From Handyman to High-End Homes

In 2010, Devon Vought launched Vought Construction in Berkeley, California, starting with small handyman projects and evolving into a sought-after builder of custom luxury homes. In this episode, Devon shares how he grew his business from working solo with a motorcycle (tools in backpack) to leading a polished, brand-driven team. He discusses the marketing moves that elevated his company, how he represents his brand, and his approach to leading a team.

In this episode you will learn:

• Ways to stretch a limited marketing budget for maximum impact
• How to attract steady business from top architects
• How to set your jobsites apart through branding and presentation
• How to get your team engaged in learning and using new technology

Resources: 

Learn more about Vought Construction here.

 

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
Job Tread Connect is back again this coming January 14th
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(00:21):
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We can't wait to see you in Dallas.
Welcome to the podcast where wetake a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.

(00:41):
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back everybody.
Today I'm very excited.
I have got Devin Vaught, who isthe owner of VT Construction,
located in Berkeley, California.

(01:03):
You know, uh, Devon does bothnew builds, amazing looking new
builds, and some awesome remodels.
You know, I'm super jealous.
I, uh, I took a look at yourwork, Devin looks really awesome.
So I'm excited to haveyou on to Builder Stories.
Welcome to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having me,and thanks for the compliment.
Yeah, absolutely.
So why don't you give us a littlebit of background, you know,

(01:23):
how'd you get into construction?
The first place, you know,how'd you start your business?
What, what, what led to all that?

devon (01:30):
Um, yeah, I, uh, the, the name of the company is VOC Construction.
Uh, I founded it in 2010.
Um, at that time I was just, uh, reallyjust doing handyman kind of stuff.
Um, I, I was doing work on someone'shouse and then next door they were
selling the house, and the realtoractually walked over and she said,
Hey, you know, would you mind comingin to take a look at this house?

(01:52):
And, uh, that actually grew into a, awhole business in itself was just helping
realtors get their homes to the market anddoing, just doing little odds and ends.
And then they would buy a, anew house and I would then go
and fix up their new house.
And it just, just kinda evolved intothat to when I started eventually

(02:12):
doing kitchens and bath, and then I gotlicense and then everything just grew.
It just grew into nowbuilding custom luxury homes.

Eric (02:21):
That's awesome, man.
It's, uh, again, I was,uh, very impressed.
Uh, I think that one on the side ofthe, uh, the, the cliff there, the,
uh, looked, looked really impressive.
Uh, how, how long did that one take you?

devon (02:34):
That took right at a year.
Um, that house, it, it's, it'snot a typical of what we do.
It's more, uh, that's a 1936 home.
And so most of the stuff we do islike, it's, it's new, it's modern.
Um, but that house, um, we actuallystayed within the aesthetic, that
old aesthetic, that 1936 aesthetic.

(02:56):
And, um, it cantilevers over a cliff.
That cliff is the edge of anold, um, abandoned quarry.
I actually live just below that house.
So every day I walk out, I look up andI, I see that house overlooking the hill.
So it's, it's kind of nice to, uh,that some of my neighbors always
ask me, they say, you know, Isee you out there in the morning.
I see you looking up at that house.

(03:16):
You must be proud of it.
I say, yeah, yeah, I am.

Eric (03:19):
That's pretty awesome.
So, started back in 2010 doinghandyman work, you know, now
building amazing custom builds.
I mean, like, what, what was it, so in,in the early days, like, you know, how
did you get your first couple clients?
What did that sort of, you know, looklike versus how have you grown the
team, you know, to what it is today?

devon (03:40):
Well, in the beginning, um, I was doing all the work myself.
And, uh, funny enough when, uh, I, I,I moved here from Florida and I did
not have a truck in the beginning.
I had a motorcycle and I wouldactually put stuff in my backpack
on the motorcycle and I would driveto and from the, the job sites.

(04:01):
And, um, at that time I would just.
I, I would hire whoevercould help me, friends.
And, you know, people, peopleI met just randomly, I would
say, Hey, can you come help me?
And it was, it was veryprimitive at that time.
Um, eventually once I starteddoing Kitchen of the Baths, I did
like hire people full-time, butit started out as just one person.

(04:23):
And then, um, you know, eventuallyI had to hire, uh, office staff.
Um, hold on, we're gonna cut this, butcan you hear that in the background?
No, we're good.
Okay.
All right.
Um, so, uh, yeah, I had to hirea bookkeeper, um, in the very
beginning and that person had helpedme just take, take hold of the, the

(04:45):
QuickBooks and, uh, that kind offreed me up to do a lot more sales.
And I, um.
In the very beginning, I found a bookat the lumber yard and it was, uh,
how to, how to grow a constructioncompany or something like that.
I mean, it was a very old book.
And one of the things that I remember fromthat book was, um, put down the tool belt.

(05:08):
You can't grow a company.
You can't have a company ifyou're also swinging the hammer.
And from that, even if I made lessmoney, I just had, I just delegated.
I just started delegatingand delegating, delegating.

Eric (05:23):
Nice.
So it, it sounds like you've kindof gravitated more to the, to
this focus on the sales side, youknow, getting the clients in the
door, kind of getting it going.
And then do you have likefull-time project managers that
sort of take it once, once youget 'em into contracting phase?

devon (05:39):
Yeah, so how we do it now is, um, I basically do most of the sales.
Um, my business partnerdoes some sales too, but um.
I'm, I'm, I'm good at sales andI, I take on the, the larger
projects and, uh, I sell those.
And from that we then sign aprofessional service agreement after
I've kind of sold the job, toldthem a little bit about our company.

(06:01):
My business partner then takes overand helps build out an estimate.
And, um, just helps 'emthrough the whole process.
Uh, eventually we have a handoff meeting.
I'm sure a lot of your listenersdo the same thing in that meeting.
That's the, you know,salesperson estimator.
We're outta the picture.
Here's your dedicated projectmanager, here's the superintendent.

(06:23):
These are the people you're gonnabe dealing with from now on.
And, uh, I'm always still available.
You know, they'll sometimesreach out to me if they've, you
know, if something comes up.
But pretty much we try tomake sure that the project
managers are their go-to people.

Eric (06:38):
That's awesome.
So, so where.
Where are your clients finding you?
How, how are they finding out about you?
I mean, I'm, I've obviously found thatyou've got a great looking website, but
is that, have you always had the websiteor like, kind of what's, what's it
look like from a marketing perspective?
When did you start investing inmarketing and what other activities
have you done that have, you know,resulted in, uh, new leads, customers?

devon (06:59):
Yeah, that's good question.
Um, it's probably the same story as,as, as most contractors, a lot of
contractors say, oh, I never advertise.
Uh, you know, all my stuffcomes from word of mouth.
And yeah, that's howit is in the beginning.
That's, but you know, that wordof mouth is you're just getting
whatever leads that come your way.
You know, you're not really getting,maybe they're not all quality leads,

(07:21):
but in the very beginning, um, you know,most contractors aren't charging enough.
So they're getting a lot ofclients just off of that.
You know, they're getting a lotof clients saying, oh, well this
guy does great work and his pricesare great, so let's hire him.
And then they tell theirfriends and, you know.
You have to grow outta that or youwill be pigeonholed into being the

(07:42):
cheap contractor that does these jobs.
And so eventually we had tobecome more professional.
You know, we had to grow out of that.
And the website definitely helps, um,doing, uh, brochures or, you know, just
even having all your people in the fieldwear a branded shirt, you know, showing
up to the job sites in a nicer vehiclethat's branded, not the old beat up

(08:06):
truck with a dog hanging out the window.
You know, you, you want to be presentable.
Um, but really, I would say for,for most contractors is, you know,
you need to spend a little bit ofmoney on branding and marketing.
This is gonna get you outof that pigeonhole where.
You know, the clients that I'mdealing with now, they, they

(08:27):
don't want chuck in a truck.
They are willing to pay extrafor the guy that shows up that
looks like he's put together.
And, you know, some, I think in thebeginning, you, you fake it till you
make it a little bit, you know, you,you appear the part, maybe if it's
not there and you know, if you buildit, they will come kind of thing.
You need to, you need toeventually walk the walk.

(08:49):
But, um, I mean, that's how I did itin the beginning is I really just,
I, I always came off as confidentas if I knew how to do the job and
sometimes I'd have to learn or I wouldhire the people that did know the
job, but I always maintain trying tolook like a real company, I guess.
Um, but even if you just spenda little bit on marketing,

(09:12):
you don't have to to go crazy.
I think some consultants willrecommend three to 7% of your, your
annual revenue on, on marketing.
In the beginning, you know,just, just smart, start small.
Um, I've even hired, uh, I live right nextto Cal to, to Berkeley, um, university,
and I've, I've hired, uh, students, calstudents to help with, uh, Instagram and

(09:36):
just little marketing stuff coming outto the job site, taking videos of me.
Yeah, you can, you cando a lot with a little.

Eric (09:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, and I think it'ssuch a great point too.
I mean, so many people don't, you know,take the time to just focus on those
little details about showing up, you know,looking like a professional, acting like
a professional branded, you know, just,again, like you, you gotta, you gotta
build that trust from that first momentthat you show up at that, at that, you
know, prospect's house, you know, or theirbuilding, you know, and I, and I think a

(10:05):
lot of people don't always, uh, you know,take that as seriously as they should.
You know, you can't, can't have mud onyour boots, can't smell like cigarettes.
Things like that, that like, youknow, this, this prospect, you know,
you, you gotta make them want tohave you into your home, you know,
and make them feel comfortable.
And so I think it does come down tojust being professional and showing up
with the right, you know, right, rightattire, right attitude, right brand.

(10:26):
Yeah.

devon (10:26):
You want to be, you want to be on the same level as your clients.
You do not want to have thishierarchy of them above you.
You want to come to, to it as thatyou're, you're equals, you know?
And that, um, like these people have acertain lifestyle, you know, I'm not,
I'm not selling them construction.
I'm selling them a lifestyle,you know, and so how to, how

(10:48):
do we convey that to them?
And a, a big part of itis talking the same talk.
You know, like, I mean, you know, I,I take clients out to nice restaurants
that's like, I don't spend a whole lot onthe actual marketing stuff, but I spend
money on whining and dining, uh, clients.
So, you know.
Find finding nice places to take themand, or even just sending them and,

(11:13):
uh, their, their spouse out to dinner.
You know, giving them a giftcard, but like trying to
be, be as equal as possible.
Um, so you, 'cause that's not the rightfoot you want to get started off on.
Yeah.
You do not want them talkingdown to you in any type of way.

Eric (11:28):
So are, are you, are you, are you taking them out to dinner
or sending them out, you know,kind of dinner on their own?
Is this all before they become aclient where you're still trying
to sort of build the, and earnthe relationship or is it after

devon (11:38):
both?
We, um, in the, the verybeginning, we'll do that.
Like, I'll reach out to, um, architectsbecause we're, we're architect driven.
We don't do design in-house.
And so our, our clientsare really the architects.
So I will reach out to architectsand, um, I'm a, I'm a big fan of just
meeting people in person, shakingtheir hand, Hey, this is who we are.

(12:02):
Um, we.
We'll give, um, architects like alittle, you know, book of our, our
projects and show 'em some of our work.
And, um, I'll bring, I'll say,Hey, can I, can I come by and,
uh, bring your staff some lunch?
And then me and my business partner,Jorge, we will just give them a
presentation right there and say,Hey, this is, this is what we do.

(12:24):
This is some of the projects we've done.
Um, but if they're open to it,we'll we'll take 'em out to lunch.
Um, and then I try to keeptrack of all my past clients and
I'll just hit 'em up regularly.
The, the ones I really like and,uh, just take 'em out to, to dinner
and, 'cause they have, you know,find out your favorite client, you

(12:47):
know, hone in on them 'cause theirfriends are probably similar to them.
So do, do all you can to, to court them.

Eric (12:56):
Yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's great advice.
You know, that that book lookedpretty, uh, pretty legit.
There.
Is that, uh, I mean, what,what's it cost to produce that?

devon (13:05):
This is kind of expensive, honestly.
And so this is more for, um, you know,and it's like a case study book that
shows like the builds in pro progress.
And, um, this is probably about 80 bucks.
Um, it's, but again, thisis not for everybody.
This is like, if I am going to tryto put my best foot forward with an

(13:27):
architect, you know, the architectsdo want to see like there's detailed
shots of stuff in that book.
There's um, there's also scope oflike how complex the sites are.
So those are the things that I'mtrying to show architects that like,
hey, we can take these projectson and look at the end result.
We can get that, thatproduct that you want.

(13:47):
Uh, yeah.
So, we'll, you know, in the beginningI'll spend thousands of dollars
if, if it means working with thearchitect that I wanna work with.

Eric (13:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's, it's such a like, Imean, it's first time I've kind of heard
of someone actually giving out you.
It's such a nice, well, bounded,I mean, it's, it's really a full
presentation, but in a book form.
But like, you know, that's something thatthey're gonna keep around, you know, so
many times when you give 'em a, a handoutor a flyer, a pamphlet or whatever,
like, it just goes straight to the trash.
But you gave 'em like a piece ofart that they're gonna keep on their

(14:17):
shelves, keep on their, you know,coffee table, like, pull that out and
they can actually show that in theirconversations with the homeowners.
So I, I love that.
That's a, that's a

devon (14:25):
great move, man.
We, we all go to these builder summitsand, and you know, no offense, but
I've gotten your brochures before andthey stay on the desk for a couple
weeks and then they're in the trash.
But what could I do that would be likea coffee piece, you know, a coffee table
piece or sit on their shelf and thenat the end has my name and, you know,

(14:46):
just, just constantly reminding them.
It's all about branding.
Yeah.

Eric (14:50):
Well, and, and I think it's a really, uh, it's, it's, it's a
really smart move to really focus on.
Those architects.
I mean, it sounds like even early onthe, the, the, the realtors, you know,
kind of finding those networks thatyou can tap into where they can be a
constant stream of bringing you moreprojects, more opportunities, you know,
but like, you gotta invest in buildingthat relationship with them and, you

(15:11):
know, I think a lot of people reallydo need to go find those opportunities.
And I mean, you gotta, you know,you gotta get out there and go, go
get involved in the local community,go, you know, buy them lunch, buy
them breakfast, like sponsor theplaces that they're hanging out.
I mean, that's a great opportunity to justkeep showing up every time you're meeting
new people, you're, you know, reinforcingthe existing relationships you've got.

(15:31):
You know, I think it's, uh,you know, clearly, clearly
made all the right moves there.

devon (15:34):
Yeah.
Get, get creative.
I mean, I've just kind of gottenobsessed with marketing and stuff lately.
I mean, really just this year, justlike, and, and the wheels start turning
and I, I heard this story of anothercontractor who was on the East coast and
he was, they, they lived on a lake ormaybe it was a Great Lakes or something,
but he started going to boat shows.

(15:55):
Like, like where they're selling, youknow, half a million dollar boats and he
would like kind of orient himself to, um,the wives and try to try to bring them in.
He would set up a whole station nextto, you know, the only contractor at
this boat show, but he would be sellingkitchens and he was trying to get
the honey before you get your boat,can I have my kitchen kind of thing.

(16:18):
And, you know, it could be vice versa,however that relationship works.
But that's how he was going for it.
And, um, most of his businesscomes from that $5,000 booth that
he sets up each year and he getsmillions of dollars of work from it.

Eric (16:33):
Man, that's, uh, just being creative.
I could, I could totallysee that working on my life.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Uh, that's, uh, that's definitely agreat, you know, it's, it's about finding
those creative unique opportunities, youknow, and like, you know, being where
you want to meet your ideal client.
So I, you know, I, I love that, you know,you, you talked about kind of in, in, in,

(16:54):
in earlier we we're sort of talking about,like, you talked about just how important
it was for you to, you know, really focuson clarity and just, it sounded like
kind of clarity across the board from,you know, your vision to your systems,
to your communication, your brand.
Like, can you tell us a little bit moreabout that and how have you, how have
you sort of learned that over the years?

devon (17:15):
Hmm.
We had a, a company meeting this,this morning, and, um, some of the,
um, employees don't always wear theirbranding and it bothers the hell out
of me, um, just because I, I wantus to look like a, a complete unit.
And, um, I built this house, probablyone of the first homes I ever built.

(17:39):
And the client and my teamwas not in the uniforms.
They were honestly justlooked like a bunch of guys.
Uh, this was, this was a, a multimilliondollar home, um, that I, I still won
the job and I was able to build it.
And the client, um, came to meone day and she said, you know, I
don't know what it is about yoursubcontractor, the landscaper.
They just, they're just so professional.

(18:01):
And she sat there for thesecond, she said, you know,
I think it's their uniforms.
They all had the same colorhats, the same color shirts, and
same color pants, everything.
And then it just looked so professionaland that, that stuck with me.
Like, um, I don't know.
That just, yeah, that stuck withme where I have focused so much on

(18:22):
that, whether it's, it's on the,the, um, the fronts of our job sites.
They also are, are branded in a waythat have very pretty floral, um,
print instead of that ugly green,brown construction fencing that
just looks terrible on, on sites.
Ours are, are colorful, theylook nice in the neighborhood.

(18:43):
Um, it's just been very important to me.
To set myself apart from being aone of the old rough contractors.
Uh, and I, and I come from a family of,of blue collar workers, tradespeople.
And, um, I just, just wantedto set myself apart from them.

Eric (19:00):
So are you, you know, when, you know, and, and, and I'm, same deal.
Like I, I'm, I'm very big.
I mean, I pretty much every day wear ajob tread shirt actually makes it super
easy to get dressed every morning andjust grab a new one hanging on the, on
the, on the, on the, on the hanger there.
But like, are you providing your team,like, are, are you paying for that shirt?
Are you, you know, getting it,getting it branded for 'em?

(19:20):
Do you let them choose, youknow, what shirt or what color?
Or is it kind of like one set uniform?
They just gotta pick their size?

devon (19:27):
We went over that today.
Um, and it, 'cause some of the guys, theywant, um, the, the gray color 'cause it's,
it's lighter and it doesn't get as hot.
Some of the guys want the darker colorbecause it doesn't show up stains.
And I'm like, all right, canwe just come to agreement?
Who wears what, when?
Like, when can we do this?
And what we came to is, allright, the lighter shirts are

(19:49):
gonna be for the summer months.
The darker shirts are forthe winter and fall months.
You know, and that's kindof how we, we came to it.
But I do pay for all of them.
Um, you know, uniforms are expensiveand you really have to have a, a system
with the workers that they understandthat they are expensive and 'cause they
just think that these things come from,I don't know, the sky or something.

(20:13):
And, um, but yeah, I mean, I, Ibelieve it is like a, a law here too.
You can't have them pay for it.
You have to.
And, and I'm in Californiawhere our, our laws are much
different than anywhere else.
We, so we pay for everything.
And, um, we just, like today,uh, um, we said, if you need any
more, let us know, but you haveto always be in a branded uniform.

(20:34):
If not, we're gonna send you home.
And so just like to, to make that a point.
And, um, we're, it isin the company review.
Like if they're going through toomany uniforms, too many shirts, we're
gonna, we're gonna start telling them,I don't know yet that, but it's, it's
coming in the, the company reviewthat we may have to either give a

(20:55):
warning or, or figure out some systemof like, you know, you went through
10 shirts in the last three months.
What's going on, man?
Are you rolling around in them?

Eric (21:05):
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I, I think it's, uh, it is,
it's, it's, it's really importantthough that people do show up.
They, and they remember thatthey're representing, you
know, this company, this brand.
It's, it's not just about them, youknow, and they have to, you know,
make sure that they act appropriate.
And, you know, I think there's,there's something to be said
about just that professionalism.
And, you know, we, we,we do the same thing.

(21:27):
I mean, we got probably multiple colorssort of floating around, and I'm not
like, as, uh, particular about whichcolor, you know, people wear, but I, I
do know some people are very particularand you know, that they want to, to get
their own shirt branded or whatever.
It fits nice.
And, and we're totally fine with that,you know, we'll, we'll pay for it and,
you know, get the embroidery done.
But, you know, I think to to, to yourpoint, I mean, it's, it's about, you

(21:48):
know, showing up as a unit and as ateam and having that cohesiveness,
you know, so that, you know, in anysituation, no matter client walks in
the, in the office door, you have totake a team out to the, to the job
site, whatever gets thrown your way.
I mean, I, I, I think it's agreat move and, you know, I do, I
think it, it mentally elevates youwhen, when, when you're working.
Like, I know, I remember back in, youknow, business school, they always said,

(22:10):
you know, just, you know, dress, dress toimpress or dress like, you know, however,
you know, you, you, you need to show upand, you know, they, you know, told us to
wear like suit and ties and things likethat, which like, you know, I hate, I hate
suit and ties and I don't even, I think Imight have one in case, you know, there's
that raining day that we gotta put it on.
But like, you know, it's, it's moreabout just having that uniform,
having that brand, you know, andshowing up every day in that.

(22:32):
So I, I think it's awesome, man.
I, I, I love the, uh, youknow, the focus on it.
And it sounds like you've done a goodjob kind of getting the buy-in from the
team, you know, to, to, to buy into that.
It,

devon (22:42):
you know, it's, it's always a work in progress.
I mean, you, you just have toreally keep on it and let them know.
Like today, I, I just toldthem what the importance of it.
It's like.
I was telling them the, just cleaningup the fronts of the, the, um, projects,
you know, and making sure that, liketoday I saw one of the signs that's
got dust all over it, wipe it off.

(23:04):
Like that's what people are seeing.
And our clientele, they don'twant the chuck in a truck.
They want to see that professional site.
They wanna see, youknow, presentable people.
Um, so

Eric (23:17):
a hundred percent, I, I, I won't call anyone out, but I, I had a contractor
at my house and, you know, I let 'em putthe yard sign in there, but like, you
know, like halfway through the project,like, it's like falling over, just leaning
over, like just, it doesn't look good.
And it's like, you know,are you gonna fix that?
Like, is, am I supposed to go fix that?
Like, you know, come on, it's, it'smaking your, you know, brand and,
and, and, you know, then it makes mequestion your attention to detail.

(23:39):
You know, and like, it's like exactly.
I think they kind of miss the, thewhole point of putting the yard sign
there is to, you know, represent thecompany and do a great job and show that
you, you know, you're, you're, you're,you're a great contributing member
to the, you know, to the community.
And, you know, here you're justletting it fall over on the ground.
Like, you know, I, I don't know,but, uh, you know, I digress.
Uh, but, you know, look, I I,I'd love to hear more though.

(24:01):
Like, how, how have you, you know, focusedon, on clarity and, and, and really kind
of created, you know, the vision foryour company, the mission, core values?
Like how has this, you know,sort of helped unite your
team around those aspects?

devon (24:16):
Yeah.
Um, I'm, I'm very much abig picture kind of person.
Um, my, so, so Jorge my businesspartner, he's more of details.
Like, he, he's the implementer, youknow, where I'm the, like every day I'm
coming up with something new and he,it probably annoys the hell out of him.
'cause I'm just like, oh,well if we did this, um.

(24:39):
I think all of that came from, um, my,my uncle was also a builder and he was
just very big on, I know this is gonnasound cheesy, um, just integrity and not
integrity is a, a moral thing that youhear at church or something like that.
But just like keeping your word.
Just whatever you gotta do.

(24:59):
And so a lot of our core values in thiscompany have been built out of that.
They've, you know, um, just like really eeven even this morning, I, I, everybody's
very good about, uh, being on time'cause I'm such a stickler about that.
But it's, uh, what I was telling'em is like, we're not always
gonna be on time, but we'realways gonna be in communication.

(25:21):
So, you know, if you're gonna befive minutes late, you let us know
you're gonna be five minutes late.
Um, and that just goes for how wecommunicate with the clients too.
That that all transfers over.
It's, and that's what I've, I'mconstantly selling to the clients is that.
I think craftsmanship is thelowest rung of the ladder.

(25:41):
I honestly think that everybody,in all my competition, we can all
produce a really good project.
But what is that experience gonna be, belike again, we're still in the lifestyle.
Um, so that first thing is communication.
So you know, how, how, how do wecommunicate with them how, you know, every

(26:01):
day you just having them be involved,feeling like they're a part of this, this
project, having them have fun with it.
Um, and so that, that pretty much goesthroughout the company is just like
how, you know, this is what we do fora living, but how can we enjoy it?
How can we be proud of it?
Um, like that, that house that'sup on the hill, you know, I do look

(26:21):
at it every morning 'cause I'm,I'm proud of what these guys did.
And, um, you know, that was a, I mean,they were on harnesses with ropes.
I mean, this was a dangerous feat that weall, all produced and yeah, it's, it's.
Uh, it's fun doing this stuff and I'm,I'm very proud of it, but I, I guess the
clarity, where did the clarity come from?

Eric (26:42):
Like how, how often or, or at what point, like did you develop
like, you know, a vision statementand, and really try to formalize,
you know, these core values?
Like is this something that, you know,has been since day one or is this
something you kind of implementedalong the way and have it Yeah, it,

devon (26:58):
it's probably evolved out of my 4:00 AM showers.
Um, you know, it's, it's, it'sconstantly evolving and, um,
when did we actually sit down?
I mean, it's been a, it's only been afew years that we actually sat down.
Um, I think they were alwaysthere and just not written down.

(27:19):
Um, and yeah, it was, it was stilla company effort, but like we
all came to the same core values.
Um.
Because it was, they were just al already,already there, if that, that makes sense.
And we already knew we werealready operating in that way.
Um, but I think it is important tojust kind of figure out what, what is

(27:42):
your purpose and what, you know, whatare you trying to do in this industry
and what is gonna set you apart?
Um, I, I was just blessedto fall into construction.
I mean, I didn't even graduatehigh school and so I, I ended up
digging ditches in constructionand, um, I ended up loving it.
But, you know, I, I fell in love withbeing creative and, and making art, so.

(28:06):
Oh,

Eric (28:07):
so I mean, like, it sounds like you, you, it sounds like though,
like, kind of as a team, you cametogether and, and just formalized.
Documented what was sort of theunspoken, you know, guide that, that
you already had, but like, has thatbeen able to, you know, to, to help you?
Like, I mean, have youpublished it anywhere?

(28:28):
Like is it on like your website?
Do you have anything published that,you know, do you, do you use this
in the recruitment and the hiringprocess, like onboarding new people?
Like how have you, how have you kind oftaken it, you know, from just being this
kind of vision and idea and unspokento now, like actually implementing it?

devon (28:45):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's here in the office, um, and.
Every, every new, uh, employee,we, we do go over it with them
and tell 'em like, this is, youknow, this is what we we're up to.
We also, depending on what, uh, positionthey're in, but we, we go over our goals.
'cause we also have our 90 day, one year,three year and 10 year kind of overall

(29:06):
goals that we like to, to share with 'em.
Um, just, you know, the 10 year is likethe vision kind of thing that's like,
this is, this is where we're going.
But, um, I know some contractors,they'll, they'll place 'em at job sites.
I think that's a great idea.
'cause that is one of the things islike, it's, it's one thing to create like
an SOP or create your, your standardsand things and, but it's another

(29:30):
thing to get buy-in from everybody.
And I think that buy-in does take, youknow, posting it everywhere you can.
Um, yeah, just, it's kind of like thebranding, you know, it's, the more you
see it, the more you, you, you live it.

Eric (29:44):
No, I mean it, you know, when, when you talked about having, you know,
kind of that, that, that differentlook and feel to the job site than,
than any other contractor out there,it did kind of make me think like, man,
like, you know, because I remember Iwas, uh, actually I think one or two
episodes ago, I, I had, uh, uh, Bachfrom, uh, he was, he was from Condo
Works and, uh, and, and Forte projects.
But like he, he, he said that like theyhave really ingrained their, their core

(30:08):
values so much into, you know, the cultureof their company that like every single
job site, they hang it up and they tryto put it somewhere where it's just like.
The very first thing that someone'sgonna see when they, when they walk
in the, the door or they walk ontothe job site, is those core values.
And, you know, he said it just,it, it really, it, it's just,
it's a reminder to everyone.

(30:29):
And I, I think he, you know, like the,the effect that it, it has not just on his
team, but everyone else who's involved inthis project, you know, whether it's, you
know, the subcontractors, whether it'sthe clients, I mean, you know, if you, the
clients are seeing and understanding likethe operations and, and how important it
is that they live by these core values.

(30:50):
Like, I think it just does agreat job of setting the tone
for the entire client experience.
And like, you know, anytime somethinggoes wrong, like they always really
try to point back to, you know, well,how could we have done that better?
I mean, our core values are, you know,this, like, this didn't match that.
Like, we didn't live up to that.
You know, how can we improve?
And like, you know, it, it, it almostkind of makes me wanna, like how you might

(31:11):
be able to incorporate that into sortof that, that, that existing, you know.
Experience that you're trying toput off that's, that is different.
It's not just that standard, you know,orange, you know, plastic fencing there.
Like, you know, you're doing somethingdifferent already and, you know,
given the, given the, the focus on, onclarity, I think it could be pretty neat.
Well, well

devon (31:30):
you, you said the word too is like set, set the tone.
You know, the, it's the general'sresponsibility to set the tone for the
entire project and how everything is.
So for example, in the today'scompany meeting, um, I was talking
about just site cleanliness.
We had a framer that, uh, as a newframer, he doesn't quite know all of, I

(31:52):
mean, we've gone over these things withhim, but he didn't keep the site clean.
And, um, I brought it up to ouremployees and to our superintendents and
they said, oh, well it's their fault.
I said, no, no, no.
It's like it is your responsibility.
And I get that like, you don't wannabe cleaning up after them, but you
are going to clean up after them.
And when you see this, when they see youdoing that, they're going to join in.

(32:16):
Tell me who's, who's not cleaning up.
I'll let them know.
But it's our responsibilityas the GC to always keep it
clean, you know, no matter what.
And so, you know, you do have to be, bemommy and daddy with, with these guys.
But at the end of the day, uh, youknow, I'm gonna get the phone call
about the, the trash or the cleanliness.

(32:37):
So it's, it's a team effort, but we allhave to share that same, you know, want
and need for things to be professionaland, and just for a certain standard.
And I'm telling you, whenyou live to that standard, it
brings up everybody around you.
Because when, when theystart seeing that it's.
I use this example today in the meeting.
It's like if you go to somebody'shouse and it's a mess, you're

(32:59):
going to treat it like a mess.
You're going to leave a can layingon the table, but if it's pristine,
you're gonna take your shoes off,you're gonna throw your trash
away, you're gonna keep it tidy.

Eric (33:08):
Absolutely.
You know, and, and the other thingI'm kind of sensing, and it sounds
like you, my impression is you doa really good job of communicating
and giving feedback to your team.
It's not like just the bigthings, but it's the small things.
It's the, the continual, like,Hey, we can always improve.
We can always grow.
But like, you know, you're, you'recommunicating that in a way that is,

(33:31):
you know, very thoughtful and, you know,kind of trying to be, uh, you know.
Positive, but like, we gotta move forward.
We gotta keep, you know, that,that constructive criticism.
It's not just like, Hey, I'm gonnaget pissed off and, you know,
kind of carry this grudge around.
It's, you know, it seems like youguys are meeting regularly, you're
having these opportunities to givefeedback, to keep improving, you
know, holding each other accountable.

(33:53):
Is that, would you, wouldyou agree with that?

devon (33:55):
I would agree with that.
And, um, the, I think the hardestthing for any leader is giving the
attaboy, you know, giving the paton the back, um, because we're so
focused on what's not working or whatneeds a little bit of a correction.
And, um, that's what I've been working onthe last, like, last six months is like,
just really trying to say, you know, goodjob and, you know, uh, this little thing

(34:22):
needs to be adjuster or whatever, but likereally just trying to say, say attaboy.
Um, and even in the.
Um, meeting today, we wentaround and kind of did that.
Um, I sat in, um, a leadershipmeeting for Sun Design.
They're on the East coast and they, theirleadership meeting has, um, just shout

(34:42):
outs to all the different employees of,uh, if somebody did something, um, good.
They just like are recognized.
And I was like, man, that is great.
You know, just some way,'cause a lot of times people
aren't looking for more money.
They just want to be acknowledged,you know, they want to feel
that they have a purpose.
They, you know.
Yeah.
Uh, so that's gottenbeen a big given more.

Eric (35:04):
You know, we, uh, so, so we do a weekly, uh, team lunch where like
every Wednesday we have a catered,you know, team lunch for everyone.
And, and, and the very first thing I doat the beginning of that team lunch is
I, is, I read out of all the, uh, likewe have who's kicking ass boxes around
the office where anyone can submit, just,you know, anonymous little note about
somebody who went above and beyond gotsome sort of awesome, you know, results.

(35:26):
Some something that they did, right?
Like, you know, just anyonecan, can, can submit those.
And so, you know, it's how we openup every single team meeting is
just kind of reading through those.
And I think it's, it, it really hasbeen such a great way to recognize.
You know, everyoneforegoing above and beyond.
And it's the things that, like, there'sno way that like any, everyone or
anyone could have like even seen allthese things that happen, you know?

(35:48):
But when we have this like, culture oflike, you know, creating recognition
and, and trying to, you know, callthat out, like it, it reinforces all
of the things that are going right.
It reinforces the things when peoplehave gone above and beyond and, you
know, when you, when you think nobodysaw or nobody's looking, like, you know,
I think it's so great to do those typesof things because like, it, it, you

(36:09):
know, it's, it's just you, you're right.
Like people need more than just money.
You know?
Like, you've got to, you'vegot, you've gotta recognize
them for their contributions andpeople want to feel appreciated.
And so, you know, to the extent that like.
You know, you, you can find ways torecognize people and maybe it's, you
know, hey, you got, you got calledout in a, in a review, you know, or

(36:31):
you know, someone on the team said,Hey, you did an awesome job here.
Or, or whatever it may be.
Like, you know, I think having those, youknow, those opportunities to create that
recognition, it really, it goes so far.

devon (36:43):
Yeah.
And it really doesn't take a lot ofeffort, but the most common excuse is
just, you know, I'm, I'm busy and I,I I, I'm not thinking about that or
whatever, but it's like, as, as leaders,we, we just have to slow down and,
and take that extra step to do that.
How, how often do you guys meet as a team?
Uh, the biweekly with the wholecompany and then the, um, kind

(37:07):
of more leadership people.
It's, it's weekly.
Gotcha.

Eric (37:10):
Yeah.
That's great.
And so, you know, you, you had alsokind of mentioned, you know, about just
the importance of, you know, focus.
And focusing on the right things, youknow, it, it sounds like, you know,
kind of within each person's role,you know, do you guys have that like,
very clearly defined what their, youknow, their responsibilities are and
what they need to, to, to be doing?

devon (37:32):
Not enough for the production team?
Um, the, like the, the projectmanagers, the superintendents, um,
some of the more office staff theyhave, they have that role written down.
Um, because we subcontract so much,um, a lot of our guys are, are kind
of more well-rounded, you know,they do a lot of different task.

(37:54):
Um, so, and the pe the peoplein the field, we, we don't, and
maybe, maybe that's somethingwe should, should implement.

Eric (38:01):
Yeah.
I mean, I think, you know, again,finding out ways to, you know, even kind
of like what, what are the, you know,how, how do you measure their success?
Right.
You know?
And if, if, if they know that, thenthey're gonna focus on it, right.

devon (38:13):
We, we had an employee review, um, after the, the meeting today.
And, um, that was one of the things,you know, you know, over the six, next
six months, what do you want to do?
What, what do you, what can we do for you?
And, um, this person just reallywants to learn more about, uh,
reading blueprints, you know, hewants to learn more about that.
And I said, okay, well then we will, we'llput together, you know, an hour each, each

(38:36):
week, you know, to go over some thingsand kind of train you and, and do that.
And, um, yeah, just like, it's,it's really checking in, you know,
I'm just like, you know what?
I, I think we get so preoccupied withthe day to day, um, that we just forget,
you know, that we're, we're friends andthat we work together and, and you know,

(38:58):
like sometimes I'll just forget to ask'em about their, their family and stuff.
So it's like, you know, just taking that,like, just checking in and that, that, um.
Evaluation, or you could callit a, a check-in or a review,
whatever you wanna call it.
But it's really justlike, how are you doing?
Um, you know, let's sit down for a minute.

Eric (39:19):
How often do you, what's that?
How, how, how frequently do you do it?
Bi-annually.
Okay.
Twice a year With each, with each person.
And who's involved in that, in thatperformance review or check in?
It's, it's me and Jorge.
Um, okay.
My business partner.
Nice.
Yeah, it's, uh, I, I,I, I, I agree with you.
I think it's so important.
I mean, here at, at Job Tread, I believelike all of the, kind of the, the managers

(39:41):
of, of the teams, I think they typicallytry to do like a quarterly check-in with
all their people, uh, at, at a minimum,you know, we do an annual review at the
end of every, at, at the end of each year.
You know, we're all, I willalso be involved in that one.
Um, but it is, you know, I, I, I. Ithink that it is so important that as,
as leaders and managers, like we do takethe time to sit down and give feedback

(40:04):
and, and coach, you know, help people.
You know, I, I think a lot of peoplejust sort of, you know, assume that
like, you know, and, and even likenew employees, like you gotta take the
time to train them, to onboard them.
Like, you know, you just think thatthey're somehow gonna learn by osmosis,
by hanging around and seeing other people.
And it's like, man, like, yeah,they, they probably can eventually.
But like, you could spend six months,you know, trying to get somebody up

(40:26):
to speed versus if you just devoted,you know, enough time in the first
month, you know, they could be up to,up, up to speed, like so much faster.
And, and they're gonna understand,you know, their, their role better.
They're gonna know what you're expecting.
Like so many people don't like,document that and then don't follow
through with training and then theyget frustrated, you know, because that
person like didn't read their mindand didn't understand how they're, you

(40:50):
know, we're being measured for success.
So, you know, I think, uh, Ithink it is important and, and

devon (40:54):
I've been guilty of that.
Um, it hasn't, it's just been recentlywhere I've actually started an onboarding
like protocol and, um, the, we just hireda new person who, he actually worked for
me a long time ago and he is very smart.
I wanted him back.
I kind of kinda lost him toanother, another contractor.
And so this time I, um.

(41:14):
I basically just put togethera spreadsheet that went week by
week of, um, different videos,different literature that I wanted
him to read over and to know.
And then I even gave him a set ofdrawings for a particular job, and I
said, okay, over the next couple weeks,and I put times in this spreadsheet of
when you, you know, spend an hour readover it, here's a, here's a notepad,

(41:36):
write down any questions you might have.
And then we'll, we will, we'llmeet and talk about those.
Um, that's completely differentthan, you know, used to.
I would just be like, all right, show upMonday and, uh, we'll push you to work.
And I, I think, um, you can, you canresolve a lot of issues very early
on if you, if you do stuff like that.

(41:57):
I know a lot of contractors think,oh, you're gonna pay for them to
sit down and, and watch some videos.
Well, yeah.
I mean, we, we watched thejob tread videos today.
You know, we watched, you know, howto do the daily logs and, and so
yeah, I'm paying for them to sit andwatch those videos, but how many times
are you gonna repeat that to them?

(42:17):
They're gonna ask you amillion times how to do this.
Well have the, bring thewhole team together, you know,
contractors like production.
Let's bring everybody together.
Let's watch one video, get everybodyon the same page, and then in
a week, you know, you check inand make sure they've got it.
But just that's, I'm, I'm nowgetting more into doing those things.

(42:39):
I am, um, I don't know if you, uh, you,you've been to the Remodelers Summit,
um, with ra and so I'm, I'm part of RAand that's kind of been my goals over
the last, um, I don't know, six monthsor something, but is to create these
onboarding procedures, create new SOPs,and just continually just, just growing.

(43:01):
That's, that's all about.
So,

Eric (43:02):
so how long have you, uh, been part of re remodeler's advantage?

devon (43:06):
I've been in part, uh, I think two years now, a little over two years.
And, uh, they're actually comingto, my group is coming to Berkeley.
Um, I would recommend to any builders.
This is, this is one of the, the biggestrecommendations I I say is, um, and it
doesn't have to be remodelers advantage.
I've been, um, since I started,I've been paying for coaches.

(43:28):
I mean, I, I, I didn't pay for collegeeducation, but I've paid in consultants.
I've, I've paid in seminars and,uh, with, with ra, you know, that's
a, it's a group of contractors.
They're gonna come to myoffice in Berkeley in October.
They're gonna interview, um, my employees.
They're gonna look for things that Ican maybe do differently or just alter,

(43:49):
and they're gonna get real feedbackfrom my employees without me around.
I'm not gonna be there.
And, uh, then they're gonna just,we're gonna spend a week working on
these things and like, what, what wecan do to, to implement new changes.
But again.
Just be as a, as a business leader ora business owner, you know, you're,
you're on this island by yourself and,um, you know, you, you, you gotta get

(44:13):
around other people that are doingwhat you're doing and other people
that are doing it better than you.
Um, if, if you have to payfor that, then pay for it.
It's gonna be a great investment.
Um, I've, I've paid for business coachesand, you know, like RA and, um, I would
highly recommend ra, but, um, yeah,

Eric (44:31):
yeah, I think that's, you know, I, I think that really is so powerful.
I mean, you, you, you know, youdon't know what you don't know,
and starting a business isn't easy.
And on starting a constructionbusiness is, is even harder.
I mean, there, there are so many thingsthat can go wrong in a construction
project, and then there's so manythings that can go wrong in a business.
And so, like, you know, when you are ableto surround yourself with a community of

(44:55):
people that are going through the samethings, where they've already been through
those things, like, you know, you, youreally like, you, you're saving yourself
so much time and headache by gettinginvolved with others in these communities.
And like, I, I'm such a huge advocatefor, for RA and for all these types of
groups to like, and, and, and, you know,I realize I've got this unique vantage

(45:15):
point, but like, I mean, I, I literally,like, you can see people join, you
know, these groups and like, you know,usually takes like, you know, a month
or two kind of, you know, to sort ofget, get grounded, kind of really get,
get into it and get everything going.
But like there's this point whereit's just like such a noticeable
turning point, you know, where thingsjust start to pull up, you know, and
it's like you, you, you could just.

(45:35):
Be doing this for years andyears and years and like just
frustrated and not seeing change.
And it's like, it's because you're doingthe same thing over and over and just
expecting some different outcome and,and you're not making the right moves
and you're not like implementing, youknow, the right systems and the right
processes and like learning from others.
And so like, I, you know, I thinkit's, I think it's great that you've,
you've invested from the very beginningin that and, and, and you've bought

(45:58):
yourself that knowledge and thattraining, you know, and you didn't
have to learn everything the hard way.

devon (46:05):
Well, I still learned a lot of stuff the hard way, but, but, uh, I
mean, I made a lot of mistakes and, andyou always will, but construction's one
of the oldest industries in existence.
It's like we don't haveto reinvent the wheel.
Yeah.
There are people that, as this is,I've sold it to people this way,
is like, if you could take somebodyfrom, I don't know, name a $20 million

(46:27):
company or something, and you couldhire that CEO to come in and, you know.
Be your CEO, how much would you payfor them to bring all their system?
You would pay a ton.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you don't have to pay that much.
You, you could, I, I alwayssay at least 1% put 1% of your
revenue towards some coaching.

(46:47):
I mean, you only have to do that.
RA's really not that expensive,and there is that tipping point.
You know, if you, you know, they'regonna show you the steps you need to
take, follow those steps and just do iteven, it's kinda like wax on, wax off.
You know, you, you, you might notthink it's important, but it is.
You know, it's just keep, keep up with it.

(47:09):
Keep doing those, it's not gonnahappen overnight, but if you stay
consistent, you will get a payoff.
You know, there willbe that tipping point.

Eric (47:17):
I mean, I, and you know, look, I, I, I love even just like how you get to
go into so many other people's businesses.
See how they're operating.
Like, it, it's just invaluable, you know?
I mean, it's, it's probably even betterwhen they all come to your business and
then you like, I mean, you're the, youknow, the main focus, but like, even
going to others and just, you know,what other opportunity would you have

(47:37):
to go and sit in their shoes for thatmoment and to see the challenges that
they're having and then like, be able torelate that back to your own challenges.
You know, that's so much

devon (47:47):
like e like I, I'm, that's why I brought up, uh, sun Design because
they're an RA and they're much, they're,they're a pretty large company and,
uh, I asked them if I could sit in onsome of their leadership meetings and
they, they're like, boom, boom, boom.
I mean, it's just, it, it justelevates you when you see something
that systematized, you're like,wow, this is where I want to go.

(48:10):
And for your listeners that, thatdon't know what RA is, I mean that's,
you know, you're in a, this group of,let's say it's 10 other businesses, um.
You're sharing everything, youknow, you all are, are sharing
your numbers, you're sharing yourp and l, your balance statements.
And then not only that, we meet upevery six months and we're sharing
what are we doing that works andwe're stealing each other's ideas.

(48:32):
That's, you know, constantly juststealing, stealing, stealing.
And then RA has a lot of justbasic information for you.
They have classes, they have allsorts of stuff that you can, you
can take and you can learn from 'em.
So yeah, hands down, one ofthe best things I've done.

Eric (48:48):
Would you say that, uh, you know what, how, how has that
impacted, like the way that you selljobs and the way that you run jobs?

devon (48:58):
Uh, well, the way that I sell jobs is, it's funny, I am, uh, I'm now
using their other resource, which is theSandler training, Sandler Sales Training.
So I, I was on a coaching call today.
Um, and that's, you know, that'sanother resource through ra.
Um, and man, I, I've been.
Take using some of those methodsin, in sales, and they, they work.

(49:22):
Uh, you know, I've, I've even goneon a couple, couple sales calls
that they weren't really qualified,but I just wanted to play with some
of these new things I'm learning.
And it's, it's, it's, it'spretty unbelievable, um,
just what you learn on sales.
But as far as management,um, and how I, how I Yeah.
Manage the company, um, I mean,it's, it's so intertwined.

(49:44):
I mean, every, yeah, now, now it'slike all the SOPs, all the, every,
everything standardized in the company'skind of came from ra and it's, it's
not necessarily it came from ra, butlike I've developed it inside that and
through these meetings, my wheels getturning, you know, because you're gonna
go and sit with these other builders,um, you know, for almost a week, and your

(50:10):
phone is off, you know, you're, you're.
In this meeting, and it's justso much stuff is gonna come up.
You're gonna be writingdown notes the whole time.
And I think, uh, even just from havingit be every six months like that,
you get this kind of energy boost.
As soon as you get all of the, themeeting, you're like, all right, let's go.
And then, you know, towards the endof six months, you're like, eh, and

(50:32):
then you can have another meeting.
So it's, it's really this greatlike kind of ebb and flow,
but it's constantly going up.
Yeah.

Eric (50:39):
Um, so when you think back, just, you know, again, the last, you know, 15
or so years that you've been doing this,I mean, like what have been the biggest
challenges that you've had to overcome?
You know, may maybe things thatyou didn't expect to be challenges.
Like what, what's been thehardest part about building, you
know, this multimillion dollarcompany that you've created?

devon (50:59):
Um,
yeah, it's just rolling with the punches.
I think.
Um, starting a, startinga company's hard, um.
It really is.
It's, and you know, every morningyou're, you're gonna wake up and you're

(51:20):
either gonna wanna do it or you'renot, but you're gonna have to do it,
you know, on those mornings that,that you don't wanna do it, you just,
you just get out there and do it.
But, um,
yeah.
Um, shoot, ask that question again.

Eric (51:36):
I mean, I'm just, you know, curious, kinda like, is there anything
that, like, you know, let's sayyou were to like, start over today.
You know, what, what do you like,you know, what have you learned that,
like, you, you think you would've donedifferently, you know, that that might've
helped you to, to build quicker or, youknow, build a better team or, you know,
what, any, anything that you would, uh,

devon (52:00):
yeah.
Um.
I probably read a lot more.
Um, I mean, I do read a lot and Iread even more, but I would definitely
start a group like RA very early on.
And, um, I think the hardestpart of really running a company
is just dealing with employees.
You know, it's like, I mean,keeping everybody busy.

(52:22):
I, I spent so many years and, um,you know, loaned the company money,
went into debt, did all thesethings to just keep everybody busy.
Um, and I think it's, it's mostly paidoff, but, you know, you gotta, it's a,
it's an investment that you're not gonnasee a return on for a very long time.

(52:43):
And, um, if you think you'regonna get rich quick by
starting a company, good luck.
Um, you know, people only noticebusiness owners after they've made it.
They don't see the, the countlessnights of, of no sleep and.
Just, I mean, I'm sure I've takenyears off my life and just really
trying to, to make this thing work.

(53:05):
Um, but, you know, if I were to doit again, I would say get around
people that, that are doing it better.
Um, I wish I would'vegotten an RA a lot sooner.
Um, I wish I would've just yeah.
Learn from others, you know?
Now I've got a couple friendsaround me that are also business
owners, and I can talk to them.
I can ask them questions, but find amentor if you, if you don't have the

(53:27):
money to, to invest in RA right now.
I mean, there's a lot of us out therethat if you look around and you're
your community and you call up businessowners, I've, I've had people call me
and I was, yeah, let's go to lunch.
Sure.
You know, do it, do it.
I'll just, just, you know, Hey, can I,and I, I did this for many years starting
out as just like, can I take you to lunch?

(53:49):
Uh, you know, like, I, I just wantto pick your brain for a little
bit and I'll pay for your lunch.
You know, people, peoplewill take you up on that.
So, absolutely.

Eric (53:58):
What, what would you say, you know, and, and, and, and you talked about,
you know, I mean, some, some mornings,man, it's, it's, you know, it's hard,
you know, and you, and, and, and youmight've gotten beat up the day before.
But like, you know, for you, what is itthat keeps you going every single day?
Like, I'm sure you've had thosetimes where you just, you know,
thought about throwing in the towel.
Like, how, how do you persevere, perseverethrough those, those, those challenges?

(54:19):
'cause I mean, you know, being abusiness owner, being an entrepreneur,
being a leader in a small company,I mean, it's, it is, it's like being
on a roller coaster and you gotyour ups and you got your downs.
So like, is there something you know,for you, like, do you have like, you
know, some outlet or some somethingthat like, kind of helps you to stay
strong, stay focused, and just keep, keepworking through those, those tough times?

devon (54:40):
There's a little bit of stupidity there, man.
It's like, um, yeah, I, Ithink being a business owner,
um, it's not for everybody.
You know, like, yeah.
And if it's not, you need to come to,to understand that about yourself.
That maybe this isn't whatI want to do, but it is.

(55:00):
If it is really what you wannado, you need to like sit with
that, embody that, and then knowthat nothing's gonna stop you.
Um, luckily I remember walkingthrough Home Depot at six in the
morning right when they open andI was walking down the aisle and I
really wasn't making a lot of money.
And I, I remember walking down theaisle and being like, you know what?

(55:22):
I would do this even ifI wasn't making money.
So if you're there, if you've gotthat, then you can stick it out.
But if you're like, you know,I, I wanna do this to get rich.
I don't know, man, you know, youlike, but, um, you, you gotta have a
couple days, um, to just get away too.

(55:44):
Um, there's a, there's a book, um, uh,it's the e os writer, I forget his name,
but it's, it's how to be a, a great boss.
One of the things he recommendsis he'll, he'll go away.
Um, I think it's either once amonth, it might even be once a
week that he gets away from workcompletely to just like think.
And, and same for me, if I get away fora, a day or so, like, man, the juices

(56:07):
just get flown and you're so much betterof a leader and an entrepreneur, um,
if you just have a little bit of time.
So I would say if you'regetting completely burned out,
you need to, you need to tellclients, Hey, not not coming in.
And I, I am, I'm not the, I haven'tbeen the greatest about this.
I mean, my, my parents passedaway, uh, at a young age, and

(56:29):
I went to work the next day.
That was my, my coping mechanism was work.
I wouldn't recommend that.
I would say like, you know,when you have those things.
You know, now I, now I'm there whereI'm like, I need, I need a day.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a day off.
I'm gonna do some thinking,some soul searching.
What do I need to do?
And, but that's what I wouldrecommend is try to get in that

(56:51):
habit as, as soon as possible.

Eric (56:53):
Yeah.
I think that's, that's great advice.
I know a lot of people feel like, youknow, they, they get into this hole
and it just, like, they, they keepdigging themselves deeper though.
Instead of taking a second, youknow, take a step back, take a break,
you know, go on, you know, a littlemini, you know, weakened or whatever.
Like, you, you gotta, like, you, you, youknow, so many people just burn themselves

(57:13):
out by continuing to do the same thingover and over, and not being able to
see the forest from the trees, you know?
And, and I, and I think like, you know,it's, yeah, it's, it's absolutely,
it's, it's so important that you'repassionate about what you're doing.
Like, you gotta also make sure thatyou're, you know, you're, you're
operating at the right level.
Your mind's right, yourmindset is, is focused.
And like, you know, when like everybody,you, you need a break from time to time.

(57:36):
You know?
And that's just how it is.
And, you know, I think, uh, you know,I think the other thing though that,
like, I would say that, you know, you'veclearly done, I mean, you went from
being a handyman to, you know, now doingcustom builds, like, you know, you gotta
realize that, like, you gotta surroundyourself with a great team of people.
You know, I think a lot of peoplestay on the tools way too long
and they, they keep trying to doeverything and wear every hat.

(57:58):
And like, I totally get it.
As entrepreneurs, you know, we, we,we, we know we can do it, right.
We wanna do it and we, we,we just struggle to delegate
and to, to trust others.
But like, the sooner you can build a teamof rock stars around you who are better
at you at everything, then like, it,it's gonna help you so much be able to
like, keep growing and keep, you know,pushing through those, those hard times.

(58:20):
Now you got support,you got a team around.
Yeah.

devon (58:22):
Every new hire should be a replacement for you at that position.
So every so meaning like you now hirea, a framer, you're no longer the
framer, you're now the supervisor orwhatever, then you hire a supervisor
and now you're no longer that you're,and eventually you get to CEO and
then eventually you hire a CEO.
And that's how you build acompany at that's sellable.

(58:43):
And you know, but it it, it takes thatsome, there's somebody out there, I
don't care what you say, I, I get it.
You're good, you're great.
Whatever.
There's somebody out therethat can do it better.
So swallow your pride and go findthem, hire them, get, get off of that.
And then another thing is, I wouldsay, don't be such a yes man.

(59:04):
I was that way and I got completelyburned out saying yes to every, every job.
Being in demand tell, having people wait.
You know that you can charge morewhen you do stuff like that, you
know, people are okay with waiting.
That's why we schedule reservationsfor restaurants that we really
want to eat at way out in advance.
We, we, we reserve flights.

(59:25):
You know, people are used to thisfor things they really want, so
be something they really want.

Eric (59:30):
Absolutely.
Look, Devin, this has, uh,been been really great advice.
You know, I really appreciate youtaking the time to just share a
little bit of, uh, you know, how, howyou've gotten into this, how you've
built your team, your business.
You know, it sounds like you reallyare focused on all the right things.
You know, again, your, yourwork looks outstanding.
So, you know, kudos to youfor, for, for, you know, 15, 16
years that you've been at it.

(59:50):
You know, obviously doing, doing agreat job, building a great team.
You know, keep up the good work, man.
I, I, I really appreciate, you know, youbeing a great role model as well, and,
you know, helping other people around you.
Just keep, keep improving,keep growing, keep leveling up.
You know, that's, uh, that's,that's, that's all you can ask for.
And, you know, you're doing,doing a really good job.
So I appreciate you coming on and sharinghow you, how you built this company.

devon (01:00:11):
Thanks Eric.
Uh, this was a lot of fun.

Eric (01:00:13):
Awesome.
Have a good one.
You too.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please

(01:00:35):
contact [e-mail].
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.