Growth Through Adversity | Chris Moore with Senior Remodeling Experts

Meet Chris Moore, owner of Senior Remodeling Experts located in Salem, Virginia. Chris shares his journey from an unexpected start in construction to building a business focused on helping seniors and veterans live safely and independently in their homes. He opens up about the pivotal moments that shaped his career, including the loss of his wife, the lessons learned through hardship, and his mission to create a lasting impact through aging-in-place remodeling. Chris discusses the importance of building strong systems, finding purpose through service, and how he’s turning his passion into a broader movement to help more people across the country.

 

 

In this episode, you will learn:

• How to build a business with a deeper mission
• Why systematizing your operations is essential for growth
• How to navigate personal tragedy while leading a business
• What it takes to work with VA home modification grants
• The mindset shifts needed to transition from craftsman to business owner

 

Learn more about Senior Remodeling Experts here: https://seniorremodelingexperts.com/ 

 

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[instrumental music] Welcome to the podcast, wherewe take a deep dive into the stories behind

(00:03):
construction business leaders. We will share howthey got started, how they found
success, and the lessons learned along the way.I'm your host, Erik Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories. [instrumental music]
Welcome back, everybody. Today, I am here withChris Moore, who is the owner of
Senior Remodeling Experts. They are located inSalem, Virginia.

(00:28):
Really excited to have you on this... on, on theshow here, Chris. Welcome to Builder Stories.
Awesome, Erik. Glad to be here.
Yeah. So why don't you, uh, give us, give us alittle bit of your background.
I mean, you know, y- you've been with us forseveral years now.
I, I think you might have started with, uh,another company name.
Kind of said you're maybe going through somerebranding, stuff like that.
But, you know, before we get into all that, Imean, just how'd you get into construction?

(00:49):
You know, what, what led you to start your, yourbusiness?
Okay. So, um, way back in 1986,
I am sitting in the employment office in PalmSprings, California,
and, uh, I needed a few dollars in my pocket and acall came in
for a helper.

(01:09):
And, um, the contractor was a guy by the name ofCarl Hasik, and he
was Czechoslovakian. He was classically trained asa, as a
pattern maker and a master builder,
and he was, uh, building his last addition,
and then he was gonna go off and build a boat andbecome a

(01:31):
commercial fisherman in, in Alaska. That was his,uh...
that was gonna be his retirement. And, um, in thefour months that I worked for
Carl, I, I just learned more about constructionthan,
um,
you know,
most people learn a lifetime. It was a, it was agreat foundation. It was...
there was one day, we had a... we had this, uh,this glulam beam

(01:55):
delivered. It was like 6 inches wide and
22 inches tall and 25 feet long, and they
delivered it and set it on the garage floor.
And, you know, there was just the two of us, andthe garage walls were 10 feet tall.
And I'm, I'm looking at that beam, and, and

(02:15):
how in the world are we gonna get this beam on topof that wall?
And he didn't seem concerned about it.
And there were a bunch of, like, Muscle Beach guysthat kept calling on the
young lady that lived next door, and one day whenseveral of them were, were
walking by, he just casually said, "I bet you guyscan't lift this

(02:37):
beam and set it on top of that wall."
They said, "Oh yeah, we can." And, uh, so theycame over and set it up there, and he said, "Huh.
Man, I was, I was wrong."
And I thought, "Wow."
[laughs]
So, um, anyway, then after that, I went into the,um, like the
tracks in Southern California where...
You know, it was, it was outdoor production, uh,assembly line where everybody got paid

(03:01):
by the foot. Everything was, was... You know, youdid one thing and, and you did it
quickly and...
So then, uh, I came back to Virginia where I grewup
and, um, you know, kind of did some other thingsfor, for a while, and worked
at, um,
a, a component manufacturer that made, uh, rooftrusses and floor

(03:24):
trusses and wall panels for
seven years and, and... as a salesman.
And during that time, I, um, I said, "You knowwhat?
I'm a better carpenter than I am a salesman.
I'm, I think I'm gonna get out of the salesracket."
And, uh, funny thing, after I started my business,I'm like, "I'm spending more time doing sales now than
when I was [laughs] a full-time salesman."

(03:44):
[laughs]
Um, but yeah. I started the company, uh, SolidRock Enterprises, based on
the, you know, the scripture that says, "The wiseman built his house on the solid rock,
and when the storms came, it, it stood up and, anddidn't blow away." Um,
and we built a... Uh, one of my first projects wasa,

(04:06):
uh, custom house at Smith Mountain Lake,
and got done with that house and sat down andlooked at my numbers and
discovered, to my dismay, that I had made a grandtotal of $6 an hour building that
house.
Wow.
And, um, so I was like, "Well, that, that's, hmm,that's not gonna work."
And so, uh, one of my, one of my good customers atthe, at the truss

(04:30):
company called me up and said, "Do you, you wanna,you wanna frame a house for me?"
And so this was, uh, this was 2001 when I startedthe business, and so,
um, I framed a house for him. And then reallythrough...
from '01 through '08, we were pretty much a
framing company. There was a lot of, you know, bigcut-up houses, uh, going

(04:54):
up, and, uh, curved staircases and round turrets,and,
um,
one house had eight different pitches on the roof.It was a stick-built roof.
And we had, you know, curved eaves. We had to cutthe curves out of two-by-twelves and
gusset them on the rafters, and...
And that was a lot of fun, but then one day, aboutlong

(05:16):
2008, all of that came to a screeching halt.
And so I was,
um, you know, trying to find a new niche, tryingto find, w- you know, a way to feed my
family, and about that time, uh, my mom and dad,they'd been
living in a, uh, age-restricted community inArizona for f- probably 15

(05:38):
years, and my mom had a stroke, and they movedback to Virginia to
be close to family. And, and, um,
like the day after they got here, my mom fell andbroke her pelvis, and she
was in the hospital, and then she was in rehab.
And during that time, uh, my dad found a house,bought a house, and so she was coming home

(05:58):
from rehab in a wheelchair, and there were
like five or six steps to get into the front doorof the house, and five or six steps
to get up to the deck in the back.So, I built myvery first wheelchair
ramp, and, um, put in some grab bars and some
swing clear hinges and a stair lift and some otherthings for my mom.

(06:21):
And
that kinda got the wheels turning that
I bet there's a lot of older people that arestruggling in, in their
homes.
And so that, that started my journey
into, uh, aging in place, and, um,
educated myself, uh, earned the, the CAPS,Certified Aging in Place Specialist

(06:44):
designation through NAHB and
just started, you know, working on, um, you know,what that looked like.
And discovered very quickly, there's a lot ofpeople that need these changes but don't want to
talk about it. They don't wanna admit it. Theresistance is, is quite, quite large.
So I found that, you know, family dynamics and,and kinda talking to people about how,

(07:09):
you know, making some modifications to your homesis actually a, a great planning tool, and,
um, started doing, uh, grant work for disabledveterans which we, we do
a lot of.
And, um,
so that's when the, the, the, the initials SREwhich
stood for Senior Remodel, or Solid RockEnterprises, could also stand for

(07:33):
Senior Remodeling Experts. And so we, we tried tobe both for a
while. I mean, I, I've, I've always had the, the,you know, I'll do it kind of
mentality in construction and over the years, I'vetaken on a lot of projects that
nobody else wanted to touch. And some of them Ifound out, oh, that's
why nobody else [laughs] wanted to touch thisproject.

(07:55):
But always enjoy the challenge, um, but, you know,we're doing more and more,
uh, aging in place kinda work, and so
we've, uh, just recently kind of made the switchto, you know, Senior Remodeling Experts.
And so,
you know, things were going along and, um,

(08:16):
2021 I had my,
uh, first, first million dollar revenue year.
Uh, we ended that year with, uh, 22% net margin
and, um, you know, things were, were really goingwell.
And then in December of '21,

(08:39):
um,
my wife, uh, Barbara of 33 years, um, she,
she came down with
what we thought was pneumonia.
And it was right in the middle of COVID and, youknow, we didn't wanna go to the hospital so we did
telehealth and,
you know, antibiotic and a steroid and thenanother antibiotic and another steroid and it

(09:02):
wasn't getting any better and so we finally went
to the hospital. And when they did a
chest x-ray, they found,
um,
she had a large
tumor in her lung.
And, uh, it was stage four lung cancer, and it hadspread to her bones
and

(09:23):
so, uh, everything came to a screeching halt.
Uh, I told my team, you know, "Do what you can.
Do the best you can." And, um, really didn't go tothe office
maybe six times in eight months, and,
um,
Barbara ended up passing away the last day of Julyof ’22.

(09:45):
And
so,
for the rest of '22, I was, you know, was kindajust in a
fog.
And, um,
when, when I first met you, Eric, was at the,
uh, at the very first Job Trade Connect,
which was, uh, the January, um, you know, rightafter that.

(10:09):
And so
I was, um,
I was really still in shock at that point.
And, um, just have, have kind of from, from there,picked up the
pieces and,
um,
developing a,
a company where there are systems and people incharge of different

(10:31):
things, because up until that point, I had...
Everything was in my head,
you know? I was at the job site every day.
I had people helping me, but I was making all thedecisions.
Most of them, you know, on the fly as, as theycame up.
And, um,
you know, that's a lot easier to do in framingthan it is in, you know, when you're doing,

(10:54):
you know, new builds or, or full-serviceremodeling where, you know, you have to have things
ordered and you have to have things decided, youknow, way ahead of when,
when you're going to be installing them.
And
so,
um,
then, then 20... Uh, last year, and I kind

(11:18):
of, I kind of just,
um,
kinda lost focus for a while.
And, you know, I felt like things were,
um,
were going okay,
and then it took a couple of years to really, youknow, catch up with me, and then last year, we,
um,

(11:38):
at the end of the year, and looked at the books,and we had, we, we lost
$100,000 last year in the business, and that wasreally,
really, really a wake-up call. And so we are, um,just finished our second
profitable quarter in a row, so we're getting,get, you know, getting things back on course,
um, and, um,

(12:01):
uh, joined, uh, the Association of ProfessionalBuilders back in December
and working with them on,
um,
on, on some things and on, uh, pricing and on the,uh, work in progress accounting
and,
um-Incorporating, you know, trying to do a betterjob, you know,
utilizing JobTread. We came to JobTread,

(12:24):
um...
We had been with BuilderTrend, and before that, wewere with CoConstruct.
We did CoConstruct, and we were like, "You know,there are some things not working here,"
and then so we switched to BuilderTrend,
and we were still kind of feeling like, "You know,there's some things not working."
And then BuilderTrend tripled our price,

(12:45):
um, and that was...
You know, JobTread was pretty new at that point,but we had heard, you know, we had heard about it,
and, uh, called, called Hector at, like, 7:30
in the evening,
and he got us, you know, signed up with JobTread,like, on the

(13:05):
spot.
[laughs]
And, um,
and then I came to JobTread Connect, and Anna dida
workshop on
process mapping,
and I, I, I remember she said, "We can't fix yourcompany.
If you expect JobTread or any other software

(13:28):
to, to fix
all the chaos that's going on in your company,it's, it's not gonna happen." And I
realized that's what, what I had been expecting.You know, "I'll, I'll buy this software.
Oh, well, that's not solving my problem, so I'llbuy another software, and that's not solving..." And, you
know, what she said was, "If you can figure outwhat your process needs to be, what it

(13:49):
is, what the steps are that,
that, y- you know, you're going to consistently do
in your operations,
then we can, we can streamline that process foryou and make
it easier."
But that, that
going through that

(14:09):
process mapping and figuring out, you know, whatis, what is our process?
You know, what do, what do we do? What's step one,step two, step three?
Um, and, you know, so that's what I've been
working on,
and, you know, I feel like we've made a lot ofprogress.
Still got a long way to go,
um,
but, you know, having, having that consistency

(14:33):
and then also figuring out just, you know, "Heythese are the, these are the jobs we're good at," instead
of just taking
everything that comes down the pike.
Sure.
Man, Chris, that's, uh, that's, that's one hell ofa story there.
I, uh, you know, I, I, I, I remember when we firstmet at, at, at JobTread Connect, and, you
know, I, I, I think you had maybe kind of alludedto that you had lost your wife, but, uh, you know, I

(14:58):
certainly didn't know the full backstory, and, uh,you know, just kinda hearing everything that you've,
you've overcome, I mean, it's, it's, uh...
Man, I, I, I feel for you. I'm so sorry to hear,you know, about that.
About, about the, the cancer and, and, and losingyour wife.
I could only imagine what that's like, and, youknow, but seeing you and, and how you've continued to just
keep going, and, you know, you've, you've keptbuilding.

(15:19):
I mean, I, you know, I see a lot of people thatthat's kinda the thing that just, it ends it for them, and, you
know, they end up
kinda losing the business and losing a, a wholelot more, and, you know, it's, uh...
Yeah, just, you know.
Well, I give a lot of, a lot of credit, you know,to my team, um,
my... Yeah, my son, Joey, and, um, his wife,Sarah.

(15:40):
Sarah's my office manager, and, you know, they,they really, um,
you know, pull things together and kinda kept theship afloat.
And, you know, really in, especially in the,
um,
like the veterans work, I mean, the, the, the, thedisabled veterans that we work
with, I mean, we have a lot of Vietnam vets thatare

(16:04):
dealing with the aftermath of Agent Orange andsome of the, you know, the stuff they were
exposed to. And a lot of those things are just
coming to light now in terms of, of the effectsthat it's had on them.
Yeah.
And so, you know, we,
we lose clients. You know, we've, we've hadseveral that,

(16:26):
um, you know, have died in the middle of our
project. We've had
many more that, you know, didn't make it too longafterwards, and
my,
my, um...
The way I deal with the, the widows is completelydifferent than
it was before

(16:48):
I went through, you know, my, my own loss.
Sure.
And
what I have learned at a, coming through that isthat,
you know, it's, it's in the suffering that yougrow.
I mean, it's in the
dry and the barren places that, you know, you...
Your character is molded and your,

(17:09):
uh, resilience is developed, and...
You know, I had said for years,
um, and didn't... Had no idea at the time reallywhat I was saying, but,
you know, when there's money in the bank andeverybody's healthy and the sun's shining,
it's pleasant,
but we're not growing,
you know? We grow, you know, as, as businessowners, we grow when our back's against the

(17:34):
wall. As people, we, we grow when, when, you know,we have a decision make,
to make. Do we do the right thing here or
do we compromise? You know, do we bite the bulletand, and
take care of, you know, and, and follow through onwhat we promised we were gonna do even,
you know, when it's painful

(17:55):
or, you know, do we not? And that,
that's how,
you know, we, we get molded and we become
the kind of people that,
you know, we're, we, we, uh, can sleep well atnight.
[laughs]
You know?
Um...
Yeah.
And

(18:16):
so it's,
um...You
know,
at the time I would not have, you know, said, "Oh,yeah, this is, this is to, you know, help me with my
character."
But, you know, at the end of the day,
um,
it's,
it's made me a better person.

(18:37):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, and I tellpeople all the time, I mean, it's, you know, just the life of
being an entrepreneur, small business owner, youknow, it's, it's like being on a roller coaster.
You know, you, you got the ups and you got thedowns.
And, you know, it's, it's the times that, youknow, you're...
you feel like you're at the rock bottom, you know,you don't know what to do.
You know, is it ever gonna come back? Are we evergonna be able to get through this?

(18:58):
Like, you know, those are the moments that, youknow, that- that they're either gonna make you or they're
gonna break you. And when you can just, you know,keep, keep going, keep grinding through it,
keep looking for, for ways to adapt, overcome, youknow, eventually, you know, when you start pulling it
back up, you know, it's like i- it's, it's, it'sthose, those hardest times.
Those are the times that, you know, th- that theymake, you know, those ups and those, those successes,

(19:20):
those triumphs. I mean, they make them feel thatmuch better, and you have that much more appreciation
because like you know what you came through, youknow? It's, it's...
So many people kind of just look at, look atentrepreneurs and, and, and business owners and think, "Man,
like, you know, they're just on the top of theworld and it's been so easy." And, you know, the- they, they got
everything. They got all the money, they got allthe team, they, you know, they, they...
You know, just, it, it, it, it often kind of comesacross as, you know, so much different than what it really

(19:45):
is, and it's those hard times, you know, that's,that's when you build the character.
That's when, you know, yeah, y- you gotta,
you know, dig deep to figure out, you know, h- howare we gonna make it through here?
You know, it's, it's, it's easy for everybody to,to build a business and, and to do, you know, great and
win when it's, you know, we got a bull market and,you know, times are, times are good and everyone's, you
know, got money and spending on projects andthings.

(20:06):
But man, it's, it's those bear markets, it's thosetough times, it's the down, the down markets when that's
like what really, you know, is, is the test of a,of a, of a true business and a true business owner
and, and leader. And, and, and, you know, I, Ithink, you know, as we're seeing here, I mean, it's the same,
you know, whether it's in your personal or yourbusiness life, I mean, those, you know, that, that...
We are gonna have really, really hard times inlife, and it's, it's how do you persevere?

(20:28):
It's how do you overcome and, you know, figure outhow to, how to get up every day and keep, keep working
through it? And, you know, it sounds like youwere, you were blessed with, with a great team of, of people
around you who, you know, you could trust and, youknow, they, they, they kept it, kept the
ship afloat, as you said.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like the old saying, "After40 years of hard work, he became an overnight
success."
[laughs] Exactly.

(20:51):
Exactly.
So...
I mean, that's, you know, it's such a neat storythough, like hearing how, you know, you, you started off,
you know, kind of doing various, you know,different roles.
I mean, even, you know, sales and, you know, justkind of working under someone else and, and sort of that,
that led you to, to realize that, you know, youreally liked the, you know, the, the hands-on, the
carpentry. You started doing the framing for awhile.
Um, but then, you know, again, just through that,through that opportunity, you know, or, or, or really

(21:15):
kind of through a need, you know, for, for yourown mom, you know, being able to, to, to learn that
you can really make a huge impact on the peoplewho, you know, need the most help, you know,
physically. You know, being able to, to help, youknow, with those, those, those people that are aging in
place. I mean, what a, what an incredibletransition for you to, to go and now build this,
this business that, that, that has so much more,you know, purpose and, and, and

(21:40):
probably passion for it. And I mean, I, you know,I'm sure you loved framing and, and carpentry, but like, I
mean, now like you've got that much more meaninginvested in what you're doing in every single
project. I mean, that's, that, that's gotta belike really rewarding for, for you.
It's in- it's incredibly rewarding. I mean, thedifference we make, you know, in people's lives...
I mean, there's people that,

(22:00):
you know, haven't had a shower in two years. Youknow, they can't get in... they can't get in the tub.
And, you know, we did a, we did a whole houseremodel, um, last year for a
couple. They were... They're in their 70s. Um,they've lived in the house for 50 years.
They love the neighborhood. Their, um, theirwasher and dryer was in the
basement. Their basement stairs were really morelike a ladder.

(22:23):
I mean, they were so steep and their railingconsisted of a, a rope, literally, on
the, you know, on the side of the, of the stairs.
And so, we, we built an addition on the back.
We put a, a laundry center, uh, on the main floor.
We redid the whole entire, uh, house.
We put in, uh, an accessible bathroom. We redidtheir kitchen.

(22:45):
Um, and,
you know, it just enabled them to, you know,continue to live in the house that
they,
y- you know, they love so much and, and was, wasspecial to them.
Yeah.
And, um, so... I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it'svery, very
rewarding.
And, um, I also now teach the certification class.

(23:09):
Um, that's a three-day class. I do that onlineseveral times a year.
Um, as I, uh... As Joey, you know, transitionsinto more running the
day-to-day operations, I, I hope to do more, youknow, teaching and speaking and, and
writing. And, and just, just to be able to share,
you know, the knowledge and the, and the wisdomand the understanding that I've been able to- to-

(23:32):
Yeah, that's awesome
... you know, pick up over the years.
So, so what does your... What, what does your fullteam look like today?
Um, we have... There's six of us. Um, Joey's doingmost of the sales.
Uh, Sarah's the office manager, does all thebookkeeping, um, answers the
phone. Uh,
helps with... I mean, she's the, she's theJobTred, um,

(23:55):
person on, [laughs] you know, on our team.
I, I think everybody on my team knows how to useJobTred better than I do.
I'm, I'm not, you know, proud to say that. But,you know, um...
I mean, there's so much there, and I see a lot ofthe, a lot of the new features, the, you know, the takeoff
and the plans and, and all that. I really need to,to carve out some time to,

(24:15):
to familiarize myself with,
um, with those things. Um,
but, um... And then I've got, um, got a projectmanager and I've got,
um, I've got two carpenters and probably looking
to-... um,
you know, add- add some more people in the fieldsoon, because we've got

(24:37):
[exhales sharply]
probably four projects getting ready to start allat the same time.
Oh, wow.
And, uh, we're working with, um,
with a marketing company that, uh...
Contractor Scale, who's out of New Zealand, andthey're- they're a partner with, um,
uh, APB and,

(24:58):
um,
probably gonna get- get, uh,
flooded with- with leads there that we need to- towork on.
And- and, uh, so,
um...
So what did it, what did it take for you...
You know, again, kinda earlier, you know, manyyears ago, it was kind of you wearing all the hats, having to
do the sales and the work. What did it take foryou to get to the point where, you know, you were

(25:22):
able to bring on, you know, was- was it Joey?
Was that the first person that you brought on, ordid you bring on a project manager?
Like, how did you, you know, take yourself out ofthat, you know, wearing all the hats, you
know, to- to start delegating and trusting others?
It was tough. I mean, it's still tough for me, youknow, because my natural
inclination is to just, you know, do it myself.

(25:42):
Yep.
And, uh, you know, my- my youngest son, you know,would- would always say, you know, "Here's- here's what
you do, Dad." I'm like, "You... Okay, well, I wantyou to take care of this project, and here's- here's how
you-" you know. "Oh, never mind, I'll just do itmyself." And- and, you know, that was my- that's
my natural tendency. And in fact when, you know,uh, in- in
conversations with Joey, and he's like, "Well, Idon't have your knowledge, I don't have your, you know,

(26:05):
experience." And- and I said, "Joey, you- you'vegotta look at that as a blessing," because,
um, my ability to do the work myself probably overthe
years has been more of a hindrance than a help.
Because as long as I'm doing everything myself,I'm never g- I'm
never gonna grow. And I've found building a teamto be much harder than building a house.

(26:29):
It's just not... doesn't come naturally for me.
Uh, my dad used to tell me, he said, "It soundslike you're too big to be little and too little to be big."
Um, you know, it's like way past what you can doyourself, but not
quite to the point where,
you know, you've got enough work to
justify the salary of,

(26:51):
you know, of other- of other people to- to bringon the team.
And, you know, kind of just, like, jumping intothe-
into the marketing with both feet when it seemsscary, like, "Well,
okay, well, if I do that, what happens if I, youknow,
you know, if I get 20 phone calls a day, and I, I,you know, I..." And- and that

(27:14):
balance of
bringing in more work while bringing in morecapacity
is I- I mean, both of those have to rise atapproximately the same level, or,
you know, you get yourself in a mess. I mean,having, um, you know, having
more leads come in than you can respond to in atimely manner, and people get mad

(27:36):
at you because you're not- you're not calling 'emback, and you're, you know, you're putting all this money
into marketing, but you're not able to-
to service those- those prospects
is, you know... I mean, that's- that's been a- a-a fear.
And so
I'm kind of at the point now where it's like,

(27:56):
you know, I gotta fish or cut bait. You know?
I- I- I've got to,
um... I'm at the point where the- the business hasto grow.
You know, one of the reasons that we wereunprofitable last year is because,
you know, the level of overhead I have.
You know, I've got six people I'm- I'm paying, andreally only two of
them are,

(28:18):
like,
billable hours.
Sure.
Right? And so
I've- I'm heavy on the overhead, and so the onlyway that I see to get
pe- you know, is- is to increase the revenue andincrease the...
so that the- the- the percentage of that- of thatpayroll is- is a smaller
percentage of- of revenue. So that's like, okay,well, I'm just gonna,

(28:40):
you know, bite the bullet and jump in, and[laughs] you know, let the chips fall where they
may.
Um,
and
because, you know, I've been trying to do thesesystems for,
you know, a couple of years now, and we've madesome progress.
But
if you're-

(29:01):
if you're putting out fires all the time,
you know, you're- you're
out
doing, you know, doing the things that really youcould have somebody else do-
Sure.
You know, and- and taking the time to focus on,you know, the things that I'm
best suited for.
Yeah.
And, you know, we're trying to, uh...
We've- we've got somebody, a- a- a virtualassistant doing our- our social media,

(29:26):
which we've always been just... It's- it's...
I mean, we've had it for years, but it's alwaysbeen like, "Well, if anybody gets
a- a minute to put a post up on Facebook, thenyeah, go ahead and do that."
Yeah.
And, you know, and I'm not, you know, personallyon social media at all, so it's not...
you know. Um, but we're- we're working on that.

(29:47):
Um, I'm doing- I'm doing instructional, uh,YouTubes right- right here in
this chair in my library, um, trying to get acouple those a week up.
Just- just talking about, uh, aging in place and,
you know, what it entails and what people, youknow, can think about.
And, um, uh, starting, I'm starting a new seriescalled Aging in Place is

(30:09):
a Team Sport, where we talk about, okay, we gottahave the housing, but you also gotta have healthcare, and
you gotta have, you know, finances, and you gottahave transportation, and you gotta have all these other
pieces to
successfully, um, age in place. And so,
um, I'm- I'm really paying attention to how you'redoing this builder
stories, because I'd like to kind of have, youknow, similar kind of format of talking to people about,

(30:33):
"Okay, well, what's your, you know, what's yourpart in the puzzle?"
Sure.
And, um, you know, I've- I've been in preparationfor this today. I've listened to......
probably half a dozen, you know, in the last week.
And it's, it's really helpful,
you know, because,
you know, you hear a lot of the same
struggles,
right? You hear different people's stories.

(30:54):
And, and, you know, a lot of it is, you know, we,we start out and, and then
we're like, we're just, we're just doing it.
We're just getting up every day and, and, youknow,
getting down there and building something.
And then
realize, oh, there's, you know, there's a lot moreto it,
um, than that.

(31:14):
Yeah.
I've got a friend, he's retired now, but he was abuilder and he, and he was a, a, a CPA
before he was a builder. And I learned a lot fromhim, because he approached it
from the numbers first
and then the craft.
Whereas most of us
are, you know, were tradespeople first

(31:36):
before we became builders. And,
um, I read something somewhere, it said mostcontractors are not
entrepreneurs, were tradespeople who had anentrepreneurial seizure.
[laughs] And, you know, and it's like we gottalearn the hard way because
we think, "Well, you know, I know how to buildsomething.
I'm a carpenter," or, "I'm a plumber," or, "I'm a,you know, an electrician," or what have you.

(31:59):
And, and, you know, so I'm...
I'll just open, you know, open the doors and, andrun a business.
Yeah.
And, you know, like for me,
for years it was like, I wasn't really running abusiness, I just, I just had a job.
And it was a job that, you know, I had to

(32:19):
get... Wasn't going to eight hours a day, I wasgoing to 12 or 14 hours a day.
Sure.
And,
you know,
then I had to, you know, still do the estimatesand, uh,
bookkeeping, and, uh, you know. So...
So, so how, where were, you know, where were your,your leads coming from before?
I mean, was it just, just referrals and word ofmouth?

(32:41):
Most of what we've done has been, has beenreferrals and, and word of mouth.
I mean, the VA, uh, the veteran work, um, youknow, we,
we often get, um,
from, you know, from the VA. They're not allowedto recommend anybody, but there's
very few contractors that really want to gothrough the red tape and the

(33:02):
paperwork and the, you know, the bureaucratic,
um,
you know, things you have to go through to, to geta, uh, get a VA
contract. Um-
Can, can you, can you maybe explain that?
'Cause I'm, you know, I'm, I'm curious, I'm sure alot of others are, they're like, "What, what is that full
process look like to, to actually be able to getthat contract and do that?"

(33:23):
So we have th- w- there are, there are three, um,grants that we
participate with that, uh, for veterans.
The, the largest one is the SAH, the SpeciallyAdapted Housing grant,
and that is available to,
um, service-connected disabled veterans that,

(33:44):
um, have a,
uh, a, a disability that fits within theparameters of, of the
grant. So, I mean, it has to be a prettysignificant, um, you know, lost
both legs, lost, you know, one arm and one leg. Imean, that kind of thing, or the use of...
We did a new home last year for a double amputeevet that wa- that was all, all

(34:06):
wheelchair accessible, and, and motorized cabinetsthat, that come down to countertop level and,
and that kind of thing. Um, but there is a, thereis a preemption for
veterans who have, uh, dates of service within theVietnam era,
boots on the ground in Vietnam. So,
um, and, and those are a lot of the ones thatwere...

(34:26):
Are, are showing up with major health problemsnow.
But that, but that grant is,
um, currently $121,000 and, um,
goes, uh, it's, it's based on the inflation, soit, it adjusts every year.
But the requirements, um,
you know, for that grant, you have to meet theminimum property requirements that they have, you

(34:49):
know, for the house. And,
um,
you know, five-foot
turning radius and curbable shower and, you know,direct egress from the bedroom
and, and, you know, pretty significant, um,
list of, of requirements.
And
pretty significant, um,

(35:10):
contract requirements in terms of, of what has tobe spelled out in your contract in
order, in order to be accepted.
So, so h- are these veterans have... Are they theones that have already applied and then, you
know, once they get awarded the grant-
Right, they're go-
... they're bringing you in?
Right. They have to do an application process andthere's pa- the part that they have to fill out, they
have to, you know, verify their, their propertyownership and their mortgage and, and, you

(35:35):
know, some other things like that. And they haveto first, first qualify in terms
of, you know, their level of disability and, andthe medical necessity of,
of the work.
Um, and then,
you know, they, they will usually contact us andsay,
you know, "We're, um, we're looking at this grantand would you come out and, and take a look and,

(35:57):
and see what you can do for us?"
So the, the, the VA, they, they, you said theydon't, they can't recommend-
They cannot.
But do they have a list of approved contractors?
They, they do. You have to get on their list.
You know, you have to go through-
Yeah
... the application process to be, to be on thelist.
You have to,
um... There's a, there's a national database youhave to go onto and update and, and
fill out. And so the- there's a lot of, you know,

(36:20):
you know, paperwork kind of stuff to do.
I'm, I'm curious, do, do you know how many in yourarea are on that list?
They, they never update the list. There's peoplethat have been out of business for 20 years
that are still on the list.
Okay.
Um, but there's really,
there's really only, you know, a couple that

(36:41):
are actively
doing, doing the work. I mean, a l- a lot of theprojects we've gotten have been
where, um-You know, the veteran's talking to acontractor
who's not familiar with the process and, you know,they're all excited about doing the job.
And then they discover,
you know, the, the, the red tape requirements.

(37:02):
And all of a sudden, they just quit returningtheir phone calls.
Hm.
And, you know, they'll, they'll call the, they'llcall the VA.
And the VA will say, "Well, you know, we can'trecommend anybody, but, you know, this guy has done a bunch
of projects for us."
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then there's two smaller grants.
The, um, the HISAA, which is Home ImprovementStructural Alteration.

(37:22):
That is administered through the VA hospital.
And, um, we do a lot of those. Like when we'redoing a smaller project, we're taking out a tub,
putting in a shower,
um, you know, or something of that nature.
And then there's a state grant,
um,
which is $8,000, and that is, um,
similar to HISAA grant. So... And there are t-there are cases where we will incorporate all three of

(37:47):
them into the same project,
and that gets
complicated because they each have their owntimelines and their own requirements.
And, uh, there was one time we were building anaddition, and we built the ramp to the
addition before we put up the addition, simplybecause the grant that was paying for the
ramp was about to expire. And so, we had to-
Hm

(38:07):
... hurry up and get that done.
S- so, I mean, o- obviously with the smallergrants, you know, the, the, the veterans are, you know, also
coming out of pocket. I mean, do you, do you seewith the, with those larger ones, I mean, are they, are they
able to kind of keep their project within that$121,000 scope?
Or are they often also, you know, coming out ofpocket for, you know, for any, any additional

(38:28):
work?
We've done, we've done both.
Um, you know, it ju- it just depends on, on theneeds and it depends on the, the
situation. A lot of times, they'll tell us rightup front that, you know, "We don't, we don't have any
additional funds to put in this project, and so weneed to, um,
we need to keep the, the scope of work
limited so that we, you know,

(38:50):
it'll, it'll be paid for with the grant."
Sure.
So, it's kinda like, it's kinda like estimating inreverse-
[laughs]
... you know?
Yep.
Where, where you start with, you know, "We can'texceed this amount. How much, you know...
What, what can we get done?"
Yeah.
And how, how can we
get the most benefit for the amount of money thatwe're spending?

(39:11):
And that's, you know, that's true on a lot ofthese jobs.
Even, you know, private pay jobs, people are, um,you know, they're struggling in their home and
they're struggling getting, getting in and out ofthe bathroom or up and down the steps, or
what have you. But, you know, their financialsituation is such that,
you know, they, they really can't afford
what we would like to do for them.

(39:33):
Yeah.
And so, you know, what, what can we do that will
move the needle
for, you know, the, the amount of funding that wehave to apply?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So, what's it like from a kind of actual gettingpaid out from the grant?
I mean, is that... Are y- are you able to getsome, some funds up front?

(39:54):
Are you getting, like, you know, deposit and thenget kind of progress payments?
Are you just waiting till the very end? Are youhaving to cash flow this?
No. On the SAH projects, we cannot get a, adeposit.
So, you know, there's, there is that whole, um,you know,
in, in estimating and project development, which,you know, normally we

(40:15):
would, you know, we would have a dep- deposit.
On, on private pay jobs, we'd do a projectdevelopment agreement and give the people a range.
We say we think it's gonna be between, you know,this amount and that amount.
And then we get, we get a deposit up front to helpto, um,
offset our estimating and, and project developmentcosts.
But on the, um,

(40:36):
on the
SAH projects, we, we cannot get, get a deposit.
But we get, like, usually four or five draws.
So, um, you know, we're not, we're not cashflowing the whole project.
But
it, uh, it, it certainly is, uh... You ha- youhave to plan for that.
Yeah.
And, you know, we do, we do a, a mix of, of those.

(40:58):
And,
um, you know, the private pay projects wherewe're-
Sure.
Have you ever gotten, uh, gotten sideways on oneof these projects, where like you, you didn't end up
getting paid out the full amount?
No.
Okay.
But there was one, because... And they're doing,they're doing these now.
They, the compliance inspections, like each draw,you know, um,

(41:22):
they, we... Now we just send them pictures, and,you know, they, they approve
it. But for most the time we've been doing these,they would have a compliance inspector who would come
out. You know, okay, we've, we've completed the,the rough-ins and, you
know, they come out and look and take picturesand, and send it in and we get paid.
And this one particular job, I mean, it was at theend of the job.

(41:46):
And, you know, this, this was early on and wewere,
we were, uh, you know, in a, in a prettyprecarious cash flow situation, and so we really
needed that draw. And so, we called in thecompliance inspector
and, uh, they were on vacation.
And then they... So they had a backup complianceinspector,

(42:08):
and they were on vacation too.
And so, I'm, I'm freaking out. And so, I'm callingand they...
And they brought somebody in and got it done.
But it was, uh-
Yeah.
It was, it was pretty, pretty hairy there for...
S- so what, what portion of your, of your jobs,you know, kind of, or, or I guess of your,

(42:30):
your sales, is, is coming from these...
The, the VA versus, you know, just going directlyto,
to the homeowner?
It, it tends to vary. I mean, uh, w-
Sometimes they come in waves. But I would sayprobably,
maybe, maybe, a third. Somewhere between a thirdand a half is probably,
um,

(42:51):
you know, VA, VA work. And I would say probably
q-Two thirds to three quarters of our work is
accessibility related in one- in one way oranother.
Um...
Yeah. So when you think about your marketing andhow you're going to,
you know, really focus and, and target,

(43:11):
you know, the, you know, kind of y- 'cause it's,it's kind of two separate targets, I assume, right?
Like, I mean, a- are you targeting veteransspecifically and, you know, if, if they may
be eligible for a grant, like, are you providingeducation, you know, to them? I, I don't know if they...
Do they always know that they might have thesethree potential grants available?
Like-
They, they, they do not. And in fact, a lot oftimes we, you know, when we tell people

(43:34):
about it, they, they don't, they, they're notaware of it.
And so, um,
we have, um...
One of, one of my employees belongs to AMVETS, andso we're, we're trying to get, you know,
to, to go in and maybe do some presentations tosome of these veteran organizations
and, and, um...

(43:58):
Then... But, but our, our, our broader marketingis more
targeted just at, at the general population that,that might be, um,
you know, considering, planning ahead.
I mean, we really, we really try to push the ideaof,
think about these modifications before you needthem, you know?
Yeah.
Because people often, they don't want to thinkabout it, they don't want to talk about it.

(44:22):
And then, you know, there's a, there's a traumaticevent of some kind, whether it's a
fall or a stroke or...
And then all of a sudden, it becomes,
um,
it becomes a- an emergency. And so-
Yeah
... doing,
doing
home modifications or renovations

(44:42):
in a state of emergency,
um,
does not produce the best results.
Yeah.
I mean, doing anything in a state of emergencytypically does not produce...
Yeah.
Um...
Do, do you get a lot of those calls?
We do. We do. Um,
and so,
uh, you know, we gets calls like, "Your mom'scoming home from the hospital tomorrow

(45:04):
afternoon." [laughs]
And, you know, we-
So what, what do you, what do you do for that?
Well, you know, there are some, there are somethings that, um, you
know, we do, uh, I mean, there's the modularaluminum ramps that you can get, you know, in a
pretty quick hurry. And, and sometimes, there,there are,
you know, there's things that you can do. Itdepends on the situation. Um...

(45:26):
Yeah.
But, you know, we, we really try to,
to
encourage people to, to plan ahead. And-
Yeah
... it's almost exclusively people who have beencaregivers who get
that and are interested in planning ahead.
You know, if I get a call saying, you know,"We're, we're healthy, but we're, we're wanting to build

(45:47):
our forever home," or, "We're wanting to makesome, make sure our, our existing
home is, is well-suited for us for the rest of ourlives," it's
almost always somebody who has
cared for a parent or cared for, you know, someoneand-
Yeah
... realized, you know, what,
what that feels like on the other side when you'retrying to,

(46:08):
you know, help somebody get a bath when,
you know, the bathroom's not set up for it.
Yeah.
Man, well, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's awesomeknowing that there are people out there, like you, Chris,
that are, that are doing this work, and that theseare, you know, that, that are helping the people that, you
know, absolutely need it the most. You know, this,this isn't a luxury.
This is a necessity, and, and you're theredelivering for them.

(46:31):
Which is just, I mean, again, ve- very reassuring,you know, to, to know that there are
great people out there doing this, this, thiswork. I'm, I'm curious, what...
You know, where do you see yourself taking thebusiness?
What, what are the goals for, you know, for f- forthe business, for, for Senior Remodeling
Experts? Like, where do you wanna see it in thenext, you know, five, 10 years?

(46:52):
Well, you know, the, the, the, uh, the p- theprime directive, um, is
to, you know, get, get the systemization dialedin.
And, you know, get the standardization of, of kindof all of our
processes. That process mapping that, uh, youknow, Anna talked about at, at
that workshop, to where things are, are, you know,moving

(47:17):
a lot, a lot smoother.
Um, and then once that is done,
um,
you know, I'd kinda like to explore the, the ideaof franchising.
And, you know, making, making this available to,
um,
you know, to others. Because, you know, it's, it'sonly going to grow.
Our population is, is aging. Uh, there's 10,000baby boomers a

(47:41):
day turning 65. Um, the, the percentage of
people over 65 is set to exceed the, the number of
people under 18, uh, very soon. I'm not sureexactly about the year.
But, you know, as a society, we're, we're gettingolder.
And

(48:01):
most people don't want to, you know, move intosenior living.
And even if everybody was thrilled about the ideaof moving into senior living, there aren't
enough
facilities
for people to do so.
Yeah.
And so, the,
the, the silver tsunami, as it's been called, is,you know, going to be

(48:24):
crashing on our shores. And,
um, I- I've been saying for years, there's a,there's a tipping point coming.
Uh, up until now, the p- you know, those of us inthis industry, it's like, you
know, "Well, we've gotta convince people to planahead, and we've gotta tell people the story, and, and
kind of make the case for why, um, turning PeterPan

(48:46):
homes into forever homes is a good idea."
And
but when that tipping point comes, it's gonna be,
you know, "How in the world do we keep up withthis?"
Yeah.
And,
um,
so... I mean, the NAHB says that aging in placeremodeling is the fastest growing
segment of th- of the remodeling industry....

(49:07):
and so,
um, like I said, I teach the, I teach thecertification class.
I've got a class coming up, uh, next month in May,
and, uh, one in September. And, you know, I'd liketo get to the point where I'm doing those more
often, because I think that's a, a valuableresource for, for people who,
uh, remodelers, uh, in particular, andoccupational therapists, and a lot of the other people that

(49:29):
work with seniors in their homes to, um,
you know, to earn that certification and to, uh,become more familiar with-
Yeah
... you know, what the opportunities are in themarketplace.
Yeah. [laughs] I, I love the, the idea and the,and the thought of, you know, co- could you
franchise this? Because you're, you're already anatural, you know, teacher,

(49:50):
trainer, coach. Like, you could help so manyothers-
Mm-hmm
... by doing what you're already doing, but thenbeing able to get them set up, you
know, with the tools, the foundation, the, the,the systems, the processes.
I mean, you know, again, like, you could save themso many years of the lessons that you've
had to learn-
Right
... by, by getting [laughs] them those sameprocesses, those same, you know, th- that education

(50:13):
that has taken you a long time to, to be able toaccumulate and, and, and the experience.
Like, I mean, it... I, I
totally agree with you. It sounds like the marketis ripe, you know, there's tons of demand
and, and, and, you know, you're, you're in a greatposition to, to not only, you know, help other,
you know, builders and entrepreneurs to be able toset themselves up to do this, but, you know, again, now

(50:33):
you've, you've exponentially multiplied the impactthat you can have on
this aging community.
And so, you know, again, I'm, I'm, I'm [laughs]all about, you know, when you find your passion, you know,
you, you find that mission and, and, and you'vegot that vision there, you know, I mean, it...
Sky's the limit. I, you know, let, let me know howwe can help.
You know, I would love to, to help be a resourceor, you know, help you in any way possible to, to make this

(50:56):
vision of yours become a reality because, I mean,I think you've done, you know, all of the things that you
need to do
to be able to, to, to make that happen.
Yeah.
Well, and you talk about p- pa- passion, one ofthe things that I've been really, you know, kinda digging
into is the whole idea of, you know, what it...what does it mean to grow older?
What does it mean to... and what are ourassumptions about that that are

(51:19):
maybe false? Um, I'll be 63 in July and, you know,I feel
like I'm just now kinda starting to figure outwhat life is all about.
[laughs]
And, you know, the idea that we,
you know, work most of our life doing somethingthat maybe we don't even enjoy doing so that we
can spend a few idea... a few years in retirement,uh, doing what we do enjoy

(51:41):
doing. And then so many times, you hear aboutpeople, they retire and
then they kind of lose all their purpose. They...
And so I'm, I'm really just exploring that wholeidea of,
you know, retirement. Is that, is that really-
Mm-hmm
... you know, what... or is it,

(52:01):
you know, having time to do something that we'rereally passionate about?
Maybe it's-
Yeah
... maybe it's shifting gears, and that's kindawhat I'm, what I'm looking towards of, of spending more
time teaching and... But, you know, just ingeneral of I've been, you know, hearing
stories about people o- of advanced age doingincredible things, um-
Yeah
... and

(52:22):
you know, what are, what are our assumptions aboutaging and what is that...
how can we change that? Can we change that,
that parameter
and
live lives to the fullest
at any age?
Yeah.
Um, I'm, I'm inspired by, um, the, the story ofCaleb in the Bible.

(52:42):
He was, uh, one of the two spies that went intothe promised land and came back and said, "We can take
it." And there's a, there's this passage that sayshe was 85 years old
and he was still just as strong as the young guys.
And it was attributed to the fact that he viewedthe troubles and
the challenges and the difficulties of his life as

(53:05):
bread. You know, that, that... the, the, thehardships, that's, that's bread,
that feeds me, that makes me strong, rather than,"Oh gosh, this hardship is
so hard and it's so difficult and, you know, howare we gonna get through it?
Woe is me." And so, you know, how much of,
of who we are is, is our attitude?

(53:26):
No, no, 100% agree and, you know, and, uh, uh...
Yeah, it's... Mindset is, is everything, you know?
It's, it's, it's what you wanna choose to do withyour time and, you know, lot of
people just
don't necessarily wanna kind of keep, keep stayingactive and, and, and, you know, taking all
the things that get thrown at you every day andkinda overcoming challenges.

(53:46):
But, like, you know, some, some people and, and Ithink, you know, what, what a lot of people tell you is, you
know, the more that they do stay active, the morethat you keep going, like, you know, it really does, it, it
prolongs your life.
Absolutely.
You know? As, as soon as you stop, you know,thinking and doing and, and being active, you know,
you, you, you start to, you know, slowly die off.
And it's like if, if, if you've got that passionand that ability to like, you know, not view

(54:09):
things as work. You know, I mean, I, I tell peopleI, I haven't worked a day in my life.
You know, like, this is my hobby, this is mypassion, this is what I want to do every day.
Right.
You know? And, and that's what fuels me and that'swhat like...
you know, like it, it, it, it helps me
always remember, you know, even in the toughest,most stressful times that, you know what?
I'm doing what I want to do. I'm here because Iwant to be here, not because I have to be here.

(54:31):
And, and, and that helps me to not let the stressbecome overwhelming.
It helps me to keep the anxiety at bay.
And like, I think when you really know that you'remaking that choice to keep going
and to, to do something that you want to do-
Right
... you know, now you're fulfilling your own, yourown passion, your own, you know, desire.
Like, you know, it's, it's your own destiny, yourlegacy that you get to build and there's no, no, no

(54:54):
clock or no time that has to tell you when yougotta retire or stop doing stuff.
And, you know, I, I love to see you keep going,man.
I love to see you build out, you know, a wholefranchise network of people that, you know, can make a huge
impact, you know, across dozens of cities andstates. I mean, that, that, that, that's incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man, well, Chris, I, I really appreciate youcoming on and, and sharing this story.

(55:16):
I mean, this is, uh, you know, just been, been,been such [laughs] an inspiration to me to, to hear
and to know, you know, what you've gone...
you know, what you've gone through and how youhave continually overcome, you know, challenges and, and,
and you keep, you know, putting the right peoplein place. You're, you know, making the right moves.
You, you know that sometimes it's not easy.
You know, fear of the unknown is, is, is, is, isscary, you know, and, and knowing that, look, you know, if I

(55:38):
open up this, this marketing floodgate, you know,who knows what's gonna come? But, you know what?
We're, we're, we're prepared, we're gonna handleit, you know, we're gonna adapt, and, you know, I just...
I, I, I, I love that about you. I love seeing, youknow, your strong, you know, drive and just this,
this, this intrinsic, you know, desire to helpothers.
And I'm such a big believer that, you know, when,when you do right by other people, when you do good and you

(56:00):
put others first, you know, it, it, it...
everything just seems to work out and comes back,you know, to, to help you and, and, and, and, and be there
for you in the end. But man, it's, it's just veryhonorable and, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm proud to say I know
you and, and, and, and would consider you a friendand someone that we've, you know, been able to, to, to
check in, you know, with along the way.
But I can't wait to see where you take thisbusiness and how big this impact, you know, can, can be, you know,

(56:23):
as you keep building it out, 'cause you're,you're, you're doing a great job, Chris, and just an
inspiration to me and my team. So thank you forcoming on and for sharing that.
Awesome. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Yep. All right. Well, have a good one, Chris.
Okay.
We'll see you soon. [heavy metal music] Thanks forjoining us for this episode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gainedvaluable insights that can help you in your

(56:44):
journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave usa review.
And as always, if you or someone you know has astory to share, please contact
us at builderstories.com. We'd love to hear fromyou.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember, every builderhas a unique story.
Keep building yours. [heavy metal music]