Building a Niche in Custom Gyms | Kali Sudbrook of Beachside Custom Gyms

Kali Sudbrook took an untraditional road to remodeling. After more than a decade directing university fitness programs, she made the leap into remodeling and quickly uncovered the untapped niche of custom gym design build. Today she is shaping a growing industry that spans from high end garage gyms to the increasing demand for backyard fitness sheds. Kali shares what makes gym design different from other remodeling projects, and how she built a lean team powered by a virtual assistant and a virtual designer. She also reveals the disciplined processes she has created to keep her business running smoothly, along with insights for marketing content that connects with clients.

In this episode you will learn

• The one unique factor every gym designer must consider

• Ways she uses a virtual assistant and virtual designer to gain efficiency

• Tips for creating compelling marketing content around each project

• The process she follows to create repeatable systems

• Her vision of expanding Beachside Custom Gyms to a national presence

Visit Kali Sudbrook's website here.

 

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
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Welcome to the podcast where wetake a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.

(00:41):
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back everybody.
Today I'm excited to be here with KaliSudbrook, who is the founder and owner of.
Beachside Custom Gyms.

(01:02):
They're located in Costa Mesa,California, and they are Orange County's
premier home gym design build firm.
Really excited to have you on the show.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Kali.

Kali (01:13):
Thank you so much, Eric.
I appreciate it.

Eric (01:15):
Yeah.
So why don't you, uh, kick us off here.
Give us a little bit of your background.
How did you, how did you get intoconstruction in the first place?
I know your, your company's kindof had a few transitions here,
so why don't you tell us a littlebit about, about your backstory.

Kali (01:28):
Well, hold on your hats.
It's a, it's quite a ride.
Um, I, I will say I did not expectto be here or intend to be here,
but I'm so thrilled that I am.
And so currently, um, I'm thefounder of Beachside Custom Gyms.
I am an interior designerand a remodeling contractor.
It's a B two license here in California.
Sort of like a little offshootof the general B license.

(01:52):
And, um, I, I kind of got here by mistake,so I had a whole other life before this.
I was a fitness director at uc, Irvine.
I was there for 12 years.
I taught kinesiology atanother local college.
And, um, I just, it hit a pointwhere I loved it until I didn't,
um, a lot of the, like academia.

(02:12):
BS and political mumbo jumbo.
And it was like, okay, I, Igotta get myself out of this.
And so I really didn't have a plan otherthan I just knew I would be sitting in
these like soul-sucking meetings going,I wonder what tile I'm gonna be using
for our bathroom remodel, you know?
And um, I was just kind of likeremodeling room by room and my
wife was working a ton of overtime.

(02:32):
I was doing the work and it just kindof, it happened and it was so fun
and so I thought I. I think I wannaopen my own remodeling business.
And long story short, I started justdoing basic stuff like bathrooms,
laundry rooms, things like that untilI had a couple fitness colleagues,
because that was my whole network, cometo me and they said, Hey, do you think
you could do like a garage gym for us?

(02:54):
And I thought, thatsounds like a ton of fun.
And then it wasn't until like the secondperson asked me and I thought, I think
I might need to niche down into this.
And here I am.

Eric (03:04):
That's awesome.
You know, it's, uh, a lot of peopledunno, but my first company, we sold
software to colleges and universities.
So we actually worked with, uh,we, we had the whole uc system.
So I spent a lot of time, uh,working in working in higher ed.
And, and, and you're absolutely right.
It's, uh, you know, very, uh,political, bureaucratic, slow moving.

(03:24):
You know, we're gonna form, youknow, committees to figure out
who should be on some other.
Committee to, you know, I mean, justyears and years of like decision
making that, you know, I, I don't know.
Yeah.
What wasn't for me either.
Uh,

Kali (03:37):
yeah.
It's a, it's a very slow moving process.
Um, someone called it a glaciallyslow process, and I said, nailed it.

Eric (03:45):
Yep, absolutely.
So, so you started this like, kindof just, again, it sounds like some,
some daydreaming a little bit led tocreating a, a remodeling business.
Like, so, so when, when exactlywas that and, and what did it
take for you to actually get thebusiness up and off the ground?

Kali (04:02):
Um, it was a lot of not knowing what the heck I was doing
and just pushing through anyway.
Um, I remember like the first couple jobsI did, of course, like you always kind
of start with friends and you don't wannacharge them too much, but I didn't know
how the heck to price and so I was doingall these jobs and not making a dime.
Like literally, I was just basicallycovering the cost of materials,

(04:23):
you know, like I, I wasn't bringinghome anything and I thought, I
mean, I guess this is normal.
They say you're not supposedto make money in business for
like five years, but then just.
You know, this voice in, in the back ofmy head thought like, that can't be right.
You know?
And so I just slowly started makingmoves to improve upon that, obviously,
and I'm sure we'll get into that later.
But, um, yeah, I kind of forgot yourinitial question, but it was just such

(04:45):
a, such a wild learning curve of notknowing every day what was coming my way.
You know, whether a job was kindof gonna, you know, land in my lap.
It was just, it was a lot ofchaos, let's just put it that way.

Eric (04:58):
And how many, how many years ago is this?

Kali (05:01):
I started my business in 2021.

Eric (05:04):
Okay.
Nice.
And so it, it, it sounds like it waskind of just some, some whatever projects
came about, you know, you got to go, cutyour teeth on it, get in there, do some
deals, but like, didn't, didn't reallyknow, uh, your, your numbers certainly
didn't, uh, didn't price to make a profit.
Just wanted to get the jobs flowing.
And, uh, how did you, like how, youknow, beyond kind of the, the friends

(05:26):
and family though, how did you startgetting customers where they were like,
you know, actual strangers and peoplethat you know, you didn't necessarily
have a prior relationship with?

Kali (05:35):
It was when my friends started referring me to, outside of like my
own network, and obviously referringme to their networks, that it was
like, okay, this is where I'm actuallystarting to do real projects instead of
giving the friends and family discount.
You know?
And it was like really learning thatmy pricing model, like, well, let's
just say I didn't have a pricing model.

(05:55):
I didn't know how to price.
And so that was, you know, I,I would say my first mistake.
And a long string of many h

Eric (06:04):
How, how did you come up with a pricing then?
I mean, how, how did you do it?
You just pulling numbersup an air, I mean.
Ki

Kali (06:10):
kind of like, I just thought like, well it's, you know, probably gonna take
me X amount, but I had not really a wholelot of experience to know, okay, that
thing that you just gave him a price onis gonna take you five times as long.
You know, if, like, if you're in thebusiness, it usually takes like two
to three times as long if you don'tknow what the heck you're doing.
It takes like.
Five to 10 times longer than youthink it's going to take, you know?
So it was just, I think what a lotof people start to realize when

(06:34):
they start in this business ingeneral, in this industry, that,
um, you have to document stuff.
How long do things take, you know,you have to have a way to measure
and track and, you know, lookingat your time and all the things.
Right?
And I'm, I'm not saying anything that.
Your listeners don't already know.
It's like, yeah, obviously.

(06:54):
Right.
But first getting started, not havingexperience in the construction industry.
That was all new to me.
Yeah.

Eric (07:01):
And so when you first like, kind of came up with like the brand
and the name, like what, what, whatwas the original name of the company?

Kali (07:08):
So the original name was Beachside Interiors and I actually,
it was sort of a nod to myfather-in-law who lives in Maryland
and his company is called BeachsideInteriors Group, or sorry, Bayside.
Um, so he's on the Bay in Maryland.
We're on the beach in California,so I thought, oh, I'll kind of
name it after Dave's company 'causeit's like in the family, you know?

(07:30):
Um, so I called it Beachside Interiors,and then I kinda rebranded to Beachside
Interiors Remodeling, and then I thought,I'm not really doing interiors anymore.
I mean, yes, the gyms are in interioraspect, but I, I wanted to just
really go all in on that niche marketof gyms and home gyms, fitness.
Centers all the above, and soI thought I kind of need to nix

(07:53):
the interiors remodeling part andjust really focus on the custom

Eric (07:57):
gym part.
Yeah, that's great.
I mean that, you knowthat that takes a lot of.
People a long time to sort of figureout that they've kind of spread
their, spread their, you know, thethemselves a little too thin, trying
to do too many different things.
And it just, I mean, from a marketingstandpoint, from an actual execution
standpoint, like it can be very hardto be great at a lot of things versus

(08:18):
niching down and being great at one thing.
You know, and it just, it makes everythingelse so much easier when you can really
refine and get very good at that, thatone, you know, particular type of job.

Kali (08:29):
A hundred percent.
And actually I pulled on like myexperience in the fitness world because
as a coach and a, a trainer and all thesethings, um, you know, there's like, even
in fitness, there's different facets.
It's like, there's strength coaches,there's Pilates instructors,
there's group X instructors,there's power lifting, right?
So it's like, if I'm a powerlifter, I'm not gonna know how to

(08:50):
teach a Pilates class, you know?
So it's.
Sort of the same thing in,in, you know, construction.
Okay.
You might know how to pour concrete,but do you know how to build a
house or remodel or design it?
Probably not.
You know, so even within the constructionindustry, there's so much nuance to that.

Eric (09:07):
It's, it's neat though.
I mean, like, I, I, I can't say I've everseen like another like, you know, custom
gem, you know, design builder out there.
Like, is that, is, is it more commonthan, than I realize or is this like
a very unique, uh, you know, sort ofhidden gem of a niche that you found?

Kali (09:24):
Well, I'd like to think that I'm a hidden gem, but it actually is more,
um, it's gaining more popularity now,especially after COVID, like that was
kind of a no brainer, and everyonealways teases me like, wow, you really
missed the boat on that, you know?
And it's like, yeah, I, I kind of did,but I'm, I'm happy that I went through
my, you know, the process that I did,obviously at the time that I did.

(09:45):
But, um, yeah, it's a growing marketand in fact I've partnered with,
uh, two other gym design build,or actually they're just, just.
Sorry, gym designers, they don'tquite do the build aspect yet,
but I think they're going to.
Uh, but we created an association,so there's one out of Park City,
Utah, um, called Div Fit, and there'sanother one, our other partner
is Michael Strait, um, from LuxLife, uh, gym design out of Texas.

(10:08):
And so we're just lookingto build sort of like.
I don't know.
We're part of the industry.
Like it or, or not.
You know, it's like every high-endhome custom builder and designer,
they're looking to create wellnessspaces in the home these days.
It's just sort of like a non-negotiable.
So why not make that, you know, likeyou're gonna maybe hire a pool contractor.

(10:29):
Right.
Okay.
Well now you're going to hirea gym design and contractor.
Yeah.

Eric (10:34):
That's awesome.
And, and are you, so are you workingboth with like home builders and,
and getting in there kind of at thenew build level or is it coming into
existing or A little bit of both.

Kali (10:44):
It's both.
So it, it really, um, and I'm, I'm likelooking for other opportunity too, so
there's obviously like the residentialside, but I've just due to the nature
of my, you know, my past life andhaving all these fitness colleagues,
a lot of them are coaches and gymowners, and so I've actually done
quite a few commercial spaces as well.
So it's like, I just, I feellike I'm just playing every day.

(11:07):
Like I get to do the coolest stuff,work with the most awesome people,
and it's just fun, you know.

Eric (11:13):
That's awesome.
What, what, what would you say islike kind of one of your favorite sort
of features or, or design elementsthat you know, when, when you go
implement a gym, like this is yournumber one recommendation to, uh,
to whoever that that owner might be?

Kali (11:26):
Oh God, that is so hard.
I obviously, I wanna say equipment, right?
But there's not one equipmentbrand or manufacturer where it's
like, oh, you have to have this.
Because fitness is very dependent on whattype of workouts you do and what, how
you wanna feel and all the things, right?
So I can't even choose equipment.
I would honestly say.

(11:46):
Lighting, like layering the lightingand making sure that it's accentuating
your body in a way that makes youfeel motivated to work out, which
I think is a lot of times, likeI even see it in commercial gyms.
I'm like, Ugh, I would not wannawork out in there because you're,
you're gonna look kind of bad.
You know, like the lighting just sucks.
And so, uh, I think that'sa really easily overlooked.

(12:09):
Aspect, but one that's alsoeasily fixed, if that makes sense.

Eric (12:13):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I never even, uh, thought of that.
But I mean, even, you know, doing, doingpodcasts, you got lighting when you're
doing on, you know, talking on stage,you're lit up, like yeah, absolutely.
If you're going in a dark, drearyroom, nobody's gonna want to hang out
in there any longer than you have toversus being like, you know, feeling,
feeling good in a well lit area.
I mean, that, that makes a lot of sense.

Kali (12:33):
See, you're hired, you, you know, if you, if you want another job
someday, then you can come work for us.
You get it.

Eric (12:39):
I mean, you know, I, I've also always kind of thought like, and anytime
I've seen sort of that, that equipmentwhere like, it, it, it can kind of
collapse up into the wall or likeways to just like maximize your space.
'cause sometimes it feels verycrowded, but like, you want all the
equipment, but like, you know, youalso want have a nice open, you know,
area where you feel comfortable kindof doing whatever that might be.
So I've always kinda looked atthose types as as being interesting.

Kali (13:02):
Well, yeah, and it's cool because like those are getting more
and more popular, obviously forthe home gym aspect, but there's
so many different layers of it.
So in California, yes, we absolutelyare usually doing space saving, uh,
types of equipment just because we're,we don't have the space to move.
Out and make these expansivenew custom home builds.

(13:22):
It's like usually we're building up andthere's a basement where there's a fitness
area, or if someone has an existing home.
A lot of the homes around us were likein the 19th, they were built originally
in the 1950s and sixties, so you'rereally only able to do a remodel.
A lot of people don't havethe capacity to build up.
Um, so it's like you're kind ofjust using the space that you have.
So we're using, uh, equipmentfor garages, obviously.

(13:46):
But making it look nice.
And then also something thatwe're offering is fitness sheds.
So it's like, okay, everyone hasa backyard to some extent, right?
Put a fitness shed out there.
It's separate from the house.
You can run mini splits andlighting and everything.
Make it feel really nice.
And you know, there's yourfitness space right there,

Eric (14:03):
man, that So yeah, I love.
That's, uh, you know, again, I, what,what I sense is like, this is like the
perfect, like, you know, molding of likesomething that you're super passionate
about, but you're also able to builda successful, profitable business.
And like, when you get to wake upevery day excited to, to, to, to, like
you said, feels like you're playing.
You know, and that's, that's like you'vetruly, you, you've unlocked life right

(14:25):
there, like loving what you're doingand, uh, you know, making money at it.
Like it doesn't get much better than that.
Honestly, that's how I feel every day.
So yeah, I would agree.
That's awesome.
So when you think back, youknow, again, it's, it's been,
you know, what, like three, four,you know, four or five years now.
Like what, what would you say, like whenyou started this business, like what, what
were some of the biggest challenges or,or just kind of things that like surprised

(14:47):
you that you didn't realize was gonna be,you know, as difficult as, as, as it was.

Kali (14:53):
I didn't realize the finances were gonna be as difficult, or I
should say I knew it was gonna be hard'cause that was always something that
wasn't like my strong suit, right.
Numbers and math and things like that.
And so I kind of did what a lot ofpeople do when they're not good at
something and I ignored it a little bitand thought, oh, it'll just work out.
And oh, the, the details willflush out here and there.

(15:15):
And it obviously, asyou know, they didn't.
So, um, you know, I had to kind of learnthe hard way of like letting something
sort of get bad before you can understandwhat happened and then make it better.
And so I think that's, you know, whatwe do with a lot of different things.
Marketing, okay.
You kind of have to do things thatmaybe don't work to know what does work.

(15:35):
And I went through that, um, forprobably the first year and not
really knowing my numbers, notbeing profitable, things like that.
And then along my, along my journey.
I just kept meeting mentors at the most.
Perfect times where it was like,oh my gosh, like you're saying
exactly what I need to know.
And I, I just kind of glommedon and like, can I learn more?

(15:56):
Can you, you know, tellme everything, you know.
So I would, I would literally buylike consulting sessions with other
builders that I just really kindof had an affinity to, like, wow,
they're really doing it right.
They're being, you know, great,uh, you know, stewards of the
industry and just tried to learnas much as I possibly could.
I paid them for their time or didwhatever I could to just learn because

(16:16):
I'm like, this right here is not working.

Eric (16:20):
Man, that's, uh, that, that, that's really smart.
You know, I, I see so many peoplethat like, they just keep doing
the same thing over and over, butexpecting a different outcome.
And it's like, I think that's likethe definition of an insanity, right?
Like, yeah, you, you, you're justgonna keep doing that same thing.
And it's like, if it's not working,you know, the first time, why do you
think it's gonna work the second,the third, the fifth, the 10th?

(16:40):
Like, you know, but like being able tohave those fresh ideas and have people
like who, who have experience, whohave been there, they've done that.
You know, just kind ofgiving you that, that.
Third party perspective, youknow, sometimes can be so helpful.

Kali (16:54):
Yeah.
And you really need it, honestly,because you don't know what
you don't know, unfortunately.

Eric (17:00):
Yeah.
Would, would you say that like has,have, have you found yourself sort
of gravitating more towards like thesales marketing aspects, the design,
kind of the, the project management?
Like we're, you know, every day,like if you get to work on kinda one
specific kind of role or functionwithin the business, what, what is it?

Kali (17:18):
Ooh, that's tough because I really enjoy marketing and a lot of like,
just the ideas that go into it and thebrainstorming process and just find
finding ways to, to solve that thing thatyou're dealing with, that pain point.
Um, because that's like fun for me.
But I also enjoy the designbecause it's, it's really the same.

(17:40):
Type of like mechanism in my brain.
I think that that sees, like a client willcome to me with like pain points, right?
And it's like, okay, howam I going to solve this?
And so it's really the same like neuronprobably that just keeps getting fired.
Like, okay, we have a marketing problem.
How do we fix that?
Okay, we have a space problem.
Or you know, we gotta redo our gym.
How do we do this?
And I, that's, that's the part I love isjust sort of like re-imagining something.

(18:05):
Yeah.
You know,

Eric (18:06):
when, like, what, what, what does your team look like today?
So is it.
Is, is it just you, do you have employees?
Kinda what, what's thewhole team look like?

Kali (18:14):
I've, this year I've started to grow, uh, slowly, like not as aggressively
as I probably would have wanted.
Uh, I'll probably have totake on some debt to do that.
Um, you know, debt in a,in a good way, obviously.
But for right now it is, uh, me, my va.He's in the Philippines, he's amazing.
Um, and then I have a photographer whojust works, you know, like a ad hoc

(18:36):
sort of thing, you know, when wheneverwe finish projects, I have a part-time
project manager, and that's kind oflike a, a really, really lean and mean
sort of situation that I'm running.
But I need more, like, Idefinitely need a junior designer.
I need a full-time project manager.
And that's, I would be happy withthat and kind of see how that worked.

(18:56):
You know, that's my goalfor the end of the year.
So are you doing the, are, are you selling

Eric (19:00):
the project and doing the design?
I'm doing both.
I don't want to be doing both.
Both, yeah.

Kali (19:07):
How are you using your va?
Um, it is really for more of like themarketing and operations side of things.
It's like, uh, it could range fromcontent to, funny enough, I have
him working on uploading, um, thingsto my cost catalog and JobTread.
So, you know, we have this laundry listof equipment that, you know, all these

(19:28):
brands and all these manufacturers anddifferent price points and photos and
links and everything, descriptions.
And it's like, I can't just keepthis in a spreadsheet, you know?
Um.
So having him put stuff like we have amaster spreadsheet just in case like, I
don't know, I wanna send it to someonesometime just to help them out, like
at a fellow gym designer or something.

(19:48):
But what I really want and what I'mthrilled about is that the fact that
it's in my JobTread cost catalog, Ican literally just upload whatever
that client wants and say like withinseconds, truly like, well, this is how
much your gym is going to cost on theequipment side of things, you know?

Eric (20:04):
Yeah.
That's cool.
I hope you've shown him the, uh,the web clipper in case, uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely makes it a lot faster to geta whole bunch of, uh, bunch of images
and, and, and, and products added.
A hundred percent.
So did you like at, at what point,I mean, like I, I see you've
got a great looking website now.
Like it looks like you kind of justvery actively building and adding to it.

(20:25):
But like, at what point did you realizethat you needed to, you know, to to,
to bring on, you know, I, I assume somesort of web designer marketing agency.
Like when did you kindof take that, that leap?

Kali (20:36):
Um, I think it was last year.
So it's like with everything you, youlearn, okay, I need to do this thing.
Right?
Okay.
I need to build a website.
So I found, I'm not gonna namenames, but I found this web designer
that literally they just put yourstuff into like a template and put
it online and you have a website.
Right.
And that was good enough for whenI was like, just starting out.

(20:59):
I just needed something.
Right.
It was very cheap.
It was, you know, just got the.
Got the job done, but then I, youknow, you start realizing, okay,
that's not good enough anymore.
I need to elevate what I'm doing.
I need to show up alittle bit differently.
And so I, I actually did geta web designer, um, and I
paid him like a one-time fee.
He built it.
Um, and then now it's up tome to sort of maintain it.

(21:21):
So the next step is to find someone whowill both, uh, maybe redesign slightly
or, you know, do whatever tweaks needto have happen, but then someone who
will manage that for me so that Idon't even have to think about it.
At all, you know, so it's like youkind of go through things in phases.

Eric (21:38):
Sure.
Has that are, are you also like, youknow, so like, are you actively, you
know, putting out blog content andtrying to kind of like, you know,
drive the SEO uh, through there?

Kali (21:48):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So like every time we finish aproject, we do, um, we upload
photos to that, you know, portfolio.
We write a blog about it, and thenevery Monday we post a new blog, and
then that blog gets posted on LinkedIn,on Instagram, I also do a carousel
of the topic, you know, like a eightpost carousel, post that to Instagram.

(22:09):
And then that same week I doa talking head that's like
a mini summary of that blog.
So it's like I'm trying to show up asmany places as I, as I possibly can.

Eric (22:17):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
It's, you know, again, sounds like youreally kind of got all the, the, the,
the marketing, uh, angles firing there.
Are you, are you running likeads or doing anything like that?

Kali (22:28):
I did run ads for a short period of time, and what I found,
and everyone told me before I, I ranthem, I was like, so excited about it.
Yeah.
I'm doing Google ads, Facebook ads, andthey're like, oh, that didn't work for me.
And I thought, I'll show you.
I'm different, you know?
And then it turns out it didn't work allthat well for me either, unfortunately.
And you know what?

(22:48):
It could just be timing.
It could be the.
Demographic I was chasing.
It could be a lot ofdifferent things, right.
Could be the, the content itself.
So I'll probably retry it at acertain point, but, um, it wasn't
super helpful when I did do it.

Eric (23:04):
Yeah.
I mean it, I, I've, I've learned,you know, countless times, like
it's so important that you havesomebody who really understands.
The ins and outs, like how to build thosetarget audiences, like kind of the right
way to sort of bid on the keywords andkind of like just actively managing, you
know, your, what, what is your ad spend,you know, your cost per click, cost per,
you know, customer, things like that.

(23:25):
I, it, it, it, it's very in depth,but I, I can tell you like, when you
find the right person to do that,you know, whether they're, you know,
on your team or you know, through amarketing agency, something like that.
Like, you know, the, the right person.
Can definitely make it work.
And it can work really, really well.
You know, the wrong person.
You can spend a lot of time and moneyand have nothing to show for it.
And it's, uh, frustrating.

Kali (23:45):
Yeah.
And, and that's the thing.
Like, I know it works.
It's like, but I just wasn't doing itat the capacity I think that I need to.
And so there's like, you know, there's,there's so many variables that you can
tweak and change and manipulate that.
It's like, okay, well we'll try it again.
You know?
Yeah.

Eric (24:01):
So what's your, so, so what is kind of, walk us through sort of the full,
you know, sales process from, you know,somebody you know, finds out about you to
kind of what, what, how, how do you sortof manage that process all the way through
to, you know, getting them, getting 'emto be a customer and starting the project?

Kali (24:17):
Well, before I even say anything about that, um, if I didn't use software
to manage it, it would, my life would be.
Awful.
Um, so two things that I do, obviouslyJobTread, um, just to track through
the journey of where they are.
Okay.
Are they in design, are theyin construction, um, site
visits, things like that.
But then also I use Clickup.
Um, it's kind of like an Asana or,um, similar type of program where

(24:41):
I can, uh, you know, just sort of.
Have a, a board of all of my clientsbecause I want my leads to be in
one place and my actual physicalclients to be in another place.
I know some people use JobTread for both.
Um, but like personally, it's like, okay,I need them in two different places,
so I know those are my leads, you know?
And just kind of buildingthat pipeline constantly.

(25:03):
And so, um, but yeah, someone willcome to me and it's usually through
a DM on Instagram or a referral.
So those are right now my two majorsources of traffic, which, um,
you know, I'd like to obviouslyimprove as, uh, as we grow.
But, um, they'll say, Hey,like this is the space I have.
Um, here's some photos.
'cause I ask for, you know, whatdoes this space look like right now?

(25:23):
And so the first thing we do is adiscovery call, and that's just like
a 10, 15 minute call just to sayit's honestly to figure out like if
I'm going to be a good fit for them.
Because if someone's like, Ineed this tomorrow, I'm like,
okay, that's not gonna work.
You know?
So it's just, uh, to figure out.
Do they even have a budget in mind?
Like all the things that you wanna doto qualify that client and then cool.

(25:45):
If it sounds good, if they're on board.
Awesome.
Next step is, um, I used to callit a site visit, but I changed the
lingo a little bit because I thinkemotionally there's a different, um,
context to calling something a sitevisit versus now I call it a design
consultation because truly that's.
More what it is.
I'm collecting measurements,I'm consulting with them.

(26:07):
What about this space do you not like?
Or if it's a new space,what is your dream space?
What does it look like, feel like?
What types of equipment, whatdoes your workout look like?
Um, so it's a pretty in-depth meeting.
It's a 90 minute meeting and Iuse, um, canvas io and I can do
like a 3D scan of the whole site.
Without even pulling out my tape measure.

(26:27):
It's awesome.
So I do that, take some photos,um, and just really get a sense of
like, who is this person, you know?
And then, um, I charge for that.
So I charge $450 for that,which I didn't use to do.
And I would just get like run over allthe time by all these people asking me to
come out and, can you come out for this?
Can you come out for that?
And I would do it.

(26:48):
And it's like, but.
Like, they wouldn't evercall me back, you know?
So it's like, okay, I'mgonna charge for this now.
Um, and then from there it goesinto a design proposal, which I
build in JobTread, and I just say,Hey, um, based on your project, on
the scope, on your wishlist, thisis what it's going to require of
my team's time to get this going.

(27:08):
Um, and I did forget to mention I have,um, a graphic designer in Bangladesh.
So, um, we're, we'reinternational here, you know.
But, um, yeah, so we do thedesign, uh, agreement, and then
we go through the design process.
Then we'll do at the very end of thedesign process as pre-con so that
we get all of our ducks in a row.
And then once that's good, they approvethe, the final proposal and JobTread.

(27:32):
They pay, um, their initial,basically, I, I collect like a.
50, 40 or 50% depending on the job,and go straight into construction.
So that was very lengthy, I realized.
But that's really my wholeprocess from start to finish.

Eric (27:47):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, so goes into construction, sothat's where, I mean, are you kind of,
you're, you're handing it to, you're yourproject manager there and then are they,
you know, ordering all the materials?
Are they all, all the equipment materialsare, they are using subcontractors,
I assume, to, to do the, the labor.

Kali (28:03):
Oh yeah.
So, um, right now I still do more of likethe ordering and things like that because
I know exactly, like, unfortunately I'mstill so small that it's like brain dump.
It's like I know what goes into thatproject, so I'm gonna purchase those
materials, equipment, everything.
Right?
Um, but that when, where myproject manager comes into play is.

(28:24):
Excuse me.
Taking photos on site, uploadingthem to the client's portal, you
know, just keeping them in the loop.
Like, Hey, at the end of theday, can you write up something?
Um, post it so that they know what's goingon, what we did, what we accomplished.
Um, maybe if we ran into any issues,all the things that you would want
to do to keep that client, you know.
In the loop, basically.
So that's where the projectmanager kind of takes things over.

(28:46):
And then, yeah, we have subsfor just about everything.
The only thing I haven't decidedto sub out, just because it's like,
ugh, it's like so exciting for meto do the equipment install because
I finally start to get to see allthe pieces come to fruition and
it's like, okay, this is what I wasdesigning in my head three months ago.
You know?
No.

(29:07):
So it's something stupid.
Like I could totally hire that out, right?
But it's like we get the whole team there.
My lead carpenter that works withme, like he loves these days too.
So it's just like a really liketeam group oriented effort.
And it's like the clientsare always pumped.
Like it's just a fun day.

Eric (29:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I'm, and I'm sure again,just being able to be there, sort of
capture those moments and I can reallysee them, you know, those, those aha.
The lights, you know, everything'skind of come, comes to fruition.
I mean that's, that'sdefinitely the best part.

Kali (29:34):
Exactly.

Eric (29:35):
Do, uh, you know, so, so let's say after the job, what do, do you
have like a kind of a closeout process?
Like, do you, do you stop to review?
Like, how do we perform on this job?
You know, any, anything like that?

Kali (29:47):
Uh, I would be lying if I said I did because it's been
on my to-do list for about sixmonths and I have not done it yet.
So I know like I've onmy list of things to do.
There's been, uh, review WIP reportsfor like half of the year and it's
like I haven't done it yet and, andI have a little bit of an excuse
and you know, it's just an excuse,which is not good, but I've been.
Uh, switching from cash basis in myaccounting to accrual basis, which like,

(30:12):
I don't wanna start doing it in cashbefore, you know, and then it gets messy.
So I'm like, I'll just wait till I'mrunning accrual basis and then I'll
really start the WIP reports and thenI'll be able to track everything.
So unfortunately I'm not, um, ableto use like the software to its full
capacity right now, even though Iwant to, because it's like, well.

(30:32):
It's just, you know, I don't wanna haveto learn something twice, basically.
So, so who's, who's managing your books?
Um, I have a bookkeeper.
Oh yeah.
I guess they're on my team too.
I keep think, like, I don't haveanyone on like payroll other than
my project manager and myself.
So it's, I'm like, ohyeah, I have an accountant.
Oh yeah, I have a bookkeeper.
You know, like I have all thesepeople, but their contract or, you

(30:55):
know, W nine employees basically.

Eric (30:57):
Yeah.
So they,

Kali (30:58):
or 10 99, sorry.

Eric (31:00):
So, so you got them, they're kind of helping with the books.
I mean, you know, what,what would you say though?
I mean, earlier we were kind of talkingabout like, you know, one of the, the,
the biggest challenges and, and kind ofreally one of the most important areas
you said was like, understanding yourprofits, you know, so, so where, you
know, where has that come from for you?
Like how, how have you learnedhow to price your jobs and like
how to, you know, what, what,what profit margin are we using?

(31:22):
Like how does that all flow through?
Like it, have you had some, some,some, some hard, uh, lessons there?

Kali (31:28):
Yes.
As you could probably imagine.
Yeah, I mean, like being profitable, as Ialready mentioned early on was, was tough
because I didn't know what I was doing.
And so I actually, um, started following,um, a builder and it's a design build
architecture firm out in, in Minneapolis.
And, um, the founder, Michael,an shell runs a. Basically like a

(31:49):
training tutorial called, uh, cope,uh, cost of project execution.
And it's basically like, hey, you mightbe pricing the job with materials and
like your time, um, for like the laboraspect, but like you have to factor in all
of these other, you know, other things.
You have to factor in youroverhead and you have to.
Factor in your profit and you haveto factor in client meetings and

(32:11):
returns on materials, like all theselittle things that sort of compound
and it's like, oh, it's just an hour.
Or Oh, it's just 30 minutes here.
Like, no, that time adds up andit eats into your bottom line.
And so I actually went to his course,learned so much, but I was also
overwhelmed where I came to him afterit was done and I said, I don't even
know how I'm ever gonna be profitable.

(32:32):
Like I'm not like charging enough.
And he is like.
Charge more.
And so, oh, I was like, okay.
So I re crunched my numbers, figuredout where I wanted to go, and it's like,
you just gotta work backwards, you know?
And I'm not exactly where I wanna be.
Um, you know, I don't, I don'tthink anybody ever is right.
But I'm on track to getting therebecause I'm doing things better.

(32:52):
And I, I price, um, very transparently.
And that's another thing that I'm, I'veswitched from one software to JobTread
because I just wanted like more.
Ability to be transparentwith what I was pricing.
Like I literally show my overhead thatI'm charging the client as a line item and
I show my profit because I'm a businessjust like Target, just like Costco.

(33:15):
I need to generate a profit.
Like I'm not just doing this forfun, like I'm doing it for fun,
but I need to be successful too.
You know?

Eric (33:22):
So, yeah, no, that, that, uh, that, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean, again, I, I, I thinkit's, people don't realize like.
You know, you, you have to make surethat you're making enough from your
jobs to cover your overhead and to beable to keep the lights on and to keep
growing and investing in the team.
And so, you know, it's, it, it isa, uh, it's a challenging exercise,

(33:43):
especially for new businesses when for.
You really don't know what yourexpenses are gonna be over the
next coming months and years.
And like, how do you factor all that in?
And it's like, I'm, I've got afinancial playbook talk that I do
and I actually put out a, uh, a modelwhere people can take and clone it.
And I'm just like, you gotta create anannual budget for yourself and say, Hey,
you know, here's what we want to do.

(34:05):
At the end of the year, let's back intohow are we gonna do that month by month?
You know, how many leads can we bring in?
Like, where are they gonna come from?
Like, you know, how much arewe spinning on, you know,
marketing to drive those leads?
Like, what's our close rate, youknow, what's our average project size?
And like, it starts to kind of helpyou back into, you know, do we have
the people, you know, do we havethe budget to be able to build this

(34:25):
business and accomplish those goals?
And so, you know, it, it allkind of flows back to the,
like, are you charging enough?
To cover your future growth and yourcash flow and make sure that like, you
know, you, you, you're putting enoughaway to keep investing in the business.
'cause so many people don't do that.

Kali (34:41):
Right.
And another thing that helped meactually, speaking of like, um,
you know, cash is king, right?
And so, uh, the book Profit First.
So I, I run the Profit First systemand like, there's obviously my
bookkeeper in that type of accounting.
But just on a day to day, because again,as I mentioned, I'm not a math person.
I don't like, I feel too bogged downwhen I like, go too deep into the numbers

(35:03):
and I just start to feel overwhelmed.
So it's like profit first.
It might be like rudimentary,but you know what?
It freaking works to get me frompoint A to point B, and I can
look at my bank account and knowexactly where I'm at on any given
day and not have to second guess.
Like, well, let me look at my pand l, which I already don't really
understand, you know, it's like,it just makes it a lot easier.
So,

Eric (35:23):
you know, it's so interesting.
I, I, uh, I often times tell peoplelike, look, you know, I as, as, as
crazy as it sounds like using thetime clock and JobTread, like if,
if you don't truly know how much.
Time you're spending working on eachclient, working on various aspects.
Like if you don't know your ownproduction rates, you know, like then,
then it's gonna be so much harder foryou to know where are you just kinda

(35:44):
losing money and where's all that time?
You know, it's justslipping away, you know?
And it's like you gotta like have agood understanding of like how long
it takes you and your team and yourpeople to execute these projects.
Because like again, it's all theselittle things they do add up.
And when you take the culmination ofall of that over the course of, you
know, weeks and months and years, youknow, it, it could be a huge amount.

Kali (36:06):
Yeah, and it's, it's eyeopening for two reasons.
It's like, okay, you might bemissing out on money that you
could be charging potentially.
But then also it's like, maybe we could bemore efficient with this, or maybe there's
some slippage in that, or maybe I'm notdoing this, um, quick enough, so okay,
do I find someone else to do it faster?
You know?
So there's a lot of differentways that you can play that.

Eric (36:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
What, what would you say, I mean, what,what else has been, you know, kind of.
Would you say has been instrumentalto kind of getting you to the
point where you're at today?
I mean, it sounds like you've got agood, solid business that, that, you
know, has got a lot of opportunityahead, but you know, you're, you're,
you're, you're off the starting block.
You've got something going, you got a veryclear focus, mission, vision, direction,

(36:48):
you know, what kind of, what are, what aresome of the other things that have sort
of helped you to get to that point today?
I

Kali (36:53):
mean, so number one was kind of like knowing the numbers, your, you know,
understanding profit, things like that.
And then the second thing was justusing software to your abilities.
Now also adding a layer to thatis like understanding AI and
things like that, and how can weimplement that into the business.
And just understanding like ways to like,get time back in your day, you know?

(37:14):
So it's like when I hear people stillusing spreadsheets, I'm like, oh.
What are you doing?
You know, like, I mean, to,to each their own, right?
Like, no judgment, but I'm, for mepersonally, switching to a software
based estimating and proposal and likethe fact that JobTread is like seamless
with my QuickBooks, like it's justso much time and mental energy that

(37:37):
I didn't know I was spending doing.
The other methods that I used beforein the past, and it's like, oh, like
you start using it and it's like,wow, that took so much off my plate.
Or just like the mental bandwidththat was, you didn't realize
was going on in the background.
You know when you, like yourcomputer has too many programs
running in the back and you don'trealize that you close those out.
You're like, oh my gosh, mycomputer goes so much faster now.

(37:58):
Right?
Yeah.
Same thing.

Eric (38:00):
It's crazy how like, I mean, those, those little things again, like
that, that the administrative work,the things that like take you away from
focusing on what you're passionate about,delivering value, providing a great
experience, delighting your customerslike that, that is like what, you know,
everyone wants to be focused on andthat's what you know and, and excites
them and gets them going, but like.

(38:22):
You know, you, you, you can't neglectthe blocking and the tackling.
You just gotta figure out how do you doit as efficiently as you possibly can.
You know, wherever you can automate.
Obviously automation is, is gonnabe way better than doing something
manual, but like, you know, you, youknow, just finding those ways to, to.
To have better tools, to have betterprocesses, to be more efficient,
like it can free you up so much.

(38:44):
And it just, again, it, it leadsto a happier day-to-day life.
Like I'm not doing the things thatI don't want to be doing, and we can
let computers and software and AIand just kind of go, go do that stuff
for me while I go do what I want.

Kali (38:56):
Well, yeah, and I think that's the hardest thing about starting a
business is you don't have systems yet.
You have literally not a system foranything that you do, and so it takes
so much manpower and energy and timeto do anything in your business, right?
So it's like the second you startgetting the software and you start
implementing processes, it's likeit just frees you up, you know?

Eric (39:17):
How do you identify where to go?
Try to tackle, you know, like abottleneck or somewhere to implement
a new process and like, are you, areyou kind of, you know, trial and error?
Are you, you know, are youdocumenting the process?
Like how do you kind of go aboutimplementing a new process somewhere?

Kali (39:33):
So we have, my VA works on doing, uh, playbooks for us.
So like, if I have him do atask, like, um, what's the book?
Buy Back Your Time by Dan Mortel.
It's like, Hey, every timeyou, you're, you're doing
something multiple times usually.
So it's like, okay, we've post, I'vehad him post several YouTube videos.
All right, well, I thought it's time now.
Like you, we should have aplaybook for this, right?
So, hey, do this task, but then documenteverything you do from start to finish.

(39:58):
You know, I'll, I'll kind of layit out like this would be step
one, step two, and then he kind of.
Uh, you know, fixes it and, andwhoa, we actually forgot a step
here, so he'll add it in though.
It's just really like refining that.
And so we have a whole folderin our drive of just playbooks,
you know, for marketing.
It could be, I have one for JobTread,so even though, you know, you guys have
amazing tutorials, it's still like, Hey,this is where you find this tutorial,

(40:21):
and I can even back link it in there.
So that's awesome.

Eric (40:24):
No, I mean, I, you know, like, I, I, I think, you know,
there, there's obviously a tonof resources, you know, out there
online and, and, and, and everywhere.
But like, it's all about like.
Taking the time to really like, customizeit for your business and like, you
know, again, like you're, you're, you'recreating your own buy into this process by
like, you know, really detailing it out.
Like, how is this gonna work for me andour business and our team, and how are

(40:46):
we going to follow this playbook andlook, maybe a month in three months,
six, 12 months, whatever it is, like.
We're not, we're notdoing it exactly that way.
Like, let's kind of modify and, and adaptand like you can continually improve.
But you know, again, I think it'sawesome that you've, you, you know, the,
the key is you've, you're documentingit all and you've got one shared
repository with all these playbooks.

(41:07):
And so like, it, it, you know, again,in the future is you keep building
out your team, you're gonna, youknow, your onboarding process will
be so much easier than so many times.
I see business owners, they hiresomeone and think they're just gonna
learn by osmosis, hanging around.
Somehow read your mind and knowthe processes and it's like,
that's not how it happens, people.
You gotta document it.

Kali (41:27):
Exactly.
Like, I mean, yeah, youcan't read someone's mind
of like how to do a new job.
I mean, you, you need guidance.
And oftentimes in small businesses,the owner, the founder who, whoever,
we don't have the time to trainsomebody on every single aspect.
So you have to have some sort of system.

Eric (41:43):
Yeah.
So.
I'm curious, you've, you, you talkeda little bit earlier about this, like
this association that you've, you've,you've come together with some others
to form, like, you know, what, what'sthe, what's the bigger vision here?
What, what do you, you know, in thenext, you know, five, 10 years, like,
where do you wanna see, you know, yourbusiness in particular and then kind
of, it seems like maybe this larger kindof, uh, community that you know, that,

(42:05):
that, that you're looking at creating.

Kali (42:07):
I'll start with the, the association because it's still so new.
I mean, we've just joined forcesseveral months ago, so we're still
kind of figuring it out, seeing whereall three of us want to take it.
Um, but I think it's just gonna be,we, we kind of envision it being
like almost this builder 20 group orbuilder 10 group or something to that
extent where, hey, we're getting thebrightest minds in all of the nation.

(42:29):
Or we, I even have a guy in um, Canada.
And it's like, Hey, let's figureout how to make, you know, best
practices for our industry, forwhat we're doing with gym design.
What should it look like?
What does pricing look like?
Like even just in our initialconversations, uh, they were
like, you're charging that?
And I'm like, yeah.
And so it's, it's like we all needto be on that playing field because

(42:51):
if one person's charging a lot andthe other person's charging a little.
We're diminishing value and, and, youknow, it's creating, uh, a bad situation.
So it's just getting all on the samepage, making sure we're sharing resources
because again, um, we're a communityand we wanna keep building each other up
and, or, you know, rising tide lifts allboats sort of, uh, mindset, you know.

(43:12):
Um, and then with my ownbusiness, I, I really see it
going national, so I have done.
Some like small targetedprojects that are virtual only
in other aspects of the nation.
So one was in Washington, um,another one I'm working on right now.
Uh, we're in discussions right now,but it's in Utah, or no, sorry, Idaho.

(43:34):
Um, and then, yeah, so it's just reallylike gaining, I guess the, the, not
the experience necessarily of howto do virtual design, but gaining
the, um, the experience of like.
I don't know, um, marketing it properlyto outside of my own audience, like
I don't have that experience yet.

(43:55):
And I'm curious how to accomplish that.

Eric (43:57):
Do you, do you think, like, would you still end up looking kind
of to have, you know, some, some.
Some boots on the ground in those marketswhere they could actually go in and do
the, you know, the design consultation,sort of manage the project from, from
there, but still kind of have you asa, as a back office, you know, sort of
centralized resource where you come infor some of the consult, the design sort

(44:18):
of overseeing kind of the, the projectand the estimation and all of that.
But like ultimately there's,do, do you think that you'd
still need a, someone out there?

Kali (44:27):
Um, yes and no.
It's gonna depend on like thescope of the project, right?
But like for some projects I can foreseejust doing the design or some sort of
like design consultation to like a bigger,um, capacity is going to fit the bill.
Like some designers, for example, um, whodo like a whole home, they might be sort.
Put off by the fact that like, well,I don't wanna compete with another

(44:49):
designer on my project, but if it's soldas more of like a consultation, maybe
that tempers it a little bit and it'snot so scary because I don't wanna come
and take over someone's whole project.
I just wanna do the fun part.
You know, like I just wannado the gym and that's it.
So not trying to step on anyone's toes,but then there are some other designers
and even builders or architects wherethey're like, I don't wanna do the gym.

(45:09):
I don't care about it,but this client wants it.
Can you?
You know, handle the whole thing,start to finish and it's like, great.
Yes, absolutely.
And so my vision is that if we can'tbe their boots on the ground with my
team and my contractors and, you know,things like that, or my subs, um, trade
partners, I should say, um, you know,I can help identify winners in their

(45:31):
circle, in their area based on, uh,the groups that I'm associated with.
So, like NAHB, um.
Nari, like, you know, all these, all thesedifferent organizations that, you know,
just about everyone in that organizationis going to be top notch, you know?
Um, they're gonna be reputable,they're going to be ethical,

(45:51):
all these things, you know?
So, yeah, I definitely see there'sa, there's a huge opportunity
there that I'm excited about.
I

Eric (45:58):
mean, I, I almost wonder if there's like a, a way where it's like,
you know, you, you kind of are creatingthis like kind of coaching, you know,
opportunity where, you know, you can comein and coach these other people who are
doing, you know, the interior remodels,but might want to have, you know, some
sort of niche down and into somethingmaybe they're more passionate about.
You know, obviously youflushed out the model.
You got the systems, the processes, like.

(46:20):
You know, could you setothers up for success?
And then, you know, essentially justkind of some, somehow, you know, play
some, some ongoing role, but morekind of in that coaching capacity.

Kali (46:29):
I think that's, there's gonna be like this weird intersection of
like, my business and then what theassociation is trying to accomplish,
and there's gonna be like thismerging of, of both of those things.
I, I think that's my feeling.

Eric (46:41):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
I mean, again, it, it's uh, just look,looking at your work, I mean, you do
great work and it's, you know, it's, it'sso apparent that like, you, you really
care and you, you don't cut the corners.
You put in the effort.
You got clean design,great implementation, you
know, delighted customers.
So, you know, you're, you'redoing all the, all the everything.
Right.
You know, that sounds like, you know,you know, you talked about earlier maybe

(47:03):
wanting to grow the team a little bitmore, you know, trying to, to, to get,
you know, get a few more people in there.
You know, is, is that, uh, you know,is that, is that kind of in the, in the
near, you know, next, you know, 12 monthstype deal where we wanna, you know, get.

Kali (47:16):
Oh yeah, like next six months.
I like, if, if I don't do it in sixmonths, I'm gonna lose my mind, you know?
So it, it needs to happen.
I, I just, I need tomake it happen, you know?
It's scary and it's, uh, uh, thingsthat keep me up at night, but.
Every and every business owner willtell you this, like, it was scary
and they didn't wanna do it, andthen it, the second they did take

(47:37):
on, like whatever it was a new personor hire or whatever, it's like, Ugh,
I wish I would've done that sooner.
You know, that's always the response.
So it's, no, I just gotta, Ijust gotta bite the bullet.

Eric (47:48):
I mean, it definitely, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a big believer
in like, you know, identify the,the roles, the responsibilities, you
know, that, that you need to fill.
And then put 'em out there just, youknow, on your website, put 'em out on
the career boards, you know, like it,but like, just be patient, you know?
Yeah.
It could take a long time to find theright person who's gonna be a great
fit, who's gonna be part, you know,kind of really help embody the culture,

(48:10):
create the culture, especially earlieron, you know, those, those early people
that, that's like your core, right?
You gotta have a super strong.
Core.
So, you know, however long ittakes, you know, but, you know, I
think, uh, you know, uh, you know,referrals are obviously great.
Just, just like with customers.
It's great to get referrals on people whomight be a good fit to come work for you.
Um,

Kali (48:30):
yeah, and it's the same thing with subs too, and your trade partners.
It's like I've, I've had some like.
I wouldn't say I've ever had a badexperience with any trade partners so
far, but there's some that I like towork with more than others, and those
are the ones that are always on my jobs.
'cause it's fun.
They do it right and the clientslove, you know, like just everything
about that job with them goes well.
And even if we run intoissues, they make it right.

(48:52):
You know?
So it's like those are thepeople that I want on my team.
Whether or not they're on payroll,they're still part of my team, you know?

Eric (48:59):
No, I think that's, that's a great, a great way to look at it.
I mean, and we kind of, you know,we like to describe it as like,
it's, it's your power team, right?
Like it's, yeah.
It's all, all the people who areinvolved with your business, whether,
you know, they're, they're, they're10 99 or, you know, W2, like, you
know, it doesn't really matter, right?
Like, you know, as, as leaders, wehave to create, you know, this, this
vision and, and, and, and have the, youknow, the, the, the core values that,

(49:20):
you know, we all embody and attract.
To this greater mission thatwe're all working towards.
And I think like, you know, when, whenyou start looking at, you know, just kind
of this, this holistic, like, here is myteam of people, whether they're, you know,
partners or employees, it doesn't matter.
Like as a unit we are functioning andwe are going and we are driving forward
and this is what we want to accomplish.

(49:41):
And you know, I, I tell people allthe time, like, you know, like,
you're not gonna be able to hire.
Enough people to come inand do marketing great.
You know, but like you can spend somemoney and you can hire an agency who
has a big team of people who, theyhave all the right skill sets and
different, you know, experiences and thedifferent kind of facets of marketing.

(50:02):
And so it's, it's, it's.
You don't have to try to hire everythingin-house to be able to be great at those
things, but you do have to make sure, youknow, someone is focused on these things
and we're not dropping balls, you know?

Kali (50:13):
Yeah.
And you, you have to identify like, whoare those partners that are, are already
winners in whatever they're doing.
And then.
Find a way to, to make those peoplepart of your team or those companies,
part of your team, you know?

Eric (50:26):
Yeah, for sure.
You, uh, like what, do you do anythingfor your trade partners to like, you know,
kind of make them feel more involved?
Or do you know you guys have kindof, you know, events or celebrations
or, you know, how do you kind of keepthem feeling part of the, the culture?

Kali (50:40):
I don't know.
I think we're just always like,connected on like Instagram and
stuff and checking in constantly.
And I, you know, at, on, uh, the startof a job, I take all of their business
cards and I put them into one of thoselike door hanging bags and I walk it
around to all the neighboring houses andwith a card from us, with our branding
that says, Hey, you know, pardon ourdust, you know, we're doing a project.

(51:02):
Thanks for your patience.
And, um, here's our trade partners.
So if you ever have one of thesethings that you need to hire for.
Drywall, plumbing, electrical.
We trust these people and sowe want to share them with you.
And so that, I think, goes a longway for, for my trade partners.
Like when I said that they'relike, you, you're gonna do that?
I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't I?
Like I trust you on my project, soI wanna tell the world, you know?

(51:25):
Um, and, and just like knowing theirbirthdays and sending them a gift
or, you know, whatever that may be.
So like, I haven't gotten quiteto the point where I'm throwing
these massive trade partner partiesor anything like that, but that's

Eric (51:35):
coming.
That is definitely coming up.
I mean, that's, that, that is awesome thatyou go around and you ba I mean, you're,
you're literally marketing for them.
You know?
Exactly.
You're spreading the word.
I mean, you know, I can't say I'veever met anyone who, uh, wouldn't
say, Hey, call me and I'll, and,you know, I'll, I'll GC it for
you and bring in all the trades.
But I mean, again, good, goodfor you and good for them to.
You know, get, get that, get that wordout there and I mean it, you know, again,

(51:58):
it, it, it gives them now even morereason and incentive for you to win more
projects because they know that that oneproject could turn into five or 10 more.
Exactly.
Yeah.

Kali (52:09):
And another thing that I do to, you know, going back to like the
marketing piece and knowing that likethese projects are gonna turn into
more projects is like the more eyeballsyou have on a project, the better.
And so when I finish a project, I doa ton of content on Instagram for it.
You know, the pre and post and acarousel post and the reels and
all the things, the transformation.

(52:30):
I tagged my trade partners in all ofthose posts and just say, Hey, we couldn't
have accomplished this without them.
So that people can look in that, youknow, caption area and go, oh, well
I need someone to do electrical.
They did an a phenomenal job.
They can see it.
They can, you know, look athow great of a job it was and
go, yeah, I'm gonna call 'em.
So,

Eric (52:48):
yeah, that's awesome.
All right.
Well look, you know, as, as, as wewrap up here, I'm, I'm curious, any,
any final, you know, thoughts or,you know, advice that, you know,
you would want to give others?
You know, thinking back again, if you, ifyou, if you knew what you know now and you
were starting all over again, like what,what do you wish, you know, you could have
done or what might've done differently?
You know, just any, any, any,uh, you know, top advice here

(53:09):
that you might wanna share.

Kali (53:11):
Uh, I really wanna encourage people to be, uh, maybe a little
bit vulnerable and ask for help,because that can be really hard to do.
And I came into this like as a secondcareer, so I was like, well, I gotta
get a, you know, a, a headstart on this'cause I'm not getting any younger.
So I, I think I really dove deep intothat of asking for help where, um.

(53:36):
If you don't ask, you don't get.
And so there's so many talented buildersand industry partners and people out there
that like truly want to give their timeor to help someone else be successful.
And you know, you might get a nohere or there, but it's probably
just because they're way too busy.
And that's fine.
Keep going, you know?
But really just.

(53:56):
You know, asking for helpfrom whatever you need.
Financial stuff, um, trade secrets.
I don't know.
I'm, I don't know that they'resecrets anymore, but you know what
I'm saying, just anything, or I shouldsay nothing's off limits, you know?
Yeah.

Eric (54:09):
No, that's, that's, that's awesome advice.
You know, it sounds like, again,you've, you've had a lot of people
that have helped you along the way.
You know, to the extent thatothers can, you know, can, can go
seek that, that guidance, thosementorships coaches, I mean, it, it
can really save you a lot of time.
A lot of headache.
A lot of money.
You know, it's, it's about, youknow, being proactive though,
not just sitting back and waitingfor things to come to you.

(54:31):
Like you gotta go makethose opportunities happen.
You gotta go seize the moments.
Find the people that can driveyou and your business forward.
And you can buildsomething very successful.
And you know, I think at the endof the day though, like the coolest
thing I see here is like your passion.
You know, like I love that.
Like I can tell you're so happy with whatyou do and like, but, but at the end of
the day, like you, you really can't askfor anything more than just like to be

(54:53):
able to live a happy and fulfilled life.
And, and I, and I want othersto encourage, you know, or to
encourage others, like figureout how do you get yourself.
Into that happy place, doing whatyou love, waking up every day
excited to go, conquer the day.
You know, like, it, it reallydoesn't get any better than that.
So, like, awesome job figuring that out.
I'm sure it took a lot ofhard work to get there.

(55:14):
A lot of blood, sweat and tearshave probably been poured,
you know, into this thing.
But like, you know, mostly tears, Hey,you know, you, you represent it well.
So, you know, kudos to you for,uh, you know, at least making it
look easy and making it look fun.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so muchfor coming on, Kali.
Appreciate your time.

(55:35):
Appreciate you sharing all of this.
Look forward to seeing allof your future success.

Kali (55:39):
Thanks, Eric.
I

Eric (55:39):
appreciate this opportunity.
This was awesome.
Absolutely.
Have a good one.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gain valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please

(56:01):
contact [e-mail].
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.