October 1, 2025 • 61 mins
Michael James lost everything during the recession, then rebuilt his company with a new outlook on leadership and legacy. He even biked from Canada to Mexico, a journey that reshaped how he approaches business and life.
In this conversation, Michael shares how shifting from a “me” mindset to a “we” mindset transformed his company. He talks about hiring lessons, working with family, and the culture-building practices that keep his team engaged. He also reveals the one thing he does every day to keep his business moving forward and the leadership habit he considers most valuable.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- The daily practice Michael relies on to guide his business decisions
- How listening became his most effective leadership tool
- What to look for when building a strong team
- How to create a culture where people want to stay and grow
- The key to making family partnerships work in business
Listen to the episode to learn more.
Resources:
Learn more about Michael James Remodeling here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric (00:18):
Welcome back everybody.
I am really excited today.
I've got a very specialguest, Michael James.
He is the owner ofMichael James Remodeling.
They're located in Gainesville, Georgia.
I had the honor and the privilegeof getting to spend a little
time with Michael, uh, whatwas it like a week or two ago?
He was at our job Tread, uh,bootcamp here in Dallas, Texas.
Got to know him.
(00:38):
Just really incredible story.
Excited to have you on to Builder Stories.
Welcome to the show, Michael.
Michael (00:43):
Thanks Eric.
It is been, what a pleasure to behere, an honor, and just an amazing
time we had at your bootcamp,just learning about Job Tread.
Came back super excited to sharewhat we had learned, so really
excited to go out there, spend sometime with you guys as well as be
on your, uh, on the Builder Show.
Eric (01:02):
Awesome.
Well, why don't you, uh,give us a little background.
Tell us, you know, alittle bit about yourself.
How'd you get into construction?
What led you to start, uh,your, your business here?
Michael (01:12):
Yeah, thanks Eric.
Uh, so 27 years ago is when Istarted my business, uh, back in 98.
But prior to that, you know, I, Ialways loved to just work with my hands.
When I was a kid, my parentswould not give me basketballs and
footballs and things like that.
They would give me chop saws and skillsaws and table saws, and I didn't know
(01:35):
what I was doing, you know, at that age.
But I just loved to work with my handsand had the opportunity to work with some
master carpenters at a really young age.
Learned a lot of aspects ofjust construction in general.
And jumped out there on my own, uh, askedthem, uh, if they would support me, be
(01:57):
willing to help me out in doing things.
They said, yeah, Michael,we'll support you.
And it's been 27 years.
I haven't heard a thing from 'em since,so I just had to figure it out on my own.
Uh, but you know, throughout the last27 years, it's just been a journey
of, I really thought that growthwould just naturally come because
(02:19):
you just had a desire for growth.
You know, I didn't really know that therewas so many other pieces of the puzzle.
The puzzle of, or the pieces of thepuzzle, like mindset, uh, goal setting,
intentions, all of those things thatreally just help, really guide you and,
(02:40):
and having a, an ultimate goal, youknow, trying to put a direction into.
A GPS, you know whatdirection you're going to go.
And so that's what we at, at first,I didn't really know to do that, and
it wasn't until about six years ago Ireally set those intentions, and once
(03:04):
I set those intentions, Eric, it wasjust like the light switch went on.
You know, I never knew that I wasmissing that piece of the puzzle.
And so putting people in my path and goingto conferences like yours and different
things really helped put me on the pathwayto looking at my big goal and going,
(03:30):
there's no reason why it can't happen.
I, it's there, it's out there.
And so now it's just been the journey of.
What does it take?
Building the right team, buildingthe culture, making mistakes,
falling flat on my face.
And, but I think more than anything,Eric, it's been just the journey, how fun
(03:51):
it's been, of just figuring things out.
And even going to your bootcamp and goingthrough your office and seeing your team,
seeing how you've built your culture.
I come back and go, we gottado this, we gotta do that.
Let's do this, let's do that.
You know, to really, you know, you've,you're, you're one or two chapters
(04:13):
or three chapters ahead of us inthis book of, of entrepreneurship.
And so it's, it was really coolto, to be there, be a part of it,
hear a little bit of your story andyeah, I came back super excited.
Eric (04:26):
Awesome.
Yeah.
You know, it's, uh, it being anentrepreneur really is a journey.
And, uh, there's, there's a lot ofups and downs, a lot of challenges.
You know, you, you, youface 'em all eventually.
Uh, but yeah, su super, superinteresting to, you know, to, to see.
I mean, again, you, you've been at itfor a long time, so, so tell us just
kinda real quick, so like, you know,what types of remodels are, are you
(04:46):
guys doing the types of projects, kindof average job size, things like that?
Michael (04:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we're a full designbuild, remodeling company.
Most of our projects we're, we'repositioned around a very popular lake
in Georgia, so a lot of tourists, uh,that come to the lake, a lot of second,
uh, homeowners that are living there.
So it really attracts a luxurylevel side of clients, and so we've
(05:13):
really put a lot of focus into that.
I would say our average remodelis sitting around 250,000.
Uh, right now we've got some thatare in the millions, some that
are in the tens of thousands.
Uh, we don't typicallysay no to, to projects.
We let our process and our value andeverything determine for a client
(05:36):
what, what direction they want to go.
Eric (05:39):
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
I mean, and would it, would it, wouldit be, uh, appropriate for me to, to,
to go out and, and, and venture thatyou didn't always have that size of.
Project.
I mean, I, I can only imagine a,a a million dollar remodel is, uh,
one, one hell of a job for you.
Michael (05:52):
Absolutely.
You know, I guess it was about, maybeabout four years ago, I was so excited
to do a hundred thousand dollars remodel.
I'm like, I have hit the golden ticket.
You know?
And even then it was like the challengesthat you faced in doing that, the,
(06:13):
the upscaling of doing things, uh,bringing on at that particular job, we
brought on a new software and navigatingthrough that and even telling the
customer, oh, look at this portal.
You get to access.
And it was a total flop.
I mean, it was a flop, you know, butit was the start, right of just little
(06:35):
by little tackling one item and going,let's get, let's, let's do this and
master that, and then let's go tothe next item and let's master that.
You know, looking back over the journeyof five or six years of doing this
now, I, I, I have to remind myself thatfive years ago, my goal then was like,
(06:59):
I want to be a $3 million company.
What amazing feat that would be, and then6 million, like, and even at times getting
discouraged because I'm not at what Ireally want to be at, but reminding myself
that I am walking in my dream right now.
I'm walking in what I set two yearsago and three years ago, and sometimes
(07:25):
I get distracted, you know, of like,I'm not hitting that, that number
I want to be at, but taking a stepback and going, no, I really am.
I, I am walking in that dream.
Eric (07:38):
Yeah, that's, that's awesome.
And you know, having that realization.
You know, I, I really think is, is soimportant to just help you appreciate,
you know, that, that, that this isn'tlike a, you know, I, I'm done or I,
I, I hit my goal or I miss my goal.
It's, it's about, you know, the, thejourney of, of doing it and, and, and
realizing that like, you know, everyday we're, we're taking more steps
(08:01):
forward, you know, but we're continuingto grow and we're continuing to improve.
And I think having that, you know,that, that, again, that focus and
that appreciation of, you know, thisis, this is the journey we're on,
this is the lifestyle we've chosen.
It does sometimes help sort of, youknow, tamp down some of those like
pressures that, you know, reallyare, are self-inflicted pressures.
But, you know, again, we, we,we all want to, to, to push
(08:21):
ourselves to do more and do better.
And, you know, I think it's, it'sabout, you know, also being able to
stop and, and realize, man, look athow far we've come and, and see the
road behind you that you've traveled.
I mean, you know, it's, uh, it's,it's, it is really powerful to, to
be able to have that perspective.
Michael (08:35):
And, and the lives that have been impacted in the journey.
You know, the employees that havecome and their life has changed,
their life has transformed.
As we transformed somebody'shome, there are team members and
clients that we're able to impact.
And sitting back and, and seeingthose things unfold in front of you,
(09:01):
intentional or not intentional, is likeso fulfilling to be able to go, wow,
look at the lives that we were chained.
It's not about just the money aspect,it's not about filling your pockets with,
with heck, Eric, you probably like me.
We would probably quit a long time ago ifit was about filling our pockets, right?
(09:22):
But the impact and the difference that.
Our efforts and our sweat and bloodand tears have created, and with
the hope and goal that, you know,it won't be so stressful at times or
so, um, so intense, but being ableto see lives transformed, you know,
(09:45):
it's, it's just really super special.
Eric (09:48):
How, how do you think you, how do you think you came to, you know,
realize this and appreciate this?
Michael (09:56):
Hmm, that's a great question.
You know, I think I transitioned in 2019.
I had spent that 20 years of havinga business and I just was, again,
wanted it, I wanted big stuff, but Iwasn't really doing anything about.
(10:17):
Big stuff.
But what I was doing was some big stuff.
Personally, I rode my bicycle acrossthe United States twice, but on
one of those journeys I was broken.
Eric, I, I'd gone through a divorce.
I had just, life just hit me, youknow, and lost everything I had through
(10:37):
the 2008 downturn in the economy.
And I had to, I had to make a decisionthen to rebuild and I wasn't going to
let a circumstance change the outcome.
And so I started rebuildingand I finally pulled myself
(10:59):
out of the, the, the slump and.
Again, accomplish all these great thingson a bicycle, rode my bike from Cal
or Canada to New Mexico in 23 days.
It, it was like allthis cool stuff, right?
But then I looked at it and I go, if Ican do that on a personal level, what
(11:21):
can I do on a business side of things?
What legacy can I create and leavewhenever I want out of the picture
and it to be carried, carried on?
And that was really the point in 2019where I, I made that conscious decision.
(11:42):
And the first thing I did was I hired acoach and I was sitting across the table
from this potential coach that I wasinterviewing, and he asked me a question.
He goes, how much money do youhave in your savings account?
And I told him, and he goes, ifI can quadruple that in one year.
Would you let me do it?
(12:03):
And I go, of course.
That's a no brainer.
Who wouldn't?
And he looked at me in theeyes and he goes, so do it.
And I was like, oh man,this guy means business.
But right then, Eric, it waslike I pushed all the chips
into the poker table, you know?
And I was like, I'm going to doit, and I'm going to want this more
(12:25):
than the oxygen that I breathe.
And so that's been the journey.
And so it shifted from accomplishingall these great things personally,
to intertwining personal andbusiness as one and going, I
am going to make a difference.
I am going to create a legacy and we aregoing to make an impact in our industry
(12:50):
and we're going to transform our industry.
That's what it boiled down to.
Eric (12:54):
I, I love it, man.
You know, it gets me firedup thinking about that.
I mean, I, you know, I, I don't knowhow you made it across the country
a couple times, but, you know,on a bicycle, I mean, that's, uh.
Uh, you know, that, that, that, that is,uh, quite the impressive, uh, feat there.
I mean, just the mindset that like,you had to, to have to not quit.
Like, I mean, I, I probably ride a couplemiles and be like, all right, where's
(13:15):
the, where's the, the, the bus pickup?
You know?
But, you know, that's, uh, I, I love howyou translated, you know that from, from
your own kind of personal experience toapplying it to your business and saying,
you know, I, I am devoted to this andwe are going to achieve these goals,
and we're gonna grow and we're goingto make the biggest impact that we can.
(13:35):
And, you know, again, it's, I, I seethat same, you know, relentless, like,
you know, pursuit to, to accomplishthat, that, that, that you obviously
had, you know, when, when you're doingit on your, your own personal journey.
So it's super neat to see that.
I love it.
Michael (13:47):
Well, and it was to me the phrase that.
I keep relying back to when I wasriding my bike across the states, I
had to just keep pedaling regardless ofthe things I faced, regardless of the
weather, regardless of getting run offthe road at one point by a car, finding
(14:08):
myself late, passed out, hit em, bankan embankment, firefighters coming
down into this embankment rescuing me.
But I had to make a decisionto go just keep pedaling.
And that's what it is foryou and I as entrepreneurs.
We get hit with circumstances, withlife, issues with you name it, right?
(14:33):
And we have to wake up and go,I just gotta keep pedaling.
And whether it's 10 milestoday or a hundred miles
today, you just keep pedaling.
And so I've just taken that message of.
That bike ride and that journey,and the times I did want to quit and
(14:55):
applied that to business and go, I amgoing to be faced with wanting to quit.
I am going to be facedwith discouragement.
I am going to be faced with setbacks.
However, those are all temporary.
It's just temporary.
The next day is a new day andyou wake up and you go, you know
(15:16):
what I'm gonna conquer today?
Eric (15:18):
I love it.
You know, I think, you know, probablyone of the, sort of, one of the obvious
things that, you know, from, from, youknow, an individual perspective to, you
know, a business or, or you know, kindof a team is that you, you know, with,
with the business, like you have theoption to surround yourself by others.
So can you tell us like, whatis it, what has it been like?
I mean, even going way back, like, youknow, what's, what's that journey look
(15:41):
like as you've built the team around you?
Like, have you, haveyou always hired people?
Did you, you know, make some,some of the wrong hires?
Like, how have you thought about, youknow, building the team and, and, and, and
what has that, what has that done for you?
Michael (15:54):
Yeah, and that's such a great point.
We're actually reading a book collectivelyas a team, uh, by John Maxwell, the
17 Irrefutable Laws of Teamwork.
And I'd say the, the challenge withthat is I've had to go from a me
perspective to a we perspective.
(16:17):
And set the ego aside andset the pride aside and
to other individuals.
And even when I may not agreewith it, sit back and go let
'em, let 'em do their thing.
If we get to the end and it'sstill the same results, we're good.
(16:39):
You know?
And so it's been, it's definitely beena challenge because I, I'm a go-getter.
I want to be in control.
I want to do it myself, and Iwanna look at individuals and go,
you can't do it as good as I can.
But it has taught me how to slow down.
It has taught me how to be abetter leader, to allow individuals
(16:59):
to succeed and then go, nowhow can I help them succeed?
How can I create a launching pad and arunway for them to have that same success
of I as I've had, and also realize.
I can't get to this ahundred million dollar goal.
Without 'em, there's no way you wouldn'tbe where you are at without the team.
(17:22):
No way I can do it without the team.
So it's a daily, uh, not a challenge, butit's a daily awareness for me to go make
sure you're bringing everybody together,that everybody is learning and going in
the same direction together, and lettingthem experience the setbacks, letting
(17:45):
'em experience the hard times, but alsobeing there to encourage, to support
and, and be there to listen to them.
Eric (17:53):
Absolutely.
I, I, I hear it all the time, and Iknow from my own personal experience,
like, you know, I think as, as, asentrepreneurs, one of the hardest
things to do is, is, is to let goand to delegate and, and to trust.
You know, that, that, that yourteam and the people around you, you
know, will be able to execute anddeliver and, and, and it's just like.
It's such a hard thing becauselike, you know, we know at the end
(18:16):
of the day the buck stops with us.
And so we want, you know, to toto, to do it and to do it right.
But like, you know, as you growand as you scale, like it's
just not physically possible.
You know, as entrepreneurs, likewe cannot do everything even though
we want to, you know, we can'tkeep putting on every single hat.
You know, you've gotta be able tofind people, you know, recruit people
(18:37):
who are better than you and putthem in the position to be able to
deliver, you know, even more than,than, than you would've been able
to do, you know, in an ideal world.
But like, you know, you've gottabe able to trust those people.
And, and I think it's justso hard to, to, to do that.
But when you can have that leadershipmentality and, and, and when you truly
care about developing your peopleand, and, and, and having them, you
(19:00):
know, be able to learn and have thoseexperiences, you know, sometimes our best
learning comes from trying and failing.
You know, and, and, and, and Ithink if you don't give people that
opportunity, then they're nevergonna reach their full potential.
And I think in, in general, it'll holdthe company back, you know, because
again, we, we, as entrepreneursand leaders and owners, like, we
can't do everything ourselves.
(19:21):
We've gotta build that team and we'vegotta motivate them and give them, you
know, the ability to take ownership.
Michael (19:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's a challenge, you know, to golet 'em thrive, let 'em do their thing.
You know, you want to step injust like our kids when our kids
are growing up, you wanna like,let me show you how to do that.
Don't do it that way.
You gotta let them experience that.
You gotta let them have theirmoment, even knowing that they're
gonna fall flat on their face.
Eric (19:49):
So how, how, how have you gone about trying to recruit and, and build a team?
Like where, where do you,where do you find your people?
How do you know when the righttime is to, to hire someone?
And, and how do you know they're the one?
Michael (20:03):
Yeah.
You know, that, that's, that's a greatquestion and probably, uh, uh, an answer
that I'll always be searching for.
Right.
Um, I, one thing I've really tried tolive by is hire slow and fire fast, and.
You know, I've gone, I've gone a coupledifferent approaches in hiring and in
(20:27):
the beginning when you don't have thefunds, you don't have the resources.
You can't afford the rockstaremployee, but you need somebody,
you need somebody to just handletask and to be able to delegate.
And so, you know, in thebeginning, I, I hired cheap.
And when hiring cheap, thatmeans I didn't get the skill.
(20:50):
So I had to teach.
And sometimes that's workedand sometimes it hasn't.
What I've seen is as we've grown, peoplehave to be willing to grow with you.
And if they're not willing togrow with you, you outpace 'em.
And then you're faced with, I'vegotta let this person go because they
cannot keep up with the same pace.
(21:13):
And so I've really, the effort thatI have put into this is really.
Showcasing the importance of everyindividual creating value and every
individual growing as the companygrows and never staying at one place.
(21:35):
And as we grow to a hundredmillion, I have to change.
If, if I knew how to get toa hundred million, I'd be
there, but I don't know how.
And so I have to make changes.
And if I have to make changes, so doeseverybody else have to make changes.
And so that's what I continue, continueto showed to the individuals, always
(21:59):
create value and also help themunderstand that it's not necessarily
about Michael James Remodeling,it's about what value they can, uh.
Create and have for themselves.
And if Michael James Remodelingis just a stepping stone for
their next future, that's okay.
(22:22):
You know, if I can be apart of that, I'm honored.
And one quick little story.
I had one little, one, uh, employeethat worked with me 19 years, and he
just recently moved back to his country,started his own business, and we, when he
first started with me, he's like, Michael,I'm gonna work with you three years.
(22:43):
And then that three years came andwent, and he said three more years.
Three more years.
But now he's got a littlecompany down there.
And I feel like I was a part of it.
I feel like I helped him in thatjourney, even though it was a
big bummer to see him go right.
(23:06):
He was such a, uh, genuine person.
He was such a hard worker.
Uh, but I believe that I was able tobe a part of him in his own growth.
And so I've just developed thatphilosophy of I'm here to help serve.
I'm here to help teach,I'm here to help others.
(23:28):
And if I'm part of that journey for a longperiod or a short period, I'm grateful.
Eric (23:34):
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
And, and, and what that says to meagain, like, you, you, you must be a
really great talent scout because youknow, you're, you're not only looking
at, you know, who they are today, butwho they have the potential to become.
And are they coachable?
Are they moldable?
Can you train them?
Will they, you know, have that hungerand that desire to learn and grow?
(23:55):
And those are, those are absolutelythe best people because like at the
end of the day, like we never know whatnew skill or trait or software or, you
know, technique or whatever it may be,that like we're gonna have to learn.
And when you have a team of people thathave that natural desire to continue
to improve and develop themselvesand, and that hunger for learning and,
(24:15):
and, and growth, like those are thepeople that are gonna be awesome at.
Taking on whatever new challenge youthrow at them, and they're gonna do it
with excitement and, you know, ease and,and, and so I think that's like great,
uh, you know, a great trait to lookfor in someone is really understanding
like that, that, that desire, thatpassion, that hunger, you know, I love
finding people that have that, that,that, that passion in their belly.
(24:37):
Like I, I, you cannot paysomeone to be passionate.
You cannot train someone to be passionate.
Like they, they eitherhave it or they don't.
And man, when you find thosepeople and you can just, you
know, unlock their potential, likethey just like soar, you know?
And, and I think it's great to find them.
Michael (24:52):
And I think it's real important on the front end when you're doing
those interviews to share that passion,that direction, where you're going,
what you, what you are looking for.
At that point, I'm asking thempermission to hold them accountable
for their goals, their personal,professional, and their financial goals.
(25:16):
I'm asking their permission.
'cause once they're on, it'slike we're doing this together.
You know?
And there have been times, Eric.
I could see it on the faces of theseindividuals when I'm interviewing and
going, yeah, they're not interested.
They don't want that accountability.
They don't want those commitments.
And it's really a good thing.
(25:38):
'cause then you, you, you realizereally quickly who's a good
fit and who's not a good fit.
You know?
And one other thing that's been reallycool, I would've never in a million
years considered hiring family.
You know, there's all the, thestereotypical things that go behind
(26:00):
that and the, the, the failure in that.
But I currently have, I think, sevenfamily members that work for me now.
And it started off with mysister and my dad had passed
away six or seven years ago.
And.
(26:20):
My sister was living in our hometownwhere he was, and we had our family
house that we needed to remodel and sell.
And I was like, you know what?
Why don't you just remodelit and I'll coach you?
You know, this was on thecoast of North Carolina.
She's eight hours away.
And so she did, and I her through it.
And I go to that our last, rightbefore the house sells to look
(26:45):
at it, to say our goodbyes.
And I'm looking at it throughthe remodeling filter going, wow,
she did a good job with this.
Like, this is pretty cool.
And I started asking her, then I'm like,why don't you come and work for me?
I, this is my vision.
This is where I'm going.
And the train is starting to move fast.
Like, why don't you get on board now?
(27:07):
It took her two yearsto, to come on board.
And she did.
I mean, and she has been arockstar, Eric, and that led.
To another fam, uh, my sister'shusband, he came on board.
I've got nieces and nephewsthat have been on board.
I ended up hiring my oldersister as my operations manager
(27:27):
and it's just been really cool.
Uh, not that we don't have thedynamic of family and all of that,
but it's also given me anotheropportunity to impact their lives.
It's given me another opportunity to also,how can I grow and not allow family to.
(27:49):
And to, to create any sort of dynamicthat's just not appropriate or it
doesn't fit with, with the growth.
I mean, they know that it's like, this isthe direction we're going, family or not.
And so it cre it has created differentchallenges, but it's been really,
really cool to look at it and go, wow,I would've never guessed this would've
(28:13):
been a family business, but now I lookat it and go, wow, this is pretty cool.
You know, to really be able to see thatand then them coming back to me and going,
Michael, this is what you've done for me.
This is the differenceyou've made in my life.
It's been a really neat journey.
Eric (28:31):
Yeah.
That's, that's exciting hearinga, a another story where,
you know, it, it has worked.
I mean, I, you know, I probably hear,uh, you know, nine outta 10 times
the story of, uh, you know, it didn'twork out when they hired their family.
But, you know, I think I sharedwith you, you know, my dad, he
was our, he was my CFO, my lastcompany, CFO, of this company, you
know, and, and, and I think that.
You know, again, as, as, as, as, asmuch as it, it might not work for a lot
(28:54):
of people when you can figure out howto make it work and, you know, you can
learn to appreciate and respect eachother, and you can't just have that, that
same, you know, we're gonna lash out ateach other just because, you know, we're
family or whatever we might've done.
You know, like you have to learn, youknow, how to, to be able to respect and,
and be professional and communicate,you know, in that, you know, company
(29:15):
environment, you know, versus, youknow, I think more things may go back
in the home, but like, you know, it's,it's, it's, it's been the greatest,
you know, reward and journey of mylife to be able to work with my dad.
And, you know, people alwaysused to ask me, well, what's
it like working with your dad?
It's like, well, one, I get, you know,I'm his boss, you know, but two, you
know, I mean, the whole, my wholelife I grew up and he was the boss.
Right.
You know?
But, you know, I, I think theother thing is like, you know, we,
(29:36):
we've, you know, I used to describeit as kinda like the 80 20 rule.
Like, you know, 80% of thetime everything's good.
We're loving each other.
20% of the time we're going for thejugular, you know, but like over the
years, like it really did, you know.
I would say kind of boiledout to, you know, 98, 90 9%
of the time, it's all good.
Yeah.
We sure have, you know, our, ourdisagreements from time to time, but like,
(29:56):
when you can learn to make that work,like I, I, I just love that like, you
know, I've been able to meld this likemy career, you know, my life and then
my family and, and have that all in one.
Like, it just, it makes thatjourney that much more rewarding.
There's nowhere else I wouldrather be than being here,
building this with my dad.
And, and I think the other cool thingabout it, and, and it sounds like this
(30:18):
has probably even had a bigger impact foryou, is like you can instill this, like
this notion of family into your culture.
And I think it, it, it just has thislike underlying tone of, of love and, you
know, just genuinely like looking afterpeople and helping people and bending over
backwards for people because you truly,truly care about them and you care about
(30:41):
their success and their development.
And so like, I, you know, I just,you know, for us and, and both of
my companies, like, we've alwayshad that family feel to our culture.
And I think it has been because ofmy dad and I, I mean, would you,
would you resonate with that as well?
Does that, does that ring true?
Michael (30:55):
absolutely.
Uh, you know, it's, it's so rewarding,uh, to, you know, look back at it and go
one, it really does, as an entrepreneur,it teaches you how to be a better leader.
You ca you're going to have so much moreopportunities to have those negative
moments and when you can learn how towork through those with a family member.
(31:21):
It's golden with therest of your employees.
You know, your family, you,they're always your family.
You can't fire 'em as your family.
You know, they may not work with youas, as the company, but you can't
ever fire 'em as a family member.
And so it really challenges you to makesure that you're always protecting that.
(31:43):
And if you're protecting that, thenit makes it easier to me to really
treat others within the company.
Even it, it just makes it easier.
Eric (31:55):
Yeah, I think, you know, as, as you heard, one of my favorite
sayings is, may the best idea alwayswin, you know, and I think, you know.
People when, when they've seen, you know,you know, my dad, he, you know, it, it, he
don't care what role, what people are in.
Like, you know, he, he would pushback on my ideas that he thought,
you know, weren't the best idea.
And I, and, and, and I think thatsort of helped others to also feel
more comfortable and confident,like, you know, challenging things.
(32:17):
Like, you know, I, I think it's veryimportant that people have a voice.
Like that's why you're on the team.
We want you.
To speak up and we want you,you know, to, to, to contribute.
And so, you know, I just, thiswhole notion of, oh, well he's
the boss, the CEO or whatever,like, you know, I, I hate that.
Like I want this to be as flatof an organization as possible.
I'm your peer right next to you.
Just 'cause I came up with an ideadoesn't mean it's the right idea.
(32:39):
The best idea.
Like, let me know your thoughts.
Like, let's, let's talk aspeers and let's just remove this
hierarchy and all that other crap.
Like, you know, justtell me what you think.
'cause like, I think youmight know better than I do.
So, you know, I think it, it's justnice to be able to have, you know,
that, that, that those people, and,you know, I think your family just
naturally feels more comfortablepushing back, you know, against you.
But then it, it, it encourages others.
(33:01):
And that I think ultimately doescreate this very healthy dynamic where
communication flows a lot easier, a lotmore naturally when people feel like,
you know, they can share and they cancontribute and they can give feedback.
You know, sometimes it's hard forpeople to, to feel comfortable
and, and I know it can be hard forleaders to, to receive that feedback.
I encourage people to go out and solicit.
(33:21):
The feedback, go ask yourpeople, Hey, how could I improve?
You know, as, as a leader,how could I do a better job?
And, and like, not only will you getgreat feedback, but like the respect
that you'll earn from your peopleby asking them is, is invaluable.
You know, I mean, it'll, it'll shockthem first and then, you know, when
they, when they really think about it,it might take them a couple days to
(33:43):
actually come back with, with some,you know, you know, deep thoughts.
But like, man, like, it just, itreally truly helps everybody grow when
you can have those, those types ofconversations and those relationships.
Michael (33:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's, we've incorporated a lot of thoseopportunities with the team of just
given feedback and, you know, you and Ias business owners, it is easy to pull
the, I'm the owner card, you know, I'vegot the name on the sign or whatever,
but that's not what we're building.
(34:14):
You know, we're to, to be able tolook at our team and go, wow, look at.
Look at their willingness to bevulnerable and share a weakness possibly,
and giving them that opportunityas well as seeing their own growth.
Uh, when my first, when my sisterfirst came on, she was a little mousy.
(34:37):
She was a little, I don't want,Mike's been doing this for so long.
Who am I to come in and have a voice?
And now I'm like, can you, can youlike soften your voice a little bit?
She's like, yeah, we're doingthis and we're gonna do this.
And when I look back at it, I'm like,this is exactly what would you want, you
(34:57):
want to your point, uh, Eric, you want anequal playing field where you've got all
these ideas to really help take us to thatnext level to help take us to that, that
growth point that we're all desiring for.
And it's, it's really coolwhen you slow down enough to
(35:18):
go, wow, look at their growth.
Eric (35:20):
Yeah.
So, you know, you've, you've also,you, you talked about how you and the
team are, are reading a book together.
I love that we've done thathere at Job Tread as well.
You know, what, what else, you know,from a, from a culture standpoint, would
you say, you know, you guys have, havebeen able to, to, to implement that has
really, you know, created that, thatstrong bond, that really strong culture
(35:40):
that, you know, has kept people there.
I mean, you know, a 19year, you know, employee.
I mean, that, that's, that, that isa testament to what type of company
you have built and the team andthe culture that you've created.
So like what, what would you attribute.
Two.
How did you create that?
Michael (35:55):
You know, that's a great question.
I, I believe part of it has just beenbeing accessible, uh, as, as their
boss, you know, just having an opendoor, being willing to just listen and.
And then incorporate little things likehaving luncheons, having get togethers
(36:17):
throughout the week, having opportunitywhere we all can come together.
Uh, every morning, uh, we do a, a callon Zoom where the whole team has gotta
get on for about 10 to 15 minutes andwe share a win from the previous day.
And that has really been coolto see our field staff and our
(36:40):
office staff come together.
And, and, you know, with our industryit's such a, an easy division of field
staff and, and office staff could goweeks and never see each other except
for to pick up a paycheck or something.
And so doing things on aregular basis, uh, to bring that
(37:00):
unity, uh, together as well as.
Once a week, early in the mornings, I havean opportunity with all of my carpenters
where seven o'clock in the morning it's,it's open for whether they want to come
or whether they don't want to come.
But for about two hours, from seven toabout nine, we build something together.
(37:22):
And so right now we're working onbuilding some playhouses for one for
a little girl, one for a little boythat we're gonna gift at Christmas.
And it gives one, it gives me theopportunity to put my nail bag on and
be be a carpenter, which I just love.
But also it gives me anopportunity to mentor.
It gives me an opportunity to spendtime with my guys and then it gives.
(37:46):
Our design team an opportunity to be apart in designing something, and then it's
going to eventually give the whole teaman opportunity to impact a child's life.
And so trying to create things thatbring things within the team together.
Uh, once a month with this book we'rereading, all of our leadership is.
(38:11):
Assigned to go over one to two chaptersonce a month with the whole team.
So we're reading it all together, and thenonce a month we'll sit down and we'll talk
through it all collectively as a group.
And some leaders within theteam get very creative with
an exercise of team building.
(38:33):
Others get more like myself.
I'm not very good atlike the exercise aspect.
I'm, I'm really good aboutmore of inspiration and sharing
people through my stories.
But once a month we're coming togetheras a group going, this is, this is
what we've learned through this book.
And, you know, there's somany great authors out there
(38:56):
that we all can learn from.
And I, I encourage my teamto either suggest a book or.
Uh, or I'll collectively, we'll comeup with a book on the leadership
team that we all can read together.
Eric (39:12):
That's, that's awesome.
I, I love that.
I mean, you know, again, the, the, the,the book reading and, and like, are your,
your carpenters also reading the book?
Michael (39:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Eric (39:21):
Wow.
All right.
That's awesome.
The field, the field, everyone.
And, and you said, so is it,it's, it's every single morning.
Your, your whole teamcomes together on Zoom.
Michael (39:29):
Yeah.
Every, every morning.
So every other, uh, Monday we'll have acompany meeting, and then we come together
on a Zoom call, uh, and just share justnot a whole lot of time, 10, 15 minutes.
Everybody just kind of goesthrough and they share a little
win, uh, of, of the previous day.
And if they don't really have a win,they, they may share, you know, I, I
(39:51):
did this, or I did that on the job site.
Eric (39:54):
I mean, that's awesome.
I mean, I, I just, such a cool wayto, to again, keep people feeling
like they're part of a team.
They're together.
Being able to just see eachother when you're right.
Like, I mean, you might not see thecrew, you know, all, all week or,
you know, for, for, you know, untilthey come in to get that paycheck.
Some of the office peoplewon't, won't even interact.
(40:14):
And like, I, I, I love thatidea that like, because like.
You know, they're, they're busy, theygotta be out there on the job sites, but
like, you still want to have that, thattouch, you know, that, that opportunity
to touch base and like, and to hear, youknow, and, and for them to share their
wins, like, that's such an importantthing that like, you know, people
need to be recognized and, and, andjust acknowledged for their hard work.
(40:36):
And if, if you don't find a way to,to do that, then, you know, sometimes
it can feel like they're, they're, youknow, they're, they're not being noticed.
They're not, you know, thatthey're not appreciated.
Like, just that act of likeletting you know, people share
their wins is, is, is so valuable.
And I think that really does createthat strong bond, you know, with
everyone on your team that like,you know, it, it, it, it helps 'em
(40:58):
start the day with, you know, with agreat positive experience, you know.
Michael (41:02):
Right.
You know, and it's, it's really been neat.
Also, there's been times where ourcarpenters have been on the job site
and it's time for the Zoom call anda client will get on the call and go,
Hey, we're on, we're this or we're that.
You know, and it ends up just beinglike this whole community thing that's
(41:23):
just been really cool for clientto see it, uh, employee to see it.
There's been times where my carpentershave been in Home Depot on a video call.
I see the orange racks in thebackground or something, you
know, it's been really cool.
Just, it's just part of our culture.
Eric (41:40):
Yeah, I, I love it.
I mean, and you know, again, you,you, you've obviously, how seen how
we love to, to involve our customers,you know, coming, you know, to our
office and being part of that culture.
Like, I, I, I, there's, there'sjust something about it.
I mean, it, it, it not only like, youknow, is, is exciting for, for the client.
But like, it's also exciting for ourteam to be able to see how excited
(42:01):
the clients are and, and, and how muchthey appreciate and to hear firsthand
the impact that they're making.
Because a lot of times, like if, ifyou don't find those ways to, you know,
to have that shared back to the team,like, you know, aside from, you know,
maybe a, a Google review or, or a videotestimonial or something, like, they
might not always have that opportunityor, or maybe only one or two people, or
project manager or the, the salesperson.
(42:23):
Like they heard it and then it'ssort of being like shared, you know,
third party or, you know, kind ofjust, you know, shared, you know,
secondhand to, to, to everyone else.
But like, man, anytime you get anopportunity to put your customers directly
in communication to share with yourwhole team, it is like, so valuable.
I, I, I, I think it's the most valuablething that you can do to continually
motivate and inspire your team when theyrealize what an impact they're making is.
(42:49):
And, and, and there's no better way todo that than just let 'em hear it, you
know, raw, fresh, right out of the,you know, right from the horse's mouth.
Michael (42:55):
Yeah, sure.
Well, everybody wants to be fulfilled.
I wanna be fulfilled.
I want to know that what I'mdoing is makes a difference.
And so does everybody else andyou, and I's job is to create
that opportunity so that they canfeel fulfilled within their job.
And so, you know, doing that, the journeyin doing that and being vulnerable when
(43:18):
you screw up or when things aren't goingvery well and landed out there like, guys,
I don't know what I just did, you know, Idon't know what I'm doing, you know, but,
uh, I believe that the team that we'vecreated are, everybody see through that,
see through the, the, the facade of thingsand really the heart of what I'm trying to
(43:45):
do and what I want to see out of them andthe success that I want them to create.
And I believe if, ifthey'll allow me to, that.
They'll, they'll benefit off of theirown accomplishments, of their goals, and
then the company will do the same thing.
(44:06):
And as a result of them accomplishingtheir goals, the business,
the company becomes a, uh, abeneficiary of, of their results.
Eric (44:17):
absolutely.
So earlier, you know, you,you mentioned goal setting.
I, I'd love to dig into that a little bit.
H how do you, how do you go about, youknow, thinking about goals, setting
those goals and then tracking them andholding, you know, holding yourselves
accountable, celebrating those wins?
Like what, share a littlebit more about that.
Michael (44:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm probably a little extremewith it than probably most.
I write my goals down every morning andevery night I keep it in front of me.
I have a vision board at myoffice that paints the picture.
I keep it always in front of meand I'm looking at it every day.
(44:58):
And I feel like a lot of people willwrite something down and it's just
this way out there thing that the hopeis that you get it, but the reality
is it probably not going to happen.
And so by keeping it in front ofme every day, and then also getting
(45:20):
detailed with it, if, if my goalis to write down or to run a mile.
Well, that's great.
Now what are you goingto do in running a mile?
Like, are you gonna hire a coach?
Are, and if you want to accomplish a milethis, what are the things you gotta do?
So creating the, the smartgoals of is it attainable?
(45:46):
Is it, you know, uh, uh, measurable?
And, and so I encourage all of my teamto do the same thing we get together.
Um, a lot of people callit a performance review.
I don't call it a performance review.
I think that's a negative, um, uh,like a negative connotation or a
(46:06):
negative, uh, understanding whereit's, I want to see an impact.
And so what can we do and get together sothat they can create a runway, they can
create some things and put some things inplace to make an impact for themselves.
And so, um.
(46:28):
I bring my manager in with thatemployee we share and we talk
about what they want to do.
And you know, probably like yourself,if there's something negative going
on with an employee, you don't have towait till a performance review, right?
You are gonna handle that waybefore some performance review.
(46:50):
So I just take that name out of theequation and I look at it and go, how
can we, how can we make an impact?
What type of goals?
What are you going todo to accomplish that?
I want to run a mile or run a fivemile, or I want to do an Ironman,
or I want to do whatever thatis and set those simple things.
(47:12):
I had one individual say, Michael,I wanna learn how to play a guitar.
And the opportunity thatwith him just sharing that.
I just happened to have a guitarthat I was not even using.
He didn't even have a guitar.
And I'm like, here,here's a guitar for you.
And when we start sharing ourgoals, we don't know who in the team
(47:39):
can help and assisting with that.
And, and so it becomes a team effort.
It becomes very collaborative when weshare, when all of us are part of it.
And we know you never know what sort ofresources you have, Eric, that can help
me accomplish my goals and vice versa.
(47:59):
And so bringing all that togetherand helping with each individual
where it's, it's, it's personal.
But also if I, I know that when Ihelped an individual just even with
accountability and accomplishing a goal.
(48:20):
The business really benefitshuge out of it as well.
Eric (48:24):
So, so you're, you're, you're not only helping them set goals, like
kind of their own individual goals atwork, but also in their personal life.
Michael (48:34):
Absolutely.
Eric (48:34):
I mean, that's incredible.
I mean, you know, like, I don'tknow anyone that does that.
That is awesome.
I mean, like, it, it shows you trulycare about the person and like Yeah.
Like that, that right there, Michael,that is why you have people working for
you for 19 years is because like youare, you know, again, like you're, you're
(48:54):
not just their boss, you know, you'retheir friend, you know, you're their
coach, you know, you're a, a, a, a lifeinspiration to them to encourage them
to go and hit their own personal goals.
Like, I mean, like, yeah,like, there you go, man.
Like that, that is awesome.
What, what do you, what do you, so, sowhat do you call that if you don't call
it a performance review, which I seewhy now you don't, is it, you know, like
(49:17):
what, what do you call this meeting?
If you had to put it on theschedule, on the calendar?
What is it, you know, a, a goal reviewmeeting or what, what do you, you know.
Michael (49:23):
It's, um, we have just renamed it, um, I don't even remember
the name Eric, uh, but it's, um, uh,oh, I can't even remember the name.
We just changed the name this week andwe had our first, uh, employee that we
(49:44):
did the one-on-one under that new name.
Oh, I wish I would've been preparedto, uh, to share that with you, man.
I can't even
Eric (49:52):
it'll, it'll come to you when we move on.
I'm
Michael (49:54):
Absolutely.
Eric (49:56):
That's, that's so neat though.
I mean, I, I, I I love that you do that.
Michael (49:59):
and also Eric doing that when I tap, I believe when I tap
into the personal side of, of anindividual, they're also giving me.
The freedom to push them as welland to keep them accountable and
to lean on them hard, and theysee the results on both ends.
(50:24):
They, Michael's here to help.
Michael's here to encourage, but Michael'salso going to lean on me, hard to, for all
of us to accomplish our goals together.
You and I both know that it, thisstuff just doesn't happen with ease.
And in order for them toaccomplish their personal, their
(50:44):
professional, their, their, um,financial goals, it takes effort.
It takes some discipline, it takesmomentum, it takes encouragement,
uh, it takes accountability.
And, you know, probably the biggestthing is probably discipline.
And so, uh, encouraging them givesme, gives I feel like gives a little
(51:10):
bit of freedom to, to lean on them.
Eric (51:14):
Yeah.
No, that makes, makes total sense.
I mean, that's, uh, super insightful.
So, so I'm curious, you know, like where,you know, when, when you think about
the, you know, the, the growth thatyou've had and, and the goals that you
have set for the company, like what'sthe, what's the longer term vision here?
You know, where, where do you want, youknow, to grow Michael James remodeling?
(51:34):
Like where do you see itin the next five, 10 years?
Michael (51:37):
Yeah.
Great question.
Um, so our big goal is to.
You know, it's, I hate to evenput a dollar amount to it 'cause
it's not about the dollar amount.
You know, our, our big goal is to be,you know, a hundred million dollar
company over the next, uh, 10 years.
But bigger than that is just the impactand the journey that I want to see and
(52:02):
the growth that I want to see during that.
And right now we're, wehave one main office.
We've just bought a piece of property to,uh, branch out into our second office.
I'm already starting to think about ourthird office and creating this triangle
of servicing a bigger area, servicingclients, and then creating this triangle,
(52:28):
creating the system for the trianglewhere I can multiply it into other states.
And that's really the big goal.
But.
The journey in that is, youknow, with my cycling background,
everything goes back to a bicycle.
I look at it as a bicyclewheel and us being the hub, but
(52:49):
there's so many opportunities.
There's all these businessesthat can come from the hub.
There's all the partnershipsthat can come from the hub.
And if I can raise up individuals thatinstead of them moving on to start their
own business, why not start it together?
Why not be a part of the umbrella?
(53:11):
And we just service clients as a teamcollectively, and we just become big
naturally and we naturally get to this ahundred million dollar goal through just
servicing and impacting people's lives,
Eric (53:28):
Yeah.
Michael (53:29):
you know?
Eric (53:29):
and, and, and I, and I hear you on the, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to.
You know, to, you know, and,and, and, and, and, and I'm,
I'm, I'm very much with you.
Like, it's, it's not about the money,but like, you know, revenue is such an
easy metric to be able to track that.
It, it gives you that benchmark.
It gives you that, thatquantifiable thing.
Like it can be very difficult toquantify like, the impact and, you
(53:53):
know, the, you know, how, how, how,how, you know, it's like how many
lives, I guess you could look at howmany projects or things like that.
But like, you know, it, it just, uh, it,it can be hard to, to kind of set some
sort of a, you know, a quantitative goal,you know, with without, you know, it.
Being that, you know, that revenue,but, you know, makes total sense.
And, and I, and I love your, you know,I, I, I think that again, it's, it
that's a grand, you know, vision, agrand goal that will force you to spread
(54:18):
yourself and create these multiple, youknow, locations and service areas and
like, you know, in and of that, that,you know, you'll have the challenge of
now like, okay, well, you know, where,where is Michael gonna be every day?
And like, how do you take and instillthat same, you know, leadership that,
that, you know, it sounds like you, you'vealready done in your whole leadership
team, but like, being able to continue toreplicate that and have that same culture
(54:40):
and that same feel when you have moreand more people in different locations.
You know, it's, it's a whole newset of challenges that I'm, I'm sure
you're up for, but, you know, it'll,it'll be really interesting to see how
that, you know, kind of how you, youbuild that out and, and obviously, I
mean, there's, there's no rush, right?
You know, there's,there's no real timeline.
It's, again, we're just kindof setting this arbitrary, you
know, in the next 10 years.
But like, you know, you get to controlthe speed and how fast and, and I'm,
(55:03):
I'm a big believer in controlled growth.
Is very important.
Like you don't wanna, you know,bite off more than you can chew.
You don't wanna over hire where again,like you start, you know, sacrificing
like quality and, and, and maybe you don'thave the right people, but you needed to
fill the seat because, you know, whatever,you know, you got this office open.
Like, so I think it's all about, youknow, finding that right pace that you
(55:24):
can keep that same high level of quality.
The culture, you know, the, the,the everything that you've done
today in your current space.
It'll be really exciting to see yoube able to replicate that because
obviously you've seen the impact thatyou've made on all of your clients'
lives, your employees' lives, everyonethat, that, that you guys work for.
Yeah, I think it's awesome.
And, you know, if you can take thatinto multiple states, like I, I have no
(55:45):
doubt Michael, that you know, just whatyou have built and, and even just this,
this conversation right here, like.
This will inspire people to want to comejoin your culture and, and, and join
your company, and join, you know, in onthis mission that you have set forth.
Because like, again, like youtruly care about the people and I,
and I think that's what inspirespeople to want to follow others.
(56:07):
Is when they know that thatperson has their best interest.
And it's not just about them.
It's not just about their ego or feedingtheir, their bottom line or their pocket.
Like it's about making animpact on the world around us.
You know, and, and, and however big orsmall that world is, like, you know, we
all have our own little world around us.
And like, when you can truly findfulfillment in giving back and helping
(56:28):
others and being part of a larger cause,like that's what brings you joy in life.
It's, it's not that paycheckthat you cash, you know, or
really it's just automaticallydeposited, you know, this day.
And, you know, bills comein and out like that.
That's not what life is about.
That's not what brings happiness,you know, that's just meeting the
bare necessities, you know, to beable to financially live, you know,
it's, it's about that fulfillment.
(56:49):
And I think being part of yourcompany and, and, and being able to
work hand in hand with you and yourleadership team and your whole team
like that will fulfill so many people.
And I can only imagine the experience thatyour clients have, you know, getting the
opportunity to work with you all as well.
It's gotta be, it's, it's gotta be
Michael (57:05):
it's been fun.
And you know, Eric, when, when wewere at your bootcamp, and I shared
this with you when we talked a littlebit that morning when you shared your
steps, your 10 steps, I was like,it's more than a software company.
You know, the softwarecompany is just a vehicle.
The impact that you wanted tomake in other entrepreneurs,
(57:28):
in your clients, in your team.
I was like, I wanna follow this guy.
I want to be a part of this,not just for the software.
There was more, and it was reallycool to see the parallel mission and
vision that we have as entrepreneurs,that what we're doing is just a
(57:49):
vehicle to impact people's lives.
Eric (57:52):
absolutely.
So look, I, I, I, and, and, and kindof wrapping up here, I see we're
getting close to the top of the, like,I, I, I'd, I'd love for you to share.
You know, any advice that youwould have for others who are
earlier on in their journey?
Maybe they just started theircompany, they're thinking
about starting their company.
They're, they're, you know, a fewyears in whatever it may be like,
you know, are, are there any, like,you know, lessons that you've learned
(58:13):
that, you know, you wish you would'veknown earlier on or, or something that
like you would've done differentlyif, if you were to start over today?
Like what, what advicewould you share to others?
Michael (58:22):
I think the biggest thing is it's one, it's never too late to to start.
Uh, regardless of your age and dreambig, write it down and you are going
to have the people already know that.
You're going to have the people tosay, that's dumb, that's stupid.
You're not gonna make it.
That's crazy.
Don't do it.
(58:43):
Let that be fuel.
Take that.
You can't do it to be fueland just keep pedaling.
Just keep putting one foot in front ofthe other every time there's a failure.
Just get up.
Just know that tomorrow's a new day.
Regardless of the discouragement,regardless of whether you
(59:05):
think you need to, uh, hang itup, just keep moving forward.
And if we know the direction thatwe're going to, that, that know the
end results that we want, then we won'twake up one day in a different location.
That's where we're going, that'swhere we're going to end up.
(59:25):
Someone that doesn't have a goal,someone that doesn't have any sort
of aspirations or uh, know wherethey want to go, they're gonna end up
somewhere that they had not planned.
And so know where you want to go.
Eric (59:37):
I love it.
Uh, thank you so much, Michael,for, for coming on, for
sharing all of this insight.
I mean, this is, this has been oneof my favorite, uh, podcasts here.
You know, it just, it, it just, your,your, your wisdom, your leadership.
The inspiration, the motivation that youprovide to, to your team, to your clients.
I mean, I'm feeling motivated ascould be, like, you know, this is
(59:58):
just so exciting and, and I just, Ireally appreciate you, what you do.
It's an honor to, to be just alittle fly on the wall here, getting
to watch you build this businessfrom, from the software side.
But like, I can't wait to see, you know,how you guys continue to grow to expand.
I have no doubt.
It's gonna be amazing.
And, uh, yeah.
I just thank you for, for being youand for everything that you do for the
(01:00:19):
community and for everyone around you.
It makes a huge impact andwe're all very grateful.
Michael (01:00:23):
Thank you Eric.
Appreciate the opportunity.
Appreciate you being on, and, uh,look forward to seeing you soon.
Eric (01:00:29):
Alrighty.
Have a good one.
Welcome back everybody.
I am really excited today.
I've got a very specialguest, Michael James.
He is the owner ofMichael James Remodeling.
They're located in Gainesville, Georgia.
I had the honor and the privilegeof getting to spend a little
time with Michael, uh, whatwas it like a week or two ago?
He was at our job Tread, uh,bootcamp here in Dallas, Texas.
Got to know him.
(00:38):
Just really incredible story.
Excited to have you on to Builder Stories.
Welcome to the show, Michael.
Michael (00:43):
Thanks Eric.
It is been, what a pleasure to behere, an honor, and just an amazing
time we had at your bootcamp,just learning about Job Tread.
Came back super excited to sharewhat we had learned, so really
excited to go out there, spend sometime with you guys as well as be
on your, uh, on the Builder Show.
Eric (01:02):
Awesome.
Well, why don't you, uh,give us a little background.
Tell us, you know, alittle bit about yourself.
How'd you get into construction?
What led you to start, uh,your, your business here?
Michael (01:12):
Yeah, thanks Eric.
Uh, so 27 years ago is when Istarted my business, uh, back in 98.
But prior to that, you know, I, Ialways loved to just work with my hands.
When I was a kid, my parentswould not give me basketballs and
footballs and things like that.
They would give me chop saws and skillsaws and table saws, and I didn't know
(01:35):
what I was doing, you know, at that age.
But I just loved to work with my handsand had the opportunity to work with some
master carpenters at a really young age.
Learned a lot of aspects ofjust construction in general.
And jumped out there on my own, uh, askedthem, uh, if they would support me, be
(01:57):
willing to help me out in doing things.
They said, yeah, Michael,we'll support you.
And it's been 27 years.
I haven't heard a thing from 'em since,so I just had to figure it out on my own.
Uh, but you know, throughout the last27 years, it's just been a journey
of, I really thought that growthwould just naturally come because
(02:19):
you just had a desire for growth.
You know, I didn't really know that therewas so many other pieces of the puzzle.
The puzzle of, or the pieces of thepuzzle, like mindset, uh, goal setting,
intentions, all of those things thatreally just help, really guide you and,
(02:40):
and having a, an ultimate goal, youknow, trying to put a direction into.
A GPS, you know whatdirection you're going to go.
And so that's what we at, at first,I didn't really know to do that, and
it wasn't until about six years ago Ireally set those intentions, and once
(03:04):
I set those intentions, Eric, it wasjust like the light switch went on.
You know, I never knew that I wasmissing that piece of the puzzle.
And so putting people in my path and goingto conferences like yours and different
things really helped put me on the pathwayto looking at my big goal and going,
(03:30):
there's no reason why it can't happen.
I, it's there, it's out there.
And so now it's just been the journey of.
What does it take?
Building the right team, buildingthe culture, making mistakes,
falling flat on my face.
And, but I think more than anything,Eric, it's been just the journey, how fun
(03:51):
it's been, of just figuring things out.
And even going to your bootcamp and goingthrough your office and seeing your team,
seeing how you've built your culture.
I come back and go, we gottado this, we gotta do that.
Let's do this, let's do that.
You know, to really, you know, you've,you're, you're one or two chapters
(04:13):
or three chapters ahead of us inthis book of, of entrepreneurship.
And so it's, it was really coolto, to be there, be a part of it,
hear a little bit of your story andyeah, I came back super excited.
Eric (04:26):
Awesome.
Yeah.
You know, it's, uh, it being anentrepreneur really is a journey.
And, uh, there's, there's a lot ofups and downs, a lot of challenges.
You know, you, you, youface 'em all eventually.
Uh, but yeah, su super, superinteresting to, you know, to, to see.
I mean, again, you, you've been at itfor a long time, so, so tell us just
kinda real quick, so like, you know,what types of remodels are, are you
(04:46):
guys doing the types of projects, kindof average job size, things like that?
Michael (04:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we're a full designbuild, remodeling company.
Most of our projects we're, we'repositioned around a very popular lake
in Georgia, so a lot of tourists, uh,that come to the lake, a lot of second,
uh, homeowners that are living there.
So it really attracts a luxurylevel side of clients, and so we've
(05:13):
really put a lot of focus into that.
I would say our average remodelis sitting around 250,000.
Uh, right now we've got some thatare in the millions, some that
are in the tens of thousands.
Uh, we don't typicallysay no to, to projects.
We let our process and our value andeverything determine for a client
(05:36):
what, what direction they want to go.
Eric (05:39):
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
I mean, and would it, would it, wouldit be, uh, appropriate for me to, to,
to go out and, and, and venture thatyou didn't always have that size of.
Project.
I mean, I, I can only imagine a,a a million dollar remodel is, uh,
one, one hell of a job for you.
Michael (05:52):
Absolutely.
You know, I guess it was about, maybeabout four years ago, I was so excited
to do a hundred thousand dollars remodel.
I'm like, I have hit the golden ticket.
You know?
And even then it was like the challengesthat you faced in doing that, the,
(06:13):
the upscaling of doing things, uh,bringing on at that particular job, we
brought on a new software and navigatingthrough that and even telling the
customer, oh, look at this portal.
You get to access.
And it was a total flop.
I mean, it was a flop, you know, butit was the start, right of just little
(06:35):
by little tackling one item and going,let's get, let's, let's do this and
master that, and then let's go tothe next item and let's master that.
You know, looking back over the journeyof five or six years of doing this
now, I, I, I have to remind myself thatfive years ago, my goal then was like,
(06:59):
I want to be a $3 million company.
What amazing feat that would be, and then6 million, like, and even at times getting
discouraged because I'm not at what Ireally want to be at, but reminding myself
that I am walking in my dream right now.
I'm walking in what I set two yearsago and three years ago, and sometimes
(07:25):
I get distracted, you know, of like,I'm not hitting that, that number
I want to be at, but taking a stepback and going, no, I really am.
I, I am walking in that dream.
Eric (07:38):
Yeah, that's, that's awesome.
And you know, having that realization.
You know, I, I really think is, is soimportant to just help you appreciate,
you know, that, that, that this isn'tlike a, you know, I, I'm done or I,
I, I hit my goal or I miss my goal.
It's, it's about, you know, the, thejourney of, of doing it and, and, and
realizing that like, you know, everyday we're, we're taking more steps
(08:01):
forward, you know, but we're continuingto grow and we're continuing to improve.
And I think having that, you know,that, that, again, that focus and
that appreciation of, you know, thisis, this is the journey we're on,
this is the lifestyle we've chosen.
It does sometimes help sort of, youknow, tamp down some of those like
pressures that, you know, reallyare, are self-inflicted pressures.
But, you know, again, we, we,we all want to, to, to push
(08:21):
ourselves to do more and do better.
And, you know, I think it's, it'sabout, you know, also being able to
stop and, and realize, man, look athow far we've come and, and see the
road behind you that you've traveled.
I mean, you know, it's, uh, it's,it's, it is really powerful to, to
be able to have that perspective.
Michael (08:35):
And, and the lives that have been impacted in the journey.
You know, the employees that havecome and their life has changed,
their life has transformed.
As we transformed somebody'shome, there are team members and
clients that we're able to impact.
And sitting back and, and seeingthose things unfold in front of you,
(09:01):
intentional or not intentional, is likeso fulfilling to be able to go, wow,
look at the lives that we were chained.
It's not about just the money aspect,it's not about filling your pockets with,
with heck, Eric, you probably like me.
We would probably quit a long time ago ifit was about filling our pockets, right?
(09:22):
But the impact and the difference that.
Our efforts and our sweat and bloodand tears have created, and with
the hope and goal that, you know,it won't be so stressful at times or
so, um, so intense, but being ableto see lives transformed, you know,
(09:45):
it's, it's just really super special.
Eric (09:48):
How, how do you think you, how do you think you came to, you know,
realize this and appreciate this?
Michael (09:56):
Hmm, that's a great question.
You know, I think I transitioned in 2019.
I had spent that 20 years of havinga business and I just was, again,
wanted it, I wanted big stuff, but Iwasn't really doing anything about.
(10:17):
Big stuff.
But what I was doing was some big stuff.
Personally, I rode my bicycle acrossthe United States twice, but on
one of those journeys I was broken.
Eric, I, I'd gone through a divorce.
I had just, life just hit me, youknow, and lost everything I had through
(10:37):
the 2008 downturn in the economy.
And I had to, I had to make a decisionthen to rebuild and I wasn't going to
let a circumstance change the outcome.
And so I started rebuildingand I finally pulled myself
(10:59):
out of the, the, the slump and.
Again, accomplish all these great thingson a bicycle, rode my bike from Cal
or Canada to New Mexico in 23 days.
It, it was like allthis cool stuff, right?
But then I looked at it and I go, if Ican do that on a personal level, what
(11:21):
can I do on a business side of things?
What legacy can I create and leavewhenever I want out of the picture
and it to be carried, carried on?
And that was really the point in 2019where I, I made that conscious decision.
(11:42):
And the first thing I did was I hired acoach and I was sitting across the table
from this potential coach that I wasinterviewing, and he asked me a question.
He goes, how much money do youhave in your savings account?
And I told him, and he goes, ifI can quadruple that in one year.
Would you let me do it?
(12:03):
And I go, of course.
That's a no brainer.
Who wouldn't?
And he looked at me in theeyes and he goes, so do it.
And I was like, oh man,this guy means business.
But right then, Eric, it waslike I pushed all the chips
into the poker table, you know?
And I was like, I'm going to doit, and I'm going to want this more
(12:25):
than the oxygen that I breathe.
And so that's been the journey.
And so it shifted from accomplishingall these great things personally,
to intertwining personal andbusiness as one and going, I
am going to make a difference.
I am going to create a legacy and we aregoing to make an impact in our industry
(12:50):
and we're going to transform our industry.
That's what it boiled down to.
Eric (12:54):
I, I love it, man.
You know, it gets me firedup thinking about that.
I mean, I, you know, I, I don't knowhow you made it across the country
a couple times, but, you know,on a bicycle, I mean, that's, uh.
Uh, you know, that, that, that, that is,uh, quite the impressive, uh, feat there.
I mean, just the mindset that like,you had to, to have to not quit.
Like, I mean, I, I probably ride a couplemiles and be like, all right, where's
(13:15):
the, where's the, the, the bus pickup?
You know?
But, you know, that's, uh, I, I love howyou translated, you know that from, from
your own kind of personal experience toapplying it to your business and saying,
you know, I, I am devoted to this andwe are going to achieve these goals,
and we're gonna grow and we're goingto make the biggest impact that we can.
(13:35):
And, you know, again, it's, I, I seethat same, you know, relentless, like,
you know, pursuit to, to accomplishthat, that, that, that you obviously
had, you know, when, when you're doingit on your, your own personal journey.
So it's super neat to see that.
I love it.
Michael (13:47):
Well, and it was to me the phrase that.
I keep relying back to when I wasriding my bike across the states, I
had to just keep pedaling regardless ofthe things I faced, regardless of the
weather, regardless of getting run offthe road at one point by a car, finding
(14:08):
myself late, passed out, hit em, bankan embankment, firefighters coming
down into this embankment rescuing me.
But I had to make a decisionto go just keep pedaling.
And that's what it is foryou and I as entrepreneurs.
We get hit with circumstances, withlife, issues with you name it, right?
(14:33):
And we have to wake up and go,I just gotta keep pedaling.
And whether it's 10 milestoday or a hundred miles
today, you just keep pedaling.
And so I've just taken that message of.
That bike ride and that journey,and the times I did want to quit and
(14:55):
applied that to business and go, I amgoing to be faced with wanting to quit.
I am going to be facedwith discouragement.
I am going to be faced with setbacks.
However, those are all temporary.
It's just temporary.
The next day is a new day andyou wake up and you go, you know
(15:16):
what I'm gonna conquer today?
Eric (15:18):
I love it.
You know, I think, you know, probablyone of the, sort of, one of the obvious
things that, you know, from, from, youknow, an individual perspective to, you
know, a business or, or you know, kindof a team is that you, you know, with,
with the business, like you have theoption to surround yourself by others.
So can you tell us like, whatis it, what has it been like?
I mean, even going way back, like, youknow, what's, what's that journey look
(15:41):
like as you've built the team around you?
Like, have you, haveyou always hired people?
Did you, you know, make some,some of the wrong hires?
Like, how have you thought about, youknow, building the team and, and, and, and
what has that, what has that done for you?
Michael (15:54):
Yeah, and that's such a great point.
We're actually reading a book collectivelyas a team, uh, by John Maxwell, the
17 Irrefutable Laws of Teamwork.
And I'd say the, the challenge withthat is I've had to go from a me
perspective to a we perspective.
(16:17):
And set the ego aside andset the pride aside and
to other individuals.
And even when I may not agreewith it, sit back and go let
'em, let 'em do their thing.
If we get to the end and it'sstill the same results, we're good.
(16:39):
You know?
And so it's been, it's definitely beena challenge because I, I'm a go-getter.
I want to be in control.
I want to do it myself, and Iwanna look at individuals and go,
you can't do it as good as I can.
But it has taught me how to slow down.
It has taught me how to be abetter leader, to allow individuals
(16:59):
to succeed and then go, nowhow can I help them succeed?
How can I create a launching pad and arunway for them to have that same success
of I as I've had, and also realize.
I can't get to this ahundred million dollar goal.
Without 'em, there's no way you wouldn'tbe where you are at without the team.
(17:22):
No way I can do it without the team.
So it's a daily, uh, not a challenge, butit's a daily awareness for me to go make
sure you're bringing everybody together,that everybody is learning and going in
the same direction together, and lettingthem experience the setbacks, letting
(17:45):
'em experience the hard times, but alsobeing there to encourage, to support
and, and be there to listen to them.
Eric (17:53):
Absolutely.
I, I, I hear it all the time, and Iknow from my own personal experience,
like, you know, I think as, as, asentrepreneurs, one of the hardest
things to do is, is, is to let goand to delegate and, and to trust.
You know, that, that, that yourteam and the people around you, you
know, will be able to execute anddeliver and, and, and it's just like.
It's such a hard thing becauselike, you know, we know at the end
(18:16):
of the day the buck stops with us.
And so we want, you know, to toto, to do it and to do it right.
But like, you know, as you growand as you scale, like it's
just not physically possible.
You know, as entrepreneurs, likewe cannot do everything even though
we want to, you know, we can'tkeep putting on every single hat.
You know, you've gotta be able tofind people, you know, recruit people
(18:37):
who are better than you and putthem in the position to be able to
deliver, you know, even more than,than, than you would've been able
to do, you know, in an ideal world.
But like, you know, you've gottabe able to trust those people.
And, and I think it's justso hard to, to, to do that.
But when you can have that leadershipmentality and, and, and when you truly
care about developing your peopleand, and, and, and having them, you
(19:00):
know, be able to learn and have thoseexperiences, you know, sometimes our best
learning comes from trying and failing.
You know, and, and, and, and Ithink if you don't give people that
opportunity, then they're nevergonna reach their full potential.
And I think in, in general, it'll holdthe company back, you know, because
again, we, we, as entrepreneursand leaders and owners, like, we
can't do everything ourselves.
(19:21):
We've gotta build that team and we'vegotta motivate them and give them, you
know, the ability to take ownership.
Michael (19:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's a challenge, you know, to golet 'em thrive, let 'em do their thing.
You know, you want to step injust like our kids when our kids
are growing up, you wanna like,let me show you how to do that.
Don't do it that way.
You gotta let them experience that.
You gotta let them have theirmoment, even knowing that they're
gonna fall flat on their face.
Eric (19:49):
So how, how, how have you gone about trying to recruit and, and build a team?
Like where, where do you,where do you find your people?
How do you know when the righttime is to, to hire someone?
And, and how do you know they're the one?
Michael (20:03):
Yeah.
You know, that, that's, that's a greatquestion and probably, uh, uh, an answer
that I'll always be searching for.
Right.
Um, I, one thing I've really tried tolive by is hire slow and fire fast, and.
You know, I've gone, I've gone a coupledifferent approaches in hiring and in
(20:27):
the beginning when you don't have thefunds, you don't have the resources.
You can't afford the rockstaremployee, but you need somebody,
you need somebody to just handletask and to be able to delegate.
And so, you know, in thebeginning, I, I hired cheap.
And when hiring cheap, thatmeans I didn't get the skill.
(20:50):
So I had to teach.
And sometimes that's workedand sometimes it hasn't.
What I've seen is as we've grown, peoplehave to be willing to grow with you.
And if they're not willing togrow with you, you outpace 'em.
And then you're faced with, I'vegotta let this person go because they
cannot keep up with the same pace.
(21:13):
And so I've really, the effort thatI have put into this is really.
Showcasing the importance of everyindividual creating value and every
individual growing as the companygrows and never staying at one place.
(21:35):
And as we grow to a hundredmillion, I have to change.
If, if I knew how to get toa hundred million, I'd be
there, but I don't know how.
And so I have to make changes.
And if I have to make changes, so doeseverybody else have to make changes.
And so that's what I continue, continueto showed to the individuals, always
(21:59):
create value and also help themunderstand that it's not necessarily
about Michael James Remodeling,it's about what value they can, uh.
Create and have for themselves.
And if Michael James Remodelingis just a stepping stone for
their next future, that's okay.
(22:22):
You know, if I can be apart of that, I'm honored.
And one quick little story.
I had one little, one, uh, employeethat worked with me 19 years, and he
just recently moved back to his country,started his own business, and we, when he
first started with me, he's like, Michael,I'm gonna work with you three years.
(22:43):
And then that three years came andwent, and he said three more years.
Three more years.
But now he's got a littlecompany down there.
And I feel like I was a part of it.
I feel like I helped him in thatjourney, even though it was a
big bummer to see him go right.
(23:06):
He was such a, uh, genuine person.
He was such a hard worker.
Uh, but I believe that I was able tobe a part of him in his own growth.
And so I've just developed thatphilosophy of I'm here to help serve.
I'm here to help teach,I'm here to help others.
(23:28):
And if I'm part of that journey for a longperiod or a short period, I'm grateful.
Eric (23:34):
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome.
And, and, and what that says to meagain, like, you, you, you must be a
really great talent scout because youknow, you're, you're not only looking
at, you know, who they are today, butwho they have the potential to become.
And are they coachable?
Are they moldable?
Can you train them?
Will they, you know, have that hungerand that desire to learn and grow?
(23:55):
And those are, those are absolutelythe best people because like at the
end of the day, like we never know whatnew skill or trait or software or, you
know, technique or whatever it may be,that like we're gonna have to learn.
And when you have a team of people thathave that natural desire to continue
to improve and develop themselvesand, and that hunger for learning and,
(24:15):
and, and growth, like those are thepeople that are gonna be awesome at.
Taking on whatever new challenge youthrow at them, and they're gonna do it
with excitement and, you know, ease and,and, and so I think that's like great,
uh, you know, a great trait to lookfor in someone is really understanding
like that, that, that desire, thatpassion, that hunger, you know, I love
finding people that have that, that,that, that passion in their belly.
(24:37):
Like I, I, you cannot paysomeone to be passionate.
You cannot train someone to be passionate.
Like they, they eitherhave it or they don't.
And man, when you find thosepeople and you can just, you
know, unlock their potential, likethey just like soar, you know?
And, and I think it's great to find them.
Michael (24:52):
And I think it's real important on the front end when you're doing
those interviews to share that passion,that direction, where you're going,
what you, what you are looking for.
At that point, I'm asking thempermission to hold them accountable
for their goals, their personal,professional, and their financial goals.
(25:16):
I'm asking their permission.
'cause once they're on, it'slike we're doing this together.
You know?
And there have been times, Eric.
I could see it on the faces of theseindividuals when I'm interviewing and
going, yeah, they're not interested.
They don't want that accountability.
They don't want those commitments.
And it's really a good thing.
(25:38):
'cause then you, you, you realizereally quickly who's a good
fit and who's not a good fit.
You know?
And one other thing that's been reallycool, I would've never in a million
years considered hiring family.
You know, there's all the, thestereotypical things that go behind
(26:00):
that and the, the, the failure in that.
But I currently have, I think, sevenfamily members that work for me now.
And it started off with mysister and my dad had passed
away six or seven years ago.
And.
(26:20):
My sister was living in our hometownwhere he was, and we had our family
house that we needed to remodel and sell.
And I was like, you know what?
Why don't you just remodelit and I'll coach you?
You know, this was on thecoast of North Carolina.
She's eight hours away.
And so she did, and I her through it.
And I go to that our last, rightbefore the house sells to look
(26:45):
at it, to say our goodbyes.
And I'm looking at it throughthe remodeling filter going, wow,
she did a good job with this.
Like, this is pretty cool.
And I started asking her, then I'm like,why don't you come and work for me?
I, this is my vision.
This is where I'm going.
And the train is starting to move fast.
Like, why don't you get on board now?
(27:07):
It took her two yearsto, to come on board.
And she did.
I mean, and she has been arockstar, Eric, and that led.
To another fam, uh, my sister'shusband, he came on board.
I've got nieces and nephewsthat have been on board.
I ended up hiring my oldersister as my operations manager
(27:27):
and it's just been really cool.
Uh, not that we don't have thedynamic of family and all of that,
but it's also given me anotheropportunity to impact their lives.
It's given me another opportunity to also,how can I grow and not allow family to.
(27:49):
And to, to create any sort of dynamicthat's just not appropriate or it
doesn't fit with, with the growth.
I mean, they know that it's like, this isthe direction we're going, family or not.
And so it cre it has created differentchallenges, but it's been really,
really cool to look at it and go, wow,I would've never guessed this would've
(28:13):
been a family business, but now I lookat it and go, wow, this is pretty cool.
You know, to really be able to see thatand then them coming back to me and going,
Michael, this is what you've done for me.
This is the differenceyou've made in my life.
It's been a really neat journey.
Eric (28:31):
Yeah.
That's, that's exciting hearinga, a another story where,
you know, it, it has worked.
I mean, I, you know, I probably hear,uh, you know, nine outta 10 times
the story of, uh, you know, it didn'twork out when they hired their family.
But, you know, I think I sharedwith you, you know, my dad, he
was our, he was my CFO, my lastcompany, CFO, of this company, you
know, and, and, and I think that.
You know, again, as, as, as, as, asmuch as it, it might not work for a lot
(28:54):
of people when you can figure out howto make it work and, you know, you can
learn to appreciate and respect eachother, and you can't just have that, that
same, you know, we're gonna lash out ateach other just because, you know, we're
family or whatever we might've done.
You know, like you have to learn, youknow, how to, to be able to respect and,
and be professional and communicate,you know, in that, you know, company
(29:15):
environment, you know, versus, youknow, I think more things may go back
in the home, but like, you know, it's,it's, it's, it's been the greatest,
you know, reward and journey of mylife to be able to work with my dad.
And, you know, people alwaysused to ask me, well, what's
it like working with your dad?
It's like, well, one, I get, you know,I'm his boss, you know, but two, you
know, I mean, the whole, my wholelife I grew up and he was the boss.
Right.
You know?
But, you know, I, I think theother thing is like, you know, we,
(29:36):
we've, you know, I used to describeit as kinda like the 80 20 rule.
Like, you know, 80% of thetime everything's good.
We're loving each other.
20% of the time we're going for thejugular, you know, but like over the
years, like it really did, you know.
I would say kind of boiledout to, you know, 98, 90 9%
of the time, it's all good.
Yeah.
We sure have, you know, our, ourdisagreements from time to time, but like,
(29:56):
when you can learn to make that work,like I, I, I just love that like, you
know, I've been able to meld this likemy career, you know, my life and then
my family and, and have that all in one.
Like, it just, it makes thatjourney that much more rewarding.
There's nowhere else I wouldrather be than being here,
building this with my dad.
And, and I think the other cool thingabout it, and, and it sounds like this
(30:18):
has probably even had a bigger impact foryou, is like you can instill this, like
this notion of family into your culture.
And I think it, it, it just has thislike underlying tone of, of love and, you
know, just genuinely like looking afterpeople and helping people and bending over
backwards for people because you truly,truly care about them and you care about
(30:41):
their success and their development.
And so like, I, you know, I just,you know, for us and, and both of
my companies, like, we've alwayshad that family feel to our culture.
And I think it has been because ofmy dad and I, I mean, would you,
would you resonate with that as well?
Does that, does that ring true?
Michael (30:55):
absolutely.
Uh, you know, it's, it's so rewarding,uh, to, you know, look back at it and go
one, it really does, as an entrepreneur,it teaches you how to be a better leader.
You ca you're going to have so much moreopportunities to have those negative
moments and when you can learn how towork through those with a family member.
(31:21):
It's golden with therest of your employees.
You know, your family, you,they're always your family.
You can't fire 'em as your family.
You know, they may not work with youas, as the company, but you can't
ever fire 'em as a family member.
And so it really challenges you to makesure that you're always protecting that.
(31:43):
And if you're protecting that, thenit makes it easier to me to really
treat others within the company.
Even it, it just makes it easier.
Eric (31:55):
Yeah, I think, you know, as, as you heard, one of my favorite
sayings is, may the best idea alwayswin, you know, and I think, you know.
People when, when they've seen, you know,you know, my dad, he, you know, it, it, he
don't care what role, what people are in.
Like, you know, he, he would pushback on my ideas that he thought,
you know, weren't the best idea.
And I, and, and, and I think thatsort of helped others to also feel
more comfortable and confident,like, you know, challenging things.
(32:17):
Like, you know, I, I think it's veryimportant that people have a voice.
Like that's why you're on the team.
We want you.
To speak up and we want you,you know, to, to, to contribute.
And so, you know, I just, thiswhole notion of, oh, well he's
the boss, the CEO or whatever,like, you know, I, I hate that.
Like I want this to be as flatof an organization as possible.
I'm your peer right next to you.
Just 'cause I came up with an ideadoesn't mean it's the right idea.
(32:39):
The best idea.
Like, let me know your thoughts.
Like, let's, let's talk aspeers and let's just remove this
hierarchy and all that other crap.
Like, you know, justtell me what you think.
'cause like, I think youmight know better than I do.
So, you know, I think it, it's justnice to be able to have, you know,
that, that, that those people, and,you know, I think your family just
naturally feels more comfortablepushing back, you know, against you.
But then it, it, it encourages others.
(33:01):
And that I think ultimately doescreate this very healthy dynamic where
communication flows a lot easier, a lotmore naturally when people feel like,
you know, they can share and they cancontribute and they can give feedback.
You know, sometimes it's hard forpeople to, to feel comfortable
and, and I know it can be hard forleaders to, to receive that feedback.
I encourage people to go out and solicit.
(33:21):
The feedback, go ask yourpeople, Hey, how could I improve?
You know, as, as a leader,how could I do a better job?
And, and like, not only will you getgreat feedback, but like the respect
that you'll earn from your peopleby asking them is, is invaluable.
You know, I mean, it'll, it'll shockthem first and then, you know, when
they, when they really think about it,it might take them a couple days to
(33:43):
actually come back with, with some,you know, you know, deep thoughts.
But like, man, like, it just, itreally truly helps everybody grow when
you can have those, those types ofconversations and those relationships.
Michael (33:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's, we've incorporated a lot of thoseopportunities with the team of just
given feedback and, you know, you and Ias business owners, it is easy to pull
the, I'm the owner card, you know, I'vegot the name on the sign or whatever,
but that's not what we're building.
(34:14):
You know, we're to, to be able tolook at our team and go, wow, look at.
Look at their willingness to bevulnerable and share a weakness possibly,
and giving them that opportunityas well as seeing their own growth.
Uh, when my first, when my sisterfirst came on, she was a little mousy.
(34:37):
She was a little, I don't want,Mike's been doing this for so long.
Who am I to come in and have a voice?
And now I'm like, can you, can youlike soften your voice a little bit?
She's like, yeah, we're doingthis and we're gonna do this.
And when I look back at it, I'm like,this is exactly what would you want, you
(34:57):
want to your point, uh, Eric, you want anequal playing field where you've got all
these ideas to really help take us to thatnext level to help take us to that, that
growth point that we're all desiring for.
And it's, it's really coolwhen you slow down enough to
(35:18):
go, wow, look at their growth.
Eric (35:20):
Yeah.
So, you know, you've, you've also,you, you talked about how you and the
team are, are reading a book together.
I love that we've done thathere at Job Tread as well.
You know, what, what else, you know,from a, from a culture standpoint, would
you say, you know, you guys have, havebeen able to, to, to implement that has
really, you know, created that, thatstrong bond, that really strong culture
(35:40):
that, you know, has kept people there.
I mean, you know, a 19year, you know, employee.
I mean, that, that's, that, that isa testament to what type of company
you have built and the team andthe culture that you've created.
So like what, what would you attribute.
Two.
How did you create that?
Michael (35:55):
You know, that's a great question.
I, I believe part of it has just beenbeing accessible, uh, as, as their
boss, you know, just having an opendoor, being willing to just listen and.
And then incorporate little things likehaving luncheons, having get togethers
(36:17):
throughout the week, having opportunitywhere we all can come together.
Uh, every morning, uh, we do a, a callon Zoom where the whole team has gotta
get on for about 10 to 15 minutes andwe share a win from the previous day.
And that has really been coolto see our field staff and our
(36:40):
office staff come together.
And, and, you know, with our industryit's such a, an easy division of field
staff and, and office staff could goweeks and never see each other except
for to pick up a paycheck or something.
And so doing things on aregular basis, uh, to bring that
(37:00):
unity, uh, together as well as.
Once a week, early in the mornings, I havean opportunity with all of my carpenters
where seven o'clock in the morning it's,it's open for whether they want to come
or whether they don't want to come.
But for about two hours, from seven toabout nine, we build something together.
(37:22):
And so right now we're working onbuilding some playhouses for one for
a little girl, one for a little boythat we're gonna gift at Christmas.
And it gives one, it gives me theopportunity to put my nail bag on and
be be a carpenter, which I just love.
But also it gives me anopportunity to mentor.
It gives me an opportunity to spendtime with my guys and then it gives.
(37:46):
Our design team an opportunity to be apart in designing something, and then it's
going to eventually give the whole teaman opportunity to impact a child's life.
And so trying to create things thatbring things within the team together.
Uh, once a month with this book we'rereading, all of our leadership is.
(38:11):
Assigned to go over one to two chaptersonce a month with the whole team.
So we're reading it all together, and thenonce a month we'll sit down and we'll talk
through it all collectively as a group.
And some leaders within theteam get very creative with
an exercise of team building.
(38:33):
Others get more like myself.
I'm not very good atlike the exercise aspect.
I'm, I'm really good aboutmore of inspiration and sharing
people through my stories.
But once a month we're coming togetheras a group going, this is, this is
what we've learned through this book.
And, you know, there's somany great authors out there
(38:56):
that we all can learn from.
And I, I encourage my teamto either suggest a book or.
Uh, or I'll collectively, we'll comeup with a book on the leadership
team that we all can read together.
Eric (39:12):
That's, that's awesome.
I, I love that.
I mean, you know, again, the, the, the,the book reading and, and like, are your,
your carpenters also reading the book?
Michael (39:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Eric (39:21):
Wow.
All right.
That's awesome.
The field, the field, everyone.
And, and you said, so is it,it's, it's every single morning.
Your, your whole teamcomes together on Zoom.
Michael (39:29):
Yeah.
Every, every morning.
So every other, uh, Monday we'll have acompany meeting, and then we come together
on a Zoom call, uh, and just share justnot a whole lot of time, 10, 15 minutes.
Everybody just kind of goesthrough and they share a little
win, uh, of, of the previous day.
And if they don't really have a win,they, they may share, you know, I, I
(39:51):
did this, or I did that on the job site.
Eric (39:54):
I mean, that's awesome.
I mean, I, I just, such a cool wayto, to again, keep people feeling
like they're part of a team.
They're together.
Being able to just see eachother when you're right.
Like, I mean, you might not see thecrew, you know, all, all week or,
you know, for, for, you know, untilthey come in to get that paycheck.
Some of the office peoplewon't, won't even interact.
(40:14):
And like, I, I, I love thatidea that like, because like.
You know, they're, they're busy, theygotta be out there on the job sites, but
like, you still want to have that, thattouch, you know, that, that opportunity
to touch base and like, and to hear, youknow, and, and for them to share their
wins, like, that's such an importantthing that like, you know, people
need to be recognized and, and, andjust acknowledged for their hard work.
(40:36):
And if, if you don't find a way to,to do that, then, you know, sometimes
it can feel like they're, they're, youknow, they're, they're not being noticed.
They're not, you know, thatthey're not appreciated.
Like, just that act of likeletting you know, people share
their wins is, is, is so valuable.
And I think that really does createthat strong bond, you know, with
everyone on your team that like,you know, it, it, it, it helps 'em
(40:58):
start the day with, you know, with agreat positive experience, you know.
Michael (41:02):
Right.
You know, and it's, it's really been neat.
Also, there's been times where ourcarpenters have been on the job site
and it's time for the Zoom call anda client will get on the call and go,
Hey, we're on, we're this or we're that.
You know, and it ends up just beinglike this whole community thing that's
(41:23):
just been really cool for clientto see it, uh, employee to see it.
There's been times where my carpentershave been in Home Depot on a video call.
I see the orange racks in thebackground or something, you
know, it's been really cool.
Just, it's just part of our culture.
Eric (41:40):
Yeah, I, I love it.
I mean, and you know, again, you,you, you've obviously, how seen how
we love to, to involve our customers,you know, coming, you know, to our
office and being part of that culture.
Like, I, I, I, there's, there'sjust something about it.
I mean, it, it, it not only like, youknow, is, is exciting for, for the client.
But like, it's also exciting for ourteam to be able to see how excited
(42:01):
the clients are and, and, and how muchthey appreciate and to hear firsthand
the impact that they're making.
Because a lot of times, like if, ifyou don't find those ways to, you know,
to have that shared back to the team,like, you know, aside from, you know,
maybe a, a Google review or, or a videotestimonial or something, like, they
might not always have that opportunityor, or maybe only one or two people, or
project manager or the, the salesperson.
(42:23):
Like they heard it and then it'ssort of being like shared, you know,
third party or, you know, kind ofjust, you know, shared, you know,
secondhand to, to, to everyone else.
But like, man, anytime you get anopportunity to put your customers directly
in communication to share with yourwhole team, it is like, so valuable.
I, I, I, I think it's the most valuablething that you can do to continually
motivate and inspire your team when theyrealize what an impact they're making is.
(42:49):
And, and, and there's no better way todo that than just let 'em hear it, you
know, raw, fresh, right out of the,you know, right from the horse's mouth.
Michael (42:55):
Yeah, sure.
Well, everybody wants to be fulfilled.
I wanna be fulfilled.
I want to know that what I'mdoing is makes a difference.
And so does everybody else andyou, and I's job is to create
that opportunity so that they canfeel fulfilled within their job.
And so, you know, doing that, the journeyin doing that and being vulnerable when
(43:18):
you screw up or when things aren't goingvery well and landed out there like, guys,
I don't know what I just did, you know, Idon't know what I'm doing, you know, but,
uh, I believe that the team that we'vecreated are, everybody see through that,
see through the, the, the facade of thingsand really the heart of what I'm trying to
(43:45):
do and what I want to see out of them andthe success that I want them to create.
And I believe if, ifthey'll allow me to, that.
They'll, they'll benefit off of theirown accomplishments, of their goals, and
then the company will do the same thing.
(44:06):
And as a result of them accomplishingtheir goals, the business,
the company becomes a, uh, abeneficiary of, of their results.
Eric (44:17):
absolutely.
So earlier, you know, you,you mentioned goal setting.
I, I'd love to dig into that a little bit.
H how do you, how do you go about, youknow, thinking about goals, setting
those goals and then tracking them andholding, you know, holding yourselves
accountable, celebrating those wins?
Like what, share a littlebit more about that.
Michael (44:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm probably a little extremewith it than probably most.
I write my goals down every morning andevery night I keep it in front of me.
I have a vision board at myoffice that paints the picture.
I keep it always in front of meand I'm looking at it every day.
(44:58):
And I feel like a lot of people willwrite something down and it's just
this way out there thing that the hopeis that you get it, but the reality
is it probably not going to happen.
And so by keeping it in front ofme every day, and then also getting
(45:20):
detailed with it, if, if my goalis to write down or to run a mile.
Well, that's great.
Now what are you goingto do in running a mile?
Like, are you gonna hire a coach?
Are, and if you want to accomplish a milethis, what are the things you gotta do?
So creating the, the smartgoals of is it attainable?
(45:46):
Is it, you know, uh, uh, measurable?
And, and so I encourage all of my teamto do the same thing we get together.
Um, a lot of people callit a performance review.
I don't call it a performance review.
I think that's a negative, um, uh,like a negative connotation or a
(46:06):
negative, uh, understanding whereit's, I want to see an impact.
And so what can we do and get together sothat they can create a runway, they can
create some things and put some things inplace to make an impact for themselves.
And so, um.
(46:28):
I bring my manager in with thatemployee we share and we talk
about what they want to do.
And you know, probably like yourself,if there's something negative going
on with an employee, you don't have towait till a performance review, right?
You are gonna handle that waybefore some performance review.
(46:50):
So I just take that name out of theequation and I look at it and go, how
can we, how can we make an impact?
What type of goals?
What are you going todo to accomplish that?
I want to run a mile or run a fivemile, or I want to do an Ironman,
or I want to do whatever thatis and set those simple things.
(47:12):
I had one individual say, Michael,I wanna learn how to play a guitar.
And the opportunity thatwith him just sharing that.
I just happened to have a guitarthat I was not even using.
He didn't even have a guitar.
And I'm like, here,here's a guitar for you.
And when we start sharing ourgoals, we don't know who in the team
(47:39):
can help and assisting with that.
And, and so it becomes a team effort.
It becomes very collaborative when weshare, when all of us are part of it.
And we know you never know what sort ofresources you have, Eric, that can help
me accomplish my goals and vice versa.
(47:59):
And so bringing all that togetherand helping with each individual
where it's, it's, it's personal.
But also if I, I know that when Ihelped an individual just even with
accountability and accomplishing a goal.
(48:20):
The business really benefitshuge out of it as well.
Eric (48:24):
So, so you're, you're, you're not only helping them set goals, like
kind of their own individual goals atwork, but also in their personal life.
Michael (48:34):
Absolutely.
Eric (48:34):
I mean, that's incredible.
I mean, you know, like, I don'tknow anyone that does that.
That is awesome.
I mean, like, it, it shows you trulycare about the person and like Yeah.
Like that, that right there, Michael,that is why you have people working for
you for 19 years is because like youare, you know, again, like you're, you're
(48:54):
not just their boss, you know, you'retheir friend, you know, you're their
coach, you know, you're a, a, a, a lifeinspiration to them to encourage them
to go and hit their own personal goals.
Like, I mean, like, yeah,like, there you go, man.
Like that, that is awesome.
What, what do you, what do you, so, sowhat do you call that if you don't call
it a performance review, which I seewhy now you don't, is it, you know, like
(49:17):
what, what do you call this meeting?
If you had to put it on theschedule, on the calendar?
What is it, you know, a, a goal reviewmeeting or what, what do you, you know.
Michael (49:23):
It's, um, we have just renamed it, um, I don't even remember
the name Eric, uh, but it's, um, uh,oh, I can't even remember the name.
We just changed the name this week andwe had our first, uh, employee that we
(49:44):
did the one-on-one under that new name.
Oh, I wish I would've been preparedto, uh, to share that with you, man.
I can't even
Eric (49:52):
it'll, it'll come to you when we move on.
I'm
Michael (49:54):
Absolutely.
Eric (49:56):
That's, that's so neat though.
I mean, I, I, I I love that you do that.
Michael (49:59):
and also Eric doing that when I tap, I believe when I tap
into the personal side of, of anindividual, they're also giving me.
The freedom to push them as welland to keep them accountable and
to lean on them hard, and theysee the results on both ends.
(50:24):
They, Michael's here to help.
Michael's here to encourage, but Michael'salso going to lean on me, hard to, for all
of us to accomplish our goals together.
You and I both know that it, thisstuff just doesn't happen with ease.
And in order for them toaccomplish their personal, their
(50:44):
professional, their, their, um,financial goals, it takes effort.
It takes some discipline, it takesmomentum, it takes encouragement,
uh, it takes accountability.
And, you know, probably the biggestthing is probably discipline.
And so, uh, encouraging them givesme, gives I feel like gives a little
(51:10):
bit of freedom to, to lean on them.
Eric (51:14):
Yeah.
No, that makes, makes total sense.
I mean, that's, uh, super insightful.
So, so I'm curious, you know, like where,you know, when, when you think about
the, you know, the, the growth thatyou've had and, and the goals that you
have set for the company, like what'sthe, what's the longer term vision here?
You know, where, where do you want, youknow, to grow Michael James remodeling?
(51:34):
Like where do you see itin the next five, 10 years?
Michael (51:37):
Yeah.
Great question.
Um, so our big goal is to.
You know, it's, I hate to evenput a dollar amount to it 'cause
it's not about the dollar amount.
You know, our, our big goal is to be,you know, a hundred million dollar
company over the next, uh, 10 years.
But bigger than that is just the impactand the journey that I want to see and
(52:02):
the growth that I want to see during that.
And right now we're, wehave one main office.
We've just bought a piece of property to,uh, branch out into our second office.
I'm already starting to think about ourthird office and creating this triangle
of servicing a bigger area, servicingclients, and then creating this triangle,
(52:28):
creating the system for the trianglewhere I can multiply it into other states.
And that's really the big goal.
But.
The journey in that is, youknow, with my cycling background,
everything goes back to a bicycle.
I look at it as a bicyclewheel and us being the hub, but
(52:49):
there's so many opportunities.
There's all these businessesthat can come from the hub.
There's all the partnershipsthat can come from the hub.
And if I can raise up individuals thatinstead of them moving on to start their
own business, why not start it together?
Why not be a part of the umbrella?
(53:11):
And we just service clients as a teamcollectively, and we just become big
naturally and we naturally get to this ahundred million dollar goal through just
servicing and impacting people's lives,
Eric (53:28):
Yeah.
Michael (53:29):
you know?
Eric (53:29):
and, and, and I, and I hear you on the, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to.
You know, to, you know, and,and, and, and, and, and I'm,
I'm, I'm very much with you.
Like, it's, it's not about the money,but like, you know, revenue is such an
easy metric to be able to track that.
It, it gives you that benchmark.
It gives you that, thatquantifiable thing.
Like it can be very difficult toquantify like, the impact and, you
(53:53):
know, the, you know, how, how, how,how, you know, it's like how many
lives, I guess you could look at howmany projects or things like that.
But like, you know, it, it just, uh, it,it can be hard to, to kind of set some
sort of a, you know, a quantitative goal,you know, with without, you know, it.
Being that, you know, that revenue,but, you know, makes total sense.
And, and I, and I love your, you know,I, I, I think that again, it's, it
that's a grand, you know, vision, agrand goal that will force you to spread
(54:18):
yourself and create these multiple, youknow, locations and service areas and
like, you know, in and of that, that,you know, you'll have the challenge of
now like, okay, well, you know, where,where is Michael gonna be every day?
And like, how do you take and instillthat same, you know, leadership that,
that, you know, it sounds like you, you'vealready done in your whole leadership
team, but like, being able to continue toreplicate that and have that same culture
(54:40):
and that same feel when you have moreand more people in different locations.
You know, it's, it's a whole newset of challenges that I'm, I'm sure
you're up for, but, you know, it'll,it'll be really interesting to see how
that, you know, kind of how you, youbuild that out and, and obviously, I
mean, there's, there's no rush, right?
You know, there's,there's no real timeline.
It's, again, we're just kindof setting this arbitrary, you
know, in the next 10 years.
But like, you know, you get to controlthe speed and how fast and, and I'm,
(55:03):
I'm a big believer in controlled growth.
Is very important.
Like you don't wanna, you know,bite off more than you can chew.
You don't wanna over hire where again,like you start, you know, sacrificing
like quality and, and, and maybe you don'thave the right people, but you needed to
fill the seat because, you know, whatever,you know, you got this office open.
Like, so I think it's all about, youknow, finding that right pace that you
(55:24):
can keep that same high level of quality.
The culture, you know, the, the,the everything that you've done
today in your current space.
It'll be really exciting to see yoube able to replicate that because
obviously you've seen the impact thatyou've made on all of your clients'
lives, your employees' lives, everyonethat, that, that you guys work for.
Yeah, I think it's awesome.
And, you know, if you can take thatinto multiple states, like I, I have no
(55:45):
doubt Michael, that you know, just whatyou have built and, and even just this,
this conversation right here, like.
This will inspire people to want to comejoin your culture and, and, and join
your company, and join, you know, in onthis mission that you have set forth.
Because like, again, like youtruly care about the people and I,
and I think that's what inspirespeople to want to follow others.
(56:07):
Is when they know that thatperson has their best interest.
And it's not just about them.
It's not just about their ego or feedingtheir, their bottom line or their pocket.
Like it's about making animpact on the world around us.
You know, and, and, and however big orsmall that world is, like, you know, we
all have our own little world around us.
And like, when you can truly findfulfillment in giving back and helping
(56:28):
others and being part of a larger cause,like that's what brings you joy in life.
It's, it's not that paycheckthat you cash, you know, or
really it's just automaticallydeposited, you know, this day.
And, you know, bills comein and out like that.
That's not what life is about.
That's not what brings happiness,you know, that's just meeting the
bare necessities, you know, to beable to financially live, you know,
it's, it's about that fulfillment.
(56:49):
And I think being part of yourcompany and, and, and being able to
work hand in hand with you and yourleadership team and your whole team
like that will fulfill so many people.
And I can only imagine the experience thatyour clients have, you know, getting the
opportunity to work with you all as well.
It's gotta be, it's, it's gotta be
Michael (57:05):
it's been fun.
And you know, Eric, when, when wewere at your bootcamp, and I shared
this with you when we talked a littlebit that morning when you shared your
steps, your 10 steps, I was like,it's more than a software company.
You know, the softwarecompany is just a vehicle.
The impact that you wanted tomake in other entrepreneurs,
(57:28):
in your clients, in your team.
I was like, I wanna follow this guy.
I want to be a part of this,not just for the software.
There was more, and it was reallycool to see the parallel mission and
vision that we have as entrepreneurs,that what we're doing is just a
(57:49):
vehicle to impact people's lives.
Eric (57:52):
absolutely.
So look, I, I, I, and, and, and kindof wrapping up here, I see we're
getting close to the top of the, like,I, I, I'd, I'd love for you to share.
You know, any advice that youwould have for others who are
earlier on in their journey?
Maybe they just started theircompany, they're thinking
about starting their company.
They're, they're, you know, a fewyears in whatever it may be like,
you know, are, are there any, like,you know, lessons that you've learned
(58:13):
that, you know, you wish you would'veknown earlier on or, or something that
like you would've done differentlyif, if you were to start over today?
Like what, what advicewould you share to others?
Michael (58:22):
I think the biggest thing is it's one, it's never too late to to start.
Uh, regardless of your age and dreambig, write it down and you are going
to have the people already know that.
You're going to have the people tosay, that's dumb, that's stupid.
You're not gonna make it.
That's crazy.
Don't do it.
(58:43):
Let that be fuel.
Take that.
You can't do it to be fueland just keep pedaling.
Just keep putting one foot in front ofthe other every time there's a failure.
Just get up.
Just know that tomorrow's a new day.
Regardless of the discouragement,regardless of whether you
(59:05):
think you need to, uh, hang itup, just keep moving forward.
And if we know the direction thatwe're going to, that, that know the
end results that we want, then we won'twake up one day in a different location.
That's where we're going, that'swhere we're going to end up.
(59:25):
Someone that doesn't have a goal,someone that doesn't have any sort
of aspirations or uh, know wherethey want to go, they're gonna end up
somewhere that they had not planned.
And so know where you want to go.
Eric (59:37):
I love it.
Uh, thank you so much, Michael,for, for coming on, for
sharing all of this insight.
I mean, this is, this has been oneof my favorite, uh, podcasts here.
You know, it just, it, it just, your,your, your wisdom, your leadership.
The inspiration, the motivation that youprovide to, to your team, to your clients.
I mean, I'm feeling motivated ascould be, like, you know, this is
(59:58):
just so exciting and, and I just, Ireally appreciate you, what you do.
It's an honor to, to be just alittle fly on the wall here, getting
to watch you build this businessfrom, from the software side.
But like, I can't wait to see, you know,how you guys continue to grow to expand.
I have no doubt.
It's gonna be amazing.
And, uh, yeah.
I just thank you for, for being youand for everything that you do for the
(01:00:19):
community and for everyone around you.
It makes a huge impact andwe're all very grateful.
Michael (01:00:23):
Thank you Eric.
Appreciate the opportunity.
Appreciate you being on, and, uh,look forward to seeing you soon.
Eric (01:00:29):
Alrighty.
Have a good one.
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