Can You Make Your Association Members Happy In Divisive Times?

Fresh off the heels of the US Presidential Election, they explore how values—not demographics—drive behavior and decision-making, even in the association space. From origin stories in the advertising world to actionable insights on bridging divides, this episode offers a thought-provoking look at how associations can better connect with their members by focusing on what truly matters. 

In this timely episode of Association Chat, KiKi L'Italien sits down with David Allison, creator of the Valuegraphics Database, to discuss the importance of understanding core human values in a polarized world.

Tune in for a candid conversation that couldn't be more relevant right now. ​

Episode Transcript

KiKi (00:00):
What's your origin story?
How did you get here?

David (00:03):
how far back do you want me to go?

KiKi (00:05):
Um, when you were five years old?
No,

David (00:07):
here

KiKi (00:07):
we are talking about value graphics.
But you didn't start out that wayand was not what you were You
were not preaching that story.
In the beginning,

David (00:17):
I was an ad guy.
Uh, I, I grew up, uh, when thattelevision show called 30, something
was like top of the charts.
And I just thought that looks likethe coolest possible job in the world.
And so I went to school and tried toget myself into working in an ad agency
because I thought it was all aboutstaying up really, really late the
night before the big creative break.
Pitch and throwing pencils in theceiling and eating too much pizza and

(00:39):
then winning the pitch and going out andgetting drunk with your friends from work.
And that's what it just seemedlike a glamorous career.
Uh, and it turns out it wasn'tso much of a glamorous career.
You got paid for

KiKi (00:51):
sometimes.

David (00:53):
Uh, so fast forward through realizing that I'd made
a terrible, terrible mistake.
Uh, and so I thought that, uh, the nextbest thing I could do to get myself out
of working in ad agencies was to startmy own cause I could got to be more fun
to be the boss than just an employee.
And, uh, that lasted for about 10 years.

(01:14):
And then I sold that company to managementand it was during that 10 years that I
started to notice something and it was.
A repeating pattern and it had to dowith the kind of ad agency it was.
I was able to, uh, we, we only workedwith, um, large scale real estate
developers, so like resorts andcondominium towers and downtown Gotham
city and all that kind of stuff.

(01:35):
Uh, and the nice thing aboutthat is that it has a beginning
and a middle and an end.
Like in the course of a.
You know, a year and a half, you'vecreated a campaign out of thin air.
You've gone out there andspend a bunch of money.
And then you get to see thepeople who bought the condos or
the resort homes or whatever.
So, you know, if you're doing advertisingfor Coca Cola, it just keeps going
on and on and on and on forever.
Uh, but this was like a constantsort of experimental start, middle,

(01:58):
and start, middle, and, and so Isaw patterns and the pattern I saw.
Was that the way we were definingpeople and talking about people, uh,
was with demographics and who are weto, who are we doing this campaign for?
It's for, um, you know, uh, 25 to 34 yearold women who have a household income
of X and they're married and they have akid and they were white collar, whatever

(02:19):
the demographic description might be.
And if we were lucky, we had a fewpsychographic facts about them.
Is this a first home, a second home?
Are they leasing an office for themselves?
Is it for all that kind of stuff?
Uh, and then we go spend amillion bucks and get them to buy
or lease or rent these things.
And then I get to stand in a roomwith them and look around and go,
uh, wow, this is who responds.

(02:40):
This does

KiKi (02:41):
not match.
This is not my beautiful house.

David (02:46):
This is not my beautiful car.
Persona.
Yeah.
Um, who are you people?
Thank you for coming and makingus look great, but who the heck
are you and how'd you get here?
Uh, we, we didn't think about you.
We didn't make creator for you.
We didn't buy in your channelsand yet, and yet here you are.
And it happened overand over and over again.
So when I sold the company, I thought, youknow, I'm going to kind of poke around,

(03:07):
see if I can't figure that out because my,you know, thumbnail sense of it was, it
was about 10 or 15 percent of the peoplein the room matched the target audience
that we'd spent all that money against.
So that's a massivewaste of time and effort.
If we're talking.
To these folks and only the, youknow, 85 percent of them are not the
people we thought we were talking to.

(03:27):
So it's getting long and boring now,but, um, it quickly go into behavioral
science and you see that the onlyreason those people were in a room.
In fact, the only reason any of usare in any room metaphorically or real
is because it aligns with our values.
We look at behavioral sciences, you know,like neurology, psychology, psychiatry,

(03:50):
sociology, they all, they all fight likecats and dogs about what makes people.
do stuff.
Um, but they agree that the way thehuman brain operates is to figure
out what option is in front of methat best aligns with my values.
And that's the one I'mgoing to go and pick.
And even if you don't knowyou're doing it, you're doing

(04:10):
it thousands of times a day.
In fact, here's the big news.
It's the only way.
Our brains know how to make anydecision of any size is right, which
option aligns with their values.

KiKi (04:21):
You talk about this and I think it's fascinating because it's easy.
It's easy to just say, um, you know,the common question I've heard because
now I've, I've been in, uh, Rooms withyou when you're talking and then I hear
people talk to you and ask you questionsover and over it's like Well, you know,
there are a lot of different types ofvalues What do you mean by values and

(04:42):
it goes into into that sort of thing?
Yeah, but um, I just think it's it'sreally incredibly interesting because
um, we do get this idea that we can kindof sum up people on on these different
um Um, data points that it turns outreally aren't the, the, you know,

(05:04):
aren't really leading to a lot morethan just, you know, when they graduate
from high school doesn't really turnout to have a whole lot to do with, um,
things like what they're going to bedrawn to, why they want to be in that
room, why they want to, you know, I'mgoing to be a part of your association.
And so, I mean,

David (05:23):
just think about it.
Think about it like this.
You have a room full of, uh,professional white collar women who
earn, uh, at least a 200, 000 a yearand, uh, went to college and have,
uh, uh, yeah, white collar career.
So you have a room full of them.
There's a thousand of them in a room.
How similar do you thinkthey are to each other?

KiKi (05:44):
Yeah.
Hopefully not.
Hopefully they aren't.
Right?
They're not going to be very similar.
It's going to be all over the map.
Right?
There's going

David (05:50):
to be all kinds of different personalities and
things that get them excited.
And because the only thing theyhave in common is a couple of
demographic characteristics.
Yeah.
And yet.
That would be enough of a targetaudience description to go and spend
a bunch of money and try and get themto do something you want them to do.

KiKi (06:06):
You have a really great statistic that you share that
is, and I don't know what it is.
I don't have it in front of me.
I imagine that you've got itthat you can pull up right away.
Yeah.
It's the statistic that you share.
It's, um, about the percentage.
If you're just looking at thedemographic of like age and how, how.

(06:28):
Right on you're going to be how onon target and effective you're going
to be with your messaging Versus ifyou know their values, is that right?
I think I'm

David (06:38):
you got it.
You got it You got it, and it's shocking.
It's shocking So first off the waywe got this is we've gone out and
talked to a million people aroundthe world in 152 different languages
about who they are and what makesthem tick and what their values are.
And the way we collected all that data,uh, is super accurate proportionately
and representationally so that it'skind of like we have our own little Lego

(07:00):
model of the population of the world.
So we can slice and dice it inall kinds of different ways.
And one way we can doit is demographically.
And when we did that, when we went,okay, cool, we got all this data and
we know all this stuff about all thesepeople, 180 countries, 150 languages.
Um, and, uh, what happensif we just look at Gen Z?
How similar are they to each other?
Cause there's a lot of people outthere right now trying to convince us
that Gen Z all like this, or they'reall going to behave that way, or the

(07:23):
way to get them to join a professionalassociation is to do this stuff as if
they're some kind of giant hive mind.
Uh, so Gen Z.
Like every other demographic cohortout there, age, income, gender,
uh, gender, uh, marital status,number of kids, education, all those
labels we're all familiar with.
Anybody in any one of those buckets,they resemble each other on average, 10.

(07:46):
5 percent of the time.
So that means, yeah,it varies a little bit.
Gen Z's a little higher, boomers alittle lower, women, men, you know,
different, but it's all averages out.
Let's just round it off and say 10%.
So demographic groupsare 10 percent similar.
And yet we believe the way we operateinside our boardrooms is that somehow
if we understand the demographics of agroup of people, we know who they are.

(08:10):
We only know that with anylevel of accuracy is about 10%.
We're 90 percent wrong withall of our assumptions about
people based on demographics.
So anytime you see one ofthose surveys coming out that
goes, Gen Z all wants this.
It's not, can I swear?
It's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
It is bullshit.

KiKi (08:29):
It is total bullshit.
And I feel that when I see it, it's like,yeah, uh, that's not how they all feel.
They all, they're just,and it seems ridiculous.
And yet we see those headlines.
I see them all the time.
The headlines, the names for sessionsall the time is that sort of thing.

David (08:46):
And, you know, there's a lot of speakers out there and, you know,
I do a lot of, Public speaking.
So I have no ill will towards speakers,but, um, and they don't like it when
I say this, these particular speakers,because there's a lot of speakers out
there who make a living running aroundsaying, I'm a Gen Z expert, you know,
for a long time, it was, I'm a millennialexpert and there's consultants who go

(09:07):
into companies and go, I'm going totell you everything you need to know
about Gen Z or about millennials.
You can't.
Uh, they're, they're, you know, Iforget the number off the top of my
head, but there's like 40 or 50 millionGen Z in the United States alone.
Forget about the rest of theworld, just in the United States.
And we think that somehow they'reall going to be, uh, like,

(09:27):
they're all going to be similarto each other, that many people.
So, you know, people will arguewith me and go, well, yeah, but
they're way more technologicallysavvy than people who came before.
I'll go.
Sure, in their own way, but you know, mybaby boomer, uh, friends, their version of
being technologically savvy was they hadthe first microwave on the block, right?

(09:50):
That was the technology that they hadavailable and some of them needed to
be the first one with a microwave.
And today, some of these Gen Z's are gotto be the first one with the new iPhone.
So really what's different islike the toys have changed.

KiKi (10:04):
Yeah.

David (10:05):
You know, the, the, the environmental conditions are
different, but what's drivingpeople, who they really are on the
inside, it's the same, it's the same.

KiKi (10:13):
Yeah.
And when you get to that, that's when,and, and this is like, you know, plot
twist, you know, it's like you get, youget to that and it's like, Oh, guess what?
It's not about when yougraduated from high school.
It's not about.
Uh, anything to do with that?
Maybe we're all more aligned accordingto what is driving us in this values.
And when you put the values number,that, that percentage in there,

(10:37):
you get a lot closer, right?
When you didn't give youa lot more effective, you

David (10:41):
didn't.
So here's the other number.
So if we look at peopledemographically, you only get 10
percent similarity in a group.
And that means, by the way, if youstack a bunch of those groups on
top of each other, like women about10 percent similar, earn 150, 000
a year, about 10 percent similar,um, white collar job about 10%.
That's like just three groups of peoplestacked on top of each other to a bigger

(11:01):
group of people who agree with eachother about 10 percent of the time.
So that's, that's, that'sall that is right now.
If you look at it from a valuesperspective and say, what if we
put people and forget about it.
Their age and income and gender and allthat other, those typical old fashioned
labels and instead put people in groupsof that are based on values, similarity,

(11:22):
then how often do they agree witheach other on all the different things
that happen in the course of a life?
And it goes as high as 89%.
So it's almost a complete inverse.
Here's a cool way to think about it.
If you've got a 1 budget and you spendthat money trying to get people to
do stuff based on what you think, youknow, about them demographically, the
best you can hope for is a 10 percentreturn on investment on that dollar.

(11:44):
You got a 10 cent dollar.
Uh, but if you do it based onvalues, you got a 90 cent dollar.
Same dollar.
It's so good.
Now even, even, even if that 90,even if that number of 89 percent
is, is, is half wrong, whichit isn't, it's plus or minus 3.
5 percent wrong, 95 percent level ofconfidence, but let's just pretend

(12:06):
our data was totally a ridiculouslyhorrible data, uh, and it was only
half correct and it was only 40%.
It's still four times betterthan using demographics, right?
Yeah.
So

KiKi (12:20):
it's kind of important to know, kind of good that we, we
shifted and we're looking at values

David (12:25):
now

KiKi (12:26):
and okay, so, and now you are working with the American Society
of Association executives finallydoing some amazing stuff with them.
Right.
And so, um, I want people to understandhow you're beginning to engage with the

(12:46):
American Society of Association Executivesspecifically this year and why this year
is so critical because it's November.

David (12:55):
Yeah, November's a big month in 2024 in the United States of America.
If anybody doesn't know thatthey've been hiding under a rock.

KiKi (13:02):
Yes.

David (13:03):
Uh, so earlier this year, the ASAE asked me to come and speak
to the Executive Leadership Forum,which this year was held in Toronto.
Uh, and uh, they, uh, had a greatidea for a topic that our values
data would be able to address.
And that was how do we help associationleaders navigate some of the very

(13:26):
uncivil discourse, uh, that goes oninside associations these days and
that goes on inside society in theUnited States these days as Things
seem to become more and more dividedand divisive, uh, along party lines.
Uh, and association leaders arecontinually finding themselves in this
sort of role of being a referee andit's not in their job description.

(13:48):
Frankly, it's notsomething they trained for.
It's not something that theyhave a lot of experience with.
I mean, every association leader, uh,knows how to, um, uh, referee the normal
day to day kinds of disagreements thatcome up in a boardroom, uh, level with
their, um, and those sorts of things.
Uh, but this is, this is different.

(14:08):
This is a whole new level of divisiveness.
That's not even about thebusiness of the association.
It's about the business of the UnitedStates of America, uh, and where
people are at at this moment in time.
So what we did is we went out andprofiled using our, our methodology.
We went out and profiled,uh, close to 2000 people.

(14:29):
across the United States, who aremembers of associations who have
been members for at least fiveyears, who volunteered at least once.
So we know they're actively engaged asmembers of these associations, uh, and
who are, um, uh, who we asked whetherthey were on the left or the right.
Are they on team red or team blue?
Um, and then we were able to compareand contrast what their values are.

(14:53):
And the way we do that is we takethe responses from those couple of
thousand people that we talked to.
Uh, and then we compare themagainst the million surveys we've
done in our benchmark database.
There's 152 languages and hundredsof millions of data points in there.
So when we go and talk to those coupleof thousand people, and this is the
same thing we do for every keynote,no matter who we're talking to or what
we're talking about is go and talk toa couple of thousand people who fit a

(15:16):
Listen to what they have to say, butmore importantly, pull the lookalike
data out of this massive, massive globalfirst ever database of what we all care
about and what our values are and say,Oh, you know what people like that?
People like those ones we just talked to.
Here's what we know about them.
Here's all this great stuff that wecan now use to understand how to engage
and motivate and inspire those folks.

(15:39):
And so that's what we did.
And we found, um, these three values thatare incredibly important and common across
both sides of this political divide.
And in this keynote, uh, in Toronto,and then we're repeating this for a
different select group of folks whoare going to be in Vegas at IMAX,

(16:01):
we're going to talk about thesethree power values, we call them.
I

KiKi (16:05):
love that.
I hadn't, Oh, nice.
Yeah.

David (16:09):
They're, they're super, um, they're super powerful, right?
Remember when we started talking todaythat, uh, the only way the human brain
knows how to make decisions aboutanything is based on values alignment.
So if you know the values of agroup of people, you know how
they're going to think and decideand behave about everything.

(16:31):
And then your job as aassociation leader or.
Anybody who's trying to engage andmotivate and influence a group of
people is to just be the optionthat gives them values alignment
and their brains will kick in andgo, whoop, that's the thing for me.
So instead of guessing, wow, I thinkthis might help us get people where we
need them to be, or I think this mighthelp us tone down some of the rest.

(16:55):
We can say, no, this is the data.
Here's the stuff you need tosay and do to get folks to do
the things you want them to do.

KiKi (17:02):
I mean, this, this sounds like incredibly, I can't imagine being an
association professional out therelistening to this right now and not
just being on the edge of my seatgoing, tell me, tell me, tell me,
tell me what are the three, tell me,tell me, tell me now, tell me now.
You know, so like, are you, are you goingto tell us, are you going to tell us,

David (17:22):
tell you, I'm going to tell you.
Uh, that's good.
But first, let me sing a littlebit from the Mikado, or Pirate of
Penzance, or like just a littlemusical interlude before we begin.
Uh, uh, so yeah, let's do that.
The first, the first one, uh, which,you remember, there's 56 values

(17:44):
that could have been on this list.
And, um, Each of those 56 valueshas hundreds of different meanings.
So after talking to a million people,we figured out there's only 56 buttons.
You need to learn how to push.
And only some of them are going to applyin any given situation, but they all mean
different things to different people.
So I'm going to give you a littlebit of context before I tell you what
these three power values are, right?
Oh, you're

KiKi (18:04):
such a tease, David.
Oh my gosh.
No, no, I want the

David (18:08):
nuances here and that these aren't just like big clunky words that
we made up and you know, we, we didn'teven ask anybody about their values
and those million people we talked to.
We asked them about their life.
And we listen to what they say andwe listen and we see the patterns
and the know, I would go, Oh,look, all of these people are
reacting to the world in this way.
And, and some in this way and somein this way, and there seems to be 56

(18:29):
things that drive us to do what we do.
But for each of those 56 things, likethe value of belonging, for example,
which is the number one, most importantvalue in the United States, more
important than family, by the way.
There's 912 definitions of belonging.
So when we see in our studies, a valuepop up as being over index, more important

(18:50):
for the group we're studying, we can alsosee exactly what does it mean to them?
What are the conditions that needto be present in order for them
to feel like values alignment isthere and get them to move in the
direction we want them to move.
So all that being said, here'sthe first value of the 56 values.
The value is loyalty.
Now hundreds of different meaningsfor loyalty But what the particular

(19:11):
meaning for this group of people forfolks who've been in an association
for at least five years volunteered atleast once It's about People they have
already had a shared experience with.
It's not loyalty to a brand, or an idea,or a party, or a routine, or a family
member, or um, any of those other waysthat you might interpret the word loyalty.

(19:34):
It's about loyalty towards people they'vealready shared an experience with.
So if you're an association leader andyou're trying to build this into the
way that your association is perceivedand the way that you are serving your
members so that they feel aligned,both sides, red and blue, feel aligned
around this, and they don't want todisrupt that because the association

(19:58):
is, Delivering common ground for them.
Uh, there's all kinds ofdifferent ways you can do it.
One thought starter idea.
And please, anybody listening,uh, remember that I'm not
an association leader.
And so these ideas I'm throwing out, orthis is like what David thinks is cool.
And you're, you'reabsolutely allowed to go.

(20:19):
That's the most ridiculousthing I've ever heard.
But I see where you're going with that.
And we could do this instead.
So that's the whole point ofsharing these ideas, right?
So loyalty towards people you've alreadyshared an experience with, uh, why not
experiential professional development?
Let's put professional developmentprograms together that aren't
just sitting in a room thatare, uh, go out and do stuff.

(20:42):
And learn how to do those things whileyou're having an experience together
because now you're baking loyalty intothe membership who are going through those
professional development programs, right?
I'm

KiKi (20:55):
thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking about.
What I was talking about earlier, David,the association chat road trip to ASC
annual that we just did for, I mean,association chats, not admittedly,
not an association, but has membersand for those fans and members of

(21:18):
association chat that were on that.
road trip bus.
That's six and a half hours of allkinds of experience that we had shared.

David (21:28):
You told jokes, you saw stuff.
You didn't never forget.
We made

KiKi (21:32):
handshakes.
We had a handshake.
We had our own secret handshake.

David (21:36):
There you go.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
So for the association leaders whoare listening to this, figure out ways
that professional development can be anexperience because that will trigger.
The value of loyalty, which willwork for both sides of the house.

KiKi (21:52):
And

David (21:53):
the more of that they feel when they're interacting with and being
part of, uh, what it means to be amember of your association, the more
of that they feel, the less likelythey're going to want to have a fight.
The less likely it is that they're goingto have those, um, uh, disruptive, uh,
divisive, um, issues pop up around theboardroom table or at the lunch meeting

(22:16):
or whatever it is that we're talking aboutbecause you're delivering on something
that's incredibly important to both sides.
And so this is sacred space for them.
Now this is common ground.
They don't, I don't want this to be aplace where I end up having those because
neither side wants to have fights.
Nobody, no human wants to fight.
Right.
So if you can be the place that's safe,that's giving them both what they're

(22:37):
looking for, well, the chances of thesethings turning into bad moments, uh,
becomes less and less and less and less.
So professional development,but again, the same disclaimer,
remember, that's just my idea.
Anything else you can come upwith that's about giving people an
opportunity to experience thingstogether because it will trigger loyalty.

(22:59):
Is going to be, uh, uh, magic.
It's going to be magic.
And what we've done there, that processof saying, okay, the values data point
is loyalty to people I've already sharedan experience with that's the data.
Now, from there, we came up with one idea.
So kind of that leap to, Oh, ifthat's true, then we could do this.
We call that values thinking.
It's kind of like design thinking wetake a design thinking is a way of making

(23:23):
decisions where you keep design at thecenter of the decision making process.
That's what values thinking is.
It's a way of making decisions and comingup with ideas that keep values at the
center of that decision making process.
So these other two values thatI'm going to share with you.
Same thing.
Think about, okay, if that'strue, I heard David's Stupid idea.
But here's what we've got.
What else we could do with that.

(23:45):
I get where he's going.
I see what he's trying.
He's well intentioned.
He's trying to help.
Uh, his ideas are not great,but, um, we see what he's doing.
Maybe

KiKi (23:54):
they're great though, David.
Maybe they're great.
Okay.
They probably are.
I just, I

David (23:59):
think it's awfully courageous of me to get up in front of any
of the audiences I talked to andsay, here's what you should do.
You should do this.
I don't know what it is theirlives are all about, right?
So, uh, so yeah, they're just meant tobe, um, illustrative ideas, we'll say.
Yes.

KiKi (24:14):
I appreciate that.
So we have number one, loyalty.
What about number two?
Number two,

David (24:20):
personal responsibility.

KiKi (24:21):
Um,

David (24:23):
uh, these are people who like to, um, feel like they're
the ones getting stuff done.
And the specific definition for thatvalue for this group of people is personal
responsibility, getting things done.
Cause it makes them feel stable.
If I get stuff done, my boat's not tippy.
If I get stuff done, the thingsthat need to be done, then

(24:46):
everything's going to just be fine.
And we're all going to move alongat a nice stable pace and nothing's
going to be surprising and there'snot going to be any craziness.

KiKi (24:54):
Oh, they're trying to manage, they're trying to like balance,
provide themselves with stability.
They see that throughpersonal responsibility.
Okay.
Tell me how this plays out.
This means that they,they're doing something.
If they do something that makes them feelthis sense of personal responsibility,

(25:16):
like they're masters of their own domainand some sort, they have some sort of,
uh, Some sort of hold on creating morestability in their world because of this.
You

David (25:26):
got it.
So anything, including your associationthat gives them the ability to feel
like, well, this is a, this is athing that makes me feel responsible.
And I see how this is helping mebe more personally responsible.
And I like that becauseit makes me real stable.
So.
Here's my idea.
Um, I, I, it's not the snappiestname for an idea ever, but I call it

(25:47):
the practical, tactical, practical,tactical, actionable, social series.
So we're always sitting around inevery organization trying, well, what
should we be putting out on social?
What should we bepushing out on Instagram?
What do we put on LinkedIn?
Why not push out a social series?
Uh, that's about how the organization,the association has make stuff happen.

(26:12):
Uh, and because you're a member ofthis association, you have access to
this tool or that tool or this thingor that thing, but all of these things
are really about empowering you to.
To get stuff done.
Here's an example of here's Ted, Ted cameand took our course on whatever, whatever.
And as a result of that,Ted made this happen.
Hey, Ted, he got stuff done.
Uh, so just be the source of,uh, stories, uh, that relate to.

(26:39):
People getting stuff done andfeeling stable as a result.
You're you, you provided the learning,the development, the opportunities, the,
the, the, the networking, whatever it is.
Uh, and then that becomes the sourcefor your social stories, uh, for
a series on practical, tactical,actionable, social, uh, stories.

KiKi (26:56):
I mean, how many times have you had to practice saying that?
Because I have to tell youthat I would not even dare.
I wouldn't even put that.
I'd just be like, no,I'm scratching that out.
We're calling it something else.

David (27:08):
Now that I'm looking at it on my screen here, it's, it's
PTA, it's the PTA social series.

KiKi (27:13):
Different kind, but okay.

David (27:15):
Different kind of PTA.
Yeah.
So there's, there's, um, there's loyaltyand there's personal responsibility.
Now, the third one.

KiKi (27:23):
Okay.
I'm very curious aboutwhat the third one will be.

David (27:26):
Yeah.
Uh, this one is, um, it's interesting.
Uh, we don't see thisone show up very much.
Now I want to make the point here that,uh, as a keynote speaker and as a, as
a research company, we've profiled,um, We're getting close to a thousand
now, different organizations, differentkinds of people for different purposes.

(27:47):
Sometimes it's a leadership keynote.
Sometimes it's a sales keynote.
It's a employee engagement, workplaceculture, all kinds of different purposes.
Everything from wall street hedgefund managers to, um, uh, doctors
who, uh, work in, uh, malaria andother tropical disease, everything you
can possibly imagine we've touched.
And this one value, comes up so rarelyI can, I can count on my hand, uh, on

(28:11):
one hand, how many times I've seen this.
So this is quite unique.
It's the value of independence.
Uh, and the exact definition for thisvalue for this group, uh, is there
want to be independent, whatever offersthem this ability, this, this value
of independence, but it's because theydon't want anybody or anything having

(28:33):
any unnecessary control over their lives.

KiKi (28:36):
Interesting.

David (28:38):
Uh, don't tell me what to do.
Don't put me in a situationwhere some expectation is there
around what I'm supposed to do.
I'm the boss of me.
Uh, and I don't know, you know, I'm oftenmystified about why do certain values
show up for certain groups of people?

(28:58):
Sometimes it's obvious.
Um, You know, uh, for example, eventplanners, uh, they have an overindexed
value around financial security and lookat the budgets that they have to manage.
Look at all the budgetary detail.
They love the idea of being secure.
So it's an obvious connection for me.

(29:20):
He's like, well, of courseyou have financial security.
You're an event planner.
It's a big part of what you do.
It's why you chose what you do.
This one I'm like, wow, independence.
Uh, and remember this is accurate enough.
For a PhD, this is like plus or minus 3.
5%, 95 percent confidence.
So something about people who belongto professional associations have
been in a membership for at leastfive years and have volunteered at

(29:42):
least once in the United States ofAmerica, something about their over
indexing on the value of independence.
And it's all about avoidingunnecessary control over their lives.

KiKi (29:52):
That's so interesting.
I'm so curious about the why andlike, Making those connections.

David (29:59):
Yeah.
So

KiKi (30:00):
yeah,

David (30:02):
we could have a whole podcast about that.
Um, but I'm just going to seeif I have the, um, uh, I do.
So independence in the U S generalpopulation is down in the 20th percentile.
It's like only important to about20 percent of the population.
Uh, but for this population, It'simportant, uh, depending on whether

(30:24):
we're looking at team red or teamblue, they're pretty darn close to
each other, but basically they'rehovering around the 60th percentile.
So that's a 40 point spread.
That's a massive Delta between these two.
So compared to everybody elsein the United States, people who
belong to associations for at leastfive years, no volunteer at least
once it's insanely more important.
The amount of independence thatthey want to have in their life.

KiKi (30:47):
It's so, it's so wild.
I mean, I, I like, I'm thinking aboutthe people I, I know who I've met
are, who are members and the differentassociations I've worked for in the past.
And.
I can kind of, that makes sense, youknow, when I think about it, I can't
think of contradictions to it, youknow, as far as, but I mean, I mean,

(31:11):
I'm just, I have to, like, I'm going tosit and think about this for a while.
So what does that mean forhow we apply it though?
Like my

David (31:19):
idea there was, um, a thing I've called the disruptor awards.
Uh, and again, you're allowedto say this is ridiculous, but I
see where you're going with that.
If there's this fierce sense ofindependence, this fierce sense
of don't tell me what to do.
I'm going to do it my own way.
Then every association I've ever been apart of, they always have an award show.

(31:41):
There's always a, a bigannual general meeting.
Why isn't one of the awards thatyou, you have the whole membership
vote on is who's the person in thisorganization who's been the biggest
disruptor who's done it their own way.
I love

KiKi (31:56):
that so much.

David (31:58):
Let's honor it.
Let's make a big deal out of it.
It should be the sourceof a social theories.
It should do everythingyou can just like make it.
Part of how people see thisassociation in their lives.
This is the place that celebratesour independence to the point
where we're picking out themost independent as this of all,

(32:18):
the biggest independent testof all, uh, and giving them a
trophy at the end of the year.
Wow.

KiKi (32:25):
Yeah.
These are, these people are peoplewho want, they want their, they want.
Uh, their personal responsibility,they, to like have things be, to feel
more stable, they care about loyalty.
Um, with the people that they'vealready had a shared experience
with, and they also are fiercelyindependent because they don't want

(32:49):
unnecessarily control over their lives.
That's a, that is aninteresting group of values,

David (32:57):
you

KiKi (32:57):
know,

David (32:58):
now that's just three, uh, you know, and in the space of a keynote,
that's all that we have time to share.
Um, there's this, there's a list ofabout 10 or 12 that are, you know,
Not equally, but those are the onesI chose that I thought were the most
powerful and interesting to talk about.
But there's another bunch, um, in therethat, uh, could also be used as, um,

(33:18):
thought starters and the basis forvalues, thinking exercises to tackle,
uh, challenges and achieve goals.
But, uh, those three area pretty darn good start.
You know, here's a fun.
Uh,
I don't know if I shouldtell you who this is or not.
I'm not gonna, because I don't knowif they would be upset with me, but a

(33:40):
very large association, um, has saw mespeak, um, and was so taken with this
notion of values, driving behaviors anddecisions, and it resonated so much for
them that they've engaged me to come in,uh, in the new year and sit with their
board of directors and some committees.

(34:00):
And they have one annual event that isa, the most important event for them.
And it's a very big event.
Uh, and we're going to rip that eventapart from start to finish from marketing
and advertising to registration,to programming, to everything.
And we're going to build the wholething based on a profile that
will develop of the values ofthe people who go to that event.

(34:23):
So it'll be a values driven from.
Tip to tip.
Oh my gosh.
Uh, you have

KiKi (34:27):
to pro, you have to promise me that you're going to tell me all about
it after, like, you'll come, you'lltell me how it went, how successful
it was, what, well, you know what?
It's a great case

David (34:39):
study.
And, and as long as, as long as my clientis willing to, uh, they come on too.
Yeah.
They can come and, and we'll share,we'll talk about it together.
Yeah.

KiKi (34:47):
Yes.
Well, okay.
So before I let you go, you know.
I want to be able to tell people,uh, some things that they, you
know, basically some insights thatthey're only going to get here.
That is going to be super special.
And I know that, you weretelling me some pretty, I was
calling them spicy, some, um,

David (35:09):
things

KiKi (35:09):
like what are some of these little interesting data points that
you can share with me that might beuseful to, Oh, say the association
chat entire audience here.

David (35:23):
Sure.
I'm like rubbing my

KiKi (35:24):
hands together.
If you're hearing a weird sound, I'mrubbing my hands together in greedy, in
greedy, , contemplation and expectationand anticipation as I'm waiting.

David (35:34):
So here's what happens when I've talked about this before that in order
to get ready for a keynote, we go outand talk to a couple of thousand people
and ask them some questions and then.
extrapolate the data from thebenchmark database and say,
here's what we know about peoplelike that around their values.
But since we're out talking to acouple thousand people, which is a
statistically representative sample of aparticular audience that we're studying,
we ask them some other questions too.

(35:56):
Uh, and so in this case we asked a coupleof questions that are more psychographic
in nature, not value graphic in nature.
And we're able to.
Learn some other thingsabout these people.
So one of the things we always ask iswhat are your preferred media channels?
So talking to a couple thousand folksacross the United States who have been
input with an association at least fiveyears and volunteered at least once.
What do you think their number one mostpreferred media channel is for hearing

(36:21):
information about their association?

KiKi (36:23):
Oh, um,

David (36:27):
you won't guess.
It's a trick question.

KiKi (36:31):
They don't, they don't care.

David (36:33):
No, not at all.

KiKi (36:34):
What is it?

David (36:34):
One 70 percent of this audience said Facebook

KiKi (36:39):
actually based on the association chat audience, not necessarily
surprised, you know, that's where Ihave more engagement for, for the chat.
Yeah.

David (36:49):
Facebook then LinkedIn and by just a, just a hair.
So they're almost tied neck andneck, Facebook and LinkedIn.
And then the next one downwas personal recommendations.
So word of mouth gets way up there.
So if I was an associationleader, I'd say, okay, cool.
This has helped me rationalize themoney I'm spending on social media,

(37:09):
engagement, and, and continuing toput our messages and our stories out
there on Facebook and LinkedIn, uh,Instagram way down the list, by the way.
So we're really just talkingabout Facebook and LinkedIn.
Um, but personal recommendations,networking, professional recommendations,
uh, those are in a clump.
Those are the next thing.
So I've got to bundle those all up andsay, that's, that's a word of mouth.

(37:32):
So what are you doing as an organizationto get people to talk to each other
about the stuff that they need to knowthat's going on inside the association?
I think about, you know, back in, Growingup as a kid in, in, in, in Winnipeg
when, uh, we had like terrible, terriblewinter snow storms, uh, there was phone
trees, uh, and you know, the one mom'sresponsibility was to call three moms

(37:57):
and each of them called three moms.
And when the school was shut down forthe day, this is how they got word to us.
Uh, there wasn't any social media.
You couldn't just like post somethingon Twitter and the, or on the internet.
Right.
Um, I'm that old.
Uh, so what are, what are we, whatare, what are the ways that you can
activate word of mouth inside yourassociation to get people to talk to

(38:19):
each other about the important stuff?

KiKi (38:21):
I think that that gets lost so often because, um, what I've
seen with like online communitiesfor associations specifically is
like, uh, there'll be a focus ongetting everybody onto a platform.
There'll be a focus on.
Pushing content out, but there'snot as much focus on how do we
get people talking to each other?

(38:42):
And it's not like, you know, I thinkthat sometimes associations and
association staff will, we'll bethinking about like, Oh, well, we need
to provide all of these resources.
And like, if we give itto them, that's enough.
And it's like, no, how do you foster.
connection and, conversation, youknow, like how do you get people

(39:05):
talking to one another, not necessarilytalking to, just back to you,

David (39:09):
and, and yeah, give everybody some resources.
I've seen this so many times, likehere's a PDF that you can forward
easily to all of your friends.
No one's gonna do that.
Why, why would I bother myfriends with another PDF that
they have to download and read?
So yeah.
Thinking outside the box, uh,around how do we just get some
good old fashioned kind of Chattergoing on, uh, amongst our members.

(39:31):
Uh, yeah.
And, um, harnessing thatpower of human interaction.
So, so that's one.

KiKi (39:37):
Interesting.
That's a good one.
Yeah, that is

David (39:38):
a good one.
So another one of these, uh,more psychographic questions,
um, that we asked is what wecall the deal maker deal breaker.
Question.
And again, we do this with every industry.
It's not unique to this particular study.
Every speech I give, wealways have this information.
It rarely makes it into thekeynote because there's so
much else to talk about.
But here it is sharing it with you.

(39:59):
So the dealmaker deal breakerfor professional associations.
What's the one thing?
This is the deal maker question.
The one thing that would makeyou say, yep, absolutely.
I'm joining that organization I'min and I'm gonna be participating.
Participating.
Like, what's the one thing?
And the one thing in this case,uh, that's a deal maker is, I'm

(40:20):
gonna give you two, the top two.
The first one is community.
Mm-Hmm.
. They wanna know that there, there's,there's a perception that there's
gonna, that they're joining asupportive and welcoming community.
So.
We all talk about community a lot.
Uh, we all talk about, Oh, Oh yeah,we're, of course we're a community.
Uh, but what's the proof?
Um, how often are your membershanging out with each other when

(40:43):
it's not the, uh, monthly luncheon?
Right.
How, how often are they, um, involvedin each other's personal lives?
Do they even know what their spouse'sNames are, uh, what their, their friends,
I hope they all know what their ownspouses names are, but they're, but
they know what each other's names on

KiKi (41:02):
the association.
Um,

David (41:06):
but, but what's the proof there's a community here.
And if you have proof, great.
Talk about it loud and clear.
Social media, put it on your website, youknow, just like, you know, guess what?
A bunch of our members went and formed abook club, which had nothing to do with
us, but they're having a great time.
And if you're all interested in joiningme, you should go join that book club too.

(41:27):
Cause they look like they're havinga great time and yay guys go.
Uh, so what, what's theproof that there's community?
And then the secondone is, um, innovation.
People want, they, they expect theirmembership, uh, in these organizations
to be about, show me the new, the stuff II'm not going to find out anywhere else.
I want to, I expect you, I want youto help me be on the leading edge of

(41:50):
whatever it is our profession is about,or the reason we have an association.
So if you can get community and innovationhappening, those are two things that
are like the absolute deal maker.
Yes, I'm in.
Yeah.
Now let's go to the other side.
What's going to make me light myhair on fire and run away screaming?
Uh, the first one is high.
Membership fees.

(42:13):
Now that's a, to me, that'sa value conversation.
What's a high fee that dependson what I'm getting for it.
Doesn't it?
Uh, so, uh, but, but as associationleaders, what we have to listen, what
we, what, what association leaders haveto take away from this is if you're not.
Talking about that value, uh, uh,equation, then you're going to be losing

(42:37):
people because if it's not obviousthat this is worth twice as much as I'm
paying, then they're not going to stay.

KiKi (42:45):
Right.

David (42:46):
It's an incredibly important platform plank in the
platform, uh, to be focused on.
And the second onehere, um, is geographic.
Bias.
So this, you know, we're urban and youknow, we're, I live in the outskirts
when everything happens is for the peoplewho live in downtown or, uh, this is

(43:08):
supposed to be a national association.
So why is everything happening in NewYork and LA and not here where I live?
And why do I, the onewho always has to travel?
And so geographic bias is number twothing that'll make me run away screaming.

KiKi (43:20):
I can see that.
I can totally see that.
It just kind of depends on howsatisfied and how robust that
membership is and, and, you know,happy they are in those sections.
This resonates because I used to workwith chapters, component relations,
uh, back in the day when I started out

David (43:38):
relations, that's what it's called.

KiKi (43:39):
It's called component relations because it can be sections.
It can be, um, special interestgroups that can be chapters.
, so it's called all kindsof different things,

David (43:50):
relations,

KiKi (43:51):
relations, and there's a whole.
This is a whole, , segmentof association professional.
And if you know, you'll, you know,if you work in chapters, you know,
component relations, what that means.
Interesting.
I learned

David (44:05):
a new thing today.
I'm going to start talkinglike I'm an insider.
Like I, it sounds like

KiKi (44:09):
I smell like stereo pieces or like speakers or something, I know it
does sound a little bit like componentrelations, but yeah, it's like, it needs

David (44:17):
a new component.
Uh, that's it.
Yeah, and, and, and you knowwhat, I don't want us to be super
negative about this, but I do wantto mention one last one around this.
Cause I think it's really important.
The third most important thing that'sa deal breaker, the runaway screaming
with my hair on fire, internal politics.

KiKi (44:33):
Oh yeah.
Oh no.

David (44:37):
So, uh, the value equation, the geographical bias
and then internal politics.

KiKi (44:45):
That's interesting.
That's, that's a, that's a goodargument for why you should care
about your culture and why you should,you know, pay attention to what's
happening with the way that you relateinternally and not just looking outward.

David (45:00):
Well, and, and the, the data, when we dig in deeper
behind, what does that mean?
It's specifically about power strugglesbetween leaders and hopeful leaders.

KiKi (45:10):
Oh, Ooh,

David (45:12):
I know.
Kind of.
Kind of.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Huh?
Uh, we may think that some of thatstuff is kind of just behind closed
doors, but it's not, uh, it'snot, it's a not, it's not enough.
The 2000 people we talked to acrossthe United States, uh, it was 40
percent of them said internal politicsleaders versus hopeful leaders.

KiKi (45:34):
Wow.

David (45:35):
So keep it friendly folks.

KiKi (45:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's, that is spicy.
What about, there's one more, right?
Yeah, the

David (45:44):
third one.
Okay, one of my favorite questions.
We ask this for every keynote,every, every audience we study.
What do you, we call it thelove, hate, wish question.
What do you love, hate and wish you couldchange about whatever we're talking about?
So in this case, professional association.
So love, number oneresponse for thing I love.
I don't think anyone'sgoing to be surprised.

(46:07):
Uh, networking opportunities.

KiKi (46:08):
Yeah.

David (46:09):
Yep.
That's seems pretty, pretty obvious.
But then what I thought wasinteresting was number two and number
three, number two was communityabove professional development.
So networking opportunities, community,and then professional development.
So that community piece, remember it alsocame up under dealmaker deal breaker.
So that's twice now that it'sreared its head, which just

(46:31):
reinforces how important that is.
Yep.
Conversation we just had around communityreally really is if you've got a good
sense of community Find those littlebright spots find those moments that
illustrate how tight this community isand how you're going to just get Folded
in here and feel part of this big happyfamily Uh and and elevate those stories
make sure people know about those thingsthat are going on because it's hugely

(46:54):
important three things I hate aboutprofessional associations in order,
uh I've felt this one, uh, exclusivityfeeling excluded from the inner circle.

KiKi (47:10):
I was actually thinking about that.
When you were talking about whatpeople love is the community part.
I was thinking about what makespeople feel like they're not a
part of the community and it feedsdirectly into this idea that.
Only certain people, they only certainpeople get that, that exclusivity.

David (47:30):
Uh, number two and number three, um, with a really fairly decent, I mean,
it's outside of our margin of error of 3.
5%.
So they're worth mentioning,uh, superficial relationships.
So that's that, what that meansis networking without purpose or.
You know, just like, Oh, hi, hi.
How are you?
Air kiss,

KiKi (47:49):
but

David (47:51):
not really value relationships that matter, which is a subset of
community as far as I'm concerned.
So there we are with that community piececoming back up in a slightly different
way, and the third one is affordability,which goes back to that value equation.
We already talked about arounddeal makers and deal breakers.
So there, again, whenever wesee those same, um, messages.

(48:13):
In two or three different ways that youask a question, that's a red, red flare.
That's a, that's a three alarm fire.
So, uh, that value equationreally needs to be thought.
How do we tell people that thisis worth more than they're paying?
What's the proof.
And that would be an amazing thingto sit around and brainstorm about

(48:36):
because those proof points are.
Um, in some cases, the mostimportant ones aren't going to
be financial proof points at all.
They're going to be about the value ofthose non superficial relationships and
how someone because of this organizationmet this person and that person and
that formed a partnership that thisthing happened and then as a result

(48:57):
of that, their kids were able to dothis stuff and um, we all know those
stories inside our organizations, buthow often are we telling those stories?

KiKi (49:06):
We're not.
Not like I'm not nearly enough like I andwe want the stories we want to be able
to that's to me that would definitelybe one of those things where I'm like,
I want that I want to be a part of that.
That's a group I want to be a part of.
And the stories

David (49:23):
is all of these so far have been very much about How do we tell
better stories about this stuff?
And one of my favorite, favoritepieces of wisdom that I ever
picked up was that stories are thecurrency of human relationships.
We exchange stories andthat's our currency.
That's how we become like you and I, Kiki.
We met the first time wemet, we traded some stories.
We kind of liked each other's story.

(49:43):
And then we met again and we tradedsome more stories and now we're telling
each other all kinds of crazy stories.
And it's the way we build relationships.
And it's true, uh, between.
Two people.
It's also true between me and theassociation that I am part of, or that
would like me to be part of, of, of them.
And then lastly, the wish, what,what do I wish I could change now?

(50:04):
This is where things alwayscome up again, right?
Because we said, what do you love?
What do you hate?
What do you wish you could change?
Sometimes it relates backto the loves and the hates.
And it does, uh, number one, biggestthing that I wish I could change,
enhance networking, meaningful networkingopportunities, not just superficial.

(50:25):
Oh, clink, clink.
Oh, they're calling it champagne,but really it's Prosecco.
Ha.
Like that's not what I paid to do it.
I paid.

KiKi (50:37):
I know I've been to many of those events.
Oh yeah.

David (50:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and then number two, wishI could change affordability.
Uh, it's that value equation again.
And then lastly, um, accessibility,fewer inner circles and
barriers to participation.
So I will tell you one otherstory about another association.
We profiled a long time ago,one of the largest in the world.
I'm not going to name thembecause it's not a good story.

(51:02):
Um, they came to me and said, um,We're having a really hard time
getting people in our profession tojoin our association, which has been
around for an enormous amount of timeand is the de facto organization for
everybody in this particular profession.
Why are the youngsters not joining?
So we went out and profiled,uh, people who are of all ages

(51:24):
and people who, who are young.
Uh, and people who are, yeah, justacross the board, we was people
who aren't members, but shouldbe, and people who are members.
Oh, and also people whoare members, but left.
Oh, we had all three

KiKi (51:41):
kind

David (51:43):
of dig in there and see what those shared values are
and what are their differences.
And the big takeaway was ithad been around for so long
and it served the senior peopleinside the organization so well.
that there was a, therewere, there were fences up.
Uh, the only way I was going to get anybenefit out of this organization is, is

(52:04):
was if I was a senior person too, I had tobe a certain level inside this profession.
I had to have a certain number of degrees.
I had to have a certainnumber of this and that.
And the other thing in order tobe taken seriously and to reap the
benefits of this organization and theorganization was run by Senior, senior,
senior level folks, which makes sense.

(52:26):
They're the smart ones.
They've been around a long time, butthey did it in a way where the barriers
to entry to anybody coming into theassociate was like, we paid our dues,
you pay your dues, and then you getto be with us and hang out with the
big kids at the cool kids table.
Right.
Uh, and so when I presented thisinformation, uh, I'd been asked
to come to the board of directors,um, retreat in an exotic locale.

(52:50):
We'd paid for a ticket.
I was ready.
I was literally the day I was packingmy bag to leave to go to the airport.
Um, a summary of what my findingswere made its way to, um, uh,
the organizers who called me andsaid, do not get on that plane.
This is not the message we wantour board of directors to hear.

KiKi (53:09):
No,

David (53:10):
do not get in that plane.
I said, well, you know, it's nonrefundable and I'm still going to
charge you for my time in the research.
They said, we understand.
Do not get on that plane.

KiKi (53:18):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.

David (53:20):
Got it.
Uh, and that report, uh, was,uh, conveniently buried in
the back of a file cabinet.

KiKi (53:27):
Amazing.
Yeah, that is horrible.
You know why?
I think that.
What you're describing happensin a lot of associations.
, I, I see this happeningfor a number of reasons.
Because when they get to that leadership,um, level where they are the ones
that are sitting on the board theywant things to sort of cater to them

(53:50):
and they feel comfortable that way.
Everybody is sort of keeping thatgoing for as long as possible.
Oh, I like a lot of things.
But I think that sometimes these systemspeople end up with their problem,
which is like saying, why are the youngand not saying that this hierarchical

David (54:05):
systems like that are wonderful if you're at the top of the
hierarchy, uh, and if you're not atthe top of the hierarchy, they suck.
And if the folks at the top ofthe hierarchy are sitting around
going, why doesn't anybody wantto come and play with this?
Well, because you're makingit terrible for them.
It's because they're not atthe top of the hierarchy.
Flatten it out.
You know, find ways to keep it going.
Keep the reasons why the, the eldersare the elders, uh, but the elders

(54:31):
shouldn't be the only people whobenefit from any organization.

KiKi (54:35):
Yeah, no.

David (54:36):
association.

KiKi (54:37):
Absolutely not.
And, by the way, Elders, if you'relistening or whatever, like any
association leaders that giving back,we think a lot of times about the giving
back of, of people who get to that levelas giving back to the foundation, they
give back financially, they, they attendall of the big meetings and they spend
a lot of money with the organization,but Hey, Tap on their shoulders.

(55:00):
The giving back should be spendingtime, , building up those relationships
with the younger members who arecoming in and feel, you know, figuring
out how you can sort of match,make and connect people like that.
It's like bringing them together in thatnetworking opportunity to provide the
value, to bring people up and to providethat value for why new people in the

(55:24):
industry and in the association can thenget a leg up and see why they belong.

David (55:30):
And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm dying to say this because all of these things
we've talked about, all of these issues.
These challenges, these, um, uh, uh,weak spots that we've just been talking
about and the good spots, you know, allof them can be solved by understanding
what people value and values are theanswer to every situation because every

(55:54):
situation somehow is about people.
Uh, and people are onlydriven by their values.
So if you know the values of the peoplewho are association members and the
folks who should be association members,and maybe like that other group I was
talking about, the folks who left, youcan sit back and go, well, gee, let's
be a values driven association andfigure out how to deliver, uh, what

(56:16):
people care about the most deep insidetheir hearts and be a place for them.
Where they can come together on commonground, uh, and feel like this is home,
not to be too, you know, motherhoodand apple pie about it, but feel like
this is a home away from home in a, ina, of course, in a professional way.
I don't want this to sound all warm andfuzzy and poetic, but cause it's not, I

KiKi (56:38):
was digging this moment.
You're taking me outof my moment of sound.
I was, I was just like, Oh,listen to him land the plane.
I love it,

David (56:46):
you know, consider the plane landed, but you know, I,
I just, I, I sometimes I think.
One of the problems I have withthe work that we do is that it
does have a lot of those motherhoodand apple pie kinds of things.
It's about our values, aboutwhat's important inside our hearts.
And I got to keep reminding peopleand myself that, yeah, but it's data.

KiKi (57:07):
Yeah.

David (57:08):
It is motherhood and apple pie based on data.
Uh, and that's what makes it true,uh, and that's what makes it work.
And that's why they'recalled power values.
And that's why thisstuff is so, so valuable.
And I want to end with one quick story.
You know what it's going to be?
Cause I always endeverything with this story.
Okay.
Uh, there's a really big reason.
Why we have to start thinking this way.

(57:29):
And it's really effectiveto think this way.
It's a 89 percent effectiveinstead of 10 percent effective.
I mean, there's all kinds of goodbusiness reasons why we should start
changing the way we look at eachother and understanding people.
Uh, but this one isbigger than all of that.
And that's because.
The longer we keep using outdateddemographic stereotypes to think

(57:50):
about people, the longer we keeplooking at groups of people and
say, what are their demographics?
The longer that forces us to usestereotypes, because if you, as
ridiculous as this sounds, if you findout that your association members are
73 percent female, you're going tostart using, stereotypes about women
to figure out what you should do.
And of course, women, we allknow how much they like pink.

(58:12):
So everything has to be pink now, right?
Because what else, because that's,what else are you going to do?
Well, if all you know is thatthey're women, you have to.
It forces us to think, and if youdon't think it's happening, go
into the toy stores and look atthe pink toys and the blue toys.
It's happening in everyboardroom around the world.
We look at demographics and it leadsus to stereotypes about women, about

(58:34):
men, about black people, about gaypeople, about rich people, about
poor people, about everybody.
We stare at it.
Stereotype and then make massive,massive strategic decisions based
on those stereotypes, which justreinforce those stereotypes and
the stereotypes are inaccurate.
We now know that we have the data fromaround the world, a million surveys to
prove this, but the stereotypes are notgood, but they're not the worst of it.

(58:58):
The stereotypes are just the beginningof it because the stereotypes fuel.
Things like sexism and ageism andracism and homophobia and ableism
and classism and dot, dot, dot, dot,dot, dot, dot, dot, the rest of that
terrifically horrible list of conditionsthat we All can agree need to go away.

(59:21):
And yet we innocently are perpetuatingthose by continuing to rely on
stereotypes that come from demographics.
So the good news, the big, happy planelanding, second plane landing of the day,
uh, is that it's really easy to fix this.
It's super, super simple.
We don't need to build factories.
We don't need to buy a bunch of software.
We don't need, all we got to do ischange the way we look at each other.

(59:43):
That's it.
We just start with changing the wayyou look at yourself and realize that
you're a bundle of values runningaround chasing values alignment all day.
And if you do that, it'll forceyou to look at everyone else
and say, well, so are they.
There are also values driven humanbeings running around trying to find
out what's important and how to get morevalue of what they value in their life.
And if enough of us do that slowly,slowly, it'll be slow, but slowly.

(01:00:08):
Slowly, but surely we canchange the way we all.
Look at each other and that willchange the world and it really truly
will and We can all be part of that.
We can all make that happen by justStarting to embrace a values driven
way of thinking about each other.
That's it.
That's all we got to do.

KiKi (01:00:27):
That's it.
That's all that's not I mean, you know,it's not asking too much isn't So so

David (01:00:33):
What I get really excited about is I have favorite values
because of what they're teachingme at a particular moment in time.
So let me tell you a really coolstory based on this theme that we've
been talking about today, which ishow association leaders can use this
information to maneuver some of thedivisiveness that's going on in the

(01:00:55):
United States right now around politics.
So I remember exactly when this started,but like four years ago or something,
when, when, uh, Donald, uh, decidedto become a national figure, uh, And
things were starting to get divisive.
Um, I very selfishly thought that thiswould be a perfect moment for me to get
some press coverage because I could go outand profile what the heck was going on.

(01:01:17):
And all I wanted out of life, allI wanted was just once to hear
Anderson Cooper say, according toa value graphics study, and, uh,

KiKi (01:01:29):
pretty killer.
I have to say,

David (01:01:31):
it would be amazing.
So Anderson, if you're listening, uh,um, I, uh, So we went and I was thinking,
okay, so how do I get that to happen?
What is, what's going to, what arethe media love to talk about most?
They love to talk about the other media.
So I profiled instead of Republicans andDemocrats are team red and team blue.
I profiled people who watchCNN and people who watch Fox.

(01:01:53):
And I said, okay, this is a great way, agreat kind of, um, way for us to compare
these two sides and see what's going on.
And I was all excited.
We were going to get these resultsback that showed that this team
was like a bunch of crazy and thisother group was a bunch of whatever.
And, uh, and that there's going to be afight and that, uh, Anderson would then
have a reason to say those crazy folkswho watch that other station, there's

(01:02:15):
what they're all about and they're nuts.
Uh, But instead, what I found was thatthere was hardly any difference at all.
And that for one example, thevalue of family is insanely
important to both sides.
Now, granted what both sides feel isbest for their family is different

(01:02:35):
and how to get there is different,but they agree that it's about family.
Now, fast forward to January 6th, a fewyears later, uh, a date that I don't
think I have to explain to anybodywho's listening to this podcast.
Um, and.
In the midst of that, depending whoyou listen to, that, um, terrible

(01:02:56):
riot or that polite tour group whoare going through, uh, having been
invited inside, um, uh, in the midstof that, there was a police officer,
a capital police officer, who thoughthe was, thought he was going to die.
And we've all seen the footage of this.
It's been all over the All over the place.
He's being crushed up against a wallbehind a, an iron gate and people were

(01:03:18):
screaming, kill him, kill him, kill him.
And they're pushing and pushing andpushing this huge crowd of people.
And he was crying and screamingand they were beating him
with the ends of flagpoles.
And they were, they, they, hethought he was going to die.
And then he said, I havekids and they stopped.

(01:03:40):
They didn't give him a kiss,uh, and send him on his way.
Um, but they didn't kill him.
Uh, and he credits thatwith having saved his life.
And so there's a moment in.
Intense, intense turmoil, incredibleanger where a shared value brought

(01:04:03):
these two sides together for asplit second long enough that a
better outcome was the result.
So when I see those kinds of thingshappening and I can say there's
the value and there's what it did.
That's when a value becomes my, myfavorite, uh, for a moment, at least.

(01:04:26):
Uh, when I see those kinds ofthings and they happen all the time,
there's so many examples I could tellyou, these things are so powerful.
Uh, and I hope the stuff that we've sharedtoday helps, association leaders find
those places, those, that, that commonground, that stuff we've shared today, the
stuff that was part of this, this keynoteat IMAX, uh, and I'll keep doing this.

(01:04:49):
I'm going to keep trying to findthese important, powerful values
and sharing them with people becausethey can accomplish great things.
They really can.

KiKi (01:04:57):
Well, it's incredibly important work that you're doing.
And I think that's part of part ofwhy I love just following what you're
doing and, and, you know, being able towitness when I see This industry that I
love that I love so much the associationindustry more and more people finding

(01:05:19):
out about the work that you do So Ihave to say thank you so much we we were
talking about um, You You know, makingthis a conversation, making it casual.
And my dog is now just true to formis now telling me it's time for me
to take her out and interrupting us.
So it's is pretty darncasual because here we go.

(01:05:40):
Yes.
My pet is interrupting us, but,um, I just wanted to say thank you.
You know, thanks for taking the timeand talking with me and sharing some.
Some secret info.
I call it spicy because it's notsecret secret, but it's special
for my, my audience, just for

David (01:05:57):
you, just for you, all of your, all of your family.
All right.
Thank you.

KiKi (01:06:04):
Thank you.