The Vision That Moves a Business Forward

What does it take to evolve from a one-man remodel crew to a high-end design-build brand built for scale? Tyler Madden launched Laurelless with a mission to raise the bar in remodeling, guided by a relentless pursuit of excellence that’s reflected in the name itself (Laurelless means no resting on laurels). Nearly a decade later, he has built a company defined by unwavering standards for both the clients they serve and the team they trust to deliver.

In this episode, Tyler shares how he transitioned from self-performing to leading with vision, what systems helped him delegate without sacrificing quality, and how he is creating a company that attracts people who believe in doing things the right way.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• How Madden designed a seamless process that guides clients from concept to completion while minimizing surprises and reducing stress
• What makes Laurelless stand out in a competitive market and how they sell the experience, not just the remodel
• The systems and forecasting tools that support sustainable and profitable growth
• Why vetting clients early with clear expectations around budget, timeline, and trust is key to protecting the team and delivering five-star results
• What it means to create true ownership within your team and why that is essential to scaling

Listen to the episode to learn more.

Resources:

Learn more about Laurelless here.

Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the podcast where wetake a deep dive into the stories
behind construction business leaders.
We will share how they got started,how they found success, and the
lessons learned along the way.
I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Welcome back everybody.
Today I'm here with Tyler Madden, whois the founder and CEO of Laurelless.

(00:24):
They're located in Denver, Colorado,doing exclusive, uh, remodels.
You know, really excitedto have you on the show.
Tyler.
Welcome to Builder Stories.
Thanks for having me.
Super excited to be here and, uh,share some of the lessons I've learned
and some of the stuff that I, uh,that I've collected over the years.
So excited to be a part of this.
Awesome.
Well, appreciate you taking the time.
So why don't you kick us off, kind ofgive us a little bit of your background.

(00:47):
How'd you get into construction?
How'd you start laureles?
What do you guys do?
Things like that.
The, uh, I mean the, the long storythat I'll, that I'll shorten is,
um, you know, in high school paintedcommercially, worked for my dad's
company doing big large scale commercialstuff, and I, you know, really learned
what it takes to have a work ethic.
There's really not a lot of roomfor, uh, you know, your, your

(01:09):
young, you know, entitled mentality.
And then, um, it was funny because allalong the way I would work with these
four men and these 40, 50, 60-year-oldguys in the trades that have obviously
done it their whole entire life.
And every single one of 'em was like.
Get out.
Don't do this.
Go to college.
Go to school, do something else.
Don't land here.
And I was like, yeah, you got it.
So went to college, got, uh, you know,the, the standard thing that every

(01:32):
general contractor goes and gets,got a biology and a chemistry degree
thinking I'm gonna go to medical school.
Um, college comes, things don'tgo the way that I want it to.
Med school doesn't happen.
Trying to figure out, hey, whatthe hell do I do with my life?
Do what everyone does with abiology and a chemistry degree.
And I go get a job at a restaurant,bartending, surfing, that whole
thing, uh, rise through theranks, apply that same concept.

(01:54):
How you do anything ishow you do everything.
If you're gonna do it, don't half ass it.
Um, so, you know, get into themanagement positions at that, uh,
business and realize like, I don'tlike working for other people.
I'm not cut out for that.
It's just not my jammy jam.
Um.
So when I, uh, when I was at thebar, we actually bought our first
house, my, my girlfriend at the time.
And I, and it was a fixerupper in Denver, Colorado.

(02:16):
And we move in and, you know, it, it wasa decent house, but nothing was updated,
nothing was fixed, nothing was remodeled.
And I was like, man, I'd reallylike to give my girlfriend
the nicest house that I can.
Um, you know, you have some peoplecome, you know, some subs, some specific
trades come, give you some pricingand you're like, I will learn how to
do that 'cause I cannot pay for that.
So.
In like 2013, I just started tinkeringwith things, going to YouTube,

(02:39):
learning as much as I can throughtrial and error on my own house.
Um, and literally learned as many tradesas I possibly could, tried to do things.
Um, and the reason I did it myself wasn'tnecessarily because I was cheap, but I
also did hire out some more key specialtythings that I assumed at that point.
If you're a career, fill in theblank, tradesman, tile person,

(03:01):
carpenter, painter, whatever.
If you're a career one of those,and that's how you make your,
your exclusive living, you, you'vegotta do it really well, right?
So I assumed they can surely do itbetter than me and apply a, a finer
tooth comb and be more technical.
And then I would hire them andthen they would rush through and
they'd be like, well, I don't dothis for a living, but I'd like to
see X, y, and ZA little bit better.
I'd like to see the grout lines lined upvertically instead of like these raw cuts.

(03:26):
Pick these things apartafter they would leave.
But I don't like conflicts.
I wouldn't tell 'em that to their face.
'cause I'm like, who am I to tella career tile person that their,
that their job isn't very good.
So I would fix this shit at night.
Can we cuss you?
You interview a lot of,a lot of contractors.
Surely I can't be the first one to cuss.
Right?
Okay.
I'll limit it.
Um, so surely like I'm there atnight fixing their stuff, learning.

(03:48):
Well, if they weren't willing todo it the right way, I'm the guy
that's gonna do it the right way.
And all the while I started working withlike a friend, uh, a, a business owner
of a friend, um, it was like their momand she was a designer and she would
take on like more design stuff andthen their clients would want more.
Remodel stuff and she'd be like,you're remodeling your house,
you can remodel this house.
And I was like, yeah, yes, but no.

(04:10):
Uh, so we started doing littlethings, more cosmetic stuff, and
I, I spent two or three years doingthat and it got into the point of
doing whole entire homes, uh, whileI was also simultaneously doing mine.
And, and then we startedbuying real estate and I would
self perform a lot of things.
And, uh, you know, we grew our benchof, of subcontractors over the years.
Specialist things thatI didn't want to do.

(04:30):
Uh, so it just grew and grewuntil I lost my job at the bar.
All that was happening as justlike a side project side hustle.
Lost my job at the bar, wentfull-time helping this lady.
Um, and then I just got tired of beingthe guy that knew everything about
construction, was responsible forcreating the layout, the design, the
implementation, lining up the schedule,the subs, the budget, everything.

(04:52):
And she was just there and I was like.
Cool.
You get to like set the curtainsin the couch at the end of
the project and somehow we'resplitting this, not amicably.
So that's when I separated from her,started my own business, working
for myself, realizing I just wasn'tcut out to work for someone else.
Um, and that's when we created Lawless.
Uh, originally it was calledMadden Design 'cause Tyler Madden.

(05:13):
And I was like, well, I don't wantit always to be married to me.
Like when I want to grow out of doingthis stuff, it doesn't make sense
to have a business named after me.
So we took all the concepts that arelike really locked into my DNA of
all the things I already mentioned.
How you do anything, how you doeverything, don't half-ass it.
Um, all of those things, if it'sworth doing, it's worth overdoing.
And we came up with the term lawless.

(05:35):
Are you familiar?
Have you ever heard the termresting on your laurels?
Yep.
Resting on your laurels is a conceptthat most people attribute to good
enough is good enough, and you'rejust gonna sit back on your laurels
because everything is, is just fine.
Um, I don't have laurels to rest on.
Good enough is never good enough.
I always take every little detailand try to zoom into it because
I feel like the smallest detailmakes the biggest difference.

(05:57):
And that's how we run ourconstruction business.
Uh, if I didn't get into constructionand I was a, you know, a lawn person,
I would apply the same concept to howI cut lawns to, you know, how I, you
know, run whatever business I would run.
It would have that same concept.
So we created that name and uh, andthat's kind of what our business has been
centered around is, you know, excellencein all we do and trying to Absolutely.

(06:19):
Uh.
Overdo everything.
Uh, whether it's the communication withthe client, whether it's the, the delivery
of the, you know, customer service.
We like to say that we sell anexperience at Laurelless to our clients
because we want them to come to usfor everything from the concept, the
creation of the design to spec, youknow, specking out what design features

(06:40):
all the materials, and then a one-stopshop all the way through completion
of the project, execution of it.
Um, so that they're not looking fordesigners or architects or any of that.
So.
Um, we just try and be as much of aboutique firm that does everything
from, you know, design to build onremodels, and that's, that's where
we found a lot of, um, satisfaction.
That's where I found a lot ofsatisfaction, taking my nuance and,

(07:02):
and everything I care about andapplying it to remodel construction.
Yeah, that's, uh, super awesomeman, that, that's, uh, really,
you know, really interesting.
I, you know, I, I, I can't say I'veever had anyone, you know, tell me
they, they had originally named theircompany, you know, after themselves,
but then had them forethought.
To think, man, like one day maybe,you know, I wanna sell this or
go off or do something else.
Don't want it tied to me.

(07:23):
Exactly.
That's, uh, that's really smart.
Well, and, and you're a visionaryand a founder yourself, and I think
there's a lot of parallels between,you know, what your listeners,
uh, could and should be hearing.
I mean, probably not hereto give construction tips.
I think there's more value in thinkinglike a business owner than a contractor
on your show and understandingwhat it takes to grow and scale

(07:43):
a business such that you're not.
You're not absolutely requiredto contribute to it, for
it to continue running.
And I think that's visionary thinkingrather than contractor thinking.
So there's a mindset shift I think,that people need to go through.
Yeah.
So, so what year was this when you,when you officially started Lois?
I think it was 2017.
2017? Mm-hmm.
Okay.

(08:03):
17, 20 18. Somewhere in there.
So what was it like in the first, youknow, kind of first year or so, like, you
know, just, was it just you, did your wifekind of join immediately or did she Yeah.
Join you later?
So a lot of it was just me.
She actually had a stableW2 job through all of this.
You know, when I'm gallivanting out there,like a, a wannabe business owner and
being self-employed when you're, you know,newly self-employed, you don't have paper

(08:26):
trail that supports your income trying toget loans and trying to buy real estate,
that sort of stuff isn't super easy whenyou're, you know, an, an entrepreneur.
Um, but when I separated fromthat designer, obviously.
I didn't have a faucetthat I could just turn on.
That was immediate leadsand immediate jobs.
Like she was attracting the,the jobs and lining those up.
So that was something where I startedtaking jobs that really I didn't

(08:50):
want, just like, I'm sure a lot ofcontractors are where it's like, I just
gotta take the next one that pays me.
Um, not the ideal scenario, but you'vegotta do whatever you can when you
first start to create your reputationand, you know, get out there and have.
You know, uh, a significant wake of,uh, satisfied Paris, significant number
of satisfied people in your wake.
So.

(09:10):
Yeah, very involved on the ground, um,very minimally trying to grow a team.
And it wasn't, that was in 20 17,20 18, and it wasn't until like
2021 that I hired my first full-timeemployee, which was a project manager.
Um, which.
Ultimately just, it was a, itwas a reflexive thing where I was
like, I just need someone, and itprobably wasn't the right hire and

(09:33):
at, at that point, you know, theycontributed for a couple of years.
And then the goal was always tobring my wife into the business.
But you also have to do somethingto accommodate that move where she's
giving up a whole entire salaryfrom someone who pays her every two
weeks to join my stupid little idea.
Where it's like, Hey, wemight get paid eventually.
Um, so she joined twoyears ago, uh, in 2023.

(09:59):
Um, full-time as the COO.
So I'm the CEO founder visionary,I think in future tense.
Uh, and she is the COO, uh, comes from abackground in hr. So she thinks in present
tense where she takes my ideas and, andputs a game plan together to achieve it.
So a really good pairing, uh, on, on paperand working with your spouses, you know.

(10:20):
Fraught with challenges as well.
But, um, that's kind of the, theprocess since like 2021 hired a
project manager, I was still hyperinvolved in doing a lot of the work.
Um, it wasn't until maybe a yearago that I really started separating
myself from the daily activity ofconstruction and trying to force myself
to be CEO visionary, uh, who has a verydifferent role than the people that are

(10:43):
actually, you know, swinging hammers.
Yeah.
So who's, who focuses on sales?
So I currently focus on sales, um,uh, at at least as far as, you know,
selling the gospel of what we do.
That's something that I'mobviously very passionate about.
So I want to have that interactionwith the clients, with our homeowners,
just to ensure they understand,Hey, here's what our process looks

(11:05):
like, here's how we, here's howwe differ from other contractors.
Uh, just wanna make sure I'ma good fit for you and make
sure you're a good fit for me.
Um, you know, I'm sureyou've talked to a lot of.
A lot of contractors that are takingjobs with just nightmare clients,
and that's not what we want.
We want to, you know, ensure veryearly on that it's a, that it's a
good two-way street for both of us.

(11:26):
So I'm involved in the sales upuntil the point of creating the
estimate, the scope of work, deliveryof that, and so on and so forth.
And it goes to our project manager.
Awesome.
Yeah, no, it's, uh, I, I hear all the timeabout nightmare, uh, client situations.
So how, what, what do you do to, youknow, it sounds like you're kind of
interviewing them too, so like, do youhave any sort of red flags or things that

(11:47):
you're looking for to try to decide ifsomeone's gonna be a good fit or not?
Yeah, I think, uh, we, we start earlyon where our website is, our lead
magnet that we refer to, and if anyonecomes as a word of mouth referral,
if they haven't been to our website,I make sure that they go there.
Then we've got our formsubmission, uh, on our website.
So our website and our forms are designedto weed people out that aren't a good fit

(12:10):
for us, rather than us having to answerthe phone every single time Joe Schmo
calls and ask them all the questions andhave a success rate that's extremely low.
Um, so.
A lot of the questions that we ask onour website is one, like, what, what
type of project are you looking for?
Is it a basement, is it abathroom, is it a kitchen?
Is it a whole home?
Is it an entertaining space?
And then within that category, we'reasking them, what's your timeframe?

(12:33):
What's your expected budget?
Uh, because the biggest thingI wanna make sure of is one.
You went through our website, youknow what our process looks like.
I'm not just the guy that shows up andyou have all the parts and pieces that I
need and you expect me to put it together.
Uh, I wanna make sure they understand.
I'm gonna help you through design.
I'm gonna spec out the materials.
I'm gonna hold your hand throughthis whole entire process.
Um, so we need them to understandthat that's, we don't want

(12:57):
a hyper involved client.
We want a client that wants to trust theircontractor and go live their life in a way
that allows us to execute their projectwithout them breathing down our neck.
Um, but we earn that trust upfront, so.
Yeah, the making sure they have arealistic budget is like the first
thing that we want to come to termswith instead of spinning our wheels,

(13:18):
creating a scope of work and an estimate,because we do a very comprehensive
scope of work, uh, that ultimatelyputs us in a position where it's so
thorough that we know all of the ins andthe outs, with the exception of like.
Curve ball stuff you might discover,uh, mold or rot or, or things like that.
But we never wanna givethem a change order.
So we're spending quite a bit of timecreating a thorough scope of work

(13:39):
and a price that we will not change.
Uh, every time they say, oh, well Iwant this, every contractor's favorite
thing to say is, oh, that that wasn'tincluded, or, that's gonna cause money.
We wanna include everything.
Give 'em the big number upfront.
So if we're wasting time on clientsthat don't have a realistic budget,
um, that's just, that's a huge bummer.
So, yeah.
Are, are you asking thosequestions right outta the gate?
Are you educating them on your websiteabout what the cost would be to,

(14:02):
to do certain, you know, projects?
Exactly.
We've got blogs on our websitethat are, um, that are helping
people understand like, hey,what are the, the typical costs?
Um, the thing that we need to, youknow, make more clear is a lot of
people that are expecting to gofind a designer and then hand that
design to a contractor, obviouslythey're expecting to pay a designer.

(14:23):
Uh, that amount of money is like, we don'treally have a, a direct fee for design.
One.
'cause we don't want people to comeget design through us and then go
take it and shop another contractor.
We want them to sign up towork with us throughout.
So we bake those numbers into the restof the, uh, the rest of the thing.
So that's somewhere I think wecould educate, uh, our clients a
lot more is like, what's the costof design or what's the benefit

(14:45):
of, of using us for your design?
Um, but yeah, we're, we're definitelytrying to make it clear that, you
know, 20, $30,000 isn't really goingnearly as far as you used to think.
For sure.
So how, how have you, I, I assumeearly on you, you must have done,
you've outsourced the design, but isthat now a full-time role within the
company, or how do you do the design?

(15:05):
I've never outsourced it.
Never.
It's always been me.
Yep.
So I've always been design too.
Yep, yep.
So I've always been, um, theguy that does the architectural
design, the floor planning, thelayouts, um, all that sort of stuff.
Hey, we can move this wall.
Hey, we can reimagine this space.
That's always been something that I loved.
Doing and, and my brain really worksconceptually with Yeah, that's, uh,

(15:30):
I'm not surprised that, uh, that, that,that, that you also do the design.
Is there anything youcalled for you Tyler?
Uh, honestly, that's, that's kind ofhow the business got to where it was, is
literally I was the guy that did all thethings, whatever it was, if the business
needed it, I was always trying to figureout, you know, where's the intersection
of, oh, I can save this money by doing it.
Self, but I never reallyunderstood the opportunity cost.

(15:52):
The opportunity cost is, if I'mbusy doing that, that means I can't
do something else, which is maybeget more clients, maybe think about
the next iteration of the business.
All those things are still true.
Um, but I, I think any businessowner, especially someone who
has worked in the field, needs tocome to terms with themselves and
make that mental decision that.
Just because I can do itdoesn't mean I should do it.

(16:13):
Um, and that's where I'm at currently.
And, and that's where, you know,I'm, I'm also trying to get my
wife the COO because she's stilljumping into a ton of positions.
I'm like, just 'cause wecan, doesn't mean we should.
Um, that's, that's not a recipe forthe growth and scale that we wanna see.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's, uh, I think it'sthe, the natural challenge for
any entrepreneur who's reallypassionate about what you're doing.
You, you know, you could doit, but it's like, how do you.

(16:35):
How do you delegate?
When's the right time?
Like, it's so hard to kind of let,let go a little bit, but you know,
it's all about, you know, hiring theright people, building the right team.
Uh, so, so what does the restof the team look like today?
So right now we've got, uh,myself, CEO, my wife, COO.
We've got an executive assistant, um,for both of us that handles, you know,
emails, scheduling, that sort of thing.

(16:56):
We've understood the, the value ofhuman capital, um, with low level tasks.
So we've been trying to reallyget that out of the way.
And then we've got a, uh, project.
Excuse me, a full-time salaried projectmanager, a full-time, um, hourly
foreman, a full-time hourly laborer.
We just had two laborers that we let gojust because they weren't reaching our
standard and it, it really made me feellike we're sacrificing our offering.

(17:20):
So we, we went through a, a phaseof cleaning house, um, with,
you know, really increasing the.
Put and the quality of the output.
And then we've got, uh, VA who does, uh,he helps with our, uh, drafting right now.
So, um, we're outsourcing that.
Or I'll give him the firstiteration and have a meeting about
what our, uh, ideas look like.
And then, um, outside of that,uh, you're looking at it.

(17:43):
Alright.
Yep.
Yeah.
And how many, yeah, how many projects areyou guys, you know, managing at one time?
So we've got anywhere from four tosix projects active at any given time.
Um, where, you know, again, everysingle one of those is everything
from concept to completion.
Uh, some of 'em are in the precon,uh, pre-construction planning

(18:04):
phase where we're still ironingout all the design materials and,
you know, really nailing down andwe try and phase all of them such.
That, Hey, we don't have a huge team andwe, we don't like to outsource a ton.
Um, so we try and phase 'em suchthat, hey, the guys that are doing
demo don't need to be at three placessimultaneously where we'll phase those,
you know, two to three weeks apart.
Um, so yeah, we're, we're really tryingto figure out what is that, what's that

(18:28):
happy position of our teams' capacity?
Uh, plus obviously what thebusiness needs to survive.
We've got a fair amount of overhead.
Um, you know, when you take on employees.
A lot of times it begs the question,are you taking on employees and are
they generating additional revenueto cover their costs and more?
Or are you just keeping the samedelta between what you make and

(18:48):
what you need to spend on everyone?
If that margin isn't growing, everytime you hire someone, it's really
hard pill to swallow where it's like,great, our margins are still the
same, we just have more overhead.
Um, so that's, that's what we're stillhonestly trying to figure out is.
Um, at what point does it become moreexponential where your margin grows,
not, uh, in relation to the number ofpeople like your, your existing team

(19:10):
can really start having multiples totheir cost, to your, your bottom line.
And hey, at what point do theystart creating revenue that's
1.5 or two, two x their cost?
That's where, you know, I, I thinkour graph is gonna start hockey
sticking, uh, but we're still,we're still trying to find that.
Have you do, do you guys have likean annual budget for the company

(19:31):
where you've, you know, reallytried to model out kinda what
the, what the revenue goals are?
You know?
Yep.
Overhead is kind of, does that, youknow, do you use that to help sort
of inform when to make those hires?
We do.
So the other team member that I leftout was, uh, we, we do have a fractional
CFO, uh, fractional, meaning he'snot just exclusively working for us.
We pay him, he works for multipledifferent businesses as their CFO

(19:52):
'cause we don't need a full-time CFO.
I don't want to give someone,you know, whatever it takes to,
to hire one as a salary, but.
For our needs.
Um, you know, he's contributingto helping us forecast and he's
doing all of our, uh, accounting.
He's doing all of our forecasting, uh,looking at all of our work in progress,
identifying, Hey, you guys have, you know,the goals of hitting X revenue annually.

(20:13):
Here's your burn rate.
Here's how many jobs you need, youknow, on a monthly, or how much
money, revenue you need to createmonthly, quarterly, all of that.
So we've got our, our annual goals,um, we've got our quarterly goals,
and then he's helping us makesure that we're making the right.
Visions.
Um, but also it's, it's always, it'salways that problem of like, well,

(20:33):
you can't afford to hire someone,so you're the guy, uh, where I'm
like, well, I don't love that.
What's your, I mean, when you, when youthink about continuing to build the team,
like what is your hiring process like?
How, how do you recruit people?
How do you vet them?
You know, it sounds likeyou've let a couple people go.
Would you?
Mm-hmm.
Would you attribute that to,you know, did, did you make the
wrong hire or did the companygrow and they couldn't keep up?

(20:56):
Kind of how, you know, how do you sortof think about continuing to build?
I think it's, yeah.
I, I think it's a combination of things.
I think, um, as a visionary and founder,you've gotta do a good job at inspiring
a team with a vision for the business.
Um, just as you have at Job Tread whereyou had a vision and you've inspired a
lot of people to, to join that vision.
And at a certain point, if you'renot providing them enough, uh,

(21:21):
enough guidance with what thebusiness aims to achieve and.
Um, you're not vetting them andverifying, Hey, what does the
business need from this position?
Um, identifying the roles andresponsibilities instead of having
ambiguous guidelines on like, Hey,I think your job should entail,
you know, this, that and the other.
Um, so the first couple of hires, wedidn't have near enough systems processes.

(21:44):
It was just like, Hey, you couldjoin the team 'cause you're
eager and you reached out to me.
I didn't even have a jobposting like, yeah, you're in.
Um, that was, that wasthe initial kind of.
Process of hiring and I didn't loveit and it didn't benefit the business.
Um, and honestly, we're still goingthrough that where my, my goal for the
business since before I ever hired myfirst employee, was always to, um, create

(22:08):
something with the business that isa beacon of excellence that attracts.
People that want to contribute to it.
That literally attracts tradespeople.
It attracts all the employeeswhere it's like, Hey, we stand for
something different In a industrythat is plagued by people that
think good enough is good enough.
If you agree with the concept, thephilosophy, and the values that

(22:29):
we have, we'd love to, you know.
Have someone like that join ourteam, have a multi multitude of
people like that, join our team.
And, and my theory, uh, I read a lotof business books and the theory is
if you've got a lot of a players rockstars on your team collectively, that
team of rock stars will not permitsomeone who's just mailing it in.

(22:50):
If someone else joins the team andthey're clearly not a rock star at their
job, the whole collective of the teamis like, yeah, we're all contributing
to a vision and you're making it.
Harder for all of us, soeither get better or get out.
Um, that's my dream isto have a team, you know?
But ultimately our team is small rightnow, such that there is no collective, um.

(23:11):
So my, my hiring technique, uh, you know,attracting people, I'm spending a lot
of time refining our internal messaging,refining our vision, documenting what
our, our mission, vision, values, allof that sort of stuff is, and then
putting that out into the university at.
You know, the website, social media,um, obviously hiring platforms

(23:32):
and then networking as well.
I think professional networkinglocally is, is extremely valuable.
Um, I've done that a lot in realestate investing, but very little in,
in the building community and that'ssomething that I think would be extremely
beneficial, um, is continuing to network.
Uh, the other, the other thing thatI would say with our hiring efforts
is like, after a number of hires thatdidn't benefit the business that I,

(23:56):
in the way that I expected it to, Iwanna be a whole lot more direct during
the hiring process of saying, thisis all the stuff that I need to see
from this, uh, from this job position.
Uh, instead of letting them kindof write their own, like roles of
responsibilities, say, Hey, what's allthe stuff that I do not want to do myself?
Your job is to do those things withinthis role, uh, and then simultaneously

(24:18):
do the same thing with my wife and belike, what are all the things that you're
doing that are not your job, that arethe project manager's job, that are the
designer's job, that are the whatever.
So let's create that job listing basedon the skills and the tasks and the
roles that we're still contributingto that we don't want to, instead
of just finding a boiler plate.
Project manager roles andresponsibilities online.
It's a, it's just a, a standardizedthing, whereas like, I, I think

(24:40):
my business is specific to me.
My wants, my needs, uh, thereforeso too to the job descriptions need
to be, and I think that's probablytrue for everyone's business.
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I always encouragepeople like, you know, take as long
as you need to find the right person.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I've been talking to a lotof people lately who, you know, they
say they'll actually pay, you know, theapplicant to come spend a day or two

(25:00):
like in the field working with them.
'cause it's, it's easy for someone tocome and just, you know, put on a, a,
a happy game face for an hour in aninterview, but like, man to, to go through
a full day's worth of grind, like at the.
End of that day.
Mm-hmm.
What's that person like doing?
Do I really wanna, you know,go have a beer with them?
Like, are they someoneI want to hang out with?
Like, is that, you know, the, the,the type of person that will fit well
with your culture and your company.

(25:21):
And so, you know, I think the,the, the better job you can do,
hiring them on the front end, themore likely they'll be successful.
And I think you really nailed it.
And as a contractor who's worked in thefield and never really had W2 experience
working in those formal, uh, arenasof like, Hey, we've got a hierarchy.
You report to this person and this person.
And like I, I'm notfamiliar with that world.

(25:43):
I've never had a W2 job.
I've always been hourly basedwhere it's like you show up,
you do your job, you get paid.
Uh, where I lack that.
That knowledge, that experience.
So that's somewhere where I'mreally trying to educate myself
and, and get a lot better.
And I would beg the same question ofyou is obviously you grew and scaled the
business with some significant, uh, scale.
So like those early hires compared tothe latter hires, when when you reach

(26:06):
a certain scale, you've got people thatcan help you keep and hold accountability
and help dictate the needs of, youknow, whatever different departments.
I would ask you like during the.
Early portions of your journey,what was hiring like and how did
you, how did you get to the pointwhere your business and your efforts
really hockey stepped on the graph?
'cause I'm curious to Yeah.
To navigate that.
I, I think, uh, you know, so I'm,I'm, I'm really fortunate the, the,

(26:29):
the kind of the core team as I, as Iwould describe it, the people who were,
were here from the very beginning.
I mean, a lot of us, we all workedtogether at the previous software company.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my, my first businesswe, we sold in 2015.
And so, you know, I was, I wasfortunate to kind of be able to pick
and choose the, the better of the bestand kind of bring 'em onto the team.
And, and you know, I just, I think there'ssomething to be said about like, you know,
having that longevity, being able to justlike trust those people because like.

(26:53):
You've worked with them for over a decade.
Like, you know them.
You know, I, that's it's, it's sohard to, to hire and pay someone
to be loyal and to know at the endof the day they're gonna be there.
You know?
So to the extent that like you find andpick the right people early on, I mean,
it makes all the difference in the world.
And, you know, it's, it's, it's.
Let's see.
There's, you can't put the secondstory on a home if you didn't

(27:15):
build a strong foundation Correct.
At the ground.
And, you know, I think it's, it's,it's all about, you know, focusing
on your team, on your culture.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like we, wehaven't outsourced anything.
We don't have any remote people.
Like, we all literally worktogether in the same office.
And, and, and we've just put a lot ofemphasis on building the right team.
The people that you know, you, Imean, arguably you spend more time

(27:36):
with, with your coworkers thanyour own family because of, yep.
How much time you're sleeping athome and it's like, are these the
people that we want to go intobattle with every single day?
Is this who I wanna wake up andspend the next eight hours next to?
Like, you gotta focus on buildingthe right team and then putting
like this, this, you know, thestructure in place where everybody
is incentivized and rewarded andrecognized for their successes.

(27:59):
So many times I see people who, youknow, their, their team is awesome.
They're doing great work, but they nevertake the time to go and show appreciation.
Yep.
You know, you gotta showcase yourpeople and, and when they're doing
great work, like recognize 'em for it,like we do something super simple, but.
Every team lunch.
Uh, so we, we do team lunch everyWednesday, and we have a who's kicking
ass box that anybody throughoutthe week can put in just a little,

(28:21):
you know, a little anonymous.
Oh, that's awesome.
To recognize someone.
And so the very first thing I doat the beginning of every team
launch is I read those out Nice.
You know, and it's, this is likea, a, you know, it's a free thing
that we do that like, it, it, itcost us nothing to make sure that
we're recognizing everybody because.
You know, obviously Ican't see everything.
Nobody can see what everyone's doing allthe time, but like we all see each other.

(28:43):
And so by bringing that front and center,you know, it just, it really creates a
very, you know, en encouraging cultureof people to go above and beyond and to
do the things even when nobody's looking.
You know, how do you excel,you know, everywhere.
And so I think that's like, justsuch a great system and, and
I encourage people like thinkabout how can you take the time.
To recognize your people.
I mean, if someone, you know, getsa, gets a shout out in a, in a,

(29:06):
in a Google review, like, oh yeah,share that with the whole team.
You know, like, thank them.
Like let them know like, man, like, youknow, I, I, I saw this or I saw that work
you did, or I saw how you treated thatcustomer, that other sub or your vendor.
Like, just those little things.
I think they go so far.
Absolutely.
I've learned you can't just like, youknow, pay people to be passionate, like
you have to genuinely show them you careabout them and you want them to excel.

(29:30):
Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's definitelysomething, especially as someone
in, you know, the contractingfield where if you've come from
the trades and you're trying togrow and scale a business, that's a
skillset all its own, it's a mindset.
We talked about that early on.
It's a mindset all its own that is veryvastly different from being an operator
or being a tactician where, Hey, I'mjust gonna go in and do the damn thing.

(29:52):
Where now you have tounderstand, like we said.
Understand the value of humancapital and the business can't
exist without other people.
So how do you figure out how to attract,retain, and celebrate those other people?
And, and that's an ongoing missionof ours, is to attract, retain,
and celebrate, uh, the people.
Because ultimately this business, if,if those people aren't contributing,

(30:14):
the vision doesn't come true.
You know, and, and, and you mentioned,you know, celebrating like, I, I
think it's so important that youknow, you, you don't just celebrate
the big goals and the big wins.
Like, you gotta find ways to celebratethe small wins along the way.
Know this, this being an entrepreneur,building a business, like, there, there
is no like, you know, end in sight, right?
Like, you're just constantly nonstopcharging ahead, climbing whatever

(30:36):
mountain's next, tackling whateverproblem gets thrown your way.
And it's like, you gotta find ways.
To celebrate the small wins.
And that's where like, you know, I, I,I really like where, you know, even if,
if you have a set of goals, you know,whether it's, you know, a monthly goal,
it's, you know, Hey, we want to close outthis project and this timeline, or some
sort of like, just find the small wins.
Yep.
And then find ways to, to celebrate, youknow, bring in, you know, breakfast tacos

(30:57):
or have a happy hour or, or take the teamout, you know, to, to a lunch or Yeah.
You know, dinner or something like that.
Like, I think that's,like, that goes so far.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and it really helpsto just show people that like.
Guys, it's, it is not just about,you know, closing out and, you know,
maximizing our profit every job, or like,Hey, like, I, I wanna recognize you.
I want to thank you.
You know, I, I, I think too, like, Iencourage people to also think about

(31:18):
like not just your immediate employees.
Mm-hmm.
You know, but think about thegreater kind of community that
their families, the people that.
At the end of the day, like, youknow, if you can involve them, maybe,
you know, and it's not all the time,but like some events, maybe the
holiday parties, things like that.
But like, invite the extendedfamilies and let them come and feel
like they're part of this, you know,this, this movement, this, this

(31:39):
community that, and subcontractorsand, and their families, vendors.
That's, that's exactly, you know,our, our thought processes, not
just putting our heads down andpretending nothing else matters.
It's how do you involvethe, the greater community?
How do you network within it?
How do you get them?
To understand what you stand forand, you know, show gratitude
to their contributions.
Absolutely.

(31:59):
So I'm curious, you, you saidyou, you, you read a lot of books.
Do you have any, uh, any favorites that,that you'd like, recommend for others?
Yeah, uh, they're nottactical like business books.
I'm, I'm much more oflike a, a mindset guy.
Um, you just mentioned something thatreally resonates with me, where you're
always chasing the next mountain.
There's, there's always, every, every timeyou hit a goal, you're like, oh, well.

(32:22):
Yeah, but it could have beenbetter or could have been
bigger, could have been whatever.
And then you set your sightsimmediately on the next thing.
I never celebrate small wins.
I don't even celebrate big wins.
You know, you get to 'em and you're like,fuck, next, next could have been a little
bit better, even when they're great.
Um, so that's like a mind mindsetof, of maintaining perspective and
gratitude for what's happening right now.
Um, and the book that I love thatreally supports that is called The Gap.

(32:44):
End the gain.
It's, uh, written by DanSullivan and, uh, Benjamin Hardy.
I think, uh, they've written a number ofbooks and I love every single one of them.
Um, but it's called The Gap in the Gain.
And the premise about that is like,if you look at a timeline of like
where you started and where you arealong that timeline, uh, if you are
measuring or, uh, where you started,where you are and where you want to be.

(33:06):
So you're always gonna be between whereyou started and where you want to be.
But if you're measuring thedistance between where you currently
are and where you want to be.
That's called Measuring the Gap.
What I don't have, they shiftthat whole concept of measure
where you are against where youstarted, and that's called the gain.
What have you gained since you startedand have gratitude and appreciation
and perspective for that rather thansaying, well, I don't have that yet.

(33:27):
Well, I'm not at $10million in revenue yet.
Well, I don't have 25 uh employees yet.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't.
That's living in the gap and that's alwaysa, a huge recipe for having constant
anxiety, constant stress, constantlike, ah, well, there's too much to do.
Whereas if you flip that on your headwhere it's like, look at how good we
did do, could we have done better?
Sure.
But look at how well we did.
Do Awesome.

(33:48):
Love it.
Uh, my, my, my favorite book right now,I mean, it, it was, uh, uh, they Ask
You Answer by Marcus Sheridan, but,uh, he, he just put out a kind of, I
think it's a third, third edition of it.
It's called Endless Customers.
Uh, you know, it's, it'sall about, you know, kind.
You know, answering all of the questionsthat your customers may have, like mm-hmm.
You know, don't, don't just like waitfor them to call in and ask questions.

(34:09):
Like, the better you can be aboutproviding education and, and
leveraging videos and all of thecontent and everything that like,
you know, that they need to know.
You know?
'cause people, we, you know, as salespeople we're all getting asked the same
questions over and over and over again.
He's like, you need to answer thosequestions and answer all of the hardest
questions, the things that you think.
You know, you, you wouldn't wannashare, you wouldn't wanna put out there.

(34:29):
Yeah.
He's like, just, you know, do it,you know, that will help them to
better understand who you are.
And it builds trust.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when, when they see thatyou're being transparent and like
you're wanting to do that, like,I think I read this book, the, the
first one they ask you answer like.
Maybe three or four years ago.
And, uh, it, it like, you know,really transformed how we operate
in regards to, like, we used to putout, and you guys have been with

(34:51):
us for a long time on job trade.
Mm-hmm.
We used to do all of our customertown halls and, and the product
updates were only for our customers.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, his, his premisewas that, you know, if you're
doing anything, you know.
You know, to, and, and, and you'rehiding from the competition, or you
don't want to share something becausecompetition might find out Yeah, well,
you're doing your, your prospects andyour customers a disservice because you're

(35:12):
making it harder for them to learn aboutyou and what you do and the updates.
And so, you know, after thatpoint, like we just, we open it up
to everyone, every webinar, it'sall transparency, product update.
It's, it's, it's out there and we publisheverything on YouTube, like, I love it.
Everything.
And like, I think that's like reallybeen one of the, the, probably the
most transformative things for us.
You know, we've got over 500 videoson YouTube now and like Yeah.

(35:34):
You know, we, we had, you know,hundreds of customers signing up
every month, and we probably only.
You know, they only talk to like half of'em because they're already getting all
of that education, all that knowledge.
They see the product.
Like they don't need to go through oursales process to, to just go sign up.
And like, I, you know, I thinkhis book is just super awesome.
You know, he's, this third edition'skind of really brought into, remind
me, what was the third edition called?

(35:54):
Uh, so it's called Endless Customers.
Mm-hmm.
And Marcus Sheridan.
And, uh, you know, he is, he isalso kind of talking about like
AI and like sort of really up.
Day to day, but it's, it's very kind ofmarketing and, and, and video focused.
But like, man, the importance ofvideo I think is just like, it,
it, you know, I, I think a lot ofpeople don't leverage video enough.
Mm-hmm.
And I, you know, I, I can't encourage youany more than, than, than I can, like you,

(36:16):
you, you gotta leverage video, you know?
Yeah.
At all phases.
I mean, you know, withevery customer, right?
Like, I ask people, like, sodo you create, you know, do
you record a video testimonial?
Do you, do you do a video walkthrough?
Like, do you ask them,do you interview them?
Like, hey.
What was the problem you were having?
Why did you, you know, hire us?
Like, tell us about the experience.
Show us the end product.
Like, that's like marketing gold.
Yeah.

(36:36):
And yet people don't do it.
They don't go capture that.
I think you, you mentioned a couple thingswhere I think that's like very valuable
for sales and, and a lot of people that.
Aren't salespeople by nature,I'm not a salesperson.
You think you know, the less you share,like you don't wanna share the nitty
gritty, the hard questions you want tolike, and people expect that salespeople
are gonna be a little bit shady andthey're not gonna be transparent.

(36:56):
So I could certainly see the valueof like the full transparency where,
especially for people before theyeven get to a sales conversation,
they've already seen all the.
Stuff.
So it's, it's also vetting your, yourpotential customers or clients, whereas
like, we gave you all the information,you're still interested, great.
You're our people.
Yeah.
Um, but also like you mentioned, tryingto hide from the competition and like keep
your nose down and fly under the radar.

(37:17):
And I think that's alot of people's problem.
Mine included, where like, Idon't wanna be too transparent,
especially on the internet.
Like I use, I use social mediapretty prevalently personally.
I've got a, a fair following and anytimewe post something like the internet
is full of trolls, like it makes youfeel like garbage really quickly.
And I'm like, I don't like this.
But to your point, and I think any contentcreator that's ever, you know, created

(37:37):
a following where you're not gonna geta lot of traction right outta the gate,
you're not gonna get a lot of interaction,you're not gonna get a lot of clients.
But the consistency of doingit, I think for any content
creator, um, is where it's at.
Where do it, no matter if itbenefits you right out of the gate
or even in the first however long.
So I, I definitely wanna look intothat because it is second nature to be
like, uh, I don't wanna like oversharebecause then some other professional's

(38:00):
gonna come tell me I'm dog shit.
And like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Yeah, mean, I think, I think, youknow, talking about pricing is probably
like the most prevalent example.
Like so many people, they don't wantto publish, you know, what is their
price or their price range or, or,and, and, and like to Marcus's point,
he was like, look, you don't actuallyhave to give them a price, but you
have to give them your thought process.
Like, help them understandwhat goes into the price.

(38:23):
Like help them understand what drives theprice up and what brings the price down.
And the complexities of construction,like it's more about kind of
creating that education mm-hmm.
And being, you know, transparent withwhy you price the white, you know, the
way you vari, how you come up with theprice and all the cost and the factors.
And like, I think that's whereit's just like super helpful.

(38:44):
And I mean, I've, I've seenmore and more contractors who,
you know, they are publishing.
Like, Hey, here's our,you know, our typical.
Average, you know, kitchen remodelmight be from X to Y and if you wanted
to do a bathroom, like, it just, itgives people that like, you know, that
that insight ahead of time so that ifthey do decide to schedule that call,
well you, you know that when you firstcome out with that price, it's not
gonna be that initial sticker shock.

(39:06):
Yeah.
'cause you already told themwhat the range would be.
Yeah.
We primed them to receive exactly that.
No, I, I think there's, there's alot to be said about that and I, I
haven't thought about it that way.
Uh, my social media manager, uh, whodoes my social media just personally
not for the business, uh, postedsomething recently where it was
like a, a comical thing, and thetext was like, oh, you think you're
gonna get two bathroom remodelsand a kitchen remodel for $50,000?

(39:29):
And it was just like, there was justlike, Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
And then in the comments, everybody,almost like hundreds and thousands.
Uh, of comments and there was likemultiple hundreds of thousands of
views on this, and it just went viral.
And I was like, oh, I hate this.
Everyone was like, I could do it.
I could do it for half of that.
I know.
I was like, yeah, but you'reself-performing, all of that.
You're not trying to create and scalea business with overhead and understand
your profits and your numbers andhiring out the right people and rock.

(39:50):
You self-perform.
And it was just like tearing me apart.
I was like, I don't like this at all.
Uh, but that's likeInstagram in a nutshell.
And you're talking about leveraging,you know, either your website or
YouTube and, and publishing thisstuff, not as like a, a social media.
Uh, aspect, but an educational aspect.
And I think it would be beneficialfor me to take that and understand

(40:11):
the value of educating clients.
Yeah.
Uh, rather than, you know.
Going viral on a stupid reel.
I mean, look, don't get me wrong.
I mean, like you, you can't complain thatyou had all of those people, you know,
looking at your profile and looking atyour website and saying, who is this guy?
Like, even if they disagreed,well, they commented, they created
engagement, they actually extended thereach for you, and you got him going.

(40:33):
Like, I mean, that's like, youknow, mission accomplished.
You know, you createdthat, that awareness.
And so like, I, I think it is, you know,again, like it's not, it's not doing what.
Everyone is going to agree with.
Mm-hmm.
It's being real, it's being honestand like, yeah, sure, people can go
hire, you know, Chuck in a truck andhe can cut every corner under the sun
and they're not gonna be satisfied.
And, and, and it is what it is.

(40:53):
And I think people arestarting to see that.
And by you sharing more about the whyand the under the hood and like what
goes into it and why you don't wannahire a contractor who's, you know, gonna
just give you the cheapest price andgo, you know, the jack of all trades.
Yeah.
So it's, you know, I thinkit's a, it's, it is important.
But, you know, I think, I thinkwith social though, I mean, just,
just, just why you brought it up.
I mean, like, again, that, that, that,that, that, that again builds the trust.

(41:17):
Mm-hmm.
People want to know who arethe people behind this company?
I percent do I like these people.
Do I trust these people?
Do I want these people in my home?
Like, who are they?
You know, and I think that's likeso many, so many of these, uh, like
entrepreneurs, I see they, theyneglect to build their own brand.
Yep.
And they, they, they, they justpost on their, on their, on
their company's, you know, pages.

(41:37):
And like, for better, for worse, the,the, the social media sites, they're,
they're really downplaying all ofthe, the, the company's content.
They want to, you know, boost the people.
Yes.
And that's what drives engagement.
People are not likely toengage with a company's page.
But if, you know, like when I post thesame content on job tread and on my.
My Facebook, I get like, youknow, 50 or a hundred acts.

(41:59):
The views, the engagement.
Mm-hmm.
The likes, the comments.
Mm-hmm.
It just goes to show like that,that's what drives people.
People want to engage with me, not justsome, you know, brand behind the scenes.
Some company, I mean, I think yougotta do both, but so many people don't
focus on their own personal brand.
You, you nailed it.
The personal brand.
I agree.
And that's exactly whatI've been focused on.

(42:19):
And the trifecta that we talk aboutall the time is know, like, trust.
You want people to know,like, and trust you.
And then no matter what you getinto, if they know you as a person
and, and Laurelless is not justgoing to be a remodel business.
It will be other, there will be other.
Are things under the lawlessumbrella, the beacon of excellence.
But whatever I do next, if they alreadyknow, like, and trust me, the people
that have been supportive of what I dowill more than likely support the next

(42:41):
thing that I do, regardless of whetherI have a reputation in that space,
regardless of, of any of my, you know,demonstrated experience or expertise,
they already know, like, and trust me.
And there's nothing more valuablethat you can earn, in my opinion.
I care about you.
Uh, I wanna do right by you.
Let's, let's make this happeninstead of just a business
that everyone's suspicious of.

(43:02):
Yeah.
Couldn't, couldn't agree more.
All right, so as, as we kind of wrap thisup here, I'm curious, like, you know,
if, if you were to have to pick a couplepieces of advice to share with others,
you know, is there anything that youknow now that you wish you would've known
when you're starting off on your journey?
You know, just kind of what, what, what,what guidance, what advice would you
give to others who are maybe earlieron thinking about making the plunge,

(43:23):
you know, starting their own thing?
Um, it's funny, I just had a conversationwith, uh, my HVAC guy, uh, yesterday.
He's in the field and want, wantsto own the business, and I was
like, dude, you, yeah, there's alot, there's a lot ahead of you.
Um, we touched on it a couple timesand the biggest thing that I would,
uh, that I would recommend is, youknow, you, you can't do it by yourself.
If you expect that you're gonna,that you're gonna, you know, go be

(43:45):
chuck in a truck and you're gonnabe the one guy that does the sales,
the marketing, the operations, theaccounting, you're gonna do all of that.
Understand what you're signing up for, andunderstand that that is not sustainable.
So at a certain point, you aregoing to need to figure out how to
attract talent, how to manage thattalent, and how to hold that talent.
Accountable, whatever that talent is,whether it's a sales person, a marketing

(44:07):
person, an an operations person, aforeman, a a technician, whatever the
case, and then you're gonna have tofigure out how to grow from just the
guy that does the things to managingpeople and managing people and holding
people accountable, um, is a wholedifferent world that, you know, frankly,
I don't think a lot of us guys fromthe trades are really set up for.
But, um.
It does have its values.

(44:28):
I mean, you're working for yourself.
Uh, when you're working for yourself.
It doesn't mean that you just havethe ultimate amount of flexibility.
You think you're a business owner, so youjust have all the free time in the world.
No, you'll work harder than youhave ever worked in your whole
entire life, but it's for a purpose.
And, you know, gettinginto the mindset thing, um.
I haven't really mentioned it, but the,the thing that I like to keep front and
center for myself is why like, uh, peoplecall it your why, like what's your why?

(44:52):
My why is to have more financial and timefreedom for myself and my family, and I
don't think I'm gonna get that from havinga job or a salary through a business.
I think I'll find that by creatinga business that can generate
enough momentum and, and attractenough people such that it is.
Um, providing me personallywith, with that why, and have a
meaningful place for people towork and earn for their families.

(45:13):
That's my why.
Um, I would challenge anyone andeveryone to understand what's your why.
If your why is like, oh, I hatehaving a boss and I just wanna make
more money, where it's like, figureout what you really signed up for.
Um, so figure out your why and thenunderstand how you're gonna have
to grow and educate yourself indifferent ways than you, than you're
already, you know, figuring out inyour W2 or your hourly position.

(45:34):
You've gotta become a wholedifferent person to start.
Grow and operate abusiness, but it's worth it.
No, I think that's,that's all great advice.
And you know, I think one thing thoughthat, you know, you, you, you might
not have mentioned and, and justkind of we talked about earlier, but
like you, you don't have to have abusiness degree to figure all this out.
Like there are so many other waysthat you can go and, and acquire

(45:55):
this knowledge and this educationand, and this skillset like again.
Networking with others.
Yeah.
Adjoining coaching groups, likethere's so many different networks out
there of people who want to help you.
All you gotta do is showup in the right place.
Absolutely learn and surroundyourself by people who have
already been there and done that.
Mm-hmm.
And then focus on it.
Devote time to your own personaland professional development.

(46:18):
That's how you can keep excelling.
Like you're not gonna know everythingday one, you know, expect it.
That is just a fact.
But like as long as like you, you,you reflect on and you learn from
what worked, what didn't work,what could I do better next time?
You know, I think Tyler and I both,you know, sort of sometimes we're
always looking at, well that was good,but like, what could I done better?
Yes.
You know, have that mindset anddo focus on continual improvement.

(46:40):
Like never get stuck,you know, in your ways.
Never think that just 'causeI've been doing it for the last.
10, 20, 50 years.
That's, that's the wayI should keep doing it.
Like, that isn't the case.
Like you can't just accept status quo.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's, it's so important tojust keep growing and keep learning and.
I, I think same thing, you know, with,with what you said about knowing your
why, like, I mean, for, for me too,that's, that's exactly like I work

(47:02):
more hours than anybody, you know?
I, I, I'm not in this for the money.
I've already sold a company.
I, I do not need the paycheck.
Like, I'm here because like, I want.
To give back and to help others.
Like I, I was super fortunate.
My, my dad, he is, he was my CFO, mylast company, CFO of this company.
Awesome.
You know, he, I, I, I'mthe son of an entrepreneur.
Like it's natural that I would becomean entrepreneur, but like I understand

(47:23):
what he did for me and how he was mymentor growing up, and my advisor and
my guide and like, I want to help.
Other people be able to have, youknow, that, that same inspiration and
motivation and drive and like somebodyto tell you, like, you can do it.
Like, here are the thingsthat you need to focus on.
Go do it.
Go, you know, don't acceptno, like, just be persistent.
Try work hard.
You know?

(47:44):
And those are the things that like,you know, at, at the end of the
day, like my goal is to create thebiggest platform that I possibly
can to help the most number up.
You know, contractors out thereto build a successful business.
Like I've seen what it takes and,you know, I, I, I just, I hope as
many other people can have thatsame level of success and that's,
that's what drives and motivates me.
And it's, well, youjust gave me goosebumps.

(48:05):
No, and, and I think I loveeverything you just said, like you
were primed to think like this.
Think like an entrepreneur wheremost people that are going to make
that decision to start their ownbusiness after working in the trades.
We're not, you know, they're probablygonna be the exception in their family.
And, and your point about gettingaround other people and networking
and educating yourself, uh, youdon't, you know, I, I think there's
a lot of valuable ways to do that.

(48:26):
One is listening to podcasts,reading or listening to books.
If you haven't started doing that, thatis an extremely free version of educating
yourself, hearing from other people.
And, and something else you saidis, see that other people have
achieved what you are settingout to do, therefore, you have.
Proof of concept that it can workinstead of, you know, accepting what
the world tells most of us, uh, or whatwe are hearing from the world where

(48:47):
it's like, yeah, other people do that.
You don't do that.
You're not an entrepreneur.
You can't start your own business.
Like the world won't believe in you.
So you've gotta believe in your damn self.
And in order to support your, uh,your dreams or your goals, it's
really important to put yourselfaround people that have done it and
that are proof that have done it.
So whatever you're doing, you shouldbe putting yourself in rooms around
people that are better than youat the things that you want to do.

(49:08):
Surround yourself with people that have.
Already done what you aim to doand then you be the dumbest person
in the world, uh, or in the room.
Be the dumbest person in theroom and ask great questions.
Ask great questions from thepeople that have done it.
Educate yourself.
If you're spending time on social mediascrolling and just laughing at dog
videos and shit like that, go followsome meaningful accounts that post
valuable things related to business.
If you're gonna consume content,you should consume very.

(49:32):
Positive educational content thatsupports what you're trying to do.
Go follow business pages, motivationalpages, contractor pages, join the groups,
listen to podcasts, listen to books.
You don't even need a formal mentor.
You know, Eric can be your mentor witha different guest every single week.
There's how many different podcasts?
How many different books Make thosepeople your, your mentors without,
you know, the formality, but it'sgoing to take intention, uh, and

(49:53):
doing exactly what Eric said is.
You've got to find the education outthere because it's all out there.
How many businesses have beenbuilt to think that you aren't
capable of doing it is ludicrous.
You just need to educate yourselfand change your, your old habits
in order to achieve new goals.
Absolutely couldn't, couldn't agree more.
Tyler, look, I, I reallyappreciate you coming on.
I feel like you and I could probably,uh, do this all day, uh, for I

(50:16):
had a drinkable deer with you.
Uh, but look, thank, thank youagain for, you know, for everything
that you've done for being thatinspiration for others out there.
You know, I can tell that, that, thatyou really, truly lead with a purpose.
You wear your heart on your sleeve.
You've, you've done awesome work.
You're, I mean, you're, you're inkitchen behind you is incredible looking.
Thank you.
Uh, but all of the work that I'veseen you do is just really top notch.
So, you know, again, thanks.
Thanks for leading by example, reallysetting the bar as high as you possibly

(50:39):
can for the industry as a whole.
That's what will keep elevating all of us.
I really appreciate you.
Thank you for coming on today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate what you'redoing for the industry as well.
And I, I think, you know, the morepeople that know, uh, you know
that they're, they're still heartin the industry, uh, the better.
So thanks for letting me share mystory and, and thanks for putting
out the education that you are.

(50:59):
Absolutely see you soon.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Builder Stories.
We hope you enjoyed the conversationand gained valuable insights that can
help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone youknow has a story to share, please
contact [e-mail].

(51:21):
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember,every builder has a unique story.
Keep building yours.