May 30, 2025 • 34 mins
Listen to our last guest this week, Rob Rajfer, the founder and CEO of Waggon, as he speaks about his entrepreneurial journey and success in the transportation industry!
Here’s What to Learn From This Episode:
- Rob Rajfer's Entrepreneurial Journey: Rob transitioned from a career at C.H. Robinson to founding Waggon with Tyler Sala. Launched in May 2023, catalyzed by market downturns and a risk-taking mindset post-capital raise from friends and family.
- Waggon's Growth Metrics: Bootstrapped from personal savings, Waggon achieved $3M in top-line revenue in its first six months and targets 6x growth in the second year, with ambitions to 3x again. Emphasis on talent and processes over tech complexity is vital to this growth.
- Key Industry Insights: Rob identifies M&A as significant for industry consolidation, benefiting fragmented small brokerages. Automation and AI will enhance back-office functions, but human interaction remains crucial in sales and customer service for maintaining competitive edge.
About Rob Rajfer
Robert received his BA in Liberal Arts and Business Management from Indiana University and his MS in Law from Northwestern University.
Robert has worked in the supply chain / logistics industry for the past five years. Robert spent the first three years of his career at C.H. Robinson (NASDAQ: CHRW) and the following years at Flock Freight (backed by SoftBank, Google Ventures, and Signal Fire).
In conjunction with his work in supply chain / logistics, Robert is the Managing Partner of Seconds Capital LLC, a boutique micro VC.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger ball.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is a real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show.
(00:48):
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Friday everybody. It has been a great week. Freight humming out there, you guys. You know, we move a lot of open deck freight and it's building season out there. So we're enjoying that. We're staying busy, we're staying on top of it. And you know what, my guest today, you guys, we're going to be talking about building a company. We're going to be talking about going out there and building something from scratch. Scratch.
(01:25):
And I'm really excited because there's a family connection today between today's guest and a past guest out there. So with that being said, I have the founder of Wagon, Mr. Rog, Rob Rafer on the show. Rob, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Morning.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Happy to be here, dude, I am too, man. And it's, you know, I was wishing we could be in person today because you're up in Scottsdale, I'm down in Chandler here. And it would have been awesome to get together and do this in person especially because like we have an unseasonably like, cool weekend in Arizona. So it's only going to be like 90 today, which most people out there are going to hear that and they're going to be like, that's so hot. But like, dude, out here it's so unseasonably cold.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It's true. It's very true. We'll have to do A follow up episode in person.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, no, we definitely will, man. And I don't want either of us to be at a point where we're slow, you know, but like, in the event that things are a little bit more calm, man, we could definitely do that in person. So, dude, I always like to start these shows. Rob, what brought you into transportation? How did you get your start in freight?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So that's the perfect intro based on your intro. My. My brother in law, Jeremy Schlockett, who's over at Traffics, got me into the business. I was a junior in college and wanted to go into finance or law, which was what all my friends and family were in, and went for a bunch of internships my junior year summer, which is kind of the classic, you know, junior in college thing to do, especially for finance. And yeah, get any internships that I wanted to do. And I called up Jeremy and I was like, you know that internship at that trucking company, C.H. Robinson, that. That sounds great. I. I love the. Love to interview there and see what I could do.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Dude, I think that, you know, having that connection in there and then especially like, Jeremy, like, right, because, like, I had Jeremy on the show and he was introduced to me from a good buddy of mine as well. And Jeremy's one of the most knowledgeable and passionate people about transportation that I think I've ever interviewed on this show. And not only is that there, but. But he also, like, deeply cares about his job and like, the industry and all of that. And I, you know, I haven't talked to him essentially since he's been on my show, but I still remember that one. Right? And you know, I. I talked to a lot of people, obviously, and, you know, his was one of those more meaningful ones because of just the. The type of passion that he gets.
(03:47):
Like, you don't see that in everybody, right? Like, there's people who do transportation for a job, but then there's people who bleed the industry. And he's one of those guys, in my opinion, that bleeds freight.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He definitely does. And it definitely shows. He's been an amazing mentor to me and I'm very grateful that he's the man that's married to my sister, so. In more ways than one. So, I. I couldn't agree more. And, you know, I definitely attribute a lot of my success to, you know, his mentorship and stewardship, so.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
No, dude, I love that, man. And so, like, what brought you as an entrepreneur now? I always love hearing this, man, what happened where you're like, I want to go and start my own thing. Kind of walk us through the beginning stages of that because I think you know, it's such a blur when you start a business because there's so much stuff going on so that I like to document a lot of that, especially with founders because I think you kind of start to remember things that you forgot you kind of did. So kind of like what was that? Those early conversations with your co founders and stuff. Kind of like what led Wagon to becoming Wagon.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, it's a great point. I mean I, I think I always had the entrepreneurial bug. You know, when I was at C.H. Robinson, I started kind of like a micro VC where I was kind of syndicating investments in different startups. So I'd raised like a very small amount of capital into, you know, pre seed and seed rounds and then I'd get those founders to give me advisory shares. And so that was kind of my initial entrepreneurial journey. But you know, I was at Robinson and love my time there, you know, amazing organization. They, they really teach and set the foundation. So. And you know, between. I feel like all roads in our industry in some way lead back to see drops in or coyote.
(05:39):
And so I was there for about four years and you know, stayed there through the territory model switch and you just kind of took a look around, I was like, you know, this is a massive organization and the downside of a massive organization is as you try to move up, you know, there's only so many spots and yeah, that's, that's just large companies, right. And it takes a lot of time and you know, I kind of saw an opportunity to move my career forward and make a move somewhere else and you know, flex that entrepreneurial muscle that I had already kind of started but actually my own career. So I made the jump to Flock Freight back in October. I would say it was October of 2020. 2020 or 2021. I need a little bit more coffee this morning.
(06:30):
But so I made the jump to Flock Freight, you know, and that's where I met Tyler Sala, who's my co founder and the chief operating officer here at Wagon. And you know, it was a training class of two because were very early at Flock. So it was a woman by the name of Mia Ren was our, you know, HR and people and culture manager and she brought us on and got us up to speed. And Justin Turner was the one who hired us and he's also another phenomenal transportation expert and you Know, Tyler and I just hit it off right away. You know, we thought about the business the same way. And I was super impressed with Tyler's background. He'd been at a lot of different places, been transportation for a very long time.
(07:18):
You know, they say jack of all trades, ace of none, but Tyler is just super well rounded and the opposite of that expression applies to him. So, yeah, so we became close friends during our time at Flock, and, you know, were both in commercial sales and sold for about two and a half years. And it's probably about January of 2023. There were some pretty significant changes that transpired at Flock that, you know, negatively affected a lot of employees. And, you know, it just kind of got to that time where, you know, I started looking for my next thing again, you know, opportunity to move my career forward. And you interviewed at some places and just kind of took a look around and was like, you know, I'm 28, single, living in New York, like, there's.
(08:10):
There's no better time to take a swing on myself, you know, And I had a couple of very good friends from high school who were super supportive of my professional journey. And they're like, you're amazing at this. You should go do it yourself. And I was like, you know, it's not that easy. Everybody would do it. It's a very competitive market, you know, and there's. People say it's a low barrier to entry, but that's actually not the case. It's actually very capital intensive if you're going to do it the right way. Right?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
And, you know, I. And I also shared that were in the bottom of the market. And, you know, I, I laugh now because I, I told all the investors, I was like, you know, the market's bad. We're starting at the bottom. It's gonna be bad for a year, maybe two. No way. It's gonna be bad for three years. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So. So we raised some cash and here we launched our first load, moved May 23.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay. Dude, I love that, man. I love that story. And kind of like how everything starts to connect, right? Because like, I. Dude, when. When I got in and, you know, I brought in my business partner with it and, you know, he's my best friend, he's my first cousin, and he's somebody who, you know, three years in, we haven't came to blows from a physical standpoint. So, like, we work well together, all things considered. And, you know, we do that because, like, we have contrasting personalities and like, styles in how we like to operate, you know, and we're, you know, we're now two and a half years in because like, we, you know, it was late 2022 when we're like, hey, let's get this together.
(09:51):
And then, you know, went and built up everything behind the scenes first and then we essentially went go live January 1st of 2023. And I was in the same boat as you, man. And you know, all of my industry experience, everything that I saw out there, I was like, dude, by 2024, things are going to start to like pick up, you know, like, it has to at that point. And you know, you're right, man, here we are. And I think, like, from my perspective, man, a lot of people need to stop asking when's it going to change? And start thinking, what if it doesn't? And how do I grow no matter what goes on out there? And you know, and that's kind of the approach that we take is like, dude, we're just so niche specific in what we're building.
(10:26):
And we just do that from like a growth trajectory, a training and development. I don't believe in the spray and pray methodology of like going after anything and everything. And now, you know, you guys are different. And we're different in the sense of like, we have actual experience in multiple different modes of transportation that's out there. Not everybody has that right. So that's why I'm always so niche specific with people when you're building, because I'm like repeatable, scalable processes. That's what you need. You need stuff that you can duplicate and replicate and build behind you to where you can make you and make 10 people behind you operate in the same manner that you do. Right?
(11:02):
Because the secret sauce, you know, like, I think everybody always wants to talk to like, okay, your culture, your this year, that, well, that comes from the founders. That comes from the way that you guys operate from day one, $1. And I think like, I love founder led organizations mainly because, you know, I'm a founder led organization and I feel like they move faster and they're more passionate, right? Because you guys and ourselves know what it's like when you have no customers, you have no money coming in, you have everything on the line, right? Like I, I talk about this on the show often. Robin. I don't joke when I say, like, I don't have a 401k anymore. You guys emptied that out to put everything on the line to build my dreams up, right?
(11:43):
So like, that's the level of seriousness that we operate with every time we go out there and when we're cold calling and prospecting and everything. Because we had no guaranteed freight, we had nothing. Like we started from 00, $0 customers. So it's like, that's what I love the most about talking to individuals though, like yourselves in yourself is like you're out there building it from nothing. And raising money is not easy. You know, like there's a fallacy out there. Like, oh, just snap your fingers, you have this napkin idea, boom, there's $5 million, you know, go out and spend it and stuff like that. So how did you guys take that capital? You know, because there's a lot of people out there that want to raise money.
(12:24):
So how did you, after you guys raised, how were you like, we have to invest in this first. Did you guys have like a top five things that you wanted to invest in right away? Was it technology? Was it people? What did that look like?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
So that's a great point to also talk about. And before I answer, like, you know, how we kind of went about capital allocation, I want to say, you know, a lot of people celebrate raising money and raising rounds. I think it's really important, no matter who you're raising money for, whether it's a high net worth individual angel investor, whether it's the largest fund out there or anything in between, that, you know, raising money is not a celebration, it's an obligation. Right? Like when you take that dollar, you have a fiduciary responsibility to be a steward of that capital and do everything in your power to return, you know, maximum premiums to investors and take care of them in any way you possibly can. So like, you know, I think we're not venture back, right? Like we're backed by friends and families.
(13:29):
So that's a little bit of a different dynamic, you know, than the, you know, the typical venture route. But you know, it's just, it's something. When I, when I see that online, I'm like, okay, great. You know, XYZ organization raised XYZ amount of dollars. But like, what's the plan to actually return value to your shareholders? And how are you going to get there? Because that is what it's about the second you take, you know, that outside dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I, I want to just kind of interject here. I think it would be harder to, for me personally to take money from people I know, that friends and that family, because of that emotional, like I would feel, not that I would ever discredit any, you know, type of funds that I would be able to raise from like private equity or venture, but like, if it was me going to somebody that like I grew up with or like was my brother in law or my sister in law, like, dude, I would feel like so much more anxiety. I'm like, I gotta get them a return.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
It is, it is a weight on my shoulders. I've never felt until, you know, these are people I love and care about. Right?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And I, I recognize that the people who invest in Wagon, you know, are like, it's a high risk, high reward investment. Right. So like, I understand that like you're not giving me know, money that they can't afford to lose. Right?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And that's, you know, obviously very clearly outlined in all of our docs, right. That this is what this is. But yeah, it's a crazy way, you know, raising for friends and family. But by the same token, you know, the other side of that is if you're able to deliver for them, the upside is just that much greater.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Because it's people that you love to care about. So, you know, it's my recommendation to people out there, you know, raising money would be, you know, sure, it's great to get your star from, you know, friends and family, etc. But as soon as you can actually go the institutional route, as long as you can get the right partner, I think the right partner is so important that's the way to go. Right. Because you don't want to keep tapping the angel investor.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, yeah, no, I got you, man. So after you go through that round now, like, what does that capital disbursement look like? Is it. Were you guys like, hey, we want to automate as much as we can behind the scenes and focus on technology or are you guys kind of doing a hybrid model of like we want that old school freight mentality, but we want that new school tech backing behind it on like a customer by customer basis.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So we raised that initial round and then we brought in, you know, an additional round of capital price six months or eight months in, which was about four we initially raised. And all that capital has effectively gone to just bringing the best people in the business, enabled by best in class technology practices, and then outlining, you know, the best process that we possibly can, you know, given the tools that are at our disposal. Right. And you know, I always tell people, you know, we're building planes and flying it Right. So like, you know, we just have new problems on a daily basis in addition to the problems that just come with garden variety freight. And so that's really what the money goes towards.
(16:42):
And you know, that's why our first year we did about 3 million in top line, you know, in about six months. And our second year we 6x that and this year we're looking to 3x last year's top line, we've effectively grown almost every month over month since we've been in business. And the way we've been able to do that is, you know, we're not recreating the wheel here, we're just creating a really strong wheel and again, that's enabled by the best people. Right? Because that's what this business is you hire the best people, you take care of them and you let them go out and deliver, you know, and to the best you can. Again, as a leader, you know, you have to enable them and give them room to run within XYZ parameters. So.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
No, I get it, man. Yeah, I think like we're in an interesting, interesting time out there where it's like, you know, they're obviously I'm one of the old school, new school hybrids in the sense of like, if you have the money to invest in technology in the right spots, right? Like, of course, try and streamline as much as that you possibly can. And you know, but it's like if you can't afford it though, you know, you got to be strategic in the sense of like, what are your customers actually asking for? And we do not have any customers to this day that have ever said, what does your tech stack look like? What are you going to be able to do? 99% of them are like, dude, you said you could pick up this load. Why aren't you picking up this load?
(18:14):
Or you know, just pick up the freight and deliver it on time and we're going to be good to go. Right. So I feel like there's kind of a balance out there of do you need it or not? And I feel like if you're bootstrapping or if you have capital out there, like I have yet to see it outside of, you know, I know some of my friends who work with the, you know, the Fortune 1 hundreds and the Fortune 5 hundreds of the world. And yeah, that's different, but that's a small sector of the industry and that's an even smaller opportunity to actually get in the door with some of those style shippers. And I feel like the majority of people and the majority of the opportunities that are out there, you don't need a large tech stack, you need a solid tms.
(18:53):
You know, you need a really solid tms, you need API capabilities, you need EDI capabilities. But like, for the most part, man, I don't know of anything else that is like actually required to move freight out there outside of your tms. And yeah, you could argue load boards and ratings and stuff like that, but it's a very small circle of actual tech that you need to move freight out there right now.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So I completely agree and give a little shout out to our VP of sales, Jeremy Goodman. Jeremy and I worked here at C.H. Robinson and he was there before me and I started in his group. And I remember were talking one day like very early in my career and he said something to me along the lines of the broker you're working with is only. The brokerage you're working with is only as good as the broker you're dealing with. And I think that is so true, right? Like, that's why people are so important, right? Because the way we've been able to grow through a combination of, you know, net new growth of existing is because we have amazing people, you know, that are, you know, both operating and growing accounts and also bringing in new accounts.
(19:59):
And you know, we're building the team, you know, that shippers want to work with. Right? And sure, everybody says that, right. But going out and doing it in reality and execution is totally different than saying you can do it. Right? And so that's why so much of this business is also just getting in the door, getting an opportunity. And to your point, you know, building a niche is a great way to do that because that's the way you're able to actually demonstrate value. And then once you're in and you know, you can show a shift for who you are, you then you're able to kind of diversify in the services that you can offer and grow with them year over year. And like that's how you build a billion dollar organization.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, it's, you know, there's, I think there's a lot of overcomplication that is out there in the market right now. And again, man, there's a lot of companies who have a lot of money to disperse on marketing that are creating and marketing a perceived need in the market that I don't necessarily see out there. I'm not saying that it's non existent across the board or anything like that, but for the most part man, and I think like that's what I love about this industry is like man, you can get in and keep your overhead low depending on the style of business you want to build right at the end of the day and you can build a profitable business, you know, pretty.
(21:12):
I don't want to say easy or fast or anything like that, but you don't need a ton of tech, you don't need a ton of outside stuff to go out and move freight. At the end of the day you need that tribal knowledge. And that's only going to come from experience. That's only going to come from actually going out there and moving freight and making mistakes. And you know, because like what you said there Rob, is very accurate. There is very little any of us can say on the front end to any of our shippers that they haven't heard before a hundred times over. Really fundamentally it's going to boil down to the individual operating that freight and frankly the give a level that individual actually has for their book of business and their reputation out there in the market.
(21:56):
Because I have out like I thought everybody cared man, like I really did. But like, because that's just the way that I am about it and I'm coming to realize man, that that's not a thing at all. And you know, I, I've just found that from my perspective the best thing you can do is actually communicate. And I mean actually communicate, not say you say what's going on, I mean actually do it. And then when you're moving their freight, find those opportunities inside of their operation, your shipper's operation, on what you can actually find efficiencies with and then bring those improvements to them. And I, and I feel like that just comes after you start moving their freight. But for the most part it takes a long time, especially in today's market, to really bust through the door with a lot of these individuals.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I, I agree. And so it's funny, I actually think that something that is not talked about a lot in our business, but is arguably the most important aspect of our business is recruiting. Right? Like how are you going out and finding the best talent for different roles? That's a question shippers never ask, right?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And it's interesting because like that's the most important thing. You know, all shippers are happy when there's someone amazing on their account, but the second you pull the person off their account and swap them out. If that person isn't up to the previous standard of the prior individual.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Individual.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Right. Then there's problems. So, like, if I was a shipper, you know, Talking to a prospective 3 PL, I'd be asking like, you know, how are you recruiting? What's your process look like? How are you vetting people? You know, who's on my account? How long can I expect them to be on my account? You know, if that person becomes really good, are they gonna get promoted and, you know, move off of my account? And, you know, I. That's. Again, I think it's. It's one of the most important parts of the business that just doesn't get enough attention.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
No, I'm. I'm right there with you, man. Cause it is. It's like at the end of the day, you. You need to plug and play. You need to replicate yourself as fast as possible and get them somebody in there. Because your customer should never see any difference. And that's one thing that we're really hammering into our training. And everything that comes along with it is it does not matter if it's me, my business partner, or anybody else dealing with my customer, they will receive the exact same response time, the exact same service, and the exact same communication, no matter what that's going on out there. Because I feel like that's the biggest opportunity is this. When people churn that rep on that account.
(24:18):
And if they don't come in and deliver the exact same level of service that they are used to, that's when my job gets a lot easier from the prospecting front because I'm in your shipper's ears at some point. I don't know who your customers are, but you know what I mean, I'm actively prospecting every single day. I am making cold calls every single day. It's only a matter of time. And then, especially if you're out there listening to this and you move flatbed freight, it's really only a matter of time before I'm in your prospect or your customer's ears. And that's the way that you got to look at it is this. Your customer is my prospect. And it is. And if you're going to let your foot off the gas one second, there's. That's my window, and that's all I'm asking for.
(24:58):
And just like with me, though, with all of my customers, it's the same thing. If I take my foot off the gas one second, somebody else is in their ear right now. This Second, while I'm doing the show, somebody's prospecting my current customers.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
100 totally agree.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That's what I love about this, man. I love it. It, it's. There's just so much opportunity that comes along with it. So, dude, what do you think is the best opportunity over the next, you know, three to five years? Inside of this industry, where do you see things kind of trending? I don't care about how the market performs. I mean, like, from a more of like a fundamentals technology standpoint, do you see anything kind of progressing where it's like there's a real opportunity that comes along with it? Because frankly, when it comes to the market, it's a crapshoot at this point on what it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know, I think there's a lot of opportunities. I think M and A is probably one of the largest ones. There's, it's become so fragmented, both on the asset carrier side and on the broker side. And there's so many synergies, specifically on the broker side that get realized, you know, through acquisitions that I think you can go out and buy, you know, a few brokerages and you basically wipe out their tech stack and, you know, a very large piece of their opex because, you know, through consolidation, you're realizing those synergies. You get significant ebitda, you know, increases and multiple increases by kind of, you know, threading those three PLs together. There's so many three PLs under like 25 million, right, where it's just like, you know, it's a few great customers, a few deep relationships. Also you buying the people, right?
(26:37):
They're getting employment agreements, they're getting locked in for a period of time. And I think that is something that you're just going to see, especially given how bad the market has been over the last few years. I think that's really going to see, you know, over the next two to three years.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I, I agree, man. I think the biggest threat to the industry comes for the brokerage side of the industry. I truly do. I feel like from a consolidation standpoint, and I feel like there's just going to reach a point where some people are just going to throw the white flag and be like, I'm done, man. I can't do this anymore. And you know, like, that's one thing that I would say is like on our roadmap is probably in the M and A space. That's the only way I would ever take on debt. I'M not going to take on debt for anything else. But it would be along those lines because I do feel like there is a lot of opportunity that comes along with it. And there are a lot of businesses that are inside of this space.
(27:31):
Like you said under, you know, that 20 to 25 million that have probably three to four core accounts. Two of those core accounts are like, you know, 80% of their revenue and they, you know, they got a couple of filler accounts in there, but yeah, man, that's out there. And then if you can go in there and you know, and this is where from my perspective, you know, it is that automation piece that comes along with it. It is all the back office stuff. Right? Like I won't, I will never automate a custom carrier experience with my company. Never would never, ever under any circumstances, at least to this day I haven't found a need to ever want to do that because I feel like personally that's what people are going to revert back to is while everybody pushes automate everything.
(28:09):
AI dialers, AI everything. I think like that's going to just build up a lot of resistance right away because it's only a matter of time before these manufacturers have an AI receptionist answering all the phones. And then it's bot talking to bot. And then, and then how are you going to ever break through at that point? You know, I, I agree.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
You know, I think one of the big moats of AI is, you know, the human experience and sales. Right. Like an AI robot is not going to be able to sell and deliver, you know, value and opportunities the same way a human can. Or at least not for the next five to 10 years, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, but you know, I do.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Think that, you know, AI, that's another huge disruptor that's coming for our industry. I mean it's gonna allow so much amazing automation on the back end of things. I think it's really going to help a lot of three PLs, you know, lower their OPEX. It's going to be interesting to see how that industry becomes very commoditized because it's happening at a fast rate. So.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you, man. And I feel like that's one thing where, you know, from an automation standpoint like that that's where we're gonna go next is it's like we already have, like we're very fortunate to have a phenomenal tech stack. You know, like we're an agent with spi and you know, we. I'm very fortunate to use a lot of the logos that sponsor this show day, you know, daily inside of my business. Right. Like, I mean, I, I use Revenova literally 100 times a day. Right. But I feel like from there it's the building, the operational efficiencies through automation to where, like when we do go out there and hire people, I'm not hiring 15 to hope 5 work out.
(29:46):
I'm just going to hire the right 5 and arm them with the right tech stack to where they can now 10x their opportunities. And that's just the approach that we're going to be taking with it because I just don't feel the need to automate everything. But like, in my opinion, 90% of my day should be automated. It can be automated and that's what we're going to do. So we're hiring the right people and I truly think, like, we're going to be able to hit some really gaudy numbers with a lean headcount because as I always say, and I'll say it again, man, we will never have cap commission.
(30:17):
So my people are going to make as much money as they as their heart desires, and I'm never going to stop that because as somebody who is a sales rep at heart, the most demotivating thing you can do is be like, hey man, we're going to raise your goals that, man, like let them hunt your commissions. So, dude, exactly. I'm gonna let my hunters hunt, man, and they're gonna go out there and kill. Completely agree, dude. I love it, man. Rob, I appreciate your time, man. I'm really excited to see how you guys are going to go and continue to do some good things out there in the market, man. How does anybody reach out to you guys? Are you guys hiring? How do people reach out and find more? Find out more.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
We're definitely hiring customer sales. So if you're interested, shoot your resume and craziest freight story over to Infowagon IO.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Perfect. Rob, I appreciate it, man. That's going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen. As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, which you should be, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Came back with a bank. If they hate, then let them hate them. Make a bigger ball.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Hey.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger ball.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is a real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show.
(00:48):
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Friday everybody. It has been a great week. Freight humming out there, you guys. You know, we move a lot of open deck freight and it's building season out there. So we're enjoying that. We're staying busy, we're staying on top of it. And you know what, my guest today, you guys, we're going to be talking about building a company. We're going to be talking about going out there and building something from scratch. Scratch.
(01:25):
And I'm really excited because there's a family connection today between today's guest and a past guest out there. So with that being said, I have the founder of Wagon, Mr. Rog, Rob Rafer on the show. Rob, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Morning.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Happy to be here, dude, I am too, man. And it's, you know, I was wishing we could be in person today because you're up in Scottsdale, I'm down in Chandler here. And it would have been awesome to get together and do this in person especially because like we have an unseasonably like, cool weekend in Arizona. So it's only going to be like 90 today, which most people out there are going to hear that and they're going to be like, that's so hot. But like, dude, out here it's so unseasonably cold.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It's true. It's very true. We'll have to do A follow up episode in person.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, no, we definitely will, man. And I don't want either of us to be at a point where we're slow, you know, but like, in the event that things are a little bit more calm, man, we could definitely do that in person. So, dude, I always like to start these shows. Rob, what brought you into transportation? How did you get your start in freight?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So that's the perfect intro based on your intro. My. My brother in law, Jeremy Schlockett, who's over at Traffics, got me into the business. I was a junior in college and wanted to go into finance or law, which was what all my friends and family were in, and went for a bunch of internships my junior year summer, which is kind of the classic, you know, junior in college thing to do, especially for finance. And yeah, get any internships that I wanted to do. And I called up Jeremy and I was like, you know that internship at that trucking company, C.H. Robinson, that. That sounds great. I. I love the. Love to interview there and see what I could do.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Dude, I think that, you know, having that connection in there and then especially like, Jeremy, like, right, because, like, I had Jeremy on the show and he was introduced to me from a good buddy of mine as well. And Jeremy's one of the most knowledgeable and passionate people about transportation that I think I've ever interviewed on this show. And not only is that there, but. But he also, like, deeply cares about his job and like, the industry and all of that. And I, you know, I haven't talked to him essentially since he's been on my show, but I still remember that one. Right? And you know, I. I talked to a lot of people, obviously, and, you know, his was one of those more meaningful ones because of just the. The type of passion that he gets.
(03:47):
Like, you don't see that in everybody, right? Like, there's people who do transportation for a job, but then there's people who bleed the industry. And he's one of those guys, in my opinion, that bleeds freight.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He definitely does. And it definitely shows. He's been an amazing mentor to me and I'm very grateful that he's the man that's married to my sister, so. In more ways than one. So, I. I couldn't agree more. And, you know, I definitely attribute a lot of my success to, you know, his mentorship and stewardship, so.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
No, dude, I love that, man. And so, like, what brought you as an entrepreneur now? I always love hearing this, man, what happened where you're like, I want to go and start my own thing. Kind of walk us through the beginning stages of that because I think you know, it's such a blur when you start a business because there's so much stuff going on so that I like to document a lot of that, especially with founders because I think you kind of start to remember things that you forgot you kind of did. So kind of like what was that? Those early conversations with your co founders and stuff. Kind of like what led Wagon to becoming Wagon.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, it's a great point. I mean I, I think I always had the entrepreneurial bug. You know, when I was at C.H. Robinson, I started kind of like a micro VC where I was kind of syndicating investments in different startups. So I'd raised like a very small amount of capital into, you know, pre seed and seed rounds and then I'd get those founders to give me advisory shares. And so that was kind of my initial entrepreneurial journey. But you know, I was at Robinson and love my time there, you know, amazing organization. They, they really teach and set the foundation. So. And you know, between. I feel like all roads in our industry in some way lead back to see drops in or coyote.
(05:39):
And so I was there for about four years and you know, stayed there through the territory model switch and you just kind of took a look around, I was like, you know, this is a massive organization and the downside of a massive organization is as you try to move up, you know, there's only so many spots and yeah, that's, that's just large companies, right. And it takes a lot of time and you know, I kind of saw an opportunity to move my career forward and make a move somewhere else and you know, flex that entrepreneurial muscle that I had already kind of started but actually my own career. So I made the jump to Flock Freight back in October. I would say it was October of 2020. 2020 or 2021. I need a little bit more coffee this morning.
(06:30):
But so I made the jump to Flock Freight, you know, and that's where I met Tyler Sala, who's my co founder and the chief operating officer here at Wagon. And you know, it was a training class of two because were very early at Flock. So it was a woman by the name of Mia Ren was our, you know, HR and people and culture manager and she brought us on and got us up to speed. And Justin Turner was the one who hired us and he's also another phenomenal transportation expert and you Know, Tyler and I just hit it off right away. You know, we thought about the business the same way. And I was super impressed with Tyler's background. He'd been at a lot of different places, been transportation for a very long time.
(07:18):
You know, they say jack of all trades, ace of none, but Tyler is just super well rounded and the opposite of that expression applies to him. So, yeah, so we became close friends during our time at Flock, and, you know, were both in commercial sales and sold for about two and a half years. And it's probably about January of 2023. There were some pretty significant changes that transpired at Flock that, you know, negatively affected a lot of employees. And, you know, it just kind of got to that time where, you know, I started looking for my next thing again, you know, opportunity to move my career forward. And you interviewed at some places and just kind of took a look around and was like, you know, I'm 28, single, living in New York, like, there's.
(08:10):
There's no better time to take a swing on myself, you know, And I had a couple of very good friends from high school who were super supportive of my professional journey. And they're like, you're amazing at this. You should go do it yourself. And I was like, you know, it's not that easy. Everybody would do it. It's a very competitive market, you know, and there's. People say it's a low barrier to entry, but that's actually not the case. It's actually very capital intensive if you're going to do it the right way. Right?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
And, you know, I. And I also shared that were in the bottom of the market. And, you know, I, I laugh now because I, I told all the investors, I was like, you know, the market's bad. We're starting at the bottom. It's gonna be bad for a year, maybe two. No way. It's gonna be bad for three years. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So. So we raised some cash and here we launched our first load, moved May 23.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay. Dude, I love that, man. I love that story. And kind of like how everything starts to connect, right? Because like, I. Dude, when. When I got in and, you know, I brought in my business partner with it and, you know, he's my best friend, he's my first cousin, and he's somebody who, you know, three years in, we haven't came to blows from a physical standpoint. So, like, we work well together, all things considered. And, you know, we do that because, like, we have contrasting personalities and like, styles in how we like to operate, you know, and we're, you know, we're now two and a half years in because like, we, you know, it was late 2022 when we're like, hey, let's get this together.
(09:51):
And then, you know, went and built up everything behind the scenes first and then we essentially went go live January 1st of 2023. And I was in the same boat as you, man. And you know, all of my industry experience, everything that I saw out there, I was like, dude, by 2024, things are going to start to like pick up, you know, like, it has to at that point. And you know, you're right, man, here we are. And I think, like, from my perspective, man, a lot of people need to stop asking when's it going to change? And start thinking, what if it doesn't? And how do I grow no matter what goes on out there? And you know, and that's kind of the approach that we take is like, dude, we're just so niche specific in what we're building.
(10:26):
And we just do that from like a growth trajectory, a training and development. I don't believe in the spray and pray methodology of like going after anything and everything. And now, you know, you guys are different. And we're different in the sense of like, we have actual experience in multiple different modes of transportation that's out there. Not everybody has that right. So that's why I'm always so niche specific with people when you're building, because I'm like repeatable, scalable processes. That's what you need. You need stuff that you can duplicate and replicate and build behind you to where you can make you and make 10 people behind you operate in the same manner that you do. Right?
(11:02):
Because the secret sauce, you know, like, I think everybody always wants to talk to like, okay, your culture, your this year, that, well, that comes from the founders. That comes from the way that you guys operate from day one, $1. And I think like, I love founder led organizations mainly because, you know, I'm a founder led organization and I feel like they move faster and they're more passionate, right? Because you guys and ourselves know what it's like when you have no customers, you have no money coming in, you have everything on the line, right? Like I, I talk about this on the show often. Robin. I don't joke when I say, like, I don't have a 401k anymore. You guys emptied that out to put everything on the line to build my dreams up, right?
(11:43):
So like, that's the level of seriousness that we operate with every time we go out there and when we're cold calling and prospecting and everything. Because we had no guaranteed freight, we had nothing. Like we started from 00, $0 customers. So it's like, that's what I love the most about talking to individuals though, like yourselves in yourself is like you're out there building it from nothing. And raising money is not easy. You know, like there's a fallacy out there. Like, oh, just snap your fingers, you have this napkin idea, boom, there's $5 million, you know, go out and spend it and stuff like that. So how did you guys take that capital? You know, because there's a lot of people out there that want to raise money.
(12:24):
So how did you, after you guys raised, how were you like, we have to invest in this first. Did you guys have like a top five things that you wanted to invest in right away? Was it technology? Was it people? What did that look like?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
So that's a great point to also talk about. And before I answer, like, you know, how we kind of went about capital allocation, I want to say, you know, a lot of people celebrate raising money and raising rounds. I think it's really important, no matter who you're raising money for, whether it's a high net worth individual angel investor, whether it's the largest fund out there or anything in between, that, you know, raising money is not a celebration, it's an obligation. Right? Like when you take that dollar, you have a fiduciary responsibility to be a steward of that capital and do everything in your power to return, you know, maximum premiums to investors and take care of them in any way you possibly can. So like, you know, I think we're not venture back, right? Like we're backed by friends and families.
(13:29):
So that's a little bit of a different dynamic, you know, than the, you know, the typical venture route. But you know, it's just, it's something. When I, when I see that online, I'm like, okay, great. You know, XYZ organization raised XYZ amount of dollars. But like, what's the plan to actually return value to your shareholders? And how are you going to get there? Because that is what it's about the second you take, you know, that outside dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I, I want to just kind of interject here. I think it would be harder to, for me personally to take money from people I know, that friends and that family, because of that emotional, like I would feel, not that I would ever discredit any, you know, type of funds that I would be able to raise from like private equity or venture, but like, if it was me going to somebody that like I grew up with or like was my brother in law or my sister in law, like, dude, I would feel like so much more anxiety. I'm like, I gotta get them a return.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
It is, it is a weight on my shoulders. I've never felt until, you know, these are people I love and care about. Right?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And I, I recognize that the people who invest in Wagon, you know, are like, it's a high risk, high reward investment. Right. So like, I understand that like you're not giving me know, money that they can't afford to lose. Right?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And that's, you know, obviously very clearly outlined in all of our docs, right. That this is what this is. But yeah, it's a crazy way, you know, raising for friends and family. But by the same token, you know, the other side of that is if you're able to deliver for them, the upside is just that much greater.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Because it's people that you love to care about. So, you know, it's my recommendation to people out there, you know, raising money would be, you know, sure, it's great to get your star from, you know, friends and family, etc. But as soon as you can actually go the institutional route, as long as you can get the right partner, I think the right partner is so important that's the way to go. Right. Because you don't want to keep tapping the angel investor.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, yeah, no, I got you, man. So after you go through that round now, like, what does that capital disbursement look like? Is it. Were you guys like, hey, we want to automate as much as we can behind the scenes and focus on technology or are you guys kind of doing a hybrid model of like we want that old school freight mentality, but we want that new school tech backing behind it on like a customer by customer basis.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So we raised that initial round and then we brought in, you know, an additional round of capital price six months or eight months in, which was about four we initially raised. And all that capital has effectively gone to just bringing the best people in the business, enabled by best in class technology practices, and then outlining, you know, the best process that we possibly can, you know, given the tools that are at our disposal. Right. And you know, I always tell people, you know, we're building planes and flying it Right. So like, you know, we just have new problems on a daily basis in addition to the problems that just come with garden variety freight. And so that's really what the money goes towards.
(16:42):
And you know, that's why our first year we did about 3 million in top line, you know, in about six months. And our second year we 6x that and this year we're looking to 3x last year's top line, we've effectively grown almost every month over month since we've been in business. And the way we've been able to do that is, you know, we're not recreating the wheel here, we're just creating a really strong wheel and again, that's enabled by the best people. Right? Because that's what this business is you hire the best people, you take care of them and you let them go out and deliver, you know, and to the best you can. Again, as a leader, you know, you have to enable them and give them room to run within XYZ parameters. So.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
No, I get it, man. Yeah, I think like we're in an interesting, interesting time out there where it's like, you know, they're obviously I'm one of the old school, new school hybrids in the sense of like, if you have the money to invest in technology in the right spots, right? Like, of course, try and streamline as much as that you possibly can. And you know, but it's like if you can't afford it though, you know, you got to be strategic in the sense of like, what are your customers actually asking for? And we do not have any customers to this day that have ever said, what does your tech stack look like? What are you going to be able to do? 99% of them are like, dude, you said you could pick up this load. Why aren't you picking up this load?
(18:14):
Or you know, just pick up the freight and deliver it on time and we're going to be good to go. Right. So I feel like there's kind of a balance out there of do you need it or not? And I feel like if you're bootstrapping or if you have capital out there, like I have yet to see it outside of, you know, I know some of my friends who work with the, you know, the Fortune 1 hundreds and the Fortune 5 hundreds of the world. And yeah, that's different, but that's a small sector of the industry and that's an even smaller opportunity to actually get in the door with some of those style shippers. And I feel like the majority of people and the majority of the opportunities that are out there, you don't need a large tech stack, you need a solid tms.
(18:53):
You know, you need a really solid tms, you need API capabilities, you need EDI capabilities. But like, for the most part, man, I don't know of anything else that is like actually required to move freight out there outside of your tms. And yeah, you could argue load boards and ratings and stuff like that, but it's a very small circle of actual tech that you need to move freight out there right now.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So I completely agree and give a little shout out to our VP of sales, Jeremy Goodman. Jeremy and I worked here at C.H. Robinson and he was there before me and I started in his group. And I remember were talking one day like very early in my career and he said something to me along the lines of the broker you're working with is only. The brokerage you're working with is only as good as the broker you're dealing with. And I think that is so true, right? Like, that's why people are so important, right? Because the way we've been able to grow through a combination of, you know, net new growth of existing is because we have amazing people, you know, that are, you know, both operating and growing accounts and also bringing in new accounts.
(19:59):
And you know, we're building the team, you know, that shippers want to work with. Right? And sure, everybody says that, right. But going out and doing it in reality and execution is totally different than saying you can do it. Right? And so that's why so much of this business is also just getting in the door, getting an opportunity. And to your point, you know, building a niche is a great way to do that because that's the way you're able to actually demonstrate value. And then once you're in and you know, you can show a shift for who you are, you then you're able to kind of diversify in the services that you can offer and grow with them year over year. And like that's how you build a billion dollar organization.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, it's, you know, there's, I think there's a lot of overcomplication that is out there in the market right now. And again, man, there's a lot of companies who have a lot of money to disperse on marketing that are creating and marketing a perceived need in the market that I don't necessarily see out there. I'm not saying that it's non existent across the board or anything like that, but for the most part man, and I think like that's what I love about this industry is like man, you can get in and keep your overhead low depending on the style of business you want to build right at the end of the day and you can build a profitable business, you know, pretty.
(21:12):
I don't want to say easy or fast or anything like that, but you don't need a ton of tech, you don't need a ton of outside stuff to go out and move freight. At the end of the day you need that tribal knowledge. And that's only going to come from experience. That's only going to come from actually going out there and moving freight and making mistakes. And you know, because like what you said there Rob, is very accurate. There is very little any of us can say on the front end to any of our shippers that they haven't heard before a hundred times over. Really fundamentally it's going to boil down to the individual operating that freight and frankly the give a level that individual actually has for their book of business and their reputation out there in the market.
(21:56):
Because I have out like I thought everybody cared man, like I really did. But like, because that's just the way that I am about it and I'm coming to realize man, that that's not a thing at all. And you know, I, I've just found that from my perspective the best thing you can do is actually communicate. And I mean actually communicate, not say you say what's going on, I mean actually do it. And then when you're moving their freight, find those opportunities inside of their operation, your shipper's operation, on what you can actually find efficiencies with and then bring those improvements to them. And I, and I feel like that just comes after you start moving their freight. But for the most part it takes a long time, especially in today's market, to really bust through the door with a lot of these individuals.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I, I agree. And so it's funny, I actually think that something that is not talked about a lot in our business, but is arguably the most important aspect of our business is recruiting. Right? Like how are you going out and finding the best talent for different roles? That's a question shippers never ask, right?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And it's interesting because like that's the most important thing. You know, all shippers are happy when there's someone amazing on their account, but the second you pull the person off their account and swap them out. If that person isn't up to the previous standard of the prior individual.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Individual.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Right. Then there's problems. So, like, if I was a shipper, you know, Talking to a prospective 3 PL, I'd be asking like, you know, how are you recruiting? What's your process look like? How are you vetting people? You know, who's on my account? How long can I expect them to be on my account? You know, if that person becomes really good, are they gonna get promoted and, you know, move off of my account? And, you know, I. That's. Again, I think it's. It's one of the most important parts of the business that just doesn't get enough attention.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
No, I'm. I'm right there with you, man. Cause it is. It's like at the end of the day, you. You need to plug and play. You need to replicate yourself as fast as possible and get them somebody in there. Because your customer should never see any difference. And that's one thing that we're really hammering into our training. And everything that comes along with it is it does not matter if it's me, my business partner, or anybody else dealing with my customer, they will receive the exact same response time, the exact same service, and the exact same communication, no matter what that's going on out there. Because I feel like that's the biggest opportunity is this. When people churn that rep on that account.
(24:18):
And if they don't come in and deliver the exact same level of service that they are used to, that's when my job gets a lot easier from the prospecting front because I'm in your shipper's ears at some point. I don't know who your customers are, but you know what I mean, I'm actively prospecting every single day. I am making cold calls every single day. It's only a matter of time. And then, especially if you're out there listening to this and you move flatbed freight, it's really only a matter of time before I'm in your prospect or your customer's ears. And that's the way that you got to look at it is this. Your customer is my prospect. And it is. And if you're going to let your foot off the gas one second, there's. That's my window, and that's all I'm asking for.
(24:58):
And just like with me, though, with all of my customers, it's the same thing. If I take my foot off the gas one second, somebody else is in their ear right now. This Second, while I'm doing the show, somebody's prospecting my current customers.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
100 totally agree.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That's what I love about this, man. I love it. It, it's. There's just so much opportunity that comes along with it. So, dude, what do you think is the best opportunity over the next, you know, three to five years? Inside of this industry, where do you see things kind of trending? I don't care about how the market performs. I mean, like, from a more of like a fundamentals technology standpoint, do you see anything kind of progressing where it's like there's a real opportunity that comes along with it? Because frankly, when it comes to the market, it's a crapshoot at this point on what it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know, I think there's a lot of opportunities. I think M and A is probably one of the largest ones. There's, it's become so fragmented, both on the asset carrier side and on the broker side. And there's so many synergies, specifically on the broker side that get realized, you know, through acquisitions that I think you can go out and buy, you know, a few brokerages and you basically wipe out their tech stack and, you know, a very large piece of their opex because, you know, through consolidation, you're realizing those synergies. You get significant ebitda, you know, increases and multiple increases by kind of, you know, threading those three PLs together. There's so many three PLs under like 25 million, right, where it's just like, you know, it's a few great customers, a few deep relationships. Also you buying the people, right?
(26:37):
They're getting employment agreements, they're getting locked in for a period of time. And I think that is something that you're just going to see, especially given how bad the market has been over the last few years. I think that's really going to see, you know, over the next two to three years.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I, I agree, man. I think the biggest threat to the industry comes for the brokerage side of the industry. I truly do. I feel like from a consolidation standpoint, and I feel like there's just going to reach a point where some people are just going to throw the white flag and be like, I'm done, man. I can't do this anymore. And you know, like, that's one thing that I would say is like on our roadmap is probably in the M and A space. That's the only way I would ever take on debt. I'M not going to take on debt for anything else. But it would be along those lines because I do feel like there is a lot of opportunity that comes along with it. And there are a lot of businesses that are inside of this space.
(27:31):
Like you said under, you know, that 20 to 25 million that have probably three to four core accounts. Two of those core accounts are like, you know, 80% of their revenue and they, you know, they got a couple of filler accounts in there, but yeah, man, that's out there. And then if you can go in there and you know, and this is where from my perspective, you know, it is that automation piece that comes along with it. It is all the back office stuff. Right? Like I won't, I will never automate a custom carrier experience with my company. Never would never, ever under any circumstances, at least to this day I haven't found a need to ever want to do that because I feel like personally that's what people are going to revert back to is while everybody pushes automate everything.
(28:09):
AI dialers, AI everything. I think like that's going to just build up a lot of resistance right away because it's only a matter of time before these manufacturers have an AI receptionist answering all the phones. And then it's bot talking to bot. And then, and then how are you going to ever break through at that point? You know, I, I agree.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
You know, I think one of the big moats of AI is, you know, the human experience and sales. Right. Like an AI robot is not going to be able to sell and deliver, you know, value and opportunities the same way a human can. Or at least not for the next five to 10 years, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, but you know, I do.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Think that, you know, AI, that's another huge disruptor that's coming for our industry. I mean it's gonna allow so much amazing automation on the back end of things. I think it's really going to help a lot of three PLs, you know, lower their OPEX. It's going to be interesting to see how that industry becomes very commoditized because it's happening at a fast rate. So.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you, man. And I feel like that's one thing where, you know, from an automation standpoint like that that's where we're gonna go next is it's like we already have, like we're very fortunate to have a phenomenal tech stack. You know, like we're an agent with spi and you know, we. I'm very fortunate to use a lot of the logos that sponsor this show day, you know, daily inside of my business. Right. Like, I mean, I, I use Revenova literally 100 times a day. Right. But I feel like from there it's the building, the operational efficiencies through automation to where, like when we do go out there and hire people, I'm not hiring 15 to hope 5 work out.
(29:46):
I'm just going to hire the right 5 and arm them with the right tech stack to where they can now 10x their opportunities. And that's just the approach that we're going to be taking with it because I just don't feel the need to automate everything. But like, in my opinion, 90% of my day should be automated. It can be automated and that's what we're going to do. So we're hiring the right people and I truly think, like, we're going to be able to hit some really gaudy numbers with a lean headcount because as I always say, and I'll say it again, man, we will never have cap commission.
(30:17):
So my people are going to make as much money as they as their heart desires, and I'm never going to stop that because as somebody who is a sales rep at heart, the most demotivating thing you can do is be like, hey man, we're going to raise your goals that, man, like let them hunt your commissions. So, dude, exactly. I'm gonna let my hunters hunt, man, and they're gonna go out there and kill. Completely agree, dude. I love it, man. Rob, I appreciate your time, man. I'm really excited to see how you guys are going to go and continue to do some good things out there in the market, man. How does anybody reach out to you guys? Are you guys hiring? How do people reach out and find more? Find out more.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
We're definitely hiring customer sales. So if you're interested, shoot your resume and craziest freight story over to Infowagon IO.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Perfect. Rob, I appreciate it, man. That's going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen. As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, which you should be, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Came back with a bank. If they hate, then let them hate them. Make a bigger ball.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Hey.
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