From Burnout to Builder of Leaders | Mike Claudio of WinRate Consulting

Meet Mike Claudio, owner of WinRate Consulting in Charlotte, NC. After walking away from corporate burnout, Mike built a business helping contractors scale with clarity, leadership, and systems that work. In this episode, he breaks down the three biggest reasons construction companies lose momentum, how to build core values that actually guide your team, and the biggest mistake leaders make when casting a vision. Plus, his 4-step hiring process and time management mindset that helps him lead multiple companies, including a custom home business with $60 million in annual revenue.

In this episode, you will learn:

• The 3 biggest pitfalls that throw construction businesses off course
• Why most leaders miss the mark on vision, and how to do it right
• How to incorporate core values into your business
• Claudio’s 4-step hiring method that filters out bad fits fast
• A time management mindset for running multiple initiatives

Listen to the episode to learn more.

Resources:

Learn more about WinRate Consulting here.

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[instrumental music plays] Welcome to thepodcast where we take a deep dive into the

(00:02):
stories behind construction businessleaders. We will share how they got
started, how they found success, and thelessons learned along the way. I'm your
host, Erik Fortenberry. Welcome to BuilderStories. What's going on
everybody? Welcome back. I'm reallyexcited. I have got Mike Claudio here with

(00:23):
me today. You know, Mike has beeninvolved in countless construction
businesses. He's got coaching companies.He's got a marketing organization. Like,
you know, this guy has, has seen it all,done it all. I'm really excited to have
special guest Mike Claudio. Welcome toBuilder Stories, man.
Thanks, man. It's, it's cool to see you,like, taking your authority, you know, to
more of the public, right? You're kinda inthe face behind the brand, per se, of the

(00:45):
JobTread ecosystem. But seeing you, youknow, engaging with the client base and
really putting your face and yourknowledge out there, so it's just been
cool to watch, man. So, congratulations onthat.
Hey, I, I appreciate that, and, uh, youknow, I really appreciate everything you
do to help, help our clients continue togrow and improve their business, their
operations. Uh, but look, w- before we getinto all that, why don't you kinda give
us, give us a little bit of background. Imean, you know, again, y- y- you've been

(01:07):
involved in a lot of constructioncompanies, taking them over, running them,
part of their leadership teams. You know,kinda what, what's your story though?
-What led you to, to even get into that?-Yeah. [laughs] So, uh, my career started
in corporate America, and after about nineyears, I kinda got burnt out on, like,
the corporate ladder of sorts and kindathe red tape. And I'm not, like... I'm not

(01:28):
a politically incorrect person, but I'mnot, like, a play-the-game guy. I'm a
non... I'm, like, a no-nonsense, no-BSguy, and that just doesn't work in
corporate as well. And, uh... So, I leftthat to help a buddy grow his remodeling
company. A couple years later, helped aroofing company grow pretty substantially
as a key employee, and then realized Ireally appreciated the process of coming

(01:49):
in, analyzing, and evolving a company tohelp it grow. And people would start
asking for help. This is, like, 2017,2018, and I'm like, "I need to monetize my
time." So, I just, like... WinrateConsulting started. Um, I just started
coaching people one conversation at atime, one invoice at a time. And, and, uh,
it evolved wildly over the last, youknow, five-plus years, six years. And, uh,

(02:13):
it turned into a pretty substantialentity. You know, we have eight or nine
coaches on staff now. We c- we, we helpover a hundred customers a- at a right now
t- g- any, every, any given month betweenall of our products and services. And y-
we've impacted thousands of companies overthe last five years. I've personally
coached over 300, um, constructioncompanies that time. Anywhere from, like,
a half a million dollars to my largest wasabout $90 million. And, like, I've seen a

(02:38):
lot and I've learned a lot by doing andgrowing companies from the inside. I've
learned a lot by helping companies from aconsultant coach perspective. Yeah, I
wrote a book two, three years ago, starteda YouTube channel, t- uh, the podcast. I
just got really big into deployinginformation to impact people. And it's
just, like, as one entity or one place orone ecosystem kind of evolved, I'd add

(03:02):
another, right? So, that, that happenedwith Winrate. It happened with the
marketing entity of what we do now. We dodone-for-you marketing services, like
website SEO, lead generation stuff. Youknow, it, it... The fractional CFO stuff
we brought in-house. It turned into somefractional leadership stuff where I'm
currently, like, running the day-to-day ofsome pretty substantial construction
companies. But overall, what happened in2017 was I made a decision that I am more

(03:27):
passionate about helping people at scalethan I was running any individual company.
And so, I'm a serial entrepreneur out ofsheer boredom. I just get bored quickly,
and then I like to build things, I like todevelop a leadership team that can run it
without me, and like to move on to thenext thing. Like, I'm, I'm kinda there.
And as it's evolved over the last two orthree years specifically, you know,

(03:49):
building a coaching staff beneath me wasnecessary for me to evolve into this next
season. And so, that's where we're at now.Like, I coach very few companies directly
inside of Winrate at this point. I lead aleadership team. We have about 22
employees on that side. I also am the COOof about a $60 million custom home builder
here in Greenville. We support SouthCarolina, North Carolina, and Tennessee,

(04:11):
but y- we'll do about $60 million thisyear with about 75 employees. And I also
support and, and help run a, a roofingcompany doing eight figures in Dallas. I'm
there every month, you know, supportingthat team.
-[laughs]-And what I've learned i- in that time and
kinda where, I think, where we really haveconnected is, you know, I'm really... I'm
exceptional at helping people developleadership. And, and I think you're

(04:34):
phenomenal. I think, like, the culture atJobTread and the way that you come in as a
leader and elevate the leaders aroundyou. And even... You know, I spoke to your
boot camp last week, or maybe it was twoweeks ago at this point, about leadership
specifically. And it was cool 'cause yourleadership team was in the room, and,
like, they got, they got to take somethingfrom it as well. But, like, developing
leaders is what I do. Like, I am aleadership expert, I'm a communication

(04:54):
expert, and I have found a path thatallows me to massively impact companies at
a large... A- a- not just individually,but a lotta companies at once due to my
ability to, to develop independentleaders, not... In my own company as well
as other companies. And that's ultimatelyhow you scale. You cannot scale without
leadership. You cannot scale your impact.You cannot scale your money. You cannot

(05:15):
scale your time. You can't scale anythingwithout your ability to develop leaders.
And, like, that's kinda the niche I'm inright now. I'm doing it in construction,
but Mike Claudio is a leadership expert,in my opinion. I hate saying that. Like,
I, I, I, I, I've had to learn to humblyaccept the fact that I'm really, really
good at this thing. Right? Like, you'rereally good at app development and scaling

(05:38):
companies. Like, you're an expert at appdevelopment. Like, that's what you've done
and, and successfully. You have the, youhave the, the attributes and the accolades
to back that up, right? I, I've struggledfor a long time believing that I'm great
at what I do. And, like, there...Humbleness to an extreme can be
counterintuitive. Um, but I think, at thispoint, I've proven through what I've been

(06:02):
able to develop and, and, and accomplishover the last five years, like, I am an
absolute a- like, leadership expert. Andthat is what has allowed me to build all
of the different things that we do at thispoint.
Man, I can, I can attest to, to that. Youknow, again, I've been a long time
follower, consumer of your content. Uh,you know, I, I think that it's, it's been
really exciting to see, you know, ourclients who, you know, you, you, you know,

(06:26):
whether met at, at one of our events orjust in our online community or kind
however it is, like, to see them. And,and, and some of them even at the point
of, like, trying to decide are they gonnakeep going or not, to joining, you know,
your group, going out to your quarterlyevents, you know, s- surrounding
themselves with other, you know, reallydedicated, driven, motivated people and

(06:47):
then being able to, you know, to, to learnand be coached from you and that
community. To like, you know, six monthslater, it's like they're a whole new
person. And, and, and they're back, like,back on the horse, you know, kicking ass,
driving, you know, progress forward forthe business. Like, it's just like, to, to
me, like, that's like the most rewardingthing you could ever see is, like,
somebody who's just, like, at the point ofjust breaking and, and being able to come

(07:10):
out such a stronger person after, youknow, a few months of, of, you know,
really, you know, devoting themselves tobecoming a better leader, a better, you
know, uh, company as a whole. Like, justhow do we keep growing? And, and
recognizing, like, you can't do it alone.You can't do everything by yourself. Like,
you gotta build a team, and you gottafigure out what are the things that I need

(07:31):
to focus on and what shouldn't I focuson? And I think you're really good at
helping people understand that. And at theend of the day, they're like... A- again,
like, you have the real experiencemanaging construction companies. Like, you
have seen them and worked with them. Youunderstand those pitfalls, and that just,
like, it, it, it helps people to be ableto just skip over so many of those hard

(07:54):
lessons because they can learn them, youknow, through someone else's experience.
And it just saves them so much time and somuch, like, you know, challenge by being
able to, like, you know, join this, thisgroup that you've got and this community
that, that, that you're building. I mean,I think it's phenomenal, Mike.
No, like, and I, I... You, you're gonnaresonate this, but every business owner is
going to pay tuition to evolve and learn.You're gonna pay it in the mistakes you

(08:18):
make or the wrong hires, the processes youdon't have or the projects you mess up.
Or you can pay it in, like, helping, youknow... Buying into a community or a
service that gives you information for afee, and that's what we are. Like, I am an
information-for-a-fee environment. Like,I put a ton out for free. It's not like
there's, there's... you have to pay. Ihave 700... over 700 YouTube videos that

(08:40):
I've released, literally on the... it's onthe internet right now. But, like,
certain people, you're gonna pay a tuitionone way or the other. Paying win rate, as
an example, to come in and coach you ormarket for you, is a substantially lower
fee than that bad employee or that clientthat doesn't pay or that project you mess
up. 'Cause like, you've had coaches,right? We talked a year or two ago. Like,

(09:00):
you had a coach that was helping youevolve as a leader. So I think you went
from, like, 1,500 users to 7,000 users in,like, not a lot of time in the grand
scheme of things, you know? And, and Ithink more people, if they understood the
cost of lessons learned, you would investrapidly into getting the lessons learned
-the easiest way possible. I've done it.-But-

(09:21):
I've had five or six coaches over myentrepreneurial career for different
seasons, for different reasons, and Ithink more people... We've been saying
this for a long time. More people deservethe results our clients get. We have a
dozen, maybe two dozen overlapping clientsthat have some incredible stories that I
don't take any credit for. Like, theysigned up. They did the work. They asked

(09:42):
the questions, right? I built the team tohelp them, but we have some overlapping
wild success stories. I think we had threeor four win rate clients win awards at
JobTread Connect in 2025. Like, that'smind-boggling to me that, like, we had a
couple of like... Maybe you had a dozenawards. Like, three or four of them were
-win rate clients.-Yep. Yeah.
And like, that's just cool to see, 'causeI think our values align so much in the

(10:05):
way that we run our companies and the waythat we strive for impact, where we meet
our clients where they are and really tryto give them what they're looking for.
You're better than anybody I've ever seenat that from the app development side. But
it's just really cool to see the impactthat, like, when good people get together,
and people... You said it, people committo doing the work. That, that... There is

(10:26):
no secret sauce. You have to commit todoing the work. There is no... I give you
all the ingredients to the recipe, but ifyou don't put it together the right way,
it's not gonna work. But it's cool to seethe impact that, like, JobTread clients
have had who have been in both, bothecosystems.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, so I'm, I'm,I'm kind of curious, just like, you know,
again, having worked with hundreds of, of,of different construction companies.

(10:48):
Like, what do you see is the most common,you know, challenges? Or, or, or where...
You know, where are they just, you know,stumbling? Like, what kinda gets them off
track of, of where they want to be goingthat... You know, w- w- what are you
-seeing?-So, not pre-planned, there's three things
that came to mind. One, they don't knowwhere they're going. They don't actually

(11:09):
have a vision for what they want. They'rejust working hard today, hoping to get
paid, managing their business success byhow much money is in the bank account. And
like, that's... They have no vision. So Ithink one is, you have to have a vision
for who you wanna be and what you wanna beknown for as a brand. Not just even as a
service provider, but as a brand. What doyou... Who do you wanna be and what do you
wanna be known for? Because how you makethat impact and how you become will evolve

(11:31):
over time, right? Market shift, productavailability, pricing volatility, all of
it creates changes. If you don't have aclear vision of who you wanna be, you
can't hire effectively. You can't buildSOPs effectively. You can't niche
effectively. You can't choose to be knownfor something effectively. So I think one
of the biggest issues I see is... It's oneof the first questions we ask when a,
when a client comes in, is, "What do youwant?" And most of them don't know. And

(11:56):
when you don't know what you want, no onecan help you. You can't even help
yourself, because there's nothing definingsuccess for you. So that's the number one
issue. I think that's a business ownerissue. I think that's a human issue. I
don't think that's a specific businessowner, but I think it's human struggle
selfishly defining what they want outtalife.The second thing that I think that

(12:17):
sticks out the most for me outside of thatis financial intelligence. Just
understanding your numbers, understandinghow to price, understanding taxes,
understanding cash flow, understanding,you know, employee benefits. Not benefits,
but, like, how to pay people effectively.You know, so contract management with
subs. I think financial intelligence of,like, how to effectively run a profitable

(12:41):
company predictably. And that's themistake, is predictably. Most be like,
"Oh, I'm profitable." Based on your P andL, that's a reactive autopsy of what you
did do. Can you show me your cash flow forthe next 90 days? Can you show me what's
coming? 'Cause if you can't, you're notpredicting anything. You're hoping. And
when you're hoping, you miss things. Youmiss lulls in the sales process. You miss

(13:04):
clients delaying payment. You miss avendor increasing price on you. And also
even at the end of the year, like, weworked really hard. We collected a lot of
money but there's nothing in the bankaccount. What happened? And the answer
will be, "I don't know." And then you'llguess. And then you'll start solving
problems in the wrong order or the wrongthings to solve altogether. So I think
financial intelligence, um, would be thetop issue that I see. And there isn't...

(13:26):
The problem with financial intelligence isthere is not one way to manage your
money. It is a subjective process. Like,there is a way to install cabinets, right?
Like, there's a... You gotta make themplumb and flush, right? They got to be
right. They got to be level. But when itcomes to managing your money, like, some
people use a basic spreadsheet. Somepeople use hyper-complex softwares to

(13:48):
integrate and zap shit back and forth, andthere's just like all over the place,
right? It doesn't matter how you do it,but you have to be able to see are the
initiatives we're deploying making me moreprofit or not? And are we projecting
positive cash flow or negative cash flow?If you can't do that, you're not actually
running your company. You're showing up toit and hoping it gets where you want to

(14:12):
go, and you might not even know where youwant to go, so it's a complete and utter
mess. Um, so... There's a hundredsolutions to that thing, but that's the
second-biggest problem I think I see. Lackof vision, financial intelligence, and
then the third would just be generalself-belief. I think that is a common
business owner theme. Scarcity, impostersyndrome, fear of the unknown, cer- I

(14:36):
think a lot of business owners seekcertainty of what they're doing, and,
like, you never get there. You are nevercertain in what you're doing next because
you've never done it before. Like, if you,if you have found success in business,
you've already achieved more than youprobably c- thought possible from the
beginning, and now you're heading intouncharted territory for you, seeking
certainty. And you're like, "Well if Idon't- if I'm not certain, then I might be

(15:00):
wrong," and then the hesitation and thedelayed decision-making sets in. If you
don't have a vision, you don't havefinancial awareness, and you don't have
clear self-belief in decision-making,you're screwed. There is no way that
person can be successful long-term inbusiness. You might s- like flash in the
pan, have some success. I sold $3 millionmy first year, but it cost you 3.4. And

(15:22):
somehow you're bankrupt, but you'recelebrating the new trucks, but you don't
actually have anything to show for it.That's that person. They're lacking
vision, they're lacking understanding offinancial intelligence, and they're
lacking self-belief in decision-makingthat gets them aligned with a desired
-outcome that makes it successful.-Yeah. No, that's... Couldn't, couldn't
agree more. I mean, I, you know, and, uh,I'm curious, how do you see... H- how much

(15:46):
of an overlap is there with the way thatsomebody shows up to run their business
and how they, they manage their personallife, their, their home life, their
relationship with their spouse or partner.Like, how much overlap do you see there?
So I'm not like a fan of the, like, howyou do anythings, how you do everything

(16:06):
statement. I think it's a little genericin the grand scheme of there are some
things I don't care to be good at. So,like, does that mean I'm bad at other
things too? Like, no. But I think it's,it's... I'm big on core values. You heard
me talk about it a lot. I've done apresentation on it. Core values are not
like, oh, those are my business corevalues. Core values are what... It's in

(16:26):
your core. It is who you are. And I seepeople try to be somebody different at
work than they are at home, and that's notreserved for business owners. Employees
do the same thing. It's like, "Oh, that'sthe work version of him." When you're
constantly volleying between two differentpeople, they eventually stumble over each

(16:48):
other and you build this monotonous lowsuccess kind of average life across there.
Everything's average. Everything's okay.Nothing's terrible, nothing's great. And
so I think when you are seekingexcellence, you can't live out of
integrity with that. Everything you do hasto be above a certain level. Once you

(17:08):
tolerate under-performance in one place,you will tolerate under-performance in
another because if you don't, you become ahypocrite. It's very, very difficult to
be a strong leader and be a hypocrite,right? So, like, if you're regularly late
to things, but you're trying to build atimely company... "We deliver projects on

(17:29):
time," but you're late to every meeting,that's an example of what you're expecting
out of each en- environment doesn't alignwith how you're showing up. And operating
out of integrity like that as a hypocritecan only last so long before people start
revolting against you. You see this withspouses and this happens a lot. You know,
th- this... Like, I always use the sametrigger of, like, if your spouse ever

(17:52):
said, "Hey, when is it my turn to comefirst?" Which we've all heard probably at
some point. That's an example of youunder-performing certain roles in your
life to over-perform in another. Thatdoesn't last. It doesn't last. And I feel
the same way about health and fitness.Like, do I need a six-pack? No, I'm not
like six-pack or, or, or you're, you'renot worth anything, but, like, you have to

(18:16):
be intentional with your decision-makingaround food and alcohol intake if you're
gonna be successful at a very highlevel.... okay? Like I've... and I'm not,
I'm not... This, th- this is not for theperson who's comfortable making a 150
grand a year with their two and a halfmillion dollar business and they're,
they're, they're comfy. Be co... I lovethat for you. I wish I could be satisfied

(18:37):
with that. If you are, please stay there.I'm speaking to the person who wants to
beat everybody at everything they do. Thatperson that wants to achieve the highest
level, set new standards and successinside of a construction company on, in
your market, on client experience, inprofitability, in the culture. You wanna
be top in class. You can't performdifferently anywhere else, or you

(19:03):
become a hypocrite and you become somebodythat can't be trusted because they know
you will say one thing and do somethingelse. And that, that, you see it in
marriages, you see it with kids, you seeit with fitness, you see it with vices,
you see it with, you know, people wholike, like to take the edge off. Cool. I'm
not taking the edge off the blade that Iuse to attack life. Like, I don't want a

(19:25):
dull blade to attack life with. And solike, I'm not judging those people. I used
to be one of those people. It was out ofintegrity with my values. I chose that I'm
not going to live with anxiety anymore. Iwas, I was a huge anxiety-ridden human
for a long time. And the reality was, Iallowed a lot of people's opinion of what

(19:46):
success looked like to hold me back. Like,the when's enough enough, Mike? Never.
I'm on a journey to crush life. There isno enough. There is no end to this. I'm
gonna constantly push the envelope what'spossible. To do that, I have to be
excellent to the best of my ability inevery role that's important to me. But
what most people do, and I think where re-people really fail, to your question of

(20:08):
that overlap, is they try to play too manyroles. Like, I'm a husband, father,
leader, athlete. If it does not supportone of those four roles, I don't make time
for it. Too many people try to be in toomany places at once. They try to do all
the things. They try to make everybodyhappy. If you try to make everybody happy,
you're the person who, by 4:00 in theafternoon, have nothing left to give

(20:30):
anybody else. And that's where I thinkpeople start to fail.
Yeah. I mean, well, one of the questions Iwas gonna ask you is like, I mean, I, I,
I feel like, I mean, you, you've got somany irons in the fire. Like, you are
involved in so many different things.Like, how do you manage your time? Like,
how, how are you... You know, I, I...There're not many people that I'm like,
"Man, like, this guy, I think, might domore than I do." But like, dude, like, I,

(20:53):
I feel like your, your calendar's gottajust be booked to the minute every single
day, day after day. Like, how do youmanage your own time? How do you do all of
-the things that you do?-Um, the answer is, I led and managed
myself out of boxes inside of my business.So, it wasn't always that way. Like, I

(21:13):
used to be stuck on Zoom calls coachingpeople 30 hours a week. There was no time
for other things. The reason I'm able tofractionally run companies and step into
COO roles of a $60 million company isbecause I worked my way out of
responsibilities in this place, to do thatthing. And the truth is, I'm just not
afraid to tell somebody, "No." I'm notafraid to tell a client, "No, I can't call

(21:36):
you tonight. No, I can't be at thatmeeting. No, you can handle that. You
don't need me there." I think so manybusiness owners are like, "Oh, they asked
for me to be there. I guess they need methere." And then you go sit in that
meeting for an hour that you nee-... Therewas one question that needed your input
and you just wasted 59 minutes. I don't dothat. I create extreme efficiency in
what my team needs from me. And I'm notafraid to miss a message. Uh, I'll...

(22:02):
We're not heart surgeons, man. No one'sgonna die if I don't get back to you till
tomorrow or even next week. I, but Icommunicate those things proactively. What
I have done really well is set properexpectations with everybody who has access
to me on what they can and can't expectfrom me. I think a lot of people struggle
creating the boundaries and then havingdiscipline with them. I am ver-... Do not

(22:26):
call me after 5:00. If you call, cool.I'll talk to you tomorrow. Like, "Hey,
guys, next week, on Friday morning, I'mleaving to take my sons going fishing.
Don't bother me. If it's a major problem,call this person. I'll see you guys
Monday." And then being okay not answeringmy phone. And I think that's ultimately

(22:47):
how I've done it. I am disciplined by theminute. People say, "Mi- Mike, how much do
you work?" I work at life, 18 hours aday. From fitness, to family, to finances,
to the businesses, to meetings, topodcast interviews. Like, I make it all
work inside of 18 hours harmoniously.Like, you've heard me talk about this.
Like, I don't believe in work-lifebalance. I believe in each of the roles

(23:09):
that are important to me working together.I don't mind leaving in the middle of the
day to go do something with my son. Idon't mind taking my wife on a lunch date
at 1:00. And I don't mind taking a call at7:00 on a Tuesday night if I need to. I
make it all work together, where I, I makeeach role get the right amount of my
attention in any given season. Whichchanges regularly. You have young children

(23:31):
too. Like, being a parent changesliterally every 90 days.
-[laughs]-Like, every 90 days, what's needed from
you changes. Like, sports season, notsports season. Summer break, school, home
school, this thing, that thing, vaca-...It's like, every 90 days, my
responsibility as a father changes. So Ican't be stuck to a structure. Every 90
days, I re-evaluate my time commitments.And I had to... Uh, what, what happens is,

(23:52):
over time, the first iteration was veryeasy. I could say no to a bunch of things
that didn't matter. As you get better atthis, you have to start saying no to
things that do- that do matter. You gottastart saying no to good things to make
time for great things. That's when thediscipline becomes really hard. Right?
Like, this is the only podcast interviewI'm doing this month, because I'm not

(24:16):
making time for that right now. I getasked every week to do podcast interviews.
I say no all the time. Some people arelike, "Hey, man, I appreciate that. Let me
know when you can." Some are like, "Oh,are you too big to do a podcast
interview?" Like, fuck, man, screw you.You have no idea what my priorities are.
And the fact that you took that personallymeans you're not worth my time anyway.But
being willing to be disliked forprotecting my boundaries was ultimately

(24:38):
the personal decision I had to make. Ittakes an incredible amount of courage to
be disliked... for the right reasons.Like, don't go around punching babies in
the face, man. That's not a good reason tobe disliked. But when I'm making
decisions to create boundaries to protectmy energy for the things that matter to
me, if that upsets you, I'm not impactedby that anymore. I used to be. I used to

(24:58):
want to make everybody happy. And what Idid was, I just, I just started pulling
things out that really didn't fit themission. And the more I said no, the more
great things I had time for. Time with myfamily, time for myself, time for the
businesses, time to take on... You know, Isaid no to some stuff in a season of
scarcity, not knowing what was gonnahappen, created space for some awesome

(25:20):
opportunities to come to my plate. I'msure it's happened to you too. Like, "Man,
I don't know if we should say no to that,but it feels wrong." And then you're
like, "Man, this new thing showed upbecause I said no to that, and now I have
time and resources to allocate to thatthing, 'cause I said no to the good thing
-waiting for the great thing."-Yep.
That takes discipline at a n- a level Ihad not experienced before, and that's

(25:40):
all... I, I make it work because either itserves one of my purposes or it doesn't
-happen.-Yeah. That makes total sense. I'm curious,
do you believe that everyone has thepotential to be a great leader and to be
successful? You know, building aconstruction business, like is this... Is
this something that like you thinkeveryone's got that potential? Or, or, or

(26:01):
are there people that just... this isn'tthe right role for them? And, and, and is
that something that is... can bepredetermined versus them having to go
through a year of, of, of hard work tofind out that that just isn't the right
-fit for them?-All right. So I don't think it's a... Are
they capable or not is a timing issue. Ithink everybody could evolve into a

(26:24):
leader. Not everybody has a long enoughrunway to make it happen fast enough to
make the business they're in successful. Ithink some people need to accept, "I'm
currently not the leader I need to be torun this company. I'm gonna go get a job
to support my family right now, 'causemaking three grand a month isn't cutting
it. And the stress of, like, payroll andselling isn't w-... I'm gonna go get a job

(26:46):
to work on myself and then I'm gonna tryagain later." That's the mature that most
people don't have. Most people just runthemselves into the ground for 10 years,
never make it past a half a milliondollars and then, like, judge the
customer. "No, dude, no one's spendingmoney right now." Um, that's not true. You
see all the new trucks all yourcompetitors are driving. Someone's
spending money right now. And so I thinkit's a timing thing. I think if people

(27:08):
could be self-aware enough to say, "Hey,I'm just not who I need to be right now to
be a CEO of a company. I'm gonna go backand get a job and support my family so I
can drop this financial stress for rightnow and then heavily invest in personal
development and then try again later." SoI think everybody can get there. I just
don't know if everybody has a long enoughrunway inside of their business right now

(27:31):
to make that evolution while being in thebusiness trying to run it every day. So
no, I don't think everybody who owns abusiness right now should own a business
right now. Do I think everybody who wantsto be a great leader can be a great
leader? 100%. It's just giving yourselfthe time and the freedom to learn the
lessons in a low impact environment.Running a company as a wildly immature,

(27:53):
cocky, lack of humbleness, no core value,uh, y- you're just not gonna be
successful. And you're gonna judgeeverybody else who has success like they
had something you didn't. The only thingthey had that you didn't was leadership
ability. When you blame the customer, youblame the vendor, you blame the
government, you blame everybody butyourself, that person shouldn't run a

(28:14):
company right now. They should go learnsome lessons somewhere else.
I gotta imagine it's gotta be, uh, uh, atough, a tough thing for you to decide,
"Do I coach this person, you know, up ordo I need to coach them out?"
I have looked people in their face andsaid, "You should not be a business owner
right now. You are not capable of runningthis company. You either need to sell it
or you need to shut it down because you'reheaded in a really, really dangerous

(28:36):
direction." And I, I'll never forget thefirst time I said it. I was... I was
almost in tears because I knew how painfulthat message was gonna be coming from me.
Mm-hmm.
And I did not take it lightly. Um, and itwasn't like on the second coaching call.
We were like 18 months into coaching, andthe reality was it wasn't a skillset

(28:58):
issue. He no longer loved his company. Andif you don't love your company, it makes
it very difficult to get it... to give itwhat it needs to grow. And that's happens.
Sometimes you build something for thewrong reasons early on in your business
career and it becomes something you don'twanna, you don't enjoy anymore. And if you
don't love it and you're not passionateabout it, no one on that mission or no one

(29:21):
in that company is gonna grow, becauseyou don't wanna water it. You don't love
it. And he was in a position that he builtsomething he no longer loved. I'm like,
"Look, man. Your company may be able to besuccessful with a different leader.
You're not the guy to take this company towhere you say you want to take it." And
it wasn't a skillset issue. It, uh, itabsolutely was not a skillset issue. He
had the skills. He just ran out of passionfor it. And I... and other people have

(29:44):
looked at me like, "Look, man. You're notdoing the work. Like, this coaching thing
doesn't make sense. Stop giving me moneyand doing nothing with it. Either start to
do the work or let's just call it what itis, you're not ready to do the work, and
let's cancel the contract because I'm notinterested in taking your money for you to
not do the work." That, thoseconversations have happened. The truth is,
most people who are like that knowthey're not gonna do the work and they
just don't sign up. Like most peop-... Oneof the biggest objections we hear is, "I

(30:07):
don't have the time or willingness, Ithink, to do the work you're gonna ask me
to do, so I'm not gonna sign up." That's,that's a very real objection we get.
People s-... There are people that areself-aware enough to say, "I'm not
interested in getting uncomfortable. Idon't wanna evolve. I don't wanna change.
I don't wanna make it harder for myself."Cool, then don't be a business owner.
Like, go get a comfortable job and supportyour family. Stop making your family live

(30:29):
-in poverty because of your ego.-[laughs]
-That's, that's, that's miserable.-You know, so I- I- I got the pleasure of
getting to hearing you... I think it waswhen you were keynoting, uh, one of our
events maybe two years ago or something.But, you know, you- you've got a framework
for helping people to develop theirmission, their vision, their core values.

(30:50):
Can- can you share a little bit about thatframework and- and- and how you help
people apply that to their, you know, totheir own situation to- to come up with
-these?-Yeah. So, so mission, vision, and core
values tend to be one of the first thingsI work with everybody on, because that-
that paints the picture and builds thepath for everything we do after it. 'Cause

(31:10):
every decision needs to be challengedversus those things. Like, does this align
with our mission? Does this help usaccomplish our vision? Is this aligned
with our core values? Like, everything youdo, from every hire, every fire, every
process, every technology advancement,everything you do needs to be challenged
versus those things. And so the- themission is why are you in business? Like,

(31:32):
what is the impact? What- what is theproblem you're trying to solve? Like, what
is the mission? Like, our missionstatement right now is o- Win Rate's
mission is to elevate success in businessand life. Like, that... And if- if what...
If every decision is, "Does this help uselevate success in business and life?" Yes
or no? So the- the- the- the- the missionhas to be somewhat of an intangible

(31:55):
impact that you're trying to make. Youknow, I have a client right now, like,
their mission statement is, "We want toimpact communities through technology and
mulch." They're a landscape supplycompany. So, like, but that's... Like,
does every decision we make help us impactour community using technology and mulch?
Like, it's evolving right now as they'rekind of changing their landscape supply to

(32:15):
be more broad spectrum, but, like, thatwas the mission that we built two years
ago. So, like, it has to be something thatyou matter, that matters to you. And one
of the first questions I ask is, "Why didyou start your company from the
beginning?" Typically, it was to overcomea problem you were seeing in the
marketplace, whether it was a company youworked for, going, "I can do it better
than these guys." Cool, what was that?What- what- what was it you want to do

(32:35):
better than them? Or you could just belike, there's something you want to bring
to the community or the world that youwant to have... Great. Start there.
Sometimes, your mission can be selfish.Like, I- I- I know some people that part
of their mission is getting filthy rich.So, like, I've seen people, like, make a

(32:57):
mission like, "Hey, we wanna help theright people with the right service at the
right price." I've had some people say,like, something along the lines of like,
"Hey, we wanna deliver top-notch qualityprofitably. That's our mission. As a
company, that's our mission, because we-you can't sustain life without
profitability." And so there can be someselfishness to the impact or the mission

(33:18):
that you wanna be on, but it's generallynon-tangible, external, external impact.
The vision is like, what does itphysically look like to get to the next
base camp? And when I say base camp, um, Iuse the analogy of- of summoning Mount
Everest. And you don't go from the bottomto the top of Mount Everest. There's like

(33:39):
four or five base camps along the way, andyou have to stop at each base camp to
acclimate to the new- the new- the newthings that are happening at that- at that
level. And business is the same way.Like, you can... I want to be a $100
million company. Where are you at now? 1.2million. Bro, there's a lot of base camps
between here and there. Let's pick one,right? And, but when you build a base
camp, it's how much revenue, how manycomp, like con- how many clients, how many

(34:01):
employees, how many trucks, how manylocations. Like, physically, you wanna be
able to see the vision, and you wanna beable to see a vision that's not just for
you, it's for everybody on your team towin. If everybody on your, inside of your
company doesn't see themselves winning aspart of your vision, you will lose them at
some point, either immediately orsomewhere along the path. So the vision is

(34:24):
the tangible, here's how we know weaccomplished something. I'm huge on
not changing visions till you get there.I've heard a lot of, like, motivational
speakers who are like, "Every time you getclose, move it out, keep yourself
motivated." That works for you as the CEO.If every time you give a vision of
accomplishment to your team, you changeit, they get demotivated, 'cause they

(34:48):
never accomplish what you want anyway, sowhy even try so hard? You want them to be
able to achieve the vision, enjoy it for amoment, acclimate to it, and then
reimagine the next vision. As the CEO, youneed to be beyond the next vision. You
need to be visualizing what's happening.You're the visionary. You need to have
that. But from a team perspective, like ifI'm using jobs right, like, the next

(35:09):
vision is 10,000 clients with 10,000five-star reviews. Cool, we can see it. We
can measure it. We can- we can- we canachieve it together. If you said, "Hey,
this week, the- is 10,000, next week,15,000." Cool, but like, you're gonna
demotivate your team because they neverexperience the bliss of achieve... Setting

(35:30):
a hard target and achieving it. So thevision should be something concrete that
you can physically measure, see, presentto people. I'll use Barn- the BarnDoCo,
which is the custom builder that I'mrunning right now. The owners basically
handed me the keys and said, "Get ushere." The next vision is 10 and 10. 10
markets doing $10 million minimum apiece.Like, we just opened our sixth location,

(35:52):
so we're in- we're in six cities overthree states. The vision is 10 and 10,
super simple. We got sweatshirts andT-shirts made for everybody. We're
navigating towards $10 million or more in10 markets. Is that the ultimate vision?
No. Is that what this, what the ownershipwants? No. That's the next base camp
everybody can sink their teeth into. It'svisible. You can see it. How many do we

(36:16):
have? Six. How much revenue? Got it. Cool.What's next? What- what do we need next
to get to 10 and 10? And we're talkingabout it every day, 10 and 10, 10 and 10.
And it... The- the- the- the challenge Igive people on this is the vision can't
have a- a timeline. You have no idea howlong it's gonna take. "10 and 10 by the
end of the year." When you don't getclose, you adjust the vision. No, we're

(36:38):
going to chase 10 and 10 until we getthere.This vision, it means enough to us.
We're not gonna give up on any timeline. Idon't care how long it takes. We're going
to get to 10 and 10, and we're gonna acturgently every day till we get there.
There is no timeline on that. We have noidea what's happen... Like, could I have
pictured, um, tariffs hitting our Q2challenges list? No, you can't tell me

(37:01):
what's happening a year from now. Screw athree-year plan, and five-year makes no
sense. I can't tell you five months fromnow what's gonna be true, but I'm gonna
work every day. And every decision we makeshould be navigated towards how do we get
to 10 and 10? So that's the vision.Manifested, visually measurable. The
core values are, are the, well, I call itthe guidance system to keep you on

(37:24):
integrity with who you wanna be on thatjourney. So core values are an
organization of words. I'm a, I'm a bigacronym fan. I like acronym. Like BARNDO.
BARNDO is the, is like [laughs] theacronym. Winrate Coach is the acronym. And
so winrate's core values are communicateproactively, operate with health-first
mentality, appreciate everyone's timeincluding your own, continually evolve,

(37:48):
and have a championship mindset. And sothe core values become a way for you as
the CEO to deploy your behaviors anddecision-making into your team when you
are not there. It's simple, but it cantake time if you're not used to
using core values in your communication.So core values are on the wall, but

(38:11):
they're also in your conversations everyday. Like, I use the actual words of our
core values almost every day. Like, one ofthe core values at BARNDO, the R is run
the play. Anytime someone wants to bypassa process, run the play. They have a
question, run the play. They wanna changesomething, run the play. Like, we built
these processes, we built these plays, fora reason. Just run the damn play. And so

(38:33):
like, I use that. And now the lea- and Italk about it, 'cause when I joined BARNDO
in September, I rewrote the core values.They were there. They weren't making an
impact the way they needed to. Theyweren't changing the way people behave or
think or make decisions. They weren't...They were good. They just weren't
deployable. It wasn't the right words. Sowe rewrote the core values, and now people

(38:55):
talk about them in regular conversation.Y- core values should be brought up in
regular conversation all the time. Butultimately, core values are a organi-
they're, they're words organized into howyou want to show up, how you want
decisions to be vetted, how you wantbehaviors and, and culture to be. I don't

(39:15):
know... I, I probably could be explainingit better. I don't really know a great way
to explain core values to someone whodoesn't know what they are, um, 'cause
I've just been a part of who I am for along time.
-Yeah. D- y--But core values become the guidance system
that help you accomplish your vision andexecute your mission within alignment with
an integrity of who you want to be onthat journey, 'cause there's plenty of

(39:36):
ways to make money. Not all of them comewith integrity.
Sure. Do, do you think that this, like...Do, do these mission, vision, core values,
do they get developed by, you know, the,the, the business owner, the entrepreneur,
the leadership, or are these developed,like, with your team in a larger, you
-know, kinda setting to try to get buy-in?-The answer is there is not a rule of thumb

(40:00):
for this. It really depends on yourorganization. Um, it definitely doesn't
include everybody. Um, when it comes to,like, core values, if you've never built
them before, one of the best practices is,like, ask your family and your best
friends what do they think your corevalues are, and they tend to have an
answer. Like, core values tend to be the,like, the things that trigger you the
most. Like, communicate proactively. Ihate reactive communication. Like, it

(40:24):
triggers the shit out of me. Like, itreally does. Like, I hate being late for
stuff. I hate when people are being latefor me. Appreciate everyone's time
including your own, right? It's like, corevalues tend to be something you operate
by already. People know what you valuewithout you needing to say it 'cause of
how you emotionally react when thingstrigger you. So, if you d- like, I would
start there. If core values are somethingyou've never done before, um, you can

(40:47):
Google a list of core values. Say, "Hey,can you circle the five core values you
think that I represent the most?" And,like, ask the people that know you. This
is not an exercise for your brand newemployee that started last week, okay? The
core values, more communal, can help youcreate, 'cause they have to align with the
owner. And I didn't say this earlier, butcore values can't be aspirational. And

(41:09):
so, like, when you, uh... You have to makesure your core values are something that
you inherently already represent. You...They can't be aspirational, because you're
out of integrity with them from day oneif it's not how you're already operating.
So asking people who deal with you on adaily basis what do they think your core
values are and/or, like, can you choosefrom this list I printed from Google of
core values, that can be a communal thing.The mission, why you're in business, I

(41:34):
think needs to be done by the CEO. I thinkit needs to be, it needs to come
top-down, because no one knows why youstarted the company. And the truth is, no
one knows what it takes to run a companyuntil you've run one. Like, you can't
explain it. You cannot explain to anemployee what it's like to be a business
owner. And so for them to understandmission development not understanding what
it takes to run a company, that'd be verydifficult.

(41:56):
-Sure.-The vision is probably a blend of both.
The CEO has to have an idea of what theywant, but you should collaborate with your
core team on, do you guys agree that thisvision is attainable and excites you, and
is this something you wanna be a part of?Because they have to want it to come to
life. And, and I, I heard Ed Mylett saythis once, and I've used different
analogies for it, but, like, your visionhas to be so big that everybody on your

(42:22):
team sees their vision coming to lifebeing a part of yours. So that has to be a
collaboration. You can't do that alone.So it... But again, that's not every
employee on the company. Like, if you'venever done it before, it's your core
leadership team. If you don't have aleadership team, then you have no one to
ask anyway. But, like, it's important...If you have no team, you have to ask your

(42:43):
spouse.Like, your spouse is your key teammember. If you don't know that already,
you're not operating that way, like,challenge accepted. Your spouse is your
top, like, number two team member. Ifthey're not on board with what you're
trying to build and what it's gonna looklike, you're gonna deal with a lot of
pressure over the course of building thatthat's gonna make it very difficult to
succeed. But if you have a team, makingsure that the mission is something that

(43:08):
it- they're excited about, that's not acollaboration. That's a word smithing why
you started your company and why you're inbusiness. The vision should be a
collaboration. What do you guys want toaccomplish? What do you guys want in your
life? What would we need to build for youto have what you want? That's a great
question to ask. "Hey, man, I don't reallyknow what our vision for our company
shou- would be." Let's talk as a team andsay, "What would we need to develop as a

(43:32):
team for each of you to have what you wantin your life?" How much money do you
wanna make? How much freedom do you want?How much vacation time do you want? "Well,
I wanna make 150 grand a year." Cool.This is how big the business would need to
-be for you to make 150 grand a year.-[laughs]
Do we wanna go build that? So, like, Ithink that's a collaboration. And then I-
I think core values, um, it's acollaboration but you have- like, the

(43:54):
owner can't be out of alignment with them.
-Sure.-So it can't be like- it can't be
aspirational statements of, "We are gonnabe timely," and you're late on everything.
Like, that doesn't work. Um, so I- Ithink I answered the question.
-Yeah.-There's not really a rule of thumb, but
there's definitely a- some best practiceson that.
-Yeah. I mean, I--Mm-hmm.
You know, I always tell people I thinkit's just really important to- to figure
out the things that you're very passionateabout, you know, the things that just

(44:17):
kinda get you going, that, you know, you-you can get the rest of your- your team
members passionate about, to worktogether, to get on the same page. You
know, rowing in the same direction. Like,I think it's just so important that people
take the time to- to reflect and to tryto develop these, you know, these, the-
the- the mission, vision, core values out.Because, like, at the end of the day,
like, if you don't have it, well, whereare you going? You know, you're- you're

(44:37):
lost. And so, like, you know, I think tothe extent that- that you can do that, you
know, and- and even kind of before you goand start to build out this huge team,
because you gotta use it to attract andrecruit the right people. You know, and-
and- and at the- at the last boot camp,you know, you talked a lot about, you
know, hiring and- and- and- and yourprocess. Like, can you share some of the
strategies? Like, how do people make surethat they hire the right people the first

(44:59):
time, you know? And if- if not, you know,you gotta quickly course correct, but,
like, what- what strategies have you seen?'Cause you've- you've hired hundreds of
people. You've helped, you know, hundredsof companies build their own hiring
processes out too. Like, you- you know alittle bit about making sure you get the
right people, and- and- and how importantthat is. So kinda what- you know, what
strategies would you share that peopleneed to make sure that they're
implementing when they do go to build outthat team?

(45:21):
I- I think the first is the mindset of,you're gonna get the first couple wrong. I
think people, like, assume in their headthe first sales hire they make is gonna be
their best sales guy ever. And so ifyou're- if you're new to hiring and
building a team, assume you're gonna getit wrong. I would challenge you to hire...
I- if- if this is your first, let's say,your first 10 hires in your business

(45:43):
career, hire fast, fire faster. You don'tknow yet. You don't even know what you're
doing yet. Like, so you- you learn how toget better at interviewing and vetting by
just getting it wrong, honestly. Like,don't be- don't hire terribly. And I guess
that's subjective, but, like, have aprocess. I'm- I'm gonna share a process,
but have a process, but hire quick, firefast. Once you have a process, start to

(46:06):
hire slower. You get to that 10, that 20,that 50th employee, you wanna hire more
selectively, because now you know theimpact of each additional hire, but you
still wanna fire fast. Like, if you got itwrong, stop pouring water onto a dead
seed. It's one of the biggest mistakes Isee people make. They hire wrong. Like,
"Well, if I just train them and give thema little bit more patience, they might get

(46:28):
there." Do not fall in love withsomeone's potential. Either they're
performing for you or they're not. That'sthe mindset shift. Like, you're developing
a championship team as a business owner.You're not developing, like, the B league
developmental process. You need to havethe best team possible at all times. If
somebody needs excessive time, excessivetraining, excessive amount of effort from

(46:52):
you to succeed, you got to let them go.Stop watering a dead seed. To the process
that I follow, and- and it was a great f-I- I really enjoyed this topic that I did
at JobTread this year, um, well, I- I- Ifollow a four-step process, you know. I
make the job post. I create a hurdle. Givethem some task to get an interview. Mine

(47:13):
is typically, complete this personalitytest that I use, and send a 60-second
video to why you think you'd be a greatfit for this job. That weeds out 98% of
the- of the- of the, uh, of the resumesyou get. People just don't wanna take
the... Like, if you can't take thepersonality test, which takes five
minutes, and you can't send me a 60-secondvideo, I- you clearly don't want this
job. I'm not giving you my time. Round twois a virtual interview specifically

(47:38):
related to core values. So if you don'thave core values, you have to start there.
But I build questions, scenarios,concepts. What would you do if... Tell me
about a time that... How would youhandle... Those type questions related to
your core values. Um, like, as an example,it's an easy one, like, one of our core
values is continually evolve. On everyinterview, I ask people, "What do you do

(48:00):
for professional and personal evolutionas- out of your life?" Read books, listen
to podcasts, self-educate, watch y- If youdon't do any of that, you're not gonna
like working here. We evolve quickly, andyou better be on board with that. We don't
have t- We're evolving on our own. Idon't have time to evolve you too. It's
like, continually evolve is one of ourcore values. One of my questions in the
first-round live interview is, "What doyou do for personal and professional

(48:21):
evolution? How do you invest in yourself?"If the answer is you don't, that might
not be the only reason I don't hire you,but that's gonna be a big problem. Like,
that's a- that's gonna be a big thing wehave to overcome early on. Round three is
typically an in-person interview where I'mtesting what their resume said. Um, I
don't even look at resumes until roundthree. It's a waste of time. I learned

(48:44):
-this--[laughs]
-back in my corporate America season whenI learned that there are professionals out
there that will write your resume for afee. When I learned that, I stopped
trusting resumes.Um, and so now in roundthree, I will not look at a resume until
round three, but I'm testing what yourresume says. If you said you have four
years experience in this, and I ask somebasic questions about that thing, like
sales. "Hey, man, how do you manage yourCRM? What do your note structure look

(49:08):
like? What's your follow-up cadence?" Andyou don't have answers for that, you were
not in sales for four years. Okay? That'sa lie. That is not true. So that's round
three. Um, and then not every time, but alot of times, round four is a test day or
a homework assignment. I'm really big onthis in the final stage of, like, really
seeing them engage with your team. So Iwanna see, like, l- let's say you're

(49:28):
hiring a laborer. Do they do... Like, h-do they jive with the team? I will pay
them for that day, you know, if, if it's alaborer. Um, I've done, I've done a
homework assignment for sales people,"Hey, man, get me two leads in the next
-seven days."-[laughs]
If you can't get me two people interestedin a conversation with us in the next
seven days, you're not gonna... It ain'tgonna work out, man. Like, it... like,
that, that... it just ain't gonna work,okay? And so, like, I'll pay them for that

(49:51):
if they close or whatever. Like, I, like,I'll compensate them for the homework
assignment or the test day, but I wannasee how they jive with our model, how they
jive with our employees. I want them totalk to people, be around people, and I
wanna prove that, like, they can actuallydo the things they say they're gonna do.
So post-job hurdle, for me it'spersonality test and a 60-second video as
to why you think you'll be a valuableaddition to our team, or what makes you

(50:14):
think you'd be a good person for thisrole. Second round is virtual core value
alignment, third is in-person challengingthe, the resume, and then fourth... and it
d- it's not every time, but most of thetime I do a fourth, either a homework
-assignment or test day.-There you have it. [laughs] You know,
that's, uh... yeah. You know, y- it's,it's... you could s- you know, save

(50:35):
yourself a whole lotta time if you justget this implemented. You know, I think,
uh, it's, it's... it's very similar to, towhat we do here at Job Tread. I mean, I,
I, I think it's, it's so important thoughthat you take the time to make sure that
that person is gonna be a good fit withyour team, that the team wants to work
with them, you know? And it's, it's easyfor someone to come in for one hour, and,

(50:56):
and, and, and, and be like, you know,saying all the right things, doing all the
right things, but go spend a day withthat person, you know? Can they actually
follow through all day? Like, are they,you know... or, or are they putting up a
front, you know? Get 'em out there on thejob site. Have 'em do some carpentry, do
some, you know, whatever it may be. Like,that's when you're really gonna get to not
only see their skill, but what are theylike at the end of a long, hard day? Is

(51:18):
that someone you really wanna be around?Is that someone that, you know, you,
you're, you're gonna feel comfortable, youknow, working with and going through
those tough times? Like, i- it's just soinvaluable to do that, and, and I love...
You know, again, I- I love how you dothat. You know, again, compensate 'em.
-Sure. Great.-Yup. 100%. It-
And if they can't do it, you don't want'em or the team doesn't want 'em-
-It's worth it-... like, you just save yourself.
It's worth it 'cause either you're gonnaf- hire them, so it's worth it, or you're
not going to and you saved yourself awhole bunch of money. Like, either way,

(51:40):
-that money's worth it.-Yeah.
-But I wa- I wanna say this.-Yeah. Totally.
From that process, if the only thing youimplemented was the hurdle at the
application process... I hear businessin'like, "Oh, I've got like 50 resumes to go
through." They all run together. You don'tlearn anything from a resume. So if, if
the only thing you implemented was a wayfor people who applied to go through a
hurdle to get an interview, where you didnot have to look through a couple dozen

(52:04):
resumes... I think the only thing youimplemented, it would save you an enormous
-amount of time in the interview process.-Yeah. So I'm curious, in, in... This might
be a tough question for you, but like, isthere a, you know... A- a... C- Can you
tell us a story of, of the client thatyou're most proud of that you think you've
made the biggest impact, you've helped,you know, achieve the most progress since-

(52:27):
Yeah
... since they've been working with you,you know, joined your team, whether,
whether they're still there or not. Like,just, you know, what... If you, if you had
to hang your hat on, on, on one clientthat you've just made such an impact, you
know, w- who, who would that be? Whatwould their, their story be?
All right, so I, I'm gonna tell a story,and then I will answer the question. Um,
someone asked me this question for thefirst time probably two or three years

(52:48):
ago. And no o-... Because I hadn't been inbusiness that long and I really hadn't
built a name brand yet, but someone askedme that question. It was probably two or
three years ago, and I sat there, like,kinda stumped for a moment. Like you say,
it's kinda hard to answer because we'vehad s- clients succeed in losing a hundred
pounds, we've had clients succeed ingetting sober, we've had clients save
their business like you talked aboutearlier. Like, "I'm gonna shut this down,"
and all of a sudden they're thriving. Andso, like, winning i- is subjective,

(53:12):
right? Like... But it... When I really satthere and looked at it, I was like,
"Okay, I, I went through like all... thehundreds of clients we've helped." The
answer that came outta me in that day was,"I'm the best client of Winrate." Like, I
live everything we teach. I'm nothypocritical or, or I don't teach from
theory. I, I'm the best. I lost a hundredpounds. I lost it first. Like, I lost a

(53:34):
hundred... I went from 330 to 226 pounds,and then all of a sudden our clients are
doing it. I went from making 60 grand ayear to b- millions of dollars. I did that
first. I had to become the person to makethe impact first. And so the, the truth
is, I am the greatest success story of theprocesses we teach at Winrate. I learned
them all by failing first. Like,everything I teach, that sales... that,

(53:57):
that interview process, I developedbecause I got tired of messing stuff up
and hiring the wrong people. Like,everything I teach is from the lessons I
learned. And not that I haven't hadcoaches and outside influences and read
books, listened to pod- I've learned alot, but m-... Everything I teach, I
deployed first. 'Cause the truth is, Ibelieve I'm the best product that Winrate
has produced, and that's why we've hadsuch an impact. But, like, I just...

(54:19):
That's what came outta me that day, and,uh, I still bel-... And I take it
seriously. Like, I lead CEOs for a living.I have eight coaches that are current
CEOs of seven and eight-figure companieson my team call. If I'm not evolving a
degree ahead of them, I stop being amission and a vision they wanna be a part
of, so I have to keep evolving. I have tokeep getting better. I have to become a

(54:42):
stronger leader, which means I amconsistently still the best client success
story that this process has had. Um, butthere is one that, that sticks out to me
the most. Um, his name is Les. He runs theLandscape Supply Company in Atlanta, or
just outside of Atlanta.... he was in areally, really dark place when he, when he

(55:04):
found us. And he's told this story some,and I'm not gonna get too into details,
but what I turned him into that he thenturned his company into,
I did not coach his company,specifically. I coached him, and what
he... What I turned him into or helped himuncover himself to what he developed

(55:25):
inside of his company, um, he's myfavorite client success story. And like,
I have a lot, like, it's very difficultto choose. He's still a client. He's one
of our coaches now. Like, he went from,like, lost, confused, scared, broken, to
one of the highest performing humans I'veever met. Like, he's on, like, day 1045

(55:48):
of 5K a day. Like, that's insane. That's,like, three years. That's three years. He
hasn't missed a day. Like, that's adifferent human. But if I look at, like,
typical business success, we had a clientin St. Louis who's a roofer who joined us.
His target revenue... Eric, you'llappreciate this. His target revenue in

(56:09):
2024 was $5 million. At the end of '23,his target for 2024 was $5
million. At the end of Q1, he sold for 14million-
-Huh?-... of this year. Like, in 18 months, he
went from hoping to get to 5 million toexiting for 14 million. And like, we're
about to go do this big, like, client,like, case study on him and kinda how the

(56:32):
process went, but we really can. Winratecan help you start your company, scale
your company or exit your company. I'vehelped about 10 clients at this point
exit, either all or part of theircompanies. Like, we've proven we can do
this, and I've been quiet about it. Idon't like celebrating client wins as my
trophies. I don't like doing that. It's,it, it's... There's an intimacy to

(56:53):
coaching. There's a privacy to coaching.There's... I don't like sharing clients as
my trophies. I'm building my own shit.Like, I got my own companies. But the
truth is, we've helped people build wildsuccess in business and life, and we're
taking it to a new level now. Like, we'veelevated with done-for-you services, like
fractional CFO, fractional COO, uh, uh,marketing services. We're, we're, we're

(57:17):
developing a system right now that we canpackage up and help somebody from startup
to scale to exit, and we really areexperts at every stage of that. And what
we're gonna do next is gonna be, is gonnabe pretty, pretty... It, it, it ain't
gonna be easy, but I'm, I'm... We're inthe process right now of taking it to a

(57:38):
-whole new level, and, uh--Awesome.
I'm really excited to take everythingwe've learned basically in the preseason,
I would call it, the last six or sevenyears, of learning how to deploy our
knowledge and then putting it packageddifferently. These next couple of years
-are gonna be something pretty cool.-[laughs] Man, I can't, can't wait to see
it. You know, I, I think, Mike, it's, uh,it's always awesome getting to hear you

(58:00):
speak. You know, y- y- you know, y- you'repretty easy to get going, get riled up,
-get on a roll, but like, you know, e- e--[laughs] I've been doing this every day
for seven years. I love this, man. It is,it is-
-Oh, yeah-... a pure passion for me.
No, I, I... Look, I, I love it, and, youknow, again, I, I, I, I love the fact that
you truly are. You're, you're leading byexample. You know, you're not just telling
people, you know, what to do and then,you know, doing something else. Like, you,

(58:23):
you truly are the product of your owncoaching, your own experience. Like,
everything that, you know, you've learnedthe hard way is what you are taking and
helping others to be able to implement andlearn from you. And I just, uh... Dude,
I, I got the utmost level of respect forthat. You know, it's just been awesome to
watch you continue to grow Winrate, youknow, a- all, all of the things that you
keep building and coming out with. And,and I, and I know it's, it's genuinely

(58:47):
coming from the bottom of your heart.Like, you are so passionate about helping
other people be able to have the samesuccess that you've had because you
believe in them, and you know if theyimplement and they hold themselves
accountable and they have that desire,that drive, you know, work hard at it,
they can be successful too. And I just...I, I love what you're doing, man. I really
appreciate everything that, that you'vedone for our community, for all of our

(59:10):
clients. It's making a huge impact. I hearabout it, you know, very regularly. So,
you know, again, thank you. Thank you forcoming on today. You know, for being the
one podcast that you're doing all month,you know, I feel very honored, uh, to, to,
to have gotten that time with you. But,you know, for anyone who's, who's
interested in getting in contact with you,learning more about what... H- how do
-they do that?-You just go to winrateconsulting.com. Um,

(59:32):
if you wanna just find my content,podcasts, YouTube, book, if you just
Google Mike Claudio, like, in a- in allfairness, like, you'll find me on the
internet. Like, The Big Stud Podcast, MikeClaudio on YouTube, #2Strong is the title
of my book I published a couple yearsago. Like, I'm... I have content all over
the place is the truth. And if you justGoogle Mike Claudio, you'll find your

(59:52):
content. Some people like YouTube. Somepeople like podcasts. Some people like
reading. Just Google Mike Claudio. But ifyou really wanna learn about coaching,
what that looks like, and the pricing andwhat's included, if you go to
winrateconsulting.com, you'll find all theinformation about our coaching packages
-and how we help people.-Awesome, man. Well, look, thanks again,
Mike, for coming on. Really appreciate it.
-Awesome. Thanks, Eric.-See you. [rock music plays] Thanks for

(01:00:13):
joining us for this episode of BuilderStories. We hope you enjoyed the
conversation and gained valuable insightsthat can help you in your journey along
the way. Don't forget to subscribe to theshow and leave us a review. And as always,
if you or someone you know has a story toshare, please contact us at
builderstories.com. We'd love to hear fromyou. I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,

(01:00:37):
every builder has a unique story. Keepbuilding yours. [rock music fades out]