July 2, 2025 • 49 mins
What do the most successful remodelers do differently? How do smaller companies break through growth ceilings and become industry leaders? Mark Richardson has spent his career helping contractors make that leap. As the former President of Case Design Remodeling, an author, and a trusted advisor to the industry’s top companies, he shares what it really takes to grow. Richardson breaks down the specific habits, metrics, and mindset shifts that help remodeling businesses scale. Whether you’re trying to grow revenue, improve profitability, or get your time back, this episode delivers clear, actionable advice.
In this episode, you will learn:
- How to find the sweet spot for your business
- How much time you should spend on marketing
- When to take on larger, more complex jobs
- Which five KPIs to track, and how often
- The habits that help owners lead and scale more effectively
Resources:
Learn more about Mark Richardson here.
Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back everybody.
Today I'm here with a special guest.
(00:22):
I've got Mark Richardson, who isthe former president and co-chairman
of Case Design Remodeling.
He's also written several books, youknow, done lots of educational, you
know, speaking authors, advising, justreally very well known, you know, very
involved person that has, has been veryactive in the remodeling community.
So, really excited to have you on today.
Welcome to the show, mark.
(00:43):
Thank you, Eric.
I'm happy to be here.
Yeah.
So why don't you give us, giveus a little bit of background.
You know, obviously I think you coulddo a little bit better job than I did,
but kind of tell us, tell us your story.
How, how did you kind of get,get to where you are today?
Excellent.
Yeah, so my,
Mark Richardson (00:57):
my roots are actually in architecture.
I, you know, in, uh, architectureschool, my thesis in the seventies and.
Probably long before manyof your listeners were even
born, uh, was design build.
And I would arm wrestle with my professorsthat if you could hook design and
(01:20):
construction together, uh, especially ata residential level, you could not only
have some, you know, amazing projects,but also pretty cool client experience.
And when I got outta school, I actuallystarted a little design build company.
Uh, with one of my thesis advisors.
We would go out and meet with prospects.
(01:42):
We'd develop the concepts, put togetherthe proposals, and then we would strap
on our tools and build it ourselves.
So it was the ultimate designbuild process and experience.
He decided to go back to teach, and thenI joined a fellow by the name of Fred
Case, who had a very small constructioncompany in the Washington DC area.
(02:05):
And I was kind of, the design element kindof bolted onto his little construction
company and we grew the company by about.
2000% over the course of six, seven years.
And, uh, uh, in large part based on kindof pioneering this theme of design build.
(02:26):
So we grew the design build business,uh, to a pretty substantial point.
Hit the nineties and got a littlebit shaky in terms of the market.
And then we launched a small projectsdivision called Case Handyman.
Many heard of that before.
And that's what we started.
That very quickly grew, uh, withinour business to be about half of
(02:49):
the revenue, but more importantly,about 10 times the number of clients.
So we really realized, wow, nowwe've got a pretty great client base.
What do we do with it?
We launched a. At thevision, a kitchen of vision.
And then 1998, we launched a,uh, a national franchise that
(03:10):
we grew the business in, in,in all the different areas.
So, uh, we, you know, when I steppeddown and passed the Bata and, uh, as,
as as president and became chairmanof the company, uh, we were just shy
of about a hundred million in revenue.
Uh, then for a few years aschairman, we, I kind of get started
(03:32):
to get more involved in otherthings within the industry itself.
Written several books, uh, as wellas got out and, and helped some of
the manufacturers and, you know,get out there and kind of educate
the industry in terms of things.
And then.
Since then, I've been just workingwith individual remodeling companies
(03:53):
as well as, uh, you know, myinvolvement with Harvard University's,
uh, remodeling futures program.
Um, and then, you know, being onsome, a few boards of companies.
Eric (04:04):
Yeah.
That's great.
Well, you know, again, very,uh, very decorated, you know,
career and obviously made a, madea huge impact on the industry.
I mean, you know, again,you're, you're, you're.
You know, regarded as, you know,helping pioneer the, the standards
for professionalism in the, theresidential remodeling industry.
I was, I was wondering if there's, uh,you know, maybe kind of a couple, you
know, these, these standards that, that,that you would want to maybe highlight
(04:25):
here that you think are just reallyimportant that, you know, any remodeler,
you know, is adhering to, to make surethat they're, you know, that they're,
they're living up to, to the industries.
Set standards there?
Mark Richardson (04:36):
Well, I think, you know, if with any remodeler that's
out there, especially early on in, youknow, in the process, I, I think that
you, you have to realize that, youknow, remodeling businesses, uh, are a
product for the most part, even the bestof the best of evolution, not desire.
(04:58):
I I say that in that, you know,unlike, uh, being an accountant or
a doctor or a, an attorney who goesthrough extensive education and then
gets into that, their business modelsare a product of design where most
small remodelers, you know, they.
(05:19):
Have some sawdust in their blood.
They have some passion tohave their own business.
They, uh, have a real interestin, you know, design or something.
And, you know, they put their fingers outand they start to do a few projects and,
and do something for their neighbors.
And before you know it, the quicksandgets up to their waist and they look at
(05:44):
their spouse and say, oh my goodness,I'm in the remodeling business, aren't I?
And then they start to evolve.
They start to fix, tweak, adjust,add different technologies
into what they're doing.
And I, I, I share that as a verynormal path for a simple reason in
that, you know, of 10 remodelingcompanies out there, there's nine
(06:06):
different ways that they do things.
So as much as you wanna say, okay,let me emulate, you know, McDonald's
in terms of how to do my hamburgers,or let me do it this way, you know,
you're starting from the, thisdialect that you created yourself.
So I think the more that you can startto think about how do I become better?
(06:29):
Not necessarily how do Ibecome different, or like you.
I think if you think of it that way, it'smuch more understanding business, looking
at the key business elements that, andthen focus on how do you get your stock to
rise in each one of those points and thenthat creates a good foundation for growth.
Eric (06:53):
Yeah, that, that makes total sense.
I mean, how do, do you see, likewhen you've, you know, again,
you've, you've looked at all sizesand scales of, of companies here.
I mean, like, do you see any commonpitfalls that you know, somebody
early on, you know, is, is skippingover or, or thinking that, you know,
you know, I don't, I don't, maybethey're neglecting it, you know, like
the, the sales side, the marketingside, like the business side.
(07:14):
Like, you know, so many people, they,they, they grow up with the tool
belt on and then they start to kindof get into the business side and.
You said it's so important that theyunderstand the business and those key
elements, like are there any, any areasin particular that, that you see people
kind of really sort of faltering on?
Mark Richardson (07:29):
Yeah, I do.
Uh, I think a lot of timesthere's a lot of misconceptions.
Quite frankly and false positives.
You know, when you're first startingyour business in the first, I would
say 2, 3, 4 years of your business,and I know this is easy for me to say
'cause I'm not having to pay your bills.
(07:51):
However, your real focus should bebuilding client base, not projects.
I know that sounds a littlebit like a wordsmithing.
Of course I'm in the project buildingbusiness, but if you can build this
amazing client base, imagine andfantasize that you have a hundred
raving fans as clients, uh, whatyou can do with that client base.
(08:17):
So one strong recommendation,focus on building your client base
more than just building projects.
Number two might beunderstand your sweet spot.
In life.
If we love something, we're probablygonna do it particularly well.
Well within business and withinparticular romanic business.
(08:40):
That's also true.
There's some people that just absolutelylove the smaller quick turn type
projects, and there are others that likethe longer planned type projects will
understand that they're different sizes.
There's different processes,there's different technologies
that are involved in these.
(09:01):
So know what you love to do inyour sweet spot of how you want
to develop and grow the business.
Um, and then last but certainly notleast, is really focus on building a team.
Growth is gonna become a productof the team, not just how many
additional pounds you can lift.
(09:23):
And if you can focus on building thatteam and whoever you're hiring, always
think about not just what that person'sgonna do for you now, how could they
evolve in your business in the future?
Eric (09:37):
Yeah, that's, uh, great, great advice.
I kind of wanna dive into toeach of those a little bit more.
So when, when you talk about.
Focus on building your client base.
Is that.
Is that like really starting to learn?
Who is your ideal, you know,customer look like, what, what, you
know, the characteristics, theirincome, their, their location.
Is that kind of what you're, whatyou're, you know, leading to here?
(09:57):
Well, I think
Mark Richardson (09:57):
that's part of it, Eric.
I, I think that yes, you, you,you do wanna understand and
have enough sophistication.
You can do some profiling in termsof demographics of your client and
certainly at the type of projectsfor them and, and all of that.
However, quite frankly.
What you really want more thanever is just to get out there and
(10:21):
help people of what you love todo and they will become a client.
One mysterious thing is you neverknow what that client is gonna give
you in terms of returns, meaningthey can be a maven for the company
or it may be a one and done.
So be careful not to judgethe book goodbye the cover.
(10:44):
Focus, at least from a metric pointof view on how do you build the
scale of the client base and thendon't become strangers with them.
We have a tendency, I think, sometimes tobecome strangers with our past clients.
So figuring out a way to keepin touch, figuring out a way to
communicate and, and, and, andreally hold onto that client base.
(11:07):
I think good, you know, isthe best advice I can give.
But yeah, to answer your question, yeah,understanding the demographics and a lot
of the data is great, but quite frankly.
Even if I have to get out there andjust do a lot of small projects to
build a client base that's gonna bebuilding your assets, that are gonna
(11:29):
give you good returns in the future.
Eric (11:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I hear a lot of times frompeople, they've, they've, they've really
found a lot of value in, in putting, youknow, focus on networking with, you know,
designers, architects, you know, realtorslike people who have this network and they
could, you know, just directly bring themclients, you know, and, and vice versa.
And so like, you know, maybe thatis also kind of going to, to, to, to
(11:53):
that point of like, you gotta focuson building a client base, you know,
because a lot of the remodels, Imean, you do, you get repeat business.
And so when you have that.
Built out.
That's a great way to just kindof, you know, check in every
once in a while, see if there'smore projects, things like that.
I think that's, it's, it's great advice.
Mark Richardson (12:08):
Yeah.
One way to quantify this, Eric, foryourself, uh, and I, I wrote a book on
the Art of Time Mastery, so I'm very uberfocused on the subject of time is well.
Is actually ask yourself, howmuch time am I actually putting
into building the client base?
(12:29):
How much time am I putting intomarketing related activities?
And for small remodelers.
Even medium sized remodelers whenthey're really honest with themselves.
You know, they might be onlyspending two, three hours a week
and it's just not enough time.
You know, two or three hoursa week is literally, you know,
(12:51):
less than 5% of their time.
It's put into the, probablythe most important thing.
So if you can figure out a way to say,okay, you know, I certainly have to keep
doing estimates and building projectsand managing and selling and doing all
the other things, but don't spend threehours a week, spend seven hours a week.
(13:11):
Sure.
How can I get it up to, you know,somewhere between five and 10% of my time?
And if in fact you can spend thatkind of amount of time on it, you're
gonna see much better returns.
Eric (13:24):
That's great.
And, and, and what would you sayfor people again, ear early on?
You know, I see a lot of people that,that kind of don't really know what
types of projects, you know, they, they,they want to, you know, focus in on.
And so they, they kind of just takeanything that, that comes their way.
And, you know, how do you kind of helppeople sort of realize where, you know,
they ought to sort of start kind ofniching down, you know, and, and is that.
(13:46):
You know, a recommendation.
I mean, obviously you brought up kind of,you know, is it a smaller, you know, quick
type project, you know, or do you like thelar the larger, more planned out projects,
but like, you know, do you recommendpeople kind of even start to look at,
you know, do you wanna do kitchens?
Do you wanna do bathrooms?
You know, do you wanna do additions?
Like how do you sort of helppeople kind like find their niche?
Mark Richardson (14:04):
Great.
Great question.
Finding your niche, you can either chooseyour path or you can throw out a net.
Allow enough different kinds ofprojects to come in, but then do
take inventory on a regular basis.
Which projects did yourteam like the best?
(14:24):
Which projects did youperform financially the best?
Which projects, you know, are youa sprinter in like the little ones
or are you a marathon runner inlike the longer planned project?
So I think when you throw everythingin a net together and do some analysis,
you're gonna realize that there arecertain projects when you look at
(14:44):
the financials as well as clientexperience and, and, and feedback.
There are certain types of projects thatare what I would consider your sweet spot.
And then start to, don't belimited, but start to design your
company around that sweet spot.
Let's say to your point, I'm reallyloving, I work with someone up in New
(15:05):
Jersey that loves doing bathrooms well.
He's always thinking, well,what about doing additions?
What about doing?
And I said, you know,his name is Sebastian.
I said, Sebastian, you'dlove doing bathrooms.
Let's just figure out a wayyou can do more bathrooms.
More bathrooms, you know,more effectively, and you're
gonna see a better return.
(15:26):
You're gonna grow the business ina really healthy way, so you've
gotta find that kind of thing.
One mistake, huge mistakethat remodelers make.
Small, medium, and even large ones.
I work with several companiesthat are over 50 million, and even
they make this mistake is what Icall chasing the shiny objects.
(15:48):
You know, they have a tendencyto wanna go out there and go
whale hunting all the time.
They think bigger is better, biggeris not better, better is better.
And the more that you understand what'sbetter and then really focus your
efforts going after that, you're gonnabe much happier and much more successful.
Eric (16:09):
Oh, that's great.
And, and it sounds like, you know, it's,it's, it's not just how you performed
financially on the project, but alsolooking at, you know, the, the, the,
the output, the client experience.
You know, there's other qualitative,you know, factors that come into play to
really trying to learn and identifyinglike, where is your sweet spot?
What do you wanna wakeup and do every day?
(16:30):
You know, go find more of those projects.
And I think a lot of the, the marketingand all of the, the, you know, the focus
that you put on getting yourself outthere, like when you can kind of reign
it into that specific thing that you wantto do, you know, that sort of just helps
kind of bring more of those projects in.
And then, you know, hopefully you don't.
End up taking on projects that aren't,you know, a great fit for you, where
again, you get yourself into hotwater and, you know, regret taking
(16:52):
the project on in the first place.
'cause it was outta your wheelhouse.
Mark Richardson (16:55):
Yeah.
After a period of time.
Eric, one key metric to keep aneye on when it comes to the right
size project to the right projectis the dollar amount of the sale.
You know, I really focus, I ask clientswho pro uh, uh, uh, remodels all the time.
What's your averageticket over the course?
(17:15):
The last year or two.
That metric really helps to understandif my average ticket, for example, is
$75,000 projects, then as you're thinkingabout it in a, and an opportunity comes
in, if it happens to be, you know, athree story edition on a house that
(17:37):
you know is not gonna be anywhere closeto that, it probably above 500,000.
Uh, you should scrutinize and really, uh.
Really be, be a little bit skeptical ofdiving into a project like that because
it's probably not your sweet spot.
Yeah.
And it probably not only youmight fumble bumble on it, you're
(17:58):
taking a lot more risk on it.
But again, with many remodelers,they think that's the holy grail.
If I could only do the $500,000 project,but when you really get a little bit more
gray hair like I have and you realize.
Gosh, I can do 10, 75,000 projectsfor every one 500,000 project,
(18:19):
and probably it may double theamount of gross profit on it.
Uh, I, I, I, and have a happierclient and happier team than maybe,
maybe that makes sense to do.
Eric (18:30):
Yeah.
No, that's, that's, that's great.
Great advice there.
I, I'm curious, you, you, youbrought up kind of key metrics,
you know, average ticket being one.
Are there, are there other key metricsthat you think a remodeling business
needs to be really, really dialed into?
Mark Richardson (18:45):
Yeah, great question and, and the way I look at key metrics,
Eric, is, and, and try to communicatethis, not to be clever, but to help
you understand if you think aboutthe key metrics in your business,
almost like the dashboard on your car.
You think about all those littleindicators on your car, and you
(19:05):
think about, okay, on your car, weknow very, very instinctively what
the three most important ones are.
It's your speedometer, it's your fuelgauge, and it's your temperature gauge.
We know those.
It's an integral part.
We don't need to, anytimeI ask an audience about it,
everybody gets those three right?
(19:26):
You also have with those three.
What's interesting is how you look atthose three is different from each other.
The speedometer, you might glance downat every three to five minutes I. The
fuel gauge, you might look at everyhalf hour or hour and the temperature
(19:46):
gauge may be once a day or something.
So how you look at med number one,knowing what the metrics are, but also
the cadence at which you look at themetrics, uh, really is quite important.
So going to your question, what doI think some of the key metrics are?
Number one is you, you,you have to focus on leads.
(20:12):
Uh, you know, what's that lead flow?
What's that fuel coming into the company?
I. And I think you need topay attention to those leads.
Now, there's a lot of sub data that comesout of that, leads that convert into
appointments, appointments into designcontracts and or into construction.
All those kind of thingsthat you've gotta match.
(20:34):
But at a high level, leads iscertainly one Second is sales.
I think initially, again, sales has subparts to it, but it's just what are my
sales per month, per quarter, and youknow, if you have an annualized kind
of budget or target, you can map that.
So I have leads, I have sales.
(20:56):
Then I have, uh, producedrevenue and that's the flow
moving through the factory.
And you can, you can look at thatboth in terms of the revenue flowing
through, but also the gross profitoff of those projects coming through.
Both very, very important.
So how you're, the speed at whichyou're moving through the factory is
(21:19):
important and the volume is important.
And then of course, youhave your overhead expense.
One, and, and tracking that.
I mean, that, that, that, that'scertainly an important one to track.
But I think if you startwith those key metrics.
Then you can go deeper, just likewith your car, you know, you'll
(21:40):
eventually watch the tachometer morebecause that gives you more about
the efficiency of what you're doing.
And there's a lot of othermetrics that you can get into that
are focused on the efficiency.
But at a minimum, you gotta focus onthose five metrics that I outlined.
And you know, and then find the rightway to communicate it with your team.
(22:03):
You know, what's the right cadencethat you look at it, for example, leads
you probably want to track, you know,roughly every week, every two weeks.
That's a good cycle for the leadflow where sales in might be, you
know, every month or two monthsthat you wanna do that overhead.
Might be more a quarterly kind oflook at those, just like when it
(22:26):
comes to the dashboard on your car.
Eric (22:29):
Absolutely.
You know, you, you, you alluded to alittle bit if you have an annual plan,
annual budget there, I mean, like howoften do you find that you know, that,
that people aren't building that annualplan and then using that to set their
quarterly and their monthly goals?
Like, I just, I think it's such animportant thing actually, if put
together a financial playbook thatwe're, uh, we're, we're about to start
(22:50):
distributing, you know, just to helppeople, to give people, Hey, here's.
Here's what a financial model looks like.
You know, kind of helping themunderstand like, you're gonna
make a bunch of assumptions.
They're probably all gonnabe wrong, but that's okay.
We gotta start somewhere.
Let's get that, you know,what is our goal for the year?
And then back into creating those,those quarterly, monthly goals.
But like, I find so many people,they don't, you know, they, they
(23:10):
don't, they don't take the time todo that just because, you know, maybe
one they've never thought about.
Doing that.
They don't know what they don'tknow, you know, or two, it's
just, ah, I don't need that.
I'm not big enough yet.
Things like that, like, you know.
How often do you see that and how,you know, how, what kind of an impact
do you think creating an annual plan,you know, can help a company with?
Mark Richardson (23:28):
Yeah, I think one of the differences, Eric, between a smaller.
Less sophisticated, and I don'tmean that in a disparaging way, but
less sophisticated company versus alarger, more sophisticated company
is in fact this issue of plan.
You know, we've all heardthe little adage, you know,
(23:49):
fail to plan, plan to fail.
Well, that is the case.
I will say most companies I workwith do put together a plan.
However, one difference betweenthe most successful and the least
successful are the ones that.
Put the time and energy ina plan, put it on the shelf,
(24:11):
and it collects a lot of dust.
They, they memorialize the plan, butthey don't necessarily follow the plan.
They don't monitor the plan.
They don't make the plan.
An integral part of, toyour point, a playbook.
And I think if leveraging relationshipslike yours can give them simple
(24:31):
ways, not only to create it, but.
Keep in touch with it and makeit an integral part of their day
and their week and their month.
I think that's fantastic.
Eric (24:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and you know, we're kind of.
Even going back to those,those, those key metrics.
I mean, like, you know, one of thefeatures that we just released in
the last, last, like month or two islike our, our, the ability to create
all these custom dashboards where youcan put those KPIs front and center.
You know, we've, you know, if you, if youwere to come to our office, like we have
dashboards all over the walls, like I'ma big proponent of like, you know, what
(25:05):
are those key drivers of the business?
How do they relate?
To, you know, your goals and then, youknow, as, as transparent as you're willing
and, and able to be, you know, just makingthat available to everyone because I think
it is such a key, you know, way to geteverybody on the same p page, everybody
like rowing in the same direction,knowing are we hitting our goals?
(25:25):
You know, if, if not, where,where are we underperforming?
What do we need to do as a teamto rally together to make sure
that we do hit those goals?
And, you know, I think that's, that it's,it's, you're so right that like they.
A lot of times people fail totake the time to, to do that.
Like, you know, actual versusbudget, how did we perform?
You know, whether it's on a monthly basis,a quarterly basis, you know, for the year.
(25:47):
Looking back, what do we need tochange looking forward, like, you know,
it's same thing with a job, right?
When you close out a job, you know,you need to take that time to do the
closeout and make sure you know that youunderstand, you know, where did you miss?
Like what went wrong?
Let's not keep making the samemistakes over and over and over again.
It's that, you know, dedicatingthat little bit of time to, you
know, analyzing your performance.
(26:08):
I mean, that is the difference betweencontinuing to do the same thing over
and over versus, you know, one ofthose, you know, be being a leader.
You know, you're continuallylooking to, how can we do better?
How can we improve, how can we grow?
Like, I think that's, that'sa big difference, is just
taking that time to, to review.
Mark Richardson (26:23):
Yeah, and there's so many things too, Eric, in life
that relate that we all, at least.
Are aware of like New Year's resolutions.
I mean, what's a New Year's resolution?
A New Year's resolution is a goal, right?
Yep.
And you know, so many people make'em, but 92% of the time New Year's
resolutions, resolutions fail.
(26:43):
Well, why is that?
Because not only did they not have aplan, but more importantly, to your
point, they didn't have a dashboard.
They didn't have a way to monitor it.
Yeah.
They didn't have a wayto keep it top of mind.
If you wanna lose weight, for example, youestablish a goal, you establish a plan.
But most importantly, once or twicea week, get on the scale so at
(27:07):
least you see whether you're aheador behind or at where you wanna be.
You know, you don't have to overlycomplicate it, it's not that complicated.
But you do have to be, you know,focused and, and really disciplined
if you want to see success.
Eric (27:23):
Yeah.
So I wanna transition to your, you know,your, your, your third point or earlier
was, you know, about building a team.
And, you know, a lot of times, again,especially early on entrepreneurs,
you know, we, we all put on everyhat and we try to do everything
ourselves and we think we cando it better than everyone else.
And like learning to, to, to builda team, you know, that, that, that
(27:44):
can be a big struggle sometimes.
And, and knowing.
When you know is the right timeto hire someone and what is that,
you know, that role gonna be?
And as you keep building that team,like making sure you're bringing
the right people into the rightroles at the right time is, you
know, is, is very challenging.
You know, so how do you, youknow, typically think about
building out a team, you know,and then kind of separately like.
(28:05):
A lot of people, you know, I, I see agood mix of people using subcontractors.
I see a good mix of people using,you know, hiring internal, you know,
carpenters and, and field people,you know, that are on payroll.
Like, how do you takethat into account as well?
'cause there's, you know, there'sobviously pros and cons to both, but
you know what, what's kind of yourgeneral sort of thought there on, on team
building and, and how to structure it?
Mark Richardson (28:25):
Yeah, so the really two different topics.
One is how do you build a team for growth?
And secondly is thisself-performing versus subs.
I will say self reforming versus subs.
That's an easier one forme to answer quickly.
Uh, it, there's not a right and wrong thathas to do with, again, how did you evolve?
(28:45):
You know, do you have key players?
Is your process system moreself-performing or more subbing?
Where most people are that are a littlebit better, operators are kind of a
hybrid of both of those things today,not just heavily one or the other.
And I can talk about pros and cons ofeach, but there, there is a mix out there.
(29:06):
But when it comes to building a team,you know, when you think about a
company let's, let's say a $1 millioncompany and those that fall into
that category, quite frankly, uh,it's a wonderful thing, but it's.
Quite frankly, a littlebit more of a practice.
You know, everything'sdependent on you as an owner.
You're probably gettinginvolved with sales production.
(29:28):
You probably, you know, do a lotof the bookkeeping, administrative
stuff yourself, but for the mostpart, it's dependent on you.
So if you want to grow that to 2 million,you've gotta think about, okay, how do
I get a partner and alliance within thebusiness that can shed off the things
that I don't really love to do the most?
So you start to, maybe you're,you're heavily sales oriented.
(29:51):
You bring on a project manager,and now between the two of
you and then back filling in.
Then you start to see these differentplaces that you get to, you know, going
from two or 3 million, up to 5 million,5 million to 10, 10 million and so on.
And most companies wanna grow.
I mean, I think that's a naturalthing I. And, and because of it,
(30:15):
what you need to do is look at what'sthe infrastructure, what is that,
what does that leadership team looklike at these different altitudes?
So, uh, what, what I usually encourageif I'm working with a company that's two,
three, 4 million, that kind of thing.
I kind of take a look at theingredients of what they have.
(30:36):
We look at it kind of chess moves, what'sthe next chess move that they're making?
And that's filling the seat.
So ultimately the goal, especially ifyou want to grow to 7, 8, 9, 10 million,
is to have kind of a leadership team.
It's like the knights aroundthe, in the, the round table.
Each one of those have a seat.
(30:57):
There's a marketing seat, there's a salesseat, there's a financial seat, there's a
production seat, there's a admin, HR seat.
There's all these seats around thetable, and then you look at where you
are and how, who does those things?
Because regardless of the sizeof the business, the activities
have to be done by someone.
(31:19):
As a business grows, you need to have aperson that is dedicated to those things
that, quite frankly, to your earlierpoint, Eric is better than you added.
You know, if, for example, you want,for example, and you get a little
bit bigger, you want a technologyseat, you don't wanna also be
that if you're a bigger company.
(31:41):
So you may bring in a, you know, adirector of technology or something is
one of those roles, and I know what I'msaying is a little bit overwhelming for
some that are back at that, you know, atthat simple blocking and tackling and not
into the, the, the, the, the higher scale.
It's a question of whenthat companies get there.
(32:02):
It's not a question of of of weather.
And if you wanna stall out at two or3 million and have a little practice,
there's nothing wrong with that.
Uh, you can do it efficiently and you cancertainly create a lot of joy in clients'
lives, but you're not really growing,uh, a substantial business at that point.
Eric (32:23):
Yeah.
No, I think it's a, it, it's an important,important point to note that like, you
know, you can't have this, you know.
Huge leadership team and be ableto, you know, you can't operate
like a, a $10 million companywhen you're a $2 million company.
You gotta take it, youknow, piece by piece.
Exactly.
So just like you said, I think reallylike figuring out, like, you know,
okay, if I want to grow from one totwo, you know, what are the things,
(32:45):
you know, what are, what are the, theresponsibilities that I can shed off?
And, and, and bring in somebody.
To make sure that they are betterat, that they're focused on it
and it's a full functional role.
It's not just, you know, sitting on melike starting to kind of take those one,
you know, functional role at a time.
You know, I think is agood way to think about it.
And you gotta, again, like this iswhere I think that annual plan and
having that annual budget can helpyou, you know, use your data, use
(33:09):
your, you know, your, your, your cashflow to understand can we afford.
To do that, and if not, what do we needto do to get to the point where we can
afford to keep building out that teamand bringing on more and more people?
And it's like just kind of this, thisexercise that you go through that will
help you kind of build towards, youknow, that, that, that much larger
team so that you can build the biggerbusiness that you ultimately want.
Mark Richardson (33:30):
Yeah, I think your annual plan is certainly critical,
but you also, uh, you know, you need.
Coach.
Coach, okay.
You need someone that'sgonna be your tour guide.
Eric (33:44):
Yeah.
Mark Richardson (33:45):
Uh, and it could be an alliance, could
be your, your, your spouse.
I don't really care who it is,but every business, every business
owner kind of needs a coach.
It's kind of like in sports.
If, if, if, if you follow professionaltennis, you know, and you're watching,
for example, on the television andthey, that the, the camera goes into
(34:08):
the stands, you know, that tennisplayer, that professional tennis player,
you know, has a skills coach, has a,uh, a fitness coach, has a strategy
coach, you know, has multiple co.
Who are your coaches?
Who are your coaches?
And if you don't have 'em, then you needto start to surround yourself a little
(34:32):
bit, just like a pro tennis player or aor a a football player, anything else?
Surround yourself with thatright, uh, exposure or that, that
right, that right level of advice.
Uh, yeah, there's gonna be alittle bit of investment to it,
just like a pro tennis player.
Every one of those players, uh,coaches involve in investment, but
(34:54):
they're essential to operate andgrow at the right level you want.
And if you don't have that.
You ought to at least scratch your set.
How, how do I put my toe in the waterand start to, to get some of that?
Certainly learning, having the planreading, listen to podcasts like this.
They're all good things, but quitefrankly, they're not the doctor that's
(35:18):
looking at the patient with you.
Uh, you know, it's all about,you know, knowledge and learning.
Eric (35:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I, I can tell you, youknow, I, I see firsthand the impact
when, when a, when an organizationbrings on a coach, you know, it's, it's,
it's literally like, you know, maybe amonth, two months after that, like, you
just start to see them really pull up.
And it's, and it's because like, again,you, you don't know what you don't know.
And, and you may be able to, to, to dothe blocking, the tackling, the executing,
(35:48):
but like, are you doing the right things?
And I think that's where, you know,somebody who has, who has been in
your shoes, who understands whatyou're going through, they've seen,
you know, countless others, youknow, started that same position and
then grow to where you want to go.
Like it, it just makes a huge impact.
I mean, I'm, I'm a huge advocate, youknow, for bringing on a, a, you know,
a, a, a coach, you know, joining somesort of a group where like you can, you
(36:11):
know, surround yourself with others who.
Understand, you know, the road aheadof you, and they can help give you
that guiding light so that you'renot having to make every single
mistake and learn the hard way.
Every single thing.
I mean, that just prolongs theentire, you know, journey of
getting to where you want to go
Mark Richardson (36:26):
a hundred percent.
Eric (36:29):
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm, I'm curious, uh, markhere, you know, what are you seeing,
you know, out in the market today?
You know, what kind of, what, what doyou think, you know, what's the sentiment
from, from re remodelers when, youknow, they're, they're, they're, they're
faced with, you know, trying to get moreleads, trying to grow the customer base.
Like, you know, what's, what'sthe general sentiment out
there with the economy today?
Mark Richardson (36:50):
So, I mean, the many pundits can answer that in,
in just, quite frankly, uh, uh.
30 seconds.
I, I don't think that'suseful or very fair.
So I'm gonna take a moment or try toexpand it and unpack it a little bit, you
know, for the last five years in COVID.
(37:10):
Kind of turned thingsupside down and backwards.
And you know, I, I rememberright in April I was doing a
talk with, you know, a particulargroup right after COVID started.
And I said, you know, based on thingsI'm seeing, 25% of the remodelers are
gonna be out of business by the end ofthis year based on the impacts of COVID.
Well, three months later.
(37:33):
I was talking to a group, samegroup, matter of fact, and they said,
mark, you said 25% were gonna be outof business in, and by the end of
the year, what are you seeing now?
And I said, well, what I'm seeingnow is 0% are gonna be outta business
based on the frenzy and how the,the home and home remodeling has
become kind of the silver lining.
(37:55):
So we went through this.
Kind of period of time where quitefrankly, you know, there was such
a volume of business focused onthe home in, in the, you know, two,
2000, uh, 2021 and 2022, you know,then we hit some supply chain.
Certainly challenges out there.
So we had, you know, these tailwindsof the consumer pushing you through.
(38:19):
But some headwinds on the supplychain, you know, homeowners.
Then got kind of releaseda, a good friend of mine.
Uh, from, uh, engage, uh, company andshe said, you know, homeowners have
become in 20 23, 24 have become feral.
You know, they got out there, theyescaped from captivity, and now it became
(38:43):
your job was to be much better at clin.
Kind of handling theferal cat, so to speak.
You know, it wasn't this niceclin, nice house pet anymore.
It was a little different.
So your skills had tostart to evolve, you know?
And as we move forward.
We didn't have so much challenge withsupply chain, however, those tailwinds
(39:05):
were also going away because now asGoogle highlighted, you know, uh, in,
in a, in a conference I was leading isthat your competition was everything.
You know, it was not only the kids'soccer and the going out to dinner again.
It was also going to TaylorSwift's concerts in Europe.
(39:26):
You know, you're competingagainst their time and, and so
many different things out there.
So as you move forward, there's justso many factors that come into play.
My theme for 20 24, 24was a year of uncertainty.
It turned out to be, that wasan accurate theme for the year.
(39:47):
But uncertainty is not good or bad.
It's just uncertain.
You know, it's sunny today, great.
If it's rainy today, maybethat's great too, if you need.
So uncertainty is not goodor bad, it's just uncertain.
You just don't know.
So you have to be careful to predicttoo far ahead in uncertain times.
I'm a big believer, as JimCollins said, you know the two
(40:10):
most important times you wanna.
Plan and predict for one is 10 yearsout and the other is 90 days out.
You know, I think we're in that.
You gotta know the vision of whereyou're heading, but you also have
to know the shorter term as well.
So I still believe we are inthat uncertainty in large part
(40:32):
because of what's happeningglobally and, and, and nationally.
However, what I'm seeingout there is probably.
I don't know, maybe it's 70, 80% ofthe folks I interact with are actually
having a good to very good year.
You know, the phone is very light, butthey're converting it a little bit higher.
(40:56):
Three things that you needto be focused on right now.
More than anything I.
One is make sure the phone is ringing.
You gotta focus on the marketing.
It's gotta be a real priority.
Second is your sales skillsthat acts needs to be sharp.
I. Abraham Lincoln said, if I have sixhours to cut down a tree, four of those
(41:19):
hours are gonna be sharpening the ax.
You have gotta be sharpening theax, and quite frankly, I see this
with so many when it comes tosales training and sharpening.
The ax are just not doing enough,so their conversion rates may be
going down as opposed to they couldbe going up because all you need
to do is get in lighter lead times.
(41:40):
One more out of 10.
Go back to your conversions andmetrics and you'll counter bound.
And the last thing which ties intoyour technologies and your production
is you gotta be operationally strong.
You know, you gotta have youract together operationally.
So those three things, I thinkare what is required to kind
(42:02):
of attack this environment.
And this environment's tough.
It's tough, but it's not bad.
It's just tough.
Eric (42:10):
Yeah, no, that's, uh, great.
You know, focus on marketing,making sure the phone's ringing.
You know, make sure you've got your, yoursales skills dialed in, sharpen that ax,
you know, you gotta be good at closing.
Need to be professional, showingup, winning the jobs, and then being
efficient and having your operations,your systems, processes all buttoned up.
I mean, you, you nailed it right there.
(42:30):
I mean, that's, uh,that's such great advice.
Like I, I think everybody.
You know, regardless of yoursize, you know, those are, those
are three very important thingsthat you have to focus on.
And again, even if, even if you're,you know, already doing 10 million,
like you, you can't keep expectingto be able to do the same thing
and have the same result when.
Everything around you is continuallychanging and adopting and, and, and
(42:54):
adapting and growing and like, youknow, that, that, that's, it's just
so important that people take thetime to be able to look back on how
have they performed and what couldthey do differently to keep growing
and keep accelerating the business.
'cause there, you know,it's just complacency.
There's, there's no place for complacencyand just accepting status quo.
And as the things around you change,like you gotta keep, keep growing, keep,
(43:17):
keep, keep adopting, you know, to, to.
To, to keep up with the times.
I mean, I, I think youreally nailed it there, mark.
Thanks.
Mark Richardson (43:24):
Well, that's one of the benefits of, uh, uh, uh, I, I, I
get a chance to think about things andadvise people, not do the hard work that
your, uh, listeners are doing every day.
And, uh, I think when you havea little bit more time to.
Think about your business,not just do your business.
My, my, uh, remodeling Masterypodcast is designed around that
(43:46):
is how do you think about it?
How do you reflect on yourbusiness, not just do it?
And I think, you know, Ifortunately have the benefit of,
uh, uh, talking a lot of people.
We're going a lot of people, andhelping them to think through the best
methods of how to approach things.
Eric (44:02):
Yeah.
Can you, uh, just kind of as, as, as we'recoming here to a close, can you share
a little bit more about, you know, you,you've got what you call success habits,
and so what, what are these successhabits and, and what habits do you see
the most successful remodelers embracing?
Mark Richardson (44:17):
Yeah.
Uh, one of the things that, uh, andsome of these things, quite frankly,
most things in, in, in success, Iwill say, are, are, uh, uh, much
more about habits and, and, andrepetition of doing them than they
are of intelligence or, uh, muscleor, you know, or, or, or gene genetic.
(44:39):
I mean, I, I definitelythink success habits.
A couple of success habitsI think I would encourage.
Um, one is, uh, you becomemore masterful of time.
I mean, time is like theequalizer for everybody.
Uh, one of my books is The Art ofTime Mastery, but there's so many.
(45:01):
Things that have been written about time.
Thought about time.
So one habit that I created, you know,30, 40 years ago with myself and evolved
and ultimately have taught thousandson, is you've got to plan your day.
So Norman Vincent said, vealsaid, plan your day today,
(45:22):
every day, then work your plan.
He didn't say, make a to-dolist and go dive out and do it.
No, he said, make a plan.
So my planning processis, it's just a habit.
Anybody, and you can use many processes.
I spend about 30 to 45minutes planning the day.
(45:42):
So that would be one habit.
If you can get to the point where youcan't get through your day without
you feeling like I'm missing somethingwithout that plan, then that's
certainly 1, 1, 1 of the habits Ithink you need to, uh, uh, focus on.
You know, the second I, I think is.
Uh, you know, you brought up before andthat is becoming, making, being, knowing
(46:09):
your numbers and be numbers driven, evenif that's not your thing, you know, if
it's not your thing, just simplify it.
Just like I used the example of thedashboard on your car, you know, be, make.
Part of your day spending timereally focused on the key metrics
and spending time might be fiveminutes or it might be an hour.
(46:33):
But if you can make that a habit withinyour day to be more metric driven or
driven by facts and figures and not theemotions and the feelings of the day.
And the third I would say that I wouldtry to really do, you know, is, is, is be.
This is a business that growsbased on people, based on the
(46:56):
people side of the equation.
So as much as you wanna fall in lovewith your plans and your schemes
and your strategies and all that,don't forget about the people.
Don't forget about giving a few hugs.
You know, be kind, be empathetic tothe people in your business because
the more that you can do that,I think that's what will really
(47:17):
help you build a greater success.
Eric (47:21):
Love it.
That's, uh, all, all, all great advice.
Again, you know, mark, I, Ireally appreciate you coming on.
Uh, just where, where, if peoplewanted to keep following along with
everything you're doing, where,where's a good place for them to go?
Is it, is it your podcast, the books?
What do you recommend?
Mark Richardson (47:36):
Yeah, I would encourage if it, you know, my podcast,
I have two hundred and sixty twohundred seventy episodes on Remodeling
Mastery, uh, with Mark Richardson.
Just wherever you can findpodcasts, it doesn't cost anything.
Uh, second is you, you, you could alwaysgo to Amazon and get any of my books.
(47:56):
I wrote a book on how fit is yourbusiness, which is kind of a fitness
checkup of your business, gives youa place to start, uh, fit to Grow
is about growing your business.
And the art of Time mastery of, asI've mentioned, is certainly, uh,
you can always reach out to me,certainly, uh, either through Eric.
(48:16):
Or, uh, just, you know, throughLinkedIn and, and I, I, I kind of
respond pretty regularly to that,those kind of things as well.
Eric (48:25):
Awesome.
Well, look, mark, I, I really appreciateyou coming on sharing this insight.
You know, obviously you, you've got atremendous amount of experience and,
and have worked with countless otherbusinesses to, to come to, you know,
this, this culmination of all thisgreat insight that I really believe
if people can, can take away just acouple nuggets, get it implemented.
Into their business,into their daily lives.
(48:45):
It's gonna help them tohave a lot more success.
So, you know, thank you for everythingthat you've done for the remodeling
industry and for contractors to helpserve as that guiding light to help
them be able to achieve their potential.
You know, I think it's just, it's, it'sso important that we have people like
you that, that are willing to take thetime to help others and to give back.
That's how we can elevatethe industry as a whole.
(49:06):
So just wanna say thank you'cause I know often my pleasure.
Thank you, Eric, for all that you
Mark Richardson (49:11):
do.
Eric (49:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well have a great one, mark.
Thank you, you too.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe to the showand leave us a review and as always.
If you or someone you knowhas a story to share, please
(49:33):
contact us@builderstories.com.
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.
Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back everybody.
Today I'm here with a special guest.
(00:22):
I've got Mark Richardson, who isthe former president and co-chairman
of Case Design Remodeling.
He's also written several books, youknow, done lots of educational, you
know, speaking authors, advising, justreally very well known, you know, very
involved person that has, has been veryactive in the remodeling community.
So, really excited to have you on today.
Welcome to the show, mark.
(00:43):
Thank you, Eric.
I'm happy to be here.
Yeah.
So why don't you give us, giveus a little bit of background.
You know, obviously I think you coulddo a little bit better job than I did,
but kind of tell us, tell us your story.
How, how did you kind of get,get to where you are today?
Excellent.
Yeah, so my,
Mark Richardson (00:57):
my roots are actually in architecture.
I, you know, in, uh, architectureschool, my thesis in the seventies and.
Probably long before manyof your listeners were even
born, uh, was design build.
And I would arm wrestle with my professorsthat if you could hook design and
(01:20):
construction together, uh, especially ata residential level, you could not only
have some, you know, amazing projects,but also pretty cool client experience.
And when I got outta school, I actuallystarted a little design build company.
Uh, with one of my thesis advisors.
We would go out and meet with prospects.
(01:42):
We'd develop the concepts, put togetherthe proposals, and then we would strap
on our tools and build it ourselves.
So it was the ultimate designbuild process and experience.
He decided to go back to teach, and thenI joined a fellow by the name of Fred
Case, who had a very small constructioncompany in the Washington DC area.
(02:05):
And I was kind of, the design element kindof bolted onto his little construction
company and we grew the company by about.
2000% over the course of six, seven years.
And, uh, uh, in large part based on kindof pioneering this theme of design build.
(02:26):
So we grew the design build business,uh, to a pretty substantial point.
Hit the nineties and got a littlebit shaky in terms of the market.
And then we launched a small projectsdivision called Case Handyman.
Many heard of that before.
And that's what we started.
That very quickly grew, uh, withinour business to be about half of
(02:49):
the revenue, but more importantly,about 10 times the number of clients.
So we really realized, wow, nowwe've got a pretty great client base.
What do we do with it?
We launched a. At thevision, a kitchen of vision.
And then 1998, we launched a,uh, a national franchise that
(03:10):
we grew the business in, in,in all the different areas.
So, uh, we, you know, when I steppeddown and passed the Bata and, uh, as,
as as president and became chairmanof the company, uh, we were just shy
of about a hundred million in revenue.
Uh, then for a few years aschairman, we, I kind of get started
(03:32):
to get more involved in otherthings within the industry itself.
Written several books, uh, as wellas got out and, and helped some of
the manufacturers and, you know,get out there and kind of educate
the industry in terms of things.
And then.
Since then, I've been just workingwith individual remodeling companies
(03:53):
as well as, uh, you know, myinvolvement with Harvard University's,
uh, remodeling futures program.
Um, and then, you know, being onsome, a few boards of companies.
Eric (04:04):
Yeah.
That's great.
Well, you know, again, very,uh, very decorated, you know,
career and obviously made a, madea huge impact on the industry.
I mean, you know, again,you're, you're, you're.
You know, regarded as, you know,helping pioneer the, the standards
for professionalism in the, theresidential remodeling industry.
I was, I was wondering if there's, uh,you know, maybe kind of a couple, you
know, these, these standards that, that,that you would want to maybe highlight
(04:25):
here that you think are just reallyimportant that, you know, any remodeler,
you know, is adhering to, to make surethat they're, you know, that they're,
they're living up to, to the industries.
Set standards there?
Mark Richardson (04:36):
Well, I think, you know, if with any remodeler that's
out there, especially early on in, youknow, in the process, I, I think that
you, you have to realize that, youknow, remodeling businesses, uh, are a
product for the most part, even the bestof the best of evolution, not desire.
(04:58):
I I say that in that, you know,unlike, uh, being an accountant or
a doctor or a, an attorney who goesthrough extensive education and then
gets into that, their business modelsare a product of design where most
small remodelers, you know, they.
(05:19):
Have some sawdust in their blood.
They have some passion tohave their own business.
They, uh, have a real interestin, you know, design or something.
And, you know, they put their fingers outand they start to do a few projects and,
and do something for their neighbors.
And before you know it, the quicksandgets up to their waist and they look at
(05:44):
their spouse and say, oh my goodness,I'm in the remodeling business, aren't I?
And then they start to evolve.
They start to fix, tweak, adjust,add different technologies
into what they're doing.
And I, I, I share that as a verynormal path for a simple reason in
that, you know, of 10 remodelingcompanies out there, there's nine
(06:06):
different ways that they do things.
So as much as you wanna say, okay,let me emulate, you know, McDonald's
in terms of how to do my hamburgers,or let me do it this way, you know,
you're starting from the, thisdialect that you created yourself.
So I think the more that you can startto think about how do I become better?
(06:29):
Not necessarily how do Ibecome different, or like you.
I think if you think of it that way, it'smuch more understanding business, looking
at the key business elements that, andthen focus on how do you get your stock to
rise in each one of those points and thenthat creates a good foundation for growth.
Eric (06:53):
Yeah, that, that makes total sense.
I mean, how do, do you see, likewhen you've, you know, again,
you've, you've looked at all sizesand scales of, of companies here.
I mean, like, do you see any commonpitfalls that you know, somebody
early on, you know, is, is skippingover or, or thinking that, you know,
you know, I don't, I don't, maybethey're neglecting it, you know, like
the, the sales side, the marketingside, like the business side.
(07:14):
Like, you know, so many people, they,they, they grow up with the tool
belt on and then they start to kindof get into the business side and.
You said it's so important that theyunderstand the business and those key
elements, like are there any, any areasin particular that, that you see people
kind of really sort of faltering on?
Mark Richardson (07:29):
Yeah, I do.
Uh, I think a lot of timesthere's a lot of misconceptions.
Quite frankly and false positives.
You know, when you're first startingyour business in the first, I would
say 2, 3, 4 years of your business,and I know this is easy for me to say
'cause I'm not having to pay your bills.
(07:51):
However, your real focus should bebuilding client base, not projects.
I know that sounds a littlebit like a wordsmithing.
Of course I'm in the project buildingbusiness, but if you can build this
amazing client base, imagine andfantasize that you have a hundred
raving fans as clients, uh, whatyou can do with that client base.
(08:17):
So one strong recommendation,focus on building your client base
more than just building projects.
Number two might beunderstand your sweet spot.
In life.
If we love something, we're probablygonna do it particularly well.
Well within business and withinparticular romanic business.
(08:40):
That's also true.
There's some people that just absolutelylove the smaller quick turn type
projects, and there are others that likethe longer planned type projects will
understand that they're different sizes.
There's different processes,there's different technologies
that are involved in these.
(09:01):
So know what you love to do inyour sweet spot of how you want
to develop and grow the business.
Um, and then last but certainly notleast, is really focus on building a team.
Growth is gonna become a productof the team, not just how many
additional pounds you can lift.
(09:23):
And if you can focus on building thatteam and whoever you're hiring, always
think about not just what that person'sgonna do for you now, how could they
evolve in your business in the future?
Eric (09:37):
Yeah, that's, uh, great, great advice.
I kind of wanna dive into toeach of those a little bit more.
So when, when you talk about.
Focus on building your client base.
Is that.
Is that like really starting to learn?
Who is your ideal, you know,customer look like, what, what, you
know, the characteristics, theirincome, their, their location.
Is that kind of what you're, whatyou're, you know, leading to here?
(09:57):
Well, I think
Mark Richardson (09:57):
that's part of it, Eric.
I, I think that yes, you, you,you do wanna understand and
have enough sophistication.
You can do some profiling in termsof demographics of your client and
certainly at the type of projectsfor them and, and all of that.
However, quite frankly.
What you really want more thanever is just to get out there and
(10:21):
help people of what you love todo and they will become a client.
One mysterious thing is you neverknow what that client is gonna give
you in terms of returns, meaningthey can be a maven for the company
or it may be a one and done.
So be careful not to judgethe book goodbye the cover.
(10:44):
Focus, at least from a metric pointof view on how do you build the
scale of the client base and thendon't become strangers with them.
We have a tendency, I think, sometimes tobecome strangers with our past clients.
So figuring out a way to keepin touch, figuring out a way to
communicate and, and, and, andreally hold onto that client base.
(11:07):
I think good, you know, isthe best advice I can give.
But yeah, to answer your question, yeah,understanding the demographics and a lot
of the data is great, but quite frankly.
Even if I have to get out there andjust do a lot of small projects to
build a client base that's gonna bebuilding your assets, that are gonna
(11:29):
give you good returns in the future.
Eric (11:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I hear a lot of times frompeople, they've, they've, they've really
found a lot of value in, in putting, youknow, focus on networking with, you know,
designers, architects, you know, realtorslike people who have this network and they
could, you know, just directly bring themclients, you know, and, and vice versa.
And so like, you know, maybe thatis also kind of going to, to, to, to
(11:53):
that point of like, you gotta focuson building a client base, you know,
because a lot of the remodels, Imean, you do, you get repeat business.
And so when you have that.
Built out.
That's a great way to just kindof, you know, check in every
once in a while, see if there'smore projects, things like that.
I think that's, it's, it's great advice.
Mark Richardson (12:08):
Yeah.
One way to quantify this, Eric, foryourself, uh, and I, I wrote a book on
the Art of Time Mastery, so I'm very uberfocused on the subject of time is well.
Is actually ask yourself, howmuch time am I actually putting
into building the client base?
(12:29):
How much time am I putting intomarketing related activities?
And for small remodelers.
Even medium sized remodelers whenthey're really honest with themselves.
You know, they might be onlyspending two, three hours a week
and it's just not enough time.
You know, two or three hoursa week is literally, you know,
(12:51):
less than 5% of their time.
It's put into the, probablythe most important thing.
So if you can figure out a way to say,okay, you know, I certainly have to keep
doing estimates and building projectsand managing and selling and doing all
the other things, but don't spend threehours a week, spend seven hours a week.
(13:11):
Sure.
How can I get it up to, you know,somewhere between five and 10% of my time?
And if in fact you can spend thatkind of amount of time on it, you're
gonna see much better returns.
Eric (13:24):
That's great.
And, and, and what would you sayfor people again, ear early on?
You know, I see a lot of people that,that kind of don't really know what
types of projects, you know, they, they,they want to, you know, focus in on.
And so they, they kind of just takeanything that, that comes their way.
And, you know, how do you kind of helppeople sort of realize where, you know,
they ought to sort of start kind ofniching down, you know, and, and is that.
(13:46):
You know, a recommendation.
I mean, obviously you brought up kind of,you know, is it a smaller, you know, quick
type project, you know, or do you like thelar the larger, more planned out projects,
but like, you know, do you recommendpeople kind of even start to look at,
you know, do you wanna do kitchens?
Do you wanna do bathrooms?
You know, do you wanna do additions?
Like how do you sort of helppeople kind like find their niche?
Mark Richardson (14:04):
Great.
Great question.
Finding your niche, you can either chooseyour path or you can throw out a net.
Allow enough different kinds ofprojects to come in, but then do
take inventory on a regular basis.
Which projects did yourteam like the best?
(14:24):
Which projects did youperform financially the best?
Which projects, you know, are youa sprinter in like the little ones
or are you a marathon runner inlike the longer planned project?
So I think when you throw everythingin a net together and do some analysis,
you're gonna realize that there arecertain projects when you look at
(14:44):
the financials as well as clientexperience and, and, and feedback.
There are certain types of projects thatare what I would consider your sweet spot.
And then start to, don't belimited, but start to design your
company around that sweet spot.
Let's say to your point, I'm reallyloving, I work with someone up in New
(15:05):
Jersey that loves doing bathrooms well.
He's always thinking, well,what about doing additions?
What about doing?
And I said, you know,his name is Sebastian.
I said, Sebastian, you'dlove doing bathrooms.
Let's just figure out a wayyou can do more bathrooms.
More bathrooms, you know,more effectively, and you're
gonna see a better return.
(15:26):
You're gonna grow the business ina really healthy way, so you've
gotta find that kind of thing.
One mistake, huge mistakethat remodelers make.
Small, medium, and even large ones.
I work with several companiesthat are over 50 million, and even
they make this mistake is what Icall chasing the shiny objects.
(15:48):
You know, they have a tendencyto wanna go out there and go
whale hunting all the time.
They think bigger is better, biggeris not better, better is better.
And the more that you understand what'sbetter and then really focus your
efforts going after that, you're gonnabe much happier and much more successful.
Eric (16:09):
Oh, that's great.
And, and it sounds like, you know, it's,it's, it's not just how you performed
financially on the project, but alsolooking at, you know, the, the, the,
the output, the client experience.
You know, there's other qualitative,you know, factors that come into play to
really trying to learn and identifyinglike, where is your sweet spot?
What do you wanna wakeup and do every day?
(16:30):
You know, go find more of those projects.
And I think a lot of the, the marketingand all of the, the, you know, the focus
that you put on getting yourself outthere, like when you can kind of reign
it into that specific thing that you wantto do, you know, that sort of just helps
kind of bring more of those projects in.
And then, you know, hopefully you don't.
End up taking on projects that aren't,you know, a great fit for you, where
again, you get yourself into hotwater and, you know, regret taking
(16:52):
the project on in the first place.
'cause it was outta your wheelhouse.
Mark Richardson (16:55):
Yeah.
After a period of time.
Eric, one key metric to keep aneye on when it comes to the right
size project to the right projectis the dollar amount of the sale.
You know, I really focus, I ask clientswho pro uh, uh, uh, remodels all the time.
What's your averageticket over the course?
(17:15):
The last year or two.
That metric really helps to understandif my average ticket, for example, is
$75,000 projects, then as you're thinkingabout it in a, and an opportunity comes
in, if it happens to be, you know, athree story edition on a house that
(17:37):
you know is not gonna be anywhere closeto that, it probably above 500,000.
Uh, you should scrutinize and really, uh.
Really be, be a little bit skeptical ofdiving into a project like that because
it's probably not your sweet spot.
Yeah.
And it probably not only youmight fumble bumble on it, you're
(17:58):
taking a lot more risk on it.
But again, with many remodelers,they think that's the holy grail.
If I could only do the $500,000 project,but when you really get a little bit more
gray hair like I have and you realize.
Gosh, I can do 10, 75,000 projectsfor every one 500,000 project,
(18:19):
and probably it may double theamount of gross profit on it.
Uh, I, I, I, and have a happierclient and happier team than maybe,
maybe that makes sense to do.
Eric (18:30):
Yeah.
No, that's, that's, that's great.
Great advice there.
I, I'm curious, you, you, youbrought up kind of key metrics,
you know, average ticket being one.
Are there, are there other key metricsthat you think a remodeling business
needs to be really, really dialed into?
Mark Richardson (18:45):
Yeah, great question and, and the way I look at key metrics,
Eric, is, and, and try to communicatethis, not to be clever, but to help
you understand if you think aboutthe key metrics in your business,
almost like the dashboard on your car.
You think about all those littleindicators on your car, and you
(19:05):
think about, okay, on your car, weknow very, very instinctively what
the three most important ones are.
It's your speedometer, it's your fuelgauge, and it's your temperature gauge.
We know those.
It's an integral part.
We don't need to, anytimeI ask an audience about it,
everybody gets those three right?
(19:26):
You also have with those three.
What's interesting is how you look atthose three is different from each other.
The speedometer, you might glance downat every three to five minutes I. The
fuel gauge, you might look at everyhalf hour or hour and the temperature
(19:46):
gauge may be once a day or something.
So how you look at med number one,knowing what the metrics are, but also
the cadence at which you look at themetrics, uh, really is quite important.
So going to your question, what doI think some of the key metrics are?
Number one is you, you,you have to focus on leads.
(20:12):
Uh, you know, what's that lead flow?
What's that fuel coming into the company?
I. And I think you need topay attention to those leads.
Now, there's a lot of sub data that comesout of that, leads that convert into
appointments, appointments into designcontracts and or into construction.
All those kind of thingsthat you've gotta match.
(20:34):
But at a high level, leads iscertainly one Second is sales.
I think initially, again, sales has subparts to it, but it's just what are my
sales per month, per quarter, and youknow, if you have an annualized kind
of budget or target, you can map that.
So I have leads, I have sales.
(20:56):
Then I have, uh, producedrevenue and that's the flow
moving through the factory.
And you can, you can look at thatboth in terms of the revenue flowing
through, but also the gross profitoff of those projects coming through.
Both very, very important.
So how you're, the speed at whichyou're moving through the factory is
(21:19):
important and the volume is important.
And then of course, youhave your overhead expense.
One, and, and tracking that.
I mean, that, that, that, that'scertainly an important one to track.
But I think if you startwith those key metrics.
Then you can go deeper, just likewith your car, you know, you'll
(21:40):
eventually watch the tachometer morebecause that gives you more about
the efficiency of what you're doing.
And there's a lot of othermetrics that you can get into that
are focused on the efficiency.
But at a minimum, you gotta focus onthose five metrics that I outlined.
And you know, and then find the rightway to communicate it with your team.
(22:03):
You know, what's the right cadencethat you look at it, for example, leads
you probably want to track, you know,roughly every week, every two weeks.
That's a good cycle for the leadflow where sales in might be, you
know, every month or two monthsthat you wanna do that overhead.
Might be more a quarterly kind oflook at those, just like when it
(22:26):
comes to the dashboard on your car.
Eric (22:29):
Absolutely.
You know, you, you, you alluded to alittle bit if you have an annual plan,
annual budget there, I mean, like howoften do you find that you know, that,
that people aren't building that annualplan and then using that to set their
quarterly and their monthly goals?
Like, I just, I think it's such animportant thing actually, if put
together a financial playbook thatwe're, uh, we're, we're about to start
(22:50):
distributing, you know, just to helppeople, to give people, Hey, here's.
Here's what a financial model looks like.
You know, kind of helping themunderstand like, you're gonna
make a bunch of assumptions.
They're probably all gonnabe wrong, but that's okay.
We gotta start somewhere.
Let's get that, you know,what is our goal for the year?
And then back into creating those,those quarterly, monthly goals.
But like, I find so many people,they don't, you know, they, they
(23:10):
don't, they don't take the time todo that just because, you know, maybe
one they've never thought about.
Doing that.
They don't know what they don'tknow, you know, or two, it's
just, ah, I don't need that.
I'm not big enough yet.
Things like that, like, you know.
How often do you see that and how,you know, how, what kind of an impact
do you think creating an annual plan,you know, can help a company with?
Mark Richardson (23:28):
Yeah, I think one of the differences, Eric, between a smaller.
Less sophisticated, and I don'tmean that in a disparaging way, but
less sophisticated company versus alarger, more sophisticated company
is in fact this issue of plan.
You know, we've all heardthe little adage, you know,
(23:49):
fail to plan, plan to fail.
Well, that is the case.
I will say most companies I workwith do put together a plan.
However, one difference betweenthe most successful and the least
successful are the ones that.
Put the time and energy ina plan, put it on the shelf,
(24:11):
and it collects a lot of dust.
They, they memorialize the plan, butthey don't necessarily follow the plan.
They don't monitor the plan.
They don't make the plan.
An integral part of, toyour point, a playbook.
And I think if leveraging relationshipslike yours can give them simple
(24:31):
ways, not only to create it, but.
Keep in touch with it and makeit an integral part of their day
and their week and their month.
I think that's fantastic.
Eric (24:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and you know, we're kind of.
Even going back to those,those, those key metrics.
I mean, like, you know, one of thefeatures that we just released in
the last, last, like month or two islike our, our, the ability to create
all these custom dashboards where youcan put those KPIs front and center.
You know, we've, you know, if you, if youwere to come to our office, like we have
dashboards all over the walls, like I'ma big proponent of like, you know, what
(25:05):
are those key drivers of the business?
How do they relate?
To, you know, your goals and then, youknow, as, as transparent as you're willing
and, and able to be, you know, just makingthat available to everyone because I think
it is such a key, you know, way to geteverybody on the same p page, everybody
like rowing in the same direction,knowing are we hitting our goals?
(25:25):
You know, if, if not, where,where are we underperforming?
What do we need to do as a teamto rally together to make sure
that we do hit those goals?
And, you know, I think that's, that it's,it's, you're so right that like they.
A lot of times people fail totake the time to, to do that.
Like, you know, actual versusbudget, how did we perform?
You know, whether it's on a monthly basis,a quarterly basis, you know, for the year.
(25:47):
Looking back, what do we need tochange looking forward, like, you know,
it's same thing with a job, right?
When you close out a job, you know,you need to take that time to do the
closeout and make sure you know that youunderstand, you know, where did you miss?
Like what went wrong?
Let's not keep making the samemistakes over and over and over again.
It's that, you know, dedicatingthat little bit of time to, you
know, analyzing your performance.
(26:08):
I mean, that is the difference betweencontinuing to do the same thing over
and over versus, you know, one ofthose, you know, be being a leader.
You know, you're continuallylooking to, how can we do better?
How can we improve, how can we grow?
Like, I think that's, that'sa big difference, is just
taking that time to, to review.
Mark Richardson (26:23):
Yeah, and there's so many things too, Eric, in life
that relate that we all, at least.
Are aware of like New Year's resolutions.
I mean, what's a New Year's resolution?
A New Year's resolution is a goal, right?
Yep.
And you know, so many people make'em, but 92% of the time New Year's
resolutions, resolutions fail.
(26:43):
Well, why is that?
Because not only did they not have aplan, but more importantly, to your
point, they didn't have a dashboard.
They didn't have a way to monitor it.
Yeah.
They didn't have a wayto keep it top of mind.
If you wanna lose weight, for example, youestablish a goal, you establish a plan.
But most importantly, once or twicea week, get on the scale so at
(27:07):
least you see whether you're aheador behind or at where you wanna be.
You know, you don't have to overlycomplicate it, it's not that complicated.
But you do have to be, you know,focused and, and really disciplined
if you want to see success.
Eric (27:23):
Yeah.
So I wanna transition to your, you know,your, your, your third point or earlier
was, you know, about building a team.
And, you know, a lot of times, again,especially early on entrepreneurs,
you know, we, we all put on everyhat and we try to do everything
ourselves and we think we cando it better than everyone else.
And like learning to, to, to builda team, you know, that, that, that
(27:44):
can be a big struggle sometimes.
And, and knowing.
When you know is the right timeto hire someone and what is that,
you know, that role gonna be?
And as you keep building that team,like making sure you're bringing
the right people into the rightroles at the right time is, you
know, is, is very challenging.
You know, so how do you, youknow, typically think about
building out a team, you know,and then kind of separately like.
(28:05):
A lot of people, you know, I, I see agood mix of people using subcontractors.
I see a good mix of people using,you know, hiring internal, you know,
carpenters and, and field people,you know, that are on payroll.
Like, how do you takethat into account as well?
'cause there's, you know, there'sobviously pros and cons to both, but
you know what, what's kind of yourgeneral sort of thought there on, on team
building and, and how to structure it?
Mark Richardson (28:25):
Yeah, so the really two different topics.
One is how do you build a team for growth?
And secondly is thisself-performing versus subs.
I will say self reforming versus subs.
That's an easier one forme to answer quickly.
Uh, it, there's not a right and wrong thathas to do with, again, how did you evolve?
(28:45):
You know, do you have key players?
Is your process system moreself-performing or more subbing?
Where most people are that are a littlebit better, operators are kind of a
hybrid of both of those things today,not just heavily one or the other.
And I can talk about pros and cons ofeach, but there, there is a mix out there.
(29:06):
But when it comes to building a team,you know, when you think about a
company let's, let's say a $1 millioncompany and those that fall into
that category, quite frankly, uh,it's a wonderful thing, but it's.
Quite frankly, a littlebit more of a practice.
You know, everything'sdependent on you as an owner.
You're probably gettinginvolved with sales production.
(29:28):
You probably, you know, do a lotof the bookkeeping, administrative
stuff yourself, but for the mostpart, it's dependent on you.
So if you want to grow that to 2 million,you've gotta think about, okay, how do
I get a partner and alliance within thebusiness that can shed off the things
that I don't really love to do the most?
So you start to, maybe you're,you're heavily sales oriented.
(29:51):
You bring on a project manager,and now between the two of
you and then back filling in.
Then you start to see these differentplaces that you get to, you know, going
from two or 3 million, up to 5 million,5 million to 10, 10 million and so on.
And most companies wanna grow.
I mean, I think that's a naturalthing I. And, and because of it,
(30:15):
what you need to do is look at what'sthe infrastructure, what is that,
what does that leadership team looklike at these different altitudes?
So, uh, what, what I usually encourageif I'm working with a company that's two,
three, 4 million, that kind of thing.
I kind of take a look at theingredients of what they have.
(30:36):
We look at it kind of chess moves, what'sthe next chess move that they're making?
And that's filling the seat.
So ultimately the goal, especially ifyou want to grow to 7, 8, 9, 10 million,
is to have kind of a leadership team.
It's like the knights aroundthe, in the, the round table.
Each one of those have a seat.
(30:57):
There's a marketing seat, there's a salesseat, there's a financial seat, there's a
production seat, there's a admin, HR seat.
There's all these seats around thetable, and then you look at where you
are and how, who does those things?
Because regardless of the sizeof the business, the activities
have to be done by someone.
(31:19):
As a business grows, you need to have aperson that is dedicated to those things
that, quite frankly, to your earlierpoint, Eric is better than you added.
You know, if, for example, you want,for example, and you get a little
bit bigger, you want a technologyseat, you don't wanna also be
that if you're a bigger company.
(31:41):
So you may bring in a, you know, adirector of technology or something is
one of those roles, and I know what I'msaying is a little bit overwhelming for
some that are back at that, you know, atthat simple blocking and tackling and not
into the, the, the, the, the higher scale.
It's a question of whenthat companies get there.
(32:02):
It's not a question of of of weather.
And if you wanna stall out at two or3 million and have a little practice,
there's nothing wrong with that.
Uh, you can do it efficiently and you cancertainly create a lot of joy in clients'
lives, but you're not really growing,uh, a substantial business at that point.
Eric (32:23):
Yeah.
No, I think it's a, it, it's an important,important point to note that like, you
know, you can't have this, you know.
Huge leadership team and be ableto, you know, you can't operate
like a, a $10 million companywhen you're a $2 million company.
You gotta take it, youknow, piece by piece.
Exactly.
So just like you said, I think reallylike figuring out, like, you know,
okay, if I want to grow from one totwo, you know, what are the things,
(32:45):
you know, what are, what are the, theresponsibilities that I can shed off?
And, and, and bring in somebody.
To make sure that they are betterat, that they're focused on it
and it's a full functional role.
It's not just, you know, sitting on melike starting to kind of take those one,
you know, functional role at a time.
You know, I think is agood way to think about it.
And you gotta, again, like this iswhere I think that annual plan and
having that annual budget can helpyou, you know, use your data, use
(33:09):
your, you know, your, your, your cashflow to understand can we afford.
To do that, and if not, what do we needto do to get to the point where we can
afford to keep building out that teamand bringing on more and more people?
And it's like just kind of this, thisexercise that you go through that will
help you kind of build towards, youknow, that, that, that much larger
team so that you can build the biggerbusiness that you ultimately want.
Mark Richardson (33:30):
Yeah, I think your annual plan is certainly critical,
but you also, uh, you know, you need.
Coach.
Coach, okay.
You need someone that'sgonna be your tour guide.
Eric (33:44):
Yeah.
Mark Richardson (33:45):
Uh, and it could be an alliance, could
be your, your, your spouse.
I don't really care who it is,but every business, every business
owner kind of needs a coach.
It's kind of like in sports.
If, if, if, if you follow professionaltennis, you know, and you're watching,
for example, on the television andthey, that the, the camera goes into
(34:08):
the stands, you know, that tennisplayer, that professional tennis player,
you know, has a skills coach, has a,uh, a fitness coach, has a strategy
coach, you know, has multiple co.
Who are your coaches?
Who are your coaches?
And if you don't have 'em, then you needto start to surround yourself a little
(34:32):
bit, just like a pro tennis player or aor a a football player, anything else?
Surround yourself with thatright, uh, exposure or that, that
right, that right level of advice.
Uh, yeah, there's gonna be alittle bit of investment to it,
just like a pro tennis player.
Every one of those players, uh,coaches involve in investment, but
(34:54):
they're essential to operate andgrow at the right level you want.
And if you don't have that.
You ought to at least scratch your set.
How, how do I put my toe in the waterand start to, to get some of that?
Certainly learning, having the planreading, listen to podcasts like this.
They're all good things, but quitefrankly, they're not the doctor that's
(35:18):
looking at the patient with you.
Uh, you know, it's all about,you know, knowledge and learning.
Eric (35:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I, I can tell you, youknow, I, I see firsthand the impact
when, when a, when an organizationbrings on a coach, you know, it's, it's,
it's literally like, you know, maybe amonth, two months after that, like, you
just start to see them really pull up.
And it's, and it's because like, again,you, you don't know what you don't know.
And, and you may be able to, to, to dothe blocking, the tackling, the executing,
(35:48):
but like, are you doing the right things?
And I think that's where, you know,somebody who has, who has been in
your shoes, who understands whatyou're going through, they've seen,
you know, countless others, youknow, started that same position and
then grow to where you want to go.
Like it, it just makes a huge impact.
I mean, I'm, I'm a huge advocate, youknow, for bringing on a, a, you know,
a, a, a coach, you know, joining somesort of a group where like you can, you
(36:11):
know, surround yourself with others who.
Understand, you know, the road aheadof you, and they can help give you
that guiding light so that you'renot having to make every single
mistake and learn the hard way.
Every single thing.
I mean, that just prolongs theentire, you know, journey of
getting to where you want to go
Mark Richardson (36:26):
a hundred percent.
Eric (36:29):
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm, I'm curious, uh, markhere, you know, what are you seeing,
you know, out in the market today?
You know, what kind of, what, what doyou think, you know, what's the sentiment
from, from re remodelers when, youknow, they're, they're, they're, they're
faced with, you know, trying to get moreleads, trying to grow the customer base.
Like, you know, what's, what'sthe general sentiment out
there with the economy today?
Mark Richardson (36:50):
So, I mean, the many pundits can answer that in,
in just, quite frankly, uh, uh.
30 seconds.
I, I don't think that'suseful or very fair.
So I'm gonna take a moment or try toexpand it and unpack it a little bit, you
know, for the last five years in COVID.
(37:10):
Kind of turned thingsupside down and backwards.
And you know, I, I rememberright in April I was doing a
talk with, you know, a particulargroup right after COVID started.
And I said, you know, based on thingsI'm seeing, 25% of the remodelers are
gonna be out of business by the end ofthis year based on the impacts of COVID.
Well, three months later.
(37:33):
I was talking to a group, samegroup, matter of fact, and they said,
mark, you said 25% were gonna be outof business in, and by the end of
the year, what are you seeing now?
And I said, well, what I'm seeingnow is 0% are gonna be outta business
based on the frenzy and how the,the home and home remodeling has
become kind of the silver lining.
(37:55):
So we went through this.
Kind of period of time where quitefrankly, you know, there was such
a volume of business focused onthe home in, in the, you know, two,
2000, uh, 2021 and 2022, you know,then we hit some supply chain.
Certainly challenges out there.
So we had, you know, these tailwindsof the consumer pushing you through.
(38:19):
But some headwinds on the supplychain, you know, homeowners.
Then got kind of releaseda, a good friend of mine.
Uh, from, uh, engage, uh, company andshe said, you know, homeowners have
become in 20 23, 24 have become feral.
You know, they got out there, theyescaped from captivity, and now it became
(38:43):
your job was to be much better at clin.
Kind of handling theferal cat, so to speak.
You know, it wasn't this niceclin, nice house pet anymore.
It was a little different.
So your skills had tostart to evolve, you know?
And as we move forward.
We didn't have so much challenge withsupply chain, however, those tailwinds
(39:05):
were also going away because now asGoogle highlighted, you know, uh, in,
in a, in a conference I was leading isthat your competition was everything.
You know, it was not only the kids'soccer and the going out to dinner again.
It was also going to TaylorSwift's concerts in Europe.
(39:26):
You know, you're competingagainst their time and, and so
many different things out there.
So as you move forward, there's justso many factors that come into play.
My theme for 20 24, 24was a year of uncertainty.
It turned out to be, that wasan accurate theme for the year.
(39:47):
But uncertainty is not good or bad.
It's just uncertain.
You know, it's sunny today, great.
If it's rainy today, maybethat's great too, if you need.
So uncertainty is not goodor bad, it's just uncertain.
You just don't know.
So you have to be careful to predicttoo far ahead in uncertain times.
I'm a big believer, as JimCollins said, you know the two
(40:10):
most important times you wanna.
Plan and predict for one is 10 yearsout and the other is 90 days out.
You know, I think we're in that.
You gotta know the vision of whereyou're heading, but you also have
to know the shorter term as well.
So I still believe we are inthat uncertainty in large part
(40:32):
because of what's happeningglobally and, and, and nationally.
However, what I'm seeingout there is probably.
I don't know, maybe it's 70, 80% ofthe folks I interact with are actually
having a good to very good year.
You know, the phone is very light, butthey're converting it a little bit higher.
(40:56):
Three things that you needto be focused on right now.
More than anything I.
One is make sure the phone is ringing.
You gotta focus on the marketing.
It's gotta be a real priority.
Second is your sales skillsthat acts needs to be sharp.
I. Abraham Lincoln said, if I have sixhours to cut down a tree, four of those
(41:19):
hours are gonna be sharpening the ax.
You have gotta be sharpening theax, and quite frankly, I see this
with so many when it comes tosales training and sharpening.
The ax are just not doing enough,so their conversion rates may be
going down as opposed to they couldbe going up because all you need
to do is get in lighter lead times.
(41:40):
One more out of 10.
Go back to your conversions andmetrics and you'll counter bound.
And the last thing which ties intoyour technologies and your production
is you gotta be operationally strong.
You know, you gotta have youract together operationally.
So those three things, I thinkare what is required to kind
(42:02):
of attack this environment.
And this environment's tough.
It's tough, but it's not bad.
It's just tough.
Eric (42:10):
Yeah, no, that's, uh, great.
You know, focus on marketing,making sure the phone's ringing.
You know, make sure you've got your, yoursales skills dialed in, sharpen that ax,
you know, you gotta be good at closing.
Need to be professional, showingup, winning the jobs, and then being
efficient and having your operations,your systems, processes all buttoned up.
I mean, you, you nailed it right there.
(42:30):
I mean, that's, uh,that's such great advice.
Like I, I think everybody.
You know, regardless of yoursize, you know, those are, those
are three very important thingsthat you have to focus on.
And again, even if, even if you're,you know, already doing 10 million,
like you, you can't keep expectingto be able to do the same thing
and have the same result when.
Everything around you is continuallychanging and adopting and, and, and
(42:54):
adapting and growing and like, youknow, that, that, that's, it's just
so important that people take thetime to be able to look back on how
have they performed and what couldthey do differently to keep growing
and keep accelerating the business.
'cause there, you know,it's just complacency.
There's, there's no place for complacencyand just accepting status quo.
And as the things around you change,like you gotta keep, keep growing, keep,
(43:17):
keep, keep adopting, you know, to, to.
To, to keep up with the times.
I mean, I, I think youreally nailed it there, mark.
Thanks.
Mark Richardson (43:24):
Well, that's one of the benefits of, uh, uh, uh, I, I, I
get a chance to think about things andadvise people, not do the hard work that
your, uh, listeners are doing every day.
And, uh, I think when you havea little bit more time to.
Think about your business,not just do your business.
My, my, uh, remodeling Masterypodcast is designed around that
(43:46):
is how do you think about it?
How do you reflect on yourbusiness, not just do it?
And I think, you know, Ifortunately have the benefit of,
uh, uh, talking a lot of people.
We're going a lot of people, andhelping them to think through the best
methods of how to approach things.
Eric (44:02):
Yeah.
Can you, uh, just kind of as, as, as we'recoming here to a close, can you share
a little bit more about, you know, you,you've got what you call success habits,
and so what, what are these successhabits and, and what habits do you see
the most successful remodelers embracing?
Mark Richardson (44:17):
Yeah.
Uh, one of the things that, uh, andsome of these things, quite frankly,
most things in, in, in success, Iwill say, are, are, uh, uh, much
more about habits and, and, andrepetition of doing them than they
are of intelligence or, uh, muscleor, you know, or, or, or gene genetic.
(44:39):
I mean, I, I definitelythink success habits.
A couple of success habitsI think I would encourage.
Um, one is, uh, you becomemore masterful of time.
I mean, time is like theequalizer for everybody.
Uh, one of my books is The Art ofTime Mastery, but there's so many.
(45:01):
Things that have been written about time.
Thought about time.
So one habit that I created, you know,30, 40 years ago with myself and evolved
and ultimately have taught thousandson, is you've got to plan your day.
So Norman Vincent said, vealsaid, plan your day today,
(45:22):
every day, then work your plan.
He didn't say, make a to-dolist and go dive out and do it.
No, he said, make a plan.
So my planning processis, it's just a habit.
Anybody, and you can use many processes.
I spend about 30 to 45minutes planning the day.
(45:42):
So that would be one habit.
If you can get to the point where youcan't get through your day without
you feeling like I'm missing somethingwithout that plan, then that's
certainly 1, 1, 1 of the habits Ithink you need to, uh, uh, focus on.
You know, the second I, I think is.
Uh, you know, you brought up before andthat is becoming, making, being, knowing
(46:09):
your numbers and be numbers driven, evenif that's not your thing, you know, if
it's not your thing, just simplify it.
Just like I used the example of thedashboard on your car, you know, be, make.
Part of your day spending timereally focused on the key metrics
and spending time might be fiveminutes or it might be an hour.
(46:33):
But if you can make that a habit withinyour day to be more metric driven or
driven by facts and figures and not theemotions and the feelings of the day.
And the third I would say that I wouldtry to really do, you know, is, is, is be.
This is a business that growsbased on people, based on the
(46:56):
people side of the equation.
So as much as you wanna fall in lovewith your plans and your schemes
and your strategies and all that,don't forget about the people.
Don't forget about giving a few hugs.
You know, be kind, be empathetic tothe people in your business because
the more that you can do that,I think that's what will really
(47:17):
help you build a greater success.
Eric (47:21):
Love it.
That's, uh, all, all, all great advice.
Again, you know, mark, I, Ireally appreciate you coming on.
Uh, just where, where, if peoplewanted to keep following along with
everything you're doing, where,where's a good place for them to go?
Is it, is it your podcast, the books?
What do you recommend?
Mark Richardson (47:36):
Yeah, I would encourage if it, you know, my podcast,
I have two hundred and sixty twohundred seventy episodes on Remodeling
Mastery, uh, with Mark Richardson.
Just wherever you can findpodcasts, it doesn't cost anything.
Uh, second is you, you, you could alwaysgo to Amazon and get any of my books.
(47:56):
I wrote a book on how fit is yourbusiness, which is kind of a fitness
checkup of your business, gives youa place to start, uh, fit to Grow
is about growing your business.
And the art of Time mastery of, asI've mentioned, is certainly, uh,
you can always reach out to me,certainly, uh, either through Eric.
(48:16):
Or, uh, just, you know, throughLinkedIn and, and I, I, I kind of
respond pretty regularly to that,those kind of things as well.
Eric (48:25):
Awesome.
Well, look, mark, I, I really appreciateyou coming on sharing this insight.
You know, obviously you, you've got atremendous amount of experience and,
and have worked with countless otherbusinesses to, to come to, you know,
this, this culmination of all thisgreat insight that I really believe
if people can, can take away just acouple nuggets, get it implemented.
Into their business,into their daily lives.
(48:45):
It's gonna help them tohave a lot more success.
So, you know, thank you for everythingthat you've done for the remodeling
industry and for contractors to helpserve as that guiding light to help
them be able to achieve their potential.
You know, I think it's just, it's, it'sso important that we have people like
you that, that are willing to take thetime to help others and to give back.
That's how we can elevatethe industry as a whole.
(49:06):
So just wanna say thank you'cause I know often my pleasure.
Thank you, Eric, for all that you
Mark Richardson (49:11):
do.
Eric (49:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well have a great one, mark.
Thank you, you too.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe to the showand leave us a review and as always.
If you or someone you knowhas a story to share, please
(49:33):
contact us@builderstories.com.
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.
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