What Do We Need to Stop the Scroll?

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey, before we start the show today, holy cow, that's
right, kids.
We have a new patron.
Yes, it is Ralph Estep Jr.
Check out his new show becausewe know Ralph.
He's been around a while.
It is the Grit and GrowthBusiness Show.
Let me go over and read hisabout page.

(00:20):
That's always fun.
It says, if I can get my ownstuff out of my way, Grit and
Growth Business Strategies, thegrowth business you...
Hold on, let me read this again.
Grit and growth businessstrategies that grow business.
You didn't build your businessthe easy way, and this podcast,
well, it doesn't pretend it'seasy.

(00:42):
Hosted by Ralph Estep Jr., aseasoned accountant,
entrepreneur, and business coachwith over 30 years of real-world
experience, Grit and GrowthBusiness is for small business
owners who build it from scratchand are still fighting to make
it work.
Each week, Ralph deliversstraight talk, coaching, and
practical strategies to help yougrow a business that actually

(01:02):
supports your life, not justdrains it.
I love that.
We cover topics like pricingwith confidence, fixing broken
operations, getting paid,finally, and growing without
burning out.
No fluff, no hype, just gritty,honest insights and solutions
that work in the real world.
New episodes drop weekly.

(01:23):
Again, visit his website,gritandgrowthbusiness.com for
tools, resources, and coaching.
If you're tired of overnightsuccess stories and ready for
the real strategies that growbusinesses, go over there, click
on the follow button because youare just getting started.
So Ralph, thank you so much forbeing an awesome There it is.

(01:49):
It's that music that means it isSaturday morning.
It is time for Ask the PodcastCoach, where you get your
podcast questions answered live.

(02:11):
I'm Dave Jackson fromtheschoolofpodcasting.com, and
joining me right over there, theone and only Jim Cullison from
TheAverageGuy.tv.
Jim, how's it going, buddy?

SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Greetings, Dave.
Happy Saturday morning to you.
Always good to be with you on aSaturday morning.
You know what?
We missed the happy Memorial Daylast week.

SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
We

SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
did.
You

SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
know what else we missed?
Your birthday.
Oh, we did.
Yes.
It is your birthday.
So happy birthday, Jim.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Appreciate that.
If you go to out to ask thepodcast coach and you click on,
I want to say support.
There's a button there where youcan be like, there's a gym
button there.
So if you want to send Jim somecash, there is a button to do

(02:52):
that.
So, oh, but we should coming outlistening.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
And

SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
did you get anything special for your

SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
birthday?
Oh, the kids came over onSunday.
We had a good time.
We had a good time with that.
And yeah, you know what?
This year, my wife, actually,you can see one of them in the
screen here.
She made some pictures.
Remember these things that we,right there?
Yeah.
Remember these things?
That's me with our old cat.
We remember those things thatyou'd print out or you'd go,
you'd drop off a little filmthing and then you'd go pick up

(03:21):
an envelope full of these paperthings that had pictures on
them.
I don't know what they are, butshe had some of those printed
and we framed those up and I Soyeah, it was good.
Very good birthday.
So thanks for the wishes.

SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
There you go.
And thanks to all of ourservicemen.
I've always, if I get thisright, I think Memorial Day is
where we remember those who areno longer with us.

SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Correct.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Veterans Day.
Yeah.
Veterans Day is more like, hey,thanks for those who who are
with us and keeping us, youknow, in theory safe.

SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Exactly.
It's exactly, they get, they doget mixed up all the time.
Although Dave, I did have adream last night that I was back
in the military and I was tryingto get in processed, you know,
and I showed up at the barracksand I was like,

SPEAKER_03 (04:08):
Hey,

SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
yeah.
And then I realized I don't havea single uniform.
How am I going to do this?
And then I

SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
woke up.

SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
or if you had one, would it fit?
That would be my whole thing.
I was playing with an app todayor yesterday.
It's a health thing, and it hasyou kind of stripped down to
your skivvies and take a sideangle view.
Oh, that was not pretty.
That was like, wow.
Oh, that was, yeah, okay.

(04:38):
But you know what will give youthe energy to get up and
exercise?
That's right, a nice piping hotcup of java there.
And that, of course, is broughtto you by the coffee pourer.
is brought to you by our goodfriend, Mark, over at
podcastbranding.co.
Look, it's the only place to goif you want to look good.

(04:59):
He will make artwork for you,but he'll do more than that.
He'll do a whole website.
And the beautiful part of Markis that he will sit down with
you one-on-one.
And look, he's the marketingguy.
Point him at your website.
He'll want to know what yourshow's about, what your vibe
maybe kind of is, just so thateverything is in alignment.

(05:19):
He's been podcasting since 2013.
That's the other thing you'renot going to get from some other
graphic artists.
They're going to be like a pod.
What was that thing on YouTube?
No, Mark knows what a podcastis.
He's been doing it since 2013,30 years in the design field as
well.
And he's going to make you lookamazing.
Remember, they got to see youbefore they hear you.

(05:41):
And when it comes time tolooking great, there's only one
place to go.
And that is podcastbranding.co.
Tell him Dave and Jim sent you.

UNKNOWN (05:55):
Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
And of course, big thanks to our good friend Dan
Lefebvre over there at Based ona True Story, based on
truestorypodcast.com.
You know, as I'm looking at hissite right now, he has a request
an episode button, which is kindof cool.
I mean, think about getting somefeedback from your, you've got a
movie that you like.
I wonder how it says it's basedon a true story, but is it

(06:21):
really?
You can head over to his siteall the way to the right.
There is a tab.
I'm wondering why it's notshowing up.
I think you got to scroll down.
Dave, I think we can't see thatbecause it's off to the right
there.
That's not showing on thescreen, but you can check it out
today.
It's a good looking site.
It really is.
Yeah, it really is.
You can see the latest episodebeyond the true story, not a

(06:43):
real enemy with Robert Wolf.
You can request an episode,check it out today based, look
at that artwork there.
Isn't that cool?
Based on a true story, based ontruestorypodcast.com.
Dan, as always, thank you foryour sponsorship.

SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
And One of the things I thought we would do
today is somebody had asked aquestion about social media.
And I've always kind of saidsocial media, the more I look
into it, it's not that it's awaste of time.
It's a great way.
To me, I'm starting to think ofit like a commercial for your

(07:20):
show.
It's something that reminds you.
I remember there's a TV showhere in the U.S.
called The Connors.
And it just went off the air.
They had their big finale thing.
It used to be Roseanne back inthe day.
And I saw so many commercialswhere it was like, the final
episode of The Conners is comingup and blah, blah, blah.
And Tracker, there's another TVshow that every time I turn on

(07:42):
TV, they're reminding me towatch Tracker, which
coincidentally, I just found outis the number three show, I
guess, on CBS or whatever.
So that promotion helps.
And I think that's kind of whatsocial media is.
Like, I'll give you an example.
So I was like, huh.
So I thought what I would dothis morning is I got kind of I
try to step out of me and golook at what I do when I do

(08:09):
social.
So for me, I'm still, you know,whatever you want to call it.
I know there's some really badthings on social.
X, but for me, a lot of myaudience is still there and it's
hard for me to walk away fromhowever many thousands of people
are following me.
So I start to scroll down and Isee a picture of Doug Pinnock
from King's X, which is funbecause I'm wearing a King's X

(08:30):
shirt today.
Henry Winkler doesn't likecarrot cake.
These are the valuable thingsyou're learning.
Adam Curry was live yesterday,but there was this thing, Daniel
J.
Lewis had said, hey, I might bechanging my opinion on having
episode numbers at the beginningof...
the show title and so I repliedI'm like I don't think that's a

(08:50):
good idea and then I wasscrolling down I see where Tom
Rossi from Buzzsprout is at someconference but I'm still
scrolling I'm like I'd stop totalk to Daniel because Daniel's
a great friend of mine and Ilove everything he does and I'm
scrolling down and I'm like okayI see Doug's going to be playing
bass for somebody and I'mscrolling and somebody went to
bed before 10 okay and thenthere's Chris from Podtastic and

(09:13):
I'm scrolling and I'm scrollingand nothing's really catching my
eye and And then I finally, I'mlike, about this time, normally
I would be gone.
But then I see Matt Cundall, andI'm like, oh, I like Matt.
And then, but he's talking aboutsomething, some guy's teaching
English, and I'm like, nope.
Then I see Rob Greenlee'stalking about video.
And I was like, okay, am I goingto watch that there, though?

(09:34):
No, but I might go over andwatch that later.
And then finally, when I getdown here, because of course
there's some political stuff,and I was like, wait a minute.
Joe Rogan interviewed Bono.
And that's when I stoppedbecause A, it's probably three
hours of Bono.
I love U2.
I love, well, I don't love Bono.

(09:56):
That's kind of why I wanted tohear it because Bono can be kind
of a, I don't know, he's gotopinions that I don't always
agree.
And then it's three hours ofthat.
And I'm hoping that it's goingto be An interesting
conversation.
And you never know with Joe.
Sometimes Joe has, but that wasone that stopped the scroll.

(10:17):
I was like, oh, because I don'treally, I don't even subscribe
to Joe Rogan.
When that happens, if somebodysays, oh, did you hear, you
know, so-and-so, like I just,there's a really funny British
comedian that lasts reallyweird.
I forget his name, but he was onbecause he has a new show out.
And I watched about 15 minutesof that and went, yeah, no.

(10:39):
But Bono made me stop thescroll.
So with that said, if you wantpeople to stop the scroll, you
got to have something that, A, Ican't get anyplace else.
I can't get, you know, JimmyFallon's not doing a three-hour
interview with Bono.
It just, to me, that was like,okay.
So the things there that made mestop were my friends doing

(11:01):
something interesting, and itwas a conversation.
It wasn't like Daniel wasn'tlike, go listen to my episode.
He was actually being social onsocial media.
But the thing that made me like,oh, I am going to go listen to
that later.
So again, it's a commercial.
Coming this week on Joe Rogan,Bono.
So I don't know.
To me, that's where you'llnotice if I were to go back and

(11:24):
look, probably 80% of that Ijust scrolled on by.
And so that's what people aredoing.
Some people call it doomscrolling.
Cause a lot, like we saw therewas a thing there with Elon Musk
and I'm sure there was plenty ofactivity on that.
But as I was scrolling, most ofit, I'm just like, yep.
Okay.
Yep.
And then I see the one thing andI was like, oh, okay.

(11:44):
Yeah.
And then, so I don't know,thoughts, Jim, is that kind of
what, is that what you do onsocial?

SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Well, yeah, I don't actually, I'm doing less and
less personally.
I'm doing less and less socialall the time, but at work at
Gallup, you know, we, have beentrying out a bunch of different
things.
And there's been someconventional wisdom, you know,
get these short videos out thereand, and, you know, people want
to hear people and the words,you know, words coming up on the

(12:12):
screen.
And none of that performed verywell for us.
You know, it was like, yeah,maybe we're doing it wrong.
I, you know, who knows, but wethrew it out there and tested it
and measured it.
And I guess the point of this isdo social, have some metrics
behind it.
I mean, if you enjoy doing it,if it's fun for you, just keep
doing it.
Like, do it the way you want.
If you enjoy it, if you're doingit to, you know, to get an

(12:34):
effect, get an ROI, if you needto do it for your job or
whatever, it'd be great toprobably have some metrics of
tracking these.
How is it working?
How are people engaging?
What are they doing?
We made a decision to move awayfrom that you know, from that
voice content and are going tojust pop in the words up on the

(12:55):
screen and that those wereperforming a lot better.
So I'm with you.
I, listen, I think the bestsocial we get is one-on-one
conversations with real people.
Like I, I had built these biggroups and they had gotten a
little squirrely on me.
Like the groups kind of, Youknow, you get these big groups,

(13:16):
then you got to start doing someheavy moderation because people
are people, you know, and theystart doing, you know, different
things or we had some problemswith just outright moderation.
advertising in our groups.
Like, everybody was justadvertising to everybody about
everything.
And you're like, guys, it's nota swap meet.
Like, there's other places to godo that.

(13:38):
Like, we're here forconversation.
I switched my methodology lastyear to more individual
one-on-one.
Now, that's hard.
Like, on LinkedIn, I have 22,000connections now.
And I try to interact with mycustomer As much as I can
one-on-one.
Listen, I love the groupthink,but man, groupthink can get away

(14:00):
from you sometimes too.
Oh, yeah.
Groups do terrible things whenthey get incited, right?
So I'm changing.
I have been changing myphilosophy for more one-on-one.
We'll see.
It's so far so good, right?
I mean, it's more work.
It's a little more work.

(14:21):
But those one-on-oneconversations are a little more
engaging, right, in that, andthey're a little more helpful.
And you don't get, I don't have,you know, we see this all the
time in the podcast space.
Somebody asked a question.
three of the answers are moreconfusing than the person who is
asking the question.
Right.
And then there's always agendastied to them.
And, you know, everybody's, youknow, asking any podcast group,

(14:44):
you know, or should I host?
Do people still ask thatquestion?

SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
Oh, I saw it this morning.
Yeah.
It's like, I'm thinking of doingthis.
Does anybody, and what's alwaysweird is it's like, should I use
pod bean or, you know, Mike'shouse of hosting, like somebody
you've never heard of.
And I'm like, that's not evenlike for me, my top, like, you

(15:07):
know, so that's always kind offun.
Chris from castahead.net says,yeah, stop the scroll.
One of the benefits of the firstthree seconds of your video or
the thumbnail image on YouTube.
Yep, absolutely.
Because I know on YouTube TV, onmy TV, when I kind of go to the
next thing and I haven'tclicked, I want to watch the

(15:28):
video.
It'll start playingautomatically.
Quite a bit of it.
And I can figure out, do I wantto watch this or not?
And then the amazing Jeff Seetotally, he says, I also think
Dave hit on something reallyimportant.
Your friends, community is goingto be even more important with
the rise of AI.
Absolutely.
I just, the AI thing, every,speaking of YouTube, every time

(15:52):
I look for anything on YouTube,it's just that AI voice thing.
Zooming in on pictures fromAmazon.
And I'm like, I want an actualperson holding the product.
One other thing I should throwin, since we're talking about
social and where this came from,two things.
This one, let me share my screenhere real quick.
I'll read this.

(16:12):
It says it's been, I've beenpodcasting since 2019 and truly
enjoy it.
So that's, let's just stopthere.
You're having fun.
Let's not overlook that.
As it's a passion project, I'vehad little growth, but I put
literally no effort intomarketing or growth.
So let's look at that sentence.
I've had little growth, but Iput no effort into growth.

(16:35):
So we've kind of answered thatquestion.
I find guests that I findfascinating reach out and book
discussions.
I do it all myself, includingall audio and video editing.
I started a YouTube channel awhile ago.
I'll stop there.
This week on the School ofPodcasting, I'm interviewing
Thomas Umstadt, Jr.
Just because it's fun to sayUmstadt.
Can you have a more German name?

(16:57):
I love that.
And he's an audio guy thatstarted a YouTube channel, and
he's sharing the insights.
So that's coming up on theSchool of Podcasting.
But in this case, Dude Vizzlesays, I started a YouTube
channel a while ago and push outclips and full episodes out to
the channel from my show feeds.
My dream is to grow just enough,to monetize just enough, to pay

(17:17):
someone to be my social mediaand marketing manager, slicing
up clips, publishing them everyother day or so on all social
platforms.
I have no interest in doing thatmyself.
Well, for the record, you know,castahead.net will do that for
you.
I have no interest in doing thatmyself.
If someone has recommendations,please share.
But I just thought it wasinteresting that he was, we lost

(17:41):
Jim, right?
Well, that was interesting.
I saw that and I was like, well,what happened to Jim?
And I was like, he's not there.
Jim's not here, Dave.
Jim's not here.
And so I thought that was kindof interesting that his goal
there was I really need social.
And that's fine.
Social is a great place to besocial.

(18:01):
But on the other hand, it's interms of growth.
We haven't really seen that.
The other thing I thought Iwould talk about when it comes
to social is is my buddySatoris, a member of the School
of Podcasting, and he's back.
And do I have to assign you now?
No, you're back.
Okay.
Is another thing about SocialGym that just came out this

(18:23):
week.
I talked to him last nightbecause of that whole unlimited
consulting thing that I do.
Satoris over at The Voice ofGreece, he's just started this
podcast called And he saidsomething that was really like,
I guess there was a volcano orsomething happened in Greece.
And somebody said, well, whydidn't they move the people?
And he said, well, on thebeaches and stuff, they don't

(18:45):
have sirens.
That's not the way it works inGreece.
It's not there.
So he was giving kind of bootson the ground kind of, you know,
knowledge.
And for some reason, unbeknownstto him or me, he lost his
channel on Twitter.
Like they just banned him,blocked him, no kind of appeal.

(19:06):
And he's just like, you know,and he had thousands of people
following on him forever.
So be careful when you're, youknow, putting your group on
Facebook.
Because I know Paul G lost84,000 people on Facebook.
And I was like, what's weird isI still don't get why Paul
rebuilt his group on Facebook.
I'm like, Paul, what are youdoing?

(19:27):
Let me introduce you toHeartbeat.
I

SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
tried to move.
I tried to move.
You can hear me okay?
Yeah.
My back.
I tried to move my group offFacebook one time.
Yeah.
Hey, we're thinking of changing.
And it was like a revolt.
You're not changing me.
Like, don't even think aboutmoving.
So, you know, depending on thedemographic, I think, of your
audience as well, you know,we're mostly, you know, 45 to 65

(19:53):
ladies dominate for sure in ourgroup.
It's like, and I don't wantanother place to go.
I think we're going toeventually have to move.
I don't, I can't see thislong-term.
I've got some things going on totry and maybe build a, you know,
to build a group internally orcause I, you know, I just, yeah,
I can't, I just don't want to gointo another platform.

(20:16):
Right.
You know, so, okay.
So it's not Facebook.
Then what are we moving to?
And then, you know, it's justanother platform.

SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
Well, the thing that got me is on this show.
I said, I really would like toclose down my Facebook group
because I don't trust Facebook.
I've already been kicked out ofmy own Facebook group once.
Don't really want to go throughthat again.
And when I said that...
Somebody heard that on the showand went over to the Facebook
group and said, hey, everybody,we need to start posting over

(20:43):
here because Dave's going toclose this down.
And I'm like, no, that's thedirect opposite of what I want.
I want people to go over toHeartbeat because I've had
people say it's another app.
I go, it's also a website.
You don't need to install theapp.
And for me, when you move yourgroup, I remember when– I want
to say Don Miller, but that'snot right– He does 38 Days to

(21:06):
the Work You Love.
I have to look up his name.
That's going to drive me nuts.
Maybe it's Dan Miller.
And Don Miller is the guy.
Yeah, Don Miller.
We'll figure it out later.
This is why you don't do a liveshow.
But anyway, it's Miller.
I'm pretty sure that's it.
Moved his group from Facebook tosomething.
I think he used Mighty Networks.
And he said he lost like 60% ofhis group.

(21:26):
He goes, but the people thatwere there were really there.
Like they were there to do thatand they were engaged.
And it was, he said it was amuch better group.
It was just much smaller.
But it's, that's a huge ego hitto lose, you know, 70% of your
group.
It's like, ouch.
For sure.

SPEAKER_02 (21:42):
Hey, the chat room's saying I'm a little low.
I think when, before the showand me monkeying around with my
settings, maybe they got turneddown a little

SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
bit.
Okay.
I have turned you up and I'mturning me down a little.
Let me.

UNKNOWN (21:52):
There we go.

SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Yeah, so we should thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Stop bossing me around

SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
with your voice.
Yes, Dan Miller is 38 Days tothe Work You Love.
Don Miller is StoryBrand.
Thank you, Dan, for that.
I appreciate that.
And Brad.
Yeah, Jeff C.
says, free versus paid groupmakes a difference.
People are more open moving ifthey paid for the content.
Yep, that's absolutely true.
And then the one and only, hey,Ralph, I don't know when you

(22:19):
showed up.
We did a big shout-out for youat the beginning of this and
your new show, Grit and GrowthBusiness.
He says, that's why I'm going tocreate a community of my own,
just not willing to pay the$28,000 for a community that was
the private label cost I wasquoted yesterday.
Only$28,000.
That's all.
Buy one, get one free, maybe.
I don't know.

(22:40):
Holy cow.
Yeah, anytime you dowhite-labeled stuff, Because I
know there's a white-labeledversion of Heartbeat, and it's
not cheap.
So, you know, that's kind oftricky.
The other thing, I have a clip.
There's a guy named Rick Beato.
And if you go to the YouTubesand search for Dave Gilmore,

(23:04):
won't come on my show.
Now, Rick Beato has millions ofsubscribers.
He's got billions, billions, Isay with a B, of views now.
And what I loved about it is ifyou Google that, if you Google,
if you search on YouTube, RickBeato, and Beato is B-E-A-T-O,

(23:24):
Rick Beato, Dave Gilmore, yousee the video from eight months
ago that says, Dave Gilmore, bythe way, is the lead guitar
player of Pink Floyd, won't comeon my show.
And then you'll see in the, alsoin the same search results, you
will see where Dave Gilmore cameon his show two months after
that video.
But if people talk about, I knowwe all talk about, especially in

(23:48):
the U.S., you know, thenighttime talk shows, the
Jimmys, right?
The Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel,the other guy from Comedy
Central that I can't remember.
Well, who is that guy on CBS?
See, I don't even watch it.
I can see he has jet black hair.
Anyway, but again, he's leftsuch an impression on me.
And he got really– well, both heand Kimmel got really political.

(24:11):
Seth Meyers?
Nope.
Seth Meyers is on later.
Man, he's got black horn-rimmedglasses.
I can see his face.
Oh, Colbert.
Colbert, yes.
Colbert, yeah.
And so anyway, this is RickBeato.
Now, this is kind of a longclip.
So Jim and I are going to stareat each other awkwardly as we
listen to this.
But he's explaining– because hesaid– He had Sting on his– well,

(24:34):
again, YouTube podcast on hischannel.
And he got more views of thatinterview than if you– because
Sting has also been on theJimmys and on Colbert.
And if you add all their viewstogether, they don't even come
close to the views of Sting onhis channel.

(24:55):
And this is him explaining why–in this case, he's saying how
YouTube is outperforming TV– AndI would just say this is why
podcasts are better than TV.

SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
So what's the difference between Sting being
on my channel and Sting being onJimmy Fallon, Stephen Colbert,
or Jimmy Kimmel?
Well, first of all, I knowSting's entire catalog.
I know all the police records.
I know all the solo records.
I know who produced the records.
I know who engineered therecords.
I know the songs on them.
I know how to play the songs.

(25:25):
When he brought Dominic Millerwith him to the interview, I had
no idea that Dominic was comingwith him until he showed up.
That didn't freak me out.
I know that Dominic joined theband in 1990.
I knew the whole history of himbeing in the band.
He came on the Soul Cagesrecord.
He came in.
He's been playing with Stingever since.
In addition, I interviewedDominic here later on.
That video has two and a halfmillion views.

SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
I'm

SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
going to pause this a second.
Notice how he's getting reallypassionate about this.
His voice is like, look, this isthe...
When I interview people, I talkabout their music, and that's
it.
I don't get into personal stuff.
I'm not interested in that.
I'm talking about things andasking questions related to the
things that they know,first-person accounts of their

(26:08):
songwriting, of the way theyrecorded their records, all
these things, how they writemelodies.
All the things that I asked,what instruments they played on
there, who produced, how longdid it take to write the song,
how long did it take to recordit, how far apart did the people
stand?
Like when I interviewed RonCarter, when you did a Miles
session, how far apart did youguys stand from each other?

(26:30):
Did you rehearse for it?
What's the difference betweenplaying with McCoy Tyner or
Herbie Hancock on the piano?
What's the difference betweenplaying with Elvin Jones or Tony
Williams?
Ron Carter is the only personreally that can answer those
questions.
And these are the ones that Iask.
So what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yes, okay.
Thank you, Rick.
So he's a musician.
He's a producer, really talentedmusician, by the way.
The guy can play some seriousguitar.
He makes money from his YouTubechannel by selling his own
products.
Now, I'm sure he's gettingbillions of views, so he's
getting whatever his low CPM is,but he doesn't have sponsors on

(27:07):
the show.
He's getting two nickels.
But I love the fact that theother thing is, He chooses the
guests.
I forget who I was listening to,but they were talking about
being on Letterman and howsomething happened in their
first segment and how sometimesthe guests will lean over and
Dave will say something and youcan't hear it because they're

(27:29):
already going to commercial.
And basically, Dave was justlike, it doesn't matter.
We're just going to ask thequestions on the card and it's
like it's no...
I've heard, not Craig, but CraigFerguson, explain that one of
the things that really burnt himout was he had to interview
people he had no yearning tointerview at all.

(27:53):
It's like, here, you're going tointerview the new pop princess,
Sabrina, what's her name?
And she's going to come out in amini top and blah, blah, blah.
It's like, I don't care.
I don't care about this person.
So Rick has had people on hischannel interview And it's
people he wants to talk to.
And I think that makes a bigdifference too.

(28:14):
So I say that because I saw athing in Reddit that somebody
was talking about having bigguests.
And Chris says, Beato'sinterviews are incredible for
music nerds.
That's it.
It's who's his audience?
Music nerds, musicians.
Rick Rubin, he said, actuallyinterviewed him and Which was

(28:34):
also great.
Yeah.
And Rick will do, like, thereare some people that are like so
big shot smarty pants that youhave to go to their house to
interview them.
And so Rick Beato went to RickRubin's house and interviewed
him.
And you get stuff that you justdon't get in other interviews.
One of my favorite quotes everwas there's a band called

(28:56):
Extreme.
They have a really amazingguitar player.
The guy's name is NunoBetancourt.
And Nuno was talking aboutmeeting Eddie Van Halen.
And every guitar player kind ofwants to sound like Eddie Van
Halen.
And Nuno definitely has thetalent to play like Eddie Van
Halen.

(29:16):
But he said, I still, you know,I'm tweaking the equipment,
trying to get it to sound justlike Eddie.
And he said, I finally got askedto go to his studio.
And he goes, and there's Eddieplaying.
Sounding like Eddie, beingEddie, like there's the guitar
there.
Holy cow, it's Eddie Van Halen.
And Eddie goes, hey, I'm tryingto tweak something.
Can you do me a favor?
Can you play my guitar?
And he goes, I'm finally goingto sound like Eddie Van Halen.

(29:40):
I don't believe it.
And he goes, and I put on theguitar and hit a couple of
chords and I start playing.
And he goes, crap, I still soundlike me.
And that's where it's in thehands, ladies and gentlemen,
when it comes to guitar players.
And so when I say it's not thegear, it's not the gear.
And I was like, that's a greatexample of that.
And so, yeah, Randy says Iinterviewed, I enjoyed his Brad

(30:04):
Paisley interview.
So also it's really belated now,but Randy just had a birthday
not too long ago.
I was checking out, leaningtowards wisdom, and I was
catching up, and I was like, oh,I missed his birthday.

SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
Ironically, we all have them every

SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
year.
You know, we do.
In fact, there's probablysomebody right now, they're
like, yeah, mine happened 11months ago.
So

SPEAKER_02 (30:25):
yeah, it does keep coming.
It keeps coming around.

SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
But this person was kind of saying that I guess Pat
Flynn has announced, or somehow,I kind of pop in and out of Pat
Flynn, the passive income, smartpassive income.
And Pat has kind of said,probably in an interview, that
he's not really going for the,quote, big guests.
He's going for the interviews.

(30:51):
Like, who has the interestingtopics, not who has the biggest
following.
Because, you know, in somecases, not so much in
podcasting, but the people thathave the biggest following may
not have the coolest story.
or the best content for youraudience, or et cetera, et
cetera.

(31:11):
And so he's more about findinginteresting people that can
bring value to his audience, notso much, oh, they were on the
cover of Time magazine orwhatever.
And that definitely has itsplace, because it's cool to say,
I had Dave Gilmore on my show,but if Dave is kind of boring,

(31:32):
then in the end...
Like, I've had Pat Flynn on myshow.
I've had John Lee Dumas.
But the one that people talkabout is Glenn the Geek.
You know, that's why that guy'sbeen back five.
Not that John and Pat didn'tdeliver great value, but some of
the stuff that Glenn said reallygot them, you know, going.
And they're like, wait, how didhe do that again?

(31:52):
And that whole nine yards and,you know, and all really Glenn
said was...

SPEAKER_03 (31:56):
Don't be boring.

SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Yeah.
And so...
Keep that in mind when it comesto interviews.
I just interviewed a guy namedTracy Johnson on the School of
Podcasting.
If you go over there now,schoolofpodcasting.com slash
episodes, you'll see it.
And he had a criteria.
And that was one, are theyknown?
B, kind of are they interesting?
Or do they have an interestingtopic?

(32:17):
Then B, can they have theinteresting topic come out of
their mouth?
Because there are people thatare absolutely brilliant, but
just can't talk about it.
And I was like, that's kind of acool criteria because you can
have somebody with greatcontent, and as long as they
have great content and they canget it out of their mouth, it
doesn't really matter if they'reknown or not.

(32:40):
And he said you can kind of getaway with it if they're known
and they're entertaining, theycan talk.
But if they don't have greatcontent, he goes, you've got to
work.
You've got to work at that.
So it's one of those where youhave like two out of three
people you got to put in someelbow grease as my grandma used
to say to, to really get that togo.
Do you, have you had anybody, Iknow you interview all sorts of

(33:01):
people on home gadget geeks thathave you ever interviewed
somebody that wasn't quite ahousehold name that really just,
you know, brought the goods?

SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
Well, I shoot for community.
So like I have a, I probablyhave a list of, sorry, I
probably have a list of, um, 10or 12 folks that I kind of roll
through and have on the showonce a quarter or so.
And, you know, and then there'sa few who may be on there,

(33:31):
they're on twice a year orsomewhere on once a year, kind
of depends on their schedule andwhat they want to do.
Jeff C in our chat room, he'sbeen on before.
I try to find, I try to takeadvantage of the You know, in
the gadget space, it's changingall the time, right?
So, you know, it was hot lastyear.
It's not hot anymore, and nobodywants to talk about it.
So I try to kind of, as peopleare into things or they've

(33:55):
really gotten into some kind ofgadget, I try to capture that
right then, right?
And then I also have a group offolks who I just say, hey, when
you have something interestingto say, call me.
Like, let's get you on.
And that just happened thismorning.
I had a guest who I have onmaybe every other year.
And I just say to him, hey, whenyou're ready, just ping me.

(34:16):
He's a great guest, super smartPhD.
And I just say, when you'reready, you just ping me.
And I've had folks where Ihaven't had him in a year or
two, and I ping them and say,you want to come on?
And they're like, I got nothing.
Like, no, I appreciate that.
That is.
Yeah, no, I don't have anythingto do.

UNKNOWN (34:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
For me, and then every once in a while, like last
week I interviewed Doug Milburnfrom 45 Drives, which in the
home lab, home server, storage,hard drive space, they're doing
some interesting things in thatspace.
They're kind of a name there.
And he was a super interestinginterview for me.

(34:55):
I was chatting with Ed Sullivanon Sunday and I was like, what'd
you think?
He's like, ah, I'm just notinterested in it.
Like, you know, and so there isthat, you know, you're not going
to hit it with everybody all thetime.
And it's not, you know, the moreof a niche you go into, the less
people who are actually going tolisten to it, regardless of how
interesting it is, by the way.
Like I have no interest.

(35:16):
in these music interviews thatthis guy that you're talking
about earlier, these music, it'sgreat that he's asking all these
details.
I couldn't care less about anyof them.
You know, I just don't, JayFranzi, who's been on my show a
bunch, and he's out, he'ssometimes out in chat.
Jay also is in the music space,and he's like, oh, yeah, I've
interviewed, you know, PatBenatar, and, you know, he

(35:37):
starts rattling off all thesenames, right?
And you're like, well, that'ssuper cool, but I'm still not
interested in anything they haveto say.
I couldn't really care what PatBetatar is saying about anything
at this point, right?
That's not saying anything abouther.
I'm just not interested in thosekind of topics.
So I think, you know, your,this, I think this all comes
back around, one, making sureyou're not, like, with a guest

(36:02):
philosophy, making sure you'renot, you moving the needle so
far and so fast every week, youknow, where it's, I might be
guilty of this on Home GadgetGeeks, where one week it's this
topic, it's topic A, and thenthe next week it's not topic B,
it's topic Z, all the way on theother end of the spectrum,

(36:24):
right?
And you're sending, you could besending your listeners into a
little bit of shock, right?
Doesn't take but a couple timeswhere they hit play, they hear
the topic and Like, nah, theymove on to their next podcast.
A couple times doing that, theymay not come back.
How do you know you're doingthat?
You don't.

(36:44):
It's just one of these thingsyou got to kind of have your...
ear to the ground for thefeedback that you're getting and
from your listeners and such.
So from Dave, from guestselection, the way we do that, I
don't, I listen, I'd rather haveguests that my audience knows.
That's why I go through thisrepeating, you know, 10 or 12 or
15 people set because myaudience knows them and they

(37:08):
actually, they, Oh, Hey, AaronLawrence is going to be on.
Yeah.
I want to listen to that onebecause Aaron brings some
interesting stuff, right?
I want those guests to have somename recognition.
in the space, in my listener'sspace.
So that's what's important tome.

SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
Yeah.
Dan says, content first, in myopinion, and then find the
expert.
Yep.
Todd the Gator says, weinterview our community because
it's right there in our show.
Right.
I mean, that's like, that's whatit's about.
In fact, Jeff C.
says, I like to interview peoplewho I think will provide value
to my audience and I don'treally care how big they are.
Yeah.
That's the, for me, the line isit's not the size of the guest

(37:45):
that brings the value.
It's the size of the value thatmakes the guest,

SPEAKER_02 (37:50):
you know?

SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
So

SPEAKER_02 (37:51):
I listen, I like it because they're just nice to me,
to be honest.
I mean, yeah, it's great for myaudience and stuff, but I love
interviewing, you know, DanLefebvre has been on the podcast
a couple of times.
Dan's a great interview.
I like Dan.
Dan is kind to me.
Like Dan, That means if I'mgoing to spend 90 minutes doing
this, I don't want to interviewsome.

(38:12):
Listen, I've interviewed acouple big name, you know, on
the Gallup side of things.
And they changed.
You get last minute schedulechanges.
Oh, we can't get Robert there,you know, at this time.
Can you move it to this?
I'm like, well, we kind ofadvertise the live show.
And they're like, well, itdoesn't matter.
It's this or nothing.
I've had them do the bait andswitch where they're like, oh,
yeah, you're going to get thisguy.

(38:33):
And then.
you get a couple days out andyou're like, oh, this guy's no
longer available.
Can we serve you up this guy?
You know, right?
And you're like, oh, come on.
You know, so I like it.
Listen, if you're on my show,it's because you're my friend.
And so I always appreciate thefolks who come on and give
their, you know, 90 minutes tobe on the show.

(38:55):
That's what I like.
I'm not gunning, I'm not runningand gunning for the, either, for
the big names.
I've done that, and they don'tthey never turn out very well.
You know, it's just like, thatwouldn't be, I don't, I
personally, I don't like that.
Now, there's some, there arepodcast hosts who know how to
handle that kind of talent, knowhow to get that done.
I think Jay Franze is one ofthose.

(39:16):
Jay knows how to do it.
He gets, he's gotten some bignames on his podcast.
He knows he's willing to put upwith their shenanigans and knows
how to handle talent.
He's been in that space.
He kind of understands.
I don't have time for that.
You know, I'm just like, no, ifyou're going to do that, I don't
have time for you.
That's a preference thing, bythe way.
That's not an either or that's apreference.

(39:37):
No, I guess it is an either or,but it's a preference thing.
What do you like?

SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
Well, I had a thing.
This really, it's been goingback and forth for a couple of
weeks and I'm hoping I, I didn'tblow it in a way, but I was
contacted by audacity, theactual software.
And they're like, would you liketo talk to so-and-so?
And I go, oh, that would beinteresting.

(40:01):
I said, you know, I would loveto know, like, how do you guys,
like, why did you buy a companythat is free?
Like, that's kind of weird.
And they brought up thatoriginally there was something
in the terms that made people alittle nervous, like it was
going to be, spyware is toostrong a word, but it was like
they were going to have, andthey're like, we changed that

(40:22):
immediately.
I'm like, oh, great.
And they're like, it's also, Isaid, I would ask about this.
And they're like, okay.
And I said, but I'm not quitesure.
What are we going to talk about?
Because I don't want it to bejust a giant commercial for
Audacity.
And I said, would you be open toa pre-interview?
And they went back and forth.
They're like, well, is thispre-interview off the record?

(40:45):
And I go, yeah.
It's just I'm trying to makesure.
I don't want to waste your time,and I don't want you to waste my
time.
And they're like, great.
And then we kind of went backand forth on some questions.
I said, also keep in mind, I'mprimarily an audio show.
The School of Podcasting isprimarily just audio.
I have a video channel, but it'snot a case where I'm recording

(41:09):
this and putting it out as avideo podcast.
It's audio.
And at that point, they went,yeah, never mind.
And I was like, okay.
Because I was kind of, I wasn'tfeeling it.
I was just like, you know, I go,and I said, but they said they
had some new stuff coming downthe pike.
I go, okay.
Please, I'm a fan of Audacity.

(41:29):
I didn't tell them I don't useit, but I was like, I'm a fan.
I know a lot of people use it.
And anytime you have newfeatures, let me know.
I'll be more than happy toannounce them and blah, blah,
blah.
And I have a course at theSchool of Podcasting about
Audacity.
Hint, hint.
Hey, guys, you want to promotemy stuff?
But it was just one of thosewhere, in the end, it just
wasn't, as the old saying goes,if it's not a hell yeah, it's a

(41:51):
no.
And it was like, I can'treally...
If we're going to be talkingabout features, yeah, you can
kind of talk about them withoutshowing them, but it probably
makes a whole lot more, a betterimpact if you show somebody how
it works, depending on what thescenario was.
But that was one where I wasjust, well, let's make sure
we're a good fit.
And you kind of go back andforth.

(42:12):
And in the end, they're like,they were probably thinking,
yeah, this guy doesn't do video.
So this isn't a great fit forus.
And for me, it was like, myaudience really wants to know
how to grow their audience andtools and stuff, and I talk
about you guys on a regularbasis.
You're something I recommend.
And so they might have justthought, well, this guy's
already talking about us.
Why do we need to spend ourtime?

(42:34):
So it wasn't entirely awkward,but it was just, yeah, let's not
do that.
Never mind.
And I figure I saved myaudience.

SPEAKER_02 (42:42):
Yeah, that was probably the right, it was a
good call.
You know, when you get thatspidey sense and you're like,
I've gotten that spidey senseand I went ahead with it and
I've always regretted it.
You're like, oh, I should havesaid no to that one, you know,
type

SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
deal.
Well, I had a pre-interviewwhere I had approached somebody
and they said they were lookingfor podcasters that run a
business.
And I was like, hey, that's me.
You know, and then in thepre-interview, they pitched me
so hard on, they're reallylooking for clients.
And I was like, cause she's kindof a business coach.

(43:20):
And I was like, oh, I see thisis okay.
So we'll see.
I doubt that I'm going to getchosen, but it was like, okay.
Well,

SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Jim Collison, So in that area, right, when you, when
you start getting pitched to,when people start coming to you
and they start, you know, like,Hey, I'd love to be on your
podcast, right?
You know, first of all, big redflag always goes up when someone
comes to me and says, I want tobe on your podcast.
Generally, there's a pitchinvolved in that.
And then, yeah, kind of, I haveto kind of remind oftentimes

(43:50):
those clients that, this isn'tthe audience to pitch to like
everybody that listens is doingwhat you're doing.
You're pitching to the wrong,like you're singing to the
choir.
Right.
But there, you know, there'sthis, you know, in the current
business coaching space and it'svalid, you know, get on as many

(44:11):
podcasts as you can get outthere and get your message out.
No podcast is a waste of time.
Get, you know, do the, do everyinterview you can get your hands
on.
But I do need to, at some pointprotect my audience from another
pitch, you know, they're alsodoing that kind of thing.
You know, it'd be like youhaving, you know, another

(44:32):
podcast coach on your, like, andthey come on and pitch their
stuff and you're like, well,it's kind of what I do.
Well, I, you know, I

SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
did that.
I had a, cause I've been usingpod match.
So they send these shows thatare kind of, you know, supposed
to fit me.
Well, many of them, I'm theircompetition.
Right.
And so I, I went over and did myhomework and listened to it,
that whole nine yards.
And I said, I see where I am inthe same kind of genre as you.

(45:01):
If you'd rather talk more aboutmy book than the School of
Podcasting, I'm completely open.
And then I said, and I'mcompletely open to a
pre-interview.
Because there's some people,like I've had other podcast
consultants on the School ofPodcasting, but it's because
they have Either something thatI didn't know or something like
that.
And I've also kind of vettedthem if it happened.

(45:24):
I've had multiple members of theSchool of Podcasting go, this
looks kind of spammy.
And they'll forward me an email.
And if you're a podcastconsultant that is spamming
podcasters, shame on you.
Because we all get enough spam.
We hate spam.
And you're spamming podcasters.

(45:44):
Like, you're not coming on myshow.
Like, ever.
Like that's your no.
So I usually vet them.
And I'm also not, the otherthing that's interesting is
like, I'm not a, I willinterview you if you interview
me.
I'm like, I don't think, causethat's not always a good fit.
You know what I mean?
If you're a podcast about, youknow, whatever, soccer, you

(46:09):
know, and you're all about howto help your kids coach.
Well, that's the coach Dave,right?
Talks about coaching soccer,right?
Right.
Well, he might come on my showbecause he has this cool
strategy that help people growhis audience.
But my audience isn't interestedin how to coach soccer.
You know what I mean?
So like it's and likewise, sohe'll be a good guest for me.

(46:29):
We could talk about how he grewhis audience.
I'm not a good guest for himbecause I don't know a thing
about coaching kids in soccer.
So the whole like, oh, let's doan interview swap.
I'm like, that doesn't alwayswork.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (46:42):
So.

SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
It's kind of tricky.
Dan says, does Audacity dovideo?
It's interesting that an audiosoftware wasn't a fan of, or
yeah, wasn't a fan of it.
I'm not sure what, I think theyjust, maybe they, I might've
offended them.
They're like, why does this guykeep asking questions?
Don't you know we're Audacity?
I'm like, I honestly don't know.
I didn't get that vibe, but itjust, it wasn't an instant

(47:05):
click.
Yeah, Randy says, we could haveplayed clips of the whole
interview.
Sure, that's that.
am i doing what did i say aboutthat's todd the gator said is
that

SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
i was trying to

SPEAKER_01 (47:15):
i was trying python in their head the knights that
say me yes i'm not dead yet sothat is coming around you

SPEAKER_02 (47:24):
don't get blocked on youtube

SPEAKER_01 (47:25):
yeah that's it exactly i thought this is an
interesting wait i have thiscute thing i can do now we're
moving on to a new topic oh andthat is i thought this was Kind
of heartwarming in a way.
She says, Now I'm thinking ofthe jerk.

(47:52):
I found my special purpose.
I told her that when the timecame, we'd start a podcast
together because we're bothpretty funny gals.
Her mom passed on Christmas Eve.
Man, that sucks.
I mean, your mom passing sucksanyway, but oh man.

(48:16):
I gave her some time to mourn asone does.
She's still struggling.
So for Mother's Day, my husbandbought me the Mayano two-person
podcast kit and told me tofollow through on my promise.
That leads me to now.
We have a loose promise.
I have the setup.
Bye.
Bye.

(48:38):
Bye.

(48:59):
Any advice or links to helpfulwalkthroughs would be fantastic.
I don't know how much time todevote to combing the web.
So if you know of anything thatcan condense the learning curve,
I'd be super grateful.
So the first thing I would saywas, A, if you need a media
host, Captivate.fm or go tosupportthisshow.com slash
Captivate.
But the thing I loved about thisis the fact that podcasting

(49:24):
doesn't always have to be aboutmaking money and promoting a
business.
It's just two people having fun.
And that's, I guess, what kindof got me on that particular
one.
And I go back to the guy thatcontacted me that said he was
going to kill himself, but heheard me say that sometimes
starting a podcast can give youa purpose.

(49:46):
And he ended up not killinghimself and started a Master
Cauldron, started his podcastabout his hobby.
So, you know, keep that in mind.
So here we go.
Boy, talk about sometimes peoplehave their own show.
I have no idea what the chatroom is talking about

SPEAKER_02 (50:04):
today.
No, it's fine.
It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (50:06):
It's fine.
What is this you guys arespeaking of?
I see where Ralph is saying, Ihave about 200 listeners.
I'll go

SPEAKER_02 (50:13):
up a little bit.
I think his question said he dida name change for his main show.
How long should I play apre-roll for people about the
name change?
And so the question is really,When do you think 80% of your
listeners are actually, haveactually listened to a show?
So of those 200, let's see whathis answer was, 200, I have

(50:34):
about 200 listeners a day for adaily show.
So when you think about thenumbers, like, when have 80% of
what you think are yoursubscribers or your main
audience?
when have they consumed it?
Is it consumed within threedays?
Is it consumed within a week?
Are they, is it a slower rollkind of thing, where they, you
think maybe it's taking a week?

(50:55):
I think that kind of dictatesthat pre-roll strategy.
You know, let's just say mostconsume, 80% consume it within a
week.
I would run it for two and thenbe done with it, right?
Put it in there, get it, youknow, you want to overshoot it a
little bit, but you don't wantit to go too long.
If you think it's three days,I'd run it for a week.
and be done with it, right, typedeal.

(51:16):
The other strategy, Ralph, wouldbe run it for a week, then run
it once a week, maybe like onFridays, for a month, so that
they get, for folks who arereally far behind and may just
be catching those, they'reembedded in there, you know, as
well.
If you have some semblance like,Hey, this is evergreen content,

(51:38):
I would, like, people arelistening to it sporadically,
and it's going to be evergreen,I would spread those
announcements out maybe over acourse of a month.
So maybe not every day, maybeevery third day, so that you're
sprinkling them in just asyou're trying to catch people.
Shouldn't be forever.
I don't know if I do it morethan a month.
You're a daily show.
That's you know, it's a lot ofchances for people to hear those

(52:01):
things.
I've been listening to the WallStreet Journal podcast, and they
have this really obnoxiouscommercial that Reba McEntire
does, and I cannot hitfast-forward fast enough to get
past that commercial, right?
So you don't want to annoy them.
You know, you don't want to, youknow, annoy them with that.
But I think that's the number.
I don't know if we can say ahard number on that.

(52:23):
Look at your audience.
Look at the bubble.
see how many days that you thinkthey're going to be out there.
If it's more evergreen, itshould probably be less frequent
but longer, and make a call.
I don't think you can go toowrong on that.

SPEAKER_01 (52:36):
Yeah, especially on a daily show, because I'm with
you.
When I make my breakfast, I goout and I ask the woman in the
tube to play the local sportschannel on the radio.
And there's this little intromusic, and it's about some
financial thing that I wouldhave paid– I would have been
making payments for 34 years ifit wasn't for such and such and

(52:57):
such.
And now I'm debt-free orwhatever.
And I'm like, do you not haveother commercials?
Did the sales guys, they couldonly sell one?
Because every time they go tobreak, there's this little
music.
And I'm just like, no.
And there's no way to fastforward.
It's a live radio thing.
And I'm like, oh, it's soannoying.
So I know for churches, they sayif you want somebody to really

(53:22):
hear a message, You have to sayit three weeks in a row because
not everybody comes every week.
So I'm with Jim.
I think I would sprinkle it infor a daily show because that
could get really annoying.
And then no longer than a month,probably a couple of weeks.
And then, like you said, thenturn it on and then turn it off.
Because otherwise, if it's everyday, you're like, hey, because

(53:44):
you know, they're going to belike, I know you've told me 14
times now.
So

SPEAKER_02 (53:49):
you could do it like a backup strategy, you know,
every day for a week.
once a week for a month, andthen maybe once a month for six
months.
Right?
And just kind of sprinkle thatin.
That way, everybody kind ofhears it.
You get the opportunity.
Your most avid daily listenersare going to get tired of it.
But they're also not tired ofyour content.
So they're going to probably putup with it a little bit longer

(54:11):
than your sporadic, you know,your sporadic users.
I like that.
For that kind of series, I likethat.
Like, you know, every day for aweek, every week for a month,
Every month for six months.

SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
And then I have an episode that's named the one
where we changed our name.
And it's just me going, hey,we're going to change our name
so that somebody's going throughthe back catalog and it's blah,
blah, blah.
And then there's the one wherethey change their name.
And then they go, why is theartwork different?
Oh, I get it.
So I always leave kind of alittle breadcrumb for them to

(54:44):
like, oh, that's what's goingon.
Jim, we haven't done this in awhile.
And now, oh, he's been waitingfor this.
It's time for Jim to get hisnerd on.
MrRanger420, that's prettyfunny.
As I'm reading that, I'm like,oh, I know what that means.
What laptop would be the best tostart a new podcast with?

(55:05):
I'm looking to get intopodcasting and want a laptop
slash tablet and a mic thatwon't break the bank, but also
help me get the ball rolling.
Any suggestions would be lovely.
What say you, Jim Collison?

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
Jim Collison, Yeah, it's a really good question.
Sooner than, sooner than laterright now with all the, with
whatever's going on in ourglobal tariff environment,
right?
You may want to make a poll onthat.
I, listen, I think it's hardright now in the PC space, if
you're going to go PC, inNot-Go-Mac, I think it's hard to
go wrong with the mid-range.

(55:39):
It kind of depends on yourbudget, right?
But between the 500 and 1,000range for most podcasters, if
you're not doing heavy videoediting, you're going to be just
fine in that space.
You know, you want to make sureyou get, if you're doing a lot
of editing, the more hard drivespace that you have, the better.
You want to make sure it hasample ports available to it,
whatever you're going to do.

(56:00):
But in today's world, with mostmodern processors, you know, in
the Windows space, we've kind ofgotten away from the really
low-end, cheap processors forthe most part.
There's still a few out there inthe budget space.
You've got to be careful ofthat.
You want to get a modernprocessor that's got a little
juice to it.
You don't have to go with thehighest one, Core A5, Core A7,

(56:22):
Core A9, somewhere in there,right?
But You know, I would say seven,well, I'm going to change that,
750 to 1,000.
If you want to splurge a littlebit, you can go about 1,200.
Get a really nice laptop.
It's going to last you a while,especially if you're buying it
now, right?
There's no, it doesn't look likethere's any Windows changes.
You know, if this was a coupleyears ago, Windows made a
change, right, where they had aTPM requirement for an upgrade

(56:47):
to Windows 11, and that'stripped a lot of people up.
You could have bought a laptopthen that didn't upgrade to
Windows 11, which would havebeen a hassle.
Today, we're kind of clear ofall those things.
So I think based on your budget,750 is a nice spot to get in.
go up to$1,000 or$1,200.
I'll be honest, though.
Just go with the Mac.

(57:07):
Right now, a little bit moreexpensive.
You and I both have Minis.
If you don't have to go mobile,a Mac Mini is just a great
podcasting tool, so to speak.
I have an M4 now.
I love it.
the price was right.
You know, again, you're in that$1,000 category, right?
If you're going to go that.

(57:28):
They're cheaper.
They're advertised cheaper, butyou can bulk them up just a
little bit.
So they, you know, you're rightat that$750 to$1,000.
So that, for a lot of folks, ifyou're saying no to Mac, yeah,
you can do the same thing on thePC side.
But I think for podcasters, Ilove the Mini.
Do not buy an iPad.
No.

(57:50):
Do not buy an iPad forpodcasting, right?
You're going to need afull-fledged computer.

SPEAKER_01 (57:56):
Dan says audio editing doesn't need a ton of
power, and that's true.
And that's where Leanne says itdepends if you're doing video.
You're going to need space, butif you're depending only on
audio, then you can get awaywith 500 gigs or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (58:08):
Listen, I do video, and I get away with 500 gigs or
with a half a terabyte.
Yeah, 500 gigs on my Mac Mini.
But I also have external storagethat I don't keep everything
there, right?
So the OS takes up half of that,and then I have about 200 gigs
spare.
Now, I'm not doing 4K, and I'mnot creating movies.

(58:29):
That's not what I'm doing.
I have a 90-minute podcast.
I do video.
I do it in 720, so it's smaller.
Yeah, it's smaller.
They're 8-gig files.
But I'm smart about themanagement of keeping where I
keep files.
They sit on my desktop until I'mdone.
delete what I don't need everyweek, and I move what I want to
keep onto my, onto storage.
And so that is, that's takencare of.

(58:50):
So you could, would I, would Igo with larger storage options
for some, if you're bad atstorage management, or you don't
have external storage, andyou're going to just use the
cloud as your backup?
Yeah, you probably want to go,you want to go full terabyte.
and maybe two.
The problem on the Mac side withthat is you pay a serious tax.

(59:11):
Yeah.
Apple tax, as we call it, fortwo terabytes.
Like, you're like, thisshouldn't be that much.
Yeah.
So, you know, probably oneterabyte's the sweet spot on the
Mac side.
I did half, and it's just fine.
That's just fine for me.
Again, I do heavy management onthat, so a lot of great.
The M series, yeah, I think Davein chat says Amazon's running a

(59:33):
deal on the M4 Mac Mini forunder$500.
Just be careful.
Like, you know, too cheap isbad, too.

SPEAKER_01 (59:41):
Oh, dude.
I don't know who did it, but...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:09):
Yeah, you got to be lit up.
Podtastic Audio says, I upgradedto an M4 Mac Mini with full
terabyte drive and 32 gig ofRAM.
That's a good, that's a reallygood upgrade there.
And then Trent says, my recordedit managed my pod.
Yeah, you can't, I wouldn't.
This is a preference thing,right?
I mean, yes, you can.

(01:00:31):
And the iPads in that M serieshave gotten some serious
horsepower.
Yeah.
I just, I wouldn't, I don't,that makes me uncomfortable.
This is a personal preferencething.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:40):
Yeah, it makes, you've added a step to
everything, because even now youcan get the ATR2100X, although
that's being discontinued, ifyou didn't know that, the
Audio-Technica ATR2100X is beingdiscontinued, per the people at
Buzzsprout.
And if you've got a USB, likethe mic I'm using right now,

(01:01:00):
Rode PodMic USB, USB-C, to usbcon an ipad you could probably
make it easy to record butthat's half the thing is how do
you get a microphone into anipad and then it's how do you
get the files yeah and then howto get the files off the ipad
into and that's we're sometimesuploading files like if you know

(01:01:22):
off of an ipad like you can'tit's just it adds complexity You
can't,

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:27):
listen, it's a different way of thinking, Dave.
We grew up in a PC era whereyou're thinking about OSs and
files and file structures andmoving those kinds of things
around.
In the new world, in the appspace, like, you don't, I don't
take files off my iPhone.
Like, I do it, you thinkdifferently.
So don't, listen, don't hear mesay, you know, the iPad OS is

(01:01:51):
bad.
You shouldn't do it that way.
If it works for you, awesome.
right?
I, and so I'll, maybe I'llretract that statement a little
bit and say, don't go with aniPad.
There are some really good iPadsout there.
And if you're comfortable doingpodcast processing and using the
app, kind of the app model, ifthat's working for you,
Certainly the M series iPads aregreat.

(01:02:14):
Like that cheer, that chip isawesome.
And so it'll do some great workfor you.
If you're comfortable with that.
Yeah.
Go down that route.
I'm a PC guy and a Mac guy.
I want a full OS.
I want to be able to do somethings with it that I, the way I
like to do it.
So it's just a preference thing.
It's good to clear that up.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:33):
Yeah.
Awesome supporters.
We love them.
You can be an awesome supporterand, In fact, one of my favorite
awesome supporters, again, is mybuddy Ralph over at
gritandgrowthbusiness.com.
If you're a small businessowner, go check him out.
He's got a few episodes out now,and he's been podcasting for a
while now with the Ask Ralphshow.

(01:02:55):
But now, if you're ready to goin and take your business
seriously, he's got TransformingChallenges into Growth podcast.
That's his first episode.
So you can be in there on theground floor as he rolls out
this show.
Check him out again atgritandgrowthbusiness.com.
And Ralph, thanks for being anawesome supporter.
If you need more help, I don'tknow what's going on with my

(01:03:19):
mouse right now.
Holy cow, we'll just do it witha keyboard.
The show is brought to you bytheschoolofpodcasting.com, where
we have courses.
We have unlimited coaching.
I was talking about how I wastalking to Satiris last night
about his Voice of Greece show.
And then I went in and I wasgoing to go see a movie and
decided not to because I wasvery shocked.
There were actual people there.

(01:03:40):
in the movie theater.
Like I would have been, like itwas almost completely sold out.
I was like, oh, I'm not used togoing to the movies with people
in it.
That's crazy.
But yeah.
And we also have an awesomecommunity over there.
Use the coupon code COACH andthat'll save you when you sign
up.
And if you go toaskthepodcastcoach.com, that is
using PodPage.

(01:04:01):
And if you'd like to usePodPage, you can use my
affiliate link, which istrypodpage.com.
It's amazing.
And I'll just to vibe on that asecond.
Somebody asked in Reddit for agreat-looking website, and I
meant to send them topodglomerate.com, except they're
on WordPress, and they werehaving a serious error of some

(01:04:23):
sort that basically gave you anerror message.
But they used PodPage for theirnetwork site, and that was up
and fine.
So just something to thinkabout.
We're using Ecamm Live.
If you want to check out EcammLive, go to
askthepodcastcoach.com slashEcamm.
Links will be in the show notesfor all this stuff.
And if you need more JimCullison, and hey, who doesn't,

(01:04:44):
check him out over attheaverageguy.tv and check out
his show, Home Gadget Geeks.
And it's time to find thefeatured supporter of the week.
And yes, Ralph is on the wheeltwice now.
Once for the Grit and GrowthBusiness Show and the
Financially Confident Christian.
Who will be the winner?

(01:05:06):
The winner?
I can't talk today.
Earlier I said a cup of, a copof coffee, and I know a lot of
cops drink coffee, but that wasweird.
Now, well, let's just spin thewheel.
And I also see there's someoneon here I got to take off.
I was like, oh, oops.
Oh, look at it.
The one and only.
Chris Stone from castahead.net.

(01:05:28):
I didn't see it, Dave.
Do you have it up?
Are you showing it?
Yeah, do you not?
Holy cow.
There we go.
See?
Honest.
There we go.
Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:37):
I see it now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:38):
I didn't see it first.
I don't know what happened.
It's crazy.
But yeah, also, the guy that wastalking about, you know, I need
a video editor and I need clipsand all that other stuff.
That's kind of what Chris doesover there at castahead.net.
also a valuable member of theSchool of Podcasting.
So, Chris, thanks for yoursupport.
We deeply appreciate it.
And if this show is...

(01:06:01):
Are you seeing what I'm saying?
Yes.
If this show has saved you time,if it saved you money, if it
saved you some headaches, if wehave kept you educated or
entertained, maybe it's time togive some of that back.
Go over toaskthepodcastcoach.com slash
awesome podcast.
And here's a fun question.

(01:06:22):
It's one of those golden oldiesthat we go back to every now and
then.
And that is the old networkquestion.
And I just thought it was odd.
He said, seeing if there's anyresources that might point me
towards a new podcast network, Ithink we have an awesome show
and our local network hasn'tbeen the most helpful for
marketing or cross-promotion.
Any helps on this?

(01:06:43):
Thanks.
Well, if you're just doingcross-promotion, there's this
thing called Google Podcasts.
And you Google whatever yourtopic is, and then the word
podcast.
So if you're doing a show aboutgolf, Google golf podcasts.
Go out to those people and go,hey, I'm thinking of setting up
a network where we'll allcross-promote each other.
That's the easiest and the bestone, because there's no

(01:07:04):
contracts, there's no money,etc., etc.
He says, we do audio-visual asof late.
Our metrics vary between getting30 to 100 listens an episode
between all sources.
Between all sources, that'sinteresting.
So that's not just audio, that'saudio and video.
Our genre is society andculture, and our cover topics

(01:07:25):
from true crime to paranormalwith some humor sprinkled in.
So I'm starting to see whymaybe, well, no, true crime and
paranormal are somewhat related,especially when ghosts come in
and kill you.
We started late last July.
Had a lot of hiccups, but we'vebeen consistent and slowly
growing.
We are initially approached by anetwork that does local pods.

(01:07:49):
I hate it when people, oh, comeon my pod.
No, show.
Anyway, I'm really just tryingto find a better partner to help
with reach and engagement, but Isuppose that's more my job.
Yes, it is.
I was posting to see if thereare better ways to get us in
front of scouting slashproducing eyes and ears,

(01:08:09):
reaching out to see if there areany avenues I'm unaware of.
I'm absolutely doing what I canfor discovery and engagement.
And that's the one I always go,are you putting flyers out in
the local laundry?
Are you doing everything?
You're doing the easy stuffprobably is what you're doing.
And I'm delegating more socialmedia projects promotion to my

(01:08:30):
team.
So he has a team.
That's interesting.
So my thing is that everybodythinks that a network– I was
looking for– I have a book.
There's a great book called MakeNoise by Eric Newsom.
And he has a great point.
He said networks don't makesmall shows big.
They make big shows bigger.

(01:08:52):
And it reminds me a little bitof musicians that start off and
they're like, man, we need amanager.
And I'm like, you haven't had agig yet.
Like you get a manager whenthere's something to manage and
you no longer can manage it byyourself.
Then you get a manager so thatyou can go back to working on
the music stuff.
And I'm just, I guess I need togo find some people that are on

(01:09:15):
a network that go, oh, this iswhat really, I mean, everything
was going good.
But when we joined, you know,the Collison network, like we
just exploded.
I've never heard that fromanybody before.
And I think it's a great way todefinitely help grow your show.
So go find some like-mindedshows and cross-promote.

(01:09:37):
But I know, like, JordanHarbinger is on Podcast One.
And one of the benefitsthere—now, Jordan, by the way,
was a big show already when hejoined Podcast One.
But that got him access to AdamCarolla and a bunch of other
celebrities.
Like, he just interviewed KelseyGrammer.
And going back to the Rick Beatodiscussion— How did Jordan open

(01:10:00):
up that discussion?
Hey, thanks so much for comingon the show.
I just read your book on theplane.
He read the book.
He didn't just go, I'm justgoing to ask him about Cheers.
He actually read the book.
And consequently, it was areally good interview.
And you heard Kelsey Grammer, inmy opinion, in a very
transparent and honest way, say,thank you very much, because not

(01:10:24):
everybody reads the book.
And so, you know, that Joiningthat network got him access to,
you know, quote, celebrities.
And that definitely helpsbecause there's another one
where a lot of times Jordan istalking about traveling or
government things overseas thatI'm, you know, CIA, FBI stuff

(01:10:45):
that I, but kind of, but KelseyGrammer, I love Feedback Friday.
I listen every Friday to Jordan,but sometimes his guests are not
really what I'm interested in.
And so that was something Ithought was interesting.
But just the other thing to keepin mind with networks is, A, go
talk to somebody on the networkand say, what were your numbers
before and after and what youfeel are the benefits of that?

(01:11:08):
And then I wish I could rememberthe name of the show.
There was a show that joined anetwork and they didn't read the
paperwork.
And what they didn't know isthey had signed away the brand.
to the network.
Like the network owned the shownow and they were the hosts and
they got really giant egosbecause they were on this
network.
And apparently we're a nightmareto work with.

(01:11:30):
And so they got fired from theirown show and they kept the show
going without them.
And I was like, yeah, somebodydidn't read the paperwork, but
you know, so let's see here.
Two guys talking.
Oh, there you go.
See, there's a great example ofa network.
Great to see you here.
He has a podcast network.
And those are all– but it's allcross-promotion.

(01:11:53):
Like two guys, there's something– he has a police show.
There's a bunch of shows, butthey all cross-promote each
other.
So that's a great example of anetwork.
Now, does it make them agazillion downloads overnight?
Probably not.
But it's a good way– to me,that's the best use of a
network.
The other one is if you're alldoing shows about football– you

(01:12:17):
might be able to pull all yournumbers together and get a
sponsor.
And that's where the fun beginsbecause then, well, this show
got 100 downloads and that onegot 212.
And this one, so have fun withthe math, divvying up the money
because when money getsinvolved, in the immortal words
of Cyndi Lauper, money changeseverything.

(01:12:38):
So that's always fun.
Chris says, do you feel thatsome shows feel like they are
competing against each other forlistens when they're on the
network.
I know that for a fact.
Back in the day when I was on apod show, ask Adam Curry about
running a network.
First of all, he will tell youstraight up, rule number one,
you can't monetize the network.

(01:12:59):
He will say that over and over.
And he said it was babysittingbecause the shows that were big
got more money from sponsors andconsequently were getting more
exposure to because people werelooking for the show probably
because it was good.
And then there's that.
Anytime I hear thediscoverability problem, what

(01:13:20):
somebody is really saying isnobody's discovering my show.
And so all the smaller showswere like, Hey, how come they
got more money than I did?
And you're like, well, you'redoing a show about super duper
niche show.
They're doing a show with a muchwider audience.
Consequently, they get moredownloads, you know, and that's

(01:13:42):
the way it was.
And he just said it was anightmare.
And so then instead of havingthis network of people working
together to cross promote orwhatever it was, you had a bunch
of people complaining about eachother and hating each other.
And so he's, he doesn't talkabout it a lot, but when he
talks about the early days ofpod show, he'll be like, Oh, it

(01:14:03):
was just a nightmare.
So yeah, Yeah, let's see.
Here he says, we'll have to talkabout a program dedicated to the
benefits or pitfalls ofnetworks.
20 years this year.
20 years, holy cow.
It's not all roses andchocolate.
I've made it where the networkdoes the work when the people on
it don't want to, for the mostpart.

(01:14:24):
We will have to have you comeon.
Gordon would also share verydeal-oriented stuff about the
copyright and the details not tobe taken on any network.
Yeah, that's the thing that itgets kind of tricky.
Much like we always talk aboutwhen you have a co-host, be sure
to talk about, have that awkwardconversation about who owns
what.
But then also when you get intoa network, that gets kind of

(01:14:47):
icky and you just got to knowwhat you're getting into because
otherwise, you know, it getskind of, it can get kind of icky
that way.
Another oldie but goodie that wecan throw in here.
I'm looking up, I'm like, allright, we're almost at time.
We got time for this one.
Best way to share links fromwhen and where?
I just wanted to survey peopleon if they do any personal

(01:15:09):
advertising for their shows, howthey share links to it.
I've done some sharing throughDiscord and usually share a
Spotify link because that's whatI listen to most podcasts on.
That is definitely going to be aquestion of the month on the
School of Podcasting is not howmany, but what percentage of
your audience is on Spotify.

(01:15:30):
Because I am here to tell youit's either hit or miss.
It's either 80%, or six.
It's, you know, I think thisshow is probably like eight,
something like that.
But anyway, he says, my podcastis available most everywhere.
So I'm confused about if there'sa preferred way on the receiving
end.
If someone shared a link to apodcast with you, bonus question

(01:15:51):
is where people share links anddo personal advertising besides
shouting out into the void.
Not sure what he means by that.
But for me personally, Alwaysshare a link to the episode on
your website.
Why?
Because depending on how manyother people then share that
same link, that can boost yourSEO.
And then on that episode orsomewhere on that site when they

(01:16:13):
land, have links to at leastApple and Spotify.
You might want to throw inOvercast and Pocket Cast.
But that way the audience is incharge of where they listen.
So many people used to shareApple links online.
And until about, I don't know,5, 10 years ago, if you shared
an Apple link to somebody inEurope where 70% of them are

(01:16:35):
using an Android phone, it wascompletely useless.
So always share a link to yoursite.
Jim, what do you do when you'resharing links?

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:44):
You know, I like to get them on a landing page.
I mean, that's for the mostpart.
I want to bring them back to thesite.
I want them, you know, you spendso much time on those silly show
notes that if you are going toshare a link with them, And
then, you know, then on eachlanding page, I try to make sure
I have all the appropriate, youknow, if, hey, subscribe here,
go there.
If you're going to, you know,make it easy for Spotify, even

(01:17:07):
though the numbers are small,make it easy.
Make it easy for your Applepodcast friends to have a button
there or whatever so they caneasily subscribe to it.
But I want to bring them back.
You know, I want to bring themback to the page.
I want them to come.
If they're going to click onsomething, I want them to come
back and see some things.
That's what I'm trying to do.
Is it the most successful way ofdoing it?

(01:17:28):
I don't know.
But it's what I like.
That's where I want them to be.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:32):
Well, and there are a few of these websites that
probably begin with pod.
Like pod follower.
I'm just making that up.
Pod like me.
Pod something.
And they'll be like, oh, just goto...
podalicious.io slash my website,whatever.
And I'm like, number one, thatwebsite's going to go out of

(01:17:53):
business in about five yearsbecause it's free and free
business is not a good businessmodel.
Number two, why are you notreinforcing your brand?
Why aren't you saying, hey, goto askthepodcastcoach.com slash
follow where all the buttons arethere and you can subscribe on
whatever app you want becauseespecially if you're linking to
that stuff, And so for 150episodes, you've been linking to

(01:18:17):
Podalicious, and thenPodalicious goes away because it
turns out making links forpeople is not really a great
business model if you're notcharging for it, and nobody will
pay for it because, hey, I coulddo this on my own website for
free.
Now you've got 150 links thatare dead, and that's not good
for SEO either, and it'sannoying for everybody.

(01:18:37):
So that would be my advice onthat, and I'm going to Do a
quick scroll here through thechat room.
I don't see any other questions.
And so with that, talking aboutnot wasting people's time, we're
going to get out four minutesearly.
Holy cow.
Are you kidding me?
Yes, we are.
It is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:55):
So

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:57):
Jim, what is

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:58):
coming up on Home Gadget Geeks?
TJ Huddleston from hometech.fmis with me this week.
Talk a little gardening tech.
And so we spend some time.
It's amazing the technology thatjust, you know, if you're a
raised bed gardener, if you'vegot, you know, if you've got
hanging plants, if you're doingdrip irrigation.
All that stuff has automationavailable for it now, which is

(01:19:21):
super cool, including all themanifolds for your irrigation,
if you're doing it that way.
So, T.J.
and I spent some time talkingabout that, as well as a few
other topics.
It's available today,HomeGadgetGeeks.com.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:34):
Dan says, this is a great show this week.
Thanks, Dan.
Every now and then, we dosomething good.
Who knows?
And then Lane says, we all knowDave Jackson owns all those
domains anyway.
I went and counted over 300...
Domains.
Many of them now are for sale ifyou go to schoolofpodcasting.com
slash domains.
I'm getting rid of a lot ofthose because that's just

(01:19:55):
ridiculous.
On the School of Podcasting, Imentioned it earlier, Thomas
Umstadt Jr.
from Marvel?
No, Novel Marketing because he'sa book guy.
Novelmarketing.com is coming onand he's a guy that's, I love
him because he's kind of a nerd.
He's definitely a mad scientistand And so as he was trying
YouTube and trying new things,he kept great notes.

(01:20:17):
His pitch was amazing.
He sent like graphs and chartsof here's what's working, here's
what's not working.
And I was like, oh, dude, youare definitely coming on the
show to talk about this.
So we're talking some real lifeexamples of what happens when
you do YouTube.
Is it worth it?
He is making some money.
The question, is he profitable?

(01:20:38):
Ooh, that's the question thatI'm going to leave you with.
And we'll see you next week withanother episode of Ask the
Podcast Coach.
If you're watching on YouTube,you know, like, subscribe, and
ring the bell.
Thanks, everybody.
We'll see you next week.

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