How Niching Down and Publishing Prices Helped Build a Remodeling Business | Luke Larson of Larson Basement & Bath

Fueled by passion for his work and an entrepreneurial itch, Luke left the audio industry and opened a carpentry business in 2021. Today, he’s transformed the company into a thriving remodeling business that specializes in basement build-outs and bathrooms. Luke shares how focusing on a specific niche, being transparent with pricing, and properly vetting trade partners have been key to his growth. He also discusses balancing entrepreneurship with family life and how his mindset keeps him grounded through challenges.

 

 

In this episode you will learn:

• Luke’s secret to peace and joy in business
• Why Luke niched down to basements and bathrooms and what it’s done for the company
• How he arrived at the right margins for his business
• Why he began publishing price ranges on the company website and how it’s affected client conversations
• Tips for success for running a business with your spouse

 

Learn more about Larson Basement & Bath here: https://www.larsoncustom.com/

 

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
(Instrumental music) Welcome to the podcast wherewe take a deep dive into the stories behind

(00:03):
construction business leaders. We will share howthey got started, how they found
success, and the lessons learned along the way.I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back, everybody. I am excited today.
I've got Luke Larson, who is the owner of LarsonBasement and Bath.

(00:25):
They're located in the Twin Cities, Minnesota.Very excited to have you on the show today.
Welcome to Builder Stories, Luke.
Yeah, thanks so much. Super excited to be here.
Yeah, so why don't you, uh, tell us a little bitabout who you are, how did you get into
construction, and, uh, what does your company do?
Yeah. Oh, great question. So, uh, so LarsonBasement and Bath is our company.
We started off as doing, doing carpentry, and thenwe were kind of general with Larson Custom

(00:49):
Construction. Then we changed our name to LarsonBasement and Bath.
That's kind of the general story of the company aswe niched in and brought into our, uh, um,
kind of our favorite projects, which are basementbuild-outs and bathroom remodels.
So, uh, we are a full-service general contractor.
Um, we do everything from design to permits, allthe way to cleanup, all construction in between,
um, and all trades basically. So on thoseprojects, we're really pretty specific to basements

(01:14):
and bathrooms. However, we've done plenty of otherinterior type projects, kitchens and,
and, uh,
you know, all kinds of interior stuff, so...
(laughs)
Nice.
Decorative wainscoting, cabinetry, all that ty-type of fun stuff.
But interiors is really our specialty, um, and weabsolutely love it.
We started in, uh, in 2021, right during COVID,um, been just kind of growing

(01:34):
steadily ever since, and, and, uh, loving everyminute of it. It's a blast. We love what we do.
Nice. What, what led you to, uh, to want to starta construction company?
Yeah. Well, my dad's been in construction my wholelife, so he's a, he's
a project manager for a, uh, drywall and framing
subcontractor on the large-scale commercial sideof things.
So, uh, so he PMed the, like the Twins Stadium andbig monster

(01:59):
hospitals around and different things like that,uh, for all the drywall, steel stud framing,
insulation, and fireproofing. So he's kind of beenin that world my whole life, um-
Yeah.
... and I've always been fascinated by his job onthe project management side of things, 'cause I love
details. I'm a super technical person-
(Laughs)
... and, um, it's really fun. So I've always beeninterested in that.
He also happens to be really handy, even thoughmost of his job is at a desk.

(02:21):
So the first time I ever finished a basement waswhen I was in middle school, um,
with him. My brothers and I helped him out and,um, we all kind of took to it, but I think I really took
to it, and it- just enjoyed every minute of it. Iwanted to be down there.
I wanted to keep going when the project was done.
I'm like, "What else can we do?" So then we builtthe deck and did some different stuff.
But he taught me a lot about, uh, working with myhands in construction when I was a kid, and as I kind of grew

(02:45):
up more, learned more about the business side ofit, um, and I've kind of always had an
entrepreneurial itch. So, uh, it took me a whileto...
I- I- I've been in construction in a coupledifferent, uh, trades, just working as an employee,
um,
and done side projects for people all around, but,um, I actually was a- in, uh, audio engineering
and manufacturing industry for a good number ofyears, um, totally separate from this, but I

(03:09):
kind of just felt like my,
um, after, uh, what was it, seven, eight years, Ithink, of doing that, I've kind of felt like my days were
numbered and I wasn't sure, um,
um, why. I was just kind of, uh, y- I'm a, I'm aChristian. I kind of...
And I, I'm, was listening to that, and I was justkind of like, "Man, what do I...
Why do I feel like the page is gonna be turningfor me sometime soon?" And I, um, we walked by a

(03:32):
house that was being built, uh, just Kristin andI. Kristin's my wife. We run the company together.
Um, walked by a house that was being built, and itjust kind of occurred to me.
I was like, "Man, I, I think I know more about thebusiness of construction
intuitively
than I do about the business that I'm in." Um, andI was doing well there.
I was running, running different, you know,departments and kind of internally and different things like

(03:53):
that too, and building systems and processes for,um, product,
you know, product testing and manufacturing andall this different types of stuff. It was so much fun.
I thought I was gonna retire there. Um, but
yeah, whole different plan, so... (laughs)
Yeah.
Ended up starting the, starting the business, and,um, I actually had a, had a coffee with a
builder, a home builder that I knew, and I waskind of looking for a job, is what I was looking for.

(04:19):
And, uh, at the end of the conversation, um, I wasjust kind of telling him, I'm like, "Man, I feel like I'm,
I'm...
need to get back into construction. I don't knowif you have advice or if you have a job.
I would love to just kind of get back intoconstruction." And, uh,
and he s- he asked me a whole bunch of questions,and I think he kind of sensed the entrepreneurial, uh,
itch, you know? And my, my, um, capacity for, for

(04:42):
working with people, leading people in systems andprocesses and stuff, and he, uh, he ended up
telling me, he's, he's like, "You know, I don'thave a job, but even if I did, I wouldn't hire you, because I
think you need to start your own business." And Iwas like, "Well, I like that." (laughs) "That
sounds really good."
Yeah.
And I ended up doing that. I talked to Kristin andwe were on the same page and, uh, and yeah, started in the
middle of COVID and,

(05:03):
and, uh, I was doing everything myself at thebeginning, but kind of have grown up, got licensed, and,
um, been doing larger scale projects ever since,so...
U- I'm, I'm curious, what, what were some of yourfirst projects?
Yeah, let's see. Well, so I, naturally, I kindof...
As far as of, of the trades, I tend towardscarpentry projects.
I really like working with wood and differentthings, and I had a CNC machine that I had, um, designed and

(05:26):
built a few years before, so I kind of got intocabinetry and stuff eventually.
But my very first project, which makes me laugh,uh, was putting in a retaining wall,
because when you start a business, you just takewhatever job.
If somebody asks, "Hey, can you do this?" And thenmy-
Yup.
... dentist, right after that, my dentist asked meif I would put in a
concrete sidewalk, and I was like, "Absolutely, Ican." So,

(05:49):
(laughs) so I went and did that. But that was howit started.
I just kind of took the jobs as they came, and,um, eventually got into more trim and, and,
uh, we did lot- lots of trim projects and then w-and then got into custom cabinetry before, um,
m- moving into kind of the full general contractorprojects, so...
Yeah. I, I love that, man. I, I think the, uh, theentrepreneurial itch is very

(06:11):
real.
Yeah.
And it's, uh, it's something that, you know, it's,it's if that's what you're called to do, you know, it's,
uh, i- it's, it's hard to ignore it if- (laughs)
Yeah.
... you know, if, if, if it's there for you.
And, you know, I think, uh, it sounds though y-you really had a solid kind of, you know,
foundation of, of, of passion, though, for-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, for building and for constructionand working with your hands, and, you know, obviously that

(06:32):
like, I think plays a big role in what will keepyou going through, you know, the, the, the, the
tough times and, you know-
Mm-hmm.
It's obviously probably not been, uh, you know,super easy and, uh-
Yeah.
... you know, having that to fall back on is justlike that true love for, for the trades and, and, and for
building is, uh, you know, it's awesome that, thatyou've got that at heart.
Yeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's, it's true. It's,it's, uh...

(06:53):
E- I feel like even, you probably, I mean, youknow, you've had multiple businesses, everything like that,
but you start a, you start a business and,
and w- I mean, we are two feet in. We want to dothis for the rest of our lives.
Yup.
But there's always this thing in the back of mymind of like, "Ooh, what if I started this business and
could do..." You know? And I think (laughs)there's all these different ideas, so it's a real thing.
It just keeps on going, but it's, uh, uh, yeah,it's a blast. It's, uh...

(07:15):
I'm, I'm so grateful to
have had the opportunity and the right people inmy life and, and everything to, to push me to go
out and do it, 'cause there's... It's, uh, it'srisky and it's scary-
Yup.
... and leaving a, leaving a full-time well-payingjob to go make almost nothing, doing a bunch of stuff
you hate for a little while for the hope ofbuilding it into something great, and that's where we're at now,

(07:36):
and it's, um... Man, I'm just so... I'm blessedand grateful. It's awesome.
Yeah. No, I, uh, I totally agree, and, you know,I've, I've had to,
uh, you know, always remind myself, and, and Ithink probably my, my dad's best advice was,
you know, "You can't boil the ocean." And, youknow, what, what I, what I take from that is, like-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, the importance of focusing andmaking sure that, you know, you, you put your, your attention

(07:58):
and your efforts to doing something really, reallygreat.
You know, I've, I've seen a lot of entrepreneursand, and people who kind of take on multiple, you know,
projects and ventures and try to create multiplebusinesses and, you know, at the end of the day, that the
ones that seem to be the most successful are theones that had, you know, the, the, the founder's
undivided attention and is just like-
Mm-hmm.
... "This is it. I'm all in." You know, "We're110% invested in making this a success."

(08:21):
You know?
Yeah.
And that's, that's something that I've had to, youknow, I, I've, I've, I've got my lane and here's where I go
and here's my business, I'm doing JobTread.
Like, everything else, all the otheropportunities, you just gotta, "Hey, man, now's not the right time."
You know?
Yup.
"I'm focused. I'm already committed." Um...
That's so true. Yeah, so absolutely true.
I had a mentor tell me one time, this was before Istarted the, the business, but, uh, we were talking about,

(08:42):
um,
a number of different things, but, you know,marriage and then our house.
I kind of wanted a new house and Kristin reallywanted to stay and that type of stuff, but, um, but this came up
in conversation where he, he told me that peace,like, just inner general peace
generally doesn't come
until you have a two feet in commitment.
If you got one foot out the door or thinking aboutsomething else, you're gonna be torn always, but like,

(09:06):
when you are fully committed and in it, that'swhen you really get to feel the peace, feel the joy and, and
excitement of it all. Um, and I've so felt that inthe business, Scoot, too, with how many times I've
thought about, like, you know, during the hardtimes, it's like, "Man, I wonder if we should do exteriors.
Those guys are always, like, seem to be just, haveplenty of work and stuff," or what a different stuff, but
I'm like, "I don't, I don't get excited aboutexteriors." (laughs) You know?

(09:28):
It's not, doesn't make me happy. But, like,basements and bathrooms honestly are so much fun
and basements specifically 'cause we spent ourwhole childhood in a basement. So, um, I don't know.
It's just, it's fun to see building those placesout and seeing what they can become for people.
Yeah.
Um, I get excited about it, so two feet in, thisis what we're doing.
S- so you said early, you know, you, you and, andKristin, your wife, you, you spent time kind of

(09:50):
talking and deciding to go into this together, sowere, are, are you both full time on the business
and h- has it, has it been like that from thebeginning?
We are now. So I, so-
Okay.
... let's see. I started in, uh, the fall of '21,um, and then it was just
me until the, about the summer of '23 is when shejoined me full
time. Um, and that was soon after I got licensedand we started taking on bigger projects 'cause that kind of

(10:14):
helped the cash flow side of things. It was stillso scary.
And of course, like, she gives, uh, her job wasreally good to her, um, and she was part of
a, part of a larger company, but she was part of asmall
team, so it was kind of a small company becausenobody else is cross-trained in their department, right?
So, um,
so she was
leaving that team of four people was kind of a bigdeal, so she gave them a pretty long notice.

(10:37):
It was two months or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
Um,
and between when she gave her notice and when sheactually left, we made, like, no more
sales that summer (laughs)
like, "Ah."
So it was just crazy, but yeah. It's, uh, it's,this whole thing isn't for the faint of heart, but,
but-
Yeah, for sure.
... it's all worked out great, honestly.
And, and soon after that, we had s- we had anothercouple, uh, couple big projects and then I, I don't know,

(11:00):
say it's five or six months after that, we doubledour whole year in the-
Wow.
... course of, like, 30 or 40 days. Um, so it wasawesome.
But since then, basically, yeah, we've been goingfull time and I, uh, I mainly focus on
project management, um, sales and, uh, estimating,all that side of things, and then she's
really on the back end, um, in admin. She, uh,she's actually a certified bookkeeper, so she

(11:23):
does our books and, um, all that good stuff, too.
And a lot of our marketing, honestly, is all her.
She's a absolute pro, um, in Canvas.
I always want to say Canva. Canva?
Which one? (laughs)
Canva.
Canvas is the scanning app.
Yup.
Canva's the one that you use. I get 'em mixed up.
So, but yeah, she's a pro in that and has helped aton with our client-facing

(11:44):
proposals and documents and things like that, too.So that's kind of how we work together.
Yeah. That's awesome. Sounds like you guys reallyhave a very clear kind of roles and
responsibilities and, you know, kind of complementeach other really nicely there.
Mm. Yeah. It's been a journey to get there, butwe've, we've really kind of-
(laughs)
I've taken whole, whole pieces of things that I'mlike, "I think she could do most of this,"
and I hand all of it to her, and then

(12:06):
she learns it and tells me the stuff that sheeither doesn't feel like she has the, um,
skills or even just the information, 'causesometimes if she's like, "I need your information to do this,"
and then that ends up getting passed back to me ifit's kind of like she can't even go an inch without a
meeting, then it gets passed to me, right?
So then we, we kind of pass the whole thing andpass part of it back, and we've been doing that more and more,

(12:28):
um, and that's really helped define the linesbetween what we do, um,
and, uh, yeah. That's been really great.
That's awesome. So was she your first officialhire?
She was, yup, and only. Yup. It's, it's just ustwo in the business, so we have-
Okay.
... uh, we use subcontractors for everything else,um, and we're gonna try to go that way as long as we
possibly can. We, we also have, you know, um,

(12:50):
you know, a vendor managing our social media,different things like that.
But as far as that goes, it's all vendors andsubcontractors outside of Kristin and I, so.
Okay. Nice. I mean, you know, I think a lot of,th- there's obviously that great debate on, well, you know, do
we bring in full time employees? Do we leverage-
Yeah.
... subs? You know, h- how have you, you know,have you found that, like, you know, you've had issues with
scheduling or with quality, you know, those areusually probably the top two things I hear, you know,

(13:12):
people are concerned about with, with usingsubcontractors.
Yeah. I've kind of, I've honestly kind of heardthat both ways, too, in terms of
the... Part of how I talk about it with clientsis, is sometimes you can
have, if you have subcontractors, and it de- alldepends on the relationship you have with them, right?
So-
Now-
... if you, and how good you are at vetting themand, and honestly, just how, uh, sometimes just how

(13:35):
lucky you get. (laughs) You know? It's a roll ofthe dice sometimes.
But, but the, um, when you have really goodsubcontractors, a
lot of times they're specialists, so they're,they're working and they're, and they're experts at
what they do as opposed to, sometimes I feel likewhen companies will have employees,
it becomes three guys who can do 10 differenttrades, but maybe none of them at an expert

(13:58):
level. So depending on... But it's also cheaper torun that way and you also have more
control over the quality. So depending on, I feellike your,
um, yours and, and my, you know, generalcontractor, project manager,
um, skills as a manager
and, and leader of employees would have a bigdifference on how that actually plays

(14:22):
out versus subcontractors. For my personality, Ireally like working with subs.
I,
maybe someday we'll have employees. Um, I wouldn'tbe surprised.
Uh, but we're gonna run like this as long as wecan just 'cause we feel like it's working really well.
Um, but overall, we've been really picky on thesubs that we use, though.
They have to, th- they have to be,
they have to be competent, of course.

(14:42):
I have a ph- phone conversation with them first,and then I go on site to one of their job sites or
any oth- anywhere that they've had a recentproject,
and I look at it pretty darn closely and checkfor...
I want people who are meticulous and whogenerally-
Yeah.
... care, you know? Um, and then, uh, and then Ialso want them to interact with
Kristin somehow, and that, that usually comes inwith, you know, getting their certificate of insurance

(15:04):
and that type of stuff. But if, if I can haveKristin meet them or be on a video call
with them or something like that where she feelscomfortable with them in our home, um-
Mm-hmm.
... that's usually a really good sign, and we'vehad good luck with that being kind of a system of,
okay, then I can trust them in our client's homeand I can, they can make sure that they're-...
they're just good people, you know?

(15:25):
Yeah.
And, and that makes all the difference in theworld. People like kind, good people.
(laughs) So-
Yep. No, I think that, uh, uh, I think you said itright.
I mean, it's, it, it really does come down to, youknow, how well are you at, you know, picking,
you know, these, these people and picking yourteam and building that team, whether it's-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, full-time employees or it's, it'ssubcontractors.
Like, at the end of the day, you know, you as aleader, you gotta attract great people, you gotta recruit

(15:48):
great people, and you gotta manage them-
Yeah.
... and make sure that they're doing the thingsand that they know the expectations that you have for them
and for the projects. And like, at the end of theday, like, you know, uh, uh, uh, there's always this great
debate, right? Like, some people are die-hard oneway or the other.
Yep.
You know, I think it's great though being able toleverage subs, especially early on-
Mm-hmm.
... when, when you don't have that consistent cashflow and, you know, you may not know if you're gonna get

(16:11):
that next job. Like, this lets you, you know, kindof, sort of take a little bit less, you know, risk
and commitment upfront to be able to still get thework done.
And when you sell it and, like, as you go, youknow, I know, I know a lot of people will end up hiring their subs
on full-time, and-
Yeah.
... you know, that's great, that, that works, butyou still have that period where
if something happened,
you know, you're not having to now lay people offand they're not-

(16:32):
Yeah.
... you know, being able to put, put food on theirplate.
I mean, I, I think it's a, it's a good, healthybalance, especially early on to, to be able to leverage
subs.
Yeah. Oh, you're absolutely right. And I wouldn'tdo it any other way.
If I were to start again, I would start with subs,even if the plan was employees down the road only
because, um, of, of the journey that we've beenon, where it's like when, especially when we switch to
larger projects, the-

(16:54):
Mm-hmm.
When I got licensed, the very first large projectthat we got, I say large, it was a, it was a kitchen and bath
remodel. Um, everything's relative to everybodyelse, right?
So,
but, um, for me,
I had done trim projects th- where I replaced thewhole house trim for $2,000 or something
like that, including materials, and pricing wasjust so tough for me early on.

(17:15):
(laughs)
Yeah.
And, and saying the right price of what I neededto say.
And s- and I'm an empathetic person, so I'm alwayswant- looking out for other people before myself.
So, that's been a journey. But earlier on, like,trying to do that type of thing, using subs allows me to
get bids and just have hard reality, real numbersthat I can depend on-
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
... to work with. And for that, the very first bigproject that we did,

(17:37):
that was kinda the only thing that we had goingon, 'cause it was, it was a learning experience, you know?
We, that, prior to that, I think, uh, the first,uh, the largest project that I did was
13,000 or something like that, and then I gotlicensed and I got super lucky 'cause the first
project was this kitchen and bath remodel that waslike 108.
Um, so it was a h- and it was managing subs forthe first time, too. So, it was a whole different ball game.

(17:59):
So I didn't have, I didn't schedule any otherprojects during it, which means if I had employees, I
mean, they maybe could have worked on it, or evenif I just had one guy, but there was gaps within there
where we were just like, "It's the plumber's turn.
I, you know, I don't have anything for you." Youknow, that would have been really tough to start out with
employees-
Yup.
... that way. I know plenty of people do it.
I'd be-
Mm-hmm.
... curious to know how that looks, but, um, I'drecommend subs to anybody starting off, just

(18:24):
it's more expensive, but you can control andunderstand
the details-
Yeah.
... throughout it all.
I mean, it, it, you know, to some extent though,like, you've, you've again, you, you don't,
you don't have to know, like, their productionrate and have to know exactly how long it's gonna
take them to do every single thing, because, youknow, if you're selling a fixed price project-
Mm-hmm.
... and you don't know how long it's gonna takeyour, you know, your team to do it, you know, you're, you're

(18:47):
really kinda walking into a situation where you'vegot this variable cost, you know?
Yeah.
Versus with a sub, you know, you can basically th-let them bid on it.
You know, you take their bid and, you know,whatever, whatever it is, you add your markup, your margin on
top, and, and go sell it, and then it's, it's theonus is now on them-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, to deliver. And they're getting paidthe same amount no matter how long it takes them.
You know, it really does mitigate that risk.

(19:08):
And I-
Yep.
... you know, again, e- early on, like, y- youjust, you don't have anything to, to put at risk here.
You know, you gotta get it right and you gotta beable to deliver on those first couple projects or, you know,
you're probably just gonna shut the business downas fast-
Yeah.
... as you started it.
(laughs) Right. Yeah, no kidding. Well, and that'sthe funny thing, is even, even in that case, you could,
you could know every possible number you could tryto plan for, but when you're new at it, like,

(19:31):
like I think I, I misjudged a couple things that Ididn't get bids on by thousands, and
was totally off on different things, but was, uh,earlier on, and just, and just had to learn and figure it
out, like, there's always risk. But this, itreally does mitigate risk in a big way.
Um-
Yeah.
And that's where I've felt the most comfortable.
But then with everything else, kinda what I'velearned even now, like, there's certain things that just
can't be known. And I'm a detail person.

(19:53):
(laughs)
I'm a technical person, so I want to know all thedetails before I move.
So, one of the biggest learning pieces for me hasbeen instead of
finding, um,
I don't know, finding confidence or security inknowing the details,
I need to step forward not knowing the details and

(20:14):
find confidence in my ability to problem solve,right?
So, like, as I go through things, my confidencehas to be really in myself and my
ability to figure it out when and if stuff comesup.
And that's made all the difference as a businessowner, to be able to step through and to continue moving
forward even when I don't know all the details ordon't, don't have a full entire plan

(20:35):
sometimes and we'll figure it out. And weconsistently do, and that's been a, that's just-
Got it.
... continues to help grow that, you know, wherewe can move forward, serve our clients, do a great job, and
not get hung up on things that aren't worthgetting hung up on, so...
S- so how did you handle, you know, early on when,when you said you made, made a couple, you
know, just mistakes that, you know, ultimatelycost thousands of dollars, I mean, how did you handle

(20:57):
that with, with the client, and, you know, did youeat it?
Did you try to get a change order? Like, what,what was your process early on?
Yeah. It's, I've usually had a conversation.
I've had a couple, few of those were just, it'sall, you know, we're always just learning, so (laughs)
I've had a few of those. Um,
clients don't always know,
um,
haven't always known, you know, that I've, I,there's probably three that I can think of since we, since we

(21:22):
started business and, and I've, there's basicallyI've had a conversation with a client and just said,
and, and said, "Hey, here's where we're at," um,but most of the time, I'm thinking about those things ahead
of time, and, 'cause I always wanna know what myask is
when I'm going to talk to a client. Like, what amI actually asking for?
Most of the time, I end up eating all of it or,or,

(21:42):
you know, a large portion of it before I even talkto them.
So, there's kind of a stage of, whe- like one ofthem was that first large one that I was just
talking about, that kitchen and bath was our firstbig project, never used subcontractors.
I made a guess on electrical because I was havinga hard time getting them out to bid
the thing, and they, the company I was lookingthat into wasn't getting back with me, and, uh,

(22:05):
I should have sent it out to multiple, one ofthose learning things.
But
the, uh, and I misjudged that amount by a fewthousand dollars, and I was kind of like,
"Ugh." But at the end of the day, I told my clientthat I was gonna remodel their kitchen and I
was gonna do it right and up to code and we weregonna be using
licensed and certified professionals throughoutthe whole project and pull a permit and all that good

(22:26):
stuff. Um, so we did it. And, and we've, and
most times, that's usually how I approach things,is I'm, I'm gonna stick to my word and call it a lesson
rather than
trying to get what I can out of it, you know?
Um, the only times that w- I end up really askingthe clients for anything is if it's
legitimately like we couldn't have known we runapon- we ran upon this, or-

(22:47):
Sure.
... there's a cracked vent pipe inside a wall thatwe didn't open up until we started, right?
So it's stuff like that. But, um, for the mostpart, we end up eating it, um-
Yeah.
... and we don't share that stuff with clientsmost often.
Um, we just take care of it and call it a lessonand move forward, so...
Yeah, that's great. I mean, I, I think so manypeople,
you know, that there's, there, there is thisbalance of, you know, hey, what, what is worth, you know,

(23:11):
trying to go fight for and get a change order orrecoup-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, versus what... what is it worth it,you know, where, where do you draw that line?
And like, you know, at the end of the day, like,you know, y- you gotta deliver the right-
Mm-hmm.
... solution. You know, and I think standing byyour word, and if you sold them, you know, a project
and that should've been included, you know, Ithink that there's something to be said about making sure

(23:33):
that you stand by, you know, what you sold becauseyour reputation-
Mm-hmm.
... is so much more valuable than-
Always.
... you know, the couple thousand bucks that mayhave to come out of your pocket to make sure you do right by
your client.
Yeah.
You know? And it's, it's unfortunate that, youknow, there are those contractors out there who, you know,
would, would, you know, take the money and run,and might not even, you know, fix the issue to begin with.

(23:54):
Mm-hmm.
You know? And that's, that's I think giving thewhole industry a bad reputation.
So, you know, when, when people find, you know, acontractor who is doing what they say they will
do
in taking care of the client, like I think that'sso valuable, you know, and so important that, you know, y-
you can be there and, and stand, stand by yourword, man. It's great.
Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And what's funnyabout it to me is like when you...

(24:15):
And I can understand that... I can understand theinclination to protect every dollar and to, and
to be really... And to get defensive in thosecases and to try to get every penny out of it.
I can understand the inclination. But what's funnyis like you're exactly right.
A good name is better than riches. A goodreputation is better than everything, right?
So it's like
if we can
just, you know, calm the inside (laughs) scarypieces of potentially

(24:40):
losing money in those situations-
Yeah.
... and approach the situation with some, withsome wisdom and some just patience and everything
like that, too, it's,
it's actually the smart thing to do, right?
It's not, it's not like it's, it's not like it'sa,
it's selfish to...
You know what I mean? Like it's, it's just theright thing to do to hold that up, and it's actually more

(25:02):
selfish for your business if you're thinkinglong-run.
Not selfish in a bad way, but, you know, self-,um,
thinking about yourself in the business and yourfamily and everything like that.
If you're thinking long, it's so much better.
And it, and everything ends up better that way,too, because you don't have to be reactive about the little
things.
Yup.
You call in the loss and then move on, and, and,uh, that's proven, yeah, so much,

(25:24):
so much better-
Yeah.
... approach those situations with calm.
I think, too, what's interesting is that, youknow, a lot of times at the end of the day, you know,
after the project's all said and done, like the,the homeowner's not gonna remember every
single detail and all the challenges that came up.
But like what they will remember is theexperience-
Mm-hmm.
... and how you made them feel. And when they knowthat you took care of them, like you're earning their,

(25:46):
their referrals and their recommendations-
Mm-hmm.
... and like that word of mouth, like that, thatwill go so much farther than that
particular thing that came up that you dealt with.
Like it's just about the experience that youprovide, and when they feel like they have found a great
contractor, like they're so much more likely totell others about that, and they can just come
back and pay, you know, (laughs) for itselfmany-fold over.

(26:07):
It's almost like that little issue that you tookcare of, you know, i- it cost you a little
bit today-
Yeah.
... but man, it could pay for so much more comingback towards you later.
Yeah. Oh, no kidding. It's so true. And that's,that's also the reason to charge enough for the
project to actually do the project well, 'causepeople are always trying to...
So many contractors are trying to win projects.

(26:28):
They cut the cost, and then they're like, "Oh,shoot, I actually have to do this project
at this cost." And they, and then they start tofind the compromises to make the numbers work.
And it just doesn't make sense because that's notwhat you sold the client.
So it's like when you can charge enough to do theproject the right way, then you can make a great
experience and also deliver in every area that,that matters on the actual build,

(26:51):
and, um, man, it, it just makes a world ofdifference.
We just had a, we just reached out to a clienttoday.
Uh, we do, we're, we're proactive about ourwarranty visits, so we, um, we actually set up
about 10, 11 months after the project finish up,we do a, we, we reach out to the client and say, "Hey, we'd
love to stop by, just check on the project andmake sure everything's holding up the way that it's supposed
to." And that's a, that's a service thing that wedo, but it's also, it's really helpful just to

(27:15):
get in front of people again and stay in touchwith our clients.
And, um, but this client we reached out to thismorning, she got back right away and she said, "I don't think a
visit's necessary. Everything's holding up great.Um, we are so happy about it. Thanks for reaching out.
It's fun to hear from you guys. And, uh, tellCandido we said hi," which is one of the main guys who worked on
his, on their project. And, um, those, like you...I don't know. Those are s-... It's so rewarding.

(27:36):
It's so fun-
Yeah.
... to hear from clients when, when the experiencewas great, and they're happy with the product
even a year later. Um, and that, and you can't dothat unless you
are, you stick to your word on every part of it.
And you can't stick to your word on every part ofit-
That's it.
... unless you know how to manage these projects,how to price the projects to do them the right way the first
time. So yeah.

(27:56):
Yeah.
It's a, it's all a, such a learning game, butit's, yeah, so much fun.
(laughs)
Well, I mean, y- you know, you mentioned earlierthat, you know, y- you felt like pricing was kinda like one
of the hardest things early on, and you, you're,you're talking about now like the importance of pricing
the project and charging, you know, what, whatyou're worth.
I mean, like how, how did you learn all of thisearly on?
Because I, I know so many people struggle withpricing.

(28:19):
I mean, and, and I think i- in, in general, likereally in any business, I think pricing is one of the most
complicated-
Mm-hmm.
... most challenging things to figure out.
So how did you
learn and, and, and figure out what do you chargefor your work? You know, h- how did you figure that out?
Yeah. Oh, it's such a good question, 'cause it's,I feel like I'm still learning and always learning.
But the...

(28:40):
Again, it's helpful to have some projects and todo, start to do projects where we've done similar
projects before and we can kinda compare andstuff.
That really is the place where you can start tohave real data to work with.
But at the beginning of the company, I had nodata.
Um, I had the perk that I was doing everythingmyself, so I,
y- you know, a- and I don't wanna say it's, it'sa,

(29:00):
it's necessarily a great thing to think oflong-term, but, but at the, at the most, I
knew what my material costs were gonna be, and Iwould give my labor for free or a
good chunk of it for free if I got things wrong,right?
So it's like
it was more about learning my labor cost of what Ineeded to charge for that.
And then eventually, after that point, learnedthat the business has to eat, too.

(29:23):
(laughs) And there's, there's taxes and there'sinsurance and, and all kinds of crazy things, and
overhead stuff, and all those different things.
So, um,
so I feel like earlier on, I, it was, I wasshooting from the hip.
I d- there was no, there was real no science orrhyme or reason. I was tracking stuff, I should say.
I mean, I was doing my best to kinda track things.
But, um, the biggest thing in my way, I think, wasan

(29:46):
assumption
that I didn't uncover until a year or two later,um, that, uh,
about my own value and, and the, and what I knowhow to do, 'cause I, 'cause I wouldn't pay for my
services, but it's because I know how to do them,right?
So it's like I wouldn't pay for my services morethan this amount, so that's what I would charge.
And, but the truth is, none of my clients know howto do the stuff that I know how to do,

(30:10):
and that's why they're paying me. And so there'skind of this... And then, okay, so how valuable is that?
So, it's a whole journey, but I'll say
tracking
is, just tracking costs is so stinking helpful andvaluable, and
you can't build a business without it.
Um,
there's different levels of how detailed you canget with tracking, of course, but just find a way.

(30:32):
Just say trim job, whole house. You know, if it'syour first one or two or something,
whole house, base trim, roughly this many squarefeet or linear feet,
and, and I price this much, and then make somenotes. That felt low. You know, and, and whatever.
Just start somewhere and, and grow from there andfigure it out.
Um, and then get something awesome like JobTreadto help you out later, so.

(30:55):
(laughs) Little, little plug there.
Yeah.
But,
um, yeah.
You know, I, well, it's, it's interesting though.
People don't, they don't realize the importance oftaking the time to do the job cost
and then to actually compare, Hey, here's what Iexpected the cost to be, and here's what it
actually came in like. I mean, when I was runningthe construction business, like, that, that was the thing
that like we, we literally never stopped toanalyze our performance.

(31:18):
You know, we ended up-... you know, waking up sixmonths later and found that, like, every, you know, this,
this particular job that we sold in, in Houstonover and over and over again, like, we, we literally were
losing 10 to 12%, you know? And it was like, we,we didn't-
Right.
... we just never stopped to look and say, "Hey,how did we perform?" You know, was,
"Did we make what we thought we were gonna make?"And, and it was like, you know, it was, it was every time we

(31:40):
did a fencing job, we, we just never updated thecost for our material.
And so,
you know, we were just basically paying (laughs)the client to put up more, you know, fence for them.
And like, you know, you just, you can't run abusiness that way, you can't scale a business if
you don't know your numbers and you don't have itdialed in.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, to your point, like, when you starttracking that, you know, yeah, it, it does, it takes,

(32:02):
you know, running some jobs, getting some data,but then being able to continually kind of compare
back and say, "Hey, like, you know, that feltlow," or, you know, "We, we kind of made this mistake here and we
should have adjusted there." Like, you gotta takethe time to update-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, your, your templates and your modelsand make sure that, you know, you don't keep making the
same mistake over and over and over again.
Yup. Oh, so true. A- and again, like, it, it's,there, you can go so deep into that

(32:27):
stuff, which is, which is, uh, the more you do,the more you're gonna get out of it, right?
The more helpful-
Yep.
... it's gonna be, the more you dig into thosetools. But just starting somewhere.
I've, I've talked to so many contractors that arejust like, they're like, "Uh, it sounds too, like, too
much for me. Sounds too overwhelming." A- and I'mlike, "Man, just write down the price, write down a
description of the job and how you felt about itby the end." Like, start there.

(32:48):
Yeah.
Just go somewhere. And then grow, because you cangrow into everything that you're talking about
and you'll, and you'll see all of this awesome
fruit come from it of being able to
feel good about your projects (laughs) by the timeyou're done with them, and actually enjoy what you do and
have your clients enjoy the process, too, becauseyou're doing things the way they should be done, you
know?

(33:09):
Yeah. So you said, uh, earlier, kinda, you know,again, starting off you just took whatever
jobs came your way. You know, h- how did you sortof figure out that you wanted to
really, you know, niche down and focus on
basements and baths? And, and it sounds like theremight have been kind of a little bit of a rebranding in
there? Like, h- how did that all-
Mm-hmm.
... sorta come, come to fruition for you?

(33:30):
Yeah. Oh, that's a, that's a fun question.
So we, I started off, I kinda knew I wanted to dothe general contracting thing, just Dad being a
project manager, s- getting to see a lot of thatworld.
Granted, he's in commercial and he's asubcontractor, but still, I, I, I knew enough about it and
I knew that I liked residential a lot better, um,and I liked interiors a lot better, so I kinda had a lot of

(33:50):
that before I even started the business.
But, um, but I knew, too, that I didn'tnecessarily wanna start off doing,
you know, looking for bathroom remodels.
I wanted to make all of my early business mistakeson small transactions,
(laughs) right? That just kinda felt prudent. So,uh, and 'cause there were plenty.
And, uh, but yeah, uh, all in all, it kindastarted doing, yeah, trim, I got into custom cabinets

(34:14):
'cause I had that, had that CNC and it kinda feltlike a good, um,
thing to be able to start doing. I kinda learnedabout cabinets and custom barn doors and fun stuff like
that. Um,
once I felt like I had just the rhythm of
being a contractor, being a business owner, allthat type of stuff down a little bit, and I felt like, "Okay,
I, I got a handle on this. I don't feel, like,concerned every day about the business.

(34:38):
It's kinda working," um, that maybe took a, yeah,about a year and a half or so,
um, and, uh, felt pretty comfortable with therhythm.
Uh, so I started studying for my license, andmaybe over the course of a couple of months or so, I, I studied
for that, got my general contractor's license,and, um,
and then I wasn't really sure where to go next,and it was that, that kitchen and bath project.

(35:00):
Um, it was one of my favorite projects to date,honestly.
Um,
but they reached out f- uh, to me as a carpenter,'cause that's what I was still kinda branded as at the time,
um, for a kitchen facelift, and, uh, thatescalated into
a, uh, into a full kitchen remodel, and then theyeventually asked me
af- while we were kind of in that proposalprocess, they're like, "Hey, we've had a couple contractors bid

(35:23):
on our bathroom
that we're thinking about doing, but could you dothat as well?" And so I, I said, "Well, do you mind if I ask
you a question? Is this, is this about
getting a better price or is it aboutconsolidating the contractor?"
And they said, "Well, consolidating thecontractor, for sure, we would just way rather have one do
everything, and we like you for the kitchen." AndI said, "Absolutely, that sounds great.

(35:45):
I'll take measurements today and we'll get thatfigured out," and ended up doing both, which was so fun.
So that, that was kinda the entrance into-
(laughs)
... the larger projects, uh, which we've beendoing ever since.
Um, and then
there's, there was kind of a time in there we werekinda trying to decide, and actually Joe Averill
is,
I love that dude. You just interviewed him at, Ithink, at whatever recently, and, uh, th-

(36:08):
he's a shark. He's just so awesome. (laughs) But Iwas talking to him, and he was telling me,
he's, he's like, "Why do you do so many things?"And I was like, "Well, you advertise kitchens, baths, and
basements, just like every other generalcontractor." He goes, "Yeah, that's way too many things."
(laughs) . So after that conversation, of course,and many others with him, too, and, and a few others,
I, uh, we ended up starting to think about how wewanted to niche down, and, uh, basement, baths,

(36:32):
basements and bathrooms are kinda what came out ofthat.
Basements are big anchor projects for us, wherethey can last a little longer, be a lot more steady, they're
great projects, um, and bathrooms are awesome,kinda smattering projects
to go throughout, uh, where we can do multipleprojects at a time.
We try to layer our basements, um, where we'restarting one after finishing another, uh,

(36:53):
but we can do bathrooms kind of all throughout theprocess, too, 'cause they're different enough, we can
manage them well and do that type of thing. So,um, so that's kinda where we ended up getting our focus.
That's great. And, you know, I mean, I've, I'veseen your website.
I mean, you, you really have kind of narrowed itin.
You know, the, the other thing that I, that Ireally love is that, you know, you, you actually have pricing
published on your website, you know, and I, and I,and I know a lot of people kind of sort of debate

(37:17):
on that, whether, you know, you should do that ornot do that.
I mean, can you, can you tell us a little bit moreabout, you know, w- what led you to decide to publish kind
of these, these, these price ranges, if you will,and how has that affected your ability, you know, to, to
bring in and attract the right leads and, andhopefully close them?
Yeah. Oh, that's a, yeah, that's been aninteresting one.
I don't know anybody else in our area,
um, that does that, aside from probably Joe andthere's one other.

(37:41):
It's and, and we, we actually met through acoaching program that we're in, um, that's a
nationwide coaching program, and that's one of thethings that they, that they talk about, it's specific
for contractors. But, um, but the idea, uh,actually comes from Marcus Sheridan's, uh, it's, I think
it's Marcus Sheridan's book, The Ask You Answer-
Oh.
... where he's talking about how clients are, theywanna know pricing.
If that's what they wanna know first, put it onyour website, like, put it out there.

(38:04):
And, and so
what's funny, though, is especially for what wedo, that was, gosh, that took months.
It was so hard to come up with numbers thatactually made sense.
So the way that we decided to go about it is, uh,we have starting prices.
So we, we'll say a,
you know, a three-quarter bathroom with showerpanels ins- as opposed to tile, shower

(38:25):
panels, and, um, basically a full gut otherwise,your vanity, toilet, flooring,
walls, ceiling, lighting, everything, um,
then, uh, we're, we start at about 37,000 andthat's what it, that's what it's, it's at currently.
And then we s- have similar ones for tile.
And then we have a full bathroom, we have thosesimilar prices, and then basement, we have similar prices,
with or without the bathroom, however many rooms,if you're gonna do a wet bar or theater.

(38:48):
There's different things like that.
So, uh, we just kinda put all those things onthere, and all of those prices are starting at
prices 'cause it gives us a baseline.
But what I've, what I didn't expect when we didthat is on our initial phone calls when I'm
talking pricing early on with our clients to givethem a good idea of what it is,
the thing I didn't really expect is how much

(39:09):
that would almost, um, I, I don't know ifcredentializes is the right word, but it kind of,
it, it, it supports the conversation where peopleknow
that I'm not, I'm not raising the price becausethey told me they're a doctor, right?
Like they, I'm not-
(laughs)
... I'm not doing something like that
because the price is listed, and I can-...
relate it right to the website, it just kindacreates this foundation of trust.

(39:30):
And more than likely, th- they've already lookedat it before our call, and then the numbers aren't
surprising. So for the most part, it's been reallyhelpful in giving people a good idea, and I'm
just trying to give people what they, what theywant earlier on, and setting
expectations for where we sit and kinda who we areand everything like that too, so it's been really
great.
Yeah. That's, that's awesome. I, uh, uh, couldn't,couldn't, uh, couldn't agree

(39:54):
more with, uh, with everything Marcus Sheridan andhis book They Ask You Answer.
I mean, I, you know, I heard him... I think wewere, I think we were both at the same...
was it Mile High Profit Summit, uh, couple, twoyears ago.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, he was there last year and I think the yearbefore.
Yeah.
Or maybe something like that. But, uh, yeah, Imean, it was, like, such an awesome, like, you know, talk
that he gave, and like, I went out and I boughthis book and read it, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is

(40:16):
incredible."
Yeah.
I bought, like, five or six more, gave them toeveryone on the team.
Like, I'm like-
Yeah.
... "Guys, you gotta read this." Like, we're,we're making all these decisions, you know, to, to...
Like, I mean, for us, like, we were like, youknow, having, like, you know, all of our kind of product update
webinars, like, it was only for customers.
And, you know, when he talked about like, ifyou're doing things that, like, you know, to hide, you know,
information from the competition, well, you'realso hiding it from your prospects in the market, and

(40:37):
you're, you're actually-
Mm-hmm.
... doing your customers a disservice, you know-
Mm-hmm.
... by not, like, just sharing what are theylooking for, what do people need to know to be able to work with
you. And I, and I love how he talked about just,you know, again, put it, put it out there, all those
tough conversations, those tough questions.
Like, go make a list of the top 10 most common,most important things that anybody needs to
know about you and working with you and publishit. You know?

(41:01):
Mm-hmm.
Create blog posts and videos. And like, I mean, weimmediately started doing that, and like, I mean, I, I was
talking to Marcus the other day, and like, I toldhim, I was like, "Man, like, I would attribute a lot of
JobTread's inbound organic growth is because, youknow, you inspired us to get on
YouTube and publish everything." And like-
Seriously.
... ever since then, like, you know, I think we'realmost like 500 YouTube videos now, and it's just like,

(41:21):
it, it's crazy what it can do to just
put it out there, be open, transparent.
Like, you know, if you know pricing is gonna be achallenge for, for, for some of your customers, you
know, (laughs) it's so much easier to just getthat out of the way, the elephant is out of, you know-
Yeah.
... out, up front than to have to come in later.
I mean, it, it just, it does, it alleviates thepressure
on you having that really, really tough, you know,conversation where you're just dreading telling them

(41:46):
the price because-
Mm-hmm.
... you know they, they already kinda have anidea.
Yep. It's so true. It just... And it gives, justgives a framework and an idea.
And what's cool too is, like, it all kinda makessense, where, for us, you can look on our basement page
and see what a basement is, and if they w- decidethey wanna finish their bathroom too, we have pricing
listed there, but it all lines up with ourbathroom page. So it's like, it all...

(42:07):
It, it just makes sense. That's what theseprojects to do, cost to do in-
Yeah.
... a way to do them well and do them right, um,with good materials and all that type of stuff too, and it...
But it makes such a huge difference, just to leadwith that and start with that.
Um,
it answers a lot of questions and helps, helpspeople a lot, so they can plan early.
I can't tell you how many people I talk to wherethey're like, they're like, "Yeah, we decided we wanted to do

(42:27):
this. We had a few contractors out. Um, it's beenabout a month.
I'm still waiting on some numbers from, for mostof them." And I'm just kind of like,
"Wow." (laughs) Like, "They couldn't have givenyou something sooner, huh?" (laughs) But
yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
So are, are... And, and you, you talked aboutkinda being part of, like, a coaching group.
I, I assume that's, uh, Battleground and, andContractor Fight, that group?

(42:49):
It is, yep. Yep. Tom Reber started this awesomeprogram called Battleground.
The Contractor Fight is their kind oforganization.
They have a free Facebook page that has a ton ofgreat stuff in it, uh, and then Battleground is their paid
program, um, and it is absolutely fabulous.
Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's something that,you know, I feel like he has really helped a
lot of people to understand, you know, their,their worth and their value and the importance

(43:13):
of, you know, charging the right amount.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I, and I think that there's a lot ofpeople, you know, who, again, it's, it's if, if you really
wanna kinda dial it in, like, you know,
heavily encourage that, but if you don't knowwhere to start, you know, his starting point is take your cost
and double it.
Yeah.
And, and go sell it at a 50% profit margin, andthat is a great place to start.
It'll allow you to have that cushion if somethinggoes wrong, you need to cover it-

(43:36):
Mm-hmm.
... just like how you said. You know, and, and atthe end of the day, though, I mean, you, you can, you know, you
can pay yourself good, you can pay your people,everyone is able to make money and do...
you know, and, and be properly compensated andincentivized for doing great work.
Yep. It's so true. And what's funny is, thatsounded so excessive to me.
Like, when I first heard that, it sounded likesuch excessive pricing, and I'm like, "Holy

(43:58):
moly." And, and it's... What was, but what's crazyis the more that I've
kinda learned through it,
and as I've kind of adjusted my marginsaccordingly, and I, I had the mindset earlier on,
like even when we were doing some of our firstprojects, is like, things like I...
you know, I can't afford the proper insurance.
I need to find the cheapest insurance that justbarely gets me by. And it's insurance.

(44:21):
It's, like, a huge deal, (laughs) you know? So,but in, in a...
But I was assuming that I couldn't possibly chargewhat I actually needed to charge to do the
job right. And when I say that, I mean goodmaterials, people who know how to install them, and
everything on the back end of the business to justoperate in a way that protects the
homeowner, 'cause that's what the homeowner, mosthomeowners don't know to even ask is,

(44:43):
you know, "Are you insured?" "Yes." "Okay, goodenough." You know?
But it's not good enough, 'cause
what if you paid... what if I paid $20 a month formy insurance,
and I'm a general contractor doing a $100,000project?
It's not enough, and it's not gonna be sufficientwhen it comes down to it.
So, um, knowing how to back it up and do thatstuff well,

(45:03):
and knowing what's involved in that, the only wayto do that is to charge appropriately, um, which so
many contractors are just missing, I think, and,um, and stuck in the mindset that you can't possibly
charge those things, just like I was, and, and,uh, yeah, learning more and more every day of
this is just what it costs to do a great job. Andat the end of the day, that's our goal.
We, it's, we set out to remodel

(45:25):
the client experience, and, uh, it's, and that'skind of, uh, kinda cute, right?
(laughs) But we, we really want to adjust theprocess and give it a facelift, 'cause
people are so used to a certain way of, of workingwith contractors, and
it's, and it's like, "Okay, get the ibuprofenready.
This is gonna be awful."
And that's what people are, have been used to,especially at, from what I hear about people around here.

(45:49):
Um, but we're trying to make it f- not only good,but fun and awesome and
happy with the results and everything, and theonly way to do that is to, is to charge enough to do it, right?
So no, yeah, makes a big difference.
Are you, uh, h- how, how have you seen kind ofsome of the, you know, the, the whole tariffs
and, you know, the, kind of the uncertainty rightnow in, in, in, in the economy and all that?

(46:09):
Has that kind of affected your, you know, yourlead flow, getting jobs closed and run?
I mean, is that, has that made an impact on you?
Yeah. I haven't seen it in our vendors too muchyet, in our, in our material prices.
Um, watching it very closely, (laughs) but Ihaven't seen too much of it yet.
Uh, I think it's definitely affected lead flow alittle bit, 'cause, um, you know, people wonder about

(46:29):
those things, of course, and everything.
Lead flow's been down for the last, you know,about since th- you know, last month or two, um,
but we still have, we still have plenty of workthat we've signed up, you know, up until then, um,
at the moment. So it's, uh...
Yeah. We'll, we'll kinda see how the year goes.It'll be interesting to see how it, how it all kinda lands.
Um, but, I mean, what was crazy is all this,there's all the tariffs and everything going on, and,

(46:53):
um, that kinda leading up to COVID. COVID wasnuts. It was bonkers for construction.
There was so much stuff happening, but it waslargely because so many people were home so
much more.
Yeah.
Right? So, um, so I'm not sure what to expect, um,out of the-
Yeah.
... next year, but, but I think, uh, I, I'm a firmbeliever that if you do a good job
and you are honest and hardworking and you goafter it and build good relationships,

(47:17):
which I feel like we've been doing from thebeginning, um, that there's never gonna be a shortage of work for
people like that.
Yeah. Couldn't, couldn't agree more, man.
Um, I'm curious, you know, be- before we, beforewe kicked off, we were kind of talking a little bit, and I
mean, you, you, you know, you brought up theimportance of, of marriage and faith, you know.
So as, as, as somebody who runs a business with,you know, with your wife here, I mean, h- how do you

(47:39):
all manage the, the work/life balance?
Like, what's it, what's it like in the, in theLarsen, you know, household?
Are we, are we coming home to the dinner tableand, and talking shop, or do you guys have some sort of way to
kind of, uh, take a little bit of, uh, you know,personal time separate? How, how do you kind of manage that?
Yeah. Oh, it's such a, it's such a good, um,

(47:59):
lengthy question and answer, I feel like. Butoverall, I feel like we...
I heard a story recently. I was reading a book,and it talked about how the whole idea of a work/life
balance,
um, didn't really come into play until, I think itwas the Industrial Revolution or something like that.
But largely, like, in the agricultural world, youknow, you just worked when the work needed to be

(48:20):
done, and sometimes it was morning 'til night, andsometimes... You know?
So, it, and
it just all kind of landed, it was all integratedinto life.
And so that's kind of how we approach it, wherewe... We'll work nights, we'll work weekends sometimes.
Uh, we'll take breaks to do things in the middleof the day that are house-related or whatever
else. We kind of integrate everything into ourwhole lives, so what we do to,

(48:41):
to create kind of that separation otherwise iswe'll just be really honest with each other, like, "I can't
talk work anymore today." And, you know, or like,"Hey, I got a bunch of work stuff to talk
about. I need an hour, or four hours, or whateverof your time
sometime this week." A- and we just try to be ascommunicative as possible with each other, and that makes a
huge difference. Um,

(49:01):
we've still kind of struggled sometimes with workbecoming just all-consuming, because we both love what
we do, and, and there's always plenty to do.
And, um, one of the things, w- we've been doing,uh, weekly date nights, uh, for quite a while, which
has been just an absolute game-changer on themarriage side of things, 'cause if that falls apart, it all
falls apart, right? So we, we do... Ours isThursday nights, so we'll do, we'll do date

(49:23):
nights, and then every other week...
So every, you know, one week, I'll decide whatwe're gonna do, and it's usually something that where I feel
loved and I feel appreciated, that type of thing.But I'll kind of...
But it just gives me an opportunity to communicatehow...
What I appreciate, what kind of dates Iappreciate. And the next week, we do that for her.
And we just, it's kind of teaching us how to teacheach other, how to love each other, in that, I

(49:45):
guess if, if you want to put it that way.
Um, and then one question we've started to askeach other recently, uh, before every, at the start of every
date night, uh, we'll ask, y- you know, "Whathave, what have I done in the
past week or two
that have made you feel loved and seen?" And, um,
that's created some really fun conversations thathave just helped us to

(50:08):
connect, you know? And it's like... And that's thething, like 'cause it's...
Ships passing in the night is a real thing inmarriage, and just being able to
hardly connect at all but still live in the samehouse, you know?
So the, the goal in those date nights is to reallyconnect, and that question, and doing that
every, every other week, um, every week date nightwith every other week's kind of choosing what

(50:29):
to do is, has just been awesome. That's beenreally good for us in keeping things kind of thriving and
healthy, so.
Man,
that's, uh, that's awesome advice. I'm gonnaactually implement that, uh, right away.
My, my, my wife and I, we, we set out to do weeklydate night and then even put it on the
calendar, but-
Yeah.
... you know, somehow, you know, you got two kids,we just got a puppy.
Like, it's so easy to, to kind of justdeprioritize, you know, each other, and,

(50:52):
and, and we've been struggling to, to figure outhow do we kind of get back on track with that.
And, and I love that question. So it was, youknow, what have I done in the past week or two that has
made you feel love? Is that-
Mm-hmm.
... is that right?
Yep, exactly. Yeah, dude, 'cause that's... It's...
What's so cool is
she's... I... She wears her emotions on hersleeve.
I know what she's thinking, I know what she'sfeeling just by looking at her, 'cause that's just who she is.

(51:14):
So she's a lot easier to read on that front. I'mnot.
I'm completely in my head unless somebody asks me.
So, (laughs) so it's... But y- all around, it'sstill been enlightening for
me too to ask the question,
because she'll tell me things that...
And I'm like, "Oh, wow, you appreciated that morethan,
more than what I did over here." And, you know,it's just, it's just-

(51:35):
(laughs)
It help... And it's been helping me more and moreto show her love, because I'm continuously
learning
how specifically she feels love, right? And, um,so yeah, that's just...
It's been really, it's been really helpful andrewarding, and it's shown up in our work.
Back in the business, it's we're kind of... We'reboth feeling more lively. We're feeling connected.
We're laughing more. Just since asking,integrating that question into our date nights has

(51:59):
just been a really cool thing.
Man, that's, that's awesome. And, and, and I thinktoo, you know, what, what I sense is that you guys have,
you know, very intentional and, and really strongcommunication, you know, with each other.
And, and, and I think that, you know, again,that's, that's so important at, at home, but also in the
workplace. And, and, and I think when people...You know, a- again, like things are gonna come up.

(52:19):
Feelings are gonna come up, emotions-
Mm-hmm.
... situations, and it's so important that, youknow, as leaders, you know, you, you take the time
to stop and, and ask people, you know, "How areyou doing? You know, what, what's on your mind?
Like, is there something that's-"
Mm-hmm.
"... you know, that's bothering you? Is there away that I can help you?" Like, you know, what...
Just having that open and honest communication,that's so important I think with, with, with

(52:39):
everything in life, right?
Mm-hmm. So true.
Like, just being able to communicate is, is, is...
It's often, I think, up, uh, up front can be sortof this, like, awkward, challenging thing, at least...
Maybe for some people, if you're naturally, like,an introvert, you know, and, and, and kind of just the
small talk and conversation-
Yeah.
... isn't always as easy. You know, it, it, it's,it's so valuable, though, and it's so

(53:00):
insightful when you can learn to be able to dothat and to have those tough conversations.
And ultimately, when done right, like, everyonewalks away feeling so much better because
they've got that, you know, the, the things liftedoff their shoulders and off their chest, and, like-
Mm-hmm.
... you don't have to walk around kind of, youknow, upset and angry because you were able to bring it out and
have that conversation and, and, and figure outhow to move forward.

(53:21):
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so true. And, and it's likethere's, there's a,
there's a, there's a
building process to a life, right? And it... Soit's like there's... And, and I, I think there's...
For me, foundation, there's, there's faith,there's my marriage, there's just
this important stuff where if that's cracking andfalling apart,

(53:44):
I feel like every... I feel like my whole world'sfalling apart, right? And then...
And, and business is up higher, right?
So there's kind of like this whole, this wholelayering process of, of like, man,
take care of you. Take care of your health, andtake care of your relationships, especially the
most important ones. And be okay letting othersgo, especially on this journey. Like, it's like, it's...

(54:04):
We can't be close with everybody. We can't have100 best friends, right?
And, and you can maybe kind of get away with thatas you're...
when you're a kid and,
you know, and teenager and kind of growing up, orand, and maybe in some circles
in ways as an adult. But especially when you'reout taking risks and building something
and doing this type of thing, like, you, you, yougotta have just a few close

(54:28):
people, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and take care of those relationships,take care of you, all of this type of stuff, and
that's, that's where it builds. That's where itreally starts to feel, feel good.
Freedom isn't being able to do everything youwant.
Freedom is
feeling at peace
doing what you want to do, right? So it's likethere's...
If you can feel like you're seen and known andloved by the piece...

(54:49):
by the people around you, and you're going aftersomething you're passionate about, like, th-
there's, there's no better feeling of freedom thanthat, you know? It's, uh, yeah.
I could talk a while on all that stuff, if youcan't tell.
(laughs)
Well...
Man, that's, that's, that's awesome, man. And it,and it's so insightful.
I mean, this, this whole conversation has been,you know, really great. I'm, I'm kind of curious here.
As, as we wrap up, I mean, i- is there anything,you know, in particular, any, any advice that you could

(55:14):
give for others out there who may be earlier on intheir journey, they're trying to decide whether
they should start their own business or if theyshould...
You know, maybe they got one foot on the tools,one foot in the business, like how to kind of navigate some of
these early challenges. Like, just anything, like,you wish you would have known, you know, back
when, when you were starting that, that you nowknow that, that might help somebody else, you know,

(55:34):
hopefully skip over a couple of those hard knocks,those lessons that-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, that, that you had to learn?
Oh, man. There's a, there's so many of 'em, somany lessons, but the ones that come, that pop up to mind,
um,
know who you are,
right? And, and don't try to do somebody else'sjourney, and don't try to have somebody else's goals.
Like, really figure out who you are and what kindof life you want to have,

(55:58):
and get a vision for it so that you're aiming. Imean, otherwise, 'cause it really... There...
I feel like especially when you're...
You can get out on your own and be like, "I wannastart a business and I want it to be in construction, and I want
it generally to be like this." But you can stillgo a thousand different ways
in that. So the more focused you can get,
the more... And, and get a vision for five years,for 10 years from now.

(56:20):
Just figure out what you want it to look like andstart to make decisions to go after
that. And just like I said, take care of you. Youknow? It's like, you just, you just have to.
Put your o- oxygen mask on first, then you can gohelp other people.
It's the whole idea of if you don't have...
If you're not in good
standing with yourself, and n- in good health, allthat type of stuff, then, then you can't do anything.

(56:43):
So take care of you, get a vision, and go afterit.
Um, and don't try to do somebody else's journey.Don't try to be someone else. It's just not worth it.
And it's not fun. It takes all the joy out of it,you know?
And it's like, like, man, be happy and do that byfiguring out who you are
and, and going after what you want, so.
And that's awesome, Luke. Seriously, like, uh,(laughs) I, I, I can tell that, you know,

(57:06):
you, you truly
know that, and believe that, and have-
Mm-hmm.
... have figured that out. You know, i- i- it's,it's such great advice.
I mean, life is just too short to not do what youlove and, and, and being
able to do it with the people that you love andthat you want, you know, to, to get up every single day
excited. You know, they just... You, you gottafigure out how to put yourself in that

(57:28):
position and take care of yourself and make surethat every day, you are excited to
go and conquer the world. And if you're not, thenyou gotta, you gotta take a step aside, look
in, and say, "Man, wha- what do I need to change?"
Yeah.
"What do I need to do to get into that position?"Because again, we've only got one life, one
opportunity here. I mean, you gotta figure out howto get there.
And, and, and it's coming through loud and clear.

(57:49):
Like, I can tell-
Mm-hmm.
... how passionate and how excited you are, andyou've got that love for, for your work, for your wife-
Mm-hmm.
... for your faith. Like, you know, again, you,you've got it dialed in, Luke.
So I, I really appreciate you coming on and, andsharing this story, and, and kinda opening
up with everyone out there about the challengesthat you've had.
And it's, it's just been really exciting to, to beable to kinda watch just here as a, you know, li- little,

(58:09):
little guy on the side, you know, being able tojust see how you have created this.
But, you know, you, you've done a great job.
You're setting, you know, your, your company up asa role model for others, that they can learn from and
continue to build and improve their business.
So just wanna-
Mm-hmm.
... thank you for, for coming on, for sharingthis, and being part of this community.
Oh, wow. Man, thank you so much. It's s- so fun.So glad to be here.

(58:30):
We're huge, huge fan of yours too, and of, of yourwhole team.
You guys are just incredible, and, uh, and such asupport to, to the contracting
industry in a huge way. And we're, um, we're sograteful. So thanks for having me here. This has been a blast.
Absolutely. See ya, Luke.
Yeah. See ya.
(heavy metal music) Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gainedvaluable insights that can help you in your

(58:54):
journey along the way. Don't forget to subscribeto this show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone you know has astory to share, please contact
us at builderstories.com. We'd love to hear fromyou.
I'm Erik Fortenberry, and remember, every builderhas a unique story.
Keep building yours.