Quirky Content, Big Impact | Kaleb Lyles of Copper Masters Roofing

Kaleb Lyles grew up working alongside his father in construction and what began as helping out during school breaks turned into a lifelong calling. Together with his wife Andrea, Kaleb launched Copper Masters Roofing with a vision to honor his family’s legacy while carving out his own path in the roofing industry.

Here Kaleb shares how early financial struggles forced them to build a stronger foundation for growth. He explains the steps they took to create a loyal company culture and the ways his love of creating quirky, unique, and fun content fuels engagement for the brand. Kaleb also reveals what he has learned about balancing the office and the field, showing the ideal relationship between leading a business and wearing a tool belt.

In this episode you will learn:

• How to turn financial struggles into growth
• Tips for investing in people and culture
• How not to treat team members
• A unique, strategic formula for social media that helps win projects
• How to scale a company without losing the personal touch

Resources:

Visit Copper Masters Roofing website here.

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories
man.
I'm excited.
We have an in-person live andjob Tread HQ with Caleb Lyles

(00:25):
from Copper Master Roofing.
I'm so excited to have you here today.
Caleb, welcome.
Welcome to Job Tread.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome to Dallas.
Absolutely.

Kaleb (00:33):
Thank you for rolling out the red carpet.
It was awesome to like get theinvitation to be here and then
like doing the tour and everything.
So thank you very much for thetime that you spent, you know?
Absolutely.
And, and the welcome.
Um,

Eric (00:44):
great to be here.
Thanks for having me on the podcast.
Yeah, absolutely.
So why don't you give us a littlebit of background, you know.
Who are you?
How'd you get into construction?
What do you guys do, things like that.
Yeah, so

Kaleb (00:54):
I'm Caleb, um, from Jackson, Mississippi Market, but we kind of service
a little suburbs right outside of Jackson.
So, uh, I like to say that theroofing industry, um, you know,
I didn't choose it, it chose me.
So from a young age, I grew up with adad that was a, a, a roofer and a, a
home builder and a commercial builder.
And so I grew up with afather that was a contractor.

(01:14):
So it was just known that, youknow, I was gonna be riding in the
truck with him on spring break,summer break, stuff like that.
So that's kind of how I gotstarted, is riding with my dad
every day whenever I was out school.
And then as I grew up and progressed,then, uh, you know, took the job on and.
Took different roles in thecompany, you know, growing up.
Nice.
So, uh, I've actually got apicture of me and my dad on a

(01:37):
roof in Lake Tahoe, California.
Out of all places we're from Mississippi,but he liked to go on vacation and my mom
snapped a photo of me and him tearing offa roof and I was like maybe 10 years old.
Yeah, that's awesome.
So I tell people that I've got a lot ofexperience and then I had to pull out the
picture just to show 'em, to prove it.
So that's kinda like how Igot into the roofing industry.
In construction.
My dad was a home builder,a commercial builder.

(01:59):
So literally I've been with him fromcradle to grave on jobs, dirt work,
concrete building, roofing, turning thekeys over to the homeowner of the new
property owner and, uh, going from there.
So my whole life hasrevolved around construction.
Yeah.

Eric (02:13):
So it's needless to say you're, uh, really passionate about it.
Yeah,

Kaleb (02:17):
yeah,

Eric (02:17):
absolutely.
So when did, uh, you know, so, so kindof, you know, give us a little backstory
on, on Copper Masters, like kind ofthe specifically kind of when did you
take the reins and how, you know, what,what were some of the early challenges
that, that you've kind of felt whenyou, when you really took that over?

Kaleb (02:31):
Yeah, so Copper Masters is a company that my wife and I developed.
So we were originally branded asCaldrea Construction, Caleb and Andrea.
And we put our names together and uh,so it was construction, roofing and uh,
copper flashing and things like that.
But people kept calling us'cause they wanted their closets
remodeled or an addition builtor floors or stuff like that.

(02:52):
I'm like, I am a roofing contractor.
This is what I do.
I do copper work.
So we saw the need to rebrand andso we're like, you know, let's,
uh, let's pay tribute to mydad and his legacy in our area.
And so that's how we came upwith Copper Masters Roofing.
And so we pivoted, rebranded, and uh, andthen I started out as just trying to, uh,

(03:14):
service the needs of home builders andother roofing contractors in our area.
So I didn't want to have a roofingcompany where we went out and
did shingles and everything.
I just wanted to service the flashingand copper needs of other contractors.
But we saw easily, uh, early onwhere we needed to pivot from that.
It just wasn't working with that model.
Um, we didn't fit into those builders and,uh, roofing contractors budgets and things

(03:37):
like that, or they would get our quote,get an insurance company to pay for it,
and then we'd never hear from 'em again.
So I'm like, okay, let's just goback to what I know as roofing.
I hung my shingle out, so to speak,in the area and just started blasting
content and social media, and it justkind of snowballed into what it is today.

Eric (03:55):
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Now you, you brought up Andrea and I,I just wanna take a quick little pivot.
I think you, you guys have themost, uh, dynamic, like, coolest
relationship I've ever seen.
So can you share a littlebit about what she does too?
Yeah.

Kaleb (04:07):
So, uh, you know, we got married and we started out
working together on the roofs.
So her backstory is her dad is acontractor and a remodeler in New
Orleans, and so he worked in the FrenchQuarter of the Garden District to
this day, he still works down there.
And so she grew up, um, as theonly child for a little while
before siblings came along.
And so, uh, she was agirl and he wanted a boy.

(04:29):
So he is like, well, you know what,I'm gonna teach you how to do it.
So she knows how to do roofingand drywall and metal stud framing
and just, you know, siding andwhatever you need laminate floors.
And so fast forward, we get togetherand we've got this little nucleus
powerball going right there, right?
And, uh, so we started workingtogether every day in the business,
like tool bags on tearing the shinglesoff, doing the flashings together.

(04:53):
And then we started addingmembers to the team.
And it got, a couple of years wentby and she's like, you know what,
um, what's going on with like,the finances of this business?
'cause we're doing these hugejobs, but the money's not there.
And, you know, all credit goes to her.
She saw that there was a problem in ourbusiness and she's like, I don't know

(05:15):
if we can fix it or not, but if you'lllet me take over the finances of it.
Um, and just for, youknow, four to six weeks.
And if I can't turn things around.
Then I'll give it back to you andI'll never ask anything and we'll
just continue doing what we're doing.
And I was hesitant'cause I'm a guy, right?
I'm the knuckle Drager.
I'm like, we're doing the work.
I make the money, I I'll pay thebills for the woman, you know.

(05:36):
And so, um, reluctantly Istarted letting her do that.
About two to three weeks in thingsstarted going on autodraft getting paid.
I didn't have to worry about, you know,robbing Peter to pay Paul anymore.
And it just snowballed.
And, and we were able to just be so muchmore, uh, um, our, our financial clarity

(05:56):
was there finally, for the first time.
And, uh, so I gave her that.
So she transitioned into the officetaking care of our finances, our
bookkeeping, and things like that.
Then, as you know, that sprungspringboarded her into opening
up her company contractor'skeeper, and, uh, where she serves
roofing clients nationwide now.
Yeah.
So she's off to the races.

(06:16):
So her business came about by the,uh, the devastation of my business.
Sure.
But I could not be where I'mat now without her helping me.
Yeah.
So we just work together to thisday still, and she's really good
with computers and things likethat, and I like to help her with
her content and everything, so.

Eric (06:33):
That's awesome.
I mean, you know, some, some of myfavorite content that you put out is
when I see Andrea up on the roof, youknow, doing work or doing drywall,
and it's like, man, like you got, youknow, a, a bookkeeper able to Yeah.
Actually work in the field in thetrades like that is so unique.
Never seen it before.
Yeah.
But man, my hat is off to her.
That is an incredible storyfor her to literally, you know.

(06:54):
Create this like solutionout of a needs basis.
Like, I mean, she, she trulyhelped save your company.
Yeah.
You know, from Financial Ruins, which isoften like, I mean, I, I, I can't tell you
the number of times I see, you know, the,the business feels like it's going good.
You got jobs coming in, you're gettingthe job done, you're doing great
work, but like, where's the money?
That's it.
You know, it just, it comesin and it goes right back out

(07:14):
and there's nothing left over.
Yeah.
You know, that is ultimately like oneof the biggest challenges is cash flow.
Yeah.
And so, man, to, to have her be ableto spot that and step in and say,
man, let, let me solve this problem.
That's huge.
She did.
And one

Kaleb (07:27):
of the biggest problems that she uncovered was she was suspicious about
where some of the funds were going.
And I'm like, here it is.
So she said, I tell you what,every time you spend a dollar,
gimme the receipt from it.
I don't care if you get a bottleof water or if you buy, uh, $40,000
worth of material, gimme receiptsfrom your daily life and quickly,
she goes, I found the problem like ahalf a week in, she goes, here it is.

(07:48):
She added it up.
She said, last year you spentalmost eight grand on fast food.
Alright.
And then you spent this muchon this and she said, if we can
just reign that in a little bit.
Yeah.
And then we did.
It was hard.
'cause I love my food,you know what I'm saying?
I like to eat.
And so once we did that, and, youknow, coupled with a few other things
and then, you know, um, budgetingand, and things like that, it just

(08:10):
sprung board our, our business.
Yeah.

Eric (08:12):
You know, and again, I think early on, you know, it's, it's one thing, but
when you truly want to, to build a great.
Profitable, scalable businesslike you do, you gotta reign
in some of that personal stuff.
You know, here, my, my, uh, you know, myCFO would, uh, would, would absolutely not
let me, uh, put anything on the company.
Yeah.
You know, credit card and, you know, as,as much as you wish you, oh, come on.
It's a write off, yada yada.
So, man, you gotta keep thefinancials clean so that you know

(08:34):
how you really are tracking andyou're not mudding the waters.
And

Kaleb (08:38):
that was one of the biggest things is stopping the bleeding
through that co-mingling of funds.
You know, it was more of like alifestyle company at that time for us.
We just took the money.
If it was a, a 40,000 or $50,000 check,you pay labor and materials in the
wrist is like your personal spend limit.
Yeah.
But you cannot have a strong companyif you have a lifestyle company.
No.
And you're co-mingling fundsand you are wanting to buy

(09:00):
this and go here and do that.
You have to make sure you take careof the business first is what I've
learned And, and, and the peoplearound you and in your organization.
And once you do that, then.
Everything benefits ifyour team is doing good.
If your

Eric (09:13):
company is doing good, then you're doing good.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think a lot of people don't.
Don't kind of see and, and preparefor the longer term play here.
And it's like every year you gotta showhealthy financials, healthy growth, like,
and if you kind of muddy that water andthen one day you decide you wanna prepare
for, you know, to sell the business ordo whatever, and like, you're kind of
looking back and it's just like thismurky, like, how are we, how are we doing?

(09:35):
Like that that is not the signof a healthy, profitable business
that someone's gonna want in hereand, you know, wanna buy, wanna
do, you know, whatever it is.
And so it's like doing thatfrom day one is so important.
Getting that foundation built.
Yeah.
You know, from a financial standpoint.
So man, kudos, kudos to to Andreafor, for all of her hard work there.
I love it.
Like I tried to get

Kaleb (09:52):
her to come in with me today and, and, and travel with me, but
she just couldn't make it out.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like I would not be the man I am, mybusiness would not be the business
that it is without her specifically.
Yeah.
Taking charge of that.
And, uh, I just love it becauseshe, she helps other clients now.
She, we, we saw that it wasworking for us, and both of us

(10:14):
kind of looked at each other andwas like, there's a need for this.
Other people need to hear about this.
So,

Eric (10:18):
um, yeah, absolutely.
So one other, uh, you know, personalquestion around, I mean, how do you
and Andre manage your, kind of, your,your work life, you know, balance, if,
if that even exists, but like, what,what is it like, you know, 'cause
again, I mean, she's, she's got, youknow, her business, you've got your
business, you're also working together.
Like, how, how do, how do youguys kind of, you know, handle?
So that's the thing is I'm up

Kaleb (10:39):
and out of the house early and then she starts her day a little
later, but when she goes on the clock,that girl is nothing but business.
Y'all, I mean, that sounds likea country song or something.
Nothing but business from nine to five.
Well, she goes from nine to like 10 or 11.
Uh, both of us have one of those kindof like workaholic personalities.
Um, so if we're together.

(11:00):
Uh, we could even be sitting atthe dining room table and both of
us on our computers, but if we'retogether, we're spending that time,
but we still try to take time.
You know, I just told you earlier today,we started playing pickleball together.
So the other day ago, like rightafter work, you know, I just pull up
in my work clothes and just go outthere and start playing pickleball.
We play for like an hour and uh, thenwe have family time, so we don't have,
uh, flesh and blood children, but whatwe do have is, uh, we have two boxers.

(11:24):
Our downtime is sitting on the couchwith those two dogs just in the, the
big cuddle pile, you know, and, andthen just watching TV or just sitting
there talking with no devices, youknow, and just focusing on each other.
And, um, and, and then we haveour times on the weekends and
things like that, but it is hard.
Both of us are the CEOs ofcompanies that are doing well,

(11:45):
and so our phones are always on.
And so just knowing when to have thatbalance of keeping it on silent, answering
the call whenever you, you know, getback to it or something like that.
But then it comes with trusting thepeople in your organization more.
And so, uh, both of us have thosepersonalities where we trust the people
in our organization to take care ofwhat they're assigned to do and handle
things, and so it really helps out.

(12:06):
Sure.
Yeah.

Eric (12:07):
All right.
So let's, let's transition backto, to copper Masters here.
So, you know, kind of give us alittle bit more of a timeline.
So, you know, you, you first kind of took,took the reins and then, you know, how
has, how has the team evolved since then?
Yeah.

Kaleb (12:20):
So it started husband and wife team out there just grinding knuckles.
Right.
And what, what year was that?
Um, so that was, we got married in 2016.
Okay.
But we were working for one ofmy dad's friends at the time.
Okay.
Um, before we married, I was keepingthings simple, so I was just working
with him, letting him handle the businessand uh, and then it saw the need later
on, um, to step back out and, and runmy own business so I could make a little

(12:44):
more money to support my new family.
Right.
And so, um, I knew what we needed todo and so we, we started doing that
together and it was just her and I outthere with tool bags on doing the work.
And then we'd reach out and I had likea family friend, so I worked several
friends, um, and friends of the family,family members and things like that.
And it just kind of snowballed.
And then they would, they wouldgo their different ways, but

(13:06):
fortunately everybody that left.
We, we had like goodrelationships or things like that.
So they would go and do their ownthing according to what they needed.
And then, uh, a few people would stickaround for a little while and then just
trying to build that company culture.
'cause I didn't always have that.
I, I didn't all, I didn't knowhow to run a company because I was
always working in the company foreverything and for the company.

(13:29):
So I was just like, uh, I just knowthe work needs to get done and it's
not gonna get done unless we do it.
And so I was kind of a, had a,a, a rough abrasive attitude.
And so I, you know, pe somepeople can't handle that.
And, and, and, and it's on me thatthey left, you know, for those reasons.
Yeah.
But, um, I was able to work on that.
I, I remember having a team meetingand it was like four or five of us in

(13:50):
this meeting, in the conference room.
And, and they just, they let me haveit, like, here's, here's how we feel.
Here's what you're doing.
This is how it makes us feel.
This.
And I'm like, all right.
I remember after everybody left,Andrea turned to me and she
goes, you heard it from them.
So what are you gonna do?
You've got a good team nowand you're gonna lose them.
And so having to learn and make a companyculture changes very quickly and trust

(14:15):
people to do the job, not, you know,sitting over their shoulder, so to speak.
You know, or, or even my attitude or howI said things, you know, even though it
may have been right, but they didn't sayit the right way, or something like that.
So just learning that company cultureso I can start building that team.
And now we, I'm proud to saythat we have a strong, you know,
inside nucleus team right now.
And then we have our crew.

(14:36):
I've been around this one crewfor over 15 years, and so I,
they know me, I know them.
I. Um, they know what I expect out of ajob and I know what they like to have.
Sure.
And so that just helps us go from there.
But that company culture, uh, from, uh,me all the way through the company and,
and into the actual field workers Hmm.
Is the same.

(14:56):
Anybody can come in the office,walk around, get whatever they
want, do whatever they want.
They always have access to me 24 7.
Yeah.
You know, and just being there andlet 'em know, and then making sure
they have the, the tools and the techand, and the team supporting them,
you know, and so that's what we'vebeen trying to do with the company.

Eric (15:12):
And I, uh, it reminds me of that, that story kind of reminds
me of a similar experience I had.
It was at, at my previous company.
And, uh, you know, we, we, we, wewere in a leadership meeting and, you
know, my, my dad, he was our CFO ofthat company, CFO of this company too.
Like, he, uh.
I, I, I used to be, uh, you know, I,I kind of, you know, snap back, you
know, or, or, or, or send very, youknow, terse, like pointed, you know?

(15:34):
Yeah.
Just one liners, you know,zingers as they described to me.
And, uh, you know, he, he, he pulledme aside one day and was like,
Eric, look, you know, as, as, as aleader of this company, like, you
can't, you can't respond like that.
You can't treat your people like that.
You know, you, you need to think beforeyou just send these, you know, these,
these zingers as he called 'em, he islike, that is gonna drive people away.
Yeah.
You know, you, you have to make surethat, you know, you, you, you really take

(15:56):
the time to, to think before you just,you know, I, you know, I'm just a super,
wanna get it, you know, going as fastas I possibly can, but like, you know,
that, that, that really stuck with meand, and helped me to realize, man, like,
gotta use the two ears, the one mouth.
Like, let's, let's process, let'smake sure that you know, you, you
show respect, you acknowledge, youknow, what that person has said.
Think through, like whythey might have said that.

(16:18):
Then come back with, you know,Hey, you know, I hear you,
but here are my thoughts.
You know, just, I think it, itgoes a long way to have that,
that, that strong communication.

Kaleb (16:25):
Yeah.
Andrea told me, she said, you've beendoing this for 30 years, your whole life.
This is all, you know, it's second nature.
You dream about this.
The people that work foryou, they've never done this.
Or, or they may have anidea of how it works.
And so if they're not understanding,it's because they don't know.
And so you just have to explain it andwrite it out and have these systems

(16:47):
and processes and checks and balancein place where everybody can have
their own decision tree and, and makethat according to that, you know?
And so once, once the teamstarted working with me.
And, and, uh, everybody startedresponding well and, and now I have
one of the best teams that you can get.
That's awesome.
And, uh, you know, doing the teamtrips, like we took everybody to Job

(17:08):
Tread Connect, and then we, uh, take'em to different training and seminars
throughout the country, whatever it.
Pertains to, to what they'redoing in the company.
Yeah.
If they need more knowledge or learning,we will get the courses or, or the
books or, or pay for the seminars ortake 'em to the training and stuff like

Eric (17:23):
that.
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
Like to, to to, to again, seeyou're investing in your people.
You know, so many times I, I seebusiness owners, they just, you know,
they, they, they, they're overwhelmed.
They know they need to fill a seat.
They bring the first person in off thestreet who applies, and then they just
expect them to just figure it out.
You know, learn by osmosis orread their mind or whatever.
It's like, man, like, that'snot how it, how it works.

(17:44):
Like, you gotta take the time Yeah.
To train and onboard your people andinvest in their continual development.
Like, that's how you build an amazingteam that's firing on all cylinders
and they're gonna wanna stay with you.
Like you, you, you genuinely areinvesting in their professional
development, which, you know, again,it, it benefits them, it benefits the
company, you know, everybody wins.
And I think so many businesses just.

(18:05):
That they lose sight of, that they losesight of the fact that their people are
their most valuable, important asset.
Like they are the ones that willdrive your business forward.
There's nothing else that matters beyondthe people behind the desk, behind
the, you know, the, the, the hammer.
That's it.

Kaleb (18:19):
Anybody at the end of the day can go and do the work, but it's those
people that facilitate that work.
Your team, your homeowners, thoseare the number one people or they
should be in a company's life.
And, and as long as you're taking allof that money and you're paying your
bills, your distributors, uh, your salesteam, your, your employees, uh, you pay

(18:41):
everybody first and then you take thatmoney and invest it in what they need.
Tools, tech, training, teaching.
Materials and, and, and then that justspringboards and, and then whatever's
left over, then a company owner can, canenjoy those things and things like that's,
at least that's how I feel about it.
I know it's not a popular opinion, right?
Or it's, oh, we see allthis money, let's take it.

(19:02):
I, I can't tell you how many timesthat I've heard the crews talk
about, oh, the other company thatI worked for holds my money for two
weeks or two months or whatever.
I'm like, no, you did the work today.
You just, you just killed it on 85 squaresof shingles in a hundred degree heat.
Here's your check.
The moment you get finished.
Then I'll worry about it on the back end.
That's awesome.

(19:22):
You know what I'm saying?
Because without you, Ican't support my family No.
Without you, because Ican't get out there anymore.
You know, not with theissues that I have and do it.
I can, but it's not gonna be pretty.

Eric (19:33):
So, so I was gonna ask you, I mean,

Kaleb (19:34):
are, are you still wearing the tool belt?
So, uh, a lot of people make fun of me.
You know, they see me on socialmedia and everything, and I do,
uh, reward myself with new toolsso they don't have any dirt on 'em.
So I guess I gotta just like, you know,it's like if you get a new pair of
boots, you gotta scuff 'em right outtathe bat, you know what I'm saying?
So I do still wear the tool belt.
I actually enjoy it.
I don't mind.
I would rather be a project manager.

(19:56):
But when I'm a project manager,like I'm up there working with the
guys, I'll pick up trash, I'll, uh,I'll tote shingles up on my back
still even with the hip replacement.
And, uh, I'll get up there and pick upthe nail guns 'cause that's what I did.
Yeah, I, I, I can't stand going to a joband seeing the work being done and knowing
I'm not gonna be a part of that work.
So I do like to, uh, right now thesize company we are, and I hope

(20:18):
that I can carry this throughout,no matter how big we are.
Uh, no matter how big this thinggrows, a lot of guys kind of back out
as like, I, I'm not gonna do that.
I wanna have people in placearound me that allow me just to
go out and be a project manager.
No, I don't care if I've got like,go get the guys two more sheets
of plywood or something like that.
So I do have tools.
I do go and do, uh, initialconsultations with customers

(20:40):
and assessments and inspections.
I still meet with the insurancecompanies out there and, uh, and
I still love to be out there andput my tools on if I have time.
Now, obviously, you know,running a company, you just
don't have time for it anymore.

Eric (20:53):
I, I think it's a typical, you know, entrepreneur who
just loves what they're doing.
I mean, I, you know, I'm,I'm in the same boat.
Like, you know, people ask me like,why, why do I still build desks here
and why do I still respond to support?
And, you know, I mean, but I, I,I love it, you know, it's like
I, I wanna roll up my sleeves.
Like I want to be down in thetrenches right next to all my people.
And, and I think that really istruly how you win their respect and

(21:14):
their trust when they know there'snothing that you would ask someone
else that you wouldn't do yourself.
You haven't done yourself.
Like, you know, I think that atthe end of the day, like, and,
and, and again, it too, it, it.
It just, it, it fulfills me, it fillsmy cup to know that I'm just like
right there alongside, I understand thechallenges, I understand the hard work.
And you know, I think a lotof times, you know, again,
people start making good money.

(21:36):
You know, profits start rolling in andthen they just want to kick back and
kind of go sit in the corner office.
And like, I think that's, that's, that'swhen you start to lose, you know, that
strong like culture and that work ethicand like, you know, but having great
leaders who are willing to roll up thesleeves and do the work is, I mean,
that's just very admirable in my opinion.

Kaleb (21:52):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
What I, what I do is like, uh, evento this day, we have somebody that
cleans our office, but I'll, I'llevery day I take the trash out.
Just a small thing like,oh, we, I'm gonna do that.
I got something.
No, it's okay.
This is my job.
Yeah.
Piece of paper on the floor.
A paper equivalent floor.
I pick it up.
Oh, somebody's gonna do that.
No, this is my job.
When I go out on the job sitewith the guys, it's like, okay.

(22:14):
I look around and I'm like, okay, whatcan I do to make that person's job easier?
Or can I do that job while I'm here for10 minutes or 30 minutes so they can do
something the next step in the process?
Right.
And so what I like to do is startwith, um, picking up the trash, you
know, the papers or something likethat, and putting 'em in a trash bag.
And then that person kind of sees itand they're like, oh, this is nice.

(22:36):
Let me go to the next step.
Or Let me take a break for 10,15 minutes while he's on site.
Yeah.
And then come back to it.
And so that's, I mean, I'vealways been like that to this day.
That's all.
And, uh, it, it doesn't matter what it is.
I feel like if you're immersed in thecompany, um, like you said earlier,
people will see that, that yourespect them enough to do that and
be there for 'em and be present, andit just makes the team just explode.

(22:58):
Absolutely.

Eric (22:59):
So I wanna also ask, I mean, again, I, you know, I see so many
unique, you know, we, we got, we gotAndrea going from, you know, from,
from construction to, to bookkeeping.
I, I think another huge move that you'vemade is, you know, again, you, and, and,
and really focusing on social media, thecontent marketing that you're putting out.
I mean, it, it's top notch.
Like, I'm curious, like, w whereand how did you figure that out?

(23:21):
How did you develop that skillsetto like truly understand marketing?
Because like, again, like you, you'rekeeping the top of the funnel filled,
and that's just driven so muchbusiness towards you, but so many
contractors, like, they don't get it.
Like they're scared to pull out theirphone and to record and to try to
like generate that, that content.
How, how did you get into that?
Yeah, so,

Kaleb (23:39):
um, uh, I'll see if I can just break it down.
Like, starting from a young age, we'dgo on family vacations and my dad and my
mom had this really nice cannon camera.
And, and they took pictures ofeverywhere, the mountains, the beach,
you know, the family and everything.
And so as a young person with lurproblems and needing to sit on my
hands and things like that, I justkind of like locked into it, you know?

(24:02):
And um, and I remember, you know, backin, when I started doing content for work
for my dad and I, it was just the, youknow, you just click it, click, click.
That camera had broken that they had.
So you just get the little clickdisposable cameras and you take,
you know, what was it, 26 picturesor 32 pictures or whatever it was.
And then you curate that into like aphoto album and you go to a customer,
it's like, here's a book of our work,literally, and here's when we did

(24:25):
this roof for this person and this.
So that was like my first socialmedia, so to speak, is taking
pictures, curating it, you know, inmy early teens from my dad's company.
Cool.
And, and it just sprung board intolike 2009, jump on the Facebook train.
And it was like, you take so muchcriticism because you only have like 10
followers and they're all family, right?
And they're like, why do you post so much?

(24:46):
And you, you're, you're talking aboutyour food and you're talking, you
know about your dog and this and that.
And so once you start building afollowing outside of your, your
closest people that, that are yourbig, biggest critics, you know?
Yeah.
Um, then people start liking it and seeingit fast forward all these years later.
Now it's just, I mean, our phonesare cameras that make phone calls,

(25:08):
and so there's some of the mostpowerful phone, uh, cameras that
you can have at your disposable.
So don't I, I don't worry aboutwhat people think about me, even
if it's a controversial thing or Idid something a little wrong, or my
tools were new, or they've got this,you know, peppy comment about it.
That's just adding fuel to the algorithm.
Yeah.
And, uh, I don't know.

(25:30):
I, I, I don't over drink.
I don't smoke.
I'm married to one woman.
I love my wife.
Uh, my one vice, and she'll tell youthis is that phone and social media
and, and, and for the company I have,you know, copper Masters Roofing,
and then I've got Copper Masters Pro.
So the roofing is like my everydaycarry, you know, and you're gonna.
Everything on there from jobs towhat I ate, to where I'm at, or I'm

(25:53):
traveling or something like that.
And with Copper Masters Pro isjust our really nice fancy work
that we've done for people to see.
And then I've got Copperman, uh,which is my alter ego, you know?
And so that's what I buildup in the community with.
And then our dogs have asocial media page, and then my
beard has a social media page.
And, and, uh, my wife's companyhas a social media page, and

(26:15):
it's just like all these pages.
And so it's just gotten in one ofthese routines and habits to where
it's like, all right, I know I'mgonna spend this much time making
some content, capturing it, chop itup, put it in there, drop it in the
pipeline, and then just let it post.
All of that has helped build my brand.
I'm not this mega companyin my area, right?

(26:36):
No.
Uh, there's some companies that arethe 40 and $50 million companies that
have all this private equity behindthem and all of the advertising.
But guess what?
My Instagram ads and my Facebookads are right there with them.
Uh, when my trucks roll up tothe red light, I'm right there
at the same red light as them.
Yeah.
Um, the, the company, uh, theright outside of my office, there's
a billboard with two roofingcompanies, one on either side.

(26:59):
But you know what, I've got anenclosed cargo trailer sitting
down there with my billboard on it.
You know what I'm saying?
So I'm in that race.
My dog is in the race.
Um.
So I just, I just love content.
Like we could probably do a wholepodcast about content, but, uh,
that's kind of how it started for me.
Um, and then it's justI'm, uh, obsessive over it.
Yeah.
And, and it doesn't have to be perfect.

(27:21):
Um, like Gary V says, just pull out yourphone and grab that raw, organic content.
Yeah.
And just go to town.
And, uh, and that reallyresonates with me.
I'm like, I like that guy.
That's what I like to do.

Eric (27:33):
It helps, it helps you be so much more efficient too.
And you don't have to sit there andyou know, every little detail and,
you know, did, did my hair stickup here, did this look the sun?
And you know, like, I mean,just publishing and I think
that builds so much more trustwhen the blemishes are in there.
The, the stutters, the,the, you say things wrong.
Like, I mean, that's justpart of real life though.
Yeah.
And I think that's how people know thatthat was a real raw, you know, video

(27:54):
and not, you know, some AI generated,you know, is super over edited.
Yeah.
You know, to make it perfect.
I, I don't think people want Perfect.
Yeah.

Kaleb (28:01):
No.
I've spent an hour or two hourstrying to edit something and
get it all chopped up Perfect.
And it gets like a hundredviews or something like that.
And then I pull out my phone, I'm like,Hey, there's a water faucet on the roof.
Ha.
And I go like 2.9 million views on that.
All they know what he's saying.
And then I go back the next week'cause I wasn't done with that
water faucet and I get a C and Istart drinking from it, you know?

(28:21):
And then I get a anothermillion views on that, you know?
So, um, just pulling that out,people wanna be entertained.
Yeah.
And, and they, they want to beentertained by people like them,
you know, they want it to resonate.
Yeah.
And so I see these companies andit's great if you've got it all
nice and presented, that's perfect.
Have that, but also have a balance.
And that's what I like.
One thing with you guys.

(28:42):
You show the guys in here remodelingwith the hammers or the accomplishments
that your team's made or anything likethat, people wanna be a part of that.
Yeah.
You know?
And so you're able to buildyour brand in a crowded market
through that social media.
Yeah.
And I don't know why anybodywouldn't wanna do it.
The people that are shy out there,I mean, this is free advertising.

(29:02):
Yeah.
You know, and you don't have to paytens of thousands of dollars or millions
of dollars if you don't have it.
Just start with your phoneand just start taking content.
You're already doing inspections, you'realready taking pictures of the jobs.
Now, just throw a few videosin there and you're good to go.

Eric (29:17):
Yeah.
I tell people all the time, I mean,Facebook is like the MVP here.
Like, I mean, early on I went andjoined all the contracting groups.
I got to hear the challenges, couldchime in, give some ideas, responses,
you know, eventually had, you know, jobtread and like created awareness to that.
And I mean, it's, it, it's, it's free.
Yeah.
You know, I mean the, the contentand you know, the amount of
time, what you put into it.
Is what you'll get out of it.
You know, you can'tjust have an accountant.

(29:38):
Think somehow people are magically gonnafind out about you if you don't create
content, if you don't engage with thecommunity, then yeah, you know, you if
you're gonna get very little out of it.
But, uh, I, I do need to ask.
So what the, uh, the, one of thefirst things when you're walking
up to the office, you saw Bobby,you go, Bobby, that's a nice beard.
Now you, now you mention you gotthe beard, uh, uh, social account.
What, what's that handle thereand what, what do you post on it?

Kaleb (30:00):
Got Beard Bros. Got, and it is just like my beard journey,
maybe like two years ago now.
Um, it was in December.
I just like, you know what, I'mgonna start growing a beard now and
I have, you know, in my forties andnever grown a beard over peach fuzz.
Right.
I'm like, you know what?
I'm just gonna create something and justgo, because like with my roofing company,
I'm building that brand and I'll get tothat in a minute, but I'm like, you know,

(30:23):
I'm just gonna build this beard brand andjust see, you never know where it could,
I eat beard oils or whatever, you know?
And so I just started with day one peachfuzz up until where I'm at, and I've just
documented that sparsely over the years.
And if there's a product that I like, Ipost a picture with it, I put some music
with it or something like, like that.
Great looking beard.
You've done a good job.
Thank you.
Yeah, I had a little mishap this morningin top of, off part of it, so I hope

(30:45):
everything, I'm sure it'll grow back.

Eric (30:48):
Yeah.
So, so, you know, back to the, likebuilding the, the brand, you know, for,
for copper masters and like, can you talka little bit, I mean, how, how has that,
like how do you directly see and measurethe impact that that's made on sales?
Like is that where, you know, the majorityof your customers are coming from?
And then also how do you kind of, youknow, a lot of people like really don't.
If they don't understand the differencebetween kind of just creating content,

(31:10):
putting out there and like, when do youboost it and when do you pay for ads?
Because, you know, again, there's,you know, for us, like we, we've,
we, we've put a lot of content outthere, just o open free content, but
then like, when we've tried to runthe ads, like, you know, specifically
on Facebook, like, we've struggled.
Yeah.
And it's, it's like the man, like,you know, the more I pay Facebook,
the lower quality of leads.
Yeah.
I know that's a, that's an usthing and it's, you know, all

(31:31):
about managing, but how, how haveyou kind of navigated all of that?

Kaleb (31:33):
Yeah, so, um, o obviously I have a well-rounded, uh, social media
and brand presence, you know, and Ido the paid ads on Facebook and, and
Instagram and, and we have a little bitof Google running and things like that.
But yet, um, what I did, like I said,when we first started, we were gonna run
our service, uh, towards home buildersand contractors and, and roofers.

(31:55):
And so I just startedfollowing those people.
I would follow them and Iwould like their stuff, whether
they followed me or not now.
And it just built, and thenhundreds of roofing contractors
and builders and remodelers andlandscapers, and then thousands.
And then probably in my local market,I only have about maybe a thousand to
1500 followers or friends and family.

(32:16):
And the rest of my, my, my, uh,viewers or, or my followers are
all roofing companies all overthe nation and all over the world.
And so it sprung board into that.
Whereas now, like I wish that I had morelocal followers, realtors, and you know,
you know, people in my local vicinity.
Yeah.
But I just don't now.
And so, um, I do have to pay forthose ads, but that's why I try

(32:39):
to be out there and be genuine.
And if I see where something hitnationwide, then I'll take that, whether
it's a water faucet video, and I'lljust run a paid ad between that because
that's gonna hook somebody, right.
And then they're gonna belike, what's that about?
And then they get on your page and then,you know, you just got 2,500 videos and
pictures for them to go through, you know?
So, um, I can't tell you howmany people have, uh, called the

(33:02):
call center and been, we, we askeverybody, how'd you hear about us?
Uh, you know, Google or Facebookor saw your trucks, but a large
majority is I've been followingyou for six months, two years, you
know, and now I need that service,you know, and so that social media
presence has done that over the years.
And, uh, I even got one of thelargest jobs that we've ever done with

(33:24):
this company through social media,a home builder in another state.
Was building a mega mansion.
And he, and, and, and that architectfor that home builder and that
homeowner called me personallyand said, we've been following
you for like six or eight months.
Um, we haven't liked anything,but I knew they were there.
And he said, would you be willing to workwith our customer in this, this state?

(33:44):
I said, absolutely.
That's awesome.
And that was over, over a $200,000 job?
I think.
So that came directly fromposting on social media?

Eric (33:52):
Yeah.
I mean, so, so you said two thingsreally, really important there.
That, that, that, that I, Ithink we need to call out here.
I mean, like one.
You're asking every single client,how did they hear about you?
Yeah.
You know, so, so you're tracking thatand, and, and again, like I, I know
firsthand that is a very hard thing to do.
Yeah.
You know, getting our salesteam to do that and to log
that is like pulling teeth.
But like, it is so important becausethat's how you know what's working.

(34:15):
That validates all ofyour effort, you know?
And, and the other thing though isagain, you, you have this, this, this
long-term, you know, mentality here.
It's, it's not about, you know,getting the, the, the quick hit today.
It's about over time you're buildingthat, that reputation, you're, you're
nurturing these people who may ormay not have even engaged with you at
all, but at the right time for them.

(34:37):
And that lets you, again, like not havethis like high pressure sales type thing.
It's like, look, you know, I, I just.
Hey, here's what we're doing.
Here are the cool things.
Like if you ever never need to explore itfor you, like reach out, like we're here.
But like, it also, like again,anytime someone wants to go and
do their due diligence, Hey,is this a reputable contractor?
Do they they know what they're doing?
Or are they just a fly by night?
Like there's so much content thatyou have curated over the years.

(35:01):
Yep.
That really goes to saylike, this guy is here.
He's been here, and he is gonna be here.
Yeah.
You know, I think that's just so valuable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's

Kaleb (35:10):
it.
And so I've, I've curated that, thatbook of content and it's always there.
I can reuse it.
I can post, cross, post it betweendifferent brands straight from TikTok
to Instagram or vice versa, Instagramand Facebook and all those things.
And it just gets your network out thereand, and you always hear me say my videos.
It's like, when the time is rightfor you, feel free to reach out.

(35:31):
Yeah.
That's it.
And, and I can't tell you how manypeople have probably seen my content.
It would make me sick, probably knowthey saw my contact and all that.
Or got a letter in the mail or somethinglike that, it's like, oh yeah, guess what?
I do need a roof.
Well, I'm gonna use so-and-so.
Yeah.
And I don't get it.
I've probably gotten hundredsof jobs for other roofing
contractors, but that's all right.
At the end of the day, thecustomer got what they needed.
Yeah.
But it's when the time isright for you, reach out.

(35:51):
Yeah.
And we're here for you.
And so, you know, that's just,that's just how we do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like second nature.
It's like,

Eric (35:59):
like a third arm or something for me at this point.
Yeah.
That's great.
Well, I, I, I'd be remiss to not bring upour, uh, kind of our origin story here.
You know, it was, uh, two 2021.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume,uh, it was, it was Andrea probably
found us, or was it found us.
You asked for our 100th customer,uh, you know, super early on
actually ended up canceling that.

(36:19):
Yes.

Kaleb (36:20):
So we signed up, I think Friday or Saturday and then canceled on Sunday.
And like, you're like, oh no, uh, yougot on the phone with us and we're
like, that's what it was for me.
Because up until that point, our journeywith CRMs and project management software.
A, a pencil and a piece ofpaper and a notebook, a ring
binder, notebook and spreadsheet.

(36:41):
And that's it.
Yeah.
And we had pictures here and we had allthis information here and there and, and
jobs were sliding through the cracks.
And I was losing $10,000 jobs.
$50,000 jobs, $200 jobs.
'cause I couldn't keep up with it all.
I didn't know who I serviced, I didn'tknow, um, if I charged them for it or not.
Yeah.
Um, but to get to that point where wesigned up with you guys, um, I went from

(37:01):
my notebook and paper to another software.
It was a freebie or something like that,but they just didn't, you know, fulfill
our need as a growing roofing company.
And so we saw the need to need likea real professional CRM for roofers.
And I remember looking at all the bignames out there at the time for roofing.
And my wife is like, andthis is just so archaic.

(37:22):
They're stuck in the past.
And she would get on phone calls with'em and was like, Hey, are you gonna
be able to change this or update this?
No, that's just kind of how it is.
You're another number.
Take it or leave it.
We don't care.
We're the biggest one.
We've been here long enough,you know, or whatever.
And so that wasn't our, our style asyou know, us and have come to know us.
And then she's just looking ononline and finds job treading.

(37:43):
And I'm like, I don't know.
Like, we'll look at it and we gothrough the little demo and we're
looking and I'm like, this seemslike a lot to keep up for me.
'cause remember I'm a knuckle dragoncontractor right from Mississippi.
And so we get on there andI get to pecking around.
I'm like, nah, let me justkeep what I got for now.
And that's when we canceled.
And then you got on the phonewith us and it was just like,

(38:04):
we're sitting here right now.
And I had never met you into that point.
And I'm like, oh, thisguy owns this big company.
I can hear your kids in the background.
It's Sunday, so I know you're probablyeating dinner or fixing to watch TV or
something like that, or, uh, you know,any number of of things with your kids.
And I'm like, he, he tookover an hour of time.
And I said, there'sgotta be something there.
So Monday, I think we signed back up.

(38:25):
Now officially we told you we'll gowith you, but on Monday we, we did
it and it's off to the, off to theraces, but the hundredth customer and
then where job tread has come today.
But what I like about it is,you know, those other softwares
weren't willing to work with us.
And here you are, job tread.
You're not really evendesigned for roofers.
But I remember you telling me on thatphone call, you said, whatever it

(38:46):
is that you need with your roofingcompany, I'm willing to at least try
it to see if we can roll that out.
Yeah.
And just made those changes as we needed.
Andrea is like, Hey, we need our, our CRMto do this because roofing is different
than fence building or pool building.
And, and your team is like,well I don't know if we can
do it like an hour later done.
And you're like, Hey, trythis and see if you like it.
Yeah.

(39:06):
And so you guys actually let us haveinput into our CRM and, and tell you what
we needed for it to, to help us to grow.
Yeah.
And so, uh, just, just.
I can't say enough about it.
It's just, yeah,

Eric (39:18):
I mean, I, you know, again, I, I, I, I, I, a lot of credit here goes to people
like you who, you know, have taken thetime to also share your feedback with us.
I mean, you know, it, it's, it's,it's just, I I, I, I view this as a
collaborative effort where together we cancreate the optimal solution and, you know,
at, at the end of the day, I mean, yeah,we, we came out kind of initially sort

(39:39):
of designing it for, you know, generalcontracting, home building, remodeling,
kind of the multi trade type deals.
But like, you know, I, I, when I've, asI've, as I've studied it, I mean, the
fundamentals of managing and runninga construction business, regardless
what trade it is, like they, they'reall the same fundamentals, you know,
but like, we needed to be able to kindof take some of those specifics and
really learn each different industry to,to, to help kind of, you know, either

(40:02):
directly tailor it with the softwareor to be able to better show you how
to set it up, to customize it, youknow, to, to meet those needs and those
processes and those different things.
And so, you know, I think it's, uh.
I, I'm just so thankful that Yeah.
That you're willing to come backto the table and that we were
able to have that relationship.
And, you know, I think as, as you've seen,I mean even, you know, going from, from
number 100 to, you know, we're now about7,500 customers, like, you know, I, I

(40:26):
still just genuinely value the feedbackthat we can get from our customers and
like we continue to listen to them.
And I think, again, that that's, that'swhere I see a lot of these companies
that kind of, you know, they, they buildup this, this, this, this audience, you
know, this, this customer base, and thenthey sort of just sit back and think
they don't have to keep doing anything.
It's their way or the highway.
Like, you know, I think to to, to someextent, like that's when you take your

(40:47):
eye off the ball, you know, and it's,it's people like us coming in there, you
know, keeping it extremely affordable,you know, building a much better
mousetrap, leveraging modern technologymean we just keep coming into, you know,
industry after industry and dethroning,you know, these, these large guys and
they don't even know what hit 'em.
But, you know, at the end of the day, likethat's, it's, it's, it's, it's through
the strength of our relationships withour customers is how we keep progressing.

(41:08):
Job tread.
So I, I appreciate you, man.
And, and those,

Kaleb (41:10):
those other, those other ones, they're like dinosaurs.
What, what makes Job tread differentis you guys are developing it now
in this time period with all thetechnology that we have and all the
tools that we have and the, the add-onsand everything where when they built
those, it was, it was archaic, right?
It was just, you know, onesand zeros and things like that.

(41:31):
Uh, but to be able to pivot,they're not wanting to pivot.
And that's the thing, that'stheir downfall and they're not
wanting to listen to the customers.
And I get phone calls from 'emall the time trying to get me to
switch, and I said, you'll never.
Get me to switch from job tread ever.
Well, why?
I said, because they listened to thecustomer, you know, and now they want
to change their tune after this ora fallout because of something, you

(41:54):
know, over the years or whatever.
But they're never gonna be able tocatch up to job tread at this point.
'cause you said you got what,like 7,500 thereabouts companies.
Yeah, but that's just companies, yourusers are what, 40 or 50,000 or more and
then a hundred and something thousand,you know, total users of this platform.
And it's awesome to be a part ofthat from like, you know, number 100,

Eric (42:16):
you know,

Kaleb (42:16):
all the way to where it is now.
Um, I mean, you, you just,you let the cat outta the bag.
Yeah.
You can't put that back in the box.
Yeah.
Job tread is here to stay.
And like you said, it's dethroning people.
Yeah.
There is no other project managementsoftware that I have ever seen
or research that comes close.
And so I just appreciateyou guys putting it out,

Eric (42:37):
you know?
Well, and I, and I think again, it's,uh, you know, we, we've learned too
that, you know, it's, it's, it's not.
Not just developing the relationshipswith the customers, but also, you
know, developing the relationshipswith the key players, you know, the,
the suppliers, manufacturers, like allthe other, you know, applications and
services and, and, and things that kindof surround and create this kind of
ecosystem within each of these markets.

(42:59):
You know, again, we, we, earlier on welearned it, you know, in the decking space
and we, and we had great relationshipswith, you know, decorators and timber
tech and, you know, the, the list goeson and on like now, like, you know,
the last like, you know, year or so,we've really been very focused on,
you know, the roofing space and, and,and have been very, very fortunate to
have, you know, great relationships.
I mean, e Eagle view and the integrationwe built, you know, being able to pull
in the measurement data like that, thattruly set a, a standard and a model for

(43:23):
us, you know, where we've now been able todo that with more and more, I mean, hover.
You know, others like, you know, aswell as like, you know, SRS and and
and QXO, and like building thoseintegrations with the suppliers, you
know, and the, and the distributors.
And like, you know, we're, we're aboutto even enable the whole procurement,
you know, where you can directly pullthe real time pricing availability.
Yeah.
Sell the job and then turn around andorder it, and then, you know, at the end

(43:43):
of it, pull back in the final receipt.
You know, like, I, I just, Isee so much opportunity here
and, and that type of stuff.
I mean, I, I believe that truly islike, you know, revolutionizing the way
that contractors can, can not only, youknow, bid their jobs, sell the jobs,
but also be able to run them and tojust streamline this whole process.
Because as, as you know, youknow, the more jobs you take on,
the more, you know, moving piecesand parts, like it does become

(44:07):
exponentially harder to stay organized.
Yeah.
And to keep track of all those, youknow, those, those dollars and cents.
You know, and so to the extentwhere we can just continue to,
to, to streamline and automate,I think that is like the future.
And that's how you know we can helpmore businesses like you be able
to be more successful and scalable.
And more businesses need

Kaleb (44:23):
to be open.
If you're not already using a projectmanagement software, they need
to be open to getting out of thespreadsheets and, and, and out of
the, the, the pictures on your, onyour phone or something like that.
Put it somewhere you owe it to your team.
You owe it to your customers to havethe right project management software.
One that's here for this century thatwe're in for the, the modern people that

(44:44):
we are and how we operate and do business.
And, and if you're not on thattrain, you're gonna, you're gonna.
Be left behind and it's gonnabe a sore subject for you.
You owe it to everybody inyour organization to have a
project management software.
And I'm not just, youknow, shooting smoke here.
Um, it has changed my life byhaving a good project management

(45:04):
software for my company.
And, and I never would've beenwhere I'm at now without that.
Obviously I had Andrea doingher thing, but it's like those,
those important pieces werebookkeeping and clear financial,
you know, literacy and then CRM.
Without those two things, I have nothing.
And starting over tomorrow, thoseare the two things that I have is
get the right, uh, bookkeeping inplace and the right CRM in place.

(45:28):
That way, um, the company can thrive.
That's awesome.
And, and, and everybody needs to thinkabout that, even if it's a mom and
pop organization with just one or twopeople, or if you've got 50 people
or more in your, in your company, youreally need that because you owe it
to your, your team, your organization.
You owe it to your customers.

(45:49):
Right to have the very best company.
So you'll be around in two tofive years or five to 10 years.
Uh, because if you have a lifestylecompany that you've been building and
living on, and you have to go outtabusiness and open up another company,
well, what about your customers?
At the end of the day, you know, whatabout your organization, the people
that you have to let go becauseyou couldn't run your company?

(46:10):
Right?
Or you can have clear financials in place.
Uh, and so I think that's,every company needs to do that.
And also you can, you can make sure thateverybody on board is being honest with
your finances and things like that whenyou have those other people in there.
And you have to be careful becauseonce you give all that over to
somebody, you have to be able tochecks and balance it and make sure
somebody's not taking advantage of you.
But having those two systems inplace are, are crucial to a company.

(46:33):
Making sure that you're there for the longrun, that your brand is not just something
that's just gonna come and go, you know?
And, and, and that people can counton you and your organization can grow.

Eric (46:45):
Yeah, absolutely, man.
So, I, I want to take, youknow, quick, quick step here.
Kind of zoom out a little bit.
Like, you know, you, you, youhave relationships with, with
roofers all over the country, like.
What do you see as the biggestchallenges for, for roofers just
in today's, you know, industry,you know, economic climate?
Kinda like where, where are the, the, thebiggest challenges that people are facing?

Kaleb (47:05):
Uh, yeah.
It's, I don't, I don't know if thisis kind of what you're thinking,
but it's a, it's a, it's, um, like Isaid, with, with having, not having a
lifestyle company, but actually runninga business, you know, the right way.
And, and having, having all yourdocumentation and your, your licensure,
if that's what's required in yourarea, not co-mingling bank accounts.
I see all those things where thosecompanies fail in that three to five year,

(47:29):
and I think it's even less than that now.
And, and I've seen companiesin my market come and go.
Um, another thing is we're oversaturated.
Like everything, everythingin building is good, you know?
Um, and there's, there's just all thesecompanies, people get mad and leave these
companies and start over the companies.
I just know that, ha, that's how it works.
And you can't stop it.
But there's all these people thatare racing to the bottom on pricing.

(47:53):
And I, and I saw you in a podcastthe other day ago and you were saying
they're just racing to the bottomwith all these cheap prices and it
makes it bad for everybody else.
Now, uh, it's like whenever I givea customer price, they're getting
duration shingles and they'regetting bullet boot pipe boots.
I'm like a, a guy, you go to see arock star or something, they come out
and said, I'm gonna sing all my songs.

(48:13):
When, when I get throughwith this concert, I'm going
to get on my bus and leave.
They're not coming back out for an encore.
'cause they're doing thejob right to start with.
Yeah.
And so I'm doing thejob right to start with.
I don't have good, better pest.
I'm giving you my bestevery time I do a job.
Well, I'll lose on that becausemy price is a little higher.
Where you've got somebody that'sjust gonna do an Oak Ridge shingle
or something like that, or a blandcolor or, or, or charge more for

(48:36):
bullet boots or something like that.
I'm gonna go out, I'm gonnado the best possible thing.
But it's so saturated.
Right, right now where, um.
You know, it's, it's hard to hurt anybody.
Yeah.

Eric (48:46):
I mean, and again, I, I think it goes back to, you know, the, the, the
consumers need to do their research.
Yeah.
Before they just hire anyonewho comes knocking on the door.
You know, it's so important that you makesure that the companies, the contractors,
you know, that these businesses,you know, are going to be there in
a year from Yow, two years from now.
Like, if an issue comes up, like,you know, if you bought the cheapest,

(49:07):
you know, uh, contractor, like, and,and, and, and then they're gone, you
know, in the next year, like, youknow, again, it's gonna cost you so
much more than to vet those peopleand find the high quality contractors
gonna give you the right material.
You know, because again, this,this is foreign to a lot of people.
I, I'm actually going through the processright now to, to, to replace my roof
and, you know, again, there, there'sso many people came out, you know, they

(49:28):
all promised me that they had insurance.
Approve it.
Yeah.
You know, none, none of'em has been able to, um.
But, but the one that, you know, I've,I've ended up going through and, and, and,
and, you know, not just because they usejob trade, but they, they do use job trip.
But like, you know, the owner told mestraight up, he is like, look, you know,
you're, you know, here is the problem.
Here's what we're seeing.
You know, I just like,you got an old roof.
Yeah.
You know, the, the, the shingles,the, you know, the, it's.

(49:51):
It's gonna be very, very hard.
And even if you wait, you know, foranother hailstorm, like it's still gonna
be very difficult to try to get that done.
And he said, you know what we cando, you know, we're not gonna be the
cheapest, but we're gonna make sure,we're gonna give you a Class four roof.
We're gonna make sure that it's installedcorrectly and we are going to set you
up so that you don't have issues, youknow, in a year or two years, and we're
not gonna hit you with change orders.
Yeah.
You know, a lot of times these rooferscome in and they kind of just give

(50:13):
you that lowest possible price, butthen, you know, if you read the fine
print, you know, it's just like.
Bam, we're gonna get you for onething after another change order
after change order after change order.
And it's like, man, like that,that, that does not lead to
a great customer experience.
You know, that, that's,that's gonna feel bad.
You know, you know, right afteryou've signed this contract and you're
immediately hit with a change order, like,you know, it feels like a bait and switch.

(50:34):
Right.
And so, like, I think to the extentthat like, you can be as upfront and
comprehensive from the very beginning,and, and, and again, they, they made
it where it's like, look, you know,we're gonna be honest with you.
When we take these shinglesoff, you got a steep roof.
Like we're, we're probablygonna damage Yeah.
Your gutters.
Yeah.
You know, and so we highly recommendyou, you, you, you put in new gutters
right Now, we can make sure they're theright, you know, size, like get that done.

(50:54):
Right.
Like, but they let it be an option for me.
Yeah.
You know, and so again, in the frontand you knew what you were up against,
so you can make exactly there.
There's nothing worse than surprises,like, you know, but, you know, again,
I, I, I, I think it's, it's greatthat like, you know, you're, you're
not only, you know that this, this,this content, like you're also.
Educating.
Yeah.
You know, and I think more contractorsin general need to take that approach of

(51:14):
like, how can we educate the consumer?
How can we educate the market about whatdoes it mean to have a good shingle?
What does it mean to have goodquality work installed and to get this
done the right way the first time?
You know, so many people don't,you know, they, they again,
but what, what can you do?
I mean, all you know is you, yougot a leak and you need a new roof.
Yeah.
You know, there's not much time.

(51:36):
Yeah.
But it's the companies that willspend the time to educate their,
their, their, their customers and tomake sure that they're comfortable.
I mean, that's how you buildan everlasting relationship.
That's how you win the five star review.
That's it.
That's it.

Kaleb (51:47):
And, uh, and, and I believe in giving everybody the best
right there, the best experience.
And, and not only with yourcompany and how you treat them,
but also, um, your homeowners.
And that's the biggestthing is going out there.
A lady told me, she goes, youwanna know why I went with you?
And I'm like, why?
She goes, because I feel like.
You're family.
Hmm.
I know.

(52:08):
I can trust you.
I was there for like an hour and a half.
I had nothing else but her.
She was my only person.
That's how I wanted her to fill that day.
Yeah.
And even though I had 10 other stopsto make, I, I wasn't checking my phone.
I was like, oh, just sign the paperwork.
I never even brought the paperwork out.
I said, unfortunately, I don'thave any paperwork for you to sign.
We'll have to send you some.

(52:28):
She goes, that's the reason why I wentwith you is because you weren't trying
to just be the sleazy, you know, carsalesman with the click pin, you know, and
chew and your bubble gum and everything.
Hey, it's on here.
You know?
And so just being a real person,being honest with somebody, uh, doing
what you say you're gonna do for 'em.
Yeah.
And that's the biggest thing is to givethat customer experience that every time.
Yeah.

Eric (52:48):
How, how have you navigated the whole, you know, again, we, we've
seen a lot of price fluctuations,you know, a lot of, you know, just
escalating costs, things like that.
Like how, how has that, you know,impacted your business and how have
you been able to mitigate that?

Kaleb (53:01):
Yeah, so, um, so it impacts every business.
And like I said, um, probably out of thelast 20 to 30 roofs that we put on, only
two of them have been the entry level.
Um.
Architectural grade shingle,they've all been duration.
So that cost even a little more.
Yeah.
But fortunately, we have a, we'vegot a good relationship with our

(53:21):
distributor or we've gotten some,a good pricing, so we get a little
bit lower pricing than somebody thatjust walked in off the street now.
And so we're able to do that.
And then coupled with social mediaand building brand awareness, and
remember, I follow a lot of contractors.
So what do contractors buy?
They buy the same materials that I buy.
And so whenever I use amaterial, I post about it.

(53:42):
And so I've gotten some brand recognition,and so I've gotten good deals on synthetic
felts and different things like that.
So you, you pair that with yourpackage that allows you to put a
premium package together at a goodprice that the homeowner can afford.
That's awesome.
You know, and so just buildingthose relationships as you
go is, is how I've done it.

Eric (54:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what about on the labor side?
How, how, how challenginghas it been for you to find.
Great labor, you know,and, and retain them.

Kaleb (54:10):
Yeah.
So like I said, I've been working aroundthis crew for well over 15 years now.
Like they've, they truly feel like family.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like I could have 'em over atany time and we just eat dinner together
and sit on the couch and watch tv.
They feel like that.
And then I try to build that companyculture, not only through my, my office
staff and my salesman and my projectmanagers, but it all, it bleeds all the

(54:33):
way out to letting them fill that companyculture and, and taking care of them.
And, and something that I dois they've told me, you treat
us better by paying us on time.
You know, and I'll tell 'em, Hey, Iwanna pay you this day that you finish.
And so I always try to havetheir check ready for them to go
and then they say, that's okay.
If you've gotta take twoor three days, that's fine.
I'm like, no, you did the work today.

(54:53):
You busted your butt, here's your money.
Um, and, and I pay thedistributor, here's your money.
So keeping those relationshipsall the way through the
company, but what we do is, um.
Kinda like what you guys do hereis we take 'em out several pizzas
or chicken or whatever they want.
We supplement the food they bring.
Yeah.
Um, we take their energy drinks ofchoice that they want, you know,

(55:14):
anything that they want, we take itout to make their life comfortable.
We have a cooling tent on site.
You know, we have the icechest full of drinks for 'em.
Um, and we get out there and we helpthem pick up trash at the end of the day.
Um, a lot of times it's eighto'clock at night and our project
managers are the last ones to leave.
Our guys pull off andthen we leave behind them.

(55:35):
We're not just out there at like three.
It's like, all right, see y'alllater and we're gone for the day.
Yeah.
Which is nothing wrong with that.
And a lot of people do that, but I'mlike, let's build that company culture
to let them know we're here for them.
Yeah.
You know, if it's four 30 and weneed extra shingles, guess what?
I've got a good relationshipwith my distributor.
I can go pick 'em up at the warehouse,take a picture, send them a text message
what I got, and I'm charged the next day.

(55:55):
Nice.
And so building that companyculture all the way through
and treat treating people good.
And uh, that's how I've retained them.
And uh, there's been a couple of timeperiods where everybody got busy because
of a storm or something like that.
And we would want, they would wanderaway a little bit, you know, doing work.
'cause they do work for other guys.
Right.
But, uh, they always say,we wanna come work for you.
That's all 'cause of the way you treat us.

(56:16):
That is so important.
Treating people like humans.

Eric (56:18):
That is, that is, that is such good advice, Caleb.
Like, so, so important.
I, I'm, I'm curious, like if,if you needed to go, you know,
recruit, you know, someone new.
Add another crew.
Like how, how would you go about thatand how would you vet them to know
that they have the skillset and thatthey can live up to the quality that,
that you expect from your current guys?

Kaleb (56:37):
Yeah, that, uh, that kind of breaks my heart to even even
think about using somebody else.
I mean, I love these guys, but it saywe had a hailstorm just blast the area.
I would try to make sure that I couldwait it out with my crew that I have,
but if I just absolutely had to, um,before we even got to building roof,
obviously you talk about price andsquares and are you gonna replace plywood?

(56:59):
But I wanna sit down and just talkto 'em like we're doing right now.
And like, here's what I'm expectingwhen we tear off a roof, we're taking
off all the shingles, all of thefelt, we're inspecting the decking,
you know, we're gonna replace what'sdamaged and then we're gonna build
this system back, you know, and justsee how they feel about that now.
And if it's just no, how cheap,you know, how much can you pay us?

(57:21):
Or whatever.
And, and the first focus is money.
But not what we're actuallydoing to get to the money.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And that's it.
Just be a human.
Yeah.
And just sit there and talk with them.
And then let's do a couple ofjobs and let's see how it is.
And then how well do you workwith the project managers?
How well do we work with you?
Yeah.
Is there any clashing there?
You

Eric (57:39):
know, uh, we might not be the fit for each other.
Yeah.
I, I love that.
And, you know, I, I, I thinkagain, it's, it's so important
that people take their time.
To make sure that anyone they're bringinginto their company, you know, is, is,
is, is going to embody those core values.
Those, those things that, you know,the, the tenets of your, your, your
business and who you are and the culture.
Yeah.
You know, that is, that is so importantthat, that they, that they're gonna be

(58:02):
a good fit culturally, you know, butthen again, spending the time to, to,
to bring them out into the field and letthem work with the other guys to make
sure that, you know, it's, it's, it'seasy for someone to show up and put on
their game, face and do an interview,but like, at the end of a hard day.
Yeah.
What's that person's face gonna look like?
Are they gonna be someone thatyou're gonna want to go grab
a beer with or grab a bite?
Like Yeah.
You know, is that person truly like, youknow, going to be a family member, like,

(58:26):
you know, and, and, and, and, and justbe a good addition to the culture, you
know, I think sounds like that's, that'sthe right formula in, in, in my opinion.
So I, to everyone out there listening,like, you know, when, when you need
to make sure that you're building theright team, you know, take the time.
To vet them and make sure they'regonna be a good, a good team member.

Kaleb (58:42):
So that's what I do is just remember this, it's an old saying,
uh, your, your organization oryour family or your team is only
as strong as the weakest link now.
And so what is that wink EST linkor that newest person need when
they come into the organization?
They need your time, yourtraining, your energy, your effort.
And that's why I love the companysize that I am now is 'cause if I

(59:03):
bring a new salesman on, guess what?
He's riding with me.
He's gonna get in my head,I'm gonna get in his head.
We're gonna learn each other, andthis is how we talk to our customers,
and this is how we treat our crew.
You know, our, our, our project managers.
This is, this is what we doand we go the extra mile.
And if they're talk, if they're not,if they're not walking the walk and,
and talking the talk, uh, then this

Eric (59:23):
might not be the company, not for them.
Absolutely.
Well, man, this has beensuper insightful, Caleb.
Like, as, as we wrap up, like, justcurious, like, you know, what, what
just general advice would you giveto others, you know, if, if, if, if
you had to start all over today, likewhat do you wish you would've known?
Starting this business?
Like what, what moves would you makeearly on that, you know, you, you might
advise, you know, someone who's, youknow, earlier on or thinking about

(59:46):
starting a business who wants to followin your, in your footsteps and be
able to build something successful.
Absolutely.

Kaleb (59:51):
Um, number one is making sure that you're, you know, everybody
starts a business 'cause they wannamake 'em more money or, you know,
uh, I'm tired of working for thisguy, I know I can do it myself.
And so making sure before you makethat move, that you've counted the
cost to get there and that you'reputting in the effort to get there.
And the number one thing thata construction company, but a

(01:00:14):
roofing company needs is, likeI said earlier, clear financial
strategy and goals and concepts.
And if you don't have that, anybodycan get together and put a company
together and just start goingand do work and have cash flow.
Right?
But what are you doing with that?
That financial clarity is numberone, not commingling funds.

(01:00:34):
The next thing is making surethat you're, you're licensed,
you're insured, you're bonded.
Anything that's required in thatyour municipality or your state or
you know, that your organizationrequires, because at the end of the
day, anybody can go do the work.
But what happens to the, the, the team?
What happens to the con, the, the, uh,homeowners if you go outta business

(01:00:56):
because you didn't have all of yourinsurances and you weren't paying
your taxes and, and because you werecommingling your funds or you didn't
have bookkeeping or, or, or somebodytook advantage of you and took $200,000
from you, or, you know, these things.
So having that as your nucleus, uh, mydad used to say the two most important
things on a structure, whether it's ahome or a commercial building or what

(01:01:18):
the foundation, what you're building on.
So you spend good money on the foundationof your company and then the roof
of it, you don't want that leaking.
And so I like to say clear financial,uh, um, clarity down here at the bottom
is your foundation, and then your salesis up here because ultimately sales are
what draw the, the cash flow in, right?
But it's how you build company culture.

(01:01:39):
In between there you live breathesyour, your company, um, you
know, lives and breathes withyou and how you're doing that.
You do that right?
And, and you're off to the races,

Eric (01:01:49):
man, that is.
Awesome, awesome advice.
Caleb, I, I really appreciate youcoming, spending the time with us today.
Yeah.
You know, sharing this insight, yourbackstory, it's, it's, it's truly has been
an honor and a privilege, you know, havingthe relationship and getting to work
so closely with you, with Andrea, liketo see, you know, your success over the
years has been really exciting as well.
And, you know, even to just, just bea little fly on the wall watching you

(01:02:10):
grow and how you built this, like,you're doing it the right way and
you're setting, you know, such a greatexample and being a great role model
for everyone else in the industry.
So we're just, I, I'm just so gratefulto have you part of this community and
for everything that you've done for us,you know, and, and that you're doing
for, for other roofers and buildersout there, you know, it, it really does

(01:02:30):
matter and it, and it makes an impact.
So thank you sir, for, for that.
Yeah.
And for everything.

Kaleb (01:02:35):
Yeah.
Thank you, Eric, forbeing part of our family.
And, and, and being there forus when we needed it the most.
And, and, and for opening Your Doors, isthis like the first podcast in, in Person?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, a couple.
We've done a couple of 'em, but yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So yeah, a couple of them.
But, uh, the way you treated mewhen I came in today, it, it was
like I was a, a family memberand, and the whole place is open.

(01:02:56):
I just, I really appreciate that.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad to have you.
Yeah.

Eric (01:03:00):
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please
contact [e-mail].

(01:03:20):
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.
I.