November 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Imagine being stuck in the endless grind of a long commute and an unfulfilling job while pregnant. That's where Jamila Soufrant found herself before she stumbled upon the FIRE movement, a discovery that would propel her into a life of financial independence. This episode takes you through Jamila's inspiring journey from her Brooklyn roots to becoming a leading voice in financial empowerment with her platform, podcast, "Journey to Launch" and book, "Your Journey to Financial Freedom." Her story is one of transformation, supported by her family's unwavering belief.
Listeners will gain insight into navigating the stages of financial independence, from the first step of managing expenses to the ultimate goal of complete financial freedom. Personal anecdotes and a carefully designed framework break down what might seem like an overwhelming goal into actionable steps. Whether you're just starting or well on your way, these stages offer a relatable guide, underscoring that every little progress counts. It's never too late to start, and Jamila’s story is a testament to the power of small, consistent steps towards a significant life change.
We also discuss cultural heritage and personal growth. From the deep familial bonds woven during trips to Jamaica to the personal challenges and milestones symbolized by events like the Reggae Marathon, the conversation is deeply reflective. Listeners are encouraged to embrace personal challenges and inner work as a means of achieving both financial independence and personal fulfillment. This dialogue isn't just about money; it's about the holistic journey to a life well-lived, embracing every step, no matter how challenging, with resilience and joy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode
of Carry On Friends, theCaribbean American experience,
and I am excited to have Jamilaon the podcast today.
Jamila, welcome, how are youfeeling?
I'm doing amazing.
Thanks, wonderful.
So before we get started, whydon't you tell our community of
friends a little bit about whoyou are, caribbean country you
(00:24):
represent and the work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Jamila Soufrant and I was born on the beautiful
island of Jamaica, raised inBrooklyn, new York, so I
immigrated here when I waspretty young, under a year old,
and so I guess I'll just startwith what I do and then we can
kind of, I guess, take it backand explore more.
I have a platform, a podcastand a book that talks about
(00:49):
achieving financial independence, that journey to becoming
financially free and using moneyas a tool to live your life,
your best life, whatever thatlooks like, and so my podcast is
called Journey to Launch andthe name of my book is called
your Journey to FinancialFreedom.
And it really all started whenI was on a long commute,
(01:13):
commuting from Brooklyn to NewJersey for those of you who know
kind of the New York, newJersey world and it was a very
long commute and I was in myearly thirties, starting to have
my first child.
So I was pregnant and I waslike I cannot do this.
I cannot do this hour and ahalf commute when I have now
children and being stuck in thiscubicle.
I just didn't want that life,and so that prompted me to
(01:35):
search up things like how toequip my job, how do I retire
early.
I wanted to find a way outbecause I just knew they had to
be a better life out there forme, other than this life in the
car and in the cubicle doingwork I didn't love.
And that's where I stumbledupon the concept of financial
independence the FIRE movementso that stands for Financial
Independence, retire Early wherepeople were retiring early,
(01:58):
quitting their jobs, just savingand investing aggressively so
that they had more control overtheir time.
And that led me down a wholerabbit hole of listening,
learning about my finances,applying what I was learning
while I was working still and onthe side, started my podcast
Journey to Launch, to explorethe journey to financial
independence, what it would looklike for someone like me.
(02:20):
And then, after a few years, ora couple of years actually,
things started to take, take offand I was able to quit my job a
lot earlier than expected,still continuing to do the
podcast.
And then, most recently, mybook came out where I'm
chronicling the steps thatanyone can take who wants to
achieve more freedom in theirlife.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wonderful.
So when you first decided totake this step like what was
that reaction from your veryJamaican family about Jamila you
quit the good, good job way ofno.
I don't understand what's hislike.
What was that reaction and howmuch did that play a role, if
any, in the journey which isalready?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
difficult, you know, thankfully for me.
So I was raised by a single mom, my mom's Jamaican.
She had me when she was prettyyoung, at 20 years old.
So she got pregnant at 19, hadme at 20.
And there's like a whole storybehind her getting her papers
first and her having to leave mebehind in Jamaica because she
had this choice to make.
I talk about this in the bookand on my platform where her
(03:24):
father, my grandfather whowasn't really in her life that
much, but at least filed for herpapers.
But I wasn't a thought.
So when he filed for her it wasjust her and he just came to
the house where she was stayingand said, hey, I got your papers
, and then she had a baby in herhands and he was like wait,
who's this?
And I don't have anything forher.
So you have to make a choiceAre you going to stay here with
(03:45):
this baby or are you going totake the opportunity and go
abroad to New York?
You have some cousins, I thinkhe only gave her a few, like a
week, to decide, or he's pullingthat offer off the table, and
so she decided, very bravely, toleave me behind.
(04:07):
So I'm saying all this to saythat my mom at 20 came to the
United States and we had familyhere and so that was very
helpful in getting us situated,like most immigrants do when
they come here.
But it was really just me andher and they called me like her
pocketbook because she took meeverywhere and she's very mature
and level-headed and ambitiousfor like being so young.
And with that it's just her andme.
And then I do have a littlesister that was born years later
but because of that, you know,I didn't have as much influence
(04:31):
or people that could tell mewhat to do that would impact me
as much as my mom.
So even though I have aunts,uncles, my father wasn't really
in my life but I had his side ofthe family.
They were not the kind ofpeople who could tell me like
don't quit your job or don't dothat.
They didn't have that type ofinfluence and by the time I did
that I was in my thirties, mymid thirties, and I kind of had
(04:53):
this proven track record ofbeing successful.
I had bought a couple ofproperties by then.
I was doing well financially.
So I think by then my familytrusted me and just was like all
right, I know Jamila doesthings out the box, but I
believe that whatever she'sdoing probably is going to work
(05:14):
because of who she is.
So the only person's opinionthat would have mattered to me
at that time would have been myhusband, cause I was married
Like I was grown grown by then.
You know, like I had.
I was married, I was growngrown by.
Then I was married, I waspregnant with my third child by
the time I made the decision toquit my job, and then my mom,
ultimately, and her bravery, herbelief in me, really allowed me
(05:36):
to become who I am today.
So I don't know that trust.
She never questioned it Likewait, what are you doing?
This is a bad mistake thatyou're making.
She just always trusted in meto make the best decisions for
myself, and so, because of that,I had a lot of confidence in
the choices that I was makingand, of course, I made sure I
didn't just quit without a plan.
So I did have some things inplace that, if things didn't
(05:58):
work out on this journey I wastaking, that I can go back and
get a regular job.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that you say that, because this idea of
financial independence is alwayssomething that is appealing and
, given the state of the world,that we're in the economy and
everything, and so what's toolate to be financially
independent, is there such athing in your?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
opinion.
So I think it's reallyimportant to define financial
independence because I knowpeople can talk about it in
different ways and evenfinancial freedom.
So the way I talk about it,when I'm talking about financial
independence, I'm talking aboutcomplete financial independence
from having to work or beingdependent on anyone else but
(06:41):
your own assets.
So eventually you're in thisplace where you can live off of
your assets, whether that's yourinvestment portfolio,
retirement portfolio, maybepassive income but you really
don't have to work.
You're independent.
You don't need a job or man orperson.
You literally can do it andlive on your own.
So that's a very ambitious goalfor a lot of people, right?
(07:02):
Imagine like that's likestandard retirement when we're
thinking about it, like yoursocial security and your
retirement account paying foryour life, but we're trying to
accomplish this a lot earlierthan that standard age.
So that is what I'm referringto in the FIRE movement that
financial independence, retireearly movement.
Because I was so attracted tothis idea of exiting the
workforce, the traditionalworkforce early, and not that I
(07:26):
didn't want to work, I justwanted to choose what I wanted
to do for work and not have tobe so beholden to a paycheck.
So with that, that veryambitious goal of financial
independence for some peoplefeels too big of a goal or
impossible, which I totallyunderstand.
And then there's this conceptof financial freedom, which to
me means like the ability tomake choices.
So maybe you don't necessarilyhave to never work again like
(07:49):
you still need to work, but youcan choose how you work.
Maybe you're working your wayout of debt and that provides
you a bit more freedom.
So my belief is that you canachieve financial freedom along
your path to complete financialindependence.
To get back to your questionabout if it's too late, I think
it depends.
I never think it's too late foranyone to make positive changes
(08:09):
in their finances becauseeverything is relative.
So with this concept offinancial independence, you
typically will want to decide orfigure out what your number is,
how much you'll need to have inan investment portfolio or in
income to pay for your expenses,and so you do.
A calculation is typically 25times your annual expenses, so
(08:31):
that number can be big dependingon how you spend and depending
on your starting point.
So if you're like in yourtwenties, thirties, forties,
fifties, listening to this, youmight be like, well, I don't
have anything saved and I justcalculated I need 2 million, and
so that feels impossible.
But I would say that I thinkthis is a journey anyone can
take, no matter when they start,because what's going to happen
(08:53):
as you really begin to learn theprinciples and get control of
your finances, you will makemore progress than you thought
you could.
And let's just say youcalculated that you needed like
1 million to be able to befinancially independent, and you
wanted to accomplish that in 15years, and you tried with all
your might, and after 15 yearsyou only had 300,000 after
(09:16):
investing and saving.
To me that's still a win,because that's better than the
zero you would have had if youwould not have started.
And so I don't think it's evertoo late.
I think you have to be partrealistic but then part very
ambitious and have that pie inthe sky goal, because with that
it allows you to dream biggerand to do more than you think
you could.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So where are you in your financial freedom, like,
how long did it take you to gethere?
And you know.
The next question is onceyou're financially free, what's
the next goal you set foryourself, for you personally?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What is this magic thing that these people are
talking about?
I don't know.
Is this possible?
And the way I broke it downinto my framework and in my
(10:07):
world is there are five levelsthat you travel on to receive or
to achieve complete financialindependence, and I have them in
stages.
It kind of goes along with thetheme of launching to financial
freedom.
And so the first stage is whatI call the explorer stage.
That's where you are figuringout how to just live and pay for
your living expenses.
You want to get on track.
There are some people wholiterally, when they do all the
(10:28):
payments and expenses, they'rein the negative.
They have to put things oncredit cards to live.
So stage one is getting to aplace where you can at least pay
for your expenses and getstable.
So that's what your goal isthere.
Level two, or stage two, is whatI call the cadet stage.
That's getting out of consumerdebt.
So that is getting out ofcredit card debt, car loans or
(10:49):
any other debt you want to getout of.
I don't typically includestudent loans or mortgages there
, because the balance can be bigand you can typically manage
that.
But getting out of consumerdebt in that cadet stage is
level two.
So once you're out of consumerdebt, you can move on to what I
call level three, stage three,which is the aviator stage.
That's where you can focus nowon investing and saving
(11:11):
aggressively.
And how you do that.
If you want to be superaggressive, it's up to you,
depending on where you are inlife.
But that's where you don't havedebt that you're focusing on as
much.
But you can now divert thingsinto your investment and savings
account.
The fourth stage is called thecommander stage.
That's where you become workflexible.
So it's not that you never haveto work again, but because you
(11:32):
are out of debt, you're saving,invested, you can make choices
about where you work and howmuch you work and you have more
flexibility.
So you're work flexible.
And then the ultimate stage,stage five, is that captain
stage is where you're completelyfinancially independent.
You don't ever have to work ifyou don't want to.
So I found that breaking it downin those stages makes it really
easy for people to see wherethey are on that journey.
(11:54):
And I'm currently in the workflexible stage.
So it's not that I'm completelyfinancially independent.
I could be if we chose to livedifferently and lowered our
expenses by a lot, but we're notwilling to do that as a family
of five living in New York City,and so it's just for me.
I'm in stage four, but I talkabout in my book your Journey to
(12:15):
Financial Freedom and in mywork kind of if you find
yourself well, you'll findyourself most likely in one of
these stages, figuring out likehow long it will take you to get
out of each stage, and that'sgoing to be dependent on a lot
of factors.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I really love that you broke it down that way,
because one, it don't feel likeyou're trying to take a big bite
out of Mount Everest, right,but also it's relatable, right.
So we're not looking at you,jamila, as this person who's
already at the top of themountain.
You're like, nah, I'm stillworking my way there and in a
(12:51):
way that's relatable, becausepeople want to get to the top of
the mountain, but it's likethis idea of making their way
through the levels can feelyou're already saying that
you're a failure, you're notready yet.
So I really liked that you didthat.
So all of this is covered inyour book.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And let's talk about the book.
When did you decide to writethis book?
What is the reception been?
Tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, it was a blog at first in 2016.
And then the podcast, the firstepisode I launched in 2017.
And I released an episode everyweek since the start of the
podcast for years, and that wasmy main form of connecting with
my audience, building myaudience.
I dubbed my audience, or mypeople that follow me or who are
(13:35):
on this journey with me,journeyers, and it was one of
the reasons why I was able toquit my job, because the podcast
was taking off and the businessitself was not earning a lot of
money when I quit my job.
But I saw the potential and Isaw other people who were in the
financial space making money,being entrepreneurs whether they
were writing articles orselling courses or coaching and
(13:58):
so I said, if they can do that,like I can figure out a way to
do that with my platform thatwas growing, or brand
partnerships.
That was another way that I sawpeople making money.
So I did quit my job in 2018,after I gave birth to my third
child and pursued thisentrepreneurship thing that I'm
doing now, and I always knew Iwanted to write a book.
I was always into writing as achild.
(14:20):
I knew that adding a differentvertical of media apart from the
podcast would be importantbecause there's so, as you know,
carrie-anne, there's so manypeople who don't know how to
access a podcast or listen topodcasts.
They're like what, what's apodcast?
And so a book is a really easyway not easy, but it's a very,
it's just a legacy platform thatpeople know.
(14:41):
Like if you write a book and Ialways knew I wanted to go with
a publisher, I didn't want toself-publish because I knew that
would offer me betterdistribution and just better,
you know, just like that namebehind me would be helpful.
And so I was approached,actually, about writing a book,
a couple of times and I wasn'tready yet, or the deal just
(15:01):
didn't seem right and I wantedto go about it where I could get
the best deal for myself.
And I just remember it justfelt right when I was approached
, like the last time I wasapproached, and then I thought,
you know what, let me go throughthe proper steps, let me
research, like how to get agreat agent, how to write a
great book proposal, what's thebest method.
And I did all that and foundthis pathway where I got my book
(15:26):
deal, which, for a first timeauthor, I was told was like very
, you know, amazing, and so Igot the book deal back in.
I think it was 2021 or two.
Now the dates are like I needto like check that off, but the
book came out last year,december 5th 2023.
And so it's been almost.
I don't know when this will air,but you know it's almost a year
since it's been published andthe reception's been good.
(15:48):
You know, I think it's so funny.
I knew this before writing abook.
But books are actually veryhard to sell.
They're like not a high pricepoint, but you, you know, I
think there's a statistic thatmost books don't sell, even the
traditionally published ones.
I think the average book sellslike a thousand copies.
It's not as much as you wouldthink for the low price point,
(16:09):
but I feel like it's been doingreally well.
Of course, it can sell more, soI'm hoping anyone listening to
this feels encouraged andmotivated to check it out.
But I love having this now thatI can say to someone okay, you
have questions?
You really want to understandwhat I'm talking about?
Check the book out, because itlays it out from front to back,
a detailed way in which you canchart your own path to financial
(16:33):
independence.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yes, it makes sense, right?
So all the questions you get,you're like, here's the book.
It know it captures everythingyou know.
Just use the book and not as away to dismiss people.
But it's like, once you knowthe questions that I'm sure
you're getting asked, you'veoutlined them in the book as
well to make it easier forpeople to kind of get the
answers.
But also it frees you up to dothe other thing.
(16:56):
Going back to that freedomaspect of what you're doing,
like how do I help other peoplemore hands-on if that's
something that you do?
So that is amazing.
So let's switch gears a littlebit.
So you came here when you wereone and you know, tell me a
little bit about your connectionto your Jamaican culture.
(17:16):
You know, as you were tellingyour story, a lot of it
resonated with me.
My grandfather filed for my momand the only difference was
when she went to the embassy,they asked her if she had kids
and she's like yes, and theysaid you got to put them on
there.
And so that's how all of usended up in Brooklyn, you know,
on an August day.
But you know this idea offiguring things out and finding
(17:41):
your way and my brother was twoat the time when he moved here.
So you know, I'm curious whathas been your relationship to
culture?
How did you remain connected?
I'm sure your mom has arelationship, but for you, what
was that like, given that youleft Jamaica at a younger age?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So talk to me about that like given that you left
Jamaica at a younger age.
So talk to me about that.
You know I was very blessedwith my family.
In terms of so my mom's side offamilies they're not large like
as my father's side, but whatwas very helpful was that, even
though my father wasn't activelyin my life, his side of the
family embraced me with openarms, and my mom was.
(18:18):
I don't know cause, I don't knowif I would do this, but she was
gracious enough to allow me tostill, like, have that deep
connection with them and send meto Jamaica, Like.
So when I went to Jamaica, shewould send me there for a number
of reasons.
So, just financially, it wascheaper to send me to Jamaica
with some money versus puttingme in camp and then I could be
with my family, and so there wasthat reason.
But then it was also she didlike she I don't know she's just
(18:46):
amazing because she wanted meto have a connection with my
father's side of the family,Like, even though things didn't
work out between her and myfather and he wasn't active the
way he should have been.
It's like she just was verymature about everything.
And so my father's side of thefamily was amazing because I
would like split the summer upwith my mother's side of the
family in Montego Bay and StJames and then I would like
spend the time then with myfather's side Let me see if I
(19:06):
get this right In Falmouth.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Falmouth yes, and you know you're.
I mean, I'm like I'm trying tofind words because I am from
Montego Bay.
I grew up there, went to highschool and everything, so this
is very interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
So I remember I was born inMontego Bay Hospital, but my
mother's side of the family werelike in Irwin I believe that's
the area and then my father'sside was just a little bit
further in Falmouth, like overthere?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, falmouth, it's in Chilani, but it's further the
other way, right?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Like I guess they built a big port now where
there's cruise ships, and so Iwould be sent there for like
almost every summer, I believe,and up until a certain point.
So I got to know my father'sside of the family really well
and all my siblings.
So my father, he's aRossifarian, he had a lot of
kids and, luckily for them,everyone was like close and so I
was like the sister that livedafar in and I'd come down.
(20:01):
They would accept me and loveme.
We were young, you know likesix, seven, eight, and they were
all kind of like the same age,and so I developed really deep
bonds with, like my father's momand dad, all my aunts on that
side, my cousins, and then Ijust have very fond memories of
being able to go to Jamaica andI was traveling by myself, like
I was an unaccompanied minor.
So I remember having thatexperience and so that was how I
(20:25):
like developed the deepconnection with Jamaica and my
siblings, which was veryimportant, because maybe we'll
get to it later.
But what's happened now is a lotof the older people where you
know my grandmother andgrandfather.
They passed away on my mother'sside of the family, like the
older people I used to stay with.
You know they have since passedand so now my connection to
Jamaica are my siblings that Ihave this deep connection with,
(20:47):
and so this past summer I wasable to go down with my husband
and my three kids and my othersisters who are kind of spread
out in Canada, and we all wentto my one sister in Kingston and
stayed with her, and so thatwas the first time my kids all
of them got to be in Jamaica andwe experienced the tourist side
.
But then we stayed with mysister and got the real Jamaica
(21:14):
and investment in terms of mymom being able to trust, to send
me down by myself and to justknow that I'd be OK.
But like everything did turnout OK.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love it.
I just find it fascinating, asan aside, that anytime I hear
somebody come from Moby, I'mlike, ah, because you know,
growing up, everybody alwayscome from where Kingston.
No one comes from anywhere else.
So you know, this is what Ilove about doing Carry On
(21:46):
Friends, like the immigrationstories of everyone, finding the
connectivity there and hearingthe different stories.
One story that this novel thatcame out, how to Save Babylon oh
, I'm reading that now Okay,okay, great.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I'm reading that now I'm going to be on a panel again
.
I don't know when this comesout, but I was asked to be a
guest at the well-read blackgirl festival and she's also
going to be there, which was andlike she's also from Montego
Bay.
Yeah, similar community that Igrew up Right and because of the
roster, so Rastafarianupbringing I resonate with that
(22:25):
a lot, even though I wasn'traised in that, but a lot of my
siblings were, and so there's alot there that it's just really
interesting that I'm justexcited about pursuing and
learning more about.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So talk to me about, specifically, the relationship
with your father and yoursiblings and him being a
Rastafarian and you live afarand you go there Like what was
that culture experience?
Because that is very different.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat and I guess going your
relationship with your fathereven though I guess you stayed
with your grandparents but likewhat was that relationship like?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So he wasn't active in my life.
I knew him, he knew of me butlike when I went to Jamaica, you
know he if he was around hewould try to like maybe see me.
But he also had a lot of otherkids that lived in Jamaica that
he was also trying to be therefor.
But I think his position in thecommunity, so apparently he was
(23:14):
very prominent in theRastafarian community, the
Rastafarian community, and hisname was Issa J Jr Manning and
he was all he's just all overthe place, like in terms of
trying to actually lead a lot ofinitiatives.
From what I'm learning now I'mtrying to dive actually deeper
into his story to learn moreabout him and his work.
But there's so much that my momsays I'm like him in a lot of
(23:35):
ways.
He was on the radio, he wrotebooks.
Lot of ways.
He was on the radio, he wrotebooks, he spoke a lot and was a
pillar in that community.
So a lot of that she says shefeels like I get from him and so
it's interesting because I justrealized early on that and I
just made this connectionbecause there were a couple of
men in my life this way and it'snot to absolve them of
(23:56):
responsibility, but they seem tohave had great relationships
with the community and everyoneelse.
Like if you spoke to themthey'd be like, oh my gosh, they
were like such great men in thecommunity and it is so much and
I'm like, but why weren't theylike that with their own
children?
Like I don't understand.
And so, you know, I just alwaystook it as even though I felt
like I always deserved like afather figure and someone like
that in my life that maybe, likehis, his mission or what he
(24:19):
needed to do was different andbigger, not than me, but just
for his community, whatever thatwas.
And so I I don't know, I didn'tgrow up with a grudge against
him because I was happy that Iat least knew my father's side
of the family and they reallyaccepted me with open arms.
You know I like my siblings,like my siblings are all amazing
and you know that was reallyhelpful to like come to terms
(24:40):
with like that missingconnection.
And he's since passed away andso with that, you know, being
able to connect and have thatconnection still with my
siblings is a big deal.
But just with Jamaica itself, Ijust feel like if it weren't
for going all those summers backand having you know, being able
to, I know if I go to Kingstonor if I go to Jamaica, you know,
(25:01):
and I used to go by myself whenI got a little bit older to see
my sister and it was just usand to know that I have that
connection just feels really,really important.
And so it's like now I'm justlike I have to be able to keep
that up and hopefully mychildren with their cousins
create that bond too.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, sorry to hear about your dad's passing.
There was something else as youwere talking about.
You know him having thatrelationship with the community
and everyone looking up to himand you're like, but what about
me?
I'm your daughter.
That felt literally like a lineout of the novel Hurricane
Summer where.
Asha.
She's from Canada.
(25:39):
Her father's in Jamaica.
He's a Rasta, but he's like hehas a whole farm, he's feeding
the community and she's like butwe're your kids and we barely
see you and you don't come backto Canada Like that's another
book that I feel like you could.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I'm going to desk, I wrote it down, I'm going to
check that out because, and youknow, part of me also felt like
his children that lived inJamaica, you know, didn't always
also get his attention and Ilived all the.
So I'm just like, and I was thesecond oldest you know there's a
lot of us, but I was the secondoldest and I felt like, you
know, thank goodness I was, youknow, I had a privilege of being
(26:17):
able to grow up in America andso I just felt like if he had
any time and attention and loveto give, like I'd rather him
have given that to my siblings,because, again, I'm not saying I
didn't need a father in my life, but my mom was such a force
that, like like it was enoughfor me.
If anything, I'm just like allright if you had to choose or
you couldn't spread it so thin,like give it to them because,
(26:39):
like, literally, you're inJamaica with them.
But yeah, that was really justlike important for me to, which
is why I want to learn moreabout, like his life and what he
was able to do, because I dofeel like that's an experience
for a lot of women and even boys, you know, growing up.
But I just feel like as,whether it's Caribbean or
(26:59):
Jamaican, like there's thatstereotype of, you know, the
father's not being as hands-onor around, and again, I know
it's a stereotype and there area lot of great Jamaican fathers
out there, but it was just myexperience that it just felt
like, hmm, like I want toexplore that more.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know, even when you
have somewhat of a relationship.
When my father passed away twoyears ago, I remember feeling
like I am an adult in my 40s andI'm going through these motions
because my dad passed away.
And you know, like thatconnection, you share that DNA
(27:38):
there's always something youwant more.
Why did we drift away a littlebit as I got older and had more
kids?
You know a lot of things and soI think that this journey feels
natural and it's also adiscovery of part of yourself,
like you know you as a parent.
You know like you see your kidsrunning around and you're like,
yeah, they got that from me.
(27:59):
I'm not even going to sayanything.
Like they got that from me.
Like when the husband look atyou and be like, are you that?
And you'll be like I know.
Right, you kind of want to knowwho's this other person that
contributed so much to who I amor I'm not.
You know it's, it's part ofthat discovery.
That's like you, you're moreaware of your sense of self and
(28:23):
I remember that very clearly.
When my father left, like whoam I now that he's not here,
because for so long I was hisgirl, you know and what happens.
you know, like there was just alot.
So I absolutely feel the needto dive deeper there and learn
more, and I'm excited to findout what you discover or uncover
(28:44):
in the process.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, yeah, I want to take this project on.
I know what it's going touncover, but like I'm excited
about it and one of theinteresting things, I just
always remember this because mybirthday is February 6th, which
is the same as Bob Marley'sbirthday, which, you know, for
us Safarians and just Jamaica asa whole, like no, everyone
knows that February 6th.
So I just used to remember as achild, like there's no way, like
how could he forget?
(29:06):
Like his daughter is born onFebruary 6th, like why doesn't
he at least call me on mybirthday?
And so there's a lot of thatwhich I find so intriguing and
interesting, because as a parentnow, as someone who chose you
know what I think is a greathusband and father, I'm just
like I don't understand, likehow you could be that way but
then be who you were in thecommunity, and so that's that
(29:28):
kind of stuff.
Like you said, I think it'sgoing to be a discovery of
deeper into, maybe, like myhistory, and then you know,
hopefully, maybe, of who I amnow right, the decisions I make
and why I make them, and allthose things.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for you on that one.
I really am All right.
So let's talk about this thingthat you're doing in a by the
time.
This is going to come up beforethe time it happens, and so you
are doing the Reagan marathon,and so tell me why you decide to
do this.
I mean, I love running, but letme tell you a story.
The other day, like right now,I'm in physical therapy because
(30:06):
in my mind, I'm still fast and Iwas going hard running and my
body was like my girl breaksyourself and so my knee is a
little off because I didn'tstretch as much as I used to.
Because in my mind I'm like Idid my regular stretch, I'm good
, and the PT was like you needto stretch longer than you
normally would.
So tell me what inspired you todo this.
(30:27):
I know deciding to run amarathon is like it's huge, so
walk me through your decision todo this at this point in your
life.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, so I've always been active.
I used to do gymnastics as a,you know, in my teenage years my
young girl years and teenageyears and like I did CrossFit, I
did like all the things I wasinto moving my body.
And then when I had kids, likethings changed, my body changed
and so I was just like not asactive.
(30:57):
And I remember, with thepandemic hit you know all the
gyms.
I was going to the gym beforethe pandemic but the pandemic
hit and I was like wow, like Iwant to stay active.
And so I picked up walking.
And my husband, he was, he'svery fit and active, so he used
to run and I was like I'm notrunning, like I always thought,
like I hate, like what is thepoint?
This looks very miserable, whywould I run?
And so he was running, it couldgo to the park during COVID and
(31:21):
I started to kind of like dolike run one lap and then run
like you know, one fourth of amile, like very slow and hated
it.
And then one day I decided tolike push myself and do a mile.
And the problem with me is,once I do something which is why
I don't like necessarily doingthings I know how to do.
It's like I can't go back, likenow I know I know how to do
this.
(31:41):
It can't be a conscious choicenot to do a little bit more.
And so I eventually worked myway up to running three miles,
which was a lot for me.
Up until last year, three mileswas my limit.
Once I heard the thing saythree miles, I stopped.
I was like, good, I'm done,never again.
But then I'll do it again,because I did like the feeling
afterwards and it's just veryeffective in terms of working
(32:02):
out.
And I remember the opportunitywith the reggae marathon came up
and I wanted to do this acouple of years ago but it just
never worked out.
And this year, finally, ithappened, where it just the
stars aligned and I'm able to go.
And so I was so excited becauseI'm like, okay, and they have
different levels.
I think they have the halfmarathon, then they have, I
(32:23):
think, the 10K and 5K.
And so I have a friend who alsostarted running during the
pandemic and she's trying to runfurther.
Like she's like I want to do amarathon.
I'm like I'm not training for amarathon, I'm just doing my
three miles.
And I remember when thisopportunity came I was like, hmm
, this sounds really I don'tknow.
This sounds like something Ineed to do because, one, the
timing of it was going to be theyear anniversary of my book
(32:45):
coming out.
Like, literally, it's like theyear to the date, almost, that
the book comes out, that I'mrunning this marathon.
It's in my home Island ofJamaica and I can work my way up
to pushing myself, setting thisgoal of running the full half
marathon, which is 13 miles.
And so once I felt like I'm oneof those people where I do see
opportunity and blessings and Itry to see them in a lot of
(33:07):
things, and I just thought thisis here for a reason, this
opportunity is here at thisexact moment for a reason.
Let me do this.
And so me signing up isstretching me me because, again,
I'm usually like, not someonewho would like want to run
longer miles or distances, butI'm really excited about this
because of all that itrepresents, like the year
(33:28):
anniversary of the book release,pushing myself in this way.
I'm in my early forties, so youknow, I'm not like my my bones.
I'm like listening to youtalking about stretching.
I'm like Jamila, you betterstretch a bit more Cause you
don't be shortcutting it, butI'm excited just because it just
feels very, uh, important.
And me now, with this discoveryof me wanting to learn more
(33:49):
about my father, like it allfeels like a homecoming of sorts
and a journey deeper into mylife.
Like it just it just feels verybig and so that I should do
this and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Wonderful.
I mean, one day I will stretchmyself, but once the knee fix,
because when I tell you like Ican't even go up steps, you know
, and I knew that I wasoverdoing it, but in my mind I
was like I could do this.
But what I love about yourstory is this idea that it's
really never too late.
(34:20):
Right, because you talk aboutthe financial freedom.
Here we are doing a marathon,right?
You said you're in your early40s.
If you really want to trysomething, commit to something,
push yourself.
It's never really too late.
The pushing of yourself isreally you, a contract between
(34:41):
you and yourself and not anyoneelse.
Right, and really makingadjustments.
Right, and I think that's whatI had to learn through this
whole injury thing.
You are pushing yourself andthat's great.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
But pushing yourself also means knowing when you
can't push that far Right anddialing it back a little bit it
(35:19):
truly is an individual journeyand it's great to have like
champions and cheerleaders in agroup to help you like whether
that's a running group or friend, just like in your finances,
like someone you can talk toabout stuff in a community, but
really it's you and everyone'ssituation is different, like
everyone's body is different,everyone's time commitments,
what they can do is different,your age, all these things are
going to be different.
About how you can applyyourself to running or even your
(35:40):
finances, like your startingpoint, how much you make, your
expenses, the stage of lifeyou're in I know pre-kids my
finances and my goals lookdifferent than they do now.
Someone who's single journeywas as a single parent is going
to look totally different than atwo income household.
Right, like there's so manythings that we can't compare
(36:01):
what we're going through toother people.
We can have best practices andthings that can be helpful, but
just like running, every timeI'm running it's like it's
really, it's a runningmeditation.
It's me against myself, Like doyou want to stop, like this
feels hard.
And same thing whether it'sbusiness, going to school,
finances.
You're going to come across allthis mindset and habit work
(36:23):
that you have to do, which is abig part of achieving any goal.
Yes, your body has to playalong and agree, right, like
your body can't do it, just likeyour finances, like you know,
it's but so much if you can do,if you're not earning enough
money.
But there is all this inner workthat happens on any journey you
take.
That, to me, is the mostimportant, because I do think
(36:44):
it's a transferable skill, likeset, that you can take and apply
it to anything, and so I justthink this journey that I'm on,
in different aspects that we'reall on, is so important and no
matter the age or like yourcircumstances.
You know, even with the running, like my goal is not to run
really that much faster, I justwant to make sure that I can
(37:06):
like finish it and like do it ina time that feels good, just
like your finances, like, yeah,be great to not have to work in
two years, but that might not berealistic.
So what does it look like tohave an enjoyable journey, just
like?
What does it look like to havean enjoyable run and not look at
the next person who's goinglike six minutes per mile right
or achieving and paying offtheir debt quicker than you are?
(37:27):
What works for you and what areyou willing to put into it to
get it done?
Sacrifice to get it done or notsacrifice because you're like
not doing it today.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So I love that you've put that together because, as
someone who loves to run, itmakes a lot of sense, because I
got this injury because I wascomparing to my younger self
that ran a certain mile by acertain time and I was trying to
make that and I had to now dothat self-talk and say, okay,
(37:57):
now you have to, you know,rethink this.
You know, maybe you could havegone really low on them squats.
You can't go all the way thatlow, you know.
But again, it's the mindset, isa talk track in your mind and
interrupting some of that talktrack to meet the goals.
So I'm waiting to see all thepictures of you running.
I'm waiting to see all thepictures of you running.
(38:17):
I'm excited for you and thisjourney because, again, it's all
about.
I think what I'm getting fromyou is that we have families and
we have spouses and kids, butthere's this element of you that
you have to make sure ishealthy for all those people,
whether it's mentally,physically or financially to be
(38:40):
present and enjoy the peoplethat you're with.
And so that's one of my bigtakeaways from this right,
because even with your family,your sisters, right, you still
need to be in a place wherefamily of five flying to Jamaica
is not cheap.
So you need to be in a place.
You understand what I'm sayingand so I just love this story
(39:01):
and congratulations on the book,and I'll make sure I tell
people that listen.
If you want to do this, Iprobably need to share it with
my nephew because I've beentrying to tell him.
To save your money, I mighttell him is it available in
audio book, because I listen toaudio books.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So it is available everywhere Audiobook, everywhere
books are sold.
So if you go on Amazon, you goto it's in airports it's in
Barnes Noble.
So my website to get the bookor to check it out and see where
you can buy ityourjourneytofinancialfreedomcom
.
That's the book website.
It will show all the links togo to Amazon Barnes Noble Target
(39:38):
.
It's all there.
And then you can also get itfrom your local bookstores.
Support your local bookstores.
And my podcast Journey toLaunch you can find on Apple
Podcasts and all those places.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Wonderful Jamila, thank you so much for being on
the podcast.
I loved your story and I knowthe listeners will enjoy it as
well.
And any last words before wesay goodbye?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Thank you for having me on the show.
I feel like you know so manyyears now I've been talking
about.
Well, when I get interviewed byother people, it's usually
about finances, which is fine.
You know that's my niche.
But I think it's really nicenow to like start talking about
something like a little bitdifferent and like this other
side that I'm looking at, orthis creative side, or pursuing
now like deeper into my roots.
So thank you for theopportunity to kind of explore
(40:23):
that more and talk some of thisthrough.
But I really do want toencourage anyone listening that
it sounds very cliche and corny,but literally this is
everything.
You're on the journey, whetheryou know it or not, because the
time is going to pass anyway,god willing that we're here 10,
15, 20 years from now.
And so I know that when itcomes to finances, even health,
(40:45):
that if you're starting from aplace where you don't feel like
getting to your goal feels veryhard and far away, that it
sometimes feels, oh, it's betterjust not to start or to ignore
it, and I understand that.
But I think you know littlesteps.
Being honest with yourself aboutwhat you can tolerate, what
you're not willing to tolerate,is important to creating action
(41:08):
and, you know, understanding whymaybe there's no movement or
you feel that you can't dosomething is important, like
working on that.
That inner work is, to me, moreimportant than the external work
that we want to do.
The inner work allows us to dothe external work, and so that's
not always easy, but that youknow.
I do believe that many people,if we're talking about finances,
can move through those stagesthat I talked about earlier,
(41:30):
like get to a better stage andbe happier with their life.
And you don't have to have amillion dollars, you don't have
to be out of debt completely,but you can move through the
stages at your own pace and havea better life.
And then the same thing on thewhether it's health or fitness
side that I do feel like findingthings that you're happy about,
not always related to money orthat challenge.
(41:50):
You are important so that youcan enjoy this path, this life
that we live in.
So don't be afraid to start andtake small steps.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That is beautiful and on that note, as I love to say
at the end of every episode walkgood.
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode
of Carry On Friends, theCaribbean American experience,
and I am excited to have Jamilaon the podcast today.
Jamila, welcome, how are youfeeling?
I'm doing amazing.
Thanks, wonderful.
So before we get started, whydon't you tell our community of
friends a little bit about whoyou are, caribbean country you
(00:24):
represent and the work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Jamila Soufrant and I was born on the beautiful
island of Jamaica, raised inBrooklyn, new York, so I
immigrated here when I waspretty young, under a year old,
and so I guess I'll just startwith what I do and then we can
kind of, I guess, take it backand explore more.
I have a platform, a podcastand a book that talks about
(00:49):
achieving financial independence, that journey to becoming
financially free and using moneyas a tool to live your life,
your best life, whatever thatlooks like, and so my podcast is
called Journey to Launch andthe name of my book is called
your Journey to FinancialFreedom.
And it really all started whenI was on a long commute,
(01:13):
commuting from Brooklyn to NewJersey for those of you who know
kind of the New York, newJersey world and it was a very
long commute and I was in myearly thirties, starting to have
my first child.
So I was pregnant and I waslike I cannot do this.
I cannot do this hour and ahalf commute when I have now
children and being stuck in thiscubicle.
I just didn't want that life,and so that prompted me to
(01:35):
search up things like how toequip my job, how do I retire
early.
I wanted to find a way outbecause I just knew they had to
be a better life out there forme, other than this life in the
car and in the cubicle doingwork I didn't love.
And that's where I stumbledupon the concept of financial
independence the FIRE movementso that stands for Financial
Independence, retire Early wherepeople were retiring early,
(01:58):
quitting their jobs, just savingand investing aggressively so
that they had more control overtheir time.
And that led me down a wholerabbit hole of listening,
learning about my finances,applying what I was learning
while I was working still and onthe side, started my podcast
Journey to Launch, to explorethe journey to financial
independence, what it would looklike for someone like me.
(02:20):
And then, after a few years, ora couple of years actually,
things started to take, take offand I was able to quit my job a
lot earlier than expected,still continuing to do the
podcast.
And then, most recently, mybook came out where I'm
chronicling the steps thatanyone can take who wants to
achieve more freedom in theirlife.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wonderful.
So when you first decided totake this step like what was
that reaction from your veryJamaican family about Jamila you
quit the good, good job way ofno.
I don't understand what's hislike.
What was that reaction and howmuch did that play a role, if
any, in the journey which isalready?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
difficult, you know, thankfully for me.
So I was raised by a single mom, my mom's Jamaican.
She had me when she was prettyyoung, at 20 years old.
So she got pregnant at 19, hadme at 20.
And there's like a whole storybehind her getting her papers
first and her having to leave mebehind in Jamaica because she
had this choice to make.
I talk about this in the bookand on my platform where her
(03:24):
father, my grandfather whowasn't really in her life that
much, but at least filed for herpapers.
But I wasn't a thought.
So when he filed for her it wasjust her and he just came to
the house where she was stayingand said, hey, I got your papers
, and then she had a baby in herhands and he was like wait,
who's this?
And I don't have anything forher.
So you have to make a choiceAre you going to stay here with
(03:45):
this baby or are you going totake the opportunity and go
abroad to New York?
You have some cousins, I thinkhe only gave her a few, like a
week, to decide, or he's pullingthat offer off the table, and
so she decided, very bravely, toleave me behind.
(04:07):
So I'm saying all this to saythat my mom at 20 came to the
United States and we had familyhere and so that was very
helpful in getting us situated,like most immigrants do when
they come here.
But it was really just me andher and they called me like her
pocketbook because she took meeverywhere and she's very mature
and level-headed and ambitiousfor like being so young.
And with that it's just her andme.
And then I do have a littlesister that was born years later
but because of that, you know,I didn't have as much influence
(04:31):
or people that could tell mewhat to do that would impact me
as much as my mom.
So even though I have aunts,uncles, my father wasn't really
in my life but I had his side ofthe family.
They were not the kind ofpeople who could tell me like
don't quit your job or don't dothat.
They didn't have that type ofinfluence and by the time I did
that I was in my thirties, mymid thirties, and I kind of had
(04:53):
this proven track record ofbeing successful.
I had bought a couple ofproperties by then.
I was doing well financially.
So I think by then my familytrusted me and just was like all
right, I know Jamila doesthings out the box, but I
believe that whatever she'sdoing probably is going to work
(05:14):
because of who she is.
So the only person's opinionthat would have mattered to me
at that time would have been myhusband, cause I was married
Like I was grown grown by then.
You know, like I had.
I was married, I was growngrown by.
Then I was married, I waspregnant with my third child by
the time I made the decision toquit my job, and then my mom,
ultimately, and her bravery, herbelief in me, really allowed me
(05:36):
to become who I am today.
So I don't know that trust.
She never questioned it Likewait, what are you doing?
This is a bad mistake thatyou're making.
She just always trusted in meto make the best decisions for
myself, and so, because of that,I had a lot of confidence in
the choices that I was makingand, of course, I made sure I
didn't just quit without a plan.
So I did have some things inplace that, if things didn't
(05:58):
work out on this journey I wastaking, that I can go back and
get a regular job.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that you say that, because this idea of
financial independence is alwayssomething that is appealing and
, given the state of the world,that we're in the economy and
everything, and so what's toolate to be financially
independent, is there such athing in your?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
opinion.
So I think it's reallyimportant to define financial
independence because I knowpeople can talk about it in
different ways and evenfinancial freedom.
So the way I talk about it,when I'm talking about financial
independence, I'm talking aboutcomplete financial independence
from having to work or beingdependent on anyone else but
(06:41):
your own assets.
So eventually you're in thisplace where you can live off of
your assets, whether that's yourinvestment portfolio,
retirement portfolio, maybepassive income but you really
don't have to work.
You're independent.
You don't need a job or man orperson.
You literally can do it andlive on your own.
So that's a very ambitious goalfor a lot of people, right?
(07:02):
Imagine like that's likestandard retirement when we're
thinking about it, like yoursocial security and your
retirement account paying foryour life, but we're trying to
accomplish this a lot earlierthan that standard age.
So that is what I'm referringto in the FIRE movement that
financial independence, retireearly movement.
Because I was so attracted tothis idea of exiting the
workforce, the traditionalworkforce early, and not that I
(07:26):
didn't want to work, I justwanted to choose what I wanted
to do for work and not have tobe so beholden to a paycheck.
So with that, that veryambitious goal of financial
independence for some peoplefeels too big of a goal or
impossible, which I totallyunderstand.
And then there's this conceptof financial freedom, which to
me means like the ability tomake choices.
So maybe you don't necessarilyhave to never work again like
(07:49):
you still need to work, but youcan choose how you work.
Maybe you're working your wayout of debt and that provides
you a bit more freedom.
So my belief is that you canachieve financial freedom along
your path to complete financialindependence.
To get back to your questionabout if it's too late, I think
it depends.
I never think it's too late foranyone to make positive changes
(08:09):
in their finances becauseeverything is relative.
So with this concept offinancial independence, you
typically will want to decide orfigure out what your number is,
how much you'll need to have inan investment portfolio or in
income to pay for your expenses,and so you do.
A calculation is typically 25times your annual expenses, so
(08:31):
that number can be big dependingon how you spend and depending
on your starting point.
So if you're like in yourtwenties, thirties, forties,
fifties, listening to this, youmight be like, well, I don't
have anything saved and I justcalculated I need 2 million, and
so that feels impossible.
But I would say that I thinkthis is a journey anyone can
take, no matter when they start,because what's going to happen
(08:53):
as you really begin to learn theprinciples and get control of
your finances, you will makemore progress than you thought
you could.
And let's just say youcalculated that you needed like
1 million to be able to befinancially independent, and you
wanted to accomplish that in 15years, and you tried with all
your might, and after 15 yearsyou only had 300,000 after
(09:16):
investing and saving.
To me that's still a win,because that's better than the
zero you would have had if youwould not have started.
And so I don't think it's evertoo late.
I think you have to be partrealistic but then part very
ambitious and have that pie inthe sky goal, because with that
it allows you to dream biggerand to do more than you think
you could.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So where are you in your financial freedom, like,
how long did it take you to gethere?
And you know.
The next question is onceyou're financially free, what's
the next goal you set foryourself, for you personally?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What is this magic thing that these people are
talking about?
I don't know.
Is this possible?
And the way I broke it downinto my framework and in my
(10:07):
world is there are five levelsthat you travel on to receive or
to achieve complete financialindependence, and I have them in
stages.
It kind of goes along with thetheme of launching to financial
freedom.
And so the first stage is whatI call the explorer stage.
That's where you are figuringout how to just live and pay for
your living expenses.
You want to get on track.
There are some people wholiterally, when they do all the
(10:28):
payments and expenses, they'rein the negative.
They have to put things oncredit cards to live.
So stage one is getting to aplace where you can at least pay
for your expenses and getstable.
So that's what your goal isthere.
Level two, or stage two, is whatI call the cadet stage.
That's getting out of consumerdebt.
So that is getting out ofcredit card debt, car loans or
(10:49):
any other debt you want to getout of.
I don't typically includestudent loans or mortgages there
, because the balance can be bigand you can typically manage
that.
But getting out of consumerdebt in that cadet stage is
level two.
So once you're out of consumerdebt, you can move on to what I
call level three, stage three,which is the aviator stage.
That's where you can focus nowon investing and saving
(11:11):
aggressively.
And how you do that.
If you want to be superaggressive, it's up to you,
depending on where you are inlife.
But that's where you don't havedebt that you're focusing on as
much.
But you can now divert thingsinto your investment and savings
account.
The fourth stage is called thecommander stage.
That's where you become workflexible.
So it's not that you never haveto work again, but because you
(11:32):
are out of debt, you're saving,invested, you can make choices
about where you work and howmuch you work and you have more
flexibility.
So you're work flexible.
And then the ultimate stage,stage five, is that captain
stage is where you're completelyfinancially independent.
You don't ever have to work ifyou don't want to.
So I found that breaking it downin those stages makes it really
easy for people to see wherethey are on that journey.
(11:54):
And I'm currently in the workflexible stage.
So it's not that I'm completelyfinancially independent.
I could be if we chose to livedifferently and lowered our
expenses by a lot, but we're notwilling to do that as a family
of five living in New York City,and so it's just for me.
I'm in stage four, but I talkabout in my book your Journey to
(12:15):
Financial Freedom and in mywork kind of if you find
yourself well, you'll findyourself most likely in one of
these stages, figuring out likehow long it will take you to get
out of each stage, and that'sgoing to be dependent on a lot
of factors.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I really love that you broke it down that way,
because one, it don't feel likeyou're trying to take a big bite
out of Mount Everest, right,but also it's relatable, right.
So we're not looking at you,jamila, as this person who's
already at the top of themountain.
You're like, nah, I'm stillworking my way there and in a
(12:51):
way that's relatable, becausepeople want to get to the top of
the mountain, but it's likethis idea of making their way
through the levels can feelyou're already saying that
you're a failure, you're notready yet.
So I really liked that you didthat.
So all of this is covered inyour book.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And let's talk about the book.
When did you decide to writethis book?
What is the reception been?
Tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, it was a blog at first in 2016.
And then the podcast, the firstepisode I launched in 2017.
And I released an episode everyweek since the start of the
podcast for years, and that wasmy main form of connecting with
my audience, building myaudience.
I dubbed my audience, or mypeople that follow me or who are
(13:35):
on this journey with me,journeyers, and it was one of
the reasons why I was able toquit my job, because the podcast
was taking off and the businessitself was not earning a lot of
money when I quit my job.
But I saw the potential and Isaw other people who were in the
financial space making money,being entrepreneurs whether they
were writing articles orselling courses or coaching and
(13:58):
so I said, if they can do that,like I can figure out a way to
do that with my platform thatwas growing, or brand
partnerships.
That was another way that I sawpeople making money.
So I did quit my job in 2018,after I gave birth to my third
child and pursued thisentrepreneurship thing that I'm
doing now, and I always knew Iwanted to write a book.
I was always into writing as achild.
(14:20):
I knew that adding a differentvertical of media apart from the
podcast would be importantbecause there's so, as you know,
carrie-anne, there's so manypeople who don't know how to
access a podcast or listen topodcasts.
They're like what, what's apodcast?
And so a book is a really easyway not easy, but it's a very,
it's just a legacy platform thatpeople know.
(14:41):
Like if you write a book and Ialways knew I wanted to go with
a publisher, I didn't want toself-publish because I knew that
would offer me betterdistribution and just better,
you know, just like that namebehind me would be helpful.
And so I was approached,actually, about writing a book,
a couple of times and I wasn'tready yet, or the deal just
(15:01):
didn't seem right and I wantedto go about it where I could get
the best deal for myself.
And I just remember it justfelt right when I was approached
, like the last time I wasapproached, and then I thought,
you know what, let me go throughthe proper steps, let me
research, like how to get agreat agent, how to write a
great book proposal, what's thebest method.
And I did all that and foundthis pathway where I got my book
(15:26):
deal, which, for a first timeauthor, I was told was like very
, you know, amazing, and so Igot the book deal back in.
I think it was 2021 or two.
Now the dates are like I needto like check that off, but the
book came out last year,december 5th 2023.
And so it's been almost.
I don't know when this will air,but you know it's almost a year
since it's been published andthe reception's been good.
(15:48):
You know, I think it's so funny.
I knew this before writing abook.
But books are actually veryhard to sell.
They're like not a high pricepoint, but you, you know, I
think there's a statistic thatmost books don't sell, even the
traditionally published ones.
I think the average book sellslike a thousand copies.
It's not as much as you wouldthink for the low price point,
(16:09):
but I feel like it's been doingreally well.
Of course, it can sell more, soI'm hoping anyone listening to
this feels encouraged andmotivated to check it out.
But I love having this now thatI can say to someone okay, you
have questions?
You really want to understandwhat I'm talking about?
Check the book out, because itlays it out from front to back,
a detailed way in which you canchart your own path to financial
(16:33):
independence.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yes, it makes sense, right?
So all the questions you get,you're like, here's the book.
It know it captures everythingyou know.
Just use the book and not as away to dismiss people.
But it's like, once you knowthe questions that I'm sure
you're getting asked, you'veoutlined them in the book as
well to make it easier forpeople to kind of get the
answers.
But also it frees you up to dothe other thing.
(16:56):
Going back to that freedomaspect of what you're doing,
like how do I help other peoplemore hands-on if that's
something that you do?
So that is amazing.
So let's switch gears a littlebit.
So you came here when you wereone and you know, tell me a
little bit about your connectionto your Jamaican culture.
(17:16):
You know, as you were tellingyour story, a lot of it
resonated with me.
My grandfather filed for my momand the only difference was
when she went to the embassy,they asked her if she had kids
and she's like yes, and theysaid you got to put them on
there.
And so that's how all of usended up in Brooklyn, you know,
on an August day.
But you know this idea offiguring things out and finding
(17:41):
your way and my brother was twoat the time when he moved here.
So you know, I'm curious whathas been your relationship to
culture?
How did you remain connected?
I'm sure your mom has arelationship, but for you, what
was that like, given that youleft Jamaica at a younger age?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So talk to me about that like given that you left
Jamaica at a younger age.
So talk to me about that.
You know I was very blessedwith my family.
In terms of so my mom's side offamilies they're not large like
as my father's side, but whatwas very helpful was that, even
though my father wasn't activelyin my life, his side of the
family embraced me with openarms, and my mom was.
(18:18):
I don't know cause, I don't knowif I would do this, but she was
gracious enough to allow me tostill, like, have that deep
connection with them and send meto Jamaica, Like.
So when I went to Jamaica, shewould send me there for a number
of reasons.
So, just financially, it wascheaper to send me to Jamaica
with some money versus puttingme in camp and then I could be
with my family, and so there wasthat reason.
But then it was also she didlike she I don't know she's just
(18:46):
amazing because she wanted meto have a connection with my
father's side of the family,Like, even though things didn't
work out between her and myfather and he wasn't active the
way he should have been.
It's like she just was verymature about everything.
And so my father's side of thefamily was amazing because I
would like split the summer upwith my mother's side of the
family in Montego Bay and StJames and then I would like
spend the time then with myfather's side Let me see if I
(19:06):
get this right In Falmouth.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Falmouth yes, and you know you're.
I mean, I'm like I'm trying tofind words because I am from
Montego Bay.
I grew up there, went to highschool and everything, so this
is very interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
So I remember I was born inMontego Bay Hospital, but my
mother's side of the family werelike in Irwin I believe that's
the area and then my father'sside was just a little bit
further in Falmouth, like overthere?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, falmouth, it's in Chilani, but it's further the
other way, right?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Like I guess they built a big port now where
there's cruise ships, and so Iwould be sent there for like
almost every summer, I believe,and up until a certain point.
So I got to know my father'sside of the family really well
and all my siblings.
So my father, he's aRossifarian, he had a lot of
kids and, luckily for them,everyone was like close and so I
was like the sister that livedafar in and I'd come down.
(20:01):
They would accept me and loveme.
We were young, you know likesix, seven, eight, and they were
all kind of like the same age,and so I developed really deep
bonds with, like my father's momand dad, all my aunts on that
side, my cousins, and then Ijust have very fond memories of
being able to go to Jamaica andI was traveling by myself, like
I was an unaccompanied minor.
So I remember having thatexperience and so that was how I
(20:25):
like developed the deepconnection with Jamaica and my
siblings, which was veryimportant, because maybe we'll
get to it later.
But what's happened now is a lotof the older people where you
know my grandmother andgrandfather.
They passed away on my mother'sside of the family, like the
older people I used to stay with.
You know they have since passedand so now my connection to
Jamaica are my siblings that Ihave this deep connection with,
(20:47):
and so this past summer I wasable to go down with my husband
and my three kids and my othersisters who are kind of spread
out in Canada, and we all wentto my one sister in Kingston and
stayed with her, and so thatwas the first time my kids all
of them got to be in Jamaica andwe experienced the tourist side
.
But then we stayed with mysister and got the real Jamaica
(21:14):
and investment in terms of mymom being able to trust, to send
me down by myself and to justknow that I'd be OK.
But like everything did turnout OK.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love it.
I just find it fascinating, asan aside, that anytime I hear
somebody come from Moby, I'mlike, ah, because you know,
growing up, everybody alwayscome from where Kingston.
No one comes from anywhere else.
So you know, this is what Ilove about doing Carry On
(21:46):
Friends, like the immigrationstories of everyone, finding the
connectivity there and hearingthe different stories.
One story that this novel thatcame out, how to Save Babylon oh
, I'm reading that now Okay,okay, great.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I'm reading that now I'm going to be on a panel again
.
I don't know when this comesout, but I was asked to be a
guest at the well-read blackgirl festival and she's also
going to be there, which was andlike she's also from Montego
Bay.
Yeah, similar community that Igrew up Right and because of the
roster, so Rastafarianupbringing I resonate with that
(22:25):
a lot, even though I wasn'traised in that, but a lot of my
siblings were, and so there's alot there that it's just really
interesting that I'm justexcited about pursuing and
learning more about.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So talk to me about, specifically, the relationship
with your father and yoursiblings and him being a
Rastafarian and you live afarand you go there Like what was
that culture experience?
Because that is very different.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat and I guess going your
relationship with your fathereven though I guess you stayed
with your grandparents but likewhat was that relationship like?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So he wasn't active in my life.
I knew him, he knew of me butlike when I went to Jamaica, you
know he if he was around hewould try to like maybe see me.
But he also had a lot of otherkids that lived in Jamaica that
he was also trying to be therefor.
But I think his position in thecommunity, so apparently he was
(23:14):
very prominent in theRastafarian community, the
Rastafarian community, and hisname was Issa J Jr Manning and
he was all he's just all overthe place, like in terms of
trying to actually lead a lot ofinitiatives.
From what I'm learning now I'mtrying to dive actually deeper
into his story to learn moreabout him and his work.
But there's so much that my momsays I'm like him in a lot of
(23:35):
ways.
He was on the radio, he wrotebooks.
Lot of ways.
He was on the radio, he wrotebooks, he spoke a lot and was a
pillar in that community.
So a lot of that she says shefeels like I get from him and so
it's interesting because I justrealized early on that and I
just made this connectionbecause there were a couple of
men in my life this way and it'snot to absolve them of
(23:56):
responsibility, but they seem tohave had great relationships
with the community and everyoneelse.
Like if you spoke to themthey'd be like, oh my gosh, they
were like such great men in thecommunity and it is so much and
I'm like, but why weren't theylike that with their own
children?
Like I don't understand.
And so, you know, I just alwaystook it as even though I felt
like I always deserved like afather figure and someone like
that in my life that maybe, likehis, his mission or what he
(24:19):
needed to do was different andbigger, not than me, but just
for his community, whatever thatwas.
And so I I don't know, I didn'tgrow up with a grudge against
him because I was happy that Iat least knew my father's side
of the family and they reallyaccepted me with open arms.
You know I like my siblings,like my siblings are all amazing
and you know that was reallyhelpful to like come to terms
(24:40):
with like that missingconnection.
And he's since passed away andso with that, you know, being
able to connect and have thatconnection still with my
siblings is a big deal.
But just with Jamaica itself, Ijust feel like if it weren't
for going all those summers backand having you know, being able
to, I know if I go to Kingstonor if I go to Jamaica, you know,
(25:01):
and I used to go by myself whenI got a little bit older to see
my sister and it was just usand to know that I have that
connection just feels really,really important.
And so it's like now I'm justlike I have to be able to keep
that up and hopefully mychildren with their cousins
create that bond too.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, sorry to hear about your dad's passing.
There was something else as youwere talking about.
You know him having thatrelationship with the community
and everyone looking up to himand you're like, but what about
me?
I'm your daughter.
That felt literally like a lineout of the novel Hurricane
Summer where.
Asha.
She's from Canada.
(25:39):
Her father's in Jamaica.
He's a Rasta, but he's like hehas a whole farm, he's feeding
the community and she's like butwe're your kids and we barely
see you and you don't come backto Canada Like that's another
book that I feel like you could.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I'm going to desk, I wrote it down, I'm going to
check that out because, and youknow, part of me also felt like
his children that lived inJamaica, you know, didn't always
also get his attention and Ilived all the.
So I'm just like, and I was thesecond oldest you know there's a
lot of us, but I was the secondoldest and I felt like, you
know, thank goodness I was, youknow, I had a privilege of being
(26:17):
able to grow up in America andso I just felt like if he had
any time and attention and loveto give, like I'd rather him
have given that to my siblings,because, again, I'm not saying I
didn't need a father in my life, but my mom was such a force
that, like like it was enoughfor me.
If anything, I'm just like allright if you had to choose or
you couldn't spread it so thin,like give it to them because,
(26:39):
like, literally, you're inJamaica with them.
But yeah, that was really justlike important for me to, which
is why I want to learn moreabout, like his life and what he
was able to do, because I dofeel like that's an experience
for a lot of women and even boys, you know, growing up.
But I just feel like as,whether it's Caribbean or
(26:59):
Jamaican, like there's thatstereotype of, you know, the
father's not being as hands-onor around, and again, I know
it's a stereotype and there area lot of great Jamaican fathers
out there, but it was just myexperience that it just felt
like, hmm, like I want toexplore that more.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know, even when you
have somewhat of a relationship.
When my father passed away twoyears ago, I remember feeling
like I am an adult in my 40s andI'm going through these motions
because my dad passed away.
And you know, like thatconnection, you share that DNA
(27:38):
there's always something youwant more.
Why did we drift away a littlebit as I got older and had more
kids?
You know a lot of things and soI think that this journey feels
natural and it's also adiscovery of part of yourself,
like you know you as a parent.
You know like you see your kidsrunning around and you're like,
yeah, they got that from me.
(27:59):
I'm not even going to sayanything.
Like they got that from me.
Like when the husband look atyou and be like, are you that?
And you'll be like I know.
Right, you kind of want to knowwho's this other person that
contributed so much to who I amor I'm not.
You know it's, it's part ofthat discovery.
That's like you, you're moreaware of your sense of self and
(28:23):
I remember that very clearly.
When my father left, like whoam I now that he's not here,
because for so long I was hisgirl, you know and what happens.
you know, like there was just alot.
So I absolutely feel the needto dive deeper there and learn
more, and I'm excited to findout what you discover or uncover
(28:44):
in the process.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, yeah, I want to take this project on.
I know what it's going touncover, but like I'm excited
about it and one of theinteresting things, I just
always remember this because mybirthday is February 6th, which
is the same as Bob Marley'sbirthday, which, you know, for
us Safarians and just Jamaica asa whole, like no, everyone
knows that February 6th.
So I just used to remember as achild, like there's no way, like
how could he forget?
(29:06):
Like his daughter is born onFebruary 6th, like why doesn't
he at least call me on mybirthday?
And so there's a lot of thatwhich I find so intriguing and
interesting, because as a parentnow, as someone who chose you
know what I think is a greathusband and father, I'm just
like I don't understand, likehow you could be that way but
then be who you were in thecommunity, and so that's that
(29:28):
kind of stuff.
Like you said, I think it'sgoing to be a discovery of
deeper into, maybe, like myhistory, and then you know,
hopefully, maybe, of who I amnow right, the decisions I make
and why I make them, and allthose things.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for you on that one.
I really am All right.
So let's talk about this thingthat you're doing in a by the
time.
This is going to come up beforethe time it happens, and so you
are doing the Reagan marathon,and so tell me why you decide to
do this.
I mean, I love running, but letme tell you a story.
The other day, like right now,I'm in physical therapy because
(30:06):
in my mind, I'm still fast and Iwas going hard running and my
body was like my girl breaksyourself and so my knee is a
little off because I didn'tstretch as much as I used to.
Because in my mind I'm like Idid my regular stretch, I'm good
, and the PT was like you needto stretch longer than you
normally would.
So tell me what inspired you todo this.
(30:27):
I know deciding to run amarathon is like it's huge, so
walk me through your decision todo this at this point in your
life.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, so I've always been active.
I used to do gymnastics as a,you know, in my teenage years my
young girl years and teenageyears and like I did CrossFit, I
did like all the things I wasinto moving my body.
And then when I had kids, likethings changed, my body changed
and so I was just like not asactive.
(30:57):
And I remember, with thepandemic hit you know all the
gyms.
I was going to the gym beforethe pandemic but the pandemic
hit and I was like wow, like Iwant to stay active.
And so I picked up walking.
And my husband, he was, he'svery fit and active, so he used
to run and I was like I'm notrunning, like I always thought,
like I hate, like what is thepoint?
This looks very miserable, whywould I run?
And so he was running, it couldgo to the park during COVID and
(31:21):
I started to kind of like dolike run one lap and then run
like you know, one fourth of amile, like very slow and hated
it.
And then one day I decided tolike push myself and do a mile.
And the problem with me is,once I do something which is why
I don't like necessarily doingthings I know how to do.
It's like I can't go back, likenow I know I know how to do
this.
(31:41):
It can't be a conscious choicenot to do a little bit more.
And so I eventually worked myway up to running three miles,
which was a lot for me.
Up until last year, three mileswas my limit.
Once I heard the thing saythree miles, I stopped.
I was like, good, I'm done,never again.
But then I'll do it again,because I did like the feeling
afterwards and it's just veryeffective in terms of working
(32:02):
out.
And I remember the opportunitywith the reggae marathon came up
and I wanted to do this acouple of years ago but it just
never worked out.
And this year, finally, ithappened, where it just the
stars aligned and I'm able to go.
And so I was so excited becauseI'm like, okay, and they have
different levels.
I think they have the halfmarathon, then they have, I
(32:23):
think, the 10K and 5K.
And so I have a friend who alsostarted running during the
pandemic and she's trying to runfurther.
Like she's like I want to do amarathon.
I'm like I'm not training for amarathon, I'm just doing my
three miles.
And I remember when thisopportunity came I was like, hmm
, this sounds really I don'tknow.
This sounds like something Ineed to do because, one, the
timing of it was going to be theyear anniversary of my book
(32:45):
coming out.
Like, literally, it's like theyear to the date, almost, that
the book comes out, that I'mrunning this marathon.
It's in my home Island ofJamaica and I can work my way up
to pushing myself, setting thisgoal of running the full half
marathon, which is 13 miles.
And so once I felt like I'm oneof those people where I do see
opportunity and blessings and Itry to see them in a lot of
(33:07):
things, and I just thought thisis here for a reason, this
opportunity is here at thisexact moment for a reason.
Let me do this.
And so me signing up isstretching me me because, again,
I'm usually like, not someonewho would like want to run
longer miles or distances, butI'm really excited about this
because of all that itrepresents, like the year
(33:28):
anniversary of the book release,pushing myself in this way.
I'm in my early forties, so youknow, I'm not like my my bones.
I'm like listening to youtalking about stretching.
I'm like Jamila, you betterstretch a bit more Cause you
don't be shortcutting it, butI'm excited just because it just
feels very, uh, important.
And me now, with this discoveryof me wanting to learn more
(33:49):
about my father, like it allfeels like a homecoming of sorts
and a journey deeper into mylife.
Like it just it just feels verybig and so that I should do
this and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Wonderful.
I mean, one day I will stretchmyself, but once the knee fix,
because when I tell you like Ican't even go up steps, you know
, and I knew that I wasoverdoing it, but in my mind I
was like I could do this.
But what I love about yourstory is this idea that it's
really never too late.
(34:20):
Right, because you talk aboutthe financial freedom.
Here we are doing a marathon,right?
You said you're in your early40s.
If you really want to trysomething, commit to something,
push yourself.
It's never really too late.
The pushing of yourself isreally you, a contract between
(34:41):
you and yourself and not anyoneelse.
Right, and really makingadjustments.
Right, and I think that's whatI had to learn through this
whole injury thing.
You are pushing yourself andthat's great.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
But pushing yourself also means knowing when you
can't push that far Right anddialing it back a little bit it
(35:19):
truly is an individual journeyand it's great to have like
champions and cheerleaders in agroup to help you like whether
that's a running group or friend, just like in your finances,
like someone you can talk toabout stuff in a community, but
really it's you and everyone'ssituation is different, like
everyone's body is different,everyone's time commitments,
what they can do is different,your age, all these things are
going to be different.
About how you can applyyourself to running or even your
(35:40):
finances, like your startingpoint, how much you make, your
expenses, the stage of lifeyou're in I know pre-kids my
finances and my goals lookdifferent than they do now.
Someone who's single journeywas as a single parent is going
to look totally different than atwo income household.
Right, like there's so manythings that we can't compare
(36:01):
what we're going through toother people.
We can have best practices andthings that can be helpful, but
just like running, every timeI'm running it's like it's
really, it's a runningmeditation.
It's me against myself, Like doyou want to stop, like this
feels hard.
And same thing whether it'sbusiness, going to school,
finances.
You're going to come across allthis mindset and habit work
(36:23):
that you have to do, which is abig part of achieving any goal.
Yes, your body has to playalong and agree, right, like
your body can't do it, just likeyour finances, like you know,
it's but so much if you can do,if you're not earning enough
money.
But there is all this inner workthat happens on any journey you
take.
That, to me, is the mostimportant, because I do think
(36:44):
it's a transferable skill, likeset, that you can take and apply
it to anything, and so I justthink this journey that I'm on,
in different aspects that we'reall on, is so important and no
matter the age or like yourcircumstances.
You know, even with the running, like my goal is not to run
really that much faster, I justwant to make sure that I can
(37:06):
like finish it and like do it ina time that feels good, just
like your finances, like, yeah,be great to not have to work in
two years, but that might not berealistic.
So what does it look like tohave an enjoyable journey, just
like?
What does it look like to havean enjoyable run and not look at
the next person who's goinglike six minutes per mile right
or achieving and paying offtheir debt quicker than you are?
(37:27):
What works for you and what areyou willing to put into it to
get it done?
Sacrifice to get it done or notsacrifice because you're like
not doing it today.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So I love that you've put that together because, as
someone who loves to run, itmakes a lot of sense, because I
got this injury because I wascomparing to my younger self
that ran a certain mile by acertain time and I was trying to
make that and I had to now dothat self-talk and say, okay,
(37:57):
now you have to, you know,rethink this.
You know, maybe you could havegone really low on them squats.
You can't go all the way thatlow, you know.
But again, it's the mindset, isa talk track in your mind and
interrupting some of that talktrack to meet the goals.
So I'm waiting to see all thepictures of you running.
I'm waiting to see all thepictures of you running.
(38:17):
I'm excited for you and thisjourney because, again, it's all
about.
I think what I'm getting fromyou is that we have families and
we have spouses and kids, butthere's this element of you that
you have to make sure ishealthy for all those people,
whether it's mentally,physically or financially to be
(38:40):
present and enjoy the peoplethat you're with.
And so that's one of my bigtakeaways from this right,
because even with your family,your sisters, right, you still
need to be in a place wherefamily of five flying to Jamaica
is not cheap.
So you need to be in a place.
You understand what I'm sayingand so I just love this story
(39:01):
and congratulations on the book,and I'll make sure I tell
people that listen.
If you want to do this, Iprobably need to share it with
my nephew because I've beentrying to tell him.
To save your money, I mighttell him is it available in
audio book, because I listen toaudio books.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So it is available everywhere Audiobook, everywhere
books are sold.
So if you go on Amazon, you goto it's in airports it's in
Barnes Noble.
So my website to get the bookor to check it out and see where
you can buy ityourjourneytofinancialfreedomcom
.
That's the book website.
It will show all the links togo to Amazon Barnes Noble Target
(39:38):
.
It's all there.
And then you can also get itfrom your local bookstores.
Support your local bookstores.
And my podcast Journey toLaunch you can find on Apple
Podcasts and all those places.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Wonderful Jamila, thank you so much for being on
the podcast.
I loved your story and I knowthe listeners will enjoy it as
well.
And any last words before wesay goodbye?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Thank you for having me on the show.
I feel like you know so manyyears now I've been talking
about.
Well, when I get interviewed byother people, it's usually
about finances, which is fine.
You know that's my niche.
But I think it's really nicenow to like start talking about
something like a little bitdifferent and like this other
side that I'm looking at, orthis creative side, or pursuing
now like deeper into my roots.
So thank you for theopportunity to kind of explore
(40:23):
that more and talk some of thisthrough.
But I really do want toencourage anyone listening that
it sounds very cliche and corny,but literally this is
everything.
You're on the journey, whetheryou know it or not, because the
time is going to pass anyway,god willing that we're here 10,
15, 20 years from now.
And so I know that when itcomes to finances, even health,
(40:45):
that if you're starting from aplace where you don't feel like
getting to your goal feels veryhard and far away, that it
sometimes feels, oh, it's betterjust not to start or to ignore
it, and I understand that.
But I think you know littlesteps.
Being honest with yourself aboutwhat you can tolerate, what
you're not willing to tolerate,is important to creating action
(41:08):
and, you know, understanding whymaybe there's no movement or
you feel that you can't dosomething is important, like
working on that.
That inner work is, to me, moreimportant than the external work
that we want to do.
The inner work allows us to dothe external work, and so that's
not always easy, but that youknow.
I do believe that many people,if we're talking about finances,
can move through those stagesthat I talked about earlier,
(41:30):
like get to a better stage andbe happier with their life.
And you don't have to have amillion dollars, you don't have
to be out of debt completely,but you can move through the
stages at your own pace and havea better life.
And then the same thing on thewhether it's health or fitness
side that I do feel like findingthings that you're happy about,
not always related to money orthat challenge.
(41:50):
You are important so that youcan enjoy this path, this life
that we live in.
So don't be afraid to start andtake small steps.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That is beautiful and on that note, as I love to say
at the end of every episode walkgood.
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