08):
And then imagine that this,that this person stays there in
front of your brand for hours.
At a certain point, perhaps one of two ofyour bank employees will go out to talk
to 'em, ask some questions, and gently tryto get the individual to stop recording.
Then imagine that instead ofcomplying, this individual
responds with suspicious questions.
(01:28):
So, what kind of vault do you have?
What are the proceduresfor how you access it?
The the individual won't leave,and honestly, the suspicious
questions begin to trigger threatinstincts in your employees.
Police are called and thenthat interaction is filmed.
What's happening here is that the iPhonewielder is quite likely a self-proclaimed
(01:50):
First Amendment auditor, and the goal isto test the limits of the laws that permit
filming from public places like sidewalks.
For some auditors, the true goal isto goad the police into arresting
them, and thus to fail their audit.
This practice started several years ago,partly as an adjunct to the movement
(02:11):
to promote police accountability andfueled in over the last decade by the
ubiquity of smartphones and cheap data.
Auditors would film police arrestsor traffic stops, or perhaps enter
public, public facilities likepolice stations or post offices or
town halls, trying to capture publicofficials crossing the legal lines
as when they can, when individualscan and cannot record encounters.
(02:37):
You can, if you go on YouTube, you canfind thousands of videos of these First
Amendment auditors in public places tryingto goad police into cre, into arresting
them or creating some kind of a conflict.
But over the past several months, oneauditor has pivoted from targeting
public facilities to targeting banks,particularly in Missouri and Kansas.
(02:59):
He has tens of thousands of followerson YouTube where he posts edited
versions of his encounters thatget hundreds of thousands of views.
And in the article I wrote, I didn'tlink to the channel, and I don't, I'm
not gonna say the name of the channelhere because I don't wanna draw any
further attention to this auditor.
His videos are monetized by YouTubeand thus they generate income from
advertising every time they're viewed.
And I'm not gonna, so I'm not gonna I'mnot gonna throw any more income this way.
(03:22):
There are other auditors, videos ofbanks that have showed up as well.
The videos usually follow a scriptlike the one I outlined at the start.
Top of this episode, noticeable videorecording over a period of several
hours that triggers a bank employeeto come out and confront the auditor.
Usually the banker asks why theguy's filming and politely asks him
to stop filming, either for securitypurposes or for the comfort of clients.
(03:46):
The auditor asks provocative questions,designed to bait the bankers into
calling the police, or perhaps gettingmore confrontational themselves.
One banker who is recorded in thevideo asking the auditor to stop
filming and move along was identifiedby YouTube commenters, and he ended
up receiving voicemail death threats.
In fact, it's because of thethreats that bankers received that
(04:06):
I granted anonymity to everybody whoI spoke to for this conversation.
Spoke to for this article.
Another bank received so manythreatening phone calls after the
auditor posted the video that the branchhad to shut down its phone system.
This particular auditor also uses sexistslurs like Karen to describe the bank
employees who ask him to stop recording.
(04:27):
So I asked a bank a senior bankexecutive at one of the community banks
that was targeted by this individual.
You know, what the be what, what is thebest way to handle this kind of situation?
And he says, it runs againstall of our training, but the
best thing to do is ignore them.
One bank senior management remindedemployees that video recording from
streets or public sidewalks is legal.
(04:49):
These in, in a memo to employees acrosstheir branch network, they said These
people are hoping to provoke a reaction.
They are hoping that wewill engage with them.
They're looking for a fight.
They want us to call the police.
Let's not give them what they want.
To protect the privacy of employeesand customers, banks may choose to
close their blinds and ensure thatcommute computer monitors are not
(05:10):
visible from the street or sidewalk.
But the line in this case is literallybank property, bank owned parking lots,
drive-throughs, or interior of branches.
If an auditor trespasses, thebranch manager advises the
employees to state a simple messageasking the auditor to leave.
Then walk away andactivate the security plan.
The bankers also say to bemindful of wearing name tags
(05:32):
in the presence of the auditor.
So if for, if for example, an employeegoes out to ask an auditor to leave make
sure you're not wearing your name tagbecause the, that might reveal a full
name or other personal information thatcan be used to create a negative calling
campaign or email harassment from the,from, from people who watch the videos.
And as for those threatening phone calls,bankers should keep in mind that they
(05:53):
may be being recorded by the caller.
Employees are advised by the, bythe bank leadership simply to take a
caller's name and number and say they'llforward it to the appropriate party.
Don't get into a conversation about this.
Now I am gonna take a quick moment hereto thank our sponsor for this episode.
Today's episode is sponsored byBanking with Interest, a podcast from
Intrafi featuring in-depth analysisand insight into the policy changes
(06:16):
reshaping the banking industry withinsightful interviews and previews
of pending policy challenges.
The podcast is an essentiallisten for anyone connected to
the financial services industry.
There was a fantastic conversationrecently with Jill Castilla of
Citizens Bank of Edmond talkingabout financial inclusion, talking
about innovation, and talking aboutCitizens bank of Edmond's, new bank for
members of the military called Roger.
(06:37):
Great conversation with Jill, andit's hosted by Rob Blackwell, an
award-winning former journalist withmore than two decades of experience as
an expert on financial services policy,who is now Chief Content Officer and
head of External Affairs at Intrafi.
So you to listen to the podcast,go to Intrafi.com to learn more.
And thank you again to IntrafiBanking with Interest Podcast
(06:58):
for sponsoring this episode.
So back to the conversation or back tothe issue of First Amendment audits you
can find a lot more examples online ofFirst Amendment audits that target banks
of all sizes from little community banksall the way up to the largest nationwide
nationwide financial institutions.
(07:18):
And this is a problem that may growsince auditors can often monetize
their videos with YouTube advertising.
The more confrontational thevideo, the more views it attracts.
And that means more money For theauditors who are posting the video,
here's what one banker said whowas filmed by an auditor and then
threatened by members of the public.
"They want this to escalate, and youdon't know that we're not used to
(07:39):
people who want to escalate. They'rehere to antagonize." That's something
that's hard for, again, hard for bankerswith a customer orientation who just
want to be, have a conversation andtry to try to engage rationally with
somebody who's filming their branch.
But it's something that youneed to keep in mind if you
see this kind of thing come up.
The a BA Bank security committeehas actually published a series
(08:02):
of tips for dealing with firstAmendment auditing activity.
And that's available on ABAswebsite at aba.com/risk.
Go ahead and take a look.
It provides tips for if auditors areon public property, if auditors enter
a branch, if the situation escalatesto harassment and threats and engage
(08:22):
and, and includes several tips thathave come directly from bank security
professionals as well as from the banksthat have been affected by these these
challenges and ABAs risk managementpro professionals here on our staff.
So that's the rest of that.
That's the conversation today.
Just wanted to, you know, for, obviouslyI didn't want to put any anybody who's
already been victimized by, I didn'twanna put anybody who's already been
(08:45):
victimized by threatening phone calls,you know, on the air to say, you
know, tell us about your experience.
But I did wanna make sure thatbankers understand what's going
on out there-- this is the kind ofactivity that could come to your
branch, could come to your bank -- andmake sure that bankers experience
with these First Amendment audits iscommunicated to a broader audience of,
of financial industry professionals.
(09:06):
So thanks so much for listening.
Thanks to Intrafi's Banking with InterestPodcast for sponsoring this episode.
We'll be back with you again very soon.
you can find examples online of First Amendment audits that
target banks of all sizes from littlecommunity banks all the way up to the
largest nationwide financial institutions.
And this is a problem that may growsince auditors can often monetize
their videos with YouTube advertising.
The more confrontational thevideo, the more views it attracts.
(00:23):
From the American Bankers Association,this is the ABA Banking Journal podcast.
Welcome back.
I'm Evan Sparks.
Today's episode is presented by Intrafi,and this is a little bit of a different
episode because I don't have a guest.
Today I'm gonna be talking to youabout an article that I recently
reported for the ABA Banking Journal,and it's an article that doesn't
have a guest for a very good reason.
And then you'll, you'll understand as I asI talk a little bit more about this topic.
(00:47):
So to begin, I want youto imagine this scenario.
Someone arrives at your branchand begins walking up and down
on the sidewalk in front of it.
Doesn't come in the branch, but justwalks up and down in front of it.
He has his iPhone out and he is videorecording every customer, every employee,
every guest who comes in or out.
(01:08):
And then imagine that this,that this person stays there in
front of your brand for hours.
At a certain point, perhaps one of two ofyour bank employees will go out to talk
to 'em, ask some questions, and gently tryto get the individual to stop recording.
Then imagine that instead ofcomplying, this individual
responds with suspicious questions.
(01:28):
So, what kind of vault do you have?
What are the proceduresfor how you access it?
The the individual won't leave,and honestly, the suspicious
questions begin to trigger threatinstincts in your employees.
Police are called and thenthat interaction is filmed.
What's happening here is that the iPhonewielder is quite likely a self-proclaimed
(01:50):
First Amendment auditor, and the goal isto test the limits of the laws that permit
filming from public places like sidewalks.
For some auditors, the true goal isto goad the police into arresting
them, and thus to fail their audit.
This practice started several years ago,partly as an adjunct to the movement
(02:11):
to promote police accountability andfueled in over the last decade by the
ubiquity of smartphones and cheap data.
Auditors would film police arrestsor traffic stops, or perhaps enter
public, public facilities likepolice stations or post offices or
town halls, trying to capture publicofficials crossing the legal lines
as when they can, when individualscan and cannot record encounters.
(02:37):
You can, if you go on YouTube, you canfind thousands of videos of these First
Amendment auditors in public places tryingto goad police into cre, into arresting
them or creating some kind of a conflict.
But over the past several months, oneauditor has pivoted from targeting
public facilities to targeting banks,particularly in Missouri and Kansas.
(02:59):
He has tens of thousands of followerson YouTube where he posts edited
versions of his encounters thatget hundreds of thousands of views.
And in the article I wrote, I didn'tlink to the channel, and I don't, I'm
not gonna say the name of the channelhere because I don't wanna draw any
further attention to this auditor.
His videos are monetized by YouTubeand thus they generate income from
advertising every time they're viewed.
And I'm not gonna, so I'm not gonna I'mnot gonna throw any more income this way.
(03:22):
There are other auditors, videos ofbanks that have showed up as well.
The videos usually follow a scriptlike the one I outlined at the start.
Top of this episode, noticeable videorecording over a period of several
hours that triggers a bank employeeto come out and confront the auditor.
Usually the banker asks why theguy's filming and politely asks him
to stop filming, either for securitypurposes or for the comfort of clients.
(03:46):
The auditor asks provocative questions,designed to bait the bankers into
calling the police, or perhaps gettingmore confrontational themselves.
One banker who is recorded in thevideo asking the auditor to stop
filming and move along was identifiedby YouTube commenters, and he ended
up receiving voicemail death threats.
In fact, it's because of thethreats that bankers received that
(04:06):
I granted anonymity to everybody whoI spoke to for this conversation.
Spoke to for this article.
Another bank received so manythreatening phone calls after the
auditor posted the video that the branchhad to shut down its phone system.
This particular auditor also uses sexistslurs like Karen to describe the bank
employees who ask him to stop recording.
(04:27):
So I asked a bank a senior bankexecutive at one of the community banks
that was targeted by this individual.
You know, what the be what, what is thebest way to handle this kind of situation?
And he says, it runs againstall of our training, but the
best thing to do is ignore them.
One bank senior management remindedemployees that video recording from
streets or public sidewalks is legal.
(04:49):
These in, in a memo to employees acrosstheir branch network, they said These
people are hoping to provoke a reaction.
They are hoping that wewill engage with them.
They're looking for a fight.
They want us to call the police.
Let's not give them what they want.
To protect the privacy of employeesand customers, banks may choose to
close their blinds and ensure thatcommute computer monitors are not
(05:10):
visible from the street or sidewalk.
But the line in this case is literallybank property, bank owned parking lots,
drive-throughs, or interior of branches.
If an auditor trespasses, thebranch manager advises the
employees to state a simple messageasking the auditor to leave.
Then walk away andactivate the security plan.
The bankers also say to bemindful of wearing name tags
(05:32):
in the presence of the auditor.
So if for, if for example, an employeegoes out to ask an auditor to leave make
sure you're not wearing your name tagbecause the, that might reveal a full
name or other personal information thatcan be used to create a negative calling
campaign or email harassment from the,from, from people who watch the videos.
And as for those threatening phone calls,bankers should keep in mind that they
(05:53):
may be being recorded by the caller.
Employees are advised by the, bythe bank leadership simply to take a
caller's name and number and say they'llforward it to the appropriate party.
Don't get into a conversation about this.
Now I am gonna take a quick moment hereto thank our sponsor for this episode.
Today's episode is sponsored byBanking with Interest, a podcast from
Intrafi featuring in-depth analysisand insight into the policy changes
(06:16):
reshaping the banking industry withinsightful interviews and previews
of pending policy challenges.
The podcast is an essentiallisten for anyone connected to
the financial services industry.
There was a fantastic conversationrecently with Jill Castilla of
Citizens Bank of Edmond talkingabout financial inclusion, talking
about innovation, and talking aboutCitizens bank of Edmond's, new bank for
members of the military called Roger.
(06:37):
Great conversation with Jill, andit's hosted by Rob Blackwell, an
award-winning former journalist withmore than two decades of experience as
an expert on financial services policy,who is now Chief Content Officer and
head of External Affairs at Intrafi.
So you to listen to the podcast,go to Intrafi.com to learn more.
And thank you again to IntrafiBanking with Interest Podcast
(06:58):
for sponsoring this episode.
So back to the conversation or back tothe issue of First Amendment audits you
can find a lot more examples online ofFirst Amendment audits that target banks
of all sizes from little community banksall the way up to the largest nationwide
nationwide financial institutions.
(07:18):
And this is a problem that may growsince auditors can often monetize
their videos with YouTube advertising.
The more confrontational thevideo, the more views it attracts.
And that means more money For theauditors who are posting the video,
here's what one banker said whowas filmed by an auditor and then
threatened by members of the public.
"They want this to escalate, and youdon't know that we're not used to
(07:39):
people who want to escalate. They'rehere to antagonize." That's something
that's hard for, again, hard for bankerswith a customer orientation who just
want to be, have a conversation andtry to try to engage rationally with
somebody who's filming their branch.
But it's something that youneed to keep in mind if you
see this kind of thing come up.
The a BA Bank security committeehas actually published a series
(08:02):
of tips for dealing with firstAmendment auditing activity.
And that's available on ABAswebsite at aba.com/risk.
Go ahead and take a look.
It provides tips for if auditors areon public property, if auditors enter
a branch, if the situation escalatesto harassment and threats and engage
(08:22):
and, and includes several tips thathave come directly from bank security
professionals as well as from the banksthat have been affected by these these
challenges and ABAs risk managementpro professionals here on our staff.
So that's the rest of that.
That's the conversation today.
Just wanted to, you know, for, obviouslyI didn't want to put any anybody who's
already been victimized by, I didn'twanna put anybody who's already been
(08:45):
victimized by threatening phone calls,you know, on the air to say, you
know, tell us about your experience.
But I did wanna make sure thatbankers understand what's going
on out there-- this is the kind ofactivity that could come to your
branch, could come to your bank -- andmake sure that bankers experience
with these First Amendment audits iscommunicated to a broader audience of,
of financial industry professionals.
(09:06):
So thanks so much for listening.
Thanks to Intrafi's Banking with InterestPodcast for sponsoring this episode.
We'll be back with you again very soon.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.