I Don’t Care What I Do, As Long As It’s One Thing | Joe Averill with Deck Science

Meet Joe Averill, owner of Deck Science based in Elk River, Minnesota. Joe shares his unconventional journey from studying to become a physician's assistant to building a thriving deck construction business. Learn how a solo road trip and a frustrating experience in commercial construction led him to hyper-specialize in decks, creating a streamlined, customer-focused process that sets Deck Science apart. Joe dives into the importance of simplicity in offerings, the power of personalization in sales and customer relationships, and how leveraging technology has helped him scale efficiently.

 

 

Here are some of the key takeaways from our discussion with Joe:

• Building a focused, scalable business
• Creating strong customer relationships
• Investing in sales training and personal growth

 

Learn more about Deck Science here: https://www.deckscience.com/

 

 

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
... welcome to the podcast where wetake a deep dive
into the stories behind construction business leaders. Wewill share how they got started, how they
found success, and the lessons learned along theway. I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
How's it going, everybody? I amexcited to be here

(00:21):
with Joe Averill. He is the ownerof Deck Science.
They are located in Elk River, uh, Minnesota. So, we, we gotsomeone, uh, who is, I think, uh, you said in below
seven-degree weather right now. Uh, I, I
know we, uh, we had a, a, a Job Tread event, I think, lastweek or the week before, well, where, uh, Joe
came out, you know, got to spend some timewith our team. But, uh,

(00:43):
lit- little background on Joe, cool thing,we, we've actually, uh,
known each other for a few years now. Met Joe, I think itwas back in 2023 at the Mile High Profits
Summit. You know, awesome guy,doing some really
great work. You know, they, theyexclusively focus on decks, so
I'm real excited to finally get Joe here on,
on this, on, uh, on the show. You know, wannawelcome you to Builder Stories, Joe.
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'mreally excited. Just a-

(01:04):
Yeah.
... just another deck guy.
(laughs) Well, hey, look, we're, we're,we're glad to have you. So
why don't you give us a little bit ofbackground? I mean, h-
how did you get into, to building decks to begin with? What,what led to, to you starting your company?
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a long story, but if I rewind. So I'm,I'm 26 right now, but, um, it all kind of started

(01:24):
back when I was in college. So Iwas actually, like,
in school to be a physician's assistant and,like, everything was on track. Was
doing good grades, whatever. But,like, halfway through my
junior year, I was starting to getwork experience
and it was the worst job of my life. Like, itwas a miserable couple of months.
So it, it took me a while, but halfway through myjunior year, I actually left college. And

(01:47):
it was
probably top three worst days ofmy life. Like,
skipped my morning class, packed everything
up, didn't tell any of my buddies that I livedwith, and just went home. And
then when I got home, probably cried for a good half hourjust 'cause, I mean, you felt like an absolute
failure, you know,
leaving school. Um,

(02:07):
so long story short, we got over that. Um,
started working with my dad's company, so he's acommercial GC. Kind of a smaller
company. Um, so I did that for,like, two years
and was just
getting frustrated with how lifewas going basically.
Um,
so I went on, like, and this is kind of weird,but I went on, like, a one-week
road trip by myself to just clearmy thoughts, right?

(02:30):
So went out to Montana from Minnesota, justlistening to, like, business
podcasts the whole time, you know. Just trying to, like,get ideas, what am I gonna do? And it was
day seven on the ride back where it, like,crystallized for me, like,
I just, I don't care what I'm gonna do.As long as it's one thing
and it's, it's... I d- I don't wantmoving parts. Like,

(02:52):
'cause working for a commercial GC, everything'scustom, everything's different, and
I, I just couldn't deal with it. Sothat's how I ended up on
decks. It was one thing, it fit that, um,profile, and I got super lucky too
'cause my first year, my best friend,he had a fence and
deck company. And when I was trying to start my ownthing is when they were dropping decks

(03:14):
to focus on fences.
So they were still getting deck leads, so I was able to buythose. So I actually owe that guy, like,
everything for my first year.
(laughs)
That was probably, like, 90% of ourfirst year leads.
Wow.
Super lucky, yeah.
Yeah, so, so you just, like,
he, he had, I guess, the website and the leads and everythingcoming in, but just didn't want to do them.
Exactly.
So, like, what, how'd you decide? W- what, what'd youpay him? I mean, was it, like, 50 bucks?

(03:38):
Yeah.
100 bucks?
Yeah. No, it was a super good deal too'cause I only had to pay him
when I, if I closed the deal. So I only had topay him if I got the money.
Oh, wow.
Um, and it was, like, it's, like, 250 or2%, whatever was higher.
So-
Nice.
... super cheap.
All right. Well, hey, that's, uh,
that's, that's a great way to, to figure outwhat you wanted to do. I mean, I-
Yeah.
... that's the... Funny enough, most people don'tknow about me, but I actually, uh,

(03:59):
I w- I went into my undergrad as, uh, mechanicalengineering. And I think it was, like, my
s- it was my third semester, sofirst, first semester
my, uh, my sophomore year. And I was just, like,totally overwhelmed. I was in, like,
thermodynamics, statics, physics II. Like,
I couldn't finish any of the exams. I was like,"What in the world is happening here?"
And I ended up withdrawing from, uh, from theengineering school as well. Took, uh,

(04:21):
took the rest of the semester off. I, I literally justplayed poker for an entire semester.
(laughs)
And, uh-
I should've done that.
... I di- I did end up going back. I transferredinto, uh, into the business school
my, my, I guess what would've been my third year of college and,and ended up, uh, finishing up over there. But
yeah, I mean, I, I feel you, man.Like, when you get into
something and you realize, like, this isjust not my jam. Like, not-
Yeah.
... you know, I am not happy, I'm struggling,like, something isn't right.

(04:42):
You know, you gotta make achange. So, you know,
kudos to you for, you know, for,for being able
to, to make that tough call. I mean, it's, youknow, no, it's, it's, it's very
hard sometimes to, to realize that, hey, you know, this,this is a sunk cost. Like, I need to just-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, figure something else out.Um, so, you know, I, I,
I can imagine how tough that was, but-
Yeah, yeah.
... but-
It felt impossible.
(laughs) Yeah. You know, I've, I've, I've heard those, uh,those, those solo trips are pretty, uh,

(05:06):
pretty enlightening. I, I haven'tdone one myself. Uh,
my, my, my wife, she, when, right after we met, she ended up,uh, moving to Spain for a year to go teach-
Mm-hmm.
... uh, teach, uh, English tokindergartners. But
she, uh, she did a lot of them. Said it was just, like, some ofthe greatest time. Like, you really can just
clear your head and have all sortsof, you know, kind of
just epiphanies just like when you're, when you're in yourown space, not worried about anything else. So

(05:27):
sounds like that worked out well for you.
Yeah, 1,000%. You gotta get out onthe road there.
(laughs) Yeah.
So, so decks though, I mean, you know,uh, going from commercial
general contracting, you know, to, todecks. I mean, that, that,
that's a really kind of, I'd say fairlybig shift, but a very
focused and intentional shift, which,
you know, I think was really smart of you. I mean,uh, you know, being able to just

(05:49):
hone in on one trade and do one thinggreat, you know, is, is a
really good move, especially early on. You know,you needed to know, like, you know,
what can I market myself on? What can I
build this brand on and what can Ido great? And so
you, you got into decks. Did... But wasthis, like, your first
real
experience building decks or, like, did you dosome building of decks before?

(06:10):
No, I mean, the beauty of a deck is, like, thebuilding of it's kind of the easy part.
Especially, like, I, I was doing, like, like,tenant finish-outs, remodels, like,
more complicated, more moving parts. So the building of thedeck is the easy part, which is awesome, but
yeah, to your point of, like, niching down.I kinda swung the pendulum
really far the other way. So not only dowe just do decks, like,

(06:30):
there's a million deck brands, there's a milliondeck boards, there's a million colors.
We literally just work with one brand.
We only offer three qualities, eventhough they have, like, five
tiers. We only offer three, just agood, better, best.
And we only show them three colors, even thoughthey might have five colors.
So we try to keep it as simple as possible.
If, obviously, the customer findssomething else they like, we can
source it, but we try to keep it as simple aspossible 'cause there's, um,

(06:53):
you know the, the ice cream parlor study?
Yep.
Are you familiar with that one? Or, I can-
Uh-
... I can go... I can go.
I think you're good.
You prob- Yeah, you probably arefamiliar with it, but
I heard this and this is what inspired me. It's basically,like, they did, like, an actual study on, um,
people making choices at an icecream parlor. So
when you, when they went into an ice cream parlor andthere was, like, 12 different flavors,

(07:14):
on average, people took longer to decide
and they were less satisfied withtheir ultimate choice
'cause they were just like, "Oh, that otherone might've been better."
But when there was just chocolate, vanilla, andstrawberry, people chose quicker
and they were more satisfied. So ifmy goal as a builder
is to make my client as satisfied as possible, that seems likepretty good evidence to, or reasoning to offer

(07:37):
less choices, as counterintuitive as it seems, becauseI know most deck builders are, like,
you know, sometimes even build outl-
(clears throat)
... like, a crazy custom trailer with every singlesample under the sun and it's just-
No.
It can be overwhelming.
Yeah. No, that's, that's great. You know, I've,I've definitely... I, I know
too. I mean, same thing goes withpricing. If you give people-
Mm-hmm.
... three choices, you know, let'ssay, you know, the, the,
the cheapest, you know, middle of the road, andthe most expensive, you know,

(08:00):
the majority of the time, they're gonna choosethat middle of the road price.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's, it's, it's good to, you know,
kind of give fewer choices and options. Uh,just like you said, it, it
helps them feel more confident, more easily make a decisionversus, you know, you can get, you know, o-
... if, if you give them every option under the sun, like,you know, it could just, like, be, you know,
debilitating and they just can'tmake any choice-
Yeah.
... and you can't move forward.

(08:20):
Yeah. 1,000%. And that's exactly how our job tradeproposals are laid out, where it's just
demolition is one thing, framing is one thing, decking,here's your good, better, best, you pick.
Yeah.
And then the railings, we typicallyonly work with one
style, so they only have one option, sometimes twooptions for the railing, and that's it.
Sure. Do, do you have a, uh, a go-tomanufacturer that, that you like?

(08:41):
For the railings or the decking?
Uh, both.
Yeah, for the decking, we use theTimberTech. Um, I mean,
comparable between that and Trex. Some peoplehave their opinions, but whatever.
Um, the reason I like TimberTech is, as we go up thosequality levels, the colors were the same.
Hmm.
So you can pretty clearly show a client,
like, "Hey, this is good, better, best

(09:03):
of..." But they're going for the same thing with thiscolor, but you can see how it gets better
as you go up. Whereas with the Trex, as you go up lines,it's totally new colors every time, and it was
harder to lay out clearly. Um, and then therailing, we used, uh, or
mainly used this brand called Westbury. They'rereally popular in the Midwest. I don't
know about the rest of the country, but it's justbasically, um, an aluminum powder-coated railing.

(09:27):
Sure.
But that's-
So you said... Yeah. So, well, I'm, I'mcurious. So you said you're 26 now.
Yeah.
When did you start the business? How,how old were you then?
Oh. I don't know exactly. I think we wrappedup... 2022, I started, so-
Okay.
Maybe '23, something like that.
S- s- so very young, uh, you know, to, to start yourown business. That's, that's awesome-

(09:49):
Yeah.
... uh, you know, to, to, to seeyou do that. I mean,
what would you say, like, what were the hardestthings that, you know, you, you,
you didn't quite anticipate going into it?
That is a super good question.
Uh, some of the hardest things that Ididn't anticipate?
It's probably once you get, like...

(10:10):
Here's what it was.
It was getting off the tools, thatwas the hardest thing.
I was, I said that was my goal for over a yearbefore it actually happened.
Hm.
And I've still been guilty of it thelast year or two,
where I had to go out there once ortwice, you know.
That was probably the hardest jump, 'causethere's a lot of trust you gotta
lend out to people that you aren't used to
doing that. And you take so much pride in the thingyou create, so to pass that off-

(10:34):
Huh.
... to somebody was really tough.
But after the first probably
three or four months not being on the tools, I kinda calmeddown finally. It just took a little bit.
Yeah. So h-
For sure.
... how long were you, were youactually doing the builds?
Uh, probably the first
two years, I'd say, and then the last oneyear, haven't been on it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think as, asentrepreneurs, right, it's, it's

(10:55):
just a natural tendency that, that we wanna
wear every hat, we wanna do everything, 'cause weknow that we're gonna do it the best.
You know, we have this assumptionthat nobody can, can-
Mm-hmm.
... come anywhere close, and that, you know, thebusiness will, will fail if we
give up this control. You know, so h- how do
you... You know, what, what helped you actually finally get offthe tools? I mean, it sounds like you knew at
a certain point going in, probably maybe,like, a year in, but like,

(11:17):
you knew you made a, you needed to make a change. Like, what,what helped you sort of realize that? And then
what was the catalyst that actually, you know,a year later you were able-
Yeah.
... to do it?
Yeah. I mean, to the first question,what made me realize it,
I don't know if there's anything that made merealize it. I always just knew, like,
I wanted to grow a bigger company. And to do that, I don'tthink you can stay on the tools forever.

(11:39):
Um,
but how I did it, it was more of like a weaning offprocess, I guess. One, it helped that
the guys that were, like, working directly with methe previous almost a year, they just
b- took over what I was doing basically. So Iknew they had a lot of experience.
And then it really helped too the first fewjobs to just do my paperwork,

(12:00):
like, in the truck
at the job site.
Mm-hmm.
So if I was, like, freaking out or they had aquestion, I was just still there.
Yeah.
Yeah. But after about two jobs, we wereable to get past that.
Gotcha. So, you know, you, you talkabout these guys. Like,
early on, were, d- did you hire full-timeemployees? Did you, did you
subcontract them? Like, how did you find these,these people to help you do the work?

(12:21):
Yeah. So I had, like, a young guy constructioncompany, so it was literally just hired my
younger brother's friends.
Okay.
'Cause they needed a job in the summer.(laughs) And then they ended
up, I don't know how they ended up stayingwith me for a full year.
I think, yeah, like one of them was trying to getinto a HVAC program and they just
got too full and didn't accept them for the year,so we just kept building decks.

(12:43):
So that's how-
Nice.
Yeah.
So were they... Like, did you bringthem on as employees?
Yeah, full-time employees. Yeah.
Full-time employees? Okay.
Yep, yep. Exactly. Paying workcomp, everything.
What's your model look like today? Like, do you,are, are they, you still have all
full-time employees? How manypeople do you have?
Yeah, now it's kinda hybrid. So we still have thein-house crew, so they're able to do, like,

(13:03):
one-off jobs, random stuff, runthings around.
Um, but to deal with, like, the influxin the summertime, we
work with s- couple of, uh,subcontractors to help with that.
Okay.
H- how have you, uh, like, what's, what would you say hasbeen the difference of working with, you know,
your, your in-house guys versusyour subcontractors?
'Cause I hear a lot of people, they, youknow, they kinda... You know,
there's, there's this big debate,like, you know-

(13:25):
Yeah.
... I, I only want my own guys, or Ionly wanna use subs, and
you know, there, there's the pros and cons of both, so I'mkinda curious what, what your experience has been.
Yeah. I, I love... The thing I love about the subsis, at the start, our cost is set.
So I know
my t- material cost is set, now I knowmy labor cost is set.
Before the job starts, I know how profitable we're gonnabe. There's not really any surprises.

(13:47):
Yeah.
So I love that.
Um, the downside is, like I wassaying, one-off stuff.
Like, if they wanna... Like, a half a day job to go install somerailings, it's not super easy to sub that out.
Um,
running materials, going to a dump site, um,
little stuff like that is, just doesn't workwith a sub. So that's why I
still like having at least onecrew on site. Or-
Sure.
... on our team. Yeah.

(14:07):
So when you f- when you first kind of got off the tools, w-what did you, you know, what did you focus on
initially with, you know, kind of essentially everythingon the business side? I mean, did you go
full bore sales, you know, kind ofproject management, eh,
the back office accounting? Like, how did youkind of, how did all of these
functions sort of come to be that, you know,I'm sure are probably, uh,

(14:28):
more flushed out today than theywere early on?
Yeah. So a lot of, uh... Basically,all the marketing
is, is not something that we take care of, so we workwith a lot of agencies for that. So
my roles were sales, project management, and thenwhen I was on the tools, production.
So the sales and the project managementwas just getting so much
that I kinda had to drop productionjust to keep up with it.

(14:50):
Yeah.
So I was still full time just focusing on two thingsnow. And now I'm kind of at the next
level where I'm trying to find aproject manager,
'cause I can't hardly keep up with the sales andall the leads that are coming in.
Um, so now I'm at that second level of, like,
it's scary to let go of theproject management and
dealing with the customer and making sureeverything works out perfectly, so

(15:11):
that's something I'm trying tofigure out right now.
Yeah. That's great. So would you say,you know, were, ar- ar-
have you always just been comfortable doing
sales, or, you know, was that a, was that anuncomfortable thing that you hadn't done?
Absolutely not, no.
(laughs)
(laughs) I'm horrible.
I'm the type of guy who, when I was a kid, like, my parents wouldgive me money to go into a gas station to buy a
snack, and I was too scared to talk to the clerk, soI wouldn't go in and buy anything.

(15:33):
(laughs) So no, not natural at it at all. Um, but I spent a lotof time doing, like, different sales training.
Um,
basically, every year, I do lots and lots and lots ofsales training and lots and lots of
talking to people. Um, so that hashelped me a ton,
a- by just putting money into sales training.
Um,
and then now that I'm, like, you know,two, three years in,

(15:54):
you meet, I don't know,
500 different customers or whatever, it starts todesensitize you, so, (laughs) so-
Yeah.
... I'm not as nervous anymore.
(laughs)
So you just get over it, basically. You justkeep going and you get over it.
Yeah. It's, it's funny, a l- a l- a lot of people probablydon't know this about me though. I mean,
I was, like, definitely super introverted,
uh, still not the guy that loves a bunch of littlesmall talk and can't just, you know,

(16:15):
be totally, uh, comfortable having these, youknow, random conversations about,
n- you know, what I think is, like, nothing.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you know, I- it, it-
It was, it was interesting though, like,you know, e- early on in my
first company and, you know, samething here, like, you
know, when, when we go out and we do conferencingand trade shows, like, you know,
you're, you're essentially just thrown to the wolves. Andpeople just keep walking up and you have no choice

(16:36):
but to interact and to talk and to, you know, engage. Andit's like, you know, just like you said, like
after enough reps, it just becomes second nature.It's, you know, super easy. I had-
No.
... no qualms. I mean, even public speaking, right?Like, I remember my first, you know,
couple times, and I used to travelall around the country
talking to, uh, to colleges anduniversities and like,
you know, you get the shakes and you're allworried about public speaking. But now
it's like, ah, it's just a, you know, i- i- i- it's, it'sa second nature. But it definitely takes,

(16:59):
takes a lot, you know, and, and, and it can reallybe, uh... internally, it can be
quite the struggle to, to kinda getused to it. Uh, but
yeah. You know, with enough reps, enough practice,enough experience, you know, I think anyone
can, can develop those, those skills.
Yeah. It's a big obstacle to get over. And I-
(laughs)
... can't even imagine trying to go on stage likeyou do, so (laughs) props. (laughs)
Yeah. I mean, so y- you talkedabout, though, yo-

(17:22):
you've invested, you know, in yourself and,and in training and, and-
Yeah.
... specifically it sounds like salestraining. I mean, you know, i- i-
and it sounds like you've made a considerable investment inthat. You know, I know a lot of people, you know,
they, they, you know, one, they probably
just don't even know that that's an option, have neverthought about it or considered it, you know.
So obviously, kinda hearing how you've, you've done that andhow it's impacted you, you know, is great.

(17:43):
Mm-hmm.
But like two, you know, I also hear a bunchof people say, "Ah, you know,
I'm, I'm, I'm too small. I'm too early on. Ican't afford it." You know, like,
did, did you... you know, were you at a positionwhere like you're like, "Man, like
this is, this is gonna be expensive. I don'tknow if I can afford it."
You know, h- how did you make, you know, thedecision to invest in that-
Mm-hmm.
... training and that coaching andlike, you know,

(18:04):
'cause th- it's just a hugestruggle for so many
people and it's like that chicken and theegg problem, right? Like-
Yeah.
... I know I need to get great at sales, but
I don't have any sales so I can't invest in getting better.You know, how did you kind of overcome that?
The first one's the toughest, by far. Um,
at the start, I was... it had probably spent sixmonths just diving into, like,

(18:24):
free trainings online and stuff like that, um, toget your feet wet a little bit.
But the main theme was, like, if I had any extramoney, like I... so if I back up,
I kinda shamelessly, I want to makemore money. Like,
that's my goal. So where... if I have a little bit of extramoney, where can I put it to get the best return? Um,
and if I back up even more, I thought that used tobe, like, real estate stuff for me.

(18:48):
So when I dropped outta school, um, I started likewholesaling and stuff on the side.
I didn't have the sales skills at thetime to make that work, but
I still did, and I recommend this to any young people outthere listening, I did do a house hack which is a
huge reason that helped me start thisbusiness in the first place. So
I bought, like, my first housewith, you know,
FHA loan, 3.5% down, did the whole thing whereyou rent out the rooms. And now I

(19:11):
wiped out my biggest expense and actually make like 200bucks a month to live there. So highly-
Good.
... recommend that if you're young. Um,
but anyways, so the originalquestion, how do I
get over the first hump of buyingsome sort of training.
I basically...
I had like... it was like $6500 or whatever,for a year, which is pretty low,

(19:33):
um, to what I'm spending now. But
I kinda just writ it off, wrote it off, like if thisturns into nothing, fine, but I can't just
keep trying to learn off of YouTubeUniversity. Like, I want more.
Um, so I wrote it off as just being gone.
Um, but after I spent that first $6500, and I'll neverforget this, it was almost exactly a month later

(19:55):
that I got a job
that I absolutely would not have gotten unless Ihad (laughs) joined that program.
And that
profit from that job was like sevengrand, one month later.
Wow.
And I don't know if everybody will-
(clears throat)
... experience something like that, but, um,that was super reinforcing.
What... I mean, what-
'Cause it-
Wh- what do you think it was, though? I mean, likewas it like you, you had learned-

(20:18):
Yeah.
... a tactic or a, you know
(laughs) , a word track or how to handleobjections or like what-
So this is when I was super new still, like firstyear. So it was just like going from
no sales process at all and just like
barely replying over text or email to customers to like nowlet's call them. Let's call them right away.
(laughs) Let's hear about theirpain a little bit.

(20:39):
(laughs) Let's talk about what they're looking forand then actually go out there.
Um, so at the start, it was super basic stuff
that helped a lot, and now I just pay more formore advanced things, basically.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, Ithink, again, it's, uh,
it's something that
people don't often realize that, you know,and, and I would say not just
for, you know, for, for earlyyoung people. I mean,
sometimes there's people who've been doing thisfor 10, 20, 30 years and they feel-

(21:01):
Mm-hmm.
... like, "Oh, you know, I've, I've been doing this. I knowhow to do it." And they're just, you know...
the reality is they're kinda stuck in their ways and, and theremay be other ways or better ways or new ways-
Yup.
... you know, of, of, of accomplishing, you know,whatever it may be from, you know,
sales to, to team building andrecruiting to, you know,
managing people. I mean, there's,there's, there's so
many different avenues that I thinkpeople can really
benefit from, you know, gettingcoaching and investing-

(21:24):
Mm-hmm.
... in themselves and their own development. You know,it's, it's such an important thing. And
you know, just like, just like with you, Joe, I mean, I,you know, I, I see firsthand like the impact
when people join these, thesegroups and they, and,
and they invest in themselves and theyinvest in their team.
You know, it's like, you know,you can almost...
I mean, it's, you know, I wouldn't sayit's like, you know, month
one, sometimes month two, but like,you know, in the first
quarter, like you, you just start to see the trajectoryof their business. Like it starts like-

(21:47):
Yup.
... going up versus like they could've been doing thesame thing for the last, you know,
couple of years and it's just sort of, you know, they, they,they get to this point where they sort of flatline
and, you know, you gotta do something
different. You gotta keep investing in yourself. I, Ithink that's one of the most important
things for, you know, for a good leader and entrepreneurs and,you know, is, is just continually, you know,
uh, re- relook at what can you do to improve. You know,it doesn't mean like you have to change

(22:10):
everything, but it's those small, you know,incremental improvements
over time. You know, and I think like, s- youknow, you, you can't just accept
status quo just 'cause it's thecomfortable thing, right?
Yup.
Like it's like what else can we do? How can weimprove? You know, how do you go from
good to great? And, you know, it sounds likeyou've, you've really unlocked that
and, you know, to the point where it... you're continuing toinvest in yourself. You're continuing to,

(22:31):
to spend more and more, you know, on this, this,this learning and development.
So, you know, dude, that's, that's awesome.
Yeah. And I think if we take that feeling oflike, oh, what if this is a scam, or
oh, I know everything,
I think everybody probably feels that,especially other contractors.
So if you, in your area, are the one that can
get over that feeling, well nobody else isgetting over the feeling. So there's

(22:54):
one very clear competitive advantage, is justbeing able to get over that fear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
So
when did you figure out, like,that you needed
systems and, and, and, and processes? I mean,obviously you're, you're using
JobTred. I don't know what you wereusing before. But like
at what point did you, did youkinda figure out like,
you know... or, or, or tell us. I mean, h- howdid you, how did you do it?

(23:16):
Yeah.
Were you pen and paper, youknow, spreadsheets?
So before... I started right away with the jobmanagement software, but it was a different one.
And it was more based around, like, uh, likeservice-based businesses, like
cleaning companies, pressure washing companies. So itdidn't work as good for building out
more complex proposals and templates.
Um,
regrettably though, there was a goodyear where I first

(23:36):
heard of JobTred until I actuallyjoined JobTread. (laughs)
So I was kicking myself for that f-... uh,
once I finally did join, I was kicking myself forthat year that I did not join. Um,
sorry, what was the original questionthough? Start over.
Yeah. I'm just curious kinda like so, so it sounds like,you know, you, you did sort of figure out
no early on. You, you neededsomething in place which-
Yup.
... you know, again, a lot of people don't, don'trealize that. So maybe like w- what

(23:58):
was the... you know, what wouldyou say the impact
of having a system has, you know, has,has made on your business?
It's way easier to pass things off as I'mtrying to jump up levels.
And having everything in like oneplace within JobTred
has just been monumentally helpful, 'cause I don't haveto like... we upload all our files to the
job. I don't have to look forpermits or plans.

(24:19):
I don't have to resend... Like I don't have totext my guys anymore the address
the night before at 6:00 PM. I don't have to sendthem the address for tomorrow.
You know, they just know to go into JobTred andthen clock in when we get there. Um,
so that's super helpful.And then thebiggest thing, too, that I love
about JobTrit is I was doing jobcosting just by hand
before with other software, which meant Iwasn't doing it very much

(24:44):
and very consistently. So now justbeing able to upload
costs, receipts, track hours within there, um,means that every single job gets
job costed, and it's way quicker. So that extradata has been super helpful.
Nice. Do you, you know,
do you incorporate it into the salesprocess? Like is it a-
Mm-hmm.
... is it a differentiator for you?
Yeah. The proposals in particular, like how we can add theextra pictures, the options and everything. Um,

(25:10):
I just had a Zoom presentation with acustomer yesterday
where she got a little frustrated 'cause...
So how our sales process works is like
lead reaches out. We do a phone call, we meet on site,and then we do a Zoom presentation.
And she was expecting me to just send
the bid to her before our Zoom call.
And she got kind of frustrated when we jumped onthe call like, "Yeah, I wished

(25:32):
you would have just sent me it and I'll... ifI have questions, we'll talk
about it on the Zoom call." But by the time we weredone, she's like, "Oh, okay. I, I
get it. I'm so sorry (laughs) I was kindof snippy at the start.
Um, yeah, I see why we needed to do the Zoom call.This is like way more in-depth and
way better than any of the other ones that I've seen, so thankyou actually." So it ended up working out. Um,
but yeah, that's the biggest thing ourcustomers like the most, um,

(25:53):
is the differentiation in theproposal itself.
Um,
kind of side note here, but I've hadmy... I don't know
if this is unethical or not, but I'vehad (laughs) my brother
invite all my competition to his house
to give them a bid on his deck.So I know what
all the other ones look like in our area, and theyjust look like spreadsheets, like Excel
spreadsheets or Word docs with no pictures. They're superconfusing. Um, so it's pretty easy to beat that.

(26:18):
Nice. Yeah, look, man. It's, uh, yougotta know your competition.
(laughs) Yeah, we definitely need to know.
Uh, so, so however, however you, you know, youfigure that out, but, you know, I, I
do think it's, it's important like, like you said, thatyou have a process. You know what works
for, for you, for your business. You know what leads, youknow, the, the, the prospect down the path
to get them to that optimal, you know, satisfied, we'reready to move forward with you. So, you know,

(26:42):
sometimes when, when, when, when yourprospects want to sort of
deviate from that and you know it's not best, it's goodthat you, you know, you, you reinforce and
hold the line and say, "Look, this isour process. This is how
we need to move forward." And, you know, at the endof the day, you know, they, they
have that realization on why, butthey don't always
know that going in. And that's where I thinkthat education is really helpful.
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure.
So, so you said that y- you do an initial

(27:04):
Zoom call, which, which is great. I mean, I, you know, I, Ithink, you know, to the extent that, you know,
being able to look someone in the eyes and
see them and read their body language,that's a whole lot easier
than, you know, just doing itover the phone and-
Mm-hmm.
... you know, and that's even better than just a, anemail or a text message. Like kind of-
Yeah.
... building those relationshipsis so important.
Do you, like at what point do you go out onsite? Like is that something that

(27:24):
you don't do until after they've, they've signed? Or areyou closing just via Zoom? Or do you go out-
Yeah.
... and do, do an on, on-siteconsultation as well?
Yeah. I'll explain a little further. It, thefirst one's actually a phone
call. So like the lead comes in, and thenthey have to send photos. Uh,
this is all automated by the way,but they send photos.
Um, if they don't send photos, they're put into areminder sequence to get those photos.

(27:45):
Once we have photos, then they have access toschedule a phone call with me. Um,
so high level, this is a pretty high friction
process, but being the only sales guy, I kindof like the extra friction.
Um, weeds out the, the super tire-kickers.
So once we have that phone call, it's just
to learn a little bit more about what
they're looking for, see if we can help, when are they lookingto do it, and it probably weeds out like 20, 25%

(28:08):
of the people that make it tothat stage so that
way I'm not driving to everybody. Um, afterthe phone call, we schedule an
on-site. On-site's your pretty typical on-sitemeeting where we look at samples,
um, get measurements, and then on-sitesometimes I'll do a
3D rendering so they can see it. And then from there,usually within a week we schedule a Zoom call

(28:29):
so that I have a little bit of time to put togetherthe proposal, all the options, and
we just go over it on that Zoom call.And then some people
we close on the Zoom call, some people I justsend them the proposal and
we book a meeting from that meetingto just follow up.
Gotcha. Yeah. So sound, sounds like it'sworking good. I mean, do you-
Yeah.
... do you feel like, uh,
do, do you feel like you're often competing against other,other deck builders? Or are you able to,

(28:54):
you know, kind of once you get in there and you get goingdown the path, like you can kind of, you know,
close it down hopefully quickly enough thatthey're not going out shopping?
Yeah, they still are. Most of our customers are getting,you know, the typical three bids, especially
in the last year or two. I think thatwas probably different
in COVID times. If you got out there, you gotthe job type, type of thing.

(29:14):
Yeah.
But
now they are more consistentlygetting three, but,
um,
nobody's doing anything with thishigh level of touch. So
it's super... Like it stands out so muchmore, it's crazy. Um,
two examples is,
one, we just got a, a HOA project, so there'slike 44 decks there. And we were
absolutely not the cheapest, which I wouldhave thought they were only

(29:36):
looking for the cheapest 'cause they're a big HOA, justtrying to save money, but that was not the case.
They went with us 'cause theyliked the process
and they liked, um, how I explained how we're gonnakeep the whole community updated
as the project progresses.
Hm.
And I had the opportunity to explain how we cando that by having a Zoom call.
Um, so they absolutely loved that. Andthen there was another one-

(29:57):
So it's like y- you won 44 decks in one deal?
Yeah, it was awesome. It's a goodstart to the year.
Man, congrats. (laughs) That is awesome.
Yeah, yeah. It was a great start. Um, and there wasanother giant project that we won, um,
and the other person we were bidding against, they even hadlike a decent process. It was similar. Um,
but we were just able to... We, our, our
call was after their call, so we were able to address somethings that they talked about on that one, and they

(30:22):
still went with us even though we werelike seven grand more
on a $60,000 project.
Gotcha. So you're not, you're not coming in
trying to be the cheapest, you know,low-balling them, and you, you know-
Right.
... your numbers, you know your value,and you stick to it.
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
That's awesome. Well, ju- justcurious, what are you using
for, uh, to like take the measurementsand, and even doing, like

(30:43):
if you do a 3D, 3D render, what, whattools are you using there?
Yeah, taking measurements is still just byhand, just tape measure.
Um, I have like a little reMarkable tablet, it'scalled, to just write everything down.
Uh, and then the 3D rendering, we just usethe TimberTech software.
Cool.
It's not super in-depth, so you can't do anythinglike super crazy custom, but for 90%
of what we're doing, it works perfect.

(31:04):
Yeah.
And I, and I can do it in 15 minutesin their driveway.
That's awesome. I mean, you know, it's,it's, you know, and, and I
just had a pool built, and like I think one ofthe things that really helped me
feel comfortable moving forward was when, when they sharedthe designs and being able to visualize-
Mm-hmm.
... exactly what this is gonnalook like in my
backyard. You know, so if you can churn that out in 15 minutes,you know, that's awesome, and it just, again,

(31:27):
it, it helps check off some more of those boxes. Ithelps kind of address, you know, that
uncertainty, 'cause some people, they, they, they're not asgood at visualizing. You know, they've never-
Yeah.
... built a deck. They don't know what-
Yeah.
... to expect, and like the more thatyou can educate them
in the process and help them, youknow, start to see
what it's gonna be like to work with you, like,again, it just, it just helps
lock down those deals, and, youknow, uh, uh, uh,

(31:50):
the sooner you can take them off themarket, you know, the, the,
the deal is yours. So whatever you can do to get themcomfortable, you know, it sounds like you've really
dialed that in and have got avery good process.
Yeah, the homeowners absolutely love it when I do that onsite. One, 'cause nobody else does it.
If they do, that's usually... theycharge for it. And then-
Yeah.
... three, I'm able to do it right there on site. And yeah, toyour point, like I've never met a homeowner

(32:12):
that can somehow visualize a deckthey've never built. (laughs)
(laughs) Yeah.
I- uh, so it's, it's just tough tovisualize for almost everybody.
And are you... So like are you...You're, you're
building out... You're, you're doing thedesign right there. Like
so you're just taking your laptop outthere and doing it?
Yeah, just in my truck.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I mean, are you churning out theproposal at the same time?
Sometimes.

(32:33):
Okay.
So if we want to get into the minutiae, um-

(40:44):
Um, triple that and then make sure youalways answer your phone call.
These are really easy to turn on. You only pay forit if somebody fills out a form
or they call you. Um,
and, uh, from Google's perspective, if you,like, increase your budget a whole
bunch, from Google's perspective,they have this
lead, and they have a bunch of people who wanna pay for it,so who's the most willing to pay for it?

(41:05):
So I'm trying to raise my hand, like, "Hey,we'll pay a lot for this."
And then the other key is, um, obviously alwaysanswer your phone 'cause the AI
will track, um, who's answeringthe phone calls
to actually service the customer. And then if youhave a real customer on the line,
try to have a couple-minute conversation, 'cause theyalso track how long you're on the phone.
Yeah. That-
But those are a really easy one to turn on if anybody outthere has a decent Google Business Page.

(41:27):
Um, just YouTube, uh, GoogleLocal Service Ads.
Get those running.
Yeah. That- Great- great advice. I mean,seriously, like, that-
that is- that is- that is next level right there.You know, and- and I see so many
people that, you know, one, haven't set uptheir Google My Business profile-
Mm-hmm.
... or two, like, they're not continually, like,feeding it. Like, you- you know-
Yeah.
... upload photos of your work. Like, just continually feedthat thing. Google will heavily reward you

(41:51):
when you continue to upload photos, you
continue to get reviews. Like, it's so important,you know, that- that- that you
show them that you're active, you know? And same thing on yourwebsite. Continually add, you know, new- new
pages, new blog posts, like, whatever it may be. Like,they're gonna heavily value the people
who are- are doing that, as well as if you're running ads, you-you know, they- they give even more love. So

(42:11):
the more you can kinda do all of these things together, youknow, it's- it's just so helpful and impactful.
Yeah, and your point of, uh, Iwas updating the
Google page, the Google Business Page. Somebody elsetold me this, but it's so simple.
Treat your Google Business Pagelike it's a social
media page, like you're gonna post updates there, tryto collect reviews, keep it active, um,
keep stuff constantly going there. And if anything, Iwould put more effort on keeping that

(42:34):
active because if- if you think aboutit, are you getting more
leads from your Facebook or Instagramor more leads from
Google? Probably Google. So let's put a lot more timeinto updating that and keeping that active.
Yeah. 100%. So y- you've talkedabout leads a couple
time- or, uh, about reviews a couple times. Like, can youtell us a little bit more, like, what's your,
you know... What do you do to- to get reviews? Imean, is that- is that something-

(42:54):
Yeah.
... you've always done, or- or do you havesome sort of program in place?
We have a pretty in-depth process, buteverybody I've told it to has
liked it a lot. And for us, itworks incredibly
well. Like, when we run this playbook perfectly, I've neverhad ne- somebody not leave a glowing review.
So it- it starts with this study that
was done with

(43:15):
waiters
and their tips. I don't know if anybody outthere's heard this one, but it was like
if a waiter left one mint at the table,they got, like, a 3% boost
in their tips. If they left two mints at the table,they got, like, a 7% boost or whatever.
But if they left one,
walked away from the table, came back, and gavethem a second one 'cause there's two

(43:35):
people there, uh, they got, like, a 23% boost intheir tips. So way higher. So
what was the takeaway from that study?
The takeaway was that giving a gift helps alot, um, and making it unexpected
and personalized helps even more. So that's why theygot that, like, 23% boost or whatever.
It was unexpected 'cause thewaiter walked away

(43:56):
and came back, and it was personalized 'cause it's like, "Oh,there's two people. Let me give you two mints."
So
from there, I try to think about, how can weapply that to what we do?
So we do a gift at the end of the project,
like everybody does, but weliterally choreograph it
to make it seem unexpected and personalized. So forthe personalized piece, we just do,
like, a nice bottle of wine or champagne. It'skinda celebratory on your deck.

(44:19):
Um, you can take it a step further if you do biggerprojects and do like a Cutco gift,
uh, gift set,
and just make sure you have their lastname engraved on it.
Please don't put your company logo on it.Nobody- people will throw it away.
But if you put their last name onit, they'll keep it
forever and think about you whenever
they use it. So anyways, to make itpersonalized, we use, like,
a- a bottle of wine or champagne. Andthen to make it unexpected,

(44:41):
when we're wrapping up a project, we walk themthrough. "Anything else you guys need?
Great. This was awesome. Anyquestions, let us know." I
jump in the truck as if I'm gonnaleave. We've wrapped it up.
I sit there for, like,
10 seconds,
grab the wine, walk back up to the house, knock on the door,and they look so confused. I'm like, "Hey,
Mr. Smith. I'm so embarrassed. I almost forgot, but we gotyou guys, like, this little thank you gift.

(45:03):
Anyways, have a good day. I'm outta here." Andthey're over the moon at that
point 'cause they just had this beautiful wrap-upand now you surprise them with this
gift that was totally unnecessary.
I've had multiple people,
before I get home, leave a review withpictures without being asked-
Hm.
... 'cause they are just over the moon.
So- s- so wait, you gave them... So youfirst give them, like,

(45:23):
Cutco knives
with their last name-
Sorry, that's a different option.That's a different option-
Okay.
... for- for a gift. Our gift is abottle of wine or champagne.
Okay.
If you do, like, 100,000 plus projects, I'd probablyinvest a little bit more into the gift.
Gotcha.
So that's just another really good option.
Gotcha. So it's-
And then we choreograph it so it's- seemslike we forgot about it.
So now they're over the moon. Um,and then the real

(45:45):
magic, if they don't leave a review right away,is when I send the email later
requesting the review. So
they've just spent a week or twowith our guys on site.
They love them. They're hard workers.
They talk to them.
They're really appreciative of all their hard work. Sowhat I do when I ask for the review
is I say, "Hey, Mr. Smith. Um, thanksagain for working with us.

(46:07):
Any chance you'd be opposed to leaving usa short review on Google?
Brandon and Quinn," those are the two guys theylove that's been in their backyard
for a week, "Brandon and Quinn each get a$50 review if you leave them
a five-star review."
So we just built up, like, thisamazing experience.
They feel like they owe Brandon and Quinn, and nowI'm just giving them an opportunity

(46:29):
to pay Brandon and Quinn back for all theirhard work by leaving me a review.
When you specifically word it like that atthe end, I mean, it- it
ki- in a nice way, it kinda guilt tripsthem into doing it, but
everybody does it. It's incredibly powerful.
That's awesome. I mean, I- I've been a bigadvocate for, you know,
telling people like, "Look, whensomeone's spending, you know,

(46:51):
a huge chunk of their- their- (laughs) their-
Yeah.
... hard-earned money with you, like, that little gift." Imean, it's such a nominal expense. You know?
100%.
I mean, a bottle of wine is- i- i- it isa total rounding error
in the greater perspective of how much profit
you just earned on that job. But like, man, it isthe customer experience that's-
Mm-hmm.
... invaluable. You know? And- and likeyou said, I mean, it- it

(47:13):
leads to the- to the reviews. It leads to themreferring you to other people.
Yup.
It leads to them thinking about you the nexttime they need another project.
Yup.
A- and it's just like, I- I don't understandhow everyone doesn't do this.
I don't get it either.
You know? It- it is such an easy thing to do.
It's so easy. And there's a book, some- some people haveprobably heard of it, called Gift- Giftology. Um,

(47:33):
uh, the biggest thing with the gifts, and this is thebiggest mistake I see of the people that
do give gifts, is they always puttheir company logo on it.
People don't want company logo stuff.
They're just... Have you ever, like,really kept a mug that has
somebody else's logo on it in your house? Like,no. Nobody really cares about that.
But what they will care about, that's why Ilike the Cutco example. I- I
read this in a- or heard it on a podcast acouple years ago or something.

(47:56):
Um, if you give them a little gift set
of really nice knives with their last name on it,they will never throw that away.
Not only will they never throw it away,they'll use it multiple
times a week. Every time they pull it
out, they'll think about you. They don't needtheir logo- they don't need
your logo-
Hm.
... for them to think about you. Soyou wanna give them
something that they're gonna keepforever and think about you.

(48:16):
Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, you know,
it- it definitely... I would say that takes alittle bit more effort, you know-
A little bit.
... to- to go kind of personalize that andorder it. But, you know,
again, companies like Cutco makeit super easy-
Incredibly easy.
... to be able to do that.
Incredibly easy. And those gift sets are, like,around 200 bucks. So that's why
our cutoff is, like, a $50,000 project. If it's less than that,we don't do the customized thing. If it's more

(48:37):
than that, we'll invest a little bit more time intogetting something a little nicer.
Man, I, I absolutely love that. You know, we, wedo the same thing with our, uh,
you know, with, with our team. Soany time someone, uh,
you know, gives us a five-starreview, you know,
the, the customer success manager, you know, they get a littlebonus, just, you know, again, we, we want them
going in saying, "I wanna bendover backwards, do
everything I can to make sure thiscustomer has a great experience

(49:00):
from the very moment they sign up with JobTread."And, you know, it, it, it is really
just helps set the tone, you know, it, it, you know, not,not a huge thing, you know, but it, it, it
definitely, I, I believe, makes an impact on the way that weapproach every single customer from day one.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, again, it's, uh, you know, most peopleprobably don't know, maybe we need to, you know,
uh, promote it a little bit better that we

(49:21):
actually do something for our customersuccess managers for every-
Yeah.
... five-star review that they get.
Yeah.
Um, but, like, it, it, it's a greatprogram, you know, and, and,
and I'm sure your guys, you know,love it too, just
knowing that they're, they've got that additional,you know, bonus coming if, if, if they
can earn that five-star review for you.
Exactly. That's the ancillary benefit. Igive them permission, like,
if the customer wants to talk with you,like, take the 10 minutes.

(49:42):
Yeah.
Yap with them for a little bit. If it goes over 15, 20,just tell them, "You gotta get back to work."
(laughs)
But, like, take the extra time.
Yeah.
You know?
Now, if, you know, again, I, I know a lot of times, youknow, you ask for the reviews, someone
says they'll do it, but they don't do it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, they, they forgot. Whateverthe excuse is, like, so,
you know, do you follow up? How many times doyou follow up? Or do you just-
Yeah.
... let it go?
So once we started implementing that process perfectly, like,it's 90% are, are above that leave a review.

(50:04):
Wow.
So for the few people that don't, um, I'll followup once or twice, just like, "Hey,
checking in to see if you were able to leavethat review." Sometimes they don't
show up on our end, so if you let me know that you haveleft one, then I can let Gogle, Google know
that it ha- hasn't shown up. So that's just a bullshitexcuse so that I have a reason to reach out. Um,
or I'll just remind them, like, "Hey,were you able to leave that

(50:25):
so, uh, I can get Brandon andQuinn their bonus?"
Yeah.
If not, no worries.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Man, that's, that's great.
And Joe, this has, uh, been, been superinsightful, uh, you know, kind of as-
Mm-hmm.
... as we wrap up here. I mean, I'm, I'm curious,do you have any, any sort of final
thoughts or advice? Like, you know, when, whenyou think back about, you know,
again, the, the, the very beginnings of whenyou started Deck Science to-

(50:46):
Mm-hmm.
... you know, what you've learned. I mean,
is there anything that, like,you feel like you
know now that you wish you would've known, you know,starting off that, that could've maybe
saved you, you know, a couple challenges or headaches, orcould've helped you to, to grow, you know,
quicker or more profitable, that,you know, just...
A- a- any, any general advice that you might wanna share withothers who are looking to build, you know, a, a,

(51:07):
a successful business, you know, and, andhopefully follow in your footsteps here?
Yeah. Um,
this might not be, like, super applicable toeverybody, but, um, when I first, first
started, I swung so far into the pendulum side thatI wanted everything to be, like,
so templat-
templatized and, like, not custom that I wouldn't even haveto talk with the customers. I would just

(51:28):
send them the few options based on the size, you make yourdecision. But now I've gone the other way of, like,
having more touch points with them,
conversating with them more, being, you know, going outto their place, doing Zoom calls. That
has worked way better, having more touch points,even though the actual product
is still somewhat templatized. Um, the sales process isnot templatized. It's more personalized.

(51:50):
Um,
and then just, like, some final nuggets that
is working for us right now that some other peoplemight get some benefit from. Um,
on our JobTread proposals, people loved this, Idon't know why. But, uh, at the top,
we literally have a group called Your Team, andthen the sub-items under that is
Your Project Manager, and then it's a picture of me,because I'm the project manager, and

(52:14):
everything I'm responsible for, and under that isYour Foreman, picture of your foreman
and everything they're responsible for.
Again, I don't know why, butpeople absolutely
love that, 'cause they know who's gonna be in theirbackyard for the next week or two, and
how often to expect the communications,you can explain it there,
and who they need to reach out to at what stage of aproject. So people have loved that.
Man, that's awesome. I, I, I've-

(52:36):
Yeah.
... heard from, uh, couple other, other
builders who have done that as well, and they, and they thinkit, it is just such a difference maker for-
Yeah.
... setting that tone and, and for setting the ex-expectations, you know, for the project moving forward.
Mm-hmm.
Like, again, like, the goal
is to build a relationship here, and it's for your, yourcustomers to feel like they know you. You know?

(52:56):
Exactly.
I mean, one, people buy from people they know, theylike, they trust. You know, but even going
through the project, you know, again, this isconstruction. Not everything is gonna go
perfectly well, you know, and so when thosechallenges do come about, you want them
to feel like they can reach out to you and that they can, youknow, bring any concerns to you, because the,
the worst thing that can happen is someone'sfrustrated and says nothing,
you have no idea, and you justkeep going along.

(53:18):
Mm-hmm.
You know, you, you could've coursecorrected, you could've, you know,
done something different or made itright, but, like, you
got to, to, to build thatrelationship so that they-
Mm-hmm.
... feel comfortable. You know, and you also gottamake sure that you're, you're reaching
out and asking and, and checking in. But, like, I love theidea of, of having, you know, that, that photo
and, and, and being able to reallyput the names with the
face so that they know what to expect. That's,that's an awesome touch, man.

(53:39):
Yeah. Yeah, it's helped a, he- helped a whole bunch. Samewith the actual communication, uh, structure.
Once the project is signed, it's, like, you know, maybea month and a half til it starts. So
last season, I started doing this whereI just took control of
that communication process. Instead of waitingthem to ask me a question or
waiting
couple weeks between
messaging them, I just

(53:59):
literally every single week at the same time
Thursday morning, I just send an update individually toevery customer we have in the pipeline.
"Here's what happened this week. Here's whatwe're expecting to happen next week.
I will message you again at this timeon next Thursday."
And questions disappeared.
Oh.
That's awesome.
Yeah. It's, it's so helpful.
That's great, man. Uh, one last question. I, I'mjust curious, you know, so, like-

(54:21):
Yeah.
... what, what's your, what's yourlonger term, you know,
vision here? Where, where do you wanna take, you know, DeckScience over the next, you know, five, 10 years?
Yeah. I'd l- I would like to sell it probably around,like, 35 plus or minus three years, so
10-ish years from now. Um,
where I really wanna be is, like, probably
five to seven locations, hopefully each doing around, uh,probably about five top line, one bottom line.

(54:47):
So then that way, if we have fivelocations doing one
million bottom line each, that's five
million bottom line. You could sell that, I don'tknow, what, five X, eight X, sell, exit,
25-
Nice.
... to 45. Something like that.
I, I love the fact that you, you already have a visionand goal that you've set for yourself.
It's where we're going.
You know, that it's, so many people,they don't, they don't
set goals. I mean, you gotta have annual
goals, you gotta have monthly goals, you gottahave long-term goals. Like-

(55:09):
Yeah.
... if you don't have your goals defined,you will never hit them.
Yeah.
You'll never know. I mean, you know, it's,
it's so, it's so awesome that, you know, again,you, you can tell that you're very
forward-thinking. You know, you, you havereally, you've ironed out
the details of, of your day-to-dayprocesses, you know,
the, the, the operating processes, butyour long-term, you know,
goals and, and visions here. And I think that's, that,that has been, you know, something that has

(55:29):
really helped you to, to be able to be
so successful, and, and to be so young, man. I mean, at 26,like, holy cow. That's, that's incredible
to see what you've been able to build
at such a young age. I mean, you know, starting at, you know, 23years old, like, I mean, again, very few people
can say that, that, that they evenhad the forethought
of creating their own business and buildingsomething that is, you know, scalable

(55:50):
and, and, and profitable, you know, with that, withthat end goal in mind, so... Dude, I, I-
Yeah.
... can't wait to, to continuewatching you build this
company. You know, your, your success is, is, it'smotivating. You know, we love seeing
the, the success that you're having. But look, I alsoappreciate you coming on here and, and, and sharing
with the rest of our community. You know, this is, this, thisis the type of, you know, success story that

(56:11):
people need to hear so that they canhopefully take away some nuggets,
can implement some changes, and can beas successful as you.
You know, uh, so many people just, they're,they're going at it alone
and they don't know what they don't know, and,like, you don't have to do that, guys.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you know, again, take the time, invest inyourself, invest in your team,
set up your processes, set up your systems,
focus on the customer experience, and you canbuild a very successful business

(56:35):
just like Joe is doing here today. You know,
thank you again, Joe, for, for coming on, for sharingthis experience, sharing your wisdom
with everyone out there. We, we, wetruly appreciate it, man.
Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was really awesome. And ifanybody out there, like, has any questions about
any of the word vomit I just did,(laughs) just add me on
Facebook. Happy to answer any questions. I don't post a lot onthere, but I do check it a lot. So happy to help.

(56:56):
Awesome. Yeah. And, and, uh,
Job- uh, Joe's in our, in ourJobTread Pros group, so-
Yep.
... you know, certainly, uh, feel free toconnect with him there.
Spark up some discussions about this
podcast. Uh, again, everyone, really appreciateyou tuning in, listening here, uh,
to, to today's episode. And, uh, yeah,
can't wait to, uh, to, to see what the futureholds for you, Joe. Thanks again-
Thanks, Erik.
... for coming on.
Bye.
Thanks for joining us for this episodeof Builder Stories.

(57:20):
We hope you enjoyed the conversation
and gained valuable insights thatcan help you in your
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and leave us a review. And as always, if you
or someone you know has a story to share, pleasecontact us at builderstories.com.
We'd love to hear from you. I'm ErikFortenberry, and remember, every

(57:41):
builder has a unique story. Keepbuilding yours.