Fight for Your Worth

In this episode of Builder Stories, Eric sits down for an inspiring (and blunt) conversation with Tom Reber of The Contractor Fight. A passionate advocate for the trades, Reber was host of the HGTV series Unfinished Business and today has a massive audience for his influential videos, podcast, and Facebook group. Here, Reber brings his well-known candor to the discussion with insights on why “most sales people suck” and what can be done to correct it.

In this episode you will learn:

• Reber’s definition of success
• FHow to set a fifty percent gross profit target
• When raising prices is the right move
• Why most contractors leave so much money on the table
• Why Sales is a perishable skill

Resources:

Visit The Contractor Fight website here.

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
Job Tread Connect is back again this coming January 14th
to the 16th in Dallas, Texas.
This is the premier event for constructionprofessionals to learn, share, and
grow together, live and in-person.
From hands-on training andexpert led sessions to industry
insights and powerful networking.

(00:21):
You'll leave fired up andready to crush it in 2026.
Don't miss your chance to connect with topbuilders as well as the job tread team.
Register [e-mail].
We can't wait to see you in Dallas.
Welcome to the podcast where wetake a deep dive into the stories
behind Construction business leaders.

(00:41):
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.

Tom (00:53):
What's up, man?
What's up?
Dude, where to begin.
Cool.
To be here at the HQ ofthe job Tread empire.

Eric (01:01):
Yeah.
I appreciate you coming to, uh, speakat our boot camp and sponsor that.
Cool man.
Great group of people.
Yeah, it was awesome.

Tom (01:07):
I was telling you earlier, before we started this thing, how cool
it is that you have everybody comein here and get coached up on Yep.
On the software and many users yougot now, like 4 million or something?
Where you at?

Eric (01:17):
Uh, well, we, we track it more by a number of companies.
So it's like 7,100 companies now.
It's wheat.
I think it's like 40 something thousandlike internal users as employees, and
then it's, I don't know, probably likea million external Nice subs, yeah.
Clients, things like that.
Awesome, man.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
So look, why don't I, you know, I'm,I'm, you know, you and I go way back.

(01:40):
I don't, like I was saying, I thinkI joined one director fight or
something, had like 4,000 members.
Yeah.
Pretty awesome to see the growthof that group and just what
you've been able to build, man.
Tell us, tell us a little bit about it.

Tom (01:54):
Well, it's funny, you know, we, it, I, we, alright, so here's what's funny.
I was on the plane ride here and I waslooking on Facebook and I was like, yeah,
we got 20,000 something people, right?
And then I started looking at otherFacebook groups in the trades and
some of 'em are like half a millionpeople and all this other stuff.
But what's funny is we, um, um,when we started the Facebook

(02:17):
group, you had to own your crap.
Yep.
Within 24 hours we kicked you out.
So we've actually kicked outmore people that are in it.
And then, um, and then if you're kindof a dirt bag or something like that
in the group, we kick you out now.
Um, because I just, I'd rather havebetter conversations higher, but

(02:37):
dude, it's like two full-time jobsfor our team to manage that group.
So I don't know what to do with it.
But my point is, is you used to own yourcrap and then Facebook almost shut us down
because they said we were bullying people.
I remember that.
And, um.
And yeah, so the group's weird.
I have a love hate relationshipwith the Facebook group.

(02:58):
Um, it's a lot of work and

Eric (03:00):
we gotta figure out what's the right balance of, you know Yeah.
Kind of policing it versusjust letting it naturally,

Tom (03:05):
well, what I didn't want is I didn't want the free group to become what I
think so many groups are, where guys arejust posting pictures of their work and
going, look how great I am, and people ripon their work and all this other stuff.
Right.
I wanted it higher level conversationsaround growing your business, not
about the actual, you know, whatsaw Blade do you use, you know,

(03:25):
it's like, you know, whatever.
But overall, a lot of great people in it.
No, and, uh, yeah, thing's beengoing since I think 20 19, 20 18.

Eric (03:35):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I just, I think backwhen, when I first joined it, I
mean, that was, you know, I wasrunning a construction company.
I mean, I learned a lot just being ableto see other people's conversations
and the challenges they were having.
Right.
You know, you're chiming in andyour coaches are chiming in.
People are kind of justnaturally, you know.
Helping each other.
You know, I'd say that, you know,even some of the, you know, the

(03:55):
job Tread Pros Facebook group.
I mean, I don't know, I, I still rememberthe day where were like, man, do we,
do we create this Facebook group?
Like, what's gonna happen?
Are we gonna get all of our, you know,users and clients in there and they're
just gonna, you know, feature requestsafter feature requests and what are
complaining And, you know, I was justlike, man, like look, the, look at
the, the contractor fighting, justhow it's such a great resource Yeah.
To so many people.
It gives them that like, reminderthat they're not in this alone.

Tom (04:18):
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate that.
It, it is a lot of work and it's nota perfect group, but I think it's
a little higher quality than theaverage contrary I Facebook group.
But, um, so you brought up, uh,users being like idea after idea.
How do you vet those man?
Like what do you guys do?

Eric (04:34):
Yeah, so, you know, we actually, I mean, and, and, and so I'm kind
of the primary, uh, or I used tobe the primary Facebook group.
Manager, I mean, justlike yourself used to be.
And um, you know, I was, I was, every timeI saw these ideas, I used to go and like
log 'em and kind of create 'em in our, youknow, in our development tracking system.
And, uh, you know, got to the point therewhere just like I was getting overwhelmed

(04:55):
with the amount of like yeah, feedback.
I mean, it was great feedback, you know,and you want to track it and you wanna
understand how many people this affectsand like, you know, but I, I got to the
point where like, I needed a better way.
And so we implemented what wecall our feature request board.
And so that allows the users togo in and, you know, the goal is
to get them to search and to find,does some, you know, does that
already exist as a feature request?

(05:16):
And then just go upvote it, you know, if,if they want to make and add their own
little commentary about how that wouldbenefit them or why, or things like that.
Uh, but, uh, you know, really that'sbeen a huge like, you know, just
kind of help to allow anyone to gocreate their own feature request.
And then we, we still reviewand, and, and we'll publish them.
So, you know, everything kindof goes into a pending status.

(05:37):
We did also have to put a limit onthe number of feature requests any
given user can submit, uh, and, andhave, uh, have pending at one time.
Otherwise, you know, some people wouldprobably create hundreds of them.
But, uh, you know, it's, it's been sohelpful though to really be able to see
and sort that and, you know, we can sortit by priority or uh, by, you know, most
popular if you will, highest number of os.
And so like that directlyinfluences our development

(05:58):
roadmap and it's just invaluable.
I mean we, you know, just keep knockingthe things off the top and Yeah.

Tom (06:04):
I ask 'cause we were talking before, we gonna record like
being founders, entrepreneurs.
Yeah.
We have all these ideas and just'cause you have an idea and you
could do it doesn't mean you should.
Yeah.
And um, we get ideas in the fight allthe time about our programs and this
and, and I think one of the thingsI've learned, you probably learned
as well is there are unintendedconsequences of some things that you do.

(06:27):
Right?
Like if you don't really, and,and sometimes people give me
a hard time 'cause we're slowto make some changes with some
things, but it's, we're trying to.
I'm gonna pull the trigger first guy.
Yep.
And my team, they likeput the brakes on things.
They're like, well, we thought aboutthis and how it's gonna impact this.
And so how do you do that?
I'm interviewing you now.
What the hell's going on?

(06:48):
I can't all, but I'm just curious,like, how do you, how do you,
how many ideas do you have a day?
Like, so how do you determineif you're gonna pursue?

Eric (06:59):
You know, I think, I think I would say I'll adopt, I've,
I've adopted kind of Casey, myco-founder's sort of philosophy on it.
Is that the things that keepcoming up, those are the good
ideas you need to pursue.
Yeah.
If you have an idea one day youthrow it out there to, to whoever.
You never, nobody ever brings it up again.

(07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or it's kind of just a fleeting idea, youknow, but it's, it's the things that truly
do, I think have merit and have potentialand, and, and have some, you know.
Have some real, you know, value to them.
Yeah.
Those, they just, they keep comingup, they keep popping up, you know,
whether, you know, I remember itagain or someone else say, Hey,
you know, someone brought up.
And it really, you know, we, I I, Ithink it doesn't matter where the idea

(07:43):
came from where, or, you know, one ofour big beliefs is just like, maybe
the best idea always went, you know,and, and I want anyone and everyone to
feel comfortable bringing that idea up.
But at the end of the day, like, youknow, it, anyone should be able to,
you know, agree or disagree and we candebate it and, you know, it's, it's
how you kind of sort of flush out,you know, in, in a healthy manner.
Uh, you know, and, and so I think it'sjust, it's, it's the things that, you

(08:05):
know, if, if enough people get behindit, support, it keeps coming up.
Yeah.
Those, the ideas you pursue.

Tom (08:11):
Yeah.
With us in the fight, our teamhas, they haven't said this to me,
but I know this is what happens.
'cause I have ev I ideasevery day, every week, right.
They ignore me until I bringsomething up multiple times.
Yeah.
Over a couple months.
And then they're like, okay,this is something he's kind of.
It's important.
Yeah.
Or serious about looking into, so yeah,we have a couple things that we did.

(08:36):
Like our contractor business schoolthat we started in January of 2025,
like that had been on my radarfor probably a year and a half.
Um, ttt Tell us about that.
What?
Yeah.
Well, it's designed for guys thataren't doing half a million yet.
I mean, you know, one of the thingswith the fight is we wanna bring
respect and dignity back to the trades.
And, and I don't believe, like, I knowthere's tons of great training companies

(09:00):
out there, like, so I'm, I'm just sayingour lane, we just really love the smaller,
newer contractor 'cause I believe wecan help them the most, the fastest.
Yep.
And so we, you know, like ourbattleground program is really
designed to get you to a million, but.

(09:21):
You gotta get the 2 50, 500and all that other stuff.
And we just didn't have any, like we haveall our free content, which helped, we
didn't have an official program, so it'slike a thousand bucks for the year, and
they get all of our courses and then theyget a live q and a with me once a month
where they can hop on and I'll, I'll add,I'll sit there and answer every question.
We have several hundred contractors in it.

(09:42):
Um, all different trades.
And um, but that was one of thosethings that I just kept, my, my wife's
a horse trainer and she's like, youhave your amateur professional, whatever
riders, and that you have what theycall an underbelly or an under saddle
program for like younger riders.
She was like, she kept saying, youhave to create this for the fight.

(10:02):
You need that official roadmapfor them to get to half a
million, then get to a million.
And then, so we have, contrary tobusiness school, we have battleground
and then we have war room for thosethat want to get up to, you know,
what is it, eight figures and Yeah.
And all that.
So,

Eric (10:17):
and I think that's so important though, because, you know, if
you think about it, I mean like.
And if you even just look at, look at,you know, the economy in the United
States, I mean, and the, the bulk ofall businesses are small businesses.
Yeah.
They're, they're entrepreneurs and they'resolo owner operators who, I mean, every
single business had to start somewhere.
Yeah.
And they started right thereat the bottom on the ground

(10:37):
level, building their way up.
And, and, and I think thatit's often very underserved.
You know, everyone wants to,to be out there and, you know.
Tries to service and chase the,the biggest contractors and the
people making you know, the mostmoney because they think they can
make the most money from that.
And, you know, it's easier to have,you know, a few clients paying you
a whole lot of money than to havethousands of clients paying you, you

(10:58):
know, a much smaller amount of money.
But like, you know, I think one of thethings that I've always really respected
about what you guys are doing, and youknow, I'd say to to, to the same extent,
you know, we focus on the small guys too.
You know, I think so many times they'regetting left behind and they're not
getting that support that, you know,again, I mean, you and I have had
mentors and coaches throughout ourcareers, but like, if you don't know
somebody, if you hadn't had that, youknow that, that good fortune, that

(11:21):
luck to find somebody in your life whocan help guide you, you know, then so
many people just burn out and quit.

Tom (11:27):
Mm-hmm.
Well,
I believe the stat is less than5% of home improvement contractors
even get to half a million.
I'm not

Eric (11:41):
surprised.

Tom (11:42):
Like, and I mean.
Dude, I, I want to say they'relike on the books, if we ask AI or
whatever, there's like 3.7 millioncontractors in the United States.
I think it's more, I mean likeshooting Colorado Springs where I
live, there's like 2,500 paintingcompanies along right there, you know?

(12:03):
And so, um, but yeah, I think a lotof these guys think they gotta have
a lot of money to get help and stuff.
And that's, again, that was justone of our values was, you know,
we want to help, you know, evenif it's free, we want to help.
You know.
And of course, you know, you, you knowthis, you've hired coaches and mentors,
like you can consume things on YouTube,read books or whatever, but you, you

(12:24):
pay for speed, you pay to collapse time.
Yep.
And to go from A to B quicker.
And, um, that's why Ihire coaches and stuff.
'cause I want to get from here to therea little faster than I would on my own

Eric (12:36):
now.

Tom (12:36):
Um, and it's.
Always paid off.

Eric (12:39):
Yeah.

Tom (12:39):
But, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm like, you know, we gotta do something for
that's like a thousand bucks a year.
That's just a no brainer.
I love it.
Um, you know, and even our battleground,I mean, at, at this point now it's
only like eight grand a year forthat and, um, which it's like 22
bucks a day or some crap like that.
If you think about it, it's likehow much money are we all blowing
in our lives on a daily basis?

(13:00):
Yeah.
Uh, so that's, that was one of thefoundational things that we started
this thing is I, I really wanted to makeour price point a no-brainer to where
the value far exceeds like you guys do.
You know, I mean, 'cause what do youcurrently, what do you guys charge now?
It's

Eric (13:16):
199 bucks a month.
Plus 20 bucks per user.
I mean, we've had that, wehad every set price in Yeah.
Over three years.
Like it's dirt cheap.

Tom (13:23):
Yeah.
It really is for everything that you get.
You guys keep evolving and, um, youknow, and the, I mean, I'm walking
around your headquarters here.
I mean, the support staff you haveis crazy and what do you call it?
Customer success department like.
Felt like there were 80 peopleback there when we walked in there.
Yeah.
Um, but, uh, that's why you're ableto continue to grow and, and all that.

(13:45):
'cause you keep reinvesting in the team.

Eric (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, I think it's, it,it is, it's, you know, you and I both
share the, there's a huge opportunity.
It's, it's an enormous market, youknow, and, and we want to make the
biggest impact that we possiblycan on the most number of people,
the most number of businesses.
Yeah.
And, you know, I I, I really appreciatethough, like, I mean, and, and you, you

(14:08):
mentioned earlier, like you have putout more content, more free education
than anybody else I've ever seen.
Yeah.
I mean, you have podcasts, YouTubes,you know, all of the videos, everything
that you just continually do.
I mean, I, I don't even know how youdo it all to be, uh, to be honest,
like you, you must spend half yourday behind a camera recording and you

(14:30):
know, you've probably got a team ofpeople that doesn't let you leave the,
the recording studio or something.
But yeah, it, it.
It's gotten out there in millionsof views, millions of people.
You know, you'll ne you, you'll nevereven know the true impact of NA's content.

Tom (14:43):
No, and dude, it's funny 'cause yesterday before I flew here, I was
talking to somebody on the team.
I said we could probably go two yearswithout having to record any content up.
We just repurposed whatwe had at least two years.
Um, I think if you include shorts andlong form and all that on YouTube,
we're probably up over 2000 videos.
The podcast is over a thousand.
That's on the Contractor Fight podcast.

(15:06):
It's like 11 or 1200 right now.
But if you remember, we used to have thecontractor sales podcast that has over
a hundred or 200 or something as well.
So all in, and we stopped recordingthat and moved it all under one roof.
But yeah, I mean, and it, and it's funny,like the, um, I get hit up all the time

(15:27):
from, um, we'll just say people, uh.
Like, we can edit your videos andwe could do this, and you could
be getting so many more views andyou're not doing the YouTube best
practices and all this other garbage.
And I'm like, I don't care.
Yeah.
Like I, I'm not a YouTuber.
I'm here to educate.

(15:47):
Yeah.
I, you know, I guess by defaultI'm a YouTuber, but it's like,
that's not my main business.
And so, um, yeah.
You know, you're like, Idon't know how you do it.
Well, we put out a lot of badcontent for a lot of, lot of
years and it's still up there.
No, and that, and what's, uh, was it ZigZiglar said, uh, you gotta be willing
to, to do something and be really badat it before he can be good at it.

(16:10):
Or, so he was one of those guys.
Right.
But that's the thing.
And I, I we're alwaysencouraging contractors.
Pull out a phone out onyour job and just show us

Eric (16:16):
that they all know they need to do it.
Why don't they do it?
Yeah.
Why, why are people soscared to get behind video?

Tom (16:24):
Alright, well let's think of our audience here.
Contractors in general.
Craftsmen, you know, high quality.
So the thought of them just not havinga blueprint or a plan and you know,
the best equipment and all these otherthings, I think that's part of it.
Yeah, I think part of it is alsothey're just, um, there's the fear
of putting themselves out there.

(16:44):
What are people gonna think?
There's uh, they, they say theydon't have time, which is vs.
'cause I mean, you can, we had aguy, uh, builds water features.
I'll just leave it at that.
Like, he just goes live on his job site.
Alan, Alan Decker.
Decker scapes, right?
Um, in New York.

(17:06):
He sells a ton of work every year just'cause he goes live and he's like, Hey,
we're digging this hole here right now.
He just turns the camera on pointsand we're gonna put the waterfall
here, we're gonna do this.
And he kind of shows and says hi to thecrew and this, and that's not even edited.
And he posts it and he is like, oh,we'll be back in a few days to show
you what it looks like and thenwe'll turn the water on or something.

(17:26):
Right.
And.
Like, he'll have people that aremoving from across the country to where
his area is that are reaching out.
'cause they're on Facebook looking at thearea and they see his stuff and they're
like, Hey, we're moving in two months.
We want you to build a thing for us.
And it was free.
It's a free lead now.
So you're, and we're already, I mean,it's like content blogs, videos, um, you

(17:50):
know, you know Marcus Sheridan, Zoe's,they ask you answer and all endless
customers and all that, which you havethe book right there, which is cool.
Um,
you are having these conversationsall day, every day with clients
and your team, this and that.
Just record it.
Yeah.
Just show us what you're doing.
I don't know.
I don't, I don't, I'm crazy withthis, but there's so much money being

(18:13):
left on the table because I thinkthe average contractor is fearful.
They lack discipline.
And again, I'm not ripping on 'em.
Like we all have theseissues from time to time.
I'm just saying what holds 'em back?
It's um.
Not really like trying to put all thingson an equal playing field with their time.
Sure.

(18:33):
And you can't do that.
You gotta really dial in, like, whenI spend time doing this, it moves
the needle, versus when I do this,not everything is equal priority.

Eric (18:43):
So you've, you've really developed an entire, like, series of programs to
take someone from day one's the verybeginning, all the way through, you
know, starting with, you know, the freecontent, kind of, you know, learning,
going at their own pace to then gettinginto the contractor business school.

(19:05):
You graduate, go up tobattleground to war room.
I mean, like, so how do you,how does someone know, like when
they're at the right stage toenter into these new programs?
Like how do, how do they kind of,you know, like, can you see this like
point where they've, they've, they'reready to kind of graduate, if you will,
and, and take it to the next level.

Tom (19:24):
Yeah.
You know, it's funny, um, we, we've had aton of people that even just started their
businesses out that joined, that weredoing like zero revenue or up to believe
in a hundred grand to their first yearor whatever, that actually jumped into
battleground and won big time, even thoughthey weren't at like the higher revenue.
Sure.
Um, I think it really comes down to theindividual, like how hungry they're,

(19:50):
are they implementing, like, like jobtread is no good if you don't use it.
Right.
The knowledge you read in a book isno good if we don't implement it.
So coaching, training, whatever.
So it, you know, I, I think, um, I'veseen people that accidentally have run
a million dollar business and they'rethe most undisciplined people in the

(20:10):
world, and they're stuck on the hamsterwheel that are never gonna change.
They're never gonna get anybetter because they won't look
in the mirror and own their crap.
Yeah.
Um, so I, I think it'sa very individual thing.
Uh, but we also, that's why we do so much.
Interaction and conversations with ourmembers and all of our programs and
our coaches and me and this and that.
Like, um, it's an open door.

(20:32):
Like when I do these lives, evenfor the contractor business school,
I'm like, we'll have guys get on.
And they're like, how do I know I'mready to hire my first employee?
How do I know I'm ready for thenext level and blah, blah, blah.
Um, I think a lot of it iswhere do you want to go?
What, what pain and problems are youwilling to tolerate and to put into
your life to go to the next level?
Yeah.
So I think all these things factor inlike, I don't judge somebody's definition

(20:55):
of success 'cause it's their definition.
Sure.
I know a guy does 300 grand a year, payshimself 180, works like three or four
days a week, and he's happy as can be.
Like, and he has nodesire to want to scale.
So he's good where he is at.
Yeah.
You know, uh, how wouldyou answer that question?
What was the question again?
About how do you know when somebody'sready to go next level on something?

Eric (21:18):
You know, I, I think a lot of it is, it's, it's like what you're saying, they.
They need to show the initiative.
Mm-hmm.
And the drive and the desire totake themselves to the next level.
You know, I think it's a lot oftimes, you know, we, you know,
we can train them all day long.
We can show them how to do things allday long, but if they don't want to

(21:41):
do it and they don't right, do it.
You know, if they don't hold themselvesaccountable, then I think it can be, you
know, it gets a point where it feels like,well, we're just kind of pushing you, you
know, instead of like, look, we wanna leadyou, but like, you gotta follow, you gotta
go and implement and take the action.
So, you know, I think it's, uh, I, I wouldsay we're, we're definitely fortunate
that, you know, when people do sign upfor Job Tread, you know, they've, they've,

(22:04):
they've kind of made the commitment.
I mean, they're putting some skin inthe game, you know, I think that it
is important at some point that, youknow, you know, you can give everything
away for free and then people don'tappreciate and value it enough, uh,
you know, regardless what the cost is.
I think there's, you know, something tobe said when you've got skin in the game.
And so I think for, you know, for us.
Just making sure they're ready.
And then,

Tom (22:24):
yeah.
What's that old saying?
Those who pay, pay attention.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, I know when I, likeI've, I've had coaches been way
north of, for me personally, waynorth of six figures a year, man.
And I can tell you, I'mlike paying attention.
I'm dialing it in.
I'm doing what I'mcoached because it hurts.
Yeah.
You know, um, I think, um, hungeris such an important part of it.

(22:48):
I mean, you're growing like crazy with jobtread, and I'm using that as an example.
I think one of the other factors thatkeeps contractors stuck is they achieve
that next level of whatever theirsuccess is and then they get comfortable.
Yeah.
And that you start to read your ownpress clippings and believe that the
hype and to believe you've arrived.

(23:09):
Yeah.
And cool if that's whereyou want to be, great.
But don't bitch about not beingat the next level if you're
gonna take your foot off the gas.
And so I've always found it up.
I don't know if this is healthyor not, but I'm never satisfied.
Yeah.
People would say the same about me.
Right.
And so, um, we could have a recordmonth and I'm like, we're supposed

(23:30):
to, you know, I mean, we're allhere if we're all doing our thing.
Yeah.
So I, I just, I think hunger issomething we don't talk about as much.
The power of necessity.
Like, why do I need to succeed?
Why do I need to win?
Um, what's at stake?
I mean, I just talked to your peoplehere today and it was awesome.
And I was talking about like, whatis the cost of you not showing up?

(23:55):
Bringing everything you have everyday and sometimes bringing everything
you have is an effort thing.
Sometimes it's humility, sometimesit's shutting your mouth long
enough to learn something new.
Um, sometimes it's puttingin one more of something.
I mean, you, you know, um,how do you stay hungry?
Like what's your, is it your,like, are you, are you a guy that.

(24:16):
When you started Job tread, you put outone of those big crazy, hairy audacious
visions, and that's what you're chasingand that keeps you hungry and rounded?
Or is it something else?

Eric (24:26):
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, we, we set out to make job tread the
standard for construction management.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and we can't, youknow, if, if, if we only had, you
know, a thousand people using 'emmean, that's, that's no standard.
I mean, you know, we need to getthis into tens of thousands and then
eventually hundreds of thousands ofpeople's hands, you know, all over
the world to truly be that standard.
You know, I, I think at the end ofthe day though, like, you know what,

(24:48):
what I've, what I've learned, and, youknow, again, I've been very fortunate
to have already sold a business.
Like, you know, you gotta knowyour why, like your purpose.
Like what, like what is the mission,the vision, like where and why are you
doing the things that you're doing?
Like, why, you know, do you get up everysingle day to go, you know, work your
butt off to just deal with, you know.

(25:09):
Fire after fire challenge after challenge.
Like, you know, and, and, you know,hopefully not everyone in the business
has to deal with all the Yeah.
You know, the, the hardest problems.
But like, you know, I think at theend of the day, it's, it's, I just, I
always see the potential to do more,to keep growing, to keep helping,
to keep making a bigger impact.
And, you know, it's, it's somethingthat, you know, I, I try to

(25:30):
help other contractors see too.
Like, they gotta know their why.
You know, like, why are you passionateabout helping, you know, contractors
or helping, you know, homeowners,you know, improve their home.
Yeah.
You know, like, are youimpacting their lives?
Is that, like, you, you seehow you're, you're helping them
live a happier, healthier life.
You're, you know, creating more,you know, family like Yeah.

(25:50):
You know, because I mean, man, beinga contractor is not an easy job.
No.
Yeah.
That is a, you know, it can be abeat down and it's, you know, a very
underappreciated, you know, job that, youknow, I think a lot of times, you know,
in the hardest times, like you gotta beable to fall back on, like remembering
why you're doing the things you're doing.
Yeah.

Tom (26:09):
You gotta fight for your worth, you know?
I mean, that's why we calledit the contractor fight.
You gotta fight thefight between your ears.
But I, I think like, to your point, like
it's easy for the world.
I'm, I grew up hearing you gottago to college, all that other crap.
Right?

(26:29):
It was like propaganda my whole life.
Yeah.
And
when I think about it, like, I wason a board of a bank for a few years.
There was a a, a bank back in Illinoiswas on the board of this bank.
It was long story, we would look.

(26:52):
At certain cases that would come acrossthe board that needed approval and stuff.
Dude, there were more blue collarmillionaires that came across that
board than there were white collar ones.
And whenever, like the majority ofthe homes that would be foreclosed
on and bankrupt these and stuffwere people that were like white
collar, crazy amount of doctors.
Like it blew my mind.
And so

(27:15):
I love what I'm seeing online.
There's all this blue collarstuff and all this Instagram and
YouTube, which is cool, right?
Like I just, the more of it thebetter, because I think painting
the picture, the success that youcan have in the trades is amazing.
Um, but you have to fight for your value.
I mean, and my point wasthis, take us away for a week.

(27:37):
Take contractors, plumbers, roofers,painters, drywall guy, take 'em,
take 'em all away for a week andsee how the country runs, man.
Yeah.
And, and so, you know, we're.
We're always encouragingpeople to, um, to remember that
they're adding massive value.

(27:57):
Like you should be paid more now.
You should not be paid morein the absence of value.
Yeah.
Right.
The value should exceedwhat you make, I believe.
Yep.
Okay.
We always, that's why we doso much free content and all.
I would just wanna give thisvalue, but if you're ethical,
which most of these people are
good men and women ethical,then you have to get paid now.

(28:21):
Like you shouldn't bethe broke contractor.
I'm so tired.
Like, I feel like crazy comparison.
I feel like Dave Ramsey.
It's 'cause all Dave Ramsey does is talkabout the baby steps of getting outta debt
and I'm, I'm like, my version of that israise your prices, get a 50% gross profit.
Pre-qualify your leads, you know, don'tmess with the money, blah, blah, blah.

(28:44):
It's just the broken record.
Because I think we've been brainwashedto think that we have to be competitive.
You know this with your software, 90%of contractors don't know their numbers.
Yeah.
So why the hell will we tryto be competitive when most
people don't know their numbers?
Why?
You know, like bidding the going rate.

(29:06):
That's the thing about these Facebookgroups back that drive me crazy.
Like, Hey, what's the going rate for this?
No.
And I always go cost of goods times atleast two, because that's your number.
Yeah.
Um, I dunno, man, I guess works.

Eric (29:23):
So, I mean, you know, you, you know, I want you to tell us
a little bit about this book.
You know, it's a second book, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, unafraid.
What, what inspired it?
What's it about?
Um,

Tom (29:37):
there's a lot of, um.
Alright, well, what inspired it inthe, in the intro, I basically talk
about how most salespeople suck.
Like, I'm just personally tired ofdealing with crappy salespeople.
I tell a story in the book of, you know,my wife and I, um, our second marriage
for both of us, we wanted to get married.
We had this place picked out thatoverlooked the garden of the gods and all

(30:01):
this beautiful scenery in Colorado Springsa few years ago, scheduled an appointment.
We went in there and this wedding salesplanner person, she's like, I'm telling
you dude, we walk in, introduces us, wesit down, she slides the packages in front
of us and goes, which one do you want?

(30:23):
And Lee and I, my wife, looked at eachother and we're like, WTF, they're
like, was the look on our face.
Like she didn't ask one question.
Had she just said, and this is a wedding,so it's more of the woman, right?
Had she looked at my wife tobe and said, Lee, wave a magic
wand over your wedding day.
Tell me about it.

(30:45):
She would've oozed and gushedfor 15 or 20 minutes and would've
sold herself on the place.
But this woman's arrogance andher nonchalant attitude, and it
was no desire for connection.
I had the checkbook readyto write the deposit.
Yeah.
It was not gonna be cheap.
We actually went to another placedown the road that wasn't as nice

(31:07):
'cause of the way they treated us.
Or I told the story of the book, we weredoing a floor in our basement and this
sales guy made all these assumptionsabout what was expensive to us.
And he never asked one question about whyI was doing the floor had he said, why?
Hey, what?
What's motivating you to do the, the epoxyor whatever you want in the basement?
Right.

(31:28):
He would've heard me talk for an hourof how I broadcast to hundreds of
thousands of contractors around the world.
This place has to look amazing.
We have plans for granite here and copperhere, and this here, and blah, blah, blah.
And but they just don't ask any questions.

Eric (31:42):
Yeah.

Tom (31:43):
And it drives me nuts.
And I, and then having coached so manycontractors and seeing, like when we
teach them how to listen and to peelback the motive and talk about money
and all these other things upfront,you save so much time and you actually

(32:03):
elevate the experience for everybody.
Dude, I spoke if this event,um, many years ago, and this is
another reason I wrote the book.
I was the first speaker of this event.
There's 500 or so contractors in the room.
This, I couldn't believe this happened.
Um,

(32:25):
the guy introducing me.
I'm the first officialspeaker of the conference.
It's like a two, three day thing
and he says, I want youto talk about sales.
And I go, cool.
Right?
He gets up and somebody else wason stage with him for 10 minutes.
We're talking aboutsales is a numbers game.
It's all about it.

(32:45):
Proposals.
You've gotta get proposals on thestreet if you've gotta write proposals,
proposals, proposals, proposals.
Like for 10 minutes.
That was like the introduction to me.
I'm like, do you even know me?
And so I swear to God, dude,they go, Tom Reber music plays.
I walk up on the stage, I get out ofthe middle of the stage and I got my,

(33:05):
I'm about to hit my first slide andI go, well, this is really awkward.
And I hit the button.
My first slide says, you're notin the proposal writing business.
But that's what so many contractors thinkit's about is just gotta write bids.
Gotta write bids, and, and.

(33:27):
Of course there's anumbers game to anything.
Sure.
But what is the cost inyour time and your sanity?
And just the lack of respectthat people have for us.
Like the whole just swing by and leavea bid in the mailbox for the fence.
You know, like, bite me.
You know, like, so we gottafight for that respect.

(33:47):
And, and I believe success in salescomes down to your personal discipline
more than any scripts or word tracks.
It's human connection.
It's really caring about people.
I mean, one of the, I would say if, if Ihad to nail down one thing that's helped
me sell more than anything I've everdone in my whole life is I actually care.
And I know contractors care.

(34:07):
Yeah.
I actually care more about you gettingwhat you need, even if it's not me.
'cause that's the right thing to do.
And so lots of stories in it.
Um, talk about hunting.
You know, too many if you'renot, if you're a salesperson
and you're not hunting.
Prospecting, whatever you wanna call it.
I think you're a poser.
I don't think you're serious about it.

(34:28):
I, I think you're just nothingmore than an order taker.
And that's, again, there's,there's always gray area.
Sure.
'cause it could be your businessmodel, like set or closer or whatever.
You might have, you know, leads come in,you got a marketing department and your
job is an estimator, is to just go outthere and do the I'm I'm with you there.
I get it.
But, but I, I think most contractorsare griping about not selling at the

(34:50):
right rates and wasting a lot of time.
I mean, how much time is windshieldtime and revisions and all that stuff.
So those are all kind of thereasons I wrote the book.
'cause I'm tired ofsalespeople sucking man.
Yeah.
And, um, and I want 'em towin, you know, and sales, I
believe is a perishable skill.
Like hitting the golf ball,firing a weapon, whatever.

(35:11):
Like, if you're not practicing,your skills will diminish.
And, and role plays.
And I mean, dude, it's crazy.
I was talking to a group of, uh.
Two, 300 contractors.
I said, um, and they weremostly like their sales teams.

(35:31):
This was a couple years ago.
I said, who's done a roleplay in the last seven days?
Like three hands went up.
Wow.
I said, who's done a roleplay in the last 30 days?
Like eight hands went up and there'slike 200 contractors in the room.
I'm like, that's just unacceptable.
Now, can you, I mean, if you're agolfer, you go to the range every day.

Eric (35:53):
That's, that's what I love about Battleground.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's, you know, again, I'vebeen sort of part of the group, you
know, fly the wall, if you will.
But like, I mean, I, I, and I, andI, and part of a lot of these groups,
and I've never seen a group likeBattleground where it's, it's not just,
Hey, show up and we're gonna have a talk.

(36:14):
It's like you, you actuallyare encouraging the members.
To find a time to meet and to role play.
Yeah.
And they're getting the reps inyou, you have facilitated a way
for them to, to work out, you know,that sales skill, if you will.
And I, I've never seenanother group like it.
And I can also tell you like from themember's perspective, like it, it has

(36:37):
like they, they, so many times I hearthat that single handedly has helped them
take their business to the next level.
It's helped them to beable to close deals Yeah.
When they might not have otherwise evengotten past the first conversation.
Yeah.
You know, so I, I just, I,I love your focus on sales,

(36:59):
but also like practice mix.
Perfect.
Perfect practice makes perfect,perfect practice makes perfect.
I mean, so you, you, you can tell themall these slides all day long, but like,
and that's what happens on a lot of these,these, these coaching groups, right?
Like your coach tells you a bunch ofstuff, some of it sticks, some of it
doesn't, some of it gets implemented,some of it doesn't, you know, but like

(37:20):
with your program, you're actuallyfacilitating concreting that new
action, those new behaviors, thosehabits, you know, become second nature.
And it's, it's so much better forthem to practice in a, in a, in a
training facility than to practiceon a real, live, you know, prospect.
Bingo.

Tom (37:38):
We have every weekday, we have a live sales training role play call with one
of our coaches five days a week, unlessit's a holiday in the United States.
Then we have this whole role playportal, if you want to call it that.

(37:58):
This tracker wheremembers log in role plays.
We have a whole beltsystem like martial arts.
You get your, you gotta, you have to do,earn 14 points in your first seven days
in battleground to get your green belt.
Nice.
So from the day you commit todoing your first role play, you
got seven days to get 14 points.
And it's meant to be hard, right?

(38:19):
'cause you have to get that first level.
We see a direct correlation.
Yeah.
We train on some marketing and numbersand leadership and all this other crap.
Right?
I'm telling you the number one thingwhen I go down the roster of the
hundreds of contractors that are inthe program and go, he's making money.
He's making money, he's making money.
You go to the belt tracker,they're stack and role plays.

(38:40):
Yeah.
It, it success leaves clues.
Yeah.
Like that's one of the clues.
Um, so yeah.
Every day you gotta get like 200points to get your black belt.
You gotta go through two levelsof our, of Tim and Derek to
whoever our two top sales coaches.
And to your point.
If you're not role-playing and puttingyourself in uncomfortable situations,

(39:00):
you're practicing on live clients.
Yep.
And it's costing you hundreds of thousandsof dollars a year as a contractor.
Yeah.
Um, like, and so we encourage on the,on the, we call it a go gay calls is
what we call, it's a training ground,spartan training ground for young men.
It was like the ego gate enter.
Um, we're like, we'regonna be hard on you.

(39:25):
We're gonna be the jerk con customer.
Right.
We're gonna throw the objectionsin your face so that when you're
doing it in real life, it's not likethe first time you've been there.
No.
You know, when somebody says to me,like, most of us, I used to do this,
you go on the defensive when youget an objection, like you're a lot
higher than the other contractors.
Right.

(39:45):
Like, we all get that.
Every business gets that.
I used to defend.
Well, you know, we got lots ofexperience and we won this award
and, you know, uh, overhead, youknow, we got overhead and gas isn't
cheap and you just start justifying.
Yeah, defending.
They don't wanna hear that.
And so, one of the ways that, I liketo flip that, and this isn't meant to

(40:09):
be done in a way, but why am I the onedefending my position and my price?
I want you to defend whyyou think that's that way.
So I, I get this all the time.
Like, Hey, your price is wayhigher than the other guys.
You need to acknowledge it, affirm it.
Like, Hey man, I get it.
You know, things always cost, you know,more than we think they should cost.

(40:31):
You know, just outta curiosity.
You know what, what makes yousay that we're too expensive
now you have to defend it now.
Or, Hey, you know, Eric, I getthat man, you know, things.
That's one of my go-to lines,like when price is too.
I'm like, yeah, you know, everytime I go to buy something, it seems
like it's more money than I want.
I'm just curious, what doyou think we should do next?

(40:52):
What do you think our next move is?
Sometimes they'll say,do you offer financing?
Can we do the project in phases?
It's not always a no.
Yeah.
But when you're putting your fistsup and you're defending it and
you're like trying to fight back andjustify totally changes the energy.
Yeah.
Um, or what's, what's the other one?
I, I gotta think about it.

(41:12):
God choke me.
Um, and decision is the worst.
Yeah.
You know, Hey, Eric, you know, I get it.
This, this is a big decision.
It's not cheap.
I'm cool with you thinking about it,but, you know, one of the things I found
is when somebody tells me, you haveto think about it, they usually don't
have the information that they need.

(41:36):
And I feel like I might havedropped the ball on something here.
What, what information do you feellike I missed that's important to you?
It's collaborative.
Yeah.
And again, at, at theend of the day, I really.
I try to remove myself fromthe result being me winning.
Yeah.
When I sell, uh, we have so many peoplethat have joined our program, like

(41:56):
Battleground and stuff, dude that Italked to when I was doing my own sales
calls years ago that have joined theprogram because I didn't push them.
They're like, it's not the right time.
And I know there's a lot of salesguru trainers and crap out there
that drive me crazy that, that areall macho and all this stuff, and
they're all about like, you know what,what is in the car industry, right.

(42:20):
That you don't let theclient leave the lot?
No, I drive off the lot.
You're not gonna Yeah.
Like, alright, I, I get it in one sense.
Yeah.
But I used to sell that way.
I used to sell replacement windows andit was a total scale and I felt icky.

Eric (42:32):
Yeah.

Tom (42:33):
And so I just, I'm actually cool if you want to think about it.
I can't tell you how many projectsI've sold as a contractor.
How many things I've sold inthe fight, because I was, I kept
the, the relationship strongbecause I didn't try to push you.
Yeah.
So,

Eric (42:52):
well, and I think, you know, again, it's, it's when you quit
just thinking in your own headand thinking about me, me, me.
You know, what's best for me?
How am I gonna get the sale?
And you stop and start listening andmake it about the customer's experience.
You know, I believe that the successof the project is gonna be all about
how the customer felt from the verymoment they landed on your website.

(43:16):
They picked up the phone,they first talked to you
throughout that sales process.
Like you set the tone for theentire rest of the project.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and so like, I just, I, Ireally, I love how the approach isn't
just like, you know, Hey, we need to,you know, know how to combat everything.
It's just you're so good athelping them learn to just stop
trying to mentally figure out.

(43:37):
Just ask them, flip it back to them.
Yeah.
Well, why do you feel like that?
Well, what did I not giveyou enough information?
Is there something that I could do tohelp you, you know, make this decision?
Like, you know, it's, it's, it's just likelistening, you know, and salespeople often
just wanna talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.
And it's people's gotta

Tom (43:55):
stop talking in the sales process is a, I believe, a
reflection of your training.
Like, and this isn't, I'm notplaying like some psychological game
here, but like the, this is true.
Like, if, if I'm talking, I'mlosing in a sales relationship.
Sure.
Like, now there'sappropriate times to talk.
But most salespeople, they're,they're bragging and they're making

(44:19):
it about all the reasons you shouldbuy from us, where it's about people
buy for their reasons, not mine.
Yeah.
You know, so, Hey Eric, you know, you're,you're talking to, you said you're talking
to a couple other contractors and stuff.
Totally get it.
This is a big project.
So, um, outta curiosity, let's fastforward to the end of the kitchen remodel.

(44:39):
You're cutting a final check tosomebody and they're driving off
into the sunset after the job's done.
How you gonna know youhired the right guy?
That's their reasons, you know?
Right.
It's their reasons.
I tell this story in the book whereI I, this guy's reason for hiring my
painting company back in the day washe didn't want his wife to go through

(45:04):
another experience where she had tobabysit a group of grown men painting
their house had nothing to do with price.
And that's what most of us say,that aren't honest with ourselves.
Like when somebody doesn'thire us, they're like, oh, they
went with somebody cheaper.
That's not always the case.
Now, you didn't connect, but when youconnect, you command higher prices.
And back to what we were talking aboutearlier about creating content, when

(45:25):
you guys create more content, you'reeducating, you're, you're positioning
yourself as the expert in your industry.
Yeah.
And when you're positioned thatway, you get less price resistance.
'cause people arealready seeing the value.
So all this works together,um, in the sales process, man,
but I, I get fired up about itbecause I, it's low hanging fruit.

(45:46):
Yeah.
It is so simple.
Detach yourself from the outcome.
I had a sales trainer years ago thatwas like, my whole goal is just in that
conversation with a possible clientis just to figure out if it makes
sense for us to take the next step.
Are we a good fit?
So genuinely,

Eric (46:04):
you know, I, I hear a lot of times when people are considering
should they hire a coach or not?
Mm-hmm.
You know, the, the, this, this fallacy oflike, well, I can't, I can't afford it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, or you know, why, you know, I,I got all these other bills, how can I go?
And, you know, they,they view it as a luxury.
Yeah.
They view it as something that's,you know, just, you know, it's, it's

(46:25):
this like, you know, it, it's viewedas a cost instead of an investment.
Mm-hmm.
How do you help a contractor understand.
You know, again, you can startoff in the contractor business
school, you know, you can, you canbump up to, to the battleground.
I mean Yeah.
We're talking, you know, a thousandbucks for contractor business school,
8,000 bucks for, for battleground.
You know, like, how, how do youhelp them understand that, you

(46:46):
know, this, this truly is aninvestment that will pay dividends.

Tom (46:51):
Yeah.
This is one of the crazythings about coaching.
Okay.
And I'll use a fitness exper, uh, example.
If I join the gym, hire thetrainer, get the workout, get
the diet plan, and don't do it.
Uh, trainer was shitty.

(47:13):
It's crazy.
But like that.
And what we do is dependenton somebody doing the work.
Sure.
So it is only a waste of moneythat you can't afford if you're
not going to do the work.
So we count the costs with people.
I'm like, Eric, you gotta be willingto put in three to five hours a week.
The training.

(47:34):
Okay.
You don't have to be on every call.
We have a stupid amount ofcalls we just talked about.
We have daily sales, or you don't, you'renot supposed to be there every day.
Sure.
But if you're not willing to implement,then you are wasting your money.
So I tell people like, if you'renot really willing to do the
work, then please don't do it.
I will also say though, for thosethat go, they can't afford it.

(47:56):
You're already spendingthe money in your mistakes.
You're lacking.
That's been my experience.
Like I was already dropping sixfigures a year on crap that wasn't
moving my business forward, you know?
And then once I collapsed timeand learned from somebody else and
implemented those things, like Istopped wasting the money and I was

(48:17):
investing it, and then I was growing.
So I I, and that's like backto Battleground for instance.
It, it's like, call it 25 bucks a day.
You're already spending at least $25 aday as a contractor driving to people
to meet people in the sales process thatyou shouldn't, that aren't a good fit.
You're already spending more than $25 aday because your numbers aren't right.

(48:40):
Because you haveinefficiencies in the field.
You're not job costing,you're not training your team.
Um, I mean, you, we cango on and on all day.
Aren can you afford not to?
Right.
So, and that's what our, a lot of ourlong me longtime members will tell you,
they're like, it, it would cost me money.
We just had a guy, and I'mgonna read this if that's okay.
Go for it.

(49:02):
So we had a member, really gooddude, he was in the program.
Um, this is fresh on my brain'cause it was last night.
He posted it.
He was in the program and hewas doing, uh, he had grown
from like half a million to 1.2.

(49:23):
Right.
He.
Then he left and then the next twoyears he did like 800 or under.
Okay.
And wasn't making as muchmoney and he just rejoined.
And he goes, I wanna share my experiencewith a potential high end client.
At first, he was so demanding andready to send me to the bleachers.
I asked for pictures and heagreed with a little skepticism.

(49:45):
Once I received them and studiedthem, I proceeded to make the call.
He was in disbelief and, uh, how Iwas asking so many detailed questions
and keep demanding, and he keptdemanding just to have me come by and
that they were ready to move forward,which prospects lie to us, right?
The guy was following our process.

(50:05):
I made sure to continue to takeand control of the conversation.
And once I asked permission toshare numbers, and of course
you know it, uh, you can gimme abald cart, Jeffs with pictures.
And I said, yep.
Originally my number was 18 7 58.
I knew I had to add the PETA clause.
That's a pain in the ass.
For those that don't.
I, uh, final bid was 20,500.

(50:27):
And by the way, he had never wentto the property without blinking.
I have an appointment tomorrowto sign a contract and collect
a 50% deposit with this guy.
And this is why I'm back in this program,just in case you're wondering because
he had gotten, he wasn't as sharp.
Sure.
And so we see it all the time.

(50:50):
You've been in a group,you see what's going on.
Like, I came here, I was selling 300 granda year at no profit, and within 12 months
I was doing 2.5 at a 50% gross profit.
Like, but they put thework at, you know, so,

Eric (51:05):
you know, we've, it, it's, it's interesting 'cause you know, I obviously
have a very unique vantage point whereI can see across thousands of business.
Right.
But like, you know, and, and, andbeing part of the group, I, I know
who's part of Battleground, who's partof contractor fighting with you guys.
And like I can see firsthand.
A direct correlation between themgetting involved and it usually will

(51:26):
say it takes like a month or two,but then boom, like the trajectory
of their business just shoots up.
Yeah.
You know, and it's, and it'sjust so glaringly obvious.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I, I think a lot of timespeople just, they, they don't, you
know, they, they don't realize that theyreally are spinning their wheels and

(51:47):
they're wasting a lot more time or, youknow, we don't have to call it wasting,
but like, it takes 'em a lot longerto achieve those milestones in their
business' growth because they're notefficiently operating and executing, you
know, they're, they're, they're just,you know, and, and, and I'd be willing to
bet if we would, you know, go do a studythat like directly looked at the people

(52:08):
who implement and do the role plays.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Just like you said, the people thatare putting it into action every day.
Yeah.
I'll bet we would see aneven stronger correlation.
Yeah.
Between those and the performanceand, and again, like almost, I think
all of the coaches, I mean they've,you know, that know them fairly well.
They've been on job like I, I can tellyou, like they have just crushed it.

(52:29):
Yeah.
And they have crushed it by implementingand spending years of practicing.
And now like they, they can afford tohave the time to help others be able
to achieve that same level of success.
I, if, if that doesn'tspeak volumes for itself.
Yeah.
The fact that they can now continue torun a multimillion dollar businesses
while helping others because they'veseen how impactful that's been.

(52:53):
I mean, it's, it's just such an a,a unique opportunity to get involved
with those people that like you want toaspire to, to grow, to reach that level.

Tom (53:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, again, I'm so proud of the fightteam, uh, like you're proud of yours here.
I just, I get the beauty of havingthe behind the scenes conversations.
We have our, like, we'll have our, ourmonthly coaching team call where we just
kind of get on the same page and theconversations that happen there are like,

(53:27):
dude, so and so is really struggling.
You know, he's got, like, we knowyou, he's got some, this is a group
coaching program who we know you like.
He's like, yeah, he is, got someissues going on home with his wife.
You know, they're reallystruggling with this.
Um, and the conversation will be, howcan we help this guy for 20 minutes?

(53:49):
Eight of us are going,how do we help Bill?
Um, that's what I'm so proud of our team.
Like, it's incredible.
Um, you know, I used to, I used to getmad at the coaches for this because
I, I tried to set the expectationthat this is not one-on-one coaching.

Eric (54:05):
Yeah.

Tom (54:06):
Right.
And.
No matter how I tried to get my coaches tostop reaching out to people individually.
'cause they care so much,they're just gonna do it.
And they basically told me to pound sand.
They're like, dude, if we see somebodystruggling, we're reaching out to 'em.

Eric (54:20):
I mean, I think the entire community throughout you've built embodies that.
I mean, I, I I, I have seencountless times, you know, and,
and the battleground group and the,and the contractor fight group.
Even like where, you know,anyone who is having a, some
sort of personal life challenge.
Like you guys come out in fullforce, above and beyond mm-hmm.
Like bending over backwardsto help lift that person

Tom (54:42):
up.
Yeah.
Well to your point, we have a guy,um, you know, him, um, I keep it
confidential because it's not a bad thing.
I just don't wanna draw attentionto if he didn't want this, um.
He's been in the program for years, grewfrom like, you know, 500 grand a year,
making no money to like three pointsomething now where his accountant's

(55:04):
like, dude, you're making too much cash.
All right.
Swear to God like this.
He told me like he screenshotsme as a bank account and
his net worth and all that.
It's crazy.
I found out about two or three monthsago, him and I were having a conversation.
He's a member.
He's a member, not a coach yet.

(55:26):
He spends an average of 30, uh,almost 30 hours a month calling
struggling members in the group.
Wow.
And just offering an ear and counsel.
He's an older dude, greatguy, and just loving him.
That's like at the risk of soundingcheesy, like if somebody were to be

(55:50):
like, what's the difference betweenthe fight and everything else?
I'd be like.
We love you in an uncommon way.
We truly love.
Sometimes it's a tough love, right?
But, um, and I know we do alot of yelling and screaming on
the podcast and this and that.
I'm a teddy bear.
I really am.
I just care so much.
Yeah, and that's what I meanby the DNA of the fight.
Even the members, they're like soloving and giving to each other.

(56:13):
Man, I, I'm blown away.
You, I am truly blownaway by that community.

Eric (56:19):
I mean, I, I gotta believe though, it, it, it starts with you.
You've set the tone and, and I,and, and I know you, I know that you
would reach out to anyone that youknew was going through a hard time.
You know, you, you, you've evencoined this whole, you know,
UITs, unintentional touches.
Yeah.
Just reaching out to people, checkingin with them, showing them that you

(56:39):
actually value them, you care aboutthem, you build a relationship with them.
You want to know how they'redoing, how are things going?
And look, sometimes that may resultin more business getting done, but
like, it's because you care, Tom.
It's, you know, you, you, you, you wearyour heart on your sleeve just like I do.
And we're passionate people.
I appreciate that.
And, and I think that has, you know,that that is the, the, the, the, the
inspiration for this whole community and,and, and it's set the tone for everyone.

(57:03):
So I'm not surprising theleast to hear about that.
Well,

Tom (57:07):
yeah.
Sometimes that heart of thesleeve gets us in trouble.
Oh, absolutely.
But like, just so youknow, I'm not kidding.
Yesterday, 7:45 PM right?
Yeah.
I landed here in Dallas.
I text this couple, I go, it's Reber.
Just thinking about youguys and praying for you.
We love you.
He replies, thank you.
That means a lot to us.
We feel the love and theprayers, and they're great.

(57:27):
They're going through a hard time.
We're grateful to have people likeyou in our corner hole ball as well.
I said, you two have been onmy mind like crazy recently.
I said, things are good here.
Actually just got to Dallasto speak to job tread.
Let's talk sometimes soon, sometimes soon.
And he is like, got it.
Like, this is, you know, people, peopleare like, what do you do in your time?

(57:49):
Working time?
Like, I have, one of the things I'velearned, like, yeah, I have a plan for
the day and stuff, but when I've learned,um, that when somebody shows up on my
mind, that's a sign for me to reach out.
I, I just, and this couple literally overthe last couple days, they've been in and

(58:12):
outta my mind and I actually probably tooktwo days too long to send that message.
And then I'm on the plane cominghere and I thought about 'em again.
Um, I got a lot of things that are tough.
I've just been on my mind like I pray.
For our members.
I pray for our coaches.
I pray for our community.

(58:32):
Um, like this morning, you know, I gotup and went for a run, you know, before I
came over here and did some calisthenicsand stuff outside and this crazy thing
you have here called humidity and, um,felt good, but it feels good on my joints.
Actually.
It's, it's nice as you're getting older,but like I will spend, like, I'm, I'm

(58:54):
just going, I'm like, oh, so and somember, and I'll just be like, God, I
don't know what he is going through,which, put 'em on my head just now.
I just thought of the person help him.
I pray for the people on my team.
I pray for our vendors.
I pray like for our industry,I literally do, like, I just, I
feel like my, my life is just anongoing prayer, if that makes sense.

(59:18):
Like, I don't go like 30minutes a day or whatever.
It's just as I am goingthroughout the day.
Um.
I'm realizing I really don'thave any clue what I'm doing.
Um, one of the things I told theteam, I'm closing the loop here man.
Um, 'cause I squirrel out on this.
I told our team that if we're gonnabe accused for anything, let's never

(59:41):
be accused for anyone out lovingus the way we love our people.
Nope.
Like each other.
And, and listen.
We drop the ball, we bump heads,you know, our in internally with our
team, we don't always agree on things.
Sure.
Um, man, I've had some realknock 'em out, drag 'em out times
with some of our coaches andwhere we didn't see eye to eye.

(01:00:02):
But you know what, the more openand honest you are with each
other, you can trust each other.
Yeah.
'cause you know there's no bs.
Yeah.
Um, and that's one of the things Ilearned when I partnered many years
ago with Steve Shinholser when westarted the Contractor Sales Academy.
Our first conversation about, hesays, I don't know if we're gonna
do anything, but we do anything youneed to make a vow to me right now

(01:00:22):
that we will never BS each other.
Like, I don't care how ugly it is.
We need to be able to speak our mind now.
And, um, so anyway, man, I justget fired up about this stuff so.

Eric (01:00:33):
Well, like it's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's awesome to just again,
be able to spend this time with you.
I mean, you, you've built something thatreally is very incredible, you know, uh,
the, the impact of what, you know, justthese ideas and these, you know, podcasts
and videos that, you know, you, youstarted many years ago just putting out
there and if you just, the consistencyand the devotion to continuing to do that.

(01:00:54):
I mean, like that's, that is exactly whatthis industry needs is more role models.
Yeah.
That are showing people and givingthem the belief that they can do it.
You know, when they don't believein themselves and they don't
have anyone else around them likesaying, you can do it, you can be
successful, you can build a business.
Like, I mean, that, that'swhen the world goes to shit.

(01:01:16):
You know, but you are there being thatvoice, you know, sometimes a, a loud
voice, you know, sometimes having toyell at people, but like it, people
need this wake up call, you know?
And it's, you know, and it, but it's,it's, it's a wake up call with love.
Yeah.
It's a wake up call with, like, you,you genuinely want the best for people.
And there, there's no question about that.
You know?
And I think it's just been really neatto see the community that that has

(01:01:38):
formed around you and, and, and tosee other people embodying that and,
and leading, leading without you evenneeding to hire them or needing to ask
them to lead and helping others likethat, that truly is a sign of greatness.
And I think at the end of the day,like that's what this industry needs.
I mean, I, I say it all the time,but a rising tide lifts all boats.
Like, yeah.
That, that is exactly what we need tobring back, you know, the dignity to

(01:02:02):
the trades and to, and to help thembe respected and to help everyone
understand that like, you know, they,they, they, they, they're earning.
They're, they're keep and theydeserve to make good money.
They deserve to be out, spendthe time with their families.
They deserve to, to be able tohave teens who can also go home
and eat and live happily andhealthy and financially stable.

(01:02:22):
And I think that's like this, thislike this spark that you created many
years ago, like to see it continuingto grow is just really exciting.
And, you know, I, I'm excited for all thejob tread community to keep partnering
with you and to keep working with yourprogram because I believe that, you
know, again, like you gotta have, youknow, the, the, the right guidance, the
right leadership, vision, direction,you gotta have the right tools and

(01:02:43):
then you gotta put it into action.
And, you know, at the end ofthe day, I think, you know, this
is something that just, it, itreally is making a big impact.
And I just, I appreciate youand everything you've done to,
to, to make this such a success.

Tom (01:02:55):
Can you say all that again?
'cause that was really nice.
So, and I really appreciate that.
It's, you know, it's funny, um,
it's on my heart to share this becauseone of the things I hear from, from, uh.
A lot of clients from time to time islike, um, man, I'm working so hard to
build this business, and then my top guyleaves and goes, starts another business.

(01:03:19):
You, you know what I'm saying?
Like it's, and so they don'twant to invest in their people.
They don't want to train,they don't wanna, whatever.
I'm saying this 'cause it, likeI said, when something's on
my heart, I just gotta say it.
So maybe somebody listeningto this, it applies, right?
Um, so many of my direct competitors nowand their coaching teams, we trained and

(01:03:41):
there was a point in time I want to giveNeil our CEO some credit on this, where
it was starting to rub me the wrong way.
Like I was just, I, I was getting alittle too scarcity minded about it
or whatever, and he called me on it.
And this goes back to the vision.
You talk about you have to have a strongwhy and a vision and all this other stuff.
And, um, and he said, well, Tom,if, if it's really your vision.

(01:04:08):
To bring respect and dignity backto the traits and what wouldn't you
be happy that you're producing allthese other competitors and leaders?
Yeah.
And it was like a gut punch, man.
'cause I'm like, is myvision really valid or not?
And I listen, I'm plenty humanand there are times where it
bothers me 'cause I'm competitive.

(01:04:29):
Right.
Um, but just having those relationshipsin your life where you know,
somebody can tell you the truth.
Like, dude, I'm calling bs.
You say it's about respect and dignity.
You create all this, you knowwhat, what's Myron Golden calls?
The free content.
He calls it community service.
He says it's not free 'cause yougotta spend time consuming it.
Yeah.
And I love that.

(01:04:50):
You know, he's like, youdo all this to help people.
So why would you care if therewere more competitors out there
on, on a similar mission tryingto help contractors get better?
Sure.
So for everybody that's listening,that's like you're trying
to grow and scale your team.
I've had this happen.
Top guy leaves whatever, theygo start their own thing.
Support them.
Right.
You don't have to be best friends.

(01:05:11):
I get that.
But like, I don't, I don't badmouth them.
I want them to succeed because ifthe, the mission is truly Yeah.
I mean, dude, they're like, you,we were talking before, there's so
many people in this world to help.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
The ego in me would love to serve 'em all.
Yeah.
But I know I'm not a fit for everybody.
People don't like my languageand they don't like my face.

(01:05:33):
They don't like my foundationalprinciples that we coach 'em.
Totally cool.
Right.
Somebody you're gonna resonatewith somebody, so get help.
Yeah.
So for whatever

Eric (01:05:42):
that's worth, man.
No, I, I, I totally agree.
It's, you know, and, and Itell people, you know, look,
you gotta go find your tribe.
Yeah.
You know, and, and, and the tribewants people who are gonna be a
good fit and you want to find theright tribe where you're a good fit.
And it's about kind ofmaking those, those matches.
And, you know, at the endof the day, it, it, it's.
Same thing.
I mean, if, if, you know, for us, ifa, if another competitor's product

(01:06:05):
is better, you know, suited for them,then we tell 'em, and at the end of the
day, you know, maybe one day we'll beable to be in a position to help you.
But it's like, I'd rather, youknow, save their time and money and
point 'em in the right direction.
I think, you know, when people focusmore on just doing what's right mm-hmm.
Creating, you know, just, just helpingpeople learn and, and, and just, you know,

(01:06:26):
giving the education, giving things awaywithout expecting anything in return.
You know, I, I feel like that justalways seems to come back, you know,
tenfold later, you know, with whenyou, when you just do right by others.
It just, it, it, it brings moreand more, you know, people to you.
And that's, you know, case in point,contractor fired with over 20,000

(01:06:47):
people, you know, millions of, of viewsand, and just all of the audience that
keeps coming right back, you know,to consume the content and, and the
training and to, and to listen tothe message that you've given them.
I mean, it's, it's, it'sclearly making a huge impact.
And, you know, whether, whetherthey sign up for a program
here or there, like Right.
You know, the bigger pictureis like the impact that you've

(01:07:07):
made is just tremendous.

Tom (01:07:09):
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate that man,and appreciate the support,
the relationship we have.
And, and, uh, again, super proud of whatyou're doing here, man, at Job tread.
You're, you are killing it.
I proud.
And I know I challengedyou today in my talk.
I'd be like, I'm gonna call Eric out.
You guys are rising.
And I'm like, don't you get comfortable.
I know you wouldn't, but I knewif I picked on the top dog in

(01:07:30):
the room, they'd get the message.
Yeah.
So, 'cause you took it well, youwere like, I'm with you, man.
Yeah.
Like, and they need to see that, right?
Like, it's easy to go, oh, you've arrived.
Minute you think you've arrived.
I think you're done know.
So must've been good, man.
I appreciate it.
Hey, great talking, Tom.
You got it.
Thanks for having me.

Eric (01:07:48):
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please
contact [e-mail].

(01:08:08):
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.