Scaling & Leading a Team

Babak Nikraftar started in construction in 2001 after attending school in Vancouver. His first role was redoing faulty building envelopes on condos in the Pacific Northwest. He then returned to school to study construction management and later joined a local high-rise developer.

Today, Nikraftar runs two companies: Forte Projects which focuses on new construction and CondoWorks for condo remodels and interior design. In this episode, Nikraftar shares how early lessons in construction failures shaped the way he builds today. He discusses how he leads his team, makes new hires, and structures two businesses for long-term growth.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• How Nikraftar built a rigorous, multi-step hiring system that filters candidates through applications, timed testing, video submissions, and core values alignment
• What it takes to lead a team with structure, not control
• What to consider when building complementary businesses under the same leadership
• A simple formula Babak uses to decide when it's time make a new hire
• How implementing EOS brought clarity, accountability, and direction to the team

Listen to the episode to learn more.

Resources:

Learn more about CondoWorks Transformations here and Forte Projects Ltd here.

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories

(00:03):
behind construction business leaders.
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
How's it going, everybody?
Today I'm here with BabakNikraftar Did I say it right?

(00:23):
That's correct.
Yes.
New crafter.
All right.
And, uh, Babak, he is the ownerand founder of Condo Works,
as well as Forte Projects.
They are located in Vancouver, Canada.
Really excited to haveyou on the show today.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Thanks for having me, Eric.
I'm super excited to be here.
Awesome.
Well, why don't you go ahead andgive us a little bit of, uh, your,
your background and, you know,how'd you get into construction?

(00:45):
What led you to, to start yourcompanies, what do they do?
Things like that For sure.

Babak (00:50):
Uh.
I started in constructionessentially in the year 2001.
So now we're going back 24 years ago.
It's kind of hard tobelieve it's been that long.
Uh, when I, when I look backwards,um, I went to a polytechnical school
here in Vancouver, uh, called BCIT.
Essentially, I, uh, I wanted to getinto, to be an architect originally.

(01:11):
When I found out how long it takesto be an architect, I just said, no,
that's not the right I want to go.
Also, I'm the kid that played inthe sand and in the dirt and always
got dirty and I was always buildingstuff, uh, in, in the backyard.
So, um, luckily I found a program thatwas more related to, uh, building,
construction and things like that.
Uh, when I exited that school in2001, I, uh, specialized in building

(01:35):
envelope specialist, uh, out herein the, uh, Pacific Northwest.
We essentially live in a rainforest.
And, um, in the eighties andnineties, a lot of architects locally
had decided to build homes, uh,using the California aesthetics.
So lots of stucco, lots of, uh, youknow, windows that were flush mount
to the stucco, but you can't reallydo that in a rainforest environment.

(01:58):
So about seven to 10 yearslater, all these buildings
started essentially leaking.
Uh, so we went through the whole leakycondo syndrome that, uh, Pacific Northwest
has still, there's some buildings outthere that needs to be reworked on.
It's where all the cladding comesoff and all the windows come off and
everything gets redone and, uh, whatwe call rain screening out here.
So I started out as a tech, uh, beingon the job sites and monitoring as,

(02:23):
uh, the contractors basically removedall the windows and stucco and just
saw the amount of damage it had doneto the wood structure, uh, or if
it was a steel stud, uh, finishes.
So that was a really good lessonfor me to understand on what bad
detailing could do in construction.
So.
In a sense, I got to see theworst of the worst, uh, upfront.

(02:45):
Uh, I did that for about twoyears and then I realized it's
not really my bread and butter.
This is not the direction I want to go.
Um, so I went back to school, finishedoff a construction management degree
in the same school that I went to, and,uh, ended up getting a job with a local
developer who builds high rises here.
Uh, they've been around forabout 30, 40 years at the time.

(03:05):
And, uh, I just neededmy foot in the door.
So the first position I got with themwas a customer service specialist.
And really what that meant is,uh, you handed gift baskets to the
homeowners who were waiting two yearsfor their condos to be completed
and finished or, or their homes.
And you know, I was thisguy that was 24 years old.
I'd walk in there with a big giftbasket and then we do a walk around

(03:27):
and do a deficiency walkthrough.
And then I would pass thosedeficiencies on to our deficiency crew.
Then monitor back andforth with the client.
Uh, you take that emultiplied by like 150 units.
Uh, it adds up.
It's, it's a lot of work.
But what that taught me was about thecustomer service side of things, and
also going back to quality control.

(03:48):
So as time went on, I asked thedeveloper, I said, Hey, can you get me
outta this position and put me on thejob sites, uh, so that I am in there
catching stuff a little bit sooner?
Lucky enough, they had a phase twoof the towers getting built at the
time and they threw me in there.
Uh, there was a shortage of, uh, people.
I basically bumped up from a customerservice quality assurance guide

(04:09):
to an assistant site super, veryquickly, um, had imposter syndrome.
I'm not gonna lie.
I was 26 years old.
Uh, you know, taking positions of guysthat were in the industry for 15, 20
years and telling people that weremore than twice my age what to do.
So.
It was a sink or swim moment.
And so, so I jumped right in.
That taught me a lot about managementand the construction process and also

(04:32):
just, uh, the construction site culture.
Uh, when you're on a highrise buildingand there's like two towers getting
built, uh, you got concrete trucks,you got rebar guys, you got frame, you
got, you got a whole slew of trades,maybe up to 200 people there per day.
It's a little bit of a different culturethan say what an office setting would be.
So, um, that's where I cut my teethin learning a lot about construction.

(04:54):
And then, uh, in 2009, as you know, theeconomic, uh, you know, downturn came
in and, uh, I was one of the ones letgo because, uh, I had to kind of work my
way up too quickly and I was, uh, givena salary of somebody senior, so it was
easy to chop me off, which was okay.
After that, I went to workfor another developer who does

(05:15):
similar things but in wood frame.
So I didn't have the experiencein the wood frame sector.
So when I went to this new co company,I learned a lot about company culture
and um, how you don't need to havesilos between the office and the
construction site, which is quite,uh, prevalent in our industry.
Uh, that company made it a pointto make sure that, uh, the office

(05:36):
people and the site people werepretty much aligned together.
We'd have team meetings between theoffice and the sites quite frequently,
uh, to the point where we had, uh, thisprogram called Construction 1 0 1, where
the office people would come to thejob site and we would give them tours
and we'd explain to them, this is howthis is done, this is why this is done.
And, uh, in reverse we would go intothe office and we would learn from them,

(05:58):
you know, the accounting side of things.
Why do we need to code, uh, paperwork and,and do the administration side of things
as much as construction guys hate that.
So that's where I gained a lot of mycore values and it actually taught me
that, hey, construction can be funded.
It doesn't need to be siloed and such.
And then on the advice ofthe owner of that company, I
went out on my own in 2014.
I took a huge gamble and a risk of myself.

(06:21):
And, uh, decided to buy a piece ofland with a friend of mine who's an
architect, and we, he designed it.
I built the whole thing.
I literally went to about two yearswithout any income, uh, living
off of lines of credit, creditcards with the hopes that when
we build this duplex that we did.
That we would sell it and Iwould recoup all that cash back.
So it was a very, very tough time.

(06:42):
Um, it was also around the time Imet my wife and game became engaged.
So, uh, so I was basicallyputting all my eggs in one basket.
Uh, luckily it turned out for the better.
And so when we sold that firstproject in 2016, uh, we did
another one and another one.
And then from there, what I was doingduring the building process was I
was bringing in friends, realtors,anybody from my network just to

(07:05):
showcase what we're all about.
From that we basically gained a bunchof client, uh, projects and slowly
that materialized into becoming a gc.
Uh, so in 2018, I formed Forte Projects,me and my former business partner split.
And um, I noticed that there's amarket segment that keeps asking for

(07:25):
renovations or remodeling to be done.
And, uh, those were in the condo sector.
And because I had the condobackground, I decided to create a
secondary brand called Condo Works.
And so the idea was when people go toGoogle, uh, they don't need to find
a builder to work on their condo.
So I thought that therewould be a market for this.
And that sort of translated intowhen COVID started and obviously

(07:48):
everybody was cooped up in their homes.
Uh, COVID gave us a hugeupturn on the condo side.
Uh, to be quite frank with you,like that side of our, our business
has been more successful, uh,than, than our home building side.
And so, but, but the problem was I wasstill using things like Excel sheets
and I didn't have a proper bookkeeper.

(08:09):
The coding wasn't there'cause I was a one man show.
Um, so I had to learn a lot of hardlessons, a lot of failures, and
uh, basically learn to outsourceand hire the right people.
And, um.
Eventually I stumbled onto Job Tread,uh, which was in 20, that was in January,
2024 when we implemented job tread.
But prior to that, Ihad tried build a trend.

(08:31):
I had tried co-construct and unfortunatelythere was just too much of a learning
curve, too many moving pieces thatweren't, you know, helpful to us.
But, um, I, I can say as of January,2024 when we actually implemented Job
Tread and all of last year and this year,like our business has pretty much grown.
North of 75% in top line revenue,and it just keeps growing.

(08:53):
And I, and I have to attribute a lot ofthat to the fact that Job Check gave us
the systems and the confidence to be ableto handle more projects and more people.
Uh, we're a team of 11 peopleright now, um, including myself.
And, uh, we're looking to hireprobably two to three more
people by the end of the year.
And, um, you know, that'swhere we are right now.
That's

Eric (09:13):
awesome.
Love, love the, uh, love the story, man.
I mean, starting off, uh, you know,working, working from customer service,
uh, you know, specialists there allthe way up to, you know, being a
site super to learning the trades.
I mean, you, you literally started fromthe ground floor and learned and earned
your way, you know, to, to, I thinkreally have that in depth understanding

(09:35):
of, you know, what it takes to.
To be in the field, what it takes tobe in the back office, what it takes to
build a great company culture, and then,you know, had had the opportunity and,
and took the risk to go out on your own.
Man, that's, uh, that's awesome.
That's, that's the, the,the dream come true.

Babak (09:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, it, it, it, it's, it's howdoes peaks and valleys and, um, you know,
one thing I've learned is you grow inthe valleys, uh, when you're in those.
You hit rock bottom, you know, you gottamake payroll, you gotta pay trades.
Uh, clients may not be payingyou and things like that.
It toughens you up.
It really toughens you up and it, andit really teaches you, okay, well I

(10:13):
can't keep operating like this anymore.
Yeah.
Um, so, so yeah.
So all those things puttogether, I'm still learning.
I'm nowhere near where I should be.
I'm still learning.
And, uh, that's the beauty of this is.
One of our core values is, uh,you should have a growth mindset.
And so the, the text underneath thatgrowth mindset is be like a tree,

(10:33):
always be growing and learning.
Um, and we really, reallyfoster that in our culture.

Eric (10:39):
So when you, you know, when you decided to go out on your own,
I mean, you know, I, and again, I.
All the companies I'vestarted, I did the same thing.
Didn't pay myself for,you know, multiple years.
You know, until you can, youknow, you can afford to do it.
And, you know, how, how did youthough, like that, that, that, that
had to have been super, you know.
Scary.
Like how did you decide that you hadenough, you know, to be able to survive,

(11:01):
you know, without getting that paycheck?
Because, you know, I, I see a lot ofpeople who, you know, they're, they're
extremely talented, but they feel stuck,you know, in their current job doing
something that, you know, maybe theylove what they're doing, but they just,
you know, they don't like the culture,they don't like the, the people or,
you know, or maybe they're in the wrongrole, you know, whatever it may be.
And it's like, you know, they,they, they, they have that kind of.

(11:21):
Itch to go out on their own,but they, they just, they can't
pull the trigger, you know?
How did you, how did you feel confidentenough to be able to pull that trigger
to know that, look, if you don'tget paid, how are you gonna live?

Babak (11:32):
Yeah, I mean, I had, uh, I had, I had a motivator and one of the motivators
was, uh, when the crash of 2019 happened,or sorry, 2009 happened, a market crash.
Um, I had overextended myselffinancially and, uh, I was super in debt.
Like we're talking close to a hundred k.At the time, and, um, when I went to work

(11:54):
for the second developer, I realized thatI can't make this money up on a salary.
So I spent a tremendous amountof time and, and this is, you
know, I, I don't wanna, um.
Not point this point out, but, uh, I spenta lot of time on personal development.
I listened to a lot of audiobooks, uh, people like Jim Roh,
John Maxwells, uh, Tony Robbins,uh, a lot of business people.

(12:19):
And, uh, it helped shift my mind state.
And, uh, at the same time, I decidedto take out all the CEOs of our company
and go for lunch with them, becausethat's sort of the advice I was given.
I had no fear.
I had feared to do it, but Ihad no fear asking him for it.
And when we did meet up, um, RobMcCarthy, he's the owner of, of the,

(12:41):
one of the development companies, andI give him a shout out, uh, literally
during lunch he said, go out on your own.
And I go, well, how do I do this?
What if I fail?
He goes, who cares?
Do it again.
And he said, it's so nonchalantly.
And if that word, those words camefrom anybody else, they wouldn't
have, it had as much impact on me.
But I looked up to 'em so much.
Uh, and I go, well, how do I start?

(13:01):
I don't even have money.
He goes, borrow money.
You know, he goes, go outthere and tell people that, uh,
this is the skillset you have.
I, something about his words reallyresonated with me, and, um, I'm like,
you know what, I'm gonna do this.
So I paid for a couple of coursesto learn how to do performance
and how to run budgets, and,uh, there was all out of pocket.

(13:22):
And, and very frankly, I, I couldn'treally afford those, but I paid for them.
And, um, I remember going to thebank one day with a performer and
saying, look, it was a piece of land.
We wanna build this.
Here's what we want to do.
And she just looks at me, shegoes, but you're so young.
What do you think you'll be doing?
And I'm like, am I?
She goes, yeah, usually there'sguys twice your age doing this.

(13:42):
And I go, well, give me a shot.
You know?
Uh, needless to say, thatdidn't work out, but.
There's a book that really madean impact on me and it was, uh,
think and Grow Rich at the time.
And, uh, I had an audiobook and Ikept listening over and over to it.
And I remember trying to make phonecalls to people to borrow money from
them as an investment so that they couldbelieve in me and let me just keep going.

(14:06):
I remember literally not picking upthe phone to make the call, and I just
said, Hey, remember what the book said?
You know, you have to face your fears,you have to face your fears, and really
when you do a few of those and thenyou get rejected multiple times, you
just have to remember to not let therejections, uh, bring you down and use
the rejection as a stepping stone to thenext, the next person might say, yes.

(14:31):
When the first person did say yesand gave me $50,000 to invest, it was
like, whoa, this is actually happening.
But now I have to deliver on it.
That's the next hard part.
Um, so like I said, I went poorfor two years and um, I paid
back everybody that I could.
It was a big risk 'cause we didn't knowwhich direction the market was going
and, uh, it helped just gimme thatlittle boost of confidence that I needed.

(14:54):
Um, but.
It's not easy.
It's, it's, if I were to summarize, itwould be like, uh, personal development.
Uh, surround yourself with peoplewho believe in you and who give
you the confidence that you needand, and just educate yourself.

Eric (15:09):
No, I mean, I, I love that and I think you're so right.
I mean, just the, it's, it's, it's,it's a mindset thing that if, you know,
if you believe in yourself, if you'reconfident, if you wake up every day
ready to tackle the world and excited,you know, to, to get after it, believing
that you can achieve success, seeing avision for yourself, being successful,
like that's what it takes, you know,I mean, you, you know, often, you

(15:30):
know one person next to, to another.
Like, there there's no difference.
They both have the, the, the abilities,but it's, it's about who's gonna choose.
To, to put themselves in the role togo and to do it, you know, versus just
thinking about doing it or thinkingabout not doing it or being worried
or letting your fears or anxiety orwhatever, you know, hold you back.
Like you, you gotta just tackle ithead on and, you know, dive in and.

(15:53):
I love how, you know, you, you soughtit, you know, to go get that personal
development, to find, you know,how can you, you know, learn those
skills that you may not have, but youknow, that you need to strengthen.
And, and I'm a big proponent, I mean, Itell everyone, like, whether you've been
in business for, you know, for, for ayear, five years, 10 years, or, you know,
zero days wanting to get into business.
Like, you gotta build a financialmodel and understand like, what

(16:15):
does this look like in your mind?
Like if you want to achieve, you know.
X, you know, if you want to hit X inrevenue or if you wanna make Y in in
net income, like what do you need to doback into it and figure out like, what
will it take for me to be successful?
You know, here's whatI'm gonna pay myself.
And even if it's nothinggreat, put that in the model.
You know, eventually you wantto be able to pay yourself.

(16:35):
If you know, if you need to hirepeople, put that in your model.
Like understand, likefinancially, how are you going to.
Forward to do this so that, youknow, you, you, you've got kind
of this, this path forward.
You know, I feel like so many peoplekind of just blindly, you know, get
into it and start a business, but theydon't have this like, you know, great,
you know, kind of set of directions.
Like they're just kind of churning andthey don't understand like, why, you

(16:58):
know, the things aren't falling in place.
And it's like, well you gotta planfor those things to fall in place
and then you gotta take the rightactions and focus on the right KPIs.
And it sounds like, you know, youwent and, and, and got that sort
of, that background that, that,that education that you needed.
To build those pro forma modelsto show, Hey, look, here's what
I'm gonna do with that investment.
Here's how we're gonnaput that money to work.
Here's what you should expect in return.

(17:19):
Like, you know, when you had that, youknow, education and that ability to do
that, you know, that probably helped youa whole lot more to be able to convince
people to give some, you know, somerandom person, you know, 50, a hundred,
you know, thousand dollars checks.

Babak (17:32):
That's it.
Yeah.
The, uh, the, the mindset part.
Yeah.
You just touched on.
It's huge.
It's huge.
Uh.
It's, we're for some reason we justhave this limited, uh, capability in
our mindset that we've, somewhere inour teen years or whatever it was in our
development of become an adult, has setin and we set up a ceiling for ourselves.
Um, we think this is how much weshould make because that's what

(17:54):
a typical salary is, or this iswhat our position is in life.
And, and sometimes you just needthose people that have made it, that
are 20 steps ahead of you to lookback and, and believe in you and give
you that, that boost of confidence.
But then.
It's not on them anymore,it's on you after that.
It's how badly do you want it?
And uh, like I said, it took me a longtime to reshift my mind frame and, and go

(18:18):
through that whole personal development.
And I was introverted at onepoint, believe it or not.
So I, I, I, I wasn't good in crowds.
And, and I'm like, I gotta work on that.
I gotta work on building myselfup and learning how to talk, you
know, like, look at so and so.
When I saw them in a setting, I'mlike, I wanna be like that person.
Be able to walk up, shake hands.
That takes time.
But unless you take that initiative, youknow, it's just not gonna happen for you.

Eric (18:40):
Absolutely.
And so the, the first company, so,so Forte projects, that was kind
of the, the, the home building,uh, company, is that right?
Really focused on ground up development?

Babak (18:51):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, um, forte projects essentiallywe're a licensed builder here.
Uh, you have to go througha, a whole procedure in, in
Canada to, to become a builder.
You have to take courses every year.
X amount of points you have to earn.
Um, and then you have to getinsurance and all that stuff.
So Forte Projects is designedso that we can work on single
detached homes or multiplexes, uh,building them from the ground up.

(19:14):
Um, and so that's what we mainly focus on.
Although, to be very frank, because ofthe condo work site has kept us so busy.
I. Put a lot of my energy into that one.
I'm now, now the condo work siteis self-sustainable, meaning we
have enough of a referral circleand enough of a network that we,
we get consistent work coming in.

(19:35):
This is the year where I'm shiftingmy attention back to Forte and being
like, okay, let's, let's, uh, putsome fuel in this engine and just
put our foot on the, the pedal.

Eric (19:44):
Sure.
If, if you were to, you know, start allover again, would you have started with
the, the renovations business first?
Um.

Babak (19:54):
Probably, probably, um, yeah, yeah.
I, I would say the renovation isa little easier because there's
a lot more demand for that.
Um, and then eventually work my wayinto the, the home building side.
Yeah.
So, so I'd say probably a little biteasier to get into the, the renovations.

Eric (20:14):
Yeah.
I mean, is that, you know,again, kind of even just.
The inbound leads, you know, being ableto kind of set up that, that pipeline to
attract new customers, things like that.
I mean, you found that to be a lot, youknow, kind of easier to get going just
because of the demand, or were thereother aspects like, I mean, are do you
find those projects to be, you know, tobe easier or higher profit or kind of,

(20:36):
how do you, how do you sort of evaluateeverything other than just the demand?

Babak (20:40):
Yeah, so I, I wanna say they're easier because with renovations,
you're opening up walls, you haveno idea what's happening back there,
so you're always in for a surprise.
Uh, whereas new builds you have,you started with a clean, clean
canvas essentially, and you are incontrol of how to make that work.
Um, so that's one thing.
The other part of it is, uh,

(21:03):
especially where we live in thispart of the world, um, just.
Cost of living is super expensive.
Land is very expensive.
Vancouver is one of the most expensivecities in North America right now.
Uh, so you don't get as manypeople trying to build new homes.
Uh, so a lot of people have livedin their places that they purchased
maybe 20, 30, 40 years ago.
They were handouts from their parentsand they have a lot of equity built

(21:25):
into it, but not enough equity to.
Tear the whole house downand build from scratch.
Yeah.
Uh, so, so for them it's a less amountof risk to take the existing bones of
the structure, maybe add another flooror redo everything on the interior
and, and change maybe the windows andall the siding and things like that.
So I'd say it's a bit of a largermarket, uh, but it's also susceptible

(21:48):
to imposters or people trying to, uh,showcase that they're contractors.
So learning to distinguish yourselffrom those people is, is huge.
Um.
And just finding theright clientele as well.
Uh, in the beginning when you're new,you take on anything and everything.
I think we all can attest tothat, but eventually as time goes

(22:08):
on, you'll learn to niche outand focus on the right people.
And there's also a filtrationprocess of going through a bunch of
different subs that we deal with.
Uh, sometimes, uh, subs let youdown or they don't give you the
quality they needed, or maybe theyover exaggerated their, uh, you
know, their capabilities and so.
As time goes on, you, you get thatfiltration and as your team becomes

(22:29):
stronger and you become stronger as, asa, as a business or a renovator, then
you can take on more, uh, robust jobsand much more, better clientele and
be able to say no to a bunch of othersthat previously you would suggest to.

Eric (22:42):
Sure.
Are there have, have you, have youfound like kind of certain sort of,
uh, you know, red flags or just kindof, you know, things that you're
looking for that sort of at this pointyou're, you know, you're fortunate
enough to be able to say, you know, Ijust don't think we're the right fit.

Babak (22:56):
Absolutely.
So, um,
I've mustered up the courage now to askpeople very early in the game, you know,
I let them know that we're about todate each other for the next few months.
We need to make sure we're the right fit.
Um, what is more important to you?
Is it communication?
Is it your people?
Is it the end product?
Is it the whole experience?

(23:18):
And where do you put, uh, money on the,on the whole, uh, spectrum of that?
And if I discover that people arelooking for the cheapest person, at
the end of the day, I just have avery honest conversation with them.
And I say, listen, we'renot gonna be the cheapest.
We're not gonna be probably themost expensive either, but here's
what we bring to the table and thisis why we charge what we charge.

(23:39):
And uh, when I do that, thenum, it completely changes who
our clientele are going to be.
And um, it just makes it a lot simplerfor us to, to filter through that.

Eric (23:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
What's the team look like today?
And and do you keep, are these twoentirely separate companies and
teams or like, do you have any sortof shared, you know, back office
resources or anything like that?
Right.
So

Babak (24:05):
up to about a year and a half ago, two years ago now almost,
we had two separate entities.
Condo Works was a separate entity,as was Forte, but what we did was,
uh, we decided to bring everythingunder one umbrella because it was
becoming super administrative heavy.
Going back and forth.
So now we say condo works doing businessas forte projects or vice versa.

(24:25):
Uh, once we've attracted theright clientele, we just explain
to them, look at moving forward.
Everything is going to beunder forte projects or your
billing, invoicing and such.
Our employees are all shared betweenboth sides, as are all of our suppliers
and our vendors and subcontractors too.
So everything is under one umbrella.
Um, I'm.

(24:45):
At the top.
I don't like the word CEO, althoughmy integrator keeps calling me a CEO.
Uh, so I, I refer to myself as thefounder or as the company owner.
Uh, founder is a little bit better.
Um, and then we've got an in-housefull-time bookkeeper that takes
care of all our paperwork.
That's one thing I learned over time.
It's, uh, I also learned at a jobtread connect this past January when

(25:07):
a couple of people were said theyhad their own in-house bookkeeper.
I'm like, okay, that'swhat I need to bring in.
We've got, uh, two projectmanagers that run the projects.
Um, and then under themwe have four field people.
And then we also have a, acoordinator slash purchaser right now.
And her job is basically thewhole procurement process.

(25:27):
When the job starts, she quoteseverything for us, uh, gets it set up in
our, uh, job tread, uh, app, and then,uh, orders everything and make sure
they're all the project, uh, timelinesand schedules are updated as well.
Um, and so that's wherewe're at right now.
Uh, we're at the point wherewe've maximized the amount of
office staff, so to say that weneed, um, our next progression

(25:51):
is going to be more site people.
And then at this point wekind of know the formula.
The formula is 1:00 PM onepurchaser, two site people.
That can handle probably up tolike, say, $3 million worth of work.
And so if we keep going at thispace, that's going to be our cut and
paste formula moving, moving forward.
Nice.

(26:11):
How how'd you, how'd you figure that out?
Trial and error.
Um, it's, you know, when you're runninga business, one of the toughest thing
is you have the chicken and the egg.
You're like, well, do I hiresomeone and pay this salary?
But I don't have enough work.
Somehow magically, if you plannedit out correctly, when you hire
that person to work appears, andthen that person takes that workload

(26:34):
and then you're like, oh shoot.
We need another PM now, orWe need another site helper.
And so it's been a lotof that back and forth.
I'm also part of the EOS, uh, whichI dunno if you're familiar with it,
which entrepreneurs organization.
And one of the things they taught usover there is to build a hierarchy
or a structure of your team.
And so we mapped out, uh, you know, perpm they need two helpers and a purchaser.

(26:58):
And uh, this year was a record breakingyear for us, and we really got tested
on how many projects can a team handle.
We landed on four to fiveprojects in that, uh, sort of
two and a half to 3 million mark.
And you know, every time I try topush another job to the team, they
basically told me that's enough stop.
But that's how I learned.

(27:18):
So yeah, that's all we can do.

Eric (27:20):
That's great.
You know, and again, I thinkthat's where just taking some
time to sort of try to plan out.
What does your growth look like?
You know, kind of, um, financiallyfrom a cashflow standpoint, from, you
know, a, you know, number of projects.
Can someone actually sell?
Can someone actually manage, like, youknow, you can't overload the team to the
point where they just get really burnedout and discouraged, but you also can't

(27:41):
have people that are, you know, justsitting around, you know, doing nothing.
Like, you gotta really kind oflook at that, you know, that,
that, that efficiency metric.
You know what?
Amount of revenue.
Is each person contributing?
What gross profit are they contributing?
Like, how are theyaffecting the bottom line?
And I think that's where, you know,it sounds like you've, you've done
a really good job just kind ofstudying, you know, the, the, the data.
Both, you know, quantitativeand qualitative.

(28:03):
Like how, how is this workload, youknow, working out for the business?
And so now you've got a nice formulawhere you know, again, every, every kind
of next, next stage that you want togrow at, you just bring on that, that,
that sub team, that unit right there.
And that's awesome, man.
I, I, I, I love how too,you know, dialed in.
You've got that.

Babak (28:20):
Yeah, thank you.
I mean, it's, it's, uh,it's not an overnight thing.
It's taken us a while to figure it out.
And, uh, you know, when I listen to a lotof your podcasts, uh, and other, other
builders that are on here, I've had myshare of hiring the wrong people as well
and spending a tremendous amount of salaryand, and time on them, and then realizing,
yeah, quite frankly, they were duds.
So, so we didn't get here, uh.

(28:43):
In a quick manner, but there was a lot ofpitfalls before we got to, to this stage.
So, so what, what does yourhiring process look like?
That's, uh, great question.
Uh, so about a year ago, I hired anintegrator, and for those who are familiar
with the EOS system, uh, an integratoris essentially somebody who becomes, uh.
They're kind of the second in command.

(29:04):
They're in charge of basically takingthe ideas from the vi what's called
the visionary, which I didn't know as avisionary until, again, two years ago when
I read a a, a book called Rocket Fuel.
And um, basically I'm the one with theideas and I pass it on to my integrator,
Shannon, and she puts systems togetheror steps together, and she says,

(29:24):
okay, this is what we're going to do.
So she's built thisonline application system.
Now, when people want to apply for ajob, they have to meet a set of criteria
first, and then they put their resume in.
Uh, some on, for some positionswill require them to add a little
video, like how to a minutedescribing themselves and such.
Uh, if they pass that first part wherethey have all the credentials, then

(29:45):
they have to get, take an online test.
And the test is a time test, uh, that,uh, you know, she's more familiar
with all the different aspects of it.
I've taken a test myself.
I didn't like it personally because it,when you look at the clock and you're
just under pressure, you are like,ah, this, this is not the best thing.
But what that has helped us do is reallyfilter out people and then if they

(30:07):
go through that test and everythingturns out, then they go through
another interview process in person.
And then if, uh, by that time, let's sayif we had 50 applicants, we'll be down
to maybe half a dozen applicants or 10.
And then once she filters throughthem, it's going to be between two
to three applicants, and then itcomes down to myself and my PMs.

(30:27):
And, uh, we sort of decide and ratepeople based on our final interview.
So it is quite rigorous.
We've been told that by our newemployees that we use under that system.
But it's, it's like the gauntlet,like if you go through the whole
thing and you pass every system,it's like, come join the team.
Um, and so.
I've learned that, like I said, thehard way, but it's such a good system.

(30:49):
We also employ this, uh, thistest called the Working Genius.
Uh, there's a book about it and Shannonintroduced me about it and basically
it, it's six personality types.
By the time you do that test, it tellsyou what two personalities you have.
So we've identified, uh, which positionsrequire which personalities and.
There's nothing better than whenyou hire the person and you look

(31:11):
at their working genius' roles.
You're like, yes.
Like we got the right person here.
So, uh, that it's, it's been quiteenlightening for me to learn that, uh,
going through Shannon over the past year.

Eric (31:21):
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
And, and again, I, I thinkthat that is the way to do it.
I mean, it's, you, you gotta hire slowly.
Take your time to get to knowthese people, make sure that
they're gonna be a good fit.
You know, so, so many times I seepeople just immediately rush to hire
the first person that, that applies.
Just 'cause they feel like any warm bodywill, will be better than kind of whatever
they're, you know, the overwhelmed,you know, feelings they've got or,

(31:43):
or, or, or the places they need 'em.
And it's like that, that's just not thecase, you know, that can just cost you
so much time and money in the long run.
To put the wrong people in place.
And it sounds like you've, you'velearned that lesson the hard way as well.

Babak (31:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's human nature, right?
You have jobs coming in and you'relike, oh, that person looks good.
I saw them so and so letme bring them on board.
And it, it takes, doesn't takevery much time to realize, oh
crap, you know, we're stuck in thissituation with this individual.
Uh, but we also have the core values.
Like we actually look at the corevalues and we, when we run it by
people, we're, we're trying to seeif they, their eyes light up or not.

(32:18):
Um, and, and we also post ourcore values on every job site.
And, um, the, I think I sent you a copyand they're super detailed and, and if
you look at someone and they read it andyou just ask 'em, well, what do you think?
Just by their response, you can tellif this is the right fit or not.
Um, and so that's also beena, a little secret weapon that

(32:38):
we've had in our back pocket.

Eric (32:40):
That's awesome.
And, and, and so just to kind of,you know, go, go through those, I
mean, so you, you've got be kind.
Over deliver.
Always do the right thing.
Be proud of your work.
Unmatched presentation.
Succeed together and growth mindset.
So I'm, I'm curious, how, how did you, howdid you come up with these core values?

(33:03):
Like, what was, what was the processto, to narrow it down, to choose
those things and like, kind oflike, yeah, h how did this, you
know, how, how did this come about?
Because I love how flushed out, youknow, you've, you've got these and
I've, and I've seen how you've reallyintegrated it with the entire culture.
So tell us a little bit,bit, bit more about how you,
how you came up with it all.

Babak (33:21):
Yeah.
Um.
I'll take credit for some of it.
Not every single one.
Uh, the Be kind one.
I think what I did is when I was trying tolook for core values, uh, I just started
searching a bunch of core values of othercompanies on the internet and I copied and
pasted what I liked from a bunch of them.
And this whole core value thing, ittook me probably a year and a half

(33:43):
to finally develop and narrow itdown 'cause I had so many good ones.
And you know, I just kind of tooka step back and I'm like, what
are we lacking in our industry?
And what is sort of the.
The, uh, taboo, uh, impressionof the outside world of us.
And it's this having come from the bigjob sites where there's towers going on,
there's 200 employees out there and youknow, some days it could be miserable

(34:05):
'cause you're in the snow, you're inthe rain, you're pushed, pushed, pushed.
And it was like, we all needto be kinder to each other.
Like, uh, you know, we, we, we just.
It's a stressful environment.
Sometimes it's unthankful,unfortunately, I hate to say that,
but society looks at us that way on,on construction workers at times.
And, you know, you've got theseskilled men and women that are

(34:27):
out there busting their, theirchops all, they try to work hard.
And so the, the least we could do isjust be kind with each other and just
be good to, to, to, to one another.
So, you know, I put that in there and,uh, you know, there's a, there's a sub
note under there that says you neverknow what somebody is going through.
So be kind to them always like you justdunno what's happening with that person.
They may give you attitude, but theremight be something in the background.

(34:49):
So, so that's where that came from.
Uh, the second one, uh,over deliver Always.
That's actually from Magic Johnson.
Um, I, I listened to, I've read acouple of his books and I watched
several YouTube videos and one ofthe things he says to his people and
his staff is to always over deliver.
And he gives some examples of that.
And I said, you know what?
That's perfect.

(35:09):
Let's do that.
The reality of the overdeliver part is,uh, we sometimes lose money over it.
Uh, but I'd much rather overdeliverand have that client have a good
taste in their mouth and, youknow, make money out to them.
So, um, from a profitability side,that one's not the best, but it's
actually a good ethic to live by.

(35:29):
The other ones, a couple of them werederived from my last employer that I
said, uh, was building, was a developer.
And, uh, they had a whole differentculture where they integrate the
site and the people together.
And now that has to do withunmatched cleanliness, uh, or
unmatched presentation story.
Make sure your job sitesare clean and tidy.
Make sure you yourself are presentable.
'cause one of the things I do is I,I ask people, I go, what's your, uh,

(35:52):
perception of a construction worker?
And, and it really suckswhen I hear them say.
Somebody smoking a cigarette,cursing dirty, and I'm just
like, we gotta change that image.
Like that can't happen.
No.
Um, so, so we try to be as professionalas we can, especially on the condo
work side, because we're in Highriseswith a bunch of other neighbors.
So, um, so that's where those come from.

(36:13):
And then the last two, the growthmindset and, um, succeed together.
Those came from my, one of my sitemembers, uh, one of my project
managers who's a Red Seal carpenter,he just said, you know what?
I have all these newapprentices coming up.
Uh, it's a different generation, right?
Uh, as we all kind of know, their,uh, exposure to hard work may not

(36:35):
be as much as we were growing up.
And so, you know, we have to instill this,this idea of, of growing them and helping
them succeed and make sure that they'renot failures and they feel good at the
end of the day, even if they made errors.
So, so that's wherethose last two came from.
I love it.
And, and you said you actuallyput these up at, at the job site.
Every job site, it's, uh, we havea, a procedure called planting

(36:58):
the flag and planting the flag.
Essentially, one of the procedures isyou have to take this and find a spot.
As soon as the door opens or you enterthe site, it's in big, bold letters.
You see it right there in front of you.
That's awesome.
Yeah, and, and just, just to add tothat, when clients come and visit the
site and they don't, they don't knowwe're gonna put this up and they see it.

(37:18):
Now they're, uh, invested with us andthey're like, Hey, I read this thing.
And, and with the feedback weget, because now they're seeing
that we're all in this together.
They're not, we're not justanother construction company.
We're actually here that care notonly about our own people, but just
generally the whole job site and project.
And so it's one of thosethings that, uh, you know, pays

(37:39):
you dividends down the line.

Eric (37:41):
Absolutely.
And I mean, I, I assume though that like,I mean, is this also like on your website
or somehow incorporated in your, youknow, even in your sales process before,
you know, they've, they've chosen you?
I mean, so this, this shouldn't be thefirst time they've probably seen it, but
it's definitely a surprise when they seeit posted up at their, at their property.

Babak (37:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you're absolutely correct.
We haven't fully incorporatedyet into our sales process.
That's part of the, uh, videography.
So this year we decided toinvest in some videography and.
We're making seven different videos,and one of those videos is actually
going to be focused on core values.
Um, the way we have it set up onour website, it is on there, but

(38:19):
we, we don't really emphasize it.
We should focus a little more on it.
The way our website is set up, whenyou go to ca, we have a CAD lead,
uh, link on there and you can setup an appointment with myself.
I'm the main sales guy right now.
But the idea is when people actuallyaccept that appointment and they say yes.
Then it automatically sends themthose videos and we're gonna
start with the core values first.

(38:40):
And so the impression is that before weeven talk on a Zoom call, we've already
had the client buy in and alreadyaccept us for, you know, who we are.
Uh, so that's part of this 2025,uh, campaign or process that
we're going to incorporate.

Eric (38:56):
I love it.
I'm, I'm curious, so choosingto, to invest in video, I mean.
Awesome.
Move highly, uh, you know, I highlyrecommend and encourage that.
So what, what led you to that, youknow, to that decision and, and, and
what do you plan to do at that role?

Babak (39:12):
Yeah, so when we finally set up, uh, you know, our annual budget, we
decided to set a certain percentage aside.
And, uh, you know, as company ownerswe're always afraid to put money
towards, uh, things like this.
'cause it's like, oh man,that's, that's a big fee.
Um, part of it was because.

(39:32):
You know, to get to the next levelof your business, you need to do
things a little bit differently.
And, uh, at this point to get a biggerreach and get to the right people,
we decided video is the way to go.
Uh, so that's, that's one reason.
The other one is, um, peoplesometimes will call me and say, Hey,
what do you know about so and so?
And I've heard aboutthis contractor and such.

(39:54):
And I'm like, well, whatdo you know about them?
They're like, well, I saw their videos.
It looks really good.
And I just, I have tobite my lip and I go.
I don't want to talk bad aboutthis person, but they don't
have a good reputation, but theyhave an excellent biography.
And so when I connected the dots,I'm like, well, wait a minute.
These people are probably taking,potentially some clientele.
And unfortunately I knowof their reputation.

(40:14):
They're not delivering aswell as they should be.
Uh, we need to play that game as well.
Um, ed Sheridan, I think that's his name.
Uh, they ask you answer.
Uh, mark Sheridan.
Mark Sheridan.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so his booktalks a lot about that.
And, um, I think we always wantedto do it, and it was just a matter
of time before we jumped on it.

(40:36):
And yeah, for, for the most part,also, I've tried to stay in the
background and be in, in the back,but as time goes on, I'm learning
and, and watching yourself as well.
You can't just be in the backgroundand just present a brand, at some
point you have to come in front ofthe camera and just expose yourself
and talk to the, the audience.
So, yeah.
Yeah, those are all the, the

Eric (40:56):
factors that are leading to it.
Absolutely.
I mean, I, I remember when Ifirst, uh, saw Marcus Sheridan
speak, I mean, it was just.
So eyeopening to, to hear him talkabout the importance of just being
completely open, transparent, shareeverything, everything you think, you
know, you, you might not wanna share.
Like just do it because itbuilds, you know, trust it, it
brings, you know, transparency.

(41:17):
It, it helps more peoplefind out about you.
And, you know, I, I immediatelybought his, his book to ask
your answer right after that.
And I read it.
I was like, man, this is incredible.
I need the whole team to read it.
And I bought, you know, 10 or15 more copies of it and gave
it to everyone at the time.
And, you know, it, it really, I mean,I. Honestly, like it transformed
the way that we think about.
How we use video, how we disseminateinformation like in the very beginning

(41:39):
of job tread, like we used to do ourcustomer town halls, you know, our,
our, our product release webinars,but like, we only, you know, allowed
customers and existing users to attendthose, you know, and, and it was like,
you know, we, we didn't want like ourcompetition to be in there to, to see
what we were doing or learn and like.
You know, Marcus just, you know,slapped me in the face is like, man, if
you're ever making a decision becauseyou're scared of your competition,

(41:59):
like you are doing the market, you'redoing your prospects, you're doing
your customers a disservice, you know,because like you're making it so much
harder for them to learn about youand to get that information, you know?
And so like immediately after that, likewe just started opening up everything,
like every webinar we do, every, you know.
Just everything is, is, is open to, toanyone who wants to come and attend.

(42:19):
And, you know, we've, we'veseen our competition on there.
I mean, it is what it is, right?
I mean, we're gonna, you know, publisheverything on, on YouTube and we've
got over 500 videos and like, it,it has made such a huge difference.
So like, I, I really do credit, you know,the, the, the, the principles that he
taught in that book, you know, as, aswell as just, you know, again, video.
You know, like we, we have, youknow, hundreds of, of new customers

(42:40):
signing up every single month now.
Maybe only around 50% of 'emlike actually even talked to us.
And it's like, that's justlike mind boggling, right?
Like it was like a hundred percenthad to go through the, the, the
sales demo and the whole processand like let us walk 'em through it.
Now they, they, they, they've alreadyeducated themselves by finding all
of that content, you know, whetherit's on our website, on YouTube, and

(43:01):
like, you know, I think those sameprinciples though can apply to really.
Any type of business, you know, thebetter, you know, job you can do.
Educating people upfront on your website.
You know, even talking about price, right?
Like, he's like, man, like, you know, evenif you don't give like an exact price,
'cause obviously every project is, youknow, is probably custom, custom bid.
Like, you know, giving themranges and understanding like

(43:23):
what it might cost to do this.
Average kitchen or the bathroomor, you know, whatever it may be.
Like, he's like, you, you, you givethem so much more insight into you
know, who you are and how you makedecisions and how, you know, what,
what factors affect the price.
And like when they come to that,when they come to that call and like,
you have to have that conversationabout, you know, about price.
You know, like it's no longerthe sticker shock moment.

(43:46):
That everyone fears because like they'vealready, you know, read about your price.
They already have an idea of the range.
Like, you know, I reallydo believe that like those
principles are, are so valuable.
And he actually, I just finished reading,he has a, a, a third edition of it.
It's called Endless Customers.
Uh, so he kind of like updated it.
You know, and really brought a lot of, uh,really interesting kind of, uh, thoughts

(44:07):
around how AI is now affecting, you know,the, the, the content that you're putting
out there, you know, on your website andyour videos, and like, the importance of
like, you know, really thinking about,you know, you're, you're not just creating
this content for, you know, people, butit's also for, you know, the AI bots and
like how they start to recommend companieswhen people are searching for it.
Like, it's really, really interesting.
Highly recommend that book.

(44:28):
Probably like my, my all time, you know,top, top book recommendations is, is, is.
They ask you answer, youknow, now, endless customers.
So, uh, I, I love hearing though,that you're, you're gonna be
implementing these, these, these,uh, these practices with video.
It's, it's huge.

Babak (44:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, it's, I mean, like, like inall of us, we're a little bit resistant
to it, probably in the beginning.
Yeah.
Uh, both from a pricelevel and also camera shy.
Uh, but the more of these things youdo, the easier it becomes and, uh.
Like I sent you a video, uh, aboutour two companies because for
the longest time we had peoplesaying, well, which one are you?
Are you this or that?

(45:02):
We're like, you know what?
Let's make a video.
No.
And, uh, ever since I've sent thatout, uh, the response I've gotten from
people, it's like, okay, now we get it.
But we also put little nuggets aboutusing job tread and, and all the
notifications, all the processesand how we differentiate ourselves.
So yeah, we're, we're in a, we're in aworld where people want visuals and they
want to get to the point right away.

(45:23):
And, um.
I love that idea of the AI thing.
Like on our condo work side, uh, oneof the visions that I have is, uh,
people can just go to our websiteand select from a bunch of different
aesthetics that they like, and thenthe AI will say, well, based on
these, we think this is the package.
So we've gonna have pre-made packagesalready, and all they have to do is upload
either their address or their floor planand state what areas they want redone.

(45:49):
My goal is that the AI can pumpout a range instantly for them
and say, this is the range.
It's going to be based onthe package you selected now.
So that's, that's literally, I kindof give the business model away right
now on this, but that's, that's theidea that we're trying to go over.
And then if we could do that, like, Iagree, our industry, for some reason, for
some reason, there's this thing where,uh, we have to bid against each other.

(46:11):
We have to, uh, try to lower ourprices and it's just like, listen.
Products are products.
We all get 'em from thesame place, more or less.
There's going to be a littlebit of markup here and there.
And labor rates are labor rates.
If you're running a legitimate companywhere you're paying your employees,
you have benefits, you're not goingto be too far from the next person.
So stop with us, you know, trying tomake us fight each other in a cage so

(46:34):
that we can give you the lowest price.
Uh, so So I love what you're saying,like that's how it should be.
It should be very, uh, transparent.

Eric (46:41):
Yeah.
It, it, it, it does suck.
When, when you see kind of.
You know, those, those contractorsout there that are just, you
know, again, it's just, they're,they're low balling the price.
They think that's the onlyway they can win jobs.
Like they're cutting corners andlike, they just, they can't see that,
like, you know, they're, they'reactually not helping themselves.
They're, they're, they're, they're notable to pay themselves what they deserve.
They're not paying their people.
Right.
You know, they're not doing the,you know, the best jobs that they

(47:04):
could for that, for that customer.
And, and ultimately, I mean, thoseare the guys that end up, you
know, in, in, in trouble with, youknow, their finances, their cash.
They're robbing Peterto pay Paul, you know.
Just like that, that is what'sgiving this industry a bad rap.
Like we need everybody to be able to pricewhat they should be pricing so that like
this whole industry, like we, you know,again, a rising tide lifts all boats.
Like if everyone, you know, knew theircosts, understood what they need to make

(47:28):
on every job to cover their own overhead,which again, it's, it's specific to each
individual company and how efficient youare and how you run your business flow.
That's what we need for the industryas a whole to try to turn around
some of that bad reputation that, youknow, you, you talked about earlier.
You know, I, I, I thinkthat's so important.

Babak (47:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I totally agree with you.
Um, you know, the, there's so many toolstoday, uh, besides, uh, like, like I
keep coming back to Jo Tread becausethat's been a huge differentiator for us.
But there's things like Loom that weuse now, uh, where we just send short
videos to the client, explain a question.
They have a question, we answer themright away with a loom, boom, it's done.

(48:07):
Um, and just, just learning howto also utilize the technology.
I know it might be a little bit hardfor industry, but, uh, you know.
We're cracks people, we we're artists.
Uh, it's taken years to learn thiscraft and we can't sell ourselves
short because of just a few bad, youknow, apples out there that have been
a, a bad name for as an industry.

Eric (48:28):
I love the, uh, I love when I see people using loom and, and, and video.
I mean, that's, you know, like our,our support team, like almost all the
inbound email support we get, we tryto respond with an actual quick video
showing them how to do it instead ofsitting there, you know, taking more
time to write out a bunch of detailed.
Responses and answers is like, look,I can just click record, talk it all

(48:49):
out, show it to you right now, send it.
And like, you know, I think the neatthing about video, you know, whether
it's, you know, kind of recorded in thattype thing or put it on your website
or whatever, like it's giving peoplethe opportunity to like see the humans,
see the people behind, you know, thecompany behind, you know, the mask.
Like, and, and it's like that's, that'sall building trust and, and relationships.

(49:09):
Understanding the real people.
You know, it's, it's not justkind of some machine that, you
know, somehow is gonna just turnaround and answer your questions.
Like, it, it, it is like the, the,the importance of kind of having
that, the, the, the people behind it.
I mean, I think everyone's team,you know, is, is what will make
or break their company, you know?
And so the better that you can beabout kind of staying front and
center with the clients, with theprospects, like building those

(49:32):
relationships from the very beginning,even before they've contacted you.
Like, you know, you're starting thatwhole process of making them, you know.
Want to work with, you want to bepart of this, you know, project or, or
process or whatever it may be for 'em.
And so, you know, I, I, I, Ilove seeing you guys doing that.
I think look at, at the end of the daythough, like, you know what, what, what
you're really like showcasing here islike the importance of understanding,

(49:56):
you know, your, your, your team, yourcompany, you know, both kind of, you
know, what do you need to grow thebusiness, but like, what do you need
to build a great company and a great.
Culture and knowing how thosecore values not only help you
attract the right people, butthey help you retain those people.
And, and, and those people couldbe your customers, they could be
your employees, they could be yoursubcontractors, like the way that you

(50:17):
truly have embedded, you know, these,these, these core values into that ex.
Experience of working with your company?
I I, that, that is just like aboveand beyond setting you so far
ahead of everyone else out there.
And I think if your prospects and andyour customers knew that, you know, even
before they, they started, you know,working with you, like, I mean, it's just.
Even more of a no-brainer that that'sthe type of contractor that you want and

(50:41):
that you want to have in your home totrust around your family, around your
kids, like to know that they're notgonna cut those corners and that they're
gonna do what they say they're gonna do.
Like that is exactly what, you know,every contractor should be aspiring to do.
So, you know, kudos to you to, toreally setting the standard and
throwing that bar way up there foreveryone else to, to, to try to reach.

Babak (51:02):
Yeah.
Thank you.
No, we're, we're, we're a community.
And I just said like, uh, when Iask people what their impression
of construction workers is, itjust really irks me the wrong way.
And, and I try to havethe argument with them.
I go, well, when you go to a dentistand they're operating on your teeth
and they charge you a bunch of money.
How is that different thansomebody that's building your home?
They're no different.
They, they, they have skill sets.
They have to learn it.

(51:22):
They're using tools.
They're being meticulous with it.
Uh, so why would youthink that's the opposite?
So, um, there's a great book called, uh,unreasonable Hospitality that's related
to the, uh, to the restaurant industry.
It's a, it's a basically amust read for our team members.
And, uh, you know, one of thethings I tell our employees

(51:44):
is we are service people.
We're no different than a waiteror a waitress in a restaurant.
We're just providing construction.
And so we have to behavein that mannerism as well.
And, um, you know, I just hope andwish, and I don't say this in a negative
way, but I really wish everybody elsein our industry would do the same.
And if we do it, we're just gonnaelevate our whole industry as a whole.

(52:06):
And, and get a whole, uh, differentimpression from, from the outside world.
Yeah.

Eric (52:11):
Well, look, uh, Bebe, I, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing
all this as, as we wrap up here.
I'm curious, is there any kind of finaladvice that, you know, that you would
give to others who are, you know, maybeearlier on in their process or, or maybe
they've been, been at this for a longtime, but striving to, to build and
have that same level of success that,that you've had with your, your team?

Babak (52:32):
Uh, yeah.
I, I, I would say things like, um,look at people who have done it
before you and have paved the path.
Um, don't discount yourself.
They're no different than you are.
They're a human being just like yourself.
Uh, they had to go throughtrials and tribulations, but
they have things to teach you.
If you can somehow attachyourself to several of those

(52:53):
people to act as mentors to you.
Um, if it's not working for you or ifyou're struggling, it's probably you
don't know something or you're, you'remissing a piece of the puzzle and it's up
to you to go and find out what that is.
Um, if, if you believe in yourwork and what you're, you know,
what you bring to the table, um.
The sky's the limit.

(53:13):
There's a lot of openings out there foryou, so just, just surround yourself
with people that have already doneit and are at a higher level so that
you can just, uh, absorb some ofthat knowledge and experience off of
them and just apply it in your world.
That's awesome.

Eric (53:28):
Great, great advice and, and again, really appreciate you coming
on and, you know, sharing with ushow you've been able to build, you
know, such a successful business here.
You know, it's, it's, it's really excitingand, uh, you know, just energizing for
me to see people like you out there,you know, doing what it takes to be.
Successful as you have been to,to create these, these, you know,

(53:48):
exceptional customer experiences, tobuild great teams, build great cultures.
Like, you know, I think, you know,oftentimes it can be easy to sort of
just look at a business and sort oftake all that for granted and think
that that, you know, just somehow camenaturally or came easily for them.
But like, that's not the case.
It takes a lot of time, a lot of hardwork years of, you know, reflecting
and, and continually improvingover time to get that flushed out.

(54:10):
So.
You know, thank you for, for everythingthat you're doing to be such a great
role model in the industry, youknow, for building such a great team.
For, for doing right by everyone.
You know, it, it really matters.
And you know, I, I appreciate you comingon and sharing that with everyone.

Babak (54:22):
Thank you Eric.
And thank you for yourleadership and your team.
Uh, job Trent Connect was amazing.
We've already borrowedtickets for next year.
Uh, we came back so energizedafter that show and just talking
to a bunch of other contractors.
All across North America, just,we came back with a synergy at
the end, and that's, it's, itwas like rocket fuel for us.

(54:44):
So keep thank you for doing whatyou're doing and uh, you know, I
appreciate what you guys do every dayand you're definitely one of a kind,
uh, as, as a company and as a team.
So without you guys, we wouldn't be wherewe're going and where we are right now.
So I just wanna say, givemy gratitude to you all.

Eric (55:00):
I appreciate that.
And, uh, look, look forwardto seeing you again soon.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
Me, Vic.
Take care.
Yeah.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please

(55:24):
contact [e-mail].
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.